Latest / Green Benches with Deiniol Brown / Kevin Hollinrake MP: What Future for the World’s Oldest Party?

Transcript

Kevin Hollinrake MP: What Future for the World’s Oldest Party? · Green Benches with Deiniol Brown

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Andy Burnham wasn't born until the 1970s,
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: so he probably won't remember the 1970s all that well.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: But I think to somehow attribute all the problems that we've got today
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: the Thatcher years, or the changes Thatcher made, is complete nonsense.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: We kind of thought we could be all things to all people.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: And political parties cannot.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's not to say you don't try and govern for everybody, you don't try and help everybody.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: But your policies have got to work in a way that you,
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: they are proper conservative policies,
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: and that's how you get the benefit of everybody,
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: rather than spreading different policies for every different cohort.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: Lots of businesses,
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: have been used to trading with the European Union a certain way
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: for over 50 years,
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: up to 50 years.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: And suddenly tell them you're going to change the way your trading relationship
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: with what might be your normal market.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: Particularly if you're selling foodstuffs or drinks to Europe.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's going to be difficult.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I knew it would cause instability economically
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: and I probably didn't quite realize how much political instability it would cause.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes times are tough and sometimes things are going well.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: And to leave and go to your competitors when times are tough is Terrible, treacherous.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: So no, we're not accepting those people back.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: So whether they're convinced by Kemi's form of politics or not is irrelevant.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's steady as you go budget,
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think I've heard the phrase,
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: which is frightening given the scale of the challenge we face today.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome back to Green Benches with me, Daniel Brown.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Today we're interviewing Kevin Hollenrake,
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: MP for Thurston and Moulton and also the Chair of the Conservative Party.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much for joining us.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Pleasure.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: Pleasure to be speaking to you.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I'm going to kick it off with the question I always ask MPs.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: Could you just tell me a bit about your background,
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: your upbringing and how that shaped you politically?
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm born in North Yorkshire,
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: who I represent now, which has been fantastic to represent in your home parks.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: They've actually just changed the boundaries, so my hometown is slightly outside the boundaries.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm born up in a little town called Leasing World, it's in York and Thirsk.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: Dad was a milkman, a farmer milkman.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: Mum was a social worker rehabilitating offenders.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: So...
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: And that sparked my interest in politics, really.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: My sister was studying,
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: is older than me,
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: studying politics at university when I was a college, even a teenager.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: So one thing about our family,
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: we used to have a lot of conversations about politics around the dining room table.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: I must say particularly.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: Particularly when my sister came back from university and universities tend to be,
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: they tend to get people a little bit interested in things left of centre.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: My mum and dad were pretty much right of centre, centre right.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: So we had good debates around the dining table.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that was the upbringing.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: One of four kids,
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: local market town,
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: worked as a milk boy for my dad from a young age, seven or eight years old.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: So that was it.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: And that kind of, and that was a spark really.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: They got milk.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: But I was in business.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: She already encouraged us to go into business, which I did.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I was always keen to do so.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I was at various different failures along the way,
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: but ultimately made the success of a business called Hunters,
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: estate agents, and built that from scratch into a big business.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: But that was really inspired by my dad.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess my political foundations were inspired by my mom and dad too.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: Was there a specific time when you realized that you were a conservative or was it
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: a kind of slow process of realizing that?
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think it goes through that period where you question everything.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I did as a teenager and I liked to debate those ideas and brought that kind
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: of debate into school.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: I was at a little comprehensive school.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't have a debate in society or anything,
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: but we would talk about those things in the sixth form common room.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, I mean, naturally because...
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: I want to buy a house, start a business, get on.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: All those things really are,
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: more aligned to conservative principles of opportunity and hard work
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: and personal responsibility.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: So
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: think it was probably in my late teens, early 20s, you realize that was the way they go.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: And you're now chair of the Conservative Party.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: But growing up,
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: were there any figures in the Conservative Party that you particularly looked to
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: for political guidance or were inspired by?
