Latest / INSPIRE STORY / #076_ STORY INSPIRE: Fat Loss Scientist: Losing Weight Is Simple — Here’s Why You Still Can’t Do It

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#076_ STORY INSPIRE: Fat Loss Scientist: Losing Weight Is Simple — Here’s Why You Still Can’t Do It · INSPIRE STORY

0:00
Speaker 1: Everything you see on this table has strong scientific evidence
0:03
Speaker 1: that it will help us sleep.
0:04
Speaker 2: So we're going to dig into all of those in
0:05
Speaker 2: great detail.
0:06
Speaker 1: So the first one is a really good one.
0:07
Speaker 2: Kiwis.
0:08
Speaker 1: Kiwis?
0:08
Speaker 2: Yeah.
0:09
Speaker 1: So there's been good studies on them. So if you
0:11
Speaker 1: have two to three kiwis before bed, you'll see people
0:13
Speaker 1: sleeping better. Next on our list is sleep divorce. People
0:17
Speaker 1: generally don't sleep as well when you're in the same
0:19
Speaker 1: bed as others.
0:20
Speaker 2: Next, what about this?
0:21
Speaker 1: This has more evidence than the rest of these things combined.
0:23
Speaker 1: And it is effective.
0:23
Speaker 2: Another one to think about is sound. And it really matters, sound,
0:26
Speaker 2: when you sleep?
0:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, as much if not more of any other factor.
0:29
Speaker 1: There's also screen usage, light, your pillow, and wearables. But
0:33
Speaker 1: the other thing is we're spending more on sleep, and
0:35
Speaker 1: sleep is getting worse. And for the last 20 years,
0:37
Speaker 1: I've been doing science, coaching, and education that enhances human performance.
0:42
Speaker 1: And I've been fortunate to work with the world's most
0:44
Speaker 1: elite athletes, entrepreneurs, leaders, and even 50% of athletes have
0:48
Speaker 1: a clinical sleep disorder. It gets worse. 70 to 80%
0:51
Speaker 1: of people who have clinical sleep apnea will go undiagnosed.
0:54
Speaker 1: And for women, it's somewhere in the neighborhood of 90
0:57
Speaker 1: to 95%. And it is deleterious to your health because
1:00
Speaker 1: it's highly associated with long-term death risk, cognitive function, mood regulation, performance, recovery,
1:06
Speaker 1: metabolic health. And it happens for a bunch of different reasons.
1:09
Speaker 1: And we can go through them. But we look at
1:10
Speaker 1: the 8 billion person population. We need more people to
1:13
Speaker 1: pay attention to their health. And so I just want
1:15
Speaker 1: to get the best possible out of people. So this
1:17
Speaker 1: could be energy. It could be metabolic. It could be
1:19
Speaker 1: cognitive function. It could be muscle growth or fat loss.
1:22
Speaker 1: And so I want to give every person listening to
1:23
Speaker 1: this the opportunity to reach their goals and dreams.
1:26
Speaker 2: I'd love to go through all of those. And you
1:27
Speaker 2: have a 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 method. What is that?
1:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just a little thing I came up with
1:31
Speaker 1: that says, all right, can we help people with fat loss?
1:33
Speaker 1: So the first thing to think about is.
1:41
Speaker 2: This is super interesting to me. My team gave me
1:43
Speaker 2: this report to show me how many of you that
1:44
Speaker 2: watch this show subscribe. And some of you have told us,
1:47
Speaker 2: according to this, that you are unsubscribed from the channel randomly.
1:50
Speaker 2: So favour to ask all of you, please could you
1:52
Speaker 2: check right now if you've hit the subscribe button, if
1:54
Speaker 2: you are a regular viewer of the show and you
1:56
Speaker 2: like what we do here. We're approaching quite a significant
1:58
Speaker 2: landmark on this show in terms of a subscriber number.
2:01
Speaker 2: So if there was one simple free thing that you
2:03
Speaker 2: could do to help us, my team, everyone here, to
2:06
Speaker 2: keep this show free, to keep it improving year over
2:09
Speaker 2: year and week over week, It is just to hit
2:11
Speaker 2: that subscribe button and to double check if you've hit it.
2:13
Speaker 2: Only thing I'll ever ask of you, do we have
2:15
Speaker 2: a deal? If you do it, I'll tell you what
2:16
Speaker 2: I'll do. I'll make sure every single week, every single month,
2:20
Speaker 2: we fight harder and harder and harder and harder to
2:21
Speaker 2: bring you the guests and conversations that you want to hear.
2:24
Speaker 2: I've stayed true to that promise since the very beginning
2:26
Speaker 2: of the Diary of a CEO, and I will not
2:28
Speaker 2: let you down. Please help us. Really appreciate it. Let's
2:31
Speaker 2: get on with the show.
2:33
Speaker 1: Dr. Andy Galpin.
2:38
Speaker 2: Before we started recording, you said you want to do
2:40
Speaker 2: scientific research, coaching for your clients, and you said education.
2:45
Speaker 2: You also kind of alluded to the fact that you
2:47
Speaker 2: were less interested in money and these kinds of things.
2:50
Speaker 2: So the question is, why do you do what you do?
2:52
Speaker 2: And what is it you're doing and who are you
2:53
Speaker 2: doing it for?
2:54
Speaker 1: The most concise way I can say it is I
2:57
Speaker 1: want to give every person listening to this the opportunity
3:00
Speaker 1: to reach their goals and dreams. You want to look
3:02
Speaker 1: this way or not look this way. And you want
3:04
Speaker 1: to perform this way.
3:06
Speaker 2: How can we get you there?
3:08
Speaker 1: I want to remove those barriers. And if you get
3:10
Speaker 1: there or don't get there, it was because of you.
3:12
Speaker 1: It was not because something was holding you back that
3:14
Speaker 1: was in your way. And so that's why I get
3:17
Speaker 1: equally excited to work with the best linebacker in the
3:21
Speaker 1: NFL and some person who just wants to wake up
3:24
Speaker 1: and not be in back pain tomorrow.
3:26
Speaker 2: So tell me who you've worked with then, who has
3:28
Speaker 2: been a client of yours?
3:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been fortunate to work with the world's most
3:32
Speaker 1: elite athletes for 20 years at this point. So this
3:34
Speaker 1: is your number one draft picks in every major sport,
3:37
Speaker 1: Hall of Famers, Cy Young winners, MVPs, Olympic gold medalists
3:41
Speaker 1: in many sports, world champion fighters. We've worked with hemiplegics
3:46
Speaker 1: and paraplegics individuals. We've worked with, you know, the cliche executives,
3:52
Speaker 1: the mom and pops, the person dealing and struggling with perimenopause.
3:56
Speaker 1: Like we've really done most of it. And what kinds
3:59
Speaker 1: of symptoms or goals do they come to you with?
4:02
Speaker 1: So I'll give you broad categories and specifics below that.
4:04
Speaker 1: Broad categories, we tend to say is either rebuild or upgrade.
4:08
Speaker 1: Rebuild is there's something wrong, hurt, broken, damaged. I'm overweight.
4:14
Speaker 1: I can't fix it. I'm dying from sleep restriction. I
4:17
Speaker 1: have a clinical sleep disorder. I have some injury. I
4:21
Speaker 1: have some huge, clear limitation that needs to be resolved.
4:25
Speaker 1: The second half is what we call upgrade. I don't
4:28
Speaker 1: have any of that. I feel pretty good, feel okay.
4:30
Speaker 1: Now I just want to get the best possible out
4:32
Speaker 1: of my life. So this could be energy. It could
4:34
Speaker 1: be metabolic. It could be cognitive function. Why I can
4:38
Speaker 1: accomplish that and our folks I work with can is
4:40
Speaker 1: because I'm after the physiology.
4:43
Speaker 2: What does you mean by that physiology?
4:45
Speaker 1: It's your biomolecular signature. Do you have a muscle imbalance
4:49
Speaker 1: that's creating neck pain, that's making it hard to sleep,
4:51
Speaker 1: and that's giving you a hard time regulating your emotions.
4:55
Speaker 1: It could be classic things like inflammation, everything that is
4:59
Speaker 1: inside of your body in both the way that it
5:01
Speaker 1: is running and expressing itself.
5:04
Speaker 2: And what are your credentials?
5:06
Speaker 1: So my PhD is in what's called human bioenergetics. I
5:09
Speaker 1: started my lab in 2011. Your lab? So I'm an
5:12
Speaker 1: active scientist. I'm a professor. That's my real job for
5:15
Speaker 1: the most part. So we conduct and disseminate research there
5:18
Speaker 1: that enhances human performance. And then I started a number
5:21
Speaker 1: of companies and privately coach people. That's what I've been
5:25
Speaker 1: doing for over 20 years.
5:27
Speaker 2: We talked about the different personas and the types of
5:29
Speaker 2: problems they come to you with. If you had to,
5:31
Speaker 2: and this might be quite difficult, order them in terms
5:35
Speaker 2: of the frequency in which people come to you with
5:37
Speaker 2: these issues. What would that sort of top five be?
5:41
Speaker 1: I'll break them down. From our professional athletes, and I'll
5:43
Speaker 1: probably spend more time on non-professional athletes, assuming most of
5:46
Speaker 1: your audience is probably not a professional.
5:48
Speaker 2: I wouldn't take that. Pretty close. I wouldn't take that, guys.
5:51
Speaker 3: 50-50?
5:51
Speaker 2: We'll assume 50-50.
5:53
Speaker 1: The athletes typically come to us under two circumstances, frequent
5:58
Speaker 1: injuries I'm getting or tanked energy, bad sleep. They deal
6:01
Speaker 1: with the same human problems we deal with, right? The
6:04
Speaker 1: other one is what we'll just say is the upgrade,
6:06
Speaker 1: the optimizer. Feel great, feel young. I just want to
6:08
Speaker 1: get ahead of things and I want to catch things
6:10
Speaker 1: before they start. The general public is a similar breakdown
6:14
Speaker 1: because we have a lot of people who are like,
6:16
Speaker 1: I do feel pretty good. I'm great, but I don't
6:19
Speaker 1: want to play the game backwards. I don't want problems
6:21
Speaker 1: to come up and then I got to go scrambling
6:23
Speaker 1: and figure it out. So let's collect baseline data now.
6:26
Speaker 1: Let's get ahead of things. Let's predict problems before they arise.
6:30
Speaker 1: But I've only got a few minutes a day, right?
6:32
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to like take over my whole life
6:35
Speaker 1: with all this stuff. Like probably the most common ones
6:37
Speaker 1: are things like sleep and energy. Performance goals can't seem
6:40
Speaker 1: to get stronger. Can't seem to lose that little bit
6:43
Speaker 1: of weight. Maybe a touch of brain fog. I don't
6:46
Speaker 1: feel as sharp.
6:48
Speaker 2: Well, I'd love to go through all of those. Sleep, energy, performance, strength, struggles, weight.
6:52
Speaker 2: But also I've got my blood test results here, which
6:57
Speaker 2: Andy has taken a look at for me. It's not
6:59
Speaker 2: all good. Okay. So that's a pre-warning. It's not all good,
7:01
Speaker 2: but he's going to run me through my blood test
7:03
Speaker 2: results in this episode. Tell me how I improve things.
7:06
Speaker 2: And there was a couple of deficiencies that I had
7:07
Speaker 2: that I had no idea that I had because I
7:10
Speaker 2: thought I was doing everything right. which have completely changed
7:12
Speaker 2: my supplement, but also my behavior generally. And also you've
7:17
Speaker 2: got this here, which is a gentleman, I believe, whose
7:21
Speaker 2: blood test results you did, similar age to me, and
7:24
Speaker 2: you took him from not so good to great. And
7:28
Speaker 2: we'll talk about that as well. So hold on for
7:30
Speaker 2: a second while we touch first on the subject of
7:33
Speaker 2: sleep and energy, which is the first thing you talked about.
7:36
Speaker 2: A lot of people listening struggle with sleep and they also,
7:39
Speaker 2: in their waking life, feel variances in that energy. If
7:44
Speaker 2: we start then with sleep, what are the most people
7:48
Speaker 2: problems of sleep?
7:49
Speaker 1: This is a great question. We'll start off, and in fact,
7:51
Speaker 1: I think this is a nice framing of everything we're
7:53
Speaker 1: going to talk about. We want to be weary of
7:56
Speaker 1: what we call health anxiety. This is over fixation, over concern,
8:01
Speaker 1: worrying too much about little things with your blood work,
8:05
Speaker 1: with your sleep, everything. You're in a really great spot.
8:08
Speaker 1: So we can look for some upgrade, but we want
8:09
Speaker 1: to be careful of pushing that line. Why that also
8:11
Speaker 1: matters is if we look at the 8 billion or
8:15
Speaker 1: so person population, we probably need more people to pay
8:19
Speaker 1: attention to their health than to not pay attention to
8:21
Speaker 1: their health. We're not in an abundance of people caring
8:23
Speaker 1: too much. But if you're listening to this show, you
8:27
Speaker 1: are probably not representative of the general population. And so
8:29
Speaker 1: I want to be really careful of everything I'm about
8:31
Speaker 1: to say for the next couple of hours. I don't
8:34
Speaker 1: want to create health anxiety. I don't want you to
8:36
Speaker 1: be so terrified to touch a receipt that it sends
8:39
Speaker 1: you in a three-day tailspin. Anytime we're talking about a
8:42
Speaker 1: health or performance, we want to run the spectrum of
8:45
Speaker 1: disease to optimization. We should not be playing around with
8:49
Speaker 1: optimization and performance if we're in the presence of a
8:51
Speaker 1: medical disease. And why I say that is sleep is
8:55
Speaker 1: probably the biggest place of clinical disease that exists that
8:59
Speaker 1: no one knows about. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 70%
9:03
Speaker 1: to 80% of people who have clinical sleep apnea will
9:07
Speaker 1: go undiagnosed.
9:09
Speaker 2: Wow.
9:10
Speaker 1: If that existed for a broken bone, right? If that
9:13
Speaker 1: existed for diabetes, you'd be like insane. It gets worse. 50%,
9:18
Speaker 1: depending on which study you look at, of athletes have
9:22
Speaker 1: a clinical sleep disorder. For women, it's somewhere in the
9:26
Speaker 1: neighborhood of 90 to 95% of women that have clinical
9:30
Speaker 1: sleep apnea will go undiagnosed.
9:33
Speaker 2: Why?
9:34
Speaker 1: If you were to look at me and you would say,
9:36
Speaker 1: if I said, Stephen, you think I have apnea? No.
9:39
Speaker 2: No, right?
9:40
Speaker 1: If I were to bring in a whole table of
9:42
Speaker 1: 10 people and I said, pick the person in here
9:45
Speaker 1: least likely to have sleep apnea, you'd find the smallest girl. True.
9:49
Speaker 1: You don't think about apnea as something that can happen
9:52
Speaker 1: unless you're big and fat. Women also are less likely
9:58
Speaker 1: than men to.
9:59
Speaker 2: complain.
10:02
Speaker 1: They're less likely to think about it as an anatomical issue.
10:05
Speaker 1: They're going to charge it to hormones, to their menstrual cycle,
10:10
Speaker 1: to their cognitive load, to the demands that it is
10:13
Speaker 1: to be mom. All these are true, by the way.
10:15
Speaker 1: It is also in the same point true. You could
10:17
Speaker 1: have apnea that has nothing to do with body composition.
10:21
Speaker 2: And let's define apnea for a second.
10:23
Speaker 1: You stop breathing at night.
10:24
Speaker 2: And that wakes you up.
10:26
Speaker 1: Sometimes it doesn't. That's the problem is it won't necessarily
10:29
Speaker 1: wake you up, but it is deleterious to your health.
10:32
Speaker 1: It's highly associated with consequences from long-term death risk to
10:37
Speaker 1: short-term cognitive function, emotion, mood regulation, performance, recovery, metabolic health.
10:43
Speaker 1: It's really, really nasty. In fact, one of the larger
10:46
Speaker 1: things that can go wrong in your health is not
10:48
Speaker 1: breathing at night.
10:49
Speaker 2: This might be a silly question, but does sleep apnea
10:52
Speaker 2: disrupt your sleep?
10:54
Speaker 1: It can.
10:54
Speaker 2: So it doesn't always?
10:55
Speaker 1: Doesn't always.
10:56
Speaker 2: Okay.
10:56
Speaker 1: This is why do you think it's so poorly diagnosed?
11:00
Speaker 1: So the classic giveaways, if you were that person who
11:03
Speaker 1: wakes up four counties because you snore so loud, snoring
11:06
Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily mean you have sleep apnea, but it's a
11:08
Speaker 1: really strong indicator. That's one form of it. So Apnea
11:12
Speaker 1: happens for a bunch of different reasons. More evidence recently
11:16
Speaker 1: has suggested like neck size was this kind of original
11:18
Speaker 1: thing that we say like a big neck is just
11:21
Speaker 1: a problem. It doesn't look like that's as true, but
11:24
Speaker 1: certainly it is true. As you increase obesity rates, you'll
11:29
Speaker 1: see an increase in apnea as well. So what's happening
11:33
Speaker 1: here is now you're talking about, I'll call it anatomical
11:36
Speaker 1: or physical, like something physically is landing on your neck
11:39
Speaker 1: and your tongue and your throat. your larynx and esophagus,
11:42
Speaker 1: and it's stopping your breathing. And why this matters is
11:44
Speaker 1: when you're standing here or sitting here in this chair,
11:47
Speaker 1: you're in this vertical position. And as you go and
11:49
Speaker 1: lay down, anatomy shifts. You also have a lot of
11:54
Speaker 1: research showing that the larger the human being, the more
11:57
Speaker 1: fluid they have, which is pretty normal, right? So a
12:00
Speaker 1: person who's twice your size will have twice the amount
12:02
Speaker 1: of water in their body that you do. Imagine if
12:05
Speaker 1: you had, I mean, we'll take this beverage right here.
12:07
Speaker 1: Why do you have red wine? Well, anyways, we'll come
12:09
Speaker 1: back in case you get thirsty. So you see the
12:13
Speaker 1: water is sitting vertically, right? If I were to shift
12:15
Speaker 1: this cup horizontally, the water would shift and it would
12:18
Speaker 1: balance horizontally to where the gap in the air would
12:21
Speaker 1: be on the top, right? That happens in your body.
12:24
Speaker 1: So imagine this top piece start up here. That's your neck. Now,
12:28
Speaker 1: when you lay down, your neck is over here and
12:30
Speaker 1: I would tip this over, but it would spill everywhere.
12:32
Speaker 1: That fluid then shifts up into your neck. So it's
12:35
Speaker 1: not even necessarily a physical size thing, but it's the
12:38
Speaker 1: fluid associated with being a larger human being that the
12:40
Speaker 1: fluid shift can happen. What we're now finding is a
12:44
Speaker 1: whole series of other types of apnea. Now there are
12:47
Speaker 1: neural causes to it. There are environmental causes. There are
12:52
Speaker 1: positional causes. And so as a classic example to round
12:55
Speaker 1: the story out, traditionally, if you're told you have apnea,
12:59
Speaker 1: you're going to be given one of about three choices.
13:02
Speaker 2: Medication.
13:04
Speaker 1: What's called a CPAP device, right? So that's the big
13:07
Speaker 1: like Darth Vader breathing machine or potentially what's called an
13:12
Speaker 1: oral appliance. It's a mouthpiece that kind of repositions your
13:15
Speaker 1: jaw and neck. I'm for all of those treatments. Why
13:20
Speaker 1: they all have such low success rates is because they're
13:23
Speaker 1: given out generically. You come in, you have apnea, you
13:26
Speaker 1: get the same stuff. Now what the field is moving
13:29
Speaker 1: towards is precision and saying you have this specific type
13:32
Speaker 1: of apnea and an oral appliance won't help here. You
13:35
Speaker 1: actually need this surgical intervention.
13:38
Speaker 2: I was looking at some of the data here and
13:39
Speaker 2: it says that sleep apnea is very common globally, much
13:43
Speaker 2: more common than I expected. It says men who are
13:46
Speaker 2: middle-aged have a 24 to 34% prevalence of apnea. Women,
13:50
Speaker 2: 9 to 17%. Seniors, 30 to 60%. That's right. Postmenopausal women, 25%.
14:04
Speaker 2: So yeah, rough numbers. That means that listening now, if
14:06
Speaker 2: you're a middle-aged man listening, if there's three of you
14:09
Speaker 2: listening right now, one of you statistically might have apnea.
14:13
Speaker 1: Now that's clinical sleep apnea. That doesn't even count subclinical.
14:19
Speaker 2: And if you're a senior listening now, which is 65
14:21
Speaker 2: years older, there's a 30 to 60% chance. Wow.
14:26
Speaker 1: Depending on some numbers you see, Stephen, you'll see a
14:28
Speaker 1: billion people across the globe.
14:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what it says. It says a billion people.
14:33
Speaker 1: Now that's only apnea. That's not insomnia. That's not all
14:36
Speaker 1: the other sleep disorders. That's simply the one variant of it.
14:40
Speaker 2: Why is this happening? Because again, from an evolutionary perspective,
14:44
Speaker 2: sleep apnea couldn't have been a great for survival. Yeah.
14:48
Speaker 1: Three primary reasons why this is happening. The first is
14:51
Speaker 1: the fact that our environment is physically changing. Our ancestors
14:56
Speaker 1: never had to deal with this. Two, our current solutions
15:01
Speaker 1: for testing are either insanely outdated or or incredibly difficult
15:06
Speaker 1: to get to. The third major one is our solutions
15:11
Speaker 1: that we provide people in public communication are wildly generic.
15:15
Speaker 1: That's not helpful. In fact, if you were to pull
15:17
Speaker 1: everyone listening right now, sleep comes up and you go, oh, great.
15:21
Speaker 1: They're going to tell me to sleep in a quiet
15:23
Speaker 1: room that's cold and dark. And they're like, I've heard
15:26
Speaker 1: it all. And you have. Where we need to get
15:28
Speaker 1: to next is how do we help people find these
15:30
Speaker 1: precision solutions based on their type of sleep issues? But
15:33
Speaker 1: that's the three-part reason why this stuff is happening.
15:37
Speaker 2: I'd like to go into all three of them. I
15:38
Speaker 2: also would like to just pause on the diagnosis part
15:40
Speaker 2: because there'll be people listening here that might have a
15:42
Speaker 2: suspicion that they need help. But again, they're going off
15:45
Speaker 2: their feelings. How can they know for sure what help
15:49
Speaker 2: they need and what their problem is?
15:50
Speaker 1: Yeah. I always start with subjective. How do you feel?
15:54
Speaker 1: If you feel good, let's now like immediately take a breath.
15:59
Speaker 1: You have good energy. You wake up. You feel good.
16:01
Speaker 1: Like everyone's going to be a little bit tired. We
16:03
Speaker 1: also don't, we've actually had a, I've been working with
16:06
Speaker 1: for several years, a very close friend of you and I.
16:08
Speaker 1: We constantly have to battle because he'll just get like
16:10
Speaker 1: really honestly terrified because he gets sleepy at the end
16:13
Speaker 1: of the day. And I'm like, bro, that's the point.
16:18
Speaker 1: People that are hard chargers, high performers are actually afraid
16:21
Speaker 1: of being tired. We have to recognize and realize that
16:24
Speaker 1: is natural and needed. You need to feel a little
16:28
Speaker 1: bit sleepy in the early afternoon and you should feel tired, unmotivated,
16:32
Speaker 1: lack of focus at the end of the day.
16:34
Speaker 2: What if I didn't used to? Because that's what people will,
16:37
Speaker 2: they compare it to an old version of themselves.
16:39
Speaker 3: Sure.
16:39
Speaker 1: Again, we can say natural. When you are sub 25,
16:44
Speaker 1: like you're just a powerhouse, right? When you're past 25,
16:50
Speaker 1: we shouldn't just accept frailty. We shouldn't accept a permanent decline,
16:53
Speaker 1: but we do have to start to realize we're not
16:56
Speaker 1: going to have the energy of a 20 year old.
16:58
Speaker 1: Like it's just not typically super realistic. And if you do,
17:03
Speaker 1: you're probably getting there exogenously, right? Stimulants and other things,
17:07
Speaker 1: which have a place, but we just want to be
17:09
Speaker 1: a little bit careful of those things.
17:11
Speaker 2: We'll talk about stimulants, melatonin and all these things, but
17:13
Speaker 2: going back to this point of diagnosis. Yeah. So Jenny,
17:16
Speaker 2: who doesn't have much money, how does she get? Okay, great.
