Latest / Houselights: A Film Director Podcast / Lady Bird (2017) - Greta Gerwig | Houselights #174

Transcript

Lady Bird (2017) - Greta Gerwig | Houselights #174 · Houselights: A Film Director Podcast

0:03
Welcome to the net party. Hello everybody at home, and welcome to Houselights
0:24
House of Gerwig Greta Gerwig. We are starting our three part series of director
0:30
Greta Gerwig with her directorial solo debut with Ladybird in twenty seventeen. And this
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is starring Sirsha Ronan, Laurie Metcalf, Terry Lett's, Lucas Hedges, Beanie
0:43
Feldstein and Leson al Gaib himself, Timmy shallow Man. Yes, yes,
0:48
I'll just say we're he's in the Man Who's like blowing up right now,
0:55
the MARKTI the MARKETI as it was written. He's in Ladybird. And what's
1:00
also awesome is that Thofer from Doune is also in this, Stephen McKinley Henderson
1:07
who is the drama teacher and director in Lady Bird. And also we cannot
1:11
mention Lois Smith. There's a lot of really great people in this movie.
1:15
I think that's one of the really great things about this. One of the
1:19
appealing things about this, Like even though this is Gerwig's directorial debut again solo,
1:25
because she did co direct a movie before this, but we're just starting
1:26
with her solo career. She clearly surrounded herself with amazing people, just like
1:33
I do every single week when we record house Lights, because with me,
1:38
as they always are is Doctor SciFi himself, Darren Moser, and the one
1:44
and only John Mills. How are you guys doing tonight? Well, I
1:48
have not thrown myself out of any cars lately, but I have found the
1:53
joy of small cast musicals has repossessed me and I'm pursuing that right now.
2:01
Sorry, that's in the movie, folks. Those are two things in the
2:04
movie that I'm making reference to. No doing Good. This is probably the
2:08
least sci fi movie I've watched in a while, But no, no,
2:13
it was. Yeah, it definitely had that Oh what is it? I
2:17
remember seeing like Bottle Rocket back when I was in film school, meaning like
2:23
a movie that's kind of like you can tell this one kind of hit the
2:25
circuit first before it kind of went to theaters, And this definitely had that
2:30
same vibe. And I recognized a lot of these places because I grew up
2:37
in a town about forty five minutes away from Sacramento, So I'm like,
2:40
hey, his Sacramento. Not a lot of stuff is placed in Sacramento.
2:45
But this movie definitely is. Yes, it certainly is. It's you know,
2:51
honestly that I think that it's fitting that you refer to bottle Rocket because
2:57
if this movie has a vibe very much reminded me of a sort of Wes
3:01
Anderson before he went completely completely Wes Anderson. You know, there are phases
3:08
of Wes Anderson that you go through, more rooted Wes Anderson, the one
3:13
that acknowledges that human reality exists. That's the sort of Wes Anderson ViBe's that's
3:17
coming off of this film. Yeah. Yeah, modern Wes Anderson is very
3:21
much. I don't know if stage act. If stage Acting was a cartoon,
3:27
I like the way you described that, that would be fairly accurate.
3:30
Yes, and go back through our catalog to listen House of Anderson where we
3:35
covered the films of Wes Anderson earlier in the series. So there you go.
3:38
And I think the last one that we reviewed wasn't his latest film,
3:43
but it's the last one were reviewed. Actually had a starring role with Sirsha
3:47
Roonan in it. That is true, That is absolutely correct. She was
3:52
in that film, and I yeah, I'm gonna give her a lot of
3:55
credit here because she is Irish and I know this seems like a silly thing,
4:01
but I mean she had for but for an actress to give a very
4:10
quality performance while also completely hiding any level of her accent, Like it's a
4:16
lot tougher to cover your accent than people think it is. And she sounds
4:23
like she came from the area that this character comes from, and that is
4:28
not a small feat. And it seems like such a silly thing to focus
4:31
on at the outset, but I think that that is because you mentioned the
4:35
cast earlier, Tristan. That speaks to the level of cast like it's very
4:41
important to get the right cast for your film, obviously, and the director
4:45
has to get the best performance as possible and all of that, and so
4:47
this isn't taking anything away from anybody or anything like that, but for Ronan
4:53
to completely inhabit the character to the point where I don't even think about the
4:57
fact that she's asking her accent until afterwards where I say, oh wow,
5:00
there wasn't even a single word where I could tell that she had an accent
5:03
Like that, that's impressive, And again I would use that just go into
5:08
the fact that this is an hour and a half long. It's not a
5:12
huge, expansive epic. It's got a pretty light touch, but everybody's approaching
5:16
the material in a very serious I think, in a very serious manner,
5:19
which I think also separates it a little bit from Wes Anderson, because usually
5:25
even the great performances in a Wes Anderson film are done with a little cheeky
5:29
wink at the audience, whereas this everybody plays it straight, and I think
5:32
that's what helps the material come to life. I think ernest would be a
5:38
good word. Yeah, that's a good word. You're right. For their
5:40
performances like this felt very very realistic without being pretentious. It felt it felt
5:47
very not to repeat myself, but it just felt very earnest. I feel
5:50
like, you know, like Laurie metcalf as metcalf as her mom, you
5:58
know you right off the bat. I mean, and that opening scene where
6:00
they're in the car they're listening to the Grapes of Wrath audiotape and they're both
6:06
crying and you're like, oh, man, okay, they're really connecting there.
6:10
You know, they must have a good relationship. And then at the
6:13
drop of a hat, they just start screaming at each other, yelling at
6:15
each other and you realize, Okay, yeah, this is just like every
6:19
other complicated mother daughter relationship. And then it goes so far that she throws
6:25
herself out of a moving vehicle and then boom, we cut right next to
6:30
her into the movie. It establishes exactly what their dynamic is, like you
6:34
said, Tristan, and it's unexpected because and then just the whole rest of
6:40
like the whole opening act, she's just in that pink cast and you're like,
6:43
oh man, and we've all kind of had those moments in the car
6:46
of like I really just want to get away from this person. We don't
6:49
throw ourselves from moving vehicles, but it takes it an extra an extra step.
6:57
It. I wish I hadn't seen that scene spoiled in somebody's recap of
7:01
the movie years ago or something like that where they were talking about Lady Bird.
