Latest / money loyalty legacy / John Alite: Working for John Gotti, Mafia Violence & Street Fights (Part 3)

Transcript

John Alite: Working for John Gotti, Mafia Violence & Street Fights (Part 3) · money loyalty legacy

0:00
And he's trying to get me to go to the floor with him.
0:03
And I didn't know if he would, if he knew how to wrestle or
0:05
what. Well, just that he was some wife
0:07
up and he wanted me to go to the floor.
0:08
Finally, I go to Joe. That's it.
0:10
I said, who do you want me to do?
0:11
The guy? He said, are we done?
0:13
So he he goes, yeah. And he gives me my gun back and
0:15
I turn around and I said, all right, TT And I shoot him in
0:17
that. So everybody looks at me and I
0:21
throw him in the trunk of my car and I get in the car and I got a
0:24
guy with me and we start hearing the trunk.
0:28
We're going to make AU turn. I said is this boom, boom, boom?
0:32
I think he's dead. He's not dead.
0:34
We open the trunk and he jumps out.
0:37
He kicks at me, He goes crazy and he starts running.
0:57
What's up guys? You subscribed yet?
0:59
Are you not entertained? Are you not entertained?
1:02
If you're entertained, please hit that subscribe button.
1:04
Help us out. This is part three with Mr. John
1:07
A Light and we have training footage and hanging out with him
1:11
on his compound all afternoon in our Patreon channel.
1:15
Champ, take it away. I got nothing else to say.
1:18
Let's fucking go all. Right, right.
1:22
Have you ever seen movie King of New York with Christopher?
1:24
Walken yeah, I love it. Actually.
1:25
It was supposed to be based on Mark Wright.
1:27
I don't know if that's true or not.
1:29
So Mark Wright, if you look him up is, you know, he was a slick,
1:33
slick dress, a good looking guy, 6 foot 5, big ball player,
1:37
tennis player, racquetball player, lived in 58th and 2nd in
1:41
it, in the penthouse. He had some life until he got
1:44
locked up so. Did you ever see a little bit of
1:47
yourself in that movie at all? I mean, just the elements of it,
1:50
like being in New York, having all this money, like it being
1:53
your playground. Like when Ross and I were
1:55
entering New York yesterday, we're landing, you see all the
1:58
lights, you know what I mean? It's just it's, it's really
2:01
captivating. You see it for the first time.
2:03
But to be able to be a somebody in the city in your heyday, have
2:08
millions of dollars, go anywhere you want, people are letting you
2:10
in, have all the women you can. You're doing things that most
2:14
guys will go their whole lives never knowing what that's like,
2:17
you know what I mean? I think it's just the excitement
2:20
I talk about all the time. It's the adrenaline.
2:22
I think a lot of gangsters, serious gangsters, not the one
2:25
because there's really honestly out of and you know, I hate
2:28
there's some really tough guys out there.
2:29
Don't get me wrong. In, in, in every group, not just
2:32
the Italian mob, the American Italian mob, the Italian mob,
2:35
Spanish, the Colombian guys. There's always a handful of
2:38
tough guys, but 90% of them are frauds.
2:41
There's the 10% that aren't frauds.
2:43
But I think all of us, the 10% of the guys I'm talking about,
2:46
whether it's, you know, El Chapo or this guy or whatever name
2:50
you're going to use, right? The, we all have something
2:53
common is the adrenaline. It's the adrenaline you like
2:57
challenging your life because it brings such excitement, right?
3:01
And I think that's the key. So you learn to change that.
3:05
You know, people ask, well, how do you deal with that now?
3:07
Because every the, the adrenaline for me now was one
3:10
thing was to make it back again after losing everything to be
3:14
successful, which I did in a legitimate way this time.
3:17
And the other adrenaline rushes to save lives.
3:20
See how I work on these cases with guys in prison.
3:22
They always tell me thank you, thank you.
3:24
And I'm telling them no thank you too because I'm trying to
3:27
help because it makes me feel good.
3:28
If I can help you save your life.
3:30
It's that adrenaline rush. If I can help those kids when I
3:33
go to Southside of Chicago, because you're from over down
3:35
there and I so see Bugatti or these guys that see me or I go
3:39
see a friend of mine that's talking to me, just came home
3:42
from prison to 20 something years.
3:44
He lost his child too, and he was involved in the streets in a
3:47
serious St. gang. I won't mention it.
3:49
Oh, it doesn't matter. But when we talk, it's that
3:52
adrenaline about saving the kids lives now.
3:55
So it's a different adrenaline, but it's such a +1 now and it's
3:58
about God, you know, I get involved with.
4:02
There's a there's the there's our friend.
4:05
Actually, it's Gene. Yeah, that's right.
4:08
That's right. Talk to him.
4:10
Hello. You're on the air right now.
4:17
Yeah. Yeah.
4:18
We got you on the air while we're talking.
4:19
Yeah. You just called.
4:20
I wasn't going to answer. I go look who it is.
4:22
It's Gene. You're on my Get Smart watch.
4:26
I remember when I used to watch Get Smart years ago.
4:28
Now I got this. Watches are real.
4:32
Nothing. We're just in the.
4:33
We're in the middle of it. So this is good that you called.
4:36
So what? Up gene?
4:37
Not much. We're just going through a
4:43
murder. I'll call you back when we're
4:45
done. I'll call you back in a little
4:51
while. All right.
4:52
See you. Well, since you, since you,
4:54
that's awesome, by the way, since since you brought murder,
4:57
you got you have to tell this story.
4:58
I don't, I don't know if you've told a lot.
5:00
I know you've told it before, but basically you went to a club
5:05
and there were some other guys at the club that you didn't get
5:08
along with. They had guns.
5:09
You had guns and then you went up to the one guy and you said,
5:13
I don't know how you phrased it. Why don't you tell a story?
5:15
But I don't know which one this one is.
5:18
OK, my bad because there's so many different ones.
5:20
Why don't you stop? Why don't we handle this like
5:21
man? Or stop being a Let's put the
5:23
guns. Down.
5:24
Oh, OK, OK, gotcha. OK.
5:26
This is on 116th St. This is TT.
5:29
And I wasn't sure if I was the one with all the cops in Nassau
5:32
County because they all had guns.
5:33
I didn't. They all pulled on each other.
5:35
I don't know if you know this thing.
5:36
We'll get into that one. And then the cops came and
5:39
they're all point and they're all cops.
5:40
They're all cops. I'm the only one who ain't
5:42
pulling a gun. But that's another thing.
5:44
But the one you're talking about is Flight 116.
5:46
We had a drug spot there and they robbed my drug spot a
5:49
couple of times. So I go there and Little Joe is
5:53
actually a cousin of Gene. He's he's an older guy.
5:56
He's dead now. But Little Joe stayed with these
5:59
guys, a guy Manny him TT and it was a big drug spot for me.
6:04
I was getting 1600 a week from just the shakedown part.
6:08
Plus I was moving kilos in pieces there and they robbed it
6:10
a couple times. So prior to that, I went there
6:13
with a 22 Ruger 50 shot clip. We were going to Metro 700 at
6:19
night. Friend of mine, Tony was
6:21
driving, had another guy in the back seat and the other guy in
6:24
the back seat and on the street, he just happened to be in the
6:27
car. He didn't know we were going or
6:28
something. Tie.
