Latest / Chef's PSA Podcast / She Left Finance to Open 2 Restaurants: Laila Bazahm (Ep. 191)

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She Left Finance to Open 2 Restaurants: Laila Bazahm (Ep. 191) · Chef's PSA Podcast

0:00
What was that monologue in your in your own mind like?
0:03
It's funny. Umm, it's not usually like when
0:06
I'm lying in bed. It's usually like when I'm like
0:10
going home from work, and this was in in Singapore.
0:13
Like the decompress. Yes.
0:14
And sometimes I would walk home and I'll be crying, you know,
0:18
It's like, what am I doing? Like this is crazy.
0:22
But when you say you were crying, like, what was it that
0:24
was making you? Was it the amount of work?
0:25
Hello chefs. This is Chefs PSA and I'm your
0:27
host, Andre Natera. Today my guest is Layla Basum,
0:30
chef owner of CT and El Reval in Austin, TX, one of the hottest
0:34
chefs in Austin right now. We're going to talk about her
0:37
career in finance in transitioning into to some of
0:40
the hardest kitchens, including Mugaritz and working for Joel
0:44
Rubuchon opening restaurant, securing funding and her love
0:48
for wine. If you want some insider
0:49
knowledge on how to open your first place, listen to this
0:52
episode like. You're changing your voice,
1:06
right? So what people don't know is off
1:09
camera, someone just said I have a podcast.
1:12
I have a face for television, though, right?
1:15
I don't know. Anyway, yeah, you do.
1:18
Yeah. Have a come on.
1:19
You're making me feel bad. Have a podcast voice.
1:21
I don't know if that's. I don't know if that's a good
1:23
thing or a bad thing. I guess now that I'm a
1:24
podcaster, Authoritative. Authoritative.
1:28
Yeah. Well, I used to be so afraid of
1:33
speaking publicly and I used to have a boss that encouraged me
1:37
every month to go up on stage, we have to do a book report.
1:40
So I'd have to go and do a book report and you know, whatever,
1:44
whatever book they happen to tell us to read.
1:46
And then I'd have to do not just a book report, but I'd have to
1:48
do a slideshow presentation. And the reason they made us do
1:51
the slideshow presentation is because this boss that I worked
1:54
for at the time was very business like.
1:58
Like he, he worked in, you know, a long time in New York City, He
2:01
was rubbing elbows with whoever you needed to rub elbows worth
2:05
with in the business world. And his thing was like, if you
2:07
don't know how to speak publicly and you don't know how to give a
2:10
presentation, you're not going to ever be able to command the
2:13
room and move up. And so that's why I got started
2:15
this. But actually, I'm, I was
2:17
terrified. I'm like the most reclusive
2:19
person around. Well, that's a great training
2:22
then. Right.
2:23
Are are you shy? Do you like talking publicly?
2:26
So I like conversations, right? I love small groups.
2:30
I I love that. But talking in public, you know,
2:35
I've done my share of like presentations, obviously, right?
2:38
I worked in finance before. So like, yeah, I had to do that.
2:42
Do I like it? I also went to Business School.
2:44
So, you know, you really have to do all of the presentations and
2:47
all of that. But do I love it?
2:49
No, I don't just to be honest. And it's not like I'm really
2:54
excited or you know, how some people like get their energy
2:58
from like that, you know, like from just being with other
3:02
people, just being the, the center with attention or, you
3:06
know, I, I don't like, I'm the opposite so.
3:10
It's funny because I'm so used to speaking either on the
3:16
podcast or presenting on stage. And so recently I was presenting
3:21
sitting down. I had to present something, but
3:23
I was presenting sitting down to a group and I struggled so hard
3:26
just because of the vantage point.
3:28
I'm so used to standing up and doing it.
3:30
That's interesting. But I what, what I find
3:32
interesting is that you have this finance background.
3:35
And not only do you have this finance background out of, you
3:38
know, pretty good high level, but then you transitioned into
3:40
the chef world at a very high level as well.
3:43
And you were telling me this the other day.
3:46
I thought it was crazy when you were telling me you said that
3:51
you went from, you know, being a manager in finance to like
3:55
working at Mugaritz as your first ever chef job.
3:59
Yes. What was that like?
4:00
First of all, what were you thinking and and why did you
4:03
think that? I know nothing.
4:04
I'm going to start at Mugaritz, which at one point was arguably
4:07
one of the best or still is one of the best restaurants.
4:10
In the world still is. Yeah, well, I mean, I love
4:13
Spain, and I love since it was done.
4:14
It was always my favorite food destination, right?
4:17
So I would always go there, even when I was like, working in
4:21
finance, right? I was based in Dubai, so it was
4:23
easier for me to go there. And Munkaritz was not the only
4:28
place that I, you know, you really have to knock on doors to
4:32
like, get this opportunity. What were the doors?
4:34
What were the like? The three doors that were like?
4:36
These are the ones I want to get.
4:37
Into well, I went to Arzak and flat out they said no.
4:40
It wasn't just once though. Like I went a couple of times
4:43
and it was always a no. And I'm like, OK, I need to like
4:46
look for other places I went to like some of the Pinchos, you
4:50
know, Pinchot bars there too, like just just because they cook
4:53
really well. And I just wanted like this, you
4:57
know, real life experience. How is it working in a
4:59
restaurant, right? And then I went to Nenu, which
5:02
is like one of their restaurants, Mugheritz, right?
5:05
And that's where actually like I started in Nenu.
5:08
And then they move you to their different.
5:11
They have 5 restaurants back in the day, I didn't know now, but
5:14
they move you around. So I guess I just got really,
5:18
really lucky. I mean, so many people wish they
5:20
started at Mugheritz, right? It's funny, I used to have a
5:23
girl that worked for me and she, you know, very young in her
5:26
career. I remember she was 18 years old
5:28
and then she went to go work at French Laundry.
5:30
And then I think she worked at Alex Atala Spot in Brazil.
5:35
I can't remember the name of Dom, I think right.
5:38
And shortly after that, she went to the Netherlands and she
5:41
worked in this very experimental cuisine type restaurant.
5:44
She's the sous chef over there. By the time she's 21, she's
5:47
already worked in three of the best restaurants in the world.
5:49
And she hated it. Like she's like, I don't want to
5:52
do this anymore. And she left and I think she
5:55
designs video games now. But I find it interesting
5:59
sometimes when you start at a very high level, it's very
6:03
difficult sometimes to go backwards right when you're
6:05
starting at the top. It's like, you know, we used to
6:08
joke around, say, like if your first boyfriend is Brad Pitt,
6:10
like where, where are you going to go after that?
6:12
Or if your first girlfriend's Angelina Jolie or, you know,
6:14
fill, fill in the blank, whoever's hot right now.
6:17
Sydney Sweeney. That's that's who it is.
6:19
If your first girlfriend, Sydney Sweeney, where do you go after
6:20
that? But how was it starting at a
6:25
three Michelin right? 2 Michelin. 2 Michelin.
