Latest / The Epstein Chronicles / Mega Edition: MCC Captain's Statement Detailing The Death Of Jeffrey Epstein (Part 4-7) (6/13/26)

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Mega Edition: MCC Captain's Statement Detailing The Death Of Jeffrey Epstein (Part 4-7) (6/13/26) · The Epstein Chronicles

0:00
Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
0:03
Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
0:06
with the unnamed mcc captain and his interview with the
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OIG inspectors investigating the death of Jeffrey Epstein. Question, So
0:16
when the investigation comes down, of course, in made Epstein
0:19
would have been interviewed. In made TARTAGLIONI would have been interviewed,
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at which time you would have took those statements, you
0:25
would have waived, and then he would have took into
0:28
consideration any witness statement or anything that was observed during
0:32
the clinical assessment. So that's why health services helps us out,
0:37
because the inmates don't want to understand that everything they're
0:39
doing or anything they're saying is being entered on the
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clinical assessment investigator. Sure answer by the captain. So that's
0:47
where they were saying that he wasn't his actions may
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not have been what they should have been for the
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person that was quasi supposed to have been assaulted, or
0:57
if he was supposed to have been unconscious, you were
0:59
displaying this type of manipulative behavior. So again, I wasn't there,
1:04
so I don't know what occurred. I'm just going by
1:06
what the information that was relayed back to me. Question
1:12
absolutely so as far as Tartaglioni, what was he in for? Answer?
1:17
I believe that Tartaglioni was responsible for He was a
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former police officer, I believe, and I believe he had
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killed four people and then he buried them, buried the
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victims somewhere up near Otisville Prison. I think that's what
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it was back in the day. Question Okay, answer yeah,
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something like that. Question so he was actually in for
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murder though, answer yeah, it was murder. He was in
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for murder and whatever other stuff he was doing doing
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in his capacity as a police officer. Question and who
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selected him to and why to be Epstein? He gets
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cut off by the captain who selected him? Answer? Who
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selected him to be Epstein's roommate and why? Answer? I
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don't remember who that is Tartaglioni. But what I will
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tell you is that even though Tartaglioni had murder on
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his jacket, Tartaglioni was an inmate that had issues being
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in general population. You understand what I'm saying. Answer or question?
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Uh huh, former police officer. Answer, former police officer. He
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had issues because I've dealt with Tartaglioni at Brooklyn. So
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he was up on one of the units in Brooklyn,
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and he had issues with those inmates in those blocks
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where they're made for people who are sex offenders, for
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inmates that have issues with when they go to population
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general they can't cope former law enforcement. These types of
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guys are in that unit. So you don't really have
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that much issue in those types of units because these
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guys are going to do their time or wait for
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their sentencing and then they move on, so you don't
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really have a lot of violence. But this guy was
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always always in the mix of something. Question uh huh answer,
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But we couldn't put them on general population unit, and
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you can't just throw them in the shoe, you know
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what I'm saying, just because just you can't. So on
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Brooklyn we had the ability to put him I think
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it was K eighty two, I can't remember. But when
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he goes to MCC, you know, they don't have those
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type of units, so he would have to go to
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general population or he would go to the shoe. So
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if the inmate fails the program and said I'm not
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going to population, you can't force me. So when you
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do his assessment, his unit team does the assessment, Psychology
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does their assessment, Health services does their assessment, and say, well, hey,
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this guy is clear to go to GP. There's nothing
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precluding him to go. But the inmate said, well, you know,
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i'm three oh six. Three oh six is refusal of programs.
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I'm not going, so put me in the shoe. So
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that's how he ended up in the shoe. Answer sure,
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so he was in the shoe already. Answer yeah. Question
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and do you believe he was a good placement for Epstein?
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Answer well, at the time. Again, you would have to
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be mindful. How could I put this? Inmates are not
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placed in sales based on race or but however, or
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a gang affiliation, all of these things that you know.
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But however, you vet inmates. So you say, okay, well
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you have guys up there at the MCC that we're
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facing murder charges. There's a lot of them. Hey, I
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mean if they're in the shoe, that means they can't
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cope on the outside, they can't cope in general population unit.
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So we would look at them just like another inmate.
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He never heard another inmate question and that was going
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to be my next question. So he wasn't known to
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assault anyone? Answer, bro, he never assaulted another inmate? Answer okay,
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question yeah, you got a murder beef. Okay, that's fine.
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But guess what he never hurt any other inmates while incarcerated.
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Question sure, so take taking though that he was incarcerated
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due to murder and that Epstein claimed that he tried
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to murder them? Do you think that do you believe
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that there was any credibility to that claim? Answer? Again,
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what I will say is what I will tell you,
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Like you said my statement before that, it was brought
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to my attention that inmate Epstein was doing manipulative behavior,
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kind of testing the water to see what he can
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get away with. Being his initial incarceration, probably not too
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familiar with being in jail, but however, he's a smart guy.
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He kind of figured out what he could do in
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order for him one not to go to GP two,
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try to get in the shoe and try to get
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a cell by himself. That's kind of where he wanted
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it to go. Question So, then he wanted to be
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in the shoe by himself, and that may have been
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why he said that. Okay, So, you believe that he
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made the claim against our taglione because he wanted to
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be in a cell by himself. Question that's my belief.
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After looking at everything and everything that was done, I believe,
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so I think that would be accurate. Question. Okay, it
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says he was placed back on suicide watch for approximately
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one week. So that happened on the twenty third, and
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it brought him up to about July thirtieth. Is that correct? Answer? Correct? Question?