7:05
It's one of the best films of the year, and I actually saw
7:08
the scene where she throw or I saw that moment from the scene where she
7:12
throws herself from the car. I wish I could have had I knew it
7:15
was coming. Basically, I wish I could have had that moment of true
7:17
surprise with it, because I think that would have been delightful to encounter it
7:21
and be shocked by it, as opposed to sitting are going, I know
7:25
it's coming, I know it's coming. There we go. I saw that
7:27
thing before, and I think they ruined it in the trailers too, Oh
7:30
did they? Yeah, It's just it's a shame. It's marketing people stink.
7:35
Sometimes they don't know how to how to restrain themselves. That's why I
7:41
always total tangent. But that's why I always respected Fincher's you know, they
7:46
call Fincher a control freak. And with when Gone Girl came out, he
7:51
said that he wanted complete control over the advertising, like in Final say on
7:56
all the ad spots and trailers and everything like that, and they were only
7:59
allowed to use footage from the first half of the film. Well, I
8:01
mean, but it makes perfect sense. I mean, you know, to
8:05
continue that tangent, imagine if they hadn't kept Grogu completely under wraps before the
8:11
Mandalorian came out, right, the impact that was the end of that epersise
8:15
of merchandising. Like they didn't make anything because they knew if they put it
8:20
out there to be produced, it would have been spoiled and that was probably
8:24
one of the last great non spoiled things in Star Wars. We haven't had
8:28
anything like that in a while. And I think that my reaction to the
8:33
film, to this film, to Ladybird might have been stronger had I been
8:37
permitted to have that surprise reaction at the beginning of it. If I rolled
8:41
this back and I saw the poster and I'm walking through it and I'm like,
8:45
eh, you know, sure, why not, I'll go see it
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and I go in and that took me by surprise. I think I might
8:52
have had an easier time finding access to the film on sort of like a
8:56
more emotional level, because I think knowing it was there put me on guard
9:03
in a strange way where I was like, Okay, what's your trick now?
9:05
Sort of again, it feels like I'm dragging the guy, but it's
9:09
sort of like Wes Anderson I put me. It put me in the Wes
9:11
Anderson mode where I'm like, all right, I'm waiting for the surprise here.
9:13
I'm waiting for the poll throughout the movie, So you felt like it
9:18
was going to be like quirky and wacky or something like that. Yes,
9:20
I think it put me in the wrong frame of mind to approach the film.
9:24
Yes, I do. And this was your first time watching it?
9:28
Not what I would say with this movie, No, not at all.
9:33
Yes, this was my first time watching the film. I've been meaning to
9:35
watch it for some time because it had so much positive you know, press
9:39
and everything. I think it was Time magazine called it like one of the
9:43
top ten films of twenty seventeen or something like that. So yeah, I
9:48
was. You guys know how the que works. You keep meaning to get
9:50
around to something and you just never do. So I'm glad I had an
9:54
excuse you this time. Then you start top podcasting about movies and your cue
9:58
is totally shot because you he can't even choose your own movies. It's by
10:01
committee. Oh we know, we know m and nobody will do House of
10:05
Breen and that that's just you know, what are you gonna do? Darren?
10:09
What did you know about this movie before you watched it? Oh?
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Not a lot, Like I said, you know, I kind of knew
10:18
it had that semi biographical bottle rocket ish like, like it feels like the
10:24
kind of movie that goes on a circuit Like I was not at all surprised
10:28
at this premiered first at as a circuit film before hitting theaters. But yeah,
10:35
it's that's all pretty much. I don't even remember the trailer, you
10:41
know, I know. The only thing I really remember, actually is the
10:43
whole name thing where she kept being like, no, my name's Ladybird,
10:46
Like call me lady Bird, it's my name, And that was kind of
10:50
what the trailer was about. So I didn't really know where the plots go.
10:54
This movie was also kind of strange in the fact that I thought it
10:56
was kind of done and then it kind of just kept going for an extra
11:01
ten minutes that I'm like, oh, okay, I guess we're we're not
11:05
done, and then we were done. But it was it ended very weirdly
11:07
in that regard. Uh, it just just I I never want to presume
11:11
anybody knows or doesn't know anything. But when you say circuit, you mean
11:15
it went on like the sort of like the film festival circuit before it got
11:18
a wide release. Yeah, no, the Mario Kart cir is what I
11:20
meant. But well, I never want to presume, you know, No,
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No, I mean this didn't This was a wild ride on the rail
11:26
road. It was crazy stop that. But yeah, but and this is
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it's interesting because, like you said, Tristan, you know, we're covering
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Greta Gerwig and but a very small solo directing filmography, only three so far
11:43
at time of recording, and one of those is Barbie, which is like
11:48
it's like the Road to Barbenheimer is it is only a couple of years long.
11:52
But this will Yeah, but as a as a first piece, yeah,
11:58
I didn't know very much about it, but it does have that weird
12:01
kind of write what you know, right, You're like, I don't feel
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and I think she's been interviewed saying Greta is saying this, like the things
12:09
in this movie didn't exactly happened to me, but they are the tone and
12:15
the flavor of like the circle that I knew. So it feels very real.
12:20
But it's not like my dad and my brother we're going for the same
12:24
job and that exactly happened like in the movie, Like obviously not, but
12:28
but it gives it a grounded realism. Like there's a lot of movies like
12:33
this or even maybe think more sitcomy, which is kind of weird. It
12:37
maybe think of like Malcolm in the Middle or like that Middle America white kind
12:43
of blue collar vibe, but in a movie sense, obviously, And as
12:48
you're coming to Bage, you know, I think that that's a good question
12:52
because you mentioned, you know, obviously we're going to get to Barbie as
12:56
we go through that, and Barbie is her third solo directed film. So
13:01
one of the ways, you know, one of the ways I've been trying
13:03
to process this since watching it is do I see something in Gerwig's direction that
13:09
indicates to me that she would be in trusted like this would be a director
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I would look at and say, I entrust you on this big budget.
13:16
Nobody knew Barbie was going to do the money that it did. Obviously,
13:20
you can never predict whether something is going to be That's still not like a
13:24
little indie Barbie movie. There's some what wait behind it? What makes Mattel
13:30
and the other producers Margot Robbie sit there and look at Greta Gerwig and say,
13:35
Yes, my big tongue in cheek pop culture smash sort of thing that
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I'm trying to do. Do you guys see that in here? Do you
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see a director who's ready for that phone call in just a few years?
