Latest / Ruining the Workplace Podcast / Ep 11 Frances Perkins Ruins Worker's Rights
Transcript
- Jaden: I'm Jayden and this is the Ruining the Workplace podcast. Danielle: and I'm Danielle. Yeah, that's all it is. That's Jaden: Yeah, no, I mean we're just talking on the podcast, which incidentally is the whole point. Danielle: Oddly enough, that's what you do. It's wild to me. Jaden: And we're back. Danielle: And here we are, talking yet again. Jaden: on the ruining the workplace podcast. Hi. How are you? Danielle: Welcome back. Hi, hello. Greetings. I'm good. I've been trying to get some socials up for the podcast. there it's I'm not a social media person, is what I'm learning. I knew this. But I was like, I I need to create some things for Instagram. And I'm like, I don't even know. Like, this is some people's job, you know, and that's cool. But Jaden: Yes. Me neither. Mm-hmm. Mm. Danielle: I'm like, I gotta do re reels and then I it like, what do you put in the grid? But now apparently you can like rearrange your grid and I'm like, Jaden: Ooh. my gosh. that makes sense. Cause I yeah, I don't do this socially either. I haven't had an Instagram in like over ten years. And like I yeah, I don't know what all the capabilities are. Hey, we're just showing our amateur hour here. Welcome. Welcome to amateur hour. Danielle: I don't know. Right. Hello. But you know what? Our capabilities are having really fucking amazing conversations. We don't need social media to talk. I mean, we need it to like get the word out to other people who aren't in this conversation, but you know. Jaden: That's true. That is absolutely true. Or we do, and we should use it as a tool. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think that this is just good news for people who do enjoy this podcast. All two of you. Thank you for listening. Danielle: Mm. Mm-hmm. Jaden: Well, and I think that the point of all of this is more like, yes, we're working on social media stuff, and we're also working on a Reddit fu what is it? A post group? I don't either. I just get lost in rabbit holes. That's what I know. Danielle: Yes. Yes. I don't even know what happens on Reddit. Like I don't it's dangerous and we're about to be one of those rabbit holes. Jaden: It's so fun. Yeah. Danielle: I I wish that I had a picture to show you because my outfit is really I think not today, but my outfit was on Tuesday. I went to go see Sammy Kershaw. I don't know if you know who this is. Jaden: I do not. Who is that? Danielle: No one's gonna know. he is a 90s country legend. It was so sweet. I think he has problematic politics. At one point during his show, he mentioned the Gulf of America, and I was like, no, no, but I love some of your songs. Stop. but I didn't know that. but I went with my mom and my dad and some of my aunts and uncles and my granny. Jaden: Ha ha. Danielle: so I was there with my my old people and it was it was so much fun and I had the cutest dress. it was hot pink and light pink accents and it was very Dolly Parton esque. Like it was a fuller skirt, but it was just like a retro with like the pearl buttons and I wore white cowboy boots. I felt super cute, it was hot as hell. Jaden: Mm. Ha ha Danielle: Like my mascara like sweated off my face. But it was so fun. I'm like, this is just this is the summer. This is like the summer vibes. You know what I mean? So there's Jaden: This Yes. Danielle: There's a farm field that has transformed over the last, I don't know, twenty years into a very major concert venue near where I live or they do festivals. And then somebody else in a couple towns over did a is doing a similar thing with their one of their farm fields. So there's like a stage and they bring out like names that people know if you know, if you listen to that type of music. So the one that we went to on Tuesday kind of specializes, I think, in getting like these nineties people coming out. Jaden: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Hm. Danielle: And it was really, really fun. Like if you just told me the name, I'd be like, hmm. I have heard that name before, but I don't know if I could tell you any of the songs. And then once I look it up, I'm like, my God. But like he he sings Queen of My Double Wide Trailer. This is amazing. Jaden: Mm-hmm. The double wide. Danielle: I know. Such a good song. Everyone should look it up. It's so fun. I mean he's got other bangers as well. But yeah, that's been like the highlight this week is like I went to go see this nineties country legend. I looked cute as hell. and I hung out with my my oldies, yeah. Jaden: similarly, I am attending a sort of festival this coming weekend and it is I'm going to the Renfair. Yeah. I've never been. I've never wanted to go. Yeah. I'm only I'm only going because my daughter is Danielle: my god. Are you? my god. my god. Yeah. Jaden: A person who wants to experience Renfare. And she also wants to go to like comic cons and shit like that. It's just all the stuff that I never dreamed I would ever do. And now I have a kid