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Of twenty nineteen. Unlike his first in previous placement on
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suicide watch, Epstein now has definitive suicidal tendencies reported in
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his incarceration history. The staff was tasked with determining whether
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Epstein was in fact suicidal or using tactics to avoid
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assignment of a cellmate. After suicide Watch, Epstein was placed
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on psychological observation and eventually returned to the shoe. Now again,
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and just to go back this tense outh thing that
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didn't wear a lieutenant bringing it to you, like, hey,
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should he be on ten South? Answer? No question. You
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don't recall any lieutenant saying that. Answer. That wouldn't be
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a lieutenant's purview. Question. Sure answer, a lieutenant most of
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the people, and then I will tell you I didn't
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understand Sam's placement until I became a deputy captain. Question okay,
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answer all right, and I understood that, you know these guys,
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you just can't put a guy as a Sam's that identifier.
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That's an identifier that has to come from Central office.
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Question Okay, answer bop Central office question. So if a lieutenant,
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So if we're talking lieutenants and they're saying he should
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have been intense South but they don't know what they're
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talking about, basically, answer no, because that identifier, because I
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believe you know, this is an identifier that's put on
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the inmate, just like I'll give you an example sentencing designations. Okay,
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that's their job. They're going to do, say what security
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level inmates, what type of prisons they go to, if
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they're a transgender, you know, all the different things. All
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that stuff is going to come from the Central Office
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to say, Okay, we looked at this particular inmate's history
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or a PSI, and we feel that the identifier needs
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to be placed on this inmate. So is Sam's identification
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or a moniker put on an inmate? Executive staff can't
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put that on there that's going to come from Central Office.
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Question Okay, so although a lieutenant may have thought gets
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cut off by the captain, they may have Yeah, they
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may have thought and said yeah, do too. Yeah, the
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situation of him being a multi billionaire or whatever, or
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due to his issue of his proclivity to sexual deviances
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and all of these things, he wouldn't be a candidate
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to go to GP. But guess what that responsibility, that
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identifi or that moniker should have been put on Epstein
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before he even came to MCC. Question sure, so do
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you know if this is something obviously it sounds like
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it would have been out of your hands. Would that
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be something that the warden would discuss with what the
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regional director? Answer? That's right. The wharton would have had
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that discussion between SIA, the regional staff, and also it
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goes to the region the Central office staff over correctional programming.
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Question okay, and you were never gets cut off involved
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with any designations? Answer? I would never be in any
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of those conversations. Question okay, fair enough, So who would
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be the two? I guess the warden would be the
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right person to go back to and just say, hey,
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did this ever come up? In converse station. Answer right question, Okay.
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It says at the direction of the Wharton, Redacted initiated
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the process of compiling possible cell mates for Epstein, vetting
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them and submitting candidates to the Wharton for his review.
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Redacted and to staff fully screen potential cell mates and
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reported their determinations up to the warden. Frin Reys was
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selected and housed in a cell with Epstein. Answer that's right. Question,
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And it says the assistant Wharton, but I'm assuming they
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mean the associate warden, warden and regional director were notified.
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Answer Okay, this is how that went down. Redacted sat
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with me, not with the AW president, and we wanted
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to We started talking about security protocol moving forward with Epstein.
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That's with me and redacted. We had this discussion. Question Okay,
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answer because, like I said earlier in my statement, even
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though the aw would have been next in succession as
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as far as my supervisor, however, I did have conversations
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directly with the Wharton as far as security situations indiscernible
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in the institution. So we sat there and he wanted
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me to complete names and vet inmates that would be
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possible good candidates. As a cellmate for Epstein moving forward.
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So I brought a compiled I believe I had ten names,
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and he and I went through those names. We brought
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it down to three. Then those three names were adacted
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because I sat there when he called the regional director
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on the phone, and the regional director vetted those three names. Question, sure, answer,
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And then I sat there and I was privy to
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that conversation. I sat there and he gave them and
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he faxed him the whole makeup of all three of them,
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and the regional director said, no, I want this guy. Question.
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So the regional director ultimately made the decision answer yes,
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all right. So we're going to wrap up right here,
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and in the next episode, we're going to pick up
10:58
where we left off. All the information that goes with
11:01
this episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone,
11:06
and welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In
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this episode, we're going to get right back to the
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unnamed captain from the MCC and his interview with the
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OIG inspectors. Question, So, give me a little background on Reyes.
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What was he in for? Answer? I believe Reyes was
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Hispanic older mel I believe that particular inmate was in
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for I think he was in for a child, some
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type of sexual stuff I can't remember. Answer or question
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some kind of charge with charge dealing with sexual he
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gets caught off with. You know those types of charges,
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A similar charge to that, similar to Epstein, I believe,
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or I can't remember. Question Okay, was he when he
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was being vetted? Was he close to like a release
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date or anything like that an anticipated release date? Answer?
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No one knew that. Because this is what you need
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to understand about MCC. MCC and MDC are basically jails.
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They're not prisons. It's a jail. So that means if
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a guy goes to court, you know, you get locked up,
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and then the next day you might go to court,
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the judge might say, no, I'm releasing you. We don't know.
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Question sure. Answer. The only time we'll know is when
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the inmates come back from court. Where is this guy
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at he was released? Okay, Now we got this guy
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still in our account. So if they don't bring a
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transfer order, our account is bad. So they're going to
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bring the transfer order back with them for court line.
