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Study Hall: Music Business & Brand Building with Ryan Leslie · Earn Your Leisure

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Speaker 2: my graduates from my school being forced bad drop Drop,
2:02
Speaker 2: Mike drop, Bad Drop drop. As far as you get
2:17
Speaker 2: in the game, how did how did your career path
2:20
Speaker 2: takes as a producer first and even figuring out as
2:23
Speaker 2: far as like points on an album, man, negotiating royalties
2:28
Speaker 2: and things of that nature.
2:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think now more than ever it's
2:32
Speaker 3: important to know your math on that. I think really
2:35
Speaker 3: when I when I was getting started the the going,
2:39
Speaker 3: I think actually, in a lot of ways, when people
2:42
Speaker 3: start getting into music, they just say, look, I just
2:44
Speaker 3: want to have the biggest hits possible, and you know,
2:47
Speaker 3: it's inevitable if I have a really big hit that
2:49
Speaker 3: I'm I'm gonna get paid, you know, And uh, there's
2:53
Speaker 3: a lot of there are a great number of revenue streams,
2:57
Speaker 3: and there are a great number of revenue streams that
2:59
Speaker 3: are potentially overlooked. And so you know, for me coming
3:03
Speaker 3: up in a game, I was very fortunate to have
3:05
Speaker 3: really great mentors and folks that were working with me
3:10
Speaker 3: had signed me management all of that, and so they
3:14
Speaker 3: really helped me to sit down and understand not only
3:17
Speaker 3: just my paperwork and my contrast, but what all the
3:19
Speaker 3: actual revenue streams are. So with music, I mean, first
3:23
Speaker 3: of all, I would say, look, information is so readily
3:29
Speaker 3: available online. It's just about knowing what to search and
3:32
Speaker 3: then also knowing what's reliable and so listen, you know,
3:36
Speaker 3: for me even still today, there's your performance rights organizations,
3:40
Speaker 3: which is like your askhap your being mine, and then
3:44
Speaker 3: you have your actual publishing, so whoever's actually administering your publishing.
3:49
Speaker 3: So I know there's a ton of folks that are
3:51
Speaker 3: putting music up on Spotify and you know, distributing their
3:55
Speaker 3: music through an aggregator like a CD baby, distro kid
3:58
Speaker 3: whatever it is. Yeah, and they completely overlook the actual
4:03
Speaker 3: other side of the publishing and so you still need
4:05
Speaker 3: an administrator on that publishing side. And that's and so
4:09
Speaker 3: you know, I just had a great meeting with Downtown
4:11
Speaker 3: Music Holdings and they've got probably one of the leading
4:15
Speaker 3: from a technology standpoint platforms for that publishing administration. It's
4:21
Speaker 3: called song Trust. And so you know, I think nowadays
4:24
Speaker 3: everything is basically self service, and software really has been
4:28
Speaker 3: that equalizer, I would say. And for me, I just
4:32
Speaker 3: like to be in control of my revenue stream. So
4:35
Speaker 3: I like to be able to look at be able
4:37
Speaker 3: to just log into my accounts and see them all,
4:41
Speaker 3: even if that means that you know, they may be delayed.
4:44
Speaker 3: I just want to be one on top of them.
4:46
Speaker 3: So I mean, I'm not sure if I'm even answering
4:49
Speaker 3: your question per se. When I first got started, I
4:52
Speaker 3: would just say, look, I was very much concerned with
4:55
Speaker 3: in advance, and I think a lot of folks when
4:56
Speaker 3: they first get started, you've been living in the basement,
5:00
Speaker 3: you've been you know, living out the trap wherever you living.
5:04
Speaker 3: You want that advance because that advance is that first
5:06
Speaker 3: way that you're going to pay for all those years
5:08
Speaker 3: of starvation, if you will.
5:10
Speaker 4: So the advance is the money that the record label's
5:12
Speaker 4: given to you, saying like, here's the money that you
5:14
Speaker 4: get to do the project.
5:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I mean it's actually an advance against your royalties. Right.
5:19
Speaker 3: So on the artist's side, depends on the type of
5:22
Speaker 3: deal you make. And I mean, listen, business is really
5:26
Speaker 3: just business, and whatever you sign is whatever you sign.
5:31
Speaker 3: I know, there's definitely always been a lot to talk about, like, hey,
5:34
Speaker 3: you know, people are you know, they got they got
5:36
Speaker 3: into slave deals and you know, you hit these kinds
5:38
Speaker 3: of overtones. At the end of the day, I think,
5:43
Speaker 3: you know, as long as you've got good legal counsel
5:45
Speaker 3: and you're sitting down and you're looking at your contracts,
5:48
Speaker 3: you're definitely the final arbiter of what deal you get into.
5:55
Speaker 3: And so it's important for you just to just know
5:57
Speaker 3: and be informed. So for me, my Bible level primer
6:01
Speaker 3: for the music industry, and this is an age old primer.
6:04
Speaker 3: It's a Donald Passman book all you need to know
6:06
Speaker 3: about the music business. It's updated all the time, and
6:10
Speaker 3: you know, I always recommend look, somebody really wants to know.
6:13
Speaker 3: They could start there and it's updated and it was
6:16
Speaker 3: written by an attorney who definitely just understands just the
6:20
Speaker 3: nuances of the business. And then you know, no matter
6:24
Speaker 3: what's actually written in the books, it's different when you're
6:27
Speaker 3: actually sitting across the negotiation table and you're going to
6:30
Speaker 3: negotiate whatever deal is best for you at that time.
