Latest / Curiously Guided Podcast / Ep.91 | Why is Everyone So Bad at Communicating??? with Shay & Mariah

Transcript

Ep.91 | Why is Everyone So Bad at Communicating??? with Shay & Mariah · Curiously Guided Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Curiously Guided Podcast.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: We're your hosts, Mariah and Shay.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: Two online business strategists passionate about rewriting the rules to success within both life and business.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: This podcast started because we both felt frustrated by the lack of deep, meaningful, and transparent conversations around what it takes to actually run a business that we both feel good about.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: So we decided to create that for ourselves.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: We want our solo episodes and guest interviews to be examples of how you too can chase your dreams and go down your own rabbit holes, ultimately leading to a more sustainable and fulfilling life.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: We believe that curiosity is our superpower.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: And trusting the nudge is a muscle that's meant to be strengthened.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: Especially if we want to create a lifestyle that feels good from the inside out.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: So are you ready to open your mind and let curiosity guide the way?
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: Let's take this journey together.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: We're so glad you're here.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Now let's dive in.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, welcome back, my dudes.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad you are joining us for this episode.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: I am struggling here.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: This is a topic that Mariah and I have wanted to shoot a podcast episode about for some time.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's something we both get really riled up about, but thinking about creating a title for this that actually will make you guys click on it is um boggling my mind at the moment.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're here, thank you.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm grateful for you.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: And the topic today is all about communication and healthy communication, how to communicate well.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was just laughing with a friend yesterday who walked into a room and was just yelling, you know, why are people so bad at fucking communicating with each other?
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's so obvious.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like that a lot.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think Mariah feels like that a lot.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, unfortunately, the idea of communication and talking about it, it feels a bit like fluffy.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's a big topic.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's honestly something I'm kind of annoyed by.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I don't want to talk about communication.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, even as I was prepping for this episode, I I pulled out a book that um I did a book hub last year where we talked about this incredible book that was blowing everybody's mind and it such a game changer, and it was all about communication.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if communication is something for me that I feel like I had to learn early, and I feel like I'm good at it.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: So to me, a lot of things in this book were just so obvious.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, what are people talking about that this is mind-blowing?
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: But um unfortunately, I don't think we're good at communicating.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's a lot of stories that happen, um, a lot of judgments that go on.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so today I kind of wanted to share a little bit about how to communicate.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I do think this is like a zone of genius for me.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: When I was like 23 in my first job, they would take me to these meetings with like all the mayors and government officials in the whole region.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: And they would the I was at the meetings because people that were notoriously difficult to deal with were better when I was around.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: So this is just kind of something that I, I think being like a sensitive bitch, am like passionate about, I really like communication.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's an art to it.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I I've been in a relationship with my husband for over 20 years now.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: We've learned a lot about communicating.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I just wanted to dive into the episode today and kind of share some real examples of why we communicate and why communicating is important, especially in business.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: But um, to continue the theme of this whole season, we this will come out out of order, but we just interviewed the lovely Michael Sype yesterday, and we were talking a lot about what happens when you don't communicate, when you have feelings and you stay silent, or maybe you explode about them, but you don't take it to a healthy place.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, of course, like they've done all these studies about when there's better communication in the workplace, you know, your people are more productive and you're making more money and there's less safety incidences because people are communicating.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: But deeper than that, when we are not expressing ourselves and speaking about things that we feel are important, our physical bodies will react.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so, this book, even though I did not love this book, I it's a great book.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you would love it, but it talks about when we don't communicate, our immune systems are threatened.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: There was a study done.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they studied, let me read this couples who had been married an average of 42 years by comparing those who argued constantly with those who resolved their differences effectively.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: It turns out that arguing for decades doesn't lessen the destructive blow of constant conflict.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: Quite the contrary, those who routinely failed their crucial conversations had far weaker immune systems and worse health than those who were able to effectively resolve conflicts on their own.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: So worse immune system, worse health.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: They're you're more likely to get life-threatening diseases.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've also seen a lot of doctors, they'll have them predict who they think is going to get some kind of life-threatening disease and desire uh die quickest.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: And they always choose the the meek person, like with their hands crossed in their laps, the person that's like sitting and nodding, and that the people pleaser.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so what science is now telling us is that when I'm a recovering people pleaser myself, and I have definitely not expressed what I wanted and not communicated in the right way.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: And what we know is that when you are repressing your feelings and your thoughts and not communicating for yourself, the body keeps a score, right?
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: The body's gonna keep track of that and it's going to communicate with you in some way.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so that way may look like a twitching eye, like it has for me in the past, or hip pain, but it could also look like bigger diseases in your body.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I just want to stress to you guys how important it is to be able to communicate for yourself, to advocate for yourself and what you think is important.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: And that is why I want to have this conversation.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: Shay, I feel like you could just do this whole damn episode by yourself, girl.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: You are fired.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: You're like on one today.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: Which is funny because this was your idea to do this episode originally.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I originally was like rolling my eyes at it, but then I woke up this morning like, no, I do have a lot to say.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm over here giggling at just like the way that you're delivering this.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I could listen to you talk about it all of the time.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: But I took a lot of notes, so yeah, it's it's an interesting topic for conversation because just like what you said in terms of like why are people so bad at communic?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: I've me and Andrew say that to each other.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: I say I say that in my head about him.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, say it to everybody type thing.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody in my life, why why is everybody so bad at communicating?
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then I do feel like it's obviously easier to notice these patterns and issues when it comes to other people's styles of communication.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then we forget that we are also playing into the role of being bad communicators.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: And like, I'm not saying that like nobody is a good communicator.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: I do think that you are very, very good at it, but it also I think is dependent on the context of like who you're in communication with, what is the situation that you are in?
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because notoriously, we all have blind spots when it comes to this, but it's very easy to be like that person sucks at communicating versus like, hey, how can I deliver my message a little bit better?
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that like with that, along with our nervous system, how regulated we are, are we actually in a really triggered place?
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because we know through science, and I don't have a book to like back this shit up like you do, but essentially it's like science proves that if you are in flight or flight, or your nervous system is like going off, you are not in a logical brain state, you're not in the logical part.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like then we can easily not communicate well.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: We're shutting down, we're operating from emotion, and like it's not that emotion is bad or anything like that, but it's like just another reason for us to be aware of ourselves.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: Everything comes down to awareness, everything in life, I feel like.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: And everything is so individual and everything is so layered.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I like this podcast because like being able to look at something and take it apart and come at it from different angles, that's what we need more of.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: And before we get too deep into the rabbit hole, can you A tell me and our listeners what is the name of the book?
