Latest / The ABACC Podcast® / Ep. 6 - Jessica Ryals (CEO, CFO Colleague) - Leading the People God Put in Your Path
Transcript
- Jessica Ryals: this journey really starts with understanding yourself well and a lot of great things can flow on from that, not just in the space of mentoring and growing your team, but un being willing to kind of do the ugly work of figuring out, okay, what where am I great and where do I struggle? And let's just be honest about all of it. Bruce Hoeker: Welcome back to the ABACC Podcast, where we learn from the people serving Christian higher education and remember that we are all working through it together. Our guest today is Jessica Ryals CEO and owner of CFO Colleague Back in college, Jessica took a personality test and scored exactly the same in every category. She jokes that she failed her personality test. Years later, after working as a CPA, four years in Australia, and a stint as assistant controller at Kenyon College. She took the helm of the firm her father, Jeff Speer, founded. Along the way, she discovered that knowing yourself is where good mentoring begins. This conversation is about leading the people God has placed in your path, especially when it doesn't come naturally. Before we begin, a quick word about our sponsors. Well hi Jessica. Nice to have you on the show. Thanks for being here. Jessica Ryals: Hey Bruce, thanks so much for asking me. I'm I'm super thrilled to be here. Bruce Hoeker: Well, we've been talking about this for a while, at le a couple of months since I asked you originally. And I've been super excited about this. Very excited to have you on the show, very interested in what you're doing. Tell us just a little bit about your role at CFO Colleagues. Jessica Ryals: So I am the CEO and owner at CFO Colleague Many of our ABACC folks know that the firm was founded by my dad, Jeff Speer, and I joined a little of the way into his adventure. And just this past January on his retirement, I became the top dog, so to speak. So so here we are. I'm running things at CFO Colleague and but I'm also, you know, my heart is still in the business office. Bruce Hoeker: Sure, absolutely. Well you you've got big shoes to fill, as I'm sure you're very well aware. Jeff is Jeff is famous in the Christian higher ed world, but I I would dare say you have found your own place in this industry. you're you're not new to this world. Matter of fact, you come from an a audit a controller background, correct? And an auditor background. Jessica Ryals: Yes. So When I finished college, I went to Houghton College. It's now Houghton University, still getting used to that, but for my undergrad. I finished there and went right to Deloitte as an auditor. So I've told people it felt like kind of an experience grad school. so I spent three years with them before getting married and moving to Australia for four years, where I was really blessed with the opportunity to work for a publicly traded private health insurance company in their business. intelligence area. So I got to kind of dip my toe. I'd been, you know, firmly in the accounting world. I got to dip my toe into analysis and coding and things like that that I hadn't experienced before then. So after a few years there, my husband was pastoring a church. We moved back to the States so he could go to seminary and it was then that I worked at Kenyon College as an assistant controller for a handful of years. And that was really where I, you know, sat in the seat and learned a lot of things about how higher ed is working, what you know, felt like low-hanging fruit after my other kind of varied experiences. And when I finished up there, I came over to CFO colleague and haven't looked back. I love I love the work I get to do. Bruce Hoeker: That's amazing. I I I love that you do it. I love that you're so good at it. And I love that you have helped so many ABACC member schools. I love that. Th what at what point did you feel like this was more of a calling than a job? Jessica Ryals: So I think i it really It matched so well with my what I wanted for my family life at the time. You know, at the time I started working full time with CFO colleague, our youngest of four was two. And I was still really wanting to have those close touch points at home. And so it felt like kind of God's provision in that moment to be able to kind of craft the family life that we were wanting alongside this very meaningful work. And I think as it progressed, I realized, you know, I realized how much I had to offer these places because of that varied experience that we talked about. I knew a little bit better what was possible for a business office. having been in the auditor seat, I had a little bit of a sense of what was gonna matter, you know, more than other things when it comes to the year end audit. And I also just saw, I don't know. I guess I just saw this clear path for how it could be and it excited me to be able to help people out with that so that they could then get the family life that they were wanting, whatever stage of life their family was in. So that was really it it started to feel more like a calling once I realized that