Latest / The Kenny Report / The Kenny Report | 26 October

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The Kenny Report | 26 October · The Kenny Report

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: This is The Kenny Report.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: Welcome to another week here on The Kenny Report. Tonight,
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: in the wake of the Helen Haynes horror, we'll focus
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: on vile threats and abuse in politics and political violence.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Where are we heading?
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: I'll share exclusive insights from former opposition leader Peter Dutton,
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: who'll join me live. The Snowy Hydro disaster confirmed a
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: $ 40 billion battery, but Energy Minister Chris Bowen still tries
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: to justify it, while polls show that voters prefer reliable power.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: I'll cross to Paris, where Sophie Ellsworth will have the
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: latest on the riots, plus the Victorian Liberals surging with
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: election day just a month away. Caroline de Russo and
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: Christy McSweeney are on the panel.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Let's get into it.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: The member for Indi, Helen Haynes, remains in hospital, thankfully alive.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: in a stable condition, her legs amputated, her fight far
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: from over, her life never to.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Be the same again.
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  Speaker 2: The unthinkably cruel and cowardly attack on her a week
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: ago today remains a challenge for our politics. As well
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: as an MP and community leader, Haynes is a wife,
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: a mother, a grandmother, she has brothers, friends, a full life,
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  Speaker 2: and it was almost stolen through a brutal episode inflicting
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: immense pain and suffering and tragically compromising everything for her
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: in the future. In federal parliament, this human toll was
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: evident as speaker after speaker shared their personal insights and
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: pain with Haynes' husband, Phil, there to hear some of
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: the tributes, prayers and good wishes firsthand.
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  Speaker 3: I've been going around in circles in my head, trying
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: to express everything I want to say.
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: We are all struggling.
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: To process the shock and grief at what has happened.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: For all the emotion, the focus turned quickly again to
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: what this horrible incident says about whether our politics are
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: getting more vitriolic, more violent. Some politicians have now gone
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: public about threats that in the past would have been
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: kept quiet. The Victorian Police Minister, Paul Edbrook, found a
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: bullet on his car on the weekend with the word
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: rat scratched onto it. The Prime Minister has chosen this
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: moment to double down on his campaign to somehow tame
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: the digital jungle of social media.
• 2:37
  Speaker 5: While the investigations go on, we must not rush to conclusions.
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  Speaker 5: But nor can we shrug off the very real rise
• 2:43
  Speaker 5: in anger that distorts and corrodes our public discourse. enabled
• 2:49
  Speaker 5: by the anonymity and speed afforded by social media, we
• 2:53
  Speaker 5: are seeing rage and aggression increasing, not just in politics,
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  Speaker 5: but towards workers in hospitality and retail, in schools and
• 3:01
  Speaker 5: in hospitals, towards police, paramedics and other officials. We are
• 3:07
  Speaker 5: seeing a normalisation of the language of grievance and violence.
• 3:12
  Speaker 5: We must not conflate the robustness of Australian democracy with
• 3:17
  Speaker 5: this rising tide of rage.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: Coming from a similar place, Angus Taylor has a different emphasis.
• 3:25
  Speaker 6: The attack on Helen Haynes was an attack on a
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  Speaker 6: Member of Parliament. And the attack on a Member of Parliament,
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  Speaker 6: our Parliament, is an attack on our democracy. Of all days,
• 3:38
  Speaker 6: today is a day to reflect on our democracy. In
• 3:43
  Speaker 6: the past week, it's been suggested by some There is
• 3:45
  Speaker 6: a causal connection between robust parliamentary debate and political violence.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: I disagree with this view.
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  Speaker 6: Our democratic system has served us well, from our colonies,
• 3:58
  Speaker 6: through to Federation, through to the present day. The Westminster
• 4:03
  Speaker 6: system is about settling differences through robust and rigorous debate.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: Not violence.
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  Speaker 2: Few would disagree with any of the sentiments expressed today,
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: even if we see some politics being played as Anthony
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: Albanese seeks to push his digital duty of care bill.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: Whatever you think.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: About whether governments ever could or should control what people
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: communicate online, the impact of the digital world and the
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: superiority of the real world was alluded to by Andrew Hastie.
• 4:36
  Speaker 7: We need more good neighbours like Ricky Jefferies. who are
• 4:39
  Speaker 7: more bonded to their local community and less consumed by
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  Speaker 7: the fiery utterances of the false community online. Ricky knew
• 4:47
  Speaker 7: the first responders helping Helen because he cut their hair,
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  Speaker 7: not because of social media networks. And there's something in that.
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  Speaker 7: We thrive as a nation when we are in community
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  Speaker 7: with our neighbours, when we are known by them and
• 4:59
  Speaker 7: they are known by us. Because if we want to
• 5:01
  Speaker 7: keep Australian democracy, we need more Australians like Helen Haynes
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  Speaker 7: and Ricky Jeffries who show us what it is to
• 5:08
  Speaker 7: be a good neighbour.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I reckon the less people have to do with
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  Speaker 2: social media and the more they have to do with
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  Speaker 2: real people, the better. But that's not an issue for
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: governments to solve. That's for parents and for responsible adults.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: And the AFP Commissioner stated the obvious yesterday when talking
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: about threats of violence online or otherwise.
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  Speaker 8: But at the end of the day, these are criminal offences.
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  Speaker 8: People need to be... There needs to be consequences. People
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  Speaker 8: need to be charged and they need to be.
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  Speaker 1: Put before the courts. I couldn't agree more.
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  Speaker 2: But I think the main problem here, the one that's
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: not being addressed by the Commissioner or the politicians, the
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: one being deliberately avoided by most of them, is the
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: lack of action we've seen in recent years against obvious
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: and open threats and abuse. Listen to more from the
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: Commissioner on whether the horrible alleged attack on Haynes should
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: be a turning point.
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  Speaker 8: I think it absolutely has to be. And I said
• 6:07
  Speaker 8: that the other day in my media conference. You know,
• 6:10
  Speaker 8: my hope is that this really causes people to pause
• 6:13
  Speaker 8: and have a think about what's happening in this country
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  Speaker 8: and the impact of that. And if this is not
• 6:18
  Speaker 8: the incident, then what is? We should all be stopping
• 6:22
  Speaker 8: and thinking about our role that we play in this.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you when I saw a turning point,
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: I can be precise, and it was a turning point
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: in the wrong direction. It was on October the 9th,
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: three years ago, in 2023, when an angry pro-Palestinian and
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: anti-Israel mob marched under police escort from Sydney Town Hall
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: to the Opera House, where they chanted, F the Jews
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  Speaker 2: and Where's the Jews? And even worse, to the ears
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  Speaker 2: of many. No one was hauled in for questioning. No
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: one was arrested. No one was charged. That was the
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: moment this country seemed to give up on tackling hate
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: speech and threats. The Prime Minister just tut-tutted and moved on.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: And so we saw it escalate day after day, week
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: after week. Protests that included unrestrained hatred, sometimes open support
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: for terrorist groups, chants of intifada, chants for death, all
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  Speaker 2: the way up to Bondi last December when 15 innocent
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: people were murdered and dozens more injured. Want a turning point, Commissioner?