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These guys got released, so normally court line is over
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before four, so we try to get these guys up.
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Do some inmates come back after four? Yes, they do,
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But however we don't know if an inmate goes out
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to court if they're coming back. However, there is times
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when they put out the roster and it's given to
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as far as all correctional officers that work the units,
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and it'll say court line. Inmate reyis using him as
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an example, WAB. That means that he has to come
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downstairs with all his belongings. So if they say it,
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that means he's not coming back. That's either he's transferring
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to another BOP facility or he's going to be released
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to the street. But I can guarantee you that that
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transfer of that roster that inmate Reys was on that day,
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it didn't say WAB because it would have said WAB.
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The first thing that the OIC should have said, that's
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my orange tag guy, because I made them do all
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the orange tag guys and I made them put up,
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put them up on the board. Epstein is that orange
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tag guy. He's supposed to have a SELLI wab Oh
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cap shoe lieutenant wasn't there, but he would have called
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me directly, Hey, so and so, don't have a cell question. Yeah,
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so how long did it take to vet? You know,
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I know you said you started it with ten and
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then it brought down to three and then the region
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director ultimately decided the one. But how long does the
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process take? Answer? I believe it took on thinking we
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did it. We did a day. It took a day.
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I mean we actually went and you know, I don't know,
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I know either the warden and I was having a
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lengthy conversation because the warden wanted to ensure redacted philosophy
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when dealing with mister Epstein was this he's another inmate,
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and what he tried to get across to executive staff
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and what he tried to get across to us as
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me as the captain to when I disseminated down to
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the subordinate staff. This is another inmate who cares about
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what his charges are or since he's sensationalized in the media,
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nobody cares. We're going to manage him appropriately because if
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you know anything about jails and the GOP, especially Brooklyn
14:49
and mcc we don't run those jails. The courts run
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those jails. So and that's the truth. The court, the judges,
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whatever the judge says, goes so and that's unfortunate, but
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that's neither here nor there. So Redaktid wanted the staff
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to say, no, this is the inmate. Yeah, he has
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certain charges, but we're going to make sure he gets
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everything that all the inmates get when they come to MCC.
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The inmates are going to get proper care. The inmate
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is going to get showers, the inmate is going to
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be fed, whatever it may be. But however, after those
15:24
situations with Epstein where it showed that his behavior was manipulative,
15:29
when it shows that he was trying to get things
15:31
for unnecessary gain or he would do anything to get
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anything that would benefit him, we had to take some
15:37
different protocols. We had to take a different They had
15:40
to take a different approach, different mindset with this guy,
15:43
or the way we managed them had to change because
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we already had this guy saying that he was going
15:48
to be killed and all this stuff or whatever. So
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we just wanted to make sure a moving forward, we
15:54
put protocols in place that will protect us as an
15:57
agency question, So speaking of protocols, was it discussed then
16:02
when you were vetting these Hey, we have an inmate
16:05
constantly moving out of here, if Ras is moved, one
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of these other two that were down to the three
16:10
would be moved in with them. Was that discussed? Answer? No,
16:15
he would just basically because like I said again at MCC,
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you wouldn't know how long the duration on the inmates
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day question. Sure answer, You wouldn't know questions, so you
16:27
just have to start the vetting process over again. Answer
16:30
all over again. Whoever is available in the unit that
16:33
may be single selled because as you know, our policy
16:37
and protocol in the Bureau of Prisons are dealing with
16:40
restricted inmates and special housing units, they cannot be sold alone.
16:45
They must have a cell mate. Question in the special
16:49
housing unit, everyone must have a cell mate answer Uh
16:52
huh question. Oh I didn't know that. So every single
16:56
one needs to have a cell mate answer except because
16:59
it's one of the areas that we didn't discuss. Outside
17:02
of ten South, there was a range that was meant
17:05
for It was like a step down from ten South
17:08
that only had one man cell occupancy, which was on
17:11
G range. Question Okay, was that part of the special
17:15
housing unit? Answer? Uh huh. Question. So there's a part
17:19
of the special housing unit that is a one man occupancy.
17:22
Another part that has two men occupancy. Answer, that's correct.
17:27
Question okay, And Epstein was housed in the two man
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occupancy answer yep question was it ever discussed to put
17:34
him in one of the one man occupancies? Answer? No question,
17:39
no answer, because all those cells were filled with inmates
17:43
that were vetted that needed that type of supervision. Question okay. Answer.
17:48
You had inmates in there that if they were they
17:51
were put with other inmates inside of special housing, they
17:53
would die, they would be assaulted. So we have to
17:57
make those considerations. So the pro calls of how we
18:00
dealt with inmates according to their situation. I believe it
18:04
was sound. But guess what you can only you're like
18:08
the coach. I can make the game plan, but if
18:11
the players are not executing the game plan, whose fault
18:14
is that? Is it the coach or the player? Question?
18:18
And exactly, And that's what we're doing here. We're Monday
18:21
morning quarterbacking. We're just saying like, all right, this is
18:25
and that's why we're going back through it. So the
18:28
wharden directed or redacted on multiple occasions at Epstein needed
18:32
a cell mate at all times, and redacted informed as
18:36
lieutenants the same redacted repeatedly directed his shoe Lieutenant Redacted,
18:41
that Epstein needed a cell mate at all times. Additionally,
18:45
Redacted visited the shoe on multiple occasions and directed staff
18:49
to be very alert and attentive about Epstein's special accommodations.
