Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 270: Nature is Metal is Metal

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Ep. 270: Nature is Metal is Metal · The MeatEater Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: This is me eat podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: can't predict anything presented by first light. Go farther, stay longer. Alright, Spencer,
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: we got a lot to do. But how quick do
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: you think you can do your Arkansas and update? Quick?
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: I think Arkansas update? But set up? Why? Why isn't up?
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Like why we talked in the past about the term
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Arkansas or something. No, it means different things with different people.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: It means popping up and shooting a duck off the water,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: that's right. Or you can Arkansas grouse, shooting a pheasant
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: out of the ditch, shooting a dove off of power line?
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Did we mention? No, that is not Arkansas. It's not.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: You can't Arkansas a dove off a power line. Why
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: not just be shooting dup off a powerline? Arkansas is
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: shooting it on the ground. Well, let's let's get in
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Like if you shot a turkey out of a tree,
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: God forbid, you wouldn't be saying you Arkansas the turkey
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: when he's down the ground. You do on Arkansas, I know,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: But that's what I'm saying. You're you're like Arkansas means
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: that you're sort of taking this like uh an advantage
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: over your quarry and you know, no, go ahead. That's
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: all I have to say I understand is my old
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: man told me that in Arkansas, there's like a boat
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: in Arkansas boat something you'd pull up on ducks and
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: have all these ten gage shotguns lined out and you
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: they're they're one at water level, one slightly higher, one
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: slightly higher. As he explained to me, Arkansas boat pulls
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: up on a raft of ducks, boom bottom, they start
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: to take off, boom. The next gun they start to
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: take off, boom. The next volley is a little higher
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: on rigged boat rigged ones on boats. And that's my
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: That's what he told me. And that name, though I
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: thought you had said, was inspired by like the warship,
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: I can definitely never said that a worship. Yeah, they
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: were US Arkansas. That's right. I was pulling, stupid, I
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: was pulling for your explanation to be correct, Steve. When
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: when you brought that up, I'm like, Okay, that's uh,
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: that's like a cute explanation. That makes sense. The worship
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: that I've never heard the duck boat things Okay, that's cute. Yeah,
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: I think so like fits all right. I can't find
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: anything about it. They've talked to my old man. I
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: was even biased. My dad had written down here, here's
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: how the internet works. If my old man had written
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: down his theory and put it on an article, you
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: would have searched and you've been like, oh, here's proof. Yes,
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: I was pulling for you. I was even biased in
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: my search. Hope me to confirm what you said, because
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: I like that explanation so much. But I found that
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Arkansas as a term extends way beyond just like a
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: method of take. It's a derogatory term used all over hunting,
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: lingo and beyond. So you have an Arkansas limit, which
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: is if you're allowed like fifteen crop eas and you
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: take home sixteen, but the Bakers doesn't, you got an
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: Arkansas limit. If if you're not allowed to shoot hand
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: pheasants and you shoot a hand pheasant, then you've got
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: an Arkansas limit. Let's just start calling it a newcomb. Yeah,
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: there's that's that's horrible because clays like that. It gets
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: worse here. I was listen, I just want to clarify something.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: I wasn't making a comment on Clay's like adherence to
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: game laws, I was more like his him being from Arkansas.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: I I found um an article written by somebody from
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: Arkansas talking about the Arkansas of America, which was written
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: in advance of Bill Clinton becoming president, in talking about
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: how Arkansas is a term you can find all over
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: the South that means a lot of different things. So
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: that's that's where a lot of cinfo is coming from. Also,
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: different forums where people talking about, like, hey, what do
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: you guys call it when you uh like shoot something
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: off of power line? Or what do you call it
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: when you shoot something off water? So that's that's where
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: the c info is coming from. So that's where so
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: it just means taking liberties, taking liberties with we got
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: in our context, in our context of what we deal
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: with here on this program. It's taking liberties with game laws. Yes,
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: and you'll you'll like these other examples, then can you
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: Arkansas your taxes? You have? Now that this was probably
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: my favorite one, And there's terms different terms for it
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: all over the United States that I found in these
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: different forums. If deer season opens on November two sunset
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: and November one is referred to as the Arkansas open
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: or if you live in Minnesota, you might refer to
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: do it as the Wisconsin opener. Or I found people
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: in the north Woods that would refer to it as
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: the Finnish opener or the Polish opener. So basically, whatever
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: group of folks you'd like to put down, it's just
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: insert here opener when I You know what's funny about
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: that is when I was growing up, you always hated
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: like the real rednecks rods just north of you. So
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: if you were in twin Light, you knew that the
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: real hell Billies were in Holton. If you ask from
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: from Holton who the real hell Billies were, they were
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: from Hispiia. And it just marched up the state like that.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: In these places are not far apart, you know, but
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: it was like a very like other. That's where the
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: real poachers are. You know. When I, when I was
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: a kid, um, I couldn't remember the difference between North
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: Korea and South Korea. I grew up in South Dakota,
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: and our history teacher told us in middle school, he says, well,
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: you remember it like this, South Dakota is good and
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: South Korea is good. North Korea is very bad. North
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: Dakota is very bad. Do you We're gonna move on.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: But do you remember when South Dakota North North Dakota
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: did that play that North Dakota was gonna change its
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: name to Dakota in South Dakota got pissed. I mean
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: this is ah No, yeah, I don't, I don't remember.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: It was like a pr stunt. But they're they're gonna
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: drop the North. They were gonna do whatever it takes
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: to drop North and become Dakota. Like Virginia West Virginia, right,
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: They wanted to do that same thing, and they thought
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: it would help tourism out because if you said to
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: someone like, hey man, you want to go on on
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: a vacation to Dakota, there you go. You know, it
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: makes South seem like, I don't know, like whatever some
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: I've forgotten other part. It'd be like Virginia holds more.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: You know, I guess holds that. I'm not gonna go
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: with that, you know what I'm saying, Yeah, not hold on.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm afraid you still think your Arkansas boat explanation
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: is a correct one. Yeah, of course, I have other
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: examples here to show you how Arkansas just us a
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: derogatory term all over. You have Arkansas asphalt, which is
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: a chromey road with pothole. You can go on in
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: Arkansas date, which is the same thing as going Dutch.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: Each pay for your own thing. Uh. You can Arkansas
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: somebody out of something, which is like swindling, like that
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: banker wants to Arkansas somebody out of his farm. You
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: have on Arkansas wedding cake. Do you want to take
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: a guess as to what that is? A pie? Corn bread?
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: You have an Arkansas strawberry, which is a hickey. And
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: then in the card game of Uker, you can get Arkansas,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: which is if you are trying to get like five
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: tricks in Uker and you come up with only three,
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: you came up short, so now you're gonna get Arkansas.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: It's weird that that exists. But then there's also a
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: type of duck hunting boat called an Arkansas boat. Good Dry.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: I kind of believe you. I kind to believe you,
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: but I almost have to have I'd have to talk
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: to Clay about it too. I feel bad for you.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: Talk to about it a little bit in the past,
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: and he he said, they don't refer it is refer
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: to it as that, but is he aware of it? Yeah,
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: when you're in Arkansas and you Arkansas dark, what do
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: they say? Well? Okay, So you come across examples of
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: this in forums where like somebody from Arkansas refirst do
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: it is Oklahoma? Or you have like somebody in Mississippi,
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: uh that refers to it as Louisiana or whatever. But
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: Arkansas seems to be a fairly agreed upon term. We
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: get people from like Wyoming, Michigan, Illinois, like all over
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: the country. Oh yeah, I was gonna ask if we
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: could send if we could a sign spencer, like another
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: task here for the next podcast and come back with
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: the origins of Kentucky windage m HM, which I have
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: always heard and Seth corrobreadd that it's basically like the
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: long hunters not taking real precise shots and just being
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: like just all four feet over it's back. But I
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: think it's I think it's because I think it's I
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: think it's a honorable thing. I think it's like you're
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: talking about these these very like the long Kentucky long
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: hunters with Kentucky rifles, these people who had were like
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: very accurate instinctive shooters or is it poking fun at
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: the hunting culture in Kentucky. Have you ever watched that
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: You ever watched The Alamo? No where Billy Bob Thornton
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: plays Boone? Doesn't he play Boone in the Alamo? Yeah,
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: Billy Bob Thornton plays Boone and he goes to shoot uh.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: He goes to shoot uh Mexican officer at the Alamo,
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: and he licks his finger and holds it up in
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: the air and then takes this crazy shot and kills
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: the guy. I think that he's like it was an
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: homage to Kentucky windage. I like it. I can get
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: behind that, and I will be cheering for that explanation
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: when I do something sleuth thing. I want to move
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: on to Yanni's Mountain Lion Store, but I have one
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: more thing to say, and this is a thing that
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: I'd like to spend some time on. At some point,
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: as we recognize, like as we as a culture recognized
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: that you know, you shouldn't tell don't tell Vinanoli jokes, right,
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: don't tell Polish jokes like these are jokes that are
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: insulting the people in their prejudicial um, at what point
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: and it's I'm not the guy that invented this thought,
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: But at what point, why is it still okay? It
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: will always be okay. The one thing everyone can agree
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: on that like one despicable thing is a poor Southern
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: white person, do you know what I mean. It's like
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: it's like it winds up being that. It's like you
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: can always dog on that in the movie. If you
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: got a movie and you want a bad person to
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: come out, the bad person will come out, and it
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: will be like, let me guess, right, let me guess
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: we were I was watching movie with my kids where
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: it's like these these wolf it's a stupid movie where
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: they got to move these It's it's one of those
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: movies where like the animals are the good guys and
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: all the people are bad guys, and there's these guys
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: are doing like wolf removal in Canada. But sure enough
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: they come out and it sounds like American Southerners. M hmm.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: It's a it's a stereotype that I don't I think
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: it's gonna be the last. The last standing stereotype would
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: be that that, uh, you know, an American Southerner with
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: a drawal is it will be like the last that
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: would be the last one to go away? What do
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: you think about that? Kin' right? That's that's I thought
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: you're gonna have. I thought that you would. Um. I
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: think I feel that I was being that. I was
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: like that, I didn't put that right. No, I think
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: unfortunately that's right. I think that we have stereotype kind
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: of deeply seated that people who sound a certain way
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: with a Southern draw like that, that that and like
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: intelligence don't go together. And that's that's just not that's
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: just ridiculous because I could still run around if I
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: went and said to some people, Um, if I went
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: to some enlightened folks and I said, oh yeah, he
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: Arkansas at the duckt, They're not gonna say like, dude,
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: come on, They're not, do you know what I mean?