13:48
And again, this is fifty percent of her filmography at this point. It's
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this and Little Women. Yeah, so we're this is half of it.
13:54
Uh, I mean not to keep talking, but I think I see someone
14:01
who knows how to tell a story about a main character, how to really
14:07
you know, present like it's a well told story. It's and I don't
14:11
know, I mean, obviously it was. It came way under budget.
14:15
It's a low budget movie. It made a lot of money versus what its
14:18
budget was. It you know, it's not a technical movie. It doesn't
14:22
have a million special effects or anything like that, as most first movies don't.
14:28
But it's solid. It's a solid story. It makes me care about
14:31
the character. It makes me believe that these are real people. And yeah,
14:37
I mean that's what a director's doing, is pulling those performances out,
14:41
especially in a semi autobatographical kind of tone. That this movie is so yeah,
14:48
I buy it. I buy it. I think that's I really want
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to revisit that question next week after we cover the second half of her to
14:56
film filmography at that point, but I'd say, so, I feel like,
15:01
if this was how do I put this? If this was before two
15:07
thousand and eight, like say that say that this was and then say that
15:11
this was a nineties Barbie movie. Okay, I'm sorry, not like say
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say that Greta Gerwig did this in the nineties, she would not have gotten
15:18
Barbie. In my opinion, I think the reason why she got Barbie is
15:24
because of Superhero films and Star Wars, the revival of Star Wars. I
15:28
think that Superhero films and Star Wars films started taking chances on lesser known directors,
15:35
people who had a vision, who could do a lot with a little
15:39
And of course at that time, I mean, we all know now that
15:43
it's that it's that it's bullshit that they they wanted somebody cheap that they thought
15:46
they could control. But they said like, yeah, we're really you know,
15:52
going to the indie space to get that unique voice. No you're not.
15:54
I mean that that was the public spin. That was br spin.
15:58
But this is not I'm not trying to degrade Gerwig whatsoever. I think she
16:03
pulled it off, and she did a great job, and she deserves her
16:04
success. I think that that's one of the reasons why she got Barbie is
16:10
because if you look at what Ladybird did and what little women did it'll It'll.
16:15
It showed her strengths in story and characterization, and she clearly has an
16:22
eye. I mean, like, if you look at the style of Ladybird,
16:26
that's one of the things that it's very present within the movie. In
16:29
my opinion, I think the way that it's shot, the color palette.
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I think she originally wanted to shoot it on Super sixteen, but that would
16:37
have been too expensive to actually shoot it on sil uloid, and so they
16:41
shot out on the Alexa Mini and they just really emphasized the digital noise to
16:47
replace the natural grain that we would have gotten from Super sixteen. And it's
16:52
that kind of attention to detail. I mean, like you have you have
16:56
Gerwig's who's in it with all those kind of details, and then you have
17:00
you know, like a Marvel director who I'm not going to name his name,
17:04
but doesn't even know what four khdr means. You know. It's just
17:08
it's things like that, And so I feel like when you hire someone like
17:14
Gerwig, she throws herself into it. She's all about it, and she
17:18
lives and breathes it, and I think that's I think that mixed with the
17:22
time that Barbie came out where people were production companies were willing to take risks
17:29
on lesser known directors. I think it was a perfect storm, and she
17:33
proved pre proved the point. No, of course, but I mean so
17:37
so to that point, Darren, you see somebody who can tell a story,
17:41
Tristan, you see somebody who has an eye for the technical side.
17:45
So regardless of special effects work, there's an eye toward how to use the
17:49
medium to get it to look the way you need it to look for the
17:53
sake of the story. Cool. I dig that because I think those are
17:57
things that get overlooked, you know, And like for me, I look
18:03
at a film like this, and I agree with both of you. I
18:07
look at this, and maybe I'd be a terrible producer because I would look
18:11
at something like this and I would say, this is somebody who's so I
18:15
wouldn't necessarily look at it and be like, well she you digital noise or
18:18
something like that, or that feels like my friends that I hung out with.
18:22
I would look at it and I would say, this is somebody who
18:23
when when she sits down, there's no hesitation behind the camera, there's no
18:30
second get I can't sniff out any second guessing I see somebody who sat down
18:33
and said, I'm going from point A to B, T C, E
18:37
to D and I will take it all the way as far as I need
18:38
to. But I know where I started, I know where I'm going to
18:41
end, and I know how I'm going to get there. And that definitely
18:44
for something that you want to have, likes a big production, You're like,
18:47
yeah, that person needs to be sitting in the chair. I need
18:49
somebody that on the day of can say got it. No, it's not
18:53
time to do that. We already figured that out, you know, or
18:56
to have the wisdom to say this isn't working on set, Let's figure out
19:00
a different way to do it. And I do see that director behind the
19:03
lens here who has that surety of vision that sits there and like the movie's
19:10
an hour and thirty four hour, thirty three minutes something like that. That
19:14
is also a director who isn't going to go crazy and say I have to
19:18
tell my story in three hours. It's somebody who sits down and says,
19:22
you're not getting an ounce of fat on the story. Now. Of course,
19:26
budget and timing all of those sorts of things go into it, but
19:30
even people on indie productions. It can get you know, oh, there's
19:33
no special effects. I can just shoot as long as I want to.
19:36
David Lynch discovers digital and suddenly his editor just sits there and falls asleep in
19:41
the booth, and he walks in and goes, that's great, just print
19:42
it. It's fine. So yeah, to add to even more to what
19:48
you're saying, her original script was three hundred and fifty pages for Lady Bess
19:52
Lady Bird. I don't know why, I said, Burke, and it
19:56
just it shows that, I mean, a lesser her creative mind would have
20:02
said, like, no, I need the Ridley Scott director's cut of Ladybird.
20:07
I could easily see how it would spiral because you know, what moments
20:14
do you keep? Obviously there's the mother daughter through line, but there's a
20:18
lot of tangential moments of her life in this movie, and it's like where
20:22
I'm wondering where those extra one hundred and something pages are. Does she go
20:27
to summer camp? Does she go to like like where? But that's all
20:32
too much and that's all fat, like it's honed down into this core story.