17:19
Speaker 1: So one thing we can do, and we can put
17:20
Speaker 1: these in your show notes for you for free. There
17:22
Speaker 1: are a ton of completely free short questionnaires that are
17:25
Speaker 1: scientifically validated. Okay. You can do these for RLS. You
17:29
Speaker 1: can do them for insomnia. You can do them for apnea.
17:31
Speaker 1: You can do them for circadian. disruptions and disorders. You
17:35
Speaker 1: can do them for chronotype. Are you a morning person
17:38
Speaker 1: or tons? And I'll put in many of these for free.
17:41
Speaker 1: So my answer there would be start with one of those.
17:44
Speaker 1: If you flag that and you want to move up
17:45
Speaker 1: the next step, then you kind of have a couple
17:47
Speaker 1: of different ways. And your two options are what we'll
17:50
Speaker 1: call wearables at home tech. These are typically, we'll call
17:53
Speaker 1: them $ 100 to $ 600 range. Then past that, you have
17:57
Speaker 1: a true medical option, which is a sleep hospital. This
18:02
Speaker 1: is when you would go into... You know, the hospital,
18:04
Speaker 1: you go into that weird room and you sit there,
18:06
Speaker 1: you get all the wires. Someone looks at you through
18:08
Speaker 1: a window. You sleep in for one night. You can
18:10
Speaker 1: see from the look on your face or you're just like,
18:12
Speaker 1: all right, who wants to do that? If you have
18:15
Speaker 1: a true disease at this point, for the most part,
18:18
Speaker 1: the sleep hospital, depending on the disease, it is where
18:22
Speaker 1: you need to get to. Now, what our group is
18:25
Speaker 1: working on and others is, can we bring the sleep
18:28
Speaker 1: hospital into the home? It's not super affordable at this point.
18:32
Speaker 1: We're going to get it there. But that is the
18:34
Speaker 1: clear future. If you have insurance, take that validated questionnaire
18:38
Speaker 1: I just said. Go to your doctor and say, here's
18:40
Speaker 1: what I scored this thing. Will you order me that
18:43
Speaker 1: sleep study? It is a giant pain, I know it,
18:46
Speaker 1: but it is probably worth it. If you want to
18:48
Speaker 1: use the wearable, you can do that. The problem with
18:50
Speaker 1: the wearables is numerous. They are awesome at things like awareness,
18:57
Speaker 1: at accountability. They're pretty good for things like total sleep time.
19:01
Speaker 1: They're really, really bad. And a major pitfall for wearables
19:05
Speaker 1: is predicting things like deep sleep and REM sleep.
19:10
Speaker 2: Do you know what I was thinking about? I was
19:11
Speaker 2: thinking about certain times where I've done certain things behaviorally
19:16
Speaker 2: and then I got in bed, woke up feeling terrible,
19:20
Speaker 2: and my wearable said to me, you had a really
19:24
Speaker 2: bad night's sleep. And I could kind of put two
19:25
Speaker 2: and two together and kind of establish cause and effect.
19:28
Speaker 2: And I could almost, I guess, test that then going
19:30
Speaker 2: forward and say, okay, don't do that, or maybe get
19:33
Speaker 2: in bed earlier, or the heat was way too high,
19:35
Speaker 2: whatever it might be, and I could sort of A-B
19:37
Speaker 2: test my way to a better outcome.
19:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they can give you things like total sleep time,
19:42
Speaker 1: as I said. What you want to be careful of
19:44
Speaker 1: are the aggregate sleep effectiveness score, sleep quality score. That
19:50
Speaker 1: the stuff that directionally won't be there. But you actually
19:52
Speaker 1: said something interesting a second ago, which is you felt worse.
19:56
Speaker 1: That's the only directional thing we need to have to
19:58
Speaker 1: pay attention to. If you go, wow, I felt worse today.
20:02
Speaker 1: And then you can go backwards and go, yeah, that's
20:04
Speaker 1: because I did A, B, and C yesterday, or I
20:06
Speaker 1: felt better today. That's not the only metric. And to
20:09
Speaker 1: be really clear, I'm not advocating to ditch all the wearables.
20:12
Speaker 1: We use them extensively. It's just really being careful about
20:17
Speaker 1: what data from those we pay attention to and what
20:19
Speaker 1: we don't. So stuff that we do now is find
20:22
Speaker 1: big themes that they're oftentimes missing. Here's a good example.
20:27
Speaker 1: We had 1200 days of data from, I think it
20:30
Speaker 1: was an aura ring. And we are actually able to
20:32
Speaker 1: find that in one of our clients for every one
20:37
Speaker 1: drop and resting heart rate, So his resting heart rate, say,
20:40
Speaker 1: went from 65 beats per minute to 64. He got
20:44
Speaker 1: six more minutes of sleep. And so we were like, okay, great.
20:48
Speaker 1: You want to add an hour to your sleep. Let's
20:50
Speaker 1: continue to work on your cardiovascular fitness. Every time he
20:54
Speaker 1: got more fit, his resting heart rate dropped. He slept more. Additionally,
20:57
Speaker 1: every time you put and you invest in down regulation,
21:01
Speaker 1: you'll lower your resting heart rate going into bed. You
21:04
Speaker 1: will sleep longer. So he was a classic case of like,
21:07
Speaker 1: I try to go to bed, I do all the things,
21:08
Speaker 1: but I just can't stay in bed. So the key
21:10
Speaker 1: there to get him the more sleep is to put
21:12
Speaker 1: his physiology in a position that would allow him to
21:14
Speaker 1: have more sleep. And for him, like that was the
21:16
Speaker 1: canary in the coal mine. So that's the type of
21:18
Speaker 1: stuff where wearables can be like, you can't replace that.
21:21
Speaker 1: Not only from a data, but from a coaching perspective,
21:26
Speaker 1: it was so easy for me to communicate to him.
21:28
Speaker 1: Here's your data. This is our target. And he's an
21:32
Speaker 1: extraordinarily busy person. It's like, great, I got one thing
21:35
Speaker 1: to pay attention to. Do whatever it takes to keep
21:37
Speaker 1: that heart rate low going into bed. Copy that.
21:40
Speaker 2: What in his case was making his heart rate high?
21:42
Speaker 1: When it comes to something like sleep, anything that is
21:45
Speaker 1: in your physical environment, that's in your lifestyle, that's in
21:48
Speaker 1: your physiology can impact it. I mentioned earlier, one of
21:51
Speaker 1: the reasons why sleep is getting worse is because these
21:53
Speaker 1: physical changes in our environment. Annual spend on sleep is
21:56
Speaker 1: like 600 billion right now. But yet we have seen
22:00
Speaker 1: a 60 minute drop in total sleep time over the
22:02
Speaker 1: last 60 years. So you're seeing an inverse. We're spending
22:06
Speaker 1: more on sleep and sleep is getting worse. I think
22:09
Speaker 1: your team printed out some cards here and we can
22:11
Speaker 1: go through them. The first one is a really good one.
22:14
Speaker 1: The world is physically brighter. In fact, there's data from NASA,
22:17
Speaker 1: satellite data that can look and say, the world is
22:19
Speaker 1: physically brighter now. You're expected to be communicating with Singapore
22:22
Speaker 1: and Australia and the US, which means you're going to
22:26
Speaker 1: be up later. Your business is going to be on,
22:28
Speaker 1: your lights are going to be on. There's also a
22:30
Speaker 1: phenomenon called sky glow. Where the light from Earth is
22:33
Speaker 1: going up, hitting the clouds and being shot back down.
22:36
Speaker 1: And so it's keeping our world brighter. So when you
22:38
Speaker 1: hear people talk about things like you got to have
22:41
Speaker 1: these blackout curtains and masks and you're thinking like, I
22:45
Speaker 1: never did that when I was a kid. Like, what's
22:47
Speaker 1: the big deal? It's because of this.
22:49
Speaker 2: I mean, there's some graphs that I found here. Yeah, yeah.
22:52
Speaker 2: Which kind of demonstrate this, which I'll put up on
22:54
Speaker 2: the screen.
22:54
Speaker 1: Yeah. More people are moving into urban environments. And if
22:57
Speaker 1: you look at some of the studies, not to be dramatic,
22:58
Speaker 1: but some of the studies have found things as high
23:00
Speaker 1: as like anxiety and depression are up 20 plus percent
23:03
Speaker 1: when you move into the city. And that's largely attributed
23:06
Speaker 1: to things like light and sound. It's extremely bright and
23:10
Speaker 1: extremely loud in cities. It doesn't mean they're bad or
23:13
Speaker 1: you can't live in them. It just simply means that's
23:16
Speaker 1: why you have to take extra steps.
23:18
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people listening to this will think, well, Andy,
23:20
Speaker 2: my bedroom's very dark.
23:22
Speaker 3: Great.
23:22
Speaker 2: But that's actually not what you're saying, is it? Yeah.
23:25
Speaker 2: The way I was thinking about it is we are
23:26
Speaker 2: here in New York City now. And if I walked
23:29
Speaker 2: to the shop last night at 10 p.m. and walked back,
23:34
Speaker 2: I was exposed to so much light outside at a
23:37
Speaker 2: critical time when my body should be not exposed to
23:40
Speaker 2: light so that it's going to impact me even when
23:42
Speaker 2: I get into that dark room.
23:43
Speaker 1: It goes even better than that. There's evidence now that
23:45
Speaker 1: the light exposure you have both in the morning and
23:47
Speaker 1: throughout the day dramatically counteracts what you just mentioned.
23:52
Speaker 2: So, yes.
23:53
Speaker 1: You went for that walk. You went for that thing
23:56
Speaker 1: when light was still out and you had a brighter
23:57
Speaker 1: light exposure and we'll just call it the three or
24:00
Speaker 1: four hours before bed than you would have had ever
24:01
Speaker 1: in the past. But you can mitigate that damage by
24:06
Speaker 1: seeing light appropriately during the day and in the morning. Oh, okay.
24:11
Speaker 1: And this is actually something my friend Andrew Huberman has
24:15
Speaker 1: talked about for years now. And I'm like, oh, he's
24:17
Speaker 1: joked and laughed at him. But then I'm like, damn,
24:19
Speaker 1: he nailed this. Like he was way ahead in this one.
24:21
Speaker 1: Light exposure in the morning. will impact your sleep at
24:25
Speaker 1: night the next day. He always explains it as setting
24:28
Speaker 1: your circadian rhythm, but it's more than that, actually. That's
24:30
Speaker 1: the part where I was like, yeah, whatever. I'm in
24:32
Speaker 1: the same time zone, what do I care? But now
24:34
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, because then if you were exposed to
24:37
Speaker 1: a high amount of light later in the day, that
24:40
Speaker 1: exposure to light earlier will help reduce that damage. There's
24:44
Speaker 1: this whole cascade of things that influence when it is
24:47
Speaker 1: time to be awake and when it is time to
24:49
Speaker 1: go to sleep. And this is both hormonal-based as well
24:53
Speaker 1: as So your brain will shut down or activate in
24:58
Speaker 1: response to light, in response to exercise, in response to arousal,
25:02
Speaker 1: in response to food, in response to stimulants, and a
25:04
Speaker 1: whole host of other things. That light earlier in the
25:07
Speaker 1: day sets that rhythm.
25:08
Speaker 2: Okay. So it's like starting the … It starts the clock.
25:11
Speaker 1: Okay. It starts the sleep pressure. This is the graph
25:14
Speaker 1: of rural versus urban plot. And so, yeah, I mean,
25:17
Speaker 1: you can see that pretty clearly. The red line here
25:19
Speaker 1: is the noise in a rural environment, and this is
25:22
Speaker 1: the noise … here the typical number you want to
25:25
Speaker 1: see um for sound at night is like 35 decibels
25:30
Speaker 1: right so if you see the rural environment you're cruising
25:32
Speaker 1: about that and you see the urban environment you're looking
25:34
Speaker 1: in the 60 to 7 as a baseline and it
25:36
Speaker 1: really matters sound when you sleep tons really yeah as
25:39
Speaker 1: much if not more of any other factor that the
25:41
Speaker 1: big thing with sound is inconsistency a lot of people
25:44
Speaker 1: will do things like put a sound machine in the
25:45
Speaker 1: room most people put them too loud because of that
25:49
Speaker 1: thing so you put them all pretty common default is
25:51
Speaker 1: like 40 to 50 decibels For a sound machine, more
25:54
Speaker 1: of the data suggests sub 40, especially for kids. If
25:58
Speaker 1: you're using a sound machine for your children, most people
26:01
Speaker 1: put them too close and too loud.
26:02
Speaker 2: What's a sound machine?
26:04
Speaker 1: Just a little device that makes a white noise. And
26:06
Speaker 1: what that does is it cancels out a bunch of
26:09
Speaker 1: low level inconsistent sounds.
26:11
Speaker 2: Oh, okay.
26:11
Speaker 1: So the dog getting up, the window creaking, the car
26:16
Speaker 1: driving by. And so it can kind of cancel that
26:17
Speaker 1: noise level out.
26:18
Speaker 2: How come I can have like a great night's sleep
26:20
Speaker 2: listening to a podcast falling asleep? Whereas my partner can't,
26:25
Speaker 2: she needs silence. And I almost feel like I need
26:27
Speaker 2: to listen to something to fall asleep.
26:29
Speaker 1: Most likely you would do better if you didn't do that. Really?
26:31
Speaker 2: Yeah.
26:32
Speaker 1: You turn them off before you go to sleep, right?
26:33
Speaker 3: No.
26:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay.
26:35
Speaker 1: That will never lead to your best sleep.
26:37
Speaker 2: Okay.
26:38
Speaker 1: What happens is you get to bed and something is
26:41
Speaker 1: happening cognitively. And you're like, I need something to switch
26:44
Speaker 1: me off.
26:44
Speaker 2: To distract me.
26:46
Speaker 3: Yeah.
26:47
Speaker 1: Great. If we took that away from you, you might
26:50
Speaker 1: sleep worse. Because you're going to sit there and struggle
26:53
Speaker 1: through that moment. If you wanted to go from upgrade,
26:56
Speaker 1: we would say, okay, let's figure out what is actually
26:58
Speaker 1: a way for you to downregulate cognitively. Give you that
27:02
Speaker 1: same thing that won't then disrupt your sleep throughout the night.
27:05
Speaker 2: Have you dealt with people in that situation before?
27:07
Speaker 1: Super common. Podcasts are incredibly common one with that. TV, books.
27:11
Speaker 1: My philosophy is let's step back and solve causes. Let's
27:16
Speaker 1: solve constraints rather than mask them. You've got to, host
27:20
Speaker 1: of different supplements over here. Everything you see in this
27:23
Speaker 1: table has moderate to strong scientific evidence that it will
27:27
Speaker 1: help us sleep.
27:28
Speaker 2: What are those things?
27:29
Speaker 1: So lovely, delicious looking tart cherry juice. And I'll go
27:33
Speaker 1: through why that is there. You've got some chamomile tea.
27:35
Speaker 1: You would see this in the supplement form of apigenin.
27:38
Speaker 1: It's a really common way of that. It's kind of
27:40
Speaker 1: like distilled chamomile. Look at these lovely kiwis. What's funny
27:45
Speaker 1: here is this is actually what happens in research. They
27:47
Speaker 1: will give people two to three kiwis that will eat
27:49
Speaker 1: them right before bed. And you will very routinely see
27:52
Speaker 1: people sleeping better after ingestion of kiwis. Other things that
27:58
Speaker 1: are high on the evidence-based list are, of course, magnesium
28:01
Speaker 1: and various forms. More of the research now on magnesium
28:06
Speaker 1: for sleep is turning to a particular form called magnesium
28:08
Speaker 1: bisglycinate rather than threonate. That's up there as well. You
28:14
Speaker 1: will also see things like omega-3. This is your common
28:17
Speaker 1: fish oil. Oh, this is actually interesting because this popped
28:19
Speaker 1: up on your labs as something we have to work on.
28:23
Speaker 2: Oh, my test.
28:24
Speaker 1: Yeah. We'll come back to that in a second.
28:25
Speaker 2: Okay.
28:26
Speaker 1: And then, of course, you've got melatonin, right? The issue
28:30
Speaker 1: with all these is the same that you have with
28:32
Speaker 1: your podcast. These are doing the exact same thing. So
28:37
Speaker 1: one thing we could do is say, this is the podcast,
28:40
Speaker 1: and let's go with one or multiple of these options
28:42
Speaker 1: because they're doing the same thing. They're a cognitive turnoff.
28:44
Speaker 1: Apigen and our chamomile specifically will play that role. It
28:48
Speaker 1: is a reasonable switch that says frontal cortex turn off.
28:53
Speaker 1: And so you're getting there through the podcast where you
28:55
Speaker 1: could get through food or supplements if you'd like as well.
28:59
Speaker 2: Kiwis. Kiwis have scientific evidence that they improve sleep for
29:04
Speaker 2: some people.
29:05
Speaker 1: It's really common. There's like levels to this. You probably
29:07
Speaker 1: like level one, two, and three. Level one being things like,
29:10
Speaker 1: actually surprising enough, magnesium, chamomile, melatonin, of course, lots of
29:16
Speaker 1: randomized control trials.
29:17
Speaker 2: Level one being the best of the best. The best,
29:20
Speaker 2: highest quality. And you'd say, what, magnesium, kiwis?
29:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, kiwis would probably be like a level two or
29:25
Speaker 1: level three. So there's been good studies on them, enough
29:28
Speaker 1: to put them on this table, enough to say there's
29:31
Speaker 1: data there. So you're getting some product below it, in
29:33
Speaker 1: this case, apigenin, in this case, other phytochemicals that either
29:39
Speaker 1: reduce a little bit of cognitive function, they reduce arousal,
29:42
Speaker 1: they put you in some sort of checkout state.
29:45
Speaker 2: And then there's this one over here, melatonin, that a
29:47
Speaker 2: lot of people are aware of. Strong. What level is melatonin?
29:52
Speaker 1: So melatonin probably has more evidence than the rest of
29:54
Speaker 1: these things combined because it's a medicine. It's a drug.
29:57
Speaker 1: There's a ton of research on it. from children to
30:00
Speaker 1: aging to bone health and tons of other stuff, right?
30:03
Speaker 1: It's a hormone. You're going to be able to move
30:06
Speaker 1: some units with this one. Nobody is going to be
30:09
Speaker 1: super concerned about risk factor profiles with eating two Kiwis.
30:13
Speaker 1: You start getting to the level of something like a
30:15
Speaker 1: melatonin and now you have to have real conversations about
30:18
Speaker 1: risk versus benefits. We typically don't use melatonin at the
30:23
Speaker 1: dosage that's normal. So a common dosage for melatonin is
30:26
Speaker 1: like five milligrams, sometimes even up to 10.
30:28
Speaker 2: Wow.
30:29
Speaker 1: We will typically use like 0.3, maybe 0.5. So about
30:32
Speaker 1: a 10th that dose. A lot of times we're trying
30:34
Speaker 1: to find like one milligrams, cut them in half, kind
30:36
Speaker 1: of things like that. The only real reason we use
30:40
Speaker 1: melatonin outside of some fringe cases is when we actually
30:43
Speaker 1: legitimately need to reset circadian rhythm, travel, jet lag, things
30:49
Speaker 1: like that. And it is effective and it is useful there.
30:52
Speaker 1: It is safe in small doses where people mistake melatonin
30:56
Speaker 1: is I use it every night to go to sleep.
30:58
Speaker 1: and or, I wake up in the middle of the night,
31:00
Speaker 1: can't go back to sleep, I go grab a melatonin.
31:03
Speaker 2: Why is that bad?
31:04
Speaker 1: It doesn't work.
31:05
Speaker 2: It doesn't work?
31:05
Speaker 1: No, because the thing that melatonin is supposed to do
31:09
Speaker 1: is realign circadian rhythm. If you're in the middle of
31:11
Speaker 1: the night, you're already in that rhythm. It's not going
31:14
Speaker 1: to do anything. You would in fact, not to, I
31:15
Speaker 1: don't want people to do this, but you would actually
31:17
Speaker 1: be better reaching for something like a chamomile perhaps, because
31:20
Speaker 1: if you're having a hard time getting back to sleep cognitively,
31:23
Speaker 1: this is not going to do it. The other issue
31:26
Speaker 1: is We've done a lot of morning urine testing. There's
31:30
Speaker 1: enough studies that look at the dosage that's actually in
31:33
Speaker 1: the pill versus what's on the label. And they can
31:35
Speaker 1: be up to 100x higher.
31:39
Speaker 2: 100x.
31:40
Speaker 1: And we see this in morning urine. We have seen
31:42
Speaker 1: people who are consistently tired. Their sleep doesn't look horrible.
31:47
Speaker 1: They're doing all the right things.
31:48
Speaker 2: It's cold.
31:48
Speaker 1: It's dark. They're meditating. They're doing all this stuff. They're
31:52
Speaker 1: popping in even a moderate dose of melatonin. And the
31:54
Speaker 1: amount of melatonin The next day in their urine is
31:58
Speaker 1: a hundred X, the upper end of the reference range,
32:01
Speaker 1: which means they're spending the rest of their next day
32:05
Speaker 1: in a hyper dose melatonin state. So they have to
32:08
Speaker 1: live then on stimulants to get back.
32:10
Speaker 2: How would they feel?
32:11
Speaker 1: Horrible.
32:12
Speaker 2: They would feel sluggish.
32:13
Speaker 1: You wake up the next day and you're like, man,
32:16
Speaker 1: it's what we call sleep inertia. You're wildly groggy. You
32:19
Speaker 1: can't get out of bed or you're just getting throughout
32:21
Speaker 1: the day. This is a like, don't talk to me
32:23
Speaker 1: until I've had my coffee. kind of response right this
32:26
Speaker 1: is not a normal waking physiology.
32:29
Speaker 2: That you should be going through presumably that's just melatonin
32:33
Speaker 2: from sort of cheap sources that haven't been tested.
32:37
Speaker 1: That's going to knock off a huge part of your
32:38
Speaker 1: problem right only this is why we'll always say you
32:41
Speaker 1: don't no one needs supplements like no essential person needs
32:44
Speaker 1: to have any supplement to live a great happy healthy
32:46
Speaker 1: life if you choose to use supplements though just buy
32:51
Speaker 1: them from third-party tested transparent companies that place their testing
32:56
Speaker 1: on their websites that give you open access to it
32:59
Speaker 1: for these exact reasons. Vitamin D has a similar profile
33:02
Speaker 1: of inaccuracy. The other issue with that then simply, let's
33:05
Speaker 1: say you're buying it from a high quality source, you're
33:07
Speaker 1: dosing it too much and you're taking it too late.
33:10
Speaker 1: So take it earlier than you think before bed so
33:13
Speaker 1: that your body has a chance to break it down
33:15
Speaker 1: before the next morning.
33:16
Speaker 2: What kind of time and how quickly acting is it?
33:19
Speaker 1: It's person to person dependent, but a lot of times
33:21
Speaker 1: you'll see things like an hour before Some people will
33:24
Speaker 1: feel a response in 10 to 15 minutes. Some people
33:27
Speaker 1: will feel it closer to an hour, but that's a
33:29
Speaker 1: pretty good window.
33:29
Speaker 2: Hang on. If it's 2 a.m. in the morning and
33:31
Speaker 2: you're getting in bed, don't take it.
33:33
Speaker 1: Don't take it at all.
33:34
Speaker 2: Okay.
33:34
Speaker 1: We're going to use this in very specific situations and
33:37
Speaker 1: then we're coming off of it. This should not be
33:39
Speaker 1: a part of your nightly routine most of the time.
33:41
Speaker 2: What exactly is going on in my brain when I
33:43
Speaker 2: take melatonin? Because a lot of people take it and
33:45
Speaker 2: we know that it makes us feel tired, but understanding
33:47
Speaker 2: the mechanism, I think, will help us understand the application.
33:50
Speaker 1: So it actually doesn't really make you feel tired. That's
33:52
Speaker 1: part of the issue. Oh. The mechanism is a circadian shift.
33:55
Speaker 1: So it's telling your endogenous system that this is nighttime.
33:58
Speaker 1: So it doesn't hit you with like a, oh, my
34:00
Speaker 1: eyes are there. This hits you with a shift in cortisol.
34:04
Speaker 1: This hits you with a shift and a whole cascade
34:07
Speaker 1: of epinephrine, norepinephrine, serotonin that are moving around and saying,
34:11
Speaker 1: this is a milieu that you need to be in.
34:13
Speaker 1: That is consistent with a sleep pattern.