6:27
Yeah, back then and. Then and then where do you go
6:30
after that? Because I got to imagine it's a
6:32
culture shock. You know so much about finance
6:34
and you're walking in and I'm sure you had a passion for food,
6:37
but. Well, you know, I think like the
6:40
training was really different because like, like you said,
6:45
right, like you have to be like the chefs there were like world
6:50
class, right? That their work ethic, their
6:52
talent, their it's just a different kind of mentality,
6:56
right? And they're always like, it's
7:00
their best game everyday, right? And they were doing crazy
7:03
things, right? That that was, and still, you
7:06
know, they still do right until now.
7:09
And it's, it's something that's not like I I can't think of any
7:13
wrestler in the world. That's like it, right?
7:16
And so to learn from those people, like that's just to put
7:20
yourself against those people, that's just a different
7:23
challenge, you know? And one thing that I really
7:26
learned from from these kitchens, Nino Mogheri, it's
7:29
like insane. Sebastian is like, what you
7:33
tolerate is your standard, right?
7:35
Like, it's OK to say it's not OK because it's not right.
7:41
So I kind of like, I still hear that sometimes when I like, want
7:46
to like close my eyes and pretend not to see something
7:49
that was wrong, Like, but I hear that, you know?
7:52
And it still affects me. And that's one thing that I
7:54
really carry with me until now. And I'm just grateful that I got
7:58
that training, you know? It's interesting.
7:59
I was talking with someone the other day.
8:01
I was talking with someone the other day about one thing that I
8:06
think people don't think about when you're moving up in a very
8:10
high end restaurant, whether we're talking a restaurant
8:14
that's at the top of the world's fifty or a three Michelin or two
8:17
Michelin even, or anyone that's just pushing for excellence at
8:20
the highest level that they could possibly push themselves.
8:23
When you're a cook there and you're moving into a sous chef
8:26
position, and I'm not talking about the chef owner, I'm just
8:29
talking about you're working your way up the ladder, there's
8:32
a couple of things that are rewarded.
8:35
What's rewarded is attention to detail, your ability to have
8:38
attention to detail and to spot errors in other people for sure,
8:41
right? So it's your ability to not only
8:43
notice your mistakes, but to notice the mistakes of others,
8:46
you know, with an exacting eye. And then it's your ability to
8:51
call them out. So you reward the person that's
8:54
willing to call them out because you have to let nothing pass if
8:58
it's not, if it's not on the level and you have to have this
9:02
extreme eye for detail. So when people say that a lot of
9:06
these chefs are kind of assholes, I mean, we're
9:08
rewarding the people that have the most attention to detail and
9:12
have the most confidence to call you out on it, right?
9:16
And so there is a certain, there is a certain person that moves
9:19
up very well in that system, I think.
9:23
And and not all kitchens are the same.
9:24
So I hate to say like all kitchens are like this, but the
9:29
good chef that's recognizing the talent of the up and coming cook
9:33
and the up and coming sous chef that has the attention to detail
9:36
and the confidence to call people out on their mistakes
9:39
also needs to teach them how to do it.
9:41
Absolutely right. Right, So that they're not just
9:43
saying, hey, you idiot, you know, it's like, hey, let me
9:45
explain to you why this is the way we do it, and that's why
9:47
it's unacceptable. Exactly, And like like you said,
9:50
I was nobody right, like I was a stead chair, right.
9:53
So they would give you like the most the menial stuff like
9:56
cleaning oysters or peeling potatoes.
9:59
But there's a certain way of doing things and like nothing is
10:04
too small, right for you to not really put your attention.
10:08
And this is the reason why I probably thrive in restaurant in
10:12
kitchens like jewelry bouchon. That's also like a very hard
10:16
kitchen to. Known for being a little bit
10:18
picky. Yes, well, that's his thing,
10:20
right? Attention to detail.
10:21
And again, like, I'm just grateful that I got that
10:24
training. Not that like I still like, you
10:28
know, I started late in this game, right?
10:30
I, I know that and I can never compete with the chefs who
10:35
trained like when they were 1415, you know, like it's, it's
10:39
just different, right? I still work on my craft, on my
10:43
technique every day, but I feel like sometimes it's not just the
10:47
talent, it's your attitude, it's your drive, right?
10:50
Like, do you really want to be better every day?
10:53
I think that's more important than like, you know what I mean?
10:56
Like, oh, I can really do everything, you know?
11:00
Kitchens are brutal right now, everyone knows it.
11:02
Fewer people on the line, margins tighter than ever, and
11:05
somehow the expectations keep going up.
11:07
There's just no room to miss anymore.
11:09
I was talking to a chef recently who said the biggest stress
11:12
wasn't the volume, it was the mental load.
11:14
Babysitting, food, timing, everything perfectly, trying to
11:18
be everywhere at once. And that's where equipment
11:21
matters more than people want to admit.
11:23
Rationals Technology comes up a lot in those conversations.
11:26
The Icon B Pro, the Ivario Pro, overnight roast that don't need
11:30
to be checked, custom programs for all your recipes,
11:33
consistency without hovering completely automated cleaning,
11:37
monitoring everything from your phone.
11:38
The list goes on. And what really buys you the
11:41
headspace? Less standing over pans and more
11:44
time to leave the kitchen instead of constantly putting
11:46
out tiny fires when you're down to cook, when the prep list is
11:49
rough, when the production ramps up.
11:52
Think rational. So I I know from Spain, you
11:55
spent some time in Singapore. That's right.
11:58
Yeah. And in Singapore, you're.
11:59
You're at with Joel Robichon. Yeah, how many years of cooking
12:04
had you had under your belt before you walked into that
12:06
kitchen? So not much to be honest.
12:10
So in Singapore I started with a restaurant called Saint Pierre,
12:14
which is also like a French fine dining.
12:17
And then after that I went to a Japanese Kaisaki restaurant and
12:22
that was really hard because Japanese chefs are very
12:25
particular, you know. So by then I've, I've been
12:30
probably cooking for like 3 years.
12:32
And then I went to Rebushon and I got promoted as a chef de
12:35
party, which obviously like you're responsible for, for a
12:40
station, right? So it's really hard.
12:41
It's you're, it's, it's almost like being a chef de cuisine of
12:44
a particular station. So the, the, you know, you get
12:47
everything. Like you get yelled at by, by
12:51
the chef de cuisine by, by the executive chef.
12:53
So the way that Robushon works is that you you have like a chef
12:57
de cuisine and his boss technically is the executive
13:03
chef. And then every quarter Mr.
13:06
Robuchon would come with his brigade of French chefs.
13:09
And it's, it's really nerve wracking, you know, and we can
13:13
just picture that. I can, I can.
13:16
And you know, the restaurants that you've mentioned, you know,
13:18
you're talking about a high end French, Japanese, Spanish.
13:23
And then Joel Robuchon, when you, we're coming from a finance
13:28
background and you're not, it's, it's not that you're a teenager
13:32
at this point. You have some life experience.
13:35
But were there ever moments in there that you thought, why,
13:38
what am I doing? Yes, absolutely.
13:39
Why am I doing this? Why am I because I, you don't
13:41
have to share those stories, but I'm sure you have them.
13:43
Yes, I'm sure there were moments where you're like, why am I
13:46
doing this? Why am I putting up with this?
13:47
Uh huh. Every like I said, like it's,
13:49
it's, it's tough and like in Spain, I was not paid right.
13:52
And yet, like they, you know, you have to work from 9:00 AM
13:56
until 2:00 AM sometimes, right? That's just the rhythm.
