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12 Months to Marathon - Episode 9 - Is Zone 2 a Fad? · 12 Months to Marathon

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to the 12 Months of Marathon Podcast with me, John Hill, the running podcast for over 35s with Marathon Dreams.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Episode 9 coming at you.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: This one I think is going to create conversation, and that's good because I want it to, because it's quite a relevant topic at the moment out there in the old running community.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm going to talk about it today.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: The title of today's episode is Is Heart Rate Zone Running a Fad.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll get into that in a sec.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: So what's going on with me at the moment?
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right, so I'm currently training for high rocks.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: As I mentioned before, that's in October in Birmingham.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: So we're well in the throes of that.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's going quite well.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: I've been working a little bit on my thresholds, really, which obviously links into heart rates and things like that.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: So what I'm trying to do at the moment is work on my weaknesses and work on the things that I think I need to work on for the disciplines involved in high rocks.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Running, I should be okay with.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: Then I've got my 10k on the 15th of September in Worcester.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: That was where I did my half, my current half marathon PB of 124.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, we're gonna have a little dabble, I think.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: We'll have a little go, we'll see how we go.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I don't want to make any promises, um, but we'll see.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I am gonna have a go at a PB, I think, for my 10k.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll see how we go there.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: So that's currently where I'm at at the moment, and I'm also focusing a lot on trying to focus more on rest and recovery.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: Since I've been in Poland my two weeks, I realize that actually I need to focus a little bit more on rest and recovery because I neglect that a little bit, and while I sleep well, I don't sleep enough, and I can sleep a little bit more.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, this is gonna help me, and there's some other bits and Bob's been doing as well.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a quick update on me and where I'm at.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Right, so what I'm gonna talk about today is zone running, heart rate zone running.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: Particularly, you you've probably seen the zone two stuff on social media and people talking about it a lot in the different heart rate zones, and I'm gonna give you my take on this.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: Now, a couple of bits of background really.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, I've been in the fitness industry, quote unquote, fitness game for 15 years.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: I started losing weight myself nearly 20 years ago, 19 years ago this month, funny, roughly in 2020.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I've kind of seen it all, heard it all, and done it all.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I know where this kind of comes from.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: It originates from that many years ago, if you ever joined the gym and did a gym induction, you would have seen on the equipment, you would have seen the the zones, the fat burning zone and the cardio zone and all that business.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: So that's where I think that's where this kind of comes from.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and secondly, what I'm gonna talk about, and well, I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna say this here just to give you a bit of background.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: So if if you've ever read Rick, a guy called Richard Dawkins, who's one of the world's famous, world probably the world's famous atheists, he wrote a book called The God Delusion, and it's quite a fascinating book to read.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: And when you read that, my interpretation of this, and again, I'm I'm maybe wrong here, but this is just my opinion, is Richard Dawkins is hasn't really got a problem with religion, he's got a problem with dogma.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to set that as a theme here.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm gonna be focusing a little bit more on the dogmatic side of things versus the actual elements themselves, and that will become clear when I talk about it.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I'm gonna set the scene here.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: I saw a post on Instagram a few weeks ago, and it had a picture which was talking about whatever you want to call slower running, and the comments had been turned off or limited.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: Now, usually comments are turned off on posts that are controversial, politics, that sort of stuff, where everyone's going after each other.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I've been in the fitness industry, like I've said, for a long time.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: I've been part of personal training groups on Facebook where literally you've got a group of personal trainers arguing about nutrition versus actually going out and helping people that need to help need to need the help.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: That makes sense.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because arguing in a Facebook group isn't helping obese and overweight and unhealthy people fix that problem.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it doesn't, and literally, I don't know and I mean going for each other, calling each other idiots and everything.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: So the comments have been turned off, which tells me that potentially people have been going for each other about the pace in which you run at, which for me is absolutely baffling, and we wonder why normal people don't want to get into fitness and exercise when people are arguing and getting personal about how fast you run, because that's all we're talking about here, and I want to say that right off the bat.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: We are talking about how fast you run and how slow quote unquote you run.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: That is what we're talking about, and this is where the dogma comes in because we're labelling this stuff when really all we're talking about is fast and slow runs.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: So if you are doing something that's working for you, don't let me or anybody else stop you.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the key.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I've said this before on posts on Instagram 12 months to marathon, make sure you follow me.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Where I've said, if something's working for you, never let anybody tell you otherwise, as long as you're not affecting anybody else and it's working for you, keep doing it.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: What I'm seeing a lot of is people have said to me, I'm worried about my heart rate with their running, and when I've spoken to them, that the reason why they're worried about it is because they've followed this sort of zone two thing and they've read a lot into that, whereas they wouldn't have been worried about it if they hadn't have read up on this thing.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, what does that tell us?
