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The Long Game · Everyone Has An Ex

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mother mea podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: the traditional owners of the land and waters. This podcast
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: is recorded on There are many great loves women can
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: find in their lives. Best friends, sisters, the one, the
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: one who got away, and of course the gay best friend.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: I was obsessed with him in every way. I was
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: getting everything I ever wanted from a relationship, even financially.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: He was paying for our rent and all of our
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: bills and everything. Anything I wanted I could ask him
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: and he would help me. It was honestly the perfect relationship,
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: except we weren't having sex.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: It really is a love like no other. And because
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: it's a friendship, deep and fulfilling, but tonic, it doesn't
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: have the same pressures as a romantic relationship. Nowhing can
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: ever come between you or change what you have.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: One day, when he was at work, I received an
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: email and it came from a lawyer. Once I received
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: the contract, I realized in that moment that my life
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: was never going to be the same again.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: I'm Georgia Love and this is everyone has an ex
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Come with me as we dive into a collection of
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: unconventional stories about relationships past through the eyes and the
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: hearts of the very people who live them. Meet Lauren
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: at eighteen. Like many a Kiwi before her, Lauren moved
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: from the land of the Big White Cloud to the
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: land down Under and there she found a whole new
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: vibe tribe. To kick off her adult life.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: Moved to Sydney from Dunedin, New Zealand, fresh out of
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: high school. I'd moved in with my sister who had
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: been living in Sydney for a few years. And my
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: sister was really involved in the LGBTQ community in Sydney. Yeah,
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: she had a girlfriend and I moved in with them
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: and decided to you know, find a little admund job.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: And my sister was really my social life back then.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: I was really involved with my sister's friends. You know,
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: she had a lot of gay friends, a lot of
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: lesbian friends, and yeah, we had a great, big group
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: of friends and we had a lot of parties at
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: our house. Yeah, and that's how I met Jason.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: Okay, so the love interest in this story is called Jason.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: He was really muscular. He was a bit older than
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: our friendship group as well. He was quite chiseled and
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: had facial hair like he was older than me. I
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: was eighteen and he was thirty one, and he kind
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: of stood out to me, and he was good looking,
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: like he was a really handsome guy. He was quite
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: affectionate with me straight away, which I enjoyed, and for
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: him to give me attention in a way that I
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: hadn't really had before I was only eighteen. You know,
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: he was interested in me in like wanting to get
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: to know me, and he wanted to buy me a drink,
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: he wanted to dance with me, and yeah, I'd never
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: really experienced that before. It was all very new, and
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: I liked the attention to be honest, and he was
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: more masculine than my friends were, So I was drawn
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: to him for that reason, especially because I'm straight and
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: I thought he was a straight man like in our
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: friendship group. But when I got to talking to him,
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: I found out that he actually was gay.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: Ah, right, maybe I jumped the gun there.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: As he were, he just became someone in our friendship group.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: Like in our community, we had people of all sorts,
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: of different backgrounds, different ages, so it wasn't unusual for
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: us to hang out with like an older gay person
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: because you know, like in Sydney, the community is really
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: tight and it's quite small actually, so everyone kind of
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: knows everyone and everyone does socialize together. Yeah, So that's
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: how we first met. And actually that first night, we
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: went out clubbing, like on Oxford Street, and we were
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: quite drawn to each other. And I don't necessarily know why,
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: but he took a liking to me, like he was
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: quite affectionate, quite off the bat, like in terms of,
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: you know, holding hands and putting his arm around me,
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: you know, just like dancing in the nightclub and stuff.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: He was just another one of our gay friends, you know,
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: at the party, and he had a boyfriend. So I
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: wasn't interested in him like that at all. We actually
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: clicked from that first night because the very next day,
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: like our friends went to the beach and we all
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: hung out together that same day and he was there,
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: and that's where I had the opportunity to kind of
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: talk to him and get to know him a little
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: bit more on a friendship basis.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: Okay, I knew I was sensing some chemistry here. Lauren
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: might have just met the other great male love in
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: a woman's life, the gay best friend.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: We had been close friends socially, hanging out in the
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: same group partying together, going clubbing and dancing and stuff.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: After six months, he had broken up with his boyfriend
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: and he needed to move out, and my sister was
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: moving out with her girlfriend, and so I said to him, look, Jason,
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: I have a room available. Do you want to move
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: in with me? You know I trust you, and I'm
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: looking for someone who can afford to pay the rent
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: and the bills, etc. So he took that opportunity and
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: he moved in straight away. Pretty much, I just thought
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: I'd be living with my friend and it was just
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: going to be the same as living with any other
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: friend really. But when he moved in, we just became
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: best of friends, like almost overnight. And it was because,
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: like I said before, he showed so much interest in
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: my life. He wanted to go and do the things
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: that I enjoyed. He wanted to go for runs on
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: the beach and things like that, all the things that
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: I really liked to do. We grew to be best
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: friends really really quickly. Like we did everything together. We
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: went out for dinners together, and people did think that
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: we were a couple because we were always together. He
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: was really affectionate with me when we'd go out in public.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: We held hands and you know, he would put his
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: arms around me and I loved that, but he was
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: still seeing other men. I was seeing dating guys at
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: the time, and we would sometimes hang out together in
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: groups when we were dating other people. We would go
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: on double dates and it was really fun. But everyone
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: knew that with me came Jason, my gay best friend.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: Everyone knew that. Everyone who I dated knew that I
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: was going to be with my gay best friend no
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: matter what. And you know, my relationships didn't last, and
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: sometimes it was because of that. They thought they were
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: third wheeling with Jason. Because Jason was so involved in
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: my life and every aspect of my life. Most of
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: the time, the guys that I was dating felt uncomfortable
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: around him, especially because he was so affectionate, and you know,
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: he would tell me that he loved me in front
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: of like guys. Yeah, people just they just were uncomfortable
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: with that. Jason was very similar. He had short flings
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: with guys, like he would meet guys online or meet
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: guys out clubbing, and it would be a couple of weeks,
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: and sometimes they would feel the same way about me.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: You know, they would be like, why is Lauren always here?