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: They're gonna be oh yeah, those people. There was a
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: show on Netflix called The one hundred Humans where they
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: took fifty people and put them in auditorium and they
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: had a presentation done by someone with a British accent,
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: and then that exact same person gave a presentation to
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: another group of fifty people, the exact same presentation, word
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: for word, minute for a minute, but in a Southern accent.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: And then they had the audience, like give them a
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: score for what did you think of this person? And
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: like give us some commentary on them? And the person
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: with the British accent got far better remarks despite it
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: being the exact same information, exact same That is interesting
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: and not surprising. Yeah, okay, we gotta do an update
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: on Suvie. Are you guys more like sue Vied? I
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: never know what the hell to say. I used to
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: say sue Vie than I heard people that seem like
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: they know more than me say Suevied. I think I
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: think the E at the end makes it a hard d.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: There you go, Suvied. Two years of French in high school.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: That either makes you pretty qualified? Yeah, I think so too. Well,
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: that would make me qualified on Spanish and that's not true.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: While we're on Suvied, since my dad brought this up
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: and this is why we're gon we're continuing on this topic, UM,
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna also go ahead and introduce uh this morning,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: Stephen Ronnella, Seth Morris Spencer, new Hearth, Phil the engineer
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: and Crine Schneider Snyder always mess it up? Why Snyder's
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: from that? Snyder was the mechanic in that show, Alice,
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: which one is it? Smack me on my head and
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: tell me, Snidernier, what years that reference from? Steve? I
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: think there were reruns when I was a little boy,
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: like I told, I told said the day he looked
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: like Gomer Pile. He didn't know what I was talking about.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: And then I looked it out and it's hilarious. I
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: got because see, I think that we only watched old
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: shows when I was little, and I don't watch much anymore,
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: so all my watching was already stuff that was already old.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: Somebody made the observation yesterday that the only pop culture
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: references you like are from the eighties and eighties? Is
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: a modernor that would be like that. I almost don't
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: like that because it's too new. Like if I see
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: someone who's like pretty ripped, I'll say that, you know,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: it looks like Lou Frigno, um, and I'm like, what
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: the hell? So so uh Sue uh Sue vied. We
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: gotta have to put this one of the rest, because
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: I gotta explain now this is an update about an
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: update a long time ago. I hate to even review
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: this people a long time ago. I'm trying to do
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: as quick as possible. Guy wrote in saying, hey man, my,
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: we were doing a home birth and some people that
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: do a home birth find it's more comfortable to do it.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: And the heated tub. They were heating the tub for
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: the new baby to emerge into the world by dipping
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: a stuvie apparatus and there, which is like a thing
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: you plug into your wall. You're honest father, being a
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: building inspector and generally hip to human safety rights. Then
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: he says, when you're in a tub full of water,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: don't put plugged in things into it with you. And
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: then we felt this probably useful to bring that up
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: because you know how many movies you see where someone
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: gets in the tub and then drops like a whatever
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: in there and it's electrocuted. So he thought, it's not
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: made for that. Definitely, don't suggest that. And then we
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: talked about how does it work, like, like, how does
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: liability work. Yanny was doing it because he didn't want to, uh,
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: he didn't want his conscience. He didn't want dead infants
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: on his conscience and newborns and I didn't want liability.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: I think there's some crossover between this on those issues.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: So that this lawyer writes in about how liability works
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: in these kind of situations, and he was explaining there's
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: a certain you know, breed of lawyer who this is
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: their bread and butter, where a dumb person does something
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: dumb and then wants to blame others when they get hurt,
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: and this plaintiff's litigation becomes like a sort of legal extortion.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: So he says, it plays out like this, like a
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: person listens to your podcast, right, they decided that I'm
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: gonna heat my top up with a suvied apparatus. They
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: get shocked in the tub, they go to the hospital.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: They're sitting in the hospital and they've seen one of
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: those attorney commercials while they're recuperating, and it's one of
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: those commercials like car wret, slip and fall, Get the
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: Justice you Deserve. They call that one number to get tough.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: They described the circumstances and extent of their injuries. The
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: plaintiff's attorney then does a little mental math and compare
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: the severity usually quantified in hospital bills to who are
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: we gonna sue? And as you trail this down, you're
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: looking for a well ensured, well funder, well known person
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: entity that could be liable at that point, it's game.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: On says in the suvied scenario that we're explaining here
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: like someone hears it on this show gets hurt. They
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: called us like get tough attorney. He's gonna start out,
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: He's gonna be curious about the su vied manufacturer for
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: a defective product design. He's gonna be curious about the
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: seller of the suvied apparatus for selling a poorly designed product.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: He's gonna be curious about the home unit building contractor
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: potentially for faulty construction or wiring. He's gonna be curious
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: about the home unit building electrician for the same reasons.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: He's gonna get curious about the landlord for renting a
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: potentially dangerous apartment. He's gonna get curious about Meatia or
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: inc for negligence and promoting and encouraging dangerous practices. He's
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: gonna get curious about the particular but who were on
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: the podcast and their personal capacity for negligence and promoting
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: and encouraging dangerous practices, and anyone else that you can
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: think of. Then it's a classic situation where though no
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: single individual is responsible, each one of these people has
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: to participate in the litigation, and therefore they carry inherent
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: risk of exposure. What happens then is you go to
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: each of these people and you lay out how you're
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: thinking about this whole thing. The pitch is something like this, Look,
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: you're gonna have to defend this lawsuit no matter what,
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: no matter what we're coming after. You're gonna have to
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: get lawyers and defend yourself. The way I'm gonna pull
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: this off, It's gonna cost you ten thousand bucks to
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: defend yourself. What you can do is just give me
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: that ten thousand now and I'll dismiss it. No embarrassments,
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: no court. But that's how this is gonna go down.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: You get a bunch of these people, they all agree
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: to it. Then you end up with a pretty decent
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: total settlement. No one ever goes in to see a jar,
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: there's no jury. Everybody just gets extorted out of their money.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: So don't put the damn suevite deal. If you're thinking
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: of suing meat eater, We're onto you. Yeah, I'll be like,
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: you know what, bro bring it on, That's what I'm
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: gonna say. I'm gonna be like, bring it up, bring
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: it up, that's where you get into that whole world,
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: you know, to hear about countersuing counter suing for dance,
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean. Uh, So here's a good segue.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: So uh a listener did write in to say this.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: Here here's where you learn that this does happen because
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: a guy says he was listening to the podcast and
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: heard about the Suevied birthing bath. It gave him an idea.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: During the big Texas deep freeze, the two twenty one
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: deep freeze, when all of his power and gases out,
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: he did use a generator and a Suevied apparatus to
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: heat water to and he said it and use his generator,
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: heated his water to a hundred and thirteen degrees, filled
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: a large shrimp pot, and then use that water debathe,
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: but not with the device in it. He said, I
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: would never have thought of this hadn't you boys mentioned it.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: So he just used it to warm up the water
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: and then moved the device and then cleaned up in
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: his shrimp pot. So he also goes out and here's
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: what here's what the good segue comes in. He also
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: goes on to explain that he works for an h
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: back company. Interestingly, if he works for an h back company,
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: how did he never think of this? It's a good point.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: I used to be on you know, LinkedIn. I used
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: to be on linked I just recently got off it again.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: But all my like associates be like some h bad
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: guy in Florida. You know. I'm like, I don't know
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: we how are we going to help each other in networking?
