Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / [EP 382] Ringo Starr: A Fab Life with Tom Doyle

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[EP 382] Ringo Starr: A Fab Life with Tom Doyle · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: When asked by an interviewer whether he considered Star to
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: be the best rock drummer in the world, Lennon had
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: supposedly carved Ringo wasn't even the best drummer in the Beatles.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: What is the real story?
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: This is a odd thing because people will believe though,
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: because it's a sort of funny line, isn't it. I mean,
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: you wouldn't say it's a great joke, right, because I
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: mean it's not true. And it's true as well. But
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Lennon never said this total rock and roll. I mean,
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: I'll leave you. You're reading little hands this. It's time to
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: rock and roll roll. I totally booked.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Welcome everybody back to Booked on Rock. This is the
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: podcast for those about to read and rock. I'm your host,
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Seric Sanitch. Before we get started, if you want to
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: support the podcast, and you can get episodes commercial free
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: if you sign up for the backstage Pass from Patreon
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: just five dollars a month link in the show notes,
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: or you can go to bookdown rock dot com. Now
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: on to our guest Tom Doyle Well. He is the
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: author of ringa a Fab Life. Tom, thank you so
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: much for being here. It's nice to meet you.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, great stuff, Eric, thank you for inviting me on.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Talking about Ringo. The guy is amazing. We were talking
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: about his new album, which sounds great, and he was
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: on late night TV recently at eighty five. He's got
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: this youthful energy about him. It's just so great to see.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: And it's the same with Paul. It's just inspiring. Yeah, amazing.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: Really, I mean, I think it's one of those things
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: that I mean, it's like Paul's on the cover of
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: the new Module and you just wouldn't guess that he
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: was even in his eighties. Actually, I mean he probably
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: looks late sixties or something, So I mean it is
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: kind of incredible for you know. I mean, I'm sure
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: we'll talk about this, but I mean I think the
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: fact that both of them have emerged from that phenomenon
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: with their sanity intact, never mind their health and fitness
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: of course.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. You lead your book off with a
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty four Zoom interview, also an in person interview
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: from twenty ten. What is it like to have a
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: one on one with Ringo and be in his presence?
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: Well, it's great, obviously, I mean I was a sort
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: of Beatles fanatic when I was a kid, So you know,
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: to be doing all this is just incredible, really, you know,
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: And I mean I've done many things down these I
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: mean I even interviewed Yo Cohono at the Dakota in
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: twenty ten as well, which was you know, I mean,
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: these things are just things that you don't imagine you'll
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: ever do with Ringo. So I mean, I'm aware when
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: I'm interviewing Ringo and Paul that these guys, I mean,
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: I was born in sixty seven, so these guys were
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: effectively sick of being interviewed before I was born. So
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: it's a challenge. It is a challenge. And Paul tends
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: to limit his interviews to thirty minute slots, so you
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: might get a few of them. Ringo limits his to
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: twenty minutes, so that's tough man, right, you know. I
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: mean when I when I interviewed him face to face
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: in twenty ten, I wasn't under any great pressure like
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: pull a cover story out of the bag or whatever,
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: which meant that I could just sit back and have
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: a laugh with him, really, which was great. I was
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: trying to pull a cover story out of the bag
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: with a twenty minute zoom in twenty twenty four, and
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: so the book begins basically with me sort of describing
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: to the reader. I mean, the reader can imagine they're
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: doing it basically right, which is, you have got twenty
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: minute zoom with Ringo. I basically prepared for two days.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: I prepared the questions for two days and whittled them
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: down and numbered them because I knew that, you know,
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: it's I thought, right, I'll probably get through one a minute,
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: maybe two a minute, so I better have forty decent questions,
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: you know. And I say in the book that it's
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: almost like being on a game show when you're trying
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: to get all these questions through, all these questions basically
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: before the buzzard goes. But the thing with Ringo that's brilliant.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: Actually it's a bit like his drumming. There's the odd
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: flowery or poetic moment, but for most part he is
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: just arriving along and you can more or less ask
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: him anything and he will give you a really solid, honest,
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: you know, answer in about two or three lines or whatever.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it's a buzz I mean, if if you
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: think about it too much, then you wouldn't be able
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: to do it, because you would be starstruck it's a
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: beatle man, But really, yeah, I mean once you get
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: in a groove with it and stuff like that, then
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: it's a pleasure. You know, you find yourself having a
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: laugh with a beatle, which you know it's not something
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: that the army would have ever imagined.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: Oh man. Well, Also, the problem is, like Studte mcconnie,
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: author was on recently We're a Beatles bookend. He was
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: talking about the challenge of not asking question because you're
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: you want to ask a question that nobody's asked, but
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: then that you can fall into the trap of asking
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: an absurd question. So do you have ones you write
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: down on paper? You're like, nah, that's that.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: The thing is, I think Stuart He asked him, do
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  Speaker 2: you ever wish for a minute that you'd been in
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: Jerry and the Pacemaker, you.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: Know, the story question? And that's too Stuart, he wrote
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: right there in his introduction, exactly right.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: Yea life if you embarrass yourself as well, that's really
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: fun to run.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: But that can happen though. You want to try to
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: challenge yourself and come up with something that nobody's ever asked,
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: but they've been asked everything, Well.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: I mean one of the good ones, Catlin Moran, who
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: is a famous writer in the UK. I mean she
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: when she interviewed McCartney, she asked him, have you ever
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: thought about getting plastic surgery so that nobody able to
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: recognize you any people? And neither of those questions Stuarts
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: or Catlin's actually went down that well with Paul. I
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: think he maybe saying to people are trying to be
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: a bit too clever as well. My first experience of
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: interviewing Paul because I also wrote a book called Man
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: on the Run, which came out in twenty thirteen, and
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: the intro to that is, you know, basically all the
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: various times I interviewed McCartney and how that relationship progressed really,
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: you know, because the first time I interviewed him, it
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: was only a few days before his divorce to Heather
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: Mills was in it, so he was very distracted and
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: stuff like that, and it was cool to meet him
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: and stuff, but I didn't feel as if I'd really
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: got a proper encounter with him, and so I think
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: it was a few months later, maybe eight months later,
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: that I went and interviewed him in Soho Square at
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: his offices at MPL and before I went there, I thought,
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: you know what I'm gonna be. I'm gonna be a
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: cheeky Scottish get basically and see how far that gets me.
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  Speaker 2: And it did. Actually, it seemed to unlock the Scouser,
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: you know, the cheeky working class scouser. That was him, really,
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: that is him. And after his publicist said, oh, I
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: think he enjoyed that, so I kept on in that vein.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: And that was what was funny, because actually, as time
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: went on, the interviews became looser and yeah, I mean
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: you don't try and ask that killer question or whatever.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: You just basically try and open them up with rapport basically,
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: and a lot of the time because I mean Lucas Beatles, man,
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  Speaker 2: I mean, how funny were these guys naturally funny and
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: Scousers in general. I know it's a cliche, but they
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  Speaker 2: had really funny So if you can tap into that,
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  Speaker 2: then I think it opens things up. And exactly the
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: same with Ringo, exactly the same and he's really funny man,
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  Speaker 2: you know. Yeah, so that seems to unlock That's the key,
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: I believe.