34:15
Speaker 2: Okay. So I take it and then it regulates my
34:17
Speaker 2: other hormones, which would be getting in the way of
34:20
Speaker 2: me feeling tired. Yeah.
34:22
Speaker 1: That's probably more appropriate to what it does.
34:24
Speaker 2: Okay. Cause yeah, I've taken it a couple of times again,
34:27
Speaker 2: always for jet lag issues. And within about 30, 45 minutes,
34:30
Speaker 2: I feel a bit drowsy and then I found my
34:32
Speaker 2: eyes going shutting and I'm off. Great.
34:35
Speaker 1: And then you get out of those, that two or
34:36
Speaker 1: three day window. Hmm. put it back away and you're
34:39
Speaker 1: off and going. That's a good use case for it.
34:41
Speaker 1: The mistake is when this is like, I can't go
34:44
Speaker 1: to bed without.
34:45
Speaker 2: I'm generally scared of all these things because honestly, anything
34:48
Speaker 2: that's effective, I'm more scared of. And so it's really effective,
34:52
Speaker 2: which makes me hesitant to use it frequently. Yeah.
34:55
Speaker 1: It's a good default position to be in.
34:57
Speaker 2: It's a good strategy. Yeah. Because one of the things
34:59
Speaker 2: you learn from doing a podcast like this is you
35:00
Speaker 2: just learn that everything has a trade-off.
35:02
Speaker 1: Always.
35:03
Speaker 2: And again, this might not be logically sound, but I
35:05
Speaker 2: assume that the bigger the upside, the bigger the trade
35:08
Speaker 2: I'm making on the other side as a general rule.
35:10
Speaker 2: So do you know the only thing that I've still
35:12
Speaker 2: not been able to, I guess, understand the full trade-off
35:14
Speaker 2: of is coffee? Mm-hmm. Because the upside is so significant.
35:19
Speaker 2: No one can articulate to me the downside other than
35:22
Speaker 2: they say if you have it after midday, it's going
35:24
Speaker 2: to impact your sleep. But I'm like, come on, there's
35:26
Speaker 2: got to be.
35:27
Speaker 1: The phrase that I'll say in my class all the
35:29
Speaker 1: time is there's no free passes in physiology. Mm-hmm. With
35:32
Speaker 1: coffee specifically, actually, we have a meta-analysis led by my colleague, Dr.
35:37
Speaker 1: Ben House, puts it together. But if you look at
35:40
Speaker 1: the research on caffeine and sleep, it's very interesting because
35:43
Speaker 1: if you go through sleep deprivation, your physical and cognitive
35:48
Speaker 1: performance goes down. No surprise there. Coffee can offset that.
35:52
Speaker 1: Caffeine specifically is the thing. But what it doesn't do,
35:57
Speaker 1: at least the data and the meta-analysis suggests is, It
36:00
Speaker 1: doesn't actually put you back into the augmented spot. Meaning
36:03
Speaker 1: if you, did you sleep great last night?
36:06
Speaker 2: I think so. Yeah. Okay.
36:07
Speaker 1: Let's just say you're there. If we took you out
36:10
Speaker 1: and we had you throw that medicine ball and we
36:13
Speaker 1: did a grip strength tester and we did some sprints
36:15
Speaker 1: up and down or whatever you want to do, you
36:17
Speaker 1: would perform well. And then if we gave you caffeine,
36:20
Speaker 1: you'd perform better. It's why we call it ergogenic aid.
36:22
Speaker 1: It's a performance enhancer. Caffeine is really effective primarily at
36:25
Speaker 1: endurance based events, but it is a stimulatory thing that
36:29
Speaker 1: people will use. So let's just say you have normal
36:32
Speaker 1: baseline performance, then caffeine augments that performance. If you go
36:35
Speaker 1: into sleep debt, the sleep itself will reduce your performance.
36:40
Speaker 1: And the coffee can bring you back to normal. But
36:43
Speaker 1: it won't bring you back to that augmented state that
36:45
Speaker 1: you had when you were rested and caffeinated. This is
36:48
Speaker 1: important because a lot of people will be like, ah,
36:51
Speaker 1: I'll throw away the sleep or I won't worry about
36:53
Speaker 1: it as much because I'll just take more stimulus tomorrow.
36:56
Speaker 1: And I feel great. You will feel as good, but
36:58
Speaker 1: you will not perform as well. So what you need
37:00
Speaker 1: to perform at your best, if you're a caffeine user,
37:04
Speaker 1: is to be both well-rested and then caffeinated. Another thing
37:07
Speaker 1: you want to pay attention to in your sleep environment,
37:10
Speaker 1: labeled ergonomics here, is your pillow, your bed, your mattress.
37:14
Speaker 1: This is mostly based on feel.
37:18
Speaker 2: Is there any no-goes in this regard? Not really. Not really. Okay.
37:21
Speaker 1: No, unless let's say you have a sleeping partner and
37:24
Speaker 1: you're sleeping in a bed that is too small and
37:25
Speaker 1: that results in you hitting each other or touching each other.
37:27
Speaker 1: And you don't like that. So other than those, the
37:30
Speaker 1: framework themselves, there's really no, nothing to be concerned with.
37:34
Speaker 2: What about these like eight sleep beds?
37:36
Speaker 1: Eight sleep is fantastic. So eight sleep is not a bed.
37:38
Speaker 1: It's a cover which regulates temperature. If you are in
37:42
Speaker 1: a bedding situation where you're getting hot, then that's a problem.
37:47
Speaker 1: So if then an eight sleep will help you regulate
37:49
Speaker 1: that temperature, it's a great solution. If you're not in
37:51
Speaker 1: that situation, then you're going to be just fine. So
37:55
Speaker 1: temperature regulation is a really big deal. And you'll quite
37:58
Speaker 1: often see people that do that, whether that's getting a
38:01
Speaker 1: product like that, or it's getting a sheet that's cooler
38:04
Speaker 1: or a mattress that is better with ventilation, then you'll
38:07
Speaker 1: oftentimes see them sleep a little bit better. Next on
38:10
Speaker 1: our list is screen usage. Everyone has been told, and
38:14
Speaker 1: you know, perhaps nothing's more destructive to your sleep than
38:16
Speaker 1: your screen. What's more interesting here is the stuff that
38:18
Speaker 1: people generally don't talk about. It's not the fact that
38:22
Speaker 1: necessarily screen usage is shooting your face with a bunch
38:25
Speaker 1: of blue light. What's more dangerous about your screen is
38:30
Speaker 1: the arousal associated with the search for novelty.
38:33
Speaker 2: The search for novelty. What does that mean?
38:36
Speaker 1: You're engaging in a podcast, social media, a game. It
38:42
Speaker 1: is puzzle driven. It is solution. It is interest. It
38:45
Speaker 1: is engagement. It is search for the next. That's the
38:49
Speaker 1: stuff that more likely than not cause sleep disturbances. In
38:54
Speaker 1: the studies that have looked at things like TV time
38:58
Speaker 1: versus tablet versus phone versus reading, those all can be
39:02
Speaker 1: equally dangerous to sleep. Here is the example. I am
39:06
Speaker 1: a TV before bed guy, a giant TV with a
39:10
Speaker 1: blast of blue light. I sleep great with that. My
39:14
Speaker 1: wife really struggles with light before bed. She will read,
39:18
Speaker 1: and yet she chooses to read things that I don't
39:21
Speaker 1: think she should be reading before night, and then she'll
39:23
Speaker 1: wake up because of the topics that she's reading. Where
39:26
Speaker 1: I'm watching things on TV that are you know, documentaries
39:29
Speaker 1: on Ulysses Grant or something. And you're just like, that
39:31
Speaker 1: is the least engaging thing ever. So it's not the
39:34
Speaker 1: fact that the light is there. I use that stuff
39:37
Speaker 1: much like you use your podcast, which is my entire
39:39
Speaker 1: day is so driven by somebody wanting my attention and time.
39:44
Speaker 1: I have to have something that gives me a cognitive
39:45
Speaker 1: switch that says you get to turn off.
39:47
Speaker 2: I wanted to add something to this, which I've been
39:49
Speaker 2: thinking about this week. So in Meta, Meta own Instagram
39:53
Speaker 2: and Facebook and WhatsApp, et cetera. In Meta's earnings call
39:57
Speaker 2: this week, Mark Zuckerberg talked about how they changed the
40:00
Speaker 2: recommendation algorithm on social media apps using AI. And this
40:04
Speaker 2: was something that we've always forecasted would happen. And we've
40:06
Speaker 2: been thinking about the creator economy and how it impacted,
40:08
Speaker 2: but specifically for people listening, what essentially he said is
40:11
Speaker 2: every time you post something on Instagram, whether it's a
40:14
Speaker 2: real or a normal post, They now feed it to
40:17
Speaker 2: a large language model, an AI, and the AI effectively,
40:20
Speaker 2: and again, I'm summarizing here, watches it and it can
40:23
Speaker 2: now understand the full context of what it's watching. So
40:26
Speaker 2: if it's watching a clip of you and me right now,
40:28
Speaker 2: it'll understand that that is Andy Galpin. He's holding a card.
40:31
Speaker 2: He's wearing a black t-shirt. He'll look at the transcript,
40:34
Speaker 2: he'll know what you said. And this is all pertinent
40:36
Speaker 2: because it then can, without in the past needing to
40:41
Speaker 2: look at the caption and the hashtags, it can then
40:45
Speaker 2: decide with way more context than ever before, who exactly
40:49
Speaker 2: would want to see that. And the net impact of
40:52
Speaker 2: that for the user of Instagram or these other social
40:54
Speaker 2: media apps or TikTok, whatever it is, is you're going
40:57
Speaker 2: to be more retained now than ever before. And as
40:59
Speaker 2: you were talking about that, I thought, I wonder if
41:00
Speaker 2: they think about timing of day. Like, I wonder if
41:03
Speaker 2: they think at 11pm, there's a certain thing that's going
41:08
Speaker 2: to keep Andy scrolling versus something at 9am when you're
41:12
Speaker 2: off to work. And of course they do. And you know,
41:16
Speaker 2: they were talking about on the earnings call, Mark was
41:18
Speaker 2: saying how it's increased retention by I think 15 basis points.
41:23
Speaker 2: And there's this quote where he said, there are already
41:25
Speaker 2: two large sets of content to draw from. First, from
41:28
Speaker 2: your friends and people you follow. And second, from creators
41:31
Speaker 2: that you don't follow. But now, There's going to be
41:34
Speaker 2: a whole new and nearly infinite universe of personalized content,
41:39
Speaker 2: which from the eye and felt what they're saying is
41:42
Speaker 2: with their new large language model called Muse is we're
41:44
Speaker 2: actually going to make new content to show Andy Galpin
41:48
Speaker 2: that no one made, no humans made. We're going to
41:50
Speaker 2: make stuff that we know Andy will like. And so
41:54
Speaker 2: I say all this to say that in this sleep conversation,
41:56
Speaker 2: we've been talking about it as creators. We've been saying, basically,
41:58
Speaker 2: it's going to get really difficult if you're a creator,
41:59
Speaker 2: because now if you have a million followers, it doesn't matter.
42:01
Speaker 3: No.
42:02
Speaker 2: If Jenny has zero followers, but she makes something that
42:04
Speaker 2: is contextually more interesting than the million follower guy, Jenny's
42:07
Speaker 2: thing's going to be seen to everyone. But actually now,
42:09
Speaker 2: you're going to be competing with an AI that's going
42:11
Speaker 2: to be churning out super personalized Andy Galpin content. Like,
42:16
Speaker 2: that just Andy would just love at 11 p.m. I
42:19
Speaker 2: said to my team this week, I was like, just
42:20
Speaker 2: take care of yourself. Do you know what I mean? Like,
42:23
Speaker 2: just be aware, you know, when you open your phone,
42:26
Speaker 2: that the AI is doing everything it can to retain you.
42:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean... just don't be on your phone. We've
42:33
Speaker 1: been making this argument for years, but geez, you got
42:36
Speaker 1: every disadvantage possible coming in your way. And look, we're
42:40
Speaker 1: all human. I think I remember last time I was here,
42:45
Speaker 1: you were talking about how like you wake up and
42:47
Speaker 1: your phone's right there, but your fiance like doesn't touch
42:50
Speaker 1: your phone for the first hour of the day or something.
42:51
Speaker 1: It's just like on the charger until noon or something.
42:54
Speaker 1: You're just like, what? I'm more like you, right? I'm like,
42:56
Speaker 1: my phone is in my room. It's not three rooms.
42:58
Speaker 1: Like I'm just not doing any of that stuff, right?
43:00
Speaker 1: And we started this entire piece by saying the environment
43:03
Speaker 1: you're in is just different than it's ever been before.
43:05
Speaker 1: And it's not getting any better. And at some point
43:08
Speaker 1: you have to make that decision of, do you care
43:13
Speaker 1: about your own health? Do you care about the thing
43:17
Speaker 1: the next day that you didn't do well? And do
43:20
Speaker 1: you care more about that than you cared about that
43:23
Speaker 1: next reel?
43:23
Speaker 2: What is it that's causing us to understand everything you
43:26
Speaker 2: just said, but to ignore it and to pick up
43:28
Speaker 2: our phone anyway?
43:30
Speaker 1: You are hard driven the entire biology of our species
43:34
Speaker 1: to search for novelty. In fact, I look at this
43:38
Speaker 1: from the lens of sports. Why do you care about
43:42
Speaker 1: high achievement? Why do I care about performance? There has
43:45
Speaker 1: direct translation. When someone breaks a barrier, we all benefit
43:51
Speaker 1: from that. And I could give you direct examples of this,
43:54
Speaker 1: but we have every story that You want to go
43:58
Speaker 1: to Joseph Campbell, Hero's Journey, right? You want to go
44:00
Speaker 1: back to Hercules, the story of the marathon. Like you
44:03
Speaker 1: pull any story from history out and what are you
44:05
Speaker 1: actually looking at? You're looking at somebody did something that
44:09
Speaker 1: no one has ever done before. You care more about
44:11
Speaker 1: records than you do regular wins and losses. Why? Because
44:17
Speaker 1: they're novel. Why are you more interested in watching Messi
44:23
Speaker 1: break that record than you are the other team winning
44:28
Speaker 1: in the exact same shot. It's because you saw something.
44:32
Speaker 1: You got to be there when someone did something for
44:34
Speaker 1: the first time in human history. I get more of
44:36
Speaker 1: a dopamine hit from the novelty, from the new thing.
44:38
Speaker 1: It's more than the dopamine hit, though. It's a sense
44:40
Speaker 1: of purpose. Your life mattered because you got to be
44:45
Speaker 1: involved in something no one else has ever seen. And
44:48
Speaker 1: even as that bystander on TV, 30,000 kilometers away, you
44:53
Speaker 1: got to be a part of that. And that all
44:55
Speaker 1: comes down to We are so wired to reward novelty.
45:02
Speaker 1: So then now that comes back to your life and
45:04
Speaker 1: you have to be thinking, how do you walk away
45:07
Speaker 1: from that core drive?
45:09
Speaker 2: Thinking about a study I read about in psychology class
45:11
Speaker 2: in school with pigeons getting variable rewards. I'm going to
45:16
Speaker 2: butcher this, but bear with me. They took a pigeon
45:18
Speaker 2: and they got a little lever for it to press.
45:20
Speaker 2: And every time it would press the lever and sometimes
45:23
Speaker 2: it would get a reward. And they found from the
45:24
Speaker 2: study that that if they made the rewards variable, i.e.
45:27
Speaker 2: it couldn't predict when it was coming, the pigeon was
45:30
Speaker 2: more likely to keep pressing the lever, i.e. it was
45:32
Speaker 2: more addicted to the behavior if it didn't know when
45:35
Speaker 2: the dopamine hit was coming, or the treat in that case.
45:38
Speaker 2: Scrolling on social media is kind of like the slot
45:40
Speaker 2: machine of variable rewards. I just don't know what I'm
45:42
Speaker 2: going to get. But every fourth scroll, I get something that.
45:46
Speaker 1: Or every 40th.
45:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, or 40th.
45:48
Speaker 1: It's even better, right? Because the more unpredictable it is,
45:52
Speaker 1: the more likely you already be like one more, one more,
45:54
Speaker 1: one more, one more, right? Like if it actually comes
45:55
Speaker 1: too quickly, you care less. So you're going to scroll
45:59
Speaker 1: through all the boring stuff, boring stuff, boring stuff, boring stuff,
46:01
Speaker 1: boring stuff for the one in every 40 that gets you.
46:04
Speaker 1: That's what you're actually there for. I mean, if I
46:07
Speaker 1: gave most people and I said like, you can have $ 10, 000
46:09
Speaker 1: or you can have $ 10, 000 in equity in a startup.
46:15
Speaker 1: I look at your face. Like I know what you're doing.
46:18
Speaker 1: You want to like people are, it depends on where
46:20
Speaker 1: you're at. Right. But it's just like, okay. And if
46:22
Speaker 1: I said right now, the most likely scenario is that $ 10, 000
46:25
Speaker 1: goes zero.
46:27
Speaker 2: Yeah.
46:27
Speaker 1: Which is what happens. Right. You're like, can I hedge?
46:31
Speaker 1: Can I go five and five? Like you're going to go,
46:33
Speaker 1: you don't, unless you need the 10 grand, which a
46:35
Speaker 1: lot of people do, but you get the point because
46:38
Speaker 1: you're like, man, walking away from belief, walking away from hope,
46:43
Speaker 1: walking away from what F is in insanely hard to do.
46:46
Speaker 2: I deleted one of these social media apps just completely
46:48
Speaker 2: from my phone. And honestly, you always think that you're
46:50
Speaker 2: going to have like FOMO, you're not going to know
46:52
Speaker 2: what's going on, or there's going to be some huge
46:54
Speaker 2: loss to your life if you don't have an app
46:55
Speaker 2: on your phone. And it's just remarkable when you delete these,
46:57
Speaker 2: some of these social media apps, how positive of a
47:00
Speaker 2: net impact it has on your life.
47:03
Speaker 1: I have a friend of mine named Sean O'Malley, a
47:06
Speaker 1: famous UFC fighter. He was sitting at his pool and
47:10
Speaker 1: he had, his daughter was like one or two years
47:11
Speaker 1: old and he was like scrolling Twitter. And was like,
47:14
Speaker 1: what am I doing? Like my daughter's over here in
47:17
Speaker 1: front of me. She's two years old. And like, I'm
47:19
Speaker 1: on scrolling, like not doing work or not making a post.
47:21
Speaker 1: Not like I'm just scrolling.
47:25
Speaker 2: Dumped it.
47:25
Speaker 1: And was just like, team, you guys handle it. Not
47:27
Speaker 1: on any social media anymore.
47:29
Speaker 2: So that screens.
47:30
Speaker 1: That screens my friend. Another one to think about, which
47:32
Speaker 1: we've sort of touched on is called the presence of
47:34
Speaker 1: other beings. This is our classic sleep divorce. I assume you, uh,
47:42
Speaker 1: as I do, share your sleeping environment with your partner.
47:45
Speaker 2: Yes.
47:45
Speaker 1: Tough to make the argument of like get a sleep divorce, right?
47:49
Speaker 3: Yeah.
47:49
Speaker 2: I'm not telling her. You can tell her. It's funny.
47:53
Speaker 1: If it was up to my wife, we would have
47:54
Speaker 1: a sleep divorce.
47:55
Speaker 2: You're joking.
47:56
Speaker 1: No, she's like, get away from me. Don't touch me.
47:59
Speaker 1: She wants to be like, if we could have separate
48:01
Speaker 1: beds in separate rooms, she'd be, I don't know her name,
48:03
Speaker 1: but she just like.
48:04
Speaker 2: My fiance is the opposite.
48:05
Speaker 1: It's not super realistic, but it is true. There are
48:08
Speaker 1: data behind it. People generally don't sleep as well when
48:11
Speaker 1: you're in the same bed as others. The realistic solution,
48:15
Speaker 1: try to get sheets or a sleeping situation in which
48:18
Speaker 1: when one partner moves, it doesn't roll the other person.
48:21
Speaker 2: Oh, like separate sheets.
48:22
Speaker 1: Separate sheets or simply the type of sheets. My wife
48:26
Speaker 1: loves to be really constricted. So she likes the sheets
48:29
Speaker 1: tucked in tight. She likes to bed. And I hate it. Like,
48:33
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm in Shawshank. I'm like, break me out,
48:34
Speaker 1: like rip it all out of there. So there's little
48:37
Speaker 1: things like that that don't require you to buy anything.
48:39
Speaker 1: And we just change kind of the, the setup. And
48:43
Speaker 1: the scenario to where their movement doesn't impact you as much.
48:47
Speaker 1: Noise would be the same one. If you are sleeping
48:49
Speaker 1: with somebody who makes a lot of noise, tosses and
48:51
Speaker 1: turns a bunch, you could put a pillow in between.
48:54
Speaker 1: So when they roll over and move, they don't hit you. Earplugs,
48:57
Speaker 1: things like that. So that one's a pretty straightforward one.
48:59
Speaker 1: But that said, it's pretty impactful. It can really make
49:02
Speaker 1: a big difference. And if you're really struggling, maybe do
49:06
Speaker 1: a partial sleep divorce.
49:07
Speaker 2: Okay.
49:08
Speaker 1: Next, sleeping in new environment. This would oftentimes be called
49:11
Speaker 1: first night effect. So your first night, whether it's back home,
49:16
Speaker 1: whether it's in a hotel or somewhere else, you don't
49:19
Speaker 1: feel as comfortable and as safe and your circadian rhythms,
49:22
Speaker 1: the things that set your timing aren't there. This is sound.
49:25
Speaker 1: This is light. This is feel. This is temperature. This
49:27
Speaker 1: is smell. What you can do if you travel a lot,
49:31
Speaker 1: our athletes travel every three to five days, right? This
49:34
Speaker 1: is what they do. You can try to mimic your
49:36
Speaker 1: sleep environment at home on the road. Some people will
49:39
Speaker 1: take their pillows. Other things that are on the similar
49:42
Speaker 1: list are smells like lavender. Lavender is moderately associated with
49:47
Speaker 1: helping people fall asleep. None of those is going to
49:50
Speaker 1: like knock you out. What you're looking to do is
49:53
Speaker 1: stack winds. Next is temperature. You want to be cool. Generally,
49:58
Speaker 1: you're looking at 64 to 68 degrees. This is personally dependent.
50:03
Speaker 1: Some people actually like to be a little bit colder.
50:07
Speaker 1: So that they can have a heavier blanket because they
50:09
Speaker 1: like that feeling. When this idea got popular a few
50:12
Speaker 1: years ago, people just started raking the ACs, right? And
50:15
Speaker 1: you're just like, get this room as cold as you
50:17
Speaker 1: possibly can. That can become a problem because we're seeing
50:19
Speaker 1: this somewhat consistency where when people's air conditioners kick on,
50:23
Speaker 1: it actually wakes them up. And as we talked about earlier,
50:26
Speaker 1: with noise, it's not necessarily always about the volume, but
50:30
Speaker 1: it's the change in sound. And so you have something
50:33
Speaker 1: kicking on, kicking off, kicking on, kicking off. Another thing
50:35
Speaker 1: we see is because of air quality situations, we've seen
50:39
Speaker 1: quite often when we have environmental sensors and stuff that
50:42
Speaker 1: if your air conditioner is not clean and the fan
50:44
Speaker 1: is not in there, you can actually kick a bunch
50:46
Speaker 1: of dander and particulates and other things into the air.
50:49
Speaker 1: And then you start breathing those things in it overnight
50:52
Speaker 1: and your nose starts to get a little bit stuffed up.
50:54
Speaker 1: You can't breathe through your nose and then boom, you
50:57
Speaker 1: have this hypopneic or apneic event. The last component that
51:01
Speaker 1: comes up, you know, pretty often at absolute rest is fans,
51:06
Speaker 1: this can make your mouth dry. So if you're waking
51:08
Speaker 1: up with that and you're like, ah, I got to
51:10
Speaker 1: get a drink of water or something, um, then maybe
51:12
Speaker 1: consider not having the fan blow directly at your face.
51:15
Speaker 2: An interesting thing I was thinking about there, which is
51:17
Speaker 2: there was the viral experiment done in 2009 by mind
51:22
Speaker 2: lab sleep study, where they conducted, um, the sleep experiment
51:25
Speaker 2: at the university of Sussex researchers hooked men and women
51:28
Speaker 2: up to an ECG machine to measure their brain waves
51:30
Speaker 2: and played a variety of ambient sounds. while they slept,
51:34
Speaker 2: to see which noises triggered an immediate wake response. And
51:38
Speaker 2: the top wake responses from men and women was completely different.