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: But sure we could be partners. Um, he works for
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: an h back company and ways, so they have a supply.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: This this gets so concluded. They have a supplier who
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: has a big ranch, and they allow the employees to
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: hunt the big ranch because they're all in the business relationship. Anyways,
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: two thousand five access deer died on this ranch. Throws
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: the death on this ranch. Their entire population of black
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: buck antelope died killed in that deep freeze. They were
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: loading them up in bucket loaders and burning the carcasses.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: He's like, I wish you would have been there. Would
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: have got me a lot of free meat. And man,
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: do we get a lot of feedback from people after
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: seeing the big deep freeze of just mountains of dead
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: animals and a lot of them like very highly esteemed um,
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: wild game species, right, like Neil guy, you know, as
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: our our friend Jesse Griffin's explained, like you guy in
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: South Texas is a stand in for beef. He's like ranch,
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: yoursell cows. They eat Neil guy. Um, they lost eighties
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: some on their place and experience conversation like why can't
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: you after the big deep freeze? Why can you or
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: can you not go out there and just like give
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: it to food banks or go out and cut all
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: the backstraps out and live off it. So we're taking
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: our questions to doctor Professor Chris Calkins, meet scientists at
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: University of Nebraska. And you might know Dr Calkins because
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: he was on the show before our greatest episode ever.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: I can't remember what it was called. You can't remember,
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: that's right, Yeah, the Red Cutter. You want to learn
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff about butcher and whatnot and and
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: safety protocol, uh, slaughter practices, all that stuff. Seven. I
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: listened to it twice. It was so good. Red Cutter.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: Chris Colkins, Well, thanks for the question. After that lead
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: up introduction, I'm not sure I should say anything with
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: all this litigation in the air. Yeah you did, you
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: didn't realize how the ring started. You didn't realize how
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: liable you were. That's it. We we talked last time
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: about the fact that when you harvest an animal that
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: there is the risk that bacteria will migrate from the
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: gut into the meat and create a food safety problem.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: That's regardless of the quality of the meat. There is
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: that health risk. And so if we have an animal
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: that dies because of a cold spell, we have that
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: same concern about duration between when death occurs and when
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: you're able to remove the guts and remove the source
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: of health risk from the animal. And so it's really
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: easy to think about, Gosh, if we're just freezing meat,
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: then frozen meat is okay to eat, which certainly frozen
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: meat is safe. But I would start by saying, we
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: need to remember that animals and people can freeze to
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: death at at freezing temperatures. It doesn't have to be
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: so many degrees below zero, and the body doesn't instantly
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: freeze stiff. It takes a long time to remove the
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: heat to be able to freeze something solid, and so
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: that time duration between death and freezing of the meat
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: is the time at which the health risk occurs. So
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: that's a long way for me to say that if
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: I come upon an animal that's frozen, I'm not interested
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: in eating the meat because of a health concern and
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: health consideration. Chris, can you explain the process of death,
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: the physiological processes of death. You know, in freezing temperatures,
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: these animals in dying go through what well, you know,
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: it's uh, there's some similarities here between the what the
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: animal experiences and what humans experience in a hypothermia case. Right,
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: So the body does two things. First of all, it
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: tries to retain heat, right, prevent heat loss. So we
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: do that by closing down the blood vessels on our extremities,
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: and we try and centralize the blood more towards the
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: center of the animal. And of course there's a whole
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: lot of physiological stress that goes on. So we're gonna
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: dump adrenaline and cortisol and everything else into the bloodstream
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: and that's going to trigger a whole set of reactions.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: So the first thing have this body tries to retain heat,
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: and then secondly it says I'm getting cold, I need
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: to produce heat, and so that production of heat we
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: start increasing metabolic rates that causes UH. In humans, we
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: get muscle shivering. Uh. In animals, we're going to move
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: to glycogen and fats as sources of energy because we
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: have this energy deficit and the metabolic consequences of that.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: Ultimately we we change blood chemistry. Um, we start to
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: produce cold induced production of urine. All of that disrupt
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: the electrolytes and eventually the animal will die through cardiac arrest.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: Oh that's what winds up happening, Chris. I understand what
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: you're saying about the you know, the mystery of time
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: of death. And I can also understand how someone would
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: think while the animal, like an animal froze to death,
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: so it must have been you know, it must have
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: been preserved, because we associate coldness with preservation. So I
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: get that you'd have that that logical mistake of not
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: realizing that then still retains body heat for potentially hours
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: and maybe never freezes. But let's say there was a
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: situation where, um, I know this is like this is
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: macab But let's say there's a situation where you you
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: see the animal expired. Okay, um, so you know that
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: it frolls to death. I was there at the moment
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: of death. What would you think at that point about
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: like the quality of flesh of something that went through
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: that kind of death when you compare it to in
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: a controlled commercial atmosphere. They're looking for low stress, very
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: quick death. Well, you're right. Commercially, that's exactly what the
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: goal is is low stress and quick death. But if
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: you happen upon an animal and you happen to see
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: its last breath it expires because it's cold outside, that
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: that animal is still going to be warm. That body
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: will not be in rigor mortis. It will be very
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: similar to what you see if you were to go
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: shoot a deer and uh, it might be cold outside,
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: but you know, the temperature of the body itself is
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: still going to be quite high. And so at that instant,
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: from a temperature standpoint, you could say, Okay, I've found
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: it quick enough. Now I have the possibility of maybe
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: considering whether I want to save the meat or not.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: But but think about all of those things that happened
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: that caused that animal to expire. The blood chemistry is
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: messed up, you have metabolic acidosis that the acid in
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: the body has been produced. We start to see damage
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: to the internal lining of the gut, which potentially could
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: make it easier for bacteria tics to go. The blood
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: is full of extra dose of stress hormones, all of
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: those things. Even if you might be able to eat
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: it and might might think it's gonna be okay, those
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: are those are not ideal conditions for how you would
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: harvest meat from a game animal. And so you're really
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: dealing with an animal that Remember, all of those conditions
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: got so bad that the animal died as a result
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: of the change to biochemistry inside that muscle. I wouldn't
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: be anxious to bite into that kind of physiological situation
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: in animals as as a result of the animal having
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: pros it today. Can let me hit you with with
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: one more um, this is great. So I already know
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: the answer to this, But this is more of a
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: less of a professional question, more of a personal question.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: I think I know the answer to it. When you look,
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: if you see footage like this um or some of
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: these images that came out of that deep freeze of
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: just these massive mounds of dead animals um in your head,
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: are you thinking, oh, there's some things that could be
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: done or that we could do to salvage that or
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: use that, or you just you look and you're like
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: burn it, bury it. I mean, there's nothing to be
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: done here. I mean, I, like everybody else, I hate
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: to see product wasted. And so you're I understand the tendency.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: Don't want to say it ought to be okay to
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: go ahead and eat this. Um. But if if an
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: if a commercial animal died that way, our federal inspection
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: system would not allow that product to be sold. That's interesting. Um,
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: there's a there truly is uh concerns and considerations about
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: the aesthetics of how that animal died in a issue
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: to all the chemistry changes that are taking place that
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: would really give you cause to pause. Now, you know,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: you can always build a scenario that maybe we're freezing
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: to death too, and if we don't eat, we die,
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: and so in a situation like that, would I be
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: willing to eat the product? Well, you know, given the alternatives,
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: perhaps so. But but every step along the way, you're
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: increasing risk of of to your health. And again I
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: emphasize that it got so bad for that animal that
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: that animal's health was risk to the point where the
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: animal died. And now you want to eat it, you know,
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: if you if you want to eat it when it
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: starts getting cold, that's one thing. But to to to
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: take something that already died um from from a cold
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: situation like this, you that animal has already had a
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: whole lot of metabolic changes taking place inside the body
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: trying to fight off that ultimate death. And when you
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: when you take uh that product, when you take that meat,
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: then it has the consequence of all of those metabolic
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: changes that have occurred that tried to keep that animal alive.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: And those are that that would be an unnatural amount
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: of biological changes that you normally find when you shoot
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: an animal or when an animals commercially harvested for meat. Excellent,
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: this is great. I'll finally be able to sleep at
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: night without the guilt of having not run down to Texas.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: There you go. You know, in Nebraska here a few
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: weeks ago we had minus thirty one degrees as a
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: cold temperature in February. Now that's not a typical fact.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: That was a record low temperature. But we didn't have
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: every every wild animal or even every commercial animal in
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: the state die. Their acclama did over the course of
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: the winter to um to accommodate some of those temperatures,
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: and so that cold situation that occurred in Texas, and
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: my wife's from Texas, so I've I've been there plenty,
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: and I you know, it's a great state. But those
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: animals were not acclimated to a sudden shift in temperature,
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: so biologically their response was greater than it would be
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: for an animal, for example, in Nebraska that would experience
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: a similar condition. Huh, that's a good point. Let me
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: let me hear another one. And I really appreciate that
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: you're willing to um entertain these kind of you know,
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: sort of strange out there questions, but the legitimate questions.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: These are questions we get from people. We had recently
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: had I had recently put a photo on Instagram that
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: Alignment working in New York had found where a I
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: think it was a four thousand, eight hundred vault overhead
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: power line had collapsed and it had landed on a buck.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: It must have been summertime, like it was a white
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: tail and still in velvet, landed on the buck and obviously,
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: you know, killed the buck and seemed to kind of
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: burn a big deep line across it. And then we
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: had a lot of people sending photos of you know,
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: black bears that declimbed power lines. Just how they climb
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: a tree, but climbed a power line and got electricute
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: all these things. I had no idea there's this much
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: stuff out there being electrocuted. And when you consider that
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: in a in a commercial slaughter practice, as we discussed
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: when you came on the show, you explained in great
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: detail about during the slaughter process how they do use
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: um electricity during the slaught, like post post mortem electricity
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: during the slaughter process. If you were sitting there and
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: you saw all of a sudden, like a a great
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: a steer whatever the hell like a like the per
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: fixed specimen and it steps on a wire and wham
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: gets killed by electricity, then what's in your head? I
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: got you like, oh, I better get my knife sharpened up?