20:37
And like you said, Tristan about the digital grain, I had to
20:41
remember this is meant to be set in fall of two thousand and two,
20:47
and it feels like it. And I almost wouldn't know how to tell you
20:52
why it feels like it, but it kind of has that early digital you
20:59
know cameras. It's like, obviously it's shot on modern equipment, but it
21:03
feels like something from the early aughts that doesn't have like that. It's lived.
21:08
Yeah, it's just like the way the color is and the grain and
21:14
it. They didn't go so far as to pull out like a super eight
21:18
camera, you know, a high eight digital you know, MiniDV camera and
21:21
shoot it on that. I mean, that would be awesome, but that's
21:22
not the kind of vibe they're going for. But they found a good balance
21:26
of it not looking like trash because old digital in those years it's nothing compared
21:33
to now. But it yeah, it has that feel. Yeah, I
21:36
think I think you're out, Like, Darren, when did you graduate high
21:38
school in O two this year? Okay? It was like, yeah,
21:44
I graduated in four, and so I was in like both you and I
21:47
were in high school in two thousand and two, and it's it's it's crazy,
21:52
like how how how it feels like even though it's a Catholic school,
21:55
you know, like I didn't go to a Catholic school, but like it
21:56
it's the people, the way they act to the way they talked, just
22:02
all the all the nonsense. And a lot of people have cell phones like
22:07
those are I'm glad. I'm glad that brought it up. Yeah, the
22:11
smartphone revolution hadn't even happened by then. No, but even the flip phones,
22:15
like barely anybody had one. It was very barely. It was very
22:21
lived in more civilized areas had but that's okay, uh with the with the
22:26
cell phones. Like I was like as it was rolling, like as the
22:29
movie started out and like and you know, they talked about they revealed that
22:32
it was in two thousand and two and everything like that, I started thinking.
22:34
I was just like why, you know, like what does it matter.
22:37
It's just a coming of age story, you know, like how it's
22:40
two thousand and two that different from you know, twenty twenty two or something
22:44
like that. And I started realizing how stupid of a comment that is.
22:48
Yeah, yeah, a difference, Like I started shouting in my own brain.
22:52
I was like, that's an idiotic thing to say. Tristan because and
22:53
like one thing that was one of the big reasons why Gerwig wanted to have
23:00
it take place when she was in high school was because of smartphones and the
23:03
Internet and everything, not not just the Internet, but like the boom of
23:07
the internet. Everything changed over the next decade. Yeah, yeah, and
23:11
so she didn't want to make a story about, you know, kids obsessed
23:14
with their smartphones. And even though it's generalization, it's it's pretty accurate one,
23:21
but it's a yeah, it's it's it's one of those things where you're
23:23
like, yeah, I think it would have there would have been you would
23:26
have had to invite invite more technology into the story. And when in two
23:32
thousand and two you don't have to. Well, I mean, you know,
23:34
internet was a it's the social media boom, right, and social media
23:41
with but with a character like this, you said it post social media boom,
23:45
there's to your point, there's no way you escape the somebody's bullying her
23:51
on on Facebook or something like that. And that I think is a fair
23:56
amount of wisdom on Gerwig's part, because you have to acknowledge at some point
24:02
that that world isn't one that you lived in. And the film winds up
24:06
feeling less authentic because the director isn't telling a life experience that they went through.
24:11
And for something like this to feel authentic, it has to be something
24:15
that the director or author, you know, the author at least since you
24:19
wrote the screenplay. Obviously, how are you? How am I? I'm
24:23
older than the both of you. How would I possibly update my high school
24:26
experience to feel more like it was in two thousand and five or something like
24:30
that. It would be impossible because none of the experiences I had would have
24:36
been possible in the way that they were possible at the time. So Gerwig
24:40
again shows smart decision making to say this will feel more real and more lived
24:47
in and more authentic. Now. It's a period piece in that sense because
24:52
it's telling you know, it is it's you know, it's a time period
24:55
that doesn't exist anymore, and so that maybe also is something that foretells.
25:02
Yeah, I haven't seen her adaptation of Little Women either, but honestly,
25:07
I'm like, well, I just saying, well, yeah, that was
25:10
like nineteen eighty two, right, that's when that's set three eighty three,
25:14
eighty three. Okay, sorry, I always get that wrong. It was
25:17
it was a tumultuous time. But I think that, you know, there's
25:21
a comfort there that maybe foretells. I don't know, I haven't seen her
25:23
adaptation with Little Women, So well, we'll find out next week. I'll
25:26
find out next week. I'm the same age as Greta, like, so
25:30
I yeah, like you said, Tristan, you know, this is the
25:33
time that we grew up in, and yeah, it it I mean,
25:37
like I say, He also said, I lived forty five minutes from Sacramento,
25:41
so this was in northern California and I didn't go to a Catholic all
25:45
girls' school slight difference in my upbringing. But yeah, it it felt real
25:52
in a way that you know, there's not a lot of movies set in
25:56
the early two thousands. It's really not a time period that there are some
26:02
like The Love actually, but that's what was more present day that aren't present
26:06
day. It's strange to pick a time a historical period piece. As John
26:11
would say, well you got to you gotta think about it though, is
26:12
like think about when that seventy show came out, right, you know,
26:17
like we're reaching that timeline like in just two years, I mean not even
26:22
Lady Birdy Show is the same kind of a jump. I think maybe,
26:26
yeah, it's that, But that's what I'm saying, is that like where
26:30
we were, Like, we're further from when that seventy show aired to when
26:34
that seventy show was set. Yes, so that's the kind of weird place
26:41
that we're in, like that millennials are just that's why we're all starting to
26:45
go get kolonoscopies now, is because we're starting to realize that we're getting older
26:49
and it's it is crazy, like to think of, you know, two
26:55
thousand and two as a as a period piece, but it's it's it's it
26:59
is, and it's it's going to be that way. So I want to
27:00
talk about the cast a little bit more. I want to talk about like,
27:04
you know, John, you talked about her accent and you gave a
27:07
lot of praise. What did you think of Ronan's performance overall, Like did
27:12
she You know, we talked about how Nietzsche it is because it's two thousand
27:17
and two Sacramento girl going to an all girl Catholic school and everything like that.