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: Why can't we go out just us, like without Lauren?
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: But Jason would want me to be there. He would
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: always invite me, and sometimes we would have plans and
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: then he would invite his boyfriend at the time to
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: be like, do you want to do this with Lauren?
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: And I yeah, And so nothing ever really stuck with
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: either of us, and we bonded over that. I think, like,
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: you know, when a relationship would break down, we would
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: comfort each other, we would talk about it, you know,
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: we would be like scrolling on Tinder together, like, you know,
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: trying to set each other up with other people. That
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: was a really normal part of our friendship. And I
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: almost felt like if I was seeing someone and Jason
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: didn't accept them, I wouldn't even give them the time
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: of day, Like his opinion meant everything to me. He
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: felt the same way as well. Honestly, it didn't bother
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: me because I felt I had everything that I wanted
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: from Jason. Although it wasn't sexual, we did have a
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: deep love for each other and the friendship was fulfilling.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: The friendship intensified pretty quickly. Jason started working in the
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: minds over in wa and he would do swings that
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: would last for six sometimes eight weeks, so I would
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: be instidity by myself in our apartment, but we would
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: be texting and like calling each other, skyping each other,
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: video skyping each other, like twenty for seven while I
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: was at work, you know, at night he would call
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: me in the middle of the night when he started
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: a shift just to say like, hey, I'm studying my shift.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: Hope you have a good day. But the things that
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: we would talk about while he was away, it started
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: to get really deep and personal, Like he started to
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: talk to me about his childhood and growing up in
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: a religious family and how he could never come out
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: to his family. That was a really big thing for him.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: And yeah, it was important to me to help him
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: through that because I really cared about him. His sexuality
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: was a secret to his family. He wasn't from Sydney,
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: and yeah, his family didn't come to visit. He was
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: very active in the LGBTQ plus community and obviously dating
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: man in Sydney. He would go to Mardi Gras and
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: he would get dressed up and all that kind of stuff,
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: which was like really normal to us. And it wasn't
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: until he was working in the Minds and I guess
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: he started spending more time alone and away from us
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: and the comfort of his friends and the community that
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: he knew and loved. That he started to open up
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: a bit more about his family, is upbringing, his childhood,
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: about you know, not being out to his family, and
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: growing up in a religious household. When we would have
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: these late night calls and even just through messaging, he
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: would tell me a lot about his experiences growing up
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: in a church and growing up in a private Catholic school,
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: and just how much shame he felt about his sexuality
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: and he felt that his family would completely disown him
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: if they found out. And that really took an effect
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: on him as he was telling me, because he told
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: me he'd never spoken to anybody else about this, and
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: that it meant a lot to him that I was
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: able to help him through it, you know. And sometimes
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: he wouldn't come home for a month, sometimes six weeks,
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: and when he'd get home, he would just be so
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: relieved that he was able to, you know, live his
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: true self because working in the minds, he kind of
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: put on this front to be the kind of FIFO
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: worker persona that wasn't really him. Yeah, So when he
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: would come back home to Sydney. We would do all
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: the great things that we enjoyed. We would go out
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: and see all of our friends and have a good time.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: That was that's what made him happy. And then when
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: he would go back, he would like cry to me
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: because he had to go back to this secret life
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: that he hated. It broke my heart because and especially myself,
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: like having my sister, you know, if that was my sister,
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: and I knew that he was happy living that lifestyle,
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: so it did really break my heart knowing that his
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: family didn't really know the real him.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: This brought Lauren and Jason even closer together. Despite spending
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: weeks apart on other sides of the country, their bond
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: became impenetrable.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: We loved being together. We could literally just be our
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: most silliest self together and we never judged one another.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: We always had the best of times when we were together.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: He stayed working in the minds purely because of the
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: money and the lifestyle that he had. On his weeks off,
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: you know, he would work really hard for four weeks
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: and then he would come home for four weeks, or
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: sometimes we would go to Fiji for a week, or
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: sometimes while he was at work, we would be talking
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: about how much we wanted to go to Bali, and
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: so he would book a trip to Bali and I
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: would meet him there after his swing would finish. That's
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: the kind of person he was, like, he went above
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: and beyond for me. It was never an issue for him.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: He wanted to do the things that I enjoyed, and
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: he enjoyed them as well. You know, that's just what
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: we really liked to do. So for about a year
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: of him working in the mines, if he wasn't coming home,
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: we were traveling together. He loved spoiling me as well,
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: where he would come home with gifts. We would come
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: home with like perfume, and he'd send flowers to the house.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: Like he was everything I really needed. I was getting
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: everything I ever wanted from a relationship, even financially. He
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: was taking care of me financially. He was paying for
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: our rent and all of our bills and everything. Anything
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: I wanted I could ask him and he would help me.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: It was honestly the perfect relationship, except we weren't having sex.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: After about six months of his four weeks on four
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: weeks off swing, the conversations and our communication started to
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: get a bit more like talking about our life goals,
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: talking about where we want to be in the future.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: Jason started to talk about wanting to have a family
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: and wanting to have kids. You know, he was much
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: older than me, and at twenty one twenty two, that
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: just never crossed my mind to thinking about kids. But
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: you know, once he dropped the topic on me, it
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: was all we talked about. He felt a really strong
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: pull to having a kid or a couple of kids,
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: and yeah, I was just entertaining the idea of maybe
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: having a baby with my gay best friend. I mean,
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: we did everything else together. And yeah, he would kind
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: of tell me like, well, if you don't meet anyone
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: before you turn thirty, will you have a baby with me?