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: Does that tell us that it's a problem, or does that tell us that we've made it a problem?
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, I saw this stuff come into prevalence after I'd done the Birmingham half marathon in May, uh, yeah, May, and I did the Birmingham Half Marathon in 126, and I felt okay.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: But my heart rate was, I think, 90% based on these metrics.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I felt okay though, so I didn't go back and go, oh, my heart rate was a bit high because I felt okay.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'll tell you what I think is a more important measure in a second, but I didn't think that because I'm not dogmatic and I think that people should run based on how they feel, versus oh no, um my heart rate's too high.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: Now, disclaimer, big disclaimer here.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: This is not talking about medical conditions or medical advice from a doctor.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: If you've been advised by a doctor about anything or a cardiologist about anything to do with your heart, then that's the person you need to speak to, not me, not any sort of running coach or anybody on the internet.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: You've just got to be careful that you don't get caught up in fads because I think that zone two is a fad.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because I've been in the fitness industry for 15 years and I've seen every single fad going, everything from shake weight, Google that, it's outrageous.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: The thing you put in your mouth to decrease your fat on your face, and you chew it, and it looks very inappropriate, and that's an established company.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: And just Google it on Amazon face muscle exercise thing.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: The workout fridge Zumba, which still exists, but years ago it was everywhere, and it it you've got uh uh wobble boards wobble away, you know.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: There was these shops popping up everywhere by me, they've gone now.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: These are fads, okay.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: And you've got to identify a difference between a fad and a trend, okay?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: So a trend is something like, for example, Hyrux.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mentioned Hyrox.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: Hyrox now is a trend because a lot more people are doing it, and then a lot more people, a lot more similar things are popping up.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: So potentially that's a trend, yeah.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: But I think this is a fad.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'd I because I think, well, what did we do before we knew this information?
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: People were running sub four minute miles, sub-three marathons, doing all these things before we knew this information.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: Again, disclaimer in case you're going to lose your sugar, honey, ice, and tea here.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: If it's working for you, keep doing it.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: But be careful about fads and be careful that you don't think there's a problem when there isn't one, okay?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's what I see here.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: I see people panicking and worrying when it's when they have no reason to, because they've not been told by a cardiologist or a doctor that they've got a heart problem.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: So why are they worried?
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: I've never been worried about this.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: What I concern myself with is two things.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I concern myself with VO2 max and my resting heart rate.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: So my resting heart rate I have monitored for years because that's important.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: Now, a few weeks and months ago, I did an experiment with Birmingham City University about the effects of prebiotics on exercise-induced stress, and part of that was a VO2 max test and a sub-maximal test, which was 20 minutes on a treadmill, at apparently 80% of your maximum.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I was at 80% of my quote unquote heart rate, but I was not at 80% in terms of how I felt.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't, I was at, I was I was going at a pace that wasn't 80% for me, it was probably more like 60.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, based on how I felt.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: Now, the interesting thing here, the reason why I raised that point, is because my Garmin matched their heart rate monitor, both pretty much on VO2 max, but also more importantly on heart rate.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: So, what I was doing, I was looking at the heart rate that McGarmin was telling me versus the heart rate that the actual monitor was telling me around my chest on their actual tech, and obviously they've got high-tech stuff there, because it's a big university, um, and it matched it perfectly.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: So, what that tells me is that McGarmin matches a heart rate monitor.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: So, get yourself a Garmin basically and say if you want a heart rumor.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: But what I focus on is my VO2 max and my resting heart rate, and I've always focused on my resting heart rate for common sense purposes, first and foremost, because I think, well, if your resting heart rate's low, that's saying that your heart's not working very much when you're not doing very much, and when you're sleeping, which is a good thing because your heart's a muscle, and you want to work it, exercise, and then rest it so it recovers, and you want the beats to be slow.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: My resting heart rate currently is 37, that's the lowest it's been for a while.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: My VO2 max is currently 55.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: Now, my VO2 Max has suffered a little bit.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's because I went from high ROX training to marathon, straight into marathon training.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: So it took a bit of a walloping.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: I've had it up at 58, it's currently 55 based on Garmin.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, so I need to get I'd like that to be 56, 57 ideally by the time I get to high ROX in October.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: Now, the reason why those two measures are more important for me, number one, resting heart rate I've explained.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: If your resting heart rate is low, then that's a good sign of longevity because your heart's not working that that much at rest, which is a good thing, and I've been obese, so I understand the benefits of that.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: And secondly, VO2 max, because that's a really good sign of longevity.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: Because obviously, if your heart's working efficiently, then you would hope and and and wish that it would work efficiently for longer.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, for me, a better two better measures are resting heart rate and VO2 max.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if you want to measure your heart rate when you're running, absolutely knock yourself out, that's fine.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: But don't jump on a fad and and and you're running slow, you're running slower.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's what you're doing, and it's certainly not worth arguing on the internet about because you're running slower.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's what you're doing.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're running faster, you're running faster.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: When I've done all my PBs, I haven't gone, oh, I wonder if this is tempo pace.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: I've just ran how I felt.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: When I did my sub three, I went, How do I feel?
