Latest / DA CREW Podcast / DA CREW PODCAST SEASON 2 | BASIC BLAQUE AFTER DARK| HOST BLAQUE DIAMOND

Transcript

DA CREW PODCAST SEASON 2 | BASIC BLAQUE AFTER DARK| HOST BLAQUE DIAMOND · DA CREW Podcast

2:25
Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, this is Black Diamond from the Crew Network
2:28
Speaker 1: and you're listening to Basic Black After Dark podcasts to
2:31
Speaker 1: show that meets you where you are and give you
2:33
Speaker 1: what you ask for. This has been a special month
2:37
Speaker 1: coming in for me. We are celebrating National Adoption Month.
2:41
Speaker 1: It's such a meaningful time to highlight the importance of
2:44
Speaker 1: building families through adoption. Adoption is a legal process that
2:48
Speaker 1: allows someone to become the parent of a child, even
2:52
Speaker 1: though the parent and child may not be related by blood,
2:55
Speaker 1: but in every other way, adopted parents are the child's parents.
2:59
Speaker 1: I am pleased that we are celebrating National Adoption Month
3:02
Speaker 1: and connecting with advocates from India. We are live with
3:06
Speaker 1: India with unique challenges and perspectives on adoption. Please welcome
3:12
Speaker 1: my guests lash Me, Mena and Movie knock On. Thank
3:19
Speaker 1: you Black Hello, Thanks Hi. How are you doing.
3:28
Speaker 2: Doing good? Feeling good? Thank you for having me, No,
3:32
Speaker 2: thank you, thank you for joining me.
3:35
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Black oh Man.
3:38
Speaker 1: We've been working on trying to get this together for
3:40
Speaker 1: the longest. We've been talking for years and as advocates
3:45
Speaker 1: in India, can you share some of the unique challenges
3:47
Speaker 1: and cultural perspectives surround an adoption that you encounter in
3:51
Speaker 1: your work.
3:55
Speaker 2: I can start by answering that question. Uh, you know,
4:00
Speaker 2: the biggest challenge that we face is adoption itself, Like
4:06
Speaker 2: in the sense that you know, fifteen twenty years ago,
4:11
Speaker 2: adoption was not as popular as it is now. So
4:17
Speaker 2: a lot of children that are available, but not many
4:20
Speaker 2: families that are available to be taken into. But you know,
4:25
Speaker 2: fast forward to twenty twenty four. Now the situation is
4:30
Speaker 2: a bit different. There are children available, and there are
4:35
Speaker 2: families available, but the families are particular about what kind
4:39
Speaker 2: of a tide they want to adopt, Like, you know,
4:42
Speaker 2: they want a very young child, a healthy child, and
4:46
Speaker 2: things of that nature. But those things have changed. Also
4:49
Speaker 2: over a period of time. The economics of the families
4:53
Speaker 2: have changed, so not many people are giving away their
4:56
Speaker 2: children that are healthy, so they're giving up the children
5:02
Speaker 2: that are special needs, which not many Indians are open to.
5:07
Speaker 2: So these are some of the cultural contexts that I
5:11
Speaker 2: can present to you that you know, twenty years ago
5:14
Speaker 2: there are not many families that are coming forward to
5:17
Speaker 2: but a power twenty four there are families available, but
5:21
Speaker 2: they are very fusticable about what kind of inciting that
5:24
Speaker 2: they want to adopt.
5:26
Speaker 1: So it impacts the family. Is a great deal for
5:29
Speaker 1: those who are involved and the children that's involved, So
5:34
Speaker 1: people who want to adopt as well as those who
5:37
Speaker 1: are unable to care for their children at this time,
5:40
Speaker 1: so it's like a great impact. The process typically involves
5:45
Speaker 1: navigating the Central Adoption Resource Authority which is CARA. There
5:50
Speaker 1: is it the central regulatory body that manages adoptions.
5:54
Speaker 2: Correct, it is the federal government at the federal government level.
5:59
Speaker 2: This is this is a stategory body created by the
6:03
Speaker 2: power of the Parliament. So it is called the Central
6:07
Speaker 2: Adoption Resource Authority. This was always there, but it had
6:12
Speaker 2: been given more power, more teeth by the parliament, so
6:18
Speaker 2: it has become much more stronger and powerful now. And
6:23
Speaker 2: there were some international instruments that India, the country had signed.
6:28
Speaker 2: One is called the UNCRC United Nations Convention and the
6:32
Speaker 2: Rights of the Child. The other one is called a
6:35
Speaker 2: GIG Convention on Inter Country Adoption. So because we have
6:38
Speaker 2: signed these true international instruments which is binding on our country,
6:43
Speaker 2: because we ratified, we had to make certain changes on
6:49
Speaker 2: our end which made the system much more stronger and transferent.
6:54
Speaker 2: In this entire process of transforming ourselves. CAR also became
7:00
Speaker 2: much more stronger.
7:02
Speaker 1: So there's CARA set guidelines to streamline domestic and international
7:06
Speaker 1: adoptions that prioritize the preparation of adoption parents in the best.
7:10
Speaker 2: Interest absolutely, but it is only under the Juvenile in
7:16
Speaker 2: Justice Act. There is an act called the Juvenile Justice Act.
7:21
Speaker 2: KARA only can do adoptions or set regulations that are
7:27
Speaker 2: under the purview of ju and Ile in Justice Act.
7:30
Speaker 2: We do have another act called Hindo Adoption and Maintenance Act,
7:35
Speaker 2: so KARA is also trying to work slowly in that
7:39
Speaker 2: sphere also, but not as widely as strongly as it
7:43
Speaker 2: is able to work under the juven Island Justice Actors
7:46
Speaker 2: in short, which is called a JA Act.
7:49
Speaker 1: Wow, you guys have come a long way. Prior to
7:52
Speaker 1: us coming on here, I've been talking about how far
7:57
Speaker 1: you have come since we initially started. When I had
8:01
Speaker 1: been speaking to that, my other guests lass me about
8:04
Speaker 1: a program that they were getting started called the Dots
8:07
Speaker 1: in a and just to come back after COVID and
8:12
Speaker 1: to see how far you have come. What has your
8:14
Speaker 1: experience been while interacting with prospective adopted parents.
8:20
Speaker 2: Okay, well let me go ahead.
8:25
Speaker 4: Yeah, rub be thanks, actually, Black, that was a very
8:30
Speaker 4: good question because you know, if I can take you
8:35
Speaker 4: a couple of decades back, Ruby and I both adopted
8:41
Speaker 4: around the same time. Ruby did so much earlier, actually
8:45
Speaker 4: a few years earlier. But I got into the adoption
8:49
Speaker 4: process in two thousand and eight when things were really
8:54
Speaker 4: not regulated at all. There was Kara was there, but
9:00
Speaker 4: this kind of regulation.
9:02
Speaker 3: Was not there.
9:03
Speaker 4: It was not a statutory body, and especially international adoption
9:08
Speaker 4: was very very difficult, and awareness also was very very
9:12
Speaker 4: limited at that time. So I was fortunate that I
9:18
Speaker 4: met Ruby online. He had already troddened that path. He
9:23
Speaker 4: was an adoptive parent at that time and he was
9:26
Speaker 4: already mentoring prospective adoptive parents. So that is how I
9:30
Speaker 4: met him. Yeah, and otherwise I do not know what
9:35
Speaker 4: would have happened, because you know, I was not in
9:37
Speaker 4: India at that time. I was in another country and
9:40
Speaker 4: I was Yeah, I was actually in a Southeast Asian country.
9:45
Speaker 4: I was based there, and I was trying to adopt
9:49
Speaker 4: from India and nobody knew anything, even the embassies there.