6:29
I had a pillow case. I had the 22 broken down.
6:32
I opened it up and put it back into a banana clip.
6:35
And then he knows something's up.
6:36
I get on one knee and I shoot three or four guys.
6:40
I leave, we go buried a gun. We go out and they go.
6:42
You know where you going? I'm still going to club.
6:44
Couple weeks later they robbed me again and it's TT.
6:48
So I go there and I pull out a gun.
6:50
They all pull guns on me and this is the mentality.
6:54
This is like you think you're invincible because you're
6:55
younger. What?
6:56
I don't know what the is going through my mind, but and Joe
6:59
says to me, give me the gun John, don't be be a man with the
7:02
gun down and fight the guy. So I said, Joe, I got your word.
7:07
You know, now he's the boss at that time's nephew.
7:11
The. Boss.
7:12
Of of the Gambino family of our neighborhood, Andy's nephew.
7:16
So he uses John. Of course I ain't going to, you
7:19
know, I'm Andy's, you know, nephew.
7:22
I said, all right, I give him the gun.
7:24
I go outside and TT's a small guy.
7:26
He's only myself. He ain't a big guy or nothing,
7:28
but he's tough and he's dusted by the way.
7:32
So I'm boxing on my and he goes down, but I won't wrestle on him
7:35
because I know he's strong, right?
7:37
So I let him get back up. He goes down, but he won't stay
7:40
down. I get up, I put him down again.
7:42
I keep putting him down and he's trying to get me to go to the
7:46
floor with him. And I didn't know if he knew how
7:48
to wrestle or what, just that he was up and he wanted me to go to
7:51
the floor. Finally, I go to Joe.
7:53
That's it. I said, who do you want me to
7:54
do? The guy?
7:55
He said, are we done? So he goes, yeah, and he gives
7:58
me my gun back and I turn around and I said all right, TT and I
8:01
shoot him in that. So everybody looks at me, no,
8:08
it's pouring rain. So it's pouring rain and he's
8:11
bleeding. I pick him up and he's just
8:13
bleeding. Like, you know, it's raining.
8:15
And I'm right across street, right on the main 101st Ave.
8:17
116th Street is packed, but it's pouring.
8:20
I mean pouring really hard. And I throw him in the trunk of
8:22
my car. And I get in the car and I got a
8:24
guy with me and we start hearing the trunk.
8:28
We're going to make AU turn. And I said, is this boom, boom,
8:34
boom, I think he's dead. He's not dead.
8:36
We open the trunk and he jumps out.
8:38
He kicks at me. He goes crazy and he starts
8:40
running. And I look at my friend and I'm
8:43
going holy, you know, I have me be alive, right?
8:47
So he goes where we going. I go get on to Van Wyck
8:50
Expressway and I start stripping naked because I said to him,
8:54
he's got to die. He's going to drop.
8:55
He's, you know, he got shot in the head.
8:56
There's no way he's going to live.
8:58
So I'm getting naked in the car and I'm throwing my clothes out.
9:01
So if the cops pull us over, 'cause just did that like wide
9:05
open, everybody knows it's us. What Car we came and I'm so now
9:09
I'm Naked, completely naked. I says to him, listen, go run
9:12
and we're going to stop. And you know, we got drug
9:13
houses. I go, go in, go in Dennis's
9:15
house and he's like my size. Dennis's dead now to him and
9:18
Kevin. They were really too ice guys
9:20
loyal with me. I says go get me some clothes
9:23
from so he gets me clothes and I go, I put the clothes on.
9:26
I go, I'm just going to stay here and I go in his apartment
9:29
and I'm waiting and I go find out if this guy's dead so we
9:33
don't hear nothing. Two days, three days.
9:35
And I'm sleeping like crazy. And they're like, how to are you
9:38
sleeping after shooting this guy in the head?
9:42
But the truth is, and I didn't even know this at the time, like
9:45
I'm like, why am I sleeping so much?
9:47
But actually you sleep because of the anxiety.
9:50
And I didn't know this. Later on, I found out I was in
9:53
the wonder why I was sleeping because I wasn't relaxed.
9:55
It was just out of nerves. I'm sleeping and he ends up
9:59
living this, I guess the way the bullet went in and went out,
10:02
whatever. So I shot another guy, Ricky
10:05
Stratton, on the Interboro Parkway with guys too.
10:09
And I shot him in the head. And then later on, he dies a
10:13
month later, but in the hospital.
10:14
And I didn't know. One of the, you know, one of the
10:17
law enforcement told me, you know, I said how come I wasn't
10:20
charged with this murder? You know, 'cause I, this is
10:22
later on. And he says, well, he actually
10:25
died in the hospital a month later.
10:26
The bullet came out on the pillow when he was there, but he
10:30
was also sick at the time. So I don't know exactly the
10:34
legalities of it. I mean, it was an attempted
10:36
murder charge, but I wasn't charged with murder.
10:38
I should have been, I guess. I mean, I shouldn't advocate
10:41
against myself, but, but either way, I got charged with
10:44
attempted murder. But these guys are getting shot
10:46
in the head. And now I got a good friend and
10:49
he's very well known and he was one of my enemies at the time,
10:52
Cookie Dorso. He got shot in the head and he
10:55
lived and his cousin got killed in the same hit when they tried
10:58
to hit him. So we're we're very good
11:00
friends, by the way. Hello Cookie.
11:02
So the he was on the he was involved with the other family,
11:05
with the West side Genovese family and tough guy.
11:09
But it happens. Guys get lucky and they and they
11:12
live through and my friend Prince, the fighter by the Fort
11:16
Roy Jones Junior that you're wearing a shirt.
11:18
He got shot in the chest a couple years ago, two years ago
11:21
and the bullet's still in it. And he I don't know how the fuck
11:24
he lived and that bullet was, they say like slightly less than
11:28
1/4 of inch more. He's dead.
11:30
There's nothing they could do for him.
11:31
So it's part God, you know, and maybe just meant to be.
11:35
And you know, I bet they try to kill me.
11:37
I don't know how many times shoot me, shoot at me.
11:39
And I just got lucky too. So it's a lot of luck and maybe
11:42
something with God. And there's a purpose and I hope
11:45
it's the purpose for doing what I'm doing now, saving kids
11:48
lives. And I do a lot of talks.
11:50
We didn't really get into that, but I do a lot of talks at
11:53
colleges, at Second Chance programs, at the juvenile
11:57
centers and and I try to keep them off the street from doing
12:01
the I did. Yeah, so if they hear all the
12:05
crazy stories from your past, I think it's good to put that out
12:09
there so they can see what you did and they can see the full
12:12
transformation, you know what I mean?
12:14
Like going from where you came from and knowing you were a real
12:17
St. guy, a real gangster, you know what I mean?
12:19
And now where you're at now, it's just such a ultimate, you
12:22
know, You were, you came full circle essentially, you know
12:26
what I mean? Well, the biggest thing is we
12:28
lose our families, forget about anything else.
