Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / TENDER-HEART SINGER SONGWRITER 'MUTILATED' Walking Dog, Atlanta's Piedmont Park

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TENDER-HEART SINGER SONGWRITER 'MUTILATED' Walking Dog, Atlanta's Piedmont Park · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. How does a beautiful young woman,
0:18
Speaker 1: a singer songwriter working multiple jobs, go for a walk
0:23
Speaker 1: with her dog and end up brutally stabbed dead? Right now,
0:29
Speaker 1: no answers to the mystery surrounding the death of beautiful
0:34
Speaker 1: Katie Janis Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. I want you
0:51
Speaker 1: to hear part of what we have become privy to.
0:55
Speaker 1: This is part of the nine one one call. Take
1:00
Speaker 1: a listen to our cut one Tyler Rolette operator. What think? Yeah,
1:23
Speaker 1: we help? Please you get your name. We're going to
1:36
Speaker 1: play more of that nine on one call, but I
1:38
Speaker 1: wanted you to hear that first because a lot of
1:42
Speaker 1: aspersions have been thrown around about the roommate, the partner
1:48
Speaker 1: of Katie, Jennie finding the body. I don't go along
1:53
Speaker 1: with that. I think we need to be looking for
1:56
Speaker 1: the right person, the real killer. And you're gonna understand
2:01
Speaker 1: what I'm talking about in just one moment. In the
2:03
Speaker 1: middle of all this, there is talk of a so
2:05
Speaker 1: called serial killer. To muddy the waters. There is another
2:12
Speaker 1: young girl found dead about twenty miles away, also murdered
2:18
Speaker 1: in a public park the very same night. Are the
2:22
Speaker 1: two connected I say no. Let me introduce to you
2:25
Speaker 1: an all star panel to help break it down and
2:27
Speaker 1: put it back together again. First of all, an attorney
2:31
Speaker 1: you know him well, he practices all over the country.
2:33
Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen joining us, former prosecutor in this jurisdiction, now
2:37
Speaker 1: defense attorney. Renowned psychiatrists joining us out of Atlanta. Doctor ANGELA. Arnold,
2:44
Speaker 1: a specialist in not only this area, but many others.
2:48
Speaker 1: Also with me, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University. Joe Scott Morgan,
2:54
Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet and the star of
2:56
Speaker 1: a brand new series of Piketon Massacre on iHeart. Cheryl McCollum,
3:01
Speaker 1: and boy do we need a forensic expert? Founder director
3:04
Speaker 1: of the Coldcase Research Institute. You can find her at
3:07
Speaker 1: Coldcase Crimes dot org. But first to Michael Sidon Special
3:11
Speaker 1: guests joining us from WSBTV on Twitter. You can find
3:15
Speaker 1: him at sidon WSBT. Michael, A lot of people are
3:22
Speaker 1: throwing stones at the victim because she was out late
3:25
Speaker 1: that night walking her dog, Bowie. But the reality is,
3:30
Speaker 1: you know, Michael, when I was working in the DA's office,
3:33
Speaker 1: I lived about three blocks from this murder, and many
3:38
Speaker 1: a time I would work very late at the courthouse
3:41
Speaker 1: and then go out to jog or walk. Yeah, it
3:44
Speaker 1: sounds crazy now, but at the time I didn't think
3:47
Speaker 1: anything of it, and I don't like the victim being
3:51
Speaker 1: dragged through the mud. And I also want to point out,
3:53
Speaker 1: is it true, Michael Sidon that not only was Katie
3:56
Speaker 1: Janis brutally stab dead right there and Pete part but
4:01
Speaker 1: her dog was stamped too. Yeah, you know, Nancy, this
4:04
Speaker 1: is a expanous murder that we have going. And in fact,
4:08
Speaker 1: last week actually got a chance to speak with Katie
4:10
Speaker 1: Jenness's partner, Emma Clark, who made that gruesome discovery, and
4:15
Speaker 1: she even talked about how she's had to deal with
4:17
Speaker 1: it on social media and people pointing a finger possibly
4:21
Speaker 1: at her and also hearing the criticism. But you have
4:24
Speaker 1: to understands you you're familiar with this area, but for
4:26
Speaker 1: your listeners who aren't familiar with Atlanta, this is in
4:30
Speaker 1: the heart of the city, Piedmont Park. So this is
4:32
Speaker 1: if you live in the city, this is your green space.
4:34
Speaker 1: You don't have a big backyard, you can run around
4:37
Speaker 1: like somebody in the suburbs, So it's not unusual. You know.
4:40
Speaker 1: I've got a number of co workers who live near
4:42
Speaker 1: that park. They told me when they get off the
4:43
Speaker 1: work late at night, they go for walks. Obviously you
4:47
Speaker 1: stay vigilant, but this again is just so so brutal.
4:51
Speaker 1: And you talk about the injuries that were found at
4:55
Speaker 1: the scene. I mean, first you have forty year old
4:57
Speaker 1: Katie Jenness, she was left disfigured, and then the dog
5:00
Speaker 1: Bowie of phit bull as well, and just so so awful.
5:06
Speaker 1: And again, this has really shaken up that entire community.
5:09
Speaker 1: It's a very vibrant LGBTQ community. Oh on, just a
5:13
Speaker 1: moment right there. I want to talk to you about
5:15
Speaker 1: something you said she was less disfigured. But I want
5:18
Speaker 1: to go into the thinking of the crime, because that's
5:21
Speaker 1: how it's going to get solved. Who would take the
5:25
Speaker 1: time and be motivated to also stab the dog dead?
5:30
Speaker 1: That is actually Michael Sidon. Very very rare. This part
5:35
Speaker 1: is used by families with children. I have run this part,
5:39
Speaker 1: I guess Jackie have run this part a million times
5:42
Speaker 1: during the decade plus time I was at the District
5:46
Speaker 1: Attorney's office, and then before that with the fans, I
5:50
Speaker 1: would run that part two or three times a day.
