Latest / Beside Every Calling / Beside Every Calling | Episode 25: Would We Say YES Again?

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Beside Every Calling | Episode 25: Would We Say YES Again? · Beside Every Calling

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Beside Every Calling, where a life you love is born beside the call and not lost within it.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: If your date night has occasionally included a hospital stop or your kids played Let's Baptize in the pool instead of Marco Polo, you understand this rhythm.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Across every season, from little ones to leadership transitions to emptiness, we live beside the call while creating lives we love along the way.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: So please get comfortable and let's dive into today's episode.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to this episode of Beside Every Calling, which this is the final episode in season two.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm Debbie Daniels.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm Jill Barber.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: And today we want to talk about would we do it all again if we started the ministry over?
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: So what are you thinking, Jill?
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: Would we choose ministry again?
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, this far into it.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's a it's a great question to think about.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but okay, let's just let's go with the first question.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Debbie, let me ask you if you could sit across your younger self, uh, your ministry wife self, what would you tell her?
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: I I love starting here because Scott and I, as we travel, and now we've been doing this for into our fourth year, we both say we really would love to go back and pastor again because we'd be so much better.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, just the stuff we've learned.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I think my younger self, I would tell her, don't hurry.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, don't hurry through the seasons.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: Enjoy this event at church, enjoy this season with your kids.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: Stop and enjoy it and don't let yourself, it's just I'm sure it's human nature.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: You go on to the next one.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like the second you're done with Christmas, you give yourself a tiny break in ministry, and then you're automatically into Easter.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what are we gonna do for it?
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I would really encourage myself to sit more and enjoy what we have.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I would also tell her it's okay to spend time getting to know people's stories.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, don't have to meet all 200 people and work on one at a time and enjoy their stories.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that that was excellent.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: I would probably tell myself the same thing as well.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: But I think I think I might tell myself uh that pressure that you're putting on yourself, or maybe you just feel, you know, you you just kind of walk into the room or to the sanctuary and to the group of people or whatever, because you're there and you just kind of feel the pressure of the event or of the season or even of the moment or the situation, whatever, whatever that is, to try to just get out from under that a little bit, not not run out of the church or anything like that, but just say, look, that pressure is for the Lord to carry.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: He just needs you there to um to love the people, just like you said.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's the ministry is all about the people, it's not about the performance, it's not about the even the actual sermon, it's not about it's just to be with do life with the people.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's what I think I would tell my younger self, because I I didn't have anybody telling me anything before.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: So uh, you know, and I was just all in, all about it and living under just this great pressure and doing all that stuff, like you said.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, and I think it also goes back to Dallas Willard, where he says, if you only do one thing spiritually, relentlessly take hurry out of your life.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and I think that's the piece.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: So you just sit and enjoy what the spirit's doing, or maybe it's a tough season, and you still there's something happening in there that you can get something out of it.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: So yes, absolutely.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: Question two.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, all right.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: What is something ministry has given you that you never expected?
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: I love this question.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I would say I never expected to have great friends, uh, deep friends, close friends, people that knew my life.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I I walked into it not even thinking about that.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: But now where I am, I have a trail of wonderful, just amazing friends, just because we are there living with the call with our spouse, you know, uh it just because of that.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I I'm thankful for that, for the friendship that are literally around the world uh at this point.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: But just it's just amazing.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: I did not expect that.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think I didn't expect it because growing up and I was all I was okay to be by myself.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: I did have friends, you know, people that I would socialize with and everything, but not not the ones that really understood my life.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I would say I didn't expect that.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that's interesting.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna share something similar.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I do think ministry, like people can see our lives, but you really don't understand it unless you're in ministry.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's exactly that's right.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like I understand my daughter's a nurse and what she does, but I really and she always says, Mom, you don't.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, you're right, I don't really understand what it's like to deliver a baby, right?
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think that for me it is similar.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I can't believe we know people all around the world and I love them.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I also know if I sent texts, I think of my friend Pauline Charcucian that will pray for me in Armenian, but uh, there's just a list of them all over my friend Susie, my friend, like Kelly, Amy, like there's just so many.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I think they I could send a text and I know they will drop everything and pray for me, and I would do it for them.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we like you said in ministry, we aren't all together very often, but when you do run into them, it's like something in your soul is like, ah, so not only the ministry leaders, but the people that become your friends, and they really are your lifelong friends thanks to social media, internet.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: So that's something good out of it.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's right.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: And keep us connected.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, and I find it absolutely delightful.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: The people, yeah.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm with you 100%.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, let's go on to the next one.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um let's see.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_02: What did you worry about in your younger ministry years that you now realize wasn't really that important anyway?