12:31
I didn't get to spend all those years with my daughter because I
12:33
was in jail and she away. So that guilt kills you forever.
12:38
Maybe if I was home, certain things wouldn't have happened in
12:40
a life. I hopefully that I'm around for
12:43
my grandson. So that never happens with him.
12:46
I got a son, you guys know, we talked early from prison.
12:49
He's going to be home soon. So I need to be there to get his
12:52
head right. My other friend, he lost his kid
12:55
that just got out of jail. He lost his kid while he was in
12:57
prison. So there is no for this life,
13:00
you know, it has nothing to do with us.
13:03
It's about our kids, our family to break these patterns of, you
13:07
know, there's so many St. tough guys in the in in all our
13:11
neighborhoods. But what does that mean?
13:14
What does that get them that they're tough?
13:16
You know, you want to get in the ring and make money.
13:18
I get it. To stay on the street and lose
13:20
your life and ruin your life for what?
13:22
To say you're tougher than another guy who gives a what
13:26
does that mean? You know, it's really when you
13:28
think about it, it's nonsense. So, you know, I can't take back
13:32
what I did and what I was involved with, but the only
13:35
thing you could do is use this as a message to help all the
13:37
kids so they don't follow this hopefully.
13:40
And, you know, listen, part of me getting through it and you
13:42
know, because they asked me like I joke about a lot, like we're
13:45
joking. It's not in it's not in bad
13:48
humor. It's a way to get through it and
13:50
it's reality of what happened. And we make fun a little bit,
13:54
but that's the way to get through talking about some of
13:56
this stuff. Yeah, because I mean, if people
13:59
hear the realness of the life that you lived, if you could get
14:03
through it and change your life, then it goes to show that
14:06
anybody could get through it, obviously, right.
14:08
You know, I mean, do it all the, you know, the life you lived,
14:11
you know, the craziness of your former life.
14:14
Telling those stories I think is important so people realize like
14:17
this is the level I was at as far as what I was doing in the
14:20
street. Now look at how where I came,
14:22
you know, look at where I'm at now, you know what I mean?
14:24
So I think it's important that you share all those stuff so
14:26
people can get a full vantage point of who you used to be.
14:32
Well, they don't see the part. Like, you know, people say,
14:34
well, you seem pretty normal. Yeah, in camera or in the street
14:37
when I'm laughing. But they don't see behind closed
14:40
doors. Nobody sees other people.
14:41
How many people kill themselves? Right.
14:43
Not that I want to kill myself. So I'll say that some people
14:46
understand, but there's a lot of people that kill themselves.
14:48
Like Robin was Robin Williams the comedian.
14:51
You would never know it. My friend Jason David Frank was
14:54
the Green Ranger. He was coming to see me and then
14:56
he killed himself a day or two before.
14:58
He kept saying I'll see you tomorrow and this week, blah,
15:00
blah. And out of nowhere, a friend of
15:01
mine, Brian, killed himself. So, you know, you got different
15:04
people. And I got other people I don't
15:06
even mention just recently that killed himself a good friend of
15:08
mine's brother. And you know, you, you look at
15:12
people so they only see the outskirts of you.
15:15
They don't see you when I'm in my room or I'm in my house and
15:18
you're crying because you lost your daughter.
15:20
They don't see you because you're crying because of the
15:22
guilt of what you did in your past.
15:25
Those are real things of, of being upset and depressed.
15:28
And people don't see that part of you, you know, because you're
15:32
not exposing them to you. And, you know, maybe my close
15:34
friends know it, my close family, you know, you talk to
15:38
all my sons. You know, somebody, you're
15:39
talking about it when someone's bothering me, like really
15:42
bothering me and pushing me to that edge.
15:44
Like, you know, years ago when they pushed you, like say there
15:47
was seven guys that pushed you. One of them is going to pay.
15:50
You're going to come home and say, OK, I'm going to take care
15:52
of one of these guys. It's going to relieve what
15:54
they're all doing. And you're going to you're going
15:56
to either butcher one guy or kill one.
15:58
You're not doing that anymore. So it was a relief mechanism, as
16:02
crazy as that sounds. And now you're eating it and
16:05
it's inside you. And I tell everybody to not with
16:09
just me, with other guys, don't poke somebody because you never
16:13
know what the on his mind. I said.
16:15
So you got a lot of people that poke people all the time.
16:17
Like you see legitimate people in the store, you poke them, you
16:20
keep robbing them. You you seen a store owner
16:23
recently killed the kid that came in there.
16:25
That guy is a regular hard working guy.
16:27
He didn't want to kill him, but you took him to a breaking point
16:29
where he stabbed the shed and killed you and people.
16:32
You know, it's always, you don't know where someone's life's at.
16:35
That's why in jail, it's very important that you learn guys in
16:39
prison, whoever goes to prison or maybe going to prison,
16:42
respect the next guy because you don't know if his wife just
16:46
cheated on you. You don't know if he lost his
16:48
mother. You don't know if he just went
16:50
broke financial. You don't know if he just got
16:52
sentenced and he got life. And if you disrespect that guy
16:56
in the smallest manner, I watch the guy get killed because he
16:59
was once stopped making noise in front of his cell and he didn't
17:02
listen. And the guy told me and he says
17:04
I'm going to kill this tomorrow. My friend said, you think he's
17:06
serious. I go 100%.
17:08
The next morning he woke up 6:00.
17:10
He shook my hand. He banged on my cell doors and
17:12
see you, John, love you. It was nice meeting you.
17:15
He went outside and he killed him and he killed the guy's
17:17
friend. So this is reality of you don't
17:21
know who you with. And when people say, oh, John
17:24
seems great, no, I'm not, I'm not going to be great after
17:27
everything I went through. The only thing is I'm honest
17:29
about it. You know, I tell people, listen,
17:31
don't think everything's rosy. I got a lot of, I got to deal
17:34
with day and night mentally and you know, and I got PTSD and I
17:38
talk a lot about it in the past with veterans and stuff that
17:41
have it because they know exactly what I'm talking about.
17:44
You can be good for a month and then you bad for two weeks.
17:47
You can be good for six months, you bad for a week straight.
17:50
And those are the realities of living the life.
17:52
So. You talk about you never know
17:54
what another man's capable of. There was a story about you had
17:59
a bar in Florida, correct? And there were police around and
18:02
the guy was messing with you, right?
18:04
Or was he being disrespectful? To you, I was in full Lord.
18:06
It wasn't my bar, but yeah, it was a guy.
18:08
Ernie owned the bar. It was in Pompano and I walked
18:11
in and Dawn was a girl that worked at Shooters.
18:15
She was a friend of mine and my friend Richie.
18:17
We're all still friends actually and Dawn I haven't seen, but
18:20
Richie, I'm still friends. When he played in Sopranos, he
18:22
played in Godfather or three. And anyway, I was with the kid
18:26
Timmy Donovan, who I don't talk in it to anymore.
18:28
He testified against me. He went to college with me.
18:30
He was there. One of my brother in law's were
18:32
there and this big steroid weightlifter was with three guys
18:36
at the bar and I was walked in with a suit and tie on.
