Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #564 A Conversation With Madonna King

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#564 A Conversation With Madonna King · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:03
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.
0:05
Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just
0:09
Speaker 2: wants answers.
0:10
Speaker 1: Now.
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Speaker 3: Hello, it's doctor Justin Coulson with a conversation today that
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Speaker 3: I have been itching to have for months. So a
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Speaker 3: couple of months ago, Rebecca Sparrow, who has one of
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Speaker 3: the most interactive, engaging and uplifting Facebook pages on the Internet,
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Speaker 3: started a conversation about kids in year twelve, year eleven,
0:29
Speaker 3: and year twelve around the country who are going through
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Speaker 3: so much pain and I'm going to use the word
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Speaker 3: trauma as it's associated with their schoolwork because of the
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Speaker 3: pressure to do well, to get into university, to get
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Speaker 3: the results, all of the pressure that's on these kids
0:42
Speaker 3: and the curriculum demands.
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Speaker 2: That these kids are experiencing.
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Speaker 3: Well, Beck caught my attention, but she also reached out
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Speaker 3: to Madonna King, who is the author of the brand
0:53
Speaker 3: new and wonderful book called l Platters. L Platers is
0:58
Speaker 3: Madonna King's new book how to Support your teen daughter
1:01
Speaker 3: on the Road to Adulthood. And Madonna and Beck have
1:04
Speaker 3: started this big I don't know what I'd call it
1:07
Speaker 3: a project, I guess to try to help us to
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Speaker 3: work out what's going on with the curriculum and how
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Speaker 3: we can better support our children at such a stressful
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Speaker 3: time of life. Madonna King, who has been an award
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Speaker 3: winning journalist who has written a bunch of books that
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Speaker 3: have been so so well received, including Being Fourteen and
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Speaker 3: now l Players and a couple of others as well,
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Speaker 3: has joined me for the conversation to day on the podcast. Madonna,
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Speaker 3: I'm so glad you're here. Thank you for having this chat.
1:34
Speaker 1: With me, Thanks for asking Justin, can we.
1:37
Speaker 3: Talk about this evolution, this conversation that Beck started one
1:40
Speaker 3: day because she was in a bit of a mood
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Speaker 3: on Facebook that has literally exploded with thousands and thousands
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Speaker 3: of people becoming involved and creating a whole lot of
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Speaker 3: input for you.
1:51
Speaker 4: Isn't she gorgeous?
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Speaker 1: Like this just worried her because someone had sent an
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Speaker 1: email and she asked about it, and all of a
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Speaker 1: sudden she was just inundated, caught up for a cup
2:00
Speaker 1: of coffee and thought, what can we do?
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Speaker 4: Because for people.
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Speaker 1: To actually put pen to paper or to get onto
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Speaker 1: that keyboard and explain with such rawness what their children
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Speaker 1: are going through is a pretty difficult thing. So we thought,
2:13
Speaker 1: why don't we just set up a website and asked
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Speaker 1: people to upload without identification their story, and so we
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Speaker 1: did it. It's called testing times at school and at
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Speaker 1: spelt out and justin it was phenomenal, Like she mentioned
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Speaker 1: it on her Facebook page and it just went berserk
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Speaker 1: and there wasn't a day that I didn't cry reading them.
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Speaker 1: We've got more than a thousand, and they're the ones
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Speaker 1: we've uploaded. We've not uploaded any that identify as school,
2:44
Speaker 1: a child, something that paints how someone may have taken
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Speaker 1: their life. We've been very, very careful in what we've uploaded,
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Speaker 1: but more than a thousand stories and what they do
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Speaker 1: is just parents, teachers, medicos and students say how this
3:03
Speaker 1: curriculum is currently crueling their last year at school.
3:09
Speaker 2: Talk to me more about that.
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Speaker 3: I mean, this whole conversation came about as I recall
3:13
Speaker 3: from somebody who said, what kids are expected to do
3:15
Speaker 3: in grade eleven and twelve is at least at the
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Speaker 3: level of university in first or second year UNI.
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Speaker 2: Am I getting that right?
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Speaker 1: That's what people are saying. So the biggest jump is
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Speaker 1: now year ten to year eleven. That's what all my
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Speaker 1: research shows, and some educators are saying we need to
3:32
Speaker 1: talk more to parents about that jump. We're demanding children
3:35
Speaker 1: decide what subjects they choose in year nine, so they
3:40
Speaker 1: get to the end of year twelve and think, I
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Speaker 1: didn't do biology, I can't be a nurse, or I
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Speaker 1: didn't do specialist maths, I can't do economics.
