Latest / Podcast on the Brink / POTB 562: Year one of the DeVries era and IU basketball's transfer portal needs with Tony Adragna

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POTB 562: Year one of the DeVries era and IU basketball's transfer portal needs with Tony Adragna · Podcast on the Brink

0:18
Speaker 1: Welcome back to a new episode of Podcast on the
0:21
Speaker 1: Brink Tuesday, March twenty fourth, a couple of days away
0:25
Speaker 1: from the Sweet sixteen, which will be heavily populated by
0:30
Speaker 1: Big ten teams. Even one Big Ten head to head
0:33
Speaker 1: matchup Iowa and Nebraska down in Houston. That's going to
0:36
Speaker 1: be interesting. You got, I think three Big ten teams
0:39
Speaker 1: down there and Kelvin Samson, so a nice little Big
0:42
Speaker 1: Ten reunion down there going for Kelvin. Be interesting to
0:46
Speaker 1: see who comes out of there, and hopefully Big ten
0:48
Speaker 1: can finally break through, get some Final four teams give
0:51
Speaker 1: themselves a good chance to win a national championship. I
0:54
Speaker 1: think at this point it's been twenty six years, most
0:56
Speaker 1: people around the league are rooting for it, with the
0:59
Speaker 1: exception of IU fans who are likely not rooting for
1:02
Speaker 1: a Purdue national championship. But we'll see what happens. Is
1:05
Speaker 1: going to be fascinating to watch it all play out.
1:07
Speaker 1: This week's episode of Podcast on the Brink, we're joined
1:10
Speaker 1: by good friend of the show, Tony and DRNA sectional
1:14
Speaker 1: winning coach from Greenwood Christian Academy. I like to call
1:18
Speaker 1: him my favorite coach. Now on the state of Indiana
1:22
Speaker 1: high school basketball. Now that I got Jim Shannon at
1:24
Speaker 1: new Omni's retired, I gotta adopt Tony as my favorite
1:28
Speaker 1: high school coach. Before we get to Tony bring him
1:30
Speaker 1: in a reminder. If you enjoy the show over on
1:32
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or Spotify, leave us a five star rating
1:35
Speaker 1: and a review. If you're watching on YouTube, like the video,
1:38
Speaker 1: subscribe to the channel. We appreciate all the support there, Tony.
1:43
Speaker 1: Try to give you the best introduction I could. Winning
1:46
Speaker 1: the Sectional championship. As I told you before we hit record,
1:49
Speaker 1: I was very thrilled happy to see you do that
1:52
Speaker 1: in your first season. I know you put a lot
1:54
Speaker 1: into that. People don't know high school coaches not a
1:57
Speaker 1: glamorous job, not a lot of money, but you're doing
1:59
Speaker 1: it for the the game. I know you had a
2:01
Speaker 1: chance to bond with a lot of young men. You
2:03
Speaker 1: got a younger team, have a chance to win that
2:05
Speaker 1: Sexual championship quickly. Before we get into IU basketball, what
2:09
Speaker 1: was the experience like getting back into the coaching for
2:11
Speaker 1: the first season. I know you had to be happy
2:13
Speaker 1: kind of with an up and down season. I called
2:17
Speaker 1: it on Twitter. You got over the hump when it
2:19
Speaker 1: mattered most winning the sectional title. What was that like
2:21
Speaker 1: for you?
2:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was awesome. Honestly, was super thrilled for my kids.
2:26
Speaker 3: They were kind of a written off bunch, you know
2:30
Speaker 3: that not a lot of expectations put on them. You know,
2:35
Speaker 3: the last year's team was under five hundred eight and
2:37
Speaker 3: they graduated all but five points per game. And so
2:40
Speaker 3: this group to kind of put it all together, mostly
2:44
Speaker 3: played JV last year, come together at the right time
2:47
Speaker 3: when eight of our final ten games, make a run
2:51
Speaker 3: win a sectional title. And honestly, if you looked at
2:54
Speaker 3: the score from our regional game, we lost by fifteen,
2:57
Speaker 3: but we had a ten point lead at one point
2:59
Speaker 3: in that game.
2:59
Speaker 2: It was a two point game with six minutes to go.
3:02
Speaker 3: And then our wheels kind of fell off a little
3:04
Speaker 3: bit with a younger team, but man, I was I
3:07
Speaker 3: was so happy for those kids to get to experience
3:10
Speaker 3: a little taste of success. As you mentioned, none of
3:13
Speaker 3: it's about me, you know, it's it's fun to pour
3:17
Speaker 3: into these kids and really enjoyed it, you know, And
3:22
Speaker 3: now it's like we taste a little success, I want more,
3:25
Speaker 3: and so hopefully the kids feel the same way. Bring
3:29
Speaker 3: workouts start here in a couple of weeks, so we'll
3:31
Speaker 3: dive right back into it. But love being part of
3:34
Speaker 3: the kind of coaching fraternity in Indiana. There's there's nothing
3:37
Speaker 3: like it. There's so many good coaches. You go up
3:39
Speaker 3: against one, A two, A three, a four, it doesn't matter.
3:43
Speaker 3: It's it's the best coach state in high school sports, uh,
3:47
Speaker 3: in my estimation, and honestly, I'm not sure that it's
3:51
Speaker 3: even close.
3:53
Speaker 1: Didn't get a chance to have you on during the season. Obviously.
3:55
Speaker 1: I know you were busy with your team and work,
3:57
Speaker 1: and I know you've got a family as well, and
4:00
Speaker 1: I noticed you weren't necessarily as active this season on
4:03
Speaker 1: social media following AU basketball, but I know you were
4:05
Speaker 1: watching the games, following watching film as much as ever.