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, pretty predictably, I guess.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: Anybody who grew up in the 1970s,
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: 60s and 70s,
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: the days of the three-day week,
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: literally the telly would go off at nine o'clock at night,
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: which is a marvellous thing as a teenager.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: And your parents explained that was because the Myers were on strike and other strikes as well.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: So there's rubbish on the streets and bodies weren't buried and all that kind of stuff.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so Margaret Thatcher came along and took the unions on.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it changed everything.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: It changed the country for the better.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: As some people might try to say otherwise,
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: but this country has been held to ransom by the working side of the equation.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: And there's two sides to the equation, and both are equally important.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: But you can't neglect the capital side of the equation and gain businesses to invest
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: and to be having a good relationship with
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: the workforce that's not one-sided is very important.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: So she sorted it out, sorted the unions out.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: So she was the inspiration for many people back then and also talks
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: about opportunity a lot and whether it be selling shares,
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: getting people into buying shares for the first time many people did when they
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: Who shares in BT and others and them are really just saying to people,
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: you could be anything you want to be using conservative principles,
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: which are obviously obeying the principles of freedom of speech,
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: rule of law,
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: democracy,
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: but really then personal responsibility,
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: getting out there and showing what you could do.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: And the solutions to all the questions you've got and all the opportunities you want
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: to take advantage of in your life are basically made more clearer and brighter
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: to conservative principles.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: So that was what Margaret Thatcher brought to me.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: And when you hear someone like Burnham saying that he wants to roll back the legacy
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: of Thatcher,
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: how do you think that lands with conservatives and people sympathetic
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: to conservative principles?
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, not well.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, clearly,
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: lots of people like me remember those days and remember the country was a sick man
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: of Europe.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: And inflation was running over 20%, 27% at one point.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Things were really, really tough.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: And we had to go to the IMF for a bailout, infamously.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I think you're rewriting history.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Andy Burnham wasn't born until the 1970s, so probably won't run the 1970s all that well.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: But I think to somehow attribute all the problems that we've got today
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: the Thatcher years or the changes Thatcher made is complete nonsense.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we've had 13 years of a Labour government between those times anyway.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, if they were going to do something, they should have done something about it then.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: But none of the
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: countries followed the kind of pattern of where this country was in
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: the mid-1970s and succeeded.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a complete nonsense.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it doesn't go down well with conservatives.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: And to be honest, I don't think it goes down well with most people in the center ground.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Some people vote conservative and some people vote for other parties in the center ground.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think people can see that that was a correction and some changes
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: that actually made were much needed to try and restore the balance between employers
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: and workers.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: And are there any other figures since Thatcher that specifically stand out to you
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: as people that you admire politically?
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm a big fan of Ken Clarke.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, when I came into Parliament, I was, I mean, I don't agree with Ken and everything.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: No Conservative agrees with each other and everything.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: But I just admire him so much,
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: not just his political achievements,
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: but also So his interests,
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: wider interests, you know, he was interested in sport, cricket, football and jazz.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: And he's, you know, so I've always felt he was somebody that I naturally had an affinity with.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: So when I came into Parliament in 2015, he was just made father of the House shortly after.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, I'm going to sit next to Ken Clarke.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I did for the next five years and lived through lots of ups and downs.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously,
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: the sad death of his wife,
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: but also Brexit, of course, and all the debates around that.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: And one thing Ken did,
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: even though clearly the party was split down the middle in terms of Brexit,
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: Ken always kept a good humor with everybody,
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: even when lots of other people on our side were quite critical of him.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Not always in a critically nice way either, you know.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: But he always kept it for the humour, which I always admired.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, for many reasons, a big admirer of Ken.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: I actually just bought his autobiography the other day.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: Very much looking forward to
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: getting sucked into that.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: When you read it,
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: it's like Ken is sat in a leather armchair with a cigar and a glass of brandy
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: and he's talking to you.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's how the book's written.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: And before we kind of get stuck into a bit more of the politics of
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: the Conservative Party and some of the national issues today,
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: could you just tell listeners about your constituency and about Where you grew up,
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: people who've maybe not been there before,
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: unfamiliar with the area, just explain what it's like to them.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: And we call North Yorkshire God's Own Country.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: Thurston Malt is a big part of North Yorkshire.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: North Yorkshire is a big county.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I say I grew up in a small marketing world and across my constituency,
