Latest / Ask the Lawyer / 1/9/2025 Ask the Lawyer with Tom Peyton

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1/9/2025 Ask the Lawyer with Tom Peyton · Ask the Lawyer

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Speaker 1: Unlock your dream property with meex Realty Group, where rich
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Speaker 3: Put the power maybe on the side. We have the
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Speaker 4: Hey a fair pleasant good morning to you. You can put
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Speaker 4: the power of patent on your side this morning. It's
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Speaker 4: zero four three four two eight one three one zero
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Speaker 4: for three four two eight one three. One has to
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Speaker 4: speak to Tom Peyton from the Peyton Law Firm, or
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Speaker 4: ask the lawyer this morning. You could get to get
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Speaker 4: sent right through to Tom Payton from the Peyton Law Firm,
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Speaker 4: who is here with this morning? Tom, Good morning, how
1:10
Speaker 4: you doing this morning?
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Speaker 5: I'm doing great. How you doing, man?
1:12
Speaker 4: I can't complain too much other than the weather. I mean,
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Speaker 4: I don't I don't mind cold weather. Listen, though, in
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Speaker 4: Charleston anyway, the roads are relatively clear and stuff. But
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Speaker 4: I know on the outskirts there is that there's a
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Speaker 4: lot of problems.
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Speaker 5: Yeah, I came from Today's Valley and the Interstate's fine.
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Speaker 5: And I don't like the code either, because they drive
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Speaker 5: the Tesla so uh, it's a it's kind of like
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Speaker 5: a crossover hatchback. I got a model why, which actually
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Speaker 5: is all will drive, and it's a They're heavier cars
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Speaker 5: than a gas powered vehicle of the same size because
1:44
Speaker 5: I guess the batteries, battery chassis and the batteries are
1:47
Speaker 5: all in the bottom underneath where you sit. So actually,
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Speaker 5: once you get going, it's a pretty good car in
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Speaker 5: the in the snow and the ice. The problem is
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Speaker 5: it rides low, and you've got to be careful because
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Speaker 5: those batteries are really expensive.
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Speaker 4: Oh man.
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Speaker 5: And so if you go over a little like for example,
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Speaker 5: when I'm getting out of my driveway where the snow
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Speaker 5: is plowed the public street and piled up icy block,
2:13
Speaker 5: you know, snow pounding through that doesn't work really well
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Speaker 5: with the Tesla because you don't want to have one
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Speaker 5: of those shards of ice come up and cut your batteries.
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Speaker 5: Had a case one time, a client that was in
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Speaker 5: an automobile accent with a Tesla. It's been a couple
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Speaker 5: of years ago. They were not quite as prevalent then,
2:31
Speaker 5: and his vehicle is gonna be totaled probably anyway, which,
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Speaker 5: by the way, most pretty much all new vehicles have
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Speaker 5: essentially a black box in there, like you hear about
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Speaker 5: with airplanes. So if you have a little serious case
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Speaker 5: or there's some dispute about how the accent happened, you
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Speaker 5: can hire an expert to go download data. Yeah, Tesla
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Speaker 5: has camera sensors all over it and one inside that
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Speaker 5: points down at in the passenger cabin from the rear
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Speaker 5: view mirror. You can turn that off, nobody can monitor you.
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Speaker 5: But when you have a crash event, it will record
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Speaker 5: that so many seconds prior to the crash. All angles
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Speaker 5: all cameras, so there's one to the right, one of
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Speaker 5: the left, one of the front, one of the rear,
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Speaker 5: and so my particular in that case I was referencing,
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Speaker 5: there was somebody pulled out of a local drive through
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Speaker 5: and you can see a traffic light right in front
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Speaker 5: of them, and it's it was a pretty hard collision
3:22
Speaker 5: at an intersection controlled by traffic light. And so when
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Speaker 5: you get those you know your client says, well, I
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Speaker 5: had the green light, and you always wonder, well, what's
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Speaker 5: the other person going to say, because they didn't stop
3:33
Speaker 5: and they're going to say they had the green light. Well,
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Speaker 5: this the Tesla did resolve any dispute in that case,
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Speaker 5: because if you can see, my client comes out of
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Speaker 5: the drive through facing the traffic light and it's green
3:45
Speaker 5: when he starts to move after getting his food or
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Speaker 5: whatever he picked up, and I thought, oh, it's going
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Speaker 5: to turn yellow before he gets a green all the
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Speaker 5: way through and then bam, it just gets hit from
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Speaker 5: the right side. So it was interesting. But unfortunately, and
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Speaker 5: when the tow truck came to pick up the vehicle,
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Speaker 5: they didn't use a rollback and pull it up on there.