27:22
But at the same time, even though it was nietzsch it felt you
27:26
know, universal, the sense of we all have growing pains, you know,
27:30
like, were you able to connect to this movie even though you're an
27:34
eighty two year old man? Eighty three you made the same again, say
27:40
identistic? Sorry what I was not brass tacks. No on an emotional level,
27:47
nah, I mean, And part of that is I am far enough
27:49
out of high school that like, I'm like, ehh, yeah, I
27:52
was a dumb kid, you know that that sort of like I'm at that
27:56
phase. And but that doesn't mean I couldn't, you know, plug into
28:00
what the movie was saying and what the character was going through. To bring
28:03
it back to the performance question, Ronan creates a character that I believe exists.
28:08
I believe that this person exists in the world. While I'm watching the
28:12
film. I don't feel that there's an affectation or some sort of clever gimmick
28:18
to try to trick me into thinking the person exists. This feels like,
28:22
oh, you know, this is either a real person or based on a
28:25
real person that existed, sort of thing which I think in a film like
28:27
this is exactly what a performance is going for. I'll give the same amount
28:30
of praise to her dad and to Laurie Metcalf as her mom. Because I
28:37
believe that those people exist. And especially difficult is to watch Laurie Metcalf's performance
28:45
and divorce it from recognizing her from her role on Roseanne. Say there's an
28:51
incredibly popular sitcom, and you know the fact that I can sit down and
28:57
watch it and not think, oh, that's Lourie Metcalf from Roseanne, and
29:02
instead this is just Ladybird's mom. I think that Ronan does a good enough
29:07
job, does a great enough job to that Luri Metcalf winds up being what
29:14
I would call a performance casualty, because her performance makes Ronan's even better,
29:19
and they have a real ability to function as an actual existing relationship on screen.
29:30
So I think Ronan is lesser if Metcalf doesn't give what she's giving.
29:33
And I think Metcalf is able to work with Ronan in such a way that
29:37
her performance is elevated, and again, Tracy lets he winds up giving exactly
29:42
the right dad performance to balance, you know, to counterbalance the two of
29:47
them. And so it's like there's a really strong triumvirate right there of performance
29:52
that is appropriately balanced. I think it would have been way too easy to
29:56
lean into Ronan at the expense of these actors. But again, Gerwi as
30:00
a director recognizes that she needs to let Lets and metcalf shine in their own
30:04
way to make it all work. It's interesting that you say that, because
30:10
I agree with you that these were great performances and that they felt like real
30:15
people. And one of the reasons why, in my opinion, they felt
30:19
like real people is because I disliked a lot of the things that they were
30:23
doing. And I say that in a good way, like you don't have
30:29
to be a perfect mother, you don't have to be a perfect father.
30:33
On screen. I feel like there's so many times when we have a protagonist,
30:38
that protagonist has to be a paragon of virtue, and all of their
30:41
friends and family has to be paragon of virtues and say all the right things
30:45
in all the right ways in order to be perceived as quote unquote good.
30:49
You know, Laurie Metcalfe's performance as Ladybird's mom, she does some really petty
30:57
stuff. She says some really horrible things to Ladybird, some things that like
31:03
she guilt trips her and and manipulates her, and like puts a lot on
31:07
her that no teenager deserves to have put on them. While they're while they're
31:14
being a teenager. And there was a lot of times when I felt like
31:15
the father was just a weak man and just like you know, you know,
31:22
like just not speaking up when he when he needed to. And but
31:26
these are real people, that stuff happens. But yeah, yeah, I
31:29
think, yeah, I'm sorry to cut you off. But like that that
31:33
was sort of like a criticism of the of the dad character that I would
31:36
have expected. But what I think the true I don't want to use the
31:40
word brilliance, but the true strength of his performance is that he like because
31:47
the mom shares that your dad's going through a lot, they're laying people off
31:52
there, so you get a bit of dialogue while they're having their their face
31:56
off at one point where the mom is giving her a guilt trip. But
32:00
like, why is the dad so restrained. It's because he's under this crushing
32:04
stress and weight at work. And it's like that's the real world thing where
32:07
a real person is going to withdraw. They're either going to blow up or
32:10
they're going to withdraw, or they going to do this or they're going to
32:13
do that, And this is one of those avenues that a dad can go
32:15
down. And so in a sense, this dad winds up being actually a
32:20
really good dad because he never throws it on Ladybird. The mom throws it
32:24
on her, but he doesn't, and so he's actually taking a slightly more
32:28
noble approach to his pressures and just withdrawing. It's not healthy because he's internalizing
32:34
everything and you know, for his own plah blah all that stuff. You
32:36
can break that down. But again, it's a complexity, and it's a
32:38
very quiet sort of complexity for the character that I think is good is really
32:44
good. And I think that Laurie Metcalf finding out, you know, what
32:46
the mom does and everything she goes through during the day, you kind of
32:52
get like, there, that's how real world relationships work. Sometimes you transfer
32:57
your stress from one part of your life to the other one because away you
33:00
can get it out of you. Yeah. I think the dad's arc,
33:04
which is a nice little arc, also really helps set it in two thousand
33:07
and two. You have an older generation that's being replaced by younger because technology
33:14
is changing. Like the man like the scene where his son is like going
33:16
for the same job as him, Like ooh, you're kind of feeling that,
33:22
But yeah, but I love the scenes where he's got the little secret
33:27
with Lady Bird about applying for East Coast, and like, that's very Dad,
33:31
that's very like, you know, I'm in your corner, kid,
33:36
And I love that. And it's not that the mom is the villain.
33:39
She's not. She's the mom and she's I mean, you can tell she's
33:44
got stressors on her. But like again, the little thing of him saving
33:51
the discarded drafts of the letter and comforting her when she circles back to the
33:57
airport. But missus Ladybird, like again, his little arc is really nice.
