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Bearing Fruit as a Christian Coach · 307 Faithful

• Devin Davis: Hey everybody. I'm Devin Davis, ⁓ host of the 307 podcast. ⁓ as you guys are probably aware, we haven't had an episode for a while. did one right before state wrestling and have been ⁓ on kind of a for a little while. I'm without my sidekick Paxton Yates. He's a senior and he's got a lot going between track and baseball. So, it's just. me solo today, but I have a great guest and ⁓ we're glad we're finally able to connect. We had a little difficulty there, but I'm glad everybody's been patient. I'm glad he's been patient and I think this will be a great episode today. So back. Share this podcast with all your friends, all of your family. As I tell everybody, we have ⁓ an page, we have a Facebook page. You can find this on Spotify, Apple podcasts, YouTube, about anywhere you can find a podcast. So, hopefully you'll subscribe and, you'll follow us and, and be updated on, episodes down the road. have some exciting guests lined up after this one. So, ⁓ we'll bring you some more exciting podcasts. So, without further ado, I'd like to introduce today's podcast guest. He is a teacher and a coach at Natrona County High School. his name is Tom Grogan. Tom was recommended me by JC Navarro, the FCA representative for the Casper area for Natrona County High School. So ⁓ we'd like to in Tom today. Tom, thanks for taking some time. As we talked about I started recording this year in your planning episode, you got a lot of great. ⁓ artwork behind you. And as I said, ⁓ we just kind of want to start off with, at for me, I don't ⁓ really you all that well. ⁓ I did little creeping on social media. We have that nowadays, but just give a little background on who you are, what you do, anything you'd like to share with our listeners, Tom. Tom Grogan: Well, first of all, Devon, I just want to say thanks for having me today. It's a pleasure. And yeah, you're not going to find very much about me on social media because I don't have any social media. We've got, well, Twitter, I guess. It's not even Twitter anymore. It's X. So yeah, you're not going to find a whole lot about me. But my wife, she keeps everybody in the world up to loop, up to speed on what our world is. So yeah, I Devin Davis: I didn't. work. Tom Grogan: Been coaching and teaching here in the 20 County High School. This is my 19th year, so I've been doing this a long time and you know and I was in. County High School that had been connected with FCA Randy Larson since I was in seventh grade and you he and I were just sharing some text messages the other day about Jesus back in the mid 90s he used to come to my house and pick me up and we would go to breakfast together and read the Bible and have a little Bible studies just he and I and you know those mentoring moments were just so important and impactful for me that you know I was in college debating on what I wanted to do. knew that somehow, some way, ⁓ same mentorship is what I felt like I needed to provide to the world. And yeah, I've been really fortunate over the last 19 years to be able to do that. And in hometown of Casper with my family and old high school friends has been pretty remarkable. Devin Davis: That's, that's pretty cool story. I mean, 19 years ago, were a student and now you're a teacher ⁓ you were on one side and now you're on the other side. So, you it's pretty cool to see that full circle, how God works in your life. So tell me about, your high I guess a little bit about high school and what you did athletically in high school, and then kind of in transition into your, your college. days and what happened there. Tom Grogan: Sure. when I was in high school here, I was a wrestler, ⁓ a football player. I did track ⁓ and played baseball. So I was kind of involved in everything. And when I was done ⁓ playing sports high school, I ⁓ was fortunate to get ⁓ a football scholarship at the University of Sioux Falls. And I went and played ⁓ there for years under ⁓ One of the greatest men I know, Coach Bob Young. And you know, you talk about mentorship, I feel like God has just had his hand on my life since I was a kid, really, since a teenager. Coach Young was just a tremendous mentor to me. And you he and I exchanged phone calls about once a month for, I don't know, was probably a good decade. and just keeping in touch with him. And then I was lucky enough, Coach Young retired in 2004, my senior year. And I had told the new head coach, Kaelin DeBoer at the time, that I was thinking about becoming a GA down at the University of Nebraska. And he said, well, why would you go there when you can just be here with us? And I said, well, I guess I didn't really know that that was an option. And so he actually hired me be the O-line coach at the University of Sioux Falls. And I was there for a few seasons, lucky enough to win a national championship with him. man, was young, I was married, wasn't sure if I was going to have kids. ⁓ But wife and I had a long conversation about just the amount of work that it takes to be a coach. And especially that level with recruiting and everything. mean, really, you only have about three weeks off a year. put my name in the hat for one job and that was to be a teacher and a coach at ⁓ 19 years later, here I am ⁓ I wouldn't a thing. Devin Davis: Has so, ⁓ along with football and do you coach other sports or have you coached other sports in the past? Tom Grogan: Yeah, so I actually did coach wrestling a little bit early on in my career. I am an avid fly fisherman. Because I coach football, the hunting season is just not really an option for me. And so I am ⁓ like, football is over, it's like it's time to get into ⁓ the season. So ⁓ I some time in the winter and in the spring, and ⁓ obviously the summer doing that. Devin Davis: Yeah. Yep. Tom Grogan: And so yeah, I really haven't prioritized coaching anything else other than son's ⁓ He played Little League Baseball and midget football and did all the things and I helped out with all that. So yeah, right now it's pretty much just, well, it is ⁓ only with the exception I am the brand new, ⁓ this has happened in NC's history, but I am new coach of the Natrona County Fly Fishing Team. So not that it's a sport. But it's kind of a pseudo sport, I guess. Devin Davis: Yeah, that's right. there's, technique involved to that. I mean, ⁓ given me so many things I could talk to you about. that's, mean, fly fishing. I, I wouldn't say I'm avid. love fly fishing. I just don't get to do it very often at all. And so, ⁓ I've got a, a float trip. have a good buddy from high school. graduated from Riverton, and he's a guide. So it kind of is nice to have connections and we're going to go float the big horn, here in about a month or so. ⁓ there's nothing better than that. And then I had some buddies that, were guides for, for cowboy drifters