who does all the opposite things, you know what mean? So I'm going with her and a really good friend of mine who is like cosplay renfair. that is her thing. So I'm I'm excited for that reason. And I got this really awesome outfit. I'm gonna be s shocking to no one. A a witch. Danielle: much as she should. Right. my God. Yeah. Jaden: I know, right? It's crazy. Danielle: Like a good like Linda, right? G Linda? Right, you're wearing pink. Jaden: No, no. Hard no. And no. Yeah, no. Anyway, so I'm I'm excited for that and I'm a little bit nervous because I think it's gonna be really overwhelming and just something I am not at all familiar with. So we'll see how I am next week. Danielle: no, thank you. Wow, I love that so much. Jaden: I up anyway, so it's cool. And Violet's Yeah. Danielle: Right? I love that you all are dressing up. That's so fun. I love it. Jaden: I'm really interested to see what the sort of class representation is across Runfair because I know it's you know it's all these different eras and times and etc. But I'm gonna use that as a segue because well last time I talked about socialites if you recall. This time we're gonna talk about middle class. That's right. Danielle: right. Mm. I do, yes. The disappearing middle class? Jaden: The disappearing middle class. Well, yeah. to get us started, I have a question for you. Do you like weekends? Danielle: Hm. Mm. Mm, you know, yes. Jaden: How about the concept of like a retirement check or God forbid unemployment? How do you feel about those things? Danielle: What is retirement? and what even is that? yes and yes to both of those things. They s they seem lovely and like great benefits to have. Well good. Jaden: Well, good. Because if you've ever Well, great. If you've ever had a weekend, which I know you have, But you probably haven't yet had a retirement check. But you will, because you're paying into the social security system, I'm assuming. Danielle: Mm-hmm. That's true. Jaden: And you may at some point in your life need unemployment or overtime pay. Or perhaps you've been living in the sort of world that you're already getting overtime pay. Who knows? But the point is you are living slash working in a world that is in large part built by one, Francis Perkins. Danielle: Mm. Fran. Can we call her Fran? I it's a well, we talk about women, so it's obviously a her. I'm like, we're calling her Fran. Female Frances, right? What gross. I'm out. Bye. Jaden: Brad. AHHHH I'm like, no, we're talking about a man today. Yeah, bye. I don't know if we can call her Fran. Let me tell you Fran's story. Are you ready? All right, let's get into it. So Frances Perkins was the first woman to serve in a US cabinet position as Secretary of Labor under Franklin D. Roosevelt. Danielle: Okay. Yes, I am so ready. Jaden: A and as I alluded to, she helped create social security, unemployment insurance, the federal minimum wage, overtime protections, a nice one which is restrictions on child labor and workplace safety reforms. Yeah, but like why, right? Like why did she do all these things? Well, because of workplace trauma, do I like duh you know, she wasn't just sitting behind a computer all day watching the walls close in around her, going more and more insane as the days pass. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Wow. Sor sort of got off trap there. Danielle: Yeah. Mm. Yeah. What do you mean, Jaden? Say more. Jaden: Anyway, an interesting recurring theme in her life was maybe the problem isn't the workers, it's maybe the workplace. and for the early nineteen hundreds of it all, that was a very radical way to think about things, right? But she didn't just think about it, she did shit about it. And w we wouldn't be talking about her if she didn't. So I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you a little Danielle: Hmm. Right, that makes sense. Jaden: Frances was born in Massachusetts on April 10th, 1880. And she was actually born Fanny Coralie Perkins, which kind of adorable. But she was born to a middle class Republican family, and she had one sister, she changed her name to Frances in 1905. So there's your answer. We can call her Frances. Danielle: That is super cute. Banny. yeah, she probably wouldn't want to go by Fran. Okay. Jaden: Yeah. By that time she had entered the Episcopal Church and she attended college at Mount Holyoke College in Worcester, where she got her bachelor's degree in chemistry and physics. And her college years were, where she became very familiar with progressive politics and the suffrage movement. And she did a lot of volunteer work and really started working closely with progressive reformers, which are basically OG social justice warriors, right? so she continued her studies, particularly in economics at Wharton School of Business. And then it was during that time that she joined the Socialist Party of America. Danielle: I love that. Jaden: I started all of this with workplace trauma. So do you have anybody you're like workplace trauma bonded with like forever? And don't say me. Danielle: shape. I wish you could see my face. No. I don't think so. honestly, I haven't had it that bad in context of like stories that I've heard. You know what I mean? I have encountered some silliness, but I I spent most of my twenties working in corporate as a people pleaser and Jaden: Mm mm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Danielle: just trying to like climb that ladder, baby. And so I think I was either blind to a lot of the bullshit or just kinda like, I don't know. What do you need from me? How can I help? You know? Like I and I didn't run into a lot of like straight up assholes. Like I was I'm very fortunate in that way, I think. yeah. Jaden: Mm-hmm. Yeah. That is nice. So any workplace trauma that you have is basically self inflicted at this point. Is that what you're saying? Danielle: Yes, absolut yeah, I do it to myself. Yeah. It's yes. I am my own worst enemy. So there's that Jaden: Well same. man. Well, let's just say that our girl Frances was not trauma bonded by choice, but she was trauma bonded with at least 146 dead people because the event that shaped her career. Yes. Okay. Danielle: my god. Jaden: and this is in 1911, Frances is back in New York City after all of her studies, getting her degrees and whatnot, and you know, basically getting involved with politics and and kind of the social movements that were starting to, you know, occur at this time. But on the afternoon of the 25th of March in 1911, the Triangle Shirtwaist Garment Factory caught fire. Have you ever heard of that? Yes. Well, it was a Danielle: Mm. That sounds familiar. Mm-hmm. Jaden: Pretty big deal. And the Triangle Factory was located in the Greenwich Village area of NYC, my favorite. just east of Washington Square Park. Danielle: Mm-hmm. Jaden: it normally employed about 500 workers, and the majority of whom were young, poor, Italian, Jewish, immigrant women and girls with limited education. And, you know, they just were not great at speaking English. They just haven't learned. And so they were pretty limited in obviously what they could contribute as far as work. And the owners were like, huh, yes, let's take advantage of this. So they Danielle: Mm-hmm. Shackpot. Jaden: Yeah, they were like, well, we prefer hiring immigrant women, especially over men, because they can get paid less and they believe that the women were less likely to unionize. What the fuck? And it also sounds like the owners of this factory got away with insurance fraud like at least four times. So yeah, they were real pieces of shit. Danielle: Hmm. What? We will let businesses get away with anything and everything. Jaden: yeah. So, because of this carelessness, many workers could not escape a rapidly spreading fire that occurred on this day because exits were locked. Okay. The doors to get out were locked. Yeah, I know. Why were the doors locked? Because the owners cared more about theft prevention than worker safety. So, so very on-brand. Danielle: Mmm. What? Are you serious? Jaden: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Danielle: my God. Jaden: So they purposely locked the doors so they could not so the workers could not access their personal belongings like purses or whatever. And the owners would go through their things while the women and yeah, and men would work because they didn't trust their workers to not be stealing things. And the other reason, reportedly, that they were locking the door was because they didn't want Danielle: my god. What? my God, that's insane. Jaden: Any union organizers sneaking in and influencing them. I'm like Danielle: That's bananas. Okay. Jaden: Yeah. So it was it was a very, very, very bad deal. And a hundred and forty six people ended up dying because of this tragedy. And the leading theory for the fire was that either a match or a cigarette was not fully extinguished before it ended up in a scrap pile underneath one of the workers' tables. And so just imagine two months of fabric scrap piles. Danielle: my god. Yikes. Jaden: And hanging fabrics everywhere. And you just imagine a factory floor of like, fabric. And they're up on the eighth, ninth, and tenth floors. you can just imagine that's real fucking bad. Like it's bad. Mm hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And there was like still Danielle: Yeah. my God. they're so they're locked in to the eighth, ninth and tenth floors. Jeepers, creepers. Jaden: elevators running, but it was, you know, they were basically cramming in anywhere they could or finding stairwells. But eventually people actually started to either fall or jump out the windows. And what does this have to do with Francis? Well, she was literally there watching this happen. She was not in the factory, but she was out on the street. And so she witnessed sixty plus people falling from this building. Danielle: my god. Mm-hmm. Jaden: Yep. Danielle: Can you imagine? I can't even imagine that. How horrific and terrifying. God. Yeah. Yes. Jaden: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Trauma, right? Totally. And