5:53
Speaker 1: So it's not just her out with her dog. There
5:57
Speaker 1: as families out there. There's children out there. And not
6:00
Speaker 1: only that, it is directly adjacent to the single most
6:06
Speaker 1: exclusive country club in the city of Atlanta, the Piedmont
6:11
Speaker 1: Driving Club. So everybody needs to be on board with
6:16
Speaker 1: finding this gorgeous young woman's killer. Now my question to you,
6:22
Speaker 1: Michael Sign, you use the word disfigure it. Why did
6:26
Speaker 1: you say that when you have police coming out and
6:30
Speaker 1: basically calling this an unusual and unique crime that Atlanta
6:35
Speaker 1: has never experienced. Again, those are the words from the
6:38
Speaker 1: deputy chief at the Atlanta Police Department who has been
6:41
Speaker 1: working with the homicide detectives. Not to mention you bring
6:44
Speaker 1: in the FBI. As you know as a former prosecutor,
6:47
Speaker 1: you don't bring the FBI, and just for a city murder.
6:51
Speaker 1: This is something truly who done it? But this is
6:54
Speaker 1: something when they found the body, it was so gruesome,
6:59
Speaker 1: the and the injury that were left behind. Okay, I
7:03
Speaker 1: got you, Daryl Cohen joining me former prosecutor along with
7:07
Speaker 1: me in this jurisdiction where the body has been found.
7:11
Speaker 1: It's not that far from the courthouse. And as I said,
7:15
Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, I'm sure you're familiar with penn Avenue. I
7:19
Speaker 1: lived about three blocks or where Katie has been butchered,
7:23
Speaker 1: and my now husband lived about seven blocks from where
7:28
Speaker 1: Katie is butchered. And they're turning this, Daryl Cohen into
7:33
Speaker 1: she was jogging at night with her dog, So what
7:37
Speaker 1: if she was, that does not in any way indicate
7:40
Speaker 1: this as her fault. And Daryl another thing. I started
7:43
Speaker 1: getting floods of texts, Hey, Katie's case has been solved.
7:47
Speaker 1: It was the girlfriend. It's not the girlfriend. Wife found
7:53
Speaker 1: the body because she used the phone app whereas my iPhone,
7:58
Speaker 1: and it led her to the body. She is in
8:01
Speaker 1: no way implicated in this, Gerald Cohen, Let's talk about
8:05
Speaker 1: the fact that Michael signed WSBTV joining us today says
8:09
Speaker 1: that she was quote disfigured, and cops are saying they
8:12
Speaker 1: haven't seen anything like it. That tells me a lot
8:17
Speaker 1: about the gruesome factor of this murder. Well, Nancy, I'm
8:20
Speaker 1: very familiar. I actually went to Grady High as a
8:24
Speaker 1: student store alleged, and I'm very familiar with being my
8:28
Speaker 1: park area and grew up in Annesley Park, actually in
8:33
Speaker 1: Sherwood Forrest next to Annesley Park. But let me say
8:36
Speaker 1: that I think there are two separate issues that we have. No,
8:39
Speaker 1: she's a victim. It was not her partner, her roommate.
8:44
Speaker 1: It was her as a victim. But I think we
8:47
Speaker 1: also have to say there's not one, but two issues.
8:50
Speaker 1: The first issue is stay safe, stay safe, don't do
8:56
Speaker 1: dumb things. She obviously thought she had her dog who
8:59
Speaker 1: was pit bull, who would protect her, and she wasn't worried.
9:03
Speaker 1: But everybody needs to be concerned. What's a wonderful part
9:07
Speaker 1: during the day, during the daylight hours is not necessarily,
9:11
Speaker 1: as we have found out, a safe place to be.
9:14
Speaker 1: But this is the type of slashing. The amount of
9:17
Speaker 1: times that she was stabbed, it is something that we
9:21
Speaker 1: don't know. I personally believe it was somebody at random
9:25
Speaker 1: who was vicious, who was going to kill her, or
9:28
Speaker 1: maybe whoever happened to be there and had to kill
9:31
Speaker 1: the dog, because as we've been pointed out, it is
9:34
Speaker 1: a pitbull who probably would have attacked or tried to
9:38
Speaker 1: attack the killer. So there are all sorts of issues,
9:41
Speaker 1: and the fact that the FBI is there is a
9:43
Speaker 1: great thing, not a bad thing. You know, that's a
9:46
Speaker 1: really good point. You brought up, Darryl Cohen about killing
9:49
Speaker 1: the dog because it would be it would have attacked
9:51
Speaker 1: the killer crime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are
10:07
Speaker 1: talking about a beautiful young woman now dead, and what
10:12
Speaker 1: cops are saying is one of the single most gruesome
10:14
Speaker 1: scenes they've seen and that they quote have never seen
10:17
Speaker 1: anything like it. And I'm telling you right now, I
10:20
Speaker 1: have seen so many homicide crime scenes bodies at the morgue.
10:25
Speaker 1: For a cop to say this stabbing is unlike anything
10:28
Speaker 1: we've seen, it must be really bad. I plays you
10:32
Speaker 1: part of the original nine one one call. Let's take
10:34
Speaker 1: a listen to more from that. When I kick off
10:37
Speaker 1: a jury try, one of the first things I try
10:38
Speaker 1: to do is play the nine one one call because
10:41
Speaker 1: it takes you to the scene, to the time of
10:43
Speaker 1: the murder, and you can learn so much. So, Tyler,
10:47
Speaker 1: let's roll our cut two and listen to more of
10:50
Speaker 1: that nine one one call. What I please like yeah,
11:19
Speaker 1: all right? Please? Oh my god. It seems like she
11:23
Speaker 1: said dead like radio okay please. You can hear the
11:32
Speaker 1: distress in her voice, the pain and the suffering and
11:35
Speaker 1: the shock of finding Katie Janis stabbed dead and what
11:39
Speaker 1: we believe to have been a horrible and brutal crime scene.