51:41
Speaker 2: Men's top trigger was a car alarm. Women's top trigger
51:44
Speaker 2: was a baby crying. Men's top trigger was wind howling outside.
51:49
Speaker 2: Women's second top trigger, I should say, is a dripping tap.
51:54
Speaker 2: Men's third top is buzzing or flying of a mosquito.
51:58
Speaker 2: Women's was shouting outside. And both of their fourth top
52:02
Speaker 2: trigger was snoring. But it was interesting that the thing
52:06
Speaker 2: that woke most men at their top trigger in that
52:08
Speaker 2: study was an alarm outside, but women's was a baby's crying. Yeah.
52:12
Speaker 1: Every mother out there is gone.
52:13
Speaker 2: Yep.
52:14
Speaker 1: It's in fact, one of the largest causes of sleep
52:17
Speaker 1: disorders in women is having children. What happens after childbirth,
52:22
Speaker 1: and it's a whole interesting field here of postpartum care,
52:25
Speaker 1: is really poor in women. Like we just sort of
52:28
Speaker 1: like start paying attention to baby, stop paying attention to mom.
52:31
Speaker 1: as soon as baby comes out. Well, I'm saying that
52:32
Speaker 1: because it is obvious and clear that the last trimester
52:37
Speaker 1: can present a lot of sleep challenges for women. And
52:39
Speaker 1: then especially as soon as the baby's there, like you're
52:40
Speaker 1: just going to have some known period of sleep deprivation,
52:43
Speaker 1: whether it's delivery or having a newborn, all that stuff.
52:47
Speaker 1: And that can actually cause patterns. This can cause insomnia.
52:50
Speaker 1: This can cause irregular sleep schedules, circadian disorders, natural thing.
52:54
Speaker 1: Totally fine. In some percentage of women, those patterns will persist.
52:59
Speaker 1: And so you'll see women who have sleep disorders, even
53:01
Speaker 1: with adult children, that started because of the childbirth. We
53:06
Speaker 1: were advocating at all times, like, yeah, get through it.
53:09
Speaker 1: I got two kids. You know, I've been there. But
53:12
Speaker 1: then just make sure you're providing care and going back
53:14
Speaker 1: to try to fix those things. And why that is
53:16
Speaker 1: difficult is because the study is mentioned.
53:19
Speaker 2: It's worth saying there is an evolutionary theory behind this
53:21
Speaker 2: that says, you know, men and women are attuned to
53:24
Speaker 2: different things. But there's also a counter argument that says
53:26
Speaker 2: the difference between in who actually wakes up and who
53:29
Speaker 2: gets out of bed is often heavily driven by social roles,
53:31
Speaker 2: parenting expectations, and individual sleep depth rather than a biological
53:34
Speaker 2: inability for men to hear the baby. So how do
53:37
Speaker 2: we close off on the subject of sleep? Is there
53:39
Speaker 2: anything that we haven't touched on that we should have
53:41
Speaker 2: touched on as it pertains to how to have incredible sleep?
53:45
Speaker 1: One thing that I think will help everyone, whether you're
53:47
Speaker 1: at any of those stages, free a little bit of
53:49
Speaker 1: money or you got to go the full end of
53:52
Speaker 1: the spectrum and use a hospital or a service like
53:54
Speaker 1: ours is... Everyone has the ability to run self-experiments. We
54:00
Speaker 1: have a free guide that anyone can go use. And
54:03
Speaker 1: it's just a quick tutorial about how to run your
54:05
Speaker 1: own self-experiment for sleep specifically. Oh, there you go.
54:09
Speaker 2: Yeah.
54:10
Speaker 1: So this is up and available for free on our website.
54:13
Speaker 1: Anyone can check it out. There's a lot of stuff
54:15
Speaker 1: in here we've covered. You can get more into it.
54:16
Speaker 1: But the short answer of it is we don't want
54:19
Speaker 1: to make people think sleep has to be the center
54:23
Speaker 1: of their life. Oftentimes when sleep comes up, people start thinking,
54:27
Speaker 1: I'd love to sleep more, but I'm too busy. Hey,
54:31
Speaker 1: I'm the same boat. I can't afford to have a
54:34
Speaker 1: 12-hour sleep routine. Where we should be paying attention to
54:36
Speaker 1: is sleep resilience. Steve, I want you to be as
54:40
Speaker 1: resilient to bad sleep as possible. I don't want you
54:44
Speaker 1: optimizing your sleep because optimization turns into that. Giant routine
54:51
Speaker 1: before bed. I got to take 12 different supplements and
54:55
Speaker 1: four different cocktails. And again, if I have to do
54:57
Speaker 1: that along the way, great. The end game though, should
55:01
Speaker 1: be resilient. Meaning you had a bad night of sleep.
55:05
Speaker 2: Cool.
55:05
Speaker 1: And you still performed. We had this challenge. Flight got delayed. Great.
55:10
Speaker 1: We still executed. I want you to know how to
55:12
Speaker 1: get a good night of sleep so you can feel
55:16
Speaker 1: as refreshed as possible, execute the next day and then
55:18
Speaker 1: get right back onto it. The way you get there is,
55:22
Speaker 1: and that's the The way our company works, like we're
55:24
Speaker 1: just going to run a series of experiments and everyone
55:27
Speaker 1: can do that. Start by changing one thing. Your trackers,
55:32
Speaker 1: your data are going to tell you how you're sleeping,
55:36
Speaker 1: but they're not telling you why you're sleeping that way.
55:38
Speaker 1: So that's your quest. Go figure out why you're sleeping
55:41
Speaker 1: that way. Is it your bedroom temperature? Is it your partner?
55:45
Speaker 1: Is it the fact that you're sensitive to light? Is
55:47
Speaker 1: it the fact you're exercising too late? Are you eating
55:49
Speaker 1: too late? Like all these things are possible. One at
55:54
Speaker 1: a time.
55:55
Speaker 2: Just like John Jones, where marginal improvements in your cognitive
55:58
Speaker 2: performance can have a massive impact. Sometimes I podcast for
56:01
Speaker 2: 10 hours a day. Over the last couple of weeks,
56:02
Speaker 2: I've been in filming for a TV show and I
56:05
Speaker 2: have like one or two days off to get all
56:06
Speaker 2: of my work done, which means there's lots of cognitive load.
56:09
Speaker 2: And so I turned to ketones because I find myself
56:12
Speaker 2: more articulate, able to think more clearly, able to work
56:15
Speaker 2: out better. when I'm fueled by ketones. And so the
56:18
Speaker 2: reason I became a co-owner of this company and the
56:20
Speaker 2: reason why they now are a sponsor of this podcast
56:22
Speaker 2: is because I remember one of my team members called Christiana,
56:24
Speaker 2: she tried it once and came up to my desk
56:25
Speaker 2: and she goes, this is the best product ever made.
56:28
Speaker 2: And I think in part, that's because she really cares
56:30
Speaker 2: about those cognitive benefits as I do, as John Jones does.
56:34
Speaker 2: And as I think most of my listeners probably will.
56:35
Speaker 2: So if you haven't tried these yet, all you have
56:38
Speaker 2: to do is go to ketone.com slash Stephen and And
56:42
Speaker 2: you'll also get 30% off your first subscription order. You'll
56:44
Speaker 2: get exclusive Ketone IQ merch. And of course, cognitive benefits
56:49
Speaker 2: that might just change your life. If you're thinking about
56:52
Speaker 2: starting a business, one of the first decisions you'll have
56:54
Speaker 2: to make is actually one of the most important, which
56:57
Speaker 2: is where do you build that business? Our product team,
56:59
Speaker 2: who manages everything we do from our conversation cards to
57:02
Speaker 2: our diaries, has always used our sponsor, Shopify. There are
57:06
Speaker 2: a few reasons for this, but one of the big
57:07
Speaker 2: ones is that when you're running a business, you really
57:10
Speaker 2: need your own store and your own customer data. And
57:13
Speaker 2: Shopify gives you exactly that. You aren't renting space from
57:16
Speaker 2: someone else's platform, hoping the rules don't suddenly change. And
57:19
Speaker 2: you avoid the classic founder challenges that inevitably come, like
57:22
Speaker 2: sorting out payments and logistics and storefronts, because it's already
57:26
Speaker 2: built into Shopify. Those early days are messy enough without
57:29
Speaker 2: the infrastructure challenge. to create extra problems for you. And
57:33
Speaker 2: Shopify's distribution piece is underrated too, because your products automatically
57:37
Speaker 2: get in front of people on Google, TikTok, YouTube, ChatGPT,
57:40
Speaker 2: which again, isn't something you have to figure out yourself.
57:43
Speaker 2: It's just already built into their platform. If you are
57:45
Speaker 2: serious about starting your own thing, start your free trial
57:48
Speaker 2: at shopify.com slash Bartlett. I guess one could argue that
57:53
Speaker 2: the antithesis of sleep is being awake. And when we're awake,
57:57
Speaker 2: the thing we care about is energy. Now, I had
58:00
Speaker 2: a really great conversation on this podcast with several people
58:04
Speaker 2: that talk about mitochondria and energy and those kinds of things.
58:07
Speaker 2: Some of those conversations have really, really changed me. If
58:09
Speaker 2: you haven't listened to the more recent conversation we had
58:12
Speaker 2: on mitochondria in the channel, please do go listen to it.
58:15
Speaker 1: Martin Picard?
58:16
Speaker 2: Martin Picard. Honestly, it's one of my favorite conversations I've
58:19
Speaker 2: had this year just because I knew about the mitochondria.
58:22
Speaker 2: I conceptually knew what it was, but I hadn't thought
58:25
Speaker 2: about it as... being so central to everything in my life,
58:32
Speaker 2: because energy is essential to everything in my life, like
58:34
Speaker 2: my relationships, my ability to do this, my joy, everything.
58:38
Speaker 2: If someone is trying to improve their energy levels, and
58:42
Speaker 2: that's what they come to you with in terms of
58:43
Speaker 2: a symptom that they self-describe, where do you aim? Okay,
58:46
Speaker 2: so we've talked about sleep, but where else do you aim?
58:50
Speaker 1: Energy is probably the number one thing on our list
58:54
Speaker 1: of reasons people come to us.
58:55
Speaker 2: What do they say?
58:56
Speaker 1: I'm tired all day, can't figure it out. Or I
58:59
Speaker 1: don't have the energy I used to have, or I
59:02
Speaker 1: can't sustain output like I used to, whether this is physical,
59:06
Speaker 1: my recovery is longer than it used to be, or
59:09
Speaker 1: I just can't hang. working as many hours as I
59:11
Speaker 1: used to do. I get fatigued at the end of
59:14
Speaker 1: the day, cognitively. I'm not of the camp that this
59:16
Speaker 1: is entirely mitochondria, but I certainly will agree that energy
59:20
Speaker 1: would be the number one effect. Probably the most common
59:21
Speaker 1: question to work on my career is what separates these
59:24
Speaker 1: world performers from the rest of us? And people want
59:28
Speaker 1: me to say things like they work harder.
59:31
Speaker 2: They don't.
59:32
Speaker 1: They are categorically better at energy management. That is the
59:37
Speaker 1: one thing that seems to be most consistent, again, with
59:40
Speaker 1: the world's highest performers, athletes, entrepreneurs, leaders, executives, you name it,
59:46
Speaker 1: however you're defining success. When you get better at managing energy,
59:51
Speaker 1: you're more effective. This is everything from cellular energy to
59:56
Speaker 1: understanding things like your own interpersonal communication. What type of
1:00:01
Speaker 1: relationships give you energy? What type of relationships take energy
1:00:04
Speaker 1: from you? What type of activities give you energy? What
1:00:06
Speaker 1: type give you back? When can you be more efficient?
1:00:09
Speaker 1: When are you running for the sake of running and
1:00:11
Speaker 1: not actually running in a direction? And I mean this figuratively,
1:00:14
Speaker 1: not literally. This is all energy management. And what you'll
1:00:18
Speaker 1: see is these people are world-class performers, get incredibly good
1:00:21
Speaker 1: at going 80% of my energy suck comes out of
1:00:24
Speaker 1: here for 20% ROI. I'm going to switch that out.
1:00:27
Speaker 1: They're better at choosing what matters and what doesn't matter.
1:00:30
Speaker 2: Okay.
1:00:30
Speaker 1: And this is everything from what supplement is working to
1:00:34
Speaker 1: what type of person that they work with. Where people
1:00:36
Speaker 1: struggle is in the like, what if I could also
1:00:39
Speaker 1: be doing this? What if I could also be doing this?
1:00:40
Speaker 1: What if I add this on top? What if I
1:00:41
Speaker 1: add this on top? Okay.
1:00:42
Speaker 2: So I thought you were talking about, I guess if
1:00:45
Speaker 2: I try and put this into some sort of analogy
1:00:47
Speaker 2: or metaphor, the high performers wake up with a hundred
1:00:51
Speaker 2: energy chips, let's say, and they're really, really good at
1:00:54
Speaker 2: allocating them against the most important thing. Yes. Whereas maybe
1:00:57
Speaker 2: Jenny and Dave listening kind of let it seep out.
1:01:00
Speaker 2: They put 20 on Instagram, 20 over here on this.
1:01:03
Speaker 2: And they spin their wheels. They spin their wheels.
1:01:05
Speaker 1: They go, okay, great. I'm going to, I listened to
1:01:08
Speaker 1: this podcast and I got super excited about zone two.
1:01:11
Speaker 1: I'm going to go hop into a bunch of zone two.
1:01:13
Speaker 1: And then I listened to this other podcast and I
1:01:14
Speaker 1: got super excited about journaling. Let me go add journaling
1:01:18
Speaker 1: to my mix. And then what ends up happening is
1:01:20
Speaker 1: you see their daily routine and you're like, okay, your
1:01:23
Speaker 1: daily routine is 20 hours. And then at some point,
1:01:26
Speaker 1: like you didn't actually do anything that mattered. What is
1:01:29
Speaker 1: the one thing that can get you to that goal
1:01:33
Speaker 1: in the most effective way possible? And then everything else
1:01:36
Speaker 1: has to actively be stripped away. So the traditional thing
1:01:39
Speaker 1: we like to do is we give one to two
1:01:42
Speaker 1: what we call active movements per week, which is this
1:01:47
Speaker 1: is something, Stephen, you have to actively remember to do.
1:01:50
Speaker 1: You don't actively remember to brush your teeth. You don't
1:01:52
Speaker 1: have to actively remember to.
1:01:53
Speaker 2: Shower, blah, blah, blah.
1:01:54
Speaker 1: You might at this point not have to actively think
1:01:56
Speaker 1: about your gratitude practice or your meditation time. Like you
1:01:59
Speaker 1: probably have these things you've been doing for years.
1:02:01
Speaker 2: Great.
1:02:02
Speaker 1: I don't actually call those additive because you do those,
1:02:04
Speaker 1: you're going to get those in. But I might ask
1:02:06
Speaker 1: you to do one thing different. I don't know what
1:02:09
Speaker 1: that would be, but I would look at this and say,
1:02:11
Speaker 1: here's your constraint. I'm not going to ask you to
1:02:13
Speaker 1: do five things new. It's too difficult. Maybe this is
1:02:17
Speaker 1: a change in what time you eat.
1:02:18
Speaker 2: Okay.
1:02:19
Speaker 1: Your training style. find what's constraining you from your energy.
1:02:24
Speaker 2: What things could it be?
1:02:24
Speaker 1: It could be sleep. It could be mismanagement of relationships.
1:02:27
Speaker 1: It could be you're working too much. It could be
1:02:30
Speaker 1: you're under fueling. You're not eating enough. It could be
1:02:33
Speaker 1: that you're overusing stimulants, sleeping poor, and you're in that cycle, right?
1:02:38
Speaker 1: It could be you're not seeing sunlight. So what you
1:02:40
Speaker 1: need to do is run a quick analysis and think,
1:02:43
Speaker 1: what is the single biggest thing in your way? Is
1:02:46
Speaker 1: it the fact that you're in pain?
1:02:49
Speaker 2: Great.
1:02:49
Speaker 1: Maybe the only one thing I want you to go
1:02:51
Speaker 1: after then is let's go figure out why that knee hurts. Okay.
1:02:55
Speaker 2: So for me, you've seen my blood results. Yeah. So
1:02:58
Speaker 2: what things might improve my energy from the blood results
1:03:00
Speaker 2: that you saw?
1:03:01
Speaker 1: What are you? Mid thirties?
1:03:04
Speaker 2: Early thirties? I'm 33.
1:03:05
Speaker 1: 33. All right. You're lean. You're active. The first thing
1:03:09
Speaker 1: that jumps out on your report.
1:03:11
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:03:11
Speaker 1: Can we skip that page?
1:03:14
Speaker 2: Skip the page.
1:03:15
Speaker 1: You're going to see quickly the difference between medicine and performance.
1:03:18
Speaker 2: Okay.
1:03:19
Speaker 1: This is medical. So we're looking at cholesterol and cholesterol-related markers.
1:03:24
Speaker 1: You've got, I don't know, a dozen of them or
1:03:26
Speaker 1: so there. Not one's good. This is incredibly actionable.
1:03:31
Speaker 2: Can I ask a question about this? What does it mean?
1:03:35
Speaker 2: And then I was going to ask a secondary question,
1:03:36
Speaker 2: which is I was going to try and self-diagnose why
1:03:38
Speaker 2: I think this is the case.
1:03:39
Speaker 1: I would love that second question. That'll actually tell us
1:03:41
Speaker 1: where to go. So when you look at things like
1:03:43
Speaker 1: blood work, these are secondary measures, right? They're trying to
1:03:47
Speaker 1: predict what we'll call an outcome. Meaning in this case,
1:03:50
Speaker 1: we are looking at your heart health. There is an association,
1:03:54
Speaker 1: and I choose that word carefully, between cholesterol and cardiovascular disease. Okay.
1:04:00
Speaker 2: High cholesterol, low cholesterol, good cholesterol, bad?
1:04:03
Speaker 1: All of the above. Very traditionally, excessively high cholesterol is
1:04:08
Speaker 1: going to be associated with earlier heart disease. Heart attack
1:04:12
Speaker 1: could even manifest itself into strokes and things like that, right?
1:04:15
Speaker 1: So if we were to just like zoom all the
1:04:18
Speaker 1: way out and we say, all right, your cholesterol is
1:04:19
Speaker 1: extremely high. I'm concerned about your heart health. There's way
1:04:24
Speaker 1: more to the story. But at the top of it,
1:04:28
Speaker 1: that's where we're at.
1:04:28
Speaker 2: So the second question I was going to ask is,
1:04:30
Speaker 2: at the time that I did these blood test results,
1:04:33
Speaker 2: I was frequently in a ketogenic diet.
1:04:35
Speaker 1: I know. There's a lot to unpack here and a
1:04:37
Speaker 1: lot of people are going to get mad online. Cholesterol
1:04:40
Speaker 1: has lifestyle, dietary, and familial causes. Oftentimes you might have
1:04:47
Speaker 1: high cholesterol and all these various markers simply because that's
1:04:50
Speaker 1: a familial genetic inheritance and there's not a lot of
1:04:52
Speaker 1: action behind it. When you see these things independent of obesity,
1:04:57
Speaker 1: now we have a different connotation. If I were to
1:04:58
Speaker 1: look at all this stuff and go, oh yeah, sure,
1:05:00
Speaker 1: you're 35% body fat. I know you drink alcohol. Then
1:05:04
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, this is true, but let's tackle those
1:05:07
Speaker 1: things first because those have so many robust implications on
1:05:10
Speaker 1: your health. That's the starting place. You don't drink alcohol excessively.
1:05:15
Speaker 1: I don't even know if you drink alcohol at all.
1:05:17
Speaker 1: Haven't in years, I assume, right? You don't smoke. You
1:05:20
Speaker 1: don't like, I don't know. So all those things are
1:05:22
Speaker 1: checked off the list. This means this is actionable.
1:05:24
Speaker 2: I should give you some context here. My uncle died
1:05:26
Speaker 2: of a heart attack and my dad had a heart
1:05:28
Speaker 2: operation last week.
1:05:29
Speaker 1: Ooh. Do you remember what kind of heart operation?
1:05:32
Speaker 2: He had a pacemaker put in, but he's been on statins,
1:05:37
Speaker 2: I think, for a long time. I think he's been
1:05:40
Speaker 2: on statins for about 15 years, if I was to guess,
1:05:42
Speaker 2: about 15, 20 years. Yeah.
1:05:44
Speaker 1: So when I look at this independent of your obesity
1:05:47
Speaker 1: with your familial history, do you remember what advice you
1:05:50
Speaker 1: got when you got these results of what to do?
1:05:51
Speaker 2: Do you know, I did two tests. I did this
1:05:55
Speaker 2: one with Function Health, who I believe are a sponsor,
1:05:57
Speaker 2: so I should say that. And I did the second
1:06:00
Speaker 2: one with Nico Health, where I'm a big investor in
1:06:02
Speaker 2: the company. They both said to me, like, Steve, stop
1:06:04
Speaker 2: eating steak all the time. Bacon, stop eating bacon all
1:06:08
Speaker 2: the time. The way that I heard it was, damn,
1:06:11
Speaker 2: this ketogenic diet you've been on, Steve, you need to
1:06:12
Speaker 2: just take it easy.
1:06:14
Speaker 1: And have you done blood work since then?
1:06:16
Speaker 2: No. All right.
1:06:17
Speaker 1: First thing that would pop up, and this is the
1:06:19
Speaker 1: order I would do this in. When you get something
1:06:21
Speaker 1: like blood work, the value is not in the data.
1:06:27
Speaker 1: The value is in the interpretation. What they're talking about,
1:06:30
Speaker 1: why you heard that as steak, butter, bacon, is because
1:06:33
Speaker 1: those are food items high in saturated fat. Saturated fat
1:06:38
Speaker 1: is not evil. There are no evil foods. It's only
1:06:41
Speaker 1: evil context, right? So in your particular case, if we
1:06:44
Speaker 1: saw those, and we don't have this, but if we
1:06:47
Speaker 1: had your baseline before that test, and then we had
1:06:52
Speaker 1: this and we went, okay, when you change your diet
1:06:54
Speaker 1: and increased your saturated fat intake, and then we saw
1:06:56
Speaker 1: these numbers increase, most ethical people in this space would
1:07:00
Speaker 1: look at that and say, that's not a positive thing.
1:07:03
Speaker 1: That does not mean ketogenic diets are bad or unsafe.
1:07:07
Speaker 1: Not at all. It only means if we had those
1:07:09
Speaker 1: theoretical data for you, it's probably not healthy. You stack
1:07:13
Speaker 1: that on top of the fact that you have your
1:07:15
Speaker 1: uncle and your dad in there. Then I would triple
1:07:17
Speaker 1: down and go, talk to your doctor. I'm not your
1:07:20
Speaker 1: medical doctor. But I'd be really concerned about that. Then
1:07:24
Speaker 1: what I would do would be go to the next step.
1:07:26
Speaker 1: Let's run the experiment and see. This is an indirect marker.
1:07:30
Speaker 1: And remember, what is it trying to predict? Your heart health.
1:07:34
Speaker 1: Have you had your heart scanned?
1:07:36
Speaker 2: Yes, I have. And? They said that I had like,
1:07:39
Speaker 2: I had a thick wall. Okay. Okay.
1:07:41
Speaker 1: Exercise-induced cardiac remodeling, especially if it's left ventricular, it's a
1:07:47
Speaker 1: good thing, right? So if your heart has four chambers,
1:07:49
Speaker 1: two on top, two on bottom, the two on the
1:07:51
Speaker 1: top are called atria, ventricles on the bottom. Oh, you've
1:07:54
Speaker 1: got a great image there as well.
1:07:55
Speaker 3: Yeah.
1:07:56
Speaker 1: So you can look at this as a maze. Okay.
1:07:59
Speaker 1: So we'll use double modeling here. Can you see how
1:08:02
Speaker 1: the left ventricle is much larger than the right ventricle?
1:08:07
Speaker 2: There's a reason.
1:08:08
Speaker 1: The right ventricle only has to kick blood to your lungs.
1:08:12
Speaker 1: which are physically a few inches away. The left ventricle
1:08:18
Speaker 1: has to kick it up, out, through your entire body,
1:08:22
Speaker 1: down to the tip of your toes, all the way
1:08:24
Speaker 1: back up against gravity, and then back up into your heart.
