Latest / ContraMinds Podcast - Unlocking Personal Growth and Professional Excellence / Staying Relevant For Creative Excellence | R Sridhar | Ep 013

Transcript

Staying Relevant For Creative Excellence | R Sridhar | Ep 013 · ContraMinds Podcast - Unlocking Personal Growth and Professional Excellence

0:00
SPEAKER_00: On Brookbond, there was an instant coffee brand that we were handling.
0:04
SPEAKER_00: I made some recommendations to the client and they fogged me off.
0:08
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
0:09
SPEAKER_00: And every month Mr.
0:11
SPEAKER_00: I used to come for a meeting, and uh and then before we go to the meeting, I had to debrief him, seeing what happened.
0:18
SPEAKER_00: So I told him on that brand, this is what happened, and this is the recommendation.
0:21
SPEAKER_00: He said, Very good recommendations called.
0:24
SPEAKER_00: What happened?
0:24
SPEAKER_00: I said, They haven't about it.
0:27
SPEAKER_00: So I went there.
0:28
unknown: Mr.
0:28
SPEAKER_00: I also said, and Mr.
0:30
SPEAKER_00: Ayer casually made the same recommendation.
0:33
SPEAKER_00: Now the client turned around and said, You know, honey, this is the reason why we look forward to your visits.
0:39
SPEAKER_00: He's such a brilliant thought.
0:41
SPEAKER_00: It never occurred to us.
0:42
SPEAKER_00: So I came and told Mr.
0:43
SPEAKER_00: I very frustrated because this is the same recommendation I made to them.
0:47
SPEAKER_00: He said, Listen, the insight is that it's not the recommendation per se, but the credibility that goes with the recommendation that comes out of experience and relationship.
1:00
SPEAKER_00: So they bought it from me because they trust me based on my experience and relationship with them.
1:07
SPEAKER_00: Now, your job as a manager is to build that credibility, build that relationship.
1:13
SPEAKER_00: What you have done is you're only intellectually worried about the recommendation.
1:17
SPEAKER_00: You have not spent time building the relationship.
1:21
SPEAKER_01: This episode of the Super Thema show was made possible by the great co at MovingWorld.
1:29
SPEAKER_01: Moving World provides a global technology platform built by out-of-command advertising experts automating the process of planning, buying, executing, and measuring out-of-form characters.
1:43
SPEAKER_01: Moving forward, calculating data, and experience.
2:00
SPEAKER_01: Moving forward, test measure, lead and implement moving audiences across the world.
2:12
SPEAKER_01: Who are your mentors?
2:14
SPEAKER_01: What did you learn from?
2:17
SPEAKER_00: I have several mentors in my life.
2:22
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
2:23
SPEAKER_00: But some of them have had far more significant impact on my life than some of the others.
2:30
SPEAKER_00: First is my father.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: The reason why I'm mentioning my father is that he had a huge impact on my career at a critical moment in my life.
2:41
SPEAKER_00: I am a BSC physics and mathematics student.
2:46
SPEAKER_00: Till BSC, I was a first-class student all my life.
2:50
SPEAKER_00: BAC final exam, I don't know what went wrong.
2:56
SPEAKER_00: Last day of the exam, I came home and my father came back from work and he asked me how did it go?
3:02
SPEAKER_00: And uh we had a very good relationship.
3:04
SPEAKER_00: I could be very open and frank with him.
3:06
SPEAKER_00: So I said, bad, and he was a man of precision.
3:11
SPEAKER_00: And he said, How bad is bad?
3:13
SPEAKER_00: So I said, It's so bad, I might either get a third class or I'll fail.
3:20
SPEAKER_00: So my brother was there, my sister was there, my mom was there.
3:24
SPEAKER_00: They were all stunned because I was so forthright with him.
3:27
SPEAKER_00: Nobody said anything, we had dinner, so all that.
3:30
SPEAKER_00: Next day he was leaving for work.
3:32
SPEAKER_00: So he asked me, he said, What do you want to do now?
3:35
SPEAKER_00: Do you want to study further or do you want to go to work?
3:39
SPEAKER_00: So I said, I want to go to work.
3:43
SPEAKER_00: So he said, Well, then you start looking for a job from today.
3:48
SPEAKER_00: I said, Who will give me a job?
3:50
SPEAKER_00: Because I haven't got my results.
3:52
SPEAKER_00: He said, That's the point.
3:54
SPEAKER_00: The day the results are out.
3:56
SPEAKER_00: You're either a failed BSC or a third-class BSE, and nobody will give you a job.
4:01
SPEAKER_00: So you have to beat the results.
4:05
SPEAKER_00: Lesson number one.
4:07
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
4:09
SPEAKER_00: So you won't believe it.
4:12
SPEAKER_00: I started applying for jobs within the first week of my applying for a job.
4:17
SPEAKER_00: I got a job with a management consultant.
4:20
SPEAKER_00: Okay, as a trainee.
4:24
SPEAKER_00: So two months past, I was doing quite well.
4:29
SPEAKER_00: Essential thing that the job was, he would interview candidates for hiring for Walshandangar group.
4:35
SPEAKER_00: I had to observe the candidates when he asked them the questions.
4:38
SPEAKER_00: I had to note down everything that this fellow said.
4:41
SPEAKER_00: What he said, how he looked, what was his body language.
4:44
SPEAKER_00: This is what I had to tell him.
4:46
SPEAKER_00: And he would ask some very awkward questions to this guy.
4:49
SPEAKER_00: Like, for instance, he will say, What are your favorite books you read?
4:52
SPEAKER_00: So they'll give some very high-soluting names.
4:56
SPEAKER_00: He said, What about porno?
4:57
SPEAKER_00: What kind of pornography have you read?
4:59
SPEAKER_00: And then the guy, the guy will squirm.
5:02
SPEAKER_00: Like now, after the interview is over, he will ask me, What did you think?
5:09
SPEAKER_00: So I will give my opinion about the candidate.
5:11
SPEAKER_00: He said, Listen, you yourself are a funny guy, right?
5:15
SPEAKER_00: You have no experience.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: I'm not asking you about your opinion about the candidate.
5:19
SPEAKER_00: I want you to tell me what did you observe in terms of what he did when I asked him awkward questions.
5:27
SPEAKER_00: So he said, Your job is to observe like a camera on the wall.
5:32
SPEAKER_00: I don't want your opinions.
5:34
SPEAKER_00: Don't use your brain.
5:35
SPEAKER_00: Just tell me.
5:36
SPEAKER_00: This is my first lesson.
5:39
SPEAKER_00: What a fantastic lesson to be able to observe people without judgment.
5:45
SPEAKER_00: Right?
5:46
SPEAKER_00: And then add judgment later.
5:49
SPEAKER_01: So uh when you're really talking about mentors, uh, how did you land up advertising?
5:57
SPEAKER_01: Because you're a you're a legendary direct marketer in India, you've had uh some great career in uh you know uh in Ogilvi, you were uh you had a fantastic career.
6:10
SPEAKER_01: And uh, how did you land up in an advertising job?
6:14
SPEAKER_00: I my first job was with Crompton Greaves in their uh sales division selling lighting fittings and all that, and it the job was in Pune.
6:24
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I had a princely salary of 450 rupees per month and uh that the first time I was going to live outside my home.
6:33
SPEAKER_00: My father said excellent job, uh opportunity to learn.
6:37
SPEAKER_00: Most important lesson is that you have to be able to live within your means.
6:43
SPEAKER_00: Don't expect me to send money.
6:46
SPEAKER_00: Lesson number one.
6:48
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
6:50
SPEAKER_00: 150 rupees, it was really touch and go.
6:53
SPEAKER_00: Beginning of the month, you used to go to five-star restaurants, second week you'll go to Udapi.
6:58
SPEAKER_00: Last week with the tea in biscuits, glucose biscuits.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: That's the kind of life I led.
7:04
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
7:05
SPEAKER_00: Desperate life, it was all right.
7:07
SPEAKER_00: I learned a lot.
7:08
SPEAKER_00: I learned a lot because I had to do be on the field, I dealt with uh dealers, and then I was given the responsibility to deal with uh corporate customers.
7:16
SPEAKER_00: I was selling lighting fittings and lamps and all that kind of thing.
7:19
SPEAKER_00: I think DJ CD orders or government orders, you see the kind of thing.
7:23
SPEAKER_00: So huge lessons.
7:25
SPEAKER_00: Then after a while, I said this phone, 50 rupees is nothing here.
7:29
SPEAKER_00: What's the point?
7:30
SPEAKER_00: Then I saw an ad by Frank Simoy's advertising asking for management trainings.
7:37
SPEAKER_00: So I applied.
7:38
SPEAKER_00: And uh I didn't know anything about advertising, but stipend was 1500 rupees a month.
7:45
SPEAKER_00: That was thrice my salary.
7:47
SPEAKER_00: I said, plus I will stay at home, you know, no cost.
7:50
SPEAKER_00: So I applied and I got the job at Frank Simoy's.
7:53
SPEAKER_00: The only reason why Frank Sumois took me on is because of my BSC degree.
7:59
SPEAKER_00: Right.
7:59
SPEAKER_00: He was having an account, Siemens account, which is full of technical stuff.
8:04
SPEAKER_00: And none of his people understood anything of this.
8:07
SPEAKER_00: You know, they wouldn't know the difference between Ohms and Watts and uh ampereids and all that kind of stuff.
8:14
SPEAKER_00: And then because of physics, I knew all this.
8:16
SPEAKER_00: And the engineers were a strange lot by themselves, uh very meticulous guys, German guys.
8:21
SPEAKER_00: So I come back to the office, right?
8:24
SPEAKER_00: And then I put my cab fare, and the accountant says, What did you do?
8:29
SPEAKER_00: Uh I went to Siemens for a meeting.
8:31
SPEAKER_00: What was the job?
8:32
SPEAKER_00: This was it.
8:32
SPEAKER_00: Was it approved?
8:33
SPEAKER_00: Not approved.
8:34
SPEAKER_00: Why?
8:34
SPEAKER_00: Because they made a mistake.
8:35
SPEAKER_00: Then why should I pay you a taxi fare?
8:37
SPEAKER_00: Right?
8:38
SPEAKER_00: So that was one.
8:39
SPEAKER_00: And then Frank Simois uh had encouraged me to read a lot of books.
8:44
SPEAKER_00: Uh so he had given me a whole lot of names: David Ogilvy, Bill Burnback, all sorts of things.
8:50
SPEAKER_00: Then my brother sent me all the books from US.
8:53
SPEAKER_00: So I was one of the few people who read all the books.
8:56
SPEAKER_00: So these were my early lessons.
8:59
SPEAKER_00: So then I joined Ogilvy and the best mentor of the world, Mr.
9:05
SPEAKER_00: Ayer, Mani Ayer.
9:07
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
9:08
SPEAKER_00: Now uh it's a story in terms of how I got the job.
9:13
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
9:13
SPEAKER_00: Now, one of the readers' digest guys told me when I said Frank Smith saying, You're wasting your time here.
9:19
SPEAKER_00: All sudden, then it's a private company here, you can't grow much, and you should go elsewhere.
9:24
SPEAKER_00: So he said, Mr.
9:25
SPEAKER_00: Ayer has just come from Australia, he's taking over Google V.
9:28
SPEAKER_00: Why don't you apply to him?
9:30
SPEAKER_00: Right?
9:31
SPEAKER_00: That's all I knew.
9:32
SPEAKER_00: Then I said, Tell me a little more about this guy.
9:35
SPEAKER_00: Now, this is the important part.
9:36
SPEAKER_00: I said, Tell me a little more about this guy.
9:39
SPEAKER_00: I I mean, I don't know why I asked him that, but intuitively asked.
9:42
SPEAKER_00: He said he's a meticulous man, man, eye for detail, rigorous in his thinking, brilliant strategic thinker, this, that, and all that kind.
9:52
SPEAKER_00: So I said, How do I make the best out of this?
9:56
SPEAKER_00: Right?
9:56
SPEAKER_00: So I spoke to Mr.
9:57
SPEAKER_00: Iar and I said, like, I would like to come and see you, sir.
10:01
SPEAKER_00: He said, not now.
10:03
SPEAKER_00: I put the phone down.
10:05
SPEAKER_00: Then what I did was I prepared a dossier on myself, like a police dossier.
10:10
SPEAKER_00: Okay?
10:11
SPEAKER_00: Everything that you would want to know about the candidate in an interview, I anticipated all his questions, answered all his questions, and put on a dossier.
10:20
SPEAKER_00: Right?
10:21
SPEAKER_00: And finally I got an appointment from him to see him on a particular date at 9 a.m.
10:26
SPEAKER_00: Because office starts at 9:30.
10:28
SPEAKER_00: He lands up at 8:30 and he asked me to see him at 9 a.m.
10:32
SPEAKER_00: Previous evening, I went and handed over my dossier, sealed envelope, confidential mark, and I knew that he leaves the office at about 6:30.
10:40
SPEAKER_00: I was waiting.
