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5 Starting Pitching Targets · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

0:03
Speaker 1: Hey everybody, welcome into Tiger Territory. Wear like a white
0:12
Speaker 1: t-shirt and blue jeans. We never go out of style.
0:15
Speaker 1: I'm Cody Stavenhagen. Here is Rogelio Castillo. Raj, we kind
0:20
Speaker 1: of got a lot going on. It's November 2nd and
0:22
Speaker 1: yet we have about a million things to talk about.
0:26
Speaker 1: The Tigers just announced their option decisions, a few roster moves.
0:30
Speaker 1: It's November 2nd. the entire baseball industry is expecting a
0:34
Speaker 1: lockout at the end of the month. We have about
0:36
Speaker 1: 28 days for a lot of things to happen. Uh, we,
0:40
Speaker 1: we can dive in some news and notes, but, but anything,
0:42
Speaker 1: you know, off the jump, stand out to you, Raj.
0:46
Speaker 2: Uh, really this, uh, the amount of, uh, the amount of, uh,
0:49
Speaker 2: Christian Hurst, the, some of the free agents that went
0:52
Speaker 2: up the Baltimore's, uh, implosion.
0:55
Speaker 1: We'll talk about Baltimore. Yeah.
0:56
Speaker 2: Yeah. He's, he got released, but, uh, Yeah, so everybody
0:59
Speaker 2: talks about how well Baltimore has done with these great
1:02
Speaker 2: draft classes, and then they're just dropping outfielders left and
1:05
Speaker 2: right from this. So that 2020 draft class, by the way,
1:09
Speaker 2: is looking really ish right now.
1:11
Speaker 1: Terrible draft class. Colt Keith ends up being one of
1:13
Speaker 1: the better picks from that draft class.
1:16
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:17
Speaker 1: Well, let's start with some news from the Tigers Monday night.
1:21
Speaker 1: I think the headline, Drew Anderson coming back as expected.
1:25
Speaker 1: The Tigers picked up his $ 10 million club option. Kenley Jansen,
1:29
Speaker 1: as expected, he gone, and the Tigers declined what was
1:33
Speaker 1: a $ 12 million club option. They'll pay him a $ 2
1:36
Speaker 1: million buyout instead. Maybe the closest thing there was to
1:40
Speaker 1: a surprise, our friend Jacob Wagaspak, the midseason addition, coming
1:44
Speaker 1: back on a $ 1. 3 million guaranteed deal, so the Tigers
1:48
Speaker 1: keeping him around. And then they reinstated basically everyone from
1:52
Speaker 1: the 60-day IL, which meant they had to clear some space.
1:57
Speaker 1: Bailey Horn, Sawyer Gibson Long have been placed on outright
2:00
Speaker 1: release waivers. Corey Jokes also outrighted, and Gilbert Diaz DFA'd.
2:06
Speaker 1: So those four guys presumably not coming back. Raj, any
2:10
Speaker 1: of those stand out as surprising to you at all?
2:13
Speaker 2: I think you and I were both pretty accurate on
2:15
Speaker 2: all of those, I think, from last week. I believe so.
2:18
Speaker 2: So no surprise there. Sawyer Gibson Long, if he wasn't
2:22
Speaker 2: going to call up in the middle of the year,
2:24
Speaker 2: he was never going to get a call up, and
2:25
Speaker 2: he was just eating in Toledo. Um, Diaz, I was
2:28
Speaker 2: kind of somewhat surprised, but I think you can probably
2:31
Speaker 2: clear waivers. And he's a guy that has some stuff
2:34
Speaker 2: you can work with, but, uh, wagons back. Look, I mean,
2:39
Speaker 2: the guy made the most out of 92, 93 and
2:41
Speaker 2: his stuff. And, and so he added, I think to
2:43
Speaker 2: me a little bit of stability for the bullpen. And
2:47
Speaker 2: it was somebody who I think that you look, you
2:49
Speaker 2: look at the numbers and you're just like, well, they don't,
2:52
Speaker 2: anything stands out, but he got, he was using high
2:55
Speaker 2: leverage distributions. You see, you see the five holes there.
2:58
Speaker 2: He did what he was supposed to do, and honestly,
3:00
Speaker 2: having a veteran like that in the back of the
3:02
Speaker 2: bullpen isn't necessarily a bad thing. I like it. It
3:06
Speaker 2: doesn't cost him too much, and it gives them another
3:10
Speaker 2: option with injuries the way they have been as of late.
3:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the Wags Pack thing surprises me a
3:17
Speaker 1: little bit. He's 32 years old. He had never had
3:20
Speaker 1: sustained success before. He probably didn't get quite enough credit
3:23
Speaker 1: for the way he came in midseason. Tigers picked him
3:26
Speaker 1: up from the Brewers, and He kind of helped stabilize
3:29
Speaker 1: some things during a very rough time, the 2-4-9 ERA
3:32
Speaker 1: he'll take. I would just point out only 35 strikeouts
3:36
Speaker 1: in 47 innings. I believe that equates to like 6.7
3:39
Speaker 1: Ks per 9. This guy doesn't really help. He does
3:42
Speaker 1: get a lot of ground balls, limits hard contact, but
3:45
Speaker 1: he doesn't really help that looming mission to strike out
3:48
Speaker 1: more guys, to miss more bats in the bullpen. I
3:51
Speaker 1: also just fear there could be some regression coming because, again,
3:54
Speaker 1: he's 32. He's never quite stuck before. Now he does
3:57
Speaker 1: have a big arm angle. He's a, he's a different look.
4:00
Speaker 1: That's one of the things the Tigers really like about him.