13:59
And it's like, you know, like, but I want this, right?
14:03
So I'm committed to this and were there times.
14:06
When? Hold on, Hold on.
14:07
You want what? You said?
14:08
I want this. What?
14:09
What? Do you want this life?
14:11
This. Career.
14:11
This life? Yeah.
14:12
Right. I, I at least that's what I
14:14
thought, right. And initially I gave myself like
14:17
a year to like really decide if this is really for me or not.
14:21
And it just filled me in a different way, you know what I
14:26
mean? Like there was something that
14:28
made me feel alive and I'm yes, it's tiring, yes, it's draining
14:33
physically, mentally, everything.
14:34
You know what I mean? Yes, it's not that financially
14:36
rewarding, but you know what? It gives me something that I
14:40
can't get from my previous job. So I just decided to stick with
14:45
it, you know? When was the time that you were
14:47
laying up in bed thinking like, I don't want to go to work
14:50
tomorrow and and you decided, you know what, I'm I'm going to
14:54
go to work tomorrow. What was that monologue in your
14:57
in your own mind like? It's funny.
15:00
It's not usually like when I'm lying in bed.
15:02
It's usually like when I'm like going home from work, and this
15:07
was in in Singapore. Like decompress?
15:09
Yes. And sometimes I would walk home
15:12
and I'll be crying, you know, It's like, what am I doing?
15:16
Like this is crazy. But when you say you were
15:18
crying, like what was it that was making you?
15:20
Was it the amount of work? Because I'm, I'm assuming like
15:22
you had a ton of things that needed to get done at exacting
15:25
details or was it the way people acted?
15:28
Was it you pushing yourself because you wanted to be at
15:31
their level? What was the thing that was
15:33
pushing you to cry? So I think it's a combination of
15:36
all of that, right? So the the environment is
15:39
really, this was back in 2014, right?
15:43
So it was different, right? It was, I would say toxic, you
15:49
know, but it's their like what you said, it's their way of like
15:52
pushing people to be their best, right?
15:55
Like, and, and you know, they've been trained that way, right?
15:59
So if you were trained that way, you would train other people
16:02
that way too, right? So it's that accountability to
16:06
be at your best, to really push people to, to really put out
16:11
100%, you know, their best everyday.
16:14
And it was that maybe pressure and also like thinking and
16:19
poster syndrome too, like maybe thinking that what am I doing
16:22
here? I'm not even that great, you
16:24
know, like what did I do in my life, you know, and, and
16:28
sometimes you feel worthless sometimes, you know, I'm not
16:31
going to lie. But you know, when you look
16:34
back, it's really a great training because now you, I, I,
16:38
I almost feel like I can do anything, you know?
16:40
Yeah, and I'm grateful I did that.
16:44
Wow. I mean, it's a, it's a pretty
16:45
unique experience. I'm curious, what is day one
16:49
look like when you walk into Joel Robichon's kitchen?
16:52
Well, you just have to keep up, right, Keep up with.
16:56
I remember I was training with another chef departee and he he
17:01
will just tell me like, well, we have to do it.
17:03
You have they they make their list by the way, right?
17:05
It's a, it's a very old school kitchen in that way.
17:08
Like if you think about it, they, they don't really have
17:12
systems in place like, but they know what they're doing because
17:15
these are the best of the best, right?
17:18
So they will make their own list.
17:20
You know they're responsible for their stations and you have a
17:26
list like this long and you have 3 hours to prepare it with such
17:33
detail, right? You have to bring your.
17:36
The little dots of caviar on everything.
17:38
Right. You're, and I remember there was
17:40
this dish, it's a, it's a ratatouille dish and you have
17:43
to, you have to have a ruler to make it because you have to
17:46
measure the zucchini, the everything that goes into it.
17:51
And it needs to be the exact size for everything, you know?
17:55
And I was like, and they keep like yelling at you and pushing
17:58
you, but obviously like you need time to make that right.
18:01
You know, and you're like, Oh my God, this is crazy.
18:04
And so the next day I was scheduled to, to come, we were
18:08
doing dinner service. So I, I remember that week, like
18:13
I was scheduled to, to like start at one 1:00 PM, but I came
18:17
at 9:00 fine, just because I wanted to finish my list.
18:21
Do you know what I mean? And I kept doing that and the
18:23
shop was like, what are you doing here?
18:26
Well, I mean, you know, like I have to finish my my prep list
18:30
otherwise I'll be in the weeds. Right.
18:34
And the pressure that you're putting on yourself to not let
18:36
the team down, yes, because you have this.
18:39
It's not just a matter of letting them down, it's also
18:42
this is your circle. These are the people that you
18:45
see everyday. These are the people who you're
18:47
afraid are judging you everyday, right?
18:49
Wow. What are some of the biggest
18:51
cultural differences between kitchens in Asia versus what
18:57
you've seen in the United States?
18:59
Kitchens in Asia, they're very competitive, very competitive
19:04
like, you know, like when I was in Singapore, it's mostly
19:10
Koreans, obviously, like Singaporeans, Malay, you know,
19:15
some some people from from China like and Filipinos too, like
19:20
their work ethic is crazy. So you kind of have to match
19:25
that, right? And it's like.
19:27
They want nothing else but to be great at that, yes.
19:30
Yes and and they are super competitive and and they really
19:34
want to be the best right they they want to be better than you.
19:38
You can tell, right? And for me, it's like, I just
19:42
want to be better, you know what I mean?
19:45
Because like, that's just the way I look at this.
19:48
But for them, it's a different game.
19:50
It's, it's, it's really on, you know, whereas here, I feel like
19:55
here people are more collaborative and they're more
19:58
like very based on like systems, you know what I mean?
20:03
Like, oh, this is the way we do things, you know what I mean?
20:07
There? It's, it's, it's totally
20:08
different. You know, I'm not saying that
20:10
they're not as competitive. There's some competitive folks
20:13
out here too. Maybe like New York would be
20:17
different, right? But in Austin, that's that's
20:19
basically like what I see, right?
20:21
People are totally more laid back.
20:24
They still want to produce great food, but they're not going to
20:28
like come at like 8:00 AM if they don't have to, you know
20:32
what I mean? If they're not, you know what I
20:34
mean? It's, it's just a different yeah
20:36
yeah mindset. And, and yes, times have changed
20:40
very much so and, and how kitchens are, are run, but also
20:44
what the expectation of, of the, of the cooks coming in.
20:47
If, if you could look at some of these great restaurants that you
20:53
were at and then you, you take that knowledge to where you're
20:58
at now. What are some of the things, you
21:01
know, like the culinary practices that you learned?
21:04
And I hate to keep referring to Robuchon or, or, or Mogheritz,
21:06
but you know, those are the, the household names, right, that you
21:09
now incorporate, whether it's technique wise or, or, or system
21:14
wise now or recipe wise or whatever the case may be.
21:17
What are some of those things that have stuck with you
21:20
forever? Well, Robuchon, it's my love for
21:24
sauces, obviously, the way you lay your flavors, the way you
21:30
handle meats, you know that rubuchon, all of their meats are
21:33
sous video because all of them, including the the quail, you
21:38
know, and that's how I learned how to like treat.
21:42
So is it sous video? And then it's just finished, you
21:43
know? Correct.
