Latest / The Growth Project / Episode 393: Great Leaders Keep Growing with Emily Navarro and Coach Michelle Young

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Episode 393: Great Leaders Keep Growing with Emily Navarro and Coach Michelle Young · The Growth Project

• 0:00
  we talk about it a lot, you know, like winning's fun.
• 0:03
  You have to do hard things to win. Yeah. And be successful. So it doesn't mean we're making it any easier for them. I think it's more challenging because we're asking them to do a lot of things. Well, it's not like, okay, you get to blow off your academics because we're just here to win championships. Like, no, you have to do this and you have to do that and you have to do this, and that's just what it's going to take.
• 0:23
  Oh, and then in the meantime, I'd like you to have fun and figure out who you are as a human,
• 0:31
  Welcome back to another episode of the Growth Project podcast, brought to you by Atlas. A podcast where we like to bring sports psychology, performance psychology and organizational psychology topics to the forefront and help our listeners be better and pursue better.
• 0:49
  Today, I am joined by a couple guests,
• 0:52
  that I'm really excited to have on the podcast, Emily Navarro, who has been our summer intern. Yes, the AMP team,
• 1:00
  she is also a rising senior at Furman University and plays for the volleyball team there. Yes. And then we also have her coach, Michelle Young, joining us today.
• 1:11
  So should be a really interesting conversation. But Emily, please introduce yourself to our listeners. Maybe tell a little bit about what your experience has been like this summer. Yeah. Hi, guys. My name is Emily, as you mentioned. I'm a rising senior at Furman University. I play volleyball, I'm their setter, and I'm also majoring in psychology. I plan to go to grad school for IO psychology, so I've just kind of been here at AMP.
• 1:39
  I was just kind of getting experience with IO psychology, sports psychology. So it's been really cool being here. Yeah, yeah. Having you. Yeah. And then Michelle, welcome.
• 1:48
  We just met a few months ago.
• 1:50
  Great introduction via Jeff Walker, who's here at the firm.
• 1:54
  Tell us a little bit about about you and,
• 1:56
  what you're looking forward to about being here today for the podcast.
• 1:59
  Yeah. Thanks for having me. Michelle Young, head coach at Furman. I have been there. This will be my 27th season. You know, it was my first head job and just kind of ended up staying there over the years. It's been great. I'm married to, my husband Will young is the a high school football coach here.
• 2:18
  Locally, we have three children to graduated from college and one will be a senior. So we're almost, almost empty nesters there as well. But, yeah, I am lucky enough to be Emily's coach, and, I'm excited to hear what she has to say or grow me with. Or should be. It should be a good time. Yeah.
• 2:38
  I think this is a really cool dynamic to have where it's coach and athlete here, and we'll get kind of both perspectives and, and see where the alignment is and maybe where there isn't a lot. Yeah, definitely. The majority is alive. Yeah. Yeah. You guys are a pretty high performing team. So I think that we'll we'll have some great conversations here.
• 2:58
  But I really want to start out, Michelle and get to know you and your background a bit. What was your upbringing like and how did sports really fit into that? Were you always, you know, dead set on volleyball? What's that look like? I'm from Minnesota originally. I grew up in a very small town called Chatfield, Minnesota, which is in the down in the corner.
• 3:21
  It's a rural community. My whole family still lives there. So I get back quite a bit. I, we grew up on a farm, a small family farm. And, Yeah, sports were just always in my life. Being active was always in my life. My mom was a fifth grade teacher. And then my dad worked on the farm, and, and then he had some, you know, he drove truck for a while.
• 3:46
  He had some other jobs as well. And. But my mom was kind of the constant with her teaching job, and she also coach. So I grew up, she coached volleyball coach track. So I grew up just kind of, you know, a feral kid running around the track and running around outside and, being in the gym sometimes.
• 4:07
  But I grew up doing I wanted to do everything, like, everything. We every place we visited, everything we tried, I was like, I, I want to do this. I want to do that. I always, you know, wanted to do everything. And so I think I got a lot of, you know, different experiences. I'm obviously a little older than Emily.
• 4:27
  So my growing up, it just it was completely different as far as even, like, yes, I played club volleyball and travel volleyball, but it was very much different than what we're doing today. Obviously, I was able to play three different sports all through my high school career. I also did a little high school rodeo on the side I was in for age.
• 4:48
  I was show and know that showing livestock, I mean, you know, just my, I don't, you know, growing up, I got to do all kinds of different things. And so that was always, I really appreciate that now. And so I think that that is, something that maybe I didn't appreciate at the time. I just got to do it.
• 5:09
  I loved it, and it was great. I don't think volleyball was. I was never planning to probably play volleyball or coach just volleyball growing up. I really liked, basketball was kind of my first love. Volleyball, I found very frustrating at first because, no, we couldn't do anything. Like, I would just stand back and serve 15 points or whatever it was at the time, you know, that we'd serve, you know, it just wasn't.
• 5:38
  I didn't feel like you could get to as high of a level with it. And then as I got older, I realized, wow, this game gets faster. It's really fun. This is probably where I could go to the highest level,
• 5:51
  I loved track and field as well. That was just a nice break from I went from teams, sports teams for and then finally getting to an individual sport was a nice break.
• 6:00
  So, all my, siblings were in sports. We were very competitive. We raced up, you know, we were racing all the time. We were playing basketball and driving all the time. So, yes, I think it was constant in my childhood, and I always wanted to had that dream of getting a scholarship, and that was how I was going to get to go to college, and that was I wanted to do that.