11:44
Speaker 1: I want to point out something that has just happened
11:47
Speaker 1: in the last hours. We learned that. I hope you're
11:50
Speaker 1: sitting down for this. You may need to lay down.
11:53
Speaker 1: The cameras in the park were installed according to my
11:58
Speaker 1: research in two thousand and eight wait for it, and
12:05
Speaker 1: are now out of mode. Nobody can pull up the
12:09
Speaker 1: pictures or the video on the cameras because it doesn't
12:12
Speaker 1: synk with modern day technology. What the HBL has the
12:19
Speaker 1: government been thinking about the city of Atlanta. They did
12:23
Speaker 1: an assessment in about twenty seventeen. They knew the cameras
12:26
Speaker 1: were not working. Therefore, we have no video of what happened.
12:31
Speaker 1: No steel shots. Now that's bad enough. But we do have, however,
12:36
Speaker 1: and I've looked at them very very carefully. Are steel
12:40
Speaker 1: shots of the red light right there near where Katie's
12:44
Speaker 1: body was found at the entrance of Piedmont Park and
12:49
Speaker 1: right now several I think witnesses have been identified. Michael
12:55
Speaker 1: Siden joining me from WSBTV. I made a little flow
12:57
Speaker 1: chart the witness says, I believe potential witnesses, and I've
13:03
Speaker 1: ruled out almost all of them. One a group of
13:06
Speaker 1: women around eleven fifty five PM. It's not a group
13:09
Speaker 1: of women that doesn't fit into any statistical analysis as
13:14
Speaker 1: to who the method and assessment of homicide. It's not them.
13:17
Speaker 1: Twelve o nine. We actually see Katie Janis walking her
13:21
Speaker 1: dog Bowie across that intersection at Tip Street. Twelve twenty five.
13:26
Speaker 1: A man with a cane looking at his phone, hobbling away.
13:30
Speaker 1: It's not him. Twelve forty three. I've got this one starred.
13:34
Speaker 1: You see a person with a hoodie walking away potential
13:39
Speaker 1: twelve forty six. You see a jogger going in and
13:43
Speaker 1: out in a blue jogging suit, and I believe he
13:47
Speaker 1: has come forward and spoken to police. Seemingly, all of
13:51
Speaker 1: these people seem to be unaware they're walking by a
13:55
Speaker 1: murder scene. To him, Michael Sidon, the reality is all
13:59
Speaker 1: the camera us in the park are outdated, they don't work,
14:03
Speaker 1: and this is just one entrance to an open park.
14:07
Speaker 1: I never went through the entrance when I would run there,
14:09
Speaker 1: I'd just be walking along the street, get on the
14:12
Speaker 1: sidewalk and walk in. There's not a fence around it.
14:14
Speaker 1: So this red light video it's not really helping me.
14:18
Speaker 1: What's so frustrating for the family and friends of this victim. Right,
14:22
Speaker 1: you mentioned nine cameras inside Piedmont Park. They have not
14:27
Speaker 1: been working since two thousand and eight. They're not integrated
14:31
Speaker 1: on the city system. Now it may come as a
14:33
Speaker 1: surprise to some people, but most of the parks in
14:36
Speaker 1: Atlanta don't have cameras, and this is something now that
14:40
Speaker 1: the city is pushing for. But obviously it's too late.
14:43
Speaker 1: And you can imagine, you know what, Michael Side and
14:45
Speaker 1: I know you're just the messenger and we don't use
14:49
Speaker 1: this word at home, but just shut up. Okay, no offense.
14:52
Speaker 1: But now they want to add cameras. Are you serious?
14:57
Speaker 1: Now that Kay has been butchered up like she's at
15:00
Speaker 1: the butcher's shop, now they want to add cameras, Michael Sidon,
15:04
Speaker 1: Isn't it true? An assessment was done in twenty seventeen
15:08
Speaker 1: on the cameras the city knew they weren't working. Isn't
15:11
Speaker 1: that true? It's true. They did the assessment in twenty seventeen,
15:14
Speaker 1: and even to this moment right now, Nancy, the city
15:17
Speaker 1: still has not come on the record and said that
15:19
Speaker 1: the cameras didn't record, but everybody knows that they didn't.
15:23
Speaker 1: They claimed that they're reaching out to the vendors to
15:25
Speaker 1: see if they were rolling. But again, there has been
15:29
Speaker 1: no video evidence, no still photos, nothing that shows that
15:33
Speaker 1: any of the cameras were working. It's an obsolete technology.
15:37
Speaker 1: The cameras were not working on the night of Michael.
15:40
Speaker 1: Not that it's going to help me solve this case,
15:42
Speaker 1: but who can we fire over this in a public
15:46
Speaker 1: park where there are families, children, single ladies out there
15:52
Speaker 1: jogging and walking. I've been one of them, and they
15:55
Speaker 1: don't have us protected. Why am I paying taxes to
15:58
Speaker 1: these people? Why if they can't even make the camera's
16:02
Speaker 1: work for Pete's sake. Now back to the little bit
16:05
Speaker 1: of video that we have from that red light. You've
16:07
Speaker 1: got about a handful of witnesses. There's only one that
16:13
Speaker 1: even remotely seems like a possibility. And I'm going to
16:16
Speaker 1: go to you on that, joining me at Cheryl McCallum,
16:19
Speaker 1: director founder of the Cold Case Research Institute, Jump in, Cheryl, Nancy.
16:23
Speaker 1: There's so much here that law enforcement has got to
16:27
Speaker 1: look at. The timeline obviously is imperative. You and I.
16:31
Speaker 1: That's where we would have started. That's where you narrow down.