4:03
Speaker 1: That 1.3 million, there are some incentives that can bump
4:06
Speaker 1: them all the way up to 1.5 million. It's a
4:10
Speaker 1: small amount of money. So if it comes out of
4:12
Speaker 1: the gate and he's not pitching well, you can, you
4:14
Speaker 1: can part with them and it doesn't hurt you. So
4:17
Speaker 1: I don't really have like a problem with them bringing
4:19
Speaker 1: him back, but to give them guaranteed major league money,
4:22
Speaker 1: I would, I would frame as, as a mild surprise. That's,
4:26
Speaker 1: That's about it. And then, you know, all the guys
4:29
Speaker 1: they activated from the 60 day. I kind of expected
4:33
Speaker 1: all those guys would be back, but you never know
4:35
Speaker 1: for sure. Like, you know, kind of the Trey Sweeney's
4:38
Speaker 1: of the world. They're going ahead and putting them all
4:40
Speaker 1: on the 40 man roster for now. Again, the Tigers
4:43
Speaker 1: will have a few other decisions to make come the
4:46
Speaker 1: rule five protection deadline. Already saw a couple comments like,
4:49
Speaker 1: do you even have to do that if there's going
4:51
Speaker 1: to be a lockout? The answer is yes, because you
4:54
Speaker 1: just never know. It would be like a fireable offense
4:57
Speaker 1: to not protect your prospects. There may not be a
5:01
Speaker 1: Rule 5 draft, but teams will still add players to
5:04
Speaker 1: the 40-man because of the Rule 5 deadline. One other
5:08
Speaker 1: thing I wanted to get to, Raj, last week, right
5:11
Speaker 1: as we were on air, the Tigers made another addition,
5:14
Speaker 1: a trade with the Red Sox for a shortstop, Sung
5:18
Speaker 1: She Chang. I think I have that pronunciation close to right.
5:23
Speaker 1: And he's a 40-man player. Raj, what were your impressions
5:26
Speaker 1: of that move?
5:28
Speaker 2: Well, initially I thought it was just strange to me
5:31
Speaker 2: because the Tigers have this, a bunch of these infielders,
5:34
Speaker 2: they have to make a decision on Max Anderson, for example,
5:37
Speaker 2: and he has to be added to the 40-man. So
5:39
Speaker 2: I thought that was, when I wrote about it, I
5:43
Speaker 2: was like, well, you have to think about Pack, you
5:45
Speaker 2: have to think about Young, you have to think about
5:47
Speaker 2: all these guys in how you we. But I can
5:51
Speaker 2: see why the Tigers liked him a lot. I mean,
5:52
Speaker 2: he's a very plus defender. There was a, there was a, uh,
5:55
Speaker 2: I guess I can get Detroit. He made a really
5:56
Speaker 2: good play to preserve a shutout. I believe it was
5:59
Speaker 2: for Boston. I saw a highlight of that. Uh, I
6:02
Speaker 2: had a really good walk rate. The minors have very good.
6:04
Speaker 2: I follows those things. Like lefty bat, which is like,
6:08
Speaker 2: all right, we have enough lefty stands. So I know
6:11
Speaker 2: it was the first thing people, Oh, come on. Another lefty.
6:12
Speaker 2: But in all reality, he gives them a solid, solid
6:16
Speaker 2: defensive bat, a solid defensive presence. But, I just think
6:20
Speaker 2: that this is just a placeholder for things to come, Cody.
6:23
Speaker 2: I really think so because there's so many of these
6:26
Speaker 2: infielders on this roster right now. And I know one
6:29
Speaker 2: of the things that came up was, well, it looks
6:31
Speaker 2: like he's primarily shortstop. Well, just like every other Tiger infielder,
6:34
Speaker 2: he can play multiple positions like he did in the infield.
6:37
Speaker 2: So it just fits that motif again. I just kind
6:40
Speaker 2: of wonder if this is the first placeholder for other
6:44
Speaker 2: things to come, honestly.
6:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a little bit my read on it too.
6:47
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily have a problem with the player. Sounds
6:50
Speaker 1: like he has an interesting skill set. He can run
6:52
Speaker 1: a little bit, but seems a little bit redundant to
6:56
Speaker 1: Trey Sweeney. If you're looking straight for defense, you have
6:59
Speaker 1: John Peck. It's easy to forget Javi Baez is still
7:03
Speaker 1: under contract here. He's going to start the season on
7:06
Speaker 1: this roster. It seems like the Tigers, I mean, look
7:09
Speaker 1: at how long they carried Zach Schwart last season. They
7:12
Speaker 1: clearly value infield defense or are starting to value infield
7:16
Speaker 1: defense more, really value having glove options at shortstop, placeholder.
7:22
Speaker 1: Maybe at some point they could DFA someone like Chang
7:26
Speaker 1: or maybe even Sweeney and try to sneak that through waivers.
7:31
Speaker 1: Maybe it's just a way of building depth so that
7:33
Speaker 1: you don't have to midseason go get Zach short and
7:37
Speaker 1: put him on your big league roster. That's kind of
7:39
Speaker 1: what this feels like to me. But yeah, maybe a
7:42
Speaker 1: little bit surprising there. In terms of other news, hopefully
7:45
Speaker 1: I'm not forgetting a thing. We had a lot going on.
7:48
Speaker 1: Let's start with the good one. Dylan Dingler won his
7:50
Speaker 1: second consecutive gold glove. Zach McKinstry was the Tigers' other finalist.
7:54
Speaker 1: He did not. Wasn't a surprise to me. Raj, do
7:58
Speaker 1: you think Dingler was deserving of his second straight gold
8:02
Speaker 1: glove award?