4:12
Speaker 1: We talked a little bit before I hit record. You
4:14
Speaker 1: mentioned just degrees and some of the things that he
4:17
Speaker 1: did differently from the last eight season from a coaching perspective.
4:22
Speaker 1: What were the biggest differences that you noticed in terms
4:25
Speaker 1: of what they were doing offensively and defensively Obviously the
4:28
Speaker 1: defense one thing I maybe want to get your thoughts
4:31
Speaker 1: on too as we go along here. Started out really strong.
4:34
Speaker 1: When you kind of looked at the numbers beginning of
4:36
Speaker 1: the season, but maybe masked a little bit by where
4:39
Speaker 1: who they were playing at the level of competition, but
4:42
Speaker 1: kind of took a steud of decline as the year
4:44
Speaker 1: went around along. But from a schematic perspective and kind
4:47
Speaker 1: of what they were doing on both ends of the court,
4:49
Speaker 1: what maybe stood out to you at a high level
4:51
Speaker 1: from this season?
4:52
Speaker 2: Sure? Yeah.
4:53
Speaker 3: The first thing that you know, I was telling you
4:57
Speaker 3: off Hammer before we hit record was that this would
5:01
Speaker 3: have been the perfect year for IU Film Room because
5:05
Speaker 3: you know, Woody and Archie both had similar schemes in
5:08
Speaker 3: terms of like to play inside, were very methodical and
5:14
Speaker 3: how they did that, and then Debrees was just different.
5:16
Speaker 3: You know, Indiana played a lot of five out, we're out,
5:19
Speaker 3: one end stuff, just a lot of of different actions
5:24
Speaker 3: for shooters, which like, honestly, Woody and Archie didn't do
5:27
Speaker 3: a ton of and so it was fun to watch
5:31
Speaker 3: from that standpoint. Defensively, you know, Debree runs a little
5:36
Speaker 3: bit of a similar scheme to Archie and wood he did.
5:38
Speaker 3: You know, he'll pack things and he'll he'll try to
5:41
Speaker 3: to you know, take away your posts, which take away
5:45
Speaker 3: paint touches, not not anything that's earth shattering on that end.
5:49
Speaker 2: But you know, they did do some different things on
5:51
Speaker 2: ball screen coverages.
5:52
Speaker 3: And what I liked most about this team is like
5:55
Speaker 3: it really seemed like they they gained planned around the opponent.
5:59
Speaker 3: It wasn't it wasn't necessarily like and that's not ours
6:01
Speaker 3: shattering either. I'm not saying the other coaches didn't do that,
6:04
Speaker 3: but you know, they would change their ball screen coverages
6:06
Speaker 3: based on who they were playing. They they would run
6:08
Speaker 3: different sets based on if the defense was doubling in
6:13
Speaker 3: the post, or the defense was doubling on ball screens,
6:15
Speaker 3: or they were hedging, or whatever the case may beat
6:18
Speaker 3: it seemed like Indiana wasn't just like this is.
6:20
Speaker 2: Our system, this is what we're gonna do, and you
6:24
Speaker 2: know the defense is gonna have to stop. But they did.
6:26
Speaker 2: They did try to adjust things, and.
6:29
Speaker 3: So ultimately from a scheme perspective, I liked what I
6:32
Speaker 3: you did. I thought as a season more on obviously,
6:36
Speaker 3: you know it's a really well scattered league. Teams were
6:38
Speaker 3: taking away you know, Wilkerson and really trying to make
6:42
Speaker 3: some other guys beat them, which gave Indiana some fits.
6:45
Speaker 3: It really kind of slowed things down for them. I
6:47
Speaker 3: think they ended up being two hundred and fiftieth in
6:49
Speaker 3: the country in average possession length, So you know, it
6:54
Speaker 3: obviously wasn't perfect. They didn't make the NC DOUBLEA tournament,
6:57
Speaker 3: but there were some glimpses and some bright spots. I
7:00
Speaker 3: thought into kind of the scheming behind what Debris was doing.
7:04
Speaker 2: That that does give me.
7:05
Speaker 3: Hope for the future for Indiana, you know, and I'm
7:08
Speaker 3: sure we'll talk about it in a bit, but obviously,
7:11
Speaker 3: you know, more than anything, Indian's roster has to be
7:14
Speaker 3: built better, especially to compete in a Big ten.
7:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's That's one of the biggest things I've been
7:20
Speaker 1: thinking about recently, is just like how people should feel
7:23
Speaker 1: about this season. Obviously disappointment not making the tournament, but
7:27
Speaker 1: again that's kind of been what this program has been
7:30
Speaker 1: now for a good part of the last decade, not
7:33
Speaker 1: being able to make the tournament. So I don't think
7:35
Speaker 1: that's necessarily a surprise. But I think with the experience
7:38
Speaker 1: that they had on this team, It's one thing I've
7:40
Speaker 1: written about. I mean, you look at the Ken Palm profile,
7:42
Speaker 1: they had the most experienced team in the country out
7:44
Speaker 1: of anybody that's not necessarily experience. Obviously, playing in Indiana,
7:48
Speaker 1: but just in terms of the guys, the minutes they
7:50
Speaker 1: were playing in their Division one experience, Indiana had more
7:54
Speaker 1: of that than any team in the country relative to
7:57
Speaker 1: its opponents, And so I think from that perspective, it's
8:01
Speaker 1: fair to be disappointed that this team was kind of
8:03
Speaker 1: built with a lot of upperclassmen and you felt like
8:06
Speaker 1: the barometer for success was making it to the tournament.
8:09
Speaker 1: I'm curious just kind of you know, you followed this
8:11
Speaker 1: program for a long time. I'm guessing since you were
8:15
Speaker 1: a young kid as long as you can remember as
8:18
Speaker 1: a fan and someone that obviously you care a great
8:21
Speaker 1: deal about you basketball and how you know it performs
8:25
Speaker 1: on a season to season basis, been putting your opinions
8:29
Speaker 1: out there in your analysis now for quite a long time.