16:35
Speaker 1: You know, who could have attacked this woman and killed
16:38
Speaker 1: her in that amount of time. You got to close
16:41
Speaker 1: that window and get as close as you can the
16:44
Speaker 1: witnesses that are coming forward. That's fabulous. So they're going
16:48
Speaker 1: to gain information from them, Cheryl. No, they're not. No,
16:51
Speaker 1: they're not. I mean, I'm just telling you like it is.
16:53
Speaker 1: These people. You can look at the pictures, Cheryl, except
16:56
Speaker 1: for that guy. I think it's a guy in a
16:58
Speaker 1: hoodie because I can't see his anner. They are just
17:02
Speaker 1: walking out. They have no idea they're walking by a
17:04
Speaker 1: crime scene. Is They're not going to be of any help.
17:06
Speaker 1: Not these anyway, They didn't even know they walk by
17:08
Speaker 1: a dead woman. Well, let me give you an example.
17:11
Speaker 1: We know right now that no one has come forward
17:14
Speaker 1: reporting screams. That does help us. If you were writing
17:18
Speaker 1: close proximity and you heard nothing and you saw nothing,
17:21
Speaker 1: that could be helpful for us to determine when she
17:25
Speaker 1: was actually murdered. So again, the dog is gonna give
17:29
Speaker 1: us information. They're going to swab that dog's mouth and
17:33
Speaker 1: tom they're going to look for scrapings on It's called
17:36
Speaker 1: a smart Cheryl, by the way, very smart about swabbing
17:39
Speaker 1: the dog's mouth in case maybe he bit the perk
17:42
Speaker 1: go ahead, yes, because what you want to know is
17:44
Speaker 1: it was that dog able to attack this perpetrator, because
17:48
Speaker 1: again I believe the dog was killed first because the
17:51
Speaker 1: dog is about fifty feet from the victim. So I
17:54
Speaker 1: think possibly the person grabbed the leash killed the dog.
17:58
Speaker 1: Katie might have started to run they attacked her. I
18:01
Speaker 1: think this was quicker than people think, but there might
18:05
Speaker 1: be fabulous evidence on both victims. Hey, Michael Sidon WSBTV
18:11
Speaker 1: joining us out of Atlanta, was there any indication that
18:14
Speaker 1: there was a rape or attempted rape on Katie? Yeah,
18:17
Speaker 1: that's that's probably a better question for investigators. What I
18:20
Speaker 1: will tell you this, and we have not gotten this
18:22
Speaker 1: confirmed by investigators, but the father of Emma Clark, so
18:26
Speaker 1: the victim's essential father in law, said that he was
18:30
Speaker 1: told by investigators that the dog has DNA in its mouth.
18:34
Speaker 1: But again, it appears that the dog was protecting its
18:37
Speaker 1: owner during this attack. Do you know anything about whether
18:40
Speaker 1: there was an attempted rape? Michael Sidon, No, I had
18:42
Speaker 1: no information on that. And the reason I'm asking is
18:46
Speaker 1: because the next thing you want to do is going
18:48
Speaker 1: to list of rapists in the area, sex offenders in
18:51
Speaker 1: the area. Anybody that's been arrested for a or sex
18:54
Speaker 1: assault and then has been add on bond, that's the
18:57
Speaker 1: first thing you want to do if there has been
18:59
Speaker 1: an attempted but we don't know that. But what you're saying,
19:02
Speaker 1: Michael Seiden fixen perfectly with Cheryl mccallums scenario that the
19:07
Speaker 1: dog was killed first found about fifty feet away from
19:10
Speaker 1: the victim. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are
19:27
Speaker 1: talking about a case that has rocked a community in Atlanta.
19:32
Speaker 1: At the heart of the city of Atlanta, Piedmont Park,
19:36
Speaker 1: Katie Janie found brutally stad as was her dog Bowie,
19:42
Speaker 1: which is a whole another mental factor in her murder. Guys,
19:49
Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen now to our
19:51
Speaker 1: friends at eleven Alive, Ira Cut four. Atlanta Police are
19:55
Speaker 1: asking you to take a close look at this picture
19:58
Speaker 1: of Catherine John's She was last scene walking her dog
20:01
Speaker 1: late last night near Piedmont Park in Midtown. We're just
20:04
Speaker 1: asking any any one if they saw her anything, to
20:08
Speaker 1: call nine one. One called Prime Stoffers. Shortly after one
20:11
Speaker 1: o'clock this morning, she was found brutally stabbed to death
20:14
Speaker 1: inside Peedemont Park. Her dog was also killed. Obviously, I'm
20:19
Speaker 1: extremely saddened, shaken up. I mean being in the same
20:22
Speaker 1: age range, living in the same area, also having a dog.
20:25
Speaker 1: Several joggers today telling me they're on edge and one answer.
20:29
Speaker 1: I really hope that to find the person in any
20:32
Speaker 1: you know, figure out security around the area. All of
20:34
Speaker 1: us would like to know is this a random act?
20:36
Speaker 1: Was there you know as someone targeted. I mean, it
20:38
Speaker 1: would just help for this for us to have peace
20:40
Speaker 1: of mind and have an idea of the threat level
20:43
Speaker 1: and the safety. You were just hearing, not our friends
20:46
Speaker 1: at lettin a Lie, but I think Tyler played our
20:48
Speaker 1: friends at CBS forty six. You know, we're talking about
20:53
Speaker 1: the people in the neighborhood in fear because they're afraid
20:57
Speaker 1: to walk out their door. Peedmont Park is huge and
21:01
Speaker 1: many many apartments, businesses, restaurants, condos, a high school. You
21:07
Speaker 1: heard Darryll Cohen discussing earlier is right there on the
21:10
Speaker 1: edge of the park. Think about Central Park in New
21:13
Speaker 1: York or a big park in your area. That is
21:16
Speaker 1: what Piedmont Park is like for Atlanta's right now, still
21:21
Speaker 1: no leads in the murder of Katie Janis, and not
21:24
Speaker 1: only that we're getting distressing news that the cameras in
21:27
Speaker 1: the park don't work. Now to further muddy the waters,
21:32
Speaker 1: where you're learning that another young woman was murdered the
21:35
Speaker 1: same night, the same time frame in a public park.