21:44
Or is it? But you still need to cook it.
21:46
You still need to, you know what I mean?
21:47
Right, Like they have, if you've been to like any atelier in the
21:51
world, they have like this big plancha, you know, and most of
21:56
the stuff cooked there, right. But yeah, like mugger, it's,
22:03
it's, it's a totally different cuisine, right?
22:07
It's, it's very modernist. It's do I use any of the things
22:11
that I learned there? No, I don't.
22:14
But it like forces you to like open your mind to things, right?
22:21
It's a very cerebral cuisine and it's, there's no way that I can
22:26
do that on my own. You would need a team of
22:29
chemists and you know, like special equipment and all of
22:32
that. It's, it's, I love the, the use
22:36
of science in cooking because cooking is science.
22:38
I, you know, like I'm, I believe that it's chemistry, right?
22:41
But I feel like I right now what I do and, and actually, this is
22:48
the, the, the main lesson that I learned in cooking in those
22:51
kitchens is that as a chef, you really need to find your voice,
22:55
you know, like your identity. What is your identity?
22:58
Because they would never ask you to.
23:00
Like, I feel like they would respect you if, if you can come
23:04
up with, with your own dish, you know, with your, with your soul
23:08
in it, you know, not just because you can copy anything
23:12
from Rabushania will be a great plate.
23:14
But do you really want that? Are you really going to be proud
23:16
of that, right? No, right.
23:19
So I think like it's very important to like just put your
23:24
identity out there, you know, cook it, right, right.
23:28
Use great ingredients, great techniques, but it's you, right?
23:34
People can tell that it's you. It's interesting that you said
23:37
that everything is sous video. Do you still cook that way now?
23:41
Yes, I mean because it's. Ahead of time, your proteins are
23:45
all always. Not all, especially for Asian,
23:48
Southeast Asian cuisine, right? Like, I don't always, but most
23:54
of it, yes. You know, like because it's
23:57
easier. Idiot proof, right?
23:59
Do you have a specific because I mean, when you start talking to
24:01
chefs, everyone's gonna tell you, you know, you're doing it
24:03
wrong. No matter how good it is.
24:04
They're not. You're supposed to do it this
24:06
way. What is your process from, you
24:08
know, if you could walk us through a very simple whether
24:11
it's chicken or whatever it is that you use often for sous
24:14
video from zero to finish. Yeah.
24:17
So let's say any protein, right, like could be a pork belly or
24:23
short rib. Yeah, pork belly.
24:24
So I would usually like cure it first and then use a special
24:29
paste, especially like for Southeast Asian cuisine.
24:32
This is like, it's still the way that you're supposed to cook a
24:38
traditional dish, right? But you're not obviously like
24:41
cooking it on silly. You're probably cooking on in a
24:44
spit or something, right? And charcoal grilling it or
24:47
something like that or in a Curry.
24:49
But I still prefer to like respect those techniques, like
24:55
using traditional paste and then cooking it on sous video and
24:59
then finishing it on on our charcoal grill, for example.
25:03
And when when you when you cook at sous video, are you cook at a
25:07
hotter temperature? Longer.
25:09
Shorter. Yeah, low temperature for a long
25:12
time, or 12 hours or or sometimes even 24 hours.
25:17
And then do you have like a, a rest chill method that you
25:19
particularly go through? Yeah, yeah.
25:21
What does that look like? So obviously, like you put it in
25:26
like ice bath and you always need to like measure the OR have
25:31
the temperature ready. And we have a lot too for that
25:34
because it's that's technically like our Hasip sure method, you
25:39
know, or system if you call. It do you have a rule of thumb
25:42
like some people say in the ice bath until it reaches a certain
25:46
temp or in the ice bath until you know however many however
25:51
long it was cooked for a certain percentage?
25:53
No, until it reaches like below 40 and then we can like put in
25:57
the walk in bed and and basically use that for probably
26:01
like 2 days. We don't usually like, you know,
26:04
cook a lot of things because we don't want to like keep it like
26:08
end up walking for a long time, right?
26:10
And then when you're getting ready for service and again
26:13
using the pork belly or or beef short rib or something like
26:17
that, you've taken out, you already maybe pressed it or
26:19
portioned it and then on the pickup it's just whatever.
26:23
So are you picking it up from room temperature, You picking up
26:25
from cold? What is cold from cold?
26:27
Yeah, from cold temperature and then we I have a Vibrasa at
26:32
city. It's I, I love it and.
26:34
What is that for people that don't know?
26:35
Yeah, so it's a, it's a charcoal of it.
26:38
It's like Jasper. Yeah.
26:40
You know, I think Jasper gets like the you know, it's a it's a
26:43
more known brand, right, But it does the same thing.
26:47
And the the folks actually were from Barcelona.
26:50
I I know them PETA like I I just love the product.
26:54
You know, I've used it in in Barcelona when I had a
26:57
restaurant there. And so I wanted to put it at Al
27:00
Rival, but I just can't because it's it's not going to be like
27:05
our our system can't support it, but it cannot CT so.
27:10
So from cold you go to to finishing and then that's it.
27:13
Soft. Whatever.
27:14
That's right. Yeah.
27:15
When you're when you're composing your dishes and, and
27:18
now we're moving forward a little bit because you have all
27:20
this training that, that, that you got abroad.
27:23
But at a certain point it becomes your identity, right
27:26
when you're composing your dishes.
27:28
And again, what sort of maybe we can use the pork as the example,
27:32
what sort of flavors are you going for?
27:34
How do you balance the dish before you say this is now ready
27:37
for the for guest consumption? Well, just to give you an
27:41
example, like CT for example, obviously like we, we draw from
27:46
like traditional dishes, right? Like let's say the pork, right,
27:50
It's Bobby Guling, which is the roast roasted pork in Indonesia,
27:54
right? Or the lechon in the
27:56
Philippines. So I know how that looks like
27:58
and how it tastes like. Do we cook it the same?
28:02
No, we don't. But we try to stay true to the
28:05
flavor by like again, preparing the same paste that they use for
28:09
to prepare this dish. And all of the sauces in a
28:13
croutamont that comes with it are with the dish, right?
28:17
But obviously, like we prepare it with some lettuce wrap so
28:21
it's lighter. It's not just, you know what I
28:24
mean? Like it's sometimes it could be
28:26
really heavy to, to eat it with rice, for example, or you know,
28:30
like the way that they eat it in, in Valley, for example, or,
28:33
or even in the Philippines. But I wanted it to be like
28:37
bites, you know what I mean? Like you could wrap it, you
28:40
could put some Pickles for some, you know, acidity and balance.
28:44
And then we, we usually serve it with ketchup money, which is
28:49
like a sweet soy and lime. So the, the sweet thickness and
28:53
acidity from that sauce, when you pair it with the numb Jim,
28:57
which is like a a spicy fish sauce lime condiment.
29:02
It's it's it's great. You know, I love it.
29:04
Yeah. And.
29:05
Yeah, when you, when you're creating dishes for, for, for
29:10
either restaurant, how much of it is exactly like the tradition
29:17
flavor wise, maybe, maybe you know, I know you're using some
29:20
techniques like sous video and whatnot, but flavour wise, are
29:22
you going for, I want this to taste the same way it did in the
29:26
country of origin? Or do you adjust it more so for,
29:31
you know, for for the in this case, Austin, TX pal?