8:31
Speaker 1: Do you come away how do you come away feeling
8:34
Speaker 1: about this season in general? I mean, because there's I
8:37
Speaker 1: feel like there's a sentiment from some people that obviously
8:39
Speaker 1: they see what's going on in other schools with first
8:41
Speaker 1: year coaches and they think, well, it should be better. Well, clearly,
8:44
Speaker 1: I don't think you could ask the coaching staff if
8:46
Speaker 1: they're happy with the season and hear them say yes,
8:49
Speaker 1: they're obviously disappointed too, but it's not making excuses, it's
8:54
Speaker 1: just the reality of where things are right now. So
8:56
Speaker 1: I'm curious it's kind of how you balance that from
8:58
Speaker 1: a fan perspective and someone obviously cares about the health
9:02
Speaker 1: of this program where it's going.
9:04
Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, I mean basketball is a game of thin,
9:07
Speaker 3: thin margins, and the difference between in Iowa Sweet sixteen
9:13
Speaker 3: run in in Indiana not making the tournament is really
9:16
Speaker 3: not that big of a gap. Like, you know, Iowa
9:19
Speaker 3: and Indiana in terms of how their Big ten seasons
9:21
Speaker 3: played out, not too dissimilar. Both teams had some ups
9:24
Speaker 3: and downs. Obviously Indiana had a few more downs than Iowa.
9:28
Speaker 3: But you know, Iowa was a nine seed. It's not
9:30
Speaker 3: like they were just this this magical team all season
9:33
Speaker 3: that really put it all together. They're a team that
9:36
Speaker 3: got into the NCAA Tournament fairly comfortably, but as a
9:39
Speaker 3: nine seed not great. And then you know is making
9:42
Speaker 3: a run now, which is kind of what I think
9:44
Speaker 3: what Indiana fans wanted this season was make the tournament comfortably,
9:48
Speaker 3: be a seven to ten seed, have the opportunity to
9:51
Speaker 3: make the second weekend. Exactly what i was doing but
9:54
Speaker 3: again it's a game of thin margins. You know, Indiana
9:57
Speaker 3: was on the wrong side of those margins. And it's
9:59
Speaker 3: not to make excuses, but at the end of the
10:03
Speaker 3: day too, in a first year coach, like, there's a
10:06
Speaker 3: lot that you got to figure out, a lot has
10:08
Speaker 3: to come together, a lot of pieces have to kind
10:11
Speaker 3: of fall your way. Unfortunately for Debrees, it was his
10:16
Speaker 3: second takeover of a of a P four program in
10:19
Speaker 3: as many years.
10:21
Speaker 2: His most dynamite player West Virginia.
10:24
Speaker 3: Was was out of eligibility and his guard Gravan Small,
10:26
Speaker 3: who actually had Indiana tized to him.
10:30
Speaker 2: And you know, he brought his son over with him.
10:32
Speaker 3: He brought in right from his drape days, but not
10:35
Speaker 3: a lot of roster continuity. You know, I think college
10:39
Speaker 3: coaches in general now kind of get compared to say, well,
10:42
Speaker 3: obviously Debrees certainly kind of gets that comparison, and I
10:46
Speaker 3: think what what people kind of cast aside with sick
10:51
Speaker 3: is like he brought his culture with him from JMU
10:54
Speaker 3: and that really helps set the standard for debris. Obviously
10:58
Speaker 3: he's got his son, but that's the only thing he
11:00
Speaker 3: was able to bring with him to help set cultures,
11:03
Speaker 3: help help set standards and and it's hard to try
11:06
Speaker 3: to diet all those pieces together. In terms of recruiting,
11:11
Speaker 3: your timelines are are very thin. Assistant coaches, you know,
11:17
Speaker 3: in terms of debris assistant coaches, what he had at
11:20
Speaker 3: West Virginia basically none of them were going to work
11:22
Speaker 3: at it Indiana for one way or another outside of Norton,
11:25
Speaker 3: who he brought aboard. And then so that he scrambled
11:28
Speaker 3: to find coaches. So a lot of that's hard, Like
11:30
Speaker 3: it just is. It's not an excuse. It's hard to
11:32
Speaker 3: get all that done in a timely manner, put a
11:34
Speaker 3: roster together that can go compete in the Big Ten.
11:38
Speaker 3: You know, they had some some injury luck that didn't
11:41
Speaker 3: go their way too and some guys not being healthy
11:44
Speaker 3: throughout the duration of the season or whatever the case
11:47
Speaker 3: may be. But all that to say, the season was
11:50
Speaker 3: a disappointment, Right, Indiana didn't make the NCAA tournament with
11:53
Speaker 3: with the nil resources that they have. That should never
11:57
Speaker 3: be the case. You know, it's ultimately why the premium
12:00
Speaker 3: regimes were let go. You know, the resources that Indiana
12:05
Speaker 3: has should afford you an NCAA tournament at the very least.
12:08
Speaker 2: And so all that to say it was a disappointment.
12:12
Speaker 3: However, I do see a path forward where that doesn't
12:15
Speaker 3: continue to be the case. Why is that Indiana's roster
12:19
Speaker 3: construction pretty poor? There's we talked about why those reasons were.
12:23
Speaker 3: But to me, the biggest thing was that gives me
12:27
Speaker 3: some hope is that I think Degrees recognizes, Hey, that
12:30
Speaker 3: roster construction was bad.
12:31
Speaker 2: He got ahead of it.
