Latest / Pit Talk / Daniel Ricciardo retires from Formula 1

Transcript

Daniel Ricciardo retires from Formula 1 · Pit Talk

0:00
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Pit Talk, a Fox Sports and
0:03
Speaker 1: Speed Cafe Formula one podcast. On today's special episode, Daniel
0:07
Speaker 1: Ricardo retires from Formula One, with Liam Lawson set to
0:11
Speaker 1: replace him from the next race in the United States.
0:14
Speaker 1: Why Dames, Michael Lomonato, motorsport writer for Fox Sports Australia.
0:18
Speaker 1: It's great to have your company and the company of
0:21
Speaker 1: my co host from Speed Cafe. I'd tell you what
0:24
Speaker 1: I really think of him, but you'll have to wait
0:25
Speaker 1: around a week for me to publish it. In a
0:27
Speaker 1: graphic on my social media pages. At one forty five am,
0:30
Speaker 1: it's Matt Cosh.
0:31
Speaker 2: But that equates to four forty five pm in Europe,
0:35
Speaker 2: so it's you know, it's peak time for Formula One
0:38
Speaker 2: on Thursday.
0:39
Speaker 1: It's for four forty five pm in UK on Thursday,
0:41
Speaker 1: after five o'clock in Europe. A lot of people are
0:43
Speaker 1: knocked off by then.
0:46
Speaker 2: What are you trying to suggest here, Michael, that it
0:48
Speaker 2: was trying to bury the story.
0:51
Speaker 1: On the eve of Grand Final Friday in Victoria. You're
0:54
Speaker 1: telling me that wasn't a deliver deliver I.
0:59
Speaker 2: Am. I'm not an AFL follower, so makes no difference
1:03
Speaker 2: to me to tell you what. I'm a massive cycling fan.
1:05
Speaker 2: I'm only up to stage fourteen of the Tour de France.
1:08
Speaker 1: I got to work harder. It got a second mid
1:10
Speaker 1: season break for you.
1:11
Speaker 2: Now for you to do that, I know. I bumped
1:13
Speaker 2: into Mark Cavendish and as Singapore paddock and I congratulated
1:16
Speaker 2: him on his stage. Windn't thinking it only happened a
1:18
Speaker 2: week or so before. It was like three months ago,
1:21
Speaker 2: the greatest cyclist in the Tour de France's history. And
1:24
Speaker 2: I've got well done on your recent win, mate, Yeah
1:25
Speaker 2: it was months ago, dude, Get over.
1:27
Speaker 1: He probably thinks that that to you was just such
1:29
Speaker 1: a meaningful victory that had stuck with you for months,
1:33
Speaker 1: that he was really happy to know that he's left
1:35
Speaker 1: such an impression on you.
1:36
Speaker 2: Tell you what. I've interviewed countless Formula one World champions
1:39
Speaker 2: and greats of mad sport. But I went wobbly need
1:42
Speaker 2: when I got a selfie with Mike Cami's the only
1:44
Speaker 2: selfie I've ever got in the Formula one paddock.
1:46
Speaker 1: Just thinking about your knees if you were going up
1:49
Speaker 1: like a hill climb stage, my niece would be wobbly too.
1:52
Speaker 2: My niece has given out thinking about going up here downhill.
1:55
Speaker 1: I'm great, yes, yes, bike or no bike.
1:58
Speaker 2: I do it better on a bike. I've tried, I
2:01
Speaker 2: have tried in my life without a bike, and it's
2:04
Speaker 2: it's painful riding a bike at the best of times.
2:06
Speaker 2: It's more painful when you're riding a bike without the bike.
2:08
Speaker 1: It's difficult to look. We should probably move on, Matt.
2:12
Speaker 1: This is a good conversation for a mid season break,
2:16
Speaker 1: but not for the week we've just had, because it
2:18
Speaker 1: has been a momentous stay in Australian motorsport. Because a
2:21
Speaker 1: week long rumor has been confirmed. After two hundred and
2:25
Speaker 1: fifty seven race starts, eight Grand Prix wins, thirty two podiums,
2:28
Speaker 1: Daniel Ricardo has retired from FOURMULA one following Red Bulls
2:32
Speaker 1: decision to drop him from the team for the rest
2:35
Speaker 1: of the season in favor of reserve driver Liam Lawson. Matt.
2:38
Speaker 1: The announcement was made remarkably, as I've alluded to by
2:41
Speaker 1: a Red Bulls RB's social media accounts, at one forty
2:44
Speaker 1: five am Eastern time in Australia, that's called at midnight
2:47
Speaker 1: in perse. Liam Lawson was annowned separately in a short
2:50
Speaker 1: press release at two am or four am in New
2:52
Speaker 1: Zealand primetime. We'll talk about Liam a little bit later
2:55
Speaker 1: on Matt because I think he does deserve his own conversation.
2:58
Speaker 1: We should be excited to welcome a kind of new face,
3:01
Speaker 1: I guess to the grid, considering he's already had a
3:03
Speaker 1: little bit of a debut last year. But let's start
3:05
Speaker 1: with Daniel. I've got some opinions about how this is unfolded,
3:10
Speaker 1: but I'm happy for you to start off. It's been
3:12
Speaker 1: a pretty wild week. We've alluded to some of this
3:14
Speaker 1: already in the podcast, which did obviously following Singapore Grand Prix.
3:19
Speaker 1: Just tell me about your thoughts about how this career
3:22
Speaker 1: has ended so suddenly and quite quietly, I think, considering
3:27
Speaker 1: how loudly he lit up fourma one.
3:30
Speaker 2: I think you've been very generous in your introduction to
3:33
Speaker 2: this saying that Daniel Riccardo has retired. Daniel hasn't retired.
3:38
Speaker 2: Daniel was retired. You know. They put him out to
3:42
Speaker 2: pasture with all the great race horses. He didn't have
3:45
Speaker 2: a choice in the matter, really, and that's a little
3:50
Speaker 2: bit sad, but I guess it's also a product of
3:53
Speaker 2: being in the situation. He put himself in here, He
3:56
Speaker 2: willingly walked into this. Midway through last year, he picked
4:00
Speaker 2: up the baton from Nick Deries, who suffered exactly the
4:03
Speaker 2: same fate. Countless other Red Bull drivers have had this
4:08
Speaker 2: happened to them as well, so it's not unprecedented. It's
4:12
Speaker 2: sort of perfectly normal if you're going to lose your
4:14
Speaker 2: drive mid season that this is the way it's handled.
4:17
Speaker 2: So yeah, not a great The difference here being that
4:20
Speaker 2: most drivers who lose their drive midyear haven't got two
4:25
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty seven grand priests starts their name, eight
4:27
Speaker 2: wins and thirty two podiums off the top of my head,
4:31
Speaker 2: so Daniel does deserve a little bit of respect for that.
4:35
Speaker 2: He's also just a likable guy. So there's just that
4:38
Speaker 2: that there's that human element that feels missing. I think
4:42
Speaker 2: that's what it is. We all see the emotion in Singapore.
4:46
Speaker 2: We can all relate to that because okay, none of us,
4:50
Speaker 2: very few of us if you are well done for
4:52
Speaker 2: being a Formula one driver, but none of us are
4:53
Speaker 2: Formula one drivers. So we can't put ourselves and empathize
4:57
Speaker 2: directly with what he's experiencing. We can all relate to
5:02
Speaker 2: something that we've worked hard for or dreamt of being
5:04
Speaker 2: taken away and taken away against our will, war or
5:07
Speaker 2: through circumstances that beyond our control. So there's a very
5:11
Speaker 2: human element to it. And then to not have that
5:15
Speaker 2: human closure to read it on social media or speak
5:19
Speaker 2: fa dot com if you're five minutes earlier.