29:35
I guess, like, it depends on the dish.
29:37
We have some dishes like my mom's caricare, which is, you
29:40
know, an oxtail and peanut sauce.
29:43
Like that's a traditional Filipino dish and we even serve
29:47
it in a clay, right? That's, I didn't do anything to
29:51
like, you know, make that dish mine.
29:53
I just asked my mom, like, how do you make this?
29:56
And I tried to replicate it, right?
29:59
And I, that I actually braise it, you know, like, or cook it
30:02
in the pot like my mom, right? I, I, I, I never touched it.
30:07
I never put it on a souvie because I feel like I need to
30:10
stay true to this, right? It's like my tribute to her.
30:13
Right now I have a dish on the menu that's like hiramasa crudo,
30:20
and we serve it with cold thumb cup broth that is that
30:27
traditional? No, it's not, Not at all, right,
30:29
But I would say the flavors. But it's cool.
30:33
But I think like the flavors are are there.
30:36
It's cold, you know, that's a hot soup.
30:38
But I think it's fun to make. I think it's, you know, like
30:42
it's very creative and I feel like for me, I get to play with
30:46
the flavors that I love and present it to my audience in
30:49
such a way that. Do you, do you pull?
30:51
So you're talking about a lot of Southeast Asian flavors, You
30:54
know, you're talking in Indonesian, Filipino, Thai.
30:59
Do you have, when you're writing menus either with yourself or
31:03
your team, do you have like creative guardrails?
31:06
How far outside do you go from them?
31:08
I don't set cart rails unfortunately, like I don't for
31:13
as long as it tastes great. Yeah, yes, we'll go for it.
31:18
And I don't really do a lot of R&D, you know, like I, I play.
31:21
Yeah, like what does that process look like when you're
31:23
coming up with new items to go on the menu?
31:25
Who's involved and how does the process go?
31:28
Right now it's just me, right? Because I really don't.
31:31
I mean, I have cooks. I have plenty of ideas.
31:35
Right. And that's the thing too.
31:36
Like I don't really have any Southeast Asian person in the AT
31:41
city yet, right? Maybe one day we'll have them
31:44
and they're welcome to join me. But yeah, so how does that
31:49
process look like? I've done a lot of travels in,
31:52
in Southeast Asia. Like I that's, that's, that's
31:55
one of the things that I Love, Actually.
31:57
So it's like you could do with your eyes closed.
31:59
I don't think so. Like I would, I would do a lot
32:03
of like tests, I guess, right. But that's also one thing that I
32:07
learned from Robuchon, like my my chef before, you know, he
32:11
would just he's a very talented chef, obviously, but he will
32:15
just like come up with a special, you know, in like 10
32:19
minutes, he will have an amazing dish.
32:21
Will he ever like make it again? Probably not.
32:24
But like that's one thing that I really admired from him, you
32:28
know, and I'm like, sometimes I really want to do that, but I
32:32
try not to because I know that it's it's great for me, right?
32:39
Creatively it's great, but is it great for my team?
32:42
It rattles them, right? Sometimes I do it for fun when
32:47
I'm cooking for friends, but I try not to do it as much and I
32:52
try to plan ahead just for the sake of my team because I don't
32:56
want them to like get. How do you?
32:58
Rattled. How do you go about teaching, I
33:02
don't know the cooks in your kitchen, but let's just for the
33:05
sake of conversation, American cooks who might not have a a
33:08
palate that's accustomed to some of these Southeast Asian flavors
33:11
or whatever the case, even Spanish flavors, to get some
33:16
sort of frame of reference so that they can make sure it's
33:18
consistent every time. How do you teach them that this
33:21
is what it's supposed? To right, I mean just repetition
33:24
and just being with them, cooking with them, you know, but
33:27
a good example of that is like paella, right?
33:29
We, we make our paellas fresh. That's why sometimes it will
33:32
take up to 20 minutes or if if. If I heard you make the best
33:36
paella, I haven't had it, but oh, someone said, someone said.
33:38
I mean, we tried to really do it the right way because.
33:42
What's the right way? The right way is using the right
33:46
rice which is bomba rice right? And this is, it's funny because
33:52
I've had a lot of people from Valencia would go to El Raval
33:55
and I always tell them if they're there, I always tell
33:58
them this is not a, this is not a paella.
34:00
It's aroscon cosas, right? Which is rice with stuff with
34:04
things, right? Because that's, that's how they
34:07
see this. Like the paellas in, in
34:09
Valencia, you can only make it there.
34:11
And I respect that. So I would tell them that this
34:14
is how I make my rice. I'm still very respectful of of
34:18
obviously the ingredients that I use.
34:19
It's it's from Valencia, it's bomber rice, short green rice
34:23
that could absorb like three times the amount of broth,
34:28
right? That's why we use that having a
34:31
very good broth, using amazing saffron right from Spain to
34:37
having the right kind of sofrito, right And so.
34:40
What's what's the right kind of sofrito like?
34:42
Can you walk us through the process of making your sofrito?
34:45
Yeah, for sure. I mean, I use obviously like
34:48
ripe vegetables, so onions, red bell Peppers, garlic, tomatoes.
34:55
And I love using Marfa tomato for my soprito and we cook it
34:59
down for 5-6 hours until it's it's ready.
35:03
It takes a long time to and obviously like Nora Peppers,
35:06
which are Nora Peppers are, are basically the Peppers that they
35:11
use to make pimiento, right? Paprika.
35:13
Spanish paprika so. So what would you're cooking it
35:17
slow and low. Slow and low.
35:18
Rondo or something like that, yeah.
35:19
Exactly. And you always have to watch it,
35:22
you know, That's why my prep and how I watch this, it's insane
35:26
sometimes. So you have this huge respect
35:31
for the tradition of cooking. If you mentioned stocks earlier
35:39
at Robichon and then you mentioned how you have to make
35:42
sure or sauces and then you also mentioned you have to have a
35:46
great stock when you're when you're making the paella.
35:48
That's right. What is your process?
35:50
So let's just take for example, the Paella de Marisco.
35:54
It's our best seller, right? So we use all the scrap.
35:58
We use a lot of shrimp at at at El revolve shrimp.
36:02
Yeah, because we have gamba Salahio that you know, people
36:07
just just love it, right. And so we have to peel and you
36:11
know, Deveinos every not every day basically.
36:14
So we use all of the all the scraps and we also use like
36:18
lobster heads because we have a lobster paella on the menu too.
36:21
So we use all of that right roasted, you know, with mirepoix
36:26
and then cook it that for I would say 3 hours until the
36:32
flavors are are there and then we blend that shells and all.
36:36
Yeah. So we blend that and then we
36:38
strain it. Right.
36:39
It's funny, I don't know what I was doing the other day and I
36:43
was, I think I was talking about another chef and I was like, do
36:46
you remember when we used to blend the shells and everything
36:48
and strain it out for sauces and soups like that?
36:50
Because I noticed a lot of people don't do that anymore.
36:53
I was thinking to Mike, was I crazy and only working in
36:55
kitchens that did that or and like they like I learned a habit
36:59
that you shouldn't do, but I was like, I could swear that
37:01
everyone would blend their shells, lobster shells, shrimp
37:04
shells. Absolutely.