1:08:28
Speaker 1: And so what you're seeing here is strength training. This
1:08:31
Speaker 1: is resistance exercise. Your left ventricle is lifting weights. It
1:08:34
Speaker 1: has to be bigger. It has to be stronger so
1:08:36
Speaker 1: that it can contract really hard and shoot all that
1:08:39
Speaker 1: blood up and down and up and up. If you
1:08:43
Speaker 1: said you had a thicker wall, either naturally or exercise induced,
1:08:48
Speaker 1: just like when you lift with your biceps more, it's larger,
1:08:51
Speaker 1: the same thing is happening in left ventricle. Incredibly common
1:08:54
Speaker 1: and healthy adaptation.
1:08:56
Speaker 2: Okay.
1:08:57
Speaker 1: What we would be concerned about is if there was
1:08:59
Speaker 1: any type of blockage or any type of plaque buildup.
1:09:05
Speaker 2: One of the things that i remember them saying is
1:09:08
Speaker 2: they again i'm going to butcher this but they told
1:09:09
Speaker 2: me there's kind of like two types of plaque build
1:09:11
Speaker 2: up in my veins or my arteries whatever and they
1:09:14
Speaker 2: said the bad type you haven't got And they said,
1:09:18
Speaker 2: but the other type you have got. And I think
1:09:22
Speaker 2: they were referring to the bad type as being more sticky.
1:09:24
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:09:25
Speaker 2: And it doesn't go.
1:09:26
Speaker 1: It'll dislodge.
1:09:27
Speaker 2: Oh, okay. And that can cause a risk.
1:09:29
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:09:29
Speaker 2: They said, I didn't have the bad type, but I
1:09:31
Speaker 2: had this other type that is temporary but could turn
1:09:33
Speaker 2: into the bad type or something. Yeah.
1:09:35
Speaker 1: One thing you want to be really careful of, and
1:09:37
Speaker 1: this happened to a dear friend of mine, Joel Jameson. Young,
1:09:40
Speaker 1: super fit, all the things. No stress, doesn't smoke, doesn't drink,
1:09:44
Speaker 1: much like you, all this stuff. Family history.
1:09:46
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
1:09:47
Speaker 1: Didn't think about it. Blood work came back totally fine.
1:09:51
Speaker 1: Still asked to get a CT angiogram, scan of his heart.
1:09:55
Speaker 1: His cardiologist said, no, you don't need it. You're young.
1:09:57
Speaker 1: You're all the thing. Got it anyways. And I think
1:10:00
Speaker 1: he had a 50% blockage of what's called a widowmaker.
1:10:04
Speaker 1: You're flipping the dice whether you're going to die here, right?
1:10:06
Speaker 1: So this is a classic case to me where he's
1:10:08
Speaker 1: doing all the right things. But imaging saved his life.
1:10:11
Speaker 1: Let's not live in fear.
1:10:12
Speaker 2: Let's go look.
1:10:13
Speaker 1: You went and had a look. I'll just trust your physicians.
1:10:16
Speaker 2: Great.
1:10:16
Speaker 1: Then I'm less worried about this because this could be
1:10:20
Speaker 1: a direct response to your ketogenic diet, which it almost
1:10:22
Speaker 1: certainly was. And if it's presenting no risk to the
1:10:25
Speaker 1: place we actually care about, then I'm less concerned about
1:10:28
Speaker 1: your cholesterol.
1:10:29
Speaker 2: But if it carries on like this, could it create
1:10:31
Speaker 2: a risk?
1:10:32
Speaker 1: Absolutely could.
1:10:32
Speaker 2: Okay. Because they all did tell me to fix this. Yeah.
1:10:35
Speaker 1: Just keep getting it scanned every few years. And if
1:10:37
Speaker 1: you see any aggressive, any buildup at all, then I
1:10:39
Speaker 1: would manage it. Okay. Now, what you're seeing over here
1:10:42
Speaker 1: is that client of ours, And so as an example,
1:10:46
Speaker 1: I'll give you a specific number. His total cholesterol was 347.
1:10:50
Speaker 1: We got him down to 223.
1:10:51
Speaker 2: What did you do?
1:10:52
Speaker 1: Fiber.
1:10:53
Speaker 2: Why fiber?
1:10:54
Speaker 1: Stress reduction. Fiber, depending on the type of cholesterol, will
1:10:58
Speaker 1: actually bind to the cholesterol and clear it from the system.
1:11:01
Speaker 1: It will physically reduce it.
1:11:02
Speaker 2: That's why one of the supplements I was told to
1:11:05
Speaker 2: take is a fiber supplement.
1:11:06
Speaker 1: It's not always going to something, and I want to
1:11:08
Speaker 1: be really clear. If you have numbers like you had,
1:11:13
Speaker 1: you need to work with a doctor. Mm-hmm. and you
1:11:14
Speaker 1: need to get screened. Don't just be like, I took Fibro,
1:11:17
Speaker 1: I'm fine. This guy said on a podcast, that's not
1:11:18
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. But it is, it can be effective.
1:11:21
Speaker 1: The other thing we did was massive stress reduction. I
1:11:23
Speaker 1: was a very hard charging CEO for a large company.
1:11:26
Speaker 2: How is stress reduction going to impact my cholesterol?
1:11:28
Speaker 1: Things like cholesterol can be what are called acute phase reactants,
1:11:31
Speaker 1: some parts of them, not all of them. Meaning it
1:11:34
Speaker 1: responds to acute stress and stimuli. When you look at
1:11:37
Speaker 1: things like blood work, they aren't static. They're responding to
1:11:41
Speaker 1: the entire system. And so if you were to be stressed,
1:11:43
Speaker 1: and we'll not to blame are they in cortisol, but
1:11:46
Speaker 1: cortisol is elevated. You are in a heightened alert state.
1:11:50
Speaker 1: This causes short-term inflammation. In fact, if you look at,
1:11:52
Speaker 1: I think your inflammation was a little bit nuts over there.
1:11:56
Speaker 1: This guy as well, probably like your most classic inflammation
1:12:00
Speaker 1: marker is called CRP. His was at two, which is
1:12:04
Speaker 1: really high. We got him from two to 0.2. So
1:12:07
Speaker 1: 10X reduction. That then allowed cholesterol to normalize. Um, The easiest,
1:12:12
Speaker 1: most technical way to get to say it is it's
1:12:13
Speaker 1: an acute phase reactant, meaning it will change in response
1:12:16
Speaker 1: acutely to inflammation. Some markers will go up and some
1:12:20
Speaker 1: will go down in response to that, like vitamin D
1:12:23
Speaker 1: goes down.
1:12:24
Speaker 2: If what? If you.
1:12:25
Speaker 1: In a stressed environment. Some go up, some go down.
1:12:28
Speaker 1: Blood glucose goes up.
1:12:30
Speaker 2: So you've got your stress down, you've got your fiber up.
1:12:32
Speaker 1: And that took him from 347 to 223, which is
1:12:33
Speaker 1: still high. Went from 223 to 163. Now that took
1:12:35
Speaker 1: a statin.
1:12:40
Speaker 2: Oh, so you did give him a statin.
1:12:41
Speaker 1: We didn't, but his medical team did. Okay. And so this,
1:12:44
Speaker 1: why I want to draw this point out is we
1:12:47
Speaker 1: were able to go a long ways with lifestyle, but
1:12:52
Speaker 1: he wanted to go more. He wanted to be green, green, green, green, green.
1:12:56
Speaker 1: So that's when medicine came in. And I, to me,
1:12:59
Speaker 1: this represents a great marriage of the two. Some people
1:13:03
Speaker 1: are very anti-medicine. Some people are, that's not my decision.
1:13:06
Speaker 1: That's up to you and your medical provider. But I
1:13:09
Speaker 1: think it's unfair to tell people things like all of
1:13:12
Speaker 1: it can be done with lifestyle and there's no need
1:13:16
Speaker 1: for medicines ever or the opposite. I'm just like, oh,
1:13:18
Speaker 1: just take the drug. Don't worry about it. He needed
1:13:21
Speaker 1: all of it. He needed stress reduction. He needed some
1:13:24
Speaker 1: changes in his diet. And that made a huge change
1:13:27
Speaker 1: in his biological health. So if you were to be like, look,
1:13:29
Speaker 1: this is so complicated. This guy, like, how can I
1:13:32
Speaker 1: make actionable advice of all this stuff? This guy's saying
1:13:34
Speaker 1: I don't have a private doctor.
1:13:35
Speaker 3: Cool.
1:13:36
Speaker 1: Just run the experiment. Try more fiber, try to regulate
1:13:38
Speaker 1: your stress. If you want to go the opposite route
1:13:41
Speaker 1: and jump right onto the medical side, that's fine too.
1:13:45
Speaker 1: But it doesn't need to be super scary or super
1:13:46
Speaker 1: daunting because these are not like, especially if your heart
1:13:50
Speaker 1: has been scanned, I'm not concerned about an acute emergency.
1:13:53
Speaker 2: The two things on here that I thought were shocking
1:13:56
Speaker 2: to me are my vitamin D levels and my omega levels,
1:14:00
Speaker 2: which I was told were deficient. I thought I was
1:14:03
Speaker 2: smashing it with those two because I think I was
1:14:05
Speaker 2: living in LA at the time. Yeah.
1:14:07
Speaker 1: So your vitamin D was borderline low. Fairly traditionally, people
1:14:12
Speaker 1: of African heritage are going to be lower on that marker.
1:14:15
Speaker 2: Okay.
1:14:16
Speaker 1: You're at 37. Kind of lower end of that number
1:14:19
Speaker 1: is 40. That might actually be fine.
1:14:22
Speaker 2: I think I heard you say something about vitamin D. Again,
1:14:25
Speaker 2: I don't want to butcher your words if this wasn't
1:14:26
Speaker 2: what you said, but you kind of make the assumption
1:14:28
Speaker 2: that most people are deficient.
1:14:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is true.
1:14:30
Speaker 2: Why does it matter?
1:14:31
Speaker 1: So vitamin D is a nice microcosm of raw health.
1:14:36
Speaker 1: So what I mean by that is you'll tend to
1:14:37
Speaker 1: see people low in vitamin D who are also tending
1:14:39
Speaker 1: to make poor health choices. So it's a little bit
1:14:41
Speaker 1: like grip strength and all that where it's kind of
1:14:44
Speaker 1: a one snap shot at saying, are you generally healthy
1:14:48
Speaker 1: or not? Why is it needed specifically? It is involved
1:14:52
Speaker 1: in every reaction from your brain to your gut, to
1:14:56
Speaker 1: your hormones, your immune system, metabolism, and everything in between.
1:15:01
Speaker 1: It's critical to maintaining bone health. It's skeletal muscle. It's
1:15:06
Speaker 1: also clinically low in a high percentage of the population
1:15:09
Speaker 1: and even subclinically low in a vast majority of the population.
1:15:13
Speaker 2: So should we be supplementing if we are low?
1:15:16
Speaker 1: The real world will always win. Whole foods, sunlight, positive
1:15:20
Speaker 1: social environments. That's always the place to start. So do
1:15:24
Speaker 1: you want to supplement with it? That's up to you.
1:15:25
Speaker 1: I would much rather you get sunlight if possible. Now
1:15:28
Speaker 1: enter everyone in the chat going, I live in the UK.
1:15:30
Speaker 1: There's no sun. Sort of up here. Fine. If you
1:15:33
Speaker 1: want to choose something supplement, because you live in those situations,
1:15:38
Speaker 1: then that's absolutely fine.
1:15:39
Speaker 2: Or I work in an office for 12 hours a day.
1:15:42
Speaker 2: It's interesting because there is a bit of a paradox
1:15:43
Speaker 2: here in we're all in search of very natural solutions
1:15:46
Speaker 2: in a very unnatural way of living. I had this
1:15:50
Speaker 2: conversation with my fiance a couple of weeks back about
1:15:52
Speaker 2: a few things where in one area of our life,
1:15:54
Speaker 2: we're trying to be really, really natural. But I'm like, babe,
1:16:00
Speaker 2: look at the rest of our lives. It's so unnatural.
1:16:01
Speaker 2: We get on planes and have these smartphones and And
1:16:04
Speaker 2: so almost forcing this one part to be natural is
1:16:07
Speaker 2: arguably going to cause a bit of a problem.
1:16:08
Speaker 1: I mean, it happens to me, right? Like I'll put
1:16:12
Speaker 1: in the entire hours of the day and not even
1:16:14
Speaker 1: realize I didn't step outside.
1:16:15
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:16:15
Speaker 1: It absolutely happens. So what I think you have to
1:16:18
Speaker 1: do is number one, give yourself grace, right? Like you're
1:16:21
Speaker 1: not going to be perfect. I'm especially thinking about like
1:16:23
Speaker 1: single parents. It's just like, you're not going to go
1:16:26
Speaker 1: out and spend 30 minutes in the sun.
1:16:27
Speaker 2: Night shift workers. Totally.
1:16:29
Speaker 1: Boy, that's a really hard thing. We've dealt with a
1:16:31
Speaker 1: lot of nurses and surgeons and things like that, where
1:16:33
Speaker 1: you're On call, you're out. And that's when we can
1:16:36
Speaker 1: lean towards modern medicine, modern supplementation. It's why those things
1:16:39
Speaker 1: are not trash. They're not garbage. They're not fake. Our
1:16:42
Speaker 1: strategy typically is, can we find one actionable thing? One
1:16:46
Speaker 1: thing that you're doing as a focus that is something
1:16:49
Speaker 1: you got to go out of your way and do.
1:16:50
Speaker 1: And that might be, you have to go outside today.
1:16:54
Speaker 1: That might be your one thing to pay attention to.
1:16:55
Speaker 1: When you start asking for more than one to two
1:16:57
Speaker 1: active things per week, you start to end up failing.
1:17:01
Speaker 2: Okay, fine.
1:17:01
Speaker 1: So with your omegas, so your omega... score at 5
1:17:06
Speaker 1: is low. You want that to be 8. But you
1:17:08
Speaker 1: probably didn't notice your mercury was right on the line
1:17:11
Speaker 1: of high as well. Those things will typically track. The
1:17:14
Speaker 1: more omega-3s you consume, the more mercury goes up.
1:17:18
Speaker 2: Oh, really?
1:17:19
Speaker 1: Because most omega-3 sources are going to be filled with mercury.
1:17:24
Speaker 2: But I was low omega and high in mercury.
1:17:26
Speaker 1: So what that tells us is if you were to
1:17:29
Speaker 1: jack your omega-3s up, your mercury is going to get
1:17:33
Speaker 1: end of the line that we don't want it to
1:17:34
Speaker 1: be in. So solution, you need to alter the source
1:17:40
Speaker 1: of your omega-3s. Get it from a higher quality place.
1:17:42
Speaker 1: So I'm not sure where you were getting them from there.
1:17:44
Speaker 2: All over the place.
1:17:45
Speaker 1: Yeah. But you would want to either choose your supplement
1:17:48
Speaker 1: more carefully or choose better quality foods.
1:17:52
Speaker 2: What actually moves the needle on this subject of energy,
1:17:54
Speaker 2: which is what we're talking about here? Is there anything
1:17:56
Speaker 2: that is more consequential as it relates to these people
1:17:59
Speaker 2: that are trying to get more energy in their life.
1:18:02
Speaker 2: They feel lethargic. We talked about sleep as being a
1:18:04
Speaker 2: real foundation here.
1:18:05
Speaker 1: If you're looking for more energy, I would divide everything
1:18:07
Speaker 1: into two buckets, hidden stressors and visible stressors. Visible stressors
1:18:12
Speaker 1: are things like you're not exercising. We know from excellent databases,
1:18:18
Speaker 1: physical exercise enhances energy.
1:18:21
Speaker 2: Why and how?
1:18:22
Speaker 1: Mitochondrial health is one of the many aspects of it.
1:18:25
Speaker 2: You'll have more mitochondria. If you exercise more?
1:18:29
Speaker 1: Generally. Not only will you have more, they'll be larger
1:18:31
Speaker 1: and they'll be healthier.
1:18:32
Speaker 2: And mitochondria basically process your energy. So you get more
1:18:35
Speaker 2: efficient energy production.
1:18:36
Speaker 1: They're one of the ways you can make it. You
1:18:38
Speaker 1: can make energy a lot of different ways. It is
1:18:40
Speaker 1: the end path of all aerobic exercise. So in other words,
1:18:43
Speaker 1: anytime you're using oxygen as a byproduct to make fuel,
1:18:47
Speaker 1: mitochondria have to be there. So it is central and
1:18:49
Speaker 1: core to that. But it is more than mitochondria. You'll
1:18:53
Speaker 1: have more total blood.
1:18:54
Speaker 2: If you exercise? Yes.
1:18:56
Speaker 1: It's one of the primary adaptations to endurance is you'll
1:18:59
Speaker 1: physically have more blood in your body.
1:19:00
Speaker 2: And that will mean?
1:19:01
Speaker 1: You carry more oxygen.
1:19:03
Speaker 2: Oh, okay.
1:19:03
Speaker 1: You have more red blood cells. So you're able to
1:19:06
Speaker 1: carry more oxygen to fuel your... Those are mitochondria.
1:19:09
Speaker 2: Is that a certain type of exercise that gives you
1:19:11
Speaker 2: more blood?
1:19:11
Speaker 1: Generally, anything that demands blood flow will increase blood supply.
1:19:17
Speaker 2: Cardiovascular exercise?
1:19:18
Speaker 1: Can be. Can be anything.
1:19:19
Speaker 2: Okay.
1:19:20
Speaker 1: Stress equals adaptation. Meaning if you put a demand on
1:19:23
Speaker 1: your heart to pump more blood, it'll get better at
1:19:25
Speaker 1: pumping more blood. If you put a demand on bone
1:19:27
Speaker 1: to resist tension, it'll get better at resisting tension. You
1:19:31
Speaker 1: run the whole cascade of connective tissue to cellular health.
1:19:37
Speaker 1: It is simply... It was called the said principle, S-A-I-D,
1:19:40
Speaker 1: specific adaptation to impose demand.
1:19:43
Speaker 2: And also, is it fair to say then, if we
1:19:45
Speaker 2: take the word exercise out of the traditional definition, which
1:19:48
Speaker 2: is like in a gym doing a thing, and we
1:19:50
Speaker 2: broaden it to work or just, you know, cognitive performance?
1:19:55
Speaker 1: Remember, exercise is a novel made up term. This is
1:20:00
Speaker 1: a new thing to us. Historically, humans have carried, have sprinted,
1:20:03
Speaker 1: have jumped, have climbed, have grappled, have done all those things.
1:20:07
Speaker 1: Putting that into a structured non-daily activity is a last
1:20:12
Speaker 1: 75-year phenomenon, right? It wasn't actually until we started to
1:20:15
Speaker 1: realize that stress reduction to the end of the limit
1:20:19
Speaker 1: is a bad thing. And then we had to recreate
1:20:21
Speaker 1: stress into our lives. One form of that was we
1:20:23
Speaker 1: call that exercise. So yes, if you think about exercise
1:20:28
Speaker 1: as either running, cycling, swimming, or lifting weights, you have
1:20:32
Speaker 1: left a bunch on the table. I don't care how
1:20:35
Speaker 1: you're challenging yourself, even if that structured exercise in your
1:20:38
Speaker 1: example is more vocationally based. It's the stress being provided
1:20:43
Speaker 1: to the system. And so when you start to look
1:20:44
Speaker 1: at things like what's the best exercise protocol for A, B,
1:20:47
Speaker 1: and C, one of the things you start to realize
1:20:48
Speaker 1: is all of them can have equal responses given a
1:20:53
Speaker 1: few constraints. And if they hit that constraint, they work.
1:20:57
Speaker 1: So if you have a movement practice, you skateboard, you
1:21:00
Speaker 1: play pickle, you walk, you garden, fine. All those can
1:21:04
Speaker 1: have equal clinical outcomes, mortality, joint pain, body composition, because
1:21:10
Speaker 1: they're getting to the same spot.
1:21:12
Speaker 2: Does this make sense then? So if I'm at, say
1:21:14
Speaker 2: I'm a podcaster and I want to have more energy
1:21:16
Speaker 2: to podcast, I should podcast more.
1:21:19
Speaker 1: Yeah. You'll be more resilient to it, right?
1:21:20
Speaker 2: Okay. So you could apply that to sort of any
1:21:22
Speaker 2: vocation or activity. If I want to have more energy
1:21:25
Speaker 2: to lift my kids up and run with them in
1:21:29
Speaker 2: the garden, then I should lift things and run with them.
1:21:33
Speaker 1: Stress inoculation.
1:21:33
Speaker 2: And then in the future, my body will adapt and
1:21:35
Speaker 2: it will give me more energy for that particular activity.
1:21:38
Speaker 2: So sometimes when people say they don't have energy for
1:21:40
Speaker 2: a thing, it's because they haven't challenged themselves in that
1:21:43
Speaker 2: particular activity enough to expand and adapt.
1:21:47
Speaker 1: It's really difficult, right? So if walking up the stairs
1:21:51
Speaker 1: is a VO2 max test for you, how likely are
1:21:54
Speaker 1: you to walk upstairs? Oh, okay.
1:21:56
Speaker 2: So it's like a downward spiral.
1:21:58
Speaker 1: Too difficult, right? So then what happens?
1:21:59
Speaker 2: You don't do it.
1:22:00
Speaker 1: And you get able to do it, right?
1:22:03
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:22:03
Speaker 1: So when we started thinking about energy and I started
1:22:05
Speaker 1: talking about like hidden visible stressors, right? I'm looking for constraints.
1:22:10
Speaker 1: Do you have an undiagnosed pathogen in your body? We
1:22:13
Speaker 1: have a major league baseball player felt horrific. I'm talking
1:22:18
Speaker 1: like can't make it through a baseball game. Legs are shot.
1:22:21
Speaker 1: No energy whatsoever. In his particular case, we were able
1:22:26
Speaker 1: to confirm in his blood, in his physical bedroom. And
1:22:30
Speaker 1: with a bunch of other tests for actually you test
1:22:33
Speaker 1: his eyes and you test a bunch of other stuff.
1:22:35
Speaker 1: He had a very gnarly exposure to mold.
1:22:38
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
1:22:39
Speaker 1: All we had to do in large part was get
1:22:42
Speaker 1: that cleared and his energy came back. That's an example
1:22:45
Speaker 1: of a hidden stressor. But one of the things we're
1:22:46
Speaker 1: always looking for is are you an energy toxicity? Meaning
1:22:49
Speaker 1: are you eating too many calories, which is not the
1:22:52
Speaker 1: same as being obese? Or are you in low energy availability?
1:22:56
Speaker 1: You're sleeping fine, but you're of low energy. Are you
1:23:00
Speaker 1: eating enough calories? Oh, you're not. Like we have to
1:23:02
Speaker 1: go no further on this train. You are under fueled
1:23:05
Speaker 1: for what you're asking. So there's things that are hidden
1:23:08
Speaker 1: stressors like that. There are visible stressors, which we just
1:23:11
Speaker 1: talked about. Like you're not actually doing the thing. Another
1:23:13
Speaker 1: easy way to explain this is cognitively. If you want
1:23:17
Speaker 1: to write a book and you don't currently write and
1:23:21
Speaker 1: you sit down to write, it's going to be exhausting.
1:23:24
Speaker 1: And then you talk to a writer and there's like,
1:23:25
Speaker 1: oh yeah, like I need 45 minutes so I can
1:23:27
Speaker 1: crank out a thousand words. It's like not exhausting at all.
1:23:30
Speaker 3: Right.
1:23:31
Speaker 1: Stress inoculation is exactly what you said before. You can
1:23:34
Speaker 1: build up endurance in those things by them.
1:23:37
Speaker 2: This is one of the things I've learned from this
1:23:39
Speaker 2: podcast and meeting all these exceptional people is this like
1:23:42
Speaker 2: use it or lose it principle.
1:23:43
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
1:23:44
Speaker 2: You know, because I'm getting older and you start to
1:23:46
Speaker 2: feel the odd pain, you know, and so you start
1:23:48
Speaker 2: to like not use that part, you know, your back,
1:23:51
Speaker 2: for example.
1:23:52
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:23:52
Speaker 2: Or bending down. And so you find ways to not
1:23:55
Speaker 2: bend down properly so you can avoid the pain. And
1:23:58
Speaker 2: what's happening there is because something is difficult, you do
1:24:00
Speaker 2: it less, which then means it becomes more difficult. So
1:24:03
Speaker 2: you do it less. And there's this downward feedback loop
1:24:06
Speaker 2: to decline. Atrophy leads to atrophy.