it was impacting real people's lives and people who were like me and I got excited about that. basically every time I can get somebody the kind of life they want sooner than I found it myself, I feel like that's a win. Bruce Hoeker: That's awesome. We're gonna come back to the life and work balance a little bit later in the show, but mentorship is not necessarily one of the things that you do at CFO Colleague. It's not one of the services listed on your website, but it is something you do quite a bit of. When did that start for you? Jessica Ryals: Yeah, so it's it's funny in our back office conversations we actually do a lot of mentorship. It's just nowhere on our website. So that's a that's a pin. But Bruce Hoeker: Right. Jessica Ryals: at any rate, I really I feel like it started honestly at Deloitte. They have this very public accounting has this very structured format for what what to expect. So you come in as a first year and then as a second year, you'll likely be running some real small engagements. So you're you're learning to manage as you're moving up the ladder. And so I came from this very highly structured mentoring environment. one of the stories I like to tell, I we each coming into Deloitte had a mentor. Manager set up. And my mentor manager actually was also a hotengrad. and she one of the things she encouraged me to think about was that I would really be the only person managing my own career, and I needed to make sure that if there were things I wanted to do or didn't want to do, that I was speaking up about them and kind of making them happen. And so from that coming from that highly structured, very intentional kind of mentoring environment to a college business office where, at a lot of our schools we just hire a business office staff and hope they keep being good at their jobs. We don't really offer them a lot in terms of professional development outside of groups Bruce Hoeker: huh. Jessica Ryals: like ABACC. So Coming from this highly structured environment and understanding what's possible in that environment to a place where there's not a lot of it. For me, it was just like, hey, how do we how do we look at the people we have and help them? And so really that's that's how that process grows from you know my days at Deloitte where it was very, you know, kind of intentional and structured, through work on the business intelligence team, where I had a lot of kind of cross-functional responsibilities, to then in the business office looking at not just people who are coming up the year two behind me, but maybe people who have had experiences that I've had Bruce Hoeker: Mm-hmm. Jessica Ryals: being willing to kind of engage and meet them where they're at in their life and understand kind of who they are and what they're looking for and who I am and what I might have to offer. Bruce Hoeker: I love that. I love the idea of deliberately managing your own career. I think I think leaders often think about who they are leading and who kind of is leading them, who they are reporting to. But I'm not sure that a lot of people think about deliberately managing their own career. That's it's a very interesting idea. It's so it's something that I I have done, but I I had very deliberate goals from the very early onset. And so there's but it's it's an interesting concept. We'll have to come back to that. I love that idea. Maybe we have to do another podcast on deliberately mentoring I love that. I love that we might just do Jessica Ryals: I I could talk for hours, Bruce. Bruce Hoeker: that. So y do you find mentorship natural for you? Does it come easy? Jessica Ryals: Do I do caveat. So I find it natural to kind of run in like a bulldozer on something and say, here's what I see happening and here's how we need to fix it. What I have learned and am continuing to grow in is that opportun that posture of curiosity and learning about the other person. I think it also part of the journey I've been on when it comes to mentorship is really understanding myself better so that I can understand the others better. So in terms of that kind of natural mentorship, I've I've leaned a little bit into some various kind of personality tests, those sorts of things. I had a I won't I'm not gonna say it was traumatic, but I had a really negative experience with a personality test when I was in college. we're in student government, and it was the one where it's like you're either a lion or a bear or two other animals. And I took the kit test, and I kid you not, I got the same score for each. I failed the personality test. And so Bruce Hoeker: Hm. no. Jessica Ryals: From that point on, I was pretty skeptical of anything that said it was going to put me in the box. because I didn't find that process useful. In fact, it was a little bit concerning. but you know, now, many years on, looking into that sort of self-discovery has helped me to unearth the what I have to offer a mentoring relationship and understanding who I am in that process helps me to avoid becoming that bulldozer because I can understand like yeah I'm gonna be able to see some of these things And the I really need the other person's