there in Casper. And so, it's just kind of nice to know the right guys. ⁓ you know, so what, where do like to fish? What kind of fly fishing do you like dry fly, nymphing? What, ⁓ where do you like to go? Do you have any favorites without sharing any secrets at all? Tom Grogan: Yeah. There's not a lot of secrets. I mean, in our state, there's three major rivers. Well, four, guess you count the snake, but the green, the big horn slash wind and the North Platte and I fish all of them. I am mostly a streamer junkie, and so I just throw streamers most of the time when it's cold. You know, obviously it's. Devin Davis: Yeah. Uh-huh. Tom Grogan: It's niffing is what I do. But summertime, you know, I've got a couple of trips that I do with my son and some friends where we go dry fly fish. for most part, if I had to make a choice, it's going to be throwing streamers ⁓ almost the time. Devin Davis: Cool. I, you know, the, caught my first, fish on a streamer, the last time I went with my buddy and I can see how you get addicted ⁓ to that. It's there's nothing cooler than that because, man, that fish, ⁓ especially if you kind of see into the water and see that fish come up and just swallow that streamer and the fight is on. there's, there's nothing better than that. Tom Grogan: Yep. Devin Davis: Do you have you fish the green very much at all? Tom Grogan: Yeah, yeah, a good friend of mine that we end up he went to the University of Sioux Falls and played football as well. Goodrich. He he lives in Pinedale ⁓ and I've gone up there and ⁓ fished green a couple of times with him and. Another teacher friend of mine. We were crazy enough to go. You know, during COVID we had heard about this ⁓ section of the green below fontanelle. And we decided that we were going to go over there in February, before they quarantine everything off. And I don't know if you know this, but Big Piney is like the coldest place ⁓ in the 48 on average. ⁓ Devin Davis: you Tom Grogan: I mean, you want to talk about cold. We had a pop-up camper that we were staying in and we woke up in the middle of the night. The heater had frozen and we were in, you know, like 10 degree sleeping bags or something in the pop-up camper. And I thought my hands and feet were going to freeze off. I was so cold. ⁓ But that section below Fontenelle is just, it's really, really cool streamer section. It gets hit by a lot of Utah people. a lot of Wyoming people just cause it's in the middle Devin Davis: You Tom Grogan: I mean, you have Devin Davis: Yeah. Yeah. I, I fished, the seed skiddy, down, down below there and, with, with my buddy and, that day it was pretty warm. So, ⁓ it wasn't, we were doing some, hopper fishing and, that that's a lot of fun, but that's, that's pretty awesome stretch, ⁓ down there too. ⁓ And a lot of cool down there. So if you're not catching fish, you still have a lot of. Tom Grogan: Yeah. Thank Devin Davis: beautiful nature around you. So that was pretty cool. But like you said, it's out in the middle of nowhere, isn't it? Tom Grogan: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and then the other the other place is pretty cool in the green is like way up by the Green River Lakes And if there is anybody that has never driven on a 60 mile their road, you want to talk about one of the worst Maintained roads in Wyoming. Holy smokes I know people like it's it's rattled their car doors like to where the the door doesn't shut anymore. It's so rough Devin Davis: you Yeah. Tom Grogan: But it is just it's beautiful country and I mean that's like the joy of why I fish is it's peace and quiet and you know as it says in the Bible like even the rocks and trees will cry out and I feel like Like part of my worship is being in God's creation and the beauty of being in Wyoming is you know, there's just so many vast opportunities to go and do it and Devin Davis: Yeah. Tom Grogan: you when you're standing in the river and you've got water rushing around your legs and you feel it in your fingers, like it's just, I just feel so connected. And it's one of the beautiful things about it. Devin Davis: Amen. Yeah. to that. think that's about any outdoorsmen in Wyoming would have a hard time telling you they don't believe in God just because of ⁓ beauty of our state. ⁓ know, how diverse it is. It's so cool. So I want to go back to ⁓ Sioux experience for the people around us that don't know, tell us about who Kaylin D'Avore is now ⁓ and Tom Grogan: Yeah. Yeah. Devin Davis: how he, where he went from there. Tom Grogan: Yeah, well, Kaelin DeBoer currently is the head football coach at the University of Alabama. And he's had a very successful career and ⁓ he I still touch base now and ⁓ And he's just one of the most humble down to earth guys there is. And ⁓ in Falls, Sioux Falls, the town itself is just a... Devin Davis: Yep. Tom Grogan: pretty amazing town. It's like one of the coolest towns I've ever been in. And it's just been growing and growing and growing. And it's just kind of that Midwestern hometown kind of a feel where there's not a lot of crazy much of anything. It's just pretty down to earth people. And, you know, when I got there in 2000, they had just come off a national championship in 1996. And so there was a lot of buzz with, with the program itself and coach young and just, you know, it was just had a lot of really good things going for it. And I think when I was there in years that I played, think that we lost a total. When I played and coached, I think we lost a total of six games. over seven seasons, which is just incredible. And I attribute it to ⁓ me. I think any of the coaches, it was just magic. ⁓ And being to a part of that and just the guys and the camaraderie. You know, we had, it was not good facilities. We had to practice at a community practice facility. We had to practice in some of the city parks. We a place called Campus Park that was next to our campus that was literally vines and weeds that we were practicing on the week to week. And I don't know if you've read any of Malcolm Gladwell's stuff. But in one of his books, he talks about kind of the underground kind of basement rough conditions actually breeds some of the best teams. ⁓ totally believe that. know, we weren't playing for NIL. I mean, I'll tell you that right now. At the end of two days, if you made it through two days, you got a t-shirt. And that's what you got for the season. There's no you didn't get to keep anything. I mean everything was property of USF except your T shirt and I still have all of mine because they were like the trophies of the year, you know. Devin Davis: I actually, ⁓ through, ⁓ I'm family through marriage, ⁓ with Travis Eldridge from Cheyenne East. I know Travis played ⁓ at Sioux Falls and his friends with Kaylin. Was he around the same, same time as you? Tom Grogan: Yep. So he graduated in 96, I think, maybe 97. ⁓ But Travis, he was awesome. He actually