1:24:08
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:24:09
Speaker 2: And like, you know, I think the critical idea that
1:24:11
Speaker 2: got in my head a couple of years ago from
1:24:13
Speaker 2: someone else interviewing on the podcast was that aging isn't
1:24:17
Speaker 2: always the excuse. And I think we assume it's just aging.
1:24:20
Speaker 2: So we accept it and we don't fight back. When
1:24:23
Speaker 2: I sat here with one of the exceptional PhDs that
1:24:26
Speaker 2: I interviewed, she showed me, I think it was a
1:24:28
Speaker 2: DEXA scan of a 70-year-old. It was like a pentathlete.
1:24:32
Speaker 2: And then a DEXA scan of someone that was like
1:24:34
Speaker 2: 30 years old. And this 70-year-old was just phenomenal. Their
1:24:40
Speaker 2: sort of bone, their muscle, et cetera. And she basically
1:24:42
Speaker 2: proved to me, I'll put up the scan on the screen.
1:24:43
Speaker 2: It really is a mind-blowing scan. I've actually sent it
1:24:45
Speaker 2: to my best friends because it really did. I couldn't
1:24:48
Speaker 2: get this idea out of my head that I actually
1:24:49
Speaker 2: don't accept everything as an aging problem because the minute
1:24:51
Speaker 2: you do, you go on this downward cycle. And it
1:24:54
Speaker 2: blew my mind. And that was such an important idea
1:24:56
Speaker 2: to get in my head at my age, at 30
1:24:57
Speaker 2: years old. So when I feel like a pain in
1:24:59
Speaker 2: my back, my solution isn't, okay, Steven, you're getting older.
1:25:03
Speaker 2: Stop bending down and protect the pain. It is go
1:25:06
Speaker 2: to the gym and start squatting and bending, et cetera.
1:25:09
Speaker 1: There are some things that will go down with age.
1:25:12
Speaker 1: Sleep is actually one of them. We typically just see
1:25:14
Speaker 1: you will sleep a little bit less as you age. Fine.
1:25:17
Speaker 1: There are some aspects of that, but I think you
1:25:19
Speaker 1: can resist and fight as much of that as possible.
1:25:21
Speaker 1: This is actually... You're seeing a turning of the tide
1:25:24
Speaker 1: right now that's just starting to emerge with longevity. Longevity
1:25:28
Speaker 1: is currently being positioned as this anti-aging phenomenon. And people
1:25:34
Speaker 1: are already bored. It's like, is your goal to just
1:25:37
Speaker 1: not age? Or is your goal to dunk a basketball
1:25:41
Speaker 1: at 70? Do you want to have the 4x4 truck
1:25:45
Speaker 1: that has the best off-road package ever and it stays
1:25:48
Speaker 1: in your garage? Probably not. right? Like you want to
1:25:52
Speaker 1: be able to be like, no, you, you want to
1:25:54
Speaker 1: live because you want to experience life. And so then
1:25:59
Speaker 1: you want to be able to take advantage of those
1:26:01
Speaker 1: capacities and functionality.
1:26:03
Speaker 3: Yeah.
1:26:03
Speaker 2: Someone said to me, you want to extend your health span,
1:26:05
Speaker 2: not necessarily your lifespan. It's not health span though.
1:26:07
Speaker 1: Oh, really? No, that's what I'm, that's what I'm pushing
1:26:09
Speaker 1: back on. Health span.
1:26:10
Speaker 2: Cool.
1:26:11
Speaker 1: I mean, lifespan.
1:26:12
Speaker 2: Fine.
1:26:12
Speaker 1: Great. We're all past that health span though, is still like,
1:26:14
Speaker 1: I don't want to be in pain. I don't want
1:26:17
Speaker 1: to be, I'm saying performance span. I'm saying, I want
1:26:20
Speaker 1: you to be focused on having the most skill. I
1:26:24
Speaker 1: want you to just be crushing cognitively. I want you
1:26:28
Speaker 1: to be able to do anything you want physically for
1:26:30
Speaker 1: as long as we possibly can. And not just being like, well,
1:26:33
Speaker 1: that's going to go away. Let's just stay alive and
1:26:35
Speaker 1: be out of pain. I want you to be thinking about, no,
1:26:38
Speaker 1: like I'm going to be doing awesome stuff in whatever
1:26:41
Speaker 1: venue you like to do it in for as long
1:26:44
Speaker 1: as you possibly can.
1:26:44
Speaker 2: I think people want both.
1:26:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course.
1:26:46
Speaker 3: Yeah.
1:26:47
Speaker 1: But let's just not leave that into the table off
1:26:50
Speaker 1: and assume the performance has to go away.
1:26:54
Speaker 2: So on this point of energy, then, I think we've
1:26:55
Speaker 2: covered a lot of it and given me some sort
1:26:57
Speaker 2: of like really actionable principles there for how to have
1:27:01
Speaker 2: more energy. I do notice, I have to say, because
1:27:03
Speaker 2: I travel quite a lot. And so on occasion, my
1:27:06
Speaker 2: gym routine will be impacted. And there's quite a clear
1:27:10
Speaker 2: correlation for me between the amount of times I've gone
1:27:12
Speaker 2: to the gym in previous weeks.
1:27:14
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:27:15
Speaker 2: And how i feel in terms of energy today i
1:27:17
Speaker 2: was thinking about this this morning we're in new york
1:27:18
Speaker 2: here and over the last couple of weeks i've probably
1:27:21
Speaker 2: been going to the gym like three or four like
1:27:23
Speaker 2: three times a week if i'm being honest whereas usually
1:27:26
Speaker 2: i'd go almost every day and i have felt a
1:27:29
Speaker 2: difference in my energy and i wasn't sure if that
1:27:30
Speaker 2: was just like psychological or if that was supported by science.
1:27:33
Speaker 1: Both if you go and do a a moderate to
1:27:36
Speaker 1: to light lower intensity exercise session those are generally going
1:27:40
Speaker 1: to provide energy if you're like no i did a
1:27:43
Speaker 1: like to the death training. I pegged it. I went
1:27:45
Speaker 1: all the way, whatever that is with your lifting weights, intensity,
1:27:47
Speaker 1: whether you're getting heart rate all the way up, then
1:27:50
Speaker 1: you might walk out of those and be like, Whoa,
1:27:52
Speaker 1: I'm exhausted. But on aggregate, those will provide more daily energy.
1:27:57
Speaker 1: If you're traveling sick, super busy, do the former, like
1:28:02
Speaker 1: just get in some motion. You'll feel better. You'll get
1:28:04
Speaker 1: a sweat in there. If you're healthy and looking for
1:28:07
Speaker 1: long-term adaptation, then that's when you can start to push
1:28:09
Speaker 1: the pace on the training.
1:28:12
Speaker 2: I want to speak to the business owners listening and
1:28:14
Speaker 2: watching right now. I know what it's like to be
1:28:16
Speaker 2: personally responsible for every decision. I founded my first company
1:28:19
Speaker 2: at 21 years old, and honestly, the pressure can be immense.
1:28:22
Speaker 2: It's the kind of mental load that takes its toll
1:28:25
Speaker 2: below the surface. I recently did some tests through our sponsor, Function,
1:28:28
Speaker 2: which got me thinking about that invisible impact. I found
1:28:31
Speaker 2: that I had low levels of omega-3s. I had deficient
1:28:35
Speaker 2: levels of vitamin D, probably because I sit inside this
1:28:39
Speaker 2: dark room all day. And that has totally changed how
1:28:42
Speaker 2: I construct my day going forward. I get up in
1:28:43
Speaker 2: the morning and the first thing I now do is
1:28:45
Speaker 2: I go for a walk outside in the sunshine, in
1:28:47
Speaker 2: part to help my vitamin D levels increase, but also
1:28:49
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1:29:30
Speaker 2: Speaking of training, you know what this is, don't you?
1:29:32
Speaker 3: Sure.
1:29:33
Speaker 2: This is a grip strength machine.
1:29:36
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:29:36
Speaker 2: A lot of people told me that grip strength is
1:29:39
Speaker 2: the single biggest predictor of... I think they said like
1:29:42
Speaker 2: longevity and stuff like that.
1:29:44
Speaker 1: I wouldn't call it the number one predictor of mortality.
1:29:46
Speaker 1: It is a really nice scientific test. Late 1980s, Stephen
1:29:51
Speaker 1: Blair and his team started looking at giant databases and
1:29:55
Speaker 1: started to realize that cardiovascular fitness, VO2 max, VO2 peak,
1:29:59
Speaker 1: things like this, were predicting how long people are going
1:30:02
Speaker 1: to live. And in fact, they started to realize it
1:30:05
Speaker 1: was out predicting what we call traditional clinical markers, blood pressure,
1:30:09
Speaker 1: your cholesterol levels, things like that. And this launched an
1:30:12
Speaker 1: entire 45-year field that we're in now, which is like,
1:30:17
Speaker 1: wait a minute. These performance-based markers are actually predicting health
1:30:22
Speaker 1: more than these indirect markers. The unfortunate problem is that
1:30:26
Speaker 1: got taken too far. And so when you hear things
1:30:31
Speaker 1: like people, and my colleagues have been on your show
1:30:33
Speaker 1: and said things like, oh, grip strength is an important
1:30:35
Speaker 1: predictor of mortality. It's good.
1:30:36
Speaker 2: It's great.
1:30:36
Speaker 1: It's an important message. But we have to be careful
1:30:39
Speaker 1: in being lost. And what that means. Getting a grip
1:30:42
Speaker 1: strength device like that, which is probably under $ 40, is amazing.
1:30:47
Speaker 1: And what you will see consistently is those people that
1:30:49
Speaker 1: are really, really, really weak are in worse health on average.
1:30:54
Speaker 1: Where we become false is saying, okay, therefore, you need
1:30:57
Speaker 1: to alter your lifestyle to maximize grip strength.
1:31:00
Speaker 2: I did do my grip strength results, actually.
1:31:03
Speaker 1: Do you remember how they were?
1:31:04
Speaker 2: It was good. It was high.
1:31:06
Speaker 1: You know what that tells me about your health?
1:31:08
Speaker 2: What? Nothing.
1:31:10
Speaker 1: Why wouldn't it be high? You're young, you're fit. I
1:31:12
Speaker 1: have all those other markers. It's not going to tell
1:31:13
Speaker 1: us anything. You know, and these things are really powerful.
1:31:15
Speaker 1: Somebody who doesn't have blood work or doesn't have a
1:31:18
Speaker 1: body composition test or doesn't have anything else, it can
1:31:21
Speaker 1: give us a crude strength or a crude metric and
1:31:25
Speaker 1: say this person's probably at a health risk.
1:31:28
Speaker 2: So I've always been quite confused by this because is
1:31:31
Speaker 2: grip strength a proxy for my overall strength of my
1:31:35
Speaker 2: entire body? And therefore it's just indicating that my overall
1:31:38
Speaker 2: strength is low or is it Actually, like my arm.
1:31:41
Speaker 1: It's both.
1:31:42
Speaker 2: Oh, okay.
1:31:43
Speaker 3: It's both.
1:31:43
Speaker 1: Here's why. You know what you're really testing right there?
1:31:45
Speaker 2: What's that?
1:31:46
Speaker 1: Your nervous system.
1:31:48
Speaker 2: Oh, really?
1:31:48
Speaker 1: You're testing your brain.
1:31:50
Speaker 2: So you're not testing your strength as much.
1:31:51
Speaker 3: You are.
1:31:52
Speaker 2: But it's both.
1:31:53
Speaker 1: There's an overlap. That's why your grip strength, does it
1:31:56
Speaker 1: indicate general poor health?
1:31:57
Speaker 3: Yes.
1:31:58
Speaker 1: That's the value. Does it tell you anything directly about your,
1:32:03
Speaker 1: it can. And so this is when you see two
1:32:05
Speaker 1: camps here. So camp one is like, great, I'm going
1:32:08
Speaker 1: to open up a gym down the street. And it's
1:32:10
Speaker 1: going to test your grip strength. And then we're going
1:32:12
Speaker 1: to focus all of your training on grip strength training.
1:32:14
Speaker 1: That is, we've exaggerated the point. The other camp is
1:32:17
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. It's all indirect. That's not true either.
1:32:20
Speaker 1: It is an actionable, useful thing. What you don't need
1:32:22
Speaker 1: to worry about is optimizing it, maximizing it. Like if
1:32:25
Speaker 1: you're in the 80th percentile, going to the 90th percentile
1:32:28
Speaker 1: probably doesn't make you live a day longer. Over the
1:32:30
Speaker 1: last probably three years, I would imagine there's over 20
1:32:34
Speaker 1: to 25 studies that have been published on a very
1:32:36
Speaker 1: specific type of grip strength. And that's grip strength asymmetry.
1:32:41
Speaker 1: Do you know why that matters?
1:32:42
Speaker 2: I don't, but I know that I'm stronger on my
1:32:44
Speaker 2: left side than my right.
1:32:45
Speaker 1: It's not uncommon. Typically, your force-dependent limb is not your
1:32:50
Speaker 1: neural control limb. So you write right-handed because you have
1:32:52
Speaker 1: to have fine motor control. Gross strength can be in
1:32:56
Speaker 1: the opposite side. I'll go like this.
1:32:58
Speaker 2: Keep it in here.
1:32:59
Speaker 1: Don't touch your arm to the table at all.
1:33:01
Speaker 2: Keep it 90 degrees like that.
1:33:02
Speaker 1: And then you're just going to squeeze one good effort
1:33:06
Speaker 1: as hard as you can.
1:33:06
Speaker 2: All right, don't blow out now. All right, let's see. Gosh,
1:33:12
Speaker 2: my head nearly exploded. 130.
1:33:16
Speaker 1: So you're above average.
1:33:18
Speaker 2: Can I try this side as well? Yeah, go ahead.
1:33:21
Speaker 2: This is my weaker. All right, here we go. My
1:33:23
Speaker 2: weaker hand.
1:33:24
Speaker 1: All right.
1:33:25
Speaker 2: You got to beat it though now. Gosh, it's a
1:33:28
Speaker 2: bit slippery. I think you did. Did I beat it?
1:33:32
Speaker 1: Oh, my God. Wow.
1:33:33
Speaker 2: 160.
1:33:34
Speaker 1: You're joking.
1:33:35
Speaker 2: 160. What the? I'm crushing it. Wow. 130 on that side.
1:33:43
Speaker 2: And your left side? Let's see. 110.
1:33:52
Speaker 1: Crushing, man. That's really good.
1:33:54
Speaker 2: But what it taught me is that it doesn't correlate
1:33:56
Speaker 2: to overall strength because Jeff is definitely stronger than me.
1:33:58
Speaker 2: For sure.
1:33:58
Speaker 1: For sure. Yeah. I mean, it's a very specific type
1:34:00
Speaker 1: of strength, right? So the asymmetry actually matters because most
1:34:04
Speaker 1: of the work in that area is in groups with
1:34:06
Speaker 1: neurological disease. So you're trying to look at early predictions
1:34:09
Speaker 1: of Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, and things like that. Which ties into
1:34:12
Speaker 1: my earlier point is it is not simply an overall
1:34:15
Speaker 1: proxy of your health. It can tell us direct things
1:34:18
Speaker 1: like nerve denervation and overall neurological health. So to me,
1:34:24
Speaker 1: it's a great tool. But what we don't want to
1:34:26
Speaker 1: do then is optimize for that.
1:34:30
Speaker 2: What is a better marker of my overall health?
1:34:32
Speaker 1: There's not a single marker that will tell you everything.
1:34:35
Speaker 2: What about muscle power?
1:34:36
Speaker 1: Muscle power is great as well.
1:34:38
Speaker 2: What is that?
1:34:38
Speaker 1: Power is defined as force multiplied by velocity.
1:34:41
Speaker 2: So like? If I throw this, do you want to
1:34:46
Speaker 2: throw it? Go ahead.
1:34:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, great.
1:34:50
Speaker 2: Is that muscle power?
1:34:52
Speaker 1: That wasn't much power because you did it slow. So
1:34:56
Speaker 1: think about it this way. This is 12 kilos, right?
1:35:00
Speaker 1: 12 kilos, I don't know, pounds, kilos. That is mass. Kilos,
1:35:05
Speaker 1: pounds is a unit of mass. Force, that's what you
1:35:08
Speaker 1: think when you think of strength. That's force. Force is
1:35:11
Speaker 1: defined as F equals MA. It's mass times acceleration.
1:35:14
Speaker 2: It's force. Okay.
1:35:15
Speaker 1: So it's the mass multiplied by how well you can
1:35:18
Speaker 1: accelerate it. Power is your force multiplied by your velocity.
1:35:23
Speaker 1: So here's the difference. If I were to take this
1:35:25
Speaker 1: 12 pounds of mass or 12 kilos and hand it
1:35:28
Speaker 1: to you slowly.
1:35:29
Speaker 2: Okay.
1:35:31
Speaker 1: That is an expression of 12 pounds of force. That's
1:35:33
Speaker 1: how I think about it. Now, if you hand it
1:35:35
Speaker 1: back to me in the exact same speed, that is
1:35:37
Speaker 1: the same amount of newtons of force. How I create
1:35:40
Speaker 1: power is now I do that same thing with speed. Ready?
1:35:44
Speaker 1: So there are two ways you can get more powerful.
1:35:47
Speaker 1: More force, more velocity. You would use an implement like
1:35:51
Speaker 1: that because you're trying to say, give me a little
1:35:52
Speaker 1: bit of mass, but you can obviously lift more than
1:35:55
Speaker 1: 12 kilos. But now I'm going to emphasize the velocity
1:35:59
Speaker 1: and the spectrum. Where people make the mistake in training
1:36:02
Speaker 1: for power is if you go slow, the mass is
1:36:04
Speaker 1: too light to do anything. So you don't get stronger
1:36:07
Speaker 1: and you don't, get faster. Why this matters in the
1:36:10
Speaker 1: current conversation is you see power and what some people
1:36:16
Speaker 1: will call things like powerpenia. So the term that we've
1:36:21
Speaker 1: been using for a long time is sarcopenia, and this
1:36:23
Speaker 1: is the accelerated loss of muscle and probably muscle strength
1:36:27
Speaker 1: with aging. You're going to drop some, but sarcopenia is
1:36:30
Speaker 1: are you dropping faster than you should? And now there's
1:36:34
Speaker 1: a turn of scientific attention to powerpenia, which is are
1:36:36
Speaker 1: you losing the power faster than you should be losing power.
1:36:41
Speaker 1: That matters because it is everything from prevention of fall,
1:36:45
Speaker 1: catching yourself when you slip, to be able to move
1:36:48
Speaker 1: and accelerate quickly. And you see that stuff highly associated
1:36:51
Speaker 1: with breaking of bones, fractures, dislocations, which are incredibly impactful
1:37:00
Speaker 1: to health, especially post age 60 or 65.
1:37:03
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people listening, and me too,
1:37:08
Speaker 2: So I guess one of the questions we have as
1:37:10
Speaker 2: it relates to the gym and working out is we
1:37:12
Speaker 2: often think that in order to get better results in
1:37:15
Speaker 2: the gym, and you can define that however you want to,
1:37:17
Speaker 2: fat loss, muscle gain, whatever, strength, we need to go
1:37:20
Speaker 2: more often. And I was curious, someone who spends so
1:37:25
Speaker 2: long with athletes, is that a bit of a myth?
1:37:28
Speaker 2: Because even me, I'm thinking, well, if I want better
1:37:30
Speaker 2: results in the gym, I probably just need to, I'm
1:37:33
Speaker 2: currently going three or four days a week. I need
1:37:34
Speaker 2: to go back to going six or seven days a
1:37:36
Speaker 2: week to get better results.
1:37:37
Speaker 1: You could go either way. It is generally true that
1:37:41
Speaker 1: if you train more, you give yourself more opportunity to
1:37:44
Speaker 1: create stress, which is more opportunity to create adaptation. But
1:37:48
Speaker 1: that said, depending on the marker, the answer here could
1:37:51
Speaker 1: range from yes to no. Let's use muscle growth as
1:37:54
Speaker 1: an example. As long as you hit the same volume
1:37:59
Speaker 1: throughout the week, the amount of times you go to
1:38:02
Speaker 1: the gym doesn't matter that much in theory. volume how
1:38:06
Speaker 1: much load did you lift how many times.
1:38:10
Speaker 2: Does time period matter i if i lifted four weights
1:38:14
Speaker 2: in one hour versus lifting four weights in 20 minutes.
1:38:17
Speaker 1: Nope because now all you've changed is really the rest
1:38:20
Speaker 1: in between yeah does that matter it does in the
1:38:22
Speaker 1: sense that if you take a short rest interval and
1:38:26
Speaker 1: that leads to excessive fatigue accumulation and then that compromises
1:38:31
Speaker 1: how heavy you can lift or how many reps you
1:38:33
Speaker 1: can do or how many sets you can do that
1:38:35
Speaker 1: will have compromised your volume wait.
1:38:37
Speaker 2: So because everyone talks about taking shorter rests in the
1:38:40
Speaker 2: gym to build more muscles.
1:38:43
Speaker 1: Not consistent with the evidence really yep but this is
1:38:46
Speaker 1: this is the game you're playing at all times right
1:38:49
Speaker 1: Who has the time to wait two and a half
1:38:51
Speaker 1: minutes between every set? You're going to be in the
1:38:53
Speaker 1: gym for an hour and a half.
1:38:54
Speaker 2: A lot of people are on their phones.
1:38:56
Speaker 1: Totally. And then because of that, they're like, I got
1:38:58
Speaker 1: to get out of here. So they do half the
1:39:00
Speaker 1: amount of stuff they leave because they're out of time.
1:39:03
Speaker 1: So the battle is in an isolated world, if you
1:39:08
Speaker 1: were to probably spend 60 to 90 seconds or maybe
1:39:11
Speaker 1: up to two minutes resting in between each set, generally
1:39:14
Speaker 1: you recover enough to have a higher quality set the
1:39:17
Speaker 1: next one.
1:39:18
Speaker 2: So is that the most important thing to be optimizing
1:39:19
Speaker 2: for is the high, making sure the next rep you
1:39:22
Speaker 2: do is high quality?
1:39:23
Speaker 1: In my world, quality is always number one.
1:39:26
Speaker 2: So you're saying take a bigger break as long as
1:39:28
Speaker 2: you can recover and are more strong for the next rep?
1:39:33
Speaker 1: As long as it doesn't put you in a position
1:39:35
Speaker 1: where you're in the gym so long that you won't
1:39:38
Speaker 1: do all the stuff you need to do.
1:39:40
Speaker 2: But in a world where you had unlimited time, really? Generally.
1:39:43
Speaker 1: Depends on what adaptation we're working for. If we're working
1:39:45
Speaker 1: on endurance, then we don't necessarily have to do that.
1:39:48
Speaker 1: But if we're working on speed or skill or flexibility
1:39:52
Speaker 1: or balance or muscle growth or fat loss, now we
1:39:55
Speaker 1: have options. So depending on the outcome you're looking for,
1:39:57
Speaker 1: you have tools. I think the biggest point we want
1:39:59
Speaker 1: to make here is where the field struggles right now
1:40:04
Speaker 1: is making a little bit of information get in the
1:40:07
Speaker 1: way of motivation. If you're going to the gym three
1:40:12
Speaker 1: days a week, I'm clapping.
1:40:15
Speaker 2: Done.
1:40:16
Speaker 1: Like we're winning. I don't want you to hear messages
1:40:19
Speaker 1: and go, oh, I'm doing it all wrong. I'm not
1:40:21
Speaker 1: going to get any results. I'm tanking my metabolism. I'm
1:40:25
Speaker 1: breaking my hormones. That's the shit that drives us nuts.
1:40:29
Speaker 1: You're motivated. It's hard enough to get to the gym.
1:40:32
Speaker 1: And when you get there to try really hard, we've
1:40:35
Speaker 1: gotten over the hill. Now, if you're past that point,
1:40:37
Speaker 1: we could start tinkering with some things, but I hate
1:40:39
Speaker 1: it when people leave conversations like this and go, oh,
1:40:41
Speaker 1: did you know that if you don't rest more than
1:40:44
Speaker 1: 60 seconds that you're not getting anything? That's not true.