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: you have marketing terms like Thurs,
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: Walton, Pickering, Kirby Moorside, there's Firely as well.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, so, and it's, it's a combination.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: So those beautiful old market towns and rolling countryside.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I've got everything outside Natural Beauty in the Wardian Hills.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: I've got the Yorkshire Wolves,
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: which is due to become an area outside Natural Beauty or a natural landscape.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I've got the North York Moors and I've got the coast in Firely.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: So it is utterly stunning place.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: Lots of sheep, lots of cattle.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, arable farming as well, but usually mixed farms.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm very proud of it.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: and it's a place which as well as having farming,
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: we've got tourism,
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: of course,
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: and wonderful hospitality venues and their pubs, restaurants, that kind of thing.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Which I know about Black Lab and I'll try it out again.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: But also really some really good engineering businesses,
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: you know, so in aerospace, in military, in subsea.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Lots of things and nuclear.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: So some really a mixture of mixed economy, but a beautiful area.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: Castle Harrod.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've never seen Brad every visited.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, they immediately know what my constituents are like.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: Or if you watch something like Mission Impossible movies where he's hanging off
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: a train, a steam train, that's in my constituency.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: So people can see how beautiful it is by just looking at
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: those things.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: And we sat here today in Conservative Central headquarters and I'm sure there's
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: a lot of people wondering what is it actually that a party chairman does on
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: a day-to-day basis and what does a party headquarters do?
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well, essentially,
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: Conservative campaign headquarters is there to,
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: it's like the giant marketing department of the Conservative Party.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: So it's getting the message out.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Politics,
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: as well as clearly coming up with the right policies,
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: with the right leader,
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: the right team to implement those things, it's a communications business.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: So we need to get the message out.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, and there's two ways we do that.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: We've got the air campaign and we've got the ground campaign.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and my job as chairman and I've got a wonderful chief executive,
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: we've got a wonderful chief executive in Mark McInnes, Lord McInnes.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: He used to be the right-hand person in a similar role for Ruth Davidson
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: when she was very successful in Scotland.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: So, it's our job really to just make sure the machine runs well and
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: the communication flows as smoothly as possible and widely as possible.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really getting the message out.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: And, um, so on the air campaign, you can tell what that may be.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's social media, it's media, it's how we, uh, how we, um, set piece events.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's making sure Kim is,
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: uh, Speeches in the household for the field get proliferated as far as possible.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's making sure we get candidates stepping forward.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: We look after fundraising, of course, as well, for donors who will support us.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: Research for all our various teams as well.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: And, of course,
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: we look at the opposition,
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: all the opposition parties as well,
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: to make sure we're getting the message out,
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: not just our message, but why it's different from the others.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: And politics is about creating a choice in people's minds.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's very important that we can articulate that choice as clearly as possible.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: And the ground campaign is equally important.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what you can imagine.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's our activists, it's our candidates, it's our MPs, it's our councillors and council leaders.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: Every person in this party,
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: member, supporter, member of parliament, leader is equally important.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: They've all got a job to do.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: Making sure they do what's right on the doorstep.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: So because we've got a big job in rebuilding trust from where we were in 2024.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: We're rebuilding that.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: But you only rebuild trust face-to-face.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: So people see Kemi,
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: they like what they hear,
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: they like what they see,
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: they like her character and her competence and how forthright she is.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: So she rebuilds trust there.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: What we've got to do is replicate that on the doorstep.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: So marketing works in a multiplier fashion.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: You see Kemi,
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: they see her on social media,
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: they might see her on TV,
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: they might see her in a newspaper,
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: but then they see a leaf at the door, a knock on the door.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: A conversation on the doorstep,
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: social media at a local level,
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: all those things all replicate the entire conservative message.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: So we look after all that,
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: how we get the message out,
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: and we try to help our people on the ground use best practice wherever possible,
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: good intel.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: We do lots of research in terms of identifying different types of voter information.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: And we don't tailor policies to different types of voters,
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: for different types of voters,
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: but we do tailor our message in terms of what we say to those people.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: We think it would be the most effective way.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it's far...