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: Or are you like, damn, there goes my good cow
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: because it doesn't go through that process of like the
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: body starting to have a stress response. Yeah, so in
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: that case you're dealing with instant death. And as we
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: just talked about, you can you can use um. It's
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: not done for cattle, but for for other species you
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: can use electricity. It is a U s d A
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: approved method of dispatch for animals. And so if I'm
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: standing there and that animal gets you know, the bigger
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: likelihood of what happens is a bolt of lightning, And
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: every now and then there will be a whole crowd
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: of cattle crowded together. A bolt of lightning will come
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: along and it'll it'll take out twenty or thirty animals.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: So that's a that's an instantaneous death. And you could
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: certainly go harvest the product at that point. And just
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: as if you'd shot your your animal, and you'd be
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: good to go. So as long as you got to
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: it immediately after the electrocution, then I would say that
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: that's that's that's a legitimate cause of death for an animal.
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: Happened quickly, not time for a real metabolic response and
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: all the rest of those things. You're probably good to
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: go under that case. Now, if you if you wander
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: on that same animal, uh, and you can see that
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: it was killed by electricity, but it's already stiff, it's
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: already in rigor. You know, it could have been there
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: six eight hours or more. And once again, the time
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: frame is way too long from death to harvest to
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: to to want to run a risk of capturing product
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: under those conditions. Excellent. I'm glad we called all right,
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: Dr Chris Calkins, thank you very very much. Um, we
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: need to get you here for real sometime. Yes, absolutely,
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: I appreciate you joining us remotely. University of Nebraska. Correct,
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: that is correct, Yes, thank you sir, all right, thank
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: you all yeah. Yeah, I need to tell us you're
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: you're tell us you're how you narrowly escape death from
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: a mountain lion. Buddy, I'm still shaking after that one.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: Zack Sandow and I Zack from on X. We're hunting,
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: uh the opening weekend of Montana's turkey season, and uh,
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: I'll skip through the part where we didn't make the
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: right moves in the morning to get on these birds
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: that we had so lokated so well the evening before.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: Man like we went to sleep going like did turkey
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: in the morning. But yeah, what's that someone's got a
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: saying about that roosted ain't roasted or something like that. Well, yeah,
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: we were, we were singing that song in the morning. Anyways.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: You also skip the part where you killed one the
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: day before, so you were already successful at this point.
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: That's right, that's right, different spot though, the same spot,
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: same spot. Yeah. Um, he's modest. I'll started right out
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: with that. Well, you know, if I was the reason
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: meing is because I shot the turkey, slowed it down
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: a little bit, and then I did not have a
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: window for a follow up shot. Zack polished him off
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: and he got that was his bird. Obviously quite about that, Yeah,
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: he was trying to so the next morning, So that
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: couple hours in the morning, we're like, all right, this
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: ain't working, and and luckily we can hear a distant
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: golber like way on this ridge above us, and so
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: we strip our layers off. It might have been the
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: coldest turkey morning I've ever had, twenty three degrees when
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: we got out of the truck. Yeah, they don't want
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: to get out of the treaty too early when that's
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: going on. Sometimes, Like I wore my puffy pants to
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: this setup for that. That's incredible, man. So we strip
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: off some layers we had about We figured we could
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: have close to a thousand feet of elevation game and uh,
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: we get up there and one gobbler turns into like two,
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: and then as we get closer, we realized there's quite
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: a few gobblers going and we're working in there. It's
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: just real thick a lot of dead fall. There's been
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: like a wind event in this area, and so just
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: hard to kind of get through the wind event. Yeah,
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: wind event that just like a big trees flattened in
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: the same direction. Well just like you could tell fresh
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: trees have recently been blown over with you and uh,
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: it's it's just brushy. It's real hard to move anywhere.
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: Slow lead or sorry quietly, Um it was making me
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: move slow. Anyways, We're getting close and trying to figure
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: out how to get in on these turkeys when all
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: of a sudden, hen sparks up like too close for comfort,
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: to the point where we're like we we just have
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: to sit down, Like we can't move around anymore now,
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: and now we're risk at busting the flock, so we'll
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: just sit down and kind of see what happens. And
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: we're sitting on sort of one side of a a
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: gully kind of drainage feature that's on the side of
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: this mountain and opposite of us as a slope that's
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: kind of face enough, and this drainage goes up to
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: our left and it actually kind of benches out and
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: that's where these turkeys are. We're sitting there for a while,
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: and I call a little bit out him at the flock,
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: and you know, the flocks is hammering every time I call,
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: but I knew that it wasn't gonna happen. Like they
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: were just happy to be gobbling at me, but they
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: wasn't really feeling real confident that one was going to
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: break off and just come check me out. Like I
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: could hear a bunch of hands and they're going off.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: They had what they needed. So eventually I'm like, oh,
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: I'm just gonna shut up and hopefully they'll just fade
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: away and then we can swoop around and you know,
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: going for another setup. And it's been maybe ten or
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: fifteen minutes and they're all still there, the hands still
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: clucking away and uh down to my right in this
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: gully and again like four or five sometimes even six
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: ft of of all kinds of thick understory type brush
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: from seth um can you do sound effects? Yeah? Okay,
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: sound effects? Ah well, he's got to fill in some
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: goggles right now. Okay, okay, that's pretty good. Now you'll
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: you'll you'll get your cues all right. Yeah, there's a hand,
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: the hand that we've been listening to. She's doing like
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: a Um, it's one of those where you think it's
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: like it's like a like between a cluck and a putt,
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: but very soft. Yeah, but like fifty times in a row,
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: you get busy. There's five she's she's a yakking. Um. Anyways,
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: we're sitting there. It's the turkeys are still kind of going,
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: but we've been quiet for a while, and uh, I'm
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: just leaving. I'm leaning kind of the shadow of of
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: a great big I don't know, if of a spruce
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: or a fir tree something like that. It must have
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: been two or three ft wide, and uh, down this
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: gully kind of off to my right, I hear and
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: I wish I just could remember it better because it's
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: like maybe the most exciting part of the whole story.
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: But it's like it's it's in my mind. It registers
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: as air coming out of an animal's mouth. Very well.
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: Could have been just that might have been a touch
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: more gir or growl, yeah, something like that. That's the
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: last thing I want to hear when I'm out. I
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: feel like I'm there. I just started shooting off in
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: that direction. Right after that. I can hear footsteps like that.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: Well they're soft, like yeah, but a little bit of
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: like crunching of pine needles and and and you know
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: the detritus. I'm getting the mood now, yeah, do all
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: my work for me, said, I tell Zack. I'm like, dude,
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: get your camera ready, because he had been you know,
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: running the camera a little bit since he wasn't carrying
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: a shotgun, since he was tagged out and still talking
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: or no, yeah, they're all They're all still up there,
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: yakking away in a gobble every now your attention isn't
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: focused entirely different directions. At this point, I'm looking down
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: the hill and uh, says that, get your phone out.