18:54
So when you say that about the shoe staff, did
18:56
you also inform the shoe staff that Epstein needed to
18:59
have a cell mate? Answer? Yes, question, Oh so they
19:03
were all aware? Answer yes question. Can you look at
19:08
the shoe staff for both of August ninth and the
19:11
very early morning hours of August tenth? Can you just
19:14
list the people and let me know if you inform
19:17
those people? Answer? So, basically, my hours of work were
19:21
normally let's just say seven thirty to four, so I
19:24
ensured that it wasn't within one week, but it was
19:27
a process of doing rounds. So I try to hit
19:29
every shift. So I hit the day watch because that's
19:33
the one I work. Evening watch, I stay over late,
19:36
I walk up there. Hey guys, this is the situation.
19:39
Let's make sure that you know we're paying attention. And
19:42
then morning watch of course, so beginning at eight am.
19:47
Then on August ninth, can you just look at this
19:49
is a question, now, can you look to who and
19:52
name the people? Can you just name who was in
19:54
the shoe and if you ever had any conversation with them,
19:57
if they were aware? Answer okay, let me see here. Well,
20:01
we had redacted, I talked to redacted and redacted. He
20:05
was in there. Redacted redacted was one of the guys
20:08
that was up there as a wreck officer. Answer soul
20:13
gets cut off him picks back up with the question,
20:17
all of those people were you had conversations specifically with
20:20
them and they know? Answer, I've talked with these guys.
20:26
Question absolutely. Can you just name the other people for
20:29
the shifts after him? I think they just gets cut
20:32
off by the captain you got now, m Thomas, M Thomas,
20:37
what you need to understand is that he would have
20:39
been because you know, like I said, overtime non custody.
20:42
He is non custody staff. I don't have conversations with him.
20:47
Question Okay, So Michael Thomas may not have known. Answer right,
20:52
because realistically, the morning watch an evening watch shift. People
20:56
don't like to come to work. So if you sign
21:00
up for overtime, you say, oh, shoe too is open. Okay,
21:03
I'll take it. But you're non custody, so that means
21:06
anybody can work it. A teacher, a food service foreman. Answer,
21:09
is the shoe easier to work than the other units? Answer?
21:14
I wouldn't say it's easier, but it's less labor intensive. Question? Okay,
21:19
answer because in my opinion from when I work special housing,
21:22
special housing was always hard work. Because I'm going to
21:25
tell you why. You have to be vigilant. And when
21:28
I mean vigilant, you have to understand when you're working
21:31
that unit, anything can happen. It could be quiet, but
21:34
guess what if you're not walking looking in those cells.
21:38
Testing the security protocols, meaning making sure the flaps are closed,
21:42
making sure that the doors are locked. You want to
21:44
know that in shoe sometimes doors was unlocked or flaps
21:49
opened to chase doors those food services the service flap,
21:53
you know, making rounds, making sure that the inmates are
21:56
not have coverings up when you open up. What do
21:59
you call it it? Question? The window? Answer the window
22:03
or putting a towel over the bed and blocking the
22:05
light from you being able to observe them. Question? But
22:09
then how gets cut off? And what I said about
22:12
what I want to get back to because I know
22:14
about the statement about the doors being left open. I'm
22:17
talking about more in general population as far as when
22:20
you're making rounds, those types of things you test, making
22:24
sure the door is secure, making sure the foods lots
22:26
are secure. Question uh huh answer by the captain. As
22:31
an officer coming up, even as a lieutenant, do you
22:34
know that I've actually walked into a unit and pulled
22:37
on the door that's supposed to be secure and the
22:39
inmate is wide open? Question wow Ever at mcc answer no,
22:44
because that wasn't my capacity, that wasn't my job. But
22:48
as a line officer is subordinate. And also when I
22:50
was lieutenant making rounds, that's what I would do when
22:53
I hit a unit. It wasn't just to talk to staff.
22:57
I would walk in and look at the security protocols
22:59
in the union. It is there a fire extinguisher there? Good,
23:02
your phone work, computers work. Hey, let's walk the block,
23:06
pulling on doors, pulling on food slots, showing trying to
23:09
train officers. That's what I used to do. Question lead
23:14
by example, answer and guess what happens. You would find
23:17
stuff because people in a hurry enough to go home
23:20
on that evening, watch the inmates know their doors are locked,
23:23
but they know they're going to come out because if
23:26
they come out, there's a situation. But they'll sit up
23:29
there and leave it open. All right, folks, We're gonna
23:31
wrap up right here, and in the next episode dealing
23:34
with the topic, we're gonna pick up where we left off.
23:37
All the information that goes with this episode can be
23:39
found in the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome
23:43
to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode,
23:47
we're gonna pick up where we left off with the
23:50
interview by the unnamed Captain at MCC with the OIG
23:55
investigators question, so back to this, can you look at
24:01
the other Shoe on you know, the subsequent shifts, if
24:04
you had conversations with them? Answer so Thomas, No, because
24:10
he would have just been on there. Redacted. Yeah, I
24:13
talked to or redacted because redacted would go between evening watch,
24:17
because I would talk with them. Redacted would work evening watch,
24:21
So I have talked with them on evening watch. He
24:24
was working morning watch because these guys it was such
24:26
a short of staff that these Shoe guys was working
24:29
back to back shifts or staff. It didn't matter. People
24:32
who wanted money or wanted to you know, they'd sign
24:35
up for overtime. So redacted was one of the regular
24:38
Shoe staff on the evening watch. Yeah, so I talked
24:42
to him, redacted. I talk with him redacted. Redacted would
24:47
go between the three and also the OIC because he
24:50
had the most knowledge out of those guys. So sometimes
24:53
he even though he was the three, he was the
24:56
one with oice duty, question and o S staff for
25:00
officer in charge, answer, officer in charge. So he was
25:05
doing all the rosters. When it was time to move
25:08
inmates inside the units. You know, he was in charge
25:10
of ensuring that those century rosters were updated to ensure
25:14
that the accountability of the unit was correct, to make
25:18
sure that the inmates were placed in their proper selves.