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, the book is called Crucial Conversations.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to say that I've had so many people who I respect really be mind blown about this book.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I also go back to it as a reference point.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's a lot of really good things, like we talk about data, like where they're bringing in science and studies around the importance of all of this.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll link to it.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: There's like 10 authors on here.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: I guess it was a collaborative effort, but the name of the book is called Crucial Conversations.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, cool.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna put the we're gonna put the link to that book in the show notes if you guys want to check it out.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: But do you I guess um I'm not sure how the fuck do we want to take this apart?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: Where do we want to start with it?
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like we can start in so many different angles.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, one thing that I wanted to talk about at the beginning here at the top is um, you know, obviously I wanted to say why this is important.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: And this is when you said like, and I said it too, like everybody fucking sucks at communication.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think that is the start of bad communication for all of us, is us assuming ill intent about the other person.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that, you know, I have an example.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: I was trying to think of an example of um when this has happened recently for me.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so what's popping up is like the last stupid fight that I got in with my husband.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm embarrassed to share this with you guys, but I'm hoping that it's relatable.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and basically, I I'll tell you the whole story because I'm gonna reference this a few times.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Around Christmas, my husband and I, my sister-in-law and her partner had a conversation about starting a bowling league together.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so, fast forward several weeks, my husband is leaving for bowling league on a Thursday night.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, What?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, Oh, yeah, I reached out to Katie, my sister, and I signed up for her team.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: She had a different team than she was on.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, that feels weird because we all talked about creating our own team, and it feels like you went behind my back and signed up without me.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: And that's really like out of character for you.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: So another thing to know, I was very much close to my cycle in PMSing.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I initially, and this is how we kind of fight or argue, I'll have a reaction.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so I had more of like an emotional response in that moment, and I was assuming the worst and of his intent.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, he didn't want me to be there, and he went behind my back to do this.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: And to be honest with you guys, I think the advice that you should never sleep on it is some of the worst advice that around.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Because when I am in that part of my cycle, there are a lot of voices going on telling stories and telling mean stories and maybe stories that aren't true.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: So in that moment, I was kind of able to hit with him to notice myself being more emotional.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: And what I said was, hey, there's something here that I am very upset about.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: But right now, in this moment, I'm having trouble with the mental clarity of pulling out what is really important and what is just me reacting and telling a bad story about you when you don't deserve it, to be honest.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: So, what I did there was I cut that conversation down.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: We both went to sleep, and I gave myself a minute to kind of sit with what is bothering me here, and then what is just like cheap shots I'm trying to take because I'm feeling really moody and emotional right now.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think when you are in a conflict, the first step with all of this is give yourself a minute to zoom out and have space if that works for you.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of times I think we have too many conversations.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think we're good at like, oh, this is an important, crucial conversation that I need to have versus this is silly business.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: I don't need to wage this war.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: I can kind of let this go, you know?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think being able to give yourself a moment to decipher, here's really the problem here.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: This is really what I'm upset about, and this is worth it to me.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: This is worth it, it's gonna be a lot of emotional work on my part.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: This feels worth it to have this conversation because if I don't and I repress, I'm gonna get resentful, my body's gonna start reacting, right?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I just press the escape shoot in that moment.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, getting out of this plane, we're not talking about this tonight, we're gonna sleep on it.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because for me, that's what I need to do.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think that advice is good if you think of it as like, don't just not have an important conversation and like avoid it forever.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like at some point, you need to have it if it feels important.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're riled up in the moment, you got horror modes going on, you got all kinds of stuff, like have some self-awareness, like you were saying.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, get out of that situation, give yourself a moment.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: So, with him, I gave myself a moment.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: I came back to him, I said, Hey, this hurt my feelings.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: This is the story I started to tell myself, because that seems out of character for you.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: And his response was, Oh, why would you?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, Shay, I'm just suck at communicating.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: I I just forgot to tell you that I reached out to her and she signed me up.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: And and I would love to have you there.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want me to reach out?
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'll get you on the team right now, you know?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so I needed a minute to kind of sift through the emotional reaction and come to him with like, hey, here's what hurt me about this.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: This is why I feel like I want to have this conversation.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: And here's the stories that I have going on in my head about what's going on right now.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so I then he could reflect back to me, like, hey, that's just a story that your brain plugged in there.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: Here's what actually happened.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: And and I had to remember that I know him as a person.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: He does not have ill intent, like he is not conniving.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's very out of character.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: So it just I needed a minute to like get the emotions out of it, let the dust settle, and come to him with more of a, I think you just have to find the common ground.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I had to come to him more with like, hey, I have all these crazy stories going on.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: This is not what I think I know about you, but there's conflict going on.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: Can you help me understand?
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I think when you can come in from that, a curious place, a place of I don't want to assume the worst about you, but I do want you to know like what's going on in my head, that it's all about good conversation, it's all about creating safety for everybody involved and not making the other person feel attacked or villainized.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if you can assume the best about the other person and and try to find where they are coming from, because it doesn't fucking make any sense to me.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: And if you don't see it in that moment, take a minute.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: But you have to find the common ground between you and the other person to have that um healthy conversation.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm glad that we started here and you gave that story because like that's really important to remember because like we're so locked in in that moment that like we only are thinking about our feelings.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: We're forgetting that there is another person in this conversation that is probably getting triggered or just like uh activated in some way, and now they are also showing up, probably not in the logical part of their brain.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so then you just have two illogical people coming from emotions, and who knows where those emotions are coming from?
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it's so easy to be like, I'm right because this is how I feel, when really it's like, yes, that's valid, and also that person feels right because of how they feel.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: It is so difficult sometimes to be able to see that in the moment and to remember that like this is not how I want to continue this conversation.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking of a very recent fight that me and Andrew have, and like we typically communicate very well, except it was this time we we had to wake up early, we had a farmer's market, we had to like he woke up at 3 a.m.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: to bake a bunch of bread.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: He was, he, it's interesting with the sourdough business.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: His uh perfectionistic tendencies come out where I don't really see them in a lot of other things that he does.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it's interesting.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and he also doesn't have experience in this business to have like the muscle of utter confidence all of the time.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so he kind of relies on me to like, hey, can we talk this out?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: And like he really wants to like brainstorm.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: And like, that's one of my favorite parts about having friends or like partners in business, like with this podcast.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you have somebody to bounce ideas off of.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so he woke up.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: I woke up three hours later to help do X, Y, and Z.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: We ended up getting into a fight about like, oh, it's so silly when I fucking say it out loud, similar to what you're saying about the bowling thing.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: I am icing the cinnamon rolls wrong.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm putting the icing on incorrectly.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: I am zigzagging it over.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: He thought that we already had a conversation four days ago where we agreed that we would not do that, and we agreed that we would put it on the cinnamon roll and spread it so it looks like it was like kind of like a glazed donut type thing.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: I completely forgot about that conversation.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: And also, I have another business that I run full-time.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: I am always making decisions.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: I forgot about this fucking decision.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: He got litty titty over this.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was like the end of the world.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so then me, he's starting to like raise his voice a little bit.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: I can tell he's getting activated.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just like, what the fuck is I don't think that it's a big deal.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's a fucking cinnamon role.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what is the issue here?