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: I think there's a bear coming up the coming up
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: the draw. And the only reason I said bears because
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: just like that's sort of what I'm expecting in like
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: this landscape, um, and something that could hear footsteps, so well,
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: I figured, you know, bear. And a second later, I'm like,
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: oh no, it's tam I'm like, it's just a deer
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: zacht you know, video it anyways, you know it's gonna
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: walk great bias. I'm like, deer's got a tail, it's
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: a mountain lion. And uh, immediately you know acts like
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: holy shit, you know, and there's actually two mountain lions
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: that we can see at first, and they're smaller, so
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: this is all again happening fast. And as they take
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: a few more stuff, yeah yeah, yeah, I'm guessing there
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: at least a year old pounds um fifteen yards ish. Yeah, yeah,
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: pretty close. And they as soon as they sort of
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: like we're kind of talking and maybe moving our heads
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: a little bit, and you know, full cam, we've got
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: our face max on and they immediately catch our movement
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: and the one first just sort of snarls and growls
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: at us. The lead. Now, yeah, then it's a little
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: Then it's sibling turns and does ninety degrees. So instead
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: of going up, this draw turns ninety degrees and takes
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: like three or four steps and like a low crouch
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: slinking towards you, you know shape, and then kind of
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: then stops and does the same thing. And it's like
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: realizing that, like, oh, I thought you were like the turkey.
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: I was about too, that I'm hunting that I might
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: pounce on it, But now I'm realizing you're not, and
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: I'm kind of pissed about it. This is what I
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: was reading from its snarl, So it's snarls too. And
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: then at that point I'm like, all right, um, that's
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: enough of that. And you know, I then took my
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: shotgun from my lap and I pointed at it, and
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: that movement was enough to spook it, and then it's
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: sibling spooked, and then mama spooked off too. But uh yeah,
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: pretty neat little wildlife encounter. That's good fun man, that's cool.
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: Get your get your get your heart bumping. For the
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: sake of the story, I was hoping you'd have like
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: a tugboat go by, or like Christopher walking show up,
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: so would really just challenge Seth. I was walking apart
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: for Seth. You know what did keep the gobblers goblin though,
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: was the Canada geese that kept flying up and down
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: the river. Oh I can't good work boys. Unfortunately, they
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: spooked towards the flock of turkeys and we did not
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: hear another Oh that shut him up pretty good. Oh
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: there was no clucking, no yelping, no goblin. And we
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: hiked around that mountain for another thirty minutes and they
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: were going just disappeared. That means it's time to be quiet.
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: When myline runs by, they're out, you know, you're all
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: was great stories about people getting you know, their hats
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: taken off top of their head from Bob Cats and
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: lines and stuff when they're hunting turkeys. Yeah, yeah, when
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: they're when one stocking at Yet you're not like this
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: is a good opportunity to maybe get a real close,
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: even closer encounter with the mountline. Yeah. I had a
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: good segue earlier, if you remember, I took it from
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: like really seamlessly from Sue vied to meet scientists. This guy,
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: there's a doctor that wrote us in, wrote into us.
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: I don't know how he pronounces his name, Mark slab
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: a empty slawba slab. I don't know yea Mark slab
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: a mpt slab. Very articulate man. He wrote in with
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: a segway of his own. He said, there's a there's
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: a recognizing it as a transition between desparate subjects. But
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: he was tying together two things we were talking about
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: that we didn't make a link. On one. We did
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: an episode where we discussed in what he calls excellent detail,
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: the implications of lead poisoning on both wildlife and humans.
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: Was referring to as a discussion we had about um
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: it is a well known fact. What you do with
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: this fact is up to you, But it is a
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: well known fact that lead from bullet fragments in carcasses
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: has the potential can lead to raptor death. UM. And
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: that lad shot on the landscape UH used to lead
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: to waterfowl death. Now, whether it's you know, the debate
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: is lots of things that all the time, we're not
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: talking about population. We are are not talking about population
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: level impact. Cars killed wildlife, windmills kill wildlife, fences killed wildlife. UM,
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: the windows in your house kill wildlife. And yes, bullets
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: killed wildlife? What you do with that? Um? Like we
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: kind of got an all that right, and then we
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: talked about how they're just as not. In my view,
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: and I've read more than most, there's no convincing evidence, um,
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: that that hunters are the wild game diet is giving
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: you elevated levels of lead like, no one's proven this
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: in fact, I think you know, when you look at it,
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: people are gonna have a fit when I say this,
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: But you know, you look at like urban like people
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: that live in in very urban environments often have higher
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: levels of lead than people who live in rural environments
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: but eat nothing but wild game because you have lead
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: from one Uh, you have all the lead and soil
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: from leaded fuel, lead paints. There's a lot of lead
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: out there, and so it's hard to say conclusively like
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: oh yeah, and people need a lot of that, dear meat,
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: have more because there's other factors such as like where
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: you live, that are more profound than what you might
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: Let's making sense to Crins nodding, Yeah, I mean I
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: grew up in a city who knows, who knows? Right,
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: I can see the lead blee now your eyeballs right now? Uh,
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: goes on to say this. He goes on to say that, Um,
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: the connection he founds. We later we're talking to our guest,
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: Preston Pittman, who's been shot twice hunting turkeys, and he
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: points out to say that like in the medical profession,
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: you despite all the Westerns you watch, in the medical profession,
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: they are not eager to dig pellets and bullets and
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: stuff out of people. You remove the pellet or bullet
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: if it's location is like of immediate concern, it's safer
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: to leave it in there then it is to drag
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: it out of there. Um, Jim Bridger, I'll point out
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: carried a uh. I think it was a steel broadhead.
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: I can remember the steeler flint in his shoulder blade
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: for two years before a guy dug it out. And
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: I think the guy that dug it out was the
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: He was like part of the Whipman massacre and dug
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: it out. And some people say it was like the
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: first official surgery, like the first Western style euro European
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: style surgery to occur in the American wessels, when you know,
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: like performed by a doctor. When Bridger had this thing
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: yank cut out of his shoulder blade, but you generally
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: leave him in there. But he does say folks who
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: have retained bullet fragments should be aware that lead toxicity
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: can occur over a long period of time and blood
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: levels can be monitored if they are aware of the risk.
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: It is not an immediate thing. You can have a
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: bunch of shotgun pellets in you in a long time
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: could go by and all of a sudden you start
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: to develop lead issues from carrying not in your stomach,
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: not words in your digestion track where it's like slowly
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: dissolving and your muscle can lead to trouble. So if
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: you're carrying around a bunch of ammo. Consider that, and
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: plenty of people are man. I was surprised by this.
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: Gunshot wounds and estimated hundred and fifteen thousand injuries in
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: the United States per year or non fatal bullet removed.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: He goes on to say bullet removal is not routinely
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: indicated for victims of gunshot injuries with retained bullet fragments,
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: which are called rbfs, unless it could be caused immediate
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: morbidity damn. So Robert Apernathy and uh Press and Pittman
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: should both get there checked periodic lead checking. Are you
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: not carrying around a babe from you were a kid? No? Well,
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: I thought you were. Oh. Mark also says this, says,
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: my personal experience with this comes as an ophthalmologist removing
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: shotgun pellets from the face and orbits of trauma patients,
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: I would say, most commonly after being shotgun during drug deals.
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: He says that my hope is that the average outdoorsman
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: is better at seeking good follow up care than those individuals.
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: So maybe this will be useful information. I think, well,
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: that Johnny, very useful information. Here's another one. This is
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: really interesting, Guy Rode in it used to guide um
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: he does remote maybe does did does remote white water
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: canoe trips like extended whitewater canoe trips. And he says
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: this isn't well known, but it's like known. But on
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: a on a river in Canada's Northwest territories called the
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: South Nahani River, there is a cave that holds the
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: full skeleton full skeletons of over one hundred dollar sheep
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: that accumulated there from two thousand years ago to about
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: two hundred years ago. And it's a The cave entrance
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: is downward sloping. All the sheep or at the bottom
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: of the slope. The plausible theory is that that slope
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: would become icy and the sheep could make their way
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: down in they'd walk down into the cave, but then
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: not be able to ascend the icy slope. And he said,
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: laying on the top of those one dollar sheep skeletons
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: when he was there is a porcupine dead on top
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: of them. He said, look like he was up there
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: feeding on them. All. That reminds me. You know, that's
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: such a long period of time, right, So you have
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: a hundred sheep that died over potentially eight hundred years.
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: When I was at the I went to my first
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: date with my wife. We went to the Librea tar
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: pits in l A. And um, we're kind of like,
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: neither of us was from there, but we went there. Um,
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: and it's a whole long story. I was living an anchorage,
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: she was living. She was there for work, and I
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: went down. We went to libraa tar pits and and
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: there they have you know, they have they have a
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: display I think of a hundred and seventy dire wolf
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: skulls that came out of those pits, many short like,
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: many short faced bears, many mammoths, dozens and dozens of um,
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: ancient bison forms, everything, giant ground sloss, everything just died
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: in Librea tar pits. And when you look at when
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: you read these numbers, by all this stuff that accumulating
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: these tar pits, which is like a downtown Los Angeles,
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: you think that you'd go there and just be like
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: man like dead stuff everywhere, like had you gone there
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: a long time ago. But they're saying one occurrence every
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: I think I might get this wrong, but it's something
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: like this, one occurrence every forty years would have accounted
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: for everything in there in occurrence being this baby mammoth
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: um get stuck in the tar. Okay, a sabertooth cat
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: goes out to scavenge it, he gets stuck in the tar.