5:23
Speaker 1: That is prime time.
5:25
Speaker 2: I'll tell you why it was interesting. It was an
5:27
Speaker 2: interesting little twenty five minutes or so with Liam Liam
5:31
Speaker 2: Lawson stuff coming through. But to not have that human closure.
5:35
Speaker 2: Even at McLaren there was that little there's that video
5:38
Speaker 2: of Daniel, that heartreaching video of Daniel there that gave
5:42
Speaker 2: us that closure. In this instance, there's a short statement.
5:46
Speaker 2: We assume it's Daniel that's written it. We don't know.
5:50
Speaker 2: There was a statements from Laura Meckiers. There's been some
5:53
Speaker 2: social media posts from Christian Horner. It's just there's not
5:57
Speaker 2: this human touche. Social media is all arms length, you know,
6:00
Speaker 2: we can hide behind the keyboard there and that sort.
6:02
Speaker 2: I think it's missing. And that's why I think we
6:04
Speaker 2: feel a little bit short changed because what we saw
6:07
Speaker 2: was so human, so laid bare for us. Did I
6:11
Speaker 2: think we all feel a little bit sorry and a
6:13
Speaker 2: little bit hard done by, so we're sort of empathizing
6:15
Speaker 2: and projecting on behalf of Daniel.
6:18
Speaker 1: I'd find this whole thing almost unbelievable. Now we've sort
6:22
Speaker 1: of already talked a little bit about this in the
6:23
Speaker 1: previous podcast. I don't object to him being let go
6:27
Speaker 1: early because there are reasons. We'll get to some of those,
6:29
Speaker 1: expanded some of those a little bit later, but there
6:31
Speaker 1: are reasons to justify that. It's not pure performance, but
6:34
Speaker 1: it's performance against the bar he was said at the
6:36
Speaker 1: start of the year, which was to be so compelling
6:38
Speaker 1: that he was a shoe in to replace Surge of Perez,
6:40
Speaker 1: which he hasn't been. Totally fine. Liam Lawson clearly deserves
6:43
Speaker 1: a seat as well. We know that after last year.
6:46
Speaker 1: Totally fine. It's clear now that red Bull has made
6:49
Speaker 1: this decision before Singapore, even if it hasn't communicated it
6:52
Speaker 1: formerly to Daniel. We know that because by the time
6:55
Speaker 1: he got to Sunday night, he knew that he was
6:57
Speaker 1: not going to be in the car anymore. He knew
6:59
Speaker 1: in a way he didn't before the weekend. We're talking
7:02
Speaker 1: about naytime Grand Prim We've talked about the stats a
7:04
Speaker 1: case when the plenty lots of times seven of those
7:06
Speaker 1: wins came with Red Bull racing during I think. I
7:09
Speaker 1: think what we sometimes forget is a pretty fallow intertitle
7:12
Speaker 1: era for Red Bull, at a time where there was
7:14
Speaker 1: genuine thoughts that okay, maybe not that they would never
7:17
Speaker 1: win a championship again, but that it wasn't as close
7:19
Speaker 1: as it ended up being in twenty twenty one after
7:21
Speaker 1: they tied up with Honda. In that time, he comfortably
7:25
Speaker 1: made himself one of the biggest stars in the sport.
7:27
Speaker 1: As before Drive to Survive, mind you, he was one
7:29
Speaker 1: of the first Formula one drivers to really crack the
7:32
Speaker 1: United States, which is remarkable considering the sports history there
7:34
Speaker 1: before Drive to Survive. That show on Netflix then cemented
7:39
Speaker 1: him as for one of a better phrase and f
7:42
Speaker 1: one main character. He is one of the guys, and
7:45
Speaker 1: that he is separate from his later performances. But that's
7:48
Speaker 1: also fine because that's the way Formula one exists. Now.
7:51
Speaker 1: There is the on track and there is the off track,
7:52
Speaker 1: and they can be separate and they can both be
7:55
Speaker 1: relevant to how Formula one is consumed and White it's
7:58
Speaker 1: popular and White works. I just don't get how a
8:03
Speaker 1: social media post between races while Daniel sitting on his
8:08
Speaker 1: farm in Perth justifies that career. And while Red Bull's
8:12
Speaker 1: given a lot to Daniel, undoubtedly it gave him his
8:14
Speaker 1: Formula One chance. It brought him up through a couple
8:16
Speaker 1: of years of junior racing as well, and gave him
8:18
Speaker 1: his second chance in fact, and I think a lot
8:20
Speaker 1: of people didn't think he'd get one. He also gave
8:22
Speaker 1: a lot back to this brand, including those wins, his
8:25
Speaker 1: dedication to the reserve driver role at the start of
8:28
Speaker 1: last year. Okay, he just do a lot of press
8:30
Speaker 1: conferences and curse sponsor commitments and things like that, but
8:34
Speaker 1: always professional like, committed to it hard and likewise his
8:37
Speaker 1: second stint in the cockpit committed to that immensely. And
8:41
Speaker 1: okay him not personally, but his brand played a massive
8:44
Speaker 1: role in bringing to enormous sponsors to both teams in
8:48
Speaker 1: visa and cash app. I know there's no room for
8:51
Speaker 1: sentiment in Formula One like its performance at the end
8:53
Speaker 1: of the day, as I said already, but this is
8:56
Speaker 1: just such a massive own goal for the Red Bull
8:59
Speaker 1: organation the way this has been handled, And if I
9:02
Speaker 1: were Formula one. I'd be pretty disappointed by this side,
9:05
Speaker 1: because it's not any f one's hands at the end
9:07
Speaker 1: of the day. But you've seen again, and I use
9:08
Speaker 1: the phrase, a main character ushered off stage quietly, and
9:13
Speaker 1: fans are going to tune in in Austin and it's
9:15
Speaker 1: gonna be a different driver there. It's kind of like
9:17
Speaker 1: if you're watching your favorite soap and suddenly favorite characters
9:19
Speaker 1: played by a different actor and it's not acknowledged. I
9:22
Speaker 1: just think the whole thing has come across and I
9:25
Speaker 1: know there will be reasons for it, and there'll be
9:26
Speaker 1: justifications for it, but it's come across as so shambolic.
9:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, I take your point. It is probably not the
9:35
Speaker 2: way that in an ideal world anyone would handle. I
9:38
Speaker 2: don't know how much choice Red Bull really had in
9:41
Speaker 2: the matter. I wonder how many other factors there were
9:43
Speaker 2: just tying them to this course of action. I believe
9:50
Speaker 2: Daniel knew going into Singapore that he was done. There
9:52
Speaker 2: was an opportunity for him maybe to not be done
9:55
Speaker 2: that weekend. But Liam Lawson was on New Zeland Radio
10:01
Speaker 2: and the conversation that he had there heavily suggested that
10:05
Speaker 2: Daniel knew going into the weekend, what the outcome of
10:08
Speaker 2: the weekend was.
10:09
Speaker 1: He wasn't told. This is a difference, I think, because
10:12
Speaker 1: I think there is a difference because I think you're right,
10:13
Speaker 1: Like there's this idea of the writing being on the wall,
10:16
Speaker 1: but that's different to the writing being on the former
10:19
Speaker 1: piece of paper that lets you put into motion essentially
10:21
Speaker 1: what would have been a retirement plan.