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Speaker 3: My life's over, which is patally false, right, I mean,
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Speaker 3: it's so false.
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Speaker 2: So there's all this pressure.
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Speaker 3: On our fourteen and fifteen year olds to know what
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Speaker 3: they're going to do when they're in year twelve.
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Speaker 1: Or in university, and the stories that are come in
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Speaker 1: paint this picture where oh my.
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Speaker 4: Heart goes out to teachers.
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Speaker 1: Like one teacher just said with such emotion in a
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Speaker 1: note to us, that she dreads a student asking a
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Speaker 1: question out of curiosity because that may take her down
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Speaker 1: a path that she'd love to venture down, but it
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Speaker 1: means she can't get through the content to the curriculum.
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Speaker 1: So she pleads with kids just to let's get through
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Speaker 1: the content. Let's get through the content that's wrong.
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Speaker 3: That's astonishing. I've got a book on my shelf. It's
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Speaker 3: one of my favorite books of all time. It's called
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Speaker 3: The Hungry Mind by Professor Susan Engel, and it's about
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Speaker 3: how our education system has I think you used the
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Speaker 3: word crueled, that the education system has effectively stymied curiosity
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Speaker 3: in kids because we're telling them what they've got to learn,
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Speaker 3: when they've got.
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Speaker 2: To learn it, how they've got to learn it, and
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Speaker 2: why they should have learned it this way or not
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Speaker 2: that way.
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Speaker 3: And she found that kids in primary school they only
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Speaker 3: ask one to two questions per hour other than can
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Speaker 3: I go to the toilet or like? In terms of curiosity,
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Speaker 3: it's just not there, And isn't it the purpose of learning?
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Speaker 1: Isn't the job of the education system to teach our
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Speaker 1: children how to learn life? Learn learning off quotes for
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Speaker 1: an English exam when once you graduate, you look up
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Speaker 1: the quotes. If you can't work this out in a
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Speaker 1: team environment at work, you ask someone. But those skills
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Speaker 1: of teamwork and an inquiring mind, curiosity, listening, critical thinking
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Speaker 1: are not taught or tested. And so we are developing
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Speaker 1: a graduates that may be academically bright in terms of
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Speaker 1: the words they can use or the two thousand word
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Speaker 1: essays they can write.
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Speaker 4: But I do think that sense of what else can
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Speaker 4: I learn?
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Speaker 1: What else can I ask? Where? Might this lead questions
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Speaker 1: that's being really hammered out of them before they actually
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Speaker 1: even graduate.
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Speaker 3: I have two points on this, Madonna. The first is
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Speaker 3: I used to be a university lecturer. I lectured from
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Speaker 3: first year psychology through to master's level psychology. And I
6:00
Speaker 3: can tell you as somebody who has had a lot
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Speaker 3: of time spent in that university context lecturing. My first
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Speaker 3: three daughters have all studied psychology in grades eleven and twelve.
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Speaker 3: Two of them actually dropped out because they hated it
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Speaker 3: so much. But as I've looked at the content that
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Speaker 3: they've been expected to be assessed on, I've watched my
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Speaker 3: year eleven daughters being assessed on content that I was
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Speaker 3: often asking second year university students to develop. And it's
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Speaker 3: astounding to me at two levels. First of all, it's
6:30
Speaker 3: astounding from the point of view that why are we
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Speaker 3: asking our sixteen year olds to know what a second
6:34
Speaker 3: year university student might know? But secondly, school teachers. Are
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Speaker 3: we honestly expecting school teachers to be assessing psychology content
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Speaker 3: at a second year university level when they're not psychologically trained?
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Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean?
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Speaker 1: Like?
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Speaker 2: This is crazy?
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Speaker 1: Well? And what underpins that is if we had the
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Speaker 1: best education system in the world, if our students were
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Speaker 1: graduating ahead of those in Asia or Europe, you would say, alright.
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Speaker 4: Well it must be worth it, and that's the opportunity cost.
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Speaker 1: But some will think it's worth it right, But we
7:05
Speaker 1: are not.
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Speaker 4: We're going down.