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: Some vultures go to eat on them and they get
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: stuck in the tar. And then nothing needs to happen
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: for forty years. And you let that go for like
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: tens of thousands of years, and you wind up with
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: where you dig down a guitar pit and it's whatever,
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: fifty feet of packed bone. But it's not like you know,
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: it's just like now and then now and then. So yeah,
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: once every couple hundred years a doll sheep falls into
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: this cave. But then you go there and it looks
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: like holy ship. Yeah. I don't know if you guys
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: remember a long time ago we had on a guest
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: who he was an anthropologist. Um Matt that Hell's that
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: guy's name? Really interesting. He was an anthropologist who um,
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: among other things, like, he would look for you know,
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: lithic remains from up and up and high mountain passes
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: and stuff. You look for lithic remains of ice age
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: hunters and other things, not melts or but another another
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: anthropologist anyhow, he was explained to us that when you're
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: trying to interpret ancient kill sites, people look at the
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: bones and people make wild extrapolations about people make wild
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: extrapolations like, oh, the skull was upside down. It must
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: have been ceremonial, you know, and you're saying, man, you
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: don't know. And one of these he was explaining is
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: we'll just take uh dear and put it in order
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: to staying like how to interpret bone dispersal, bone decay,
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: you know, in order to interpret ancient archaeological sites, they'll
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: just lay a deer out in the woods and then
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: monitor it day to day to see like what what
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: what do we see happens? You know, how far do
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: the bones go, what happens all the bones? Why, how
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: does the school get flipped over or whatever, and just
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: to kind of get a better sense. So when you're
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: deconstructing a ancient kill site, you kind of can recognize
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: what's normal was not normal, and there's this this thing
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: happened back in that we're looking at and thinking about.
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: Is they were doing it with human remains as is
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: sort of what's the word I'm looking for? Forensic? Yea
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: forensic like forensic pathology, or something. He's like body farms
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: for you know, if I don't know, if you discover
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: someone who's you know, you uncover like a skeleton, rates
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: of decay, like how long has it been there? What
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: happened to this body? Like? And uh, John McPhee once
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: wrote a piece about forensic entomology where how how investigators
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: can use the rate at which like larva and stuff
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: develops on on human remains to get a sense of
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: time of death on crime stein investigations. So anyways, they're
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: doing this thing years ago and they had all these
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: that they had human bones laid out in the woods
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: to see what happens to and they had a camera
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: on it, and we're surprised to see, uh deer. Deer
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: would come up and gnaw the bones. So there's there's
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: this footage of a deer chewing up a human rib bone. Yeah,
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: it's just like hanging out of its mouth a cigar.
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: And it talks about how um according to study, like
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: unguluts off and chew on bones. Now usually we see
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: these chewed up bones and I was like, oh, it's porcupines,
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: it's mice. Whatever the hell. Unguluts chew on bones and
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: they prefer dry bones with a rectangular cross cut. But
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: this is the first instance ever deer chewing on a
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: human bone. But I guess it is interesting thing of
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: um when you like when they eat weird stuff and sething.
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: I were just talking a minute ago about it was
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: some years ago. It was a really famous trail cam image.
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: There's a white tailed doll coming through the woods and
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: stops and starts eating nestlings, eating, but I think they're Robbins.
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: Starts eating nestlings out of a nest, plucks one out
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: and eats it, which really makes you think differently about
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: your deer meat. That does me man, Like we had
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: that turkey the are day with that giant slug in
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: his crop. I thought different to that turkey after that, really,
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: I thought different of them. Like Robert was saying about
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: that turkey kill with all those green and oles, thirteen
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: green and oles in it. What's a green and all
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: thirteen of him? Wasn't it thirteen? Yeah? I'm making that up. No,
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: that's right, he's having a feast. Oh yeah. I would
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: have been like, yeah, I'd still eat him. I'd be
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: a little bit like but would you. I'd rather be
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: like like flowers grains baker. Yeah, but like you eat
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: stuff like would you eat like a deep fried annal?
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: I haven't, but listen, I'd eat it. I just would
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: think differently of it. I think differently if I opened
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: up a bear, black bear, and I found that he
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: had a bunch of people meet in it, I would
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: think differently of the bear. Mean, yeah, okay, anyhow, go ahead,
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: seth um, tell him more about what we're talking about.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: There's a guy from Montana that rode in and said
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: that he shot a starling with an air rifle. Was
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: it my kid? There's there's a few questions I have
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: about this. I think this must have been my kid
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: that wrote in he shot he shot a starling with
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: an air rifle. One winner under a crab apple tree
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: in his neighbor's yard. So he's shooting over into his
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: neighbor's yard. Sounds like your boy again, this is my boy.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: Whitetail deer came in to the yard to eat crab
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: apples and found the startling that he shot. Um deer
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: picked it up in his mouth and appeared to be
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: chewing on it. That night, he recovered the starling from
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: his from his neighbor's yard. Like under the cover of darkness,
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: presumably another question I have. Yeah, so he went over there.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: I'm guessing it dark wuntil it gets good and dark. Yeah,
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: hopefully they're friends. And I saw that the head of
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: the starling was gone. The deer had eating it. Hm.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: And I mean you go on YouTube and google deer
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: eating birds. It's just there's no shortage of videos um
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: of deer eating birds on their God, that's unusual, man. Yeah,
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: it's like, what, well, maybe it isn't. That's what I
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: was saying, unusual seeming because by what mechanism like when
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: you look at their dental structure, it's just it's hard
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: to you know. And maybe I was saying the spencer earlier,
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: maybe dear a little more opportunists to geters and what
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: we think as far as like eating meat. Uh. Our
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: next guest though, one am. I remember a long time
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: ago I was saying that the only thing that should
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: be allowed to be on Instagram is um wild Turkey Doc.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: Like Instagram should just be that you download the app
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: and you open it up in his wild Turkey Doc.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: And that's what Instagram is like. No one else should
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: be allowed to be on there. If there was public
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: outcry and people like there has to be one more
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: Instagram page. I'll be like, okay, Nature's Metal, Um, we
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: will allow Nature's Metal. It'll be that, It'll be Wild
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: Turkey Doc. They can take turns, but Nature's Medals more
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: is far more prolific than Wild Turkey Doc. It's my favorite,
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: favorite favorite Instagram page. And what brings this full circle
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: is that there was recently a video of a of
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: a young elk eating a gosling for you, For you
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: folks that I'm sure if you're sitting there on your
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: phone right now, you gotta go, like go to Nature's Medal. Um.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: It is sometimes it's like I have strong it's sometimes
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: too much for me. It is predominantly um our. Next
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: guest Rick, who started and runs Nature's Metal, can explain,
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: but it's predominantly I would like, there's a human element now,
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: like once in a great while there is sort of
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: like a human element, like there's like humans enter the
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: scene on Nature's Medal now and then, but generally it's wildlife.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: It's like wildlife on wildlife of just some of the
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: most like graphic reminders of I don't want to say
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: brutality because that has a moral that sounds like moral
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: common name graphic reminders of reality, yeah, of predation, of
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: what goes into being alive, of the just giving of
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: zero as about the well being of your prey in
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: the animal world. Just I'm doing a horrible job, a
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: truer documentation of the circle of life more than oftentimes
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: I wasna saying, like I have a pretty strong something
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: oftentimes is more than I care to see, more than
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: I care to see. And you'll see when you go
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: on there that it has a very next to if
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: like um, like uh, I don't know, like a port
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: of graphic Instagram page. It has more censored tabs than
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: anything I follow, not that I followed that didn't come
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: out right. I'm guessing there are no corner I don't
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: know what I mean. You know, there's no extent to
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: the Internet. There's no end to it. But I don't
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: know about anything like that on Instagram. But if there was,
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: you can imagine it would be highly censored, is what
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: I'm getting at. And this has a there's a lot
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: of like what do you call it, like vie were discretion,
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: You're a discretion, You're discretion and you think but it's
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: just animals. It's like, how is it sensitive? You think
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: that it's animals doing things to animals? Why is that?