10:41
SPEAKER_00: I saw him get into the car, then I rushed into the office and went to his secretary.
10:44
SPEAKER_00: She was cleaning the desk before.
10:46
SPEAKER_00: I said, Mr.
10:47
SPEAKER_00: Ira is expecting this.
10:48
SPEAKER_00: She said, Thank you very much, and she kept it.
10:50
SPEAKER_00: She didn't open it.
10:51
SPEAKER_00: Then I ran away.
10:53
SPEAKER_00: Next day morning, he landed for the interview.
10:56
SPEAKER_00: Right now, she all the papers go to him for study in the night.
11:01
SPEAKER_00: He had read everything before he came.
11:04
SPEAKER_00: Next morning, he went to his office.
11:06
SPEAKER_00: He used to have a round table.
11:08
SPEAKER_00: So as I went in, he said, just sat there for a minute, I'll be back.
11:12
SPEAKER_00: And this was his job, his routine was to go around the office once to check all the tables where people confidential papers are there floating around, then he'll catch the guy and all that kind of stuff.
11:25
SPEAKER_00: At that time, I saw my dossier lying on the table.
11:29
SPEAKER_00: I sort of leaned forward and said, and right at top up corner, there was a small tick mark.
11:35
SPEAKER_00: Then I knew it was on.
11:36
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
11:37
SPEAKER_00: Then when he came to the room, he said, Listen, let's not waste time having any kind of discussion.
11:43
SPEAKER_00: I have now understood enough about you.
11:46
SPEAKER_00: I have spoken to you about Frank.
11:48
SPEAKER_00: I said, You spoke to him, Frank.
11:49
SPEAKER_00: He said, Yeah, you're working for Frank, aren't you?
11:52
SPEAKER_00: Frank and I are good friends.
11:55
SPEAKER_00: I said, What have you done?
11:57
SPEAKER_00: He said, Don't worry.
11:58
SPEAKER_00: Frank thinks you're a great guy.
12:00
SPEAKER_00: And he also thinks it is a good time for you to take a break from Frank, Frank C.
12:04
SPEAKER_00: Moyes, and join a bigger agency.
12:06
SPEAKER_00: Right?
12:06
SPEAKER_00: So he said, I'm willing to give you a job, but I don't know when and where.
12:10
SPEAKER_00: I said, What do I do, Mr.
12:11
SPEAKER_00: Ayer?
12:12
SPEAKER_00: I said, please, you have to wait.
12:13
SPEAKER_00: I said, How long?
12:15
SPEAKER_00: I said, I don't know.
12:17
SPEAKER_00: So I said, Do I have your permission to call you once a week to check if there is any news?
12:23
SPEAKER_00: He said, Okay, call me every Thursday during lunchtime.
12:27
SPEAKER_00: Right?
12:29
SPEAKER_00: I'll call up during lunchtime.
12:30
SPEAKER_00: I say, Mr.
12:31
SPEAKER_00: Ayer, Sridhar here.
12:32
SPEAKER_00: He said, Yep.
12:33
SPEAKER_00: Any news, Mr.
12:34
SPEAKER_00: Ayer?
12:34
SPEAKER_00: No.
12:37
SPEAKER_00: So this went on for a while.
12:39
SPEAKER_00: Finally, he said, Come and see me.
12:41
SPEAKER_00: Then I went, he said, listen, there is a job in Chennai.
12:46
SPEAKER_00: Right?
12:46
SPEAKER_00: Are you willing to go?
12:48
SPEAKER_00: I said, I'm willing to go.
12:49
SPEAKER_00: Because I got married.
12:51
SPEAKER_00: My wife is from Chennai.
12:54
SPEAKER_00: All our relatives were in Chennai, etc.
12:58
SPEAKER_00: We were migrants from south to this thing.
13:00
SPEAKER_00: I had grew up in Bombay, but then Chennai, we tamil was not a problem.
13:03
SPEAKER_00: I studied Tamil in school, no issue at all.
13:06
SPEAKER_00: And he had a very difficult account in Chennai called Dollar Company, head ends.
13:11
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you heard of this.
13:13
SPEAKER_00: Cantankerous client.
13:15
SPEAKER_00: Right?
13:16
SPEAKER_00: And he wanted somebody to go and handle that business.
13:20
SPEAKER_00: So he said, I am putting you, and he didn't tell me anything, but he said, I'm putting you onto one very difficult business.
13:26
SPEAKER_00: If you crack it, then you you made your career.
13:30
SPEAKER_00: So this is it.
13:31
SPEAKER_00: This is the way I got into Ogilby.
13:36
SPEAKER_01: So Shidur, uh when you when you say that uh he's the best person who you look up to, uh, and a lot of things you learned from him.
13:49
SPEAKER_01: Uh, what exactly were the lessons that he taught you about marketing, about brands, about marketing strategy?
13:58
SPEAKER_01: So tell us a little bit of uh your your learnings with Mr.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: Ayer.
14:06
SPEAKER_00: Most important thing is in uh his language was very simple.
14:12
SPEAKER_00: Uh I think uh there is no uh what what will you call he will not use terms from the typical marketing lexicon kind of stuff?
14:26
SPEAKER_00: So he will simplify brands for instance Swami and Sridhar both are South Indians, Swami is also wearing a pair of specs, Sridhar is also wearing his pair of specs.
14:38
SPEAKER_00: His name starts with yes, Sridhar's name is also starting with specs, but both are not the same.
14:44
SPEAKER_00: Why is the difference?
14:47
SPEAKER_00: Right?
14:48
SPEAKER_00: When you start examining the difference, there are some characteristics which make the difference thoughts, beliefs, behavior, all of that makes a difference.
14:58
SPEAKER_00: It's the totality of the person which makes a difference, right?
15:01
SPEAKER_00: So this is the simplicity with which you would explain brands, for instance.
15:06
SPEAKER_00: That's why every singer, for instance, there are plenty of Muradigam players, but there is only one Upayalpuram Sivaram.
15:15
SPEAKER_00: Why is that?
15:17
SPEAKER_00: The Muradingam is the same, the hands are the same, the Tala, the seventh thala, so whatever it is, are the same.
15:25
SPEAKER_00: Right?
15:26
SPEAKER_00: But yet, the way he actually puts the entire process together, there is individuality that comes in there.
15:36
SPEAKER_00: That's the brand.
15:37
SPEAKER_00: How do you imbue your action with your individual characteristics to make meaning for the other person?
15:45
SPEAKER_00: That is the concept of a brand.
15:47
SPEAKER_00: Relevance, timeliness, for it.
15:51
SPEAKER_01: So tell me some incidents where you started learning about brands, uh, how he taught you about advertising, and how it made you grow as an advertising professional.
16:05
SPEAKER_00: First thing is a habit of reading.
16:09
SPEAKER_00: He said, Nobody can go and deliver a lecture without having knowledge.
16:15
SPEAKER_00: Knowledge comes from different sources.
16:18
SPEAKER_00: One is what you observe and learn from things around you, what you learn from your teachers, and what you learn from your own self-study.
16:28
SPEAKER_00: And introspection.
16:31
SPEAKER_00: If you actually look at everything around you, read and then introspect, and then make use of that knowledge to do what you want to do, then learning is learning in action, is a proof of what has happened.
16:48
SPEAKER_00: So he said, book knowledge is of no use to you unless you are able to apply it.
16:53
SPEAKER_00: At the end of the day, knowledge, application, and results must be aligned.
16:59
SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, it's of no use.
17:02
SPEAKER_00: I mean, these are some things that happened earlier.
17:04
SPEAKER_00: There was a huge thing that happened in terms of a turning point in my career with Mr.
17:09
SPEAKER_00: Ayar.
17:09
SPEAKER_00: See, when I was in Chennai, four of us came for a training program to Bombay.
17:15
SPEAKER_00: All right.
17:16
SPEAKER_00: And there was a caravel air crash in 1976.
17:20
SPEAKER_00: Because four of us came and two of us were put in Bombay.
17:23
SPEAKER_00: Murli Muti Narna and I was there, and both of us wanted to stay back after the training program because our families were in Bombay.
17:31
SPEAKER_00: So our manager Tej Kapoor said, Listen, one of you go earlier, the other person go later, so that the office doesn't have both of you missing at the same time.
17:39
SPEAKER_00: So Murli said, I'll go first, and I'll say I'll stay back after the training program.
17:44
SPEAKER_00: It so happened October 11, 1976.
17:48
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I still remember the day.
17:50
SPEAKER_00: I stayed back with my sister.
17:53
SPEAKER_00: The caramel taking off from Bombay crashed.
17:58
unknown: Mr.
17:58
SPEAKER_00: Tej Kapoor, Balaji, and Murli Murti, all three of them died in the aircrash.
18:05
SPEAKER_00: I was a lone survivor.
18:07
SPEAKER_00: And Times of India carried my name in the list of people who died.
18:14
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
18:16
SPEAKER_00: Then when I read the news, I rushed to the office and Mr.
18:19
SPEAKER_00: Ayar saw me and he was so relieved.
18:21
SPEAKER_00: He said, You didn't take that flight.
18:22
SPEAKER_00: No, I said, Mr.
18:23
SPEAKER_00: Ayar, I was not supposed to take the flight.
18:25
SPEAKER_00: He said, Come.
18:26
SPEAKER_00: Then he took me and he said, Are you ready to go back to Chennai?
18:32
SPEAKER_00: How soon can you go back to Chennai?
18:34
SPEAKER_00: Because there was nobody at Chennai, no managing staff.
18:39
SPEAKER_00: I said, You tell me whenever you want me to go, I'll go.
18:42
SPEAKER_00: So he said, Can you take a flight tonight?
18:45
SPEAKER_00: I said, Yes, sir.
18:46
SPEAKER_00: He said, Okay.
18:47
SPEAKER_00: So I took the flight.
18:48
SPEAKER_00: And then thereafter, till the next manager was recruited.
18:53
SPEAKER_00: He brought Mohan Menan.
18:54
SPEAKER_00: You have heard of Mohan Menan?
18:56
SPEAKER_00: He brought Mohan Menan was a writer in Bombay.
18:58
SPEAKER_00: He has brought Mohan Mainan.
19:00
SPEAKER_00: Then he got somebody else for uh you know our direction, etc.
19:04
SPEAKER_00: And then we put the then the team was put back together.
19:09
SPEAKER_00: I was Mr.
19:10
SPEAKER_00: Ayer's first assistant during that period till the next level of Chandru joined later.
19:16
SPEAKER_00: We have Chandrashekar joined later, Sugunaswami joined later, etc.
19:20
SPEAKER_00: Before they came, Mr.
19:22
SPEAKER_00: Ayer was traveling to Chennai every week.
19:27
SPEAKER_00: Every client meeting, I used to be his first student attending the meeting.
19:31
SPEAKER_00: Bini Bangalore was a major client.
19:33
SPEAKER_00: And we had an account called Dollar Company, Headansaw Appointment.
19:38
SPEAKER_00: Great account to work on for learning, pain in the ass in terms of dealing with a client.
19:46
SPEAKER_00: I'll tell you another interesting story about Head Ansa later.
19:49
SPEAKER_00: So Mishraya used to come, and every week I had to send him the progress report.
19:57
SPEAKER_00: Every week I had to send him minutes of the meeting of every meeting I attended.
20:02
SPEAKER_00: And those days there was no email and all that.
20:05
SPEAKER_00: Can you imagine?
20:06
SPEAKER_00: I send the note to him, it will come back by courier, and then when you see it, the page will be bleeding because he would have mocked his comments with reading.
20:16
SPEAKER_00: You feel like you know, sinking down.
20:18
SPEAKER_00: He corrected my language, readability improved, sentence length improved, active voices, a passive voice, huge amount of.
20:28
SPEAKER_00: Then uh the other opportunity was we had an account called Bini's in Bangalore.
20:35
SPEAKER_00: And because of the situation, the office funds were very low.
20:41
SPEAKER_00: So Mr.
20:42
SPEAKER_00: Ayer used to come from Bombay to Chennai by flight.
20:47
SPEAKER_00: Chennai to Bangalore will go by train.
20:52
SPEAKER_00: We didn't want to spend the money.
20:54
SPEAKER_00: So getting into the mail early morning, and then we used to go and stay in a plate called Barton Court on NG Road, no West End and all that.
21:03
SPEAKER_00: He said, your office can't even pay a cup of tea here.
21:06
SPEAKER_00: Why should we spend money on this?
21:08
SPEAKER_00: And we used to eat in roadside restaurants.
21:12
SPEAKER_00: Now, a man of great stature, reputation, but he was so simple.
21:19
SPEAKER_00: And he was the uh MD of Tilbury.
21:23
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
21:24
SPEAKER_00: And I was an account executive.
21:26
SPEAKER_00: Uh later on, he made me a manager.
21:28
SPEAKER_00: For instance, uh, when Bangalore office opened, there was no Bangalore office, okay.