opened up his home to us. We would do a summer camp when he was a head coach at Lingo Fort Laramie. And we would go down there and we stayed at his house and got to know him really well. And even to this day, he and I are really good buddies. out of our way to ⁓ each other when we're in either town. And yeah, Travis is just a tremendous guy. ⁓ I have just nothing but the highest level of respect for him. Devin Davis: Yeah. Yeah. Yep. His ⁓ wife, Maureen would be my second cousin. so, ⁓ have, just got to know them. Great kids, ⁓ Trevor trace great family. And I think they traveled out. and a couple of buddies traveled out to the bowl game this year. one of the playoff games that, that Caitlin coached in. So that was pretty awesome. that, in, in that, you know, you, you talked about your FCA experience, your faith experience in high school. What was it like in college? Tom Grogan: Okay. ⁓ cool. Well, when I was in college, I was actually the FCA worship leader. I play guitar. I mean, I'm not saying that was very good, but there was a few of us. There's probably about 15 or 20 of us that were faithful attendees to FCA. The University of Sioux Falls, for those that don't know, is a Baptist university. So we had, they didn't mandatory or have mandatory chapel. Devin Davis: you Tom Grogan: they had chapel every week and the students would go to chapel or most of the students would go to chapel. Then we kind of just different Bible studies and things that we did ⁓ on the And so we. would get together ⁓ of the athletes ⁓ a week and share our faith and grow together. Then we would do ⁓ football related specific stuff as well. And Coach Young was just ⁓ always favor of that and would come and visit us every now and again and we guess there's ⁓ some and some things. And so that was pretty much the extent of our FCA. But I think just speaking on FCA, I think that like that. group and organization and what it's able to facilitate in bringing people from different denominations together to really understand that you're doing what God has gifted you to do and you need to put the priorities in the correct place. And it was just really great because even some of the best athletes that would come to FCA, like it was just, it was so encouraging to see them know and speak to like my faith is the most important thing and it's not the scholarship that I have it's not the fame of the recognition it is God that is is the reason why I do this and being able to have the community of people where they're in junior high high school college it is ⁓ the center of it is just is a really really good thing Devin Davis: Amen. That's, that's incredible really, you know, and that's what I think of a saying, right? Keep the main thing, the main thing. ⁓ and you know, whether it's which we're, we both love, right. And, or whatever it is in life is the center of all that we do and the motivation for the all that we do should be our faith in Jesus Christ. And then on top of that, right, is like you said, I think that's a great thing is thinking about the Tom Grogan: Yeah. Devin Davis: all the denominations and some of those peripheral things unfortunately sometimes ⁓ to divide us, you know, really at the heart ⁓ Christianity ⁓ the cross and Jesus Christ and keeping that at the center of our relationships because that should develop that unity. And that's one of the cool things with FCA, you know, as I've been involved in it and now a ⁓ is Tom Grogan: Yeah. Devin Davis: Focus on focusing on what matters and what unites us more than what divides us. And ⁓ that's a cool thing with a ⁓ right? There, you're going to have several guys that go to different churches and maybe don't believe quite the same thing, but at the core of that is the gospel. And we have to keep that at the center. And I think that's a great reminder of that. So do you there was a time, you know, in your life where you really committed yourself to following Jesus or, you know, surrendering, submitting, whatever it would be. Is there kind of a point in your life where you felt like that was the time that you could point to? Tom Grogan: Yeah, so I grew up in a Methodist home. We ⁓ go to church on Christmas and Easter. It's pretty standard. And I ⁓ went to one time with my friend in eighth grade, and it just felt You know, when you when boys and girls are kind of going through that physical transformation and cognitive transformation, I think that there are some spiritual questions that we're all trying to ask. I just felt like God was ⁓ knocking at the door. Right. ⁓ as I I went to church the one time, I was like, man, this was awesome. I need more of this. ⁓ And thankfully at the time, know, that was that was really Randy Larson was He was a PE teacher and an English teacher at CY junior high here in Casper. if know Randy, you know that that guy is just, he's going to tell every single person he knows about Jesus and he's going to invite everybody he knows to come to FCA, church, like whatever it might be. And he's Tommy, you need to come to FCA. And I said, okay, can you pick me up at my house? ⁓ And he said, So he just rolls up in his Honda ⁓ I think. No, wasn't even that nice. ⁓ It was a some sort of Honda and he shows up to my house in the fall and it's raining So he's got his windshield wipers on one side working but the windshield blade wiper blade on the passenger side was broken so he had a piece of napkin that was sitting on the on the metal nub and It's just squeaking back and forth on the window and I get in and I'm like, hey, mr. Larson He's like, hey you ready and he starts taking off. And if you know Randy, you know, he's late to about everything Devin Davis: Ha ha. Tom Grogan: He's like, gotta hustle up. So he's buzzing through Casper. Windshield wiper blade is squeaking, or the metal is squeaking on the windshield. And I'm wondering to myself, what am I getting myself into right now? the course of ⁓ next year or so, ⁓ and another guy, Ken who was our campus security guard, and also youth pastor at the church that I had attended. ⁓ They just poured into me and they taught me a lot of things about myself and lot of really biblical truths to some of the questions that I had been asking a spiritual standpoint. And I knew that at that moment, I I ⁓ kind went for about six months throughout my eighth grade career and then in the summer in between eighth and ninth grade, ⁓ I my life to Christ. And this is total transformation and you want to talk about a 180. I mean, was the kid who didn't care about school. I knew I was a pretty good athlete and that's really all that mattered. But I didn't care about relationships with other people. I didn't care about anything that wasn't outside of serving me. And I apologize to my parents about once a year because I was a not head kid. I made a lot of bad decisions. But through their grace, raising me and some of the mentorship that I