10:23
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, not being able to acknowledge it is tough,
10:28
Speaker 2: you know, at least going into abud W twenty two
10:33
Speaker 2: with McLaren, you know, they acknowledged it. They celebrated, They
10:36
Speaker 2: had those the kooky cowboy hats, which is actually sitting
10:40
Speaker 2: up on my bookshelf here. There was just there was
10:44
Speaker 2: this ability for the team to acknowledge and celebrate, even
10:48
Speaker 2: though it wasn't necessarily happy relationship or marriage for those
10:53
Speaker 2: two seasons. Daniel deserved something because of the role he's
10:56
Speaker 2: played in the sport. I accept that. But at the
11:00
Speaker 2: same time, Daniels had that he threw himself into the
11:03
Speaker 2: fire midway through last year. He didn't have to come back.
11:07
Speaker 2: This was always a possibility he was you know, he
11:11
Speaker 2: went into this knowing that he may not go out
11:13
Speaker 2: on his terms and he accepted that risk. So to me,
11:17
Speaker 2: while I see your point and I agree that red
11:21
Speaker 2: Bull probably ideally would have handled this differently, Daniel had
11:26
Speaker 2: a second opportunity that most drivers will never get. He
11:30
Speaker 2: had a first opportunity most rubles, and let's be honest,
11:33
Speaker 2: but to have a second bite at that, you know,
11:36
Speaker 2: he can't be too upset because he experienced something that
11:40
Speaker 2: very few people who make it have, very few people
11:42
Speaker 2: r on full stop. But his one races, he's stood
11:46
Speaker 2: on podiums, he's taken faster laps Singapore, He's done so
11:51
Speaker 2: much more than could realistically ever be hoped for that
11:54
Speaker 2: he didn't get this one thing. Yeah, he can be
11:59
Speaker 2: upset and sad at it, but I don't think can
12:00
Speaker 2: be overwhelmed by it because he's already had it ended
12:05
Speaker 2: at McLaren. So, yeah, I don't like the way it
12:09
Speaker 2: was handled either, but I don't think it bothers me
12:12
Speaker 2: as much as it bothers you.
12:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, Look, it's the broad picture is You're right, you know,
12:16
Speaker 1: will zoom out of this in a year or two
12:18
Speaker 1: and it's fine, Like no one's going to remember the
12:21
Speaker 1: same way that most people won't remember. How Sebastian Vidal
12:23
Speaker 1: was farewelled because you'll remember his sports.
12:25
Speaker 2: Champions Michael Schumacher. Yeah, exactly about Michael Schumer. He was
12:29
Speaker 2: sacked by Ferrari, benched in favor of Kimmy Reichenan. So
12:36
Speaker 2: this isn't There are no sacred cows in Formula one.
12:39
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter who you are.
12:41
Speaker 1: I look and I take that point, and I agree
12:43
Speaker 1: with it, but I just think that it's almost less
12:45
Speaker 1: even about him, and it is about the sport more
12:47
Speaker 1: generally about the fans of the sport the end of
12:49
Speaker 1: the day. That's the reason we're here, that we're able
12:53
Speaker 1: to continue to write about the sport, to do this podcast.
12:55
Speaker 1: The reason that Formula one is such a big deal,
12:57
Speaker 1: the reason we talk about these sponsors and these teams,
13:00
Speaker 1: how they're also valuable, is that because the sport is
13:02
Speaker 1: popular at the moment, it's popular because the drivers are characters.
13:04
Speaker 1: It's sort of It's something I've been sort of thinking
13:07
Speaker 1: about in the last few days, comparing it to Moto GP,
13:09
Speaker 1: and it is not the Moto GP version of Pit Talk,
13:12
Speaker 1: but they are sharing an owner now or they probably
13:14
Speaker 1: will anyway in Liberty Media, and I was sort of
13:17
Speaker 1: thinking about that. I know it's pending European that's a
13:21
Speaker 1: different story, different story, different podcasts, different podcast but they've
13:25
Speaker 1: done two things. Comparing the two sports. Formula one has
13:28
Speaker 1: always been quite good at telling stories, but it's also
13:32
Speaker 1: always been quite bad at giving drivers their individuality, and
13:35
Speaker 1: Moto gp' has always been really opposite. It's really loved
13:38
Speaker 1: having these individual drivers with these really identifiable brands. You know,
13:42
Speaker 1: just as one relatively low level example, Moto GP got
13:45
Speaker 1: onto the rider numbers thing way before Formula One let
13:47
Speaker 1: drivers have their own numbers, and those became the brands
13:50
Speaker 1: or the rights of that kind of thing. Motor GP
13:52
Speaker 1: is the opposite. Like I say, it's not never been
13:53
Speaker 1: that good at telling the story, but it's always really
13:55
Speaker 1: good at the rider thing. And I think this is
13:57
Speaker 1: a really big example of Formula One still having that
14:01
Speaker 1: in its heart, is that it's great at telling the narrative.
14:03
Speaker 1: Like there's this great narrative about this guy from Australia
14:05
Speaker 1: one of those races, really exciting, but then he just
14:09
Speaker 1: becomes part of the machine at the end of the day.
14:11
Speaker 1: And you know, we say it all the time, and
14:12
Speaker 1: we say it for good reason. You know, when we
14:14
Speaker 1: talk about team orders and things that these drivers they're
14:16
Speaker 1: just employees of the teams, And of course that's correct,
14:19
Speaker 1: but that's not the mystique of sport, like forming on
14:22
Speaker 1: is built on your average fan doesn't want to know
14:24
Speaker 1: that old maid is a salary guy who's got a
14:27
Speaker 1: three year contract and maybe it'll be up. Like that's
14:29
Speaker 1: just not that doesn't sell the sport in an exciting way.
14:33
Speaker 1: And so while it's perfect, you know, obviously it was
14:35
Speaker 1: perfectly by the book, Ricardo was dismissed because I'm sure
14:38
Speaker 1: there were contractual implications in light had to unfold this way.
14:41
Speaker 1: They can always be negotiated around if you know you're
14:43
Speaker 1: going to sack your driver, But nonetheless, that's just not
14:48
Speaker 1: what builds the sport. And I'm really surprised with Red
14:50
Speaker 1: Bull in particular because this was the brand to give
14:53
Speaker 1: it its full credit before Liberty Media arrived. Essentially was
14:56
Speaker 1: the F one marketing department, like Red Bull was what
14:59
Speaker 1: made F one grow in let's say, the decade before
15:02
Speaker 1: Liberty Media rocked up, because they were so good at
15:05
Speaker 1: this stuff, like this is what they did, and it's
15:07
Speaker 1: part of the reason why Riccardo was such a big
15:09
Speaker 1: start because he was one of the few stars out
15:11
Speaker 1: of team behind him, backing him, and that was such
15:13
Speaker 1: a big deal. And that's what I find almost most
15:16
Speaker 1: surprising about this, that it's Red Bull that has managed
15:19
Speaker 1: to badly handle this. You know, I'd expect this from
15:22
Speaker 1: half a dozen other teams, but from Red Bull. It's surprising.