6:33
Speaker 3: And so, you know, I find that there are a
6:35
Speaker 3: lot of folks that when they're sitting at there at
6:37
Speaker 3: that negotiation table and they've never seen five thousan ten
6:42
Speaker 3: th twenty thousand, one hundred thousand at one time in
6:45
Speaker 3: their bank account, much less five hundred thousand or a
6:48
Speaker 3: million dollars, and those situations, they say, oh yeah, definitely
6:52
Speaker 3: sign me up for that, without actually looking at what
6:55
Speaker 3: the actual what the contractual obligations are that are associated
6:59
Speaker 3: with those deals. The end of the day, though, you know,
7:02
Speaker 3: life just goes on. And I was just having a
7:06
Speaker 3: conversation today. Life is really like water. It is fluid,
7:10
Speaker 3: and basically the time that you have takes on the
7:14
Speaker 3: shape of whatever container that you put around your life.
7:18
Speaker 3: And so if you put a container around your life
7:20
Speaker 3: where you get that upfront advance, and it's a big
7:23
Speaker 3: upfront advance and you're able to do in a smart
7:27
Speaker 3: way what you should do with that, and you're keeping
7:30
Speaker 3: track of your accounting and when that advance is recouped, etc.
7:33
Speaker 3: Then that may be the right pathway for you as
7:36
Speaker 3: opposed to delaying the gratification and waiting eighteen months to
7:40
Speaker 3: actually let the publishing or the royalties trickle in.
7:44
Speaker 2: So let me ask you this because a lot of times,
7:45
Speaker 2: especially with producers, there's been a lot of record lab
7:48
Speaker 2: won't name any recor labels, but there's a lot of
7:50
Speaker 2: record labels where producers say that they don't get paid. Right,
7:53
Speaker 2: It's like a it happens all the time. So why
7:56
Speaker 2: is it such an epidemic with producers, specifically producers making
8:00
Speaker 2: beats and getting delayed on their payments or not getting
8:03
Speaker 2: paid because you hear about that all the time, and
8:06
Speaker 2: even like big name producers and they go on social
8:09
Speaker 2: media and they make a big deal about it.
8:10
Speaker 4: And so it's like, yo, I have a relationship with you,
8:12
Speaker 4: and you'll give me on the back end, and it
8:13
Speaker 4: never happens.
8:14
Speaker 3: That happens all Tom, Yeah, I mean listen, like I said,
8:19
Speaker 3: all of all of those situations are directly correlated to
8:24
Speaker 3: what you negotiate upfront, and would I would just say that,
8:30
Speaker 3: in many cases one of the most uncomfortable conversations to have,
8:35
Speaker 3: and unless you have an advocate or you have the
8:38
Speaker 3: wherewithal to have that conversation right there in the session,
8:42
Speaker 3: that uncomfortable conversation is Hey, what part of this record
8:45
Speaker 3: do I own? When do we get paid? How is
8:48
Speaker 3: it all going to be broken down? And where's the
8:50
Speaker 3: paperwork for it? It almost seems that antithetical to the
8:55
Speaker 3: creative process, right, because the creative process you want to
8:58
Speaker 3: be open, you want to be open is people want
9:00
Speaker 3: to be sharing back and forth and the last element
9:04
Speaker 3: of that process is to be sitting back and saying, Okay,
9:07
Speaker 3: what percentage of the sung line? It's it's but it's
9:12
Speaker 3: I just believe you you get what you negotiate, and
9:17
Speaker 3: you may not even get what you deserve, you get
9:18
Speaker 3: what you negotiate, right, And so for me, I think
9:21
Speaker 3: that you know, we just have to get more comfortable
9:26
Speaker 3: with the discomfort and it that just needs to be
9:30
Speaker 3: a requisite of doing business. And once you're at that
9:34
Speaker 3: level and you understand and folks that work with you
9:38
Speaker 3: understand that a requisite of doing business is to just
9:41
Speaker 3: have that upfront, transparent conversation. Then once both sides agreed,
9:46
Speaker 3: then you allowed to run down on people for the
9:50
Speaker 3: money that's owed because there is no confusion in terms
9:55
Speaker 3: of having some sort of like you know, fugazy conversation
9:58
Speaker 3: as opposed to have whatever you need to have in writing,
10:01
Speaker 3: and so you get what you negotiate.
10:03
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I'm imagine you know when you walk into
10:05
Speaker 4: these tables, obviously you come from a highly educated background.
10:08
Speaker 4: I think you said your dad wanted you to study law.
10:10
Speaker 4: Is that true?
10:11
Speaker 3: Law, medicine, you know, whatever was guaranteed pathway that somebody
10:16
Speaker 3: was going to get.
10:18
Speaker 4: Did you feel when you sit at these tables, Obviously
10:20
Speaker 4: you have a distinct advantage knowing that you know what
10:23
Speaker 4: they're not talking to somebody who's under educated in this game.
10:25
Speaker 3: Listen, I would say that baby and Slim sitting at
10:31
Speaker 3: these tables, they also had an advantage because they were
10:35
Speaker 3: moving one hundred thousand mixtapes a week. So the education is,
10:42
Speaker 3: the education comes in whatever format that you achieve or
10:48
Speaker 3: accumulate the education, right, So it's really up to you
10:51
Speaker 3: to educate yourself. You know, you don't. I mean, I
10:55
Speaker 3: didn't go to Harvard for music business. I read it myself.
10:59
Speaker 3: And so I think probably some of the most astute
11:03
Speaker 3: business people in the music business they learn from being observant,
11:08
Speaker 3: They learned from having great relationships, They learned from deciding
11:12
Speaker 3: that they wanted to be mentored by the best attorneys,
11:15
Speaker 3: the best managers, and they you know, they had the
11:18
Speaker 3: transparency into the deals. And so I think that you know, nowadays,
11:23
Speaker 3: like I said, with the with the amount of information
11:27
Speaker 3: that's readily accessible, there's really no excuse for someone to
11:33
Speaker 3: enter into a deal blindly unless they intentionally just want
11:38
Speaker 3: to be ignorant about the deal. And so I think
11:41
Speaker 3: that you know, we live in an age of media
11:43
Speaker 3: where you could find anybody, You can connect with anyone.