really needed. Christ got a hold of me and just totally changed my life. And since then, like I said at the beginning of the podcast, my feeling and reason why I feel like I put on this earth is to do the exact same thing. And so I've tried to build as many relationships with people and try to lead as many people to Christ through mentorship, Bible studies, the whole thing. ⁓ And has been a great catalyst for that. Devin Davis: And I know that, ⁓ one of the things I do know is you've been, involved with FCA and like you, you kind of designed and put on the ⁓ lineman, big man camp, and in, Casper, how many years have you done that? Tom Grogan: This year will be our third. And it's one of those things like I've always wanted to do it, but never had ⁓ the I know. There's just a lot of moving parts to things like that. And one of them is like trying to find the right people to help out and. know, JC, I brought the idea to him. He's like, well, I think I could find some people. And I was like, if you can find people, let's get it on. And he's helped out tremendously and got a lot of the kind of back end stuff done. And that's been a really, really cool experience for not only me, but all the kids that have come to the camp from around the state. Devin Davis: Yeah, that I it's, know, FCA and Wyoming, as I've been a part of that is really blessed to have some great guys and a lot of great coaches in this state. And, um, that's one of the things I love wrestling. when I, when you said wrestling, I, uh, obviously I like you even more. You're a fly fisherman and a wrestler. So that's pretty cool. But, um, you know, I mean, one of the neat things about state wrestling for me is that I like to do is. Tom Grogan: Yeah. Devin Davis: ⁓ I just kind of wander around on the floor and connect with coaches, because there are so many good ones in the state and so many Christian coaches in the state. you, have you kind of found that connection to, as you've coached, ⁓ during your time at Neutrona? Tom Grogan: Absolutely, I've had some really, really cool connections. Mallory up at up in Sheridan ⁓ his coaching staff. There's a lot of really, really dynamic and good people up there. The coaching staff has also been fantastic. The coaches out of Cody have been, ⁓ I mean, gotten to know those guys. Coach McFadden actually met him at a fly fishing tournament ⁓ with Chauncey ⁓ Pinedale ⁓ just making connection and turns out like He's friends with my cousin that lives up there and his kids and my cousin's kids all hang out and you know It's just it's such a unique thing. You know, we're so spread out yet. We're so tight ⁓ such a unique state in that regard Because doesn't matter the mileage Like we've all, we all have this similar connection. ⁓ Wyoming and I tell my students all the time, it's the greatest place in the world. And ⁓ got at the center of the whole thing. And so it's amazing. Devin Davis: Amen. And yeah, it's, it's a, we, we all know that if you're from Wyoming, how big a state it is, but how small it is yet. And at, you know, at state wrestling a couple of years ago, one of your fellow coaches on staff there I ran into was, is Rick Zimmer. ⁓ and Rick is from Worland. He's my age. We played high school football against each other and I hadn't seen him, you know, probably since we graduated. So. Tom Grogan: Yeah. Devin Davis: 40 some years, but it's like your best friends still, you know, and I mean, you just have so many cool connections and that's, came over to the FCA table and JC was there and, yeah, it's, it's such a, it's such a neat thing. And, one of the things I love ⁓ and happen to see you at Eggingtons a couple of weeks ago, but, ⁓ your coach's Bible study. I lead a Bible study here in Riverton and one in Lander ⁓ as, well. Tom Grogan: Yeah. Yeah. Devin Davis: Tell us about the Bible study that, that you have going there in Casper with other coaches. Tom Grogan: Yeah, so again, you know, 19 years ago come to Casper and you know my name gets thrown around. It was like I started volunteering with FCA right away here at the high school I got a phone call ⁓ a guy named Ernie Mecca who didn't know. But he he was from Thermopolis and I said. Hmm, that's interesting. So my dad was actually, he graduated from Hot Springs High School in 1976. So I called my dad and I'm like, hey, do you know Ernie Mecca? He's like, yeah, I know Ernie. He's a phenomenal athlete. And I was like, ⁓ cool. So Ernie and I get to know each other. he's talking to me about this crazy idea that he's got about trying to have coaches Bible studies around the state. He said, do you think that you'd be willing to join one? And I said, absolutely. And so the literally, have faithfully met together. We've a few faces that have come and gone that ⁓ have over the years. But Rick and and a guy named Don Maggi ⁓ and Josh mean, right now there's nine of us ⁓ that are ⁓ our staff get together every Friday morning ⁓ at the upper room Eggington's. And. Yeah, it's been a pretty remarkable thing to grow together as men. And we say it all the time, but just as iron sharpens iron, one man sharpens another. And those meetings have been filled with laughter. They've been filled with tears and filled with a lot of prayer. And it's been a beautiful thing to be able to walk through life with guys like that. Devin Davis: What are you, what resources are you studying right now? Tom Grogan: We're going through a Kingdom sports. Study and the study that we're doing right now is over the Book of Acts and we just started. It's like the spring of 2026 and if you grill me on the questions, I don't know if I'd be able to answer him fully, but yeah, we're we're going to go through the week one study tomorrow and it's it's a lot of it has to do with the acts of the Apostles and and really building a team. Devin Davis: Yeah. Tom Grogan: ⁓ And you know, Jesus is he's like, it's it's starting by like the development of training his apostles as disciples and like really formulating the culture of the ⁓ of the Christian Church and some of the struggles that they went through and like where God fills the gaps on all of it and how it's supposed to be structured and what good teammates do and ⁓ good leadership does. And yeah, far has been really good and we've been doing those kingdom studies now for the last couple of years. So yeah, they've been they've been fantastic. Devin Davis: I think I saw also is, ⁓ is John Gerard, the leading your group now that Ernie is. Okay. Tom Grogan: He is. Yep, he is. Yep. John has been an awesome resource for us here. And I just got to know him like two months ago. ⁓ He's as as I get. Devin Davis: Mm-hmm. Yeah. John was in Chatterin when I lived in Chatterin for, for quite a while. And so we really connected there. And, I think he would tell you that, that, that was kind of his, when I came and we did FCA, that was kind of his getting his feet wet with