12:32
Speaker 3: He hired Ryan carrs his GM, a guy that's got
12:34
Speaker 3: agent connections with every single agency, that has high level
12:40
Speaker 3: agent connections with all of the top college coaches or
12:44
Speaker 3: excuse me, college agents. And so like most people I
12:48
Speaker 3: think would say roster constructions are worse, saying, well, he's
12:50
Speaker 3: doing something to fix that. You know, he made the
12:54
Speaker 3: hire at the right time where that you know, early
12:58
Speaker 3: March is kind of when the agent conversations started happening.
13:02
Speaker 3: You know, I know nobody wants to actually say that
13:05
Speaker 3: or think that, but that's when it's happening.
13:07
Speaker 2: And so made to high at the right time.
13:09
Speaker 3: Indiana could get ahead of the game and the portal,
13:11
Speaker 3: which they weren't able to do last year. And then
13:14
Speaker 3: you know, his freshman recruiting is to me, on paper,
13:18
Speaker 3: looks really solid with the guys that he has coming in,
13:21
Speaker 3: and so there's a good bass layer that I think
13:24
Speaker 3: Indiana had lacked a bit with what he is certainly
13:29
Speaker 3: and even in Archie in the latter years. So there
13:32
Speaker 3: is some some light at the end of the tunnel.
13:34
Speaker 3: I'm not saying that guaranteeing that it's it's gonna be
13:38
Speaker 3: great next year or anything like that, but I do
13:40
Speaker 3: think that there are is the infrastructure in place that
13:43
Speaker 3: I think Indiana will be in a healthy spot as
13:47
Speaker 3: they move forward.
13:49
Speaker 1: One of the biggest things I've I've kind of I
13:51
Speaker 1: don't want to say I'm beating the drum on this,
13:53
Speaker 1: but one of the maybe things that was most disappointed
13:56
Speaker 1: with I think just from analyzing the roster last season
13:59
Speaker 1: was is the lack it felt like they obviously got
14:04
Speaker 1: some solid guys, upperclassmen. I mean, obviously Sam Alexis played
14:07
Speaker 1: a pretty good role, Lamar Wilkerson target, I mean, these
14:10
Speaker 1: are all Lamar Wilkerson was outstanding, but a lot of
14:12
Speaker 1: the other guys were solid contributors. I'm not sure that
14:15
Speaker 1: they would call them starters on an upper level Big
14:18
Speaker 1: ten team, but a lot of them played at are
14:21
Speaker 1: about expectations for them for the most part last season,
14:25
Speaker 1: but the lack of underclassmen that they were able to
14:28
Speaker 1: get that were able to make a contribution on last
14:32
Speaker 1: season's roster, that you could kind of look to for
14:36
Speaker 1: help in future seasons was maybe to me the most
14:38
Speaker 1: jarring thing when you look at this team, because right
14:41
Speaker 1: now it's all speculation in terms of who's coming, who's
14:43
Speaker 1: who's going for next season. I think we'll start to
14:46
Speaker 1: learn who is going to come back here in the
14:49
Speaker 1: next couple of weeks. Obviously, the portal doesn't officially open
14:52
Speaker 1: until April seventh, but I've been starting to track it.
14:56
Speaker 1: I think already four Big ten players from around the
14:58
Speaker 1: league have made their intentions known that they're going to
15:01
Speaker 1: enter the new thing now is not is entering the
15:03
Speaker 1: portals plans to enter the portal. So really nothing's changed
15:06
Speaker 1: in that regard you mentioned the conversations are happening in
15:08
Speaker 1: the background. I'm sure agents know who's going to be
15:11
Speaker 1: going in the portal. The things are happening in the background.
15:14
Speaker 1: But I think Indiana's the missed opportunity maybe from this
15:17
Speaker 1: season was not getting more out of some of those underclassmen.
15:21
Speaker 1: And I'm sure how many of those you can really
15:23
Speaker 1: count on moving forward. I think Trent Sissley's the guy
15:25
Speaker 1: you obviously want to keep. He was a a four
15:27
Speaker 1: star kid from the state of Indiana. I think he
15:30
Speaker 1: flashed on potential. Beyond that, I'm not sure exactly what
15:34
Speaker 1: the staff is thinking in terms of who they do
15:36
Speaker 1: want to keep and who they don't want to keep.
15:37
Speaker 1: There was a couple of guys who didn't play all
15:39
Speaker 1: season due to injury. It's hard for me to look
15:41
Speaker 1: at either of those guys and say you can count
15:43
Speaker 1: on them moving forward to play an integral role because
15:45
Speaker 1: quite frankly, they didn't do anything this season, and it's
15:47
Speaker 1: hard to count on that. So I'm just curious if
15:51
Speaker 1: you agree with with that in terms of maybe why
15:54
Speaker 1: that's there's some of the frustration from that standpoint, because
15:57
Speaker 1: there's really it almost seemed like they put all of
16:00
Speaker 1: the focus this season on the upper class man. Now
16:02
Speaker 1: they have really nothing to show for it in terms
16:04
Speaker 1: of a tangible result, and quite frankly, you're looking now
16:08
Speaker 1: at another roster reset and there's a lot of questions
16:10
Speaker 1: and who's actually gonna be on the team next season.
16:13
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it it It almost feels like it
16:16
Speaker 3: was just like a kind of lost year, like there's
16:19
Speaker 3: you know, there's there's not a lot of players that
16:22
Speaker 3: you're like, man, like that was the foundation was set.
16:25
Speaker 3: We could move forward with these guys. Add plug a
16:28
Speaker 3: couple of pieces in from the portal, and you got
16:30
Speaker 3: something like you're relying on another portal. Hal which was
16:35
Speaker 3: really the last couple of years of the Woody regime,
16:38
Speaker 3: was obviously the first year of the Breeze regime. So
16:40
Speaker 3: it's like you grow tired of that, especially when you
16:44
Speaker 3: know up the road at Purdue, you're you're watching this
16:46
Speaker 3: senior class that they built from the ground up really
16:50
Speaker 3: just kind of continue moving forward together and have great
16:54
Speaker 3: roster continuity and and guys that like you can get behind.