8:03
Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely. I mean, Dylan Dingler, even despite the offensive struggles,
8:07
Speaker 2: was still a defensive presence for the Tigers, was able
8:10
Speaker 2: to stop the running game. And even if you look at,
8:13
Speaker 2: the workload he did after Jake Rogers was released, the
8:17
Speaker 2: ability to still have a defensive glove like that, the
8:19
Speaker 2: amount of more innings he took on. I mean, I
8:24
Speaker 2: know towards the end of the year he was beat up,
8:25
Speaker 2: and you can tell a little bit, but I think
8:28
Speaker 2: that it was well-deserved. And the fact that we saw
8:31
Speaker 2: that pop time and throwing down there as fast as
8:34
Speaker 2: he does, because all things considering, he definitely deserves it.
8:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, I certainly agree. And it kind of gets lost
8:42
Speaker 1: in the shuffle. You know, Kieran and I had talked
8:44
Speaker 1: a lot about Dingler's second half decline. And again, like,
8:49
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know if this guy's going
8:50
Speaker 1: to play at an MVP level for the rest of
8:52
Speaker 1: his career, but he doesn't have to, even if he doesn't. Like,
8:56
Speaker 1: you have a gold glove caliber catcher who can hit
8:59
Speaker 1: a little bit and is a pretty nice piece to
9:02
Speaker 1: continue building around any way you cut it. You know,
9:06
Speaker 1: I think some people got mad at me last week
9:09
Speaker 1: for comparing the Tigers culture to the Brewers and again
9:12
Speaker 1: that was a little bit less about like even less
9:15
Speaker 1: about like the players and like Dingler I think is
9:17
Speaker 1: a good culture guy plays his heart out it was
9:21
Speaker 1: just more like the feel around the team and around
9:24
Speaker 1: the organization is every team's a little bit different and
9:28
Speaker 1: I don't take back that the Tigers have gotten a
9:29
Speaker 1: little more corporate that doesn't mean they don't have some
9:32
Speaker 1: really good things going for them too one of the
9:35
Speaker 1: good things they have going for them on the field
9:37
Speaker 1: off the field I think it's Dylan Zingler.
9:40
Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely. And I knew exactly what you meant by
9:42
Speaker 2: that because even just going in the clubhouses that I
9:45
Speaker 2: have been so far, there is a different feel in
9:48
Speaker 2: there comparatively speaking than what you're dealing with with the Brewers.
9:51
Speaker 2: I mean, the Brewers were on SNL over the weekend,
9:54
Speaker 2: and I don't know if you saw that skit or not,
9:55
Speaker 2: a weekend update. They were on the weekend update skit,
9:58
Speaker 2: and I just don't see.
10:00
Speaker 1: Can that be the focus of this whole episode what
10:03
Speaker 1: tiger is going to be the star of snl i
10:05
Speaker 1: i guess i'm sure max clark would do well but uh.
10:08
Speaker 2: Oh max clark but i think you know what though
10:10
Speaker 2: i mean honestly if you put riley green in there
10:11
Speaker 2: i think riley green can surprise you and really just
10:14
Speaker 2: say something just out off the wall and just give
10:16
Speaker 2: you that because he has so many special I think
10:18
Speaker 2: we had so many great facial expressions too sometimes too,
10:20
Speaker 2: but no, Dinkler, you know, I even see Dinkler doing
10:24
Speaker 2: it too, just to kind of do the wink and
10:26
Speaker 2: the nudge kind of thing. But look, it is what
10:29
Speaker 2: you said was perfectly fine. And as far as Dinkler goes,
10:34
Speaker 2: he is a good, every time always we want to
10:36
Speaker 2: talk to him in the clubhouse after a game, he's
10:38
Speaker 2: very good with just telling you what he sees and
10:42
Speaker 2: even like just talking about his game this year. One
10:43
Speaker 2: of the things I noticed about him this year, when
10:46
Speaker 2: we did talk to us a little bit about what
10:47
Speaker 2: he was doing offensively to just improve himself. And so, um, yeah, I,
10:54
Speaker 2: like I said, if another guy had asked us, can
10:56
Speaker 2: you imagine AJ Hinch though, trying to deliver the same
10:59
Speaker 2: way that Pat Murphy did? Could he do it?
11:03
Speaker 1: I'm sure. Yes. AJ in his right mood can be
11:06
Speaker 1: highly entertaining, but it is a little harder to, to
11:08
Speaker 1: just picture. So, uh, AJ, we would love to see
11:11
Speaker 1: you on SNL one of these days. The other thing
11:14
Speaker 1: I wanted to get to real quick, Roger, Max Anderson,
11:17
Speaker 1: a minor league gold glove. Max Anderson famously not promoted
11:22
Speaker 1: his defensive deficiencies, seemingly one of the reasons, yet here
11:26
Speaker 1: he is with a minor league gold glove. What did
11:29
Speaker 1: you make of that, and what do you make of
11:31
Speaker 1: him generally as a defender?
11:33
Speaker 2: I think he's not bad as a defender at second base.