• 6:22
  And so volleyball provided me with that opportunity. And yeah, it was it was great. It was miserable at first. And then it was great. Miserable at first. Yeah. And then it was great. And so, you know, I've just have been very lucky to have one of those great childhoods. Yeah. And I'm very close with my, my family still.
• 6:48
  And so it's, it's been I really appreciate what I got to do growing up. Yeah. It sounds like you not only had so many experiences, but then the support system there. It sounds like you and your siblings were pretty competitive, at least when you were younger. So here is my question. Who who ended up being the best athlete in the family?
• 7:05
  I mean, I, yeah, obviously it worked really well because we kind of all had our own thing. Yeah. You know, and everybody kind of jokes about, you know, who had the best. Whatever. And is that the other. And so we still have a pretty healthy relationship with, with it. And all of our kids are you know, involved in all kinds of different stuff.
• 7:30
  Yeah. So that's what's been kind of great is it's not just like this one path where we're all this sport. Yeah, we're kind of all over the place. And now nieces and nephews are like, I don't know if any of them do the same sport. So we're everywhere from snowmobile racing to girls wrestling to swimming to, you know, like we've got everything covered, I think.
• 7:51
  And so it's been a lot of fun getting to support them as they, grow up and stuff. So. Yeah. So lots of fun. It's very cool. Like you said, I can tell not only do you like a fast pace. Yeah, but you also like variety. And then kind of sounds like it's showing up for you, which is great.
• 8:06
  Now, you did eventually decide, like you said, to take volleyball quite seriously. You ended up going and playing in college and, that was kind of your, your ticket for college. So talk to us. Your collegiate career.
• 8:20
  was quite impressive.
• 8:21
  Emily and I were talking about this this morning beforehand that you hold some of the highest single season and career assist marks at Clemson.
• 8:30
  There's not still, you have the highest, but one of the only. Yes, she did. I was just like, it's not the highest anymore. But yes, for a while. Yeah, it was for a while. Okay. Well that's good. Yeah. Yeah I left my at the time, you know, there just wasn't a lot of kids leaving our community to go off and, you know, play a sport, and that kind of thing.
• 8:55
  So it was a really cool opportunity for me, to go and do that. And it was kind of unique at the time. And so I was very homesick. I mean, my freshman year, I think, you know, everyone goes through those adjustments of you go from being like kind of the start, you know, if you're going off to play in college, you were probably, you know, one of the better players or very successful.
• 9:18
  That's why you got there. And so having to make that adjustment, was a little challenging for me. I'm sure I was a big Ole baby, because I thought I knew what I was doing. And then I found out quickly that I did not, and so my freshman year was very challenging, that a lot of just calling my parents and I'm coming home.
• 9:42
  And luckily, my parents were like, no, you're not. What are you going to do? Yeah, you know what I mean? It wasn't a, I had a ton of support, but it was not like they did not micromanage us. They really barely, you know, we were doing probably a lot of the time, which was fine. But I'm really glad that my mom was like, no, you're not.
• 10:04
  This is your opportunity. You're going to work harder. You're going to do what you coach that your coach says, and you're going to figure it out. And then I was like, no, I'm not, you know, so that whole first semester was really a very miserable time. And it was not because my coaches were miserable. My teammates were miserable.
• 10:22
  I that's what I was deciding to do with it. I was deciding to be a big baby about it. Then I kind of turned a corner. Started to get, you know, settled in a little bit more and went home, realized, okay, everybody's fine here. It's going to be okay. And then I really kind of turned a corner, and started to just figure things out and started to have some more success and have a better attitude about things as far as and then realize, like, my family's still there, everything to me.
• 10:49
  Okay. So it was a pretty big swing for me. Emily, how is that hitting home for you? I know you and I have talked a little bit about your experience. Yeah. What of being a, collegiate athlete, but also being far from home? Yeah. Kind of hearing your coach talk about that. What? What is that like for you?
• 11:07
  What's it breaking up? Well, I'm like, shocked because, like, that's exactly like what happened to me. Like, I begged my mom, I yeah, I was like, mom, like, I really want to come home because, like, coming in here, like, I'm not used to just being in South Carolina either. Just leaving home. And I didn't realize what I was getting myself into.
• 11:26
  I just knew I wanted to play volleyball and play good volleyball. And like, Furman gave me that opportunity. But then coming in, I was like, man, I miss my family. I became really homesick. So I also had a similar experience where freshman year was like really hard for me, just like kind of getting settled in and just like adjusted to like also just being a student athlete, like a D1 soon athlete, having to wake up early and having to just manage like school and athletics, it was like really hard for me at first, but definitely like moving forward, like coming into sophomore year and then now junior and then now I'm going to become
• 11:58
  a rising senior. I've definitely become way more settled in like acclimated into like this whole environment. So freshman year is definitely the same experience that I had as well. Yeah. And it's hard to get yourself out of it. Yeah, yeah.
• 12:11
  you know, everything's gonna be fine, but you're just so it is interesting to be when you're that sad and you feel like you just cannot get over the hump, and then you kind of magically do.
• 12:22
  Yeah. With time and, you know, figuring some things out a little bit. But, yeah. And I, I can attest I was a lot like Emily where, you know, you're getting your opportunities and not to diminish your volleyball career because I've had a great one. Most of you, you know, you heard a lot. You're really athletic. Your first year, it wasn't like, oh, you are a technically super sound dialed in, you know?