16:58
Speaker 3: Like that's as a fan what what is enjoyable to
17:02
Speaker 3: me kind of about college athletics is like there's that
17:05
Speaker 3: core group of guys that you watch kind of build
17:08
Speaker 3: up as as freshmen, that become contributors as sophomores, and
17:11
Speaker 3: by the time their seniors, you're like, man, I hate
17:13
Speaker 3: to see this guy go. Well, obviously there's there's none
17:16
Speaker 3: of that from this year's team, you know, there there
17:20
Speaker 3: there was a somewhat of kind of some apathy that
17:23
Speaker 3: it seemed to set in with the Indiana basketball program.
17:25
Speaker 3: Attendance wasn't high, even when announced numbers were high were high.
17:29
Speaker 3: You look at the corners of the balcony were never full,
17:32
Speaker 3: even for big games, and that's weird, uh, you know,
17:36
Speaker 3: as an Indiana fan to see that. But there's at
17:41
Speaker 3: the end of the day too, it's like there's a
17:43
Speaker 3: loss of connection with some of these guys, Like I
17:47
Speaker 3: can I can show my wife the floating head poster
17:49
Speaker 3: at the beginning of the season, like who are these
17:52
Speaker 3: guys and she has absolutely no idea. Obviously I do
17:54
Speaker 3: because I follow the program closely. Like so so for
17:57
Speaker 3: the fans that are just kind of like they just
18:00
Speaker 3: love Indiana basketball from November to March.
18:03
Speaker 2: Like, it's hard to have that connection.
18:04
Speaker 3: And so I get that from a fans standpoint, it's like, well,
18:07
Speaker 3: next year is going to be the same, They're gonna
18:10
Speaker 3: have to completely overhaul the roster.
18:13
Speaker 2: I do understand that frustration.
18:15
Speaker 3: I think it's some of it is the nature of
18:16
Speaker 3: coaching changes in college basketball. It's kind of especially in
18:21
Speaker 3: a pressure cooker like Indiana, Like obviously Debreez was trying
18:24
Speaker 3: to set his roster to win immediately.
18:28
Speaker 2: He went senior laden production.
18:30
Speaker 3: All that stuff, even if it was at lower levels,
18:33
Speaker 3: didn't really translate into great production from top to bottom,
18:38
Speaker 3: at least in the roster.
18:39
Speaker 2: So there's gonna have to be a reset.
18:41
Speaker 3: But obviously, you know, trans Sistley, as you mentioned, becomes
18:45
Speaker 3: a sophomore, a solid freshman class coming in as freshmen
18:50
Speaker 3: that that are gonna have to get time, so that
18:52
Speaker 3: it does seem like that foundation is being set, because
18:54
Speaker 3: if those guys aren't getting time again, Indiana is senior
18:58
Speaker 3: laden with Portalhall again and they don't make a lot
19:01
Speaker 3: of noise, it's probably going to get pretty toxic around here.
19:05
Speaker 1: Yet again, Yeah, I mean, I'm not saying that they
19:08
Speaker 1: can't get some seniors and have those guys be contributors,
19:10
Speaker 1: but they need to get a couple of guys from
19:12
Speaker 1: the portal at least that have multiple seasons of eligibility
19:15
Speaker 1: and there's no guarantee those guys stay. I mean, that's
19:17
Speaker 1: kind of the whole thing. You have to look at
19:19
Speaker 1: this on a year to your basis, it's not I'm
19:22
Speaker 1: getting this guy who was just a freshman in this league.
19:24
Speaker 1: He was pretty good. I can count on him for
19:26
Speaker 1: the next three years. However, the idea I think behind
19:30
Speaker 1: that is you get this player in, they have a
19:33
Speaker 1: great experience playing in Indiana, and then you hope to
19:36
Speaker 1: retain them. I think that's kind of the model you
19:38
Speaker 1: have to go with. And that's the same thing with
19:40
Speaker 1: these freshmen. That's why it's important that they get some
19:43
Speaker 1: time next year and some development. Whether or not you
19:45
Speaker 1: want a red shirt one of them or something like that,
19:47
Speaker 1: I have no idea, but I think at least a
19:49
Speaker 1: couple of them need to contribute in some fashion so
19:52
Speaker 1: you can kind of get them in the door, get
19:54
Speaker 1: them some experience. In year three, you count on them.
19:57
Speaker 1: Hopefully obviously it goes well and they want to stay.
20:00
Speaker 1: But do you think there's gonna be the patience afforded
20:04
Speaker 1: after what happened this season for that to occur, Because
20:07
Speaker 1: we all know, unless you're getting a plug and play
20:10
Speaker 1: guy like an Aj Debonsa or Darren Peterson or some
20:14
Speaker 1: of these other high level guys, freshmen are going to
20:17
Speaker 1: have bumps in the road. And when you're trying to
20:19
Speaker 1: win in the Big ten, I don't think you can
20:22
Speaker 1: really go completely young. So it's a delicate balance, and
20:25
Speaker 1: I think that's kind of where we run in defrees,
20:27
Speaker 1: runs into this problem of not making the tournament the
20:30
Speaker 1: first year, and now the patience level is a little
20:33
Speaker 1: bit lower. So I think it's a delicate balance that
20:34
Speaker 1: he's going to have to strike between trying to win
20:37
Speaker 1: big next season or at least get in the tournament
20:39
Speaker 1: and get some positive momentum going, but also looking forward
20:42
Speaker 1: to the future and saying, hey, I can't get six
20:45
Speaker 1: seniors again not playing these young guys, and then hope
20:49
Speaker 1: that I make the tournament, because if the same thing
20:51
Speaker 1: happens again you do that, then you're really in a
20:53
Speaker 1: tough situation.