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: I think you've seen plenty. We need less commentary from
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: the AFP and more arrests. Have a listen to this
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: as the Commissioner fails to mention the years of open
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: hatred on our streets and instead shifts the focus to
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: political debate.
• 7:56
  Speaker 8: We do see where there is particular political conflict or
• 8:02
  Speaker 8: discourse occurring. Yes, it does. It does have a direct
• 8:06
  Speaker 8: correlation to what we see in terms of threats and abuse.
• 8:09
  Speaker 8: And sometimes it's very immediate.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: Now, again, to be clear, we all want better debate.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: We all want civil debate and we all oppose threats
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: and abuse.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: But what about the deliberate blind spots here?
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: The ABC TV host David Spears wanted to press the
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: police commissioner about examples of political discourse that could lead
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: to violence. So what do you think he referenced? Do
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: you reckon he'd highlight an ABC favourite, Grace Tame, who
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: was paid by the ABC to host podcasts and who
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: called for violent insurrection in this way?
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  Speaker 9: Gadigal to Gaza, globalise the intifada.
• 8:53
  Speaker 10: One more time, from Gadigal to Gaza, globalise the intifada.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: No, surprise, surprise, Spears didn't mention Tame. So do you
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: think he might have mentioned the Indigenous firebrand senator from Victoria?
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  Speaker 11: This is a war!
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: They are still killing us!
• 9:23
  Speaker 12: They are still stealing our babies!
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  Speaker 11: They are killing our men! And they are still raping
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  Speaker 11: our women!
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: No, the ABC didn't ask about Lydia Thorpe's impact on
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: political debate.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: So I know what you're thinking.
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  Speaker 2: Surely Spears would have mentioned the anti-One Nation protests that
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: have seen young people openly and repeatedly calling for violence
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: against Pauline Hanson. What would you do if Pauline Hanson
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: were here today?
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  Speaker 8: I'm not.
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  Speaker 11: I would f * * * ing shoot her. I
• 10:05
  Speaker 11: would f * * * ing hit her in front.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: Of the man.
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  Speaker 11: It's like, beat her the f * * * up!
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  Speaker 13: Kill her!
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  Speaker 4: I'll bring out the guillotine, I think.
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  Speaker 2: Shame, fascists!
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  Speaker 8: Shame!
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  Speaker 14: Die, Nazi scum!
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  Speaker 8: Shame, Pauline!
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  Speaker 4: Shame!
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  Speaker 2: Die, Pauline, you sick.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: Ah, no, Spears didn't use those examples of political hatred either. OK,
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: what do you think he used? Perhaps he used the
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: Opera House example and the pro-Palestinian protesters flying Islamist terrorist
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: symbols or chanting for Intifada, in other words, more terrorism,
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: chanting for it even while on Bondi Beach, just months
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: before Australia's worst-ever terror attack at that very place.
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  Speaker 11: No, the ABC did not point to that hatred either.
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  Speaker 2: No, after all this hatred has been running amok in
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  Speaker 2: this country, directed at Australians who are Jewish and others,
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: with no obvious clampdown by the federal government or law
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: enforcement agencies or our political class, after all that, the
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: example of dangerous discourse that Spears highlighted was a One
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: Nation cartoon from years ago that involved car ramming because
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: it played off the real-life car accident involving former... Victorian
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: Premier Daniel Andrews and a cyclist.
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  Speaker 15: I've got to ask, do things like a cartoon that
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  Speaker 15: suggests someone should be hit by a car or something
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  Speaker 15: like that, does that have a direct link?
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  Speaker 1: Is that what you're talking about?
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  Speaker 8: We do see examples where there are particular announcements or,
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  Speaker 8: you know, things like you've just described. There is a
• 11:56
  Speaker 8: reaction amongst the community.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: There you have it, Australia.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: We've had the worst terror attack in this nation's history,
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  Speaker 2: claiming 15 lives. We've had an MP allegedly moaned down
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: outside her electorate office. We've had more than three years
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: of calls for intifada, the elimination of Israel from the
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: river to the sea, chants of where's the Jews and
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: the flying of terrorist emblems, while our Prime Minister.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: Has called these protests peaceful.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: We've had schoolchildren calling for the killing of Pauline Hanson.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: All this nastiness coming from what we loosely call the
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: hard political left. And all the while police standing back
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: and watching. But the national broadcaster and leftist politicians tell
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: us the real problem is a satirical cartoon. That, my friends,
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: that right there, is why I reckon this country is
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: in much more than economic strife. Now, no political party
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: is the font of all wisdom and no political party.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: Is wrong on anything, on everything either.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: But when you have one issue that activates large numbers
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: of the general public and unites Liberals, Nationals, One Nation, Teals,
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: Greens and Labor, then they might be on to something.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: So it was yesterday when a rally was held in
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: Sydney to oppose the Albanese Labor government's proposed sell-off of
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: the historic Victoria Barracks at Paddington, just east of the CBD.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: A kaleidoscope of politicians was there, including state Labor MPs
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: opposing Canberra. This wasn't your usual ratbag protest group. There
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: were no calls for violence here, no effigies burned or
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: threats made. Just a broad cross-section who want a critical
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: part of the nation's built heritage and military history kept
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: in the hands of Defence. Federal Labor plans to flog
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: off this site and move the military brass to Canberra,
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: leased office space in the city. Built for British troops
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: in the 1840s, the barracks became military headquarters for the
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: Federated Nation at the turn of the century. In the
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: First World War, troops were marshalled there and marched down
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: to the docks to sail to war on the other
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: side of the world. So it's little wonder that such
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: a variety of Australians and politicians want to preserve the barracks.
• 14:32
  Speaker 16: We have every single political party represented and that is
• 14:36
  Speaker 16: the point. We are all here. We are all here
• 14:39
  Speaker 16: waving our flag and sending a message to the Prime
• 14:43
  Speaker 16: Minister that it is time to walk back from this.
• 14:46
  Speaker 16: You do have an opportunity to walk back from this
• 14:48
  Speaker 16: and this is a call to action that we have today.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: The event even drew out former Prime Minister John Howard,
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: who showed his customary political wisdom. Instead of challenging Anthony Albanese,
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: he offered a graceful outcome.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: I haven't come here to bag the government.