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so then I notice that when I'm in that place, I just shut down.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying anything.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: I just start crying.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: So now he feels like I'm not taking in anything that he's saying.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so then I start to feel angry.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: And what do I do?
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: Repress all of my anger, just allow myself to cry.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: I say nothing, which then makes him even more mad because I'm shut down.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so this went on for way too long.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: Later that day, after the event, we didn't settle it going into the event.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: Basically, we kind of just like pretended like it didn't happen.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: Afterwards, I come home.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm fucking exhausted from holding all of this in.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: I go upstairs doing exactly what you said.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like I didn't sleep on it, but like I had to take time for myself.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, listen, I have to reflect now that I've calmed down, I'm not so activated.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: What is the issue here?
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: My logical brain turned on.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, let me assume, like you're saying, can I see it from his point of view?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: What was he assuming from me that allowed him to step into this like very emotional state and whatever?
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so I got really clear on like why I reacted that way, why I think he reacted that way.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so I went downstairs, uh, started crying again because uh naturally that's just what I do.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: And he was like, oh my God, like what's going on?
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, we have to talk about this.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: And he wanted to too.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: And basically it came down to he thought that I was just appeasing him a couple days ago.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I really wasn't like listening and like giving his business idea the attention that it deserves.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: So he thought in the moment I disregarded what he wanted and I just did whatever I thought was best, or I didn't really think his idea was a good idea.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just did whatever I wanted to do.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: And he assumed that like I didn't give a fuck, essentially.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: I was just willy-nilly, who gives a fuck type thing.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, that is literally not what, like, where I was in that moment at all.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it was such a good reminder for both of us to be like, wait a minute, we're both people that like love each other and we want the best for each other, and we're trying to do our best, but he had to give me some grace because I was like, I forgot.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like, if I didn't take that time to come back, like you're saying, and get really honest and clear and bring up to him exactly where I was, what I was thinking, and all of that, and also what played a really big role in this is my childhood.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: I reacted and completely shut down because that's how I've always handled conflict.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, as an adult, when anybody like gets mad or I see it, I'm just like, no, I want this to end immediately.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so I will just completely shut down, which is annoying to him because in the moment he's like, Can't we just like get this figured out and like get it over with, like whatever, and kind of move on?
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: For me, I'm like, I'm so activated right now that like I'm not even taking in what you're saying.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so then, even after that conversation, I had to like go back in and kind of work on myself of just like getting clear on what pattern am I bringing through, specifically like from my father, and that I am projecting onto Andrew.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just assuming that Andrew is now mad at me and like screaming, and he wasn't screaming, but it's like I felt like he was.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like making these connections really allowed me to be like, wow, I have a really deep role in this too.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't just I think that he gets mad too quickly, which also stems back to his father.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like it was that.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: But we were just sitting there fucking projecting onto each other.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: And if we didn't take a second to come back and to get clear and to ask honestly, What can I do to be a better communicator and get my needs and my feelings across?
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: This would have never been resolved.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: And also, it would have just like you were saying, it would have festered.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then in our next conversation, I would have been like, well, he's always yelling at me and he's always trying to make me the bad guy.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, no, the fuck he wasn't.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: But that would have sat there as like a layer underneath every conversation.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I just would have continued to be added to over and over and over and over and over again.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then I would have just been self-validating that, like, I'm the bad guy, or he is the bad guy, or like we're not on the same team here.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like then you run into that issue too, where now everything's just compiling on top of each other, where it's like, I know that having hard conversations is fucking hard, but you have to so that the next conversation isn't harder.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think what you're saying about finding the stories that our brains are filling in the gaps with is the fundamental skill here.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you asked where to start, and I think where to start is finding the common ground and remembering that nobody is the bad guy.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of us are taught to be scared of conflict.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: And this is what crucial important conversations are.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's conflict, right?
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: That we're actually going into and choosing.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I can see like it's natural in conflict.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: What do we think?
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: One side's good and one side's bad.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so we're trying to villainize the other side so we can be good and we can be right.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: But really, I think going into it, remembering we're both the good guys and there's a win-win here, but we've got to find that common ground is the excellent starting point.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: And usually it starts from there with okay, what crazy ass stories has my past trauma with other people or past conflict with this person?
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: You actually said something there that I have fallen victim to quite a bit in communicating.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: And this is something I still struggle with is using absolute language.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: So with Bobby and I, um, when we're fighting, I'll find myself saying, You always do this, because I'm thinking of past fights we've had where the same, when you're in a long relationship, you'll realize you just have kind of one fight in different formats over and over again, which I think is normal.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's how humans come together and grow from each other.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: But um I I I'll use that always language.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: You always do this, you always do that.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then he'll grab onto that and say, I don't always do this.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: Let me give you these examples.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then I'm like, Well, shit, we're not even talking about what I want to be talking about.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: We're talking about, and it's because I use absolute language.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that skill of quickly being able to be like, this is my friend, this is my lover, this is my partner, or whoever it is, my business person, like finding the common ground and seeing them as the good guy as well is really a helpful place to start because then you have to start jumping into um the real painful stuff, which is how is my past programming and their past programming coming into play right now.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think what you said is so important.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: We keep learning over and over, you are not in the front logical part of your brain when you are wound up in emotions.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: You are in more of a primitive kind of react type place.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so you being self-aware enough to notice that about yourself or your partner, hey, I kind of think about it as someone's drunk.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: I won't talk to people if they're super drunk because I'm not gonna like waste my breath.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: I don't feel like they'll remember.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like when you're in that super activated place, it's similar.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: You're not gonna have a logical conversation.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna have a logical conversation.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: Instead, we're gonna go off on all these weird little tangents and focus on things that aren't really important and kind of take little jabs at each other due to past stuff.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: So instead, maybe it works best for you.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: This is the case for me.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: I need to separate, I need to figure out what's real and what's not real.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then starting with those stories.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, in this book, they say there's like in this event sequence, there's four things that happen.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like, first, you see or or you hear something that upset you.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then your brain starts to tell a story about what happened there based on your past experiences.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: Then, based on what your brain is saying, your body starts to feel things, right?
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's when the emotions come in, the anger, the hurt, whatever it is.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: But that's all based on a fucking story that you made up, which may or may not be true and probably isn't.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then from those feelings, you act, right?