• 12:45
  So it was a little bit similar. Maybe that's why I really like Emily in the recruiting process. You know, I was just they were telling me things where I was like, first time I'd heard that, you know, and because again, coming from a just we weren't in like, you know, Chicago or whatever, that happens all the time, place.
• 13:02
  So we're just kind of winging it, you know? And I think I could relate a lot to what I'm telling her, like, can we need you to face this way and do these things every time? It's like, why what I'm doing is working. Yeah, you know what I mean? And so, I can relate a lot to that.
• 13:18
  And it is just when you're, you just feel like you can't be successful anywhere, and you're sad and you're, you know, the best. I think my, my favorite place, which is usually the least favorite place for people, is the weight room. It's like, can we just go lift heavy things? Because I can do that, you know? Yeah. And so I was so there was so much, that was like the one place I could find some success.
• 13:38
  Right. And not be quite so, you know, and yours would probably be like, oh, we're just gonna run and move and, yeah. Anything. Yeah, anything with running, like I'm there. Any speed? Yes. Yes. Well, it is interesting because it is like that, that technical aspect of when you go and play at the next level. Yeah. Like refining those things that maybe you thought you had down.
• 14:00
  Yeah. And that becomes a challenge and requires we talked about it all the time at a certain level of a growth mindset of, I maybe I'm not as good as I thought I was, and and I don't want that to hold me back. I want it to be my motivation to propel me forward. But when I was working in collegiate athletics and the teams that I worked with, I worked with a tennis team for quite a while, and a lot of those athletes came from overseas and freshman.
• 14:28
  I cannot tell you how the majority of the work I did was not about improving their mental game on the court. It was about adjustment, adjustment and like that transition to college life to being away from home to having to take ownership completely of waking up, holding yourself accountable to workouts, eating right like there is so much that happens in that first year that can really make or break an athlete.
• 14:56
  So it's cool to hear that you guys both had that and then obviously overcame it.
• 15:00
  So Michelle, thinking back on your time at Clemson, what's a moment or a game, or something that really shaped who you are today?
• 15:10
  Gosh, I know it was a long time ago. I mean, I, I don't know, I think it was just turning the corner finally.
• 15:16
  Yeah. Just not being quite so, consumed with missing people or being in, you know, like, because, again, at least you got to come to Greenville, like Clemson. It was like, I don't even understand what's coming. I don't understand why I was saying, you know, I mean, in the beginning and it was just such a culture shock.
• 15:36
  So I feel like Greenville at a few more transplants. I know for sure, but, I, I just feel like there was, like, once I got that, I'm sure like, we had a senior in front of us, in front of me who was great, and she ended up graduating. So maybe it was just even getting an opportunity where, okay, now I do get a little bit more time just by default because, she's graduating.
• 16:01
  And luckily she stayed to be a coach, and she was, you know, really got me through a lot of things, because we had that relationship, and was helpful. But I do think, you know, there's probably an opportunity opened up, that it was kind of like I just had survived and that opportunity presented itself, but then I had to do something with it.
• 16:19
  So I'm sure, you know, I think playing time solves a lot for, for young athletes, obviously, just like winning does. But I think I had hung in there long enough to just get it, just to get around the corner of all of it. And then just branching out and meeting some people and realizing it's going to be okay.
• 16:38
  I don't know if it was necessarily a game. Yeah. I mean, there were a lot, but I probably can't remember them correctly. You know, probably, you know, reminiscing, you know, what is it? The older you are, the better you were. So,
• 16:51
  I think it was just a general shift. Yeah. And I just started to figure some things out and get a little more comfortable.
• 16:57
  And, I don't know, it just. I just kind of stuck to it, I guess, a little bit. I didn't need to before, like you. You called your parents? Yeah. And I do think that is a big turning point, and I don't want to do that. My mom said that's probably one of the. Every time I called, she's like, oh God, here we go.
• 17:13
  But she stuck to her guns. And I think it is something like, you know, there's a whole back against your wall kind of deal too. Like, that was my opportunity and I did not want to blow it. And my mom didn't want me to blow it. And I think they were just had enough tough love again. So in somehow it worked out, you know, like that can happen and it can backfire.
• 17:33
  But for some, for some reason, we, you know, I trusted their opinion. I knew it was my opportunity and I stuck to it and got around the corner of it. So I don't know, you know, like, your life could be totally different if your mom was, like, yes, come home oh thousand percent. We'll do everything for you and it'll be great.
• 17:49
  You know, I think like that is is hard is that decision has to be for parents. Because again, it could have backfired. But luckily thing for you. Yeah, you had a great growth period. I'm so glad you didn't. And I'm so glad your parents. Yeah, they I'm sure like thousands more. Maybe your dad is like, no way.
• 18:07
  Oh, yeah. Yeah, I mean, honestly, my mom too, but, like, my dad was worse for sure. He's like, you don't have a home to go to. So. Yeah. So I mean, I know where it's hard cause I know how my family. Yeah. But again, like, at the time, it was like, how dare you? And now I'm like, thank goodness, right?
• 18:26
  Because, my family, we're still very cool. Everything's okay. Yeah. You know, there are times where you, you know, you're always going to, you know, miss people and that kind of thing. Right? I think you would probably agree. Thank goodness we didn't weenie out. Oh, yeah. Yeah. We'll go back. And, you know, because we probably would have been like, let me go back.