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Speaker 1: So at every level I think something is wrong. And
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Speaker 1: you know I mentioned the website that Beck and I
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Speaker 1: set up. You know, I just before we got on randomly,
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Speaker 1: randomly with my eyes closed, picked one note. Let me
7:20
Speaker 1: read it to you. I work in an emergency department
7:23
Speaker 1: in a new South Wales hospital. I see people under
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Speaker 1: twenty five coming in with mental health concerns. The amount
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Speaker 1: of young people coming to ed with suicidal thoughts, actual
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Speaker 1: self harm and attempted suicide that report the stress of
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Speaker 1: year eleven and twelve is the reason they want to
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Speaker 1: die is outstanding. I see a lot of students at
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Speaker 1: the start of year eleven when they first realize the
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Speaker 1: expectations and workload and then increase in term three of
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Speaker 1: year twelve. These students say things like, I can't keep
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Speaker 1: up with the work, I'll never get into UNI. What's
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Speaker 1: the point in living if I can't pass school? I'm dumb,
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Speaker 1: I'm stupid, I'm a disappointment. I'll never be able to
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Speaker 1: get a DCT. John. That's just a mental health professional
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Speaker 1: in New South Wales.
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Speaker 4: Who is talking about a public school?
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Speaker 1: One out of a thousand, and yet we don't even
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Speaker 1: have someone with a mental health background or someone like
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Speaker 1: you sitting on our curriculum review boards.
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Speaker 2: Hey, I'm wiping my hand around. I'll do it. I'd
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Speaker 2: love to be in there.
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Speaker 1: Yes, but surely if we are looking out for the
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Speaker 1: mental health of our children. And I get emotional talking.
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Speaker 4: About this, because some children will fly through, but many
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Speaker 4: many won't.
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Speaker 1: Our teaching and bless our teachers, they can't. They can't
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Speaker 1: teach individually. So are they teaching to the top of
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Speaker 1: the class, the bottom of the class, the middle of
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Speaker 1: the class. Certainly in independent private schools they're kind of
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Speaker 1: trying to lift everyone so that they appear in these
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Speaker 1: league tables.
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Speaker 4: Because that is what is required of them.
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Speaker 1: But what is happening at a very private level is
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Speaker 1: children are thinking they're not worth it, and their giving up,
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Speaker 1: and we as adults and educators and just people with
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Speaker 1: a heart and a head, have to sit down and think, well,
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Speaker 1: how can we not decrease the academic merit of what
9:14
Speaker 1: we do. You know not, but we need to deliver it,
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Speaker 1: perhaps in a different way, or do it in a
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Speaker 1: way that recognizes a A in physics is not the
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Speaker 1: road to.
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Speaker 2: Be Prime Minister Madona.
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Speaker 3: After the break, let's talk about your meeting with the
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Speaker 3: curriculum body, you and Rebecca how to sit down face
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Speaker 3: to face with them.
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Speaker 2: And we'll also talk about some solutions for parents.
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Speaker 3: Who are hoping and praying that a curriculum change might
9:41
Speaker 3: come along, but at the moment there's only so much
9:43
Speaker 3: you can do.
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Speaker 2: We'll talk about what we can do.
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Speaker 3: As parents to help our kids through this troubling time.
9:48
Speaker 3: That's right after this on the Happy Families podcast, Get Curious,
9:56
Speaker 3: Not Furious, be where your feeder mistakes lead to mar
10:00
Speaker 3: high emotions, low intelligence. Have you ever heard these or
10:04
Speaker 3: any of the other principles I share and thought I
10:06
Speaker 3: need to stick that on my wall?
10:08
Speaker 2: Well now you can.
10:09
Speaker 3: The Happy Family team has pulled out the best justinisms
10:12
Speaker 3: for a five mini posters, perfect for your home or
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10:17
Speaker 3: dot com dot a you. It's the Happy Families Podcast,
10:21
Speaker 3: the podcast for the time, poor parent who just wants
10:24
Speaker 3: answers now Today are very sobering conversation with Madonna King,
10:28
Speaker 3: the author of the fabulous book L Platers L Platers
10:33
Speaker 3: How to Support your teen daughter on the Road to Adulthood.
10:35
Speaker 2: I mean, this is the age that we're talking about,
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Speaker 2: isn't it, Madonna?
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Speaker 3: That we've got these kids who are leaving high school,
10:40
Speaker 3: they're emerging into adulthood.