21:33
SPEAKER_00: Uh the business was growing, and uh Brookborn shifted from Calcutta to Bangalore, and they said, Listen, we wanted a Bangalore rep.
21:42
unknown: Mr.
21:43
SPEAKER_00: Ayer said, Why a rep?
21:45
SPEAKER_00: Will we open an office?
21:46
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
21:47
SPEAKER_00: Now I didn't know anything.
21:49
SPEAKER_00: So we went and Connamara Hotel.
21:51
SPEAKER_00: There was Mr.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: Ayer, uh Chandru Bohan Menan and I.
21:56
SPEAKER_00: And Maniar was giving you his grand vision about Ogilvi Grove.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: This, that.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: Then he said, We are going to uh be in uh Brukmont has asked for a uh representative office in Bangalore.
22:08
SPEAKER_00: We said we'll open an office and that.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: I said, What is the relevance of all this?
22:12
SPEAKER_00: Why is he telling me all this?
22:13
SPEAKER_00: Suddenly he looked at me and with his long finger pointed out and said, You will go and run that office.
22:21
SPEAKER_00: I said, What?
22:22
SPEAKER_00: I said, Yeah, you'll go and run that office.
22:26
SPEAKER_00: And you know what they did to run the office?
22:29
SPEAKER_00: They just gave me the power of attorney, right?
22:32
SPEAKER_00: And you go and start.
22:36
SPEAKER_00: Right?
22:37
SPEAKER_00: And then I got a message saying, Go and meet such and such a person.
22:41
SPEAKER_00: Here is an office place to show you and take a call on that.
22:45
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
22:46
SPEAKER_00: So on MG Road, about opposite Ajanta Hotel, there is a Malakshmi chambers.
22:52
SPEAKER_00: On the third floor, there was one office space.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: I went and saw, then he showed me an office space, very awkward kind of place, some 1100 square feet.
23:00
SPEAKER_00: It was an L-shaped office.
23:02
SPEAKER_00: As you enter, it's a long lobby which don't write things.
23:05
SPEAKER_00: You can't lay out anything in that office.
23:07
SPEAKER_00: So I said, can you show me another place?
23:09
SPEAKER_00: He said, There is another place next door which is much bigger.
23:12
SPEAKER_00: That is 1640 square feet.
23:14
SPEAKER_00: This is 1170 square feet.
23:16
SPEAKER_00: I went and saw that.
23:17
SPEAKER_00: That is a far more manageable in terms of office layout and all that kind of stuff.
23:21
SPEAKER_00: So I went, said that uh, made a recommendation, and said, We'll go for the 1640 square feet, whatever it is.
23:29
SPEAKER_00: My finance director said, the first decision you're taking as a manager is to spend more money.
23:37
SPEAKER_00: So I told Mr.
23:38
SPEAKER_00: Ayar, he said, this is what he tells me.
23:40
SPEAKER_00: He said, Listen, that's his job.
23:42
SPEAKER_00: As a finance director, he has to manage money.
23:45
SPEAKER_00: But that's not his decision.
23:47
SPEAKER_00: That decision is mine.
23:50
SPEAKER_00: You tell me what is your decision as a manager.
23:53
SPEAKER_00: So I said, we'll go for the 1640 square.
23:56
SPEAKER_00: He said, go for it.
23:59
SPEAKER_00: No question, sir.
24:02
SPEAKER_00: So huge lessons learned.
24:04
SPEAKER_00: I mean, meticulously, he it's like chiseling.
24:09
SPEAKER_00: He chiseled all the nonsense out of me.
24:13
SPEAKER_00: The biggest nonsense is self-limiting belief.
24:16
SPEAKER_00: The self-limiting belief is that I'm a tambram.
24:19
SPEAKER_00: I'm a devout Tambrain.
24:21
SPEAKER_00: I don't drink, I don't smoke.
24:24
SPEAKER_00: I I I don't know how to carry on a party conversation.
24:27
SPEAKER_00: He said, listen, I didn't hire you because you know how to drink and smoke.
24:31
SPEAKER_00: I hired you because you have this here.
24:35
SPEAKER_00: Right?
24:36
SPEAKER_00: So if there is a party, you call me, I'll do the drinking and all that, you manage the business.
24:42
SPEAKER_00: I will manage relations, relationships, you manage the business.
24:48
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
24:49
SPEAKER_00: At some point later on, you asked me how did you start the direct marketing business?
24:54
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
24:59
SPEAKER_00: On Brookbond, there was an instant coffee brand that we were handling.
25:04
SPEAKER_00: I made some recommendations to the client and they fogged me off.
25:08
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
25:09
SPEAKER_00: And every month Mr.
25:10
SPEAKER_00: Iar used to come for a meeting and uh met, and then before we go to the meeting, I had to debrief him, seeing what happened.
25:17
SPEAKER_00: So I told him on that brand, this is what happened, and this is the recommendation.
25:21
SPEAKER_00: He said, Very good recommendations and all that.
25:23
SPEAKER_00: What happened?
25:24
SPEAKER_00: I said, They haven't about it.
25:26
SPEAKER_00: So I went there.
25:27
unknown: Mr.
25:28
SPEAKER_00: I also said, and Mr.
25:29
SPEAKER_00: Ayer casually made the same recommendation.
25:32
SPEAKER_00: Now the client turned around and said, You know, Money, this is the reason why we look forward to your visits.
25:39
SPEAKER_00: He's such a brilliant thought.
25:40
SPEAKER_00: It never occurred to us.
25:41
SPEAKER_00: So I came and told Mr.
25:42
SPEAKER_00: I'm very frustrated because this is the same recommendation I made to them.
25:46
SPEAKER_00: He said, Listen, the insight is that it's not the recommendation per se, but the credibility that goes with the recommendation that comes out of experience and relationship.
26:00
SPEAKER_00: So they bought it from me because they trust me based on my experience and relationship with them.
26:06
SPEAKER_00: Now, your job as a manager is to build that credibility, build that relationship.
26:13
SPEAKER_00: What you have done is you're only intellectually worried about the recommendation.
26:17
SPEAKER_00: You have not spent time building the relationship.
26:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, huge lesson.
26:21
SPEAKER_01: You also had a chance then to meet David Ogilvy.
26:26
SPEAKER_01: And there was lots of incidents that you talk about and you remember.
26:32
SPEAKER_00: So can you talk about your memories with uh David Ogilvi and uh couple of incidents, very very interesting ones.
26:42
SPEAKER_00: Uh David Ogilvy visited India.
26:45
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
26:46
SPEAKER_00: Now David Ogilvi is a very inquisitive man.
26:49
SPEAKER_00: So when he was he was there in Bombay and he was he came on a long trip to uh India.
26:55
SPEAKER_00: He was there in Bombay and he was supposed to visit offices and all that.
26:58
SPEAKER_00: And one day Mr.
26:59
SPEAKER_00: Ayer called me and said, Listen, this guy is hanging on, and you know, I have so many things to do.
27:06
SPEAKER_00: Not able to concentrate.
27:08
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to send him to Bangalore.
27:10
SPEAKER_00: He's going to be with you for two weeks.
27:12
SPEAKER_00: Or if you want to keep him more.
27:14
SPEAKER_00: I have some important things for me to handle.
27:17
SPEAKER_00: Please look after him.
27:20
SPEAKER_00: I said, Why me?
27:21
SPEAKER_00: He said, Why not you?
27:25
SPEAKER_00: So funny.
27:26
SPEAKER_00: And uh I said, okay.
27:29
SPEAKER_00: So David came, he came to the office, and then we showed him some very good work that we had created on direct.
27:36
SPEAKER_00: Uh Direct was my passion.
27:38
SPEAKER_00: I started that at that time.
27:39
SPEAKER_00: I read books like nobody's business.
27:42
SPEAKER_00: So he said, your strategy is excellent, right?
27:47
SPEAKER_00: Your thinking is very good, your copy is very good, or direction needs a lot of improvement and all that.
27:55
SPEAKER_00: And then one day what he did was he called my secretary, and those days were the days of facts.
28:01
SPEAKER_00: He directed a he sent a fax to Jerry Picolls, who was the head of direct in New York.
28:09
SPEAKER_00: Right?
28:10
SPEAKER_00: Sent a fax to him saying, I have this bright young man sitting here in Bangalore.
28:15
SPEAKER_00: I I would like him to come and spend time with you in New York.
28:19
SPEAKER_00: At least for six months, if not more.
28:21
SPEAKER_00: Now, Jerry Picoles sends a backback.
28:23
SPEAKER_00: Says, Listen, I recommend that he goes to London, he'll get more time with the right people, and Drayton Bird is sitting there.
28:30
SPEAKER_00: You might be better off sending him to Drayton than to send him to New York, because New York, I think, has a lot of things to offer, but doesn't have the heart to offer.
28:43
SPEAKER_00: What a beautiful centre.
28:45
SPEAKER_00: Whereas London will find time for it.
28:50
SPEAKER_00: That's how I landed up in London.
28:52
SPEAKER_00: And there's London, there's Rod Red, Drayton Bird and a whole lot of others.
28:56
SPEAKER_00: I spent six months in London.
29:00
SPEAKER_01: So how did he get into how did you get into direct?
29:03
SPEAKER_01: Because uh when you're meeting David O'Gilly, you are saying that you you were already thinking about direct, right?
29:11
SPEAKER_00: See, the thing is that direct could tell me what was happening to the communication, and I was already reading books, I had read a lot about Claude Hopkins and so on.
29:25
SPEAKER_00: Claude Hopkins was majorly into reserves, right?
29:31
SPEAKER_00: So we were testing, uh, like for instance, uh there was a blood bank in Bangalore.
29:41
SPEAKER_00: Okay, they were not getting enough right people to go and donate blood.
29:45
SPEAKER_00: For instance, the guys who came to donate blood or the guys who came for money, they didn't want the money, guys.
29:51
SPEAKER_00: So we wanted those guys who are genuinely interested in donating blood because they believed in the cause.
29:59
SPEAKER_00: Right?
29:59
SPEAKER_00: So we created a mailer which said that look, uh you know, do you want to save somebody's life?
30:07
SPEAKER_00: Even if you're not a doctor.
30:10
SPEAKER_00: What a line, right?
30:13
SPEAKER_00: And they got the right kind of donors, and this campaign we did for the TTK group.
30:20
SPEAKER_00: Jagu's wife was a major champion for blood donation.
30:25
SPEAKER_00: So we did a lot of charity work on direct.
30:30
SPEAKER_00: Okay, because nobody was going to you know spend money on it.
30:34
SPEAKER_00: That was one.
30:35
SPEAKER_00: Then the major turning point was selling spectrum home computers.
30:40
SPEAKER_00: Computer won't had got spectrum and they were not selling.
30:44
SPEAKER_00: Ram Raj, if you remember Ram Raj's guys, Ram Raj and I met in a flight.
30:50
SPEAKER_00: Okay, Ram Raj said, listen, you say direct this, that, etc.
30:54
SPEAKER_00: I don't know what it does.
30:55
SPEAKER_00: We are trying to sell these spectrum home computers, it's not happening.
30:58
SPEAKER_00: Do you think you can try?
31:00
SPEAKER_00: I said, I'm willing to try, but the thing is, I can't do it free.
31:06
SPEAKER_00: Right?
31:07
SPEAKER_00: You pay for cost.
31:09
SPEAKER_00: I will show you all my bills.
31:12
SPEAKER_00: Right?
31:13
SPEAKER_00: You get the benefit, I learn.
31:15
SPEAKER_00: I get a case study.
31:17
SPEAKER_00: That's a deal.
31:18
SPEAKER_00: He said, fine.
31:19
SPEAKER_00: So, first thing I did was let's go and find out who is the current buyer for Spectrum Home Computers.
31:28
SPEAKER_00: So I told Computer Point to give me the names of all the people who have bought the computer.
31:34
SPEAKER_00: So they gave us 25 names.
31:36
SPEAKER_00: So I had two or three people who worked with me.
31:39
SPEAKER_00: There is a girl called Tina Inos who were there at that time.
31:43
SPEAKER_00: So Tina was my account executive.
31:46
SPEAKER_00: So I told Tina, go and visit these homes and find out what they are doing with the computer.
31:51
SPEAKER_00: Very common sense kind of stuff.
31:54
SPEAKER_00: She went to 12 households.
31:56
SPEAKER_00: She went, she came back with a report, and I said it should be a meticulous note of that.
32:05
SPEAKER_00: That computer had to be connected to the television set, and all the software was on audio cassette.
32:11
SPEAKER_00: The audio cassette player was connected to the home computer.
32:14
SPEAKER_00: That's how it works.
32:16
SPEAKER_00: Everywhere the home computer was packed nicely and kept inside the gotage cupboard.
32:22
SPEAKER_00: And then they showed it to her.
32:23
SPEAKER_00: It was actually brand new.
32:26
SPEAKER_00: It was open, but it was brand new.
32:28
SPEAKER_00: It was hardly used.
32:29
SPEAKER_00: Then she had the intelligence to check the frequency of usage.