• 18:44
  No. Yeah. So once you get close I'm very thankful for the experience and that I stayed and that my parents like didn't just, like succumb to like, my own, like, cries. Yeah. Like it is hard though even now, as a parent, like, you don't know, am I making the right choice? So I can't imagine how hard that was.
• 19:02
  But I always tell them, like, I really do appreciate it, that they, you know, pushed me through that that moment
• 19:08
  I want to jump into your coaching career now. Okay. Something I did not know until this morning was that you actually became the head coach at Furman when you were just 23 years old. Yeah, it's a terrible idea. I mean, and Emily was telling me that at 22, you were the assistant coach, and then the next year, you're now head coach.
• 19:33
  Yeah, yeah. Two questions. What was going through your mind? And also, like, how did this even come about? At the time, you know, my, my husband was, a GA at Clemson. And so we were kind of trying to stay in that area. I had taught for one year and hated it. I am not a be here.
• 19:56
  You have to sit here until this time person. I like to just, you know, I'm kind of all over the place. Yeah. And so I always thought I would teach and coach like my mom did. And I was going to coach all the sports, like, not just volleyball. And so I didn't really enjoy teaching. Again, not.
• 20:14
  But this time I was like, I'm cutting the cord. It wasn't, you know, and I talked to my husband at the time, we had just gotten married, and I was like, can I please, you know, try something different. And so, he was doing his thing and he was like, whatever, you know, but there were bills that had to be paid.
• 20:29
  So I was like, I will get a side job if I need it, you know? Whatever. So, I had gotten hired at Furman as the assistant, which wasn't a full time job at the time. But I really wanted that opportunity, and I thought it'd be great. And I actually talked to my, head coach because I was.
• 20:46
  I was only a year out of college, and she had kind of called me about it and said, hey, they're looking for an assistant. And I talked to her and she was like, yeah, go for it. You know, like, if you can get it, it's a good foot in the door. So I was actually on my first year I was coaching and I was, I was like, got a side.
• 21:04
  You might not know this, side job. I was working in the garden department at the Easley Lowe's. Like, this was my big career shift. Wow, was I just. But I just wanted to do this job, and I was like, but I will. I needed to supplement, like, a little. We had to make it work. Yeah. We're young.
• 21:21
  We didn't have kids yet. We weren't making really any money. And so we just had to put everything together. Right. But so in the spring of my, I guess I was the assistant, so I would go to morning workouts. And then I go teach, then I would coach, and then I would come kind of do some recruiting at night a little bit.
• 21:39
  And I did that for like a semester, just kind of all the time. And then the summer I started working at Lowe's too, and I said, so tell my teaching, because my it was I had to finish my year teaching. And so, yeah. And then that summer I did that. And then I didn't really have to do that as much anymore.
• 21:53
  And so I worked for I was only assistant for ten months. We were together, that coach that hired me. And then he got a great opportunity back at the school that he had come from. And so he went back up there, and he had only been gone for like a year. So he was able to kind of jump back up there and, and pick up that, and I was married and he was doing his thing, so I wasn't like, I was looking to leave or anything.
• 22:18
  Yeah. And the timing worked. Right place, right time. Probably overconfident, not aware. That was probably my attitude. And again, the same thing. Like, I like what I was doing, and it was really fun. And, the opportunity was there, and I just think you know, for what it is, is probably convenient hire for them. And lucky me, I happened to be there.
• 22:42
  And then again, I think I tried to make the most out of it, you know, and obviously staying there here, like I didn't blow it. Yeah. I mean, kind of deal. But yeah, I do feel like even at a young age with very with no experience, I just really felt like I could do it for some reason.
• 22:59
  I was probably more confident then in it than I am now. After all this time, I feel like, yeah, you know, you just don't know what you don't know. And so you're just young and going with it. Yeah. I mean, I think that that is something that I'm sure a lot of our listeners can relate to and that opportunities present themselves and we we say this all the time, you have an option.
• 23:21
  You can either take it on a project with that growth mentality of, I don't know if I'm ready for this, but I'm going to try my best. Or you can shy away from it. And I want to hear that you you did the first and, you really embrace that challenge. And, you know, some of it was like, maybe at the time I didn't quite realize.
• 23:40
  Yeah, how crazy that was, right? I mean, can you think now, let's say, you know, Emily, for example, next year or two years. Yeah, I coach it. Yeah. Can you imagine that? I mean, it's it's insane. So it's funny, I just we had camp and some of the, you know, I've been there long enough now that some of my players children are coming to camp and we had a dinner with two, three alums.
• 24:05
  Two of them were the very first class of me. I was an assistant when they came recorded, and I was like, we're basically the same age. You know, it's so funny because you don't think of it that way. But, I mean, I laughed so hard. We had so much fun. And it was just so great thinking about, like, because even the the person that hired me, he was also young at the time, and together we were just two young coaches, like, not only thing.
• 24:29
  And so we were just laughing about it and it was so great to still be connected with that group and, the memories and just realizing, oh my gosh, we're almost the same age, what was happening, you know, so, a very different coach through the years to, you know, so there's so many things they bring up.
• 24:46
  I was like, I don't even remember that. I probably black some of that stuff out. Yeah, well, that begs the question, like, how is your coaching philosophy changed from when you were, you know, a starting head coach at 23 years old to now? Oh, I am sure about that. Yeah, I'm sure my hair was on fire when I, you know, I just ready to just run people and do stuff and.