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the chain of events, like stimulus, tell a story, I have a feeling, and then I act.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you can kind of, I'm referencing Victor Frankel all the time, but if you can kind of have some awareness in between stimulus and reaction, that's where your freedom is.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's where power is.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I really think that starts with your ability to see those stories as what they are, which is made up.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that's very, very difficult in the moment when things feel so powerful and so serious.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: But like my brain immediately went to a story that this man who has loved me unconditionally for 20 years doesn't want to spend time with me and then doesn't want me on his bowling team, right?
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: And in his brain went to Shay has an injured shoulder and probably doesn't want to bowl.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's just what his brain did.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so he's like, I don't, she probably doesn't even want to do this, right?
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so we'll talk about two different stories.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: There's two different realities going on there, and I'm coming in hot because I believe the first one.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that that idea of what story and your ability to then take that back to like past and how past experiences have influenced, I think is really next level and very helpful.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: But even if you can't go that far, um there's a really helpful tool that this lady Byron Katie shares.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and there's basically four questions you can ask yourself when you're in a moment of like, what the fuck?
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: Why?
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's hard to find the common ground.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like at in that moment, I could not see another reality where this man was kind and loving to me.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: It was only the bad one.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: So there's this series of four questions we can link to this from Byron Katie, where she has you go through and ask yourself when you're in one of these moments where you can't see the other side and you're really struggling with that empathy piece.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: The first question you ask yourself, is it true?
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: I love this question because my snarkiness is like, of course it's true.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that will be the human reaction.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why the second question is also, is it true?
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: Which is powerful.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, because your first asshole reaction is to be like, yeah, it's fucking true.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Of course it's true.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always fucking right.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I have a good sense.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm intuitive.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but then when you ask yourself again, okay, is it really true?
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know for a fact?
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: Do you and and I you can never really answer that as like, yes, I know exactly what's going on in Bobby's head right now, and I know why he made that decision.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: No, you can't.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: And typically that's always going to be the answer is like, no.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so then the third question is, could the opposite be true?
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: Just could it?
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: Could there be a world where the opposite of what you're believing is true?
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, there always could.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then the fourth level is what if other realities were true?
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: Not even the opposite, like what could be other situations that could have have happened here?
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, just giving my brain the moment to disconnect with the story that I initially assumed was true to, hey, could there be other realities here I'm not considering?
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: That is what I need to kind of loosen up the grasp.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: And once I can remember, oh, well, this could have been happening.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, this could have been happening.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, maybe, well, this could have been happening, that gives me a bit more spaciousness and it helps me kind of get into that person's shoes a bit more, if you will, and consider that, like, hey, maybe this train that I'm on that's on the path to destruction isn't on the right track.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there's other choices I could make here.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that that's really powerful.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I also think what's what's really, really helpful for me too is remembering the quote of just like, it's not happening to you.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: What if it was happening for you?
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's really helpful for me because I'm like, I kind of look at it because I will go and I'm just like, I'm right, you're wrong.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: And Andrew's like, I'm right, you're wrong.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so we're both right, and we're both wrong.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm just sitting here and I was like, what if I just play into what can I learn about this situation?
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: What about the situation is kind of pointing the finger back to me.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's like that age old thing, don't point because when you point at somebody, you got three fingers pointing back at you.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's really stuck with me for some reason.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that I am naturally a little bit more self-reflective than a lot of people that I come in contact with.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's really helpful for me to kind of put the spotlight back on me and be like, hey, what can I learn about myself here?
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: That feels like something that I have control of.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: That feels like me taking my power back.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: That feels like I'm not gonna have somebody tell me what I meant.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: Instead, I get to go through this like questioning process of like, what can I learn about me, my communication, what I could do better.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: I will say that being in a relationship, especially with Andrew, and the way that we balance each other has been like business has been a personal development project for sure.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: The number one mirror for me has been this relationship with him.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because I feel like I made it up until we dated, going through life, where people really wouldn't question me too much.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: I got real good at like being real confident in my perspective, delivering it well, being real smart, being self-reflective enough, whatever.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like I did not realize that I could only go so far being self-reflective without the mirror of somebody else.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: I have learned about so many fucking blind spots that I have through this relationship with him and in a safe container.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think that that's a big thing too.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like all of this doesn't mean shit if you don't value the person, care about their opinion, if you don't want to work on communication with them, if you aren't committed to taking action after the conversation and showing that that conversation stuck.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, if you're not both in it to win it, I think that that's why we keep using like partnership relationships.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: We both have committed to each other to do this long term.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that like that helps do this too, because like that's important is to like have a ground of safety and a supportive container, even though when you're activated, you might not feel safe.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm speaking from my own perspective, like I don't feel safe in that situation.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I have had to communicate that with Andrew and like through these difficult conversations, even like conversations with friends.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just like, like, for some reason, I don't feel safe right now.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that like you have to come back to that foundation of safety.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, you can't move forward.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like that's an important thing to consider too, is like you're not gonna get back to your logical part of your brain if you don't feel safe, or if you don't respect the other person, or if you're just like fighting on the internet to strangers, that you're actually like, this isn't gonna fucking go anywhere type thing.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're right.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you brought up a point that I wrote down of choose your battles.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I there's some people that I'm meeting these days that seem like they're looking for fights.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think there's another side of this where look at yourself.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: Are you constantly kind of picking fights with people?
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was at a resort in Mexico and I had a very bizarre experience with a woman that I think she just had gotten calm and in a calm place and didn't know what to do with it.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: So she literally spent an entire afternoon just like picking weird fights with people at the pool.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of us have gotten into that state of like, this is normal.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so one thing I think is important about this is choose your battles, like all of this stuff that you get wound up about, someone cut you off in traffic, you know, like your pants came in the wrong size.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen people have their whole weeks derailed about little shit.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think having the skill of it's that idea we talk about of like, we're just a little speck of dust in a gigantic universe.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: And like, are is what you're wound up about right now really important?
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: Or is it you are feeling a lack in some other place and you're picking fights to stay distracted, right?