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Speaker 5: They put the hook underneath it. Well they may not
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Speaker 5: have worked with Tesla's or no, they pierced the battery.
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Speaker 4: Oh no, oh, cheez, no, holy.
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Speaker 5: There's a whole another claim and the battery. I'll tell
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Speaker 5: you back then, I hunt the value of that battery
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Speaker 5: to replace it was like I was an excess of
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Speaker 5: ten thousand dollars. Yeah, and I've had my Tesla for
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Speaker 5: five years and i got it during the pandemic year
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Speaker 5: when it first started. So my battery, it's kind of
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Speaker 5: like your phone, like five year old cell phone is
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Speaker 5: not going to hold it's charge as long a brand
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Speaker 5: new that's right, And so it's it's a very slow process.
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Speaker 5: But for example, when I bought my Tesla, it claimed
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Speaker 5: that it could get let's say, three hundred and sixteen
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Speaker 5: miles of driving when you fully charge it, which that's
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Speaker 5: not true around here, and maybe if you want a
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Speaker 5: car treadmill, but when you're doing the real in Florida,
5:02
Speaker 5: which is actually the flat of states, if you're stopping
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Speaker 5: and going and going uphills, you know, causes problems. And
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Speaker 5: so I'd say, now my mix is more like two
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Speaker 5: ninety five or something even according to Tesla five years later.
5:14
Speaker 5: But but yeah, beyond that, it's, uh, it travels pretty well.
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Speaker 5: And it was it was fine getting here today because
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Speaker 5: I live in a subdivision within the city of Hurricane
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Speaker 5: and they do actually do a really good job of
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Speaker 5: keeping our road clean there, and you can get from
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Speaker 5: there to the public road about thirty four and it
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Speaker 5: was it was not bad this morning there, but the
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Speaker 5: cold's no fun.
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Speaker 4: Yeah right.
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Speaker 5: Well, the other good thing about Tesla is that you
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Speaker 5: control the car from your app. You have an app
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Speaker 5: on your phone and so I can turn on defrost
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Speaker 5: and control climate completely.
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Speaker 4: And that's a nice feature. I mean it really is.
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Speaker 5: It is good. Yeah. The problem with the cold is
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Speaker 5: batteries also don't charge is fast, and so your battery
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Speaker 5: will deplete rather quickly if you sit inside and give
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Speaker 5: your you know, turn defrost on for a half hour.
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Speaker 5: So it's eighty five degrees when you get in there.
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Speaker 5: And you don't have an engine, so the front is
6:03
Speaker 5: a trunk, there's no engine in it. It's open, it's
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Speaker 5: a hollow space, and of course the entire hatchback is
6:08
Speaker 5: as well. And then there's even a cavit underneath the
6:10
Speaker 5: floor in the hatchback for more storage. So it's it
6:13
Speaker 5: never gets warm outside the passenger compartment, which causes it
6:17
Speaker 5: to turn into a complete block of ice sometimes, which
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Speaker 5: is problematic as well.
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Speaker 4: But interesting how some of those things that you know,
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Speaker 4: we just have assumed with automobiles since there advent basically
6:30
Speaker 4: that tesla kind of throws and it's not necessarily a
6:32
Speaker 4: benefit or a detriment. It's just different. You know, like
6:34
Speaker 4: there's no ambient heat and so, you know, things like that.
6:36
Speaker 4: It's just a different experience. To back up just a second,
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Speaker 4: you said something a moment ago about when your client
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Speaker 4: was pulling out and you wondered if it was going
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Speaker 4: to turn yellow as he was going through. What is
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Speaker 4: sort of the is it a gray area as far
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Speaker 4: as like yellow does it mean? Is that just another stop? Officially?
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Speaker 4: Like as far as when you go to somewhere like that,
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Speaker 4: is there an area where okay, you're good if yellow,
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Speaker 4: but if.
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Speaker 5: It turns I say, it's a kind of a commons yes,
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Speaker 5: I mean, you know, and you see traffic lights because
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Speaker 5: I look at it more critically because of what I
7:09
Speaker 5: do for work.
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Speaker 4: I'm just curious.
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Speaker 5: Some of them are different, you know, some of them
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Speaker 5: you'll notice that they don't have a very long yellow
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Speaker 5: I think that's by design most of the time, because
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Speaker 5: it depends on the speed of the vehicles approaching the intersection.