25:21
Who is this? I'm sorry, hold on question and so
25:25
in the Shoe we want to be focusing on answer
25:28
Noel Toova. Noel was one of the question and that's
25:33
Tova answer Now I know Tova, now Tova. I can't
25:37
remember if I spoke to Tova, but I know that
25:41
I had hit all three shifts, meaning that day watch
25:44
I was always up there on day watch, evening watch,
25:46
I stayed over because that's what the warden wanted. He
25:49
told me, hey, make sure you go and hit all
25:52
the three shifts. The warden told me to do it.
25:55
So if the warden told me to do it, why
25:56
wouldn't I go and do it? Question? Sure? Answer the warden.
26:02
We sat down. He said that these are the things
26:04
that I want to happen. First, I want to make
26:06
sure walk through talk about make sure the staff is
26:09
aware indiscernible are doing this, this and this, and also
26:14
I know that you have that. I put out an email,
26:17
so I just didn't tell them. What do you call that? Question?
26:23
So you sent an email to all the shoe Answer? Yeah,
26:26
I did to all correctional services staff, and I think
26:30
I still got it. Question to all correctional answer, Yeah,
26:34
I still got it. Question did you ever provide that
26:38
to anyone? Answer? Huh? Question did you ever provide that
26:42
to anyone? Answer? No, they never asked for it. Question
26:46
can you absolutely provide that to us? Answer? Yeah, I
26:49
think I have one, and we can go to my
26:51
office so I can show you. I don't want you
26:54
to think I will bring it up for you. Question
26:56
so would have this Michael Thomas and Tovin noel On
27:00
that email. Answer Tova would have been because she's a
27:03
correctional officer, but not Thomas. Answer, okay, question you understand.
27:08
Question Okay, but I thought that everyone was considered a
27:13
correctional officer. That's not the case. Answer. As far as
27:17
when emergencies happen, When emergencies happen, regardless of what your
27:21
discipline is, we all come together. It means you go
27:24
into everyone. When you came in the GOP, everyone was
27:28
given the opportunity that when you went through correctional those
27:32
tactics that you learned in Glencoe, it was about being
27:35
a correctional officer. It wasn't about being a dentist or
27:40
being a chaplain or whatever. It's about correctional principles. Question Okay,
27:46
answer introduction to correctional principles. Question. But as far as
27:50
there was an email that just the people that are
27:52
working in the correctional officer answer yes, and I can
27:59
show that to you. Question perfect answer, I have that question.
28:04
Awesome answer because it wasn't just me just talking to them.
28:08
I put out guidance and I keep putting out guidance.
28:11
It wasn't like it was one time I talked about inmates.
28:14
Being placed on suicide watch. I talked about inmates putting
28:18
on there. What is the difference between close supervision? What
28:21
is it? Suicide watch question? Psychological observation answer and psychological
28:27
There's no such thing as psychological and that you know,
28:29
there's no such thing. It's called close supervision. There's no
28:33
such thing as psychological. That was an mcc thing question. Okay,
28:38
answer that they made up. So it's a close supervision
28:41
and or suicide watch question. So you have at least
28:46
one email though, that you sent to correctional officers saying
28:49
that Epstein needed a cell mat answer. I wasn't saying Epstein.
28:53
But I do have two. I think I gave one
28:55
email and one memorandum that I wrote for the five
28:58
eighty three packet forever. I think you may have that.
29:02
I don't know if you have it. And then I
29:05
have wrote another one about the importance of doing thirty
29:08
minute rounds in the special housing unit. Question. Okay, yeah,
29:12
if you can after we're done, either you can send
29:15
it to me or you can give it to me. Answer.
29:18
I can give it to you. I'm going to give
29:19
you a copy. Question perfect, All right? Then? Just I
29:25
think there's a few more like I don't know how
29:27
to spell his name, pronounce his name. But again, that
29:31
was another non custody guy. So redacted I believe worked.
29:34
He was a material handler. I think redacted was a
29:37
material handler, so he's not correctional services anymore. However, did
29:41
they have a background. No, I'm sorry. Redacted went to
29:44
R and D. So he was receiving and discharge. So
29:49
these staff members worked as correctional officers, came up as
29:52
correctional officers, but their daily assignment, their job descriptions changed.
29:57
They're whatever, they're non custody. Question. So the people that
30:01
worked in the shoe and the correctional officers, they were
30:04
aware of it, but people that had different functions in
30:07
the facility, they may not have been. Answer may not
30:10
have been because I wouldn't talk to them on a
30:12
daily basis. Question And what about do you know if
30:16
there was any kind of like post it notes or
30:18
sticky notes? Answer? Yeah, I had created It was one
30:22
because I said orange card inmates. I said, make sure
30:25
these particular inmates inmates high visibility inmates. And I think
30:29
I talked about that that the other inmate their card
30:32
should be orange and those would be our high visibility
30:36
inmates that you and I think I got an email
30:38
about that too, about the high visibility inmates inside the unit.