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I think having the ability to decipher what is truly important in a crucial conversation versus what is ego and what does me just want to act out or be mad because I'm mad about something else is really a skill.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's a skill, and also I just find myself, I guess, going to the opposite end of the spectrum where like I see so many things as not a big deal.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think you and I are on the opposite side, and that's something that I would like to be better about.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: Of like, I was in the hospital with Bobby, and these people were my husband was really sick right at the beginning of COVID, had bad heart stuff.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: The people in our room had had COVID and weren't wearing masks, and I was very scared because the doctors were telling us COVID could be a long-term heart thing.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't say anything to them.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I wanted to say something, like, hey, please put on your mask.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: I feel scared, and I didn't.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that that is like an example of me being the cool girl.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: I was, oh, it's all cool, it's all good, let everything go.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the kind of shit that I think is creating disease in the body, and then that leads to disease.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't, I always have that example of like that was an opportunity of something I felt was important and I didn't express myself and I regret it.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't want to be that girl.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to be the, oh, it's all good, it's all fine, go with the flow.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: Cause like I am like that most of the time, but there are some things that are important to me and I need to express myself.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like having the confidence to do that is important as well.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: So that's I think I brought that up because I think there's people on all sides of the spectrum, but for us, like kind of recovering people pleasers, giving yourself permission to go into conflict can feel kind of wild.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I think that there's and like I think that we will bounce to different levels of the spectrum or different sides of the spectrum, depending on what the actual situation is, too.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because in some situations, like I remember me and my friends were um traveling to Iceland, and I remember we rented a car, and we ended up getting the extra insurance, and we're driving on these fucking shitty ass roads in Iceland because we decided to take a road trip and like God knows where we were going, truly.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: These roads were shit, and like a stone popped up and hit the windshield and ended up like creating a little crack in the windshield.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, we're not gonna worry about it.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: We got the extra insurance, whatever.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: So we get back to the car place, you know, we're getting ready to like hop back on our flight.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: We drop off the thing.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: They take a look, and the guy was like calling us out on the thing.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: He was basically like, You're gonna have to pay extra money for this.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: We were all broke, like, we all put this entire trip on our credit cards.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: We were in our young 20s.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: We were like, this is gonna gut us, like, absolutely not.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember I felt this like inner fire.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: I would compare it to like mama bear energy.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: I ain't a mom yet, but like that mama where I'm just like, you're not gonna fucking.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm just like, you're not gonna take advantage of us.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember being like, show me in the actual insurance policy that I signed where it doesn't say that windshield is covered and he couldn't find it.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so I remember getting like very certain, and he kept like trying to like take me on this ride of like using his words to like spin me around.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I just kept coming back to, but where is the fact?
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: If you can point it out in the contract, I will gladly put this damage on my credit card, but you can't point it out.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: And the fact that you keep running away is giving me clues that you're talking out of your ass or that this is how you usually take advantage of tourists.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so I am very proud of myself for standing up in that situation.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: But then on the other end of the spectrum, this is literally such a fucking stupid story, but for some reason it sticks with me as like the example of when I couldn't stand up for myself.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: Me and me and Andrew ordered burgers.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: We did take out, okay.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: We ordered burgers.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I got charged for it because I wanted like sweet potato fries or something, big sweet potato fry fan.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I wanted sweet potato fries, and I don't remember the exact situation, but I remember them like not giving me the fries or forgetting the fries, and then I wanted to come back and they were like, Well, you basically like have to pay again.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like I essentially it came down to like I didn't get what I paid for.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then she, the girl at the front counter ended up trying to spin it on me, like that's my fault.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember walking away and being like, Oh, whatever.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'll just, you know, it's it's not a hill I want to die on.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's not worth it to me.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to get all riled up, like, whatever.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: I end up coming home with the takeoff who dandruff, telling him, and he was like, I will get into that fucking car and drive back right now.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: They took advantage of you.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's not okay.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: How are you not pissed about this?
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember being like, it's not like a big deal.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't want to make it a big deal.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to be a bitch.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I just, it's not a big deal.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: And to this day, I regret not standing up for myself because, like, as a consumer, what do you mean I'm not getting what the fuck I paid for?
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: But it's such a good example that comes to me.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, your example of not saying something is like far more important in terms of like health and all of that.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: But like, this is something that sticks with me so much.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: Where sometimes I'm like, is this the French fry incident, or is this somebody like cutting me off on the throughway where it really doesn't matter?
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what am I trying to avoid here?
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, am I really avoiding the conflict, or like is it really not a big deal?
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: Or am I just trying to people please because I don't want to deal with it and then I'm just gonna internalize this fucking anger, anyways?
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm internalizing my lack of self-worth.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that's hard to know in the moment, especially.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you brought up something that I didn't think I would rant about on this episode, but I think a lot of us, women at least, or I'm scared of being called Karen.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I hate the Karen language because I think it encourages a lot of us to silence ourselves over things that feel important.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what exactly what crossed my mind in that hospital room.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I don't want to be a Karen.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then same with you in that burger situation.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's not really that big of a deal.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: But the problem is when you do that over and over and over again, you're communicating to your body that like my wants and needs are not important.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you brought up something else that I think is important with conversations is being able to, I don't know how to say this gently.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: You need two willing participants, and a lot of times the other person may have some narcissistic tendencies.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they're probably good at spinning things around because they're getting defensive and they don't want to look bad.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so you also have to be able to realize like, is this crucial conversation happening with someone that's going to be willing to make changes?
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: Or in in the case of that hospital room, I probably would have pissed them off and it would have turned political or something.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think any resolution would have come.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: But at least I would have felt like proud of myself for standing up for myself.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I could have added that to my like example of confidence boosting times.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think there will be a point when you're arguing, you may realize the person on the other end isn't at the same level as you are in the same place, and they not, they may not be willing to make constructive changes or even capable of doing that, right?
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: So don't, if you're in a in that situation, like don't beat a dead horse.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, maybe it's not worth it for you to go and digest and journal and break it all down because that person is not trying to find the common ground and create safety, you know?
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think having that awareness is important and know that like not all of these crucial conversations are gonna have a good output at the end.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: You may be dealing with someone that's not willing to make any action or chain action, but at least you'll feel proud of yourself that you stood up for like what you felt was right.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that is the more important thing.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think what I have trouble with, and a lot of our listeners will probably resonate with this finding the line between standing up for what you believe and what you think, and being empathetic.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because I can almost twist any situation into like that hospital example with your husband.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: I could be like, Well, you know, they're going through this and they're going through that.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: And like she just wanted to see his wife's sweet smile.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's what he said.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I can be on his side, would no doubt.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean that that's tough.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's tough in situations because like I'll take it back to the burger example.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe this girl at the front thing, maybe she just got yelled at for her boss.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe she's having really bad family issues, maybe her life has been shit.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe her boyfriend or girlfriend's an asshole.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I can think of so many reasons and like communication, it always comes back to my family.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_00: And like it's very, I feel like this is even harder with people, family, friends, people that you're very close with.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: It is hard for me when it comes to specifically my parents to see the line of empathy and standing up.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: For what I believe and I think, or being not aggressive, but like just being assertive.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: Being assertive and being empathetic, I have, it's a very, very hard for me to find the line of like, fuck, I understand, like, I know about my parents' childhood.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: They don't even want to talk about it.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: My parents have gone through extremely traumatic shit.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: And now I can see why that would translate into them being the worst communicators on the face of the planet.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: I will say I have to give my mother props.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: She has gotten like exponentially more fantastic because I have held her accountable and I've asked her for what I needed.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: So it's interesting.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I feel like once it's cool because like once you do the work, once you maybe get clear and allow yourself, it's it's also very helpful to have Andrew to be able to verbalize, to rationalize, and for me to be like, am I stepping too deep into empathy here?