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: And I thought about him. I did really think, yeah,
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: why not. I mean I don't have anything else going
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: on or anybody else to have a baby with. And
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: I could see how great of a provider he was,
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: and I did see him as being a really good
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: father as well. So yeah, it was something that became
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: an important part of our friendship.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: They were as close as two friends could be, possibly closer, really,
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: But it was just a friendship, wasn't it.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: On one of his swing breaks. We met in Melbourne
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: and his mom and dad were that with his two
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: little brothers, and his brothers were still in high school.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: They had come a lot a bit later in his parents' life,
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: and he presented me to his parents as his girlfriend.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: I knew his struggles with his family, and so I
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: understood and I went along with it, you know, and
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: they treated me like I was his girlfriend. They were
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: getting to know me like I was his girlfriend. It
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: was almost because we had to play this relationship in
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: front of them. But during that time, I just fell
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: in love with him. I fell in love with the
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: idea of like being his girlfriend for real, not just
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: in front of his parents. And you know, even when
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: we weren't around his parents during that week, he still
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: treated me like I was his girlfriend. We'd go out
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: for dinners together and he was a gentleman. He would
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: open the doors and pull the chair out and actually
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: pay attention to me, listen to me and what I
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: had to say. It wasn't like he was being my
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: boyfriend in front of his mum and dad. And then
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: as soon as they went around, he'd go, oh, anyway,
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: like let's go back to you know, talking about boys
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: and things like that. It wasn't like that at all.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: In the back of my mind, I just thought, no,
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: no way, like it's impossible, you know, like he's a
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: gay man.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: Lauren pushed the idea of being Jason's actual girlfriend to
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: the back of her mind. It was a silly thought,
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: her head messed up with love and feelings, but she
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: knew they were misplaced. They'd been best friends for four
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: years by this point, of course, she adored him. Anything
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: more than a close friendship was just a silly fantasy.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: So one swing, he came home and he immediately wanted
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: to go out drinking. And this was not something we
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: did very often. We never went on random night outs drinking,
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: but this particular time he wanted to. So we just
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: went out for dinner and we were having some drinks
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: and stuff, and then we ended up going to the
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: city after that and we got really drunk. He was
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: just buying me drink after drink after drink, and that
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: was kind of normal, and we must have been out
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: all night dancing, and when we got home we ended
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: up kissing. I pushed him away because I thought, no, like,
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: we're gonna ruin things. You know, this is going to
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: ruin our friendship, and I thought maybe he was just
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: like being silly in the moment because we had had
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: a few drinks. But he actually said to me like, nah,
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: I actually want this, and I feel like you do too,
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: and yeah, so it happened. We ended up sleeping together
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: that night. In the morning, we both woke up in
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: my bed completely naked, and I just freaked out. I
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: got dressed so fast and I left the building and
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: I called my sister freaking out because I just thought,
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: what have we done? Like We've ruined everything. It's never
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: going to be the same again. There was a part
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: of me that was like, oh my god, I can't
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: believe it, Like it's happening, Like maybe he is really
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: into me, maybe we are going to have a baby together.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: And then there was another part of me that was
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: completely in denial because he was a gay man and
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: he like, we had just had a few drinks, so
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: I felt like, oh, nah, he's going to have regrets
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: in the morning. He's gonna want to move out and
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: not want to ever speak to me again. I don't know. Yeah,
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: my head was like spinning at that point.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: If Lauren had thought her head was a mess about
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: her feelings for Jason before this untapped a whole new level.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: When he said that I want this. When he said
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: he wanted to kiss me, I think I just felt like, oh,
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: this is the best moment of my life, Like, this
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: is what I've been waiting for. I always knew I
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: loved my gay best friend, but the fact that he
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: actually wanted to kiss me just felt unreal. You know.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: I think the girls that have a gay best friend,
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: it's like the dream, you know, because it's like you
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: know your best friend and you have everything with that person,
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: and for it to be like romantic, it's just it
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: never happens. So, I mean, we did live together, so
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: I had to go back to the apartment pretty quickly.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: He slept all day that day. He was super hungover,
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: I remember because he woke up and it was like
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: the next night and I said to him, like, do
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: you want to have a chat? Like do you want
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: to talk about what happened? And he just had the
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: biggest smile on his face and he was like, no,
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: do you And I just looked at him and I said, no,
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: We'll just leave it for the night, and yeah, and
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: we did. We just like went back to our normal life,
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: but because he had just gotten back from work, we
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: had two weeks together with no distractions, no plans or anything,
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: so we did take that time to talk about everything.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: I think we were just talking about the first night
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: and I asked him, like, you know, how did it
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: make you feel because you've never been with a woman before,
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: and yeah, in that time, he expressed to me that
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: it wasn't about my gender, wasn't about sexuality. It was
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: more about our connection and how much we loved each other.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: And he told me that he was comfortable, and we
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: slept together a couple more times. We hadn't really talked
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: about what we were We just wanted to let it
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: happen organically. Yes, so it progressed pretty quickly. So the