11:35
Speaker 2: He really isn't. At third base, he felt like he
11:37
Speaker 2: held his own. Keep in mind, Jace Young won this
11:40
Speaker 2: war in 2023. Yeah. Reese Olsen. won this award. And
11:45
Speaker 2: then after that, it's been like, you know, it's a
11:47
Speaker 2: who's who of Tiger minor leaders, such as Mike Gerber, uh,
11:50
Speaker 2: Dominic Choco. Um, those, that was before your time, Cody. And,
11:54
Speaker 2: and like this, it's one of those things where I,
11:58
Speaker 2: he is a very good second baseman. He's improved a
12:01
Speaker 2: lot since I remember a couple of years ago in Erie,
12:04
Speaker 2: when he first got to Erie, a lot of his
12:05
Speaker 2: footwork was just not, he wasn't there to fence defensively,
12:10
Speaker 2: but he's improved a lot. And I think even in
12:12
Speaker 2: the times I've seen my third base, uh, made the
12:15
Speaker 2: throws more consistently than how you lead did when he
12:17
Speaker 2: was at Toledo or how you leave sometimes just overthrew
12:19
Speaker 2: and got too excited. But I mean, that's really good
12:22
Speaker 2: for him. And I think he, I think he prides
12:25
Speaker 2: himself on his defense. It's again, I know a lot
12:27
Speaker 2: of people out there are saying, well, you guys always
12:30
Speaker 2: brag about his defense. Well, let's see how he does
12:33
Speaker 2: in the major league level. That's a big, there's a
12:34
Speaker 2: big difference there. The game moves a lot faster, but
12:37
Speaker 2: I think as far as like him losing weight and
12:41
Speaker 2: getting in shape, I think that's a big part of
12:42
Speaker 2: why he's a much better defender than he was last
12:45
Speaker 2: beginning of last year the year.
12:46
Speaker 1: Before yeah we'll see i i didn't my first thought
12:50
Speaker 1: went to jace young like jace young had kind of
12:53
Speaker 1: a similar uh reputation still has a little bit of
12:56
Speaker 1: a similar profile as a player hits left-handed of course
13:00
Speaker 1: max hits hits right-handed but um jace won that award
13:04
Speaker 1: and was like oh maybe he's not getting enough credit
13:06
Speaker 1: for his defense and then yet still he has not
13:10
Speaker 1: been viewed as a guy the Tigers like enough to
13:13
Speaker 1: give much of a run in the major leagues, and
13:15
Speaker 1: the defense is seemingly a big part of that. I
13:18
Speaker 1: don't know if Max is better or worse than Jace
13:21
Speaker 1: at second base. To me, they seem kind of similar,
13:24
Speaker 1: and they can actually make the routine plays. It's not
13:27
Speaker 1: like they're just, you know, botching balls all over the field, but,
13:31
Speaker 1: you know, how good is the range? How good is
13:32
Speaker 1: the arm, actually, especially at your point, Raj, when the
13:35
Speaker 1: game speeds up? I think that's been one of the
13:37
Speaker 1: concerns with Jace. Like, hey, you can't double pump every
13:41
Speaker 1: throw from third. You can't do a crow hop across
13:43
Speaker 1: the infield. Little things that maybe you can get away
13:46
Speaker 1: with a little more in the minor leagues you can't
13:48
Speaker 1: do in the major leagues. So again, I'm not here
13:50
Speaker 1: to say which of them is better or worse. Congrats
13:56
Speaker 1: to Max Anderson for winning a minor league gold glove.
13:58
Speaker 1: How much does it actually mean?
13:59
Speaker 2: I'm unsure. Yeah, I don't really, in the grand scheme
14:03
Speaker 2: of things, it is nice for him to win that award,
14:06
Speaker 2: and as you said, but as far as him being
14:09
Speaker 2: a second baseman, I just think he's the big league level.
14:11
Speaker 2: He's just going to be at second base. I don't
14:12
Speaker 2: think they should experiment with this third basing anymore and
14:16
Speaker 2: just keep them at second because it limited like left
14:19
Speaker 2: to right. I think he's, he's all right. I mean,
14:22
Speaker 2: it's the same thing with how he's worked has been
14:24
Speaker 2: a work in progress. And I think personally he's better
14:26
Speaker 2: suited at second base. Same thing. I just don't, yeah,
14:30
Speaker 2: I don't just don't think of the range of third. Yeah.
14:32
Speaker 1: All right, well, that's it for news and notes. We're
14:35
Speaker 1: going to go into the headliner of this episode, which
14:38
Speaker 1: is five potential free agent starting pitching targets. I think
14:42
Speaker 1: there's an expectation the Tigers will add probably at least one,
14:46
Speaker 1: I would say maybe two starting pitchers on major league deals.
14:51
Speaker 1: That's even with them bringing back Drew Anderson. Again, they're
14:54
Speaker 1: going to have Frambois Valdez, Troy Melton, Jackson Jobe. There
14:57
Speaker 1: will be River Ryan, Reese Olsen in this discussion, Cater Montero,
15:02
Speaker 1: of course, very much in this discussion. But last year
15:05
Speaker 1: proved you have to build out some depth. So it
15:08
Speaker 1: seems like, Raj, you've already got some names at the ready.
15:12
Speaker 1: We can start, I guess, number one. Who's the first
15:15
Speaker 1: guy you want to talk about here?
15:17
Speaker 2: Michael King. Because we were talking about this off air
15:21
Speaker 2: that the Tigers were interested in last year. I like
15:24
Speaker 2: the variety of pitches you can throw. You can throw
15:26
Speaker 2: a sinker, changeup, sweeper. and his changeup batters hit it
15:31
Speaker 2: 204 against it. And I think really working with Chris
15:35
Speaker 2: Fetter doesn't have to overhaul everything. The FIP is just
15:40
Speaker 2: some of the things I was concerned about with, is
15:42
Speaker 2: he going to be the ace? No, I think he's
15:44
Speaker 2: going to be a good solid two or three guy
15:46
Speaker 2: in your rotation. And so I think having those expectations
15:49
Speaker 2: of him being the guy that can come in and
15:51
Speaker 2: give you 100. He had 159 strikeouts and 185 innings
15:53
Speaker 2: last year. So just giving the Tigers innings, just really
16:00
Speaker 2: good innings, good quality starts, that's all that King should
16:05
Speaker 2: be able to do, just come in and just provide
16:07
Speaker 2: a stable force.
16:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, I certainly like Michael King a lot. A lot
16:12
Speaker 1: of people have him as maybe the third or fourth
16:15
Speaker 1: best starter in this class. I think Tarek Schubel is
16:18
Speaker 1: the clear number one. You have Freddy Peralta. You have
16:21
Speaker 1: some other really interesting guys, but King certainly up there.
16:25
Speaker 1: And then I think that bodes the question, okay, the Tigers,
16:28
Speaker 1: they're probably going to add some pitching. How much do
16:31
Speaker 1: they want to spend on pitching? I could see Michael
16:34
Speaker 1: King wanting north of $ 100 million if you talk about
16:39
Speaker 1: four years, maybe 25 to 30 mil a year. This
16:42
Speaker 1: is a guy who's been a four-win pitcher, I believe,
16:44
Speaker 1: two of the past three seasons. So that doesn't seem
16:46
Speaker 1: crazy to me. I do think the Tigers would most
16:50
Speaker 1: likely want to keep things shorter term. And given they
16:54
Speaker 1: probably think they have some other front-end guys in hand,
16:57
Speaker 1: I have a hard time seeing them really ponying up
17:02
Speaker 1: to sign a guy like Michael King. I think they
17:05
Speaker 1: liked him last year. He was coming off a down year.
17:08
Speaker 1: I believe he had been injured a bit. It seemed
17:11
Speaker 1: to make a little more sense there. So I'd love
17:14
Speaker 1: it if they got Michael King. I'm not sure they're
17:17
Speaker 1: going to spin to get Michael King would be my thought.
17:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the same thing with number two, with Freddy Peralta,
17:24
Speaker 2: who I have next up on the list, because you
17:26
Speaker 2: look at his final 10 starts in the year in
17:29
Speaker 2: Tampa Bay, posting area 3.25, and he's a guy who
17:34
Speaker 2: Tampa Bay made those changes to his setup, so is
17:39
Speaker 2: that something that would be sustainable? Is that something that's
17:41
Speaker 2: going to be consistent? But, I mean, Peralta at the
17:44
Speaker 2: same time, I mean, I can see him going back
17:46
Speaker 2: to a bigger market, like maybe the Yankees or something
17:49
Speaker 2: like that, and I hate saying the Yankees because it's
17:51
Speaker 2: always like the Yankees are always involved in all that,
17:53
Speaker 2: and that being true. But still, I don't know, Peralta
17:56
Speaker 2: might be too rich for their blood, but that's a
17:57
Speaker 2: guy who I really think would fit well with this rotation.
18:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is interesting. He was kind of bad enough
18:05
Speaker 1: at times, especially with the Mets. He ends up only
18:08
Speaker 1: being 0.7 B-war for the year. Now, the year before that,
18:12
Speaker 1: he was a 5.5 win pitcher. I think it helps
18:17
Speaker 1: that he was better in Tampa, began to pitch more
18:20
Speaker 1: like himself toward the end and even a little bit
18:23
Speaker 1: there in the playoffs. I have a little harder time
18:28
Speaker 1: kind of gauging his market, to be honest with you.
18:32
Speaker 1: He's 30. I believe King is 31. Still, I would
18:36
Speaker 1: think this is a guy you're looking at in the
18:39
Speaker 1: $ 100 million range. But if for some reason teams get
18:42
Speaker 1: a bad feel about Based on how he pitched at times,
18:48
Speaker 1: based on how he pitched with the Mets, you know,
18:50
Speaker 1: is it a market that could go down a little bit?
18:53
Speaker 1: This is actually, for as much as we talk about
18:54
Speaker 1: this being a weak free agent class, as much as
18:58
Speaker 1: Scooble is, I think, the only, like, real surefire, even
19:01
Speaker 1: all-star level pitcher, there's a pretty good run of, like,
19:07
Speaker 1: solid starters. We're talking about five of them today. We're
19:10
Speaker 1: going to talk about some more later in the week.
19:12
Speaker 1: There's a lot of them out there. And so I'll
19:15
Speaker 1: be curious to just gauge the market for guys like that.
19:19
Speaker 1: Who do you got at number three?
19:21
Speaker 2: At number three, I have the Kevin Gosman, and now
19:25
Speaker 2: people are going to probably go, boo, Rogelio, that's an
19:28
Speaker 2: old starter. And I get it, and I get it,
19:30
Speaker 2: because we've been burned by age here. He's 36 years old.
19:34
Speaker 2: But when you have a whiff rate of 42% with
19:38
Speaker 2: the split finger, And if you're holding it to a
19:41
Speaker 2: 207 batting average, look, man, I don't care. If you're
19:44
Speaker 2: bringing them in for a one-year, two-year deal to really
19:47
Speaker 2: kind of help you get over the hump to get
19:49
Speaker 2: your other guys ready, this isn't a guy where his
19:52
Speaker 2: numbers are so declining that you kind of give pause. But,
19:57
Speaker 2: I don't know, just a short deal. Maybe a one-year,
20:00
Speaker 2: two-year deal tops with this guy. But I think Gosman
20:02
Speaker 2: would be a solid bet. As you mentioned, Cody, as
20:06
Speaker 2: a good glue rotation, somebody you can put in the
20:08
Speaker 2: middle of the rotation.
20:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, the age does scare me a little bit just
20:12
Speaker 1: given the history. He's 35. I believe he'll be going
20:15
Speaker 1: on his age 36 season. But, man, he still gets
20:20
Speaker 1: a lot of chase. He gets a good amount of whiff.