9:54
Speaker 4: There was no one who could support because of the
9:57
Speaker 4: lack of awareness.
9:59
Speaker 3: You know.
10:00
Speaker 4: So even after a few years when I first started
10:05
Speaker 4: option in twenty twenty, I felt that people were still
10:09
Speaker 4: stumbling in the dark because there was by then, of
10:13
Speaker 4: course Juvenile Justice Act and KARA had come in, but
10:17
Speaker 4: people were still to the common man, all these were
10:21
Speaker 4: still very dark areas. But like you rightly said, in
10:25
Speaker 4: the last few years, I think a lot of awareness
10:28
Speaker 4: has come in and like you said, yes, post COVID
10:32
Speaker 4: everything has gone online. There is a lot of information
10:36
Speaker 4: and now we see almost anyone who is contemplating at
10:40
Speaker 4: option at least is aware of KARA. So I feel
10:45
Speaker 4: at the regulatory level it is a baby step, but
10:49
Speaker 4: we have taken that step. Yeah, in terms of regulation,
10:52
Speaker 4: it's a big step. Now comes the part about attitudes
10:56
Speaker 4: and acceptance all these things. I guess that will be
11:00
Speaker 4: the next big battle. But yes, the first step is taken.
11:05
Speaker 2: Great ye if Yeah, what Mami had said is and
11:16
Speaker 2: about the attitudes, what I see is, you know, I
11:20
Speaker 2: do a lot of pre adoption counseling to prospect you
11:24
Speaker 2: adopt your parents. There are few areas that you know,
11:28
Speaker 2: we still have a long way to go, but it's
11:30
Speaker 2: changing though. For example, you know, if I tell them
11:35
Speaker 2: how many years it takes to wait to adopt a
11:39
Speaker 2: young child. Rather they could opt for a child a
11:42
Speaker 2: little older, They could opt for a child especially needs.
11:46
Speaker 2: The willingness to open to adopt a child of that
11:51
Speaker 2: nature is very low. So but it's changing, you know,
11:55
Speaker 2: because as saying that, the awareness is increasing, so there
12:01
Speaker 2: are more and more number of people are coming forward
12:04
Speaker 2: to adopt the children that are older. And that especially
12:08
Speaker 2: it's because we do not have very many children in
12:11
Speaker 2: our system under the Junial Justice ad that are very young.
12:15
Speaker 2: So if somebody is opting to take a child who
12:19
Speaker 2: is very young, they will have to wait literally for years.
12:23
Speaker 2: So we kind of encourage them in a very gentle
12:25
Speaker 2: way to consider these options, but it takes it's a
12:31
Speaker 2: challenging situation for the families to navigate through. That's one
12:37
Speaker 2: area that I have parents to struggle with.
12:44
Speaker 1: So families who are adopt the and they go through
12:46
Speaker 1: several steps including registration, background checks, home studies, imagine a
12:52
Speaker 1: children based on specific criteria. What are some of the
12:54
Speaker 1: criteria that they need to have in order to be
12:58
Speaker 1: able to adapt. I know we were talking at one
13:01
Speaker 1: time and this was through a podcast. It was just
13:05
Speaker 1: a regular conversation that we was having and I've asked
13:09
Speaker 1: several questions about the criteria as far as being in
13:13
Speaker 1: a specific area in India and being able to adopt,
13:17
Speaker 1: opposed to me being in the US saying that I
13:20
Speaker 1: wanted to adopt, What is the criteria and how hard
13:24
Speaker 1: would it be for me in the United States to
13:27
Speaker 1: want to adopt, Because you're saying that there is children
13:30
Speaker 1: that's there that have special needs or of a certain
13:34
Speaker 1: age that need to be adopted, but it's hard to
13:37
Speaker 1: find adopted parents. So if I came forward and said
13:40
Speaker 1: that I wanted to adopt a couple of special needs
13:43
Speaker 1: children and bring them here, what would the criteria be
13:47
Speaker 1: and how hard would it be for me to be
13:48
Speaker 1: able to adopt.
13:49
Speaker 2: One of the children? Yeah, I could just start with
13:54
Speaker 2: the Indian site for the adopted parents that are living
13:58
Speaker 2: here called them as So the criteria is very simple.
14:03
Speaker 2: One is you can adopt under the Dadact. You can
14:06
Speaker 2: adopt either a single person or as a married couple.
14:10
Speaker 2: And then if you are adopting, the age has to
14:14
Speaker 2: be about you have to be about thirty five years
14:18
Speaker 2: and above. If your marriage you have to have two
14:21
Speaker 2: years of yes and if you are married, you should
14:27
Speaker 2: have had two years of stable marriage. And then you know,
14:32
Speaker 2: it doesn't specify how to say like a health conditions,
14:39
Speaker 2: but it just says that you have to be healthy
14:43
Speaker 2: and financially sound to be able to take care of
14:45
Speaker 2: the child. And these are the prospective parents side. But
14:50
Speaker 2: then how to do adoption these it is purely online only,
14:55
Speaker 2: that is through the government set both. You cannot you
15:00
Speaker 2: cannot go to an adoption agency or anyone directly and
15:03
Speaker 2: say hey, I want this child. No, it can only
15:06
Speaker 2: be done through the government set portal on the government website.
15:11
Speaker 2: So basically black you know, several decades ago, abuses surfaced
15:18
Speaker 2: in the field of adoption because of this precise thing
15:22
Speaker 2: that was not there. People would just walk into any
15:25
Speaker 2: place than anyone and say I want this child and
15:28
Speaker 2: they take the child. So the government had to put
15:31
Speaker 2: an end to that. So now basically Downment acts as
15:37
Speaker 2: an intermediating between the child and the adoptive parent. Okay,
15:43
Speaker 2: So now the government recognizes certain private enngyos at adoption
15:51
Speaker 2: agencies and sends these available children to these agencies to
15:55
Speaker 2: look after them. So now our organization is recognized as
16:02
Speaker 2: one of those adoption agencies and we receive children from
16:04
Speaker 2: the donmant so our roadies TUK. One is to upload
16:11
Speaker 2: all the information of the child to the donment portal
16:14
Speaker 2: that I just mentioned about, and the second day is
16:16
Speaker 2: to look after the child in the specification that the
16:19
Speaker 2: government mentions about. From the parent's side, they apply to
16:25
Speaker 2: the same portal that I just said about. So basically
16:29
Speaker 2: as I said, the downment access intermediary running this portal
16:34
Speaker 2: receiving information from us as an INJURYO from the child's
16:39
Speaker 2: end and looked up looking after the child and the
16:42
Speaker 2: parent's side, they have applied to the same portal and
16:47
Speaker 2: the intermediary who matches the parents with the child of
16:51
Speaker 2: their choice. I'll give you one example. Let's say I
16:55
Speaker 2: am a parent applying to a portal often to adopt
17:02
Speaker 2: a child. I have to state during my registration what
17:06
Speaker 2: kind of a child do I want to adopt? Privately,
17:09
Speaker 2: there are only three choices. One is the gender that
17:12
Speaker 2: I want, a boy or a girl, And what is
17:15
Speaker 2: the age group that I want? You know, there are
17:18
Speaker 2: different slabs of age that you can choose or the
17:21
Speaker 2: system itself automatically chooses based on your age. And the
17:25
Speaker 2: third one is if I want a child who is
17:28
Speaker 2: healthy or especial in this child. And fourth option is
17:33
Speaker 2: the geographical area. You know, we speak so many languages,
17:37
Speaker 2: we have so many different cultures and tradition, So the
17:40
Speaker 2: government want to be sure that the children are placed
17:43
Speaker 2: in their own socio cultural menu. So they have to
17:47
Speaker 2: state the region, like you know, for example, I am
17:51
Speaker 2: from the Southern India as much we is, so we
17:54
Speaker 2: have to choose Southern India so that children from Southern
17:57
Speaker 2: India with the prospect preparents from southern their match. So
18:02
Speaker 2: once the government identifies our matches the child with the parent,
18:08
Speaker 2: the parent receives the notification and the jury receives the
18:13
Speaker 2: notification saying hey, these two are being matched, and those
18:18
Speaker 2: two will start communicating stating hey, please come on this
18:22
Speaker 2: particular day to receive the child. And you know when
18:27
Speaker 2: they come to receive the child is the first time
18:30
Speaker 2: they will be meeting people physically called adoption committee. There
18:36
Speaker 2: are few downment officials, injury officials, pediatrician. All these people
18:42
Speaker 2: are there to meet the parents to understand, you know,
18:47
Speaker 2: where they're coming from and what the child is able
18:50
Speaker 2: to offer, and then they present the child to the pendent.