FCA. And, ⁓ and then it's kind of been neat to see how he's grown and his wife and, and how God brought them to Casper. So, man, you, you have a, a solid group there. So, but the question is like, Tom Grogan: Okay. Devin Davis: Right. It's great that we do these Bible studies. I have about nine guys that we meet on Wednesdays here in Riverton. Most of the coaching staff, coach Lenhart and, ⁓ Watson and Henry Lynn, have a great group. And, but how does that impact you as coach? You see, the connection there as far as what I do, you know, I'm a Christian, but I'm a coach. does that ⁓ apply to you are? Tom Grogan: Mm-hmm. Well, you know, the Bible is the living word of God. And we've done studies out of, I can't say every book of the Bible, but a lot of books of the Bible, ⁓ and some them have been repeats. And it's just such an incredible thing how the Bible meets you exactly where you're at. and God speaks to you in these different ways using the same verses over and over and over again. In fact, this morning in the study, like, talks how God has to... constantly remind us and re teach us the same lessons over and over and over again. and it's not anything different than what we're doing with our kids. You know, as an old line cat coach, I have to teach the basics every single day. You know, we work stances starts at the beginning ⁓ you know, ⁓ go to an NFL football program, guess what they're doing every single day. They're working stance and starts at the beginning of practice. And so ⁓ ⁓ such a beautiful thing to just Be together and recognize like hey, let's make the priority the priority God's number one God, how can you help us make an impact where we're at right now? what things are you speaking through us that we need to speak to our kids and how do we? Really than anything Build these men into great husbands great fathers great employees or employers and great brothers and sisters and great kids for their parents. Like that is what our feeling is as coaches. And, you know, obviously the Bible is like the perfect book and the perfect teaching tool for that. And so being able to sharpen each other in those moments and through his word is where it's at. And I mean, that's the direct application literally day to day. And most of the guys on staff, we're kind of in this age where we've got anywhere from seven year olds to 15, 16, 17 year olds. And, you know, it's not just for our athletes that we're coaching, but it's also for our kids that we're raising in our homes. so all of it together, mean, it's just, you ⁓ lock arms, ⁓ the shield with your brothers. ⁓ I just really believe that that's exactly what this life is supposed to be and it's how God designed it all. Devin Davis: Yep. Yeah. You know, I think we're studying the same study that you are. yeah, I, I, I we're on week six now, but that, that teach test, right? That's what that is like. We teach it and then we test it. Right. And then obviously ⁓ fail. We're going to teach it again. Just like ⁓ many times did the apostles fail Jesus? Like ⁓ it's not, read that and you're like, well, that's me. Right. How many times has Tom Grogan: Yeah. you Yeah. Devin Davis: learned something and then I've been tested and then I like, yeah, man, I failed that. Right. ⁓ so God's faithful to come back and ⁓ give up on me and teach that lesson again. ⁓ And, so I I'm thankful that ⁓ I a God who is forgiving and merciful and graceful. And he's like, sorry, you learn the lesson, right? I'm giving up on you now. He never gives up on us. Right. And I think that's, that's, that's a cool part. Cause Tom Grogan: Yeah. Devin Davis: If he wouldn't, you if he would have given up on the apostles, who, who, knows where we would, we'd be now. mean, God is faithful and he's sovereign. So, but it is kind of a ⁓ neat reminder, that we're pretty boneheaded people really. ⁓ ⁓ I think that's, do you see a difference? mean, this is kind of putting you on the spot and I like to ask questions because I have wheels spinning on my mind. So what sets. Tom Grogan: Mm-hmm. Yep. Devin Davis: the Christian coach apart from a coach that may not be a believer or a follower of Christ is, you, and that I'm putting, again, I'm putting you on the spot, but what do you think about that? How, how, how do you, should you look different as a Christian coach than other coaches around the state who don't follow Christ? Tom Grogan: Yeah, it's purpose. I mean, like, why are you doing what you're doing? You know, and I teach a leadership class also, which is kind of a philosophy class. And yesterday we were reading a section from Man's Search for Meaning by Victor Frankel. And I don't know if you've read that book, ⁓ Frankel was a Holocaust survivor. And as he was witness in multiple ⁓ concentration what he is that people's hair, ⁓ clothes, their and even their names taken from them. And yet people still found a reason to live and live happily in a concentration camp. It's like, how in the world do you get to that point? he brings it back, it came down to like three things. It's ⁓ ⁓ finding love. ⁓ building or making something and then being able to endure suffering with a purpose. And so I think that like for me and any Christian coach is like we have to be able to understand that our calling as coaches ⁓ is beyond winning and losing football games. The game itself is a catalyst for something that's so much more. And any great coach will tell you that character is kind of like the the central theme of building a great culture But think for me and other Christian coaches, it's like ⁓ not the character It's the character that you build with your relationship with Christ ⁓ And ⁓ in to teach that character you have to model that character ⁓ and the modeling of the character is like where you're ⁓ Spending with other coaches talking about your your shortcomings and your successes ⁓ and tying it all back to one thing, which is, I drawing myself closer to Christ or am I not? And if I am, then I should be bearing some of the fruit that Paul talks about. in Galatians or all of the fruit that Paul is talking about in Galatians. And it be ⁓ something is attractive to the rest of the world. And I think, you know, as I was talking about my teenage years, every one of these kids that we're teaching, they're all asking the same questions. You know, what is my purpose? What am I doing here on this earth? And whether they want to admit it or can articulate that, I think that they're in that ⁓ spiritual transformation if you're not modeling it first and foremost, then you're never going to be able to have a conversation about it. And so that modeling piece is just critical in my opinion. But you don't get there without having to have some of difficult conversations brother to brother ⁓ sharpen each other's iron. And there's moments where we fall flat on our face. And the is, what do you do after that? Well, you accept it, you