Latest / The Scene Projects / Darin R. Kaiser on Coaching Entrepreneurs, Business Growth, and Building a Legacy

Transcript

Darin R. Kaiser on Coaching Entrepreneurs, Business Growth, and Building a Legacy · The Scene Projects

• 0:22
  Real Biz.
• 0:24
  I am your host Bubba Starts, and with me today from Enterprise Sage, Darren Arkheiser.
• 0:28
  Darren, welcome to the show.
• 0:30
  Thanks, man.
• 0:31
  I'm happy to be here.
• 0:33
  Yeah.
• 0:33
  Absolute pleasure to have another Enterprise Sage, member come on with us.
• 0:38
  We had Courtney Morningstar, one of our very first guests on the show.
• 0:42
  So glad that we could connect today.
• 0:44
  And, we're gonna kinda flip the show on its head a little bit, here later, and I'm gonna be
• 0:49
  in the position of of being the one maybe answering some questions from you guys.
• 0:54
  So, really, really, excited about this one today.
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  Before we get into all of that, Darren, really just wanna get a little bit of your personal
• 1:01
  backstory, and then we'll pick it up from there.
• 1:04
  Nice.
• 1:04
  I love it, man.
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  So the the long and short of it is, I've been an athlete, been in a coaching role the
• 1:13
  majority of my forty almost forty three years here on this earth.
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  And so my professional background was, I worked in in a coaching role in human resources for
• 1:24
  the town of Breckenridge.
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  So I did all of their onboarding, all of their orientations.
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  I did professor ed.
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  And so the majority of my days, were, you know, guiding, coaching, administering, helping
• 1:35
  staff.
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  And that's really where professionally got my start.
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  I had done some other coaching, you know, youth sports, for a little while.
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  Grew up in North Central Indiana.
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  I I taught wakeboarding, wake surfing.
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  So understanding a pathway of here's where we're at today, here's where we wanna be, and
• 1:53
  how do we close that gap has just been in in my life for, oh, over two decades now.
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  And then my wife and I, we, moved from Wreckingridge down into Denver Metro Area,
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  which is where we live now with our family.
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  And we had a a gym that we very specialized into very, specific wellness, before that even
• 2:16
  became a thing.
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  So we did, blood work and biomarker testing and supplementation, nutrition, life coaching,
• 2:24
  fitness coaching to the extent where, you know, we knew a lot of data, and in business data
• 2:31
  drives business.
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  And so I would geek out on the data side of things, but then I would have to, put that into
• 2:37
  layman's terms for the client, for the the the end user so they could understand, okay.
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  I'm bought in.
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  I understand, why I'm doing what I'm doing, and I and I have the tools now necessary to to
• 2:49
  close that delta down.
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  Through that experience, I moved into strategic tax coaching.
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  My background is business.
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  And so I learned a lot over the last four years, working in the lower middle market,
• 3:02
  helping, you know, businesses that are, you know, grossing somewhere between 5 and
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  50,000,000.
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  How do they, you know, get out of paying $6.07 figures in taxes in a legal above board manner?
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  So I would again, I would do analytics.
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  I would talk with the client.
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  I would work with them with their technical cohorts.
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  I would make sure everybody was speaking the same language, moving in the same direction to
• 3:25
  reach the client's goal.
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  Through that experience, I met Craig Morningstar, who's my business partner, and
• 3:30
  also Courtney Morningstar, business partner in enterprise stage.
• 3:33
  And they said, Darren, we we really like what we saw when we worked with you prior to this.
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  You're charismatic.
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  You have a passion and a heart for coaching and for seeing others succeed, and we wanna expound
• 3:43
  on that.
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  And so that's what has brought me into working alongside Craig and Courtney and our team at
• 3:48
  Enterprise Sage for, 2026.
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  It started up in January.
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  And and my passion really is, looking at a situation that, is good but needs optimization
• 4:03
  and then being able to eloquently put together a a treatment plan or course of action to go
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  from a a good position to a really exceptional position.
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  And that's really what my passion is.
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  I I love coaching.
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  I love seeing people come in with something that they're like, I've tried to figure this
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  out.
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  Don't know what to do, how to do it.
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  And and and so let's work on these things together.
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  Let's get on the same side of the table to move forward.
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  And that way, the course of weeks, months, years, we get into a position that that maybe
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  we didn't think was possible or we thought possible, but just didn't know how to execute
• 4:37
  in a very timely and efficient manner.
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  And so that's what brings me here today.
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  And, Bubba, I'm really excited to to jump into it with you and looking forward to having some
• 4:46
  discourse.
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  And, and, yeah, this is gonna be a great convo.
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  For sure.
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  And and it's funny you you kinda broke down the coaching exactly how I did, just a few hours
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  ago on another interview with a golf coach.
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  And and exactly what you said.
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  He's digging into the data and using, you know, AI to spit out the analytics, but then breaking
• 5:06
  down all of that data to something that me, kind of a big dummy on the golf course and and
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  in my business as well as you'll find out today, that how do you get better?
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  What are the things you need to do?
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  How do we look at all of that data and and put that into terms that someone can understand and
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  take actionable steps to fixing or improving?
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  Yeah.
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  Well and I think I think the first step is having a realistic objective.
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  I know lots of decisions are made based on emotion and feel, which is great.
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  That can start the fire, and that can get you moving in the right direction.
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  But longevity and and and long term success and growth really boils down to discipline and
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  systems and things that are repeatable.
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  Whether I feel like it wanna do it, I'm, I I'm happy to do it.
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  It doesn't really matter.
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  It's still at the end of the day, it has work has to get done.
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  As a as a young man, I, grew up on a farm, And you don't, you don't understand the if you've
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  never been in the farming world, there's a lot of days you show up to dirt, and it's, hard and
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  not rewarding and not filling with the perspective that we're gonna have a big harvest
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  somewhere down the road.
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  And and so you could be motivated some days, but there's a lot of days where you just gotta
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  show up to dirt and you gotta show up and you gotta put in the the systems and the practices
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  knowing that if I do these things, there's a really high probability that there's gonna be a
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  great outcome even though I can't see it yet.
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  And so I think that's a that's a big component for a lot of business owners is I need to focus
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  on the things I can control and can do today and just stack them.
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  Stack them.
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  Stack them.
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  Stack them.
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  Because at some point in time, that's gonna pay off big dividends down the road.
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  I don't know if that'll be a year from now or ten years from now, but that seems to be a
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  resounding theme.
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  Do you
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  feel that's something that a lot of business owners early on and especially young
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  entrepreneurs maybe in their first business that they have trouble kind of accepting, in
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  those first early years that, that the work to reward ratio are going
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  to be
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  extremely lopsided, maybe for a decade in some cases, but as long as you stay focused on the
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  daily work that you you know you're going to get there.
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  I do.
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  And I and I think if we even if we even zoom back out from that even more, I'm I was guilty
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  of this myself.
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  I've seen this a lot with entrepreneurs, young and old.
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  There is an identity associated or tied to said thing.
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  And a lot of people go off on their own because they're really good at something or they're
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  exceptionally talented in a certain area.
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  They've got a very unique skill set.
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  They've got a something that that creates a competitive advantage for them above the rest.
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  You know, they've been working for somebody, and they go, I can do this on my own.
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  I'm really good at this thing, so I'm gonna go do it.
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  And then it becomes almost their persona And the ability to stay disconnected to the extent
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  necessary to make objective decisions is really challenging.
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  And and so I would say, you know, in that first when you're looking at branching out on your
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  own, you still have to say, you know what?
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  I'm a unique person that has unique value, and this thing that I'm building over here is not
• 8:30
  me.
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  And it's unique, and it's got its own persona and personality and lifestyle, and it wants to
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  stay alive too.
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  And if we blend those things together, man, things get really hairy really quick because we
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  we, you know, we don't wanna hurt our baby.
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  We don't wanna have that tough conversation.
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  We don't wanna look introspectively when that might be the best thing to do for that
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  business.
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  And I'm guilty of that.
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  I was guilty of that.
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  It took a long time.
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  It took took my first business to, you know, really go through some tough tough times for me
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  to go, you know what?
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  I'm not these are two separate things.
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  And if this thing's successful, great.
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  If it's not successful, that's fine too.
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  But that doesn't change me.
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  And I think that's a big piece for a lot of new business owners.
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  And and businesses who've been in the business, maybe it's their only business.
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  They've been doing it for twenty, thirty years.
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  And, you know, the the there's not an objective look at this as an asset that's not mine.
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  Well and something else that you talk about that ties with that, and this ties in perfectly
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  to, you know, starting to get more more personal about this and to talk about some of
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  our businesses.
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  For me, you know, we we talked about my my music career and all of those things, and it's
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  very hard for me to look at the band and that artist career as something that was outside of
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  myself, especially with something as personal as songs that you're writing and and on a
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  performance that you are solely you know, it it it is you at the beginning and at the end of it
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  no matter what.
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  So it was really hard for me to pull me out of that, and it was also something very important
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  as I was beginning in this podcasting journey, always knowing that it was multiple layers to
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  this.
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  We started off with kind of three shows within a show from the Jump Street.
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  So I knew that it was much bigger than just a single podcast and interviews.
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  I wanted to do more.
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  I wanted to do live events.
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  I wanted to be at other events and covering them as media.
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  So there were so many layers to that that it was very important to me.
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  My band is called starts and ends.
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  So what is starts and ends without Bubba starts at the head of it?
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  It's it's just the ends.
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  Right?
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  That's why I was very adamant early on that I didn't want, you know, the Bubba starts
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  podcast.
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  I wanted something that was its own entity so that if I removed myself from that eventually,
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  that the company and that would still have value.
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  I think that it's very hard early on for business owners to set themselves up for that
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  to say, hey.
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  What is this without me inside of it?