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: But campaigning now is far more scientific than it used to be.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's always been a bit of an art and a science.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: In the age of tactical voting,
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: you need to know people's voting attention in detail,
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: not just the likely to vote Conservative.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: And by some measures, you're the chairman of the oldest party in the world.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it's also to this day very much still a broad church.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: I recently went to the Conservative Party conference this year
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: and I very much realized whilst I was there
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: that there are still many different perspectives alive within
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: the Conservative Party.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: How do you go about managing a party with that kind of history and those variety
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: of different movements and views within it?
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, a lot of that's about leadership.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: The most important characteristic of any organization, success or otherwise, is leadership.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: You get that right, everything else follows.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, and I think people can see that Kemi is a different type of leader.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: One thing that we are blessed with Since coming in 2015,
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: you go back to your constituency,
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: you talk to your voters,
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: you talk to people,
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: not your voters, you talk to your members and the officers in your association.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: There'll always be different views on your leader.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that's obviously David Cameron,
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Theresa May, Boris, Liz Truss, Erichie, and too many leaders.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: But nonetheless, you know, we made our mistakes there.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: But there are different views on them.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: But I've never known the party and our supporters and people
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: who weren't our supporters before is so almost universally admired at Kemi.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: So that helps tremendously.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: So leadership in terms of what she wants to do and how she wants to do it,
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think is the most critical thing.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: Now, around that then, there'll be some really important things that Kemi wants to do.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: And the obvious ones to talk about leaving the European Convention on Human Rights,
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: saying we can't get to net zero by 2050.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I think most people in the party...
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: Can accept the fact that those are important.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: There are principles that Kemi won't waver from.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: So her strong leadership on those is vital.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: But on other issues, of course, you want debate.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I think debate is healthy.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: It just needs to be constructive.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: One thing,
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: one of the mistakes we made in the past,
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think, probably because we were successful at getting reelected.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think at some point in time, we kind of thought we could be all things to all people.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: And political parties cannot.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's not to say you don't try and govern for everybody.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: You don't try to help everybody.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: But your policies have got to work in a way
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: that they are proper conservative policies and that's how you get the benefit
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: of everybody rather than spreading different policies for every different cohort.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I think Kemi's approach to this is, let's have the debate.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: Once we've decided, that's what we're doing.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's very important that people...
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: Gunnarsan, that's the
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: kind of person Kemi is.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: And you talked a lot there about the importance of leadership and it's true
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: that Kemi Badenoch's popularity has grown massively in recent years.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: However, that's quite outpaced the popularity of the party as a whole in the country.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: How are you addressing that disparity and does that remain a concern for you?
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think that was always going to be the case,
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: particularly early on,
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: because,
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: we're in the age of personality politics,
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: so the leader's always going to come first.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: And ultimately,
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: when we get to the general election,
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: people are going to be talking about, is it Kemi or Andy Byrne?
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: And that's, I think, the choice people will
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: make when you get to a general election.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: But there's no doubt as well,
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: if you look at the Chemi's popularity and the party's popularity,
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: yes, there's a lag.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: Our popularity is rising as well with Chemi's, although behind the curve.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: But the curve is still there.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: So yes, Chemi's now, I think she was the most popular in the party.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: She hasn't gone backwards, but Andy Burnham's had a bounce, which is, these things happen.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's in a honeymoon period.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think that will last too long.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: But she's a very popular leader.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: But the party herself has made huge progress.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: So if you turn the clock back a year ago, just before a conference, we were 16 points.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: And the polar polls is the only poll to look at.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: We were 16 points in the polar polls.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: Reform was 33 points, and Labour was early mid-20s.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: So that's much different.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: We're now in the polar polls where...