just another note on these freaking factory owners. As I mentioned, they had already probably escaped insurance fraud multiple times before this, but they had this history, right? Okay, so this place goes up in flames. And they have a history of four previous suspicious fire are fire claims, right? Mm. However, Arson was not suspected in this one. And I'm like, mmm, come on, people. Like Danielle: Yeah. What? no. Come on now. Wake up, really? Yeah. Jaden: If it walks like a duck on fire, the funny thing is, is there was also these magazine articles coming out at the same time about how there's this pattern of arson in the garment industry and noting that businesses were often setting fires intentionally to collect insurance. Danielle: my god. Jaden: when inventory was too high or things were going out of fashion. So like if the trends were changing, they would just burn down their factory. Danielle: my goodness. That's a wild time. I mean, guess that there's like limited regulation on things and like they're certainly not the tracking that we have today. You can pull off some shady stuff. That's nuts. Jaden: Nineteen hundreds were. I mean, yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And they called it they caught the insurance companies call it the moral hazard, which is basically people doing this. Yeah. so again, what does this all mean? Well, so Frances is like, my god, this is horrible. And I'm really, really concerned about the welfare and safety of other people that are working in these factories. So for her, she said later that Danielle: The moral hazard. Jaden: This day became the day that the New Deal began for her. And do we remember what the New Deal is, class? Danielle: Wait, no, we do not, I'll be honest. Jaden: Okay, well the new deal was FDR's answer to the Great Depression. Danielle: okay. Jaden: but at at this point, the echo the economy was in free fall, banks were collapsing, and unemployment was around twenty-five percent. So the Great Depression at this point. his administration rolled out jobs programs, financial reforms, social security, labor protections, basically like a number of federal agencies to create the social safety net. And so again, tying this back to this factory fire and Francis. Danielle: Right. Mm-hmm. Jaden: This whole event really shapes her and all the work that she would do is what leads to the New Deal sort of being the vehicle for all of this. So she really wanted to fight aggressively for mandatory workplace safety laws, fire escapes, building regulations, all those things that were essentially missing, right? And in 1912, she became the executive secretary of the New York Committee on Safety to push forward strict statewide factory safety codes. And Danielle: Okay. Mm-hmm. Jaden: during that time she starts investigating another factory fire in New York where over 60 people died. Danielle: Jeez Louise. Jaden: Obviously And this event actually really put a lot of pressure on New York City to get their shit together. So out of those terrible incidents, something positive begins. But I want to talk a little bit more about Frances herself. In nineteen thirteen, she gets married to an economist named Paul Wilson. Danielle: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jaden: But I just love this part. She like keeps her own last name 'cause, you know, it's politics. You Danielle: Wow. but like for that day and age that seems like that was probably pretty rare. Jaden: Mm-hmm. a couple of years later, she and her husband had a daughter. And she actually stepped back from being so heavily involved in the public sector work to focus on taking care of the daughter. But two years after she was born, her husband Paul starts like losing it. He's like crashing out all over the place and his mental health starts deteriorating deteriorating really quickly. And he ends up being institutionalized multiple times through the rest of their marriage. And this eventually, you know, forces Francis to be Danielle: Mm-hmm. no. no. Jaden: Come the primary breadwinner for the family. So she's just over here being a patty, working, taking care of her daughter and probably her husband in some days. But she's like, you know, if I'm gonna be back, I'm gonna be so back. I'm gonna kick this thing in the face. Danielle: Mm-hmm. course. Hmm. Watch out, world. Yeah. Jaden: And in nineteen nineteen, She was appointed by Governor Al Smith to the New York State Industrial Commission, making her the first female member of the agency. Danielle: Wow. Jaden: And she eventually goes on to be the first chairwoman of like the New York State Industrial Board. And in 1929, Franklin D Roosevelt is president at this point and he basically puts her in charge of the state's entire labor department. Danielle: Wow, that's huge. Jaden: I yeah, yeah. she holds this position for about mm, four or five years. And in nineteen thirty three she was sworn in as the US Secretary of Labor under President Roosevelt. And this is when she is the first woman appointed to