18:40
Vinnie Corolla was there, Butch his was a wise guy.
18:43
His father was with John. He was sitting up, so he had a
18:48
bird's eye view of what was going on.
18:49
I didn't know he was there at the time.
18:51
And the guy grabbed my tie when I woke by and the girl, Dawn,
18:56
looked at me because she knows me, you know, she grew up with
18:59
me. She grew around with me.
19:00
She worked the shooters. She knows my other friend who
19:02
got killed and the drug. She knows all of us.
19:05
Another friend of mine, Louis E, gets killed.
19:07
She was going out with him prior to me.
19:09
And she goes, John and I go Dawn, just sit in the champagne
19:13
land. I had a dozen roses.
19:14
That's what made the guy do it, made fun of me.
19:17
And he was with a young girl. It was his sister.
19:19
I didn't know who it was at the time and she was Shawn.
19:23
I go, don't worry. I went back over to a medical
19:25
buddy. Whoever touched me again, I said
19:27
I'll kill you. And he ha, and he took his
19:30
hands. He was big guy.
19:31
He put his hands. He took my old face and mushed
19:35
my face and says, I warned you, didn't I?
19:37
So now I go to the bartender, go give me a knife and he gives me
19:40
a little lemon knife. I go, no, no, no, no.
19:41
I want the big knife. He's just you got to go in the
19:43
kitchen. So I go in the kitchen.
19:45
I said they all know me. They all want to know is Mary
19:46
right? And I get a butcher knife and
19:49
the police work the front door. So I know police work the front
19:52
in uniform. And I walk over to him.
19:55
I got the knife behind me. Then I warn you, he goes get the
19:58
Patty and I just put the knife through his neck.
20:00
And then I stabbed him in the stomach.
20:02
Then his friend came towards me on a just an automatic reflex
20:05
and I stabbed his front a little bit.
20:07
I didn't get him good. I had blood all over me.
20:10
The cup was there and he's like, put the knife down.
20:12
But you know, when you're adrenaline, you don't hear it,
20:14
the music. I don't know how he didn't shoot
20:16
me. He doesn't shoot me.
20:18
They locked me up on the spot for attempted murder.
20:21
And now I'm on the pay phone in the jail.
20:23
The old jail knows already that I'm there, so as soon as I get
20:26
there, I change the channel. I want to watch the fights.
20:28
They're watching basketball. One of the guys says something
20:32
and he goes, no, those guys get for murder, you know?
20:36
So it's county jail. So it's not like you know.
20:40
So you just walked in, You're like this?
20:42
I just stabbed somebody up. I'm trying.
20:45
I'm full of blood. I didn't have to say anything.
20:47
I mean, I'm soaked with blood. I watch the.
20:49
Fights. Yeah, I just changed it.
20:53
Now I'm talking back and forth. And my lawyer's Richie Raybach,
20:56
who was John Gotti's lawyer, the father's lawyer who gives me
21:00
him. And the kid has several
21:03
operations and he's going to live.
21:05
His friend finds out because the lawyer says to Richie Raybach,
21:10
yo, Gotti's lawyer, right. He goes, yeah, he's.
21:12
And this kid, he just, yeah, he works for Gotti.
21:15
And he goes, oh OK, I'm going to tell my client.
21:18
So the one kid backs out right away and he signs something
21:21
saying that they came after me first.
21:24
And then I go to court a couple times only.
21:26
And then the other guy backs out too, and.
21:29
How? How often did that happen?
21:31
Because you know you're not 6-8. You know what I mean?
21:35
You just hit it on the head. The guy that I did that too just
21:38
knuckled the kid. He was had a case pending.
21:40
So he was a bully guy. The guy was huge, I mean is huge
21:44
and then is huge. This guy was reuted huge, 356
21:48
foot 4-5, just a steroid animal. So what are you going to do to
21:53
the guy? I mean, you know, listen, you
21:55
could be a box all you want. He's just there's nothing you're
21:57
going to do with this guy. The only way you're going to
21:59
handle a guy is just what I did. I said so you know, afterwards I
22:03
said to everybody asked me, do you really regret that?
22:05
No, I don't regret it. He got what he deserved.
22:07
He just heard another guy. So you're a jealous little the
22:10
insecure punk. You got exactly what you
22:12
deserve. You're lucky you didn't die.
22:14
You know, as much as I know it's wrong, I don't really regret
22:17
those things. I know I should say I do, but I
22:20
don't because I guarantee that guy will never do that again to
22:22
somebody else. Not hurting other people.
22:24
Yeah, I mean you, when you're looking for it, you're going to
22:26
find it. He was looking for.
22:27
It and he definitely picked the wrong.
22:29
Yeah, and well, The thing is, I tell people you're not going to
22:32
you're you're like me. You're a small guy.
22:34
You're not going to intimidate anybody by talking to him.
22:37
The only thing they understand, we're a smaller guy.
22:40
Like a lot of time you hear guys say, oh, he's insecure, he's got
22:42
Mussolini. No, no, no, it's a guy 6 foot
22:45
five. You're already afraid of him
22:47
because he might not be able to fight a lick, but you're afraid
22:51
of him because he's big. But on a smaller guy, and you
22:53
don't know until you do something, you perform, then
22:56
they'll know. So that's the problem.
22:57
Because just with the fight I just had in the city, the guy
23:01
opened my door. What are you supposed to do?
23:03
I didn't want to fight the guy. Actually.
23:04
I kept telling him get the away and he kept consistent.
23:07
So eventually you got to get out of the car and hurt him.
23:09
It's the only way he's going to understand absolutely, you know,
23:12
so. How often did that happen
23:14
though? Like throughout your especially
23:16
like when you were like deep within your former life were
23:18
like when you were with the mob, Like how often did that happen
23:21
to you? Like or some say some giant guy.
23:24
That had no clue who the hell. Had no idea who was.
23:26
Obviously people know who you were.
23:28
Someone be like, hey, just you'd be.
23:30
You're stupid. We're in Fort Lauderdale.
23:32
My friend Joey Mathis, regular guy.
23:34
He's dead now, but we were walking with three girls and
23:37
back then it was Fort Lauderdale was the, you know, everybody
23:39
who'd go on spring break and we're drinking, another big
23:42
muscle guy, and he's walking with a couple of friends, I
23:45
don't know, two friends, three friends, four friends, whatever.
23:47
And the girl, we're walking this way, he's walking this way, and
23:50
he slaps her ass. So Joey says something.
23:52
Joey's a fighter. He used to fight all the time.
23:55
Win or lose, he'd fight. He was crazy.
23:57
Regular guy. He's not a gangster.
23:58
You know, the smart guy. Went to Baruch got accounting
24:03
degree and the guy gets in his face and Joey's like my brother
24:07
and I woke up to the guy. I says keep walking before you
24:10
get hurt and you know he ain't taking me serious.
24:12
I hit him with a right left welcome.
24:14
I split him bad. I just caught him right.
24:17
He went down. There was a cop standing right
24:19
there. The cop was smiling.
24:20
He was like wow. And then the guy get up and he's
24:23
like going crazy screaming and his friends didn't jump in and
24:26
they didn't do anything. And the cop said to him, you
24:28
want more go huh. You're like, he was going to let
24:30
us fight and the guy just talked.