like interest and consent before I just kind of r ram down their throat. So Bruce Hoeker: Sure. Yeah. Jessica Ryals: yeah, so that's I guess the most vulnerable answer I can give. Bruce Hoeker: Sure, that's that's beautiful. I love that. So let me ask you this question, really, and why? Why do this? It's an enormous amount of work, especially for someone who's not getting paid. There's like a friendly thing, a volunteer, I want to be helpful, I wanna give back. Why would anybody go down this path and be a mentor? Jessica Ryals: So I will say we do have some engagements that end up being paid. So I don't wanna you know I I don't Bruce Hoeker: Sure, yeah. Yeah. Jessica Ryals: I don't wanna speak out of turn. But the reality is, you know, when I think about When I think about somebody else who's in a situation similar to where I was, I don't want them to have to struggle any longer than they need to. I don't want there's one girl, she's finished college now, so she's not a girl anymore, but she was a couple years into her college degree and she was trying to decide between an art and business major and just a business major. And I sat her down and gave her my spiel on that actually has has come from my dad with some modification. An accounting major can do anything a business major can do, plus speak the language of business and work in a CPA firm. So I I've talked a few folks like her into becoming an accounting major for those reasons. I believe strongly that it sets them up for a lifetime of making life what they want it to be. And she's now working, she's doing a bunch of payroll work for a CPA firm where everybody else is 55 plus and she's learning a ton and And you know, she has she has these options. So I think for me it's just a I don't know, I guess it's the way God wired me, but I d I want to pour into people. I want to make life easier for them. I want to, help them discern their own callings, whether it's, you within a particular role or their career overall, or whether it's just as simple as, you know, let's make the audit less painful so that you don't feel like you're staying overnight in the office. You know, I remember there was one night when I was working at Kenyon It was a Friday night. Our church had a hot meals program that we attended with our kids just to be hospitable. We weren't volunteering, we were just attending to eat with folks. And there was a particular deadline we were up against at work, and I had sent something for review and my CFO was looking at it, and I had to call my husband and say, Hey, I'm not gonna make it home in time for us to go to hot meals tonight. And well, on the one hand, that stuff will happen. It's not, you know, you're gonna have that, it's it's Bruce Hoeker: Right. Jessica Ryals: life. On the other hand, I still remember it today because it mattered at the time. And so Bruce Hoeker: Mm-hmm. Jessica Ryals: for me, if I can take another person like me in that situation and set them up for success so that they're not having to make the phone call, or at the very least, if they are, they're not remembering it 15 years later. Bruce Hoeker: Right. Jessica Ryals: and allow them to build the kind of life that they want to have that's integrated with the work that they're doing. I think, you know, building building more whole people is what the kingdom is all about. Bruce Hoeker: Yeah. that's beautifully said. I love that. So you hold mentorship together with three questions. Who we are and what we have to offer, what the other person actually needs, and how to authentically provide it. Walk us through that. Where does someone even start? Jessica Ryals: Yeah, so I alluded to a little this earlier, but I think first understanding who we are and what we have to offer. That's where I get into, you know, kind of this This curiously authentic approach to understanding yourself and how you're wired and how that might differ from another person. So for me, that's come in understanding my life as an Enneagram 3. You know, I am someone who thrives in, you know, achievement, fast-paced action, those sorts of things. If I don't understand that about myself, I can very easily pull out that bulldozer and take somebody, you know, just take somebody. out. I also working genius is something that I've spent a lot of time with over the last year. understanding that I really value problem solving at a certain point in the working genius kind of spectrum. And other people are gonna have skills at other points. So if I expect somebody to think about solving a problem by inventing a new solution, but they're on the tenacity side, that's not gonna be reasonable. You know, so understanding so the first step being understanding. Understanding who I am and how I'm naturally going to respond to something that's presented to me helps me to make sure that I am fully present and aware of what's happening in me before I'm pushing it on someone else. Bruce Hoeker: You you say that God calls each of us with our own skills and abilities to lead the people he has placed in our past. How does a leader figure out what they genuinely have to offer? Jessica Ryals: So it's a