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: Why is that sensitive? That's like the six or four
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: thou dollar question. I think it begs that question, why
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: are we censoring? It's like I don't know what animals
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: could do? Bad things? Yep, huh. So we're joined by Rick,
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: who is the founder brains behind I'm guessing daily the
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: Daily Touch, the curator at nature is at Thanks for
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: joining us, Rick, Yeah, thanks for having me. How do
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: you why? Like why and how did this become a
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: thing that how did this become like your life's calling
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: here to to find this stuff and put it out
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: there for the public. So when I was a kid,
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: I couldn't get enough of those shows, like all the
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: nat GEO stuff anything on PBS. But they would always
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: cut like it would show the chase, and then it
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: would never show like what happens, Like oh they just
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: did they become friends and you know you never see
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: them again, like or what happens and you never see
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: like what really, there's nothing nice about what's happening. So yeah,
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: they would cut to the feeding. There's a chase and
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: it's unresolved. But then like later there feeding like what
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: but there's like a chapter missing. Yeah, totally right, So
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: that that was part of it. That's definitely part of
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: what we wanted to showcase the entire story. I feel
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: in my bones that it is disingenuous and a disservice
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: to animals and the animal kingdom in general that people
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: don't show this stuff. But we also like try and
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: stay away from certain things, Like I get a lot
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: of submissions about like things that I cannot show on
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: Instagram that will get me kicked off, and that's those
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: are things that we learned from the other accounts getting
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: taken down and stuff. Are you allowed to give us
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: an example of something? There's one. There's one that I
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: get sent every couple of weeks of a crocodile somewhere
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: in Africa with human remains in its mouth, swimming down
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: like a river or something. But like it's the guy's
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: head and arms sticking out of the crocodile's mouth. It's
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: just something I can't I can't show that. Man, the
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: account is has reached the point where I would like
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: to keep it as I can. Yeah, how many followers
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: do you currently have on your account? It's insane. That's
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: around three million, three point one. I think it's above that.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: I see Crean's notes that she has that you. So
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: you have a long relationship with with photography too, because
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: I didn't know this about you. You were metal band photographer.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: I was in metal bands for a long time, like
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: for twelve years of my life. While I was doing
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: this account, it was like my my I would do
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: my day job. I'd be a rehearsal for three hours,
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: and then I'd go home and try and figure out
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: what I was gonna post tomorrow or something. And at
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: the same time as I was doing all that, I've
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: met all these other musicians and I would just show
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: up to their shows end up taking pictures, and then
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: I bought a camera so i'd have something better than
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: cell phone photos, and then it progressed from there. That's
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: also where the name comes from. To the music that
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: I like is metal. It's always gonna be that until
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: I'm ninety years old. It will be metal. I don't
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: want to miss you. Usually when people say that something's ironic,
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: it's not. So I'm trying to think this is actually ironic,
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: but I don't know. Someone listen, listen to my sentence
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: and tell me you think this is ironic or not.
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: You were inspired originally by what you felt were omissions
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: in the sort of nat geo ish where I'm using
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: this as a sort of like a like a placeholder
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: for you know, high end nature documentary that nat Geo
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: was leaving out part of the story, and you were
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: filling in those blanks. But now you get this is
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: an ironic. Now you get material from the people who
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: are capturing that material, and they're giving you the stuff
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: that like, they won't let me use this. Uh it's
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: too graphic for my outlet, it's too graphic for the
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: media place I work with. It has to be out there.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: I'll send to this guy. I don't know it was ironic,
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: you know what. That's That's a great point. There's not
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: a lot of things that we won't show, but it's
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: there are things that we can't. I understand why Nagial
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: kind of censors themselves. Not everybody's into that graphics stuff.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: My limits are not their limits. My limits are like
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: human humans being killed by some animal. That's my limit.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: I'm not showing that. Uh Rick, What was the most
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: impactful post you've ever shared on Instagram. The first one
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: Joe Rogan reposted it was a woodpecker drilling its beak
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: into these baby doves, like just hammering it right into them.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: Really got a very nice post. You never saw that
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: one still up on the page. It's right at the bottom.
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: It was the first one that Rogan went crazy. He
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: went he went nuts. He reposted on his Instagram. The
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: account went crazy then, right and I thought it was over.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: I thought, I was like, that's really cool. I'm really
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: happy that happened. But then he goes on his podcast
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: a couple of days later and starts talking about it,
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: and then it really went crazy. So from there, that's
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: that's where we got our all of our traction came from.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: That one post elevated the account to where it is now. Basically,
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: while Steve is trying to find that I'm watching it
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: right now. It's too much for me. That's brutal. Yeah,
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: it's too much for me. Describe what you're seeing or
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: what you can't stomach. What species is that? My Initially,
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: I mean it's a it's a woodpecker species. It's in
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: a cactus, so it's down south. He's got a bird
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: nest in a cactus and it's just just gradually like
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: like very aggressively woodpeckering a baby bird. It's not dying quickly,
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: and it's also consuming head matter as it just Yeah,
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: it's a bit much. Not not in a bad way,
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: not in a bad way. I just I wouldn't show
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: my kids, Yea. I wouldn't expect anybody to. I share
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: some of your posts with my kids, but I don't
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: let them do is then just start cruising around looking.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: I like share them like here's a thing and then
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: this is over. Does everybody understand, like we're gonna look
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: at this and that's it, and we look and we
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: go away. You know that's understandable. Man, Who are some
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: famous followers that you have? Like, do you have a
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: list celebrities that interact with the account? The most famous,
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: I would say the woman, the person with the most
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: followers that interacts with us. Well, Connor McGregor has interacted
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: with us more than one time, like comments wise that
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: we have, like some comments back and forth, what ever,
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: just like fun things. It's just crazy to be talking
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: to someone like that. But the guy with the most
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: followers that follows us has to be Bieber. It's gotta
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: be Justin Biebers. The most surprising one of all of
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: them is him, and he's actually reposted us before, which
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: is like the craziest thing. Nature's Metal was on BuzzFeed
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: because of Justin Bieber because he got in trouble for
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: it because he posted on them with a tire with
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: a monkey in its mouth and he shared it. What
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: the fund you doing? Justin's that Canadian connection you guys have.
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: What is your attitude towards fake images? And have you
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: ever been duped? Yeah, and in the beginning we were.
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: Now my eye has gotten a lot better, but it
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: happened a couple of times. I'm not gonna say all
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: of them were, but one I remember for sure is, um,
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: these walls are trying to take down this bison, and
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: the bison hit the wolf sent it flying right. I
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: was like, well, that's really cool photo. Totally fake. Oh yeah,
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: I wanted it to be real. I posted it like
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: it was real, and it was a couple of years ago.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: It's not on our account anymore, but I had a
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: couple of people that I message now to verify photos.
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: Is this even possible? Because it damages our integrity by
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: posting something that isn't true, and that's the last thing
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: I want to do is post something that's fake. I
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: actually got called out a couple of months ago because
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: there's a photographer this notorious for staging his photos, Like
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: he'll send he'll put a mouse on like a branch
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: of a tree and just like basically feed a wild
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: snake and just start taking photos of it. They have
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: been caught doing this. He's been caught doing this a lot,
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: but sometimes they sneak through. Now I know the guy's name,
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: so I just make sure I don't post anything by him,
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: because you can't. I don't know if they're true or not,
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: but I just try and do my due diligence. You
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: know a thing I often think about, um when when
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: someone's in the business of soul shoulder the business of video,
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: and they're very existence relies strictly on like an outside
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: streaming or an outside video platform that's that's user generated.
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: So we always talk about YouTubers, right, like, if you're
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: a YouTuber and strictly a YouTuber, you're one policy decision
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: away at YouTube from going extinct. And when you've built,
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: like when you've done the work it takes and built
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: this massive audience to consume something. You're still operating on
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: a platform where you don't even have a seat at
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: the table, right, Like, there's probably not even a courtesy
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: call the day that you get shut down. But have
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: you gotten to a point now where you have a
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: diet that you're able to have a dialogue with the platform?
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: Are you just sitting back trying to like figure out
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: what they think and what their requirements are and you're
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: operating in the dark as the how to like walk
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: this razor's edge of compelling but not like to compelling.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: There is no communication with Facebook. Remember the monolith in
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: two thousand one Space Odyssey. It's like trying to talk
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: to that thing. They just exist. They just exist on
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: their own and you don't get you don't get to
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: speak to them. So to answer that question, it has
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: gotten better, but it's still you're still like talking to
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: the black wall. You're right, the policy decision could sink
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: us tomorrow. We and we would have no warning and
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: no recourse. So we're just hoping that we can expand,
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: like we're trying to expand to different platforms if that
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: ever happens. That could never could also never hop because
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: there is all you said it earlier. Um, it's animals.