15:25
Speaker 1: Like even I was talking to colleague of mine and
15:27
Speaker 1: he raised this, I hadn't really thought about it. Why
15:30
Speaker 1: wouldn't you give him Austin, Like Austin is the Ricardo race,
15:33
Speaker 1: so he's actually got quite a poor record in Austin,
15:35
Speaker 1: But it's you know, you would let him ride in
15:37
Speaker 1: and the horse in the paddock, you'd sell a couple
15:38
Speaker 1: of grand of those cowboy hats. Daniel Ricardo farewell probably finished,
15:43
Speaker 1: maybe finish, who knows, maybe finished into points. Probably wouldn't
15:46
Speaker 1: considering the state of that car. But nonetheless, and then
15:48
Speaker 1: he calls it a day, and then Lawson comes in.
15:51
Speaker 1: You have a great handover. You let him sort of
15:53
Speaker 1: retire again in inverted commas on his own terms, on
15:56
Speaker 1: his own terms, and also in inverted commas, that just
15:59
Speaker 1: seems like another a massive own goal. I think that's
16:01
Speaker 1: maybe what I find most surprising about all of this
16:03
Speaker 1: is that there were opportunities here to make this a
16:06
Speaker 1: kind of like a obviously not a win for everyone,
16:08
Speaker 1: because Daniel doesn't win out of this in any situation,
16:10
Speaker 1: but almost like a win win And this just doesn't
16:15
Speaker 1: cut it on any level.
16:16
Speaker 2: It does if you take the sporting hat off and
16:19
Speaker 2: put the business hat on, because if you keep Daniel on,
16:21
Speaker 2: you keep paying Daniel, and if you accept that you
16:26
Speaker 2: are making the decision, then you just make the bloody decision.
16:30
Speaker 2: You don't prolong it, you don't protract it. I'm surprised
16:34
Speaker 2: he's lasted this long, if I'm perfect. As soon as
16:37
Speaker 2: the decision was made to retain so Joe Perez, Daniel
16:41
Speaker 2: was dead in the water. He didn't have a future
16:44
Speaker 2: with Red Bull Racing. Therefore, what was his purpose at RB. Therefore,
16:49
Speaker 2: you know he's the past. You need to now start
16:51
Speaker 2: looking at the future. And that's ultimately what this is
16:53
Speaker 2: all about. The reason Liam Lawson is coming in is
16:56
Speaker 2: to get that sixth race run towards the back end
16:59
Speaker 2: of the year. I will talk about Liam in a
17:01
Speaker 2: little bit, and I want to draw down on some
17:03
Speaker 2: of the nuance and the language of his announcement but
17:07
Speaker 2: if you make that decision, you just make it. So
17:11
Speaker 2: the Austin thing, I know, there was some suggestion that
17:14
Speaker 2: he might go on there and the assistance in the
17:17
Speaker 2: insistence of visa. There was some desire because Daniel is
17:22
Speaker 2: such a big brand in the United States and he
17:25
Speaker 2: does term the American Girl or the US Groan Prix
17:27
Speaker 2: is second home race, even though he's Australian and Italian.
17:33
Speaker 2: You know, I mean, we're going to start getting into
17:34
Speaker 2: Oscar Piastri home race territory here. But there was some
17:40
Speaker 2: desire to do that and that was a contributing factor
17:42
Speaker 2: in terms of not making the announcement in Singapore or
17:45
Speaker 2: ahead of Singapore and giving Daniel that send off. But
17:49
Speaker 2: I yeah, I guess I'm less a motive when it
17:53
Speaker 2: comes to this the you I'm more pragmatic in that
17:57
Speaker 2: if it doesn't stuck up. From a business perspective, Formula
18:01
Speaker 2: one is a business. It's a sport, yes, but it's
18:03
Speaker 2: a business. We're talking about teams are worth hundreds of
18:05
Speaker 2: million dollars. There's cost caps that need to be managed.
18:10
Speaker 2: You cut your losses. You know, there's an economic theory
18:12
Speaker 2: where your first loss is your least so you cut
18:15
Speaker 2: and run. It doesn't make sense to prolong that. What
18:18
Speaker 2: benefit do you get other than making a bloke feel good.
18:21
Speaker 1: Yes again, I just sort of take that point. But
18:24
Speaker 1: it is a business in a sport. Like sport businesses
18:27
Speaker 1: are unique because they are not run they are run
18:30
Speaker 1: ultimately by the bottom line. We're contributing to the bottom line.
18:33
Speaker 1: There is a vibe, there is an appeal. If people
18:34
Speaker 1: don't like your sport you want to watch, they feel
18:37
Speaker 1: put off by it. That does affect the bottom line
18:39
Speaker 1: in a way that if people don't like your supermarket,
18:42
Speaker 1: they don't know. Certainly in Austraia they don't have much
18:43
Speaker 1: choice but to shop at your supermarket. So there's a
18:47
Speaker 1: bit of it. I think there's still a difference there.
18:49
Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean for red Bull, I'm just surprised
18:51
Speaker 1: of all the brands to do it. In another sense, tho,
18:54
Speaker 1: I'm not surprised. Maybe we should finish with this before
18:55
Speaker 1: we move to Liam that it's Red Bull because clearly
18:59
Speaker 1: influencing this decison. Okay, they're contractualize on all that kind
19:01
Speaker 1: of stuff, but there is also this specter of the
19:04
Speaker 1: team not really knowing it's still trying to handle or
19:07
Speaker 1: trying to work its way through what's been a difficult
19:09
Speaker 1: period for its driver lineups, right, and this has been
19:11
Speaker 1: part of it is that it's almost like they've realized
19:15
Speaker 1: it's been dawning on them over the last year or
19:16
Speaker 1: so as well, that they have this problem with the
19:19
Speaker 1: full driver lineup, the four car driver lineup. Ricardo was
19:22
Speaker 1: hopefully going to be the solution to it. Turned out
19:24
Speaker 1: he wasn't going to be, and that's put them in
19:26
Speaker 1: a little bit of trouble again. The background of that is,
19:28
Speaker 1: of course, this power dynamic, this power struggle between Christian
19:31
Speaker 1: Horner Helmut Marco, each wanting to put their own marks
19:34
Speaker 1: on the team and how it works. And we've talked
19:36
Speaker 1: about it a couple of times this year, Matt, haven't
19:38
Speaker 1: we how ARB was meant to be its own team,
19:39
Speaker 1: but actually Helmet Marker thinks it should go back to
19:41
Speaker 1: being a junior team and that seems to be where
19:43
Speaker 1: it is right now that Daniel Riccardo's been dismissed. That's
19:47
Speaker 1: sort of the context, isn't it, of the difficulty of
19:50
Speaker 1: all these decisions and puts a lot of I mean,
19:54
Speaker 1: it makes this decision in particular, I suppose quite a
19:57
Speaker 1: big one, because this sets the tone for the next
20:00
Speaker 1: a year or so of how this lineup's going to look.
20:03
Speaker 1: Without talking about Lemos and just yet, but I think
20:04
Speaker 1: that there's a lot that's behind the scenes that I
20:07
Speaker 1: guess is not immediately obvious, that's influenced this decision happening
20:10
Speaker 1: in the way it has.
20:11
Speaker 2: This has got a tiny bit and only a tony
20:15
Speaker 2: bit to do with Daniel's performance. If Daniel got out
20:18
Speaker 2: there and blowing the doors off off Yukisnoda, he'd being
20:21
Speaker 2: the Red Bull and we wouldn't be having this conversation.
20:23
Speaker 2: The future will be set for at least a couple
20:25
Speaker 2: of years, or at least through to twenty six, in
20:27
Speaker 2: which case leaves in the RB and he's got experience
20:30
Speaker 2: and all that sort of stuff. But he didn't do that.
20:33
Speaker 2: So there is a portion of performance in there as well.