37:05
That's the that's the body of the that's why it has body and
37:09
protein, right? Like the volume of the the.
37:12
Otherwise it's just going to be like a thin sock.
37:15
Well, I see a lot of people these days just straining that
37:16
out and just thickening it like they they're not blending the
37:19
shells anymore. Old school way old school.
37:23
Right cooking. Cooking when you know, with when
37:26
you didn't have everything. We used to thicken our bisques
37:30
with rice. Oh wow, yeah, yeah, I heard of
37:33
that technique. Yeah, we would throw the rice in
37:35
there too. Yeah, I love AI.
37:37
Mean, I love shellfish stock. Anyway, sorry.
37:39
And that's one thing that you can't like replicate like
37:43
otherwise how are you going to get that flavor from like those
37:45
pre made sauces? Like yeah, you can't, you can't,
37:48
right? You can really taste it.
37:50
And I, I feel, I feel like I've done that enough, like the
37:55
foundation of a good paella. So now I can put my flavors in,
37:59
right? Because I, I like, OK, this is
38:02
how it's done the traditional way, but let me put my touch or
38:08
my twist on it, right? So for example, the the the
38:11
Marisco, we finished that with a little bit of amokeka, which is
38:14
a Brazilian, you know, seafood Stew just for some creaminess
38:19
and for some, you know, to, to basically like give it a lip,
38:24
right. We finish it with aioli as well.
38:28
Traditional skin beets, just eggs, egg yolk, good Spanish
38:33
olive oil and garlic on the side.
38:36
And obviously like fresh, you know, Gulf seafood, if we can
38:40
get it, you know, like the shrimp, for example, we get it
38:42
from here. Mussels obviously are from Pi
38:46
and crab and whatever else, you know, Oh, scallops.
38:50
We we've put some some scallops in there too, so.
38:53
How has the, I mean, congratulations.
38:56
I I kind of know the answer. I'm kind of leading you to talk
38:58
about yourself, But how has the Austin community been receptive
39:01
of your restaurants? Now I already know the answer
39:05
because I've seen, you know, best restaurant coming up.
39:07
Michelin recommended. Congratulations.
39:10
Yeah. Thank you.
39:11
How's it been? Well, it's been nothing but joy,
39:14
right? Like it's I'm super grateful for
39:17
the support that we've been getting right.
39:20
And I always tell that, you know, I'm super grateful,
39:24
especially like at El Revolver approaching our third year
39:27
anniversary and I would say like 50% of our base are repeat
39:33
guests. So I mean, I love that because
39:36
like in Europe, like my first restaurant in, in Barcelona,
39:40
that's how we roll, right? We cook for the locals, for the
39:43
people around this, right? That's, that's our lunch
39:46
business. Like you would see the the same
39:48
faces over and over again. And that's how I actually had to
39:53
come up with a different menu every day just so for them to be
39:58
not, you know, like, I don't want to bore them with the same
40:00
things over and over again. So I kind of have to cook
40:03
something for them every day, you know?
40:05
Yeah. And and I feel that here too.
40:07
Like, you see, familiar faces, people getting engaged and then
40:12
ending up choosing us for their wedding reception.
40:16
So that's it's like being a part of.
40:20
Well, we are a part of the community and we find ways to
40:22
really like give back when we can, right?
40:25
But it's, it's, it's, it's, it's an amazing journey, so.
40:30
I want to, I want to, you know, change subjects a little bit
40:34
because you have a very interesting background in
40:36
finance and you are now you have two restaurants.
40:42
And for a lot of people that listen to the podcast, a lot of
40:45
times they're thinking about starting their own restaurant.
40:48
And one of the more difficult things is a lot of people have
40:51
the idea that this is what I want to do, But then they get
40:53
stuck because they don't know how to move on to the next step.
40:55
They don't know how to negotiate.
40:56
At least they don't know what they should be looking at.
41:00
You have these the two restaurants now, but you've had
41:02
other restaurants before and you have a background in finance.
41:06
So if we were looking at opening up a restaurant, this is a
41:10
hypothetical restaurant, imaginary restaurant that we're
41:13
going to help people with. What are some of the things that
41:16
we should advise people from a financial side #1 like, OK, how
41:20
are we going to raise the capital?
41:21
What's the, what's the best way to do that?
41:23
How should we structure an investment deal?
41:26
If we're, if we're looking at investors for payback, what
41:29
should that be based off of? Is it gross sales, net sales,
41:32
EBITDA, Whatever the case may be, I know that's a lot I just
41:36
threw at you. So I'm going to let you, with
41:38
your finance background, take the wheel.
41:43
You know how to cook. That's not the problem.
41:44
The problem is getting your team to do what you want when you
41:47
want it. That's leadership.
41:49
My book, Culinary Leadership Fundamentals breaks down exactly
41:52
how to run a kitchen without losing your mind.
41:54
Stop yelling. Start leading.
41:55
Get the book at Chefs psa.com. Well, first of all, if if I'm
42:00
opening a restaurant right now, well, I've always done this
42:03
anyway, right? I would look for a second Gen.
42:05
space, right? Second generation restaurant.
42:09
That means I wouldn't have to put up for build out costs
42:13
because God knows how that's just a big barrier now.
42:17
You know to open a restaurant it would cost you 1,000,000 now.
42:21
And if you find a space that's second Gen., make sure you
42:26
negotiate with the current tenants, if they can even like
42:34
do an owner financing in such a way that you could probably, you
42:39
know, pay them in terms right, whether that's.
42:43
Yeah, explain that a little bit, because owner financing is
42:45
something that I don't think anyone's talked about on this
42:47
show, OK. And so that might be a
42:49
completely foreign concept. Sure.
42:51
So can you explain what? Owner is yeah.
42:53
So owner financing is just asking the the current owners of
42:57
the restaurant that you're you want to acquire right to to
43:01
basically finance you. So you, instead of getting the,
43:04
the money from a bank, you know, as a loan, you basically tell
43:08
them, OK, I'm going to buy a restaurant for X amount, give me
43:13
a payment plan and I'll pay you monthly, you know, or every
43:16
quarter, you know, until we complete the, you know, I'll
43:21
give you a deposit. But obviously like I'll, I'll
43:23
pay this over a period of time. And if you can do that, you
43:28
know, great. So I don't have to ask the bank
43:30
for, for, for capital. You know, you still have to
43:34
probably ask the bank or friends and family for capital because
43:37
you have to, you know, basically like redesign the space, do
43:42
branding, you know, working capital and all of that.
43:46
And it's another thing too, like, I think as a restaurant,
43:50
having enough capital is really like the key.
43:53
You don't want to go in undercapitalized.
43:55
What is what is? What is enough capital?
43:57
What would be enough capital that you would advise someone
43:59
on? I would say like you have to do
44:01
your performa right? And that's your, you know, your,
44:04
your cost, your labor cost, your ingredient cost, your rent
44:08
obviously. And if you have like 2 months to
44:11
three months of that, I would say that's, that's good.
44:14
Some people advise you to do like 6 months, which is I think
44:18
that's a lot to be honest. But that's just give you like
44:23
the security that okay, if this month, you know, turns out to be
44:27
really slow, I'll be open the next month, right?