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  Whether it's a name on there, but the the ultimately, it that's part of the company value
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  and something that I think we're going to talk about now.
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  So maybe this is a a good pivot here, Darren, to just say, here, I'm Bubba.
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  Here are the things that I do.
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  This is, you know, the the scene projects and all of our stuff, and I'm coming to Enterprise
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  Sage as a potential client.
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  I'll kinda turn it over to you and ask you kind of how does that process begin and and where do
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  we start our conversation from?
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  I love
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  it, man.
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  And I and I think you draw a really good picture of of the struggles that some people
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  have.
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  And there are certain industries that I think are more conducive to that separation.
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  The the the performing arts industry is very subjective in nature.
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  It's very, it's you.
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  It's you are the product in a lot of ways.
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  And and there may not be a whole lot of transferable wealth unless you you really do
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  separate some things out.
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  But, but I can see how that could be very challenging.
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  I side note, fun fact, grew up in a very, music family, did a lot of performing arts and
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  theater myself.
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  And so I had the, the pleasure of singing the national anthem for the town of Breckenridge
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  for the international snow sculpture competition, the USA Pro Cycling Challenge.
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  So I've, I've cut my teeth in that a little bit, not to the extent you have.
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  But I I know what you went through, man, and I and then and then when you're on stage and all
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  eyes are on you, it's like, oh, it's me.
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  And there it's very, very open.
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  But to go back to business, I think the first thing that we have to discuss is, like you
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  said, you came from the performing arts world.
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  You've now gone into this segment of business podcasting, which is also a a performing
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  performance of some extent.
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  But but what you did, and this is for the business owner out there, you you built a thing
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  that if if nobody knew who you were, it could still withstand the test of time.
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  If nobody knew who Bubba was, this thing would still function, and there are people that can
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  carry the torch.
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  And I'm not gonna say that you know, if you're listening to this and you are in a w two
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  position right now and you wanna be your own boss and you want to go out on your own and do
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  something, there are wonderful entrepreneurs out there that they're gonna go make their
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  money.
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  They're gonna go provide a beautiful lifestyle and be philanthropic and provide a legacy.
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  And their goal isn't to create transferable wealth.
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  That's totally fine.
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  There's nothing wrong with that.
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  Now would I say to that as a business, or is that your own job, your own solopreneurship?
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  That's where the difference, I think, comes in.
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  Because, what we look at in our world is this is what I'm gonna ask you is is is a business
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  something that I do, or is a business something that I build that somebody else can do?
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  And so my question back to you, Bubba, is is what you're building right now, is it something
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  that you do, or is it something you want somebody else to be able to do?
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  And they look at it as I want to buy that thing.
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  Well and that was exactly the differentiation I was trying to make between that artist and
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  treating my entertainment, you know, company in that facet as something that without me, it
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  doesn't function at all to a lot of extents.
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  And it was okay.
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  That that's never going to be something that sustains the test of time.
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  And I think, you know, getting out on tour at thirty seven years old and and playing till,
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  you know, two in the morning, you know, these four, five hour shows where I was like, oh, I
• 14:45
  definitely don't want this bad enough now at this point in my life, you know, to be away
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  from my wife and my family.
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  I don't want that.
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  So what is something that I can build to possibly sell one day?
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  And branching out on those, and that was how the scene projects was really built.
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  I didn't want it to be the Bubba starts experience, although in the early going, of
• 15:05
  course, that's what it was.
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  I was that host, but it's been very reliant on me identifying new talent, other people that
• 15:11
  are interested in doing what I'm doing to bring them in as host of these things to help me
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  build that value so that maybe one day, not the entire company possibly being for sale, but one
• 15:22
  of these things can be broken off if a show should get so popular and has value outside of
• 15:27
  the world with me pulled away from it, would that brand now have value all of its own?
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  So definitely, the the latter, in this case now with the scene project to say, I I wanted
• 15:39
  something that I can build.
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  And whether it ever gets to that point of being able to sell it and somebody else sees the
• 15:46
  value in that and says I want to buy that, that's a little bit out of my control.
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  All I can do is build the value of that and whether the market dictates whether that, you
• 15:56
  know, has value later on and that value is enough for me to walk away from it.
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  That that's a conversation for a later day.
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  Yeah.
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  But I think you you nailed the right question.
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  And the question for the entrepreneur is, is this something that I am there there is an
• 16:13
  innate desire that this is something that I want to build that is attractive enough that
• 16:21
  someone, sometime and and and that's not an exit strategy necessarily.
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  It's not a I wanna be I wanna sell this thing.
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  We're gonna take it to market in five, ten years.
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  But there there is an innate desire even before all that that I want somebody to look at this
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  thing and and make me an offer someday.
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  Or if I were to take it to market, this thing has legs underneath it that somebody's gonna
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  say, yeah.
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  I I see the value, and I can expound on that.
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  I can expound on this and create some other value, not just for my family, but for somebody
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  else.
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  And so, I think that's the that's the root of the question.
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  If there's not that desire there, grow it and and make it flourish to the extent possible,
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  but just have a realistic expectation that, when it's when you're done, it's done.
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  And I think that's the biggest differentiating factor.
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  And especially when we look at clients or prospective clients for enterprise stage,
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  that's a big differentiating factor for us too.
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  And so, I guess, to go back to you is, you know, the next question would be, k.
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  Now that we've made that choice, what are the necessary things that you need to start doing
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  today, or what are the things you've already done to start positioning this and creating
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  this delta or this void between you and the business itself?
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  So what are some things that you've already done to really start to I don't know.
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  What play second fiddle.
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  I guess it's a good way to put it.
• 17:49
  Right.
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  Well and in the podcasting world, it was identifying other talent and building them up.
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  So I have to kinda change my, mentality from, okay.
• 17:58
  I wanna be a really great host and the fact that we had, you know, one content creator of
• 18:02
  the year and establish a little bit of authority and just got a ton of reps in.
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  Right?
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  I've done over a thousand interviews on my own.
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  I've built up a ton of experience in this realm now, not coming from a broadcasting or
• 18:14
  communications background minus my, you know, time spent on stage for the last quarter of a
• 18:18
  century.
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  But all of that's a lot different than being in front of a camera or in front of a microphone
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  as and, you know, being the host of an interview show.
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  I had never done anything like that.
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  So early on, it's all about getting the reps for myself.
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  And then how do I provide reps for others to get just as good as I am doing the same thing
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  so we have someone to pass that torch to?
• 18:44
  So it was, talent, you know, kind of assessment and then bringing that talent along to
• 18:51
  establish them as their own authority inside of, First Star Network and then hopefully,
• 18:58
  bigger and better things for them.
• 19:00
  Nice.
• 19:00
  Okay.
• 19:01
  So raises a a great question.
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  When do you feel like the transition and I'm gonna relate this because because everybody
• 19:08
  knows, it's football season now.
• 19:10
  It's the fall.
• 19:11
  I'm I'm in Denver, so we're Broncos fans.
• 19:13
  Thank goodness we won recently.
• 19:15
  But when for you did you make that transition of going from more of the athlete into more of
• 19:23
  this, like, almost coach role?
• 19:27
  Because you're not always on the field operating and running plays.
• 19:31
  Now we're we're off the field.
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  We're analyzing.
• 19:33
  We're looking at new talent.
• 19:35
  Who can do this?
• 19:36
  Who can do that?
• 19:37
  And so when do you think that transition happened for you?
• 19:39
  Because I think it's an important piece for your story too.
• 19:43
  Yeah.
• 19:43
  It it probably happened way earlier than maybe it even should have, but, I have some some
• 19:49
  great mentors and people that I pay attention to that have, you know, kind of always preached
• 19:55
  teaching what you know.
• 19:57
  And knowing that there's so many people out here in the world now that want to be
• 20:01
  podcasters or content creators or whatever it may be, that even though I may not be the
• 20:06
  biggest audience wise on the planet, those things take time to build up.
• 20:12
  I still have a lot of skills that I had had built over that course of just the last two and
• 20:18
  a half years, and, really, I started teaching maybe a year and a half in.
• 20:21
  So for the past twelve months is really turning around and going, okay.
• 20:24
  Well, what do I know that I can teach to someone else and bring them along?
• 20:28
  And and and we can start to grow together and and to bring them up to speed to where I am.
• 20:33
  So it was very early on in the process.
• 20:36
  As soon as because I got to a 100 episodes in nine months.
• 20:39
  I just went all in on it, said I'm gonna get to this magical number with podcasters.
• 20:43
  They're like, well, you're not a real podcaster until you have a 100 episodes.
• 20:46
  Well, I wasn't gonna sit around for two years releasing an episode a week to get to that.
• 20:50
  It was how do we get these out as fast as possible, get all of those reps in, feel good
• 20:55
  about the product that we're putting out there.
• 20:57
  And and as soon as I kinda had a pretty firm grasp on that, and maybe it was, you know,
• 21:01
  April 2025 winning the content creator of the year award from the Midwest Country Music
• 21:06
  Organization, that gave that level of a a little bit of authority.
• 21:10
  Hey.
• 21:10
  You kinda know what you're doing.
• 21:12
  So now I can, and not that I was trying to, you know, take on and be a podcast coach to many
• 21:19
  people and to build a business out of that.
• 21:21
  It was how do I take a few people under my wing, teach them what I know, and see if I'm
• 21:27
  any good at that.
• 21:28
  And then watching them flourish over the course of the last twelve months has been super
• 21:33
  rewarding for me because, I've seen success and their success is my success as well.
• 21:40
  And are they ready to step in and to run the whole business, today?
• 21:45
  Probably not.
• 21:46
  I I keep a lot of plates spinning, and I realize that I I am probably uniquely built for
• 21:52
  some of those, environments, especially on the stress side and being able to manage, you know,
• 21:57
  12 tasks in a single day probably and changing that many hats.