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's a huge question.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think I worried too much about what people might think of us, and I shouldn't have.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, now I'm like, oh, that's so silly.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like Caleb preached this morning at our church.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's so great to be home and have your son be your pastor.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: I just sat there with my soul so full, Jill.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't take the credit for this incredible young man.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: There are literally hundreds of people in three churches that have prayed for him and people around the globe.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: But as he was sharing and he talked about uh illustration when he was little and he came out, he was his eighth grade, he said, and he just thought, God doesn't say I have to wear a collared shirt.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: I he doesn't care how I show up, I'm gonna show up.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: And he said he came out in a t-shirt and shorts.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Caleb, go put on a collared shirt.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, Mom, Jesus doesn't care.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: And you said, No, he doesn't, but I do.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think I do still think you show up looking nice to church in the sense not for other people, but because it's a set-aside space.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I told him, I really wanted you to understand that it's a set-aside space, but at that season, way back then, I may have cared that my children looked like we got together and came to church.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I might have cared a little bit too much about how my kids looked because I people did judge them and said so.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um Sophie's had the most hurtful things said to her about a pair of jeans with holes in it, and you still think that's what that lady was all worked up about.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but again, find your people, find your people.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: But I do think I wouldn't worry about how we showed up to what we looked like.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: I would make sure our spirits were right and everyone felt loved in the van going to church versus more what we had on.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, I I'm in the same boat with you on that answer.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: I I probably uh well let me just back up just a second.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: In me growing up, and I know I know you came to the church later in life, but me growing up in my era, it was you you had your church clothes, you know, you had there was, and I I think it was just real, I think the foundation of that is we come to church not just to dress up, but it was out of respect for the God of the universe that we're gonna hear about and it's gonna transform our lives.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: I I really think and those words weren't used back then, but that's I I believe that's really why it is, and I still feel that I I think because I grew up in that a little bit, but then I took it on to my son too, you know, the same thing, all that.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: And then one time uh he did come down in like, you know, just clothes I would not have sent him to church in.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: And there was there was another little issue, I think, at the time, it was teenage years.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: We were kind of talking through with him, and I just decided I'd rather him be at church than not be at church, you know, I, you know, kind of thing.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I I laid that aside and um fought other issues that we thought were important, you know, for him.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: But I would say other things that I thought were probably too important were not only what people thought of us in on our dress and all that kind of stuff, but I think one thing I did unintentionally and I I carried everybody's burdens.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: I if I if I found out something from somebody, I I put them on me.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: I felt like I was responsible since I now know, you know, of my sister's issue or my brother's struggle or you know, just whatever that was.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I did not know that I didn't have to carry that as, and I I think Sam, I think Sam probably went through the same kind of learning curve too on this, too.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: But I I would I would say, listen, if you're if you're feeling weighted down by some of the people you're shepherding because of things that they're going through, because of your prayer list, that they're on your prayer list, pray for them, love them, and then let them be out here.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: You the the the Lord has more power, that it's the Lord's problem, it's the Lord's issue, it's not your issue to carry.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: So be lighthearted, lay those down.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: You can love them and pray for them for sure.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: But I I I think that was way too more important, or maybe not important, but just I just didn't know.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I didn't know.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know how to not do that.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: I because I was just there.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: I was just never there's no teaching in this, you know.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: That's why we're doing this.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's why we're doing this.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: But I thought I did the same thing, Jill.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think maybe it was we were at Pasadena, and I'll never forget it was the third death, like within we and so you're carrying that grief, and it's such a holy space to walk with people, right?
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: This precious freshman and high school girl ended up dying.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: Her name was Jessie, and we were devastated and walking with the family.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: It was a privilege to be with them in this time, but we immediately had to go help another family that the dad was dying of a brain tumor, and so we you can't carry all of it, and so you have to figure out how do you let go because then the other two families they were moving on their grieving process, and Scott and I were like, We're dying here, and realized, oh, God never intended us to carry all of this, that's theirs, and we're gonna shepherd you through it, and it was it was a lot at that season, and that's like kind of where I learned it is a sacred space, but our space isn't like the family member carrying it, if that makes any sense.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's right.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, that's right.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, um, what do you appreciate?