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Which is about 22 points in the polls.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: On one poll of polls, we've gone ahead of reform.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: And we're only about five points behind Labour, equal in its bounds.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: So we have made progress.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: We're about...
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: Six points up on where we were in terms of our polls and the other party,
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: the key party on the,
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: some people might say the right of centre has fallen backwards.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: So we're making progress, but we're under no illusion here.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: We've got a lot more progress we need to make.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: And we need to fight hard on the doorsteps as well as the air campaign,
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: the ground campaign, all those things.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: But we do, we see success.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: And success is around,
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: if you look at the local elections,
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: how well we did in,
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: be it Harrow or Westminster or Wandsworth or Bexley or Bromley or Swindon or Ferrum
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: or Bradford or Leeds.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: Around the country, we did well where we had the right campaign, the right leadership campaign.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: So things are moving forward for us.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's a lot more to do.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll come back to the question of elections in a bit.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: But I'd like to just ask you a few more questions
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: about how you approach party politics,
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: internal politics here in the Conservative Party.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: And as you mentioned earlier, Brexit had an enormous impact on your party.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: Before the referendum, I believe you were against Brexit.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel like this is still a massive litmus test within the party
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: or have you moved beyond the Brexit years as it were?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think we have moved beyond it.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, one thing I say, yeah,
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: you're right to say I was, I was,
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: I campaigned to remain because,
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: and the reason I did,
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: before politics for 30 years,
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: I alluded to before,
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: I started my own business, which I built a small business into a national model.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: We sold it and we're very lucky how that worked out.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: But lots of businesses,
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: had been used to trading with the European Union a certain way for
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: over 50 years,
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: up to 50 years.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: And suddenly tell them you're going to change the way you trade in relationship
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: with what might be your number one market,
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: particularly if you're selling foodstuffs or drinks to Europe.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's going to be difficult.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I knew it would cause instability economically,
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: and I probably didn't quite realize how much political instability it would cause,
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: but it has.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: But I've said in all those debates,
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: I would never have been arguing to join the European Union
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: if we weren't members back in 2016.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I think now to destabilize business again by saying,
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: oh, yeah, we might join in a couple of years' time.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to have this negotiation and everything might be different again.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: Business doesn't need that.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know any businesses that are saying that to me.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: Lots of businesses are saying don't leave because I've got this trading relationship.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: But no business is coming to me saying we should be rejoining it.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: We should move on.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the most important part of everything we do.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: And we ignore that at our peril.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: The most important part about everything we do is making sure the private sector is
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: in rude hell,
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: is doing well,
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: is confident because they'll invest and create jobs and create revenue
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: and create taxation, profits and taxation.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: And that pays for everything else.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: That pays for defense.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: It pays for health services.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: It pays for social care.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: Everything else depends on it.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: Private sector pays for the public sector.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's how it works.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what we should be thinking.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: What's right for the UK economy right now in terms of private sector economy?
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: I simply don't think revisiting those arguments again is a good use of our time for
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: the years ahead.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: And there's still a lot of people on the left wing or maybe the Ken Clarke wing of
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: the Conservative Party who feel ostracized underneath Kimi Badenocht's leadership
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: with some of your policies.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: Groups like Prosper UK, for example.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have a plan to win those wet Tories back?