• 22:01
  But the it first starts with, can you do the job?
• 22:05
  Can you host the shows?
• 22:07
  Can you start to do your own booking and acquiring, you know, guests and talent in that
• 22:12
  way?
• 22:13
  And I could teach that without having to have ten years of experience.
• 22:18
  Well and I think for the listener, there there comes a time when you know, like you said, I I
• 22:26
  I got these reps under my belt.
• 22:28
  I developed this skill set.
• 22:30
  I had sharpened my craft, and then I wanted to bestow that on somebody else, see them change.
• 22:40
  And so what what for you is rewarding out of disseminating that information, coaching
• 22:48
  somebody, bringing them up through your extensions?
• 22:50
  What what for you is rewarding for that?
• 22:54
  I think for any great coach is seeing the success of of your, you know, athletes and of
• 23:00
  your pupils, if you will, to see them succeed.
• 23:03
  I think that I didn't know how good that was going to feel until I saw it in real life.
• 23:10
  And I was like, oh, that was pretty awesome to be able to take you from I don't have a podcast
• 23:16
  and I don't feel comfortable in this space and I don't know what I'm doing to watching them
• 23:20
  standing on their own two feet and really having something built there.
• 23:25
  And that was something that kinda keeps me going because we can recreate that process now
• 23:31
  and and, you know, not that like I said, I I don't necessarily at this moment have any
• 23:36
  inclination to, you know, start a coaching clinic by any means where we're doing this at
• 23:40
  scale, but it it teaches me that, well, now if we can teach that to someone, what else can we
• 23:47
  teach them?
• 23:48
  How can we prepare these other people to become teachers themselves?
• 23:51
  And then having that magnified, scope of it because maybe someone that we bring in and
• 23:56
  teach how to do the things that we do, maybe they take to the coaching and really take off
• 24:01
  in that marriage.
• 24:02
  And now we've magnified that impact that we're having, by by who we're teaching and how we're
• 24:07
  approaching the situation.
• 24:09
  Well, I think I think
• 24:10
  if we boil it down, think you would agree to this that regardless of you're doing coaching,
• 24:14
  quote, unquote, coaching work, the we go back to that question of and this is kind of where
• 24:20
  we centered our conversation beginning is how do we position a business to grow and expand
• 24:26
  and be attractive for an acquisition is there has to be a point in time where I find this
• 24:33
  innate joy in seeing others' people's success and the, you know, the light bulb moments or
• 24:41
  the smiles or the I didn't think I could do that.
• 24:44
  Like, I had no I didn't know that was in me.
• 24:47
  And and I think even if you're not really a coach, but you're the entrepreneur who wants to
• 24:51
  grow an asset, there has to be something that's just ingrained, built in.
• 24:55
  You don't quite understand it, but you love seeing and being part of that story of someone
• 25:01
  else's success.
• 25:02
  It doesn't have to be directly yours.
• 25:04
  Like, you don't have to be the one accepting the medal, but you're part of that story.
• 25:08
  You're part of that building process for that person.
• 25:11
  It's like, oh, I was part of this story.
• 25:13
  And for me, that happened really early on.
• 25:15
  I remember, we were, I was helping run a clinic for wakeboarding.
• 25:21
  And if you've ever been behind a boat in the water and it's the first time you've ever done
• 25:24
  it, that can be really nervy, especially when you're young.
• 25:28
  And so we were coaching kids basically between the ages of eight and 12.
• 25:31
  Some were good.
• 25:32
  Some had been behind the boat.
• 25:33
  Some had never been there.
• 25:35
  And so to actually see them and I, you know, I was young twenties, college age, that that that
• 25:44
  switch for me to coaching that really drew me in was that first time that there's this fear.
• 25:51
  Like, I don't I I'm terrified.
• 25:54
  And you're like, nope.
• 25:55
  Just trust me.
• 25:56
  We're gonna walk through these steps together.
• 25:58
  And then there's that initial, like, I got up, I'm super excited, and then I fall flat on my
• 26:03
  face.
• 26:04
  And I get up again, fall flat on my face, and I get up.
• 26:06
  And then we were teaching kids that they could they could do it, and they could ride it.
• 26:09
  And then we'd we'd pull them back into the boat, and they just wouldn't stop talking about
• 26:13
  it.
• 26:13
  They wouldn't stop, like, smiling about it.
• 26:16
  And and the same thing happens even as you get older in life.
• 26:19
  I think we I think we lose that joy of, like, new experiences when we get older, and we get
• 26:26
  really comfortable.
• 26:27
  And we lose that excitement, that fear, that anxiety of, oh, I don't know if this is gonna
• 26:32
  work.
• 26:33
  But as an entrepreneur, like, that being part of that story of bringing people in, coaching
• 26:41
  people, transition that you see the fear on their face, and you're like, yep.
• 26:46
  I know what you're feeling, and we're gonna fall a few times.
• 26:50
  But, man, there's gonna come a day when this becomes second nature to you.
• 26:55
  And you're gonna come to me one day smiling.
• 26:58
  You're like, thank you so much.
• 27:00
  The last three months have been really hard.
• 27:01
  Last six months have been excruciating.
• 27:03
  And and you can see I'm getting I'm getting kinda worked up because I'm I'm I'm very
• 27:07
  passionate about this.
• 27:08
  But I think for you, Bubba, like, you're right.
• 27:10
  You get to that point where you see that that transition in them, and they're like, man.
• 27:17
  Like, thank you for believing in me.
• 27:18
  Thank you for seeing what I couldn't see.
• 27:21
  And that's, I think, is the the difference between exceptional coaches, exceptional
• 27:25
  entrepreneurs is they can see way out in advance what the other people can't see.
• 27:29
  They're not so stuck.
• 27:30
  Their nose, we say in enterprise stage, the nose and the tree bark.
• 27:34
  But they see they step back and see the forest for what it is, and they can see the change.
• 27:39
  And I and I think for you, you're you're seeing that.
• 27:41
  We see that all the time.
• 27:43
  And for the listener out there, there is gonna be listeners for you that this falls flat.
• 27:48
  And you're like, I love being the athlete.
• 27:49
  I love operating.
• 27:50
  I love going out there and taking the hill.
• 27:52
  And then there are other people who go, you know what?
• 27:54
  I I like that too, but I also really like seeing other people take the hill and report
• 27:59
  back and go, man, that was awesome.
• 28:01
  And you're like, yeah.
• 28:02
  I know.
• 28:03
  So so question for you.
• 28:06
  So now at this stage in your life, where do you feel, that you drive the most joy in your
• 28:14
  business and your entrepreneurship journey?
• 28:18
  It's a great question.
• 28:20
  It's it's easy to turn to the, events and the things that we get to do and to point at those,
• 28:26
  right, being at the Vikings home opener just a few weeks ago.
• 28:30
  And, you know, this weekend, we'll be going to a big rodeo event here in South Dakota.
• 28:36
  And a lot of the things that we were paying out of pocket to go to, we now have media
• 28:41
  credentials for.
• 28:42
  So really easy to point at at those moments as being something great.
• 28:46
  But I think one of the most rewarding things to me and kinda ties into what we're talking about
• 28:50
  here is is bringing in more creators.
• 28:53
  And especially now that we have our own Roku channel with the Scene Project Sports Network
• 28:58
  and seeing that taking off, it it really opened a lot more doors for us as far as properties
• 29:04
  go.
• 29:04
  Right?
• 29:05
  We we can cover every sport.
• 29:06
  There's an I know immediately there's not enough time in any day for me to do all of the
• 29:11
  things.
• 29:12
  So it's really been in identifying people and and and having people now reaching out to us
• 29:17
  that are like, hey.
• 29:18
  I see you.
• 29:20
  How are you doing this?
• 29:22
  I'm interested in that.
• 29:23
  Can you teach me?
• 29:24
  Can I be a part of this?
• 29:26
  And and being able to turn that around, great point that we were at a PGA Tour of America's
• 29:30
  event up in Brainerd, Minnesota, just three weeks ago.
• 29:34
  I've had a really good month, Darren.
• 29:35
  So we're doing this at a great time.
• 29:37
  You from from from golf tournament to, you know, NFL football and tailgates scenes to pro
• 29:43
  rodeo, richest, you know, rodeo in history, this weekend.
• 29:49
  So, we had a couple of photographers reach out to us that are like, hey.
• 29:53
  You know, see you getting credentials for all these things.
• 29:56
  How do you do that?
• 29:57
  And instead of just, you know, telling them, oh, well, you reach out to this person and you
• 30:01
  maybe get lucky is like, well, how can I provide that opportunity for you?
• 30:05
  I'm going to this event.
• 30:07
  Are you interested in coming and joining us and taking part in your first golf event?
• 30:11
  Our first one really running a team like that.
• 30:14
  So it was a learning experience for them, but it was also a learning experience for me in the
• 30:18
  fact that I was now the executive producer to this.
• 30:22
  It wasn't me running a one man show, taking the photographs, doing interviews, and being
• 30:27
  everything to everyone.
• 30:28
  It was really stepping back and being hands off.
• 30:30
  I felt a little lazy some days just kind of sitting and, you know, kind of enjoying the
• 30:35
  experience and and being present in the moment instead of having a million things to do, but
• 30:41
  understanding that the work was getting done.
• 30:43
  So that was really a twofold.
• 30:45
  We were providing that opportunity for someone else to go out and excel.
• 30:49
  I was getting reps in a completely different situation than I had been in before, and now we
• 30:56
  get to go and say, hey.
• 30:57
  We were capable of doing that.
• 30:59
  We can do this again in really any kind of situation.
• 31:03
  Well and I think you you touched on a really important piece.
• 31:06
  And and if we put your business, under the microscope, what if the listener listening to
• 31:13
  this podcast is like, what is he talking about, and what's the technical term?
• 31:18
  Owner dependency is the term that comes up most commonly.