32:33
SPEAKER_00: Occasionally on a Sunday afternoon after lunch, instead of playing board games, we try this.
32:40
SPEAKER_00: Kind of, that's all.
32:42
SPEAKER_00: So the home computer is a learning instrument.
32:45
SPEAKER_00: What was not happening?
32:49
SPEAKER_00: Right?
32:50
SPEAKER_00: So I we then did a strategy and said those homes that are using it frequently, why are they using it frequently?
32:58
SPEAKER_00: There are a few who use it frequently.
33:01
SPEAKER_00: So the parents said, education is the only thing we can give this child.
33:10
SPEAKER_00: Education is what we want to invest in.
33:13
SPEAKER_00: So they invested in the spectrum home computer for all the learning lessons.
33:18
SPEAKER_00: So their cassettes, all the software was on science, on music, on mathematics, and things like that.
33:25
SPEAKER_00: Not the games.
33:29
SPEAKER_00: So that changed the entire approach to the promise that we made.
33:38
SPEAKER_00: So the learning was understanding the consumer, his motivation, or what makes him tick, was the guts of communication.
33:48
SPEAKER_00: Then when David saw all this work, he said, You have to go abroad and learn.
33:53
SPEAKER_00: And he's go to, then it was decided I'll go to London.
33:57
SPEAKER_00: And it was good fortune I went to London because Drayton was there.
34:01
SPEAKER_00: Now I stayed there for some seven months or something like that.
34:06
SPEAKER_00: And then I had my hang ups that I don't drink, I don't smoke, and all that.
34:11
SPEAKER_00: But luckily for me, they put me onto a B2B business.
34:16
SPEAKER_00: Xerox business was there.
34:19
SPEAKER_00: There was a market research meeting that happened.
34:21
SPEAKER_00: That was within the first week.
34:23
SPEAKER_00: They said, You please attend this meeting as an observer, tell us what happened.
34:27
SPEAKER_00: Kind of uh there was a major discussion which happened for about one hour and nothing came out of the discussion.
34:34
SPEAKER_00: Then Rod Wright met me in the evening.
34:37
SPEAKER_00: He said, How was your day?
34:39
SPEAKER_00: And I said, This was it.
34:40
SPEAKER_00: He said, Any meeting you attended?
34:41
SPEAKER_00: I said, Yeah.
34:42
SPEAKER_00: What meeting was it?
34:43
SPEAKER_00: Xerox.
34:44
SPEAKER_00: Xerox is a large business.
34:46
SPEAKER_00: So he said, Oh, you attended a Xerox meeting.
34:48
SPEAKER_00: That's very interesting.
34:48
SPEAKER_00: What happened?
34:49
SPEAKER_00: I said there was no outcome of the meeting.
34:51
SPEAKER_00: He said, What do you mean?
34:51
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you to the meeting for a long time, you're saying and there is no outcome.
34:54
SPEAKER_00: He said that there was no outcome.
34:56
SPEAKER_00: So he asked me a question.
34:57
SPEAKER_00: Why do you think it there was no outcome?
34:59
SPEAKER_00: So I said, there was no outcome because we didn't know the right questions to ask.
35:04
SPEAKER_00: So he was shocked.
35:05
SPEAKER_00: So he turned around and said, If you were uh if you are the person leading the meeting, what questions would you have asked?
35:12
SPEAKER_00: So I said, these are the questions you'll ask.
35:14
SPEAKER_00: I will say, as an organization, what is happening to your business today?
35:21
SPEAKER_00: All right, in terms of your reputation, in terms of numbers and your reach and all that kind of stuff.
35:29
SPEAKER_00: All the critical factors you use for measuring your performance.
35:34
SPEAKER_00: So they say this.
35:36
SPEAKER_00: Then I'll say, Okay, are you happy with it?
35:38
SPEAKER_00: No, we are not happy with it.
35:41
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so what will make you happy?
35:43
SPEAKER_00: Under each of these, if this number was X, should it have been 2x or 3x or 10x or whatever it is?
35:50
SPEAKER_00: Tell me that.
35:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so they tell me all that.
35:53
SPEAKER_00: Then I'll say, Do you know why that is not happening?
35:57
SPEAKER_00: We don't know.
35:58
SPEAKER_00: So I'm saying that is a gap in information which you need market research to find out.
36:06
SPEAKER_00: Research must enable you to find out things that you don't know.
36:10
SPEAKER_00: You don't need research to reconfirm what you know.
36:13
SPEAKER_00: And I was also sort of burning because these guys treated me like an idiot.
36:18
SPEAKER_00: You know, and the uh pride comes out somewhere, right?
36:22
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes.
36:23
SPEAKER_00: So Rod Wright was a very, very guy, very nice guy, and he saw the validity of what it said.
36:30
SPEAKER_00: He said, Are you willing to lead the Xerox business?
36:33
SPEAKER_00: I said, No, I can't lead the business because leading the business requires relationship building as well.
36:40
SPEAKER_00: So, what I suggest is that allow me to work on the team, gain some credibility before I move on to the leadership position.
36:49
SPEAKER_00: Let the team in Xerox internally and the client side think that this guy can make a difference by adding value.
36:56
SPEAKER_00: Then only they'll respect the leader.
36:59
SPEAKER_00: Nobody respects a leader who has nothing to offer.
37:02
SPEAKER_00: I said all things, all these things intuitively, okay?
37:05
SPEAKER_00: So rod right light.
37:08
SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, these are the kind of lessons I learned.
37:11
SPEAKER_00: What the big lesson for me is a leader who is already there, successful, willing to listen to an alternate point of view which is different from his.
37:22
SPEAKER_00: That's a huge lesson.
37:24
SPEAKER_01: So tell me some incidents about interacting with Drayton Bird.
37:29
SPEAKER_01: What did you learn out of Drayton Bird?
37:32
SPEAKER_01: And what are the principles that you learned about direct marketing from Drayton Bird?
37:38
SPEAKER_00: See, first, Drayton is an extremely intelligent and shrewd man.
37:46
SPEAKER_00: There is a lot of difference between intelligence and shrewd.
37:51
SPEAKER_00: He's both.
37:52
SPEAKER_00: Then he had come up the hard way in his life.
37:55
SPEAKER_00: He'd done all sorts of work before he came to be in this business.
37:59
SPEAKER_00: He'd run his own agency and finally joined Direct because of David.
38:04
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
38:05
SPEAKER_00: So Drayton had a unique way of being able to deal with the CNMOS people at the leadership levels and the junior most people.
38:13
SPEAKER_00: He had a way of encouraging people, etc.
38:16
SPEAKER_00: He had a point of view about people, but he was not judging them.
38:21
SPEAKER_00: Huge difference.
38:22
SPEAKER_00: So he accepted me for what I was.
38:26
SPEAKER_00: Then he actually taught me how to deal with people, this, that, etc.
38:31
SPEAKER_00: Then he came and mentored us in in Bangalore, working with the team.
38:37
SPEAKER_00: That is how the Ogalvi direct team became so good.
38:41
SPEAKER_00: Mesire said, Listen, we are spending a huge sum of money to get him here.
38:48
SPEAKER_00: Your job is to get the best value out of his time.
38:52
SPEAKER_00: How do you do it is your business.
38:54
SPEAKER_00: Most of the days you will come into the office at nine, we'll leave at about seven.
38:58
SPEAKER_00: So one day he told me, you know, one day I think I would like to see Bangalore during daytime.
39:06
SPEAKER_00: Very politely.
39:08
SPEAKER_00: But Dritton was a great intellectual, tremendous sense of humor, right?
39:15
SPEAKER_00: And uh a great teacher, very generous teacher, and ruthless in his frankness.
39:24
SPEAKER_00: If somebody wrote shit, he'll say that look, if I want to call it shit, I will not call it excreta, okay?
39:32
SPEAKER_00: It's shit.
39:35
SPEAKER_00: So I learned a lot.
39:36
SPEAKER_00: Even today I'm in touch with him.
39:38
SPEAKER_00: He's old now.
39:39
SPEAKER_00: You know, I met his wife when he came home.
39:41
SPEAKER_00: When he came to India, he's brought her, they visited us, they liked my daughter.
39:46
SPEAKER_00: But Drayton told me this.
39:48
SPEAKER_00: He said, one of your biggest issues, Sridhar, is your self-limiting belief.
39:55
SPEAKER_00: You are you're one of the best people in the Ogilbee network I have met anywhere in the world, and you don't know it.
40:02
SPEAKER_00: I know it.
40:03
SPEAKER_00: Trust me.
40:05
SPEAKER_00: If there is any enemy who is against you, it is Mr.
40:09
SPEAKER_00: R.
40:09
SPEAKER_00: Sridhar.
40:12
SPEAKER_00: So don't behave like an idiot.
40:17
SPEAKER_01: So uh when you are working with Writtenbird, how would he decode a brand?
40:25
SPEAKER_01: How would he decode a problem?
40:27
SPEAKER_01: And how would he offer a solution to a problem?
40:30
SPEAKER_01: What did you learn when you work with Right and Bird?
40:34
SPEAKER_00: He never used jargon, he will not use words like decode, brand, nothing.
40:44
SPEAKER_00: Right?
40:44
SPEAKER_00: So if I if I had a piece of work, for instance, uh Xerox copying machines, he will say, but how is this different from the other guy down the street?
40:55
SPEAKER_00: He's also saying the same thing.
40:58
SPEAKER_00: So why should that chap, the customer, trust you more than he trusts him?
41:03
SPEAKER_00: Now that is brand, right?
41:07
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
41:09
SPEAKER_00: So if you have a brand, a recognizable thing, and you have built trust over a period of time, now that's a brand.
41:18
SPEAKER_00: Why should he do business with you?
41:20
SPEAKER_00: So, what is the value is going to derive?
41:22
SPEAKER_00: Are you giving him a better price or better service, better turnaround?
41:25
SPEAKER_00: What is it?
41:26
SPEAKER_00: What is your offer?
41:28
SPEAKER_00: Cut all the faff out and bare bone simple direct questions.
41:34
SPEAKER_00: So he even wrote a book called Common Sense Direct Marketing, if you remember.
41:38
SPEAKER_00: That is Drayton for you.
41:40
SPEAKER_00: So luckily, I struck a relationship both with Rod Wright, who was the boss, and Drayton, the creative director, and he made me sit in the creative group.
41:50
SPEAKER_00: Although I was in the account group, he said, Don't sit to the account guys, those guys will corrupt your thinking.
41:56
SPEAKER_00: You sit to the creative group, and that was a big advantage because the creative group, when they developed work and showed me copy, etc., they'll show it to me.
42:06
SPEAKER_00: Then what I used to do was I saw the copy, made notes separately, and not mark anything on that.
42:12
SPEAKER_00: And when they discussed it with me, I will just show my notes to them and discuss it with them.
42:17
SPEAKER_00: And they said, Listen, can you start marking those things on the copy itself instead of writing separately?
42:24
SPEAKER_00: But you know, the the long and short of it for me is that the ability to build trust was a very important thing.
42:33
SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is relationship, right?
42:36
SPEAKER_00: Just because you have knowledge is not necessary that you will build trust.
42:41
SPEAKER_00: Just because you have money, it's not necessary that you will build trust.
42:45
SPEAKER_00: So the ability to build trust is a huge thing, and that's what the brands are all about.
42:51
SPEAKER_01: Did you get a chance to connect back with David O'Gilvin after he identified and said you uh do direct marketing?
43:02
SPEAKER_01: Any other so any incident that comes to your mind?
43:06
SPEAKER_00: After that, uh I went to spend time in uh some of the European offices.
43:11
SPEAKER_00: I spent time in London.
43:12
SPEAKER_00: I spent to spent time in our Paris office because they did some very fine work from some brands, etc.
43:21
SPEAKER_00: Uh, so I had carried a presentation and all that kind of stuff.
43:24
SPEAKER_00: And David Ogilby was there.
43:26
SPEAKER_00: He was the uh he uh he was living in the chateau in Paris, and uh David Ogilby sent me a message, a fax message saying, Can we meet for lunch?
43:38
SPEAKER_00: kind of thing.
43:39
SPEAKER_00: So the the head of the office said David wants you for lunch.
43:43
SPEAKER_00: I said, Okay, so I went and met him for lunch.
43:45
SPEAKER_00: So Champs D L C opposite the Afield Tower, David picks up a restaurant which is an Indian vegetarian restaurant for me.
43:55
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so thoughtful, and then after lunch.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: I was walking with David.
44:01
SPEAKER_00: This is an old man.
44:03
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
44:04
SPEAKER_00: He was holding on to my arm and walking.
44:08
SPEAKER_00: World's greatest legend.
44:11
SPEAKER_00: And I he's walking together, he holding on my hand, and the guy is walking up and down the street.
44:17
SPEAKER_00: Nobody even recognizes him.
44:20
SPEAKER_00: But I was, you know, absolutely flying.
44:25
SPEAKER_00: Right?
44:26
SPEAKER_00: Then he took me to his uh not the great place where he was, and he had another flat in Paris, and we went there, we had a long conversation about careers, family, and all that kind of stuff.