20:23
Speaker 1: The splitter is hard not to like. There was a
20:25
Speaker 1: time Casey Mize was kind of modeling some of the
20:28
Speaker 1: things he wanted to do with his splitter after Kevin Gosman.
20:31
Speaker 1: The splitter got a 42.9% whiff rate last year. Actually
20:36
Speaker 1: does seem to me like a guy who could be
20:38
Speaker 1: another adjustment or two away from having another really good year,
20:43
Speaker 1: I think there could be some good baseball there left
20:45
Speaker 1: for Kevin Gosman, and if it is a one to
20:48
Speaker 1: two year deal, and maybe you can feel, you feel
20:52
Speaker 1: like you can kind of tolerate that risk, obviously, I
20:56
Speaker 1: think any guy north of 35 is going to be
20:59
Speaker 1: under a lot of scrutiny, if he comes to a
21:02
Speaker 1: Scott Harris team, you don't want that to go badly,
21:05
Speaker 1: but If he's the second guy you assign, let's say
21:08
Speaker 1: you assign someone a little better and then you're able
21:10
Speaker 1: to get Gosman on top of that, I wouldn't hate it.
21:13
Speaker 1: I think the other question, and we're going to talk
21:15
Speaker 1: about this in a bit, is would you rather have
21:19
Speaker 1: one guy to add to your rotation and then another
21:21
Speaker 1: guy to be in more of a swingman role who
21:23
Speaker 1: could pitch as a starter or a reliever, kind of
21:27
Speaker 1: making the puzzle pieces work together. It could be a
21:30
Speaker 1: little bit of a question. So I like a lot
21:33
Speaker 1: about Gosman's game. The age lingers as an obvious concern.
21:37
Speaker 1: Who else we got here?
21:38
Speaker 2: So number four, and this is somebody you mentioned, and
21:41
Speaker 2: I kind of switched gears a little bit with Michael Sorka,
21:44
Speaker 2: who we saw last year on the road with the Diamondbacks,
21:48
Speaker 2: when the Tigers were on the road against the Diamondbacks,
21:49
Speaker 2: and he just went, and I remember watching the game going,
21:52
Speaker 2: that's the same guy that I saw with the Braves,
21:54
Speaker 2: I think he was in Kansas City too, where he just,
21:57
Speaker 2: it's one of those like, okay, the Tigers are facing
21:59
Speaker 2: another no-name, quote-unquote no-name pitcher, and he went out there
22:03
Speaker 2: and shoved K per nine, 8.8, which is solid. He
22:10
Speaker 2: throws that slur. That slur was ridiculous. The biggest problem, though,
22:13
Speaker 2: is he can sequence himself really well. The problem is
22:18
Speaker 2: his injuries. He had an arm inflammation. He's been banged
22:21
Speaker 2: up quite a bit. And his age, though, is something
22:24
Speaker 2: that you can like, though. He's 29 years old. I
22:26
Speaker 2: think he turns 30 next year, I think. I'm not 100%
22:29
Speaker 2: about that. But either way. That's a guy who I
22:32
Speaker 2: like back in the rotation. Give him a two-year deal,
22:35
Speaker 2: and then that, maybe with incentives because of the injury history,
22:39
Speaker 2: but he declined his $ 10 million mutual option with Arizona,
22:44
Speaker 2: so that's a guy who I like to see as well.
22:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, Soroka, a name I've kind of liked for a while,
22:50
Speaker 1: one of those guys whose sheer performance has never really
22:53
Speaker 1: matched the quality of his stuff, maybe until this past
22:56
Speaker 1: year when he only threw 116 innings, but you see
22:58
Speaker 1: the the three one four ERA, um, some, some things
23:04
Speaker 1: to like metrically. He's more of a fly ball pitcher.
23:06
Speaker 1: And oddly enough, even in Comerica park, the fly ball pitchers,
23:10
Speaker 1: the tigers have brought in Kenley Jansen being one of them. Um, um, uh, I'm,
23:17
Speaker 1: I'm blanking on the name, uh, uh, twins pitcher.
23:21
Speaker 2: Um, Oh, uh, Joe Nathan.
23:23
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no. Under Scott Harris. It's, it's a
23:26
Speaker 1: Japanese pitcher, uh.
23:27
Speaker 2: Oh, Kenta Maeda.
23:29
Speaker 1: Kenta Maeda, sorry. Kenta Maeda was a fly ball pitcher.
23:33
Speaker 1: And at the time, Scott Harris said, well, you know, hey,
23:36
Speaker 1: big park, whatever. You thought it would fare well. It didn't.
23:39
Speaker 1: That is one potential concern with Soroka. One of those
23:45
Speaker 1: guys who, again, I think if this were two years
23:48
Speaker 1: ago and we kind of still viewed the Tigers as like, oh,
23:51
Speaker 1: they get a lot of things right. They help optimize guys.
23:54
Speaker 1: he would be a great candidate for them. He's just
23:57
Speaker 1: never quite put it all together and been able to
23:59
Speaker 1: stay healthy. I'm looking at his arm angle, Raj. His
24:02
Speaker 1: arm angle has changed drastically over the years. 2023, he
24:07
Speaker 1: was throwing at a 41-degree arm angle. That dropped all
24:11
Speaker 1: the way down to 26 degrees, so a lot lower
24:14
Speaker 1: arm slot he was coming out of last season. Seemed
24:17
Speaker 1: to maybe help him have success, but I wonder what
24:19
Speaker 1: the Tigers would think of that and think of his
24:22
Speaker 1: arm slot. Again, they haven't had as much success with
24:26
Speaker 1: these kind of reclamation types or optimization types in the
24:30
Speaker 1: past two years or past year and a half. So
24:33
Speaker 1: maybe that makes me a little more hesitant. But Soroka's also,
24:37
Speaker 1: because he's never quite had that sustained level of success,
24:40
Speaker 1: I think I'm sure he views himself as a starter,
24:43
Speaker 1: just had a nice season as a starter. But if
24:46
Speaker 1: you wanted to pitch him, hey, a little more of
24:48
Speaker 1: a swingman role, maybe you could get away with that.