44:32
But obviously, like I, I, I hope that, you know, you're doing
44:35
something too to like really help you.
44:37
And that's why you really need to take into account like
44:40
marketing, right? PR now, Instagram ads, all of
44:45
this, you know what I mean? So it's, those are really
44:48
important. And no one tells you these
44:51
things when you open a restaurant and they always tell
44:54
you that, OK, location, location, location, and you have
44:57
to have good food and then what? Right, right.
45:01
I think you have to have a very good service team that would
45:04
deliver, especially for chef owners, because I feel like
45:08
we're really focused in the back of house your food.
45:12
I'm sure like a lot of chefs can, you know, can can deliver
45:17
just, you know, on the food alone.
45:20
But like, you have to like look at this in such a way that it's
45:26
a whole package, right? It's a service, it's your
45:28
beverage, right? Your cocktail program, your wine
45:31
program, your NA program, all of that.
45:34
You know what I mean? And it's it's, it's a lot of
45:36
moving parts, so. So you're you just just to recap
45:41
second Gen. Space owner financing if
45:44
possible, if possible, if possible, have enough operating
45:48
capital for a few months. Now if you are seeking investors
45:54
and you have to, you have to raise capital, what sort of deal
46:00
are you trying to structure with investors to pay them back?
46:04
So I always feel that if it's the first project, always go for
46:10
friends and family, right? Because these are the people who
46:16
care most about your success, right?
46:18
Like they would rally for you, right?
46:20
They want you to be successful and obviously they want their
46:23
money back, right? I mean, as far as the terms, I
46:29
would say like there are like a million ways to structure a
46:35
deal, right? You could give them like a
46:38
benefit, for example, like, OK, I can give you food credit every
46:42
month. You know, this part of your, you
46:44
know, that's part of the perk of like investing with us.
46:48
Or you could come up with like the terms like, OK, we can work
46:54
on an interest rate that's really friendly.
46:57
That's not a floating rate, especially now that interest
47:00
rates are, well, they're going down, but like still they're
47:03
high, right? So you can talk them into that.
47:06
And I, I think just being a fraud and like telling them
47:10
that, hey, if this works, there should be an upside for you too,
47:17
right? Whether that's profit sharing,
47:19
whether that's you know, and I, I, I feel that it's very
47:23
important to do it net net, right, like profit, right, none
47:27
and not to give up the house by giving them gross sales.
47:30
Right. I'm, I'm thinking about it like
47:31
interest rates and cost of capital and, and, and like when
47:36
is a good time, right? When is a good time to to to
47:39
borrow that money? And there are also other like in
47:44
kind is one of those, right? So they provide capital and then
47:48
you, you give them back credits. Or I'm sure it's, it's not the
47:51
only company that does it, but we've worked with them before.
47:55
And that's it gets expensive if you think about it, because
47:58
it's, it's a lot of food credit. And you can argue that it's your
48:01
COGS, but obviously like it's your rent too.
48:04
It's your laborers. So you have to take in.
48:07
And and then there's ways to structure licensing and leases.
48:11
That's right. I mean, do you have any general
48:14
thoughts on on if you were going to get a licensing agreement or
48:19
you know, because a lot of a lot of times hotels and things like
48:21
that will you're, you're in a hotel, you don't have to, you
48:24
don't have to talk about that actually.
48:27
But you know, for people that sometimes look at a licensing
48:29
deal, what sort of things would you advise someone without
48:34
getting too granular? Yeah, sure.
48:36
Of your deal. I think the number one advice is
48:39
get you a great lawyer, right do.
48:42
You have a great lawyer. Yeah, I do actually, because
48:47
someone actually told me this, that you don't look for a cheap
48:52
neurosurgeon, right? Like, you know, if, if, if
48:55
you're going to have a surgery, like you want the best, right,
48:58
right. You're not going to look for
48:59
who's the cheapest one out there.
49:01
I think like for lawyers it should be the same because these
49:04
are the problems that you avoid in the future, right?
49:07
If if you have a good agreement and structure in the 1st place,
49:12
then you would, you would have something to protect you, right?
49:16
Because that's the thing too. Like you don't really need this
49:19
when everything is working well, right?
49:21
You need them when things don't go right, Right.
49:25
Yeah. You know.
49:26
Yes, that's what the prenups for.
49:27
Right, exactly. Now, looking at it from the
49:31
opposite end of your career when you were in finance, what would
49:34
you be looking for if you were the financer when someone's
49:38
coming to you with a business plan to make sure that it's
49:41
going to receive funding? Yeah.
49:43
Well, that's a great question. Well, I would say that invest in
49:48
people, right and not ideas, right.
49:50
I want to see the person's track record, right?
49:55
How are they right? How are because it's sometimes
49:58
like being a great chef does not really translate to being a good
50:02
entrepreneur. Those are two different things,
50:04
right? Is this person entrepreneurial?
50:07
You know, like, because you could work for someone and still
50:10
be a very good entrepreneur by like, you know, looking at cost
50:16
everyday, like finding ways to like add revenue to the business
50:20
and, and treat it like your own business, right.
50:23
So if you can really show that that you have that track record
50:27
and you're willing to really do what it takes and it's not easy,
50:31
You know, I've you know, I can tell it's not it you, you give
50:35
up a lot, you give up a lot of time.
50:38
Your, you know, your relationships and, and it's,
50:42
it's very, you know, draining tube.
50:44
But if if you're willing to really do what it takes to to
50:47
succeed and make it work, then yeah, I will.
50:52
I'll say yes. So, yeah, and this is thank you
50:55
for sharing all that. That's fascinating.
50:56
A lot of people that listen to the show, we're going all
51:00
obviously I don't know who listens to the show, but a lot
51:02
of chefs. A lot of chefs want to open
51:04
restaurants. A lot of chefs have closed
51:05
restaurants. A lot of chefs sometimes need to
51:09
hear that one thing that where the light bulb goes off.
51:13
And you've shared a lot of really great knowledge today, so
51:17
I appreciate that. What do you do to unwind?
51:21
Like, I'll tell you what I do. I mean, I'm pretty boring.
51:23
Like I smoke cigars and drink whiskey.
51:25
I'm not I'm not that like people like what do you do?
51:29
Like I smoke a cigar, shout out to Escobar cigars.
51:32
That's that's the ones I liked great.
51:35
And then I'll drink like an old fashioned.
51:36
I love talking like I get paid to talk.
51:39
I love to just sit down and talk to my chef friends.
51:41
What do you do to unwind? Like what do you like?
51:43
Do you like wine? Or yeah, I do love wine.
51:45
So I'm very passionate about wines.
51:47
And it's funny because now that I think about it, what really
51:51
got me into wines was when I was working at Robuchon, there was
51:54
this. I remember he was a familiar,
51:57
and he would always like, give me like, you know, sniff this or
52:01
taste this, you know, And it was like a glass of a beautiful
52:04
burgundy. And that's what got me into
52:06
burgundy. And I'm like, Oh my God, this is
52:08
so special, you know? Do you like Texas wine?
52:12
I've had some good Texas wine, you know, and I really respect
52:16
the the way that they represent the turmoil and what Texas could
52:20
offer. It's not easy, right?
52:23
But I think there are a lot of wine makers out there that's
52:26
doing great for for what we have here, you know?