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because he can step far away from empathy and like end up more in the assertive.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that we make a really good balance, which is why it's helpful to talk about it.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but getting his reflection has allowed me to kind of like grow in confidence of like, oh, I can be more assertive here.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm not making this up.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not being an asshole, I'm standing up for myself type thing.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: And that's been really helpful in terms of like communicating with my mom because like she, I know my mother to her core, loves us with every fiber of her being.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: My mom would do anything for her children.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure that most mothers, not all, but most of them, would feel similar.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so when my mom is never taught how to communicate, so therefore I was never really taught how to communicate.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: My mom's never really like looked back at all of her trauma in a in a very deep, meaningful, consistent way.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: But through me standing up and telling her, asking her for what I need.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: So in conversation, sometimes I notice this, I think it's like previous generation shit.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: But like I notice that when I watch my mom and like her best friend that I basically call my aunt, when they're in conversations, they're not even listening to each other.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: All they're doing is spewing what they want to say, which will then trigger the other person to spew what they want to say.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then it just sounds like I did this.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I did this.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it reminds me of being in third grade and being like, Well, my mom is taller than your mom, and your mom is, and I'm just like, this is not a conversation.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: You, neither of you are hearing each other.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so I started to notice it in my conversations with my mom, where I would say something that I want to have a conversation about, like, oh, mom, I started a podcast or whatever.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: And she would be like, I went to bowling.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: I go, mom, we can talk about bowling in like a minute, but like, can you please respond and maybe ask me questions about my podcast because it's important to me and I would like to share it with you.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: And you asking me questions makes me feel like you actually give a shit.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: And she was like, Well, of course I give a shit.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: I just didn't know.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: And like, she's been really good at asking questions.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: And by really good, I mean like a lot better than she was before.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: And we even got to a point in conversation where like I was crying and like I was, I felt safe enough to tell her some things that I've realized about how she impacted me in my childhood.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like I wouldn't have felt safe a couple of years ago doing that.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: She just sat there and she was like, that must have been really hard for you.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry that you had to go through that.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_00: And like, I'm sorry that I wasn't better in the moment.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, girl, what did you say?
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, what the fuck did you thank you?
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then she was just like, I'm really sorry, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: Asked me another question, and then we got to talking about her stuff.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it wasn't like we were wallowing in it, but the simple fact of like she validated, she wouldn't have validated it unless I previously have set the standard of telling her what I need.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because the other thing with communication is like the other person doesn't know what you're looking for.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: They don't know what you need in order to come to a resolution.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I believe that it's our responsibility to be like, I need you to literally in certain situations, like, I just need you to validate.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: I just need you to see it from my perspective.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: I just need you to listen.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_00: Or like, I don't need a solution right now.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just venting.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: I just need you to listen, to validate, and please just ask me questions.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: It makes me feel like you give a shit.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: If I didn't tell her that, how would she know what would make me feel validated?
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: Or like, how would she know what I was craving in a conversation if I didn't tell her what I needed?
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: And she also, being the other party, wanted to make the relationship better.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so was willing to take a look at like what kind of role she was playing here.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like, I think that that's really important too, getting really clear about like how you're playing into this and getting clear on like what you need and asking people.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think that that's really, really crucial.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're so right.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you teach people how to treat you.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_01: And we all probably need something different out of these conversations, right?
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_01: So having the awareness of like, this is what I need and this is how I need it to be communicated is huge.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I actually had another thought, and I hope you're okay with me bringing this up, but thinking about the importance of all of this, you know, you've brought up Andrew a lot in this episode and how important that relationship is.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but when you and I first became friends, you and Andrew were in kind of a different place, and you were reflecting to me some things that you were unsatisfied about, and you were thinking about kind of dipping.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I asked you, I was like, is this real problems?
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_01: Are you just avoiding having a tough conversation?
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_01: And you were like, holy shit, I'm just avoiding having a tough conversation.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's kind of cool now to sit here on the other side and hear you say, like, I've seen your relationship with Andrew, I know how like awesome and how important and valuable that is for your life.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, having a painful, difficult conversation was the key for you to get this insane value in your life, an insane growing opportunity.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so, your point, this whole episode has been like take self-responsibility, you know, like be aware of what you need in the in and why you're doing it and communicate that to the other person.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, having self-awareness, like we say in every single episode, is the biggest skill you can have in this lifetime.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I just want to like round of applause for you for like facing a difficult conversation and then seeing the other side of it.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I appreciate that reflection.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's funny, I don't think that I've shared this on the podcast, but like me and Andrew have been together for five years this winter.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't say I love you until two years of being in a relationship.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that's because both of us were horrified to get hurt.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_00: We were also coming from two completely different ways of communicating.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_00: And like, we'll say, I don't know if he he doesn't reflect on it as much as I do.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I'm just like, we are completely different people in terms of like where we came from.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: I needed that other side of the spectrum to kind of like jar me out of this.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm really glad that I opened up and kind of like would communicate the issues that I was having in the beginning of our relationship because I probably would have dipped.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember like in high school, young 20s, I wouldn't tell friends or people about any relationship, anybody that I was talking to.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted no outside input.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's really because I was just not ready to have a level of self-awareness and kind of call myself out on some shit.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I will say, like, what I've also learned in this relationship with numerous people is the delivery matters so much because think about it.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_00: If somebody's like, hey, why the hell are you doing that?
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_00: versus hey babe, the like I'm seeing this happening over here.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is there a reason why you wanted to do it that way?