1:40:48
Speaker 1: So we can get like upgrades, but in general, I
1:40:52
Speaker 1: think most people quality should be the biggest thing you
1:40:56
Speaker 1: pay attention to because this is going to reduce your
1:40:58
Speaker 1: likelihood of injury. And there's even evidence that whether you're
1:41:02
Speaker 1: trying to get stronger or grow muscle, the quality of
1:41:06
Speaker 1: the repetition as defined by your technique, as defined by
1:41:11
Speaker 1: your range of motion, as defined by your intent, as
1:41:14
Speaker 1: defined by what we call your mind muscle connection, So
1:41:17
Speaker 1: like if you're trying to contract your shoulder, are you
1:41:20
Speaker 1: really contracting your shoulder? Like all these things start to matter.
1:41:23
Speaker 1: And so what you'll see happen is you can get
1:41:26
Speaker 1: more results with less work and shorter time because each
1:41:31
Speaker 1: individual repetition is of a higher quality and a more
1:41:35
Speaker 1: focused intent.
1:41:36
Speaker 2: I mean, this might be a good time to just
1:41:38
Speaker 2: quickly take a, I mean, everyone's talking about creatine at
1:41:41
Speaker 2: the bloody moment. Do you have your athletes taking it? Yeah,
1:41:44
Speaker 2: of course. You do?
1:41:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, everybody.
1:41:46
Speaker 2: Do you take it?
1:41:46
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:41:47
Speaker 2: What do you take? What's in your supplement stack?
1:41:49
Speaker 1: My personal supplement stack, same with all of our clients
1:41:53
Speaker 1: and athletes. There's two things. Correct physiology, performance enhancement. Totally
1:41:59
Speaker 1: separate categories. Correct physiological deficiencies are, in your case, your
1:42:04
Speaker 1: vitamin D. What is low? What is high? What is
1:42:07
Speaker 1: off track based on blood work, right? We try to
1:42:09
Speaker 1: solve this through food. But what this oftentimes looks like
1:42:12
Speaker 1: is a high quality multivitamin, oftentimes fish oil, Now you
1:42:17
Speaker 1: have performance accelerators on the other side of that equation.
1:42:20
Speaker 1: This is when creatine can come in. If I'm traveling,
1:42:23
Speaker 1: I'm going to take things like fiber, right? Because it's
1:42:27
Speaker 1: harder to get vegetables when you travel. You probably know this,
1:42:30
Speaker 1: but airplanes, airports, restaurants, like vegetables are nowhere to be found.
1:42:34
Speaker 1: And so I know those are going to be struggle.
1:42:37
Speaker 1: I'm going to take fiber there, or I'm generally not
1:42:39
Speaker 1: taking it as much when I'm home because I can
1:42:40
Speaker 1: control my diet. Performance enhancers are things like creatine, are
1:42:45
Speaker 1: things like beta alanine. sodium bicarbonate. So depending on what
1:42:49
Speaker 1: fitness training goal I have at the moment, I'm going
1:42:51
Speaker 1: to alter those based on if I'm looking for muscle
1:42:53
Speaker 1: growth or endurance or.
1:42:54
Speaker 2: What are you taking right now? Zero.
1:42:57
Speaker 1: Zero.
1:42:57
Speaker 2: Vitamin D? Like this week?
1:42:59
Speaker 1: No.
1:43:00
Speaker 3: No.
1:43:00
Speaker 1: Summertime. I live in the forest.
1:43:03
Speaker 2: Omega-3?
1:43:04
Speaker 1: Nope.
1:43:06
Speaker 2: Why?
1:43:06
Speaker 1: I got full control of my diet and we get
1:43:08
Speaker 1: a lot of fish right now. So we are good there.
1:43:11
Speaker 1: I also have, I'm fortunate. I get to harvest my
1:43:14
Speaker 1: own meat. And one of the things you'll see pretty
1:43:17
Speaker 1: consistently is even in red meat sources, they're higher in
1:43:21
Speaker 1: a lot of nutrients, wild-caught versus animal-caught. So we're in
1:43:25
Speaker 1: a pretty good. Plus, I have my blood work. I
1:43:28
Speaker 1: know where my omega-3 numbers are, so I'm going to
1:43:30
Speaker 1: get there. If I don't have to take those things,
1:43:32
Speaker 1: I don't.
1:43:32
Speaker 2: A lot of people, I imagine, come to you with
1:43:34
Speaker 2: weight loss goals, whether they're trying to cut weight for
1:43:36
Speaker 2: a fight or if it's just mom and pop looking
1:43:39
Speaker 2: to lose a few pounds. What are the big misconceptions
1:43:42
Speaker 2: about weight loss?
1:43:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the magic of it.
1:43:46
Speaker 2: Right?
1:43:46
Speaker 1: It's the, there's one specific element you can't eat or
1:43:50
Speaker 1: one way you have to train or can't train. That
1:43:53
Speaker 1: is the biggest misconception around fat loss, the specificity. It
1:43:58
Speaker 1: is categorically quite simple to lose fat. It's practically hard.
1:44:05
Speaker 1: It's difficult human endeavor, but categorically, it's incredibly simple. We
1:44:08
Speaker 1: only have a few things we have to do. And
1:44:11
Speaker 1: now you have a billion choices of how to get there.
1:44:14
Speaker 1: So if you are the type of person, who struggles
1:44:17
Speaker 1: with moderation, then I'm not going to give you moderation.
1:44:22
Speaker 2: Moderation of calories?
1:44:23
Speaker 1: Could be. Or exercise. Or environment. Do you know the
1:44:28
Speaker 1: difference between baking and cooking?
1:44:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess so, conceptually.
1:44:33
Speaker 1: Baking is chemistry. You mix something together and put it
1:44:36
Speaker 1: in the oven, you can't just fake the amounts. Because
1:44:39
Speaker 1: it won't rise, it won't set, it won't do the things, right?
1:44:42
Speaker 1: If you're cooking on a stove... And you could just
1:44:46
Speaker 1: be like, okay, what's in the fridge? You can't do
1:44:50
Speaker 1: that in baking, right? Depending on what you're baking. We
1:44:53
Speaker 1: will address this fat loss problem with trying to identify,
1:44:55
Speaker 1: are you a cook or are you a baker personality type?
1:44:58
Speaker 1: Here's what I mean. If you came to me and
1:45:01
Speaker 1: we were going to help you lose some fat, you're
1:45:02
Speaker 1: already pretty lean, but let's say you wanted to just
1:45:04
Speaker 1: get super lean. All right, great. First question I would
1:45:07
Speaker 1: ask you is how do you want this to operate?
1:45:09
Speaker 1: You get one of two ways. One way, is I
1:45:14
Speaker 1: tell you exactly what to eat. You weigh and measure
1:45:16
Speaker 1: every single thing. You do not deviate. You check your
1:45:20
Speaker 1: weight every single day and you follow exactly what I
1:45:24
Speaker 1: tell you. The other option is I give you concepts.
1:45:27
Speaker 1: We have one to three rules. You're going to check
1:45:30
Speaker 1: weight maybe daily, maybe once a week. And I want
1:45:34
Speaker 1: you to stay airtight to those concepts.
1:45:36
Speaker 2: I prefer the concepts. Concepts. Great.
1:45:38
Speaker 1: Concepts are cooking.
1:45:40
Speaker 2: Okay. Baking. Baking.
1:45:43
Speaker 1: Weigh and measure everything right here's why this matters you're
1:45:47
Speaker 1: a concept kind of guy why you do not want
1:45:49
Speaker 1: to be thinking about all that little stuff because you
1:45:51
Speaker 1: have other stuff you'd rather be thinking about right it's
1:45:54
Speaker 1: great because it's freeing you know the downside is if
1:45:59
Speaker 1: you don't know exactly what's in your food and you
1:46:02
Speaker 1: don't have a really good eye and calibration someone like
1:46:05
Speaker 1: you might have a hard time losing fat because you're
1:46:07
Speaker 1: already at the end We need to be weighing that
1:46:10
Speaker 1: olive oil. We need to be measuring that rice cup.
1:46:12
Speaker 1: We can't just be like, oh, a little bit of
1:46:13
Speaker 1: rice over there, right? If you're trying to lose 100 pounds,
1:46:17
Speaker 1: we can probably eyeball a lot of things and get really,
1:46:19
Speaker 1: really far.
1:46:20
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:46:21
Speaker 1: But personality type is what I'm really getting at here, okay?
1:46:25
Speaker 1: If I gave that concept to some people listening, some
1:46:30
Speaker 1: people would be going, like, how many meals am I eating?
1:46:35
Speaker 2: Like, what's the fiber?
1:46:36
Speaker 1: Like, they want the detail, right?
1:46:37
Speaker 2: What's the concept?
1:46:39
Speaker 1: The concept could be something like, I want you eating
1:46:43
Speaker 1: fresh vegetables at every meal, and I want you to
1:46:45
Speaker 1: have a dedicated protein source every time you eat.
1:46:49
Speaker 2: Okay.
1:46:49
Speaker 1: That might be the only rule I give you.
1:46:52
Speaker 2: Could it be an eating window? Could be.
1:46:54
Speaker 1: Sure. I could say, eat whatever you want, but you're
1:46:57
Speaker 1: only going to eat between these hours. Okay. I could
1:46:59
Speaker 1: do whatever kind of one to three rules I want.
1:47:02
Speaker 1: I could say none of those things, and I'll just say,
1:47:04
Speaker 1: all right, just cut out all your junk food.
1:47:06
Speaker 2: Okay.
1:47:07
Speaker 1: I'm not going to tell you what to eat. I'm
1:47:08
Speaker 1: just going to give you a list of things not
1:47:09
Speaker 1: to eat. I could only give you, I prefer to
1:47:12
Speaker 1: do the opposite, defer to give you things rather than
1:47:14
Speaker 1: take things away because you're going to take those things away, right?
1:47:17
Speaker 1: So I could play with your meal timing. I could
1:47:19
Speaker 1: play with your meal frequency. I could play with your
1:47:21
Speaker 1: meal composition. So what types of food you're eating, the
1:47:25
Speaker 1: combinations of them. I could do anything there. And why
1:47:28
Speaker 1: all those work? Because those are simply different strategies to
1:47:32
Speaker 1: likely reduce food intake. That's all we're really doing. But
1:47:38
Speaker 1: some people hate that because it's not enough detail.
1:47:41
Speaker 2: There's no specificity.
1:47:42
Speaker 1: There's no precision. They get anxiety from guessing. I've had
1:47:45
Speaker 1: plenty of athletes before just be like, okay, but like
1:47:48
Speaker 1: six ounces of chicken or seven. And I'm like, 6.3.
1:47:51
Speaker 2: Like, okay.
1:47:52
Speaker 1: Like, who cares? Like, it doesn't matter. But they're just like,
1:47:53
Speaker 1: they want, they don't want to make any decisions. You
1:47:57
Speaker 1: have to make decisions about what you're going to eat
1:47:59
Speaker 1: because you got only on concepts. The nice part about
1:48:01
Speaker 1: the way you measure is you have no choices.
1:48:03
Speaker 2: I think the average people listening would rather have the concepts.
1:48:06
Speaker 2: Like it's much easier for me to... They're busy lives.
1:48:09
Speaker 2: They don't want to be weighing 6.3 grams of... So
1:48:12
Speaker 2: you'd be stunned.
1:48:15
Speaker 1: Most people want that. Most people want me they want
1:48:17
Speaker 1: the detail because they don't have to think they don't
1:48:20
Speaker 1: have to guess they don't have to worry they don't
1:48:21
Speaker 1: have to go god like maybe i ate too much
1:48:23
Speaker 1: today maybe i didn't.
1:48:23
Speaker 2: Whatever but that's like hard to measure.
1:48:26
Speaker 1: Super hard so here's the recommendation do the baking approach
1:48:30
Speaker 1: first for two.
1:48:31
Speaker 2: Weeks and by that you mean measure everything understand what's.
1:48:35
Speaker 1: In it 100 then you can back off And start
1:48:39
Speaker 1: to go, okay, I have a better sense of what
1:48:41
Speaker 1: a tablespoon of peanut butter looks like. I have a
1:48:43
Speaker 1: better sense of what a cup of rice is. I'm
1:48:46
Speaker 1: getting a better sense of what three ounces of this is, whatever.
1:48:50
Speaker 1: Now I can start toning things back.
1:48:52
Speaker 2: I think this is really great advice because I think
1:48:54
Speaker 2: the big shifts that I've seen in my own diet
1:48:57
Speaker 2: have been in that exact order where for one particular
1:49:00
Speaker 2: week I did, it might be calorie counting or it
1:49:02
Speaker 2: might have been some of these apps where you can
1:49:04
Speaker 2: scan the food by using the barcode. And it tells
1:49:08
Speaker 2: you what's inside there. And through that, it only took
1:49:11
Speaker 2: me a week or two to discover that the things
1:49:13
Speaker 2: I ate frequently weren't what I thought. Both in quantity,
1:49:16
Speaker 2: but also in like nutritional profile.
1:49:19
Speaker 1: I think it's super important for as many people as
1:49:22
Speaker 1: possible to spend at least a week doing that.
1:49:25
Speaker 2: And then I could make informed decisions about what I
1:49:27
Speaker 2: wanted to keep and what I actually didn't really like
1:49:29
Speaker 2: that much anyway.
1:49:30
Speaker 1: You know, I used to run this experiment in class
1:49:33
Speaker 1: every year. These are graduate students getting master's degrees in
1:49:37
Speaker 1: this particular field. And we would have them do a
1:49:39
Speaker 1: seven-day diet recall. Just measure away everything you eat for
1:49:43
Speaker 1: seven days. Consistent themes have popped up. Almost everyone ate
1:49:49
Speaker 1: way more fat than they think.
1:49:51
Speaker 2: Is that a bad thing?
1:49:52
Speaker 1: If you're eating more calories than you need.
1:49:54
Speaker 2: Oh, so calories is the problem versus fat.
1:49:56
Speaker 1: Fat's not bad for you. There's no evil foods. People
1:50:00
Speaker 1: ate way more carbohydrates than they realized. Same answer. People
1:50:05
Speaker 1: ate way less protein than I think.
1:50:06
Speaker 2: What about sugar?
1:50:08
Speaker 1: Everyone knows they're eating sugar. What they're always stunned is
1:50:10
Speaker 1: they're like, whoa, I thought I was eating a small percentage,
1:50:16
Speaker 1: you know, 20% of my calories from fat. They didn't
1:50:18
Speaker 1: realize they're at 40%.
1:50:19
Speaker 2: This is why the keto diet actually did help me
1:50:21
Speaker 2: because it forced me to check everything for a while.
1:50:24
Speaker 2: So this is great. It was really learning. It was
1:50:26
Speaker 2: learning what was in all these things that I loved
1:50:29
Speaker 2: and keto forced me, you know, The principle of a
1:50:31
Speaker 2: concept that I had when I was on keto was
1:50:33
Speaker 2: that I could have about 50 grams of carbs a day, roughly.
1:50:36
Speaker 1: Can't stay in ketogenic.
1:50:37
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:50:38
Speaker 1: Ketosis rather.
1:50:38
Speaker 2: So I would think about it like a budget. I'd
1:50:40
Speaker 2: be like, oh, I'd spend 23 grams of carbs on
1:50:44
Speaker 2: this particular thing. But to do that, I had to
1:50:46
Speaker 2: look at everything, research everything.
1:50:48
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:50:49
Speaker 2: And now I have an intuitive idea. Exactly.
1:50:50
Speaker 1: The point is simply your awareness and consciousness of what
1:50:53
Speaker 1: is actually in the elements that you want. And then
1:50:55
Speaker 1: if you want to change and tweak, you can do
1:50:57
Speaker 1: that because you know. But if you don't have the knowledge...
1:51:00
Speaker 1: You can't even play the game.
1:51:01
Speaker 2: What are the big misconceptions about exercise's role in weight loss?
1:51:05
Speaker 2: It is valuable.
1:51:06
Speaker 1: Forever, we've been telling people, burn more calories than you ingest, right?
1:51:10
Speaker 1: And then it's still true. And then we had a
1:51:12
Speaker 1: bunch of research pop out that was sort of like, hey,
1:51:15
Speaker 1: exercise is not playing the role we think it is
1:51:17
Speaker 1: in fat loss. And those data still hold true in
1:51:20
Speaker 1: the sense that you don't burn as many calories in
1:51:22
Speaker 1: your workouts as you think. Most of the time, if
1:51:24
Speaker 1: you hop on a piece of exercise equipment and it
1:51:26
Speaker 1: tells you you burned X amount of calories, you burned
1:51:29
Speaker 1: most likely significantly less than that. It's also true that
1:51:34
Speaker 1: there is places where you can get to with adaptive thermogenesis. Meaning,
1:51:39
Speaker 1: if you burn, say, 500 calories with exercise, if you
1:51:44
Speaker 1: are lean enough or non-lean enough or fit enough or
1:51:48
Speaker 1: non-fit enough, your body will change how many calories it
1:51:51
Speaker 1: burns throughout the day in response to that 500 calories
1:51:54
Speaker 1: from exercise. Meaning, you could be in a situation, theoretically,
1:51:59
Speaker 1: where you burned 500 calories in your workout, but then
1:52:03
Speaker 1: your body down-regulated your energy expenditure by three or four
1:52:08
Speaker 1: or even up to 500 calories.
1:52:10
Speaker 2: To make up for it. So it was neutral.
1:52:13
Speaker 1: When you're lean, like that can happen quite often, right?
1:52:17
Speaker 1: And so then what do you do? You pull more calories.
1:52:20
Speaker 1: You train harder. You get a more of a response.
1:52:22
Speaker 1: This is a like, oh, okay, calorie counting doesn't matter.
1:52:25
Speaker 1: Like it absolutely matters. It may not be the strategy
1:52:28
Speaker 1: you want, but it matters there. So then there was
1:52:32
Speaker 1: a big push of like exercise is playing no role
1:52:34
Speaker 1: in fat loss, which was fundamentally also not true because
1:52:38
Speaker 1: now we have meta-analyses in the recent years, as well
1:52:41
Speaker 1: as more studies showing probably the fairest way to say
1:52:44
Speaker 1: it is exercise is a fantastic way to burn some calories.
1:52:50
Speaker 1: It is not the only thing that you can do
1:52:53
Speaker 1: though to lose weight. You can handle weight loss entirely
1:52:57
Speaker 1: through nutrition if you want. That said, People who exercise
1:53:00
Speaker 1: during their weight loss journey consistently are better at keeping
1:53:04
Speaker 1: that fat off over the weeks to years at the
1:53:08
Speaker 1: end of the diet.
1:53:08
Speaker 2: You have a 5-4-3-2-1 method.
1:53:11
Speaker 1: Ah, sure. 5-4-3-2-1 was just a little thing I came
1:53:14
Speaker 1: up with that says, all right, can we help people
1:53:16
Speaker 1: with fat loss rules? Five days a week, be active. Now,
1:53:21
Speaker 1: this can be exercised. It can be walking. It can
1:53:24
Speaker 1: be your vocation. I don't really care. But what has
1:53:27
Speaker 1: to happen with fat loss is you have to be
1:53:31
Speaker 1: able to produce caloric expenditure. And you got to do
1:53:34
Speaker 1: a lot of it. This is my way of saying
1:53:37
Speaker 1: be active. And also I'm saying it's cool to take
1:53:40
Speaker 1: a rest day too. Like it's totally fine to just veg.
1:53:43
Speaker 1: You can do that. But be as active as you
1:53:45
Speaker 1: possibly can. Then from there, I want four days a
1:53:49
Speaker 1: week of structured exercise. One of these days can be
1:53:53
Speaker 1: a super hard day. It can be light. One of
1:53:56
Speaker 1: those days could be a yoga day. Like not all
1:53:59
Speaker 1: four days have to be head to the gym, volume 11,
1:54:03
Speaker 1: like train as hard as you can. But four days
1:54:06
Speaker 1: a week where I want you doing structured exercise. At
1:54:08
Speaker 1: least three days a week, I want you training hard
1:54:11
Speaker 1: enough to sweat. If you're doing all that, you're active
1:54:14
Speaker 1: five days a week, you're doing structured exercise four days
1:54:18
Speaker 1: a week, three of those sessions, you're doing it hard
1:54:20
Speaker 1: enough where you're getting a really good solid sweat. you're
1:54:22
Speaker 1: probably doing enough to burn enough calories to give yourself
1:54:26
Speaker 1: a chance from the exercise perspective to losing weight. If
1:54:31
Speaker 1: you've done those first three, we could even just call
1:54:34
Speaker 1: it the 5-4-3. Like you're in a pretty good spot.
1:54:37
Speaker 1: If you may work granular, I would love a couple
1:54:39
Speaker 1: of days a week of strength training. And I would
1:54:41
Speaker 1: love at least one day where your heart rate's getting really, really.
1:54:44
Speaker 2: Really high. So a lot of people, including myself, often think,
1:54:48
Speaker 2: you know, I'm going to the gym three, four days
1:54:49
Speaker 2: a week, but nothing's changing. I feel like I've stagnated.
1:54:53
Speaker 2: What is going on there, typically?
1:54:55
Speaker 1: Typical solutions for this are lack of focus. And I
1:54:58
Speaker 1: don't mean in your training. I mean in your programming.
1:55:01
Speaker 1: So if you are looking at your program saying, I'm
1:55:03
Speaker 1: going to the gym three or four days a week,
1:55:04
Speaker 1: my first question would be, okay, what type of training
1:55:07
Speaker 1: program are you on?
1:55:08
Speaker 2: I'm kind of just winging it. That's why.
1:55:10
Speaker 1: Okay. If I said the same thing to you and
1:55:12
Speaker 1: gave you any business analogy here, you would look at
1:55:14
Speaker 1: me in the face and smile. You have a plan.
1:55:18
Speaker 1: Why would you expect without a plan to get to
1:55:20
Speaker 1: any particular direction?
1:55:21
Speaker 2: That's a good point.
1:55:22
Speaker 1: 80% of the time, that's the answer. Now, here's the thing,
1:55:25
Speaker 1: and we have literature on this. There's good evidence. The
1:55:29
Speaker 1: plan itself isn't the biggest factor. It's actually just having
1:55:34
Speaker 1: a plan.
1:55:35
Speaker 2: Interesting.
1:55:36
Speaker 1: Because you have the ability to progressively overload.
1:55:39
Speaker 2: What does that mean?
1:55:39
Speaker 1: Meaning you were able to increase your number of repetitions
1:55:43
Speaker 1: than you did last week. You can do a few
1:55:45
Speaker 1: more sets than you did. You can increase the load.
1:55:47
Speaker 1: You can increase the range of motion. There's All kinds
1:55:50
Speaker 1: of ways that we can overload the system progressively. You
1:55:55
Speaker 1: can't do all that.
1:55:55
Speaker 2: This is, you know, I think this is really the
1:55:57
Speaker 2: heart of it, which is most of us go to
1:55:58
Speaker 2: the gym and we do the same thing.
1:56:00
Speaker 1: Totally.
1:56:00
Speaker 2: We do the same thing we did last week. We
1:56:01
Speaker 2: put the Stairmaster machine on level eight and we do
1:56:05
Speaker 2: 10 minutes.
1:56:05
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:56:06
Speaker 2: And we did that for the last seven months. Whereas
1:56:09
Speaker 2: we should really just put it up one. But in
1:56:11
Speaker 2: order to do that, we kind of need a plan,
1:56:12
Speaker 2: as you say.
1:56:12
Speaker 1: Because you can't just go up one every time.
1:56:14
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:56:15
Speaker 1: Like how many, how many weeks in a row can
1:56:16
Speaker 1: you add five pounds?
1:56:18
Speaker 3: Three.
1:56:19
Speaker 2: Three.
1:56:19
Speaker 1: Four, like it's not going to be very long. This
1:56:21
Speaker 1: is the entire reason exercise is a scientific field, right?
1:56:24
Speaker 1: We have that. So my strong recommendation would be if
1:56:27
Speaker 1: you're an absolute beginner and you're not going to the
1:56:30
Speaker 1: gym at all, you're not doing anything, you can probably
1:56:33
Speaker 1: use AI tools and give you some basic starting program.
1:56:37
Speaker 1: In fact, people send these things all the time to
1:56:39
Speaker 1: me and be like, hey, I prompted my thing with
1:56:42
Speaker 1: like all of your content and I have a complete
1:56:45
Speaker 1: personalized training program from Andy Galpin. I'm like, great. And
1:56:49
Speaker 1: I look at them, I'm like, pretty good. Like, all right,
1:56:52
Speaker 1: that's pretty reasonable. And they're good enough to get you started.