44:39
SPEAKER_00: So he told me that look, at the end of the day, a career growth is a means for growing you as a person.
44:48
SPEAKER_00: Career growth is not a substitute for growing as an individual, it's a means to an end.
44:55
SPEAKER_00: For heaven's sake, remember this.
44:58
SPEAKER_00: And he said the rate at which you're going, if you're not careful, you'll burn out.
45:05
SPEAKER_00: You have to do the balancing act.
45:08
SPEAKER_01: And what about uh other advice on carriers and maybe on marketing?
45:14
SPEAKER_01: What should what are the right do's and don'ts that David spoke to you about?
45:19
SPEAKER_00: So most of it didn't come through as do's and don'ts, but it is all came through conversations.
45:25
SPEAKER_00: For instance, he would say that look, if you're writing something, please understand who you're writing for.
45:30
SPEAKER_00: You're not writing to yourself.
45:32
SPEAKER_00: I mean, do you want to stand in front of a mirror and talk to yourself?
45:35
SPEAKER_00: That's not what the job is.
45:38
SPEAKER_00: So he'll say, picture the person to whom you're writing.
45:44
SPEAKER_00: So I said, How do you picture the person to whom you're writing?
45:47
SPEAKER_00: He said, Take a picture, take a photograph of that person, keep it in front of you.
45:51
SPEAKER_00: So he said, You want to write a letter to your daughter, then keep a picture of her and write a letter to her.
45:56
SPEAKER_00: You see the difference, it makes a difference.
46:02
SPEAKER_00: He says, Imagine if you're talking to them on the phone, you're not seeing them.
46:07
SPEAKER_00: Those days, this is not possible, right?
46:09
SPEAKER_00: Only phone.
46:10
SPEAKER_00: But you know what they look like, you know what they like, what are their anxieties, hopes, fears, and concerns?
46:16
SPEAKER_00: That's how you talk.
46:17
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I used to make long distance calls from London, and he said, When you spoke to the three of them, did you say the same thing to each one of them?
46:26
SPEAKER_00: Did you use the same tone and style?
46:29
SPEAKER_00: Even when you asked him how are you keeping, did you use the same way?
46:32
SPEAKER_00: Small, small nuances he taught you.
46:35
SPEAKER_00: We were intuitively doing the right things, but we were not observing enough to notice the difference.
46:43
SPEAKER_00: And we didn't apply those lessons in communicating with consumers.
46:49
SPEAKER_00: The moment you actually brought all those soft skills into consumer communication, it became far more effective.
46:58
SPEAKER_00: You know, there is a famous line that was written for Psychology Today magazine.
47:06
SPEAKER_00: Two lines which the context of this.
47:08
SPEAKER_00: One line was do you close the bathroom, don't worry if they're the only one at home.
47:13
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
47:14
SPEAKER_00: The second one was that that was for Psychology Today magazine.
47:18
SPEAKER_00: The same guy wrote another line for a travel service publication, which said, How much should you tip the waiter when you're planning to pocket the ashtray?
47:29
SPEAKER_00: Because all business travelers were pocketing ashtrays, matchboxes, etc., from hotels.
47:35
SPEAKER_00: Now, now, if you read the headline, won't you want to read the rest of it?
47:41
SPEAKER_00: So these are the kind of lessons I picked up from all these kind of conversations and reading books.
47:46
SPEAKER_00: And what other advice gave you for your career?
47:50
SPEAKER_01: Because today the word career is very different from the time you were working and how you saw career.
47:59
SPEAKER_01: But there are some evergreen rules of career that still remain relevant today.
48:07
SPEAKER_01: So, what did you learn?
48:09
SPEAKER_01: What did you learn when he spoke about careers and how should somebody build career in marketing and advertising?
48:17
SPEAKER_00: First thing is the word career never appeared in the lexical.
48:20
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I think it's become a whatever word we want to call it now, it's a often overused term and it's very misleading, it's very limiting.
48:32
SPEAKER_00: I make it very simple.
48:34
SPEAKER_00: What do you want to become?
48:36
SPEAKER_00: What is your dream for yourself?
48:39
SPEAKER_00: What's your dream destination?
48:42
SPEAKER_00: Right?
48:43
SPEAKER_00: Second question is what do you need to get there?
48:48
SPEAKER_00: Do you have the wherewithal to get there?
48:51
SPEAKER_00: Let's say that I want to travel from point A to point B.
48:56
SPEAKER_00: Won't you check do you have enough petrol in your car?
48:59
SPEAKER_00: Is your car capable of traveling that long distance?
49:03
SPEAKER_00: Right?
49:04
SPEAKER_00: Are you capable of driving that alone or do you need another driver?
49:08
SPEAKER_00: Won't you check all this?
49:10
SPEAKER_00: So that's all about checking with your own abilities, wherewithal, resources, and all that.
49:15
SPEAKER_00: It's the same thing.
49:17
SPEAKER_00: So when you want to decide this is where I want to get back, get into in terms of my career, you go to say, Well, that's my dream.
49:27
SPEAKER_00: Where am I today?
49:28
SPEAKER_00: This is where I'm here.
49:29
SPEAKER_00: So, what is the reasonable time in which I can move from where I'm here to where I want to be?
49:35
SPEAKER_00: Right?
49:36
SPEAKER_00: Once you say that, then you have to figure out your strategy.
49:40
SPEAKER_00: So then the question is: can you do it by yourself?
49:43
SPEAKER_00: Do you need some help?
49:44
SPEAKER_00: Do you have all the necessary qualifications?
49:47
SPEAKER_00: Do you have enough patrol in the tank types?
49:49
SPEAKER_00: Right?
49:50
SPEAKER_00: So these are simple questions.
49:52
SPEAKER_00: So it's, I mean, I I come from a village, I failed my SSE and I want to be chairman of Tata.
49:59
SPEAKER_00: It can happen, provided you want to work hard.
50:03
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure Chandrashekar, who is chairman of the Tata group, it wasn't easy in his life, it didn't happen just like that, right?
50:11
SPEAKER_00: Ramaduray, chairman of Tata consultancy.
50:17
SPEAKER_00: I have a very interesting story to tell about this.
50:19
SPEAKER_00: You know, Narayan Muti was my client in emphasis.
50:24
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
50:26
SPEAKER_00: Now we did this first recruitment advertisement, and Narayan Muti gave me a free hand.
50:33
SPEAKER_00: What we did was we did a full page Times of India advertisement for recruitment.
50:39
SPEAKER_00: And we the biggest promise was it told them everything they needed to know about Infosys, which was fighting TCS at that time.
50:46
SPEAKER_00: The challenger brand.
50:48
SPEAKER_00: And then we said you will appear for a return test.
50:52
SPEAKER_00: If you pass the test, you will immediately go directly to an interview.
50:57
SPEAKER_00: If you pass the interview, you get an appointment letter.
51:00
SPEAKER_00: Everything happens in one day.
51:01
SPEAKER_00: Whereas TCS had this uh you know whole lot of mechanics.
51:06
SPEAKER_00: You appear, then you get reply in three months, it takes kind of I so this this was completely conceived by us, huh?
51:14
SPEAKER_00: Because I had done my homework with uh Nara and Murti and team, and they said this is how we recruit our people, but we are not getting them.
51:22
SPEAKER_00: So I told Naran Murti, but you're not telling these people that this is how you recruit people.
51:28
SPEAKER_00: He said, They all know.
51:29
SPEAKER_00: I said they don't know.
51:32
SPEAKER_00: So he said, You show me a recruitment ad.
51:34
SPEAKER_00: I said, I'll show you a recruitment ad.
51:36
SPEAKER_00: So I came back and told my team, we created a full page times of India ad.
51:41
SPEAKER_00: Then I said, full page times of India, Naran Murti will say it's a waste of money.
51:46
SPEAKER_00: We found that if I had uh the full page is some 50 centimeters by eight columns or something like that.
51:55
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so if I had an ad at 40 centimeters by eight columns, the last top 10 centimeters is not enough to put another ad.
52:04
SPEAKER_00: So editor will appear there.
52:06
SPEAKER_00: So we created an ad for 40 by 8.
52:11
SPEAKER_00: Okay, and we composed the complete ad which showed the prospective candidate all the possible questions they will ask, what to do, how to come prepared.
52:22
SPEAKER_00: The whole thing is how to win in the interview, right?
52:25
SPEAKER_00: We composed a full ad.
52:27
SPEAKER_00: We pasted it on our Times of India page, then I took it to Naran Muti.
52:32
SPEAKER_00: Now the thing is Naran Muti and I would meet every Thursday morning at 7:30 in the morning.
52:39
SPEAKER_00: It's with no agenda meeting, and he will talk about all sorts of stuff.
52:43
SPEAKER_00: So I took this ad and showed it to him, and I told him we were doing an internal creative exercise for our copywriters.
52:54
SPEAKER_00: One creative team came out with this concept, which I found very interesting.
52:59
SPEAKER_00: I want to show it to you.
53:00
SPEAKER_00: He said, uh, when can we run it?
53:03
SPEAKER_00: I I said, no, I haven't thought about it.
53:06
SPEAKER_00: So I can have it done.
53:08
SPEAKER_00: When do you want to run it?
53:10
SPEAKER_00: So I said, next week, I said, yeah, it's possible.
53:13
SPEAKER_00: So he then I said, fine.
53:16
SPEAKER_00: Then I asked him, Don't you want to know how much it might cost?
53:19
SPEAKER_00: He said, Yeah, now that you asked me, do you know?
53:22
SPEAKER_00: I said, Yeah, this is what it'll cost.
53:23
SPEAKER_00: He said, Yeah, go ahead.
53:27
SPEAKER_00: So I was about to get down, and then Mr.
53:29
SPEAKER_00: Naranvati called me back.
53:32
SPEAKER_00: He said, A lot of people think that I'm a very stingy guy.
53:38
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I come from very normal means.
53:42
SPEAKER_00: I am very keen to spend money where it matters and extract the maximum value.
53:48
SPEAKER_00: Today you showed me how to extract value of Taffa recruitment ads which were not effective.
53:55
SPEAKER_00: So I'm putting my bet on this.
53:58
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
53:59
SPEAKER_00: Part two of this.
54:01
SPEAKER_00: The interviews were Leela Hotel in Santa Cruz.
54:05
SPEAKER_00: Right?
54:06
SPEAKER_00: Walk-in interview kind of stuff.
54:08
SPEAKER_00: They had to do a test, and immediately they'll do this.
54:12
SPEAKER_00: There was a stampede, and the front glass door broke.
54:15
SPEAKER_00: And Nandan Nelakani and I were sitting in a hotel close by to see what was happening.
54:21
SPEAKER_00: And I mean it was a runaway stuff.
54:24
SPEAKER_00: And the final thing that what happened was that till that time, TCS used to cock a snooker emphasis, never took them seriously.
54:35
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
54:36
SPEAKER_00: And Mr.
54:36
SPEAKER_00: Murti, they were all part of the uh NASCOM, right?
54:41
SPEAKER_00: And FC Kohli was the boss of NASCOM, and then Naran Murti was there.
54:45
SPEAKER_00: Anytime Mr.
54:46
SPEAKER_00: Naran Mutti went to see FC Kohli, FC Kohli used to make him wait in the reception for 45 minutes before he called him in.
54:54
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
54:55
SPEAKER_00: After this ad was released, I went to see Naran Murti and he came and said, You know what?
55:01
SPEAKER_00: Amazing thing happened.
55:02
SPEAKER_00: I said, Yeah, I know there was a stampede, this, that.
55:04
SPEAKER_00: He said, I'm not talking about that.
55:06
SPEAKER_00: I said, What?
55:07
SPEAKER_00: He said, I went to see FC Kohli, right?
55:10
SPEAKER_00: Because this is the NASCOM meeting, etc.
55:12
SPEAKER_00: You know what happened?
55:13
SPEAKER_00: I went and sat in the reception.
55:15
SPEAKER_00: The receptionist told Mr.
55:17
SPEAKER_00: Kohli that Mr.
55:18
SPEAKER_00: Murti is here.
55:19
SPEAKER_00: FC Kohli walked out of his room, took me, bat me in the reception, and walked me into his room.
55:26
SPEAKER_00: Never happened before in his life.
55:30
SPEAKER_00: Now we talk about effectiveness, advertising, corporate advertising.
55:34
SPEAKER_00: See how people perceive results from all of this.
55:38
SPEAKER_00: I was thinking the ad was effective because they got all the right recruits.
55:47
SPEAKER_00: In the brand.
55:48
SPEAKER_00: So infosist the brand suddenly became more trusted, more desirable, more acceptable because of the confidence it showed in itself.
55:58
SPEAKER_00: Earlier on, they didn't show the confidence in themselves.
56:02
SPEAKER_00: They themselves were not number one.
56:06
SPEAKER_01: So Sridan, the key point what you are saying is advertising is not just about communication.