• 15:04
  Speaker 13: I've come here to represent, I think, the feelings of
• 15:07
  Speaker 13: many Australians. So please, Prime Minister, if he intervenes and overrules,
• 15:17
  Speaker 13: makes it clear, I'll be the first to go on
• 15:20
  Speaker 13: 2GB and congratulate him. No holds barred, no mucking around,
• 15:27
  Speaker 13: no point scoring. There won't be any gloating about him
• 15:29
  Speaker 13: backing down. It will not be a back down, it
• 15:32
  Speaker 13: will be a victory for common sense.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: Indeed, this is a decision that has little to do
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: with partisan politics. It's just a dumb idea dreamt up
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: by some bean counter somewhere. Albanese and his Defence Minister
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: Richard Miles ought to step in.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: And style themselves as the saviours.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: Of the barracks rather than its wreckers. Some terrible news
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: out of the Middle East over the weekend that many
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: of you might not even have heard about. At least
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: nine people have been shot dead and 40 injured in
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: an Islamist terrorist attack against a Greek Orthodox church in Jordan.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: Here's some reporting from America's ABC.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: We won't show you the worst of it, but a warning,
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: this is confronting footage.
• 16:19
  Speaker 17: This is the moment a horrific and unprecedented terror attack
• 16:22
  Speaker 17: unfolded at a Greek Orthodox church in Jordan. A chilling
• 16:26
  Speaker 17: surveillance video shows three gunmen opening fire in the city
• 16:29
  Speaker 17: of Karak, where mourners were gathering for a funeral. Dozens
• 16:33
  Speaker 17: outside ducking as the gunfire erupted, then scrambling for cover
• 16:37
  Speaker 17: inside as the attackers moved in. Victims falling to the
• 16:40
  Speaker 17: ground as the gunmen tried forcing their way in, eventually
• 16:44
  Speaker 17: storming inside, opening fire before escaping. Jordan's King Abdullah II
• 16:48
  Speaker 17: visiting the wounded at the hospital tonight and vowing retaliation.
• 16:52
  Speaker 17: The government says the attack was carried out by extremists,
• 16:55
  Speaker 17: but there was no claim of responsibility. And late tonight,
• 16:58
  Speaker 17: the hunt for those attackers is still underway.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: The Jordanian government says it has no tolerance for Islamist extremism. Jordan,
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: of course, is a Muslim nation, the one-time home to many,
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: if not most, Palestinians. So a key question today is,
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: why has most of our media ignored.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: This shocking story?
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: There's been very little coverage on the taxpayer-funded ABC, but
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: in the report that I found, the ABC fails to
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: mention that these were Islamist terrorists, preferring to mention just
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: gunmen and extremism. This is an important story for a
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: number of reasons.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: It highlights yet again.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: The extent of Islamist extremism and terrorism in the Middle
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: East and the diabolical challenge it represents.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: It also shows the.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: Horrific threat that exists for non-Muslims from radical Islam. In
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: this case, Christians are the victims. Greek Orthodox families gathered
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: for a funeral, yet most global media has averted their eyes.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: Perhaps they were too busy demonising Israel for daring to
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: defend itself. This is an abomination, another case of Islamist
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: terrorists killing innocent people, Christians in this case, to further
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: their evil aim of eliminating anyone and everyone who doesn't
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: subscribe to their ideology. Yet the world prefers to ignore it.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: When will we wake up? Let's return to the issue
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: of threats and violence against politicians and the tenor of
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: public debate. One former politician who's seen these issues from
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: every angle and more than most is former Home Affairs
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: Minister and former Opposition Leader Peter Dutton, who joins me
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: live in the studio.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: Good to see you, Peter. Chris, great to be here.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: Thanks, mate. Tell us about what you have seen over
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: the past week. Of course, everyone was shocked and horrified
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: by what happened to Helen Haynes, but are you surprised
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: that we've seen the manifestation of political violence in this country?
• 19:01
  Speaker 15: Well, it's obviously an horrific attack, which everybody's rightly acknowledged,
• 19:04
  Speaker 15: and Helen, you know, is still going through the most
• 19:08
  Speaker 15: agonising of experiences.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: It came as no.
• 19:11
  Speaker 15: Surprise to me, I'm sorry to say. I think it's
• 19:13
  Speaker 15: been building for a long period of time. I think
• 19:15
  Speaker 15: the level of anger, particularly since the Bondi attack, has
• 19:19
  Speaker 15: really elevated temperatures. And I also think the fact that
• 19:22
  Speaker 15: we've abandoned the principle of adhering to the rule of
• 19:25
  Speaker 15: law online, as we do in real society, has led
• 19:29
  Speaker 15: to red lines being crossed on university campuses and elsewhere.
• 19:32
  Speaker 15: And it's allowed a different debate, a different sense of
• 19:36
  Speaker 15: reality for people. And the social media companies have completely
• 19:39
  Speaker 15: abrogated their responsibilities. So I think we've been building to
• 19:42
  Speaker 15: this point. The question is what happens from here. And
• 19:46
  Speaker 15: I do very much fear that there will be further attacks.
• 19:49
  Speaker 15: And we've seen it. in the US and the UK
• 19:51
  Speaker 15: and in other Western democracies. And it's inevitable that we
• 19:54
  Speaker 15: see further attacks here.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: You've experienced this firsthand.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: You've had close, you had as a politician, close personal
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: protection for a decade or more. There is someone facing
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: charges now for a threatened attack against your family.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: We won't say much about that. It's before the courts.
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: You've had vile online abuse at yourself and your family.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: Tell us about where does this stem from? What are
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: the threats against you? Where do you know they stem from?
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: What issues, what factors have driven them?
• 20:24
  Speaker 15: Well, we're in, I suppose, a unique position in some
• 20:27
  Speaker 15: ways because I had you know, cancelled more visas than
• 20:31
  Speaker 15: any immigration minister or home affairs minister since Federation. And
• 20:34
  Speaker 15: we had a real concentration on outlaw motorcycle gangs and
• 20:38
  Speaker 15: people who were involved in distribution of drugs, had a
• 20:40
  Speaker 15: particular focus on exporting or deporting those criminals who'd been
• 20:45
  Speaker 15: involved in sexual offences, particularly against children, but women as well.
• 20:49
  Speaker 15: And in those circumstances, they're sort of akin to a
• 20:52
  Speaker 15: family court matter where people are being deported from our country.
• 20:55
  Speaker 15: They're going to be estranged from their families here. And
• 20:58
  Speaker 15: they become very angry about that. So there's a retribution
• 21:01
  Speaker 15: that they would seek, and particularly outlaw motorcycle gangs are
• 21:05
  Speaker 15: vicious people, as we know. And that's where my threat
• 21:09
  Speaker 15: predominantly arose from. And normally the Prime Minister and the
• 21:13
  Speaker 15: Governor-General would have full-time security. An opposition leader gets full-time
• 21:17
  Speaker 15: security when the writs are issued prior to an election campaign.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: But we'd had that full-time for 10 or 11 years.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: So Look, it's invasive.
• 21:26
  Speaker 15: The Australian Federal Police do incredible work and have great
• 21:28
  Speaker 15: respect for your family, but you're very conscious of it
• 21:33
  Speaker 15: and particularly conscious of it for your family when you're
• 21:35
  Speaker 15: not at home and they're there by themselves. It's very confronting.