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  Speaker 1: When you describe Ringo as almost a Lazarus figure. So
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: let's talk about that, because he almost died as a
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: child from something called hope I pronounces right, peratinitis is this?
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: I got it. There was a serious car accident years later.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, a couple of I mean a few things, but
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  Speaker 2: even in he's childhood. So peratonitis, as you say, it's
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  Speaker 2: basically it's caused by infection, you know, by your appendix
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: bursting and stuff. Right, So he is struck down at six,
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  Speaker 2: He spends his seventh birthday in a coma. He was
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: in a coma for ten weeks. I mean his mother
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  Speaker 2: was told two or three times that he might not
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: last the night. And then I mean when he's thirteen,
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: he catches flu which causes pleurisy and this develops in
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: ino TB and so he's back in hospital for another year.
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  Speaker 2: So he spent two years of his childhood in hospital.
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  Speaker 2: And then, yeah, as you mentioned, I mean, just just
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  Speaker 2: after he gets put together with Barbara back in nineteen eighty,
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  Speaker 2: they have this terrible car accident in London where I
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  Speaker 2: mean the ringo's thrown clear of the vehicle. Barbara he's
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: worried that she's trapped inside and stuff like that. And
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  Speaker 2: this was very, very close to where Mark Bowling was
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  Speaker 2: killed in a car accident, you know, only a few
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: years before, and stuff like that. So I mean, these
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: are the things that are I mean, the book is
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: basically it's thematic or episodic, you know, so it's I
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: use that device basically to paint a sort of multifaceted poetry,
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: a misaic portrait of him. But I mean these things
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: are so important to the story because I mean, particularly
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: the car accident. I mean, he and Barbara, as I said,
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: they just got together. But I mean it kind of
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: brought them together in a really instant way, you know.
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  Speaker 2: I mean they were so close. It was like, man,
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: we nearly died together. And it's kind of like she said, look,
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: if we can survive this week, can survive anything. And
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: so it proved.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that was shortly before John's assassination. Yes, right, because.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it was a really eventful It was
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: an Anis Haribliss basically for the Beatles, wasn't it nineteen
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: eighty Because you got to remember Paul was imprisoned in
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: Japan after trying to take in some might say foolishly
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: half a pound of marijuana into Japan, right, And so
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: I mean the year starts like that and then at
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: the end of the year Lenin is murdered. And I
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: mean a floater theory in the book, which is that basically,
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: in the seventies, I think all the Beatles as they
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: embarked upon their solo careers were all suffering from different
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: kinds different levels of PTSD from the experience, and so
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: they they deal with it in different ways, Like Marca
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: smokes a lot of pot, right, makes a lot of
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: mad records. You know, John is very busy, but erratically
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: so in the first half of the seventies before disappearing
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: really for the second half of the seventies. George, I
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: mean he basically, you know, it's it's Harry Krishna and
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: all this at the beginning of the seventies, but by
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: the mid seventies, it's cocaine, it's boozing, it's womanizing. And
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: with Ringo, I mean he he had a highly successful
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: early seventies solo career and then by the time it
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: got to about the mid seventies, partly I think because
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: the Beatles partnership, the money that was kept in that
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: one that was frozen with the court case in seventy
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: one that was all sort of unfrozen come the mid seventies.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: So they were then fabulously wealthy. I mean, not that
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: they were not well off before them, but they were
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: really really rich by this point. And Ringo loses interest
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: in making records and he said, you know, I was
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: more interested and getting out of my head. But he
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: continues to make records, right, and the quality sort of
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: goes down by better. Actually, yeah, so, and I mean
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: I think they were all The theory that I have
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: is really they were all kind of recovering from that
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: in different ways. And then Lennon his muther then that
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: plunges the other three of them in a whole different
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: level of trauma.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: Ringo was just eight when he was first entranced by
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: a song at the pictures watching gene Archery singing South
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: of the Border and the big screen as for the drums.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: That image of him staring at the Tom Tom in
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: the shop window, if you could share that story, and
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: how pivotal is that moment in the story of Rindo.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Well, this is amazing, really, you know, because this is
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: before his second hospital visit and he just sees this
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: Tom Tom, which is I mean, I checked the facts
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: from Mark Lewison. And you always know right that Mark
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: Lewson is going to be right about these things. But
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: it does seem as if it was a hell of
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: expensive Tom Tom. But anyway, he's entranced by this drum
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: and when he ends up in hospital he wants to drum, basically.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: And there's like a music teacher comes every week to
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: sort of help these kids out, getting them out into
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: the open air and stuff, and she brings musical instruments.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: You know, there's a triangle, you know, there's a wood
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: blah blah blah blah blah. But Ringo always wants the drum.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: And after she leaves, he keeps on wanting to drum,
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: so he grabs Basically, he finds these long sort of
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: knitting spindles, weaving spindles they are, and he uses these
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: to drum on his bedside cabinet, obviously driving all the
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: other kids. Mad. I mean, I'm a drummer, right, And
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: I was exactly the same as a kid. I mean
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: I just drummed on everything. I mean, mad, Dad and
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: my mom just used to shout at me all the time.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: You go to stop, I see the kick behind you there?
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I've got a few kids. I've got an
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: electronic one you can see, and then I've got an
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: acoustic one as well. Actually, but yeah, I mean I
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: was bitten by the same bug, so I mean I
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: completely understand where he was coming from. And then, I mean,
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: obviously because his education. I mean he didn't let to
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: read until he was about nine or ten, and then
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: after his second hospital about he just didn't go back
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: to school. So he had various sort of jobs and stuff,
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: but really what he wanted to be was a drummer.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: And that's the thing. The Beatles. He was the first
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: to turn pro because he was well known for being
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: a drummer in different bands. And then he joined this
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: band in Liverpool called Rory Storm and the Hurricanes, who
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: were like a show band and they would play. I mean,
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: you don't get holiday camps in America day, but there's
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: a holiday camp chain called Buttling's in Britain which is
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: well known for being it was like where all the
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: working class basically went to let their hair down. So
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: Ringo was the drummer there. This is where he becomes Ringo. Actually,
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: this is where he changes his name and adopts the personality.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: Basically of a star. He starts signing his name with
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: a star and stuff like that as well. But Rory
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: and the Hurricanes, they were kind of they would put
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: it this way, do you know, there was a lot
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: of energy. They were almost like pre rock and roll
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: band or proto punky rock and roll bands. But I
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: mean it was kind of obvious that they were ultimately
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: either stuck in a rap playing at these holiday camps,
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: or that they were actually literally going nowhere. They were
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: going round and round in circles, you know. And this
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: is how he is brought to the attention of the Beatles.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: Basically he taught himself by feel, and you highlight his
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: left handed approach on a right handed kit. How much
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: did that contributed to his uniqueness?