20:38
Speaker 2: There's politics, and in there you mentioned the power struggle
20:42
Speaker 2: between Marco and Horner, and it's even bigger than that.
20:45
Speaker 2: It goes up to the tie the Austrian side of
20:47
Speaker 2: Red Bull. There's another element here. I was speaking to
20:52
Speaker 2: someone who knows a little bit about this situation and
20:57
Speaker 2: I'm just going to quickly Google a name here to
20:59
Speaker 2: make sure I don't butcher it. But there are three
21:02
Speaker 2: people in the sort of power trumvirent of Red bull
21:07
Speaker 2: Driver decisions, and they're colloquially known as the Austrian Mafia.
21:14
Speaker 2: One of them is Helmet Marco. One of them is
21:19
Speaker 2: Thomas Uberung, who actually used to run Red Bulls motorsport
21:24
Speaker 2: program before Marco got involved in the early two thousands.
21:28
Speaker 2: He was actually responsible for running Christian Klean back in
21:30
Speaker 2: Formula whatever it was back in the late nineties. He
21:34
Speaker 2: was Dietricht Madership's right hand man. He's on the Horner
21:36
Speaker 2: side of the fence. Mark obviously is on the Marco
21:39
Speaker 2: side of these. And then the third player in that
21:43
Speaker 2: little posse is gerhard Berger. Now, without diving into too much,
21:50
Speaker 2: which side of the fence do you think gerhard Berger
21:53
Speaker 2: might fall on?
21:54
Speaker 1: Well, that's interesting because I didn't like to bring personal
21:57
Speaker 1: relationships into this, but certainly I would let me flip
22:00
Speaker 1: it around. Is well, okay, hang on, I was thinking
22:04
Speaker 1: of Daniel Ocado's perspective here. If Daniel's on Christian side,
22:07
Speaker 1: Daniel is on Gearhard side, is Gearheard on Daniels side
22:10
Speaker 1: and therefore on Christian side.
22:11
Speaker 2: That's the implication. Yeah, yeah, So it seems as of
22:15
Speaker 2: those sort of three, you've got two on one. I
22:18
Speaker 2: guess it's invariable that you're gonna end up with two
22:20
Speaker 2: on one side one on the other. But what's curious
22:24
Speaker 2: is that is that Marco and all of this has
22:27
Speaker 2: won out when when you wind the clock back to
22:31
Speaker 2: and I think this will lead us nicely into Liam
22:33
Speaker 2: Lawson when you wind the clock back to post the
22:36
Speaker 2: British Grand Prix last year, when Daniel was dropped into
22:39
Speaker 2: that seat, Daniel usurped Liam into that seat. Liam had
22:43
Speaker 2: the deal and Daniel basically took it off him. Well
22:46
Speaker 2: Daniel didn't take it off him. It was taken off
22:48
Speaker 2: of Liam and given to Daniel, and that was done
22:53
Speaker 2: by Christian Horner.
22:55
Speaker 1: See that's sort of interesting in that context as well.
22:58
Speaker 1: And I guess we're getting into the weeds now something
23:00
Speaker 1: it happened to you ago. But of course Nick Davrees
23:03
Speaker 1: was a Marco pick, famously a Marco. I can probably
23:06
Speaker 1: call it an impulse pick with no disrespect to him,
23:08
Speaker 1: but it was after one race. I think that that
23:10
Speaker 1: classifies as impulsive. And then it was sort of his
23:16
Speaker 1: I guess almost reluctant acknowledgment that it had been wrong.
23:19
Speaker 1: It was the first time I've ever heard him admit
23:21
Speaker 1: to being wrong about a driver decision, or, more to
23:23
Speaker 1: the point, admitting that someone else had been right, that
23:25
Speaker 1: being Christian Horner, who wasn't a fan of Nick Devrees
23:29
Speaker 1: or not a fan of him jumping in at Alpha
23:31
Speaker 1: Tower as it was anyway, and then Horner's pick of
23:35
Speaker 1: Daniel Ricardo got in. We know it was time with
23:37
Speaker 1: that tie test all that kind of stuff. It's almost
23:39
Speaker 1: like they have to take this little wins turn by turn,
23:41
Speaker 1: isn't it. It's sort of a lot of interesting.
23:44
Speaker 2: Was Daniel's return link to that tire test, cause we
23:46
Speaker 2: all hear about it.
23:47
Speaker 1: Certainly the deal was signed, there wasn't it.
23:49
Speaker 2: That's what the deal was signed. But the outcome was
23:51
Speaker 2: a decision was made over a single lap. No, I
23:54
Speaker 2: doubt that, because that's absolutely what it was. Yeah, right,
23:56
Speaker 2: So I think that's a little bit of a red herring.
23:58
Speaker 2: That's the story that's been spun to us. It's a
24:02
Speaker 2: nice little tale and a good example of why, but
24:05
Speaker 2: it's not the full story that It's interesting. That's a
24:09
Speaker 2: theme that runs all the way through this tale of
24:13
Speaker 2: ups and down. So Red Bull and Daniel Ricardo and
24:15
Speaker 2: Liam Lawson and everything else, we're getting little snippets. There's
24:19
Speaker 2: a whole lot more that we're not getting to sort
24:22
Speaker 2: of paint that full picture.
24:24
Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about Liam Lawson now. There will be
24:27
Speaker 1: plenty of time to unpack more Daniel Ricardo as we go.
24:29
Speaker 1: I'm sure we can talk about him plenty lots of times.
24:33
Speaker 1: Had a long career, very successful career. But Liam Lawson
24:36
Speaker 1: is the coming man, isn't he. We should give him
24:37
Speaker 1: his due, and I want to start here. Actually the
24:39
Speaker 1: nip this in the bar, and we did talk about
24:41
Speaker 1: a little bit last week. But Matt, I've been a
24:42
Speaker 1: little bit disappointed to see online some people come out
24:45
Speaker 1: against Liam because of the way he's ended up replacing Ricardo.
24:48
Speaker 1: I think you said it pretty well last week actually,
24:50
Speaker 1: that he is totally removed from the decision making and
24:53
Speaker 1: the handling of this situation, just a driver who wants
24:56
Speaker 1: his chance. We shouldn't begrudge him that, and we should
24:58
Speaker 1: be able to celebrate his arrival quite separate from his
25:04
Speaker 1: from Ricardo's retirement. Rather, I guess the other half of
25:07
Speaker 1: that is that, and this surprised me a little bit
25:09
Speaker 1: as well, Matt. I know I keep talking about the
25:11
Speaker 1: human element of the sport, but you have to forgive
25:13
Speaker 1: me for that. I think it is important is that
25:15
Speaker 1: the side effect of this sort of funny way Red
25:18
Speaker 1: Bull's gone about this whole situation is that I was
25:20
Speaker 1: surprised that it didn't celebrate him more in its announcement.
25:24
Speaker 1: It was a pretty brief press release, contained only quotes
25:27
Speaker 1: from team rerins Laura Mecke's. In fact, Lauren's quotes were
25:30
Speaker 1: about Liam were shorter than it was about Daniel, and
25:32
Speaker 1: they weren't even that long to begin with. It's almost
25:35
Speaker 1: like the whole situations made the team a little bit
25:37
Speaker 1: too afraid to go too big on what should be
25:40
Speaker 1: quite an exciting announcement about a driver who could be
25:43
Speaker 1: its long term future.