30:42
You should take special care to ensure these inmates are
30:45
observed when you're doing your rounds. Question anything though about
30:50
the actual cellmate requirement though? Do you know if there
30:53
was any kind of like sticky note or any kind
30:55
of post it about saying, hey, make sure that Epstein answer?
31:00
I can't remember, But like I said, I was putting
31:03
out a lot of guidance, you know, coming from and
31:06
you know, coming from the wharden and things that I
31:08
would have thought that was beneficial to the correctional officers.
31:12
I was just putting that guidance out. I kept putting
31:15
it out, you know, Like I said, you know, I'm
31:17
going to be talking to them on putting out the guidance.
31:20
But if they don't open their email and don't read it. Question,
31:24
what about some of the people who are acting lieutenants
31:27
somebody like a redacted answer? Redacted? Sorry, so redacted? She
31:35
would work correctional post question, so she would not have
31:39
known that answer. She would have known. Question should she
31:44
have known that Epstein had to have a second cellmate? Answer?
31:48
It's common knowledge that you're supposed to do the thirty
31:50
minute rounds question Uh huh, answer and be vigilant. But however,
31:55
would she know necessarily that those protocols were placed on
31:59
Jeffrey Epstein, that he was supposed to have a SELLI
32:02
I mean you see an orange card if you see
32:04
the guidance. I believe I had put something together that
32:07
was on the OIC's desk. On the desk talked about
32:11
the high visibility inmates, and Jeffrey Epstein was a high
32:14
visibility inmate. Question but is it understood that a high
32:19
visibility inmate like that needs a cell mate? Answer yes,
32:23
question okay, So you're saying make sure you're doing rounds,
32:26
but it's also understood if it's a high visibility cell mate,
32:30
they need a cell mate at all times. Answer yes,
32:33
question okay, And did they all understand that? Answer yes,
32:37
question all right? And to include Thomas, he cuts them off.
32:42
I don't know. How about Noel is the next question? Answer?
32:46
Because they're not custody, and I don't believe I had
32:49
that conversation with them. I'm not going to lie I
32:52
didn't have the conversation with them redacted. What about some
32:56
of these lieutenants like acting lieutenant like redacted? Answer redacted, Oh,
33:02
redacted was in correctional service and she, I believe, during
33:05
the time was working on attorney conference. Question Yes, answer,
33:12
she was in correctional service. She was working an attorney
33:15
conference during that time, so redacted, I actually promoted her
33:19
to acting lieutenant. She was getting paid as a lieutenant,
33:22
so yes, she would have known. Question So she should
33:26
have or would have or should have answer? Yes. Question.
33:31
How about some of the other ones that were on
33:34
you said redacted? Obviously you already said you specifically directed him.
33:39
Answer if he Yeah, I brought him in the office
33:43
and we spoke. Yes. Question do you know how and
33:46
I think you said that you spoke to him on
33:48
multiple occasions. Is that correct? And made sure that he
33:51
knew and made sure that Epstein needed a cellmate answer yes.
33:56
Question Okay, what about redacted? Answer redacted, I had conversations. Well,
34:02
I don't believe I had a conversation with her. Question
34:05
should she have known based upon the orange Cart answer, Yes,
34:09
she should have known because I put the guidance out
34:11
through the email. Question. Now the guidance though set about
34:16
you said it talked about rounds as opposed to actual
34:19
cellmate requirement though correct answer. I can't remember. Question okay, answer,
34:26
you know, I don't know because, like I said, again,
34:28
I put out a lot of guidance. Answer yeah, question,
34:32
but I know the people who I actually spoke to
34:34
as far as like, hey, you the OIC. I mean
34:37
you're the lieutenant a shoe that means you're working day watch.
34:41
That means any movement happens on day watch. It don't
34:44
happen on morning watch in mats are locked in their cells.
34:49
Question right, answer, So anything day watch, evening watch, that shoe,
34:53
lieutenant should be aware. Question Okay, and we'll get into
34:57
gets cut off. So that's why we would have had
35:00
the conversation when he and I had that conversation. Question,
35:04
and do you remember so you recall specifically talking with them,
35:09
do you? And this is I want to know about
35:11
aside from what they should have known, specific conversations with redacted. Answer.
35:17
I can't remember about redacted. I believe it's internal. I
35:21
came into the lieutenant's office and we spoke about it,
35:23
so as a collective, the lieutenants were made aware. I
35:27
can't say I remember that I would come into the
35:29
lieutenants and we would talk about Epstein. So again, between
35:33
the guidance that was put out through the emails and
35:36
the conversations that I would have just had encountering lieutenants. Yes,
35:41
but however I can tell you for sure I had
35:43
a conversation with redacted answer and would have redacted made
35:48
sure that those people working in the shoe and knew
35:50
this information. Answer he would have as a lieutenant in charge, Yes,
35:56
he should have made sure it's somebody like somebody that's
35:59
not in there though Tovin No, Well, I think that
36:02
was her quarterly post or at least she was in
36:04
there a lot of times. Question uh huh answer leading
36:09
up to it. So I should have made sure that
36:12
she knew because she worked evening watch. Question what about
36:16
Michael Thomas? Answer Michael Thomas, probably not, but by him
36:20
working in the unit, he would know. I mean, you
36:23
would say, okay, if he's working on evening watch or
36:25
morning watch. There was no need to move inmates. There
36:28
was no showers that should have been taking place. There
36:31
was no earrings, no medical nothing. We had to open
36:34
up a self for for those inmates. Answer or question
36:39
okay answer, So most of those inmates was done on
36:43
day watch, there was no reason for them to move
36:46
these guys. Question. Okay, all right, folks, we're going to
36:50
wrap up right here, and in the next episode dealing
36:52
with the topic, we're gonna pick up where we left off.