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: Oh, massively, massively, because I mean he said nobody'd actually
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: he didn't know that you could set the kit up
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: the other way around. So basically he sits down and
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: he's playing it being left handed. But what's interesting about that,
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: I mean, not to be too technical about it, but
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: most drummers, if you're right handed, you go in a
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: fill or a roll using your right hand right because
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: you know so. But Ringo always goes in using his left,
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: so you'll start a role on his left, which means
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: that it's usually if you listen to his fills, which
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: are really his and he says to himself, Oh, that's
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: the thing I'm most proud of, actually is the roles
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: the films. You know, they're usually an uneven amount of
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: beats and stuff like that. And so he's quite a
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: unique drummer actually, But the main thing about Ringo is
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: that he's just rock solid and he just drives the band.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: I mean t Bone Burnett, who is the producer of
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: his new Ringos two new country albums. He's a huge
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: fan obviously the Beatles, as well as we all are,
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: and he says that basically, when Ringo joined the band,
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: he put the electricity into the Beatles. And you can
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: actually hear that if you listen to those tracks where
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: they're playing with other drummers. It's okay. I mean, you
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: know Pete Best is okay, you know Andy White when
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: he plays on love Med stuff, it's all right, it's
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: solid and stuff like that, but it ain't Ringo. So
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, obviously he took a real drubbing down the years,
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: right for being supposedly a bad drummer. Or whatever, but
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: it just isn't true. It's just not true.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: It's great to hear all of this in these recent years,
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: maybe because I do so many interviews and I've done
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: a lot of Beatles, covered a lot of Beatles books,
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: I hear a lot about it. Just how good Ringo
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: was and how misunderstood maybe he was as a drummer.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: And it's those types of things that I think maybe
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: people won't normally pick up on, but you know, being
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: a left handed drummer playing on a right handed kit,
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: those types of things, the roles, the drum roll, is
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: that nice like thunderous thunderist drum roll that he has?
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: And you know, you hear people like Phil Collins, was
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: it on? That's all he said? That was inspired by Ringo?
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Oh, actually end if you'd Phil Collins a couple
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: of weeks ago and he was still going on a
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: bit Ringo and the Beatles. Wow.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: Cool. How is Phil Collins doing by the way he's doing?
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: Good man. I mean, I did some sleeve notes for
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: a new box set of Face Value that's coming out,
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: so it was great, but we were able to dig
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: into some of the more unusual kind of influences that
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: went into the album and stuff. I mean, obviously he
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: has his health issues, you know, quite serious health issues,
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: but not he was pretty chipping man. He was all
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: right actually, but yeah, I mean he was talking about it.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: We were laughing actually about the locked groove at the
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: end of Sergeant Pepper, which people will know if you
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: play the vinyl version. It looks and you hear the
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: Beatles doing this sort of scary, sort of non secretter
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: you know, it's it's really heart describe and I said that,
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: I said it. I was like, that used to really
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: scare me, man, when I was a kid. He went,
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: he said, yeah, he says they're coming to get me.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, ive a very little fill is in What Hard
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: Day's Night. You could see him in that documentary.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. He was there when they were filming that.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's so mad, you know.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, talk about the first time Ringo first set eyes
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: on the Beatles. Take us back to that first meeting.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: It's at the jack Aranda, that's right. Yeah, it wasn't
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: impressive first, right, He thought they needed help, not the
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: other way around. Is that true?
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, basically right. The Jacaranda was one of the many
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: venues that had come up through skiffle and stuff. And
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: this is when, I mean, this is when Ringo is
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: in Rory storm and the hurricanes. So he goes into
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: the jack rand walks down into the basement. This is
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: the summer in nineteen sixty, right, and he sees this
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: is the first time that he meets Paul and John
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: who are teaching Stu Suckcliffe their original basis. They're teaching
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: him some lines or whatever. And because he's a bit
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: snobby about them, a bit snooty, right, and the quote
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: is we were the professionals. They were just a bunch
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: of scruffs. And so you see what's going on.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: There, but young and khaki Ringo, Yeah, exactly.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean that never stopped. Actually, I mean, you
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: know this whole chapter A. But you know, people asking
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: Ringo down the years, did you ever feel sorry for
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: Pete Best? And he's like, no, because it was a
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: better drummer. It's so ungracious, right, but it's you know
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: what he is really is. He's quite bluff and matter
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: of fact, and you know, so he'll not go all, well,
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: you know, maybe I did feel sorry for him a bit. No,
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: he'll just say no, it didn't, right, there was a
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: better drummer anyway. So Rory Storm and the Hurricanes get
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: over to Hamburg where all the bands are going, and
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: the Beatles have obviously been there for a bet But
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: then Rory Storm and the Hurricanes and the Beatles they
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: end up sort of, you know, they're playing more than
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: four hours a day. They're all alternating sets in in
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: the kaiser Keller, you know, so there's like twelve hours
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: a live music basically, and so this is where they
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: become friends. And also there's loads of drinking going on.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: You know, they're taking speed pills and stuff like that,
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: which you needed to get through those long sets and
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: stuff like that. And Pete Best this is one of
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: the things actually that I think maybe sealed his fate
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: was that he wouldn't really hang out with them. He
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: would always sort of disappear off on his own, whereas
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: Ringo would often come and hang out with them, or
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: late at night, he would catch the Beatles late night
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: it sets and requests songs. It was always sort of
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: modeling tear and the Beer kind of songs that he
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: wanted the Beatles to play for them, you know. But
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: what happens is basically in nine sixty two. In March,
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: Ringo is in bed at home in Liverpool and gets
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: to knock at the door and it's Brian Epstein saying, look,
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: do you fancy Best phoned in sick? Do you fancy
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: doing a lunchtime set with the Beatles? And then they
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: had to do a gig at night, you know, So
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: basically he sets in with them, and he had sat
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: in with him before because in Germany and Hamburg there
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: was this strange thing where the Rory Storm and the
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: Hurricanes bass player Alan Williams who was managing them, and
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: the Beatles and stuff, and that kind of fancied this
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: guy to be a crooner. So George, Paul John and
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: Ringo record together for the first time in a studio there.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: Pete Best wasn't there. Maybe he'd wandered off on his
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: own again, you know. But basically it is this moment
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty two when they do a gig together,
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: and now George has already been a fan, and basically
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: what happens is they get up there and I mean
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: there's that Ray Charles song what I Say Right, which
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: they later used the beat. It's a really tricky beat.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: I can't play it. Actually it's a really tricky beat.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: And Marcus said that when he was inducting Ringo and
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, he just said, look,
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: most drummers couldn't get this beat right because it's like
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: a syncopated bell sort of ride thing. You know, it's
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: quite a hard man to do with one hand and stuff.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: But when could do it right, and this absolutely blew
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: them all away. And yeah, I mean they all looked
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: at each other and they just knew it was right.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: But through loyalty, you know, because the ties were deep
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: with Pete at this point. Through loyalty they sort of
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: carry on with Pete for a bit. But it's then
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: it's the EMI audition where it's pretty obvious that Pete,
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: i mean actually tap tempoed his version of Love Me Too,
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: and it drops i mean twenty bpm or something like
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: that in the middle eight, which is just it's kind
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: of unforgivable in a professional environment, you know. And I
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: described the Beatles as sounding like, you know, a wind
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: up toy, you know, with the springs Harry Cohen, you know,
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: so they're basically slowing down, you know. And so George
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: Martin obviously spots this and that's it. It's curtains for
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: Pete sadly.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: But see again the importance of Ringer, right, and he
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: comes in and everything changes. But why was he initially
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: labeled the hated Beetle? And then how did he overcome that?