34:01
But we barely see him. He's barely in this movie. But what
34:06
we do get is is really well done. That that airport scene, that
34:10
that is really really well done. And I read a little behind the scenes
34:15
and Laurie Metcalf told Gerwig, I can do this twice and that's all you're
34:19
getting. I love that. I absolutely love that. So Lucas Hedges as
34:28
Danny, that relationship between Ladybird and Danny, that was I thought that was
34:32
really tastefully done. And the fact that it was put into theater kids is
34:39
a very realistic aspect of being a theater kid and being surrounded by by the
34:47
people who are on the outset of society are the X men, you know,
34:52
like the you know everything like that, and so it made sense that
34:55
Danny was gay. It absolutely made sense that Danny was gay. What did
34:59
you think, you know, Darren, what did you think about that relationship
35:01
between Ladybird and Danny, Like should it? Did you? Did you like
35:07
that Danny Danny Bird? Did you like, did you get married? So
35:13
that didn't happen, but that didn't happen, but did you like, you
35:15
know, it would have been easy for the story to be one and done
35:20
with Danny, like, oh, Ladybird sees him kiss the other guy,
35:22
and then that's the last three him was I mean, not that he was,
35:25
but it obviously he didn't drop off the face of the earth, but
35:30
it kind of was one and done. In the fact that this movie is
35:35
jumping through time a lot, it's it's a whole I don't know if it's
35:38
like a whole school year or exactly how long it is, but we at
35:43
least go through Thanksgiving and Christmas, so it's it's kind of like a school
35:45
her senior year. But yeah, because then it's kind of shown by like
35:50
she crosses out his name and writes the new guy on her wall, and
35:53
and we just kind of move on, so not that we don't see him,
35:57
and the part with like his grandmother and stuff like that goes back.
36:00
But I think it's well done in the fact that it doesn't dwell on Danny
36:06
and be like, this is what the movie's gonna be about. Is this
36:08
one and done relationship. It's like, no, we're gonna move on because
36:13
that's life. And you know, I mean, just again, there's all
36:16
these other little stories, but they're presented so well that you believe Danny has
36:21
a whole other arc that we just don't see of this senior year. I
36:25
think a lot of I'm gonna pronounce his last name, father Levia, Yes,
36:32
we'll go with that. Just say Steve McKinley Henderson. Oh so much
36:37
easier. But yeah, with Steve McKinley Henderson, well, I could only
36:42
see his doing role. I'm sorry, but I kept thinking he was a
36:45
computer during the entire time. But no, but that's another little arc of
36:47
him obviously having depression or some sort of health issue, and it's just the
36:52
innerwovenness of these stories that he also saw and saw, you know, help
36:59
from, you know, Ladybird's mom, and so just all these players of
37:05
this story, it felt very real in a way that movies can easily not.
37:12
You can easily feel like, oh, and then we're gonna add this
37:14
character who totally doesn't act like a kid in their senior year would, and
37:20
we're gonna give him way too much screen time. It's like, no,
37:22
there was none of that. So I applauded for that. And one thing,
37:27
like you talked about realism, one thing that I really appreciated was and
37:30
I was grinning like an idiot when these scenes came up, but when Henderson
37:36
was doing theater games with the students, Apparently Henderson actually teaches at Juilliard,
37:43
Like he's a graduate of Juilliard and he teaches at Juilliard, and so Gerwig
37:46
said, just do theater games. Just do theater games. He's like,
37:51
okay, I can do that. And so what we saw was just him
37:54
doing theater games with the kids. Easiest check I ever learned. Ye,
38:00
And it's so real. It works so well. But then of course they
38:06
end it with a very scripted moment of him being the first to cry,
38:10
and you're like, oh, this guy has some issues. But then the
38:14
very next scene, boom, they just butt it right up against with this
38:19
weird exposition scene of a kid saying like, yeah, I think like his
38:23
kid died or something. Anyway, my mom's hereby, and you're like,
38:27
that's such a real moment. It's funny and sad at the same time,
38:30
but that is exactly how kids are. Yeah, it is, it is.
38:35
I mean, I'll be the bad guy on this one. I think
38:38
that while there's a very clear storytelling sense and everything like that, and Gerwig
38:45
is very much in control from beginning to finish, there is a there's an
38:51
odd sort of impression I was left with where and maybe this is just a
38:55
personal thing, but as we're going along, there's a lot going on,
39:00
and unfortunately, maybe it's a function of time, maybe it's a function of
39:07
maybe you know, it just didn't strike me in the same way. But
39:10
there were aspects of this that land, and then there are aspects that don't
39:15
because I'm not given enough time to be with or process it, and it
39:20
feels like there are certain moments that that hit and it's like, oh,
39:23
I'd like to spend a little more time with this as an audience member,
39:29
just because I want to feel a little bit more connected to it, and
39:31
I'll pull something that just seems really weird, but the you know, their
39:37
performance or whatever, like spending a little more time with that and with that
39:44
play and what it meant to her, if anything, or having her say,
39:47
well, you know what it actually when I'm not meaning the thing that
39:50
I thought it would mean or what have you. I'm not trying to re
39:52
I'm just trying to give sort of a clumsy example of how there's so much
39:58
going on that I know I said earlier. I'm a little bit older,
40:00
so I've got a little bit more distance there, but it didn't feel it
40:05
felt too frenetic at points where there's so much going on that emotionally, I
40:10
don't wind up connecting as strongly with things as I would have liked to the
40:15
dad I wind up connecting to because I'm a dad of teenagers, and so
40:20
maybe that's why that part jumps out at me as I'm like, yeah,
40:22
okay, that feels right on, and the stress and all that stuff and
40:27
making the decision not to you know, express that in a certain way,
40:31
those sorts of things. Maybe you know, I know I'm being clumsy when
40:36
I'm saying this but it's like, I think it's almost a victim of the
40:39
fact that it is such tight storytelling that maybe the appeal of this film is
40:46
limited by it by its very nature. You both have said, you know,
40:51
you're closer in time to when this is set and the type of lifestyle
40:54
it goes through. Maybe that's just the nature of it where I'm going to
41:00
get an emotional punch from this, but I'll be able to intellectually go along
41:02
with it and get what's being told. I think, I think I get
41:07
what you're saying. I I think that's a completely valid criticism because there's a
41:14
lot of things that are messy, you know, like high school life.
41:17
There's a lot of things that are messy that doesn't always get a lot of
41:22
attention, Like Miguel and Shelley. You're kind of like, Okay, you
41:25
know, like what's the point of this, what's going on here? Why
41:30
is this happening? But at the same time, they're not worthless because they're
41:35
utilized for storytelling, beats later on and you know, and everything like that.