• 31:21
  And if we if we relate this back to your business and any other business that's looking
• 31:25
  to create value, k, And this is an enterprise value that is unique to the business itself.
• 31:33
  It's how do we how do we address the question of owner dependency?
• 31:38
  And so I'm gonna I'm gonna grill you a little bit here.
• 31:41
  If if you were to hi.
• 31:43
  I've got my lovely assistant.
• 31:44
  He gets a little worked up when mama comes home, but he's a good boy.
• 31:48
  Aren't you?
• 31:48
  Yeah.
• 31:49
  You're a great boy.
• 31:50
  But we've got this question of ownership dependency or owner.
• 31:53
  I know.
• 31:54
  Owner dependency.
• 31:55
  And I think this is this is the biggest piece for creating enterprise value.
• 32:00
  It would be like, you put your home on the market, and somebody's like, hey, man.
• 32:05
  I'm gonna make you an offer, and I really like your house.
• 32:07
  And you're like, great.
• 32:08
  Buy my house, but at no charge, I'm gonna keep living in the basement.
• 32:13
  You'd be like, woah.
• 32:14
  I I I don't wanna buy that.
• 32:16
  That that's weird and uncomfortable.
• 32:18
  And it's the same thing because if you weren't living in the basement, the house would fall
• 32:22
  apart.
• 32:22
  If you weren't living in your business, the business would fall apart.
• 32:24
  And so tell me, if you were to stop doing what you're doing, would the scene project make it a
• 32:35
  week?
• 32:37
  Yes.
• 32:38
  Well but only only because I'm scheduled out with content for about six months.
• 32:42
  But it would be at that six month mark, right Yes.
• 32:45
  That we might start to have, some issues where where things may not be operating, to the same
• 32:52
  capacity.
• 32:53
  Okay.
• 32:53
  So then my next question would be, why do you feel like it wouldn't be operating the same
• 32:58
  capacity?
• 33:00
  Well, because, yeah, I I am still the sole connector to a lot of these between the
• 33:05
  creator, the creation, the production, and the promotion of all of those things.
• 33:11
  So a lot of that is still running solely through me.
• 33:14
  Yep.
• 33:15
  And so okay.
• 33:17
  I I told you I'm I'm I'm gonna put you in the hot seat right now.
• 33:19
  K?
• 33:20
  Right now, you know all of those things.
• 33:22
  They're up here, and some of them might be on paper.
• 33:24
  But how much of what you're doing that keeps the company running after that six month mark
• 33:29
  has yet to be documented and systematized?
• 33:33
  Yeah.
• 33:33
  Pretty much all of it.
• 33:35
  Okay.
• 33:36
  Okay.
• 33:37
  So and this is this is a good dialogue because I say we go out and find a 100 business owners
• 33:44
  and we survey all of them, a good 80% are gonna be in that same bucket.
• 33:51
  And this is why 80% of businesses never sell.
• 33:54
  Because owner dependency isn't just you showing up every day.
• 33:57
  Owner dependency is the systems, the IP, the what really makes the company run and function
• 34:05
  has yet to be documented into a way where I can say, okay.
• 34:10
  These responsibilities need to go here.
• 34:12
  These responsibilities need to go here, then I can start training those.
• 34:15
  And there may be some things you never take off your plate.
• 34:18
  Like, I would say for most entrepreneurs, the last thing you wanna get rid of is sales
• 34:24
  because you're always gonna be the most passionate person.
• 34:26
  You're always gonna be the most convicted.
• 34:28
  Right.
• 34:28
  I know.
• 34:29
  You're passionate about mom and snacks.
• 34:32
  He golly, you're such a whiner.
• 34:37
  But so okay.
• 34:38
  So, the majority of your systems and processes are still yes, I know.
• 34:42
  Are still with you.
• 34:44
  And so if you got hit by the bus today, what happens?
• 34:49
  Yeah.
• 34:49
  The scene projects as a media group are finished.
• 34:52
  Yeah.
• 34:53
  And so what I would suggest, and this is where the coaching comes in, is let's start let's
• 34:59
  just start documenting all of that stuff.
• 35:01
  It doesn't have to be pretty, and it's gonna be really ugly for a while.
• 35:05
  And so what's keeping you right now?
• 35:09
  Again, said I was gonna put you on the hot seat.
• 35:10
  What's keeping you from putting all that stuff down on paper or just AI?
• 35:14
  Just record it.
• 35:17
  Yeah.
• 35:17
  Nothing really.
• 35:18
  And to some degrees, I guess, we we've done a little bit of this, even just making some short
• 35:22
  videos of how to do some of the things that I'm doing.
• 35:26
  So there is a process that's begun as I'm looking to offload things just to get them off
• 35:30
  my plate.
• 35:31
  But the secondary to that is that we're kind of building those, you know, those SOPs, if you
• 35:37
  will Yeah.
• 35:38
  Into the process of, like, hey.
• 35:40
  This is how all the things that you see happening outwardly, this is how they're be
• 35:45
  coming to fruition is through this work here.
• 35:48
  Well and I think there's an even greater question here, and this goes into the the
• 35:54
  visioneering for a company.
• 35:57
  You know, a lot of times people go, oh, we need to hire this person.
• 36:00
  Like, we need a, you know, we need a tech person or we need a a PR person or we need x y
• 36:07
  z.
• 36:07
  And it's like, tell me why.
• 36:10
  Well, because we're failing in this thing.
• 36:11
  And and okay.
• 36:12
  Well, why do you think you're failing?
• 36:14
  Well, because we're not making the money we wanna make.
• 36:16
  Okay.
• 36:16
  Well, why aren't you making so so we ask these kinda seven layers of why.
• 36:21
  I know.
• 36:22
  You're ex I'm excited.
• 36:23
  You're excited.
• 36:24
  But at the end of the day, if I don't have documented documented systems, processes,
• 36:33
  procedures, and then I coordinate those and lump them into categories, I can't determine
• 36:38
  which thing I need to hire for first and which thing is actually going to relieve me of the
• 36:44
  most stress.
• 36:45
  It's still based on feelings.
• 36:47
  It's not based on objective data.
• 36:49
  And so come here, bud.
• 36:51
  Yeah.
• 36:52
  I mean, do you wanna just say hi?
• 36:53
  Like, you're pretty cute.
• 36:55
  So you can just sit.
• 36:56
  Mhmm.
• 36:56
  So, so step number one for you, and this is this is where I would I would really want to
• 37:01
  coach you through, is number one, let's put everything on paper.
• 37:06
  Let's document everything, and there may be some people why don't you go slide down?
• 37:11
  There may be some people that you need to hire.
• 37:13
  There may be some people that you don't.
• 37:15
  And so tell me right now, like, what would you say is the biggest bottleneck for you?
• 37:22
  Time.
• 37:22
  But by far, it is just time, which I'm sure is extremely relatable for a lot of people when
• 37:30
  you're trying to wear a thousand hats a day.
• 37:32
  Sure.
• 37:32
  So tell me okay.
• 37:34
  Again, it's just quiz time.
• 37:36
  What would you say your time is worth per hour?
• 37:42
  Somewhere between 25 and $50 an hour.
• 37:48
  Your time is only worth 25 to $50 an hour?
• 37:50
  May maybe.
• 37:51
  I don't know.
• 37:52
  I I work a lot, and I don't bring a lot home.
• 37:56
  Okay.
• 37:56
  So I need you to flip your mindset, and this is what a lot of business owners really struggle
• 38:01
  with.
• 38:02
  If you were to have freed up your time and you could go out and get yourself in front of
• 38:10
  bigger vendors, you could talk to bigger talent.
• 38:16
  You could get yourself positioned.
• 38:18
  Now how much is your time worth?
• 38:21
  Right.
• 38:22
  Maybe maybe triple or more than that.
• 38:25
  K.
• 38:26
  And so as the entrepreneur, yes, in the beginning, we wear all the hats.
• 38:31
  K?
• 38:31
  So I'll I'll give you a prime example.
• 38:33
  When my wife and I owned the gym and we had very few clients, I scrubbed toilets.
• 38:37
  I cleaned floors.
• 38:38
  I wrote programming.
• 38:40
  I coached.
• 38:41
  I did consultations.
• 38:42
  I did all these things.
• 38:44
  As we brought in more clients, k, the first things that I was like, okay.
• 38:50
  What do I need to get off my plate?
• 38:51
  Because if I go sell, I can sell somebody a $600 package or a thousand dollar package or a
• 38:56
  $1,500 package, and that's an hour of my time.
• 39:00
  I could I could spend that time cleaning the gym, or I could hire somebody for 25 to $50 an
• 39:05
  hour.
• 39:06
  And so that, I think, is is the the switch that needs to flip in our mind.
• 39:12
  There's a great great business mind out there.
• 39:15
  His name is Dan Martell.
• 39:16
  He's got a book called Buy Back Your Time.
• 39:18
  And it's and it's great in theory, but at some point in time, you gotta go, okay.
• 39:21
  What is my time worth, and and what do I need to shop out or hire in to really release that
• 39:30
  for him?
• 39:31
  And and the same thing for you is, first, we gotta document all the things that make your
• 39:36
  business run, make it run exceptionally well, why you're so successful.
• 39:40
  Number two is what are the things that I can bring in or the bottlenecks that I can reduce
• 39:48
  so that I get myself into the position of I'm the one going out and acquiring new business,
• 39:53
  bigger talent, bigger scenes, these things, and that jumps your time value through the roof.
• 40:01
  And so that's really the the focus for you right now at this juncture as you're building
• 40:05
  this thing, this asset, it's not just getting rid of responsibility.
• 40:11
  It's getting rid of the responsibility that's the lowest time value on your part.
• 40:14
  And that's where a lot of business owners really struggle because they're like, I can do
• 40:17
  this well, and I can do this faster, and nobody else can do it like me.