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, it's like, I mean, the Scouts has
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: loved the Beatles, so they were a local band, right,
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: and they were sort of fiercely protective of them. And actually,
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: if you look at the early pictures of them with
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: Pete Best, Pete Best is arguably the throb in the band.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: He is the best looking one. You know, Sorry Paul,
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: but you know he'd and so that's kind of what
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: it was. Actually, it was like they'd kicked out their
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: screen idol or whatever you want to call them, right,
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: So he was the hated Beatle. Yeah, I mean when
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: Bringos first starts playing, and it's actually on film because
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: Grenada TV, the Manchester based TV company, they went up
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: and they filmed the Beatles at the Cavern and you know,
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: you may have seen some of that footage before, you know,
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: I think there's bits of it and now and then
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: there was bits of it in the Freezer Birds video
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: and stuff like that but if you actually watch it,
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: you can hear people going, we want Pete, you know,
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: and then it was like Ringo never, Pete forever, you know,
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: all these things. And actually at this first gig, Pete
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: Best sneaked into the crowd and he was watching this
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: going on. But Paul's dad tactlessly right walked over to
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: Pete Best and said, on TV, isn't it exciting? You know? So,
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: I mean it was really rough on Pete Best. It
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: was really rough, and he was pretty gracious about it
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: down the years. Actually for something that must have been
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: like you know, winning the you know, finding the lottery
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: ticket or whatever that would win your ten million dollars
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: or something like that, and then the next minute losing it.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: That's kind of what Pete's life was like. Actually, I mean,
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: it did correct when it got to Anthology time, because then,
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: you know, because Pete featured on the anthology on a
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: few tracks, you know, it made him a multimillionaire, so
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: he got his just desserts in the end, or he
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: got his just rewards rather in the end. But yeah,
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: it must have been rough for Pete man, you know.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: But yeah, Ringo, I mean, Ringo goes and screws up
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: his first audition with the Beatles at Yemi though. He's
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: really sort of over enthusiastic and nervous and stuff like that.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: So obviously the next time they go back down and
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: George Martin has brought in another drummer, and what Ringo
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: thinks is, oh, man, they're going to do a peak
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: best on me. They're going to kick me out, you know,
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: and getting a professional, a professional drummer. Basically, as we know,
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: that doesn't happen because by this point, you know, the
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: others were really loyal to Ringo.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Sure, who was it that they were considering, Well, I
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: mean Andy.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: White, I mean obviously was the He was the guy
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: that played on Love Me Doo and stuff like that,
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: right and ps I love you? But yeah, I mean here,
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: I mean it's it's solid, but I mean it's you know,
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: I always think with music, and it's like we singers,
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: I think what's more important, right than technical ability is character, Right.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: I mean it's like, you know, David burn starts singing,
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: you know it's him, man, because he sounds like nobody else.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: Tom York. I mean, the list goes on, Paul McCartney,
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: you know, John Lennon. I mean, you can tell straight away,
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: and I think a lot of the time maybe Drummond's different, right,
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: but you can tell you listen to the Plastic Ono
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: band and you can tell us Ringo man, you know.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: And actually one of the things that you mentioned earlier
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: on was like that people might be surprised about his drumming.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: Listen to the new records and listen to his drumming,
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: because basically he's still just as brilliant a drummer as
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: he ever was, and he's recording these things live in
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: one or two takes, so even in his eighties, he's
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: the great drummer. So I'm afraid, you know, for the
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: Ringo detractors out there, it's kind of undeniable by this point.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: I know, he played on Tom Petty's Full Moon Fever.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: Wouldn't that have been great? If he joined the Wilburys traveling,
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: you know, that would have been cool. I wonder if
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: he was even asked about it. But Jimmy Nickel, now
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: that story is interesting too because he temporarily replaced Ringo
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: as the Beatles drummer for thirteen days in June of
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: nineteen sixty four during their first World tour. Now Ringo
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: hospitalized with tantalidas. The quote from Ringo is fascinating. He says,
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: I thought they didn't love me anymore. It's incredibly vulnerable.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: At the height of Beatlemania, does Ringo still feel like
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: he could lose everything overnight?
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, because he was last man in, So the last
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: man in can be the first one out, can't he?
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: You know? And I suppose, because you know, in this
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: era he's not a songwriter and stuff, he must have
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: just felt as if he was perhaps disposable. And also
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: because we've talked about his health before, this is his
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: health failing him again, and to the point where maybe
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: he's lying in that bed. I mean, it's likely you
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: don't want to imagine what people are thinking, but he's
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: just think it is my health going to screw this
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: up for me, basically, and anyway, so they ask of
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: the Beatles aska, I mean, George didn't want to do
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: the tour. He wanted to blow out the tour, right,
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: so the but you go to Europe, then Hong Kong
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: and Australia. George didn't want to do it. Another drummer,
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: but I mean it was kind of like, look, we're
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: going to have to do it, right, So they ask
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: another couple of drummers on the London scene and they
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: not want to do it. And Jimmy Nickel, right yeah,
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: I mean he played on a session for George Martin.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: Brian Epstein was aware of him. He gets his call
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: and he's got to immediately basically go over to my
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: studios and Arby Roads his hair Brushy's hair for Luckily,
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: he'd played on a Beatles tribute album, right, so he
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: knew quite a lot of the songs already, so this
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: is really handy. So but I think there was very
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: little rehearsal and then the next thing they were off
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: to Scandinavia, you know. But I mean paul'sys funny stuff. Actually,
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: I mean there's a bit and get back where he's
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: talking about Jimmy Nichol and he was saying that Jimmy
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: Nickle would miss the introductions to the tunes and stuff
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: like that because he was looking at all the girls.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: Right he was, Yeah, he's caught up in Beatlemania. He
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: was famous for thirteen days. No.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: But the thing is, I mean it's a strange one
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: because you've got Ringo sort of lying in bed stewing
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: and worrying, you know, if this is the end for him.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: And then you've got Jimmy Nichol who's just like, it's like,
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: beam me up, Scotty right in this mental situation, and
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: then he's instantly beamed out of it in Australia, and
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: there's a brilliant shot of him, you know, so obviously
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: he's been surrounded by screaming and KOs and stuff like that,
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: you know, for these two weeks, and then there's a
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: photograph of him sitting at the airport on his own,
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: looking like the loneliest man in the world. And it
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: didn't entirely change his life. Actually, I mean, he tried
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: to capitalize on the success that he'd had with the
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: Beatles or the you know, the endorsement or whatever the Beatles,
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: and it didn't really work. And then the story is strange.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: I devote a whole chapter to this, so I'm not
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: going it. But there were rumors of his death in
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: the nineties, which history which it was believed that he'd
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: actually put about, you know, because he was sick of
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: being the pop setting him you know, like I think
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: he was a builder at this point and stuff like that,
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: and you know, and it's got the paparazzi basically trailing
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: him and stuff. Not all the time, I'm sure, but
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: you know, it's obviously a picture that's worth something. You
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: would get that on a UK tabloid or whatever. Maybe
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: American New York posts would have that as well, wouldn't they.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean, and you know, I'm not reveal
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: how that chopped rains actually because it's quite a poignant
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: little moment as well. But yeah, I mean, it's it's
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: almost like, you know, the Beatles are the sun, right,
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: and you know, you get so close to the sun,
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: it's got a buny in some way actually, and it
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: bund all them. Actually, you know, they bummed themselves, if
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: that is possible.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: Sure, So let's untangle the myth of a joke that
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: was made. And it's it's covered in the book you
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: write quote sometimes somewhere, an apparent quote from John Lennon
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: began to circulate, scathingly joking about Ringo's skills as a musician.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: When asked by an interviewer whether he considered Star to
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: be the best rock drummer in the world, Lennon had
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: supposedly carved Ringo wasn't even the best drummer in the Beatles.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: How did that all start? And what is the real story?