56:14
SPEAKER_01: Advertising is about a holistic uh view about the the corporate, the brand, the brand in terms of what it delivers, the way people, the way you uh you know serve the customer.
56:29
SPEAKER_01: So you have to you have to have a incument view if you really want to get a trust and brand, which is something that I can actually pick up from what you are saying.
56:39
SPEAKER_00: Is that correct?
56:40
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely right.
56:41
SPEAKER_00: Everything you said is absolutely right.
56:43
SPEAKER_00: My point is advertising is about influencing people.
56:47
SPEAKER_00: Now, when you want to influence people, you have to understand all the components that are likely to influence them, right?
56:54
SPEAKER_00: So then you must look do everything possible, every single thing must actually work in unison.
57:01
SPEAKER_00: So it's just let me take a very interesting example which both of us can relate to.
57:07
SPEAKER_00: Playing a Mridnam is not touching the surface with your fingers, although that's a process.
57:14
SPEAKER_00: Now, all Mradhang players do the same thing, but yet there is magic in what Volbaram Sar place and how Vinai Kram does his guttam.
57:22
SPEAKER_00: But all gutam players are not the same, or Madhagam players are not the same.
57:26
SPEAKER_00: They are brands in themselves because they bring a certain uniqueness into the whole thing.
57:32
SPEAKER_00: Now, there are different ways in which the brand attracts, right?
57:36
SPEAKER_00: But it's all about relevance, timeliness, and fit.
57:41
SPEAKER_00: Beautiful.
57:43
SPEAKER_01: So, which brings me to one of the roles that you played in OLV.
57:49
SPEAKER_01: Uh and uh I was at a contract then, and uh this whole role of orchestration was given here, right?
58:00
SPEAKER_01: And uh that's a very, very far ahead of its time, right?
58:06
SPEAKER_01: Uh orchestration.
58:08
SPEAKER_01: So, how did you define orchestration and how do you think orchestration is relevant to brands today?
58:14
SPEAKER_00: No, the the orchestration role came to me because of Ranjan Kapoor.
58:20
SPEAKER_00: See, what was happening was that we had advertising, uh, we had direct marketing, then we had PR, we had sales promotions, and we were all doing our own numbers.
58:31
SPEAKER_00: Even on the same brand, work done on the same brand, they were all so different.
58:37
SPEAKER_00: And Ranjan, you know, Ranjan is a big thinker and it worked in Europe and all that kind of thing.
58:43
SPEAKER_00: He saw it from a different perspective, and he said that this is not happening here.
58:47
SPEAKER_00: Can you do something about it?
58:49
SPEAKER_00: I said, What do you want me to do?
58:51
SPEAKER_00: So he said, Listen, you're on the board, you should be able to influence all these people and all that.
58:55
SPEAKER_00: I said, Listen, Ranjan, you're a managing director, right?
58:58
SPEAKER_00: Do you think you're able to influence everybody on everything?
59:01
SPEAKER_00: I have a heart, yeah.
59:02
SPEAKER_00: So I said, Listen, we have don't make it formal.
59:07
SPEAKER_00: But give me some kind of access.
59:12
SPEAKER_00: I will figure out the way to exercise authority.
59:15
SPEAKER_00: What if I am able to tell offices that you tell me about the business that you're pitching in and use me as your resource to find out how to pitch for that business in a manner that your competitor will not be able to pitch?
59:30
SPEAKER_00: Let's say that Ogilby is pitching, Lintas is pitching.
59:33
SPEAKER_00: I know what Alec Pademsi will do, but what are the things that we can do that Lintas cannot do?
59:40
SPEAKER_00: So, in what we can do that Lintas cannot do, then we said how we will be able to identify your high-value prospects or customers, how we can talk to him directly, how we can influence his thinking, because we have a unique way of working together.
59:59
SPEAKER_00: We can influence the way he thinks, we can the way he talks, the way he does, and the way in which he will actually uh you know talk about you as an influencer himself.
1:00:13
SPEAKER_00: So we had an integrated view of the whole thing and presented an integrated view of the uh communication package itself.
1:00:22
SPEAKER_00: So that was the language we use, the language of the business, not the language from this side.
1:00:27
SPEAKER_00: So speak the other person's language.
1:00:29
SPEAKER_00: Instructing somebody to do something is not the way in which you can make it make them do it.
1:00:34
SPEAKER_00: Persuading somebody to do something in a manner in which they understand is a real business.
1:00:40
SPEAKER_00: So we are all in that business of persuasion.
1:00:43
SPEAKER_00: We don't remember that.
1:00:45
SPEAKER_00: Then orchestration, which is whether to use advertising or direct or promotion or PR, etc., is a ways and means of persuasion.
1:00:54
SPEAKER_01: So Sri, this whole thing about uh orchestration, agencies struggled even today.
1:01:01
SPEAKER_01: The CMO himself struggles today, right?
1:01:04
SPEAKER_01: Because what do you what you thought about maybe you know 25 years back, even today the CMO struggles with orchestration.
1:01:14
SPEAKER_01: So, where do you think organizations uh struggle and what they what do they need to build is integration and orchestrated thinking?
1:01:22
SPEAKER_00: See, orchestration is not regimentation, it's a huge difference.
1:01:28
SPEAKER_00: Orchestration is about persuasion, orchestration is about working together to achieve effectiveness and efficiency.
1:01:37
SPEAKER_00: That's the thing.
1:01:39
SPEAKER_00: If the marketing guy doesn't know how to communicate this and get the team together and enthuse them and empower them, that's a problem.
1:01:48
SPEAKER_00: What's the language he uses?
1:01:51
SPEAKER_00: So, this is what I want.
1:01:54
SPEAKER_00: So, my point is so big.
1:01:56
SPEAKER_00: You want, you take it.
1:01:58
SPEAKER_00: What is the language?
1:02:00
SPEAKER_00: This is what we must all do together.
1:02:02
SPEAKER_00: There's a huge difference.
1:02:03
SPEAKER_00: How many marketing guys use that language?
1:02:07
SPEAKER_00: The guys who use the language got some fantastic work.
1:02:11
SPEAKER_00: Rajiv Bhakshi, he got the best out of Piyush Pandey because he used that language.
1:02:17
SPEAKER_00: He said to Piyush, Piush is a Hindi guy.
1:02:22
SPEAKER_00: He took Piyush one day out for lunch.
1:02:24
SPEAKER_00: He said, Yar, yeah, I don't like all this fancy stuff here.
1:02:31
SPEAKER_00: He was a struggling Hindi writer.
1:02:33
SPEAKER_00: He was a failed account executive.
1:02:35
SPEAKER_00: You know that.
1:02:36
SPEAKER_00: He was on Hindustan Lever and he was handling the business.
1:02:40
SPEAKER_00: And our Hindi copywriters were given English copy and they were translated, and then Pyush sent it to the rubbish.
1:02:46
SPEAKER_00: He'll write his own line and sell it to the client.
1:02:48
SPEAKER_00: And that's when Chintamani Rao recognized him for what he is, and he said, Listen, you go and handle Hindi.
1:02:54
SPEAKER_00: And then Pyush started Hindi, then he grew to be the creative chief, and then, of course, finally the creative group and chairman of Google B.
1:03:02
SPEAKER_00: It all came because of intuitive understanding of the consumer and how to persuade him.
1:03:08
SPEAKER_00: This is a classic growth of how to understand consumers and growing.
1:03:12
SPEAKER_00: So, therefore, you're saying the CMO has to talk the business language.
1:03:17
SPEAKER_00: That's clearly the point that you are making.
1:03:19
SPEAKER_00: The CMO has to speak the language of results.
1:03:23
SPEAKER_00: I'm not talking about business language.
1:03:25
SPEAKER_00: If he wants to get the best out of agencies, he must know how to motivate the agency.
1:03:30
SPEAKER_00: See, results is his accountability, is his problem.
1:03:33
SPEAKER_00: Agency is the means to his end.
1:03:35
SPEAKER_00: You have to motivate the team to fight the war, right?
1:03:38
SPEAKER_00: How does the general talk to the soldiers?
1:03:40
SPEAKER_00: He's not talking to them about strategy.
1:03:42
SPEAKER_00: He says kill them.
1:03:43
SPEAKER_01: But uh but do today's agencies, if I have to say kill them, what skill set should I have to ensure that I kill them?
1:03:54
SPEAKER_01: Because that's really one of the problems that is there in terms of competency.
1:03:58
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
1:03:58
SPEAKER_00: So what happens is first, you as a leader must know your target, right?
1:04:04
SPEAKER_00: You must know how to empower your people and give them the weapons and give them the freedom.
1:04:09
SPEAKER_00: And if there is a mistake, it'll say, not to worry.
1:04:12
SPEAKER_00: Unlike war, they could have got killed.
1:04:14
SPEAKER_00: In this case, they'll not get killed, right?
1:04:16
SPEAKER_00: So if something goes wrong, then you come back and analyze and say it's not about what went wrong.
1:04:22
SPEAKER_00: It is about why didn't why did we not achieve what we wanted to achieve?
1:04:26
SPEAKER_00: For instance, we wanted to achieve 100, we have achieved only 50.
1:04:32
SPEAKER_00: Okay, how did we achieve that 50?
1:04:34
SPEAKER_00: What did we do right with these 50 people?
1:04:36
SPEAKER_00: So we learn.
1:04:38
SPEAKER_00: What happened for the rest of the guys?
1:04:40
SPEAKER_00: Why did we not achieve that?
1:04:41
SPEAKER_00: Find out.
1:04:42
SPEAKER_00: Then what is the lesson in it?
1:04:43
SPEAKER_00: Then retune and go back.
1:04:45
SPEAKER_00: I was telling you about spectrum home computers.
1:04:48
SPEAKER_00: We thought our target was wrong and the wrong, the right kind of audience bought them, but we didn't know.
1:04:54
SPEAKER_00: But when we went to the consumer back, we realized that the guys who are aspirational are buying, investing in these home computers.
1:05:02
SPEAKER_00: The rich guys thought that they didn't need it, so they kept it in the garage cupboard.
1:05:07
SPEAKER_00: Blood donation, I mentioned to you.
1:05:09
SPEAKER_00: People who want to save other people's life want to donate blood.
1:05:13
SPEAKER_00: That's the right kind of people.
1:05:15
SPEAKER_00: So we need to see what is the key motivation behind why people do what they do.
1:05:21
SPEAKER_00: That's a very important issue.
1:05:23
SPEAKER_00: But you're not paying enough attention to that.
1:05:25
SPEAKER_01: So, therefore, as an agency, so the clear challenge, uh Sridhar, is the intuitiveness to understand the consumer, the fact that you have to understand what does result mean.
1:05:40
SPEAKER_01: Results mean, right?
1:05:42
SPEAKER_01: Then the fact that what components should I be applying to achieve that result.
1:05:47
SPEAKER_01: If that thinking is not there in the account management team and the creative team, then you will just keep creating messages, right?
1:05:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I you're right.
1:05:55
SPEAKER_00: I let me actually touch a very important issue.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is the question of a doctor.
1:06:05
SPEAKER_00: See, just imagine a very busy doctor's clinic and hundreds of fellows waiting outside.
1:06:13
SPEAKER_00: Every patient he can't be spending one hour.
1:06:16
SPEAKER_00: Within the first five minutes, he must be able to figure out what is happening.
1:06:20
SPEAKER_00: Straight away he analyzes what is my food habit, what are the components of what I'm eating, then he'll suddenly say that look, you're eating too much of starch.
1:06:30
SPEAKER_00: I think you should compensate it with more greens, more proteins.
1:06:35
SPEAKER_00: Change the composition of your stuff.
1:06:37
SPEAKER_00: Okay?
1:06:38
SPEAKER_00: You don't have to change it to everything alternately completely, but change something.
1:06:42
SPEAKER_00: So if you want, bring your wife along, I will tell her certain things, and then she can write cook the right things for you.
1:06:49
SPEAKER_00: All that I'm saying is that people know so much, we are not making use of our native intelligence to manage this.
1:06:56
SPEAKER_00: There is a time and place for detailed analytical work when there is not enough data to make a clear, intelligent decision.
1:07:06
SPEAKER_00: That time we need evidence.
1:07:08
SPEAKER_00: There are times where we have to go from various liberalities to do various tests because there is a there is a particular indication, I'm not able to figure out why that is happening.
1:07:18
SPEAKER_00: Then of course we need that.
1:07:19
SPEAKER_00: But that is 20% of the time.
1:07:21
SPEAKER_00: 80% of the time, we may not do to just because I feel feverish, I don't go through a complete medical test, do I?
1:07:28
SPEAKER_01: There are so many parallels in digital marketing today, which is very, very similar to direct marketing.
1:07:37
SPEAKER_01: Right?
1:07:38
SPEAKER_01: So what are the principles of direct marketing uh that you see a real value for a digital marketer of today?
1:07:50
SPEAKER_01: Because today uh you were at a time when uh there was something called a database.
1:07:56
SPEAKER_01: Today it's all it's called big data.