11:48
Speaker 3: They may or may not respond, but you can at
11:50
Speaker 3: least reach out. You can ask for an introduction, you
11:54
Speaker 3: can ask for a referral, you can ask for a recommendation,
11:57
Speaker 3: and you can go get the knowledge. And so you
12:00
Speaker 3: want to be great, just be around the greatest UH
12:03
Speaker 3: and UH and absorbed as much knowledge as possible. And
12:07
Speaker 3: before you sit down at the table, make sure that
12:09
Speaker 3: you you've done your homework and your research, so that
12:13
Speaker 3: even in the absence of knowing what you need to discuss,
12:16
Speaker 3: you can ask the right questions so that people understand
12:19
Speaker 3: that you you know, you know slotch when you come
12:21
Speaker 3: to the new when you come to the negotiation table.
12:24
Speaker 2: So what is the you said the royalty administrative company
12:28
Speaker 2: song Trust? Can you explain that I've never heard that before.
12:32
Speaker 3: Yeah, So basically, you know, you're you're getting whatever the
12:36
Speaker 3: streaming services are paying you. And at the same time,
12:39
Speaker 3: you're also indited to a royalty as a publisher of
12:43
Speaker 3: the music and a writer of the music, and so
12:47
Speaker 3: those publishing and writing royalties have to be collected and
12:50
Speaker 3: administrated by UH. For for me, the beauty of song
12:55
Speaker 3: Trust is that those royalties are actually collected and administered
13:00
Speaker 3: traded on your behalf in all of the countries and
13:02
Speaker 3: territories around the world. So that includes like, okay, you
13:05
Speaker 3: know what happens you know you yeah, you get paper,
13:08
Speaker 3: your Spotify streams, what happens when your record makes it
13:11
Speaker 3: onto the radio in some obscure country, or what happens
13:14
Speaker 3: when your record is actually being used in a video game.
13:18
Speaker 3: What happens when your record is actually being played in
13:21
Speaker 3: the nightclubs in you know, some overseas country, all of
13:25
Speaker 3: that is actually being tracked, and there's a there are
13:28
Speaker 3: a massive number of artists who completely overlook that as
13:33
Speaker 3: a revenue stream. And so I think one of the
13:36
Speaker 3: greatest takeaways from my meeting recently, like I said with
13:41
Speaker 3: Downtown Music Holdings, was that you know, there are a
13:44
Speaker 3: number of creators who once they put their music through
13:48
Speaker 3: distro kid or tune Corps, they they get those checks
13:52
Speaker 3: and they think that's it, when really there's an entire
13:55
Speaker 3: other world of publishing royalties that can be connected. Just
14:00
Speaker 3: needs to hire an agency to do it. You give
14:02
Speaker 3: them a commission for doing it, and that becomes an
14:04
Speaker 3: additional income stream for you.
14:05
Speaker 4: So when you're talking about I kind of think, like
14:07
Speaker 4: when streaming, I can get how they track the data
14:11
Speaker 4: when it's played on the radio, honestly, on how to
14:13
Speaker 4: contract the data? How does that happen in a nightclub?
14:16
Speaker 4: Like I'm not you just turn.
14:17
Speaker 3: It like really for me, every time I every time
14:21
Speaker 3: I perform overseas, they they are keeping track of the
14:25
Speaker 3: set list. So I even get paid to perform my
14:27
Speaker 3: own music.
14:28
Speaker 4: So like a DJ has to give the set list
14:30
Speaker 4: to the venue.
14:31
Speaker 3: They give the set list and you know in Europe,
14:34
Speaker 3: I think it's called Geema Gema, and yeah, they track
14:38
Speaker 3: it the best that they can. You know, bottom line
14:41
Speaker 3: is it's just an additional revenue stream, and I think
14:44
Speaker 3: with the advancements in technology that may or inevitably that
14:50
Speaker 3: will improve. It's just going to get better.
14:52
Speaker 4: So like you can literally get booked for a nightclub,
14:54
Speaker 4: get paid to go to the nightclub, and then if
14:56
Speaker 4: the DJ starts, oh, Ryan Leslie's in the house and
14:58
Speaker 4: starts playing your record, you get pay that too.
15:00
Speaker 3: Absolutely. Now obviously it's pennies on the dollar. Once you
15:04
Speaker 3: do that, once you do that at scale, it starts
15:08
Speaker 3: to begin to become material and significant.
15:12
Speaker 2: So as far as the new age that we're in with,
15:15
Speaker 2: because we're gonna talk about that the next segment with
15:17
Speaker 2: the director consuming all of that, but for new new musicians, artists,
15:22
Speaker 2: producers specifically where they're not going to traditional route of
15:25
Speaker 2: going to a record label, because now I've seen it
15:27
Speaker 2: from both sides where a lot of producers are mad
15:30
Speaker 2: at producers that's like selling beats for one hundred dollars, like,
15:34
Speaker 2: but they're getting their music out and then you know,
15:37
Speaker 2: it's it's an easier route. So what is what's your
15:40
Speaker 2: take on that for art for producers specifically, that might
15:43
Speaker 2: be I guess maybe devaluing there.
15:47
Speaker 4: We happened with the Old Town Road, right, like the
15:49
Speaker 4: do sold the beat and he gave it to him
15:51
Speaker 4: for like two thousand dollars.
15:52
Speaker 2: Or even what's the kid Bobby's Murder? That was Lloyd
15:55
Speaker 2: Banks beat? Right? Originally who is that beats?
15:59
Speaker 3: Right? Thing?
16:00
Speaker 4: But that record, like that biggest record of the year, right,
16:03
Speaker 4: those ten twelve million times platinum.
16:06
Speaker 3: Trust me those producers as long as they retain their
16:10
Speaker 3: copyright ownership of those beats. And you know, I also
16:15
Speaker 3: know ab over at Beat Stars, those beasts are actually
16:18
Speaker 3: being licensed and at least to my knowledge, they being licensed.