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: Appreciate.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I love appreciating.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, about ministry now that you couldn't appreciate when you were younger after all these years.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot I appreciate now.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate for sure the rhythm of the church.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it took me to understand like we I grew up in California, we pastored there a long time.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't live with four seasons.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: We now live in Idaho, where we have four distinct seasons.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like pretty soon, you know, when it gets below 50, we don't ever see 50 again until March.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna get to freezing and then below.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: And the rhythm of the church really follows those seasons.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't get that, and I love it now that I'm in it.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like even the dark night, the winter, winter, it's you know, there's nothing happening.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I love it because it's kind of your time to prepare your soul to get ready for what's happening and trust that there's something beautiful, even in an awful dark winter season of life, uh, that something is beautiful is going to bloom later from it.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: But you when you're in it, you don't believe it.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: And trust me, in the end of January in Idaho, you're like, this place is just dead, dead, nothing beautiful.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: But sure enough, in March, tulips and things start blooming again.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, so I do think the the church rhythm, I didn't appreciate or even catch on to that.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I wish I would have lived that earlier in our pastoring life and modeled that in the classes I taught on Wednesday nights, even.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, especially for those people living west coast, east coast where you don't really have distinct seasons and it's always summer, always happy.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: You could stay busy all the time because there spiritually does need to be a season that you go within and don't do a lot.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like pastoring, even in Idaho, they don't expect you to show up in the dead of winter.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: There's not a lot of potlucks, there's not a lot of social activities, everyone goes home and hunkers in.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it really is kind of a refueling time.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: Huh.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's a that's really good.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: I I'm trying to come up with an answer myself.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's hard.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's a hard one.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: So, listener, what do you think?
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: Is there a yeah, right?
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: Let us know what you think.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um the things that are coming to my head are kind of two different things.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: What's uh I appreciate now kind of looking back, uh ministry moves fast.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, when you're in the season and when you're when you're doing the seven-day weekly grind is what we called it, you know, Sunday to Sunday.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: Sun Sunday comes every week.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I think I you know, it just it's some weeks are long for because you're struggling with different things or you're dealing with grumpy people or whatever or issues.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: And some people sometimes are fast because there's just lots of blessings and the momentum's going great.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: But then, you know, then we're now 36 years out, you know, from all of that.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: I would say ministry moves fast is I just comes to my mind, but I I think also one thing I appreciate is not only the rhythm of the church, but the structure of the church.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, the nothing's perfect by any means, but our church, our denominational church, church of Nazarene, if you're not you're listening and you're not from that church, that's okay.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: Our our structure is uh is a is a good good structure.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: Now there obviously might need to be tweaks or things that the Lord leads to change and all that kind of stuff, whatever that looks like.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm thankful for that, I think looking back and and being a part of the structure at different levels, different ways, you know, whatever.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: And um it's it's a good accountability system for the Church of the Nazarene, and uh it's it's good.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh there's the Lord works through the structure for sure.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think I appreciate that.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: I love the part of our denomination, which all the Wesley and Holiness people have the same similar tweak in their theology, but I love that we don't think you can live this out on your own.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can't grant bear it without the spirit, that's what makes all the change possible.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, 1000%, it's totally spirit-living life.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I find people so frustrated with the church, and I always say, well, get with the spirit, like he will show you the right next step.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I but it's slow work, it's hard work, right?
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's the problem.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I think as we continue on in this new season of busy hurry, insta pot, insta coffee, insta everything.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I always joke that I'm insta mad if Starbucks doesn't have my latte in two minutes, but the spirit isn't insta, he's slow and he whispers and one episode you watch your hair grow because it's so slow.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I do love our theology too.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, just thinking about archaeology a little bit, it reminds me when Sam was going to school uh one of the times, and um he added professor, he said came come into the class.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: First words out of his mouth was, I don't care what denomination you're from, I don't care how long you've been in church or not in church, I'm going to demolish, tear down your whole uh thinking, your whole way of thinking about your theology, and it's your job to put it back together.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so he came home and told me that.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: And um it was in grad school, I'm sure.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: It was in it was in grad school, totally grad school for sure.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: And uh he told me that, and honestly, it rattled him and it kind of rattled me.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what is this experience gonna do to my husband?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: What's it gonna do to him?