25:44
Speaker 2: It's just a very good point, and Liam is going
25:48
Speaker 2: to be painted as a pantomine villain by a lot
25:50
Speaker 2: of people here. That's massively unfair. To reiterate what I've
25:54
Speaker 2: said on the regular Pot earlier in the week. Liam
25:57
Speaker 2: is not to blame here. Daniel had his career in
26:00
Speaker 2: his own hands, and the reasons we've just discussed it
26:04
Speaker 2: didn't work. Part of those performance, part of that is politics,
26:07
Speaker 2: but none of that is Lim's doing. Liam is just
26:11
Speaker 2: you know, it could be Liam. It could be I mean, hell,
26:13
Speaker 2: it could be Franco colo Pinto in that position. It
26:16
Speaker 2: could be any one of those young guys desperate for
26:19
Speaker 2: a chance, just as Daniel once was. Let's not forget
26:22
Speaker 2: Daniel came in midway through the twenty eleven season at HRT.
26:25
Speaker 2: He replaced was Cartin or wasn't carth Kaine that he replaced.
26:29
Speaker 1: Was because then didn't cart Kin come back for the
26:31
Speaker 1: Indian Grand Prix, but he then replaced Was it Lutsi
26:34
Speaker 1: in the other car at the time?
26:36
Speaker 2: Quite possibly? I think you're right.
26:37
Speaker 1: I think there are quite a few.
26:39
Speaker 2: Anyway, they were squeezing every penny because they didn't have
26:45
Speaker 2: too many of them. But that's my point. In that instance,
26:49
Speaker 2: Daniel is blameless for whatever driver it was losing their drive,
26:53
Speaker 2: just as in this case, Lim is is blameless for
26:56
Speaker 2: Daniel losing his drive. And to Lim's credit, he's come
26:58
Speaker 2: out and addressed that elephant again on the in the
27:02
Speaker 2: interview in New Zealand's Radio, he said, you know, he's
27:05
Speaker 2: got a huge amount of respect for how he being
27:08
Speaker 2: Daniel Ricardo dealt with everything, because I really can't imagine
27:11
Speaker 2: what that was like. You know, he's a lot more public,
27:14
Speaker 2: a lot more famous than what Liam is, even though
27:16
Speaker 2: Liam had a little taste of that last year with
27:20
Speaker 2: you know, with the cameo. Daniel's just he's got so
27:23
Speaker 2: much respect for Daniel, and that's what I liked to hear. Conversely,
27:27
Speaker 2: Daniel's got a lot of respect for Lim. Daniel's been
27:30
Speaker 2: hiding nothing, He's been helping Liam all the way through.
27:33
Speaker 2: Daniel has said, there's always been in his hands and
27:35
Speaker 2: he holds no ill feeling or grudges or whatever against Lim.
27:40
Speaker 2: So let's give me Liam is fair Jew's he's a
27:44
Speaker 2: young kid who's worked bloody hard to get there. Yes,
27:47
Speaker 2: he's had some lucky breaks along the way. He's had
27:49
Speaker 2: some fortune courtesy of misfortune for others, but that's life.
27:55
Speaker 2: I'm sure there are people, you know, if not yourself,
27:57
Speaker 2: who have benefited from the misfortune of others. So let's
28:02
Speaker 2: not dress it up as anything other than that. Really.
28:05
Speaker 2: But also, Lim's unlucky to be where he is because,
28:10
Speaker 2: as I said just before, he had a deal to
28:12
Speaker 2: be in that car a year ago and he had
28:14
Speaker 2: that deal pulled out from under him by Christian Horne
28:16
Speaker 2: giving it to Daniels. So he sat quietly on the sidelines,
28:19
Speaker 2: doing the right thing by the team, doing all the
28:21
Speaker 2: things that we've praised Daniel for doing, you know, saying
28:23
Speaker 2: the right things, doing the right things. Lim's done all
28:26
Speaker 2: of that, having basically had the contract pulled from him,
28:29
Speaker 2: and the same I understand happened again this year. So
28:32
Speaker 2: for Liam to agree to join I again not that
28:36
Speaker 2: he really had a choice but to agree to join
28:39
Speaker 2: RB because there was an option that Red Bull did
28:42
Speaker 2: exercise on the Sunday of the Azerbaijaga on Preyer, and
28:45
Speaker 2: by exercise, they basically needed to not do anything. The
28:49
Speaker 2: only way out of the contract for Red Bull at
28:51
Speaker 2: that point was to notify that they didn't intend to continue.
28:53
Speaker 2: They didn't do that. So the implication was Liam had
28:56
Speaker 2: a guaranteed race seat and it's a guaranteed race seat
29:00
Speaker 2: for twenty twenty four at RB if you read the
29:03
Speaker 2: press release.
29:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, the twenty twenty four part is not I think
29:07
Speaker 1: the most interesting part to pick up on here because
29:09
Speaker 1: we can talk a little bit now about our expectations,
29:12
Speaker 1: not just of Liam's performance because I think we don't
29:14
Speaker 1: really even talk about that because we've seen what he's
29:16
Speaker 1: capable of already. That five race run okay, it was
29:19
Speaker 1: relatively short, but was a decent window into what we
29:21
Speaker 1: can expect from him, and he really hit the ground
29:24
Speaker 1: running last time, and this year he's got I guess,
29:27
Speaker 1: a little bit of a bigger run up because the
29:29
Speaker 1: expectation was building. He's been very much the dedicated reserve.
29:32
Speaker 1: He hasn't had a parallel racing series to compete in
29:36
Speaker 1: as well, so he's had well I don't know if
29:38
Speaker 1: we should continue to refer to it, but it's almost
29:39
Speaker 1: like the Oscar piastre build up of just focusing on
29:42
Speaker 1: being the reserve drive and then you get your shot
29:44
Speaker 1: sort of thing. So there's that element of it.
29:46
Speaker 2: Maybe we should let's update that to the jack doing.
29:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yes, Well he's taken the reins. Now, maybe
29:51
Speaker 1: we can refer it from now on as the Leam
29:52
Speaker 1: Lawson method, because at least coming in the mid season
29:55
Speaker 1: it's a little bit more applicable than just coming in
29:57
Speaker 1: the following year. But it's pecifically according to the press release,
30:01
Speaker 1: the short press release twenty twenty four, which is the
30:03
Speaker 1: last six races of this year. Help Mark has already
30:06
Speaker 1: said expect an engine penalty for the first race in
30:08
Speaker 1: the United States, So good luck to you, Leam. But
30:11
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five is the big game here, isn't it.
30:14
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously he's not here to just race of
30:16
Speaker 1: six races. He doesn't want that. He wants to continue racing,
30:18
Speaker 1: and Andy Climactic wouldn't and certainly no one expects him
30:21
Speaker 1: to do such a bad job. He's not going to
30:24
Speaker 1: be around next year. I think that's just inconceivable. And
30:26
Speaker 1: Red Bull also really doesn't need another driver conundrum at
30:30
Speaker 1: the end of the year if it were to drop
30:32
Speaker 1: him suddenly. So I think that we can take it
30:34
Speaker 1: as read he's going to be around next year. But
30:37
Speaker 1: it certainly seems to me that this leaves doors open
30:41
Speaker 1: for him to, if he does a good enough job,
30:43
Speaker 1: be the guy who replaces Sergio Peritz. Because we've talked
30:46
Speaker 1: about this all year man or certainly for the last
30:48
Speaker 1: few months. He is losing the team to construct this championship.