• 25:07
  Yeah, but yeah. So and tons of energy, you know, and so I think that it has changed. I think I've probably got a lot more perspective. You know, I think we handle young athletes a little different now too. So, I mean, I'm hoping that I grew, and that I am a better coach now than I was then.
• 25:27
  I think you can always. I think having children changed my perspective quite a bit. I think when you're young and sometimes you don't have kids and you're not seeing it from a parent's perspective, it can be a little bit different. Yeah. You know, I just feel like being there that long. I the only thing that I is tough is, you know, you know, the mistakes you made and you're still, you know, like, you can see them now or like I did.
• 25:52
  I probably didn't handle that situation great. Or wish I would have done that better. And I feel like sometimes when you're at a new you go from like school to school, like a lot of coaches do. You can make those adjustments and have a fresh start where I feel like being at one school, the whole time, you kind of stuck a little bit with those and you got to work through them and then you got to, you know, embrace your mistakes a little bit more and be like, okay, we did do it this way, but now we're doing it.
• 26:17
  That way or something. So, it's also a great thing. It has its its pros and cons of being at the same place for so long. Yeah, that's something that I've been thinking about a lot. It's like the turnover within collegiate athletics coaching is yeah, extremely high. It's business. Yeah. And so these days having a coach who's been basically their entire career and with the same school, in the same, team like that does require adaptability.
• 26:46
  It requires the perspective that you're talking about, like the allowing yourself to change your approach to coaching over time and not run away from the mistakes you've made.
• 26:58
  I think in this day and age, and I'm sure you can attest, like, especially with nil like now this it's kind of spreading to the athlete side as well. Right.
• 27:06
  Like, oh well, I don't like my coach or I don't like this team or I'm not getting enough playing time. So I'm going to look for something else rather than face a challenge head on. Yeah. Same thing with coaching, right? Like, I don't like this athletic department. I don't like, you know, x, y, z. So I'm going to keep my door open.
• 27:25
  Yeah. For other possibilities. Yeah.
• 27:27
  just think it's a unique perspective to have on the podcast as somebody who's had that longevity.
• 27:33
  I always am curious, what was your vision at 23 coming in? I don't well, I'm not sure this year to keep the job. The job. Don't screw this up.
• 27:46
  No, I think it was just it was a lot of. I do remember it being fun, you know, like, it was, It was fun because it was competitive. You know, you're still someone who could get in there and play and mix it up in practice if you needed to. So you were getting that outlet of still kind of being an athlete.
• 28:05
  But I just think that it, I mean, it really was like, this is a great opportunity. Yeah. You know, you know what? Yeah, I think you're there. I'm sure there was some, some winging it a little bit because of learning some of these things. And so I just don't know if I actually had a huge vision.
• 28:27
  But I do know it was like, I want to help these girls get better. I want to help them win. We want to win, you know, was a lot of probably winning. Yeah. And trying to, you know, get your first win when you're first champion, you know, like you're trying to do all these firsts. So I think it is just the vision is that like how do we get some, you know, more people in here that can help us win and how do we train so we can win and how.
• 28:52
  Because that's really like at that point in my career, I'm I'm certain that's what I was judging my success. Yeah. Like 100% was like wins and losses. Right. So that's probably what my vision was. Get more wins, how do I get more wins? And we were just, we were having a group we spoke with yesterday, and we were talking about learning environments and performance learning environments versus mastery environments.
• 29:17
  And, you know, it's performance environments are exactly what you're talking about. It's hey, we want the wins. Yeah. This is the standard we're held to. And as an early professional, in your career, like you do have standards you have to meet, right? Like, I, I don't have a winning record. I'm probably out the door sooner rather than later, so that is at the forefront.
• 29:37
  But I would say, and just through conversations, we've had, you definitely have shifted into more of this mastery environment. You're creating that for your athletes. How do I help me athletes, be better. How do I help them not only be better athletes, but better people, and just learn and grow. So, at what point do you feel like that shift started to happen for you in your career?
• 30:01
  I think, you know, the longer you do it, the older you start to figure some things out. I think it was a mix of, like I mentioned, like having my own kids a little bit, but honestly, it wasn't till they got a little older. When they're little and run around, it still didn't kind of click necessarily. But I do think that there were some really good teams that, due to uncontrollable circumstances, didn't necessarily win the championship, win a championship or, you know, like these, these things come up that are out of your control, that can really just take a season away from you or whatever.
• 30:37
  I think I started to figure out this is a more of a long term thing, and how can we how can it not become just about wins and losses? Because these guys are going to leave here and they're not going to be able to play pro or do all these things, and how do we send them out into the world like, you know, ready to dominate?
• 30:57
  And I think it was a kind of a slow shift and I think as of late, and maybe it is because I am getting older, like, what kind of impact do we want this program to have on our athletes? How can we set ourself apart a little bit? And I do think it's because the landscape of levels of, of schools and sports, and even within the division one level, there's so many, especially in volleyball, I mean, there's so many levels within Division one and it's like, okay,
• 31:24
  what are the benefits of, you know, going to a school, the size, the style. It's division one of a firm. And what type of athletes are we attracting and then how do we get provide what they're really looking for? And I just think over the years I just kind of started to realize what is special about that place.
• 31:44
  I, I wouldn't have gotten in a firm and I wouldn't have taken advantage, probably because I, you know, my perspective was very different going in when I was an athlete. But then I see these young ladies. I mean, you've met Emily. Oh, yeah. You know, like, how do I help these guys? How do I push these guys in some other areas and give them the confidence to go out?