36:55
All the information that goes with this episode can be
36:57
found in the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome
37:01
to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode,
37:06
we're getting right back to the unnamed Captain from MCC
37:10
and his interview with the OIG investigators. Question sure, then
37:17
as far as conversations with redacted answer, redacted was one
37:22
of the lieutenants. As far as again speaking to as
37:26
lieutenants as a forum, you know, hey, got to make
37:29
sure that you guys are doing it, you know, like that.
37:32
But I know for a fact, the only person that
37:34
I spoke to that I pulled in my office was
37:36
the Shoe OIC was the Shoe lieutenant because they're in
37:41
charge of that unit. So I disseminate the information and
37:45
the guidance out to him, and he's supposed to take
37:47
that guidance and push it forward question for the unit.
37:51
So he's in charge of the unit. So you went
37:53
to the guy in charge of the unit, and you said, hey,
37:55
you're in charge of the unit, make sure he's got
37:57
a cellmate at all times. Answer yes, question, and he
38:01
then is supposed to take that and anybody that works
38:04
within the unit should know answer yes. Question Okay. What
38:08
about these lieutenants though, especially the ones that are acting
38:13
as like ops lieutenants and activities lieutenants? Answer okay, yeah,
38:20
people like that. Should they have known during these shifts,
38:23
specifically on the ninth and tenth should they have known
38:26
that Epstein was required Davis celmate? Answer? I believe so.
38:30
Question Okay, answer, but like again, I would have to
38:33
go back through my emails, you know, because a lot
38:36
of the communication that me and the lieutenants had were
38:39
through email, because you can't catch them all on one shift.
38:44
Question sure answer, you know, like catch them passing and coming.
38:47
So I would put out guidance that way. Question. But
38:52
as far as you, you said that everyone knew that
38:54
he had an Orange card and that he was high
38:56
visibility inmate and therefore he was required Davis cell mate.
39:00
So should that have been known through that? Answer? Yeah? Question?
39:07
And is there any excuse for any of them to
39:10
say I didn't know? Answer? I'm not going to put
39:13
that on the lieutenant. You know, I'm not going to
39:16
do that question. Okay, answer, I'm not going to be
39:20
the guide to say whatever whatever, because I'm going to
39:22
tell you what, sir. To be real with you, it
39:25
was so much going on through that timeframe that I
39:28
don't want to put my statement to something like that
39:30
that could detrimentally harm one of these lieutenants. I'm not
39:34
going to say that, Hey I talked to answer right,
39:38
gets cut off on this day. I'm not going to
39:40
do that question. And I'm not saying about speaking. I'm
39:44
just saying the fact that there was And again you're
39:47
saying that you don't recall specific conversations about the cellmate
39:51
requirement aside from redacted. But the fact that if there
39:55
was an Orange card, is that something that just is
39:58
common knowledge? If someone as an Orange card, a lieutenant
40:01
should know he's got an Orange card, he needs a
40:03
cell mate? Answer right? But then again, also it was
40:07
high visibility guys. What do you call that? On g question?
40:14
Okay answer, So with the guidance I put out, I
40:17
got to give you that email. That email was saying that, hey,
40:21
these guys with the Orange cards, you need to ensure
40:24
high visibility, vigilance, ensure that these guys you know, are alive,
40:28
and all of this, you know, report any you know,
40:31
I went into detail with that question. Okay, so maybe
40:35
not if it's an orange card, it doesn't necessarily mean
40:38
then that they require a cell mat. They just require
40:42
gets cut off by the captain hire supervision. Question Okay,
40:47
so you just need to know what they're doing at
40:49
all times and make sure what they're doing. Answer, yeah,
40:53
question all right, So in this instance it wouldn't be
40:56
necessarily cell mate. It would be everybody knows to keep
40:59
it and I on epstein make sure that he's all right.
41:03
So redacted is the only one that you can specifically
41:06
recall and again what you said? Answer, And then again
41:10
when I went on evening watch, Morning watch those shifts
41:14
when I had to talk to the teams together. Yeah,
41:16
I would talk about vigilance after doing thirty minute rounds,
41:20
making sure this is done, making sure that is done?
41:23
Question Okay, answer, making sure this guy you know, That's
41:27
what I did, because that's what redacted wanted. So I
41:31
did that question all right, And then again just to
41:34
make sure that I'm not misunderstanding you. You said you
41:37
talked to redacted specifically about but when you did visit
41:41
the Shoe, not only were you telling them to keep
41:44
hy visibility on epstein, were you also telling them the
41:47
people that you did interact with, that he needed to
41:51
have a cell mate. Answer yes, question okay on Friday
41:56
August ninth or sorry, when is the last time can
41:59
you recall that you had a conversation with shoe staff? Answer?
42:03
I can't remember, sir, question no problem. Answer, I don't remember, because,
42:08
like I said, the guidance came out between the time
42:11
of him being upon his release from Suicide Watch, from
42:14
the last time to the time during the time he
42:17
was doing the vetting for the cellmate. So you know,
42:20
it was a short period of time that this guidance
42:23
and these conversations took place. And then the reinforcement was
42:27
when he would walk through the unit and just do rounds.
42:30
And then I'm like, hey, this is a high visibility guy.