• 21:40
  Speaker 15: And then you go to the random attacks, seemingly, and
• 21:44
  Speaker 15: this matters now obviously before the courts with Helen Haynes,
• 21:48
  Speaker 15: but people who can use a vehicle, use a knife,
• 21:51
  Speaker 15: there's an opportunity aspect to it as well that they
• 21:53
  Speaker 15: see somebody they recognise and on the spur of the
• 21:57
  Speaker 15: moment decide to undertake an attack. It's a difficult issue
• 22:02
  Speaker 15: for the Federal Police to recognise and to respond to.
• 22:05
  Speaker 15: But I agree with Angus Taylor in terms of the
• 22:07
  Speaker 15: response of the courts. When you look at some of
• 22:09
  Speaker 15: the penalties that have been imposed, they've been woefully inadequate
• 22:12
  Speaker 15: and send a very poor message of deterrence to others
• 22:15
  Speaker 15: who might be thinking of doing the same. What's your
• 22:17
  Speaker 15: evidence that it's getting worse? Well, as Home Affairs Minister,
• 22:21
  Speaker 15: I was acutely aware of the advice from the agencies,
• 22:24
  Speaker 15: in particular ASIO. The fact that some young person now
• 22:28
  Speaker 15: can be radicalised online within a matter of days if
• 22:31
  Speaker 15: they're sitting in front of a TV or a computer monitor,
• 22:34
  Speaker 15: just constantly being bombarded, being peppered with propaganda. They can
• 22:39
  Speaker 15: be convinced to strap on a vest and go into
• 22:42
  Speaker 15: a shopping centre or a movie theatre. They can be
• 22:46
  Speaker 15: convinced that Australian... you know, government policy or politicians are
• 22:53
  Speaker 15: to blame for international affairs and what we're seeing in
• 22:56
  Speaker 15: the Middle East at the moment and all sorts of
• 22:58
  Speaker 15: other conspiracies. So it does manifest itself online. And as
• 23:02
  Speaker 15: I say, it's a lawless jungle at the moment. And
• 23:05
  Speaker 15: the rule of law should apply, as it does in
• 23:09
  Speaker 15: our streets,.. the environment online. And at the moment, it's
• 23:13
  Speaker 15: very hard to enforce that. Yeah, just give me more
• 23:16
  Speaker 15: on that.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: And we all agree that threats of violence and the
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: like are repulsive. They're actually illegal, right? But what you're
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: saying is that the digital giants themselves should be able
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: to police them, either block this sort of content or
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: feed the information through to authorities.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: Well, I'll give you an example.
• 23:33
  Speaker 15: We work very closely with the Trump administration, Mark One,
• 23:36
  Speaker 15: with Bill Barr at that time, who was the Attorney-General...
• 23:39
  Speaker 15: and with my UK counterpart, the Home Office Minister in
• 23:43
  Speaker 15: the UK as well, we tried to work very closely
• 23:46
  Speaker 15: with Facebook and Apple and others because these crime groups
• 23:52
  Speaker 15: were distributing pornography, particularly graphic images of children being sexually
• 23:58
  Speaker 15: abused online. The companies would have no bar whatsoever of
• 24:03
  Speaker 15: supporting us in allowing warrants to be executed and that
• 24:08
  Speaker 15: a discovery of the transmission of those images. They protected
• 24:14
  Speaker 15: them because their claim was that these are encrypted messages
• 24:16
  Speaker 15: and they can't be discovered. If the federal police had
• 24:19
  Speaker 15: evidence that individuals or a crime gang were distributing or
• 24:23
  Speaker 15: selling images of children being sexually abused and there was
• 24:26
  Speaker 15: an envelope handed over in the park of a local community,
• 24:31
  Speaker 15: When they executed the warrant, they would expect the rule
• 24:33
  Speaker 15: of law to be adhered to, that the photographs or
• 24:36
  Speaker 15: the images would be handed over according to the court warrant,
• 24:40
  Speaker 15: that people would be prosecuted for possession of those images
• 24:44
  Speaker 15: or the transference of those issues.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: But it doesn't apply online.
• 24:48
  Speaker 15: And so it becomes this lawless society where people can
• 24:51
  Speaker 15: convince themselves that they can act out through hateful messages
• 24:55
  Speaker 15: and the dissemination of information and propaganda otherwise that leads
• 24:59
  Speaker 15: to these attacks.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: So more should happen there.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: I'm very keen also, and I think everybody would agree
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: with that, that this shouldn't be a lawless realm, especially
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: when it comes to threats of violence. What about what
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: we've seen publicly in this country over more than three
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: years now?
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: People chanting, where's the Jews?
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: And celebrating murder and chanting intifada and globalising it.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: Hasn't this been threatening?
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: And when people have seen that none of this stuff
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: has actually led to any prosecutions... Doesn't that give them
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: licence to go further, including online?
• 25:31
  Speaker 15: Well, Chris, I think it's a point very well made,
• 25:32
  Speaker 15: and I heard your intro at the top of the show,
• 25:34
  Speaker 15: and I agree with it absolutely. Before we had the
• 25:39
  Speaker 15: police security, I can remember, and probably influenced by having
• 25:43
  Speaker 15: been a former police officer, but I can remember going
• 25:46
  Speaker 15: into restaurants or into public places or, you know, people
• 25:48
  Speaker 15: talk now about not doing mobile.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: Offices and the rest of it.
• 25:51
  Speaker 15: I was very conscious of it because we were receiving
• 25:53
  Speaker 15: threats but didn't have security at that stage.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: And you do.
• 25:57
  Speaker 15: you do modify your behaviours. You prefer to stay at
• 26:01
  Speaker 15: home or make sure that, you know, where you're going
• 26:05
  Speaker 15: is not advertised before you go there, et cetera. And
• 26:08
  Speaker 15: that is quite confronting at a human level. Now, you've
• 26:11
  Speaker 15: got that, I suppose, mindset that's now with many of
• 26:16
  Speaker 15: our MPs.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: It shouldn't be the case, but it is.
• 26:19
  Speaker 15: And the reason that I make that point is that
• 26:22
  Speaker 15: I think it's the same experience of the Jewish community
• 26:24
  Speaker 15: here in Australia over the course of the last couple
• 26:26
  Speaker 15: of years, where they don't wear religious symbols publicly, where
• 26:31
  Speaker 15: they're worried about their kids going to school. There are
• 26:34
  Speaker 15: no other schools in Australia where there are armed guards
• 26:37
  Speaker 15: standing out the front. People are worried from the Jewish
• 26:41
  Speaker 15: community when they go to a synagogue. They don't congregate
• 26:43
  Speaker 15: on steps. I can remember, you know, going to different
• 26:46
  Speaker 15: mosques and churches and synagogues and other places of worship
• 26:51
  Speaker 15: The synagogue in Sydney was the only place that I
• 26:54
  Speaker 15: ever went to where the federal police moved me very
• 26:57
  Speaker 15: quickly from the front door when we exited the service
• 27:00
  Speaker 15: to the armed cars because they were worried either about
• 27:03
  Speaker 15: a drive-by shooting or an explosive device at that place
• 27:07
  Speaker 15: of worship.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: Now, that is unbearable.