• 40:21
  And it's like, trust me, man.
• 40:23
  Nobody needs to do it like you.
• 40:25
  If it's 80% proficient, your clients are still gonna love it.
• 40:29
  Right.
• 40:30
  And I think that's something that I I've accepted into what we're doing and finding
• 40:35
  those kind of, you know, the the lowest common denominator in these.
• 40:39
  Hey.
• 40:40
  What are these things?
• 40:40
  You know, the social media stuff was the easiest to kinda offload.
• 40:44
  Who can copy and paste this stuff that's already created and and upload these things and
• 40:49
  and to bring them in?
• 40:50
  And we're very fortunate to have, you know, in this day and age, you know, the virtual
• 40:55
  assistant market being extremely competitive.
• 40:58
  There's a lot of people that can do that for, you know, $15 an hour that that we can offload
• 41:03
  some of that so that I can free myself up to be in that sales role.
• 41:07
  For the point that you made earlier is that no one's gonna be more passionate about what we're
• 41:11
  doing.
• 41:12
  I've talked a lot about wanting to have, you know, some some salespeople in here and
• 41:17
  offloading that, but that's just not where the value is going to be.
• 41:21
  No one's gonna be able to sell what and who we are, you know, with still a small following,
• 41:27
  but our value is so much higher than just a a simple following cut, you know, on a social
• 41:32
  media site is.
• 41:33
  And those eyeballs that are paying attention to us are much more valuable than even if we had,
• 41:39
  you know, 10,000 people that were cursorily paying attention, maybe once a month.
• 41:44
  Yeah.
• 41:45
  But I think you're right, and I think you're on the right track.
• 41:49
  You there was a a very important piece that I picked up on.
• 41:53
  You're going you went to the Vikings game, and then you're going to the rodeo, and then you're
• 41:58
  going to some of these bigger events.
• 42:00
  And and and the thing for me that stuck out the most is I didn't have to do it all, and it kept
• 42:08
  going.
• 42:10
  And we've gotta build on that because the business owner oftentimes gets sucked back in.
• 42:15
  K?
• 42:17
  Craig wrote a great article not too long ago.
• 42:19
  It's called the rubber ceiling.
• 42:20
  And we should push it out for the viewers because I think they'll they'll get a lot of
• 42:25
  value out of it because it's this it's this idea that I'm trying to crack through this
• 42:29
  ceiling.
• 42:29
  I'm trying to go.
• 42:30
  I'm trying to get up there.
• 42:30
  I'm trying to get out of the day to day.
• 42:32
  I'm trying to get out of the trench, but there are always these things pulling me back.
• 42:36
  And, well, this person didn't show up.
• 42:37
  And and, oh, this contractor or this client is unhappy, and I've gotta be the one to solve the
• 42:44
  problem, to soothe, to pacify the situation.
• 42:49
  And and and I think we've gotta go through some of those things.
• 42:52
  And and you have kids.
• 42:53
  How old are your kids?
• 42:55
  Oldest is now 14, 11, and nine.
• 43:01
  My daughter will be 10 in less than a month.
• 43:03
  So
• 43:04
  My my kids are 10 and eight.
• 43:05
  And so we've been we've both been removed from the the crying baby at night that needs
• 43:11
  pacification and soothing.
• 43:13
  There are some times when you have to go through that and go, that was okay.
• 43:18
  I didn't have to run over there and, like, helicopter parent.
• 43:21
  I think a lot of entrepreneurs, helicopter entrepreneurship, When your staff, the people
• 43:26
  you hired, would you say that did you feel a little nervous during those situations, but you
• 43:32
  still made it out the other end successfully?
• 43:33
  Yeah.
• 43:35
  A 100%.
• 43:36
  Definitely, early on, I think it's impossible not to feel that way that, like, if I don't do
• 43:41
  this, it's going to fall on its face, just like, those kids wakeboarding.
• 43:47
  Mhmm.
• 43:47
  But we we have to allow those people, I I think, to, to learn and to grow in their own
• 43:53
  respect, or they're never going to become the best version themselves in this company and
• 43:59
  outside of it.
• 44:00
  And so the only way that we create that
• 44:04
  lowered concentration of risk on the ownership itself is by actually allowing for there to be
• 44:14
  maybe it's a little less quality.
• 44:17
  And I'm not saying it should be bad quality.
• 44:20
  But if your vision for this thing is it has to be a 110%, nobody can do it but me, and you
• 44:26
  don't allow for 80 to 90% call it that somebody else can do and do really well or maybe even
• 44:32
  beat you at it.
• 44:33
  I mean, there are there are athletes that I coached in our gym, and I was so excited to
• 44:39
  see.
• 44:40
  I'm like they're like, are are you like, but you're the gym owner, and and and you're you're
• 44:44
  competitive.
• 44:45
  So so is it upsetting for you to see other people get better than you?
• 44:48
  I'm like, heck no.
• 44:50
  It means that I'm doing my job.
• 44:51
  It means that our gym is great.
• 44:53
  Like, I want every I I want all the elite athletes to be better than me at some point in
• 44:57
  time.
• 44:57
  They should be.
• 44:58
  I want my kids to be better than me at some point in time.
• 44:59
  I don't wanna be beaten up on my son when he's, like, 18, 19 years old.
• 45:02
  I want him to put me because I know that he he he's gone through those trials and
• 45:06
  tribulations.
• 45:07
  He's gone through the the maturation process.
• 45:09
  And for the owner that's out there that's struggling with this, you gotta take a step
• 45:13
  back and go, okay.
• 45:15
  Is is it the me show?
• 45:18
  K?
• 45:18
  Is it the, you know, starts what did you say?
• 45:21
  It starts and ends?
• 45:22
  Yep.
• 45:23
  Yep.
• 45:23
  Is it ends?
• 45:24
  You know, where does this thing end?
• 45:26
  Or or or does this thing morph into something new and great that I can still be a part of
• 45:31
  that's that's really, really important.
• 45:33
  So the owner dependency thing is a killer for people.
• 45:36
  The other question for you is, you know, you can all you can make money through all kinds of
• 45:41
  of different ways, content, production, sponsorships, marketing services.
• 45:46
  There's a lot of different ways to create revenue.
• 45:51
  But but revenue versus value, two different things.
• 45:56
  And so how do you look at revenue versus value?
• 46:03
  Yeah.
• 46:03
  That's that's an interesting, proposition because I actually think that we're a lot more
• 46:08
  valuable than we are, you know, making revenue at this juncture in time.
• 46:15
  Because I I feel like especially in the media world, there's you have to pay it forward so
• 46:21
  much.
• 46:22
  And it's probably true in a lot of other businesses.
• 46:24
  You have to build that value for a lot longer in some cases before it really starts to
• 46:31
  become, you know, something that's profitable.
• 46:34
  Right?
• 46:35
  And we're very fortunate that it doesn't necessarily cost a lot to do what we're doing.
• 46:39
  A lot of what we're talking about is just my time.
• 46:42
  And and me putting a very kinda low number on what the value of my time is right now is due
• 46:48
  to that, that we are in this value building stage, and it takes time to build the
• 46:54
  authority, I I guess, for lack of a better term, to to prove to people that we are
• 46:59
  valuable.
• 46:59
  So there's been a lot of, you know, going out and doing some of these events at no cost to
• 47:05
  someone without any sponsor support really behind us just to go out and prove that, hey.
• 47:10
  We we do this, and we do it pretty well.
• 47:14
  Now when we circle back to that, the revenue starts to being in there.
• 47:18
  So I think we've done a really good job about building that value and while we're building
• 47:23
  experience at the same time and now being able to, you know, focus on the revenue in this next
• 47:30
  kind of turning a page to this next phase of our company.
• 47:34
  Yeah.
• 47:35
  Well and I think you're you're wise in that in that the separation between revenue and value
• 47:40
  has to be there.
• 47:41
  And we would never tell an a company to not keep building revenue at the point where and
• 47:47
  there's a lot of people that get to, like, the three they're, like, three years out from
• 47:49
  selling.
• 47:51
  And they just start to they it's like, they've they've arrived.
• 47:55
  It's like, no.
• 47:55
  You have to keep charging through probably a year after your business sells to ensure that
• 48:00
  the revenue keeps growing.
• 48:03
  The value is different.
• 48:04
  The value is tied to not just what is coming in, but what are all the other assets, what are
• 48:10
  all the intangibles that are of value to somebody?
• 48:13
  Is it is it the clients that you have?
• 48:17
  You know, what happens if you sell this thing and then boom, everybody scurries off?
• 48:21
  They're just, like, scatter.
• 48:23
  What happens if, you know, your biggest client or biggest clients or maybe you're
• 48:27
  concentrating to one client, And they're like, well, we really like working with you, Bubba,
• 48:31
  and we're not you know, we don't know this other person, so we're gonna find somebody new.
• 48:36
  So there's not just revenues coming in the door.
• 48:38
  There's also value built into the thing being built.
• 48:42
  And if we don't remove the ownership from that to the extent necessary, everything's tied to
• 48:49
  you being there.
• 48:50
  And that's the biggest mistake I made in my gym is it was it was the Darren and Katie show.
• 48:55
  That's my wife's name.
• 48:56
  Her name is Catherine Dakota.
• 48:57
  She goes by Katie.
• 48:58
  But, really, that's what it was.
• 48:59
  Hey, buddy.
• 49:01
  And then when we when we had talks about changing ownership, people got really nervous
• 49:07
  because they're like, well, we come for you.
• 49:10
  And that was that was really unsettling for me.
• 49:13
  I was like, I did this wrong.
• 49:17
  I built something that was based on me and only me.
• 49:21
  And even when we started bringing in new coaches, I think that was the kicker for us is,
• 49:25
  like, as entrepreneurs in our entrepreneurship journey is how do I take a back seat?