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: Ken has never mentioned to me anything about Kemi dislikes actually.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: I know Kemi and I still go for dinner with him.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think he's been, I've spoken in support for Kemi actually.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean Prosper,
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: there are some people in Prosper that,
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean Prosper to me is like a think tank and we're not against think tanks,
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: people who think of ideas.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: So again, I see Andy Street, I see Ruth Davidson and we talk and we agree on most things.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think it's something that's dragging Kemi in a direction.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: If they've got some thoughts on how you can boost the economic growth,
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always keen to hear those things.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: But there's not some internal fight going on, not at all.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: So no,
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: we've got one version of the Conservative Party and it's building back under Kemi
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: and a very good team in the shadow cabinet who are all responsible for policies,
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: actually, in a way I've never seen before.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't in the cabinet before,
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: but I know from experience of working with some of the cabinet ministers
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: that they don't always get involved in that much in converting policies.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: Our shadow cabinet does.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: So they work with whoever they choose to work They're very much the work
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: of those shadow cabinet members, the team there.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the way to do it.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: And you know where you stand with Kimmy.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: You do.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I worked for two years as a business minister when she was business secretary.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I find that refreshing.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know exactly where Kemi stands.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's definitely my kind of politics in terms of low tax, low regulation, common sense stuff.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I think all my colleagues are enjoying working with them.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: We're very united.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: So some people are trying to,
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: it's a nice thing the media try and portray sometimes,
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm saying you, but is there some division?
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: But there's no division in our party now.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: We're a very happy ship.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: I suppose what I'm thinking out when I'm referring
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: to groups like Prosper UK is Prosper UK often refer to this group of voters
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: who are politically homeless,
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: several million people who maybe voted for the Lib Dems at the last election
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: or potentially
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe not thinking about political figures, but thinking about those voters.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: How are you trying to win those former conservatives or center-right voters back
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: into the Conservative Party?
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think the mistake we've made in the past with that is gone chasing
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: after those people with policies,
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: trying to create policies in the hope that those people will vote for us because
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: the policies,
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: rather than create good conservative policies based on good conservative principles
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: and then go and explain those things to those people.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's the difference and that's what we do.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I promise you,
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: I speak to lots of people who That were previously left of centre,
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: that like Kemi and like us and will vote for us.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: We are seeing that drift back from some of those people,
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: Lib Dems, Labour,
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: also from reform and people who had lost trust in us generally and weren't voting.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why you're seeing the poll numbers go up.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: I was with somebody yesterday who's a very senior business person who was previously
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: a big supporter of the Labour Party, loves Kemi, and will support us.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: And he's supporting us.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that's one of many.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, but that's because,
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: you know, Kemi,
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: but not because Kemi makes policies to suit those people,
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: as I say,
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: it's because they're like her and she's good at explaining her policies
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: and why we've got to be like that.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: Why you've got to cut welfare, which isn't, in some quarters, always a popular message.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: We've got to do that because we can't afford to do the things that are really important there.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: Not least defend ourselves, right?
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: Again, it's a huge threat.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is not a minor threat when you've got Russia that's, I mean,
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: it's not expecting an invasion from Russia,
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: but we know Russia will seek to undermine what we do in the UK
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: by various different means, military means or cyber means or whatever else.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: We need to be able to defend ourselves and show that we can defend ourselves.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah,
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: we are postponing those decisions because the government's not willing to tackle
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: the welfare bill.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what we need to do.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: And Kemi set that out and then to be able to fund defense,
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: then to be able to cut and cut taxes and critically to reduce our deficit,
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: the size of our deficit.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: So it'll mean ultimately a reduction in our borrowing.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: So all those things we can set out to do as long as we're brave enough to do the right things.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: Kemi's winning the argument and winning back those voters with proper conservative messages.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then maybe on the other side or the sort of right of right-wing politics here in
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: the UK, since the last election you've had several defections to reform from MPs.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: When you look at someone like Robert Jenrick,
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: do you think that's someone you can win back into the party or is
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: that someone who's been lost to right-wing populism?
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you have to ask Rob Jenner that, but he's not coming back.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: We don't want to win him back.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, those people, to me, I mean,
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: loyalty is a very, very important thing for me, not just in politics, but in life.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: And we work here as a team and we work through sometimes times are tough
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: and sometimes things are going well.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: And to leave and go to your competitors when times are tough is...