30:51
Speaker 1: In fact, as of Azerbaijan, he has lost the team
30:54
Speaker 1: the lead in the Constructor's Championship. It seems pretty difficult
30:56
Speaker 1: from the winner back unless he has a really remarkable
30:58
Speaker 1: turn around the second half or last six races rather,
31:02
Speaker 1: and if it's only more competitive next year and he
31:04
Speaker 1: hasn't shown that he can turn that form sump around,
31:07
Speaker 1: what would be the point of keeping him, To go
31:09
Speaker 1: back to the whole reason we've dropped that the team's
31:11
Speaker 1: dropped Daniel. If you know he's not going to be
31:13
Speaker 1: the long term, what's the point in keeping him. There's
31:16
Speaker 1: a lot on the line. I get the sentence for
31:19
Speaker 1: Liam in this last six races, beyond just the prospect
31:21
Speaker 1: of maybe sticking at RB next year.
31:24
Speaker 2: Liam's got a contract for twenty twenty five. I'll tell
31:26
Speaker 2: you that right now. I'm not speculating. I'm not hypothesizing.
31:31
Speaker 2: Liam has a contract for twenty twenty five. The announcement
31:35
Speaker 2: only mentioned twenty twenty four because that way the opportunity
31:38
Speaker 2: is there to place him either at RB for next
31:41
Speaker 2: year or Red Bull. You're not constrained either way. But
31:44
Speaker 2: there is a contract in place that Liam will be
31:47
Speaker 2: in a race seat for twenty twenty five. Otherwise, why
31:49
Speaker 2: would you agree he knocked back another contract to take
31:53
Speaker 2: this one. I mean not that again, not that he
31:55
Speaker 2: had a choice because Red Bull exercised that option. As
31:57
Speaker 2: soon as they did. That option was a guarantee strive
32:00
Speaker 2: for twenty twenty five. So Lim's on the grid next year.
32:02
Speaker 2: It's just a question of easy wearing blue or white overalls.
32:06
Speaker 2: That's the bigger question here. If Liam does well, the
32:10
Speaker 2: understanding is that Sergo Perris is already in breach of
32:12
Speaker 2: contract for next year. He hadn't scored enough points by
32:15
Speaker 2: the summer break. Red Bull, if they so chose, could
32:18
Speaker 2: part ways with him at the end of the season,
32:20
Speaker 2: and that's all within their rights to do that. Obviously,
32:25
Speaker 2: Lim's going to show something something, certainly something more than
32:28
Speaker 2: what Daniel did, clearly and more than what Yuki has done.
32:32
Speaker 2: But if he does that, we then start to see
32:34
Speaker 2: this grand plan taking shape, because getting rid of Daniel
32:39
Speaker 2: now a forged Red Bull an opportunity in two years
32:43
Speaker 2: time that it wouldn't have if it waits to the
32:45
Speaker 2: end of the year. If it waits at the end
32:47
Speaker 2: of the year, it has to put Limb at ourb
32:50
Speaker 2: next year. It can't put him at Red Bull. That's
32:53
Speaker 2: too great a risk, and we've seen that they're comparatively
32:56
Speaker 2: risk averse strangely by not putting Daniel there, so by
32:59
Speaker 2: having Leam in for the last six races. And this
33:02
Speaker 2: goes back to the point you know, why not give
33:04
Speaker 2: Daniel last, and well, you want to maximize your chance
33:07
Speaker 2: of assessing Liam. Give him the six races, see how
33:10
Speaker 2: he stacks up. You then have a really good opportunity
33:13
Speaker 2: to make an informed decision either of RB or Red Bull.
33:17
Speaker 2: If he goes to Red Bull, you've then got Isaac Hadja,
33:19
Speaker 2: who can goes straight into that. A partner Yuki Sonoda
33:22
Speaker 2: for a year. Yuki then goes off to probably Aston
33:24
Speaker 2: Martin with Honda. I mean, Yuki's only there because of Honda.
33:28
Speaker 2: Yuki is not there because of Yuki. Yuki's there because
33:31
Speaker 2: Red Bull need him there for Honda. And then in
33:36
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six you have an opportunity to promote probably
33:39
Speaker 2: are with Limbland the way things are going, but who knows.
33:41
Speaker 2: There's a couple of other drivers in the mix there
33:44
Speaker 2: and he seems to be the most likely winner. He
33:46
Speaker 2: go He's off a bar DC Driver of the Year
33:48
Speaker 2: and all sort of young Driver of the Year, all
33:49
Speaker 2: sorts of stuff. But again, if you wait until next year,
33:53
Speaker 2: you then go to twenty six and you're having Haja
33:56
Speaker 2: or limb Bland Limb Blab, both being rookies in that car. Conversely,
34:01
Speaker 2: had Jo is an insurance policy for Liam Lawson because
34:05
Speaker 2: let's say Liam goes up to Red Bull next year,
34:07
Speaker 2: Hadja comes into the RB, Hadya shines and Liam doesn't. Well,
34:12
Speaker 2: you pull the old Alex Albn Daniel Kveat trick and
34:14
Speaker 2: slop him around. That's what happened.
34:17
Speaker 1: Was it was, But I just read more just the
34:21
Speaker 1: way Daniel Caveat was dell with is just you never want,
34:23
Speaker 1: you never want to be in the same sentence, I
34:25
Speaker 1: think with his handling at Red Bull, I just feel
34:27
Speaker 1: like that's cruel. It's yeah, you're you're absolutely right. I
34:30
Speaker 1: think that there. I mean, I'm not even convinced that
34:33
Speaker 1: Liam Lawson needs to have an absolutely outstanding last six
34:38
Speaker 1: races to get that trigger pulled, because he's dealing with
34:41
Speaker 1: the handicap of having only just started this season. Plus
34:45
Speaker 1: he'll be in his handicap of having an indie penalty
34:48
Speaker 1: first race of that kind of thing. Plus there are
34:49
Speaker 1: three sprints in the second half in his six races,
34:52
Speaker 1: which means there's way less practice time than usual, I
34:54
Speaker 1: think he only has to show decently to be convincing
34:58
Speaker 1: that he's capable of taking that stef But and that
35:01
Speaker 1: means probably even though you'd ideally like to see him
35:04
Speaker 1: beating UQ, but even if he just matches with him,
35:06
Speaker 1: I think that's still fairly impressive, considering the way he'll
35:08
Speaker 1: have come into the sport and the relatively little non
35:12
Speaker 1: competitive seat time he'll have available to him in these
35:15
Speaker 1: last six rounds, I think that would be compelling. Combined,
35:18
Speaker 1: of course, with all the other simulated stuff. They know,
35:19
Speaker 1: all the other elements are going to these decisions. It's
35:21
Speaker 1: never just the on track time. So you know, we
35:24
Speaker 1: already know that red Bull is fairly impressed with that
35:26
Speaker 1: sort of steeriness that he has when he's in the car,
35:28
Speaker 1: so I wouldn't be that surprised if his results look
35:31
Speaker 1: good and that's enough, particularly if Sergio Peis can't turn
35:35
Speaker 1: it around. If Paris suddenly pulls out six great last races,
35:37
Speaker 1: that might change things somewhat. But that's sort of interesting.
35:40
Speaker 1: But then it does, and maybe there's a question for
35:42
Speaker 1: later in the year, because we've already talked a little
35:44
Speaker 1: bit about all this driving sort of stuff. But it does.