• 27:09
  Speaker 15: But because we've allowed that society to be intimidated and
• 27:15
  Speaker 15: we've allowed the rule of law to be broken and
• 27:18
  Speaker 15: not to be enforced, particularly in Victoria, I think that
• 27:22
  Speaker 15: has led to a level of insecurity and, frankly, a departure.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: From what was just a normal life for Jewish Australians.
• 27:31
  Speaker 15: And now we shouldn't be surprised to see that influencing
• 27:34
  Speaker 15: public debate and leading to some of the hateful and
• 27:38
  Speaker 15: spiteful speeches that we've seen that you played from Grace
• 27:42
  Speaker 15: Tame and others. And that is the reality that we've
• 27:44
  Speaker 15: allowed to happen. And I hope as a society, and
• 27:47
  Speaker 15: I think it should be a bipartisan effort where we're
• 27:50
  Speaker 15: able to put that back into a box.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: It's good that you've come out and spoken on these issues.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: You've been very quiet since you left politics. I have.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: A lot of people leave politics in a brutal way
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: and it was tough for you.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: It's good to talk to you again.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: Can I just ask you finally, are you happy in
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: your life post-politics?
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: You're glad to be out of it now. But, well, look,
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: I am.
• 28:09
  Speaker 15: I must say I've had more meals at home with
• 28:11
  Speaker 15: the kids than Kiralee in the last 18 months than
• 28:14
  Speaker 15: I have in the last 24 years. I left the
• 28:17
  Speaker 15: stage with dignity and very proud of what I'd achieved
• 28:20
  Speaker 15: and I have contributed a lot to this country. I'm
• 28:23
  Speaker 15: a patriotic person. I love it and I'll stand up
• 28:25
  Speaker 15: for what I believe in. And I just noticed your
• 28:29
  Speaker 15: Adelaide Cup there as well. We had a great win
• 28:30
  Speaker 15: in Brisbane again this year, three in a row.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: Great way to finish, rub it in. So thank you
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: for having me on.
• 28:35
  Speaker 15: And as I say, I think once you've exited the stage,
• 28:39
  Speaker 15: you should really re-enter it and that's been the.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: Approach that I've taken.
• 28:43
  Speaker 8: But.
• 28:43
  Speaker 15: Really happy to be here with you today and thanks
• 28:46
  Speaker 15: for what you've done, particularly in terms of the Jewish community.
• 28:48
  Speaker 15: I think it's important and it's well respected, mate.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much. Good to see you again, Peter. Thanks
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: for joining us.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: Peter Dutton there, former opposition leader. Plenty of food for
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: thought there. Let's go to power prices now because they
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: continue to rise and a new poll has found that
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: voters in Energy Minister Chris Bowen's Western Sydney electorate reject
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: his scaremongering, with a majority in support of keeping existing
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: coal-fired power plants in place. Let's bring in Zoe Hilton
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: from Affordable Energy Australia. They conducted the survey. Good to
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: talk to you again, Zoe. Tell us about this. People
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: in the end, they want power at a reasonable price, right? Exactly.
• 29:24
  Speaker 14: Everyone wants affordable power, and that includes everyone in Albanese's seat,
• 29:30
  Speaker 14: in Bowen's seat. Like, we're seeing this. Across the board
• 29:32
  Speaker 14: in Labor's Sydney heartland, in 12 electorates that were polled,
• 29:36
  Speaker 14: 80 of voters want existing coal power plants to be
• 29:41
  Speaker 14: kept running until an affordable and reliable replacement is ready.
• 29:45
  Speaker 14: And 72% are open to new coal power plants being
• 29:49
  Speaker 14: built in New South Wales, just as they are in Queensland.
• 29:52
  Speaker 14: And so what this tells us is people are sick
• 29:55
  Speaker 14: of ideological targets.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: Very much like.
• 29:57
  Speaker 14: You look across the board, honestly, like, every poll that
• 29:59
  Speaker 14: is done on any energy source, majority of Australians are
• 30:03
  Speaker 14: actually in favour of them. Like, they're not ideological about
• 30:06
  Speaker 14: energy sources in the way that our government is. They
• 30:08
  Speaker 14: want all options on the table, but they also want
• 30:11
  Speaker 14: affordability to be first, and that is not happening at
• 30:14
  Speaker 14: the moment.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, affordability and reliability is kind of central. It amused
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: me a bit when I looked at what Chris Bowen
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: said on the weekend.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: He was being asked about the.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: Snowy Hydro project, but have a look at what he
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: said about the energy transition.
• 30:27
  Speaker 9: This is the biggest energy transition or economic transition the
• 30:29
  Speaker 9: country's ever undertaken and does have complexities.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's complex.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: It's a big economic change.
• 30:35
  Speaker 18: This is like an awakening from Chris Bowen because he's
• 30:39
  Speaker 18: been telling people for years that renewable energy is cheaper
• 30:44
  Speaker 18: and cleaner and quicker and more reliable.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: Guess what? It's not. You can't make that transition quickly
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: without enormous cost and inconvenience. Exactly.
• 30:54
  Speaker 14: I mean, when we look at history, we look across
• 30:56
  Speaker 14: the world throughout history, energy transitions don't happen because the
• 31:00
  Speaker 14: government wants them to. They happen because the technologies make sense.
• 31:04
  Speaker 14: They make energy cheaper. You go from lower energy density
• 31:07
  Speaker 14: to higher energy density. And that's just not true when
• 31:10
  Speaker 14: you look at going from coal to coal. intermittent renewables
• 31:14
  Speaker 14: like wind and solar, you're going to a lower density
• 31:16
  Speaker 14: energy source, and that's going to be more expensive because
• 31:18
  Speaker 14: you're going to need more storage and more transmission and
• 31:21
  Speaker 14: all the other firming costs that just push the bill
• 31:24
  Speaker 14: up and up and up. And you'll hear people saying, oh, well,
• 31:27
  Speaker 14: wholesale power prices are so low. Well, that's great, but
• 31:30
  Speaker 14: that's not what.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: Average people are paying.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: It's not what we pay.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: It's not what we pay.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Exactly. Thanks for joining us, Zoe. Zoe Hilton there.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: I appreciate it. She's with Affordable Energy Australia. I just
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: want to point out the The petition they're running, if
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: you have a look at this, you can Google this
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: or you can have a look at the.
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: the QR code there as well.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: Get your camera on that and you can join that petition.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: Nearly 18,000 signatures on there already to call on Australia's
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: leaders to prioritise affordable and reliable energy. After the break,
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: we're going to stick on the energy debate and we'll
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: find out what's happening with Snowy Hydro 2.0. Looking like
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: being a $ 40.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: Billion big battery in the mountains. Don't go away.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: Now, we've been on the case of Snowy 2.0 since
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: it was announced by net zero-obsessed PM Malcolm Turnbull.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: Nine years ago.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: It always looked like a boondoggle. Late last week, the
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: government confirmed the cost has blown out to $ 25 billion,
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: and that's likely to top $ 40 billion once transmission lines
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: are included to connect it to the grid. Kind of important.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: But even that build, that total cost then is 20
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: times the original $ 2 billion announced by Turnbull. Here's the
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: Energy Minister, Chris Bowen, about this on the weekend.