24:33
I go, come on. I said, you'll finish it, will
24:34
you? And he didn't want to fight
24:35
anyway. Right after I finished that,
24:39
right next door is the place we're going to go.
24:40
And there's a big guy, fat but fat but big.
24:44
And he goes, you want to try that with me?
24:46
I'm like, what's wrong with this guy?
24:48
So I kind of laughed it off. I go, I don't want to try.
24:51
I just want to drink. You know, I didn't bite into
24:53
that. But like, why would you even say
24:55
that? Like there's something wrong
24:56
with these guys. Like, you know, I don't get why
24:59
they do it. Like, you know, maybe he would
25:01
kick my, who knows? But the point is why you can say
25:03
that. I don't understand.
25:05
And it happens a lot, which is unfortunate.
25:07
And the problem is I think there's so many people now that
25:11
don't think that that's going to happen.
25:13
So they think they can just run the mouth and it's just all, you
25:16
know, gum flap until they get smacked in the face.
25:19
They have no idea about fighting.
25:20
And then they're like, oh, what was going on, You know, because
25:23
they were able to get away with it for so.
25:25
Long I was in Floridopolis in Brazil, and I just told this
25:28
story and I was with, I didn't know her.
25:31
It was one of the Gracie's daughters and a guy balled at
25:34
her. So I went to jump in and she
25:36
said no, I have it. She goes, don't worry, I have
25:38
it. And I started talking.
25:39
I go, I know your father blah, blah, blah blah.
25:41
Your uncle and I didn't know that she could fight.
25:44
And this guy was jacked. He wasn't like she took him
25:47
down. She was wearing a skirt.
25:48
She leg locked his neck and was choking him out and he was
25:53
begging, begging. And all the bouncers came over.
25:55
They knew her and then they threw them out.
25:58
They were beating them up a little bit and I was like, I was
26:00
laughing. I'm like, well, now that guy
26:02
just ran into the wrong girl. Forget about guy.
26:05
But that's a Gracie daughter, so she knew how to fight.
26:08
Her legs were like forget and beautiful girl.
26:10
She wasn't like, you know, really pretty girl.
26:13
But you know, sometimes you run into the wrong guy and a lot of
26:16
guys get killed like that. You know, people get killed.
26:18
You open your mouth and you say the wrong thing to the wrong guy
26:22
and you know you got the wrong guy.
26:23
He just kills you and that happens all the time.
26:26
Absolutely. Yeah.
26:27
Did you find a lot of guys testing you like in the mob
26:30
world? Did you like just because of
26:32
your, I mean, you, you were people don't know John is always
26:35
strong in shape, has been fighting his whole life.
26:38
He's not a small guy, you know what I'm saying?
26:40
But there's guys that are out there that are like 6566400
26:44
pounds, you know what I mean? Like in the in the, you know.
26:47
You know what, you you, it's the street guys and the tough guys
26:50
never act like that. Anybody you meet on the street.
26:52
Like I was in Virginia a couple of years ago when I ran into a
26:55
guy who's with his girl. I was with somebody and he was
26:58
sitting at the table and he took my seat.
27:00
So I said, excuse me. I said that was mine.
27:02
He got up and I says I looked at him and I I laughed and I said,
27:06
you must have been down. He goes, yeah, I was away for a
27:08
while. We started talking, nicest guy
27:10
in the world. And I said, you know, I know
27:12
you're a tough. And he said sort of left.
27:15
He goes, well, I said just by the way you act, he just gave me
27:17
to see it like it was not. Now he's just like a gentleman.
27:19
Not because you're intimidated. I asked for it because I asked
27:22
in a nice way, but you can tell. But back to your question, mob
27:26
guys, for the most part, if they're street, street guys,
27:30
they're all respect for each other, kind of like jail.
27:32
The streety guys in jail are always John, I'm always nice
27:35
away. What's up buddy, good morning.
27:37
How you doing? They don't put their towels on
27:39
the on a bench and say I got the bench because they know this is
27:42
a fight. You're not going to go eat and
27:44
leave the bench. And this is what I don't know.
27:45
If you know in jail, they put a towel and they'd say it's
27:48
theirs. And unless you're a jerk or if
27:50
you're not going to leave that towel that you're going to start
27:51
working out. When the guy comes back, he says
27:53
I had the bench. What do you mean?
27:55
You have the bench? You're what you're eating.
27:56
I'm working on the bench. So these are dumb things that
27:59
they do in jail, causes fights. Now, if he's a tough guy, you
28:02
know what he'll say, all right, man, just when you're done, just
28:05
let me know so I can grab it now, you know, because he's not
28:07
insecure about it. He knows how it goes.
28:09
We're all in prison trying to get the workout in and go.
28:12
So, you know, but if you're an idiot, you're going to try to
28:14
hold the bench while everybody's disrespect to hold jail.
28:17
And certain guys let guys get away with it because they think
28:19
they're either wild guys or they don't want the problem.
28:21
They were in there too long. So but you know, when you're
28:24
down in a place for a while, it doesn't happen because everybody
28:26
knows you. But to answer again, you most
28:29
guys that are in the street, it's not where the problem is
28:32
because they're in the street that we all know each other.
28:35
It's usually the outsiders that don't know they're too stupid
28:38
when you're going to club. I was in a club and and again, I
28:41
was in a club and I'm sitting and I just got out of jail
28:44
actually at the time and always what about four or five guys?
28:47
And I'm sitting here standing at the bar and the guy is pushing
28:50
me and pushing me and moving me and I just keep moving, moving.
28:53
And finally I said, so you're going to leave me any kind of
28:55
space in there? He said something stupid.
28:57
So I don't want to Troy just got out of jail.
28:59
My friend said, oh, wait till he goes into the my friend's a big
29:01
guy, fitness guy, you know, and a fighter, not a gangster, but a
29:06
fighter. He says, I'm going to not let it
29:08
go. And he goes, I'm going to let it
29:10
go. Don't worry about it.
29:11
Forget it. And so I'm sitting there, but he
29:13
didn't listen to me. The guy went in the bathroom
29:15
shows the guy went in the bathroom.
29:16
He says, oh, and he just jacked them up and he, you know, he
29:18
beat the guy bad. And I go, I go, Joe, why'd you
29:21
do that? He goes, you know, because you
29:23
know, he's another guy likes to fight, but he is a fighter and
29:27
but a nice guy doesn't do that. It's only insecure punk guys
29:31
that do that. And he did it because I was
29:33
small. He ain't going to do it to a big
29:35
guy. And you know, so there's another
29:38
friend of mine, Benny Jarintao, who was in prison.
29:40
He's known to be very dangerous. He was with me years ago in a
29:43
club, same thing. Something like that happened and
29:45
he was dangerous and he had a knife.
29:47
He was young. Then he goes, John, I'll stab at
29:50
him for you. I go no, no, no, no.
29:52
So guys don't know who they what, They don't realize who we
29:55
are. You know, that that were guys
29:57
that are actually killing guys, stabbing guys, shooting guys.