it's a good question and I think it really for me at least, as someone who very much processes by doing, it it is all about that relationship. Understanding me, understanding you, understanding what your goals are and kind of what the path I have walked. gives me to offer to you. So we can go into a school and help with bank rects are a real hot topic now. Every like eight or nine months we end up with like several clients that are just in disaster mode for whatever reason. We can go in and clean them up and fix them. But if we're not looking at okay who's who's working on this? What have we asked of them? How is the system building what this result that we are getting, then we're not developing a long-term plan. And so in in mentoring, looking at what's their experience, where are their pain points, and what are the pieces that I have already solved in one way or another? Or even what are the places where my life has brought me to a place of saying of asking the right question. So I think about I think about somebody like an assistant controller somewhere who's just bogged down in investments entries or something like that. And I can come in and say, like, hey, I had this problem and I solved it X way. Or I can come in and say, Hey, okay, where's the real bottleneck? Like, where do you actually get stuck? Let's dive into what the particular pain point is, and then we zoom out to, okay, and what What is it about how you like to work that's going to help us solve this problem, not just making it about me and my solution? Bruce Hoeker: we can't be a mentor by saying, Here is exactly how I did it, and therefore this w will also work for you. I think that's an important distinction. And I think it's an easy thing to fall into because it worked great for us. And so if it worked great for me, it must work well for you. And that's not necessarily the truth, is what you're saying. I think that's an interesting point. Jessica Ryals: Yeah, and it's it it it's can be a tough needle to thread, especially in the work that we do. Like sometimes we are just there to fix it and that's fine. Like Bruce Hoeker: Mm-hmm. Jessica Ryals: just come in and fix it and then you know, we'll hand it back and they'll take it. But then there are there are also those opportunities where we say, Okay, like we went and fixed it, now let's spend a half an hour figuring out how to make sure it never happens again. Bruce Hoeker: Sure, absolutely. Absolutely. I love that. So it you you feel like you kind of I don't know, falling into it is the right word, but it it came fairly naturally for you to be a mentor to someone else that fits your personality traits. What about the person who says, This isn't really my personality trait? It's not natural for me, but I want to do it. What what do you tell that person? Jessica Ryals: Yeah, so I think I think, you know, like we said with the three things, first comes self-reflection. Like f pick your pick your piece that you want to learn more about. Working Genius is pretty low-hanging fruit. It's only $25, I think, to take their assessment. Figure out what it is about how you tick that makes you operate a certain way, and then learn about other profiles. Just doing that helps you to understand, okay, there's some self-compassion here. this is why mentoring is hard for me, because I like to solve problems this way, and mentoring Bruce Hoeker: Mm-hmm. Jessica Ryals: really requires me to think that way. and then secondly, just understanding that other person. What you know, I think Often when I think about this kind of mentoring, I I think about a supervisor, like a boss and employee situation where you might not have chosen to be in a people management position, but you know, you've moved up the ladder and here we are. so Bruce Hoeker: Right. Jessica Ryals: I you you understand now a little bit about yourself, understanding about this person, even just asking them, what do you find insufferable about this job? And being willing to listen to that without judgment and saying, you know, well they're clearly not right for the role if they don't like that piece. Bruce Hoeker: Mm-hmm. Jessica Ryals: But kind of being a student that person. And then I feel like the the rest of it pulls together even if you're not naturally looking where you can see, okay, I'm like this, you're like that, and here's the problem. How are we with all of our skills going to solve it together? solving Bruce Hoeker: It's it's not a it's not a one-way transaction, it's a partnership, isn't it? Well, let's Jessica Ryals: Yeah. Bruce Hoeker: let's go back to something you said earlier in the show, where you talked about how important it was for you early on in your career, it sounds like, to find that work and life balance. And your your book makes room for both service to the institution and margin for home life. What would you say to the leader who feels they have nothing left to give? Jessica Ryals: let's take a look at where those pain points are. what is happening in your what is true about your work life that makes home life feel impossible or what is true about your home life that makes the work life and