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I I'll always remember 15 miles.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: If you know Manchester Marathon, coming out of Altringham, you come down the hill, and I hit the flat and I went about 15-16 and I went, This is on.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I sped up because I knew psychologically it was on.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing to do with my heart rate, nothing to do with anything else, it was to do with how I felt.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't checking anything, I just how do you feel?
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: Felt fine, and I put some pla in place some other psychological things to help me as well.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: So this is no means a critical.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm saying it like this because again, it's content it shouldn't be contentious.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's like some other stuff that's happened over the last few years that all of a sudden's become controversial to talk about, and it shouldn't be.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: We should be able to have a conversation about things.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: And if we are turning off comments and calling each other names because of how fast we are running, we have a problem.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: Number one, because we are scaring people when we don't need to, number two, because we're perhaps focusing things on things that aren't that important, and number three, we are making running less accessible to new people because we are arguing about performance-based stuff when we don't need to.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: Again, if it's working for you, knock yourself out 100%.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: But I just my thing is about warning people against fads because I've seen fads before and they are dangerous because they you know they they they're disappointing, is the word I'm going to use, because you you follow this fad, all of a sudden it fizzles out, and it's like, oh, what do I do now?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you focus on consistency, and consistency is the only thing that matters.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I could go on about this because I think the print the key principle for me is just just be careful around the way you approach things and what you focus on, because what you don't want to do is think you're doing something wrong when you're not, and that's a problem for me, and that's what I want to guard against here.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what I think about heart rate zone running.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's much better to go on how you feel because you here's another example.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: So let's say you have a good night's sleep and you wake up and you check your watch, and if you watch tracks your sleep and it says you had a bad night's sleep, you'll convince yourself you had a bad night's sleep, even though you feel like you've had a good one.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's how powerful the human mind is.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what I'm saying.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're doing a tempo, no, not a tempo, if you're doing an interval session, right, running-wise, you're training for a PB, and you're doing intervals and you feel and you feel and you're running at an interval pace or a fast pace, and you go, I feel like I could do more here, but your heart rate's telling you that you can't.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: But based on a watch, uh that for me is questionable.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: That for me is questionable.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: With the uh again, the disclaimer of unless you've been advised by a professional or a cardiologist.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: So that's my take.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, limited takes.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: I want to like I said, I do want to keep these podcasts pretty short and sweet and punchy.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: So that's my take on zone running.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: Just be careful about fads.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: And if you need any help or support on any of this stuff, just reach out and let me know.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I appreciate you for listening.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate all the support we get and the interaction, particularly on Instagram 12 Monster Marathon.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: Don't forget to hop over there and drop me a follow.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's all appreciated.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: You can see what I'm doing, and I'll always answer questions uh in the comments.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I've been doing recently, I've been answering questions via reels because I think some of the questions that I get are quite good, and I'll answer them as best as I can without sending people down the garden path because I don't think it's right to give specific advice on social media because I think people sometimes need to get help from a coach.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and if you that's you and you want to speak about some coaching, or you want to speak about our fantastic running community, just let me know we can have a chat if we can help you.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: If we can't, well, at least you ask the question.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, don't forget to drop me a follow over there on 12 months to marathon.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Don't forget also to like and share this podcast, uh, follow the podcast wherever you get your podcast from.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'd really, really appreciate it and share it with your friends.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much for listening.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate every last one of you.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, enjoy your running, and I'll speak to you next week.