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Speaker 2: They need our support.
10:43
Speaker 3: All of this excessive and unnecessary demand is being placed
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Speaker 3: on them academically, sometimes by us as parents because we
10:51
Speaker 3: just want our kids to do well in life, sometimes
10:53
Speaker 3: by teachers because they want the kids to do well,
10:56
Speaker 3: or a cynic might say because the school needs to
10:59
Speaker 3: have some high results because it's good for their marketing,
11:02
Speaker 3: and sometimes on themselves.
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Speaker 2: Right.
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Speaker 3: I mean, it's not even an adult that's involved in this.
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Speaker 3: It's just the kids putting this pressure on themselves.
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Speaker 1: I think that's the big one. I think parents are
11:12
Speaker 1: recognizing the need for their child to be happy. They're
11:15
Speaker 1: wondering why they're so sad and feeling isolated and not connected,
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Speaker 1: And I think schools do everything they can within it's
11:24
Speaker 1: a systemic problem. It's not an individual school protr I think,
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Speaker 1: But what we are seeing, and I'm seeing in my
11:29
Speaker 1: research is girls quite young, look around, take on.
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Speaker 4: The messages of those delivered by a social media.
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Speaker 1: Or in their friendship group, and they see their friends
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Speaker 1: getting eight out of ten at maths, they're getting six,
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Speaker 1: and instead of thinking it's like learning to ice skate,
11:44
Speaker 1: I've got a practice, they think I'm dumb. I'm never
11:47
Speaker 1: going to be good at maths, and therefore they decide
11:50
Speaker 1: as young as ten, eleven and twelve that they won't
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Speaker 1: take that stream. And so I think very much it's
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Speaker 1: girls particularly, and that's my specialty than boys putting pressure
12:01
Speaker 1: on themselves and then judging themselves brutally when you don't
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Speaker 1: measure up and almost giving up, justin almost giving up,
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Speaker 1: rather than thinking, all right, this is a challenge, and
12:12
Speaker 1: how do I actually develop a confidence and an independence
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Speaker 1: in actually nailing this.
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Speaker 3: It reminds me of two different bits of research that
12:21
Speaker 3: have really struck me. The one is around perfectionism. So
12:24
Speaker 3: research shows that perfectionists do extremely well in school because
12:27
Speaker 3: you've got this fixed way.
12:29
Speaker 2: Of doing things.
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Speaker 3: You're in very clearly defined parameters, and then there's a
12:33
Speaker 3: clear pathway to perfectionism or something close to it to
12:36
Speaker 3: an excellent outcome. But the research show also shows that
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Speaker 3: once they get out of high school, perfectionists fall and
12:42
Speaker 3: fail badly. It's a really it's a recipe for disaster
12:46
Speaker 3: once we get out of the very clear structures of school.
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Speaker 3: The other thing that your conversation reminds me of is
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Speaker 3: a psychological reality called self other knowledge asymmetry, which basically
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Speaker 3: means I can see what's happening inside my head and
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Speaker 3: I'm falling apart. I'm one hot mess. You you're getting a's,
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Speaker 3: you're killing it. You're on the stage getting merrit awards,
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Speaker 3: and you're this, and you're that, You're amazing. And so
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Speaker 3: I've got all this self knowledge about my own pathetic failings,
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Speaker 3: and my only knowledge of you as a other.
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Speaker 2: Is that you're the star of the show.
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Speaker 3: Therefore, I assess that I must be deficient and dysfunctional
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Speaker 3: as a human, and you are perfect and know how
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Speaker 3: to do it. What we don't know is the mess
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Speaker 3: that's happening inside the head of the person who we're watching.
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Speaker 3: That there's an asymmetry between our knowledge of what's going
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Speaker 3: on between self and other.
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Speaker 1: And I think our kids are really bright for our players.
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Speaker 1: I sought the council of a thousand girls age sixteen, seventeen,
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Speaker 1: and eighteen, and some of them picked.
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Speaker 4: Up on that and even said, I am jealous of
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Speaker 4: such and such because she's happy, or I want to
13:50
Speaker 4: feel contented like such and such. I thought that was
13:54
Speaker 4: really clever.
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Speaker 1: Because they're understanding that all of this war paper that
14:00
Speaker 1: dominates their lives is not delivering that happiness that they
14:05
Speaker 1: that they deserve in their final year of school. And
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Speaker 1: I think they've got to start listening to that little
14:09
Speaker 1: voice inside of them, not the voice outside of them.