16:22
Speaker 3: And yeah, you give the license for some low barrier
16:25
Speaker 3: to entry costs so that you know, some artists that
16:28
Speaker 3: doesn't have a lot of money, but it's very creative
16:31
Speaker 3: and could create the next Panda, the next Old Town Road,
16:35
Speaker 3: the next you know, Bobby Schmurder smash. You license those beats,
16:41
Speaker 3: you retain the ownership though of the copyright, and that's
16:45
Speaker 3: that's where that song trust relationship comes into play, because
16:49
Speaker 3: you're definitely going to get paid based on your ownership
16:53
Speaker 3: of that intellectual property.
16:55
Speaker 4: I mean.
16:55
Speaker 3: And so that's why, like I said, you just got
16:57
Speaker 3: to be astute about it. And for or anyone that
17:00
Speaker 3: has you know that has time to be hating on
17:04
Speaker 3: how someone else is getting to their bag, I always
17:07
Speaker 3: recommend like, look, that means you got too much time
17:09
Speaker 3: on your hand. You should really just find another stream
17:12
Speaker 3: of income that you could go chase, because you know,
17:16
Speaker 3: everyone needs to make money the way they feel is
17:19
Speaker 3: best for them. And the impact overall that that creates
17:26
Speaker 3: in the industry is is just creating more and more
17:28
Speaker 3: opportunity for folks that want to make a living doing
17:32
Speaker 3: what they love. They have the right and they have
17:36
Speaker 3: the latitude to price that intellectual property however they want
17:41
Speaker 3: from a licensing perspective. And you know, when I was
17:44
Speaker 3: in when I was in undergrad at Harvard, I had
17:47
Speaker 3: a business school professor and I used to say, oh, man,
17:50
Speaker 3: you know I don't want any you don't want to
17:51
Speaker 3: hold on to all my music? He said, look, Ryan,
17:54
Speaker 3: just hold on to your copyrights because the best thing
17:56
Speaker 3: that can ever happen to you is one of those songs.
17:58
Speaker 3: Just go whether someone paid you up front for it
18:01
Speaker 3: or not. As long as you own the copyright, you're
18:04
Speaker 3: getting paid, and you're gonna get paid handsomely as long
18:07
Speaker 3: as as you've done what you're supposed to do in
18:10
Speaker 3: terms of owning that copyright.
18:12
Speaker 2: So well, that was a lot with the music. So
18:15
Speaker 2: now the next segment, we're going to go into what
18:16
Speaker 2: you got going on now, all right, So now we're
18:18
Speaker 2: gonna go into the deep dive on the tech side.
18:21
Speaker 2: And this is something that we talked about a few
18:23
Speaker 2: different times. So Derek Ferguson former bad Boy see oh
18:28
Speaker 2: all right.
18:28
Speaker 4: Yep, CFO.
18:29
Speaker 2: CFO shout out to Derek good guest, and he was
18:33
Speaker 2: the first one to actually bring this up. And then
18:35
Speaker 2: I got Jabari from R and B only talked about
18:37
Speaker 2: the data. And we had Danish Chanel and Prince Donelle
18:41
Speaker 2: and they both spoke about the same thing. So it's
18:43
Speaker 2: been a kind of recurrent theme on Ernalsia.
18:46
Speaker 1: But but.
18:48
Speaker 2: You have an actual platform in place. And so twenty
18:52
Speaker 2: thirteen I was watching a breakfast club interview. So twenty thirteen,
18:54
Speaker 2: you said you took your music off of streaming services,
18:58
Speaker 2: right right, How did you do that?
19:01
Speaker 3: Well, I needed to create an incentive for people to
19:05
Speaker 3: really want to connect with me directly. So I mean,
19:08
Speaker 3: now you can go listen to my records on streaming services.
19:10
Speaker 3: At that time, though, I felt that that the the
19:15
Speaker 3: most important I always say, most important factor or most
19:22
Speaker 3: important attractor or incentive for someone to connect with me
19:27
Speaker 3: directly would be through a conversation about music and new music.
19:32
Speaker 3: And so in order to build the audience that I
19:36
Speaker 3: wanted to build, and in order to attract the audience
19:39
Speaker 3: that I wanted to attract, and in order to accumulate
19:42
Speaker 3: the kind of data I wanted to accumulate, I needed
19:45
Speaker 3: to make sure that that audience was communicating with me directly.
19:49
Speaker 3: Because the convenience of iTunes, the convenience of Amazon, the
19:53
Speaker 3: convenience of Spotify made it such that they really were
19:58
Speaker 3: just like, oh, okay, well I can just go listen
20:00
Speaker 3: to Runds music. Why I got to give him, Why
20:02
Speaker 3: I got to give them my cell phone number to
20:04
Speaker 3: listen to it, and so to take all the music
20:07
Speaker 3: off the streaming services. It gave me a way to
20:09
Speaker 3: differentiate between those that were passive interactions with me and
20:16
Speaker 3: active interactions with me. And I knew that I could
20:18
Speaker 3: convert the active interactions into into a relationship of support,
20:24
Speaker 3: and that support, you know, came to the tune of
20:27
Speaker 3: you know, a two million dollar independent album cycle at
20:30
Speaker 3: that time, with no label, no management, no music videos,
20:34
Speaker 3: just a short documentary around the project. And so it
20:38
Speaker 3: was important to make sure that there was one exclusive
20:41
Speaker 3: hub where they could get the product, and that the
20:45
Speaker 3: gateway to that hub was for them to just simply
20:50
Speaker 3: earnest what's up.
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23:39
Speaker 3: Introduce themselves so that for the first time, instead of
23:42
Speaker 3: having an anonymous following, I could actually have a following
23:47
Speaker 3: where every single interaction had a name and email, a
23:51
Speaker 3: phone number, a city, a birthday associated with that.
23:55
Speaker 4: Yeah, because a lot of times you hear people say
23:57
Speaker 4: we have hardcore fans, right, but they just go to
23:59
Speaker 4: show and like maybe there's fifteen thousand people in a city.