• 32:47
  Speaker 9: It is, to be fair, one of the most complicated
• 32:50
  Speaker 9: engineering schemes underway anywhere in the world. We're building a
• 32:53
  Speaker 9: power station the size of the Sydney Opera House, one
• 32:56
  Speaker 9: kilometre below ground. I mean, that's what we're doing. And
• 33:01
  Speaker 9: 40 kilometres worth of tunnelling, which is now 65% complete,
• 33:04
  Speaker 9: for example.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: Let's go to Bruce Mountain.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: He's the director of the Victoria Energy Policy Centre. Good
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: to talk to you again, Bruce. You've been predicting these
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: sorts of crazy numbers for some time now, and there's
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: no doubt about the complexity of the task. The question
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: that immediately leaps to my mind is why then?
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: That's the point.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: Why? It's complex. It's expensive.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: There wasn't a need to do this.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: There's a million other things you could have done.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, hi, Chris. It's utterly frustrating.
• 33:34
  Speaker 19: It was a daft decision when it was made.
• 33:37
  Speaker 20: It was so obviously daft at the time that it
• 33:40
  Speaker 20: was made, even if it was cheaper. There were alternatives
• 33:44
  Speaker 20: then that were cheaper, if indeed they were needed, and
• 33:46
  Speaker 20: I don't think they were needed.
• 33:50
  Speaker 19: So it's a shameful episode of Australian energy policy and execution.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: It's grim.
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: What's extraordinary to see, as you say, this has been
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: unfolding really since the get-go, and it is the Coalition's baby.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: It was Malcolm Turnbull's promise. But Labor have doubling down
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: on it. Chris Bowen is so committed to it. He's
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: still spruiking up the benefits of this when the modelling
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: suggests that, you know, it won't repay that investment by
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: taxpayers in 100 years.
• 34:25
  Speaker 19: I don't think it'll ever repay the investment from TaxPay.
• 34:30
  Speaker 19: It had no chance of doing that even at the earliest.
• 34:32
  Speaker 20: Budget, and we've done lots of studies on that in
• 34:34
  Speaker 20: the earlier part of the morning.
• 34:37
  Speaker 19: There is simply not the economics in pumped hydro storage
• 34:41
  Speaker 19: with those costs and the inflexibility of this pump.
• 34:46
  Speaker 20: It sits at the top of a hydro system.
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: It's inflexible.
• 34:49
  Speaker 19: It doesn't have its own source of water. It all
• 34:51
  Speaker 19: needs to be pumped up through the snowy mountains It's
• 34:56
  Speaker 19: utterly bizarre that this thing was ever.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: Put on the table.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: Is it too late now just to scrap it? I mean,
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: obviously there's a lot of sunk costs, but it would
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: prevent you spending any more.
• 35:07
  Speaker 19: No, I don't think it's too late. In fact, the
• 35:12
  Speaker 19: latest information from Snowy Hydro clarifies the picture somewhat. They've
• 35:17
  Speaker 19: said they've got another $ 25 billion to spend. Well, we
• 35:20
  Speaker 19: trust that anyway. Sorry, they've got a total, so they've
• 35:23
  Speaker 19: got another $ 13 billion to spend. That excludes segment factory,
• 35:27
  Speaker 19: environmental costs, the transmission connection costs for themselves. And, you know, realistically,
• 35:35
  Speaker 19: they've got another half to go, yes. They aren't on
• 35:38
  Speaker 19: a fixed-price contract. They're on a contract that's open. It's
• 35:44
  Speaker 19: desperately needing at this point... to force the Minister's hand
• 35:49
  Speaker 19: to say, no, we've been called and we're going to
• 35:52
  Speaker 19: go through a process to figure out whether it's best
• 35:55
  Speaker 19: to completely cut the thing all together now or possibly
• 35:58
  Speaker 19: give it to someone else to finish.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Bruce. I appreciate it.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: What a shambles. Bruce Mountain there, $ 40 billion. Imagine what
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: you could do to our energy grid with that spent
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: in a sensible way.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: We're going to go to a break.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: On the other side, we'll cross to Paris, where Sophie
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: Osworth has been keeping an eye on those riots.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: Don't go away.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: Let's head back down to Canberra now and catch up
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: with Dan Tee and the Shadow Energy Minister. Good to
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: talk to you again, Dan.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: Look, we're waiting on the.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: Inflation numbers this week. Suggestions are it's not going to
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: be good. It brings the economic debate back into focus.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: And the Coalition today bravely putting out $ 31 billion in
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: budget cuts to pay for the indexation of income tax rates.
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: This is a pretty solid move, a long way up
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: from an election.
• 36:49
  Speaker 21: Well, Chris, we want to demonstrate that we're serious and
• 36:53
  Speaker 21: that the government can get its spending under control if
• 36:56
  Speaker 21: it's prepared to make some hard decisions. And as you know,
• 37:00
  Speaker 21: we've already announced net zero goes under us, the safeguard
• 37:04
  Speaker 21: mechanism goes under us, the cheaper home battery scheme goes
• 37:09
  Speaker 21: under us. So we're going to continue to put forward
• 37:13
  Speaker 21: these policies and we think that, at a minimum, we
• 37:17
  Speaker 21: can find immediately... around $ 8 billion to $ 9 billion in
• 37:22
  Speaker 21: savings from this mad net zero approach that Chris Bowen
• 37:26
  Speaker 21: is undertaking.
• 37:27
  Speaker 4: And I think there's going to be more the longer
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: it goes.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I think this is fascinating stuff and it's
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: a central debate for an election campaign, even though it's
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: a year or more away. And one is it's a
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: great idea to index, a great promise to index income
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: tax thresholds. It means we don't get caught out by
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: bracket creep all the time. which only benefits government coffers.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: But these budget cuts you've picked out, as you say,
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: a lot of them are to do with net zero
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: and subsidies to industry for things like green hydrogen and
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: the like. I mean, there's so much fat, there's so
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: much wasteful spending that you can outline $ 31 billion in
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: cuts and it's all to the good. There's no downside
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: from it.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: No, there's not.
• 38:13
  Speaker 21: And we can then go out to the Australian people
• 38:15
  Speaker 21: and say we're serious about getting the budget under control.
• 38:18
  Speaker 21: We're serious about lowering your tax burden. Remember, when it
• 38:22
  Speaker 21: comes to income tax burden, we're second.
• 38:25
  Speaker 4: Highest in the OECD.
• 38:27
  Speaker 21: When it comes to capital tax burden, we're the highest.