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: Completely different instead of I'm always telling you that you gotta do this and you gotta do that.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_00: And like the delivery means so much if you can, and it's not always possible, but if you can come from a space of neutrality, which is why I think sleeping on it or taking space for yourself is so crucial because you have to be able to deliver it from a neutral point in order to come to a resolution.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because even when we're in the moment, and sometimes we don't pull away when we're in like an intense argument or something like that, but then it just keeps escalating until somebody can bring it back to neutrality.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like one part, if one party can bring bring it back to neutrality, you can both take a breath.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_00: And now you can both kind of like deliver the message because the message will land way better when the person doesn't feel attacked, but that also takes a lot of like personal responsibility, honesty, and like self-regulating, which is very hard.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's funny, I had a couple other points I wanted to bring up, and I didn't know how I was gonna do them.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_01: And that's so naturally you like just made the perfect bridge for me.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_01: But I think I wrote down here in my notes like we all know words are powerful, and you need to be careful with how you use your words and be intentional when you're having these conversations.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but what Mariah is saying is true.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think delivery is even more important than the actual words that you use.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've always joked with my husband.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_01: We're we've traveled all around, and I really I've been in a lot of places where I don't speak the language.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_01: And somehow I'm always able to kind of communicate and get what we need.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I always joke with my husband, he's like, How did you do that?
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_01: How'd you figure that out?
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, communication is really 30% language.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's 70% body language, feeling someone's energy, kind of reading the room, trying to get in their shoes, thinking about what they need and where they're coming from.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so I've in Korean that can communicate with the movie worker that's trying to tell us something just through the little Korean I have, the little English they have, and then body language and energy and energetics.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like I really think delivery and getting to that neutral place is the key here.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_01: And the other thing you brought up was at a basic level, guys, like that sandwich advice when you're delivering tough news, something nice, something maybe a little bit more painful, end it with something nice.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_01: It sounds so basic, but that is what's gonna help you in these arguments.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_01: Always start from that place of, hey, I love you.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_01: And this is the other side of this, where we're a really functioning partner and like this is the life I want for us.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_01: And for us to get there, I just want to let you know.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_01: And this is where language comes in.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_01: I've found that using less direct language, like you do this and you're wrong about this, and the way you're like this, and stop being like that.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like when you use very almost like attacking language, what does that do?
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_01: The person's gonna go into defense mode.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_01: But instead, what I like to do is, hey, it really hurt my feelings when I I felt like you went on that bowling league without me.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_01: And this is what it made me feel.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so I try to switch the language always to this is how I felt, and this was my interpretation of what happened.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm hoping you can kind of correct me and fill in the gaps here, but I want you to know when when this happened, this is how it I felt.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so instead of saying, like, you're shit and you did this wrong and you always do this, it's like, no, hey, I think you love me and I think you'd like to know that my feelings were hurt.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_01: So kind of thinking about your language and not using such aggressive language with somebody, but kind of making it all really about your experience.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_01: So instead of stating absolute facts about what happened, hey, this was my experience of the situation.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_01: Am I right here?
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_01: That that I think the worst thing you can do is get mean.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_01: And and I'll be honest with you, like I grew up with I think a family more like Andrew's, where our way of dealing with conflict was yelling and being loud and perhaps getting mean and kind of going for the jugular.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_01: And my husband's family, opposite, very always kind and loving.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_01: We're never raising our voices.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_01: And there's, I think there's pros and cons to both sides, but by being with him, I kind of learned that he's never gonna escalate with me and he's never gonna take it to a below the belt place.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_01: And when you go below the belt, I understand in that moment, it feels good.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_01: God, it feels fucking good because you know, like you know, there are buttons and you know you can do it.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_01: But what you're doing is you're eroding safety and trust for the long term.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I've had friends whose marriages have ended because there was some mean things said during fighting that she couldn't come back from.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so in that moment, I know it's hard when you're emotional, but I just want to encourage you guys like even when you have those thoughts of like, oh, I could really get them right now, don't like, don't get mean.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I think my ability to realize, oh, that's a mean thing I'm about to say, I'll probably come through my childhood.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_01: Let me rein it in.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like being with him and seeing that other people resolved conflicts differently was so healing for me.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just what kindness and love.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_01: I know that sounds so basic, but um, if you guys can come in with that sandwich idea of like, how can I make this positive, deliver the the meat, and then end it on something positive, like that's a very effective way of communicating with someone and not taking it to a very like aggressive, mean place that's gonna cause permanent damage.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like when you think about the sandwich, sometimes you're like, wow, that sounds really like appeasing.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just saying, I'm just like leading it with something nice to like appease the other person, and part of me would be like, Well, I don't want to just say things to like appease them, but like I think that the way to do that is correct be because think about how you like to be talked to.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think that that's the thing because part of it, I could I can hear an argument in my head where I'm just like, oh, well, I'm gonna say something nice just to deliver something mean and then end it with and it's well that's you checking in with your intention.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that it comes down to like, do you actually give a shit about the relationship that you're in and remembering how you like to be spoken to?
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_00: Doesn't it feel a lot better when somebody comes from a neutral spot and they're like, hey, I love you and I care about you?
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_00: And lately I've been noticing that I'm feeling X, Y, and Z.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_00: I love you so much that I want to work on it.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_00: That'll that is like a really good example of like the sandwich in action, and it doesn't feel appeasing.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, I think that sometimes the initial thing, depending on who which person comes to mind when you're thinking about this, you're like, I ain't doing the fucking sandwich.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_00: They don't deserve the sandwich.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like if you care about the relationship, just remember how you would like to be spoken to and like the way that you deliver matters.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that the other thing is like that comes up with communication and why it's so important is because otherwise the other person doesn't know.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, I'm just gonna go back to that, but like they doesn't they don't know how to help you meet your needs.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like, sometimes we feel like if we don't say anything at all, that's actually better.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like, the example is like, you know, when you're like trying to figure out somewhere to eat and you're asking somebody and you're like, Where do you want to go to eat?
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, I don't care.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so like you really don't care because you're not communicating, like what kind of food?
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_00: Are you feeling Mexican?
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_00: Are you feeling Italian?
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what kind of food are you feeling?
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_00: You want burgers, you want wings, you want a salad, a soup?
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what what do you want?
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_00: And they're just like, I don't care.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_00: The person saying, I don't care, is like, wow, I am so easygoing.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really give a shit.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_00: And but the other person is like, well, I wish that you just communicated, at least told me what you're not feeling, so that we can kind of come to a decision together if we're both going to be in this experience of going out to eat instead of making me try to read your mind and figure it out.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_00: But then I choose, let's say we're gonna go out for Mexican, get some burritos, and then you're sitting there like like in your head, but you won't even say it.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really want burritos.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that falls on you because like you're not meeting me and communicating your needs or what you're feeling.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I just feel like sometimes we can get into this like communication rabbit hole of like, I don't care.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then that becomes a habit of you not caring.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then it we think that we're being so easygoing, but it's actually making communication even worse.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and then we're sitting around wondering, why don't I know what I want?
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_01: Why do I have no aim in life?