progression you're looking for feel impossible. And being willing to take a hard look at that and break some of it down, it can result in some I would say ultimately fun abnormal schedules like when my kids were super little, I would work till three or so and then I would go back to work at seven in my on my couch. now I'm getting a little bit older and trying to work in the evening, there's not a lot of available brain space, but I can get up early and hit a few things at seven forty-five or eight AM that I I would not have been able to that when I was dropping kids off at daycare and trying to make sure everybody did what they wanted to do, I had to ease into work in a different way. So Bruce Hoeker: Mm-hmm. Jessica Ryals: looking at like on an honest look at your stage of life and what your home and your workplace needs from you, I think it can bear a lot of fruit, even if you're feeling like There's so much overwhelm, there's too much to give, etc. I think the other thing I would say to someone who feels that way is just remember where what only you can do. That's been a really recurring mantra for me. You know, what can only I do? When I was working for a school, I was replaceable. They replaced me when I left. but I'm not replaceable in my kids' lives. right now, Bruce Hoeker: Mm. Jessica Ryals: the work that I'm doing as the leader of CFO colleague. I am replaceable, but it'd be harder. and so understanding that like only I can make some of the business related decisions that we need to make. at the same time as, you know, my family life has shifted so that there's not the same need for me in the afternoon hours, but the evening hours, you know, up until my son got his license, I was driving everybody everywhere. Now I'm just driving a couple people everywhere. So Bruce Hoeker: Sure. I love that. You've you've talked about finding that personal balance. You've talked about finding that professional balance. You've talked about being deliberate about your career path. it it sounds like you are you are the resident expert on balance. And I th I very much appreciate that because as you very well know, we don't see a lot of that in the Christian higher ed. industry, especially in the business office. And it's a it's a real shame. And we talk about it a lot at ABACC We've talked about work and life balance more than once and self-care. We just talked about it in February at the ABACC conference. We talked about the importance of self-care. And I'm hoping people hear that and do something about it. I don't really feel like they are. only because the the people that I talk to, the stories that I hear, the frustrations that I hear, the turnover that I see says that people are not doing this. But I think something that you said that was super important is what is it that only I can do? And I think that's a tough statement because business officers often feel that everything's up to them. There's only one CFO on a campus. You might have a great team behind you, but there's only one CFO. And boy, that is a tough place to be when you feel like I can't leave the office. I can't go home at night. I've got to get here early and stay later than everybody else. I have to sacrifice my spouse and my children and my church life and my God. And boy, it's a tough place to be. What what do you what do you see as I the the the solutions to that are are many and varied. What what's your first what's your first step to solving that? Jessica Ryals: So Yeah, my first step is connection and it's connection with somebody who's been there. So, lean into that ABACC listserv or maybe somebody you met at the conference, or find s you know, here in Ohio we've got you can't throw a s rock without hitting a private college. So you know, find somebody who's been there. We I meet with one of my teams, my CFO colleague teams weekly, and frankly a lot of our time is just storytelling about what happened last week. And there's a little bit of troubleshooting, but it's mostly just listening and coming away with like, you're you're taking care of that too. Okay, like somehow it just feels easier knowing that somebody else is dealing with Bruce Hoeker: Mm-hmm. Jessica Ryals: it too. And every now and then there's that nugget of like, no, I saw that, and if you approach it this way, you know, it could be resolved. Bruce Hoeker: Sure. Jessica Ryals: But I'm not promising any silver bullets like that, but just making that connection and prioritizing it because I know you know, especially when you feel you're drowning, it's hard to reach out and add one more thing. But having a a community or even one person that that's been there that's in the same seat as you just to listen can help. And you know, yeah, reach out to us, reach out to anybody you've met at those Bruce Hoeker: Yes. Jessica Ryals: ABACC conferences because we've all been there. Bruce Hoeker: that's awesome. Thank you for the shameless plug, by the way. That's d that's wonderful. Jessica Ryals: Ha ha. Bruce Hoeker: I appreciate that. It is what we do here at ABACC, and I very much appreciate that. So I I'm sure you've seen a million success stories with with