41:40
But I think one thing that kind of comes up that I don't really
41:45
get the final I don't think it really lands is the whole math teacher pseudo
41:52
obsession that that Beanie has Julie has the best friend has. Yep, you're
41:57
just kind of like, why is that there? You know, like that's
42:00
weird, Like we like I would have rather have seen Ladybird and Julie together
42:04
more than have this weird side plot of Julie being sad that mister Bruno has
42:10
a wife. You know it, It's one of those things. It's just
42:15
an example, you know. Yeah, it feels almost as if it's a
42:19
it's when it's coming together compulsion to say, well, Julie needs a moment
42:22
to flesh out her character more, and it just doesn't work as well as
42:28
it could have. I don't know. That's yeah, no, I'm sorry,
42:30
And that's I think that's me trying to say like, oh, yeah,
42:34
no, like even though I think I connected to this more than you,
42:37
I totally get that criticism criticism where I think sometimes the fredetic nature pays
42:42
off if you just stick with it, but at other times you're just kind
42:44
of like know that that could have been, that could have been cut and
42:49
then time spent elsewhere. But like with with Julie, I really I was
42:55
able to connect with Julie pretty quickly, and I think that gives a lot
43:01
of credit to Gerwig Ronan and of course Feldstein. It's either felt Steine or
43:07
Feldstein. I apologize, I don't know which it is. And she,
43:12
I think, does a really great job of just welcoming you in immediately with
43:16
her performance, like you immediately know who she's, who she is, what
43:21
she's about, and you just you're like, I would be friends with her.
43:25
I would absolutely befriends with her. And I loved I love this the
43:30
stupid moments where they're they're they're eating the wafers and talking about masturbation, you
43:37
know, like it's so blasphemous but innocent at the same time. And I
43:40
think that's that's one of those things that I think really is is interesting about
43:46
this is that, like you you have just like the relationship that she has
43:50
with her mom is that it's really close but also really crazy. And you
43:54
know, like with Ladybird, like you're like, you know, she wants
43:58
to be a rebel, but she she doesn't really do anything really crazy.
44:02
Like she's like, I'm gonna get some cigarettes and I got a porno mag
44:06
and that is freaking Like when she's looking at the naked man. It's freaking
44:08
hilarious. You know. I think that there are a couple of moments though,
44:15
where the humor is a little maybe it's just not my my brain of
44:20
humor. I'll give Gerwick credit for giving them the line where, you know,
44:24
when the girl comes in, she's like, you're not supposed to eat
44:28
those and like they're not consecrated. That's almost anticipating somebody like me in the
44:31
audience being like, no, no, it's it's it's not you know,
44:35
you shouldn't do it, but it's not that big a deal exactly. But
44:37
as somebody who is Catholic and has you know, taken communion numerous times,
44:43
nobody eats those wafers for fun. It's not exactly like it's it's not like,
44:47
hey, this is a peanut butter chip. It's like, no,
44:50
you don't snack on those things. That's not really really anything that listen any
44:54
any port in a storm. Okay, that's no, not really, not
45:00
really, but you know, and there's you know, even that moment though,
45:06
where she turns eighteen and she's like, I'm gonna get cigarettes in a
45:08
porno mag It's like that actually is a moment that really I disconnected from because
45:16
that felt like the four sort of haha, I'm going to make a comment
45:20
on an American society thing. And I'm like, is that that doesn't feel
45:23
like that's this movie? How is that a comment on American society? I
45:27
don't understand that. I know tons of people have done that. I did
45:30
that when I turned eighteen. When you turned eighteen, you went down you
45:32
bought a pack of cigarette. Well I was smoking before I was eighteen.
45:36
Yeah, no, I literally did. I bought a pack of cigarettes just
45:38
so I could chill them. My ID and my sister did it, and
45:42
my cousins did it. Yeah, really, yes, yes, this just
45:45
didn't land. Didn't land for me there again, probably because I had started
45:52
smoking before I was eighteen, so you know, yeah, like I shot
45:55
parnomags when I was sixteen seventeen again and I will until I'm eighty three.
46:04
But the uh, okay, well, what what was I gotta know now?
46:08
What was the brand of cigarettes that you bought when you turned eighteen?
46:10
Because it's twenty one now, so yeah, like that's working. But when
46:15
you turn eighteen and you bought a pack of cigarettes, what was it?
46:16
Uh, it had a green top. Menthols. You bought myos. I
46:22
don't think it was Menthols. Oh, but it had a green. It
46:24
wasn't Menthols, but it had a green. I don't know, man,
46:27
it was it was the cheapest ones. It was a heavy smoker for a
46:30
very long time, and I have nothing but disdain. No, because Menthols
46:32
usually had green. Darren, what brand cigarettes did you buy? I didn't
46:37
smoke. Yeah, no, you didn't even pack. No. I would
46:43
definitely not be able to handle it. I've always had like a low tolerance
46:45
to like smoke in general. And uh, yeah, no, that was
46:50
never even on the plate for me. So it was it was two pornographic
46:52
magazines when you turn eighteen two two. No, it was not. Okay,
46:57
all right, all right, before before we wrap up, because we're
47:01
about to hit the hour mark here in a couple of minutes, we do
47:05
have to talk about Timothy Chalame because everybody's talking about Timothy Chaalame right now.
47:09
And I loved how absolutely cringey his character was because it was so real.
47:20
It was like, oh my god, I knew that guy. I was
47:22
that guy in certain aspects, and you're just like God, dang it,
47:25
growig, Why why did you have to write that so clearly believe about cell
47:30
phones into Oh my gosh, it's just like the manipulation, the the well
47:38
you're choosing to be angry right now. I'm I'm sure i'd said that in
47:43
high school because it made me sound like an intellectual, or like this,
47:46
the pseudo intellectual crap that comes out of his mouth where you realize he's full
47:50
of crap. It's so perfect, like this is a guy who's gotten by
47:54
on his looks for so long that he just knows that if you just say
48:00
something that sound smart, no one's gonna question him because he's good looking.
48:02
I'm in a band, Yeah might it meets in a parking lot because it's
48:07
so underground, but not an under grand parking lot, but above grand parking
48:10
lot. But but yes, that is a that is a well drawn character.