21:40
Speaker 1: I'm talking about Tory Lane, eighteen years old, a twenty
21:45
Speaker 1: twenty one honor graduate headed to college. Now, let me
21:49
Speaker 1: understand this out to you, Michael Sidon joining us from WSBTV.
21:53
Speaker 1: That was about twenty miles away at Yellow River Park
21:57
Speaker 1: in Gwinette County. I don't see the connect and she
22:01
Speaker 1: was stabbed dead. It's clearly and this is the place
22:03
Speaker 1: working theory someone that knew her, because they took the
22:06
Speaker 1: time to stage the scene. Her car, which was that
22:09
Speaker 1: beat up twenty twelve Nissan Versa, was found about five
22:14
Speaker 1: miles away from the body, burned out. Somebody took her
22:19
Speaker 1: car away and burn it. Plus the m O monasaw
22:22
Speaker 1: friendI method of operations, she was shot dead. I don't
22:26
Speaker 1: see that these are other than the same night in
22:30
Speaker 1: a park. I don't see that they're connected. Michael. Yeah,
22:33
Speaker 1: And that's the big thing is that initially that's where
22:35
Speaker 1: people got the whole serial killer dartive from I don't
22:38
Speaker 1: see it either, Nancy. I mean again, you're talking Piedmont Park,
22:42
Speaker 1: which is right in the heart of midtown Atlanta, and
22:43
Speaker 1: then you're talking about Gwynette County, a completely different suburb
22:47
Speaker 1: of metro Atlanta. This also a hainous, heinous crime. But
22:51
Speaker 1: this is an eighteen year old woman in honors graduates
22:55
Speaker 1: sound shot to death for card burned out. Obviously, this
22:58
Speaker 1: is a murder mystery as well, But drawing the connection
23:02
Speaker 1: of the two, I don't see it either. The working
23:04
Speaker 1: theory there is that Tory was shot by someone she knows,
23:09
Speaker 1: because that someone, unlike a random killer, took the time
23:13
Speaker 1: to stage the scene, hiding the car in a very
23:16
Speaker 1: remote wooded area and burning it. Joining me now is
23:20
Speaker 1: death investigator Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State, author
23:25
Speaker 1: of Blood Beneath My Feet and Star Pike and Massacre
23:29
Speaker 1: to you just got Morgan way in, Yeah, I tell you, Nancy,
23:33
Speaker 1: you know, looking at this case, one of the words
23:37
Speaker 1: that's being used is not only stabbing, police are also
23:41
Speaker 1: using the term mutilated, and then goes to a completely
23:45
Speaker 1: different level. When you talk about a homicide in a
23:47
Speaker 1: case like this, stabbing is one thing, it can be
23:50
Speaker 1: rather quick, you can stab somebody multiple times. But from
23:54
Speaker 1: what I understand, the events that surround her death, and
23:59
Speaker 1: that can addition in which her body was found, would
24:03
Speaker 1: give me pause to think that this individual spent some
24:06
Speaker 1: time with Katie's body to the degree that it was
24:10
Speaker 1: in fact mutilated, and you really need to let that
24:13
Speaker 1: word resonate. I think strongly here the person that did this,
24:18
Speaker 1: in my opinion, at least was familiar with this area.
24:23
Speaker 1: This was right at the point of access to the
24:26
Speaker 1: entrance to the park, as you had mentioned just a
24:29
Speaker 1: moment ago. I think what Cheryl had mentioned also was
24:32
Speaker 1: key relative to the forensic evidence that will be found
24:37
Speaker 1: on this dog. Another thing that the police will be
24:40
Speaker 1: looking for that is going to stand out like a
24:43
Speaker 1: sore thumb is the fact that whoever engaged in this
24:47
Speaker 1: probably has injuries. If that dog and this is a pitbull,
24:51
Speaker 1: they left marks on this individual. So when they're out,
24:55
Speaker 1: when the police are out canvassing talking to folks, it
24:58
Speaker 1: could be somebody that got to we're into by this dog.
25:02
Speaker 1: You see these images of Katie laying on the bed
25:04
Speaker 1: with a dog, you can see that they had a
25:06
Speaker 1: very loving relationship. This dog's probably very protective of her,
25:10
Speaker 1: but you know the dog didn't stand a chance as
25:13
Speaker 1: Katie didn't. Back to your point about if there was
25:17
Speaker 1: evidence of a rape, well, I don't necessarily know that
25:21
Speaker 1: there was evidence of rape. I can tell you at
25:22
Speaker 1: the medical Examiner's office in a case like this, they're
25:24
Speaker 1: going to be doing a rape kit. That means I
25:27
Speaker 1: won't go into graphic detail here, but they will swab
25:30
Speaker 1: specific areas of the body. And look, Joe Scott, I'm
25:34
Speaker 1: not worried if you say something like pelvic exam or
25:38
Speaker 1: vagina or anas. We're talking about a murder. All those
25:44
Speaker 1: niceties don't matter now. So the fact that they're going
25:48
Speaker 1: to do basically every woman Jack, I'm sure you've had
25:50
Speaker 1: a pelvic exam. I assume it's not fun, but we've
25:53
Speaker 1: all done it. We've all had children, Jesscot, So alldentity
25:58
Speaker 1: is gone like a pelvic exam on a dead body.