35:46
Speaker 1: I think you sort of raised it there in one
35:49
Speaker 1: in one sense brings Red Bull back to the way
35:51
Speaker 1: it used to run these two teams, which I think
35:53
Speaker 1: is better than the conservative way it's been running it recently,
35:57
Speaker 1: which is you bring these young guys in, you give
35:58
Speaker 1: them a chance. You never know, you know. The strategy
36:01
Speaker 1: for them has always been like you just throw as
36:02
Speaker 1: many drivers at the wall, whichever one stick you put
36:05
Speaker 1: them in, and suddenly you might find your next great driver.
36:07
Speaker 1: Like that's the way they've done it, as opposed to
36:09
Speaker 1: the I guess more modern way that likes of Mercedes
36:12
Speaker 1: and Ferrari. They pick a couple of drivers, they groomed
36:14
Speaker 1: them to the top. They end up with one that's
36:17
Speaker 1: your George Russell or your Antonelli or whatever, and they
36:19
Speaker 1: get their debut like that.
36:20
Speaker 2: That's been a lot of grooming done with Antonelli. Though
36:22
Speaker 2: in fairness, it's just.
36:22
Speaker 1: Like no.
36:25
Speaker 2: Swim.
36:26
Speaker 1: Yes, his hair was already perfect when they arrived him.
36:28
Speaker 1: No groomy with five but you know, you raise Albonn,
36:32
Speaker 1: you raise Ghastly, even Kiviat to some extent, A though
36:35
Speaker 1: that was a bit of a weird situation. It was
36:36
Speaker 1: like almost the opposite. These are drivers that were badly burnt,
36:40
Speaker 1: quality drivers that were badly burnt by being rushed into
36:43
Speaker 1: Red Bull Racing, specifically alongside Max with Stafford, Liam Lawson
36:49
Speaker 1: will have had only by the end of the year
36:51
Speaker 1: eleven Grand Prix for av over two seasons in two separate,
36:57
Speaker 1: significantly separate stints, you know. And I say this specifically,
37:01
Speaker 1: and I've mentioned Gasling now one specifically because it should
37:04
Speaker 1: take nothing away from I think Lawson's potential and ability
37:08
Speaker 1: to say that that's a risk, because not only up
37:10
Speaker 1: agains Max with staff and he also, as has been
37:12
Speaker 1: made really clear this year, in a car that's can
37:15
Speaker 1: be a bit dodgy, sometimes can be a bit tough,
37:18
Speaker 1: even on Max, You've got to be confident. And I'm
37:23
Speaker 1: I'm just really interested to see how this plays out.
37:26
Speaker 1: I mean, I'd love to see laws and get his
37:27
Speaker 1: chance fired at the front. I'd love to see him
37:29
Speaker 1: succeed because it would be such a tremendous story. But
37:32
Speaker 1: that does raise the questions that were never really answered, ironically,
37:36
Speaker 1: questions that began being posed after Riccardo ever since Ricardo
37:39
Speaker 1: left Red Bull Racing about how they deal with that
37:41
Speaker 1: second seat it's great to give more drivers a chance.
37:45
Speaker 1: Have they fixed the problems that prevent them from shining?
37:48
Speaker 2: But that's exactly the point of this, you know, it's
37:51
Speaker 2: it's clearing the log jam right now. You've got to
37:54
Speaker 2: get lim in there so you can get Eyazac in
37:56
Speaker 2: there so you can get the next lot in below
37:59
Speaker 2: them or behind them. You know, we don't know at
38:02
Speaker 2: this point is Liam the next Max? Is Liam a
38:05
Speaker 2: suitable replacement? I don't know, but unless you try, you're
38:08
Speaker 2: never going to find out. Similarly, if you don't give
38:10
Speaker 2: Isaac a chance Isaac Hadja, you're never going to know
38:14
Speaker 2: similarly with the guy behind him. So you have to
38:16
Speaker 2: get this ball rolling. You know, yes, Red Bull has
38:19
Speaker 2: burnt all those drivers, and you go back, you know,
38:22
Speaker 2: down the line and from Christian Clean onwards. There is
38:26
Speaker 2: there is a long, long list of drivers who've raced
38:29
Speaker 2: the Red Bull and for whatever reason haven't made it
38:31
Speaker 2: where perhaps the circumstances were different. Would even drivers that
38:36
Speaker 2: didn't get to Formula one that perhaps might have been
38:41
Speaker 2: a different environment or a different program or at a
38:43
Speaker 2: different time. So I totally get why they're doing it.
38:47
Speaker 2: They have to take this risk. It's calculated, but the
38:49
Speaker 2: odds are in their favor that if they keep churning
38:52
Speaker 2: through drivers, you know they've they found a Sebastian Vettel,
38:58
Speaker 2: they found Daniel Ricardo, they found makes us. They found
39:02
Speaker 2: two generational, arguably talents, a one guy who in different
39:06
Speaker 2: scenario probably could have been a world champion himself. I
39:10
Speaker 2: think the great travesty of Daniel Riccardo is that his
39:14
Speaker 2: best years were in an era that was dominated by
39:17
Speaker 2: Mercedes and then happened to overlap with the rise of
39:21
Speaker 2: a generational talent, a guy that will go down as
39:23
Speaker 2: one of the greats and Formula one. Change one, if
39:26
Speaker 2: not two of those variables and you have a very
39:29
Speaker 2: very different career. But it goes to show that red Bull,
39:32
Speaker 2: for all its speculation, it does get it right. So
39:36
Speaker 2: let's hope that Liam is one of those that it
39:38
Speaker 2: gets right more than it gets wrong, because it is
39:42
Speaker 2: a hell of a story. He doesn't have family money,
39:45
Speaker 2: He's had support from Red Bull since comparatively early on.
39:49
Speaker 2: He took a massive gamble to go over to Europe
39:51
Speaker 2: and race German Formula four. He had backing from New
39:55
Speaker 2: Zealand to get him there. You know, this is a
39:57
Speaker 2: kid who's put in a hell of a lot to
40:00
Speaker 2: get where he is, sacrificed a hell of a lot,
40:03
Speaker 2: has had to play an impatient waiting game. He deserves
40:07
Speaker 2: to be there again, forget the scenario. You know it
40:11
Speaker 2: took Daniel being sacked for him to get there. That's
40:13
Speaker 2: not Liams's fault or problem. This kid's done it hard
40:17
Speaker 2: to get there. He's not bought his way in like
40:19
Speaker 2: others have, because there are still plenty of pay drivers
40:23
Speaker 2: in Formula one, even very very talented ones. But you know,
40:28
Speaker 2: Lim's done it on pure grit, determination, bloody mindedness and talent.
40:33
Speaker 2: And let's hope for all of those reasons that he
40:35
Speaker 2: succeeds and then we'll adopt him as Australian.
40:39
Speaker 1: Absolutely right, hopefully sooner rather than later. That's all the
40:42
Speaker 1: time we have for pit Talk today. On this momentus
40:45
Speaker 1: somewhat sad, but look, let's celebrate the career of Daniel
40:48
Speaker 1: Ricardo a day for Australian motorsport. You can subscribe to
40:51
Speaker 1: pit Talk wherever you get your favorite podcast, and you
40:53
Speaker 1: can leave us a rating and review as well, and
40:55
Speaker 1: you can keep up to date with all the later
40:57
Speaker 1: steff on News throughout the next couple of weeks, in fact,
41:00
Speaker 1: at foxsports dot com dot Au and Speedcafe dot Com
41:03
Speaker 1: from Matt Cosh and me Michael Lomonado, thanks very much
41:05
Speaker 1: for your company and we'll catch you in a couple
41:07
Speaker 1: of weeks ahead of the next race in the United States.