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is a mad thing as well, you know,
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: because people will believe that because it's a sort a
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: quite It's a funny little line, isn't it. I mean,
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: you know, you wouldn't say it's a great joke, right
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: because I mean it's not true, and it's cruel as well.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: But Lennon never said this, right. So basically what happened
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: was in the eighties there was a British comedian who
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure wasn't famous in the States called Jasper Carrot.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: Do you know that? Very British and you know he
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: wasn't the funniest of guys either, being honest with you,
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: you know, for a comedian. But they so he claims
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: that it was him that said it. He was like, no, no, no, no,
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: I said that, right. And there's a YouTuber, a Beatles
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: YouTuber in Britain, right called Andrew Dixon, who's great, many
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: people should check him out. Actually stuff's really good. But
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: he watches through all this comedian's serieses and it's just
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: you know, I mean, nobody would want to do this right.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: I don't even think Jasper Carrott's family would want to
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: sit through all these comedy shows, you know. But anyway,
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: that bad, Yeah he was bad. Yeah that's just an opinion, Jasper. Sorry, anyway,
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: So he gets Andrew Dixon. The YouTuber gets to this
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: series called Carrock Confidential was in ninet eighty seven, and
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: finally the joke appears, and it's like, okay, Jasper Carrot
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: did say this, But what's he even weirder about it? Right,
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: is he wasn't the first one to make it the joke,
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: and he'd obviously sort of nicked it. Well, I wouldn't
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: want to say sorry again, Jasper, but you know who
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: knows how this happened, right, But there'd been a Radio
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: four BBC Radio four sketch show called Radioactive in ninet
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: eighty one and one of the characters said this thing. Now,
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: as we all know, by nine and eighty one, I mean,
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: John Lennon had passed, right, so it's a be a
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: bit too late for him to be making the joke
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: and stuff like that. So weirdly, down the years this
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: is attributed to John Lennon And actually, if you google it,
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: I mean people still believe this was attributed to John Lennon.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: Actually wow, but it really wasn't, you know. So that
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: just shows you, in a way, how that episodic sort
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: of thematic thing works in this book. You know what
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's you know, cocky mate, say it works.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: That's up for the reader to the side, right, But
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: what it means is that I can go into these
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: little corners and just to vote a chapter short chapter
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: to just the joke and just untangling that myth, you know,
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: which is interesting for me as a writer because you
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: never quite sure what it's going to end, and so
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: hopefully that makes it interesting for the readers.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: Very interesting. Yeah. Is there a Beatles track where Ringo's
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: playing is more crucial than people may realize?
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean there's lots of brilliant it's his favorite
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: one actually is Rain, you know, and Rain is amazing
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: track because he's it's a really fluid This is of
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: early psychedelic track, obviously Rain. But what he does is
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: he's all over the Tomson's that it's the most restless
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: beat that he ever did, really, and he says it's
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: almost like it wasn't me playing it. It was almost
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: like he was in a trance or something. But what
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: was even more astonishing about this, actually it was that
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: when the Revolver and was it the Revolver and told
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: you I think it was actually came out recently, the reissue,
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: we could hear for the first time Rain as it
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: was recorded, and it was recorded right maybe about twenty
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: or thirty bpm faster. So it's a really complex beat
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: to start off with. But what they've done is they'd
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: recorded it faster to the experiment with tape speeds on Revolver,
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: so they recorded it faster, you know, to see what
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: it sounded like. Have the slowed it down, you know,
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: it made the drums beefy and stuff like that. But
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: if you listen to it, I mean, I would advise
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: listeners to go and check that out, the original take
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: of Rain and you hear how.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: Fast it is andeah, and it was recorded around the
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: same time as Tomorrow Never Notes, which is a similar
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: yeah vibe.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So he's on a roll by this one. Pardon
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: the joke, right, but he is absolutely on a creative
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: role at this point. And obviously Sergeant Pepper's a really
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: interesting thing because this is an example of how there's
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: a chapter called picturing the song, and that's really what
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: he does. That's he listens to the lyric and you
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: know those holes in Blackburn, Lancashire, He says, I'm trying
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: to show that with the films, so all those amazing
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: roles on the tom Toms they had, like the holes,
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: he's digging the holes or showing the holes in Blackburn, Lancashire.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: But I would say, if you want to, if anybody
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: could be bothered, really, and I'm sure it would be
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: a very reward in forty minutes or whatever, just listen
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: to Ringles drumming on Abbey Road. Just listen to the
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: drumming right all the way through that record. And actually
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: I would argue that the weakest bit of his drumming
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: on that record is the drum solo because he didn't
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: want to do it and it sounds a bit self conscious.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: They kind of all pushed them into doing a drum
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: solo and he wasn't keen. But you know, obviously Come
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: Together is like you know, John Lennon brings in like
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: a blues that he's ripped off Chuck Berry basically, and
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: Ringo's drum beat is like Picasso. It's like a Cubis
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: drum beat you know, so yeah, I mean there's so
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: many really, I mean that are not I mean that
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: you wouldn't actually think to yourself, oh you phoned that
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: one in.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: Now you know?
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: He was always completely there. Actually, even as we see
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: and get back when he's really hungover, you know, he's
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: still when it's time, when it comes from and perform,
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: he always pulls out the heart.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he kept up with the changes and the music
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: as time went on. And then at the end, how
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: did he emotionally process the breakup compared to the others.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: Was he more accepting of the end or just less
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: vocal about it?
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: I think he was more accepting, and I think both
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: actually is the truth of it. What was interesting was
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: that when I interviewed him in twenty twenty four, and
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: this question just came to me as we were chatting,
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: and I said, did you ever think when the band
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: split up just joining another band? You know, you're a drummer,
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: and I mean there was no hesitation. He went no,
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: like instantly, right. So what was interesting was that at
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: that point he obviously saw himself as being more than
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: a drummer. Right, so he had become a screen actor, right,
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: because by this point he had already been into films,
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: one of which The Magic Christian he you know, co
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: starred with Peter Sellers, who's you know, one of the
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: greatest comic actors of any generation really, And obviously he'd
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: been singing more on the records and stuff like that,
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: more vocal performances. So yeah, when the band split up,
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: he said, I did sit in the garden and smoke
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: smoke joints basically, and think, what the hell are we
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: going to do now? Right? But remember in sixty eight
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: he'd thought about leaving the band as well, just because
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: his confidence was really low and stuff. It must have
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: been tough being a beat on man. I mean when
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: I watched Get Back, I just see how trapped they
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: are in this thing. It's like that bit where they're
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: in the Apple studio and there, you know, I think
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: it's Marcus reading out stuff from the newspaper and they're
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: about them and they're all howling, laughing and stuff like that.