apologize for it, you address it, and then ⁓ you have teachable moment with your kids. And then you do the same thing for them. And so yeah, I the most of difference between somebody who is a Christian versus a coach who is not is the purpose behind why they're doing what they're doing. And if it's to glorify themselves and just prove, well, look at how many wins I've had and look at all the accolades and all that, none of that matters. Let's honest. ⁓ Devin Davis: Yeah. Yeah, there's, you know, my ⁓ of story is I, I would have claimed to be a Christian pretty much all of my life. ⁓ and I, and I think I was, I never was a point really where I didn't believe that Jesus was my savior and died on the cross, but I don't think I really truly ⁓ surrendered life to him ⁓ until, of halfway through my life where some stuff really got really rough. In my life, some trials, some testing. ⁓ and I just felt like God's saying, you got to decide who you're going to follow. and I think that's one of the cool things that sports does is there's a lot of trials through sports, and challenges through sports. ⁓ And, that's a great lesson to be able to teach your athletes so that when they do go through hard things in life, they don't just give up, that they continue to persevere and. and endure and, and, see that there's a, like you said, a greater purpose to life than just success on the field or wherever that, that might be. ⁓ Tom Grogan: Yeah. Well, it's interesting. I don't know if you've, if you listen to Jocko Willings podcast at all. yeah. Devin Davis: I have my son was a, is a jocowillian guy. I know who he is, but yeah. Tom Grogan: OK, yeah. So so a few is probably a month ago he came out with a podcast and the title of the podcast is Everything is a Test. And so, like, literally everything that you're doing in life is a test. And I think for us as Christians, like. we're constantly being tested and we're constantly being asked the question like, are you going to be faithful to me? And when the highs are really good, like it's pretty easy. And when the lows are really low, man, that's when you start asking the real question, like, what am I doing? Why am I here? I doing something wrong? And so having to like force yourself to recommit to... The test question is the right thing and making sure that you have people that are holding you accountable to that is absolutely critical. You know, it's one thing that is very, very apparent in the Bible and that is like even the God of the universe wasn't walking the earth by himself. You know, he had a group of people around him and he was the accountability, the ultimate accountability partner to all of them. And as other coaches, like that's really our calling to each other and to our kids and if we're willing to listen and evaluate and reflect own awareness then I think that there's just nothing but growth that can come with it. Devin Davis: Yeah. And, probably, you're to, you're to, ⁓ kind of, ruin some of the study that you're doing, but one of the awesome things is to see the apostles, you know, go guys who really were, you know, Peter at denying Jesus three times and, ⁓ and then being able when Jesus, ascended to heaven, ⁓ and he gave them the Holy spirit. is they were, you know, thrown in prison, being beaten, being mocked constantly the ⁓ Jewish priests. ⁓ And counted it, we counted to be, you know, to be beaten, to be thrown in prison because of the name of Jesus Christ. You know, it is, it is, right? And so they didn't sit... Tom Grogan: incredible. Devin Davis: feel sorry for themselves and they didn't say, no, it's not worth it to follow Jesus. Man, they dug in their heels and that's because their lives had changed. You know, that's, that's awesome. And, and think that's, don't that, isn't that an amazing thing when, when Jesus changes your heart to say, man, I want to do hard things and I want him to do, I want to do those for your glory. Right. And that's, ⁓ I Tom Grogan: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Devin Davis: You know, that's, that's, think that's where that, that, that impact really, really makes a difference, a heart difference, ⁓ that changes how we think and what our motivation is from, from here on out, whatever we do in life. But the cool thing about a Christian coach, when that happens is that influences your athletes, and your students. ⁓ and it's so cool to see how that happened through Randy. And I, I'm still kind of questioning. You know, your, your choice of influences in your life a little bit. although I always laugh at, ⁓ FCA camp in the summertime, he still stops by the wrestling room and still likes to scrap with the guys in there. I was like, isn't that incredible? So, yeah. Tom Grogan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's awesome. Well, it's interesting that you say that. And I want to tie back to that just a little bit. crazy amount of success in Sioux Falls. Like, it was insane. I come back to NC. My first three games we lose. Like, I was used to losing like the very last game of the season when I was at the University of Sioux Falls. And then we go 0 and 3 at NC. Devin Davis: Yeah. Tom Grogan: I called Kailin and I was like, I don't know if I can do this. And he's like, what are you talking about? I was like, we're 0-3 right now. He's like, well, Tom, you just got to have to figure it out. Well, we ended up like, we were OK that year. We were OK in 2008. 2009, we were 2-9. And one of my best friends who's the linebackers coach at University of Alabama. He calls me and he's like, well, you're to have to figure out who you are and why you're doing what you're doing. And I think that's the ultimate test. If you were to take the wins and losses out or you were only to replace it with losses, would you still do the job? Would you still be a faithful servant to Christ and still pour into the kids? And I'll tell you, that group of kids in 2009, I still talk to a lot of those kids to this day. man, you want to talk about like your perspective shifting. At that that I knew that God had put something different in me and I had to pour my heart and soul out to these boys that were becoming men right before me. And there were lot of tears after a lot of games. I think we lost two games in double overtime and two games in regular overtime that season. And our point total, actually scored more points than our opponent. But we lost every game by like one or two scores. And it was just, it was the hardest year that I've ever had as a coach. But it was the most rewarding year that I had as a mentor for Christ. I just like, I've got to remind myself of that. The last couple of years have been kind of rough for us here at Natrona. And it's not why I'm doing it. I'm not doing it for the wins. Devin Davis: Yeah. Yeah. Hey man, that's, you know, I, I'm just thinking when you were talking about your ⁓ only one game when I was a