26:02
Speaker 1: That's what a rape kid is. Except also, the medical
26:07
Speaker 1: examiner will take a very fine comb unlike one you've
26:11
Speaker 1: ever used on your hair, and comb through pubic hair,
26:17
Speaker 1: look at the entire body, I guess under a microscope.
26:20
Speaker 1: That's the only way I can say it for any hair,
26:22
Speaker 1: for epiphilial skin cells, you can't see it, but it
26:26
Speaker 1: will be tested. I pray to God they will. Exactly
26:31
Speaker 1: how do they do it? Joe Scott Morgan, You've got
26:34
Speaker 1: to do a pelvic but you've got to look for semen. Yeah,
26:38
Speaker 1: you're going to be looking for sperm, and you want
26:41
Speaker 1: to see, for instance, with semen, you want to know
26:43
Speaker 1: if there's any motility to the semen. What that means.
26:46
Speaker 1: If you please stop talking like that, Okay, motility, you
26:49
Speaker 1: gotta I gotta dummy down everything you say. With the ejaculate,
26:53
Speaker 1: you want to see if the sperm or alive or dead.
26:56
Speaker 1: That narrows down your field. And then also stop, stop
27:00
Speaker 1: it narrows down your field? What are you trying to say? Well,
27:05
Speaker 1: what I'm trying to say, Nancy, is that if the
27:07
Speaker 1: individual that ejaculated had living sperm or dead sperm. If
27:12
Speaker 1: they have dead sperm, that means that they are no
27:14
Speaker 1: longer fertile, they cannot reproduce, and there's a certain segment
27:18
Speaker 1: of the population that you automatically narrow down with that. Now,
27:22
Speaker 1: if you have sperm, if you have semen, you can
27:25
Speaker 1: also do DNA. One other thing they're going to do here.
27:28
Speaker 1: You had mentioned you can't get DNA from ejaculate. There
27:32
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be sperm. No, you can, and you
27:35
Speaker 1: can in fact get DNA from ejaculated doesn't necessarily have
27:39
Speaker 1: to be sperm. It would be ideal to have the sperm.
27:42
Speaker 1: Another thing that you pose, just so folks understand. If
27:45
Speaker 1: you've got school aged children, there's there have been kids
27:49
Speaker 1: that have lice. For instance, you have to use one
27:51
Speaker 1: of the fine combs for the lice. That's what we
27:53
Speaker 1: use in the board, essentially to look for the hair. Also,
27:56
Speaker 1: they're going to do nail scrapings. They'll climp, they will
28:00
Speaker 1: her nails, look underneath the nails from dead skin cells,
28:03
Speaker 1: this sort of thing, and any kind of attempts she
28:06
Speaker 1: may have bitten this guy for where all we know
28:07
Speaker 1: is well to try to get him off of her.
28:10
Speaker 1: One other sexual component to this Nancy. It doesn't necessarily
28:14
Speaker 1: have to be a rape, but from what I'm hearing,
28:17
Speaker 1: From what I'm hearing, if her clothinginess disrupted. Some of
28:20
Speaker 1: these individuals get pleasure out of seeing pain. And if
28:24
Speaker 1: you inflict pain on areas that are say like the vagina,
28:30
Speaker 1: her backside or maybe even her breast. If they're disfigured
28:33
Speaker 1: in any way, that could be an indication of sex
28:37
Speaker 1: or mouth that can be an indication of sexual or
28:40
Speaker 1: a sexual predator, a sadistic sexual predator. You know what,
28:44
Speaker 1: I was giving you a little bit of hubl, but
28:46
Speaker 1: you or just a fountain of incredible information time stories
29:04
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Guys, we're talking about how to solve
29:09
Speaker 1: a murder, a brutal murder, unlike anything the city of Atlanta.
29:13
Speaker 1: We've got a very high crime rate in the city
29:15
Speaker 1: of Atlanta, and when you say this is unlike anything
29:18
Speaker 1: I've ever seen before, that's comparing to a lot of cases,
29:22
Speaker 1: which makes us even more disturbing. As Jessica Morgan said,
29:27
Speaker 1: this woman, Katie Janis, was quote mutilated. Okay, Cheryl, sorry,
29:32
Speaker 1: go ahead, Dear Nancy. The park was dark where she
29:35
Speaker 1: was found, So if she had been stabbed in the
29:37
Speaker 1: back of the chest and was just laying on the ground,
29:40
Speaker 1: the witness on the nine one one call, when her
29:44
Speaker 1: wife girlfriend was making the call, would not have had
29:48
Speaker 1: the reaction that they had. You can hear that person
29:52
Speaker 1: flip out. Now, that tells you something is horribly wrong.
29:57
Speaker 1: Because in the dark. You wouldn't even see that much
30:00
Speaker 1: from a stabbing from veteran people. Saying that it was
30:03
Speaker 1: grotesque tells you the manner in which this victim was left.