24:02
Speaker 4: You leave that city, you have no idea you don't
24:04
Speaker 4: know any of them unless they pay for a package
24:06
Speaker 4: and they met you backstage or something like that. That
24:08
Speaker 4: doesn't happen even if you've sold records, like there was
24:11
Speaker 4: no way to track, Like hey Tuanisa from Pennsylvania, Like
24:15
Speaker 4: she bought my album when I you know what I'm saying. So,
24:17
Speaker 4: like your mindset going in was like, let me find
24:20
Speaker 4: the core, core base, and then and make advantage of
24:23
Speaker 4: that off of that.
24:25
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, that's that's the foundation of any great business.
24:28
Speaker 3: That's the foundation of any great audiences. Who is your core,
24:32
Speaker 3: your core? Not only are they going to be your
24:35
Speaker 3: greatest supporters, they will also be your greatest evangelists. And
24:38
Speaker 3: so when you have a relationship with both your greatest
24:42
Speaker 3: supporters and greatest evangelists, then that therefore creates the kind
24:49
Speaker 3: of the kind of foundation for growth and scale that
24:55
Speaker 3: I think every single business, whether you're a personal business,
24:58
Speaker 3: whether you're in financial services, whether you're selling insurance, whether
25:02
Speaker 3: you're doing business development for a startup, when you have
25:05
Speaker 3: that core and that core is pleased with your product
25:09
Speaker 3: or service, and that core is also evangelizing for you,
25:13
Speaker 3: they're going to bring you referrals, and then you scale
25:17
Speaker 3: that exact flywheel, and anyone that's studied Amazon understands sort
25:22
Speaker 3: of that flywheel concept, that flywheel starts to starts to
25:26
Speaker 3: start to work, and that's where you get the kind
25:28
Speaker 3: of Amazon scale. And I believe that that should be
25:31
Speaker 3: applicable to anyone that's starting a business. And I would
25:35
Speaker 3: say the ability to manage that is even more possible
25:43
Speaker 3: when the scale is small. So when you're first starting,
25:47
Speaker 3: you should really just be enjoying the opportunity and the luxury,
25:52
Speaker 3: if you will, of having that kind of relationship with
25:55
Speaker 3: just your first twenty customers, your first two hundred customers,
25:59
Speaker 3: your first five thousand customers, at the scale of Jeff Bezos.
26:03
Speaker 3: Let's be real, he actually knows what all of us
26:06
Speaker 3: are doing on Amazon, and at the same time, he
26:10
Speaker 3: only knows that when he's able to log in and
26:13
Speaker 3: actually pull up that record. Same for let's call it
26:16
Speaker 3: Delta Airlines, same for you know, yeah, they can definitely
26:22
Speaker 3: see your activity. The reason why I like the Delta
26:24
Speaker 3: Airlines example is because Delta's data about you is really
26:29
Speaker 3: I would say, it's very specific to their business relationship
26:34
Speaker 3: with you. Right, Amazon and Facebook, I would say, you
26:38
Speaker 3: know the reason why they've ended up in Congress and
26:42
Speaker 3: ended up with a lot of questions. Is because you know,
26:45
Speaker 3: are they collecting more data than they need to have
26:49
Speaker 3: that business relationship with you. The reason why I love
26:52
Speaker 3: Delta is that Delta just knows, Okay, my relationship, my
26:56
Speaker 3: business relationship with Ryan Leslie is is based on him flying,
27:02
Speaker 3: whether it's flying on you know, Chartered Aircraft, Delta, Private Jets,
27:06
Speaker 3: sky Access or you know, Diamond Medallion member or million
27:10
Speaker 3: mile or whatever it is. And they keep their data
27:15
Speaker 3: really focused on the business relationship with me and how
27:18
Speaker 3: to serve me better. Now, in the in the in
27:21
Speaker 3: defense of Jeff Bezos or Mark Zuckerberg, they also believe
27:27
Speaker 3: that they need to collect more data to better serve
27:30
Speaker 3: their audiences. So they need to know, Hey, Ryan doesn't
27:33
Speaker 3: like this, so I'm not going to serve him ads
27:35
Speaker 3: that look like they're the same with Google, or yeah, yeah,
27:39
Speaker 3: Ryan doesn't like this, so I'm not gonna recommend this
27:41
Speaker 3: to him on Amazon. The tricky part is when you
27:45
Speaker 3: know is your Echo device listening to you, is your
27:49
Speaker 3: you know Apple devices.
27:52
Speaker 4: One thousand, there's gotta be a mic and the phone.
27:55
Speaker 4: I'm telling you, like, there'll be conversations and it won't
27:57
Speaker 4: even be me talking about it. I could be in
27:59
Speaker 4: the room with somebody. Let's are they're talking about getting
28:01
Speaker 4: a new oven, like I'm telling you, like I go
28:03
Speaker 4: to my phone in the first ad will be like
28:05
Speaker 4: a best buy now.
28:05
Speaker 2: But the great thing is like they're creating not to
28:08
Speaker 2: go off topic, but really not off topic. The crazy
28:10
Speaker 2: thing that happened to me when I really started to
28:11
Speaker 2: get scared about technology is that I was on the phone.
28:14
Speaker 2: I think I might have been on the phone with you, Troy,
28:16
Speaker 2: and I was talking about something like, let's say, like
28:18
Speaker 2: a vacation in Jamaica or something like that, right, but
28:20
Speaker 2: on my phone. So after the conversation I'm verbally talking
28:24
Speaker 2: about this, I go on my laptop, which is a
28:26
Speaker 2: complete not an Apple device at all. It's like a Toshiba,
28:29
Speaker 2: and I go on Google and it's like a vacation
28:32
Speaker 2: for Jamaica thing that pops up. So I'm like, how
28:34
Speaker 2: did that transfer from my iPhone to a Tshiba laptop
28:37
Speaker 2: in five minutes? Like it's crazy, how did that happen?