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: more we talked about having sex, the more sex we had.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: And then he went back to work and everything remained
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: the same apart from the fact that we had slept together,
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: and our conversations started to turn more into sexting, video chat,
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: sending a few pics air in there, and that was
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: basically it. We stopped talking about childhood, Trauman, we started
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: talking about having sex pretty much, and that was basically
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: our life for about three to four months. He would
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: go to work, he would come home, we would hook
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: up and do the things that we enjoyed. We lived
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: like we were together, but we never had a conversation
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: about it during that time until I asked him, am
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: I a girlfriend? Because we seem to be doing everything
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: that boyfriends and girlfriends do. And he just looked at
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: me and he was like, honestly, I love you so much,
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: and I don't want to be with anybody else, and
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: I don't want you to be with anybody else, So
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: if you're cool with that, then that's us. We're together.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: I was elated because never in a million years did
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: I think that our friendship would turn into a full
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: blown relationship where we just loved each other that much.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: And it was amazing, Like we were really happy, and
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: all of our friends knew, our families knew, yeah, and
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: everyone was quite cool about it. There were a few people,
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: my mom and my sister included, who were concerned that
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: I was not in a good spot. My sister and
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: my mom were quite concerned about our relationship because Jason
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: he wanted all of my time and attention, and that
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: meant taking it away from others, or you know, he
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: would want to one up them. If my family was
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: going on holiday, he would want to take me to Thailand.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: He would, you know, always want to present something better.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: And because of the way I felt about him, I
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: would accept his invite over others. And yeah, that really
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: bothered my sister especially, and she was quite concerned about
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: our age gap, how naive I was, or how innocent
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: I was, and she felt that he was buying my love.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: I would say, you know, you don't know him like
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: I do. You don't know you know what he's been through,
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: you don't know his background and his family. I'm all
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: he has. I would do anything for him, and he
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: would do the same thing for me. And I would
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: tell my sister if there's anything that you need, if
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: you needed something in the middle of the night, Jason
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: would be there for you because he loves me that much.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: And my sister just allowed it because she wanted to
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: be at least a little bit of part of my
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: life rather than nothing at all. My Mom's not a crude.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: My mom is very open about sex and always has been,
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: and she has a very colorful sex life, and you know,
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: she's very open. So when I said to her, like
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: I'm hooking up Jason, I hooken up, and she was like, oh, yeah, okay,
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: that's pretty cool. Yeah, like, if that's what you guys
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: are like, you know, if that's what makes you happy
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: and all that, that's cool, but make sure you're getting tested,
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: make sure we're using protection and things like that. And
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: I felt bad because I felt they were judging him
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: based on his sexuality or his sexual experience, and I
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: didn't think that that was very fear. I was super
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: open minded, Like I even said to him, if you
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: want to have relationships with men, then please tell me,
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: because that is something I cannot fulfill. And we talked
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: about that all the time, and he was like, nah,
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: like I really don't have that feeling. I feel like
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: you're my person and we're good, like just us two,
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: you know, which is like exactly what I wanted to hear.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: But it wasn't all immediately easy and rosy. Lauren didn't
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: care what anyone else thought about her, but she was
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: worried about Jason. He'd always been openly gay, was very
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: active in the LGBTQI community, and there were concerns about
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: how people may react to this new development.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: I knew people were going to be judgmental, and I
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: was really protective of him. I didn't want people to
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: treat him differently or you know, past judgment just because
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: he was now with a woman. And we did end
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: up like secluding ourselves ourselves from our friends because of that.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: We were afraid that, you know, they'd be talking about
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: it behind our back, and we didn't want that for
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: each other. And yeah, we eventually moved to just being
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: with one another. We stopped seeing a lot of our
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: friends once the relationship progressed. There's no particular reason why.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: It just kind of happened. People stopped reaching out to
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: us to hang out. But I think because we knew
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: so many people and our involvement in the gay community,
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: it kind of felt like like that wasn't us anymore.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: Because he was like straight. He never came out as
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: anything else. He never used words to describe himself or
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: his sexuality. He just said like i'm me, I'm me,
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: and that We would say that to each other often,
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: like this is just us, and you know, there's not
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: really one word that can describe it. We were just
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: Lauren and Jason. That was it. The relationship was really easy.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: It was very relaxing for me. I didn't really have
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: too much to worry about. Jason was a really good partner.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: He was the most amazing listener, and he just understood
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: me so well. He offered so much more than what
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: our friendship really started with. And that was just like
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: his devotion, his love, his affection. Like the way he
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: spoke to me was like I was the only person
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: in the whole world. And that's how he always treated me.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: Whether he was at work or he was at home,
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: it was always about me. I was so in love
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: with him and so obsessed with him and the way
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: that he provided for me, and like I never had
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: to worry about a single thing ever because he just
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: like had it all sorted. He had it all organized,
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: Like he kept a calendar on the wall and he
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: would book my dentist appointments for me and like give