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what I really want.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it's because, like, oh, well, consistently over time, you've told yourself it doesn't matter.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_01: What I want for dinner doesn't matter.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm cool, I'm easy going.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_01: And that just adds up.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_00: It adds up for sure.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that sometimes, like, sometimes I really don't give a shit.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not, I'm not craving this.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_00: The same thing with watching things on TV.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_00: Andrew cares more about what we watch on TV than I do most of the time.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_00: But I have to be honest about when I do care.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, I actually want to watch this.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, cool.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_00: I need to still communicate that.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_00: I just notice it a lot with like the older generation, the generation of like that have been told kids should be seen and not heard.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_00: I went through this experience with some uh some family recently, and like grandma was sitting there and she was kind of just like, I don't care, I don't care, I don't care.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it actually made like us making decisions to hang out with her 10 times harder because it's like, I wish that you at least like, do you want to go out to eat?
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to get takeout?
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_00: What kind of food?
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like something.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like that really was another kind of eye-opening experience of being like, I'm on the other side of this, I'm usually the I don't care person.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_00: But then I notice how annoying that can be consistently over a long period of time, over and over and over again, because it's like, listen, I want to do something that makes us both happy.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_00: You can't not care about anything.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's just like it's an important thing to kind of realize.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what I'm seeing from like an outsider perspective in that situation, you and Andrew wanted to give her something special.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, she was in uh an old folks' home.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_01: It was Christmas time.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_01: You wanted to get her out and let her have some time.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so she was almost blocking your guys' ability to give her something in that like reciprocity that's a really beautiful.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_01: The whole point of all of this, guys, is we are all lonely and craving more in-depth relationships.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like loneliness is the biggest epidemic in the US right now, and it's like killing us worse than smoking three packs a day, says the Surgeon General.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so we all want these moments of connection with each other.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_01: We want to give them and we want to receive them.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_01: And when we're not communicating, honestly, we're kind of shutting the door on all of these attempts to connect and to give and receive.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's all very basic human things.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_01: We need community to stay healthy.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_01: We want to give to people, we want to get back, we want to have dynamic relationships.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_01: And that doesn't happen when you're not being honest and not communicating for what you need.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I really like I you challenge me, and I appreciate that.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_01: And you're right there.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think part of this is analyzing yourself.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_01: What part of the spectrum do you think that you're falling on a lot?
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_01: Is it typically a bit more, I'm good, go with the flow, people pleasery, or is it more, it's my way or the highway.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_01: I know I'm right, we're doing it my way, right?
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, are you happy with where you're at on the spectrum?
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_01: Is there possibility to maybe get back back towards center?
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I do think that at different phases in life, we can kind of play different roles where we're either kind of engaging in conflict that doesn't need to happen, or we're avoiding conflict because it feels tough, right?
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_01: And and both sides can kind of lead you to not great place.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I think just like allowing us to reflect on a situational basis.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because like we've both given plenty of examples of like how we show up on different sides of the spectrum depending on which situation we're in.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_01: Or we're part of the cycle that you're in that day.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_00: Be aware of that.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like, I think it's just important to not beat yourself up and just take it as data points and notice like your internal dialogue.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like after that hamburger and French fries situation, I felt like depleted after.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, why do I feel depleted?
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I feel like a like I've been beaten down.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, why is that?
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so that was a sign for me of like, how could I do this better?
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_00: What do I really need?
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_00: What do I wish was different about this situation?
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it just comes down to giving yourself space to come back, to notice your emotions as like data points and just allow yourself to ask yourself, what could be better?
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_00: What did I learn?
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_00: What am I craving?
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like strengthening that muscle can help regardless of where you are and in what situation it is.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm really walking away with from this conversation, remembering like the self-responsibility piece.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_01: This is all a gift.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_01: All of these opportunities are chances for you to grow.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_01: What a blessing.
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like maybe we could think about this as um a wonderful thing that's happening for you, like you said at the beginning of the episode.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_01: And what are you meant to learn here?
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_01: And we've talked, Mariah and I never want to vilify emotions.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like I know we've talked about getting giving yourself a minute to get in your logical brain, but your emotions are going to be your first responders, and they are such valuable data points to for me when my emotions show up like that.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's the sign that hey, there is something important here.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_01: This is not easy going Shay is gonna let this go.
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like that.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_01: The sign when I'm getting riled up, and I personally just need a minute.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm an emotional gal, like I need a minute to let that settle.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_01: And and but those are data points, those are really, really valuable data points that something is important to me here and valuable.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_01: And and so don't be mad about your feelings if you're that's normal.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's always gonna happen to all of us, and I think it's a it's a balance, like all of this, it's emotions and logic come together with curiosity, of course.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_01: Ask questions about yourself to your partner.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think Mariah's point is the best of the more you can be aware of what you want to walk away with, like what do you need from them to feel good in this conversation?
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, right?
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then can you communicate to that that to them?
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I liked you brought up like I think I'll say I've done the sandwich method a billion million times, and it has never come across as I'm just trying to blow smoke up your butt right now.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because where I go with it is let's paint the future scenario.
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_01: I I here's what I want.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_01: I want a good relationship with you, a healthy relationship, uh, whatever that looks like in that context.
• 1:07:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I genuinely feel that, and they do too.
• 1:07:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's how you're finding that common ground.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I hear you, like the sandwich thing sounds annoying, but I will say, like, honestly, that is I use that.
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that's the skill I use in all of these conversations.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it it is coming from a place of, hey, here's desired future state.
• 1:07:32
  SPEAKER_01: Does that do you agree with that?
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_01: Typically, they will.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, now let's reverse.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_01: How do we get there?
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how we create safety.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's how I remember we're on the same page.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_01: And if someone can't get there with you, then that's a good sign that, like, hey, maybe this conversation doesn't need to happen right now, or I need to say what I need to say to stand up for myself, but then I'm gonna kind of walk away because I don't know that they're gonna take action or willing to meet me there.
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that that's great.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's a beautiful summary.
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like we went on so many different tangents.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, as with all of our solo episodes, I feel like that's my favorite part of the solo episodes is kind of like ping-ponging off of each other, seeing the different perspectives, noticing what's coming up, taking that apart.
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_00: So hopefully, you guys listening, it made you feel not alone.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_00: All of us are on these different fucking spectrums depending on the situation.
• 1:08:23
  SPEAKER_00: Really shitty conversations are happening behind the scenes.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_00: Things are really fucking hard.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's really difficult sometimes to like find that balance of like empathy and like being assertive.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_00: And like, I think it just comes back to what do you want to get out of it?
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_00: Can you give yourself space to get clear on that?
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think that we're ready to close this episode down.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_00: Does that feel good?
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 1:08:48
  SPEAKER_00: So remember, friends, that you have the power to create whatever the fuck you want.
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_00: Follow the nudge, ask questions, and let curiosity guide the way.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see you in the next episode.