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: Terrible, treacherous.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, no, we're not accepting those people back.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: So, whether they're convinced by Kemi's form of politics or not is irrelevant to us
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: because I think it's fair to say that Robert Elliott particularly left
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: the Conservative Party.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: We're not interested in winning those people back as politicians.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: We are interested in winning people back who lost faith in the Conservative Party
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: and have started to support reform or vote reform or thinking of doing that,
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: of course.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: And we have no trick with those people.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: I understand why they did.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: We lost trust.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: And we can talk about the reasons why,
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: of course,
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: immigration and the psychodrama of changing leaders and some of
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: the things we didn't do we should have done and some of our policies on non-doms
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: or rented property or, you know, we're wrong.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: And we've said that.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: So...
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know,
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: that's what we need to do is regroup and that's what we're doing under Kemi and
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: because they're proper conservative principles
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: that I think will win back those people who've lost faith in us.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: And at this year's party conference,
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: Kerry Badenock revealed the right way,
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: her paper on where she wants to take the Conservative Party.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: For listeners who maybe haven't read this,
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: how would you summarize the kind of ethos of the right way?
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: And where does that come from in your party's DNA?
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: Its basic Conservative DNA is setting the...
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: The invisible hand of the market forces within the economy free
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: so it can generate jobs,
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: it can invest,
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: generate jobs,
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: generate revenue, generate profits, generate taxations, pays for everything else.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's one of the phrases she uses in the book is the invisible handbroke.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: Which is basically lots of things that are standing in the way of people getting on.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, planning is a very good example.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: You've got regulations that are tying people who want to invest to build houses,
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: build new factories, new good connections, getting in the way of people.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: So it's about a small estate.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's about a small estate which will mean lower taxation.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's about having control on welfare.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's all those things that are proper conservative values that have been there
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: for generations forever.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just re-articulating the basic foundations of conservatism.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that point on planning,
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: you might see eye to eye, for example, with Andy Burnham on.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: But I'd love to know what you,
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: in terms of the Burnham government, are disagreeing on most heavily.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: What areas of policy do you think the Burnham government have gone wrong?
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there's a number of things.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: the whole planning system is tied up in miles and miles and miles of red tape.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: Put in place by some of the regulations around the Future Home Standard,
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: for example,
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: things like just the way agreements work between the councils and
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: the developers called Section 106 agreements,
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: which are taking literally years to complete.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: So it's simplifying all those processes.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: We have announced the abolition of Natural England and the Environment Agency.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because those things operate without proper ministerial oversight.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: So those things gain the way of development.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: For instance,
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: actual England insists on something called nutrient neutrality
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: before homes can be built,
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: which means that phosphates and nitrates going into our water supply.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: House building isn't responsible, anywhere near primarily responsible for those discharges.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's mainly off of other sources, farmland and others.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: But you're stopping,
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: it's not in a way of development,
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: which is bad for people who want to buy homes, of course, and bad for the economy.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: And buy for businesses who want to build those homes.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: So yes, they've done some things,
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: some things which I agree with and some things I disagree with.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: Taking away the democratic consent, I disagree with.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: This kind of basically driving a coach and horses through Greenbelt in a way
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: that wasn't properly explained to people, I disagree with.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: The allocation of homes from urban areas into rural areas in
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: a completely unfair fashion, I disagree with.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that's having a profound effect in rural communities.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: But there are some things they try to do, changing biodiversity.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: Again, I can broadly agree with in terms of how to comply with that.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: But I think they're only scratching the surface in terms of the amount of cost
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: and regulation that's built into the system already.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: And if you,
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: in terms of building a new house,
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: which ultimately,
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: people I think most wonderful that we have all these rules
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: because you might have these benefits,
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: but people should understand that That the costs of building an average dwelling in
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: the UK is increased by about £70,000 per dwelling in five years.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: Now, who's paying for that?
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the buyers.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's people trying to get in the housing market.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: So we want to roll that back in a way that still makes home building efficient
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: but also viable because that's not where we are right now.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: As you know, Labour had a plan to build one and a half million homes in this parliament.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: They're probably going to build about half that.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's lower levels than we're building under Conservative government.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: So talk's cheap,
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: but I think they've got their plans wrong and it won't deliver
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: the economic benefits they've predicted either.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: So there's lots to do on planning that they've not done already.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: And we're speaking roughly one week before the Chancellor announces the budget.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: What are you expecting from his announcement?