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: me the money to pay for like whatever I needed.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: It was just like a very stress free relationship, and
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: I think that's why I just enjoyed it and I
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: lapped it up to you know. I would be like, hey,
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: so I heard that, you know, Beyonce's coming to Sydney,
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: Like do you want to go? And he would be like, well,
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: I don't really like her, but we can go so
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: so he would buy me tickets like it. That's just
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: the kind of person he was. He wanted me to
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: be happy all the time. Our relationship maintained that like
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: sexual dynamic, and you know, ramped up the chemistry there
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: for a good I want to say, six months, and
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: then Jason started talking about having a baby again, having
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: a family, and it was like his biggest dream in
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: life was to be a dad, and that's all he
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: ever wanted. He had names for like his kids, and
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: you know, we shared that that stuff with each other.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: It was pretty like normal for friends. And then you know,
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: boyfriend girlfriend kind of chat. And he started saying to me, like,
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: when do you want to have a kid? Is it
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: something that's on the cards for us soon? And that
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: felt like the next step as well. But at the
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: same time, I was twenty five turning twenty six, I
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: still didn't really have that big pool to be a mom.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: I felt like I wanted to continue having fun. I
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: wanted to continue traveling and discovering this romantic side of
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: us and exploring that a little bit more rather than
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: getting a bit too serious. So I entertained his conversations
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: about having kids. And that was because I never wanted
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: to disappoint him. I always wanted to talk about the
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: things he wanted to talk about. I knew I wanted
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: to have kids one day, but my timeline wasn't matching
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: up with his. And I didn't want to tell him
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: that because I didn't want to put him off. I
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: didn't want him to have a reason to not like me.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: I wanted to make him happy. But no matter what
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: I said, that was the topic of conversation every day
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: he was at work. Baby chat. Yeah. And then he
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: came home from work one day and he asked me,
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: when did I last get my period? I said to him, oh,
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: I think maybe like a week ago. And he was
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: like perfect, and he picked up his phone and he
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: put it in his phone and I was like, wait,
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: what are you doing And he's like, oh, nothing, I'm
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: just just curious. So that's when it kind of began.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: The baby planning started. He ramped it up. He ramped
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: up the baby chat. He wanted to talk about my
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: mental cycle, he wanted to talk about my diet, he
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: wanted to talk about, like, you know, how many drinks
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: I'm having a week, And started asking all of this stuff,
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: and he was very open with it. He said, you know,
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: we need to prepare. You told me one year. I
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: may have said that in a conversation, but in my heart,
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: I wasn't feeling like I could have a baby in
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: a year. I knew that deep down. So for about
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: four weeks when he was home, it was preparing us
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: to get pregnant. You know, I would talk about how
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: he's much older than me and he doesn't want to
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: be an old dad, and it would be a great
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: situation for us because I'm young, I'm fertile, I've got
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: lots of eggs and I could free some if I
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: want to. And it was just everything. It was the
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: IVF chat. It was going off medication and even for himself,
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: like what vitamins he should take. Yeah, it became super
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: serious and very quickly sex was about conceiving. So we
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: had been sleeping together for about eight months when the
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: sex started to be about how kids, and it was
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: every time he was home. The sex was not passionate.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: It became about having a baby. He didn't know, but
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: I was taking the pill this whole time because I
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: wanted to have some sort of control and I wanted
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: to have a say, and you know my decision. But
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: my heart just loved him so much. I didn't want
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: to let him down. And I just thought, if I
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: just like hold off, like you know, so many women
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: don't have babies right away, So if I can just
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: hold off until, like I'm ready, then I'll go off
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: the pill. But because he was so up in my
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: business and every aspect of my life, I would get
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: my sheets of contraception pill and I would pop them
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: all out and put them in my vitamin jar so
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: that he did know. He would never check like my
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: vitamin C jar, you know. And so that's how I
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: took my pill every day when he was home.
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: Okay, so this doesn't sound great, surely, Lauren realized that.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: To be quite honest, No, because I just adored him,
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: and a part of me loved that he wanted to
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: be a dad so much, because I, like, I could
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: see myself being with him forever and I could see
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: myself having kids with him. It just wasn't right then.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: I just wasn't ready to have a baby like right then.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: I wanted to wait a little bit longer. And even
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: though I told him that he was very good at
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: getting his way with everything, but also a part of
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: me like felt quite empowered because it was my book,
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: It's my uterus. You know. He can't just have a
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: baby whenever he wants. It doesn't work that way, right,
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: So I kept taking my pill, and every day when
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: I would take my pill, I would like say to myself, like, yes,
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: that's up to you, Like this is your choice, nobody else's,
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: And he was just had no idea. Yeah, so I
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: would say we were actively trying quote unquote to get
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: pregnant for about three months. He thought that it would
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: happen really fast because I was young, fit, healthy, young lady.
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: He thought I would get pregnant pretty quickly, and of
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: course it didn't. One day, when he was at work,
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: I received an email and it came from a lawyer,
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: but it wasn't written by the lawyer. The letter was
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: written by Jason. And I don't know if it was
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: real or if it was fake, but the contract basically
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: listed a few terms and conditions to being his baby mama.