senior at Riverton, but ⁓ I to point out that was against Worland where Rick Zimmer played. So ⁓ one that year, but man, was, ⁓ you again, I mean, ⁓ I, would, I wouldn't Tom Grogan: I'll make sure and let him know. Devin Davis: I'd go back and do that over again, just because ⁓ of the lessons I learned and the friends you develop and, things like that. But man, there it's, it's really neat to, to help. to mentor coaches. ⁓ and you've had mentors in your life because I just think it completely train transforms the way you look at your sport. And I mean, it sounds ⁓ yeah, you connect with that very well. Do you, would you say that, you know, in the years that you've been coaching, Tom Grogan: Yeah. Devin Davis: It is coaching different now than it was when you started, uh, 19 years ago. Tom Grogan: Yeah. funny. Well, like four or five years ago, a lot of the guys that were on staff in the Toronto were guys that coached me in the ⁓ 90s. And yeah, want to talk about a different way of handling things. I was telling Coach Harjit, I can vividly remember coaches grabbing me by the face mask and screaming, you know, that wouldn't fly today. Devin Davis: Yo, hey man, man. Ha ha. Tom Grogan: And probably it's probably a good thing. but yeah, I mean, I think that the, coaching world has changed significantly, but I will tell you that there is one thing that has not changed, you know, of all of like the, you know, every generation for as long as you can remember. I mean, in the first, at the beginning of the chapter, like the introductory, it talked about, I think, I think that this was the same study talks about, ⁓ like for generations all the way back to like the Roman times. The elders had always complained about the youth ⁓ doing, not being tough as them and not being able to grow through all this stuff. That has never changed and will never change. ⁓ We as the old guys now are the ones that are going to be complaining about these young kids. But I will say, I think every person actually likes to be challenged. Everybody has that thing inside of them that says like, can and want to endure something. And if you have really good leadership, Devin Davis: Yeah Tom Grogan: Kids are willing to go as many miles as you push them. that, would say, is one of the beautiful things that I've seen year after year with some of these kids. And now it's like I've been coaching for long enough that I'm starting to see some the kids that I coached at the beginning now have kids that are coming into high school, which is a strange thing, which is pretty Devin Davis: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point. Right. I think a lot of times we do talk like that at, our, in our Bible studies is like, you know, kids are a lot softer nowadays than they used to be. And, you know, and, and, I, sometimes I think maybe that's a little true, but the kids, I mean, that really, I think challenging them and holding them to a higher standard. That's the other thing. I don't know if you did that study. did you study the minor profits last year? Tom Grogan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we did that in the fall. Devin Davis: Yeah. Like, yep. And that's what we did. Yeah. So we are on the same study, but like what we learned out of that, what we took out of that is the standard is the standard. Tom Grogan: Standard's the standard. Yep. Devin Davis: You know, and so you can't change that standard. You know, this is, and, and, and, and I loved that and, and still have several of the coaches that will text me or they read an article and you know, it's about the standard, coach Watson's, wrestling coach and Lander. he sent me an interview today, with, with, David Taylor, the coach at Oklahoma state. ⁓ and they were talking about, is, these are our standards. Tom Grogan: Okay. Devin Davis: You know, and, and, and this is what the kids, know, we're going to set it here and the kids are either going to do, you know, rise up to that standard or we're not the program for them. ⁓ and so I think that's, you know, that's an important thing is we, we have to have those and God has those standards for us to, you know, reading that that's, you know, these are, these are God's standards and I, and I can't, live any lower than that. I mean, that should be my ultimate goal and I'm going to fail, right? More times than I succeed probably, but I can't, ⁓ that's thing, right? Is when we're reading the Bible is this is what he wants us to live like. And, and so I think that's the important part too, is the standard is the standard. think it was Mike Tomlin who said that if I remember correctly, but I, you know, that's Tom Grogan: Yeah. Yeah. Devin Davis: never changes, right? ⁓ shouldn't anyways. The standard is always the standard. So, so that this has been been awesome and I go on forever. Connected with you. One thing I just wanted to, before we close, you know, you before I, I kind of skipped past it, but I want you to tell us about your family, your, your marriage, your kids, ⁓ being a father, being husband. Tell us about Tom Grogan and those roles. Tom Grogan: Sure. I my high school sweetheart. She went to ⁓ the side of town. ⁓ She graduated from Kelly Walsh. But she a converted Mustang in Philly now, I'll just tell you that. Full circle. But yeah, she and I, ⁓ on our own decisions, ⁓ both decided to to the University of Sioux Falls. And we were there. Devin Davis: Yeah. ⁓ you Tom Grogan: senior year and ⁓ knew that we wanted to have kids but we didn't have kids until a little bit later and so my son right now is a ⁓ and you to talk about a crazy trip having him in my freshman history class this year was was something else and so yeah he's ⁓ he's he's a freshman and my daughter is a sixth grader over at CUI middle school and you know like my wife and I you know we're She's my best friend and we do as much life as we can together and communicate so incredibly well. And God has been the absolute center of what we do. as an anthropology teacher as well, part of my thing is in ⁓ culture, ⁓ kind of lost track of this initiation rite of passage into manhood. And so I was really intentional with my son. ⁓ And I've talked to a couple of other coaches about this process about kind of a transition. You go from middle school into high school. I wanted to have some sort of rite of passage for my son. so he's ⁓ through his freshman year right now. over last year, we've read ⁓ books We've been doing ⁓ father-son studies together once a week. We had an entire year of physical challenges every month from 20 mile bike rides to trying to see if we can get 20 continuous pull ups one month to 3000 pushups. It was just awesome stuff. like God has been in the center of all of that. And it's been really cool seeing how God has worked through me and some other coaches with that respect. And because of the brotherhood that we have, it's like we're talking to