a presidential cabinet. she only accepts this position after getting FDR to agree of this like backlog of priorities and labor goals that she's been holding on to. I know. So she holds this position until 1945. and she steps down after FDR's death. And she is, and I believe still holds the title for the longest serving secretary of labor in the US history. And I think it was like a little over 12 years. Danielle: That's amazing. Mm-hmm. Wow, Jaden: in this position she did so much, including overseeing the creation of a national social insurance framework, which successfully drove the passage of the Social Security Act. Yeah. And that's of course where we get retirement, unemployment, federal welfare benefits, and something our children are probably never ever gonna benefit from at this point. Danielle: I love that. Mm-hmm. Right. I don't even know if I will, honestly. No, like, come on. Yeah, it is a little scary. Jaden: I know God. It's a little scary. Yeah. And then one other thing that I wanted to mention is that in nineteen thirty eight, she orchestrated the passage of the Fair Labor Standards Act, which legally defined the 40-hour work week established the first federal minimum wage and officially banned child labor. Danielle: Amazing. That's doing so much work. the unions Jaden: I know. Yes. So in nineteen fifty-three, she resigns from federal service following the death of her husband. So he finally passes on. And then she goes on to spend the rest of her life being a professor and a lecturer at Cornell. And then she died in New York City at the age of eighty five in nineteen sixty five. Danielle: wow. Wow, that's awesome. I mean, not that she, like her story is awesome. Not that, my God. Amazing. No, right, we did it. And at the end of the day, we die. No, that's cool. Like that she served in so many different capacities and for such a long length of time doing different kinds of things to make positive change. Jaden: my god, so cool. She died, really? Whoa. Another feat for women. She's dead. Mm. Danielle: and then carried on by teaching. It wasn't just, I'm gonna retire to a quiet life. It's like, I'll teach some of these things at a very well-known school. I'm trying to picture how often she had to have been the only woman in the room or in the conversation. You know what I mean? Jaden: Mm. Ha ha ha Mm. Mm. Mm-hmm. Danielle: Like. to have such a bit, like Secretary of Labor is not a small job. That's a big, massive responsibility. And some of the reforms that she's responsible for are huge. And to be a woman in that space and in that time, like pushing for these changes, surrounded by what I have to assume is a lot of greedy men. You know, that's so fascinating. Jaden: No, no, no. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm curious, like, this is a really, really big topic. I mean, there's so much that I haven't even mentioned, but knowing we do mid dives, I think Frances is such an interesting person because she really just spent her career building systems for workers whose lives had fallen apart due to like shit that's out of their control, right? And it's hard because her own life was complicated. Her husband was ill, she had a daughter, and Danielle: down. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. Right. Jaden: none of the stuff was it was quickly becoming out of theory in terms of like how do we solve these problems and into reality where it's like we have to build these bridges. So Danielle: Right, right. Well, and it's interesting too, because if I'm remembering correctly, it's not like she came from an old New York family, right? Like she's not coming from money or from a position of power. Jaden: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Danielle: She's getting involved. She's hearing things at these socialist committee meetings, I'm sure, and just getting more and more involved. And through her own gumption and intelligence, is able to start getting notice and make changes. It's not like, well, daddy introduced me to so-and-so, and then I married Bill, and Bill serves on this board. You know what I mean? Jaden: Mm. Mm-hmm. Ha ha. Danielle: It's cool to see her building this legacy on her own and then carrying on in spite of personal life difficulties and roadblocks along the way. Jaden: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Danielle: so one thing that's been kind of sitting in the back of my mind as you've been telling me all of this is, you know, one of the things that we hear people say about like women and holding positions of power or leadership is like, they're too emotional. Blah, stupid stuff like that. Like we're too emotional, we can't handle it or we can't keep a cool head. don't, I don't, do people still say that? I don't know. It feels like that was a big thing. Jaden: Mm. Danielle: when I was younger, where was like, we'd never have a woman president. They're just too emotional and unstable, right? Yes, you're right. that, yep, you're right. I'm, So thinking of that lens that exists in the world, but then also seeing like, is it perhaps our emotional maturity and our capacity to have and feel our feelings that Jaden: I think they said that about Kamala, if I recall correctly. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm. Danielle: actually enables us to get shit done and fix the problems. Like a woman cares deeply about the conditions that people are in, sees this traumatic event of the factory fire and uses that to fuel, hey, I'm going to do something about this. You know what I mean? Like our emotional capabilities are not a weakness. I've never thought that they were, but this feels like a perfect example of actually, maybe we do. Jaden: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Mm. Mm. Danielle: get emotional. I don't even know if I believe that, like our emotions are pushing us forward because we can take action on them. We're not just like, I'm mad. I don't know. You know, that's just been sitting in the back of my mind of like the, the idea of an emotional woman is actually a superpower because who goes in and gets shit done. Jaden: Yeah. Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And the sort of invisible thread I think you're pulling is really interesting here too, because there is this t the gender argument, right? Where it's like, okay, she was the first female to do X and she got paid a lot and that was really unusual. But there was of course people who were like detractors and they were like Danielle: Mm-hmm. yeah, I'm sure. Jaden: Her her her interests don't represent our interests. And, you know, it's not because she's a woman. It's just because she's a radical and we have evidence of this because she didn't want to take her husband's last name. That kind of thing. It's like Danielle: Right. Right. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Jaden: Okay. So she was like, whatever. I'm just gonna continue being the first of many things. And I'm also going to then use this to convince people who didn't believe it that my contributions actually are invaluable. And quote from one of her fellow commissioners, from the work which Miss Perkins has accomplished, I am convinced that more women ought to be placed in high positions throughout State Departments. Danielle: Mm-hmm. Well, look at that. Jaden: So to that's the thread, right? Like, using that and continuing on, if you can, not even if you can, I think using that difference between how men and women operate a lot of the time in an emotional way to her benefit and as a tool, right? Yeah. Danielle: Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right, right, yeah, that's exactly it. Jaden: Mm-hmm. And again, you know, I think that she just saw a lot of opportunity in the challenges that were happening and she was not afraid to sort of break the system. And we have her to thank for all of these things like weekends. We love a weekend, don't we? Danielle: Mm-hmm. We love a weekend. Jaden: And if you enjoy weekends, overtime pay, unemployment insurance, not sending your ten year old into a textile mill to work or the general concept of retiring someday, you are again living in Francis Perkins world. Danielle: my god. Thank a woman. Think a woman today. Jaden: Thank a woman. I know that isn't our tip of the week, but should we dive into our workplace tip of the week? Danielle: No. Yes, let us dive in. You know, it's tangentially related to the concept of weekends and that weekends are a celebration of doing our own things, My ruining the workplace tip of the week is to look at your calendar six months out from today and Jaden: Mm-hmm. Danielle: block it off or book an appointment, whatever you do with your calendar, write a town. And it's just a celebration day that things worked out or that you have made it to that day. And I'm borrowing this from someone I saw on Instagram, but I think it's just such a great idea to have something in the future, not just to look forward to, but like kind of a planned, but Jaden: I love it. Danielle: maybe unfocused celebration. So book that day and spend a little bit of time, not too much time. We don't want to over engineer this. It's not that complicated. Jaden: Ha ha. I like that. Danielle: And then when you get to that day, you can just celebrate like, man, six months ago, I was really mad about X, Y, and Z. And look at how that turned out. It's a little bit of acting as if things are fine. And this is like a pre-celebration of that. Yeah, I know. I was like, I'm going to do this. I need to do this. Jaden: Ha Mm. As F. I love that. I'm gonna do that today. I'm gonna put something on my That's like December, isn't it? Feels far away and cold. But it's not. It's gonna be we're here for we know it and we'll be celebrating. Danielle: Something like that. It feels far away, but also it's not. I know. So that's my tip. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Jaden: Love it. Love it. Well with that Danielle: That's it. This has been wonderful. OK, bye. Jaden: Yay. I'll see you next time. Bye. Okay, Danielle: it.