24:50
Speaker 2: So....
24:52
Speaker 1: You know, if you're looking to fill in the back
24:53
Speaker 1: end of your rotation, I think you could do worse
24:55
Speaker 1: than Michael Soroka for sure. And I ultimately think the
24:58
Speaker 1: price point is going to be at a range that
25:01
Speaker 1: is a lot more palatable for the Tigers than, than
25:03
Speaker 1: like a Michael King.
25:05
Speaker 2: Yeah. And you know what? And I got my team,
25:08
Speaker 2: AL Central teams confused. It was with the White Sox
25:10
Speaker 2: where he was just a machine. And so the fact
25:13
Speaker 2: that he's able to cut back his walks a little
25:14
Speaker 2: bit bodes well for the Tigers if they're interested in
25:18
Speaker 2: signing him. But you're, you're right though. It's, I do Mike, Mike,
25:21
Speaker 2: I have like a lot of, like a lot of, uh,
25:23
Speaker 2: questions about his durability. Yeah.
25:26
Speaker 1: And that's scary. But again, you drop the walks, you
25:29
Speaker 1: would think that's something that tigers would be interested in.
25:32
Speaker 1: And this is another guy. I do remember hearing at
25:34
Speaker 1: one point that at least some people, uh, in the
25:37
Speaker 1: tigers organization or in, on the, um, analytics side, liked
25:42
Speaker 1: this guy. I believe that was after the 2024 season.
25:46
Speaker 1: So maybe something to keep an eye on there. Um,
25:50
Speaker 1: Who else do we have on this list?
25:53
Speaker 2: Uh, last, um, on this, for this list for this
25:55
Speaker 2: evening is Chris Bubicic, who's a pitcher for the Dodgers
26:00
Speaker 2: and 56 strikeouts and 55 innings. Uh, he's got a 24%
26:06
Speaker 2: strikeout rate, throws a four seamer, sinker, changeup, sweeper, and
26:10
Speaker 2: a slider. Uh, You can give the argument that he
26:14
Speaker 2: is a guy that, again, fits that swing starter routine.
26:16
Speaker 2: I know this is kind of like a... I've been
26:18
Speaker 2: saying this quite often, but I feel like the Tigers
26:21
Speaker 2: leaned into that quite a bit last year with openers.
26:23
Speaker 2: And so one thing is the control. 26 walks and
26:28
Speaker 2: 55 innings. And so the reason why I was thinking
26:32
Speaker 2: more of a reliever is because he only made nine starts.
26:34
Speaker 2: And so the Dodgers used him, I believe, pretty much
26:36
Speaker 2: excessively out of the bullpen.
26:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, he wasn't quite built up all the way, I
26:39
Speaker 1: don't think.
26:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. And so... Depends on how the Tigers view them,
26:44
Speaker 2: because I recall last year, Cody, there was a couple
26:46
Speaker 2: of free agents last year, and I can't remember, I
26:48
Speaker 2: forgot which one it was. There was two free agents
26:50
Speaker 2: that the Tigers wanted to make into starters.
26:53
Speaker 1: Ryan Helsley was one of them.
26:55
Speaker 2: Yes.
26:56
Speaker 1: Nick Martinez was another who ended up going on to
26:59
Speaker 1: have a very good year.
27:00
Speaker 2: Yeah. So that being said, it's like, so I wonder
27:04
Speaker 2: if that's going to also play a part of the
27:06
Speaker 2: Tigers going to be a little more open-minded this year
27:07
Speaker 2: and go, all right, whatever has to get done, whatever
27:10
Speaker 2: we have to do to get this done. So I
27:13
Speaker 2: really think that's also going to play into the mindset
27:15
Speaker 2: a little bit because they got spurned last year by,
27:19
Speaker 2: depending on how the conversation went, allegedly. So we'll see
27:24
Speaker 2: how that goes, but I think that could be said
27:26
Speaker 2: for Chris here as well.
27:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, this might be my favorite of the, not my
27:32
Speaker 1: favorite overall as a pitcher, but my favorite of the
27:34
Speaker 1: likelihood and the fit landing in Detroit. One thing to
27:38
Speaker 1: keep in mind, Buvich is left-handed. Right now, Fromber would
27:41
Speaker 1: be the Tigers' only left-handed starter. I don't think it
27:45
Speaker 1: would hurt you to have a second guy in that conversation.
27:49
Speaker 1: If you just think back two years ago, Raj, there
27:53
Speaker 1: was a time where he was killing it. He had
27:57
Speaker 1: a 2-5-5 ERA in 2025. He was hurt toward the
28:01
Speaker 1: tail end of that year and wasn't quite right and
28:04
Speaker 1: wasn't quite healthy at any point this season. But there
28:07
Speaker 1: was a time where he was pitching well. at a
28:10
Speaker 1: Cy Young level, looked like he had really found some
28:12
Speaker 1: things out. The injuries make him a little bit more
28:15
Speaker 1: of a buy-low candidate. But this is a guy who
28:20
Speaker 1: has done this before at a high level. Again, like
28:24
Speaker 1: I said, could be a lefty. I think you're going
28:27
Speaker 1: to be able to get him on a pretty team-friendly
28:31
Speaker 1: deal given the overall complexion of things. More of a
28:35
Speaker 1: ground ball type pitcher. Um, I, I like this, I think.