each other about, I did this with my son. You should try this with your son. And that aspect has been a really, really amazing thing. And my wife is going to do something very similar with our daughter. And so yeah, like our family, man, we're just trying to be as tight as we can. And I just feel so fortunate. I've got two amazing kids and an even better wife. Couldn't be happier. Sometimes I pinch myself. How did I get this lucky? Geez wheeze. Lord, you bless me so much. Devin Davis: That. ⁓ I've said this on a couple other podcasts, but one of the books I read with a bunch of our high school students, guys, is a book by Joby Martin called Stand Firm. be a good one for you to read with your son, it does talk about biblical manhood. ⁓ And ⁓ the I about that was kind of like what you said is like, what makes a man? Tom Grogan: Yeah. Devin Davis: It's different all around the world and different cultures. ⁓ but it's pretty clear in, the Bible, what, what a man is. so the stand firm was a great one. We just finished that and pretty short, easy to read. So I learned a lot from that as, as well. And just, you know, putting on the full armor of God. I mean, he talks about that all the time because our battle is in against flesh and blood and, just, you ⁓ realizing that spiritual battle that we go through is. as men leading our families, loving our wives well. And then it talks about love. I mean, you know, when you say the word man, you don't really think about love a lot of times, right? ⁓ But that agape, unconditional sacrificial love ⁓ is, you know, just transforms ⁓ we are ⁓ how we treat our marriages and our children and in our jobs. So ⁓ it's Tom Grogan: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Devin Davis: It's really cool to see that. love that because I, I interviewed Boone Froude, ⁓ we did a few weeks ago and, and just learning about his family and about Aaron and they kind of do the same, same type of thing is, you know, this outdoor kind of, right of passage type of thing. And so it's really neat to, to see that. Tom Grogan: Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think that everybody has choices to make in their life. when I was a kid, I really thought that I was going to be a computer scientist. That's what I wanted to do. But I was totally ⁓ not to what God had for me. ⁓ And just really passionate about... trying to get kids to listen to what God is calling them to do because everybody's got different gifts and different talents. And if we're not obedient to what those talents are, it's like you kind of forget or maybe don't even realize why you're here on this earth. And I think to align with like all of the things that Christ has done for us and continues to do for us, that obedience factor is such an important part of our journey on this earth and in our relationship with him. And so ⁓ don't know, like that's been the thing that's been weighing the heaviest on my mind here the last few days. And so yeah, for all the listeners out there, it's like you can get caught up in a lot of things. And ⁓ bottom is Christ has got a plan for you. ⁓ And the thing you have to do is be obedient to it. Devin Davis: Amen. Yep. Just trust and believe, right? And, ⁓ that's, that's a big part of that. Well, that's, that's great. Tom, it's awesome to spend time with you and look forward to meeting you in person. the one thing that I want to do before we close out is I just, we always try to end this in a prayer. So if you want to join me in a prayer, that would be, be cool. So let me take my hat off here and we'll go ahead and pray. Father, we just are blown away by how good you are to us, how much you've blessed us. Father, in all the challenges, the ups and downs, to know that you are always faithful, you are always good, you are working for our good as well as if we love you and follow you and trust you. Thank you for men like Tom, who their families well, who are great mentors, role models. The, the occupation, position of coaching not an easy one. There's challenges, that, that we, as coaches all battle through is all go and go through. mean, kids are different, but thank you for the lessons that you've taught him, the impact that he's having. I just pray that, coaches who are listening to this, if they're not believers, ⁓ it can just of hear in Tom's voice and in his witness, message that he spoke that everything has changed or changed in his life when he submitted, surrendered to you and it's changed how he's coached, how he impacts his athletes, his students. Thank you, God, for your goodness and your glory. pray, Father, for anybody listened to this. that is seeking, Father, seeking direction in their lives, seeking purpose in their lives. Father, that they would trust in you, that they would just put your Spirit into their heart and live to glorify you. We thank you for FCA, the people that it's impacted. just pray for its ministry ⁓ the state of Wyoming. ⁓ summer, as we go to camp in Laramie, And thank you so much for so many volunteers and coaches that spend their time, like Tom does, to spread the gospel. We just give you all thanks for your blessing in your son, Jesus. That's the main thing. Help us to keep our eyes ⁓ you off of things that are worthless and on glorifying you. And it's in your holy name, we pray. Amen. Thank you so much. That's been awesome. Tom Grogan: Amen. Devin Davis: you just have great rest of your day. We'll have this out in a couple of days and you can be famous. ⁓ betcha have a good day. Thank you. Tom Grogan: so much Devon, I appreciate the time man. Yeah, yep. Devin Davis: All right. ⁓ thanks again, everybody for listening. And that was Tom Grogan again, and, a great conversation. hopefully it's been encouraging to you as it was to me, so many good things that were said, just fills my heart with joy. and it's, it's so exciting and, ⁓ coaches the state. ⁓ I that is just such ⁓ a word of encouragement. And man, we, we coach, or you coach because you love the sport, but There is a higher and greater purpose. We want our athletes to be as successful as they can to try to make an impact. But, like Tom said, you know, ultimately it's what type of men, what type of women are, are we, pouring into and are we shaping and, and, ⁓ really it's God shaping through us. And so that's, that's the challenge out there for all you coaches. ⁓ All you athletes who want to be coaches and that's what changes things in our schools, in our communities, in our state. So it's been a great interview and I sure appreciate you tuning in today. again, we got some exciting guests lined up for down the road and, ⁓ thanks for that little break that we took with the 307 podcast. know faxing will be back here next time. So, ⁓ thanks again, tune in, to Spotify to YouTube. To our social media follow us share us. We appreciate your support. So thanks again everybody. Have a great day. God bless