30:00
They're too stupid. So you got to take that also in
30:03
consideration. They're too dumb to know, you
30:06
know, who they're dealing with. And, you know, you got to be a
30:09
little level at it. When I was younger, I was a
30:11
little crazy. So, you know, I, I didn't put up
30:13
with that. I was right away.
30:15
And that's a lot too insecure because you want to prove
30:17
something. And as you get older, you learn
30:19
to man, let it go. It doesn't mean nothing, you
30:21
know. When you were, when you were
30:23
active in your former life, did you know that people were
30:26
intimidated by you? Did you, like Hootie and Gene,
30:28
have both told us stories? Like you were feared by
30:30
everybody? Like did you know?
30:32
That Yeah. Yeah.
30:32
No, I know. Yeah, yeah.
30:33
But like back then though, when you were.
30:35
Yeah, Once I started hurting a lot of guys, everybody was
30:38
afraid. As soon as I walked in
30:39
somewhere, everybody knew. So you knew you knew?
30:41
Yeah, I know. It wasn't like there were people
30:43
just whispering, like you knew that people were afraid.
30:45
No, I was hurting guys. I was shooting guys, I was
30:47
beating guys with my hands. I was fighting all the time with
30:50
my hands. What?
30:51
Knives? What what bats.
30:53
I was getting hurt. I'd get back up.
30:55
But, you know, so, you know, I had 100 and some stitches in my
30:58
chest when I, you know, I went after a guy.
31:00
I batted a guy when I was stitched up myself.
31:03
So when you're doing crazy, then I in the back of the hospital,
31:06
you know, people. Yeah.
31:07
You know, I started to get my friends were really wild.
31:10
I said I was at least wild, that when I was young I'd get more
31:13
wild than anybody later on. But then I had a reputation.
31:17
Everybody called me, you know, I had nicknames to share of
31:20
Arnold. They called Speedy.
31:22
They just called me a million names.
31:23
Spanky. They'd call me Jesse.
31:26
Another guy called me Jesse because of all the shooting.
31:28
Jesse Burke. Jesse James.
31:32
Oh, it's just names that a gothic gunfighter.
31:34
So they nicknamed me Dad. They named me a lot of things
31:37
from all the violence. Now, when you went out,
31:40
obviously you knew that you had that presence.
31:41
You have an aura, you know, even just meeting you, you have a
31:44
carry a good presence about yourself.
31:45
You know, like a gentleman who's a man when you would just go
31:48
out, you know, back then where people, it was almost like a
31:52
parting of the sea when you would walk through, you know,
31:54
like and like people just kind of one, stayed away because one,
31:56
they didn't want to get their speed if they said something
31:58
wrong to you or two, just because.
32:01
Yeah, And they don't know your personality.
32:02
They hear things like you're off the chain, like, you know, they
32:05
think, you know, they used to tell me it's heckling because
32:07
the truth was I was very nice until you did something wrong.
32:10
And I wouldn't give a warning. I would just do something.
32:12
So I was like, it's on you. If you want to disrespect me
32:15
being nice, then that's on you. But the other problem was, I
32:19
understood, I said this earlier, when you get a reputation like
32:23
that, no one's just going to hit you no more.
32:25
Now you know they're going to kill you or they're going to try
32:27
to kill you. So when they come to fight you,
32:29
it's not to fight you. It's come to shoot you, stab you
32:31
up. It's to kill you.
32:33
And when you start getting to that level, you understand that
32:37
you got to be very serious. Away you go.
32:38
Like I didn't around, I didn't like going, I didn't fool
32:41
around. And when I used to go like we
32:43
could go to turquoise, we go to Club Med, I'd let my hair down
32:47
and really have a good time. But in realm, my friends used to
32:50
say, yo, you never act like this because I always had a serious
32:53
presence because I didn't want people to think I was a joke.
32:56
So I had to keep myself constantly on serious edge
32:59
because if you get caught short, that's when you die.
33:02
And when I first came home, I almost got caught short because
33:05
I was drunk and I was thinking different and I just didn't run
33:08
into serious guys. Serious guys are supposed to
33:10
kill me. But you know, it happens.
33:13
It's part of the life. Like people say to me, listen to
33:15
all of us. If you're on the street,
33:17
seriously on the street, you're going to get shot, you're going
33:20
to get stabbed, you're going to have many attempts on your life
33:23
unless you're just picking your shots and you're a fraud.
33:26
If you're a fraud, you can get away with it until somebody
33:28
pulls your card one day. But if you really get in the mix
33:32
of things, you're going to get caught short because you're not
33:34
going to walk away. When it's 10 guys, you're going
33:35
to fight. When it's three guys, you're
33:37
going to fight. When there's one guy, you're
33:38
going to fight, but you're going to fight.
33:40
And the same thing in prison. You're going to fight no matter
33:42
what. And I had a guy, Yancey, that
33:44
just black guy that was in prison with me.
33:46
He was on my podcast. He was talking about me jumping
33:48
in a fight and it was and he's black and he was with me and it
33:52
was 7 or 8 black guys that jumped an Italian guy that I
33:56
didn't really stay with and I jumped in for him.
33:58
And one of the guys that was fighting was a black guy
34:01
Mohammed, that was a good friend of mine.
34:02
But afterwards he was John, why would you jump in against me?
34:06
I go, why would you jump a guy in 80s?
34:08
I go, I don't give AI said I'm not really particularly great
34:11
friends with the guy, but I ain't going to allow that.
34:14
And then you know, and he was a big tough guy and it carried
34:18
into something was serious with knives and it didn't go to that
34:21
level. But in jail it can't any 2nd and
34:23
it didn't. But you know, people ask me like
34:26
you know, and yet and they all got mad at Yancey and because he
34:29
was black and he's standing with me, I'm like this ain't got
34:32
nothing to do about color. I go I will not let anybody do
34:35
that. I said don't be a cowards.
34:37
Fight the guy what he's got to jump him for so.
34:41
Gene told us a story when he was on the street and he was going
34:44
wild. He said that Vinniasaro, or I
34:48
believe it was Vinniasaro, I told him, you know, you got to
34:51
slow down or Ronnie G told him you got to slow down because
34:54
he's doing too much crazy, beating people up, he's shooting
34:56
all that kind of stuff. Did you ever have anybody come
34:59
to you in the Gambino fame and say, John, you got to slow down
35:02
now you're doing too much violence or doing.
35:04
Oh, John's father's got he the used to the father used to yell
35:08
me all the time. Really it's.
35:10
Constantly give. It can you think, give us, just
35:12
give us. Just to threaten me all the
35:13
time. Yeah, We had different times.
35:16
I told the story when we had Konos, when he threatened me,
35:18
had Konos in front of everybody. And then he slapped me and he
35:21
chased everybody Wayne. Then he talked to me after we
35:23
stood and drinked together in mass pit and he told her he
35:28
goes, I was pouting. And basically he said stumping,
35:31
stop pouting. He says, you know, I had to do
35:33
that because it was a friend of but he used to tell me because
35:36
I'm shooting guys left and right and you know, they want you
35:38
under control. But on the other hand, I know
35:40
John liked that because he was that way.
35:43
So he liked that I was wild and nutty, although he wants me to
35:49
be his wild and nutty. He's controlling me.