18:55
Speaker 2: So this is the Indian side I'm talking about.
18:59
Speaker 1: I just want to be come from there. And you said,
19:01
Speaker 1: maybe I didn't hear this correctly. I'm hoping I didn't.
19:04
Speaker 1: You said what the child has to offer?
19:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean like you know when when I say
19:11
Speaker 2: child has to offer, what I mean is what is
19:14
Speaker 2: child able to do? You know the parents are of
19:17
Speaker 2: course they're already matched. It's not like whether the parents
19:21
Speaker 2: are going to say yes or no. You parents have
19:23
Speaker 2: basically come to take the child. They're presenting the child
19:27
Speaker 2: to the parent to take the child, because the parents
19:32
Speaker 2: have the option to look at the child even beforehand
19:35
Speaker 2: before they come. Because once the matching has taken place
19:40
Speaker 2: and the notification is received, the parents have certain amount
19:43
Speaker 2: of time to say yes or non. So only once
19:48
Speaker 2: the parents say yes they can firm that they can
19:51
Speaker 2: come to this particular place. So if their parents are
19:55
Speaker 2: coming to this place, they have almost made a decision
19:59
Speaker 2: for certainty if you take the child. But the domoments
20:02
Speaker 2: still want to be sure that there are people checking,
20:06
Speaker 2: you know, the adoptive parents, that documents, the validity of
20:10
Speaker 2: the documents everything. So that is why this adoption is
20:13
Speaker 2: sitting there to look at these documents, and then the
20:17
Speaker 2: child is presented them.
20:24
Speaker 1: To me, and I guess it's my ignorant or maybe
20:28
Speaker 1: I'm not too culturally aware, but it's almost pick and
20:33
Speaker 1: chattel when they come to look at the child to
20:36
Speaker 1: see if that's the child that they want. If for me,
20:39
Speaker 1: and this is just my perspective of it, if you're
20:42
Speaker 1: going to say that you want to be an adoptive
20:44
Speaker 1: parent of a little girl, and you have the history
20:47
Speaker 1: of the little girl of what you know she and
20:51
Speaker 1: maybe a picture is there, she's healthy, whatever, whatever, whatever,
20:55
Speaker 1: and then they go to see the child. If she
20:57
Speaker 1: doesn't look like what they expect, they can deny the child.
21:02
Speaker 1: And the child is standing right there to hear the denial.
21:05
Speaker 1: Do they if they say they're going to accept the
21:08
Speaker 1: child and they want the child, do they give them
21:10
Speaker 1: a bonding period or whether it's or do they just
21:15
Speaker 1: take the child that at that moment right there and
21:18
Speaker 1: if that happens.
21:19
Speaker 2: The p our adoption regulations do provide for the bonding
21:25
Speaker 2: period opportunity if the adoptive agencies that the jeers looking
21:30
Speaker 2: at looking after the children have the responsibility to enable
21:35
Speaker 2: the parents to develop the bonding before they take the child.
21:40
Speaker 2: And you know, we in our enjury. We try to
21:43
Speaker 2: do that. You know, we always encourage the parents to
21:45
Speaker 2: come and spend some time. It's not like, you know,
21:49
Speaker 2: just taking a product from a shop. You know, this
21:53
Speaker 2: is the light that we are trying to match to
21:56
Speaker 2: grow up in your home. And and this child has
21:59
Speaker 2: grown up in this environment where she has friends, where
22:03
Speaker 2: she has care takers, where she has certain favorite things
22:07
Speaker 2: that she likes. So if you could spend some time
22:10
Speaker 2: probably two days, three days, four days a week, you know, longer,
22:14
Speaker 2: it is better so that you understand exactly what this
22:18
Speaker 2: child likes, what she doesn't like, who have friends are,
22:21
Speaker 2: who have favorite care taker is so that the transition
22:25
Speaker 2: is smooth. But you know, there are some parents who
22:29
Speaker 2: don't have that much of time, but we insist that
22:32
Speaker 2: you know that you should do that in the best
22:35
Speaker 2: interest of the child. It's unlike you know, buying a product.
22:39
Speaker 2: You know, this is not like that you have to
22:42
Speaker 2: spend some time. So most of the time, I would
22:44
Speaker 2: say nineteen nine percent of the time parents. I'm assuming
22:47
Speaker 2: it's the same thing with many of the adoption agencies
22:50
Speaker 2: also that they do comely.
22:53
Speaker 1: So it's interesting that the biological parent is there as
22:58
Speaker 1: well because this country. They don't normally allow that to
23:06
Speaker 1: happen when that's the adoption. They have closed and open adoptions,
23:10
Speaker 1: So I'll say it that way. But from what you're saying,
23:15
Speaker 1: they want to place the children with their likeness as
23:18
Speaker 1: far as where they're from. So there's almost no chance
23:20
Speaker 1: of me adopting a child that's from India unless it's
23:25
Speaker 1: in my correct if I say, unless it's a hard
23:27
Speaker 1: to place child, and what do you consider a hard
23:30
Speaker 1: to place child?
23:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, the thing is go ahead.
23:37
Speaker 4: No, No, it's okay, Ruby, I was just saying black
23:40
Speaker 4: in India right now. Uh, it is mostly only closed
23:45
Speaker 4: adoptions and not open adoptions, so the biological parent is
23:49
Speaker 4: not in the.
23:50
Speaker 3: Picture at all here.
23:52
Speaker 1: Okay.
23:52
Speaker 3: So yeah, when Ruby was referring to they.
23:56
Speaker 4: That is, you know, they present the child to us.
23:59
Speaker 4: It is only the adoption agency and not the biological Yeah.
24:04
Speaker 4: I think Ruby can elicitate more on that, so please.
24:09
Speaker 1: It was kind it will be a parent a child
24:13
Speaker 1: go away from them. It's already hard enough for them.
24:16
Speaker 1: So I was just kind of, you know, wondering how
24:19
Speaker 1: how would that play out? So I understand the process
24:22
Speaker 1: can be thorough to ensure child safety and family readiness,
24:26
Speaker 1: but it could also be len complex due to the
24:29
Speaker 1: demand for careful compliance with the legal regulations generally, how
24:34
Speaker 1: long is the process?
24:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, but before that, I think I will go back
24:40
Speaker 2: to the earlier person that you asked about you being
24:43
Speaker 2: able to adopt. You know how difficult it is, and
24:47
Speaker 2: LUTI correct when I said they, I was referring to
24:51
Speaker 2: adoption agency and the adoption committee, which has a group
24:55
Speaker 2: of people making the decisions. In our culture and also
24:59
Speaker 2: the regulations find adoption as the process where the child
25:03
Speaker 2: is permanently separated from the biological parents and become the
25:08
Speaker 2: legal child of the adoptive parents with the rights, responsibility
25:13
Speaker 2: and privilegious attached to a biological child. That's a definition,
25:17
Speaker 2: so adoptive families. Sorry, biological family is permanently separated from
25:22
Speaker 2: the child. Okay, So now question.
25:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, and now saying this determination of parental rights and
25:31
Speaker 1: how how fast does that happen? The termination of parental rights?
25:35
Speaker 2: And there is the process you right? You know? For example,
25:40
Speaker 2: there are different ways the child comes into the adoptions free.
25:43
Speaker 2: One is called the surrendering. That is biological parents bringing
25:47
Speaker 2: the child before the doornment and say, I can't look
25:50
Speaker 2: after this child, I would like to give this child
25:52
Speaker 2: up for adoption. And the second way is no, but yeah,
26:02
Speaker 2: but the state when they come for surrendering, state is
26:05
Speaker 2: beauty bound to see if there are any if there
26:09
Speaker 2: are any needs that the state can meet to help
26:12
Speaker 2: the family to keep the child, so they can extend
26:16
Speaker 2: if they have something that they can offer for the
26:18
Speaker 2: family to ensure that the child's state with them rather
26:23
Speaker 2: than with adoptive parents. So they have to give counseling,
26:27
Speaker 2: They have to understand their needs and why they want
26:29
Speaker 2: to give them up for adoption. And if at the
26:32
Speaker 2: end of the day, if the parents are very sure
26:35
Speaker 2: that they want to give this child for adoption, there
26:37
Speaker 2: is certain amount of paperwork that the parents have to
26:40
Speaker 2: complete to give the child up surrender. And the same
26:44
Speaker 2: aspect of the second aspect of bringing the child into
26:48
Speaker 2: the adoption street is called this abandonment. So there are
26:53
Speaker 2: parents who leave their children here and there, and in
26:57
Speaker 2: that case there are no paper us to be signed
27:01
Speaker 2: or anything because they left the child and went. So
27:04
Speaker 2: in both of these routes, the government regulation states that
27:12
Speaker 2: we have to give grace period. For example, in surrendering,
27:17
Speaker 2: there is a grace period of sixty days from the
27:19
Speaker 2: day they surrender to change their mind, to come back
27:22
Speaker 2: to claim the child if they want to, and an
27:25
Speaker 2: abandonment government assumes that the child is found who for
27:32
Speaker 2: whom the parents are looking for, So we have to
27:35
Speaker 2: put an advertisement in the newspaper and the television to
27:40
Speaker 2: see if there are anybody, if there is anyone looking
27:43
Speaker 2: for this child, and they also have to wait for
27:46
Speaker 2: sixty days. So basically there is grace period in both
27:50
Speaker 2: the routes of sixty days to be sure that we
27:55
Speaker 2: are not taking away any child from the biological parents
28:00
Speaker 2: by force, by collusion of any kind, or anything of
28:03
Speaker 2: that nature. So there is a pretty amount of what
28:08
Speaker 2: should they say, time for the parents to come and claim.
28:11
Speaker 2: But after the sixty days the system it's him where
28:16
Speaker 2: they declared the child legally free for adoption. So only
28:20
Speaker 2: as this.
28:21
Speaker 1: In such a question, yeah, being that I I kind
28:29
Speaker 1: of felt that this was going to happen to me
28:31
Speaker 1: when I ask questions, and I had you guys on
28:33
Speaker 1: as a guest, because my emotions get involved because I've
28:37
Speaker 1: adopted several children and I understand that we're in different
28:42
Speaker 1: places and whatnot. So I'm becoming a culturally aware. You
28:46
Speaker 1: know you're mentioning that abandonment a person either they don't
28:49
Speaker 1: know what their child is or either they're leaving their
28:51
Speaker 1: child and you say they have sixty days. But if
28:53
Speaker 1: you leave a child that say eight nine or ten,
28:57
Speaker 1: that eight nine or ten year old know who their
28:59
Speaker 1: parents are, do they ever come forward and say, my
29:03
Speaker 1: mom or my dad or my parents or these people
29:06
Speaker 1: and your government have went to them and said something
29:09
Speaker 1: to a family that you abandoned your child because your
29:14
Speaker 1: child has been identified or this little girl or boy
29:16
Speaker 1: has been identified as saying that you are their parents.
29:20
Speaker 1: Is their penalty in that way when they find out
29:22
Speaker 1: who the parent is, even though the parent didn't come
29:25
Speaker 1: forward and the parent purposely could not take care of
29:29
Speaker 1: the child but abandoned them so they wouldn't have ties
29:32
Speaker 1: to them. That was one question, And my other question
29:35
Speaker 1: is has there ever been a time where a family
29:41
Speaker 1: had more than one child? Say I was in India
29:45
Speaker 1: and I had two children, and I couldn't take care
29:47
Speaker 1: of two children, so I gave one away and I
29:49
Speaker 1: kept the other. Or with the agency or the government
29:53
Speaker 1: say if I can't take care of one, they have
29:55
Speaker 1: to take the other one as well.
29:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, the question, you know, if the child is old
30:02
Speaker 2: enough to state who her parents are and things like that.
30:07
Speaker 2: You know, unlike the United States, where there's only one language,
30:10
Speaker 2: in our country, we have multiple languages. So what parents
30:15
Speaker 2: sometimes tend to do is to take and leave the
30:18
Speaker 2: child in a state where they don't speak that particular language.
30:22
Speaker 2: This is I'm talking about out of my experience that
30:25
Speaker 2: I have seen. You know, we have rescued one individual
30:29
Speaker 2: who's appeared to be about fourteen years of age. Somehow,
30:34
Speaker 2: I think the parents may have put him in a train.
30:37
Speaker 2: They may have brought it into the train, all of
30:39
Speaker 2: them together, and after the child fell asleep, they just
30:43
Speaker 2: got off the train and the train went on. And
30:46
Speaker 2: it so happened that we rescued the child at our
30:48
Speaker 2: railway station and child was not able to speak our language.
30:53
Speaker 2: So it is so difficult for us to be able
30:56
Speaker 2: to locate the parents what we tried to do. And
31:00
Speaker 2: also when we found out what language this child speak,
31:04
Speaker 2: this language is spoken in multiple states in India, so
31:09
Speaker 2: we sent to which state we did not know. So
31:12
Speaker 2: it is a challenge to find where the parents are
31:18
Speaker 2: because our systems are still what should I say, evolving
31:23
Speaker 2: and not hope yet to identify the parents, and even
31:26
Speaker 2: if they do, the penalties would be much minimal because
31:31
Speaker 2: they may have, you know, given up this child for
31:34
Speaker 2: the reasons of poverty, for not being able to take
31:37
Speaker 2: care of the healthcare needs and things of that nature.
31:40
Speaker 2: So the system is much more compassionate than retributed. And
31:46
Speaker 2: the second question, what was your second question? Not taking
31:49
Speaker 2: just refresh my memory.
31:51
Speaker 1: If they had more than one yeah, yeah, and they
31:57
Speaker 1: decided to give thee away. From what I understand, say
32:00
Speaker 1: I was a parent that had a boy and a
32:02
Speaker 1: girl and I couldn't take care of most likely the
32:08
Speaker 1: girl would be the one that would be given away,
32:10
Speaker 1: the boy would be the one that would stay right correct.
32:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, right again, unlike in the United States, where the
32:18
Speaker 2: child protection system is so strong, and in our country
32:21
Speaker 2: it is just evolving. Our child protection systems are just
32:25
Speaker 2: coming with the picture, and we don't have a very
32:28
Speaker 2: strong foster care system. And again, foster care also is
32:32
Speaker 2: just opening up. So if somebody comes forward and says that, hey,
32:36
Speaker 2: I want to give up one child and I want
32:38
Speaker 2: to keep one child, the child protection system offers this family,
32:44
Speaker 2: you know, several options instead of giving up this child.