30:09
Speaker 1: Now keep in mind, this killer did all of these
30:12
Speaker 1: gruesome things to this victim, but left her in the
30:14
Speaker 1: wide open, left the dog in the wide open. That
30:18
Speaker 1: should tell you that it was a blitz attack. It
30:20
Speaker 1: was very quick, so again to me, I agree with
30:24
Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, but I would call this person a
30:26
Speaker 1: lust killer. And if this person had any necrophilia in
30:30
Speaker 1: that scene, it doesn't necessarily have to be on her
30:34
Speaker 1: body either. Another thing, sharl McCall, let me go through
30:36
Speaker 1: this theory with you. I do not believe it was
30:38
Speaker 1: anybody that knew her or as close to her, because
30:42
Speaker 1: they would have done it in secret. They knew where
30:45
Speaker 1: she was, they knew where she lived, they knew where
30:47
Speaker 1: she worked. They could have done it anywhere, not out
30:50
Speaker 1: in the open and leaving the body out in the open,
30:52
Speaker 1: which tells me, just based statistically on what I know,
30:56
Speaker 1: is a random killing. I mean, when you want to
30:59
Speaker 1: kill somebody you know, you kill them in their home
31:02
Speaker 1: and secret. What CHUMPI and go I gotta say if
31:05
Speaker 1: that's the case. If that's the case, then what you've
31:07
Speaker 1: got is a raving maniac out there. People absolutely need
31:12
Speaker 1: to be terrified at this point because if there's an
31:16
Speaker 1: individual that is out there of that's a total stranger
31:19
Speaker 1: that's capable of inflicting this level of trauma to this
31:25
Speaker 1: young woman, they'll do it to anybody, anybody. And to
31:29
Speaker 1: Max's point, I think there's a potential because of what
31:33
Speaker 1: the police are saying. Her body very well may have
31:35
Speaker 1: been posed. She was left out in the open so
31:38
Speaker 1: everybody could see this. She talked about the reaction that
31:41
Speaker 1: the individuals have. I would be scared out of my
31:44
Speaker 1: wits if I was living in that. To you, Michael Sidon,
31:47
Speaker 1: I want to follow up. I want Joe Scott Morgan
31:49
Speaker 1: and Searl McCollum are saying. You know, between the two
31:52
Speaker 1: of them, they have so much friends experience. So why
31:56
Speaker 1: isn't Michael Sidon and the mayor is saying, oh, it's
31:59
Speaker 1: not a serial killer, We're gonna solve it. Why are
32:02
Speaker 1: they down playing this? I think, you know, I think
32:05
Speaker 1: they don't want to inflict, you know, all this terror
32:09
Speaker 1: and fear and chaos. But I mean that's what we're
32:11
Speaker 1: hearing from our viewers in Atlanta. That's what we're hearing
32:14
Speaker 1: from people in the community. They are nervous, and in fact,
32:17
Speaker 1: this over the weekend. They just had a big festival
32:19
Speaker 1: there and we interview people telling us, hey, I thought
32:22
Speaker 1: about I thought twice about coming out to the park now,
32:24
Speaker 1: I will say um following a press conference with the
32:27
Speaker 1: city and the mayor, District Attorney's Office FBI US Attorney's Office,
32:32
Speaker 1: they did hold a press conference and said, if you're
32:34
Speaker 1: going to be there at night, you better be traveling
32:37
Speaker 1: with a group and don't be there by yourself. Yeah.
32:39
Speaker 1: I heard that from FAWNI the new district attorney is
32:43
Speaker 1: doing a really great job on this, but I haven't
32:46
Speaker 1: heard it from the elected officials. And we've been we've
32:49
Speaker 1: been asking that question, you know, we've we've been we've
32:51
Speaker 1: been posing that question. And you know at this point
32:55
Speaker 1: is they're keeping everything close to the vest, the homicide detectives.
32:58
Speaker 1: But as you guys bring up these potential theories that
33:02
Speaker 1: could prove true, I think it's a valid question. Are
33:05
Speaker 1: people safe to go to the park? Guys, hold on
33:07
Speaker 1: just one one. I want to bring in a renowned psychiatrists.
33:10
Speaker 1: Joining us today, Doctor Angela Arnold. But first and Tyler,
33:13
Speaker 1: I need you to play our cut seven. Tyler. It
33:18
Speaker 1: is Zach Somers joining us from CBS our cut number seven, Tyler.
33:24
Speaker 1: Atlanta Police were called to the park in Midtown around
33:26
Speaker 1: one am and found the body of Katherine Janes. Police
33:29
Speaker 1: say the forty year old had been stabbed multiple times.
33:32
Speaker 1: Her dog was also killed. One of the last known
33:35
Speaker 1: sightings of the two was near tenth and Piedmont. It's
33:38
Speaker 1: not surprising that she would have been out. Clayton Skinner
33:41
Speaker 1: was a regular customer of Janesis. She was a bartender
33:44
Speaker 1: and campanola. Skinner says most people who knew her called
33:47
Speaker 1: her Katie. She was a genuinely shy, sweet kind person. Skinner,
33:52
Speaker 1: who also lives in Midtown, says he often saw Janice
33:54
Speaker 1: walking her dog in the neighborhood. She routinely walked her
33:58
Speaker 1: dog later at night because she took worked. Sure, I'm
34:02
Speaker 1: going to go to you on this, Doctor Angela Arnold,
34:03
Speaker 1: and everybody else jump in after, because this is a
34:06
Speaker 1: whole other facet. The victim in this case was a
34:11
Speaker 1: singer songwriter, very tenderhearted, very sensitive person. She also worked
34:19
Speaker 1: part time as a bartender, and a lot of aspersions
34:23
Speaker 1: have also been cast on her because she worked as
34:25
Speaker 1: a bartender. And I would like to point out that
34:27
Speaker 1: I'm very proud of my niece who graduated with honors
34:31
Speaker 1: from Stanford, but for a while she worked part time
34:35
Speaker 1: as a bartender. You know, I don't like the way
34:39
Speaker 1: she's being crucified, Doctor Angela Arnold, but it does in
34:43
Speaker 1: one way. It is critical. It is important because who
34:46
Speaker 1: knows who could have seen her, gotten a crush on her,
34:49
Speaker 1: followed her from that bar where she worked, and it
34:53
Speaker 1: also explains why she was out so late at night.