35:51
But at the same time, if he didn't feel like I would, all
35:56
the craziness I did, all the shooting I did, I went to kick
35:58
'cause I shot 4 guys in one city.
36:01
If he didn't like me, trust me, the next day he's going to tell
36:04
somebody, tell him to come to the club and get rid of him.
36:06
And you know, it's not like it's a hard thing to do.
36:08
You're on his lap every day. Just take the kid, kill him.
36:11
I had enough of him. But, you know, so when people
36:14
say that you'd be dead, you're not going to hurt all these guys
36:17
I hurt and shoot all these guys a shot unless he's OK with it,
36:20
yeah. You know, so, so you're building
36:23
St. cred by doing these acts though, right?
36:26
You're building credibility within the family, you know.
36:29
Well, a lot of it's for him. I mean, they're telling me to
36:31
hurt a lot of these guys, not all just for me.
36:33
I mean, some of it's for me. But you know, 3/4 of it's
36:36
actually for him, for the family.
36:38
You know, I'm getting told constantly, go hurt this guy,
36:40
shoot this guy, stabbed this guy, baseball bat that guy.
36:43
Go shake this guy down. You know you.
36:44
This is your job. This is all you're doing, day
36:46
and night. So how can he yell at you about
36:49
it? Then, well, these are these are
36:50
the ones like I did in the nightclub where I stabbed the
36:52
guy in the throat. But he called me in on that.
36:55
Actually he was steaming and I said to him, John, what do you
36:58
want me to do? I go away.
37:00
But now Vinny Butch went and told him that had happened.
37:04
So I said to him, when Vinny was there, why didn't he help me?
37:06
I had to stab the guy, you know, size for him.
37:09
And then he thought about it and he smiled and he goes.
37:12
But on the other hand, he likes it too, because I'm his guy and
37:14
everybody gets a reputation. His guys look how dangerous they
37:18
are. So it works two ways.
37:20
As much as he doesn't want you to do it, it also works well.
37:24
Would you say you were like his main enforcer?
37:27
Yeah, You know what I told guys he had shooters, right?
37:30
He had a lot of older guy shooters, but he didn't have
37:32
guys to do what I was doing. That means put a bat in the
37:35
hand, a knife in your hand to go hurt guys on the street, go to a
37:39
union job site and go baseball bat somebody.
37:41
These guys are all older guys. The only thing they're going to
37:43
do is, and I've said this on shows about guys I sent when
37:48
sons don't send me no young guys.
37:50
You disrespecting me, you better worry about the young guys.
37:52
That's who's going to kill you and shoot you.
37:54
The old guys are just there to talk.
37:56
So John had guys shooters, but he didn't have guys to go out on
37:59
the street and do what I was doing to go out.
38:01
And you know, and I ask everybody if they challenge
38:03
that, yeah, tell me who who you know if you ask them, but give
38:06
me some names. Who's the guys that were
38:08
baseball batting guys and stabbing guys and go out and and
38:10
punching the guys in the mouth and doing that because the older
38:13
guys can't do that. Then you can only squeeze the
38:15
trigger. Can you, this is kind of a weird
38:18
question, but can you phrase it how John would actually ask you
38:21
to go baseball bat somebody like do you remember like the
38:24
interaction? I'm just curious like how he
38:25
goes about approaching to do that and then how you go about
38:29
doing it? Well, yeah, I used Patty.
38:31
Catalano's was a big he's involved with the pizza
38:34
connection, big heroin mover and his son was gambling with us and
38:39
he wasn't paying. So I went to see John's a good
38:44
example and he with John was trying to get money off of Patty
38:47
and he wasn't working with them or whatever was going on and he
38:50
didn't he had a hard feelings for him.
38:52
I didn't know that at first until I bring back the message.
38:54
Patty's son won't pay and he goes what?
38:57
And I tell his brother's brother thanks him and he tells me take
39:00
a walk. What am I going for a walk with
39:01
him and he goes where is he? He says I got him in the PM.
39:06
He was a party. We had the Irani want him.
39:08
I said I got him tied up in a chair and he laughs.
39:11
So he goes, what are you doing? I said I poured lighter fluid on
39:13
him and tell him everything I did while we're walking and he's
39:16
laughing. He goes all right, butchered
39:17
his. I said, all right.
39:19
So now I go back and I told Ronnie, get out of here.
39:22
Let me just take care of this guy.
39:24
And then I take a pull stick. I put it across on my slut Pete.
39:27
I'm I'm butchering. I'm like he said he just don't
39:29
kill him. So he wants now he wants to fall
39:34
though, to know what happened. So if all is going to come to
39:36
him and then he can squeeze him. So that's, you know, one
39:40
occasion, another guy he had like a drug business was moving
39:43
with another family and he said the same thing.
39:46
Don't kill the guy. And he was what a made guy.
39:48
He says, tell the guy get lost. If he gets in your way, you
39:50
could kill him. The made guy.
39:53
And which I was surprised he said, he said, he says, why you
39:56
don't I, the other kid, he says, don't kill him.
39:58
He says just hurt him. So these are the, you know,
40:01
you're getting these on a, you know, daily basis.
40:03
He sent me to construction sites.
40:05
Sent me and Bobby Boriello to a site and it's framed out the
40:08
building and the guy's up on whatever floor, say to 30 to
40:11
outside elevator. We're both afraid of heights.
40:14
So we go over there. The guy's at the end of the he's
40:17
at the end of the you know, yeah where he is and I go come here
40:22
and he he knows something's up he's like no, come here.
40:26
And I told Bobby there's no way I'm going up there.
40:28
Bobby goes me the ball. So we go back downstairs, the
40:32
right would not come down. We waited till like 7:00 at
40:36
night. I go, Bobby, he goes, come on,
40:37
we'll just come back. And all the time, you know, so
40:40
different that, you know, we went to Gallagher strip club and
40:43
we there we hurt one of the balances.
40:45
He was trying to shake down the guy.
40:47
Actually the guy it was he went his lawyer actually tipped us
40:51
that the guy went to the feds and they was wearing a wire.
40:54
So that was another one. I mean, there's a million.
40:56
This is day and night. Is there any that you?
40:59
Is there any one big instance that stands out of your mind
41:03
above all else that you haven't talked about?
41:07
Just like a a big instance, an act you did as John, you know,
41:12
one of John Guy's main enforcers, Just like a big
41:18
mission that you had to accomplish for him that stands
41:20
out of your mind that you haven't discussed.
41:22
I mean, is it? There's a couple, but there's a
41:24
guy from Brooklyn that was around the Wild Bill and yeah,
41:29
actually I'm friends with Wild Bill Sunstone and Bill had a
41:32
reputation and Columbo guy and killer and the Senate.
41:37
And they had a problem with the kid guy and he told me I don't
41:42
care, find this guy and hurt him.
41:44
So we were looking for him for a while and finally I found him
41:47
and we basically the same thing. This was a batting.
41:50
This wasn't to kill him. It's just a baseball bat him
41:53
because they wanted. So after I had baseball bat him,
41:56
they send me to a sit down and the guy comes be God, he's with
41:59
me. His brother John doesn't come.