32:48
Speaker 2: Up for adoption where the siblings have to be separated
32:51
Speaker 2: and the parents have to be parents have to be separated,
32:54
Speaker 2: So they would offer them foster care, they would offer
32:58
Speaker 2: them an institutional care whether parents could come and with
33:01
Speaker 2: it and they can still be parents. So despite offering
33:05
Speaker 2: all these options, and if the family still says that
33:09
Speaker 2: they do not want to keep the child, they will
33:14
Speaker 2: not post a second child also to be given away,
33:17
Speaker 2: because again the system is much more compassionate than attributive,
33:23
Speaker 2: and they understand. You know, again, if you want to
33:26
Speaker 2: keep this child, and if you want to give away
33:28
Speaker 2: one child, where do your resources come from to take
33:31
Speaker 2: care of the child that you want to keep. So
33:34
Speaker 2: only if and the system becomes convinced that they do
33:39
Speaker 2: have sufficient resources to care for that one child, or
33:43
Speaker 2: if the system can extend additional resources to keep the
33:46
Speaker 2: second child, they do that. But if the family is
33:49
Speaker 2: very insistent that they want to part ways with this
33:52
Speaker 2: one child, government takes the child and place the child
33:55
Speaker 2: for adoption.
33:59
Speaker 1: I'm listening to how things are done there in India
34:05
Speaker 1: and how things are done here in the US. And
34:08
Speaker 1: I can't speak for every state, but I won't I
34:11
Speaker 1: won't speak for any state. I'll speak for myself because
34:14
Speaker 1: I've been through that process, and I'll speak for my experience.
34:20
Speaker 1: But I'm hearing that you guys are so close to
34:24
Speaker 1: what is done in the US, and I'm just so
34:29
Speaker 1: happy and pleased to hear that you've come this far,
34:34
Speaker 1: and I can just taste it that you are picking
34:38
Speaker 1: up on so much with your advocacy. You know, my
34:43
Speaker 1: question also is going to be do advocates work to
34:45
Speaker 1: address society to biases and provide the resources and networks
34:50
Speaker 1: for adopted families. And I see that you do. We
34:52
Speaker 1: have something here called family preservation where we try to
34:56
Speaker 1: preserve the family. And what you had just said sounds
34:59
Speaker 1: very very close to what you're offering when you say
35:03
Speaker 1: you offer them other options, and that's that's wonderful and
35:06
Speaker 1: it just makes me feel It makes me feel so
35:09
Speaker 1: much better. I guess I take some take on the
35:10
Speaker 1: world's children when I hear anything about children being separated
35:16
Speaker 1: from their their families, whether it's because the family needs
35:19
Speaker 1: to be separated because of whatever this situation may be,
35:23
Speaker 1: or if the government do the separation. But I haven't
35:28
Speaker 1: heard you mention anything about abuse, because sometimes that's the
35:34
Speaker 1: reason of why a child will come into care because
35:37
Speaker 1: the child may have been abused. How do your country
35:42
Speaker 1: work with abuse with the families and the children.
35:48
Speaker 2: Yes, a good question. You know, as I told you
35:51
Speaker 2: in our adoption that are whose streams that I mentioned abandonment,
35:57
Speaker 2: there is also another one called are awesome. Let's say,
36:01
Speaker 2: for example, during COVID, a child lost her parents and
36:05
Speaker 2: none of the extended family members want to take care
36:07
Speaker 2: of this child, and the government is absolutely certain that
36:10
Speaker 2: there is no one out there looking up but to
36:12
Speaker 2: look after this child. They will also declared the child
36:16
Speaker 2: legally creep for adoption. So now I have stated three routes,
36:20
Speaker 2: one in abandonment, other one surrendering, other one in poptanhood.
36:24
Speaker 2: Now make me This year the Supreme Court has added
36:28
Speaker 2: two more elements to it. One is called as unfit parents.
36:35
Speaker 2: The second one is called non visitational parents. So I'll
36:39
Speaker 2: just explain this true to you to help you understand.
36:43
Speaker 2: So unfit parents, Yeah, the question that.
36:47
Speaker 1: Is stay Yeah.
36:52
Speaker 2: Right, then you said when you said unfit parents that
36:55
Speaker 2: abuse comes in that category any kind of neglect or
37:00
Speaker 2: abuse where the government feels that parents cannot or will
37:06
Speaker 2: not be able to take care of this child. They
37:10
Speaker 2: have a system in place to declare the parents as
37:13
Speaker 2: unfit parents. And if they declare the parents as unfit parents,
37:19
Speaker 2: then they will be eligible for adoption. But the system
37:23
Speaker 2: of declaring the parents is unfit, you know, has to
37:27
Speaker 2: be very very strong and strict, because they cannot be
37:32
Speaker 2: in room for abused by the system itself. You get
37:38
Speaker 2: my point blood what I'm saying. So they want to
37:42
Speaker 2: be they want to be certain that the system is
37:48
Speaker 2: proving the parents to be unfit in a very strong
37:51
Speaker 2: way without abusing the parents to separate the child from
37:55
Speaker 2: the parents. So they take the system very seen. For example,
38:01
Speaker 2: if the parent is both the parents are so badly
38:07
Speaker 2: addicted to drugs, alcohol, you know, they've been through various
38:13
Speaker 2: measures of getting ridout this addiction, but they're unable to
38:17
Speaker 2: and the children are being affective. Children are malnourished, children
38:22
Speaker 2: are not being able to go to school. You know,
38:24
Speaker 2: all these things are being identified and set to themselves. No,
38:29
Speaker 2: this child is not going to be growing up in
38:32
Speaker 2: this hope in the best interest of her interest. So
38:36
Speaker 2: the only way that the child interest can be served
38:40
Speaker 2: is to have this child in another place. So the
38:42
Speaker 2: first option would be the care the parents has unfit
38:46
Speaker 2: to see if the parents, if the child can be
38:47
Speaker 2: placed in posta care to give them some time to
38:52
Speaker 2: you know, clean up themselves. But if that is also
38:54
Speaker 2: not working, then they would consider taking the child to adoption.
38:59
Speaker 2: And the last one and is unfrefars as I said,
39:02
Speaker 2: if the child can be placed in an institution so
39:07
Speaker 2: the parents can come and visit. And for example, after
39:12
Speaker 2: we place the child in an institution, and if the
39:15
Speaker 2: parents don't choose to come back at all but twelve
39:19
Speaker 2: months in a row, that would be considered as a
39:22
Speaker 2: red flag under the banner of not sorry, non visitation.
39:27
Speaker 2: So even if there is no visitation but for months
39:30
Speaker 2: in a row, also government can declare the child legally product.
39:34
Speaker 2: So basically what I'm trying to say is government has
39:36
Speaker 2: given a lot of leading for the parents to look
39:40
Speaker 2: at themselves, to clean up themselves, to have their children
39:44
Speaker 2: with them, But system is saying if you don't, then
39:48
Speaker 2: we have other ways to help the child to grow
39:51
Speaker 2: in a family, because our obligation to UNCRC, that is
39:57
Speaker 2: United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child is
39:59
Speaker 2: that tidy has a right to grow in a family.
40:04
Speaker 2: So if your family is not the family then the
40:06
Speaker 2: child should grow up in. Then we should have an
40:09
Speaker 2: alternated family that the child to grow up in. But
40:12
Speaker 2: I respective of what your family has the first right,
40:16
Speaker 2: first priority. But if that is not going to be
40:19
Speaker 2: the family, the government is saying, the system is saying,
40:22
Speaker 2: we have alternatives to look after the child because the
40:25
Speaker 2: family is the primary the right of the child.