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: Dear Lauren Police. He attached a contract for future children
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: with Jason. I had a quick flick through it and
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: I just like, I just burst into tears because I
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: thought that he was my best friend. We were in love,
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: we were like talking about our future. We were potentially
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: going to have a family one day. And reading this
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: email just was like a stab in the heart because
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: the conditions that were listed in this document were disgusting,
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: like just something that you would like never ever want
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: to give the mother of your children. The first one
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: was that I had to return back to my previous
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: weight within three months of giving birth. That I would
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: have to cover fifty to fifty percent of the expenses
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: when it came to having a child, that I was
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: not to have a c section, I had to give
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: birth naturally because according to his research, a vaginal birth
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: is better for the babies microbiom. That he would be
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: naming the children, he would choose the names. I don't
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: think at the time I even finished reading the document.
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: It just made me sick because never ever in my
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: life had I seen this side of him before. It
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: broke me because here I was thinking I had a
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: bit of control around when I was going to conceive
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: another life, and here's him sending me all these terms
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: and conditions, thinking that he owned me and that I
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: would oblige. I immediately picked up my phone and tried
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: to call him because I thought it was a prank.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: I thought, like, there's no way he would the depth
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: that we went through talking about our future kids, none
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: of that ever came up. And that's why I was
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: so shocked, Like I just gonn't believe it. And when
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: I picked up the phone and tried to call him,
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: of course he didn't answer. He knew what was calling.
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: I just waited, waited to hear from him, wait to
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: see what kind of explanation he could possibly have. When
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: we did get in touch, it was probably the next day.
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: I asked him pretty straight up. I just said, was
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: all of this just to have a kid that you
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: can keep as your own? Like, because I felt like, well,
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: where do I fit into the picture when the baby comes,
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: Like I can't name my own child or have an
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: input into the name. Like I asked him, did you
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: do this just to have a baby with me? And now,
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: of course he said, no, no, no, it's not like
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: that at all. I'm just trying to protect myself. I
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: had this deep feeling that Jason had planned this to
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: have a child to fulfill his dream of having a child.
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: At this same time, I was trying to convince myself
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: that that wasn't true because of the relationship that we built,
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: because of the memories that we had, like the traveling
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: and staying up all night talking about like our dreams
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: and talking about traveling with our kids and all of that.
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: I just couldn't believe that he had manipulated me into
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: having a baby. Although I think that that was the case.
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: Straight away was like, nah, I'm not doing it no way,
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: because I had seen from family members, you know, who
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: had had kids young, and the tumultuous relationships that they
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: had had with their their kids' fathers, and I just
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: thought to myself, I have to pick my kid's father.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: It has to be the most important decision I'm ever
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: going to make. Because I thought that this man loved
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: me and adored me more than anyone else in the world,
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: and he still looked at me like that, like that
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: I belonged to him, That he could tell me what
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: to do with my body, that he could tell me
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: that I had no choice or control around my own kids,
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: And yeah, I knew that I had to get out.
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: Then once I received the contract, I realized in that
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: moment that my life was never going to be the
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: same again. I immediately had an emotional change, and it
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: was something I couldn't really help. You know, as women,
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: we tend to check out emotionally before we do physically.
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: And I felt that, and over the course of about
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: two months that Paul just felt stronger and stronger. The
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: more I thought about getting married, having kids, being with
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: a husband who wants to adore me in motherhood and
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: enjoy the natural process of, you know, having a family,
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: I felt that that wasn't going to happen with Jason.
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: After the contract, I wanted to kind of maintain what
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: we had and put that behind us, because there was
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: so much good in what we had, and I wanted
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: to believe that that was a mistake he made. So
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: I kind of continued to put in the effort that
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: I had done before, you know, keeping up the communication
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: when he was away for work and talking about kids,
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: talking about the future. I was so afraid of losing
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: him that I wanted to keep him interested. But when
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: he went back to work, like the messages stopped coming,
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: he stopped replying, or he left me unseen a lot,
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: and he stopped calling as well, And like I knew,
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: I knew that it wasn't going to be the same
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: as it was. But every day I would message him
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: like hey, babe, how's your day going, And I miss you.
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: I can't wait to your home again, and he'd say, hey, thanks, yeah,
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: I'm tired, talk tomorrow. And that just was not the
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: Jason that I knew and loved. When he got home
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: after that swing at work, it was the same. It was,
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: you know, he didn't want to talk, he didn't want
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: to hang out, he didn't want to do the things
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: that we enjoyed. I found that he was, you know,
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: going to the gym by himself, when we always did
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: that together. We always cooked together, like all of our
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: meals like breakfast, lunch, and dinner. When he was home,
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: we cooked together. The first day he came home, I
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: woke up in the morning and he had just eaten
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: his breakfast and left. And that was like, yeah, it
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: really broke my heart because I knew he was trying
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: to send a message, almost like almost trying to prepare
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: me for the breakup. I ended up going to my mom's.
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: I packed a bag and I went to my mom's
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: and I just said, I need to have a breather
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: and can't stay with mum. And I, oh, chat to
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: you soon, and he just said, yeap, okay. So I
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: spent about a month at my mom's and during that
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: time I told her everything about how it began and
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: how it progressed into what it was, and telling her
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: all about, you know, the baby making and how he
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: just became so obsessed with wanting to have a baby.
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: And my mom, she's a dag. She just said to me, girl,
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: if you don't get up out of that house right now,
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: you are going to be stuck with that man for
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: the rest of your life telling you how to raise
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: your baby. And I knew she was right. I knew
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: she was right. I just needed a little bit more
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: time to process it. And I kind of like wanted
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: him to come and sweep me off my feet, Like
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: I wanted him to just rock up to mums and
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: just say, oh, like I'm sorry, let's just like start over.