20:55
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think if you're constantly relying on portal only,
20:59
Speaker 3: the very is just too high, Like you're never gonna
21:03
Speaker 3: hit on every portal guy.
21:05
Speaker 2: You're never gonna miss on every portal guy.
21:07
Speaker 3: But trying to figure that out year to year, I
21:10
Speaker 3: think you saw kind of muscle and getting that predicament
21:13
Speaker 3: with Arkansas.
21:13
Speaker 2: One year he'd have a great team.
21:15
Speaker 3: The next year he got all these great transfers on
21:18
Speaker 3: paper and they weren't very good. So I think your
21:20
Speaker 3: variance is too high year to year. If you're just
21:23
Speaker 3: solely relying on the portals. So in what I think,
21:27
Speaker 3: I love the Ryan car Hire. That guy worked in,
21:31
Speaker 3: in my estimation, the best front office in the in
21:35
Speaker 3: the highest best basketball organization in the world, in the NBA,
21:40
Speaker 3: and really understands what it means to build a roster
21:44
Speaker 3: for modern basketball. And not saying that Devrees didn't, but
21:50
Speaker 3: he said himself, like, you know, the Big ten's a
21:52
Speaker 3: bit more of a bear than we even thought in
21:55
Speaker 3: terms of the grueling nature of the league. Some of
21:59
Speaker 3: the bigs at the league has, like Indiana was out
22:02
Speaker 3: classed in the front court night in and night out,
22:05
Speaker 3: and so I think they have a year under their
22:08
Speaker 3: belt where they understand, all right, we know what we need.
22:12
Speaker 3: They have the right people in place. You know, it's
22:16
Speaker 3: it's not beneficially announced, but it seems as though, you know,
22:19
Speaker 3: Indiana's getting another assistant coach from from down south and
22:23
Speaker 3: somebody that has great connections. They've got Rod Clark that's
22:26
Speaker 3: got great connections to two great AU programs. They've got
22:29
Speaker 3: Anny Johnson who's got great connections to great AU programs.
22:32
Speaker 3: They Drew Adams that has local connections, and so you know,
22:37
Speaker 3: obviously there could be staff shake up. I don't know,
22:39
Speaker 3: But if all those guys are in place, you know,
22:43
Speaker 3: you've got connections all over the country to some of
22:46
Speaker 3: the best talent. You've got a guy in car that
22:50
Speaker 3: has connections to all of the agencies. Like again, the
22:54
Speaker 3: infrastructures in place where you can go get some of
22:56
Speaker 3: those multi year guys in the portal where you're not
23:00
Speaker 3: reliant on one year plug and play and trying to
23:05
Speaker 3: get all that to mesh and again that then that
23:08
Speaker 3: just shrinks your variants and you kind of know what
23:10
Speaker 3: you got going into the next season.
23:12
Speaker 1: Do you look at this as a situation where they
23:14
Speaker 1: need basically a whole new starting lineup?
23:19
Speaker 3: Yep, Yeah, I hadn't thought of it that way, But
23:22
Speaker 3: I'm looking in my head kind of thinking who was
23:25
Speaker 3: in the starting lineup last year?
23:26
Speaker 2: And I do you know, obviously.
23:30
Speaker 3: You know you had Wilkerson gone, Connorway gone, Debreeze gone,
23:33
Speaker 3: Bailey gone, Alexis gone, Dorn, Yeah, right gone. Dorn was
23:39
Speaker 3: into the starting line up for a little bit. It
23:41
Speaker 3: seems like that one could be up in the air.
23:44
Speaker 3: You know, I think he's a nice complimentary piece to have.
23:47
Speaker 3: But if if you're relying on him as your second
23:50
Speaker 3: or third scoring option, you're probably in some trouble there.
23:55
Speaker 2: And so yeah, I mean, honestly, I think you probably.
23:57
Speaker 1: The other guy. I think you obviously, I think you
23:59
Speaker 1: want more out of him next season. I think you
24:02
Speaker 1: want to build towards I think when he's an upperclassman,
24:05
Speaker 1: you want to look at him as someone kind of
24:06
Speaker 1: like a Trey Galloway, right, that's been in your program.
24:08
Speaker 1: That's been not saying they're the same player or the
24:10
Speaker 1: same position, but that's the kind of littleprint. You're going
24:14
Speaker 1: for a four year guy that by the time he's
24:17
Speaker 1: more of an upperclassman even next season, he's playing a
24:19
Speaker 1: role for you. He's familiar with their system. He's a
24:22
Speaker 1: continuity guy. I think he's a guy you can actually
24:24
Speaker 1: keep around. They need guys that they can keep around
24:26
Speaker 1: for multiple seasons. To me, he kind of fits that bill.
24:30
Speaker 1: So with that said, obviously we're not gonna speculate on names.
24:33
Speaker 1: We don't. I mean, the portal hasn't even it's just
24:36
Speaker 1: getting rolling now. It's not officially even open for business.
24:39
Speaker 1: But when you look at how the roster needs to
24:41
Speaker 1: be constructed next season, are there certain things that you'd
24:44
Speaker 1: like to see. You mentioned the front court, better shot blocker,
24:49
Speaker 1: better defensive rebounding. I think is thing better point guard play.
24:53
Speaker 1: I mean, what do you look for in terms of
24:56
Speaker 1: the if they do need let's say they need a
24:59
Speaker 1: brand new starting life. What are the things that you're
25:02
Speaker 1: looking for in terms of specific characteristics or traits and
25:04
Speaker 1: players that maybe need to be different from this past season.
25:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think number one is you have to have
25:10
Speaker 3: multiple guys that can put pressure.
25:12
Speaker 2: On the rim.