28:41
Speaker 3: Yeah? So I mean, listen, the fact that the largest
28:46
Speaker 3: technology companies are doing this at scale, and when we
28:50
Speaker 3: talk about the scale Facebook, WhatsApp, Instagram managing hundreds of
28:56
Speaker 3: millions of people. That for me, is just an indicator
28:59
Speaker 3: that a the technology exists for relationship management at scale,
29:06
Speaker 3: So technology already exists, and B for someone that has
29:10
Speaker 3: any level of ingenuity, that technology can be leveraged on
29:14
Speaker 3: a personal and business level, no matter the scale of
29:18
Speaker 3: your business. So what that means is as long as Google,
29:23
Speaker 3: as long as WhatsApp, as long as Instagram, as long
29:26
Speaker 3: as Dropbox can have six seven hundred million, maybe a
29:31
Speaker 3: billion users and it's all managed. And when you log
29:34
Speaker 3: into your Gmail account, it's not mixed in with somebody
29:37
Speaker 3: else's email, it's all your it's all very well organized.
29:40
Speaker 3: When you long into your Google Drive, it's all well organized.
29:43
Speaker 3: The fact that the technology infrastructure exists, the fact that
29:47
Speaker 3: the technology infrastructure is now being productized. So a lot
29:52
Speaker 3: of your favorite businesses are running on Amazon Web services.
29:55
Speaker 3: So whatever Amazon is using to run their back end,
30:01
Speaker 3: you can also just subscribe to that service and run
30:04
Speaker 3: your back end that way. So my excitement for this,
30:09
Speaker 3: especially for our community, is as long as you have
30:13
Speaker 3: the ingenuity, like I said, and you have the vision,
30:17
Speaker 3: and you have the blueprint, because the blueprint has already
30:20
Speaker 3: been laid. Here's how you actually can manage six hundred
30:23
Speaker 3: million people. Then there really once again, the only limitation
30:29
Speaker 3: is really you. The only limitation is how great of
30:33
Speaker 3: a team can you put together? The only limitation is
30:36
Speaker 3: how big is your vision? The only limitation is how
30:40
Speaker 3: great are the relationships you could put around you to
30:42
Speaker 3: believe in your vision. And so, you know, we watched
30:44
Speaker 3: Steve Stout go out to Silicon Valley and raise seventy
30:48
Speaker 3: million to make the record company of the future. We've
30:51
Speaker 3: watched you know, two kids from Brazil who built the
30:54
Speaker 3: PayPal of Brazil come and build a credit card company
30:57
Speaker 3: called brex turn it into a one point one billion
31:00
Speaker 3: business in two years, right, And so yeah, you know teenagers, right.
31:04
Speaker 3: And so that's what I'm saying is for us as
31:07
Speaker 3: a community, it's important to a understand that the knowledge
31:11
Speaker 3: exists and the information is just readily available and it's abundant.
31:16
Speaker 3: Number two, though, is the limitation that you place on
31:20
Speaker 3: yourself is going to be directly correlated to the kind
31:24
Speaker 3: of impact and change that you actually can make in
31:28
Speaker 3: the world. And so I believe that it is time
31:31
Speaker 3: for us. You know, people say hey, you should dream big.
31:33
Speaker 3: I'm saying dream bigger. I'm saying that as long as
31:38
Speaker 3: Amazon can be what it has become, then whoever is
31:42
Speaker 3: coming next because of the speed of technology, they're going
31:46
Speaker 3: to be able to build the Amazon or the Facebook
31:49
Speaker 3: or the Google or the Instagram of the future in
31:51
Speaker 3: half the time or a quarter of the time. They
31:54
Speaker 3: just need to a have a vision that's big enough,
31:57
Speaker 3: and b be very intentional around the relations and ships
32:00
Speaker 3: that they build around the actual vision, and those people
32:05
Speaker 3: have to buy into that vision. And that could be
32:07
Speaker 3: you know, your vision for yourself as a music artist,
32:10
Speaker 3: your vision for yourself as an entrepreneur, your vision for
32:12
Speaker 3: yourself as a software developer, as a medical doctor, as
32:16
Speaker 3: an astronaut, whatever your vision is, You've got to put
32:19
Speaker 3: great people around you, the best people around you, because
32:22
Speaker 3: the best people actually attract one another because they're all
32:26
Speaker 3: united in this concept that they want to impact the
32:28
Speaker 3: world in the same way that you do, which is
32:31
Speaker 3: on the greatest scale.
32:33
Speaker 4: I think that's one of the things that you kind
32:35
Speaker 4: of preach and I love it. It's like there's a
32:36
Speaker 4: bunch of people over here that have the ideas. They
32:39
Speaker 4: just need to find the people with the capital to
32:40
Speaker 4: help them get out those ideas and relationships is something
32:43
Speaker 4: that you're big on, right, And that's what I mean
32:45
Speaker 4: pretty much super Phone is based off of that, right,
32:47
Speaker 4: And I know you have this dispyramid of relationships. Yeah,
32:54
Speaker 4: I'm interested because in the pyramid you start with obviously
32:58
Speaker 4: at the bottom of the social media.
33:01
Speaker 3: Well, I would say that social media is almost like
33:04
Speaker 3: a virtual representation of walking around the streets of New York. Right,
33:09
Speaker 3: So anyone that you see on the streets of New York,
33:11
Speaker 3: or riding the trains or however you're walking around New York,
33:15
Speaker 3: you actually do have the option of speaking to them, right.
33:21
Speaker 3: So you could be in Times Square and you know
33:23
Speaker 3: it's ten twenty thousand people in Times Square. As long
33:26
Speaker 3: as they're standing there and walking the same street with you,
33:29
Speaker 3: you have the option of speaking with them. Whether they're
33:32
Speaker 3: going to speak to you is up to them. You
33:37
Speaker 3: have the option same on the internet, right, social media, Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram,
33:42
Speaker 3: whatever social platform you're on. As long as they're there
33:45
Speaker 3: and they're sharing, you also have the option of reaching
33:49
Speaker 3: out and speaking to them, whether it's through a direct message,
33:51
Speaker 3: whether it's in a comment, whether it's in a retweet
33:53
Speaker 3: or reply, whatever it is. They obviously have the option
33:57
Speaker 3: of whether they would like to respond. The connectivity is there,
34:02
Speaker 3: so I would say the expected response. And that's why
34:06
Speaker 3: you just said, oh in New York, because there's already
34:09
Speaker 3: the building, but it's already built in the expected response time.