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: Very little.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think it's steady as you go budget.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think I've heard the phrase, which is fright given the scale of the challenges we face today.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it's similar to Andy Burnham's speech, which I listened to Andy Burnham's speech.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: I thought it was well delivered in Andy Burnham's style.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: But he missed all the big things.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: He's talking about what he might do in the future parliament.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't talk about defence.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't talk about cutting welfare.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: He had no specific plans on how we get growth going in the economy today.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: All those things we need to do today.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: So it looks as if the...
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: The spending review will be the point and we can decide what money is going
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: to be allocated and when to our defense,
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: which is frightening given the problems we face today.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: So listen, I...
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: I really hope he comes out with the right things.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: I hope he reforms welfare and cuts welfare back so he can fund defense.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we need to do.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: We've offered to work with John Healy and Andy Burnham on that.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: And if they cut welfare, we're not going to...
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: We're not going to allow them to increase taxes.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to cut welfare, other forms of spending, it's a fun defense.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: We'll work with them on that.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I hope we'll hear because we need to do that.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: And to cut other taxes,
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: we want to cut stamp duty so it's easier people to buy a house and trade up
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: or trade down.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: We want to scrap business rates for the vast majority of Of shops, pubs, restaurants, hotels.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: And we've got a plan to do it by cutting welfare and other forms of government spending.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: 71 billion a year, we can do all those things.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: But we've got that plan, but we see no similar plans, detailed plans.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: From the government.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: And they should have those plans.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: So let's see what we get next week.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm not hopeful it's going to meet what the key priorities
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: that we have right now in terms of what this country needs to do.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: I imagine there's a lot of people in this building thinking about elections
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: and how you're going to approach the next election.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: When do you think the next election will be?
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: And have you had discussions about what potentially becoming the third largest party
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: in a parliament would look like and how you'd adapt to that?
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: So let's start in terms of whenever it comes, we'll be ready.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: So we selected another candidate last night,
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: Chelsea and Fulham, Tom Bennett will be a fantastic candidate.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so a business person who's also excellent local council on a great campaign,
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: and that's the kind of person we want.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: We've got thousands of new types of candidates stepping forward.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: So this is exactly what we wanted.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: So that's good news.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: So whenever it comes, we'll be ready.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, it could come even later this year, possibly.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: It could come next spring.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot will depend on the polls.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: But the polls sit at the moment and the polar polls lay over about 27 points in the polls.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: You can't win election from that level.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: So if he stays at that kind of level,
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: there'll be no election for the foreseeable future, in my view.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: So if that changes,
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: it could be the case and our donors are lined up
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: and our candidates will all be there and our campaign machine will be there
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: and we'll tackle that.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: I do not think we'll be the third largest party after the next election, no chance.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, one thing I loved about our conference,
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: I loved many things about our conference,
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: some really good things,
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: and the team,
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: of course,
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: and the plans we rolled out there,
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: and the spirit,
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: and the optimism, and my dog getting a standing ovation on the main stage.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: But the thing I loved,
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: and Kemi's speech, of course, and announcements here, and tax, all those things.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: We're great.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: But the thing I love more than anything was Kemi on a Sunday.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: And she stood up and said,
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: without condition,
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: without any reservations, that we will win the next general election.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I think she's right.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: And whenever it comes,
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think she will be,
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: because it'll be the first time that people have had the opportunity to vote
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: for Kemi Bairdnock to leave this country.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I think it'll be Andy Burnham versus Kemi Bairdnock election.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I think people like Kemi, And by then, Andy Burnham's honeymoon period will be fading.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: It'll be gone on completely.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: It'll tend to last long these days.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: So whenever it comes, I think we'll be in good shape.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I agree with Kemi that we will win the next election.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you very much, everyone, for joining us.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: Enjoyed it.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks very much.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: Order, order.