40:29
Speaker 1: It sounds like India does mirror the United States in
40:32
Speaker 1: a lot of ways. It's just the terminology maybe a
40:35
Speaker 1: little different. We do fifteen or twenty two months if
40:39
Speaker 1: the child is in care, and you had mentioned if
40:42
Speaker 1: the parent does not see the child within twelve months,
40:46
Speaker 1: so it's almost it's similar to what we do here.
40:50
Speaker 1: And I'm very happy to hear that last we having
40:54
Speaker 1: a biological and an adoptive daughter, it has to bring
40:57
Speaker 1: a rich blend of experience and perspectives into your family.
41:01
Speaker 1: Celebrating National Adoption Month must be particularly be beautiful for
41:05
Speaker 1: you and highlight the unique journey of adoption while celebrating
41:09
Speaker 1: a bond you share with both of your daughters. And
41:11
Speaker 1: I've seen pictures of your beautiful daughters. I would love
41:15
Speaker 1: to hear more about how adoption has shaped your family life.
41:20
Speaker 3: Okay, thank you for that. I'm black.
41:22
Speaker 4: This is something I could go on and on about forever. Actually,
41:29
Speaker 4: you know, I had absolutely no concerns. Maybe it was ignorance,
41:35
Speaker 4: maybe it was idealism, I don't know. But when I,
41:39
Speaker 4: you know, had a biological child, as soon as I
41:42
Speaker 4: had the biological child, I was sure I would adopt
41:45
Speaker 4: to or even before I had her. It's just the
41:49
Speaker 4: gender that became very clear after I had a first child,
41:53
Speaker 4: you know, when I had a biological daughter, then I
41:56
Speaker 4: was sure the second one would be a girl too,
41:58
Speaker 4: so that they could grow up together.
42:00
Speaker 3: That's all.
42:01
Speaker 4: But yeah, but it's once I got into the system
42:06
Speaker 4: that I realized people were very apprehensive for me. You know,
42:11
Speaker 4: everyone else around me was apprehensive except me. Probably Everyone
42:16
Speaker 4: was asking me, did you want do you really want
42:19
Speaker 4: to do this? How will your you know, elder one
42:23
Speaker 4: take this? There will be problems within the family. That
42:26
Speaker 4: is when I realize there is actually a distinction between
42:31
Speaker 4: a biological child and an adopted child, at least in
42:34
Speaker 4: the parents' minds, or people's minds, rather not parents, but
42:38
Speaker 4: in the society. And then I realized, okay, I mean,
42:42
Speaker 4: it's only natural for people to think that way. So
42:47
Speaker 4: I have been fortunate that my elder daughter, she was
42:51
Speaker 4: the biggest champion, and you know, she was around four
42:55
Speaker 4: years old when I started the process, and her at
43:00
Speaker 4: that age it was just a sister coming home and
43:04
Speaker 4: she didn't care how, you know, that's the that's the
43:08
Speaker 4: advantage with children. She just didn't care how. She didn't
43:11
Speaker 4: ask me even once why is she not coming from
43:14
Speaker 4: your dummy? So I had told her that there is
43:17
Speaker 4: a specsion.
43:19
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you know, it's.
43:20
Speaker 4: So normal that it makes me think why is it
43:24
Speaker 4: that we have all these.
43:25
Speaker 3: Questions in our head. For her, it was just okay.
43:29
Speaker 4: I told her, there's a baby waiting for you in
43:32
Speaker 4: a special place, and we have to get her. We
43:35
Speaker 4: have to work hard to get her from there. You know,
43:38
Speaker 4: she's waiting for her home and you're going to be
43:41
Speaker 4: her sister. And she was just so excited about it,
43:44
Speaker 4: and it was very natural.
43:46
Speaker 3: So I think a.
43:46
Speaker 4: Little bit of that rubbed off on me too. For
43:50
Speaker 4: me too, it was just not once luck did I think.
43:54
Speaker 4: I don't know, maybe it was idealism, after all, I
43:56
Speaker 4: didn't think of you know, they're going to be the
44:01
Speaker 4: possibility of there being any adjustment issue between my kids,
44:05
Speaker 4: the two of them, and probably it just fell in
44:09
Speaker 4: place like a self fulfilling prophecy. The adjustment was very
44:14
Speaker 4: seamless for the younger one because the elder one was
44:18
Speaker 4: already there waiting with open arms, you know, so it
44:21
Speaker 4: was a very yeah, yeah.
44:24
Speaker 3: A touch would.
44:25
Speaker 4: Of course, there were other issues for me in terms
44:28
Speaker 4: of extended family or you know, even within the family,
44:34
Speaker 4: a little bit of resistance from different quarters, and then
44:37
Speaker 4: I was living abroad, so there was no proper support
44:41
Speaker 4: system in place.
44:42
Speaker 3: All those issues were there.
44:44
Speaker 4: But within the family, I have had absolutely no problem
44:49
Speaker 4: with my two kids blending, and even now both of
44:53
Speaker 4: them are not with me. They have gone abroad for
44:56
Speaker 4: their education, but both of them went together. When the
45:00
Speaker 4: elder one had to go, the younger one just went along.
45:03
Speaker 3: She said, I cannot stay away from my sister.
45:07
Speaker 4: So I'm a little jealous of them, sometimes envious of them, because.
45:13
Speaker 3: The bond between the sisters is.
45:16
Speaker 4: Much stronger than probably probably much stronger.
45:20
Speaker 3: Than the bond either one of them has with me.
45:22
Speaker 3: And I realized that's how it should be, because.
45:25
Speaker 4: They are the ones who are going to be left,
45:27
Speaker 4: you know, even when I leave them, leave this world,
45:31
Speaker 4: they are going to be together. So but I must
45:34
Speaker 4: say that when it comes to the largest society, even today,
45:38
Speaker 4: I do get questions. In fact, A Black, I hope
45:41
Speaker 4: I'm not taking too much of your time here, because
45:44
Speaker 4: you know.
45:45
Speaker 2: I.
45:47
Speaker 3: On this topic, I could just go on and on.
45:50
Speaker 4: At that time, that is, in two thousand and eight,
45:55
Speaker 4: when I registered for adoption, I had a lot of.
46:00
Speaker 3: Systems, even from the system, you know when am I audible?
46:08
Speaker 1: Yes, she was just people were popping in and they're
46:10
Speaker 1: saying hello and good evening and hire everyone, and I'm
46:13
Speaker 1: so glad you are able to join us. One of
46:16
Speaker 1: the questions that I, well, you should. You should be
46:18
Speaker 1: very proud of yourself for one to be able to
46:22
Speaker 1: have them bond the way that they have bonded. So
46:25
Speaker 1: you did a wonderful job with that. My question is
46:29
Speaker 1: if your daughter had been older, say she was maybe
46:33
Speaker 1: twelve or thirteen years old, would the government had asked
46:36
Speaker 1: her how did she feel about another child coming into
46:39
Speaker 1: the home. Well, I didn't, or they would have.
46:44
Speaker 4: Okay, the you know, we have this process called the
46:49
Speaker 4: home steady.
46:50
Speaker 3: So yeah.
46:53
Speaker 4: In fact, in this case, too Black, my daughter was
46:57
Speaker 4: actually when things find finally worked out for me it
47:02
Speaker 4: was she was around five and a half. My elderman
47:05
Speaker 4: was around five and a half. So the social worker
47:08
Speaker 4: did meet her too. The social worker who came to
47:11
Speaker 4: do the home study did meet her and spend about
47:15
Speaker 4: ten minutes with her, asking her you know how you
47:18
Speaker 4: felt about it and everything. So I'm sure if she
47:22
Speaker 4: was an older child, probably it would have been a
47:25
Speaker 4: more in depth process.