34:13
Speaker 3: So once you start on social media and you're basically
34:16
Speaker 3: and that's basically a virtual representation of what's happening in
34:20
Speaker 3: the world. If you're just walking around, the expected response
34:25
Speaker 3: time or the expectation for a response is very low.
34:30
Speaker 3: Once you can move up and you actually can get
34:33
Speaker 3: an email address, that expectation for a response goes up.
34:38
Speaker 4: Yeah, so you went social media. I think you said MS.
34:42
Speaker 3: Email, right, so you get from DMS to email. The
34:45
Speaker 3: beauty of email as well is the fact that nine
34:48
Speaker 3: times out of ten when you get someone's email, you've
34:51
Speaker 3: been introduced by someone. So you say, like, just how
34:53
Speaker 3: I say, Hey, put me in touch with your guy
34:56
Speaker 3: from the R and B and he's doing texting. I'm
34:59
Speaker 3: going to get a warm introduction, so it's not just
35:01
Speaker 3: me reaching out randomly. Yeah, I'm getting a warm introduction
35:05
Speaker 3: on email, right, That can also happen on text. What
35:08
Speaker 3: I like about text though, is the fact that text
35:11
Speaker 3: allows you to turn up from texting to a phone
35:14
Speaker 3: conversation very quickly. And when you have that kind of rapport,
35:20
Speaker 3: you're really going to see who wants to work with you. Yeah,
35:23
Speaker 3: when you can take stock of who actually answers your
35:28
Speaker 3: phone call, especially in twenty twenty, who's actually going to
35:30
Speaker 3: answer the phone call?
35:31
Speaker 2: Right?
35:32
Speaker 3: And then that continues up the pyramid. Okay, yo, we
35:35
Speaker 3: had a phone call. Hey, look, why don't you pull
35:37
Speaker 3: up at this time? You got that in person, and
35:40
Speaker 3: then you continue moving up the pyramid from this.
35:42
Speaker 2: So yeah, I want to talk about superform, But before that,
35:46
Speaker 2: I wanted to go back to that. You said you
35:47
Speaker 2: made two million dollars after off that album when you
35:51
Speaker 2: took it off, So can you detail, like how did
35:53
Speaker 2: you do that? Was it through e merged? Was it
35:55
Speaker 2: through live shows? A combination of everything live lit? I've
36:00
Speaker 2: made up the majority live shows. Yeah.
36:02
Speaker 3: So when I put my number on Twitter and say hey,
36:04
Speaker 3: everybody shoot me a text, there were thirty five thousand
36:07
Speaker 3: people that texted in the first response that everyone got.
36:12
Speaker 3: And whether you're texting, you know you texted me for
36:14
Speaker 3: the first time, or you see any of these other celebs.
36:17
Speaker 3: I mean they're now six seven years later, everybody finally
36:20
Speaker 3: caught on.
36:20
Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying.
36:22
Speaker 3: The first response is it needs to be automated right
36:26
Speaker 3: for you to be able to manage the scale, And
36:29
Speaker 3: that first response is always thanks for texting. I would
36:32
Speaker 3: love to know who you are, so please, you know,
36:35
Speaker 3: put your information in my phone right because I'm not
36:37
Speaker 3: gonna type everybody's information. So here's a form you can
36:40
Speaker 3: you can actually put your information in my phone so
36:42
Speaker 3: I know who's even texting me at that point. The
36:47
Speaker 3: difference I would say between my twenty thirteen campaign and
36:53
Speaker 3: the campaigns that I'm seeing now is that there was
36:57
Speaker 3: a very specific intent captured at the initiation of the conversation.
37:03
Speaker 3: So I didn't just say, hey, here's my number, shoot
37:05
Speaker 3: me a text.
37:05
Speaker 4: What's up.
37:06
Speaker 3: I said, look, shoot me a text to get my
37:09
Speaker 3: new album. So they shot me a text. I already
37:13
Speaker 3: know the reason they're texting is to give new product.
37:16
Speaker 3: What's your information? Once I have the information, here's the
37:19
Speaker 3: link to get the album. Once that intent is captured,
37:22
Speaker 3: then you have an incredibly high conversion rate, so one
37:25
Speaker 3: out of every two about seventeen thousand people actually bought
37:27
Speaker 3: that record. They bought it for ten dollars. That's one
37:29
Speaker 3: hundred and seventy thousand, right. The difference though, is that
37:33
Speaker 3: I now have a rolodex, a record, a ledger of
37:37
Speaker 3: every single person that's willing to actually spend money with
37:40
Speaker 3: me directly. So now not only do you I have names,
37:44
Speaker 3: not only do you have emails, not only to have
37:46
Speaker 3: telephone numbers, I have city and state and country information.
37:52
Speaker 3: So now I'm going on tour.
37:53
Speaker 4: Got the real goal?
37:55
Speaker 3: You going on tour. People go to concerts because it
38:00
Speaker 3: is a social experience. So yeah, you might go to
38:03
Speaker 3: the concert. If none of your friends want to go,
38:05
Speaker 3: you still figure out a where you go by yourself.
38:07
Speaker 3: But you're still in a room with a bunch of people.
38:09
Speaker 3: You guys are connected by the fact that you appreciate
38:12
Speaker 3: the artist that's on stage. For me, in that situation,
38:16
Speaker 3: even though only seventeen thousand people in my phone actually
38:19
Speaker 3: bought my record, they all brought a friend or two
38:23
Speaker 3: or three or five to the concerts. When I announced them,
38:27
Speaker 3: we sold forty thousand tickets sixty euros a ticket.