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: These aren't These aren't malicious acts. These are animals doing
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: it to animals, And that's why we try and stay
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: away from humanity at all costs. Unless it's always wondered
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: about that, man, But I hadn't thought about that element
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: of it. Yeah, it gives you, like, it provides a
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: certain groundcover. Man. Yeah, it's vital that we stick to
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: animals because if as soon as we start showing humans
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: getting hurt, that gives them grounds to at least in
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: my mind. But because we're so big, like, because we've
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: gotten to this point, we really have to watch where
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: we step to stay alive. What in your mind is
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: the most compelling criticism of what you do? Like, what
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: is the criticism that you think like, oh, yeah, I
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: can see that there's something there. This actually wasn't a
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: criticism directed to me. It was directed at some It
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: was directed at a photographer that posted something that we
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: ended up using. His said, you're doing the animals of
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: this service by showing them act in these primal ways
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: because people would think that they were lesser. Me. Yeah,
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: I think that was his point. Um, I actually did
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: read that comment, and I thought about it for a while,
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: and I'm not I'm not sure he's wrong, and I
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: won't say he's wrong, but what I am sure of
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: is not showing it kind of creates this like fantasy
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: world where they don't do that, and I that's the
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: one thing I don't want to do. Too much for
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: one person is educational to someone else. They need to know.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: Some people just need to know these things. Do you
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: know that half of my audience did not I wouldn't
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: say half a lot of them didn't know dear shed
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: their rattlers every year. Mhm. They had no idea. That's
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: like so soft core compared to what we do, but
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: it's very people were riveted by did no idea. So
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: things like that just extrapolate that to other things, like
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: you were talking about deer eating birds, squirrels do that.
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: There's so many ground animals that eat other animals that
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: just isn't shown. People need to know that. People need
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: to know that dead bodies in the wild. It's like
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: it's like it's like dropping McDonald's in like a schoolyard.
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: How long do you think that's gonna last in the
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: school yard? Not long? That might be the worst analogy
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: I've ever come up with. No, I'm tracking though, man
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: like it. What's the ideal predator for you to post to,
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: like guarantee engagement, like a shark, bear, croc lion, snake,
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: something else. Bears are up there, definitely. I feel like
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: we we showcase lions a lot, so they don't get
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: the pop that they used to get. Tigers are big
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: because there's not a lot of tiger footage. It's hard
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: to come by, and it's hard to come by, um
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: through the proper channels too, because you have we have
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: to ask permission for everything we post on our on
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: our page. Now, sharks for sure, but the highest one
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: seems to be like, bears are like rare stuff like um,
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: those uh, those Japanese hornets. Anytime we post anything about
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: those Japanese hornets, it goes through the roof. But they're
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: very hard to come by. The footage is hard to
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 1: come by, So so your your audience is your audience
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: is educated enough at this point that no one they're
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: seeing something fresh. Oh yeah, there's people that have been
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: following me from day one and I still get I
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 1: still get comments it's like, oh, that's the first time
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: you've ever showed that at Wolverine footage is hard, very
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: hard to come by, which I would love to love
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: to show those animals, but there's not a lot of
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: footage that exists of them. They're very reclusive of the
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: ship that you put on there. I would never see
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: in real life. Like it gives me like I can
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: go there to see things that actually happened that I
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: would never see, Like I I don't know some of
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: that stuff I would see, and some of it I
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: will see in the future. But like like a crocodile,
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: like killing an ana condor or something, I just don't
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: foresee myself every visually like visually seen that in real life.
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: But I can go to this page and see it. Yeah, well,
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: I was thinking about it. It's like everybody wants to
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: be like, oh, it's too much for me. It's too
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: much for me. But if you booked yourself fancy ass
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: trips to Africa on a photo of Safari and you
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: had two outcomes, you come home and be like it
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: was great, look at all these pictures of sunsets and
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: these grazing antelope, and then uh, I even got a
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: picture of a copulating pair of lions. I was wonderful
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: or you can be like, dude, I was at this
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: pond and that's the abro was there, and a croc
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: was there in a buffalo and they all started eating
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: each other and ripping each other apart, and holy ship, right,
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: like what what do you think the average person wants
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: to come back from that trip saying that they experienced, Yeah,
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: the ladder. They want to see the crazy ship. You know,
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: if you see some pigeons on a rock wall, like
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: on a cliff face, and you see a right a
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: rafter paregrin flying overhead, you're kind of rooting for the
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: paragrin to come down to get one, because there's just
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: something to there's something that either wants to witness it.
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: But one of the things that like, there's there's a
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: lot of reasons a lot of the photography on nature
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: is meant like the photography is wonderful, Like there's a
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: you know, a lot of it. I mean, some of
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: it's just like ad hoc Joe blow right, but a
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: lot of it's like skilled professionals taking amazing photos. So
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: does that which is great just good quality imagery. And
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: there's a bunch of other things I like about it.
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: But one of the things that might not be immediate,
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: like might not be readily. Um, that might not readily
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: come to mind to people. Because I'm also interested in
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: the audience, like I'm I'm as interested in the audience
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: in the comments section is I am in the image,
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: because what I find so peculiar is how the audience
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: of nature is metal is so comfortable, even celebratory of
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: suffering in the animal world, depending on where the suffering
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: is coming from. It's like the most jovial, backslapping, happy,
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: making funny jokes about something that is an excruciating pain,
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: which is okay because the pain is caused by an animal.
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: And you can only imagine if they were witnessing something
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: that had a human hand in it, that joviality and
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: happiness and like, yeah, get them, tear them to pieces,
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: let's make funny captions that melts man. And I'm very
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: curious in the human brain. Um, why one is so
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: fun for people and the other one is so distressing? Uh.
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: And that's not something you're ever going to answer, but
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: I like to look at it and be like, why
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: do why does that make people happy? They just like
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: that suffering if it's coming from the right place. That's funny,
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: and I don't get it. There is an answer to that,
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: I don't have it. But when you look at that
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: happening to a human, you could put yourself in that
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: situation and be like, I don't want that to happen
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: to me. But when it happens to an animal, it's like, wow,
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: if if if that thing didn't do that, it wouldn't
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: be eating, it would starve to death. That could I
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: don't know that could be the answer. It is a
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 1: it is a hard question to answer. Actually, yeah, and
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: I don't I'm not posing this. I'm not posing this
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: as any sort of condemnation of it because it's not
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: where it's And I think, and I'll say this about
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: I'll say this about Nature's metal, is that if you
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: look at the totality, like the totality of the page,
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: not not just any image, but you look at the
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: totality of the page, I would argue that far and
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: away it is a celebration of wildlife. It celebrates like tenacity,
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: it celebrates a survival instinct, it celebrates strength, It celebrates
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: diversity right like bio diversity. I think like in its whole,
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: it is a the animal kingdom is amazing. It is
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: mind boggling, It is gorgeous, it is stunning. This is
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: a celebration of the animal kingdom. I don't buy that
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: you would be a real serious like engage and have
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: serious engagement with the page and come out somehow having
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: a diminished I mean, someone could do this, but generally
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: I think not have a diminished view of nature or
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 1: have a thing where you think of animals would be
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: more agreeable to animals going away because they do these
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: bad things to one another. Like, I don't think that
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: that's what that's I don't think that's what that's teaching people.
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: I think it's like it is a in my mind,
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: like a very clear celebration of when what coming from
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: its creator is like a clear celebration of like holy cow, um,
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: we live on a stunning planet with staggeringly beautiful things
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: happening on it. So I don't mean when I bring
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: up that, Yeah, when I bring up that idea about
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: wondering about people, I'm really talking about audience. I'm not
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 1: talking about the page. Yeah. At the end of the day,
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: at its core, that is what nature is Metal is about.
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: The it's the respect for the wild and the animals
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: that survive in it, that they figured out this way
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: of making their way through the world the only way
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: they know how. And we we we have houses and
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 1: air conditioning and all this stuff to protect us from
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 1: the outside when they live in it, and they they
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: have to have kids and protect their kids, and it's
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: just it's insane. It is absolutely insane to me that
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: anybody can look at that and not think that that
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: is the most amazing thing in the world. It's it's
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: mind boggling how they even how we even came out
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: of that, and how how without technology and without our
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: big gass brains we would be screwed, like absolutely screwed
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: if we met the wrong animal. Anyway, you got their
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: bloody Mary Oh no, grape food. JE drink I have.
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: I'm probably the first person to ever drink. I drank
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: it in two in two thousand and four in Portland,
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: I had some kambusa made in the girl's kitchen named Abbey.
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: Second person she'd drank it first. Nobody knew what that
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 1: ship was back there thousand before. Man um Rick from
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 1: Nature's Metal. And how do you find Nature's Metal? You
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: go to Instagram type in Nature's Metal. Easy find it
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: one word. Rick is Metal, Rick Nature's Metal. Thanks a lot, everybody,
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: Lady and gentlemen. Thanks Rick. Everybody. Tune in next week
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: the Meteor podcast. Or you want to see some crazy stuff,
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: go check out my Instagram. Check out sets tell what
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: signs Underscore West. Yeah it's not crazy, but just pretty.
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 1: I have some Nature's Metal stuff on there, at least one. Hey,
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: but you don't have as a farmer defecating off a
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: rolling tractor, which I have. I have a Neil guy
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: hung up in the fence though. Here Ladies and gentleman
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: seth worse follow him on Instagram. All right, thank you, everybuddy.