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: And I would have jumped in his arms right then
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: and there. He never came. He would message me like
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: every few days and say like when you're coming home,
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: and so yeah, maybe maybe this week, maybe next week.
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: But he never wanted to resolve anything or you know,
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: he never wanted to say sorry. I wanted him to
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: say sorry so bad, so that we could just start over.
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: I started to kind of map out how I would
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: leave and where I would go and what I would
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: say to him so that it wasn't a big fight
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: it was. I wanted it to be smooth, so that
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: I wasn't hurting him. I never wanted to hurt him,
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: and I knew that once I did leave, it wouldn't
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: be easy. I knew that it would take a long
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: time for us to detach from me each other because
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: we were in each other's pocket twenty four seven. So
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: I eventually went home to collect my things, and I
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: didn't want to go alone because I didn't want to
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: backpedal on all the work that I had done with
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: my mom and my family, my sister. So I knew
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: I had to go there with somebody. So I asked
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: my brother to come with me. And he liked Jason,
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: they were friends, but he didn't care. He wanted me
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: to get out of there. So yeah, he took me
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: home and I just went into the house and I
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: started picking up my things, and a lot of the
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: things were his because he took care of everything. He
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: paid for everything, he bought everything. So when I was
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: packing up my things. I looked around and I realized, like,
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: there's like hardly any of me here, you know, like
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: a few eggs and clothes and like here straightener and
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: a few bits and bobs like that. But other than that,
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: it's really like his life and I was just living
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: in it. I said to him, like, okay, I'm picking
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: up my things and I'm going to move in with
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: my mum, and he just gave me a big hug
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: and we had a little cry together.
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was really sad. The last thing he said
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: to me was just if you ever need anything, I'll
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: be there. It was packed up the car and.
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: I left and I never went back. We both knew
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: we didn't have to have a conversation or like an
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: argument or anything. We just knew that that was the
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: best thing to do for us. I think he felt
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: that he had to let me go because he, like
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: I was twenty eight when I left, meant ten years
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: with him, and I think he knew that he had
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: to let me go and live my life. For the
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: first few weeks after I left, I stayed in my
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: bed and talked to no one and did nothing. I
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: was so sad. I was grieving like the friendship more
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: than anything. It was more the friendship that I lost
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: that I was so so sad about. Like every time
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: my phone would light up, I would think, ah'ser him,
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: because we like messaged each other all day and I
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: missed that, Like my phone stopped going flat because I
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: wasn't getting any messages or any calls. And because he
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: was my whole world. I didn't really have many friends
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: outside of our relationship, so I didn't even really have
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: anyone to talk about it with. I didn't really want
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: to get to know somebody else and do all that
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: again to one day maybe have kids. I thought that
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: we were in the right spot to like kind of
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: getting there, and it was even though our timings were
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: not in line, I did think, yeah, maybe one more year,
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: and like, yeah, I'd love to have a baby. Yeah.
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: So I was really scared. I was really scared about
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: leaving and starting over and meeting someone else. Even though
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: I was young at the time, I just didn't feel young.
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: It was a big chunk of my life, and he
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: was really all I knew. I had had very short
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: term relationships, but other than that, I didn't know anything
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: else other than Jason. He taught me. Everything that I
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: knew about friendship, relationship, sex, like it all started with him,
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: and I was petrified of ever doing any of that
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: with anybody else. When I first moved to Sydney, I
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: didn't really know anyone or anything. I was so young,
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: and he took me in and cared for me. He
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: protected me. He was so much and he taught me
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: so much as well. He really did. I felt like
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: he was a gentleman. I felt that he treated me good,
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: he adored me. He would tell me I was beautiful
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: and that he was the only person that could take
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: care of me, and I believed every single word he said.
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: I ate it up. Yeah, I felt like a million
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: bucks when we were together. Yeah, that's how he made
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: me feel. For about a month to eight weeks, I
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: was depressed, grieving. I missed him so much. He was
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: all I thought about, and I just really hoped that
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: he was happy, Like I really hoped that he would
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: be able to like find the courage to come out,
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: like find a partner and have a baby with his partner,
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: because I think deep down that's what he really wanted.
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: I felt that his shame of his sexuality was kind
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: of tainting his dream, you know, his true dream, which
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: was to have a male partner and have a family
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: with him. Yeah. I just felt I was doing the
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: right thing by going no contact and just leaving and
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: letting him do his thing, and maybe he felt the
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: same way about me as well. But about three months
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: after I moved out, I received a message on Instagram
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: and it was from a girl, and the message just said, Hey, Lauren,
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: can I ask you a question? Is Jason gay? And
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: my heart sank. I felt like I was going to
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: vomit because I thought, oh, my gosh, why would somebody
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: say that? Because we didn't use labels, we didn't use
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: words like that to describe each other. I didn't respond
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: to the message because I was just too protective of
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: him and it wasn't my place to tell anyone about
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: his private life. But I did find out from a
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: few of our mutual friends that he was dating her
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: and they had actually met at work while we were together.
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: I felt like receiving that information it was like, great,
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: close that book, and now we are Because there was
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: always a little part of me that if he said jump,
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: I would have said how high even after I left,
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: But getting that information was like that was closure for me,
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: I could move on. By this stage, I had already
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: done a little bit of you know, deep work and
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: was working on myself. And you know, if I had
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: received that message the day after I walked out of
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: their house, I think I would have collapsed. But at
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: the time, I really just like felt like, not my monkey,
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: not my circuit, you know, like my time is done.