38:30
Speaker 4: You could do the math. That's like five albums right there.
38:35
Speaker 3: You know, and so it's really just and like I said,
38:39
Speaker 3: you know, there's obviously ancillary income that happens from that.
38:42
Speaker 3: There's publishing revenue and merchandise, et cetera. For me, you know,
38:48
Speaker 3: I really prefer digital goods because you know, there's a
38:54
Speaker 3: cost of goods. You know, when you have merchandise, and
38:57
Speaker 3: there's a cost of inventory, there's a cost of shipping.
39:00
Speaker 3: So digital goods for me have always been my preference
39:05
Speaker 3: just because they have unlimited scale and as long as
39:08
Speaker 3: you're delivering value, hopefully your content is gonna be ever green.
39:12
Speaker 3: And so that's why I always I always remind an
39:16
Speaker 3: artist that even though you may feel like your music
39:20
Speaker 3: is outdated to you, it's actually brand new for the
39:26
Speaker 3: person who's hearing it for the first time. And the
39:29
Speaker 3: reality is that even if you went platinum, there is
39:34
Speaker 3: still a large number of people around the world who
39:40
Speaker 3: have yet to have even heard your record one time.
39:43
Speaker 3: So you have the ability in music, which is always
39:46
Speaker 3: why I say, look, just create the best music you
39:48
Speaker 3: possibly can, because great music is ever green, you know.
39:52
Speaker 3: And so you know, I'm doing some real estate development
39:58
Speaker 3: and investments in and so you know, sometimes you'll walk
40:02
Speaker 3: into some of the whether it's the mom and pop
40:04
Speaker 3: stores or just the bodegas or wherever, and they'll be
40:07
Speaker 3: playing some great, you know, old school music. I've never
40:10
Speaker 3: heard the record before. I'm putting my shazama up because
40:13
Speaker 3: for me, it's still that experience of discovering that music
40:16
Speaker 3: for the first time. It's thirty forty years old.
40:18
Speaker 4: You know.
40:18
Speaker 2: I love what you said as far as like, how
40:20
Speaker 2: many people don't know you? Because that happened, I realized that,
40:24
Speaker 2: like now with the podcast has become very popular, especially
40:27
Speaker 2: in our community, and we went to an event curl Fest.
40:29
Speaker 2: I don't know if you've heard of it, but yeah,
40:31
Speaker 2: one of our guests on the podcast, a friend of all,
40:33
Speaker 2: she does it. So we had curl Fest this year
40:35
Speaker 2: and it's like twenty thousand women and not a lot
40:38
Speaker 2: of men, and like at least probably like twenty twenty
40:42
Speaker 2: people came up to us like, yeah, we love your podcast.
40:44
Speaker 2: So at first, like this is dope, Like we feel like,
40:46
Speaker 2: you know, we made it. But then I'm thinking twenty
40:50
Speaker 2: people recognized us, which is dope, But there's twenty thousand
40:53
Speaker 2: people here, Like how many people? We still got so
40:55
Speaker 2: much more to penetrate.
40:57
Speaker 4: Day I tell them every day, Like my life is
41:00
Speaker 4: so much duality. Like I go to work, most of
41:02
Speaker 4: my co workers don't even know I do a podcast.
41:04
Speaker 4: When I walk down the street, most people don't even
41:05
Speaker 4: know I'm a teacher. But like there are rare cads,
41:08
Speaker 4: like we're in Houston and somebody will say, oh, you know,
41:10
Speaker 4: I love your podcast. It's like, this is cool, but
41:13
Speaker 4: now we got so much concenetration.
41:16
Speaker 2: You cannot get thinking that you like made it because yeah,
41:18
Speaker 2: there's always a bunch of people that don't have no clue.
41:21
Speaker 3: Yeah, and also just to be just to keep it
41:24
Speaker 3: one hundred, you still can be ridiculously wealthy just from
41:28
Speaker 3: a niche audience. You know, I would say that you know,
41:33
Speaker 3: they're they're there exist a number of gen zers that
41:40
Speaker 3: may not even know who Oprah is.
41:42
Speaker 2: Right, that's the fact.
41:43
Speaker 3: The audience though that she's created, that's her niche audience,
41:46
Speaker 3: and that's a that's a loyal audience. And that audience
41:51
Speaker 3: is not just limited to the viewers, it's also limited
41:53
Speaker 3: to the television executives that love her content and want
41:58
Speaker 3: to syndicate it. Right, And so I think that you know,
42:03
Speaker 3: the I would say the conundrum of scale, or the dilemma,
42:08
Speaker 3: if you will, of scale is unless you really have
42:12
Speaker 3: the technological infrastructure to have a direct relationship with each
42:17
Speaker 3: one of your listeners at scale, you're better off having
42:20
Speaker 3: a manageable, manageable audience in terms of size, so that
42:25
Speaker 3: you can actually have a depth of a relationship with
42:28
Speaker 3: those folks. I have folks, you know. You look at
42:32
Speaker 3: my socials, my socials compared to the biggest stars or
42:38
Speaker 3: influencers on Instagram. I'm sitting at three hundred and sixty
42:41
Speaker 3: thousand followers.
42:43
Speaker 4: I know that.
42:43
Speaker 3: In my core though, I have folks that have spent
42:46
Speaker 3: four or five, six, seven, ten thousand dollars with me,
42:49
Speaker 3: and I know every dollar they spent, I know the
42:51
Speaker 3: products they like, et cetera. And so you know that
42:55
Speaker 3: depth of relationship on it. And that's sort of in
42:59
Speaker 3: any than any vertical. In any circumstance, the depth of
43:03
Speaker 3: relationship is always going to yield I would say, just
43:06
Speaker 3: a greater reward in general.
43:08
Speaker 4: Sometimes less is more.
43:11
Speaker 2: My graduates from my school being forced bad drop drop
43:17
Speaker 2: drop bad drop b drop.
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