people who have gone through a mentorship as as the mentee. And I'm sure they come out better at the end. But I'm really thinking right now about the mentor and the the success story there because I often mentors do it because they do want to give back. They feel like they've they've taken a lot from the industry, their friends, their colleagues, and they want to give back. t do you have some examples of mentorships where there was a success story for the mentor? Jessica Ryals: I'll start with one while I'm noodling in the background. and that is for me having mentored a couple of different folks, it gave me some confidence that I knew what I was talking about. there are some times where, particularly in the controller world, we're managing so many things at such a detailed level that I think kind of some insecurity can sneak in. And so having gone through this mentoring relationship and you know showing up to our regular calls, I'd get I'm thinking of one particular mentee who would send me an email the day before with maybe five top five questions for our call tomorrow. And I'd look at all those and I'd be like, these are all solvable. and so I think it was it felt like, okay, I do know what I'm talking about here. but I think it also gave me kind of the courage to see how somebody else does it and understand that there are more options than just the way I've approached things. Bruce Hoeker: Mm. Jessica Ryals: so it really provided learning from that perspective too of stepping back and looking at, how are they solving this problem? I've also noticed in some of our folks that have done some mentoring that it really has softened them. especially Bruce Hoeker: Mm. Jessica Ryals: the ones that start out maybe feeling less suited to mentoring. It has it's a skill that you can build, which is the really good news. and so I've seen that in them where, you know, I'll reach out Sometimes now and say, hey, does anybody have an hour for this person who's dealing with this issue? And I mean, I hired my team because I think they're fantastic and to can do everything, but so many of them will put their hands up and say, like, yeah, if nobody else has already taken it, you know, we're all nobody wants to step on anybody's toes, but but I'd be happy to do that. And so just watching folks as they build that kind of mentoring skill to come to not just new knowledge themselves, but also also just deeper human connection. Bruce Hoeker: It's its own form of career development in a way. It's it's it's helping you take the next steps as much as it is helping your mentee take next steps. Sure, I can absolutely 100% see that. we we have the a similar problem. You I feel like your hands go up more eagerly, but we're often looking for mentors here at ABACC because we get lots of requests for mentorships. the the the average tenure of a CFO higher ed business officer seven years. So we are always seeing new people coming in. And this is a strange world. And having a mentor is super helpful. But I typically for each request I get for a mentor, I typically have to ask four to six people before I find one. I just feel like between the fact that yes it does, it does take some time. out of your day. If you're gonna do it, it's gonna take a little bit of time. Not like it's a daily thing, but it's adds to your plate for sure. But I I think there's a lot of people who simply convince themselves that they're not suited for that. I'm hoping that this helps our listeners to to understand the importance of mentoring someone, giving back to this community, adding to the kingdom work, I think is really vital. And it's just it's good for the soul, it's good for the the people that you're working with. And I think you feel good at the end of the day, I I would like to think. So Jessica, if there's one thing that you would like to say to our listeners today, what would that be? Jessica Ryals: I think it would be that this journey really starts with understanding yourself well and a lot of great things can flow on from that, not just in the space of mentoring and growing your team, but un being willing to kind of do the ugly work of figuring out, okay, what where am I great and where do I struggle? And let's just be honest about all of it. I think has been the thing that that's moved the needle the most. Bruce Hoeker: I have to be honest with you, every time someone asks ABACC for a mentor, I usually call anywhere from four to six people before someone says yes. Jessica gave us the reason to say yes to a mentorship opportunity. Mentoring is not a personality trait, it's a skill you can build, and it grows the mentor as much as the one being mentored. It starts with knowing yourself, being curious about the other person, and asking the question Jessica keeps coming back to. What is it that only I can do? So the next time we call, I hope your hand goes up. Thank you for listening to the ABACC podcast. If you heard yourself somewhere in this conversation, you're not the only one feeling it, because we are all working through it together. Come find your people at myabacc.org. Before we go, one more quick word about our sponsors.