1:07:58
SPEAKER_01: There was personalization, but now today personalization it's become so easy because of technology.
1:08:04
SPEAKER_01: So I do see that digital marketing of today is actually if you knew direct marketing in the earlier years, the digital marketer of today would be much much valuable.
1:08:18
SPEAKER_01: And therefore, the question to you saying what are the principles of direct marketing that you can see that you can apply to the uh digital market, uh digital marketing of today?
1:08:27
SPEAKER_00: Okay, using LinkedIn would be called digit digital marketing.
1:08:30
SPEAKER_00: Okay, now uh here is a 75-year-old guy, which is me, and and I get time pass, I have a lot of time.
1:08:39
SPEAKER_00: Right?
1:08:39
SPEAKER_00: I want to talk to people.
1:08:41
SPEAKER_00: Now, why would I have some 15,000 connections on LinkedIn?
1:08:46
SPEAKER_00: If I say I'm 75 years old, I'll tell you everything I know.
1:08:49
SPEAKER_00: How many people want to talk to me?
1:08:51
SPEAKER_00: Do you think?
1:08:51
SPEAKER_00: Literally nobody.
1:08:52
SPEAKER_00: Okay, they're not interested in talking to me because I'm 75 years old.
1:08:58
SPEAKER_00: So if I mentioned about relevance, timeliness, and fit.
1:09:01
SPEAKER_00: So I have to understand what are the hopes, fears, and concerns of the people who are connected to me on LinkedIn.
1:09:07
SPEAKER_00: So I have connections a lot of guys are general managers of words, right?
1:09:12
SPEAKER_00: That doesn't mean that all of them are 50 plus.
1:09:15
SPEAKER_00: There are many GMs in 30 plus.
1:09:18
SPEAKER_00: They are on their way up, right?
1:09:20
SPEAKER_00: When you're growing in your career, there are several career concerns that happen in terms of relationships, in terms of communication skills, in terms of decision making, in terms of making mistakes, career changes, this, that, etc.
1:09:32
SPEAKER_00: Right?
1:09:33
SPEAKER_00: So there is a whole business of what do I do?
1:09:37
SPEAKER_00: I have several choices to make.
1:09:39
SPEAKER_00: What choice do I make?
1:09:41
SPEAKER_00: So I offered a program called or a one-hour conversation called Confusion to Clarity.
1:09:46
SPEAKER_00: I've had more than 100 conversations on that now from the time the pandemic started.
1:09:50
SPEAKER_00: They all came to me, not because I'm 75 years old and I have you know so much wisdom to offer.
1:09:58
SPEAKER_00: They simply said, I'm very confused.
1:10:00
SPEAKER_00: Can you help?
1:10:01
SPEAKER_00: That's all.
1:10:01
SPEAKER_00: Age had nothing to do with it, my background had nothing to do with it, and I said, All I need is just one hour of your time.
1:10:08
SPEAKER_00: One hour of your time.
1:10:10
SPEAKER_00: So the there was no risk.
1:10:13
SPEAKER_00: Worst comes to worst, one hour like going and seeing a movie which is lousy, and this is free.
1:10:20
SPEAKER_00: So I can tell you without without bragging, I have made a lot of difference to at least 22 people who I'm saying this based on what they said, okay?
1:10:30
SPEAKER_00: Based on decision they subsequently took.
1:10:33
SPEAKER_00: So 22 out of 100 is not a bad score by any by any direct marketing result as well.
1:10:39
SPEAKER_01: So, therefore, the principles to say if there were 10 top principles of direct marketing, uh how would you almost juxtapose it to say a digital marketer of today and to say here are the five or ten tips that I want to give, do these five ten things.
1:10:59
SPEAKER_00: So, very simple.
1:11:00
SPEAKER_00: Now, suppose I remove the two words, direct marketing and uh digital marketing.
1:11:05
SPEAKER_00: You want to get a girl interested in you.
1:11:08
SPEAKER_00: You either you have the chance to speak to her directly or through LinkedIn.
1:11:11
SPEAKER_00: How would you do it?
1:11:13
SPEAKER_00: You want the girl to say, Yeah, let's have a chat.
1:11:16
SPEAKER_00: Very simple.
1:11:17
SPEAKER_00: Even before she agrees to go for a date with you, what will you do?
1:11:21
SPEAKER_00: For instance, you can say, I saw your picture on this.
1:11:24
SPEAKER_00: I mean, by any chance, have you done any modeling?
1:11:27
SPEAKER_00: That's flattery, right?
1:11:29
SPEAKER_00: But if I say, hey, that you're you're very good looking, do you want to be a model?
1:11:33
SPEAKER_00: Then that's a problem.
1:11:34
SPEAKER_00: So you have to approach tenderly, safely, you know, have initial conversations, find out what are the things that she's interested in, occasionally send her some content which is of use to her, you know, build a little bit of trust, earn the trust, and then say, that's very interesting.
1:11:54
SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm actually going to be in Bandra side.
1:11:58
SPEAKER_00: If you're around, sir, maybe we can catch up for a coffee in coffee day, wherever.
1:12:03
SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
1:12:03
SPEAKER_00: Now she says, not today, this is not the right time for me, whatever it is.
1:12:09
SPEAKER_00: You know how girls can happen, right?
1:12:11
SPEAKER_00: So then you must really look at how to give options.
1:12:15
SPEAKER_00: Now, do you think would you like to meet me on a Thursday at such and such time at such and such place, or you do you prefer Saturday morning that that's right?
1:12:22
SPEAKER_00: You give options.
1:12:23
SPEAKER_00: It's very difficult for somebody to say neither.
1:12:25
SPEAKER_00: In the worst case scenario, say they'll give you a third option.
1:12:28
SPEAKER_00: So I must actually use all these communication skills and persuasion skills to speak to an audience to move them from point A to point B where I want them to be.
1:12:40
SPEAKER_00: And it's not rocket science, it requires patience and thinking and empathy.
1:12:45
SPEAKER_00: Empathy is putting yourself in the other person's shoes and thinking like how they think.
1:12:50
SPEAKER_00: Somebody says, I want to meet you, I'm going to say what value I'm going to do, but why is he calling me?
1:12:55
SPEAKER_00: I mean, for somebody calls me, sir, I've heard a lot about you, I want to meet you.
1:13:01
SPEAKER_00: Out of the blue, the guy doesn't know me, he's not connected to me anywhere.
1:13:04
SPEAKER_00: Suddenly he's no sugar and uh honey, because we all become cynical.
1:13:10
SPEAKER_00: So I will say, Yeah, very nice, you know, but I'm a little busy.
1:13:14
SPEAKER_00: Why don't you call me after about two weeks?
1:13:18
SPEAKER_00: Uh, then we'll figure it out.
1:13:19
SPEAKER_00: Then I know that if he's serious, he'll come back.
1:13:21
SPEAKER_00: If he's not serious, he'll not come.
1:13:23
SPEAKER_00: And I will also put a hook.
1:13:25
SPEAKER_00: I would also suggest that when you talk to me next time, see if you can read some of the articles I've written on LinkedIn.
1:13:32
SPEAKER_00: You know, uh, you will get a flavor of what my perspectives are, what my points of views are, etc.
1:13:39
SPEAKER_00: So we'll make the conversation more productive next time and useful for you.
1:13:43
SPEAKER_00: If he comes next time prepared and he actually takes a conversation based on something I said, I know he's a serious guy.
1:13:49
SPEAKER_00: If he's faffing, I know what it is.
1:13:51
SPEAKER_00: Then the third time will not take his call.
1:13:54
SPEAKER_00: But this is simple thinking, which anybody can apply, which we can apply to all human beings.
1:14:00
SPEAKER_00: Why it's like you know how our classic marriages happen.
1:14:03
SPEAKER_00: You do a Hindu matrimonial ad, and then based on which you match the horoscopes, then you go and see the girl eat Kesari, and after that, marriage happens.
1:14:13
SPEAKER_00: Right at the peak of your career at 50, you retired.
1:14:19
SPEAKER_01: Or you went away from say advertising and then started doing a completely different career, right?
1:14:27
SPEAKER_01: And yet you have stayed relevant for the next 25 years.
1:14:32
SPEAKER_01: So, what have been your learnings from a corporate job to actually being a self-employed production?
1:14:42
SPEAKER_00: Getting too attached is uh is a problem, okay.
1:14:45
SPEAKER_00: Uh, that's intuitive.
1:14:46
SPEAKER_00: I saw my father doing it.
1:14:48
SPEAKER_00: He left his job when he was 50.
1:14:50
SPEAKER_00: Then he went, he turned it into a half-day work.
1:14:55
SPEAKER_00: Rest of the time he spent with Chirmya Mission.
1:14:58
SPEAKER_00: And what was he doing?
1:15:00
SPEAKER_00: Uh Swami Chinnyananda, he had all his lectures were converted into books.
1:15:06
SPEAKER_00: There were 20 volumes.
1:15:09
SPEAKER_00: Okay, and in one of the sessions, I believe Swamiji said that you know, the all the 20 volumes, it's very difficult for people to carry it.
1:15:21
SPEAKER_00: We should make it into one single volume, one line brief.
1:15:24
SPEAKER_00: So when he came home, my father said this.
1:15:26
SPEAKER_00: He said he wants to put everything in one volume.
1:15:29
SPEAKER_00: So he went and told Swamiji that uh this happened.
1:15:33
SPEAKER_00: This is what my sons wrote, like Bible.
1:15:35
SPEAKER_00: Swamiji said, Ah, brilliant.
1:15:38
SPEAKER_00: You print it in onion skin paper, like Bible, right?
1:15:41
SPEAKER_00: And this, then he built on it.
1:15:43
SPEAKER_00: Then he said, All this must be in hotel rooms.
1:15:47
SPEAKER_00: So that's what my father did.
1:15:48
SPEAKER_00: Now that's the first part.
1:15:50
SPEAKER_00: Second thing is, my father till that time had not done anything in terms of printing, proofreading, and there was a printer in uh science circuit.
1:16:01
SPEAKER_00: So I my father and I went to the printer, I met the guy who was composing types and the uh plate making section, all that.
1:16:10
SPEAKER_00: Then we went through the whole process together.
1:16:12
SPEAKER_00: Uppa saw that the ability with which my father, right, was willing.
1:16:18
SPEAKER_00: My father was born in 1915, I was born in 1949, that's the age grip.
1:16:24
SPEAKER_00: At that time, that age difference did not matter.
1:16:27
SPEAKER_00: He was willing to learn, he was so open, he was a very strict father, okay.
1:16:32
SPEAKER_00: But when this happened, there was no difference.
1:16:36
SPEAKER_00: That's a huge thing I learned from him.
1:16:38
SPEAKER_00: Today I learned from my grandson.
1:16:40
SPEAKER_00: So, how do you spend time in the US today?
1:16:43
SPEAKER_00: Big struggle.
1:16:44
SPEAKER_00: Uh, struggle not because of anything else, it's because of the mind.
1:16:49
SPEAKER_00: All these years I underestimate the mind, underestimated the mind.
1:16:53
SPEAKER_00: But what I found is that uh time hangs on you if you don't know what to do with it.
1:17:01
SPEAKER_00: If you master time, time will not dictate how you lead your life.
1:17:05
SPEAKER_00: So I have I have my schedule, I have my calendar.
1:17:09
SPEAKER_00: So six, seven days a week.
1:17:12
SPEAKER_00: Saturday Sunday generally keep a side for family.
1:17:14
SPEAKER_00: So my time is I finish my morning routine by 9, generally 9, 9:30 latest.
1:17:21
SPEAKER_00: 7 o'clock is dinner time, then 8 o'clock I'm back on my table, then Netflix, like it's going out of fashion till 11 o'clock.
1:17:29
SPEAKER_00: And I see earlier on I used to see only Tamil and Hindi movies.
1:17:32
SPEAKER_00: Now I'm watching uh most of the Indian languages now.
1:17:38
SPEAKER_00: So I some some rich material from RIT films, amazing Kannada movies, great Balayara movies, some very nice Bengali movies, Gujarati movies.
1:17:51
SPEAKER_00: I have not seen foreign language movies, Nika.
1:17:53
SPEAKER_00: I'm still not getting there.
1:17:54
SPEAKER_00: But but these guys, the kind of stories they have, of course, there is a lot of violence, but there is a lot of strong stories based on family conflicts, motivations, uh, generation gaps, uh, the whole business of uh losing hope and winning, uh reincarnation, rebirth of an individual, huge.
1:18:18
SPEAKER_00: Akshay Kumar is my favorite.
1:18:21
SPEAKER_00: Ajay Devgan is my favorite.
1:18:24
unknown: Right?
1:18:25
SPEAKER_00: Tamil Surya, Jiva, Vijay Sethapati, but look at this.
1:18:30
SPEAKER_00: I I tell you, I marvel at the dialogue writers.
1:18:33
SPEAKER_00: I don't know whether you see it.
1:18:35
SPEAKER_00: Dialogue writers, some of the dialogues are so full of insights.