1:56:55
Speaker 1: They're going to get you the basics. They're going to
1:56:56
Speaker 1: get you going. And then you have something to follow
1:56:58
Speaker 1: for six, eight, 10 weeks, whatever.
1:57:00
Speaker 2: Let me ask AI for Andy Galpin's.
1:57:05
Speaker 1: Put in your constraints. Tell it how many days a week.
1:57:07
Speaker 2: Okay, let's do it like so everyone can hear. Hi,
1:57:11
Speaker 2: I want to go to the gym four days a week.
1:57:13
Speaker 2: And I want Andy Galpin's formula for me to gain muscle.
1:57:19
Speaker 2: But what are the principles that I need to apply
1:57:23
Speaker 2: based on Andy Galpin's work over the next four months
1:57:26
Speaker 2: in order to gain this muscle?
1:57:27
Speaker 3: To gain muscle and strength over the next four months,
1:57:30
Speaker 3: you'll want to focus on a few key principles from Dr.
1:57:33
Speaker 3: Galpin's work. First, prioritize progressive overload by gradually increasing the weight, reps,
1:57:38
Speaker 3: or sets over time. Second, use a variety of repetition ranges,
1:57:43
Speaker 3: incorporating both heavy low rep work for strength and moderate
1:57:46
Speaker 3: to high rep work for muscle growth. Finally, ensure you're
1:57:49
Speaker 3: taking adequate rest between sets, usually two to five minutes
1:57:53
Speaker 3: for heavy compound movements to allow for full recovery and
1:57:56
Speaker 3: maintain high quality effort.
1:57:59
Speaker 1: Pretty good. That's not, there's a little bit of hallucination
1:58:01
Speaker 1: in there, which is AI, but that's pretty close.
1:58:04
Speaker 2: A lot of people aren't doing this now, aren't they?
1:58:06
Speaker 2: They're using AI as like their.
1:58:08
Speaker 1: We've saw a huge pendulum in the last five years.
1:58:11
Speaker 1: 2020 almost ended health and fitness. Gyms went out of business.
1:58:16
Speaker 1: Everyone went home. Everyone bought their exercise equipment. And as
1:58:19
Speaker 1: soon as AI came online, online coaching tanked and online
1:58:22
Speaker 1: companies got crippled because everyone was like, why am I
1:58:25
Speaker 1: going to pay you a hundred bucks a month, 200
1:58:27
Speaker 1: bucks a month, 300 bucks a month for that? Hmm.
1:58:30
Speaker 1: And they were right. It's going the exact opposite now.
1:58:33
Speaker 1: It's already swung back. In-person training is way more in demand.
1:58:37
Speaker 2: I'm not surprised. Everyone's tired of that. It's also personal
1:58:41
Speaker 2: trainers don't just tell you what to do.
1:58:43
Speaker 1: No.
1:58:43
Speaker 2: They make sure you do it.
1:58:45
Speaker 1: How do I do it?
1:58:46
Speaker 2: It's the emotion.
1:58:47
Speaker 1: It's the connection.
1:58:48
Speaker 2: It's the emotion. It's the connection. It's the like holding
1:58:50
Speaker 2: me accountable.
1:58:51
Speaker 1: So what you're seeing is people going, it was never
1:58:54
Speaker 1: about the information. Yeah.
1:58:56
Speaker 2: We always had the information.
1:58:57
Speaker 1: We always had it. Nothing in that, I made up.
1:59:00
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:59:01
Speaker 1: That stuff's been around for like, it's funny. Every time
1:59:03
Speaker 1: I talk about like exercise prescription, somebody will hit the
1:59:06
Speaker 1: comments and be like, why don't you give credit to blah, blah, blah.
1:59:08
Speaker 1: They're the one that invented that. And I'm like, none
1:59:11
Speaker 1: of us invented this stuff. Dumbbells, barbells, like rep ranges.
1:59:14
Speaker 1: It's not the information. It's never been.
1:59:18
Speaker 2: So what is it then? Like, why do people keep
1:59:21
Speaker 2: listening to these conversations when they kind of, a lot
1:59:23
Speaker 2: of them kind of know the stuff.
1:59:25
Speaker 1: I don't know what's happening on your platform, but a
1:59:28
Speaker 1: lot of people are not listening to podcasts anymore. Cause
1:59:31
Speaker 1: you're going to see this probably in the comment section. Hey, Grok,
1:59:34
Speaker 1: tell me the 10 actionable things from this three hour conversation.
1:59:37
Speaker 1: Cause they just try and extract the data. Right. And
1:59:40
Speaker 1: then they don't do anything. You know, who's going to
1:59:43
Speaker 1: take action from this? The people who listened.
1:59:47
Speaker 2: True. Yeah. Yeah. Cause it's not, it's not the information. Yeah.
1:59:50
Speaker 2: And part of, in part is the story. And I
1:59:53
Speaker 2: say the story in particular because one of the most
1:59:54
Speaker 2: compelling things that we see on these podcasts is when
1:59:57
Speaker 2: you tell me real case studies of real people. You
2:00:00
Speaker 2: talk about what Jenny did and you were training Jenny
2:00:02
Speaker 2: and she had this thing and she was perimenopausal and
2:00:04
Speaker 2: she did this thing with this thing. And people go, ah, okay,
2:00:07
Speaker 2: those stay with me.
2:00:08
Speaker 1: You know what I'm willing to pay for? You know
2:00:10
Speaker 1: what the world is willing.
2:00:10
Speaker 2: To pay for?
2:00:12
Speaker 1: Have you done it before?
2:00:14
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. Yeah, true. Human experience, like lived experience.
2:00:17
Speaker 1: So when you see a story, you're able to go, okay,
2:00:19
Speaker 1: I believe that person's done it. And now I trust
2:00:22
Speaker 1: that opinion because I could just go grab the program, right?
2:00:25
Speaker 1: The other thing is saving me time. Like you could
2:00:28
Speaker 1: sit there and go, okay, here's all the prompts or whatever,
2:00:30
Speaker 1: throw it in there and get your own training program.
2:00:33
Speaker 1: Or you could be like, yo, I'm just going to
2:00:35
Speaker 1: go pay Andy. I know he's done it before. I
2:00:38
Speaker 1: trust him. And now I'm going to go spend my
2:00:39
Speaker 1: time on this other thing that I care about learning
2:00:42
Speaker 1: about and spending my time on.
2:00:43
Speaker 2: Are there any commonalities in the catalyst moment that causes
2:00:47
Speaker 2: behavior change in people who are otherwise stubborn? So I
2:00:51
Speaker 2: think everyone that I sit with, and just even myself,
2:00:53
Speaker 2: there was a moment in my life where I heard
2:00:56
Speaker 2: something or something happened where I go, fuck, yeah. Yeah.
2:00:59
Speaker 2: And that was the day. It was like a before
2:01:00
Speaker 2: and after moment, I call them. That was the day
2:01:02
Speaker 2: that I decided to take this shit seriously.
2:01:03
Speaker 1: Yeah.
2:01:04
Speaker 2: And do you see any commonalities in what that is
2:01:06
Speaker 2: for different people?
2:01:07
Speaker 1: It's such a fabulous question, and I don't have a
2:01:09
Speaker 1: good answer for you.
2:01:10
Speaker 2: Because it's always so different.
2:01:10
Speaker 1: It's so hard. I would love to say it was
2:01:14
Speaker 1: the rock bottom moment. I mean, it can be true.
2:01:17
Speaker 1: It's not always true.
2:01:19
Speaker 2: Can I suggest another? Please, go ahead. Maybe like big
2:01:22
Speaker 2: life changes like kids.
2:01:24
Speaker 1: Death, friend, family, life becomes real.
2:01:27
Speaker 2: I've heard that a few times on this show actually.
2:01:29
Speaker 1: You'll see that.
2:01:30
Speaker 2: My dad had a heart attack and blah, blah, blah.
2:01:31
Speaker 2: That's crazy.
2:01:32
Speaker 1: The threat of death doesn't motivate anybody.
2:01:35
Speaker 2: Right.
2:01:35
Speaker 1: If it would have, we wouldn't have a 40% obesity rate.
2:01:38
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:01:38
Speaker 1: Who doesn't know obesity tanks? Everybody knows. It's not a
2:01:44
Speaker 1: information issue. You know the risks associated with alcohol, smoking,
2:01:48
Speaker 1: social media. That does not change behavior. You get closer, though,
2:01:51
Speaker 1: when it's at home, right? Somebody died in a car accident. Fuck,
2:01:58
Speaker 1: I'm going to stop looking at my phone while I
2:01:59
Speaker 1: drive because my neighbor just died. That's the thing that
2:02:04
Speaker 1: makes you go too close to home.
2:02:07
Speaker 2: That's so true. I was saying to my fiance when
2:02:09
Speaker 2: I was driving the other day in the car, because
2:02:11
Speaker 2: I'm notorious for asking everybody to put their seatbelts on.
2:02:13
Speaker 2: If we get in a car, I'm the guy in
2:02:15
Speaker 2: a black cab or a... I'm like, everyone, can you
2:02:16
Speaker 2: put your seatbelts on, please? My team knows this as well.
2:02:18
Speaker 2: If we're going anywhere... I look around at every single
2:02:20
Speaker 2: person to make sure they have their seatbelts on.
2:02:22
Speaker 1: Yeah.
2:02:22
Speaker 2: When did this begin? When I was 10 years old. Yeah.
2:02:26
Speaker 2: And they came to my school. I remember being sat
2:02:28
Speaker 2: in the front row. I almost remember my seat number.
2:02:29
Speaker 2: It was that vivid for me. Two things I remember
2:02:31
Speaker 2: from 10 years old. They brought a mother who had
2:02:34
Speaker 2: lost her child in a car accident. And then they
2:02:37
Speaker 2: brought a police person. And he described going to the
2:02:39
Speaker 2: scene of the accident, looking down at the person who'd
2:02:42
Speaker 2: just been in a car accident's phone, realizing that they
2:02:45
Speaker 2: were deceased. And then looking down and seeing their phone ringing.
2:02:48
Speaker 2: And it said, mum. And I just, I've never forgotten it.
2:02:52
Speaker 2: It was somewhat traumatic, but it's meant that for the
2:02:55
Speaker 2: rest of my life, I've policed seatbelts. And that's what
2:02:59
Speaker 2: I mean by these catalyst moments where an idea gets
2:03:01
Speaker 2: in your head and it just completely changes. And so
2:03:04
Speaker 2: I'm wondering what those ideas are for people as it
2:03:06
Speaker 2: relates to like weight loss and health. And so we
2:03:09
Speaker 2: ticked off some of them. Someone gets it in your family,
2:03:11
Speaker 2: maybe a diagnosis.
2:03:12
Speaker 1: In the performance perspective, this is when we would argue
2:03:15
Speaker 1: for data. Because we've had this happen before. earlier in
2:03:19
Speaker 1: my career with a professional athlete who was not fast
2:03:21
Speaker 1: enough and was convinced he was fast. And then we
2:03:24
Speaker 1: put him on a force plate and we started collecting
2:03:28
Speaker 1: objective data. And at the same time, I had some
2:03:30
Speaker 1: of my students around and I had them do it.
2:03:32
Speaker 1: Kind of like what you did with your grip strength
2:03:35
Speaker 1: with Jeff. And it was like, you see how they're
2:03:37
Speaker 1: as fast as you are? And he was like, oh,
2:03:42
Speaker 1: everything changed. Like he was totally bought in, made every
2:03:45
Speaker 1: training change that we asked. He had to see it
2:03:48
Speaker 1: in front of his face. Like he had to see
2:03:49
Speaker 1: his data. So my other answer to that to you
2:03:51
Speaker 1: would be now that we've democratized health in this sense,
2:03:55
Speaker 1: the ability to see your own data, I would be
2:03:58
Speaker 1: willing to bet. Had I pulled up a blood panel
2:04:02
Speaker 1: that had the cholesterol levels that you saw and I said, oh,
2:04:05
Speaker 1: this is a client of mine. You would be like, oh, okay, great.
2:04:08
Speaker 2: Uh-huh, uh-huh.
2:04:10
Speaker 1: But then when I pull up yours and say, this is,
2:04:12
Speaker 1: you're like, we're done with that, right? Like there's no question.
2:04:18
Speaker 2: I was looking for some research and there's some evidence
2:04:20
Speaker 2: here backed by some research that goes to answer the question.
2:04:23
Speaker 2: And I think we actually answered, we hit most of them,
2:04:25
Speaker 2: which is an acute health shock or diagnosis, which is
2:04:27
Speaker 2: the primary catalyst. Vicarious health events, which become wake up calls,
2:04:32
Speaker 2: which you talked about as well, which is someone else,
2:04:34
Speaker 2: a peer, a friend, a sibling. Number three, you touched
2:04:36
Speaker 2: on as well, which is this quantitative biometric feedback. So data. Yep, yep, yep.
2:04:41
Speaker 2: It says major life, this one we didn't touch on,
2:04:43
Speaker 2: major life transitions, i.e., such as becoming a parent, turning
2:04:49
Speaker 2: a landmark age like 30, 40, or 50, or reaching retirement.
2:04:53
Speaker 2: You see that a lot?
2:04:53
Speaker 1: Yep. You know what, actually? Let me think. Here's one
2:04:57
Speaker 1: we've seen the most. Sold my company.
2:05:01
Speaker 3: Oh.
2:05:02
Speaker 1: That one changes everyone's life. It's similar to post-cold depression.
2:05:06
Speaker 2: Oh, you've lost purpose. I need to do something.
2:05:10
Speaker 1: Now I got money. Now I have time. Interesting. I'm
2:05:13
Speaker 1: investing in my health now. I sacrificed my health the
2:05:16
Speaker 1: last 20 years. Ding, ding, ding, ding. Now I got
2:05:19
Speaker 1: to turn around and I'm like, okay.
2:05:21
Speaker 2: But is it also just like I need a new
2:05:22
Speaker 2: purpose and my body then becomes the project?
2:05:25
Speaker 1: That's exactly what it is. Where in the past I
2:05:27
Speaker 1: had the excuse of sacrificing for the company and I
2:05:32
Speaker 1: couldn't focus on myself. It was selfish. It wasn't fiduciarily
2:05:35
Speaker 1: responsible to do that. And I have no more excuse.
2:05:39
Speaker 2: Well, looking at this list then, listen, we can't, we're
2:05:42
Speaker 2: going to pray no one in your family, no one
2:05:44
Speaker 2: you know gets sick. So let's stay away from that one.
2:05:47
Speaker 2: The two of them there that can be quite motivating.
2:05:50
Speaker 2: And again, we don't want to motivate you if you're
2:05:52
Speaker 2: completely fine, but this actually answers the question is to
2:05:55
Speaker 2: go and get your health checked. Yeah. That's like a
2:05:57
Speaker 2: simple solution because maybe you're fine and that's great. Maybe
2:06:00
Speaker 2: you're doing everything right. But also just saying, oh, I
2:06:03
Speaker 2: want to lose a bit of weight or I want
2:06:04
Speaker 2: to do this isn't as solid enough as going and
2:06:07
Speaker 2: finding out how you're doing.
2:06:08
Speaker 1: One thing also I think is important because I will
2:06:12
Speaker 1: default to performance and optimization and getting the best and excellence.
2:06:16
Speaker 1: Like that's just the language and stuff I do. But
2:06:19
Speaker 1: that's not the opposite of what you just said. To
2:06:22
Speaker 1: be really clear on that point, not everyone gravitates the
2:06:27
Speaker 1: idea of being the best possible ever.
2:06:29
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:06:29
Speaker 1: Totally fine. But that still doesn't mean it's okay to
2:06:33
Speaker 1: just check out on your health. You can have it
2:06:36
Speaker 1: both ways. You can be like, look, I'm not an optimizer.
2:06:38
Speaker 1: I'm not a maximizer. I'm not, that doesn't live with
2:06:42
Speaker 1: my ethos and cool. We can still though say you
2:06:46
Speaker 1: still want to live that life for as long as possible, right?
2:06:50
Speaker 1: All right, let's just make sure we're paying enough attention
2:06:52
Speaker 1: to where nothing catches up and we're not waking up
2:06:54
Speaker 1: one day and be like, oh my gosh, now I've
2:06:57
Speaker 1: got to go invest all these time and resource energy
2:07:00
Speaker 1: and all those things to go backwards in that. So
2:07:02
Speaker 1: Pay attention enough.
2:07:03
Speaker 2: How important is it to get clear on your why?
2:07:06
Speaker 1: You're not going to love the answer because traditionally when
2:07:11
Speaker 1: people approach me, they already have that figured out. They're
2:07:15
Speaker 1: getting to me. They figured out why they're here or
2:07:19
Speaker 1: if they haven't figured out, they at least have had
2:07:20
Speaker 1: the motivation to seek outside counsel like that. So now
2:07:24
Speaker 1: they're getting to the what and how part.
2:07:27
Speaker 2: What about bad goals? I look back at my life
2:07:30
Speaker 2: and I had some bad goals that.
2:07:31
Speaker 1: Set me up for failure. That's more realistic to what
2:07:33
Speaker 1: we all do. Okay. And this is a, you're aiming
2:07:36
Speaker 1: at the wrong target.
2:07:37
Speaker 2: I was aiming at, my goal when I was 20,
2:07:39
Speaker 2: I think it was 27, was to go to the
2:07:40
Speaker 2: gym every day and I failed. Oh, yeah, yeah. I
2:07:42
Speaker 2: failed six months later, but then once I'd failed, it
2:07:44
Speaker 2: was catastrophic for me.
2:07:45
Speaker 1: And how are you not going to fail?
2:07:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
2:07:48
Speaker 1: Were you going to go every day the rest of
2:07:49
Speaker 1: your life?
2:07:50
Speaker 2: It was a terrible goal because the day that I
2:07:53
Speaker 2: missed one day because of some flight, it was like
2:07:56
Speaker 2: my entire motivation was over.
2:07:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure.
2:07:59
Speaker 2: And I was like, how do I get back on
2:08:00
Speaker 2: the horse now?
2:08:01
Speaker 1: Here's an example. You want to lose fat. Your goal
2:08:04
Speaker 1: is fat loss.
2:08:05
Speaker 2: Cool.
2:08:06
Speaker 1: Why aren't you leaner right now? And you automatically think
2:08:10
Speaker 1: I have to exercise more and diet. And I'm like, great.
2:08:12
Speaker 1: That's the tactic. I want to know why you're not
2:08:15
Speaker 1: there right now. Like, what is the thing that's actually
2:08:18
Speaker 1: getting in the way? Because like calorie, fine.
2:08:20
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, yeah.
2:08:21
Speaker 1: Like, you know that though, but it's not working. What
2:08:25
Speaker 1: is really in the way? Do we actually have some
2:08:28
Speaker 1: hidden stressor? A lot of times people will say things like,
2:08:32
Speaker 1: I got to lose fat so I can get healthy.
2:08:35
Speaker 1: And we will generally say, you need to get healthy first.
2:08:40
Speaker 1: And then the fat loss would be a whole lot easier.
2:08:42
Speaker 1: That's the bad goal. And so we'll ask this question, like,
2:08:45
Speaker 1: what would success look like? What would failure look like?
2:08:50
Speaker 1: And when we hear things like, oh, success is I
2:08:52
Speaker 1: lose these 25 pounds. All right, great. Let me ask
2:08:55
Speaker 1: you this. If we lost 12 pounds and then your
2:09:00
Speaker 1: shoulder pain went away, you have normal bowel movements now
2:09:04
Speaker 1: for the first time in 10 years, your energy is
2:09:06
Speaker 1: way up. Is that all a failure? No, that's success.
2:09:11
Speaker 1: So then we didn't just find success properly. So it
2:09:14
Speaker 1: is a huge focus of how we help people actually
2:09:17
Speaker 1: make progress in those areas that they've struggled with. Dr.
2:09:20
Speaker 2: Andy Galpin, we have a closing tradition where the last
2:09:22
Speaker 2: guest leaves a question for the next, not knowing who
2:09:23
Speaker 2: they're leaving it for. And the question left for you is,
2:09:27
Speaker 2: if you were sure to fail, what would still be
2:09:32
Speaker 2: worth doing? What a great question.
2:09:36
Speaker 1: Yeah.
2:09:37
Speaker 2: Fantastic question.
2:09:38
Speaker 1: I am ultra competitive, but I really don't mind losing.
2:09:46
Speaker 1: So my answer to that question was, It sounds like
2:09:49
Speaker 1: a cop-out, but it's all of it. Because I actually
2:09:51
Speaker 1: don't care about failing that much. It just doesn't bother me.
2:09:54
Speaker 1: I just like the competing thing. I like the doing thing.
2:09:57
Speaker 1: So my initial reaction to that was like, God, being
2:10:00
Speaker 1: around my kids, right? You fail anything you want there,
2:10:03
Speaker 1: and I'm like, well, I'm winning, right? And then I
2:10:05
Speaker 1: went to business things, and I'm like, I don't even
2:10:07
Speaker 1: really care about losing those. Because you get to do it.
2:10:10
Speaker 1: You get to be active and whatever. So kind of
2:10:12
Speaker 1: a cop-out, but my answer would be all of them, man.
2:10:15
Speaker 1: The process is dope.
2:10:17
Speaker 2: The podium is the process.
2:10:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, man.
2:10:20
Speaker 2: The process over the podium. Dr. Andy Galpin, thank you
2:10:23
Speaker 2: so much. Thank you. You're held in such high regard
2:10:25
Speaker 2: by everybody. I think there's two reasons. I think it's
2:10:27
Speaker 2: so you're so deeply obsessed with this subject matter for
2:10:29
Speaker 2: reasons that we talked a lot about last time. But also,
2:10:33
Speaker 2: I think the essence of your motivations is so unbelievably pure.
2:10:37
Speaker 2: Before we started recording, you were saying to me how
2:10:38
Speaker 2: like you're really not that concerned with the business side
2:10:42
Speaker 2: of things because what you'd love to do is just
2:10:44
Speaker 2: be focusing on the research, the education and the coaching.
2:10:46
Speaker 2: And I think that says a lot about you. And
2:10:47
Speaker 2: it comes through. People understand that you're just deeply obsessed
2:10:50
Speaker 2: about this stuff in a way which allows us to
2:10:53
Speaker 2: benefit tremendously from all the work that you have done.
2:10:55
Speaker 2: And you're a wonderful synthesizer of very, very complex things.
2:10:59
Speaker 2: So please carry on doing what you're doing. If people
2:11:01
Speaker 2: want to go and listen to your show or if
2:11:03
Speaker 2: they want to go consume more of your stuff, if
2:11:04
Speaker 2: they want to continue this journey with you, where do
2:11:06
Speaker 2: they go? where's the best place to send them well.
2:11:08
Speaker 1: First of all thank you for those kind words and
2:11:11
Speaker 1: to be invited back it's it's a huge opportunity and
2:11:13
Speaker 1: i will never be ungrateful for it my podcast is
2:11:16
Speaker 1: called perform with dr andy galpin available everywhere and then
2:11:21
Speaker 1: andy galpin.com and social media instagram and all that stuff
2:11:24
Speaker 1: is probably the easiest way to follow.
2:11:25
Speaker 2: Along i highly recommend you go and subscribe to andy's
2:11:28
Speaker 2: channel and we're going to link it down below now
2:11:30
Speaker 2: but it's um You're incredibly rigorous with all the work
2:11:33
Speaker 2: that you do. Having spoken to Andrew, Andrew Huberman, who's
2:11:37
Speaker 2: a good friend of both of ours, he's also told
2:11:40
Speaker 2: me just how utterly obsessed you are with truth and
2:11:43
Speaker 2: also your mission of helping people become who they could be.
2:11:47
Speaker 2: And that shines through in all of your work. So
2:11:49
Speaker 2: please go and subscribe to Andy's podcast as well, Perform.
2:11:52
Speaker 2: And I shall link all of his other resources below,
2:11:55
Speaker 2: including some of them that we've mentioned today, including the
2:11:58
Speaker 2: tests and questionnaires that we talked about. Andy, thank you.
2:12:01
Speaker 2: YouTube have this new crazy algorithm where they know exactly
2:12:04
Speaker 2: what video you would like to watch next based on
2:12:07
Speaker 2: AI and all of your viewing behavior. And the algorithm
2:12:10
Speaker 2: says that this video is the perfect video for you.
2:12:14
Speaker 2: It's different for everybody looking right now. Check this video out.
2:12:17
Speaker 2: I bet you, you might love it.