• 32:02
  Because I do think we have some girls that, our athletes, they are, they're they're so smart. They're so personable. They work their butt off, you know, like they are what the world needs, you know what I mean? And so how do we help prepare them and maybe some deficiencies or open their eyes to some other things, as well as pushing them on the court because
• 32:24
  we talk about it a lot, you know, like winning's fun.
• 32:27
  You have to do hard things to win. Yeah. And be successful. So it doesn't mean we're making it any easier for them. I think it's more challenging because we're asking them to do a lot of things. Well, it's not like, okay, you get to blow off your academics because we're just here to win championships. Like, no, you have to do this and you have to do that and you have to do this, and that's just what it's going to take.
• 32:47
  Oh, and then in the meantime, I'd like you to have fun and figure out who you are as a human,
• 32:52
  you know? So I just think it is, it's it's very challenging in other ways as well, where you could go to a program and is like, it is only one thing, but it's not any easier because that one thing is consuming you, and it can be even more stressful, and it can be a different hard in a different way.
• 33:10
  So I think there's so many ways to go about it that you really got to figure out, okay, what's going to benefit our athletes at this place? At this point in their life, at the level we're able to be competitive at, and trying to keep your focus on that because there are so many distractions and so many things going on in the college athlete landscape.
• 33:33
  Yeah, a lot going on. Emily. We you know, you've experienced this firsthand. And it is I be curious to hear from you development wise, like, what have you really valued about. Yeah. Furman and about, you know, your relationship with the volleyball team and your coach. Like how has it supported your development? Not just as an athlete. Yeah.
• 33:55
  But holistically as myself kind of referencing. Yeah. I'm not going to lie. I feel like I'm a completely different person than who I was freshman year. Coach has actually instilled in me like a lot of things I need, like skills. I need not only just like as an athlete, but I feel like in the workplace that I've been able to apply, like this summer, one that really stands out to me is my time management skills.
• 34:21
  As a freshman, being a setter, your leader, and whether you like it or not. And, I would be. So I found out that being early is like being like an hour to, like a place. And then being like on time means being 15 minutes like before. Like the time actually starts and then being late is like, if you get there like three minutes or on the time you're supposed to be there, that's late.
• 34:43
  So anyway, I would sometimes because I also was hurt, but like, that's not an excuse. I would sometimes be one of the last ones showing up on the court, like for practice and stuff and something that like, really like stood out to me was in our individual meetings. Coach was kind of telling me like, yeah, you are a leader and you're one of the last ones to like, step on the court.
• 35:05
  Like you need to be like on time. So, like coming into spring season, I believe it was like sophomore year or something coming into spring season. I made like my ultimate goal. Of course, I wanted to work hard and just, like, be better, like with my technical skills. But like also off the court, I made it my goal to like, be one of the first ones there so I wouldn't hear it from coach.
• 35:23
  So it's you never like you're always just technically the last for the lot. Yeah, exactly. I was like, always a last person there. I was never late. It's. Yeah. Yeah, you're never late. It was just. And your ability to just snap on, you know, that is because you're like, why would I get there when I can just start?
• 35:44
  You know, I do understand that. Yeah, but it was. And I think I will give Emily credit. She fixed it and be great. You know, she really responded to what I challenge you to do. And she's been doing great. Yeah. Like, now I'm like, I would say I'm one of the first ones. Like, they're on the court or like in the gym general.
• 36:03
  Like, yeah, sure, maybe I would see you. You'd be me sometimes. But like, I feel like I would always like, try to be there first. So like, just like, skills like that. I feel like coaches really helped, like, instill in me. I mean, also other things I could really like, look back in like different moments. There is one other moment where I felt like just being just a lot of leadership skills, even still to me, like also just being loud on the court and being able to like demand and stuff and be assertive.
• 36:29
  I feel like as a freshman, you, so we didn't have a great practice like, and you know, coaches, coaches giving it to us. And, and I really looked at me and you were like, you're the quarterback on the team and you're the quietest one on the court. And I was like, I know. But I really appreciated that.
• 36:48
  Like, I still remember it to this day because I really that made me reflect on, like, who I wanted to be like as a setter, because I feel like leadership can look so many different ways, like it doesn't you doesn't have to be the most aggressive. Like you could also be the controlled and calm one. And I really reflected in like who I wanted to be.
• 37:05
  And I just realized since, like, hard work has always been like my number one primary thing that I always like, want to be consistent with, I just made sure that I would instill that with my teammates in terms of just like being energetic or cheering, sometimes a little too loud. I feel like just like going to your screen, if I scream, I scream.
• 37:23
  I have that one scream where I need everyone. But yeah, I just feel like just skills like that she's really helped instill in me and that has helped me like put it on to like, the workplace is being here on time, like being like assertive and what I'm saying being confident as also just being a leader on the court, but also just trying to bring that into the workplace.
• 37:44
  All of that has really helped me with my personal development, and so I would echo it because, you know, one thing that I really pride myself on is punctuality. Like, I'm always on time. I'm nine times out of ten early, right for anything. And at elevate this, you know, we have this EVP that's work that works for you right.
• 38:06
  So it's yeah. So we operate within like 8 to 5. But there's some flexibility within that. Right. Me I'm always here right at eight, 755 like I'm I'm here, I get here 755 Emily's already here. Yeah. She's I mean, she's beat me to her desk set up. She's ready to go. Like, hey, it does transfer. And that's what's so cool to hear.