14:12
Speaker 1: They've got a nurture that voice inside of them and
14:16
Speaker 1: grow that. And I think from a parent's perspective, we've
14:19
Speaker 1: got to let them fail, you know. And I say
14:21
Speaker 1: that and people think, well, well, you don't want your
14:24
Speaker 1: kids fall, and of course you don't, but you know,
14:26
Speaker 1: just in my own family, I have a daughter who
14:30
Speaker 1: is quite bright. She works hard, but I'll still remember
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Speaker 1: this science paper that she did in year ten and
14:37
Speaker 1: she finished it.
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Speaker 4: Handed it in, and as she handed it in, she
14:40
Speaker 4: turned it.
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Speaker 1: Over and realized there was a mark ten marks on
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Speaker 1: the back that she didn't see. Well, the crying lasted
14:50
Speaker 1: for a long, long, long.
14:52
Speaker 4: Time, but you know what, and I felt.
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Speaker 1: So sorry for it, And she ended up getting quite
14:57
Speaker 1: a good mark in any case. But now in your
14:59
Speaker 1: lef and twelve and she's about to go into externals,
15:02
Speaker 1: in You're eleven and twelve, the first thing she does
15:04
Speaker 1: when she gets an exam paper is turns over and
15:06
Speaker 1: sees the back. She failed, and she learned a lesson.
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Speaker 1: And I only say that because the more we let
15:13
Speaker 1: our children fail, even in little things, the more they
15:16
Speaker 1: learn to independently make a decision. And I think there's
15:20
Speaker 1: been this correlation where we don't want them to fail.
15:23
Speaker 1: We're having less and less children, and we've more and
15:25
Speaker 1: more invested, and COVID's made us want to deliver to
15:28
Speaker 1: them what we can. But as a result of that,
15:31
Speaker 1: I think we're almost setting them up for failure. The
15:34
Speaker 1: moment all those structures, school structures disappear, there's not a
15:40
Speaker 1: teacher saying, look, do forty minutes on homework on this,
15:42
Speaker 1: or here's a practice paper or a hand in your draft,
15:45
Speaker 1: or you know, go home and do the Oh you
15:47
Speaker 1: don't look well done, and are you okay? Did you
15:49
Speaker 1: break up with your boyfriend? All of that disappears in
15:52
Speaker 1: November of year twelve, and that's where, like a big balloon,
15:56
Speaker 1: so many children just deflate and they don't know how
16:02
Speaker 1: to get that energy that airback.
16:05
Speaker 3: I want to wrap it up there, but I feel
16:07
Speaker 3: like there's a couple of other things that I want
16:09
Speaker 3: to throw in as well, Ma Donna, and I'd love
16:11
Speaker 3: to get your feedback on it based on what you've read.
16:13
Speaker 3: So one thing that I think we need to do
16:16
Speaker 3: is let kids know that the atar actually doesn't matter
16:18
Speaker 3: that much at all. We've got universities accepting early entry.
16:22
Speaker 3: In fact, I think that it's recently to say university
16:24
Speaker 3: isn't the be all and end all either. There are
16:27
Speaker 3: so many people who do so many things that don't
16:28
Speaker 3: require a university degree that make valuable contributions and help
16:31
Speaker 3: them to lead meaningful lives, and they raise great families,
16:33
Speaker 3: and they're like this idea that university matters so much
16:37
Speaker 3: we place this premium on the value of a university education. Now,
16:41
Speaker 3: I believe in getting all the education you can get.
16:43
Speaker 3: But I look at my dad, who runs a furniture
16:45
Speaker 3: moving company, and I think to myself, I love that man,
16:49
Speaker 3: and I don't really care that he.
16:50
Speaker 2: Doesn't have a university degree.