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know, all the kind of stuff.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: But it really was so at the end of that course, he did dismantle it for sure, you know.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: But but it got and Sam would come home and we would, I didn't do his homework, but he would talk to me, you know, through it or whatever.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: And the kind unexpectedly, a thing happened that um Sam and I were both born into the Nazarene church.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: We were like fourth generation Nazaren, you know, whatever.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: But so we were born Nazarene, but because of that one class and that experience, we literally sat down and went through the theology of some sister denominations of what we believe and all that kind of stuff.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: And we came back and chose the Nazarene church.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, so we are a Nazarene by choice now, uh because of the the theology and and because of that experience, and we both kind of he went through it obviously deeper than me, but we went through it together as a couple as we as he was going through that class, and it was quite an experience, but it was good.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: It was good, it is so good, and it I think it's great for the listeners that are joining us.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: We have a lot that are not a part of our denomination, and again, I hope we're helpful.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I love when my husband taught me some church history not growing up in the church, and even realizing like Baptists that they focus on baptism, right?
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's the main thing for them, or Methodists, it's the methods, like it all makes sense, and you're like, Oh, now I get it.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: And even all the non-denominationals, they still have some piece of something in there that sets them apart, and we are a part, all a part of the big C church, like right?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: We all count our big rocks, are the same.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I love that.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: All right, I'm moving us to the next question.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: If you go back and do one thing differently, is there something that you would do differently?
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think I would probably uh if I knew what I knew know now, um I would slow down a little bit and not, you know, so here's here's our story.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: What I what I'm thinking about is we were in a very small church, kind of a couple medium-sized churches, a larger church, and a pretty large church all along the way.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I think there's different things I did at different places because of the need or whatever the Lord is leading me to, but especially at the smaller church, I just want to say I I know I worked, I worked like a crazy woman uh there because we were all in and it needed to be done.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: And there were other people to help, but there weren't many, very many of us, you know, to do things.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I would I would play the piano, I would, you know, teach the preschool, I would do the Bible school, lead the Bible school, I would, you know, drive the van when needed to pick up the kids because that was the era what that was happening in.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um I would lead the Christmas play, you know, all with the little kids.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: Everything you can imagine, I was trying, I kind of had my fingers in because it needed to be.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: Looking back, I think the church would, it's still going, the church is still going, but I think the church would have been fine if I didn't do all of that.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I I could have probably enjoyed it all a little bit more if I wasn't in all of that.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe I knew I could do it, you know, because I did.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: I knew I knew I could do it, but I didn't know first of all that I had permission to say no, you know, or and I didn't know that I didn't have to do all that, is probably probably what I would do, what I would say to myself looking back.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: What about you?
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: Mine, I think, has to do with a family.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think I did a lot of things right that I the because the spirit led me.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: I had no one except the Holy Spirit.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then as I've said before, I would find someone who had a family that I thought I like the way they live out their Christianity, and I would meet with them and then we would copy it.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: I would try to do those things.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: But early on, I think Sophie was a girl, so she the whole time she was little, I would show her how to do devotions, we'd pray together, we'd do everything.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then the boys, I think it's about junior high end of elementary, they really start to want to hang out with their dad more, which as a mom it hurts your heart, but you're it's the right thing to do.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I was able to find like Noah was easy because he loved worship from the time he was little, and so he led like even had a band at school and things, and I would show up at that.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: Caleb liked drama and he also loved production, and I encouraged that because I had a television background, but Jonah, I couldn't figure it out, and we would have big events at our house.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: We always had things outside.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: I never brought people in, very rarely, but outside, especially in California.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I would tell him, Jonah, you have to act, just go out there for 30 minutes, be an actor, and just act like you're happy to see people.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but he got overwhelmed by large groups, and I did let him sneak away.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel like if I could go back in time and I look now, my two oldest are in ministry, and our daughter wanted to be a nurse from the time she was four.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: She wanted to take care of people.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: I never realized we should have brought in business people and shared meals with them and things.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: So Joan.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Jonah could be exposed to something totally different.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I wasn't sure what his thing was, so I don't beat myself up over it, but I really wish I would have figured out early on how to expose him to those kind of people early on in life because Caleb and Noah and Sophie, we definitely were able to do that.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: And Jonah is I you know, and he's still he's a video game tester, and I never that just was coming out, but so I do beat myself up a little bit that I didn't try to figure out how to find his space at church a little better for him.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's tough though.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: That don't beat yourself up over that.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's I wouldn't say I lose sleep over it, but if I could go back in time and know what I know now at 60, I would say, oh, that would have been brilliant because there were a lot of great businessmen in church that I could have exposed him to where he could have asked those questions.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I just didn't know.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: Well, um, talking about would we choose ministry again?