• 38:28
  It's like it was something that came to awareness through your, through your sport. But then you've grown in that capacity and it's carried over into life. And we try to preach that in the work that we do in sports psychology and that, yes, we're teaching you mental skills to help you perform better in sport, but it's also help you perform better in life.
• 38:50
  Right. Like these skills carry over. So I've absolutely seen that. And then, you know, I wasn't there, but I know Milt talked about when you went to his in-person, event, with a company he was doing a leadership training with, and he threw Emily into the discussion with one of the groups, the roundtable discussions. And she was sitting there right next to the CEO, like, asking him questions and talking to him and just really embracing, that that ability to get to know people and put yourself in uncomfortable positions, and speak up.
• 39:26
  So we've seen it transfer for sure, and I thank you. It's a testament to, to you, but also to the work that's being done behind the scenes on the coaching front. Yeah. Like that been a really impactful experience for us to see.
• 39:40
  Just for the record, that I'm not on time all the time. My family would be like, she's so.
• 39:44
  And yeah, luckily my husband is very punctual, you know, and I have both the leisure life. I'm like, where are we going to be when. So I really can turn it off. I'm not going to lie, I haven't turned it all good. Don't. Now I'm just on time to everything now. I would be happy to reflect on that like that.
• 40:05
  So I know we're we're coming up on time here. I want to really do a little bit of a future focused, you know, I've got coach and athlete here. What are you guys hoping for this season to win? So they're going to so gun championship. There's still some killer in there right? Yeah. She's being professional. But you know I don't mistake her kindness for weakness.
• 40:27
  No, never. But, No, it's just that it's also like my senior year, so. And have basically all our starters are coming back. It's a really great team. And we were second to the seed like last season. And I feel like now we have you and pillows. We're partnering with Angela's you know the mental game. So I really am excited for the season.
• 40:46
  I just pray that we all just, you know, dominate and hopefully win a second championship because that's the goal and that's what I really want. Also, just coming out of my like my senior year as well. So I'm really excited. We've been training already too. We have some fun practices this team practices for fun. Me and my teammates, we've been getting some reps in there, so I'm hoping that everyone's ready to dominate this year.
• 41:09
  Yeah, I think the difference with this group is, you know, it's kind of trying to get them to, you know, be careful with them. We return everybody vibe, you know, because that's just not a guarantee that has nothing to do with anything. I think yes, it is a fact. We return a lot of people. I think, the important thing is that I think there's been a shift in the mood of the team.
• 41:34
  They're probably as organized on their own as far as, like, we can't work with them in the summer, but they can. They can play on their own, and and they can train with our strength coaches. And they've just they've gotten more organized on their own. They've been more driven on their own. When they are together. The vibe is just different when they are playing in there.
• 41:52
  So I'm excited for them. I think my job will really be like, you can't just return everybody and do the same things, you know, like, what are you really willing to to do and how hard are you willing to train? And how are you willing to change some of your behaviors to put you in the best possible position to be successful?
• 42:12
  It's not just, you know, help. A lot of times it it's like, well, we were good last year. We're going to be better this year. Like, that just doesn't compute. And so it really is like the questions in, are you going to be willing to do this our deficiencies better and work on, are you going to be willing to, you know, get along or are you going to be willing to, you know, all those things which I think, you know, we have so many, athletes coming back again.
• 42:38
  Emily mentioned it like taking it. We were like, how can we push these guys? How can we make them better? How do we. There's just some things, deficiencies that we do have and talking with just somehow getting connected with you guys again. And I think it does come down to if an opportunity presents itself, what are you going to do with it?
• 42:58
  And I think an opportunity to work with you and and blows came and we you know, we jumped on we felt like how do we make it work? And we were able to make it work. And I think that, you know, the girls. Same thing. We had the first meeting. What are they going to do? They didn't all just sit there.
• 43:16
  I think they dove right in. And and so I think that is what I really excited about this group because they have been diving in. They're not we talk a lot about in the past. Like we'd love to dip our toe in the water and okay, we're going to be good today. And it's like, that's just not how it works.
• 43:29
  You know, you going to have to commit. You're going to have to get uncomfortable. And so I think not only our you know, we've done a lot of things. But I can't give this group enough credit for I do think they're actively approaching some things differently in there. You know, it's not a guarantee, but I do think they're doing some things differently that give them a better, opportunity for a good season.
• 43:53
  And so, yeah, like, I just I do really appreciate that, that they're doing that. We all would you say, I know. Yeah. I also just wanted to add like, I just feel like there's a sting from like losses. Yeah. Like I mean we were like we had a great season. I feel like there's also some moments where we definitely could have done better.
• 44:12
  There's one game that was actually on my first day that I'll never forget, that I don't even want to mention right now, but it was pretty bad. But, yeah, I just think there's like a sting that I think we just want to really get in there and showcase what we really have and just leave it all out there and not be afraid to do so, because I think fear sometimes could hold us back as well.
• 44:34
  I think that's kind of what happened in the called tournament. I mean, Wofford like, I don't know if I can mention this, like, you know, like with Wofford. I feel like you're mentioning Wofford because we played them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, Wofford now being like three time champs, I feel like they also didn't have like that pressure, like that mental aspect of the game that we had was like, we aren't like we didn't win a championship last year.