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Speaker 5: You have other ones where you know, go from yellow
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Speaker 5: to red and then almost I mean instantaneously. It's turning green. Yeah,
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Speaker 5: I always think there should be you know, second to
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Speaker 5: lay before. So if you get somebody trying to time
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Speaker 5: it right, you know, approaching and know that it's going
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Speaker 5: to turn green because they can see the other light changing,
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Speaker 5: then you got problems with letting the lane clear when
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Speaker 5: somebody was going through when it's yellow. So that's a
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Speaker 5: that's more of a kind of a common sense who
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Speaker 5: is at fault deal and when. When you get into
7:49
Speaker 5: cases like that where it's not black and white, juries
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Speaker 5: are essentially asked to a sin fault to each party
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Speaker 5: and it's got out up to one hundred percent. So
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Speaker 5: so what the law is now in West Virginia is
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Speaker 5: if it's let's say you have we'll just say your
8:04
Speaker 5: damages for let's just use medical bills. We're ten thousand dollars.
8:08
Speaker 5: And then you take that case to the jury and
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Speaker 5: one person says, why I was going through a yellow Well, no,
8:12
Speaker 5: I it turned green and I was going through And
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Speaker 5: there's no real objective evidence to show exactly what the
8:19
Speaker 5: light was, Like I said earlier, with the with the
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Speaker 5: video evidence, then the jury just listens to it and determines,
8:27
Speaker 5: you know, whose fault it is and in West Virginia.
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Speaker 5: If if a person is it didn't used to be
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Speaker 5: this way. Let's let you're changed it ten years ago,
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Speaker 5: maybe maybe a little more recent than that. But if
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Speaker 5: if you're fifty percent at fault or less, then you
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Speaker 5: can recover from the other party. Oh but let's say
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Speaker 5: your damages were ten thousand dollars. Then the jury doesn't
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Speaker 5: do it, but on the back end, after the verdict
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Speaker 5: comes out, the judge will then say, Okay, the jury
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Speaker 5: said dale's fifty percent at fault. He's got ten thousand
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Speaker 5: dollars in damages. That's what the jury awarded, and that's
9:02
Speaker 5: supposed to be regardless of fault. So they decide fault,
9:07
Speaker 5: and then they go and decide what how bad you
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Speaker 5: were hurt, for example, Then the judge will go on
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Speaker 5: the back end and he or she will reduce that
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Speaker 5: ten thousand dollars by fifty percent because it was fifty
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Speaker 5: percent your fault as well. And that's how it works.
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Speaker 5: It used to be forty nine percent you had to
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Speaker 5: be you would not recover anything if you were fifty
9:25
Speaker 5: percent at fault. They changed that by one percentage. It
9:29
Speaker 5: was a part of another aspect of the law that
9:33
Speaker 5: adjusted some liability issues when there's more than one party
9:37
Speaker 5: at fault called joint and several liability. But that's how
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Speaker 5: it works, so it's it's I mean, you can't, you know,
9:44
Speaker 5: to get black box data off a normal vehicle, you
9:46
Speaker 5: got it, you have to have an expert download it.
9:49
Speaker 5: It turns out some raw data that's got to be interpreted.
9:51
Speaker 5: So he just don't go and do it in every case.
9:54
Speaker 5: It doesn't warrant it, and you generally don't need to
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Speaker 5: do it necessarily unless there's some dispute as to liab ability.
10:00
Speaker 5: But it gives a lot of useful information. I mean,
10:02
Speaker 5: tell which way the steering wheels turned, the speed of
10:06
Speaker 5: the vehicle, whether the brick lights were pressed, things like that.
10:12
Speaker 5: So you can get a lot of a lot of
10:13
Speaker 5: good data from it if you can track the vehicle
10:16
Speaker 5: down and get that download. But Tesla had I don't
10:18
Speaker 5: know about any other vehicles that they if they have
10:21
Speaker 5: that camera option, but I know the Tesla does because
10:23
Speaker 5: I've experienced it handle the case for a client.
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Speaker 4: It's very interesting. I've just from casual observation. I don't
10:29
Speaker 4: have any data to back it up, but I live
10:31
Speaker 4: over in Kanas City, and of course they've been underneath
10:33
Speaker 4: that construction of there for years and years, and I
10:36
Speaker 4: feel that in the town that people have lost all
10:38
Speaker 4: patients for it. And so what you see is a
10:40
Speaker 4: lot of red lights being ran. I mean not near Yabos,
10:44
Speaker 4: but people it's already turned to red, and people are like,
10:46
Speaker 4: it's been a second, I'm going to go ahead and go.