• 49:30
  And it's Enterprise Sage.
• 49:32
  It's not Darren.
• 49:33
  It's not Craig.
• 49:34
  It's not Courtney.
• 49:34
  It's not Tony.
• 49:35
  It's not anybody else that we bring in.
• 49:36
  Enterprise Sage is the thing.
• 49:40
  The scenes project is the thing, and people create brand awareness.
• 49:45
  They they they they value the thing, not the human running the thing.
• 49:50
  Because if the human's not running the thing, then the thing has no value.
• 49:54
  And so, you know, we would never tell tell you to stop growing your revenues, obviously.
• 49:59
  Keep keep growing.
• 50:00
  You know?
• 50:00
  Keep hustling.
• 50:01
  Keep grinding.
• 50:02
  But there has to be a value proposition that's tied to the thing that's not you.
• 50:06
  And so how much of this, or for you and your mindset and for the viewer out there, the
• 50:12
  question is is is the attractiveness of the company based on you, or is the attractiveness
• 50:18
  of the company based on what the company can do?
• 50:22
  Well and I think we're right in the middle of that switch.
• 50:26
  Right?
• 50:26
  We're definitely early on with with this first iteration and being in the music space.
• 50:32
  It it was very uniquely tied to me and those connections and the the relationships that I
• 50:38
  had built in that world because it it came with me.
• 50:41
  I had already had all those connections in that prior, you know, kinda life.
• 50:45
  And as a musician, I brought those with me.
• 50:48
  And where I really turned this on its head was especially with the creation of the sports
• 50:53
  network that flipped to that a little bit.
• 50:55
  Now I was having to reach out to new people and to build that, and it allowed me to kinda put
• 51:00
  the network up there as a as a piece of it.
• 51:03
  And not calling myself necessarily the the owner or founder of it, but putting myself in
• 51:09
  the position of executive producer as someone who is a little bit replaceable inside of that.
• 51:16
  And I think a lot of people would understand that I am, at this moment, the the driver of
• 51:22
  that.
• 51:22
  But as soon as we're in a position where we can put someone else into this role, whether it's
• 51:27
  by training or it's hiring from the outside, should we ever get big enough to be able to do
• 51:31
  that, there are other people that can do some of these jobs and and probably have more
• 51:36
  experience and knowledge to bring to the position than I do, and I am able to take a a
• 51:43
  step away even further from that role.
• 51:46
  Yeah.
• 51:47
  Well, I think that's that's the cool transition for a lot of owners is is they have to go, man,
• 51:51
  these people are way better.
• 51:53
  They're way faster.
• 51:54
  They're way more gift in this arena than I am.
• 51:57
  I don't have to be I don't have to wear all these hats.
• 52:00
  There's this weird I think for a lot of people new to business, like, there's a mandate to
• 52:06
  wearing the hats or there's a pride.
• 52:08
  There's a there's a I can do this.
• 52:11
  You know, I'm pulling myself up by my bootstraps.
• 52:13
  I'm gonna wear all these hats, and that's that's the thing.
• 52:14
  And it's like, no, man.
• 52:15
  You're you shouldn't wanna wear all the hats.
• 52:19
  You should wanna wear the hat that's worth the most money and that you're the most gifted at
• 52:24
  and get rid of all the other hats.
• 52:26
  Yeah.
• 52:27
  At some point, you're just like like an idiot with 12 hats stacked on top
• 52:30
  of one another.
• 52:32
  And You you look serious.
• 52:34
  Seriously silly.
• 52:35
  Hard question for you.
• 52:37
  K?
• 52:38
  If somebody were to come so so we've we've kinda we've defined that we need to get out of
• 52:42
  the concentration of the ownership.
• 52:44
  We start you know, we've gotta start to put systems down in place.
• 52:48
  We've gotta understand, you know, what are the functions, the features of this thing.
• 52:52
  That way, we can hire in the right people.
• 52:54
  So we've documented.
• 52:55
  So first off, I I kinda like to recap.
• 52:58
  I gotta look at my business as an asset that I'm gonna grow.
• 53:01
  K?
• 53:02
  Step number one.
• 53:02
  It's not a job anymore.
• 53:03
  This thing is an asset that's got its own life.
• 53:05
  It's got its own health and well-being, and it's not me.
• 53:08
  Number two is what are all the things that I'm still doing that haven't been put down on paper
• 53:13
  that I can systematize, that I can build a role around or a role around it, and and start
• 53:19
  bringing in the people that can do those things?
• 53:21
  That helps me resolve that issue of, you know, ownership concentration.
• 53:26
  I'm the only one doing it.
• 53:28
  But the sec the the question then becomes, okay.
• 53:31
  And it's kind of uncomfortable.
• 53:33
  If somebody offered to buy the company, what are they exactly buying?
• 53:41
  Yeah.
• 53:41
  Another great question, Darren.
• 53:43
  What they are buying is a, yeah.
• 53:48
  I I guess I I don't have a really great answer for that.
• 53:51
  Right?
• 53:52
  You know, because the connections are innately tied to me and not necessarily the company
• 53:57
  because of the documentation.
• 53:59
  I think it's a little more fleshed out in some of the properties real big, real biz rather
• 54:04
  focus you know, kind of exist as a promotional platform for businesses.
• 54:11
  That one's a little more well defined.
• 54:13
  The sports network, you can find sports coverage anywhere, but the unique relationships
• 54:18
  that we're building inside of that have some value.
• 54:22
  Also, being a a property that draws a lot of eyeballs to it because of the sports and the
• 54:28
  teams that we are covering, which has that value on the outside.
• 54:31
  But what is it as a whole is still a bit of a mystery to me as, the spaghetti starts to fall
• 54:38
  off
• 54:38
  the
• 54:38
  wall of the last two and a half years of chucking it over there.
• 54:42
  And and I didn't expect for you to answer that question today, and I honestly don't expect
• 54:45
  owners to answer that when we have our first conversation.
• 54:48
  But that question starts to create curiosity.
• 54:53
  And that question helps us to refine and understand what am I working on and toward and
• 54:59
  what is the outcome I'm seeking.
• 55:01
  You know, they are they buying my audience?
• 55:03
  Are they buying my contracts, my brand, my systems, my relationships?
• 55:07
  What actually has value?
• 55:09
  I read a story recently.
• 55:12
  It was on on LinkedIn, and and it was about a company that did at home urine this is so
• 55:19
  weird.
• 55:19
  Urine testing kits for cats.
• 55:23
  I know.
• 55:23
  Super weird.
• 55:24
  But I was like, oh, that's an interesting article title.
• 55:26
  And I was like, so I perused the article.
• 55:28
  And they and and because they were acquired by a pharmaceutical company for, like, over a
• 55:34
  $100,000,000.
• 55:35
  And I was like, holy smokes.
• 55:39
  Like, why?
• 55:40
  Like, at home testing kits for cats?
• 55:42
  They didn't care about the testing kits.
• 55:45
  They cared about the data that this company had created over the last decade.
• 55:51
  And I was like, holy smokes.
• 55:53
  That's really smart.
• 55:54
  So they bought this company.
• 55:55
  I don't even think they do I don't know if they do kits anymore or not.
• 55:58
  I don't think they really cared.
• 56:00
  They bought the data so that they could create a pharmaceutical to cure the reason why cats
• 56:06
  were having UTIs or something crazy like that.
• 56:08
  But it was a multi you know, these people made it big, and they didn't even think about it.
• 56:13
  So analyzing, like, what is my audio like, what is somebody actually buying?
• 56:16
  Because they might not be buying the thing that you think you're selling.
• 56:21
  And so, you know, they might be just they might just wanna buy you for your connections.
• 56:27
  So sometimes they might wanna buy you just to get you out of the way.
• 56:31
  I it's true.
• 56:32
  And so and so I think there's a there's a deeper question here.
• 56:34
  It's like, you know, okay.
• 56:36
  If somebody came to buy me today, what are they buying?
• 56:38
  What is it?
• 56:39
  And how do I and how do I leverage that?
• 56:43
  Because I guarantee you, this company that was selling these testing kits, if they would've if
• 56:48
  they would've taken a step back and said, hey.
• 56:49
  You know what?
• 56:50
  We've got thousands and thousands and thousands of data points.
• 56:56
  If they presented that to multiple pharmaceutical companies, they probably
• 56:59
  would've had a bidding war.
• 57:00
  They might have gotten more for it.
• 57:01
  And so I think it's an it's an understanding of what am I actually generating here, what am I
• 57:07
  selling.
• 57:08
  And so I think that's an important piece for the ownership to understand too is what are you
• 57:12
  actually creating and why?
• 57:17
  One of the last questions know we're we're coming up on time.
• 57:18
  We got about three minutes left today.
• 57:21
  Yeah.
• 57:21
  You take as much time as you need, Darren, but go ahead and and fire away.
• 57:26
  Yeah, dude.
• 57:27
  So, let's say I I came to you today, and I wanna double your company in the next year.
• 57:35
  Would you automatically just say yes
• 57:40
  or triple it?
• 57:42
  Think that I think that double is probably a low estimate.
• 57:45
  I I think on our own, we're going to do more than that.
• 57:48
  So I don't know that I would say yes right away.
• 57:51
  I think we're uniquely poised, at this moment in our in our company, to to triple or or
• 57:58
  quadruple over the next twelve months.
• 58:01
  So double double is not enough.
• 58:03
  Can we do better?
• 58:05
  Can we do better?
• 58:06
  And and that might be the right question for you.
• 58:08
  A lot of times people come to us, they're like, I want this.
• 58:10
  I want that.
• 58:11
  I want this.
• 58:11
  And it's like, the best first question is to go is to say, not can I, but should I?
• 58:24
  Had a great business connection.
• 58:28
  He did some coaching for us for a little while.