52:30
Yeah, from a financial strategy, I do like wine, especially
52:33
obviously in restaurants because you could have a table that no
52:37
matter how much how much you want them to spend there, they
52:41
might cap out at $250 because that's that's as much as they're
52:45
going to eat. But once you add wine, it's like
52:47
all of a sudden that $250 check and maybe go to 1000 or beyond,
52:52
right? Wine is the one thing that could
52:53
do that and it's low, low effort.
52:57
Yeah, right. Besides storage, it appreciates
53:00
a lot of times. So it's a good, it's good, you
53:01
know, the in the finance world, I guess maybe that's like a, an
53:04
appreciated asset sometimes. I never thought of it that way,
53:09
but I love that. Right, because I mean, you have
53:12
all the perishable assets. That's right.
53:14
You know the the cilantro and the cooler?
53:16
Yes, you know you can buy $1000 worth of cilantro, $1000 worth
53:19
of wine. True.
53:22
That's why running a bar is so much easier than running a
53:25
restaurant, right? Like and it takes like obviously
53:28
now there are amazing cocktail bars out there, right?
53:31
Like, but it technically like you don't really need a lot of
53:34
people to to run a bar, right, If you think about it, because
53:38
like you said, low effort, right, you don't need to.
53:41
Yeah, you need to prep me. You got to know though.
53:43
But one of the things that you have to know is yes, it's low
53:45
effort, but if you want to make that sale, you better know.
53:48
You got to know your shit. When it comes to wine, you know
53:50
your shit. I mean, I try to.
53:53
I try. You're being modest.
53:55
You're being modest. What what?
53:57
What are some of your studies with wine?
53:59
Well, I have a Level 3 in WSET, so that's it.
54:02
It requires a lot. A little bit.
54:04
It requires a lot of discipline, I guess, and, but I'm fascinated
54:09
by it. I, I, I love the process.
54:11
I love learning about different places, right?
54:14
And how geology farming could affect everything it is like if
54:21
you think about it. Yeah, expand.
54:22
Well, there are a lot of factors that affect like how you know a
54:28
wine can be right and could evolve into right.
54:32
So it's not just about obviously the climate is 1.
54:36
The soil human factor is another one.
54:39
How you pick up the grapes from pressing them with, with stems,
54:45
with skin or you know, like everything is like a factor,
54:48
right? And obviously like, how do you
54:51
venify them? Do you put them in a stainless
54:53
steel and oak? Or you know, like there's a
54:56
million ways to to, to basically make wine, right?
55:00
And do you drink it now? Do you do you wait for a couple
55:05
of years to, you know, really appreciate it?
55:08
And it's those things that really fascinates me.
55:11
And it's, it is such an art, but it's also obviously like a
55:15
science, right? And, and it's, I, I feel like
55:20
it's cooking, but it's harder than cooking because where else
55:23
can you find something where you make the product now?
55:29
And then you will have to wait for like a year or even
55:33
sometimes a year. This the normal fermentation
55:36
lab. So just to, to, to #1 to sell,
55:39
right, or to enjoy, right, That that's, that's crazy, right?
55:43
If you think about it, it takes a little, you have to be crazy
55:47
to, to do, to do it, especially in this day and age, right?
55:51
So, and I just admire that. I, I love it.
55:54
Well. Before we wrap up, I like to, I
55:56
like to give people my wrap up questions.
55:58
So the first one is if you had four chefs on the Mount Rushmore
56:03
of chefs, so if you had to name four, OK, who would be on there
56:06
for you? That's a great question.
56:10
I would say Vitor from Echebari, because I know that he can start
56:15
a fire anywhere. You know, he'll just probably
56:18
grab some some wood from I don't know where, but like he could
56:24
start a fire and make hunt maybe and make a great meal.
56:30
Who else? I would say Kiki de Costa is
56:33
another one. He's a Spanish chef.
56:37
He is an amazing chef because he loves to really feature
56:44
Valencia. He's he's a chef from Valencia.
56:46
He has a three Michelin star, so it's he's famous in his region.
56:52
And then the next one would be David Munoz from Sticho de
56:57
Vercho. His his creativity is like,
57:00
whoa, you know, he also loves to travel and and this is the the
57:05
kind of chef that I was talking about.
57:07
Like, you know, like they know their shit, right?
57:11
I'm sorry, I have to say. You can discuss, I mean, I've,
57:13
I've toned it down for you. OK, There's a there's an
57:16
explicit sticker on the on the podcast.
57:19
But like, these are some of the chefs who really know what
57:23
they're doing but chooses to do, you know, like, crazy things
57:27
like what he's doing, like putting together different
57:30
flavors and still making it work and making it an amazing dish,
57:33
right? He's known for that.
57:35
And that's one thing that I really, really admire.
57:39
And maybe the last one would be Dominic Crenn.
57:42
Yeah. I love her elegance, her the
57:47
simplicity, Right. And yet it's so refined.
57:50
It's. Yeah, that's.
57:51
That's one that's really. That's a that's a great list.
57:54
That's a that's a great list. In your kitchen when you're
57:58
seasoning, what is your all-purpose salt that you use?
58:01
Is it? What do you use?
58:03
Like if you're just on the salt station here.
58:05
My my cooks would know this or anyone that I work with Malden
58:09
salt like I could be the ambassador for Malden salt
58:12
because for everything. Not for everything though, but
58:16
mostly to to basically for sauces, for example, I use
58:20
Malden salt. For finishing obviously I use
58:23
it. Why for sauces?
58:25
Because I feel like it's not too like super salty, you know, the
58:29
flavor is there, but it's refined, right?
58:32
I, I, I just love it that way. I sometimes use Florida cell
58:36
because that's, that's what I learned from which one they use
58:39
that right? And, and here sometimes I, I
58:42
can't find it. So I use melting salt, But it's
58:45
those two sauces, although, or, or salt.
58:48
I mean, although I love some artisanal salt.
58:53
I recently got some from the Philippines and it's they're
58:57
great. They're not easy to, to to find
58:59
someone gave it to me because they were they were there and
59:03
they just happened to have some. I've I've cooked with Sally
59:08
Ibiza as well, like Ibiza, like in Spain, obviously like they,
59:12
they have like salt pads, I guess.
59:15
And it's, it's, it's, it's amazing, right?
59:18
Because. You know, there's a difference,
59:19
yeah. Yeah.
59:20
Interesting. I'll give you some.
59:23
Yeah, yeah, please. Yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm going to
59:26
come see you. I think the last question I
59:28
would ask you is where can people find you if they want to
59:31
try your food and if they want to follow along?
59:32
Yeah. So we are at Alver Mall.
59:36
It's a Spanish tapas bar. We're located in South on South
59:40
Lamore. So yeah, come see us there.
59:43
And the other restaurant is at East St. 11th St. it's called
59:48
City. It's a Southeast Asian
59:50
restaurant, so. Yeah, well, thank you so much.
59:52
This was fun. Absolutely appreciate you being
59:54
here and sharing your your wild story.
59:57
Thank you so much for having me. This has been fun.
1:00:00
And you and you made it super nice for me.
1:00:03
You know, I didn't feel that we were, you know, on a fat cast.
1:00:09
All right, that's the show. If you liked it, make sure you
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