10:48
Speaker 4: And I've started treating every just green right as a stoplight.
10:52
Speaker 4: I stop and look both directions, and I think personally
10:55
Speaker 4: that there's probably been a handful of times it's probably saved,
10:57
Speaker 4: if not an accident, at least somebody locking up wheels
10:59
Speaker 4: or something like that. I mean, it's kind of tangerous.
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Speaker 5: Maybe good to know, and people are listening, probably already
11:06
Speaker 5: know this, but you know, it's kind of a pet
11:08
Speaker 5: peeve of mine when I see it. But you know,
11:09
Speaker 5: when the traffic lights are out, we've had some power
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Speaker 5: out is lately. Those intersections are supposed to, as I
11:15
Speaker 5: understand it, they're to turn to four way stops right,
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Speaker 5: and it doesn't matter if you're the primary route as
11:21
Speaker 5: you see it and you're speeding along, you're supposed to
11:24
Speaker 5: stop and treat it like a four way and I
11:26
Speaker 5: always trying to. I mean, if there's nobody around, I
11:28
Speaker 5: guess it makes no difference. But yeah, for everybody out there,
11:32
Speaker 5: you're supposed to stop when the when the traffic lights
11:35
Speaker 5: are out in an intersection and treat it like a
11:36
Speaker 5: four way stop. Whoever gets there first, goes first. And
11:40
Speaker 5: then if it's the same time, you look to your right.
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Speaker 5: And obviously that doesn't work if everybody's there because it
11:44
Speaker 5: keeps going in a circle. Right, But that's that's the
11:48
Speaker 5: law as I understand it, and that I haven't had
11:50
Speaker 5: any cases involved in that, but you know, we've had
11:52
Speaker 5: some power outage as lately. And I guess you know
11:55
Speaker 5: when you got two lanes going the same direction and
11:57
Speaker 5: I'm in the right lane, I'll pull up to stop
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Speaker 5: and all of a sudden, here come boom, somebody just
12:00
Speaker 5: speeding by me on the last everybody's I think, extra cautious,
12:04
Speaker 5: which is why you don't see very many collisions in
12:07
Speaker 5: that situation. You don't have very many situations where normal
12:10
Speaker 5: traffic lights out as well. And then blinking yellow, of
12:13
Speaker 5: course is caution, but you can proceed through. Blinking red.
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Speaker 5: If it's out is stop. You have to stop and
12:20
Speaker 5: the other direction has the right way, because sometimes the
12:23
Speaker 5: lights won't be out, they'll just be dysfunctioned, so you'll
12:25
Speaker 5: have one direction flashing yellow or caution, the other direction
12:31
Speaker 5: flashing red and yellow can proceed with caution, and red's
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Speaker 5: supposed to treat it just like a stop sign basically
12:37
Speaker 5: when those are are flashing.
12:38
Speaker 4: So you can put the vower paid on your side
12:40
Speaker 4: this morning. If you want to give us a call,
12:41
Speaker 4: thom is taking your. Questions at threes are A four
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Speaker 4: three four two eight one three one. Threes are A
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Speaker 4: four three four two eight one three one. Welcome to
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Speaker 4: call in this morning and ask any questions you want
12:49
Speaker 4: if you want to get the law on your side
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Speaker 4: this morning. You can also send in a text message
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Speaker 4: if time restraints or maybe anonymity, you can also text in.
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Speaker 4: Questions to threes are A four nonin three five five
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Speaker 4: zero you're eighth. Threes are four non three five five
13:02
Speaker 4: zero zero eight. Lots of stuff going on. There's a
13:06
Speaker 4: news around the state.
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Speaker 5: There is tons of news. The legislature's back swearing, swearing
13:10
Speaker 5: some of their members in and actually we're staying pretty busy.
13:13
Speaker 5: I've got to do a closing this morning, a rather
13:14
Speaker 5: complicated one than heading to Shepherdstown, so I will not
13:18
Speaker 5: be taking the Tesla to Shepherdstown.
13:20
Speaker 4: Tell everybody who you.