1:18:39
SPEAKER_00: You should see their dialogues.
1:18:40
SPEAKER_00: They're they're they're actually oozing with insights.
1:18:44
SPEAKER_00: Huge.
1:18:46
SPEAKER_00: If I I can show you, I've got every notebook is full.
1:18:50
SPEAKER_00: Look at this page is full of notes from these dialogues.
1:18:54
SPEAKER_01: So, Sri, did you ever feel that uh somebody like you uh was a misfit in advertising?
1:19:02
SPEAKER_00: Initially so.
1:19:03
SPEAKER_00: Initially so, but not later.
1:19:06
SPEAKER_00: Initially, because of my self-limiting belief, till David Ogly helped me correct it.
1:19:11
SPEAKER_00: Like when he said, We didn't hire you because you could drink and dance.
1:19:14
SPEAKER_00: That's the first time I realized that they actually saw something in me which I didn't see in myself.
1:19:20
SPEAKER_00: After that, I had no worry about being misfit.
1:19:24
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:19:25
SPEAKER_00: And then Mr.
1:19:26
SPEAKER_00: IR taught me another thing.
1:19:28
SPEAKER_00: He said, Every meeting you go, you please think in terms of how are you going to add value to this meeting?
1:19:34
SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
1:19:35
SPEAKER_00: Now that is standing me in good stead.
1:19:37
SPEAKER_00: Even today, if a client calls me for a meeting, I do my homework, right?
1:19:41
SPEAKER_00: I would know his business.
1:19:43
SPEAKER_00: I go to the net, net is a big advantage.
1:19:45
SPEAKER_00: I read about his company, his marketing challenges, his competitors.
1:19:48
SPEAKER_00: I would do things that he may not have done.
1:19:49
SPEAKER_00: When I go to the meeting, I'm prepared.
1:19:51
SPEAKER_00: So be prepared like a Boy Scout.
1:19:53
SPEAKER_01: So, uh, what would be your advice to the young marketing and advertising folks who want to build a career, for instance?
1:20:01
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so first thing I'm just saying learn the business.
1:20:04
SPEAKER_00: Now, learning the business components, sir.
1:20:07
SPEAKER_00: Who are the people and how do you make money?
1:20:09
SPEAKER_00: Who should do what differently so that you can make money?
1:20:13
SPEAKER_00: This is the principal question.
1:20:15
SPEAKER_00: I'll repeat the question.
1:20:16
SPEAKER_00: Who should do what differently so that you can make money?
1:20:21
SPEAKER_00: So let's give me any example.
1:20:23
SPEAKER_00: I'll tell you how this works.
1:20:25
SPEAKER_00: Any business.
1:20:26
SPEAKER_00: Zero sugar water, zero sugar juice, zero sugar juice.
1:20:31
SPEAKER_00: Zero sugar juice is interest is of interest to diabetics who have a sweet tooth.
1:20:35
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so we got our target audience defined.
1:20:39
SPEAKER_00: Somebody who has a sweet tooth, who is worried about sugar levels.
1:20:43
SPEAKER_00: That's my target audience, right?
1:20:47
SPEAKER_00: So I have to find out who they are, where they are, and how to look them, how to how to get them.
1:20:52
SPEAKER_00: So I have to have devices by which they raise their hands and say, you know, I love sweets, but my dozen give me sweets.
1:21:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:21:03
SPEAKER_00: So if I collect thousand such guys, I can communicate to them.
1:21:09
SPEAKER_00: Now, how many people should I collect depends on what is my uh target, what volume should I move every month so that I can be profitable, right?
1:21:19
SPEAKER_00: So if I get X number of buys who will frequently buy my product once a month to move so many tons, then I know the number of consumers I need to reach.
1:21:29
SPEAKER_00: So the number of consumers have to use this.
1:21:32
SPEAKER_00: Naka, I have to you have to reach 10 times that guys in terms of reach.
1:21:36
SPEAKER_00: So the numbers are in place.
1:21:37
SPEAKER_00: No, not that this is not rocket science.
1:21:42
SPEAKER_00: It requires hard work.
1:21:43
SPEAKER_00: I might make it look simple.
1:21:45
SPEAKER_00: You need some hard work, and most importantly, you need somebody on your side who can ask you these difficult questions, uh the right questions, but in a manner which is encouraging.
1:21:55
SPEAKER_00: Uh, asking questions is not interrogation, it's not like gun to the head.
1:21:59
SPEAKER_00: You're not on the court stand, right?
1:22:01
SPEAKER_00: So, what does uh success mean to you?
1:22:04
SPEAKER_00: Success is fulfillment.
1:22:06
SPEAKER_00: Can you explain it a little more?
1:22:09
SPEAKER_00: It's success is a moving target, okay?
1:22:11
SPEAKER_00: Uh when I was in school, success meant I have to get first rank.
1:22:14
SPEAKER_00: And when I went to SSC, success meant I should get admission signs.
1:22:18
SPEAKER_00: When I was in BSE, success meant I should get a job.
1:22:21
SPEAKER_00: Also, success is moving.
1:22:22
SPEAKER_00: Then when I had a good job, success meant I should get married properly.
1:22:26
SPEAKER_00: Then you should get a child.
1:22:28
SPEAKER_00: All this is moving target.
1:22:30
SPEAKER_00: So first thing is we must accept that success is a very limiting thing.
1:22:36
SPEAKER_00: So look for fulfillment rather than success, is my suggestion.
1:22:41
SPEAKER_01: What would be your advice to an 18-year-old in an university?
1:22:49
SPEAKER_00: So understand what is your dream, articulate your dream, what you wish to become, and give that dream shape and form.
1:22:59
SPEAKER_00: If necessary, write your dream.
1:23:02
SPEAKER_00: If necessary, cut pictures from magazines and create a collage in your room and fix it on a wall.
1:23:08
SPEAKER_00: That's your dream.
1:23:09
SPEAKER_00: That's your dream.
1:23:10
SPEAKER_00: It's nobody else's business to either criticize this or discuss it.
1:23:15
SPEAKER_00: Now, if you don't want to put it in the wall, create it and keep it in your computer.
1:23:19
SPEAKER_00: But every day look at that dream and then say, that's where I want to get.
1:23:29
SPEAKER_00: So my dream is to go from Kolivada to Paris.
1:23:34
SPEAKER_00: I don't have the money, I don't have the wherewithal, I don't know how to get there.
1:23:39
SPEAKER_00: But I'll get all of this.
1:23:40
SPEAKER_00: All these are possible to get.
1:23:43
SPEAKER_00: A route map I'll get from a travel agent, or today I can go to the net and get it.
1:23:48
SPEAKER_00: I go to the airline for and find out how much it'll cost me.
1:23:52
SPEAKER_00: Right?
1:23:53
SPEAKER_00: I can find out how much it'll cost me to go and stay there.
1:23:56
SPEAKER_00: Everything is possible.
1:23:57
SPEAKER_00: So then you actually put the resources together to get where you want to go.
1:24:03
SPEAKER_00: Then have a timetable to acquire all the resources and get there.
1:24:09
SPEAKER_00: Most important thing, the fuel is the willpower.
1:24:13
SPEAKER_00: There are times there is a virus that will come.
1:24:16
SPEAKER_00: The virus is self-doubt.
1:24:20
SPEAKER_00: The virus will come in different forms.
1:24:23
SPEAKER_00: Am I doing it right?
1:24:24
SPEAKER_00: Is it worth it?
1:24:26
SPEAKER_00: Am I being too greedy?
1:24:28
SPEAKER_00: Is it a waste of time?
1:24:29
SPEAKER_00: If you don't have any of this, then you know that maybe there is a problem.
1:24:33
SPEAKER_00: You're getting too smug and too arrogant.
1:24:35
SPEAKER_01: Having interacted with so many legends and so many people who have mentored, mentored, and chiseled your career and life.
1:24:47
SPEAKER_01: What is this one piece of advice?
1:24:49
SPEAKER_01: You may have many, but what is this one piece of advice that stands in good steady even today for you?
1:24:56
SPEAKER_00: Very simple.
1:24:56
SPEAKER_00: Be positive, don't be cynical.
1:24:58
SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying optimistic.
1:25:00
SPEAKER_00: Like for instance, at 75, what am I optimistic about?
1:25:03
SPEAKER_00: If I state that statement, I'm at some cynical.
1:25:05
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'll give you this statement.
1:25:13
SPEAKER_00: Let me not any debt when I leave.
1:25:17
SPEAKER_00: I think that's a decent prayer.
1:25:20
SPEAKER_00: That the prayer is not about acquiring something, doing something, etc.
1:25:24
SPEAKER_00: Even in death, let me not be a burden.
1:25:26
SPEAKER_00: So just imagine that if I'm going to be on a dead bed for one year, what will happen?
1:25:31
SPEAKER_00: You know, after a while, in Bajakovendam it says that uh they are so far they are treating you as so-and-so, so and so, so-and-so.
1:25:44
SPEAKER_00: And once the Jeeven leaves you, it you become a that, that body.
1:25:49
SPEAKER_00: Right?
1:25:50
SPEAKER_00: Now just imagine if you're fallen ill, you're at home, you're of no use to anybody, you're not dead yet.
1:26:00
SPEAKER_00: You still become that.
1:26:02
SPEAKER_00: See what happens.
1:26:03
SPEAKER_00: So I think this is the kind of thing we must be conscious about all of this.
1:26:07
SPEAKER_00: We must understand human psychology, that's the guts of it.
1:26:10
SPEAKER_00: Even the closest people respect us up to a point in a certain way, depending on what suits their purpose.
1:26:17
SPEAKER_00: They're not being selfish, but that it's legitimate.
1:26:20
SPEAKER_00: Even the most duty-bound person wants to have his own time.
1:26:25
SPEAKER_00: A hundred percent dedicated chitshas and attendance, etc., are very difficult to expect these days.
1:26:33
SPEAKER_00: And what's one thing that uh you believe that others don't agree with?
1:26:39
SPEAKER_00: Um I believe, for instance, till I leave, I should be useful.
1:26:44
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:26:45
SPEAKER_00: And now that's a fairly open definition.
1:26:47
SPEAKER_00: Now I could be useful in the kitchen, that's what my wife does, but I can't go into the kitchen and do things because my way of doing things doesn't suit my daughter.
1:26:55
SPEAKER_00: So I should be useful in a relevant way.
1:26:58
SPEAKER_00: Now that becomes the next one.
1:27:00
SPEAKER_00: So, in order to understand what is relevant, I have to do some homework.
1:27:06
SPEAKER_00: So the responsibility is on me to find out how I can be useful.
1:27:11
SPEAKER_00: For instance, now I'm useful to her because at one o'clock, she when she is ready to serve lunch, she doesn't have to call me, I'll be there on time.
1:27:19
SPEAKER_00: So I don't give her the trouble of calling me.
1:27:22
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I could be lost doing something and then saying, Up, are you coming for lunch?
1:27:26
SPEAKER_00: She'll send me a message of WhatsApp.
1:27:27
SPEAKER_00: All that she doesn't have to do.
1:27:28
SPEAKER_00: One o'clock sharp, I go.
1:27:30
SPEAKER_00: So I'm just saying, find out, be sensitive enough to find out what is happening around you.
1:27:35
SPEAKER_00: Sensitive enough to find out what is useful for other people, and find out how you can be of either use to them or be less of a nuisance.
1:27:45
SPEAKER_00: So there are time to be on your own, uh, time to be part of the scene.
1:27:49
SPEAKER_00: But don't feel the compulsion to be part of the scene all the time.
1:27:53
SPEAKER_00: It's not necessary.
1:27:54
SPEAKER_00: Make your choice, have the guts to make your choice.
1:27:58
SPEAKER_00: Understand how to say no.
1:28:00
SPEAKER_00: I mean, every time they all go out for dinner, you know, Mexican food, cheese, that, etc.
1:28:05
SPEAKER_00: So I go join them, then I eat very light or whatever it is, etc.
1:28:09
SPEAKER_00: But sometimes I'll say, is it okay if I don't come, guys?
1:28:12
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I just want to take it easy.
1:28:14
SPEAKER_00: They'll say, Yeah, okay, Tatu, no problem.
1:28:16
SPEAKER_00: But be polite.
1:28:17
SPEAKER_00: You know, if I turned around and said, No, no, all that I don't like.
1:28:21
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to come, then that's bad.
1:28:22
SPEAKER_00: So I have understood even with my grandchildren, I have to be nice and polite.
1:28:27
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I can't pull drank just because I'm sanctified.
1:28:30
SPEAKER_00: No deal.
1:28:31
SPEAKER_01: On that note, uh Shedar, lovely talking to you.
1:28:34
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for your time.
1:28:35
SPEAKER_01: Fantastic life learning insights that you shared, people who you have interacted with.
1:28:42
SPEAKER_01: These are all things that will always remain with me all my life.
1:28:46
SPEAKER_01: Thanks.
1:28:47
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for listening to this episode.
1:28:49
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1:28:56
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