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: But you just think this must have been so close
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: to phobic. It wasn't like the Stones. What did the
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: Stones to? I mean, they got busted and then they
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: became tax exiles, and you know, I mean, went went
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: to South of France and fucking took a load of
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: smart basically, you know, yeah, yes, so but the Beatles
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: couldn't do that because they were completely But it was
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: a huge glare, wasn't it. It was a bright, bright
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: light that was on them all the way through that
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: period actually, So yeah, just to get back to that
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: original thing, I mean, I think he was sad, and yeah,
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: I think they all knew had been on the cards
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: for a while. And also I don't think it was
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: definitive as well, you know, it wasn't definitive because so
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: I mean that September meeting in sixty nine where Lennon
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: says that's it, I'm out the group, you know, I
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: want a divorce and blah blah blah. But three weeks
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: before that, he they'd made a cassette right to give
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: to ring because Ringo was back in hospital with his
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: belly again, you know. And basically, yeah, I mean, Lennon
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: was talking quite enthusiastically about the next album that they
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: would make after Abbi wrote. They were talking about a
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: standalone single, you know, for Christmas and stuff like that,
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: and then an album at nineteen seventy and then you know,
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: within the same month, but I mean, obviously wild mood swings,
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: who knows what the hell had gone on, and he said,
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: but he's like, no, I want to I want out.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: So so it wasn't definitive that that would have been
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: the end of the band either. I think, you know,
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: they might have got back together in seventy two or
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: what about Actually, you know what, they wouldn't have got
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: together in seventy two because they all hated Paul because
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: he'd you know, he'd had to take them to coat
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: and stuff for that to try and get the money
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: away from Alan Klin. But yeah, I mean there's a
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: whole chapter again called Beatles Reunite exclamation Mark where I
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: just basically go through every year and it's all the
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: rumors on what they all said. So at different times,
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: you know, one of them be going, I don't mind
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: doing it, even George, who seemed to be the least
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: keen on doing it. At certain point he's like, yeah,
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: I do the whole thing, Lennon, and it's like, yeah,
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: I do hate dude and the whole damn show and
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: all this, But basically and crucially they never agree on it.
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: At the same time.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that Live Aid one is incredible because that was
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: in the news like it was happening.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, well you and I yea yeah yeah,
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: and I mean I'm pretty sure it hads Lenin left.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: They definitely would have gone it back together actually in
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: some way for.
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: Something like ain absolutely right.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yep, yeah, totally. Man.
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: Find the book Damn Rack webs sight at booked on
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: rock dot com. There you can find all the back
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: episodes of the show, the latest episode in video and audio,
• 41:07
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• 41:09
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• 41:12
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• 41:16
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• 41:20
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• 41:23
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• 41:26
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• 41:29
  Speaker 1: booked on rock dot com. Tom Doyle, the author of
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: Ringo of Fab Life. Ringo had one of the strongest
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: solo careers, seven consecutive top ten singles, including number one
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: hits Photograph and You're Sixteen, and the critically acclaimed nineteen
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: seventy three album Ringo so one of the strongest early
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: solo careers coming out of the box post Beatles. Why
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: is that often overlooked?
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: I think because Ringo was overlooked. Actually, I think that
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: is genuinely at actually, but you know, well, if you
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: were a better man, which I'm not, then you would
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: you know, in nineteen seventy who would you put your
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: money on right to have the big successful singles pop
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: career McCartney. I mean, all the money would have been
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: on mcartney and he did, you know, I mean obviously,
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: I mean Uncle Albert, Admiral Halsey is it's a number
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: one in America and it's that's a banana's song that
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: is really pretty out there. But Ringo is the unlikely
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: one in a way. But do you know it was
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: just the tunes were really good, you know, I mean,
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: photographs brilliant. It don't come easy. He's really good. George
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: Harrison has a furtive hand in writing these right, so
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: they're basically co wrights, is what is believed. But George
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: at this point is more interested in a production career,
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: producing for other people, so he agrees to produce these
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: singles for Ringo and then they just gets I mean
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: at one point and actually writes Ringle note and say
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: please write me a hit, which.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: I remember seeing Ringo as a kid on HBO the
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: film Caveman, and that that was it was played all
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: the time in HBO, and I wondered what was behind
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: his move into film and how seriously did he take acting?
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: What did you think before we move on? What did
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: you think I kept Caveman when you were a kid?
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: You know, I loved it as a kid that I
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: would always watch it. You know, it was an odd
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: then it's quad it's in it, yeah, I mean it's
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: I mean so basically I've seen it since by the way,
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: because you know, I mean.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: There's there's a bet when I go through the plot
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: actually annotating it right from you know, like time code
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: or whatever. You know. I mean, it's pretty funny, man,
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: it's pretty dopey. There's a lot of drug references in
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: it as well, which I mean when you were a kids,
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: you know, I mean it's actually like drug references or kids.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: You know, there's a dinosaur, it's like these sort of
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: marijuana berry's, as if there is such a thing, like
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: it falls off a cliff. I mean, it's bananas, man.
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: But anyway, we had Ringo's thing, yet he did take it.
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: I mean, he kind of fell into a screen career
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: and it started with A Hard Days Night. And people
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: will know that famous scene in A Hard Days Night
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: where Ringo's wandering lonely as a cloud down the Thames
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: zero and he meets a ked and they're skimming stones
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: and all this sort of stuff. But the truth behind
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: that was he'd been up all night and he was
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: still drunk when he filmed that scene, and he couldn't
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: remember any lines because he was basically he'd been drinking
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: brandy on it or whiskey and coke was probably tipple
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: at that point. And so he said to Richard Lester,
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: the director, Look, why don't you just film me sort
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: of wandering around And so this is the unexpected breakout
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: scene in the film. So the next Beatles film, Help
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: is all centered around Ringo with this ring and you know,
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: the Indian cults and all this sort of stuff, you know,
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: and then the other films from then on right Magical
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: Mystery too. He's one of those stars. Basically, Yeah, well,
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: Submarine begins with Ringo, you know, so it goes on
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: and on. So Ringo obviously starts to think. He said,
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: you know, maybe a screen career, you know, because he
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: loved movies, actually said gene Kley and all that sort
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: of stuff. But you know, so there are ten different
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: chapters in the book, each devoted to a film or
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: sometimes I think a piggyback, a couple actually, and you know,
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: it's a chickered film career, a chickered film agraphy. You
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: would say, there's some that are absolutely rubbish. I mean,
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: I'll be very happy if I never have to sit
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: through Frank Zappa's two hundred Motels again, which Ringo appears
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: as Frank Zappa's pretty Trippy man movie.
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, really weird avant garde is putting it lightly.
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: Yes, well yeah, the Wold and yeah, John Lennon called
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: it French for bullshit. Didn't he know that?
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: Bet ye?
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: But there's some of them are really good, you know.
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, That'll Be the Day is the best film
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: basically because he is literally acting naturally. I mean, he
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: plays someone who's working at holiday camp, you know, who's
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: a bit with teddy Boy and stuff like that, so
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: he knows this stuff and it must have been pretty
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: strange to him. I mean, because it's almost like dream logic.
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: It's like he's not playing in the band. He's a
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: barming like he was when he worked on the ferries
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: when he was sixteen and stuff. You know. So there's
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: a lot of stuff jumbled up in there, but he's
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: brilliant in that film. He actually pulls off Merlin in
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: the Dracula film, right Son of Dracula, which is basically
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: him and Harry Nielsen snorting a load of coke, drink
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: a load of brandy and make a load of you know,
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: they're making a film off Apple money basically. Actually, I
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: think Ringle chucked a lot of his own money into
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: that one. But he's not bad. You know, he plays
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: Merlin and you could have seen, you know, it's like
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: all these lines dreams and dreams of full mystical guff
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: that he has to recite, but he pulls it off actually,
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: and you could see probably a job in Harry Potter
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: would have been not a bad one. You know. You
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: can see ring as you know, some sort of wizard
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: teacher in Harry Potter. But yeah, I mean what I
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: would say in my defense actually, because I do devote
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: ten chapters right to this is even when the film's crap.