42:34
Why is this guy got trays in the cell, extra
42:36
trades in his cell? Why is this guy got this?
42:39
So then, of course, you know a lot of people
42:41
at MCC that didn't like me because I was trying
42:44
to hold people accountable. But I didn't always write people up.
42:48
That's how I did. I came up like that, I'm
42:51
trying to help you. People thought me trying to just
42:54
talk to them about correctional services or trying giving them
42:57
little you know, helping them out talking to them. You
42:59
know that I was trying to be and no, it
43:03
all be all be that guy. You know you're not sociable,
43:07
but now you're down here telling us what to do.
43:09
You're not one of those. That's the way it felt like.
43:13
So like again, I can give you the playbook to success,
43:16
but if you don't read it, it's just words. It's
43:18
just words. And then I had a lot of issues
43:20
with the lieutenants. You know, lieutenants, you know we're self serving.
43:24
Even though in my previous statement I would never say
43:26
anything statement to hurt them, I'm not doing that. But
43:29
what I'll tell you was that the relationship between me
43:32
and the Lieutenant's Corps was not good. So again, as
43:36
we move forward through today, you know, the statements that
43:38
I make is not to try to put blame or
43:41
try to hurt anybody. The only thing I'm doing is
43:43
telling you that when the warden gave me the directions,
43:47
he said he wanted x Y and Z and x
43:49
y and Z. Not only did I talk to the staff,
43:53
I also reinforced it by putting out emails because I
43:56
know I can't catch everybody, and I know that staff
43:59
is going to blow you off. I mean, like, yeah, whatever,
44:02
I'm glad to be in the unit. Let's go ahead
44:04
and go back to whatever he was doing. It is
44:07
what it is. Question sure, And just so you know,
44:13
just to give you a little bit of peace of mind,
44:15
we're asking you the questions directly. You're not placing blame
44:18
on anybody. So if we ask you like if they
44:22
were responsible or something, that's not on you question. Oh okay,
44:27
Well I just wanted to because I didn't understand that question. Yeah, yeah,
44:32
answer because like I said, I'm not here. I mean,
44:35
he gets cut off question. I mean we might say
44:39
who was responsible or did they drop the ball, But
44:42
that's us asking you a direct question, not you coming
44:45
to us saying it wasn't this guy's fault. Answer right question?
44:50
You know, we're specifically asking you, you know, answer. That's
44:55
why I didn't understand, and that's not why i'm I mean,
45:00
I'm not here for that answer or question. Right answer.
45:05
I'm just here, he gets cut off. Question I mean,
45:09
we do have to figure out who did drop the
45:11
ball here, but that's not you. You're not coming to us,
45:15
We're coming to you. Answer right, I understand. Question. So
45:19
on Friday, August ninth, twenty nineteen, redacted was on leave
45:23
and thus there was no dedicated lieutenant assigned to the
45:25
shoe Answer that's correct. Question. In this event, the operations
45:31
lieutenant had oversight that day and took over the responsibilities
45:35
of the shoe lieutenant. So what time did you you
45:39
can look on August ninth? What time that he worked on? Redacted?
45:44
Answer the periods that this is Friday? Right? Question correct?
45:48
August ninth answer I got. So basically I have redacted
45:52
was not here. He was here on that Saturday, which
45:55
was evening watch on that Saturday. Question did he not
45:58
work four pm to midnight? Answer? He worked four pm
46:02
to midnight on that Saturday. The August tenth question, Okay,
46:05
you can speak, do you know something different? Answer? No, No,
46:09
I was just clarifying question. Oop. Sorry, can I see
46:12
the August ninth question? So who was working August ninth?
46:17
Answer August ninth. It appears I think you got redacted.
46:22
Question all right, So redacted would have been an opst
46:24
lieutenant answer right question, well, redacted and then redacted answer
46:29
yeah question, and then underneath them, the Activities lieutenant would
46:33
have been redacted and redacted answer right question correct? All right?
46:38
All right? So they must have got this wrong somehow,
46:41
So it says, so this is not accurate when it
46:43
says in this report, in this event, the operations Lieutenant
46:46
redacted had oversight that day and took over responsibility for
46:50
the shoe who actually had oversight? Then, since redacted was
46:54
out answer, that would have been the day Watch Operations
46:59
lieutenant question? And who was that answer? The day Watch
47:03
Operations lieutenant for August ninth would have been it appears
47:06
it was redacted question, so redacted would have been responsible
47:10
answer right question? And is it your understanding that redacted
47:14
knew that he needed a cell mate answer? I believe so,
47:18
yes question, okay, all right, So that was incorrect, all
47:23
this stuff about the redacted thing, and then it goes
47:25
on to say redacted informally advised as lieutenants that Epstein
47:30
was not to be housed alone and emphasized that he
47:32
needs to be vigilant about thirty minute checks and unannounced rounds,
47:37
and you said that there were emails about that, and
47:40
well as when you spoke with your lieutenants and when
47:43
you went to the shoe specifically answer uh huh, question correct,
47:49
all right, and that you don't remember the last time
47:52
that you did that, but between August, between July thirtieth
47:55
and August ninth, you at least did it a few times.
47:58
Answer right, question okay, And you think you hit at
48:03
least all three shifts between that time. Answer correct, question okay,
48:10
answer I believe I did. Yeah, all right, folks, we're
48:13
gonna wrap up right here, and in the next episode
48:16
dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where we
48:18
left off. All the information that goes with this episode
48:21
can be found in the description box.