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: I've done ten years with this man. I gave him everything, literally,
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: like I gave him my body and soul, and now
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: it's like up to him to deal with his own demons.
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: I didn't hate him, and sometimes I felt like I
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: wish I did, so that you know, I could have
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: a little bit of like anger, to be like, oh
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: this freaking lose ale whatever. But there were too many
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: good things about him. Yeah, so that closed it off
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: for me.
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: It took a while, but Lauren was able to pick
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: herself back up and begin to start a new life,
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: one without her best friend or her partner. It was
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: slow and hard, but she got there and she hasn't
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: looked back since.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: I'm married now to my beautiful husband. We've been married
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: for three years and we've gotten two little girls who
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: are just the absolute light of our life. We love
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: them to absolute bits. But when my eldest was about
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: eight months old, I decided to take her, like for
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: a walk through the city. I had been stuck at
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: home during COVID and you know, we're finally allowed down,
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: so I decided to take her for a walk. And
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: so we jumped on the train and we're just cruising
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: down George Street and I hear my name being called
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: out from across the street Lauren, and I knew immediately
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: hill was my stomach sank. I thought I was going
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: to ship my pants because I just thought I knew
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: the day was going to come one day, like we
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: lived in the same city. But I was really surprised
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: he come running across the road Lauren, how ai ya?
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: I said, hey, I'm really good and he just looked
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: down at the pram and looked up at me and
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: he was like, this is I said, yeah, this is
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: my daughter, and he was just like he just gave
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: me the biggest hug and he was like, oh, my goodness,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: she is so beautiful. Congratulations, I'm so happy for you.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: And I had my hands like on the pram like this,
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: and he looked down at my hand and he saw
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: my wedding ring, and he was just like he just
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: looked at me and he just said, I'm so happy
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: that you're happy, and I wish you nothing but the best.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: And I just looked at him and I was like,
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: thank you so much. I didn't have have it in
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: me to ask him how he was or where he
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: was at in his life. I almost didn't want to know.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: And I just said, thanks so much, lovely to see
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: you look good. And that was I said, I've got
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: to get going. He's like, yeah, no worries, you know,
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: I have a good day. And that was it. And
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: that was four years ago, and yeah, it was It
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: was a super like healing moment for me, just to
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: see that he was well and he looked happy, like
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: he looked like his usual self. I have a couple
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: of mutual friends like that we're still friends with on Facebook.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: But I don't think that Jason is involved much in
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: the LGBTQ plus community anymore. Yeah, just because I haven't
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: seen like anything of him anywhere, you know, with my
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: friends who are still quite active in the social communities.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: I've always like hoped and wished that he would live
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: his authentic life out, you know, because I knew that
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: side of him for four years, you know, where he
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: was like actively dating other men. And yeah, I always
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: thought that as he got a bit older and matured
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: a bit and was less ashamed, that he would finally
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: come out. But yeah, I don't think he has. Jason
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: would be in his fifties now, and I would hope
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: that he's wise enough now to just be his authentic self.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: And I would hope that even if he doesn't want
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: to come out and have a relationship with a man,
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: that he feels that he can still have kids on
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: his own, he doesn't need somebody else to do it
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: with him. I don't miss him now. I'm just really
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: lucky to be in the position that I am now
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: because I and I know that, you know, finding the
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: right person and being married and having kids with a
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: guy who just absolutely adawes you and your kids, you know,
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: it doesn't always happen that way. So I know that
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: and I appreciate that, and I feel like if it
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: weren't for Jason and myself and our experience, I would
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: have never met my husband and have the family that
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: we have today. I always imagine that being the mother
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: of Jason's kids would be like walking on eggshells and
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: would be like, you know, getting permission for every single thing.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you can't name your own kids, then
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: what else could you possibly do as well? And I
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: felt that that's the kind of arrangement he wanted when
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: seeking out the mother of his kids, or if he
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: felt like that would be me. Like he did tell
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: me that I would be an amazing minad and that
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: I would be the best mum for his kids. And
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: it was because I did everything that he wanted, you know,
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: I said yes to everything that he wanted and I
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: was available to him. Twenty four seven, I look back
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: and I think I think Jason picked me, Like from
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: that very first night that we met at the party.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: I think he saw me at that party and he
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: saw how young I was, how vulnerable I was, and
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: how kind I was to him, and how drawn I
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: was to him as well, you know, like I said,
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: we clicked immediately and I went along with everything that
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: he presented to me as a friend. Yeah, so I
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: felt that he picked me. But looking back, I really
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: don't think that I would change my experience. I guess
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: now that I am a mom, I do realize that
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: it is a really special and sacred time and sharing
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: my kids with my husband is just amazing. And I
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: always knew that I would have kids when it felt right,
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: and so now that I have that, being a mom
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: and experiencing motherhood is literally just the most amazing thing
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: I think I've ever done and I ever will do.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: I always thought that the love that I had for
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: Jason was, you know, beyond this earth, but truly being
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: a mom and having kids and experienceing them is so
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: much more, so much more than anything that you'd ever
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: experience with a partner. I truly believe that.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: Everyone Has an X is a Mintimedia production and proudly
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: part of the Muma Mea network. It's written and narrated
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: by me Georgia Love and produced by Linda Scott. If
• 1:07:47
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