42:01
Pete's with me. Bobby Bori always with.
42:04
And this is, you know, this is not what people think.
42:06
These are staged. So when you're sitting down, he
42:10
said no matter what they say, threaten to kill the guy at the
42:14
table. They want me to threaten the
42:17
guy, the guy I batted. John wants you.
42:19
To yeah, threaten him. Yeah, purposely so.
42:21
He told you. That yeah, he told him he
42:23
threatened him and he's not at the sit down.
42:24
But Bobby Bori, then they want me to threaten him because he's
42:28
challenging what they're going to do.
42:31
So in the middle of talking I go, I was going to talk about
42:33
I'll kill him tomorrow. He says I don't need because
42:36
they he was trying to playoff like his guy was tough guy too.
42:39
So and then they went back and forth and then Bobby supposed to
42:43
step in, which he did and threaten that we'll leave this
42:46
guy everywhere. But well, and then what he's
42:49
trying to accomplish is this. He's trying to make it go to a
42:52
higher level to him, to John. John wants to handle it.
42:56
Like he's. So you you got to go to levels.
42:58
If the sit down doesn't get accomplished there, they got to
43:00
go. So he's trying to make it.
43:02
He's trying to bring it upstairs for whatever reason.
43:05
I don't I'm not Privy to that reason, what he's looking to do.
43:08
So there was another incident was another one with Benny
43:11
Restivo over Bobby Boreal's daughter that I didn't really
43:15
talk too much about. 2:30 ones. The guy grabbed the rest and I
43:19
put a bottle over Chubby. I was with another friend of
43:22
mine, Mark, and we went to work on this guy, Chubby's The Sun.
43:28
I put a champagne bottle and the fight broke out and then Bobby
43:30
ends up showing up Chubby's. I don't know if Chubby was
43:33
straightened out at the time, I think he was, but the 230 ones
43:37
was with the Mukasey people. So that was another incident
43:40
that we were supposed to instigate even further after
43:42
that. You know, there's and there's
43:43
reasons behind that, money reasons that are going on or
43:46
whatever John's trying to accomplish.
43:47
And that wasn't a plant thing. It just happened and then he
43:50
utilized it for whatever he had going on.
43:53
Yeah, I mean, at that time the Gambino family was the top of
43:57
the mafia world. Is that correct?
43:59
I mean, you have different set. You're like I'm I was very
44:01
friendly with the Lucchesi people my whole life also so and
44:05
a lot of these guys like Jimmy Burke and you know, I was very
44:08
friendly with his son Frankie before he gets killed.
44:11
So you know what, me and Frankie were always together.
44:13
So you know, it's a hard, you know, it's not like people
44:16
think, you know, we're all friends and the money cut is
44:19
tries to be worked out together. But then there's also internal
44:21
fighting for whatever reason is going on.
44:24
Like anything else. It's like fitting your own
44:25
families. We have trouble with our own
44:27
family and whatever. And there's fights with your own
44:29
cousin. Same thing because I stay with a
44:32
lot of Lucchesi guys. But the dangerous part is when
44:35
you have serious incidents, if you stay with them, they walk
44:37
in. And you know, when John used to
44:39
tell me all the time, stop staying with all these guys.
44:42
You're too accessible. Somebody's going to kill you.
44:44
You know, when you're young, you don't realize it either.
44:47
You know, you, you start to get schooled as you're going and
44:49
you're learning more and more. And then you got an instinct for
44:52
the street which keeps you alive, you know, not to go to
44:56
certain meetings. And I had one of my cousins,
44:58
Billy Caso, ends up ratting on me and owed me a ton of money.
45:01
He started staying with the West Side Genovese family.
45:04
And I kept telling him because he got high a lot.
45:06
He had a big mouth. And he started working with them
45:10
on the snake behind me. And I, I warned them, but don't
45:13
go near them again because even unintentionally he'll say
45:16
something to them where they could snake me and kill me.
45:19
And I had some things going on at the time, what unions and
45:21
stuff. I hurt one of the union guys,
45:23
one of the bosses. So he didn't listen.
45:26
And I put a bottle across. My cousin said actually I was
45:29
going to put a butcher knife through him and a block party.
45:33
And my daughter happened to woke up when I was going to do it.
45:35
That's my cousin and but that life you want and I warned them
45:41
you're around me, you're not around anybody else.
45:43
Don't go near them. And he started shifting money to
45:45
them. Big money, not money.
45:47
He's moving a thousand 2000 lbs every week or two and in weed
45:51
and he was kicking them the money, not knowing I'm involved
45:55
with them in business. So and I warned them they'll go
45:57
near them. He went near them.
45:58
He did a lot of coke and I had a Spanish guy that came to me,
46:03
told me your cousin just did business one and he didn't know.
46:05
So I had the Spanish guy come to the to the block party.
46:08
I brought him down the alley and just lucky my daughter ran up
46:12
what that butcher knife was going through.
46:15
And when instead I put a bottle over his head and he took off
46:18
and that was it. And then after that, later on he
46:20
testifies against me and his partner was Chris Castellano.
46:24
That was around the Genovese family.
46:25
They end up killing him when he gets a bail on a drug case.
46:28
So it was really their own fault.
46:30
I warned them don't be involved with these two guys.
46:32
They're going to run. But that's the life, you know,
46:36
Everybody's expendable. Were you ever worried that you
46:39
pissed John off and that he might come after you?
46:43
Yeah, you were he baby. You had a special bottle of them
46:46
being, you know. I never thought he would
46:48
actually do anything like John. Listen this He had a good.
46:52
It's crazy to say because people don't understand.
46:54
He had a good heart. If he didn't have a good heart,
46:56
I would have been hurt so many times.
46:57
He threatened to hurt me a million times, but you know, he
47:00
never did it. And if and if, if he was that
47:03
vicious guy like a Nicki Scarfo, he would kill Gene when I know
47:07
moral things about killing you. He wasn't that guy actually, you
47:11
know, he so he he yelled a lot, he talked a lot, but he didn't
47:15
kill actually Paul Castellano, I said it killed a lot more than
47:18
he killed. So with John, if John, if you
47:21
were with John, like he said, his inner circle, which I was,
47:24
he was loyal to you, you know, he wasn't.
47:27
And he and he wanted you to make money.
47:29
He wasn't, he wasn't that guy. And he knew, you know, people
47:31
say, Oh yeah, you didn't. I'm not selling all these drugs.
47:34
And the guy didn't know I was selling them.
47:35
I'm doing it for him. You know, they're all getting
47:38
money. They're making me move heroin.
47:39
I don't know nothing about the heroin business, you know, so,
47:42
But yeah, this is all part of it.
47:45
You know, the facade and of of what we do.
47:48
Yeah, nobody deals drugs, but everybody deals drugs.
47:51
Yeah, I was going to say, I thought that was a death
47:52
sentence in the in the man there.
47:55
Well, money's money at the end of the day.
47:56
There's a, there's a bunch of by rules that no one follows any
47:59
rule. Yeah, that's the rules.
48:01
The rules are there just from when he wants to enforce it to
48:04
who he wants to enforce it.