25:13
Speaker 3: Indiana played a lot of their offense going east and west,
25:16
Speaker 3: where they need to be going north and south. They
25:19
Speaker 3: just did not have consistent rim pressure guys that could
25:23
Speaker 3: attack with the ball in their hands. Connor Way was
25:26
Speaker 3: kind of that, but you know, his season was very
25:30
Speaker 3: up and down in terms of what he was able
25:32
Speaker 3: to contribute.
25:33
Speaker 2: Lamar Wilkerson I thought.
25:35
Speaker 3: Did a really nice job of being a guy that
25:37
Speaker 3: could put pressure on the rim. But outside of that,
25:40
Speaker 3: you know, you had in Wright who really by the
25:43
Speaker 3: end of the year, teams were daring him to even
25:45
Speaker 3: try to shoot, you know, or put pressure on the
25:48
Speaker 3: rim because they knew he was going to just try
25:49
Speaker 3: to kick out. Doran was very much spot up shooter,
25:53
Speaker 3: degrees wasn't really a threat to you know, get to
25:57
Speaker 3: the rim, and so to me, you need multiple guys
26:00
Speaker 3: that can do that. You know, teams across the country
26:04
Speaker 3: will track their paint touches and their points per possession
26:07
Speaker 3: when they get paint touches are unequivalently going to be
26:11
Speaker 3: much higher than if you're just passing the ball around
26:14
Speaker 3: the perimeter and you check up a shot as the
26:16
Speaker 3: shot clocks winding down, which Indiana found themselves in that
26:19
Speaker 3: situation far too often. So I think first and foremost
26:22
Speaker 3: you absolutely need that. I do think you need a
26:24
Speaker 3: guy that can protect the rim defensively. You know, Indiana
26:31
Speaker 3: really really had to just sit in gaps this year
26:34
Speaker 3: and provide pretty much no ball pressure. I think in
26:37
Speaker 3: terms of steal percentage. Yeah, there were three hundred and
26:41
Speaker 3: fiftieth in the country and steal percentage defensively because they
26:45
Speaker 3: couldn't go get in passing lanes. They couldn't apply a
26:48
Speaker 3: ball pressure because if you get beat off the dribble,
26:50
Speaker 3: there was there was pretty much nobody there to protect
26:53
Speaker 3: the rim three hundredths in the country and block percentage.
26:56
Speaker 2: So from a from.
26:58
Speaker 3: A aggression standpoint, on the defensive end, they had nothing. Basically,
27:03
Speaker 3: they let teams run their offense and hope they missed
27:05
Speaker 3: a shot.
27:06
Speaker 1: To me, when you're not creating anything for yourself off
27:09
Speaker 1: of your defense, it's easy. And then you're in your
27:12
Speaker 1: offense is mostly predicated on three point shooting. You're pretty
27:14
Speaker 1: much at the mercy of am I going to shoot
27:16
Speaker 1: well from three to win?
27:19
Speaker 2: And so that's that's a big one.
27:22
Speaker 3: You know, dynamic guards that can stress the rim and
27:25
Speaker 3: then bigs that can catch lobs, bigs that can protect
27:27
Speaker 3: the rim. You do need somebody that's got some some
27:31
Speaker 3: bulk to them just to compete in the Big Ten.
27:35
Speaker 3: You know, I think Indiana learned that the hard way.
27:39
Speaker 3: I understand that what Debris are trying to do. I
27:41
Speaker 3: think with kind of the Bailey at the five stuff,
27:45
Speaker 3: But obviously that didn't that didn't work out. It's a
27:49
Speaker 3: it's a grind to go through the Big Ten. You know,
27:52
Speaker 3: you're playing a twenty game season. Every team's got some
27:55
Speaker 3: some dudes with some bulk to them, and you know,
27:58
Speaker 3: rebounding wise, uh, Indiana struggled, especially in conference. I think, yeah,
28:05
Speaker 3: sixteen an offensive rebound percentage in the conference, and just
28:10
Speaker 3: how much.
28:10
Speaker 1: Of that do you think is scheme though in terms
28:12
Speaker 1: of him not wanting to crash, do you think that's
28:14
Speaker 1: something that he could want to do more in the
28:17
Speaker 1: future of his roster is different?
28:19
Speaker 2: I think yeah, certainly.
28:20
Speaker 3: Part of it is, you know, they're they're gonna send
28:23
Speaker 3: four guys back and one to the to the or
28:25
Speaker 3: to the glass, you know, just silly stuff like that
28:27
Speaker 3: where they're basically just trying to set their defense and
28:30
Speaker 3: not really put stress on on the other team's defense
28:34
Speaker 3: going for offensive boards. But yeah, I think you know,
28:38
Speaker 3: it's it's one of those things where you just have
28:42
Speaker 3: to get bigger, like it's it's if you don't, I
28:48
Speaker 3: think you run the risk of having the exact same
28:50
Speaker 3: scenario next year. And so if they can get some
28:53
Speaker 3: athleticism with some bulk to them, like not saying flip
28:58
Speaker 3: floor but don't get is a guy they should go after.
29:01
Speaker 3: But that kind of prototype like athleticism can dunk, it
29:06
Speaker 3: can protect the rim, he can go get your rebounds.
29:08
Speaker 3: Like those types of guys will certainly be able to premium.
29:12
Speaker 3: They're gonna cost you a lot of money.
29:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's like the toughest, probably the toughest thing.
29:17
Speaker 3: To get yeah, one hundred percent. And then obviously, like
29:21
Speaker 3: I think he likes to have shooters. You know, he
29:24
Speaker 3: wants guys that can face the floor and and it
29:27
Speaker 3: makes a lot of sense. You know, if you can
29:30
Speaker 3: if you can space the floor, that opens everything else up.