• 58:30
  He had a a very successful supplementation company, and he he cautioned us, you know, as
• 58:39
  as fledgling entrepreneurs and business owners.
• 58:42
  He's like, I caution you on taking on too much growth too soon.
• 58:49
  And he said, think of it in terms of plumbing.
• 58:53
  K?
• 58:53
  You got one pipe.
• 58:54
  You got good flow.
• 58:55
  It's coming through, but you want more water.
• 59:00
  Do you actually have the capacity, the pipes, to take on more water?
• 59:04
  Or if we only have one pipe or two or three and we need 10 and I give you a value of 10 pipes
• 59:14
  into year one, what's gonna happen?
• 59:18
  It's gonna burst.
• 59:19
  It's gonna burst, baby.
• 59:20
  And so I think the real question is before we say, do I need to or want to or aspire for
• 59:27
  growth?
• 59:27
  Do I have the capacity for growth?
• 59:30
  Is more growth at this juncture actually going to be harmful in the long run?
• 59:37
  And I would say that goes back to, do I have the systems, the practices, the procedures, the
• 59:41
  SOPs drilled down enough that I can take on reasonable manageable growth?
• 59:48
  I'm not telling you that and I would never tell this to a business owner.
• 59:50
  You gotta get everything figured out and mapped out.
• 59:52
  You gotta repack your chute 10 times before you jump out of the plane because you'll never
• 59:55
  jump.
• 59:56
  You know?
• 59:57
  You're you're stuck in that paralysis by analysis.
• 59:59
  But I think there's also a an eloquence to the coaching of somebody toward manageable growth
• 1:00:08
  with the systems that are set in place now.
• 1:00:11
  Because the last thing we want is for somebody to get so much growth that then it's like, oh,
• 1:00:15
  these people couldn't actually do what they they said they could do.
• 1:00:19
  Oh, the product actually wasn't as well thought out and well developed as we thought.
• 1:00:26
  And so it actually creates a negative buyer experience, a negative client experience.
• 1:00:32
  And so doubling your growth at this juncture might be the right fit for you if you've got
• 1:00:38
  enough of the systems and procedures in place to take on that kind of growth.
• 1:00:43
  But what if we 10 x your growth?
• 1:00:49
  Yeah.
• 1:00:49
  We we we would break stuff.
• 1:00:51
  Yeah.
• 1:00:53
  Well, these are these are wise questions.
• 1:00:56
  I think there's a re there's manageable growth.
• 1:00:59
  K?
• 1:00:59
  So how do we know when growth is creating value versus creating complexity?
• 1:01:03
  How do we know that?
• 1:01:04
  How do you know that?
• 1:01:07
  I have no idea.
• 1:01:08
  K?
• 1:01:09
  I think, like you said, I think you do.
• 1:01:12
  10 x would break things.
• 1:01:14
  Two x would be great.
• 1:01:16
  So there's a gut response.
• 1:01:17
  And you know this because you're in the ownership and you know like, immediately, when
• 1:01:22
  I said 10 x growth, you're like, oh, shoot.
• 1:01:24
  That would be this many people, this many podcasts, this much editing.
• 1:01:28
  And you just there's probably just, like, the matrix.
• 1:01:31
  It's just, like, flowing through your brain.
• 1:01:32
  Like, no way can we do that.
• 1:01:34
  And the reason why that happens is because you know all that it takes to do one or two, and
• 1:01:39
  you're comfortable there.
• 1:01:41
  To do 10 of those all at the same time, there's an immediate sinking feeling, like, in the gut.
• 1:01:48
  It's like, no.
• 1:01:50
  I couldn't.
• 1:01:52
  And so this is where, okay, we bring up the growth, but we have to start documenting,
• 1:01:58
  systematizing, and bringing people to fill in those gaps.
• 1:02:00
  And then it's like, oh, yeah.
• 1:02:02
  This is great.
• 1:02:03
  We're operating at you know, we're stabilized again.
• 1:02:06
  Yeah.
• 1:02:06
  Let's bring on five.
• 1:02:08
  Let's bring on to ten.
• 1:02:09
  And and it's this kind of, like, leveling up experience.
• 1:02:13
  Like, if I just were to drop all of it in your lap, you would be a a wreck.
• 1:02:19
  And I think that's where this manageable growth comes from.
• 1:02:22
  And so what, for you and your industry, what numbers do you watch for?
• 1:02:29
  Like, what's a goal for you for revenue, for company value?
• 1:02:34
  Like, what what are you positioning that on at this juncture?
• 1:02:38
  Yeah.
• 1:02:39
  I don't know that I've actually put a lot of of thought into it.
• 1:02:43
  We we've been so inside inside of just kind of learning and figuring out who and and what we
• 1:02:48
  are.
• 1:02:50
  I've always kinda said that for me, to have this match what I left.
• 1:02:56
  Right?
• 1:02:56
  Leaving the factory and the skilled labor position that I was in, can what we're doing
• 1:03:01
  match that income?
• 1:03:03
  And it's probably, you know, that plus some.
• 1:03:05
  So it's probably between 75 and a $100,000 a year, right, to match so that I'm able to, you
• 1:03:11
  know, pay myself eventually to to the equal and not that I need all of that because a lot of
• 1:03:19
  the things that I was spending money on, I now kind of get into free, you know.
• 1:03:24
  But can it match what I had left behind?
• 1:03:27
  And that would be, like, that first indicator that the business itself is extremely healthy
• 1:03:32
  and is doing what it should be doing.
• 1:03:36
  And and that would, that would be that kind of first indicator of, okay.
• 1:03:40
  The business is healthy and performing at at a at a level to which I would be happy with.
• 1:03:47
  Yeah.
• 1:03:47
  It it's a replacement for what was lost, or it's a supplement to what used to be, or it's
• 1:03:53
  now taking over.
• 1:03:54
  I think that's a really good metric for a lot of new early on entrepreneurs.
• 1:03:59
  As you grow and as the business grows, then what we have to look at is what is healthy
• 1:04:05
  sustainable growth like a real estate portfolio or an investment portfolio like a four zero one
• 1:04:10
  k.
• 1:04:12
  And this, I think, is where we go from job to asset.
• 1:04:15
  And this is a big, big conversation for a lot of people because, most business owners don't
• 1:04:21
  do a whole lot of retirement.
• 1:04:22
  K?
• 1:04:23
  They struggle in that area.
• 1:04:24
  They're they're gonna put all their work into their business.
• 1:04:26
  Gonna exit someday.
• 1:04:27
  Somebody's gonna buy it.
• 1:04:28
  And and that's just not a wise thing to hedge your bets on, statistically speaking.
• 1:04:34
  I'm not saying that your business or whoever's listening to this, you have a great thing that
• 1:04:36
  somebody wants to buy someday.
• 1:04:38
  But statistically speaking, you're looking at, I'm hedging my bets on I'm gonna be one of the
• 1:04:43
  20%.
• 1:04:44
  And that's gonna happen by just brute force or grit or hopes and prayers, and that's not gonna
• 1:04:50
  happen.
• 1:04:50
  It it happens on data and systems and and actually systematizing.
• 1:04:55
  And even then, industries change all the time.
• 1:05:00
  I can't say that in five to ten years, the industry that you're in won't change and and
• 1:05:04
  your thing won't be done by somebody else.
• 1:05:07
  I don't know that.
• 1:05:08
  I'm not I wish I did.
• 1:05:09
  Man, I'd make a lot of money if I had that kind of if I had that ability.
• 1:05:15
  And, but, but at the end of the day, I think you're right.
• 1:05:18
  You know?
• 1:05:18
  You go, okay.
• 1:05:19
  I'm replacing this.
• 1:05:20
  At some point in time, you gotta go, okay.
• 1:05:22
  This needs to give me a return year after year, not just a job.
• 1:05:26
  Because if if you had a, and I don't know your retirement, but if you have a four zero one k
• 1:05:29
  and you go to your wealth adviser, and over the course of time, they're not growing that by a
• 1:05:35
  reasonable amount, what do you do?
• 1:05:38
  Take your money somewhere else.
• 1:05:40
  Take your money somewhere else.
• 1:05:41
  That's pretty simple.
• 1:05:42
  Most people are gonna be like, hey, man.
• 1:05:44
  Like, things are looking bleak, and we're not growing.
• 1:05:47
  And I I I'd like to see some some growth.
• 1:05:50
  Now I wouldn't say change every year, but if you're working with an adviser and they're it's
• 1:05:55
  stagnated or losing over the course of ten years, you probably need to go find somebody
• 1:05:59
  new.
• 1:06:00
  Same with the business, and and we gotta look at it in the in that lens.
• 1:06:05
  And so if if if you were to come to me today, Bubba, and say, Darren, help me with my
• 1:06:13
  business.
• 1:06:14
  The first thing I would do is I would just have a conversation with you and assess.
• 1:06:18
  Where where do we stand today, and what's the goal?
• 1:06:21
  Well, Darren and and and what you've already described, you're like, I I don't want this
• 1:06:25
  thing to hedge on me.
• 1:06:26
  I want this thing to keep on living.
• 1:06:28
  If I get hit by the bus or I decide to sell or somebody brings me a bag of cash, I want this
• 1:06:32
  thing to have legs.
• 1:06:33
  Awesome.
• 1:06:34
  So then we go, okay.
• 1:06:35
  Well, what is the health of this asset?
• 1:06:39
  And that has nothing to do with you.
• 1:06:41
  That has everything to do with specific bio I like biomarkers that come to the wellness
• 1:06:46
  world.
• 1:06:46
  I think a lot of people hear that nowadays.
• 1:06:47
  You know, they listen to podcasts, they're going to naturopaths, and they're, you know,
• 1:06:51
  they're biohacking, all the things.
• 1:06:54
  But but what is the health assessment?
• 1:06:56
  Like, what are the good things that we're doing?