28:40
Speaker 1: And yeah, worst case scenario, maybe he ends up being
28:43
Speaker 1: a little more of a swing man, even though I
28:44
Speaker 1: think he's still very much a starter when fully healthy,
28:47
Speaker 1: when fully built up. I guess one of the things
28:50
Speaker 1: we've talked about with almost every one of these guys
28:52
Speaker 1: is injuries is durability. And some people are going to
28:57
Speaker 1: lose their jobs if the Tigers bring in more starters
28:59
Speaker 1: who get injured. That's just an unfortunate reality, even though
29:03
Speaker 1: it's kind of out of anybody's control. I wonder if
29:06
Speaker 1: there will be a little bit of a higher bar
29:08
Speaker 1: in terms of, hey, we have to get guys that
29:10
Speaker 1: we think are going to hold up. There's beginning to
29:13
Speaker 1: be a little too much at stake because you can't
29:15
Speaker 1: have another Alex Cobb. You can't have another Justin Verlander. Again,
29:23
Speaker 1: that's just part of the game, but it is interesting
29:25
Speaker 1: when we talk about some of these names, especially the
29:27
Speaker 1: guys who might be a little more affordable or let's
29:31
Speaker 1: just say shorter-term deals. Usually that's for a reason, and
29:35
Speaker 1: a lot of times injuries are one of the chief reasons.
29:38
Speaker 2: I also forgot to mention, too, which also went to Stanford. Ooh,
29:43
Speaker 2: let's go. Yeah.
29:46
Speaker 1: Ryan and A.J. Hinch, let's get this done.
29:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're saying the Cardinal find a way to flock together.
29:53
Speaker 2: I mean, I know it's singular, not plural, because they're
29:57
Speaker 2: talking about the trees, but regardless, it's still, Stanford people, yeah,
30:03
Speaker 2: they like each other a lot.
30:06
Speaker 1: You are not wrong. Alright, well, those are five starting pitchers.
30:11
Speaker 1: We're going to be back next time with five more
30:13
Speaker 1: starting pitchers. I figure if we talk about them all,
30:15
Speaker 1: maybe the Tigers will sign one of them. Anything else
30:20
Speaker 1: you got for today, Raj?
30:23
Speaker 2: Really, just like I said, I'm looking forward to, we
30:26
Speaker 2: just talked about this really briefly, I think it's There's
30:29
Speaker 2: going to be a lot of moves here in the next–
30:31
Speaker 2: we have 28 days, and we're going to see a
30:33
Speaker 2: lot of– it's going to be– I think it's going
30:34
Speaker 2: to be really action-packed. Usually I know the offseason tends
30:37
Speaker 2: to move at a snail's pace, but the way– the
30:40
Speaker 2: thickness in the air about this being a potential lockout
30:42
Speaker 2: right now, I think– I'm just looking forward to every
30:46
Speaker 2: day something new happening. And that's what I hope because
30:49
Speaker 2: right now for– if you're– November is Thanksgiving and it
30:54
Speaker 2: gets a little quieter on baseball, let's heat it up
30:56
Speaker 2: a little bit. Come on. Let's get this done.
30:59
Speaker 1: It was fun having a somewhat of a deadline last
31:03
Speaker 1: time around last lockout. And it was really only a
31:05
Speaker 1: higher end guys who signed and it wasn't necessarily like
31:08
Speaker 1: all month was a flurry of action. But I remember
31:12
Speaker 1: the week leading up to what everyone knew was going
31:14
Speaker 1: to be a walk, a lockout is really tense. And
31:17
Speaker 1: then a lot of things happen in a short amount
31:18
Speaker 1: of time. And it was fun. One of the more
31:21
Speaker 1: interesting things I read today, uh, it may have been
31:23
Speaker 1: Ken Rosenthal or maybe Jeff pass in, but, uh, the
31:27
Speaker 1: idea that some executives think the trade market might actually
31:31
Speaker 1: take longer to play out. We might not see trades,
31:36
Speaker 1: a ton of trades in November, given the financial uncertainties,
31:39
Speaker 1: given the uncertainties around the CBA. There's a thought that
31:43
Speaker 1: even though I think a lot of these high-end free
31:45
Speaker 1: agents are going to sign in November, some of the
31:48
Speaker 1: trades could actually be post-CBA. So that would be interesting
31:53
Speaker 1: to to A, see whether that's true, and B, see
31:57
Speaker 1: what that ultimately looks like. I guess every offseason we
32:00
Speaker 1: say the Tigers could make more sense in the trade market,
32:02
Speaker 1: and they haven't really done it. But I think especially
32:05
Speaker 1: in terms of the position player market this time around,
32:07
Speaker 1: if they were going to do anything, I think it
32:09
Speaker 1: would be via trade.
32:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, it should be the case. But just again, look,
32:15
Speaker 2: we've talked about this before, Cody. I mean, somebody's got
32:18
Speaker 2: to blink at some point, and you've got to be
32:20
Speaker 2: creative here. Come on. Look how many infields you have.
32:24
Speaker 2: You got to do something. I mean, come on. Just saying.
32:28
Speaker 2: I don't know what they're going to do.
32:29
Speaker 1: We will at one point talk more trade ideas, but
32:33
Speaker 1: we are at time here. So thanks everyone for watching
32:36
Speaker 1: or listening. If you could hit that like button on
32:39
Speaker 1: YouTube or leave a five-star review on Apple and Spotify
32:42
Speaker 1: is always much appreciated. For Rogelio Castillo, I am Cody Stavenhagen.
32:47
Speaker 1: Hope you guys have a great