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: The story behind the film is always brilliant, you know.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: I mean it's like Listomania, right, Ken Russell's Listomenia starring
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: Roger Doughtry of the who what who does Ringo play?
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: I mean you would never guess. I mean, if that
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: was a pub quiz, can you guess you've read the book? Anyway?
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: He plays the pope. Now there is no screen you know,
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: casting director on earth would go, we've got a roll
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: for the pope here right who We're going to get
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: Ringo stars? But there you go, man, he's the pope.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and he plays it pretty well.
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: It's like a pope with a scout sack sent.
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: Liver Pudley and Pope Man that you know, the Kman movie.
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: I just looked at up quickly, Shelley Long. I forgot
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: what's in there? Barbara Back, Jama Tusac, and that the
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: director was Carl Gatlieb of Jaws Vain. He was one
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: of the writers of.
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: And it was quite a success that film as well,
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: And that was Ringo's first starring role. But yeah, there's
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: a lot of bits when he's trying to cop off
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: with barberae Back, you know, this sort of stuff. I mean,
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: it's pretty funny. And obviously that's where they met because
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: Ringo not a great swimmer, and there's this scene where
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: he jumps in a fast flowing river and saves her
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: right and in real life she was really impressed by this,
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: you know. And then basically, I think Carl Gottlieb said
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: that they had a rehearse a scene in her room
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: at the holiday end or whatever in Mexico, and I
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: think Dringle didn't leave, you know, under They arrived basically
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: on say together holding Hans the next day and that
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: was it. That was the that was the beginning of
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: the I mean, well, let's still together now watchly, you know.
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: So that's that's going on for a good while now.
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much for checking out the Booked on Rock podcast.
• 49:18
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• 49:22
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• 49:24
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• 49:26
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• 49:30
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• 49:32
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• 49:49
  Speaker 1: Booked on Rock. Thanks again for listening. Now back to
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: the show, you dotor in some darker periods where he
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: hit rock bottom late eighties, right that was? Is that?
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: How bad had things really gotten for Ringo?
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: Well? It was the eighties in general, actually. I mean
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: there's one thing in nineteen eighty four where he performs
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: with the Beach Boys in Washington in front of half
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: a million people, right, And he later admitted that he
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: couldn't remember it, and he said he only knew that
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: he'd performed with the Beach Boys because someone showed him
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: a photograph. And then he's doing things like he's you know,
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: he's invited to play on a Cat Stevens album and
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: none of it choosed because you know, I think he
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: basically was too drunk. It's hard. I mean when he
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: looks back now, I think, you know, his dad walked
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: out on him and his mum when he was very young,
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: so there's a bit of unresolved you know, abandonment issues
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: and stuff like that. And obviously, as I say, I
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: mean it was it must have been amazing to be
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: a Beatle. I mean, what a head fuck basically, you know,
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: but also quite traumatizing as well. So there was all that,
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: and you know, I mean we all know this, I
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: mean most of us do with a matter, and you
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: know that it's like, you know, the first three drinks,
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: two or three drinks, Hey, this is great, you know,
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: but then by the time you get it on eight
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: and ten drinks, and then by the time you're getting
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: up in the morning and drinking. I mean, he actually
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: admitted at one point in the sort of mid eighties,
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: he didn't really want to make any more music because
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: he knew you would have to sit in the car
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: going to the studio without a drink. Wow. Yeah, that's
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: got the shakes.
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what happens. You gotta constantly drink.
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: He did pull himself out of that, and then you
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: have the All Star Band In nineteen eighty nine, that's
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: when he launched the Ringo Star and his All Star
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: Band Era and continues to tour. He's had so many
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: legendary musicians to join him. Joe Walsh, Levon, Helm Aedger, Winter, Todd, Rungwerd,
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: Peter Frimpton, I mean, list goes that Steve Lukather Colin
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: Hay of Men at Work, you mentioned that when he
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: launched this tour in eighty nine, he literally went through
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: the phone book.
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: Well, this is it, right, He went through his phone book.
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: This is it right? So what's interesting and is he
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: and Barbara get clean right at the end of eighty nine.
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: But you've got to remember, right, Bringles not actually, I mean,
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: apart from the concept from Bangladesh, he's not really been
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: on a stage. You know. Well obviously he's been with
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: the Beach Boys, but you can't remember it, you know,
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: but he's never done full show really and certainly not
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: one of his own. And so what happens is this promoter,
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: guy David Fischoff, gets in touch with them, says I
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: can get money from PEPSI like to the sponsor the
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: tour because this is obviously the era of that, the
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: late eighties, and he thinks he I mean, obviously he's
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: facing the prospect of going on stage completely sober as well,
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: so it's brave. And also he doesn't ban drinking drugs
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: from the tour, which is kind of amazing as well,
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: you know, because's a couple of the guys, like the
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: guys that were in the band and stuff like that.
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: I mean they were battling heroin addiction you know, at
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: the time. So so yeah, basically what was so funny
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: was Joe Walsh. I interviewed him as well, and he
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: said he remembered Ringo going through his phone book and
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: falling these people and put a band together, you know,
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: and Ringo was amazed that everybody said yes. And Joe
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: Walsh turned around and said, are you crazy. I mean
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: they're all going to jump on this man, you know,
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: so which kind of shows you And I think that
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: is absolutely genuine. I don't think Ringo was thinking, hey,
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm this, I'm that you know, everybody's going
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: to want to do this. I think it showed a
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: genuine humility and yeah, and Ringo really was genuinely surprised
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: that all these guys wanted to get together and do it.
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: But the genius of it actually because he told me
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: Ringo he said that, he says, I didn't want to
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: front a show for you know, two hours or what.
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: I don't want to be he says, I like being
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: the guy at the front of the stage and I
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: like being the guy behind the kit and stuff like that,
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: he says, but I just don't want to be at
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: the front of the stage for a whole show. So
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: this basically this tour. I mean, I don't know how
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: it happened before. I mean, I suppose things like the
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: Roll and Thunder review and stuff. These were sort of
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: juke boxy kind of gigs, you know, because all the
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: Last Waltz know, everybody getting up and doing their own
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: tunes and stuff like that. But it really works with Ringo,
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: especially because of the fact that he's got all the
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: Beatles classics that he can sing all his ones, you know,
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: and I mean something like Boy's right, he gets behind
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: the kit and he sings that and he plays it
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: at the same time, right, And he was doing that
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: a Buttling's back in nineteen sixty, you know. So it's
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: like an old trade. You know that he's got himself
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: in here. But you know these jukebox shows, you know,
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: I mean the latest one. I mean, you've got men
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: at work down under, you know, You've got and all
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: this sort of stuff, you know, so it's a great
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: night for people. I mean, I've never seen it because
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: I mean he's hardly ever toured the UK with it.