16:52
Speaker 3: He's a great dad, he's got six fantastic kids, and
16:56
Speaker 3: I just I so appreciate him. I look at the
16:58
Speaker 3: guy who came and fixed my head either the other day,
17:00
Speaker 3: or the bloke that's supplying me with gas at my house,
17:03
Speaker 3: or the person who keeps my lawns green or whatever
17:05
Speaker 3: it is, or all that sort of stuff, and I
17:07
Speaker 3: just think university degrees are important and we definitely need them,
17:11
Speaker 3: but not everyone has to have one, and putting pressure
17:13
Speaker 3: on our kids to go to university, especially when they
17:16
Speaker 3: don't know what they want to do. I mean again,
17:18
Speaker 3: as a university lecturer, formally, I don't believe the kids
17:21
Speaker 3: should be at university full stop, end of story. University
17:24
Speaker 3: is a place for adults, not kids. And when I
17:26
Speaker 3: look at those first years that came through my lecture
17:28
Speaker 3: theaters and my tutorial groups, I reckon ten percent of
17:32
Speaker 3: them were ready for university. The other ninety percent wasting
17:36
Speaker 3: their time, wasting money.
17:37
Speaker 2: Ridiculous.
17:39
Speaker 4: So two things I.
17:40
Speaker 1: Think our schools need to explain to parents and to
17:44
Speaker 1: children that only up to fifty percent of children do
17:47
Speaker 1: not sit for a natar many of them go on
17:49
Speaker 1: to university but we keep hearing, particularly in private independent schools,
17:53
Speaker 1: that one hundred percent of kids get a NATAR, and
17:55
Speaker 1: many schools encourage that when you don't need a NATAR
18:00
Speaker 1: how to go to university, there are other parts.
18:01
Speaker 4: You don't need an ATA to get a good job.
18:05
Speaker 4: I think that's really important.
18:06
Speaker 1: And the other thing I would say is just to
18:08
Speaker 1: back you about that adults and university.
18:11
Speaker 4: COVID has had more impact on.
18:13
Speaker 1: This generation and this cohort of kids than any other.
18:18
Speaker 1: You know. Mark mccriindle, the demographer, says, from a health perspective,
18:22
Speaker 1: it was the elderly, but from a social and economic perspective,
18:25
Speaker 1: it's the kids we're talking about. And I think it
18:28
Speaker 1: is really really important for us to understand that they
18:31
Speaker 1: have missed the experiences that you and I had, that
18:34
Speaker 1: they're big sisters and brothers, had to make judgments, to
18:37
Speaker 1: take calculated risks, to make decisions and regret them. And
18:41
Speaker 1: what we are seeing now in first year university students
18:44
Speaker 1: is children more like fifteen than eighteen. And as parents,
18:47
Speaker 1: I think we need to gift back those experiences and
18:51
Speaker 1: be aware that our children are graduating without that competence,
18:55
Speaker 1: confidence and independence that pre COVID was so easy to
18:59
Speaker 1: get them.
19:00
Speaker 2: Gosh, I feel like we could talk about this for days.
19:04
Speaker 3: We've gone well, well well over time, and yet we've
19:06
Speaker 3: barely scratched the surface. The work that you and Beck
19:09
Speaker 3: have done on this, I'm going to call it a project.
19:11
Speaker 3: I know it's informal and it's just kind of evolving,
19:14
Speaker 3: but the work that you've done in this project is important.
19:16
Speaker 3: It's created a conversation that matters, and I love what
19:19
Speaker 3: you're doing. If people want to find out more about
19:21
Speaker 3: it and get their stories on your website, whereabouts should
19:24
Speaker 3: they go?
19:25
Speaker 1: Follow Beck on Facebook Rebecca Sparrow or go to www
19:29
Speaker 1: dot Testing Times at school at is spelt out and
19:33
Speaker 1: you will read what other parents, teaches, students, academics and
19:37
Speaker 1: medicos are saying. Add yours, but please don't identify the
19:41
Speaker 1: school or your child. And the more we get, the
19:44
Speaker 1: more we can present to.
19:45
Speaker 2: Government and just congratulations on great work.
19:49
Speaker 3: Additionally, if you would like more information about what Madonna
19:52
Speaker 3: has to offer for your late teen daughters from age
19:56
Speaker 3: sixteen up, check out her book l Players, How to
19:58
Speaker 3: Support Your teen Daughter on the Road to Adulthood. Madonna
20:02
Speaker 3: such a pleasure to talk to you. I wish we
20:03
Speaker 3: had more time.
20:04
Speaker 2: This has been great you too, Thanks Justin.
20:06
Speaker 3: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Rulan from
20:08
Speaker 3: Bridge Media, with Craig Bruce as our executive producer. If
20:12
Speaker 3: you'd like morefo about making your family happier, visit happyfamilies
20:15
Speaker 3: dot com dot a you