47:27
Speaker 3: That does happen. They do meet everybody as far as possible.
47:32
Speaker 4: I understand that they also meet the extended family. In India,
47:37
Speaker 4: you know, there are still joint families with grandparents, so
47:41
Speaker 4: as far as possible, the home study takes into account
47:45
Speaker 4: the extended family as well to make sure that everyone
47:48
Speaker 4: is on board.
47:51
Speaker 2: Love if I also, if I also, if I've had
47:54
Speaker 2: one in the situation here, you know, if the child
47:59
Speaker 2: is older to be placed in adoption, the regulations also
48:03
Speaker 2: state that the child has to consent to be placed
48:07
Speaker 2: in adoption. If the child is above six years of age,
48:11
Speaker 2: the child has to stay if she wants to be
48:14
Speaker 2: placed in adoption or not. If the child says she
48:17
Speaker 2: is comfortable with where she is that is the institution
48:21
Speaker 2: or postcare or whatever it is, the child cannot be
48:24
Speaker 2: forced into adoption.
48:26
Speaker 1: Oh wow, that young six years of age making a
48:29
Speaker 1: life decision like that. Well, you know there's some bright
48:33
Speaker 1: six year olds you know out there and Ruby, sorry
48:36
Speaker 1: not Ruby. Last week you were saying how you've got
48:39
Speaker 1: some pushback from adults. Some of those adults should think
48:43
Speaker 1: like some of the children and be able to accept
48:47
Speaker 1: embrace because I was hearing it. Some Indian public figures
48:52
Speaker 1: have openly adopted children, helping to normalize the adoption in
48:55
Speaker 1: the eyes of the public. Have their openness reduced the
48:59
Speaker 1: stigma their family bond? Family bonds can drive outside of
49:02
Speaker 1: biological times.
49:05
Speaker 2: Absolutely, you know, there are many celebrities come forward to
49:11
Speaker 2: adopt children and a lot of adoptive parents, you know,
49:17
Speaker 2: ordinary adoptive parents became advocates talking about adoption, and the
49:23
Speaker 2: social media made things much more easier for people to
49:28
Speaker 2: understand how things go on. Before social media, you know,
49:34
Speaker 2: there was hardly any way for anyone to know how
49:38
Speaker 2: adoption takes place. Even today, as that we were stating earlier,
49:44
Speaker 2: there are many people who are unaware of the processes
49:46
Speaker 2: of adoption. So definitely these celebrity adoptions and advocacy, social
49:52
Speaker 2: media and awareness by the governments made things much more
49:59
Speaker 2: less stigmatized and it's open. If I may put it
50:04
Speaker 2: into perspective as I speak to you now today, that
50:08
Speaker 2: is first of November. The available number of children in
50:13
Speaker 2: a country of our size, our government portal is about
50:18
Speaker 2: little over two thousand children in the entire system I'm
50:21
Speaker 2: talking about, but the number of parents that are waiting
50:24
Speaker 2: to adopt them is above thirty five thousands. So that's
50:32
Speaker 2: the mismatch that we have. You know, not many children
50:36
Speaker 2: are coming into the system because the economics of the
50:39
Speaker 2: families have improved over a period of time. At the
50:43
Speaker 2: same time, the awareness is also increase. The awareness is increased,
50:46
Speaker 2: so a lot more people are coming forward to adopt children,
50:50
Speaker 2: but there are not many children in the system.
50:54
Speaker 1: And that's a wonderful thing, you know, to hear that.
50:57
Speaker 1: So the decision to relocate to India, who was personal
51:00
Speaker 1: and rout it in a profound sense of purpose. Before
51:03
Speaker 1: this shift, you spent years working in the US. Ruby,
51:07
Speaker 1: can you tell our listeners why you decided to relocate
51:09
Speaker 1: to India to start this work.
51:13
Speaker 2: Just like Lemis and I didn't go on talking for
51:16
Speaker 2: hours about this topic. You know, my wife and I
51:20
Speaker 2: were living in Texas in a town called Love of Texas,
51:23
Speaker 2: working as physical therapists and after we got before we
51:28
Speaker 2: even got married, I always told my wife that I
51:30
Speaker 2: have two things to do in my life. One is
51:32
Speaker 2: to be able to adopt children and to be able
51:34
Speaker 2: to relocate to India at some point in time. But
51:38
Speaker 2: you know, like every one of us, once we settled
51:41
Speaker 2: down in the US, you've become so comfortable and you
51:45
Speaker 2: tend to forget everything else. And then for eight years
51:50
Speaker 2: we didn't conceive. So then I started talking to my
51:54
Speaker 2: wife about adoption and she was okay with it because
51:58
Speaker 2: we agreed before I married. And then we ended up
52:01
Speaker 2: adopting my first daughter in two thousand and one and
52:07
Speaker 2: second child came in two thousand and four. First child
52:12
Speaker 2: was escorted by the adoption agency to the US because
52:17
Speaker 2: they had some issues of lea at the workplace, so
52:21
Speaker 2: the child was escott. The second child, I had to
52:24
Speaker 2: come to take the child to the US, so I
52:27
Speaker 2: came and took the child. I saw the condition, and
52:30
Speaker 2: I know my country quite well because when I went
52:33
Speaker 2: to the US, I was twenty six years old, so
52:36
Speaker 2: I lived for twenty six years before I left, so
52:38
Speaker 2: I know my country quite well. But that was an
52:42
Speaker 2: eye opener of the conditions that the children were in
52:46
Speaker 2: an adoption agency, and something was telling me that I
52:50
Speaker 2: must go back to India to do this work hands on,
52:55
Speaker 2: you know, block all these years, I have been talking
52:58
Speaker 2: to myself and to many people that I'm going back,
53:00
Speaker 2: and including my wife before marriage, I told her that
53:03
Speaker 2: I need to go back to in there. But when
53:05
Speaker 2: that part came to my mind, someone telling me to
53:09
Speaker 2: go back to India, I began to resist. I said, no,
53:14
Speaker 2: I'm so comfortable here. You know, I have this, I
53:17
Speaker 2: have that, I have bank balances, I have a house,
53:19
Speaker 2: I have cards. I said, no, I don't want to go.
53:24
Speaker 2: And then over a period of time, this voice I
53:27
Speaker 2: was hearing became louder and louder and louder. I just
53:30
Speaker 2: couldn't head it. I told my wife, you know, if
53:33
Speaker 2: I don't go back to India to do this work,
53:36
Speaker 2: I think I would be one unhappy soul in my grave.
53:39
Speaker 2: So then my wife also said yes. So that's when
53:44
Speaker 2: we relocated back to India in two thousand and six.
53:46
Speaker 2: So primarily it is our children who inspired us, and
53:52
Speaker 2: also knowing what I know about my country and if
53:56
Speaker 2: I may also add one more element, that is my
53:58
Speaker 2: own childhood. I have grown up in a children's home
54:02
Speaker 2: for twelve years, from my fifth grade until I finished
54:05
Speaker 2: my graduation bachelor's degree. I grew up in a children's home.
54:10
Speaker 2: So putting all these things together made absolute sense. This
54:15
Speaker 2: is something I wanted to do. And you know, professionally,
54:19
Speaker 2: we were doing quite well in the US, and personally
54:22
Speaker 2: we were doing quite well in the US. But this
54:26
Speaker 2: calling that I was hearing, this voice I was hearing
54:29
Speaker 2: in my head, just wouldn't let me stay in peace.
54:32
Speaker 2: And in two thousand and six, as a family, we
54:36
Speaker 2: sold a house. We sold all the electronic gadgets, everything
54:40
Speaker 2: to put everything remaining things to put it on it ship,
54:44
Speaker 2: and then we did in February of two thousand and six.