• 38:30
  Speaker 21: So the tax burden that's falling on the private sector
• 38:34
  Speaker 21: at the moment.
• 38:35
  Speaker 4: just makes our economy unworkable.
• 38:37
  Speaker 21: And there are easy savings to be found. And, you know,
• 38:41
  Speaker 21: just today, we've found out with Chris Bowen's secret capacity
• 38:46
  Speaker 21: investment scheme that 27 projects have collapsed.
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: So there's more savings there.
• 38:53
  Speaker 21: If we could actually see how that whole scheme is working.
• 38:57
  Speaker 21: But of course, there's a complete lack of transparency. There's
• 39:00
  Speaker 21: potentially money to be saved when it comes to Snowy Hydro.
• 39:03
  Speaker 21: If there was transparency and we could see the costings
• 39:07
  Speaker 21: around that, the cheaper home battery scheme, we've already had
• 39:11
  Speaker 21: officials admit today at Senate Estimates it was too generous.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: Indeed.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: Well, you maybe need to roll up your sleeves and
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: start getting some of the hard cost cutting as well
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: rather than just the easy stuff. But before I let
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: you go, I've got to show you something that the
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: Treasurer Jim Chalmers has said. It's something of an apology
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: from him. Have a look.
• 39:30
  Speaker 21: I'm driving some really difficult reforms through the Parliament.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: And I know that that's playing out, makes life tougher
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: for some of my colleagues in particular. And I do
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: care about that. And I do care about them. I
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: should make more time for my colleagues.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: He's making life tougher for his colleagues.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: What about voters?
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: What about taxpayers? Shouldn't they be the ones he's worried about?
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: Well, that's what you would think.
• 39:57
  Speaker 21: And obviously he said he's locking himself up in a
• 40:00
  Speaker 21: hotel room and that's hurting his colleagues.
• 40:03
  Speaker 4: Well, I can tell you, forget about your colleagues, Jim.
• 40:06
  Speaker 21: Get out there and see what you're doing to small
• 40:08
  Speaker 21: business in this country and to households. You know, they
• 40:12
  Speaker 21: are hurting and they're hurting beyond belief.
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: And yet you're just worried about your colleagues.
• 40:16
  Speaker 21: We know that Jim's got future ambitions to be Prime Minister.
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: Well, forget about those, Jim.
• 40:22
  Speaker 21: Do your day job, get the economy performing, get inflation
• 40:26
  Speaker 21: under control, make sure that interest rates, you're putting downward
• 40:30
  Speaker 21: pressure when it comes to them, not upwards.
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: Fix the cost of living.
• 40:34
  Speaker 21: Forget about your colleagues because I can tell you, that
• 40:37
  Speaker 21: will make people angry hearing that.
• 40:39
  Speaker 4: I reckon.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Dan Tehan. How about that?
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: The Treasurer's worried about him making.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: Life tough for his colleagues.
• 40:46
  Speaker 18: Mate, get your head out of the Labor Party and
• 40:49
  Speaker 18: think about the country.
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: Think about voters. Think about taxpayers. They're the ones you
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: should be worried about.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: You've made life too tough for them. Now, we're going
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: to cross to Sophie Ellsworth in Paris in just a moment.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: Before we do, I want to show you a little
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: bit of her reporting as she's been in the action
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: in the French capital.
• 41:06
  Speaker 12: This is getting really quite dangerous and we have to
• 41:09
  Speaker 12: be careful because they are using tear gas and water
• 41:12
  Speaker 12: cannons to disperse the crowd. But you can see here,
• 41:15
  Speaker 12: this situation is extremely tense and getting quite dangerous. Sophie Ellsworth, News.
• 41:22
  Speaker 14: Corp Australia, Paris.
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: Always in the thick of it is Sophie Ellsworth. We'll
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: go to her now.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: She's on the Champs-Élysées in Paris. And, Sophie, a little
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: bit blustery but a bit calmer there. Tell us, is
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: that the situation now for the country, that the protests
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: have died down, that the authorities have got on top
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: of them?
• 41:44
  Speaker 22: Yeah, great to be with you, Chris. Look, they were
• 41:45
  Speaker 22: pretty wild scenes on the weekend here in Paris. Right
• 41:50
  Speaker 22: in the thick of it, got tear gas, there were
• 41:52
  Speaker 22: water cannons. There was huge military and police personnel on
• 41:57
  Speaker 22: the ground at those protests, which got pretty unruly, despite
• 42:00
  Speaker 22: the reports where you'll see that they said they were
• 42:03
  Speaker 22: relatively calm. I would dispute that. But things are slightly
• 42:07
  Speaker 22: getting back to normal here in Paris. We have had curfews.
• 42:11
  Speaker 22: We had another one last night in various parts of
• 42:14
  Speaker 22: the city. It's been very tense here, Chris. In this
• 42:18
  Speaker 22: magnificent city, I mean, I'm in one of the most
• 42:20
  Speaker 22: beautiful locations right now. There was a beautiful sunrise this morning.
• 42:25
  Speaker 22: It's absolutely glorious. But those scenes we saw here on
• 42:29
  Speaker 22: Saturday evening were extraordinary, Chris. And it was only really
• 42:34
  Speaker 22: that the weather turned quite bad, it started to rain,
• 42:37
  Speaker 22: that the crowds left. Because had it not rained, I
• 42:42
  Speaker 22: think that could have gone for hours longer.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, nothing quells a protest like the rain. Now, you've
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: been out talking to some of the protesters about their motivations.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: Can you give us an assessment of that? There's been
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: a grab bag of issues. We've started off with education,
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: but also we've seen a lot of Palestinian flags and
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: seemingly other issues wrapped into these protests. What's your assessment?
• 43:05
  Speaker 22: Well, on the ground, Chris, there was a real mix
• 43:07
  Speaker 22: of people. You had the students who were angry about
• 43:10
  Speaker 22: the situation with the educational system and also the facilities
• 43:15
  Speaker 22: that they have. Then you had the union groups there.
• 43:18
  Speaker 22: There was an awful lot of pro-Palestinian Gaza protesters there,
• 43:24
  Speaker 22: thousands of them. Then you had the members of the
• 43:27
  Speaker 22: Black Bloc, Antifa. You know, you had real extremist groups
• 43:32
  Speaker 22: in there as well that.
• 43:33
  Speaker 4: Were looking, Chris.
• 43:35
  Speaker 22: and admitting to me on camera they were there to
• 43:38
  Speaker 22: cause trouble and they thought it was totally acceptable to
• 43:41
  Speaker 22: destroy property, burn cars, damage businesses. This was really extraordinary.
• 43:47
  Speaker 22: So it was really very much a mix of people there,
• 43:51
  Speaker 22: but there were definitely some people there that set out
• 43:56
  Speaker 22: to cause trouble.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, anarchy rules. Thanks for joining us, Sophie. I appreciate
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: it getting up early for us there. in the French capital.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: We've got to get to a break. After that, we'll
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: be catching up with the panel. We want to talk
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: about the Victorian Liberals. They're now surging to Election Day.