48:15
That is definitely a well drawn character. And I think there is credit
48:20
deserving of Chalomey because much like Ronan, I believe this guy exists. I
48:24
feel like, like you said, I feel like I knew this guy in
48:28
some regards. Yeah, I mean another small role. I love the coach
48:35
to who takes over the dress class. It's just it's funny. It's and
48:40
he's trying so hard. He's like, okay, you're you're an actor number
48:45
one. He's like drawing it on the board and we all see, we
48:47
all see the joke coming a mile away. It is not trying to be
48:52
subtle, but it is still hilarious where it's like it's like when your pe
48:55
teacher gets you know, becomes your science teacher and you're like, how is
48:59
this gonna work? I love that that bit. It was so but I
49:02
love that he that he pulls it off and that like he's like he jumps
49:06
in the air and he's super invested. And also at the same time,
49:09
like when he's doing the blocking, I'm like, yeah, man, that's
49:13
how you do it. And then you're gonna move downstage and that's what this
49:16
line means. And everyone's like okay, I mean you're you're giving us blocking,
49:20
And I love how you're smart enough to be like they're like, well,
49:22
what are our roles? And he's like, well, I ask this
49:24
other teacher who actually knows you all to sign the roles, because yeah,
49:29
he would have no idea. He's like your number player one, two,
49:32
three, four, as far as he's concerned at this moment. Oh,
49:36
speaking of which, Merrily We Roll Along is going to be a link letder
49:40
picture that's gonna come out in twenty forty. And Beanie Feldstein, Beanie Feldstein,
49:47
who played the lead in the play in Ladyberg is going to be the
49:52
lead in the movie. And they're filming it every little like a little bit
49:55
every year. He's just like Boyhood, Yeah, doing the Boyhood thing.
49:59
Okay. I just think that's so cool that, like, you know,
50:00
Beanie's gonna do that. I just I think that's great that it started here
50:06
in Ladybird. It is cool. But and everybody please understand, I really
50:10
enjoy the film Boyhood. I think it's it's a great film. But just
50:15
the whole the whole thing of like I'm going to film this over there.
50:17
That's a documentary. Just just do a documentary. Just follow a family around
50:21
for for fifteen years. Okay, this just having fun with it. Not
50:24
being such a curmudgeon. Oh I'm eighty three, okay, easy, all
50:30
right, all right, So Darren, per tradition, you get to rate
50:34
this first. I want to know how many Playgirl magazines are you giving this
50:40
picture? I knew that's what you're gonna say. Let's see, I'm gonna
50:45
how many trips on the I eighty as we go by, how many loops
50:50
around to the airport, We'll do that. Gosh, I'm gonna give it
50:55
a four. It's it's a really good movie. I enjoyed it. You
51:01
know, it's not a bad movie. There's nothing I hated about it or
51:05
was like, oh this took me out or anything like that. I think
51:08
my view is still really summed up with like the first thing I said that
51:12
this feels like a circuit movie, like a film festival, which is not
51:15
a bad thing. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying but that's a
51:19
kind of vibe. You know, it's it's her first movie. It checks
51:22
all those boxes. But it is good and I can see why, you
51:27
know, I look at I should remember these names. But director who did
51:31
Tron Legacy, Kazinsky Kazinsky, that was very early in his career as well,
51:39
Like he was just like boom, boom boom, and now I'm doing
51:43
Tron Legacy, so I can It's really interesting to see where gret is going
51:47
to go with this. I'm also excited where she's going to go after Barbie
51:52
because she useless on the beginning of that upswing in her career. So yeah,
51:57
I'm going to give it a solid four trips around to the airport and
52:01
uh yeah, it's uh. It did make me a little nostalgic though,
52:06
for you know, pull out the vhs, yes, vhs of my senior
52:12
year high school video that we have and because yeah, oh two, I
52:16
mean we were the class of nine to eleven. That happened my senior year.
52:21
You know, it was just it was a really interesting time, the
52:22
pre cell phones, the no social media. This movie captured it really.
52:28
I mean they even had the one shot of the nine to eleven never forget
52:32
poster and I'm like, yeah, that that was up because that was that
52:36
year. John, Well, this is how many packs of Marlboro reds?
52:45
Well, actually, you know my when I first started smoking, it was
52:47
camel camel lights. So okay, how many packs of camel lights do I
52:51
give it? This is where I'm particularly heartless. I get it. Everybody
52:54
can hate me. It's a three star film. It's really well put together.
53:00
I see a lot of promise from Gerwig. This is a director where
53:02
I say, all of the praise stands. All the performances are there.
53:07
It just for me, and I think I dropped enough hints of this.
53:09
It lacked the emotional connection. I didn't have that, and so it for
53:15
me, it becomes very much an exercise in this person told a story.
53:21
They told it very very well. But there's nothing in here that makes me
53:24
say and I treasured the experience, and so I'm going to go back and
53:28
revisit it at some point in the future, so it's well put together.
53:31
I see a lot of promise in Gerwig here, but the film itself is
53:36
good but not great. So that's a three for me. I don't I
53:40
don't think that's brutal. I think with how you approached it and everything that
53:45
you said leading up to it, you didn't have any like. Three is
53:49
totally respectable, totally respectable score from the issues that you had with it.
53:52
For me, I'm much more in Darren's camp. I'm giving it a four.
53:58
This is a solid four for me. This was I grin ear to
54:01
ear when I when I watch it. I've watched this twice now. I
54:05
saw it when it first came out on physical release. I missed it in
54:08
the theater. I missed it at the circuit, and it was something that
54:14
when I first saw it. I liked this the second time as much as
54:17
I liked it the first time, and some that is rare sometimes for me,
54:22
and I yeah, I just I really connect with with all the characters
54:28
in this, and not because they're great people or particularly special, but just
54:31
because they're so real and relatable, the good things and the bad things and
54:37
all of them. And I laughed, and there's no moment when I cried,
54:43
Like, there was no moment when I was like, you know,
54:45
I don't you know, like I just can't handle it, you know,
54:47
anything like that. But I think for the reasons it's not a five star
54:52
film for me because of some of the frenetic things that we talked about that
54:54
don't work. And also the ending is kind of weird, like it's just
54:58
like, oh, we don't know how this is going to end, and
55:00
so we're going to wrap this up instead of sending her off to college and
55:05
then like having that having that be a little bit more emotional or have her
55:08
like read the letters on the plane or something. I don't know. Again,
55:13
I'm not trying. I'm not saying I could do it. Better than
55:15
Gerwig. I'm just saying that, like, it just felt odd, it
55:19
felt out of place, and so that's why I'm knocking it down to start
55:22
to four, a very respectable, very solid, very great four. So
55:25
Darren, what are we doing next week? Next week, we're jumping to
55:30
twenty nineteen's Little Women, a period piece. As John would say here on
55:37
house Lights, join the revolution, Join the net Party.