34:55
Speaker 1: She's been as sailed for that too, because she worked
34:58
Speaker 1: late at night and got off and went out to
35:00
Speaker 1: walk her dog. She's just really taken a lot of hits,
35:03
Speaker 1: doctor Angie. I agree with you, Nancy. And people don't
35:07
Speaker 1: understand what this area is like. It's got such a
35:11
Speaker 1: neighborhood feel to it, and the tavern where she worked,
35:17
Speaker 1: it's all full of regulars, Nancy, so everybody knows each
35:22
Speaker 1: other there. Wait, what tavern was it? Henry Tavern on
35:25
Speaker 1: Temph Street? Right, Yeah, basically down the street, maybe a
35:30
Speaker 1: block away from where this happened. Okay, So, Nancy, another
35:34
Speaker 1: thing that I wanted to point out. Also, there's been
35:36
Speaker 1: a lot of talk about this is the most unusual
35:39
Speaker 1: crime that anybody's ever seen. The police have never seen
35:42
Speaker 1: anything like this. Well what does that mean, Nancy? That
35:45
Speaker 1: means that we're all not walking around living in fear
35:49
Speaker 1: that somebody's going to mutilate us if we take our
35:51
Speaker 1: dog out. Because I believe, as a psychiatrist, I believe
35:57
Speaker 1: that we cannot constantly live of in fear. We're We're
36:02
Speaker 1: being made to fear everything right now. So at some
36:06
Speaker 1: point you have to let go. I'm not saying that
36:09
Speaker 1: we shouldn't be safe, but she didn't think that she
36:12
Speaker 1: was being unsafe. She took her pit bull out to
36:16
Speaker 1: let him relieve himself. And I'm going to tell you something, Nancy.
36:21
Speaker 1: I live two blocks from where this happened. Okay, Nancy,
36:26
Speaker 1: we don't feel unsafe in our neighborhood. We love where
36:30
Speaker 1: we live. We love Midtown and that is the exact
36:33
Speaker 1: same way that the people that live over back to
36:35
Speaker 1: Mont Park feel. We live here for a reason. And
36:38
Speaker 1: so I don't know this this business of blaming her
36:42
Speaker 1: and blaming her fiance and all of this. I think
36:45
Speaker 1: this is coming from a place of ignorance on a
36:49
Speaker 1: lot of people's part because they don't understand the neighborhood
36:52
Speaker 1: in which we live. Well. I think it's something else,
36:56
Speaker 1: Dodger Angie. I believe people like too. I believe there's
36:59
Speaker 1: no other component. I think people like to attack the
37:01
Speaker 1: victim and what he may have done because it makes
37:05
Speaker 1: them feel safe. Oh, she was out with their dog
37:08
Speaker 1: late at night. I would never do that. Translation, I'm safe.
37:12
Speaker 1: I don't have to worry about this. That's what I
37:14
Speaker 1: think a lot of people do. You know. I want
37:16
Speaker 1: to analyze what we know. Cheryl McCullum and joining me
37:19
Speaker 1: also special guests joining us from WSBTV Guys. I'm very
37:26
Speaker 1: concerned about the way she's being portrayed, Michael Sidon. But
37:30
Speaker 1: what other forensic evidence, because you know, her reputation is
37:34
Speaker 1: taking a hit for no reason. But that's not going
37:37
Speaker 1: to be pertinent at trial. What it's going to be
37:39
Speaker 1: pertinent at trial when this person, it's a man, I
37:42
Speaker 1: can guarantee you that is caught. It's going to be
37:44
Speaker 1: about the cold heart evidence. Is there anything you haven't
37:48
Speaker 1: told us? Michael? I think we hit on just about everything. Again,
37:51
Speaker 1: I think I don't want to keep bringing up the
37:54
Speaker 1: boar tender thing, but I do think it is key
37:56
Speaker 1: in this because people who knew her in the neighborhood,
37:59
Speaker 1: whether it be friends, family, or complete strangers, always talked
38:02
Speaker 1: about how she was the wife of the party. When
38:04
Speaker 1: you'd walk into the restaurants she worked at, everybody knew her.
38:07
Speaker 1: And I think that's extremely important because while she may
38:10
Speaker 1: not have known everybody, all these people went to the bar,
38:13
Speaker 1: they had conversations with her. She had She was always
38:16
Speaker 1: the type having a good time, and that could play key.
38:18
Speaker 1: And who the suspect is, Like you mentioned, I think, Nancy,
38:21
Speaker 1: that it could have been some sicko who was sitting
38:23
Speaker 1: in the corner that had this fantasy, right, but which
38:26
Speaker 1: also makes it not random. And I yes, you're right, Michael,
38:32
Speaker 1: of course you're right. WSBTV joining us Sean McCollum jump in, Nancy.
38:36
Speaker 1: We know from the camera footage police already knew she
38:39
Speaker 1: wasn't followed. You can see her in the cross falls.
38:42
Speaker 1: She's by herself. Boy, they would have picked somebody up already.
38:46
Speaker 1: Second thing, her cell phone is going to be imperative.
38:50
Speaker 1: When did somebody start calling her, when were they taxted her?
38:53
Speaker 1: And when, according to the GPS on that phone, did
38:56
Speaker 1: that dot stop moving. They're going to know that in
38:59
Speaker 1: real time. They're also going to concentrate on post mortem injuries,
39:04
Speaker 1: what was done to her after she was dead. And
39:08
Speaker 1: let me just say this, and doctor Angie can jump in,
39:12
Speaker 1: but you and I and Nancy have worked a thousand
39:14
Speaker 1: cases where the family at the scene cannot accept what's happened.
39:19
Speaker 1: They you know, they beg you know, please keep doing CPR,
39:22
Speaker 1: Please gear to Grady, please save her. Her wife accepted
39:27
Speaker 1: that she was dead on the nine one one call.
39:30
Speaker 1: That tells you the manner in which that victim was left.
39:35
Speaker 1: As always, brilliant guys, if you know or even think
39:39
Speaker 1: you know anything about the death of this beautiful young woman,
39:43
Speaker 1: please dial Atlanta Homicide four zero four or five four
39:48
Speaker 1: six forty two thirty five repeat four zero four five
39:53
Speaker 1: four six four two three five. We wait as justice
39:58
Speaker 1: and falls. Yancy great son in law, A goodbye friend.