• 1:06:57
  What are the things that are cause for concern?
• 1:06:59
  And what are the things if we don't address today, we're gonna bleed out on the table?
• 1:07:03
  And so that's step number one for anybody that we talk to.
• 1:07:06
  And I think for any business owner, don't do a business valuation with the perspective of
• 1:07:10
  exiting.
• 1:07:11
  Do a business valuation to get a a like, just like if you were to go get blood work done.
• 1:07:17
  Like, where where do I stand today?
• 1:07:18
  Like, what are the things that are concerning?
• 1:07:20
  Is my cholesterol through the roof?
• 1:07:22
  Am I not getting any sunlight?
• 1:07:23
  I need vitamin d.
• 1:07:24
  You know?
• 1:07:25
  I you know, we're later in life.
• 1:07:27
  Shoot.
• 1:07:27
  For most men, it's like, do you have any testosterone in your body?
• 1:07:30
  Like, these are the things you gotta address because at some point in time, they may not be
• 1:07:33
  hurting you now, but they're gonna be a problem somewhere down the road.
• 1:07:38
  So let's just make an assessment.
• 1:07:39
  And then we can go, okay.
• 1:07:40
  Well, what what is your vision for optimal?
• 1:07:43
  Like, what gets you excited?
• 1:07:45
  K?
• 1:07:46
  And why does that distance or that that void that exist?
• 1:07:51
  K?
• 1:07:52
  I'm here.
• 1:07:53
  I wanna be here.
• 1:07:54
  What's the difference, and why does it exist?
• 1:07:56
  And that's really what we do at Enterprise Sage is we have that conversation with people, and
• 1:08:00
  then we go, okay.
• 1:08:00
  Well, let's bring these people in.
• 1:08:02
  So Bubba would say, hey.
• 1:08:04
  Here are the things you're doing great, man.
• 1:08:06
  Keep doing those.
• 1:08:07
  And and chances are hire somebody to do it for you.
• 1:08:09
  Let's look over here at the red and address these, and here are some people that we can
• 1:08:13
  bring in to your team that can really make a difference in a very reasonable amount of time,
• 1:08:18
  six, twelve, eighteen months.
• 1:08:20
  And then we take that off your plate.
• 1:08:22
  It's not adding more to you.
• 1:08:23
  It's taking more off.
• 1:08:24
  And at some point in time, that void will diminish.
• 1:08:31
  And at some point in time, now I got some new problems.
• 1:08:33
  I'm making more profit.
• 1:08:35
  I'm paying more taxes.
• 1:08:37
  I wanna extract value.
• 1:08:38
  K?
• 1:08:39
  So I don't just wanna create value.
• 1:08:41
  I wanna extract it, and then I can diversify that.
• 1:08:44
  And maybe that's philanthropy.
• 1:08:46
  That might be opening another business.
• 1:08:48
  That might be investing money into the business and creating an offshoot.
• 1:08:52
  That might be retirement.
• 1:08:53
  That might be legacy.
• 1:08:55
  But the word that we like to use is stewardship.
• 1:08:58
  K?
• 1:08:59
  How do I steward that better?
• 1:09:00
  K?
• 1:09:01
  And then at some point in time, we wanna exit because everything ends.
• 1:09:04
  K?
• 1:09:04
  Maybe that's to the kids.
• 1:09:05
  Maybe that's to, ESOP.
• 1:09:07
  Maybe that's to, private equity.
• 1:09:09
  Maybe that's to some other media group that's like, man, you've created something really
• 1:09:12
  good.
• 1:09:12
  You got really great connections.
• 1:09:13
  We're gonna buy these connections because we wanna get into these markets.
• 1:09:17
  And so how do we have a a a good conversation around exiting?
• 1:09:21
  Because the last thing we want is for you to say, I don't know.
• 1:09:25
  Somebody brought me some money today.
• 1:09:26
  They offered me a buyout, and I don't know if it's yes, no, or wait.
• 1:09:32
  And then last is legacy.
• 1:09:34
  Like, what does it look like when I write that chapter?
• 1:09:37
  And so those are the five things we really work on.
• 1:09:39
  And so for you, the first thing I'll do is just let's just have a conversation, man.
• 1:09:42
  Let's talk.
• 1:09:43
  Let's make an assessment of this thing, see where the red is.
• 1:09:46
  Let's get you out of the ICU.
• 1:09:49
  You just stabilized, shifted into neutral, and now we're in the first, second, third, fourth,
• 1:09:53
  fifth, sixth.
• 1:09:55
  So what questions does that bring up for you, man?
• 1:09:58
  As we
• 1:09:59
  plan to do that.
• 1:10:01
  Yeah.
• 1:10:01
  Namely, it's, when can we have that conversation?
• 1:10:04
  Although, I I think we covered most of it here in the last hour plus.
• 1:10:09
  Yes.
• 1:10:09
  I think the the questions it brings up to for me is looking at it from the lens of a listener
• 1:10:16
  that that may be tuning into this episode.
• 1:10:18
  And Yep.
• 1:10:19
  And and what is that assessment?
• 1:10:21
  What is that that process?
• 1:10:23
  Does it does it really as simple as starting with a conversation?
• 1:10:27
  Maybe with yourself first to ask some of the questions that you asked of me today.
• 1:10:31
  You know, what what do you want out of a business?
• 1:10:34
  And and what does this mean to you?
• 1:10:37
  Is it okay that it just ends with you and it's over?
• 1:10:41
  Or is leaving something that is a legacy all unto itself is that important to to you, and is
• 1:10:48
  it important to me?
• 1:10:50
  And I I think that, once you can answer those questions kind of internally, it makes the
• 1:10:55
  answers to some of the other questions and getting into the the data of it a lot easier.
• 1:11:01
  Yeah.
• 1:11:01
  And there's no wrong answer.
• 1:11:03
  People people are like, what if I say the wrong thing?
• 1:11:07
  Who who said it's wrong?
• 1:11:10
  Who said it was bad?
• 1:11:13
  You're operating with all the best information you have today.
• 1:11:16
  So you made a good choice based on the intel you had.
• 1:11:20
  Could you have made a better choice with better information and better coaching?
• 1:11:23
  Probably.
• 1:11:25
  And so you're right.
• 1:11:26
  The first the first step, Bubba, is this is for any listener out there is have a conversation.
• 1:11:31
  And that could be with me.
• 1:11:31
  That could be with Craig.
• 1:11:33
  But have a conversation about what you want out of this thing and how you wanna grow it.
• 1:11:39
  And even if you just wanna you wanna be your own person and have your own job and grow that
• 1:11:44
  thing to the point, and you're like, yeah.
• 1:11:45
  When I'm done, it's done.
• 1:11:46
  Awesome.
• 1:11:47
  We can help you.
• 1:11:49
  You can grow it.
• 1:11:50
  There's a lot of good you can do, and and it's fine.
• 1:11:55
  And so then the second piece would be, okay.
• 1:11:57
  We had a conversation.
• 1:11:58
  Well, let's let's actually put down some data into an assessment.
• 1:12:02
  Let's get some data back.
• 1:12:03
  Let's get some feedback, and and let's flush out, are the problems that I thought I had
• 1:12:08
  really the problems that I'm having?
• 1:12:11
  K?
• 1:12:11
  I can go to my doctor and say, I don't feel good.
• 1:12:15
  These are the symptoms I'm having.
• 1:12:17
  And he can go, yeah.
• 1:12:18
  I I I've seen enough of this that I have a pretty good idea of what's going on.
• 1:12:24
  But your doctor's gonna go, I need to do some further testing to either confirm my suspicion
• 1:12:28
  or to rule out anything that I don't like or to uncover something that maybe was something I
• 1:12:34
  need to do.
• 1:12:35
  So that's where the assessment piece comes in.
• 1:12:37
  It just it just helps us to understand the greater picture.
• 1:12:41
  And then we can get into, well, how do we resolve those things?
• 1:12:44
  And that gets into what's the timeline look like and how much is this gonna cost?
• 1:12:47
  And and then we can get into those things.
• 1:12:49
  But I don't even get down that road until I can say, here's what we want.
• 1:12:54
  Here's the problem.
• 1:12:55
  Here's how long it's gonna take.
• 1:12:56
  Here's how we resolve it.
• 1:12:57
  Because then you see all the value, and then you can go, okay.
• 1:13:00
  I understand the value proposition here, the timelines.
• 1:13:05
  There's clarity.
• 1:13:06
  Nobody likes to make decisions when they're they they they open the door to the room that's
• 1:13:11
  dark and they're peering and they go, I know there's nothing scary in there, but I don't
• 1:13:17
  really wanna take that first step.
• 1:13:19
  You know, we kinda default back to that, like, eight year old kid.
• 1:13:21
  He's like, you know, Kevin going down in the basement when, you know, when the furnace is
• 1:13:27
  super scary.
• 1:13:28
  It's like, shit.
• 1:13:29
  I don't wanna go down there.
• 1:13:31
  But you go down a couple times.
• 1:13:32
  You're like, ah, it's just the old furnace.
• 1:13:34
  Whatever.
• 1:13:36
  So
• 1:13:38
  Well, Darren, I appreciate you, coming on, turning the tables on me a little bit today.
• 1:13:44
  Obviously, this is exactly what you do with Enterprise Sage.
• 1:13:47
  Anybody who's looking to get involved with you guys, they can go to enterprisesage.com.
• 1:13:52
  Start the process there.
• 1:13:53
  Darren, appreciate you so much spending some time with me today, and appreciate you being
• 1:13:58
  part of the scene.
• 1:13:59
  Super fun, man.
• 1:14:00
  I really enjoyed being here today.
• 1:14:01
  Bubba, if you need anything, just let us know.
• 1:14:04
  Will do.
• 1:14:05
  Be good, Darren.
• 1:14:06
  We'll see you.