54:47
Speaker 2: And since then, I've been working and I can't tell
54:51
Speaker 2: you the joy I get doing this work. You know,
54:55
Speaker 2: for me, my work is much more therapeutic than anything else.
55:00
Speaker 1: So I'm so glad that you decided to listen to
55:04
Speaker 1: the voice in your head, because many people don't. They
55:07
Speaker 1: just think it's just a voice in the head. And
55:09
Speaker 1: I am so happy that you have. Before we wrap
55:12
Speaker 1: up by just a quick question how do you or
55:15
Speaker 1: how do India protect against human trafficking?
55:25
Speaker 2: You know, we have because there's rare lot. The number one,
55:28
Speaker 2: the number one, the number one mechanism we have is
55:31
Speaker 2: the government enabling by making enabling legislations and providing systems
55:38
Speaker 2: to implement those legislations. So we do have very strong
55:43
Speaker 2: legislations on the books, but where they seem to fade
55:48
Speaker 2: is the enforcement, you know, enforcement not being strong or
55:54
Speaker 2: we you know whatever. I think we have the systems
55:59
Speaker 2: in place, but we are not able to endport you know.
56:02
Speaker 2: But we are still growing. We are only a country
56:07
Speaker 2: of seventy plus years of independence and we are making
56:10
Speaker 2: our own legislations and amending legislations, you know, making the
56:15
Speaker 2: enforcement stronger. So we are getting there, but we are
56:18
Speaker 2: still a step behind, I would say. So answer to
56:23
Speaker 2: your question is through legislations and enforcements. And of course,
56:25
Speaker 2: you know, people like Lutch, me and I we talk about,
56:29
Speaker 2: you know, the field that we are in with whatever
56:32
Speaker 2: the that we know to tell people okay, this is
56:35
Speaker 2: the right way to do this is the wrong way
56:37
Speaker 2: to do. So there are so many people creating awareness
56:40
Speaker 2: also and now the social media and all these things
56:42
Speaker 2: are playing a role.
56:43
Speaker 1: Also, Oh boy, I'm so glad that you guys are
56:47
Speaker 1: so thank you, thank you, thank you for the work
56:50
Speaker 1: that you're doing there in India because it does affect
56:53
Speaker 1: us all no matter where we're at. I before we
56:57
Speaker 1: wrap up, I lovely our listeners to know how they
57:00
Speaker 1: can support you and your work. Can you share any
57:03
Speaker 1: specific ways they can get involved or help, whether it's
57:06
Speaker 1: through donations, volunteering, or spreading the word. What are some
57:10
Speaker 1: options available for those who want to make a difference.
57:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, Black, thank you so much for asking the question,
57:16
Speaker 2: because see, our adoption agency is a very unique adoption agency.
57:21
Speaker 2: Because my younger daughter being born as a child with
57:24
Speaker 2: special needs, I have a very soft corner for children
57:28
Speaker 2: that are available for adoption with special needs. So when
57:31
Speaker 2: we requested the dormant for license, we ask the license
57:35
Speaker 2: to be given only for children with specialists, which means
57:38
Speaker 2: we don't accept children that are healthy. We only take
57:42
Speaker 2: children with special needs. And my alma mater here in
57:46
Speaker 2: town is a hospital. Medical hospital provides medical care to
57:49
Speaker 2: them at low costs. So we try to provide medical
57:54
Speaker 2: care and rehabilitative services as much as we possibly can
57:57
Speaker 2: make them optimum. At my present, them at an optimum
58:01
Speaker 2: level to the parents to accept them in India, but
58:04
Speaker 2: if they can't, they go abroad. So in this process,
58:08
Speaker 2: the costs to take care of a childhood spatial needs
58:11
Speaker 2: are much more higher than a healthy child.
58:14
Speaker 1: So is there is there a place that they could
58:22
Speaker 1: reach out to you or a link or number or something.
58:26
Speaker 2: That you can get. That's what I'm coming to you know.
58:29
Speaker 2: Our website is www dot India Folk House dot O
58:35
Speaker 2: R G I N D I A h O P
58:38
Speaker 2: E h O U s E India Hope Hosts dot
58:41
Speaker 2: co RG and there are links on the website that
58:44
Speaker 2: they can go and make a donation.
58:47
Speaker 1: So that's India Hope House. And if you didn't get that,
58:49
Speaker 1: you can definitely reach out to me because I had
58:51
Speaker 1: a lot of that information as well, because I've been
58:54
Speaker 1: doing a little.
58:54
Speaker 2: Research on it as well.
58:56
Speaker 1: And I want to before we go off the air,
58:59
Speaker 1: I want to thank you know, our listeners for chiming
59:05
Speaker 1: in and for viewing us. Shanett, thank you, Patrice Trevida
59:11
Speaker 1: Young and Heart Media Group, thank you, thank you, thank you,
59:13
Speaker 1: and Diana Jones thank you. But most importantly I also
59:17
Speaker 1: want to thank you lash Me and Ruby for being
59:19
Speaker 1: such wonderful guests on the podcast. Your insights, passion and
59:23
Speaker 1: advocacy for adoption, My gosh, was truly inspiring. It was
59:28
Speaker 1: a privilege to hear your stories and the share and
59:30
Speaker 1: meaningful conversations that can make a difference in so many lives.
59:33
Speaker 1: I am grateful for your time, openness, and for bringing
59:37
Speaker 1: such value perspectives to our listeners. I definitely am looking
59:41
Speaker 1: forward to more conversations like this in the future because
59:44
Speaker 1: we do talk to each other and I appreciate it.
59:47
Speaker 1: We are here and then us celebrate in National Adoption
59:51
Speaker 1: Month and this is one of my favorite months, along
59:55
Speaker 1: with May which is National for Corster Care Month. So
1:00:00
Speaker 1: I want to know just quickly, do you celebrate National
1:00:04
Speaker 1: Adoption Month in India?
1:00:07
Speaker 2: Yes, we do, and what month is that? Is that? Also? Wow?
1:00:12
Speaker 1: So it's a worldwide thing. It's a worldwide thing. So
1:00:16
Speaker 1: that makes me. It makes me more than happy. So
1:00:18
Speaker 1: if anybody can't tell, I'm just in love with the
1:00:22
Speaker 1: fact that people are opening their hearts and they're loving
1:00:26
Speaker 1: homes to taking these children. And it doesn't matter where
1:00:30
Speaker 1: you're at and what country you're in, people are still
1:00:34
Speaker 1: doing it. And I just want to thank everybody for
1:00:39
Speaker 1: joining in and being responsible citizens and taking in these
1:00:45
Speaker 1: children who didn't ask to be born and didn't ask
1:00:48
Speaker 1: to be in the situations that they're in. I'm not
1:00:51
Speaker 1: going to fault any families. For those who know that
1:00:54
Speaker 1: they can't take care of their children and they're bringing
1:00:56
Speaker 1: them to an organization or agency to let them know
1:01:01
Speaker 1: that they tried or they cannot do it any longer.
1:01:05
Speaker 1: Thank you for those that choices or other things, I
1:01:09
Speaker 1: ask you to just locate an agency and just try
1:01:13
Speaker 1: to talk to them say if they can give you
1:01:14
Speaker 1: the support that you can possibly get. Thank you again,
1:01:19
Speaker 1: everybody for tuning in tonight to Basic Black after darg
1:01:22
Speaker 1: please join us on Sunday, which is my bonus day.
1:01:26
Speaker 1: Little bit. Third, we will be chopping it up with
1:01:29
Speaker 1: doctor Carolyn Stevens after eight after Doc. Thanks everybody, didn't
1:01:34
Speaker 1: have a wonderful night and be safe,