• 44:57
  Like we do have something to lose. We had a great season. We do have something to lose. I think that mental game kind of got to us. I would really love to like push past that and really just dominate on the court and not let the whole like, mental side of it really affect us on the court. But I just want to mention that because I felt like that was something that really did help them win again.
• 45:17
  that's a great point. I think the that fear, the pressure is something we talk about all the time. But one thing that's standing out to me is the mentality around when you're at the top of your game, change your game. And and the premise behind that is like when things are going well, when we have, a team full of returners and we've got a lot of strengths, what are we going to do differently to continue growing?
• 45:41
  Because it's not we just show up, do exactly what we did last year and expect a different outcome. We do start to make changes. We do still have to, you know, push ourselves, continue growing in ways that maybe we were scared to do the year before. So every team, every season has its own unique challenges.
• 46:01
  And I'm excited to jump into the the preparation side of that with you all and, and be a partner in that process. Any final thoughts from you, Michelle or Emily? Anything you wanted to add before we wrap up today? Thanks for being a great coach. Good job. Yes, she's a great coach. She's a great coach. Now, I actually do want to mention something.
• 46:24
  I just feel like I have dealt with like I played for nine years. So I've dealt with like a lot of like coaches like that are passive. I feel like more on the chill side. I don't really like, you know, let you play and I'm not going to name but you know, and then also overly demanding coaches that are just like you kind of dread the next time you're gonna step on the court.
• 46:42
  And I just feel like you do fall in the middle variation where I actually like you insert the right amount of discipline, but like, you also like kind of know when to dial it back and like, speak to me. I just remember one time, like I had a really rough week and it was just like three exams didn't do well in the first one.
• 46:59
  And then and then also I just wasn't playing good volleyball and coach, like even though she was like still coaching me during practice after you came up to me and you're like, like, what's wrong? And I'll never forget that because it really like made me realize that you care for me, like not only as an athlete, but also just as a person.
• 47:17
  So yeah, I just want to say thank you. You're a great coach and you've really helped me. Thanks. So yeah, great effort. Yeah. Thank you. It's been a lot of fun. And I do think she has grown a lot. So I think that's probably I am I think a lot of people ask why I'm still doing it or why I'm still firm.
• 47:33
  And whenever I do think at firm and we're allowed to have the relations and love relationship of just like, people do say they're not coming and going all the time. We, we have a good foundation of kids. I think, you know, I think we try to instill that trust that now there are times when I do, you know, get frustrated and, you know, oh, yeah, we're human.
• 47:55
  Lose it. But I think that, you know, we want to try to. And I haven't done it with every single athlete. You know, I haven't nailed every single moment. But I do think if there's an opportunity to build that relationship, you're going to be able to push them a little bit more and get a little bit more growth out of them in the end.
• 48:15
  And I do think it's Emily's allowed that, some athletes really like that's a tough egg to crack. And I'm never going to get to know that person. And I do think that it needs to go both ways. I'm not perfect. Emily's not perfect. You know, we're going to have bad conversations, too. But I think if you can keep trying.
• 48:36
  But it is. I think it's a big responsibility for the athletes, too. They have to want to grow and they have to want to do some things. And, and so I'm, I've been really happy with this group because I don't think it's been perfect. We've had some big setbacks, let downs, challenges. We've had some great moments.
• 48:56
  But I do think after four years of it, you know, she's had a lot of ups and ups and downs. I feel like she's playing her best ball and she's as committed as she's ever been. And I think that's the nice thing with this group that's returning. Their is committed as they've ever been. And that's why we're going to be successful.
• 49:15
  Win or lose a championship, whatever this group is going to find success because I think they're as motivated and as dedicated as they were, you know, have ever been. And I think that's hard when you return that many people, they usually are like real chill. And oh, we got it. And I just don't think I do think there's a little bit of a chip on their shoulder, which helps motivate as well.
• 49:37
  So I don't know. I think there's a lot of things that can go right, that can go wrong. And just trying to work through all of that and build the relationships with athletes. Some, like I said, are harder than others. But, you know, you still got to try and, see how you can help them grow, I guess.
• 49:56
  But I was listening to a podcast of this from amylose and I think Drew Brannon, it said, what got you here won't get you there. And, I mean, I literally sat my car and wrote it down because I feel like that will be our mantra because it's just that is a real pitfall of returning a lot of athletes.
• 50:15
  Yeah. You know, I was like, okay, we were we had our one of our best years and we're all returning. This is just automatically going to be a better year. And that's just that. And I think they understand that which is exciting. We're going gonna put that on a banner. But we should be in the locker. You laugh it on the head.
• 50:31
  But it is so funny. And I do think, you know, things get put in front of you and sometimes you miss them and sometimes you grab on and take advantage of it, and I do. I was like, I was meant to be listening. Yeah, yeah. That's right. Yeah, it's it's kind of funny. It was meant to be a little moments like that.
• 50:48
  So. Well, I'm sure from the conversations we've had today, there's somebody listening who will say the exact same thing about some of the advice we've heard from, from both you and Emily. And, you know, I, I hope our listeners stay tuned into freshman volleyball this season and see all the great things that are going to be accomplished.
• 51:07
  But thank you both for for taking the time to be on the podcast. And of course, you know, I'm just excited to see what's in store for us down the road. Really excited. Yeah, it's so fun. I hope I hope we get lots of people out watching this. Know. Yeah. Timmins arena, new arena. Yeah, it's a big arena.
• 51:24
  Bigger you know. Yeah.