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: Latest polling is very, very good for them. Let's go
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: to our Monday night panel with Caroline DiRusso joining us
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: from Perth, as ever, and Christy McSweeney in Melbourne.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: Great to catch up with both of you.
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: Let's start in Victoria, though, Christy, where the latest polls
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: are very good for the Liberals with the election.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: Just over a month away.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: Suggestions in those numbers that Jess Wilson could win majority
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: government without having to rely on one nation. You never know.
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: Well, Chris, as you know, I also work for Redbridge
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: Polling with my other hat on. We have tracked, particularly
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: over the last three months since Labor has had that
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: leadership change from Jacinta Allen to Ben Carroll, has not
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: been able to recover the Labor vote. It's an experiment
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: that hasn't benefited them in primary votes. It has had
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: the Liberal Party tracking ahead of both Labor and One Nation.
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: It's a margin of error, but they've consistently tracked ahead.
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: And I think this is a demonstration of people sort
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: of looking at this election as a service delivery election.
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: It's about, you promised me, train stations that were built,
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: roads that are undriveable, unsealed arterial roads that I have
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: to sit on for 45 minutes to get to the freeway.
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: And they're looking at who is the best place to
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: offer them that service delivery alternative? And the fact is
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: that One Nation has not quite got its infrastructure together,
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: despite what we say about their professionalism coming on board.
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: They haven't got their infrastructure together to target those issues
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: around service delivery electorate by electorate. And the Coalition has. Now,
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: Labor still has an 11-seat buffer and it's a pollster's
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: picnic of minor parties this election. So we can't be
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: too confident, but certainly buoyed.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: It'll be a messy night.
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: Let's have a look at what Jess Wilson's had to
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: say today.
• 46:06
  Speaker 10: Only majority government can start turning this state around. We
• 46:09
  Speaker 10: can't risk delaying the work required to get to work
• 46:13
  Speaker 10: from day one. There will be no deals, there are
• 46:15
  Speaker 10: no deals, and we're focused on forming majority government here.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Caroline, wise to not talk about deals. But in
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: the end, if the votes are cast and they need
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: some sort of guarantee of supply from One Nation, of
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: course they'd end up taking it.
• 46:32
  Speaker 23: Well, we learnt our lesson very well back here in
• 46:35
  Speaker 23: WA in 2021. You never admit any sort of defeat
• 46:39
  Speaker 23: before an election.
• 46:40
  Speaker 7: So.
• 46:41
  Speaker 23: You know, absolutely, that's what she should be aiming for
• 46:44
  Speaker 23: is majority government. Jess and her team have been tight
• 46:47
  Speaker 23: and tidy and they just have to keep doing that
• 46:50
  Speaker 23: as they go forward. When you have a look at
• 46:51
  Speaker 23: that polling, when you've got 58% of people who are unhappy,
• 46:55
  Speaker 23: unsatisfied with Labor, I mean, if you can move a vote,
• 46:59
  Speaker 23: you just need to give it a home to go to.
• 47:01
  Speaker 23: So as long as she keeps... you know, very focused
• 47:05
  Speaker 23: on those very high level things.
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: And like Christy said, it.
• 47:09
  Speaker 23: Is all about service and delivery. This is what they
• 47:12
  Speaker 23: haven't done well. This is what we're going to do better.
• 47:15
  Speaker 23: And if you want us to do it better, we
• 47:17
  Speaker 23: can't be shilly-shallying around trying to negotiate and haggle with
• 47:20
  Speaker 23: another party. You just want it done. Well, if she
• 47:23
  Speaker 23: keeps up with that sort of message, I think she'll
• 47:25
  Speaker 23: do very well.
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: And strangely enough, it's exactly the same advice that you
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: would or should be giving to Angus Taylor. It's the
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: same challenge, really, he faces over the next year. So
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: that's one of the reasons it's going to be so
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: fascinating to watch. Let's go to these One Nation protests.
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: We've seen them in the past. There's another one being
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: lined up. First up, let me remind you of what
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: we see from the students at these protests.
• 47:49
  Speaker 7: What would you do if Pauline Hansen.
• 47:52
  Speaker 22: Were here today?
• 47:53
  Speaker 17: I'm not, I would f * * * her.
• 47:55
  Speaker 19: I would f * * * her.
• 47:56
  Speaker 11: It's like, beat her the f * * * up.
• 47:59
  Speaker 13: Kill her.
• 48:00
  Speaker 17: I'll bring back the guillotine, I think.
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: Shame, fascists, shame.
• 48:04
  Speaker 14: Die, Nazi scum.
• 48:06
  Speaker 17: Shame, Pauline.
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: Shame.
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: Die, Pauline, you sick f * * *. Shocking stuff, yeah.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: Young people calling, die, smash her, kill her, Christy, and
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: they're planning to have more of these protests on Remembrance
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: Day this year. That's just sick, isn't it?
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: It is sick, Chris, and if I was a parent
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: of one of those children, I would be so disappointed
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: and so upset. But we have to ask questions at why...
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: children are so vulnerable.
• 48:40
  Speaker 4: To these groups.
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: This is a group that it calls itself anti-capitalist school children.
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: It's funded and involved with the socialist alternative publishers of
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: austere literature, such as Red Flag, organisers of Australia's Marxism Conference.
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: So it is a political manipulation of young people to
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: serve their own aims and to serve their own purposes.
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: And I don't think the young.
• 49:07
  Speaker 4: People know it.
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: And, Caroline, just how disrespectful to our veterans and our
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: forebears to do this on Remembrance Day.
• 49:14
  Speaker 7: Totally.
• 49:15
  Speaker 23: But they're obviously not getting a proper history education at school,
• 49:18
  Speaker 23: because I think if they were, they wouldn't even consider
• 49:22
  Speaker 23: doing something that is so totally revolting. Like Christy said,
• 49:25
  Speaker 23: they're called school kids anti-capitalists or anti-capitalists. I mean, it
• 49:30
  Speaker 23: is so easy to be an anti-capitalist when mummy and
• 49:32
  Speaker 23: daddy are paying for everything for you. You just wonder,
• 49:36
  Speaker 23: you just wonder when these kids grow up that this
• 49:40
  Speaker 23: sort of footage gets replayed in the future. You would
• 49:43
  Speaker 23: just be so ashamed of yourself, wouldn't you?
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: Absolute shockers.
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: Oh, you would indeed. Thanks for joining us, Caroline and Christy.
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: We'll catch you next time.
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: Just a little bit of time to share some of
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: your feedback from what I had to say last Thursday
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: about Ben Robert Smith and how that whole prosecution process
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: should just be dropped. And he says, who would join
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: our Defence Force if this is how we treat our
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: heroes when they return home? And another viewer says... Thanks
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: for joining me. It's going to be another busy week.
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: I'll be back here tomorrow night. Peter Quedlin's got you next.