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: I guess maybe we should wrap this up a little bit.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I I definitely would answer yes.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's yeah, the strangest way to live, truly.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's so countercultural, yeah.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's so beautiful.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: The blessings that are hidden along the way, I I wouldn't, I can't even imagine doing life different.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: No, I can't either.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um so what makes you still grateful though?
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: Let's make this our last our last question.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: Our last question.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: What makes you grateful for all these years of ministry and still choosing it?
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: The people.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: One, I mean, uh the spirit for sure, but I just think now globally, like the second we're in a space, you're like, oh, these are our people.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you get to know them.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I've prayed with people now all over the world, and that is the same.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like that spirit is the same.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: We may have lines around countries and even states or wherever, but there's no line in God's kingdom.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: There's absolutely kingdom people are global, and I the people I'm so grateful for so many people and people that do things that no one notices, but they keep doing it.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I've met people who their whole ministry is just praying and I'm like, thank you so much.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: We will never know till the other side in heaven how you help shape all of this.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I agree a hundred percent that um the people are the it's the people.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I would also say I I'm just grateful that the Lord allows me to be a part of this, yeah, because I am the spouse or whatever.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it just totally there, there's a there's a gratefulness that of course there's hard times, of course there's times you just want to go dig a ditch, you know, or whatever.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: But you get a little rest, you you pray about it, you lay it down, and the Lord says, No, I got you, let's keep going, you know, kind of thing.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: And just the awesomeness, you know, the peep, the people that you mentioned allow us to be in all of their their celebrations, their um, you know, their heartache, their growing spurts, their their questions and all of that.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: And what an honor for that for to be with the people.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I'm just grateful that the Lord still allows me to have a a smidgen of a of a part in his in his kingdom and in his work.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: And those listening, I just want to give you a little bit of grace or freedom, maybe today, to realize the kingdom of God is still going to happen if you do nothing else to move it forward.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: If Jill and I never do another thing, right?
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: The kingdom of God, it's we get to choose to be a part or not be a part, and it's still gonna happen, and he's gonna love us no matter what.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, listeners, we thank you, Jill and I both.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that somehow in a tiny way, we're a part of your life and hopefully making a little difference, helping you feel seen and valued, and we really do understand the life beside the call.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: And as we close out season two, which Jill, I can't believe we're now done with season two.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna take a little break as we go through the holidays.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: And by the time you're watching this, Jill and I will both be traveling.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but so pray for us if you would.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: But we're also going to have a Christmas episode that will come out the Thursday after Thanksgiving, the first Thursday in December.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: So look for that.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's our gift to you.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I just want to say thank you for listening.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: And now's a great time in that little break.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: There's 24 episodes now that you could go back and catch up, start at one or work your way, however.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: And if you would share this with someone that you think maybe they could get something out of this, uh, we would sure appreciate building this community.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: Any last thoughts, Jill?
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: No, you're doing better than you know.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: If you're out there and you're nobody has told you today, hang in there.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: You've got this.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: You do got this, and find your people.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, friends, thank you for listening to this episode of Beside Every Calling.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: Jill and I are privileged and thankful that you even take time to add us to your tool belt in ministry.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for listening, and we will look forward to joining you for the Christmas episode.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: And if you missed that one, season three will be coming out in January.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: Have a good day.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: If this conversation felt a little too familiar, like, were they sitting in my living room this week familiar?
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's your sign.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Text this episode to one ministry spouse who might need it today.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: And if this space feels like oxygen in your season, would you please take 30 seconds and leave us a review?
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: It helps more spouses find this beautiful, sometimes overlooked, but wildly important community.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see you next time on Beside Every Calling.