29:33
Speaker 3: And so you know that's where like the dorms and
29:37
Speaker 3: the sizzlies I can see making an impact next seasons
29:40
Speaker 3: as spot up threats. I think Cizily has a little
29:44
Speaker 3: bit more to his game than Dan that you know,
29:47
Speaker 3: he can go attack the rim, and he got some
29:48
Speaker 3: athleticism to him too. But those are guys that I
29:52
Speaker 3: do think can be in those scenarios next year should
29:55
Speaker 3: they come back where they can be those guys off
29:58
Speaker 3: the bench or you know six man or whatever that
30:00
Speaker 3: comes in.
30:00
Speaker 2: And gives a little bit of a different look.
30:03
Speaker 3: But any they got to get more athletic, you know,
30:05
Speaker 3: there was there was just not the athleticism needed to
30:10
Speaker 3: compete night in and night out.
30:13
Speaker 2: And I think Degrees understands that. I think that part.
30:15
Speaker 3: I think car certainly understands that in trying to build
30:19
Speaker 3: a roster, and so those would be the things that
30:22
Speaker 3: I would kind of put a premium on. But again,
30:25
Speaker 3: the caveat is that everybody wants those things, and so
30:31
Speaker 3: you know, that's where nil comes in play. That's where
30:33
Speaker 3: recruiting comes in play. That's where relationships come in play.
30:37
Speaker 3: And why I do feel good about the infrastructure Indiana
30:40
Speaker 3: has with all of the different people they have that
30:42
Speaker 3: have relationships across the country.
30:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's another reason why. And this is
30:47
Speaker 1: a whole separate discussion, but I think it was pretty
30:50
Speaker 1: smart targeting. I know they went after some of the
30:53
Speaker 1: higher five star kids in recruiting, but they ultimately landed
30:56
Speaker 1: on some of these guys in are ranked maybe between
30:58
Speaker 1: fifty and one to twenty five. Those guys are a
31:01
Speaker 1: lot cheaper to get, at least in the first year
31:04
Speaker 1: than the top portal guys from my understanding in terms
31:07
Speaker 1: of money. So hopefully you bring those guys in and
31:10
Speaker 1: they develop into players that can you can count on
31:13
Speaker 1: moving forward, and they kind of fill those spots and
31:15
Speaker 1: then you're just kind of filling gaps from the portal,
31:17
Speaker 1: but you actually have to get to that point, which
31:19
Speaker 1: is a couple of years down the road, and so
31:21
Speaker 1: it's very important that they fill the spots better than
31:27
Speaker 1: they did, Like I mean, quite frankly, you know, we
31:30
Speaker 1: all analyzed who they picked up last year. I think
31:34
Speaker 1: there was a lot of good things that they did.
31:36
Speaker 1: There's obviously some things that they missed on. They have
31:39
Speaker 1: to see what they did last season, learn what they
31:43
Speaker 1: did wrong. And again, you're not gonna hit on every
31:45
Speaker 1: portal guy. No team across the country goes to a
31:50
Speaker 1: transfer portal cycle that recruits the portal heavily and hits everyone.
31:54
Speaker 1: There's gonna be some guys that if they have to
31:56
Speaker 1: add six or seven portal guys this season, which it
31:59
Speaker 1: looks like that's probably around the number, if maybe not
32:01
Speaker 1: a little bit more they're gonna have to add. There's
32:03
Speaker 1: you hope you hit on four or five of them, right,
32:05
Speaker 1: and those guys are good enough to help you win games.
32:07
Speaker 1: If you don't, and you couldn't be in for another
32:10
Speaker 1: long season. That it's hard for me. This is why
32:14
Speaker 1: these guys are making the money they are. It's a
32:16
Speaker 1: tough job. It's not easy. I'm encouraged like you that
32:20
Speaker 1: they've seem to have a better infrastructure in place than
32:23
Speaker 1: they did last This time last year, we were having
32:25
Speaker 1: conversations about how they were going to fill out the
32:27
Speaker 1: coaching staff and who was going to be the first commitment.
32:30
Speaker 1: Now it's more of like, all right, who's coming back?
32:33
Speaker 1: Who are they going to target in the portal? When
32:34
Speaker 1: it actually I mean they're.
32:35
Speaker 3: Already unfairly certain degrees. Was like working out of a
32:38
Speaker 3: closet in the locker. Yeah, he didn't have his office yet.
32:41
Speaker 1: Right for sure. So it'll be a much different spring.
32:44
Speaker 1: Hopefully it'll be the result. End result will be a
32:48
Speaker 1: much better more balanced roster for next season. We'll see.
32:52
Speaker 1: We'll be here along the way to cover at Tony
32:54
Speaker 1: And once again, congratulations on your success. They're in your
32:57
Speaker 1: return to coaching. Hopefully that continue news good luck with
33:00
Speaker 1: us spring workouts coming up soon.
33:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you.
33:03
Speaker 3: Always a pleasure coming on here. I always appreciate when
33:06
Speaker 3: I see the DM come through. I'm excited about it
33:08
Speaker 3: every time. So I appreciate you bringing.
33:10
Speaker 1: Back as I had to wait un till you got
33:12
Speaker 1: through the end of the season. Didn't want to interrupt
33:15
Speaker 1: you during the season. I appreciate you taking the time.
33:17
Speaker 1: Happy for your success, and thanks as always for coming on.
33:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you.
33:22
Speaker 1: If you enjoyed the show, please leave us the rating
33:24
Speaker 1: and review over on Apple Podcast or on Spotify. If
33:27
Speaker 1: you're watching over on YouTube, like the video, subscribe to
33:29
Speaker 1: the channel, send it to another IU fan that may
33:32
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Speaker 1: thinks might find this content interesting. Always appreciate the support,
33:38
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33:41
Speaker 1: All the Break