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, he just does it in the States. But
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: I do wonder if he might try and do it
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: this year or next, because I mean, amazingly he's still
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: out there touring.
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, well I think but I think that
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: leunds to the idea. Then. You know, people when they
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: they retire, they think that that's a good thing. But
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: you know, there's something to be said for if you
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: have a passion for something, you keep doing it. That's
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: how you, I think, live longer. I mean, there's a
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: reason to get up, yeah, you know, I mean one
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: of the times. Of course, family and the people you
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: love and all that, but you have to have something
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: that you're you're driven to do. Of course he's obviously
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: they're not making him and Paul making these albums to
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: make they need they don't need the money, I mean.
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: You know, and as Joel Watch points out, they don't
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: need to be any more famous either, right, So they're
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: not doing it but promoting themselves or whatever, you know,
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: And I think that's what's essential about the pain of
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: the moment. I did ask Paul one time about it.
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: I said, sorry, man, I've got to ask I said,
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: you know, you must get asked all the time you
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: ever think about retired in right? And he was so funny.
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: He said, well, he said, set around and watch day TV,
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: the daytime TV. You know, he said, why would have
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: want to set around and watch daytime TV? He said,
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: there's a program called cash in the attic, right, and
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: I don't know if there's an equivalent over there in
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: the States, but it's like people finding all this crap
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: right in their attic, right and then going And he said,
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: what sit around and watch cash in the attic? He says,
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: I'm sure it's a great program, he says, but I'd
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: rather be out there playing.
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So, peace and love that's become his defining message.
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: When did that become more than a phrase for Ringo?
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: When did it become part of his identity?
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: Well, this is the thing. I mean, it's it's probably
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: I would say it's more this century, right that you know,
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: it's like twenty first century, last twenty five years or so,
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: that he's been really a peace and love advocate. And
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: I must admit, the first time that I interviewed him,
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: I thought it's just a gimmick, is it? You know?
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: And asked, but I didn't ask him that. What I
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: asked him was, I said, are you carrying this for John?
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: And he said, no, I'm not carrying it for John.
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: He says, I'm carrying it for the world. Right. And interestingly,
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: when I started researching this book, it's way beyond just
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: some gimmick, right or snap. It's not a gimmick. It's
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: like a snappy sort a slogan or whatever, you know
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: it's like. But actually, the more that I went into it,
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: he I think this isn't the intro the book. He
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: he talks about Jainism, right, so that the Buddhist philosophy
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: of basically preaching non violence. Right. It's something that he
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: deeply believes in, right, And it is that thing that
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: on his birthday he does ask people around the world
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: just for one minute, right to think about peace and love,
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: you know. And I mean, obviously it's a happy ideal,
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: isn't it. You know? But who's to say that if
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: everybody on the planet didn't think about peace, that wars
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: wouldn't stop, you know, particularly the people that are causing them,
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: you know. So I mean it's not it's not as
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: shallow as it seems, because I think it's easy to
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: sort of make fun of that or whatever, you know,
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: Peace and love, Peace and love, but he truly does
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: believe it. Actually.
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so you spend so much time with his story.
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: What's the one trait that defines Ringo more than anything else?
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: Humor? Definitely, that he's learned to laugh at life, and
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: that actually his humor partently in America made him famous
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: before his music in a way, right, you know, because
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, nobody knew who Ringo was when they landed
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: in the States and stuff like that. But if you watch,
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sure they had a drink on the
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: plane when they were flying over. They were probably so nervous,
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: and they were told that there was so many fans
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: there and stuff. But if you notice as soon as
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: they whisked into JFK and that famous press conference, Ringo's
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: the one who's doing all the talking, right, And maybe
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: he has yeah, maybe he's a bit tipsy or whatever,
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: but all that stuff, you just four British Elvis praise
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: Lees and he's like, it's not true, it's not true,
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: and he curls the lip and starts doing the heap
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: shaking and stuff like that, and he leads the dancing
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: because they all start doing it.
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right, Yeah.
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: He's the first one, right, So, I mean it's almost
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: and that's why America loved him so much, because he
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: was cheeky, and the reporters loved him so much, you know,
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: because he says that when there's that famous footage of
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: them on the train of Washington before they do the
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: first gig in the States and all the reporters in
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: the are in the carriage and stuff, and he was saying,
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: we do you know, he said, you know other teen stars,
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: you know, it was all like, oh, no sex, and
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: you know, we don't smoke. He says, they're We're sitting
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: there smoking and drinking, and tell them what the fuck off?
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: The love it, right, That's what you know, that's what
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: they loved it.
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think I was just gonna say real
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: quickly too. He get that Gene Krupa thing where normally
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: the drummer is not somebody'd really watch, but you could.
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: You would watch him. He was animated on stage. You
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: would notice him every bit as much as Jan Paul
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: and George.
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: Well, he had an act, didn't he. I Mean it's
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: interesting because he's he always sets the drum stool too high,
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: so he's bending down over it, but that's obviously just
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: what's natural. And then there's this weird swishing thing. I
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: even noticed that when I was a kid and I
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: was learning in drums. It was like, why does he
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: play high hat like that? But he sort of swishes
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: the high heart back and forward like a windstream wiper, right, Yeah.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: And then obviously the main thing is the grinning all
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: the time, right, I think a lot of the time
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: because he's sort of laughing at the ridiculousness of this
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: whole thing and how fun it is.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: But then obviously it's the headshake, you know. And yeah,
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: so he's got the act down to tea, you know.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I would think only a fool would take
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: ringo and face value. There's spiritual depths, you know, obviously
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: musical depths to him that really were only now properly
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: starting to appreciate. Actually, So yeah, he's a multi layer dude, man,
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: you know, I mean, and so easily dismissed down the
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: years because of the company he kept in that band.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: Basically the book Dwan Rock podcast is part of the
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: Bondless podcasting network. If you're a fan of classic rock
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: and classic film like I am got a boneless that
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: lovable that app to find over twenty great shows there
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: that's boneless downlovable dot app, or just go to bookdown
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: rock dot com, the Boneless podcasting network. It is what
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: you want to be. Listen with confidence, Tom, this has
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: been great. Ringo a fab life and the book makes
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: you hear and see Ringo differently, I think, and that's
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: what I love about it. So now I go back
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: and I could listen to his music and the Beatles
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: music and I don't know, you just see him differently.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: He's just I just love the positive energy that comes
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: from him. So I think that's so cool, amazing.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: Well, that's amazing here because I mean that is absolutely
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: the intention. You know, there are so many Beatles books,
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: so if you're finding something new and it hopefully other
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: people will, so no greater compliment, dude.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, the book is out. It should be out
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: by the time this episode is up, because May twelve
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: is the release date, so people can find it whever
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: books are sold. Right now, look forward at your nearest bookstore.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: A booked on rock dot com. People can find their
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: nearest independent bookstore and look for a copy there and Tom,
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: where can people find you online?
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: I don't have a website because I think I think
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: there's a wee bit old fashioned. But I'm on all
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: the I'm on Instagram, Facebook, the other one that I
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: still call Twitter because I refused to call it X
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: So they're all there. You can people can find me
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: there and get in touch.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: Well, I'll look for you. I'll follow you and put
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: the links up in the show notes so people can
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: then reach out to you. Tom Doyle, thank you so much,
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: brilliant chairs man, thank you very much.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: That's it. It's in the books.