13:21
Speaker 5: Know just curious about electric I love my Tesla. You know,
13:24
Speaker 5: eleven Tays Valley. I mostly go from Nitro and back
13:26
Speaker 5: and forth. You don't have to get oil changes, very
13:28
Speaker 5: little maintenance. Right, it's got a lot of pickup. It'll
13:32
Speaker 5: go from the oh yeah, right, it'll beat most fuel
13:35
Speaker 5: injected vehicles, uh from zero to sixty, which you know,
13:38
Speaker 5: I'm not a big speed person. Oh it burns tires
13:41
Speaker 5: because it's all well drive. But problem with it with
13:44
Speaker 5: electric vehicles as I see it right now, like I
13:46
Speaker 5: have gas powered vehicles as well. We'll take our for
13:49
Speaker 5: erunner to Shepherdstown this afternoon because it just you can
13:52
Speaker 5: get there, but you'll stop two or three times and
13:54
Speaker 5: have to charge for anywhere from thirty minutes to an
13:58
Speaker 5: hour to get sufficient charge. And and there's no fumes,
14:01
Speaker 5: so you don't want to run it down to zero
14:03
Speaker 5: you're Stuck's got a toe somewhere and then find it
14:06
Speaker 5: a charger somewhere along the way. So that's the I
14:09
Speaker 5: didn't buy it for any real environmental reason. I just
14:12
Speaker 5: wanted to get electric car and I thought I would
14:14
Speaker 5: try it out five years ago and I really like it.
14:17
Speaker 5: But you really need a gas powered car for those
14:21
Speaker 5: longer distance at least what I do where I don't
14:23
Speaker 5: want to spend you know, I don't want to turn it.
14:24
Speaker 5: It's already going to be what close to six hours
14:26
Speaker 5: to get to Shepherd's town, and it would turn it
14:29
Speaker 5: into like an eight hour trip if you if you
14:31
Speaker 5: drive Tesla.
14:32
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, that the technology will get there of it, Well,
14:34
Speaker 4: that's the problem.
14:35
Speaker 5: You either need to be able to charge a lot faster.
14:37
Speaker 5: If you could pull in and charge your Tesla in
14:40
Speaker 5: ten minutes, that's really not any different than pumping the
14:43
Speaker 5: tanking caracks or fifteen minutes even, or if you had
14:47
Speaker 5: batteries that were as compact as they are now, that
14:51
Speaker 5: could store a lot more energy. If you can get
14:53
Speaker 5: a thousand miles out of it, or even five hundred,
14:56
Speaker 5: really five hundred like driving in the year as we
14:59
Speaker 5: do not on a car treadmill, then that will that
15:02
Speaker 5: will make electric vehicles much nicer, and I think people
15:06
Speaker 5: would like them. There's just less maintenance and I don't
15:09
Speaker 5: know about the pollution factor because you are carbon because
15:12
Speaker 5: and you pull in all the things, you use a
15:14
Speaker 5: lithium in the batteries and YadA YadA, I don't know
15:16
Speaker 5: about that analysis.
15:17
Speaker 4: Yeah. The interesting thing is, and I think not that
15:19
Speaker 4: this is a topic that we want to discuss much,
15:22
Speaker 4: but just in I find your case to be very
15:25
Speaker 4: compelling as a neutral case because you just wanted to
15:27
Speaker 4: buy one to see what it was like, and so
15:28
Speaker 4: you're kind of appraisal of it is. It's useful in
15:31
Speaker 4: a lot of situations. Really like it. It does what
15:32
Speaker 4: it's supposed to do. However, the distance anxiety is a
15:35
Speaker 4: real thing, you know. I mean that's what people talk
15:37
Speaker 4: about a lot of times, and a lot of people
15:39
Speaker 4: that really try to push evs are like, oh, it's
15:41
Speaker 4: not really How often do you really need to go
15:42
Speaker 4: over three hundred miles or you know, whatever it is
15:44
Speaker 4: when you do, what are you gonna do?
15:46
Speaker 5: You a good example? I mean, I like it's got
15:48
Speaker 5: the self driving capability too, which was over sold because
15:51
Speaker 5: I think you can get super crews on most cars
15:53
Speaker 5: now that is almost just as good. But you know,
15:57
Speaker 5: I thought, well that would be good to go to
15:58
Speaker 5: mountaineer games. Mountaineer game like a basketball game of the evening.
16:01
Speaker 5: You gotta drive back, and you're tired, and you know,
16:04
Speaker 5: if you happen to doze a little bit, the self
16:07
Speaker 5: you gotta pay attention. But the self driving will control
16:09
Speaker 5: it enough so that you don't have a wreck or
16:11
Speaker 5: a real problem. But you know, I piled three of
16:15
Speaker 5: my friends in the Tesla one day to drive to
16:18
Speaker 5: Morgantown and thought, well, if you got to get to back,
16:21
Speaker 5: then the supercharger was at the Buchanan exit. I was
16:25
Speaker 5: looking at the It's just like your phone. It'll it'll
16:27
Speaker 5: tell you how much energy you have or how many
16:29
Speaker 5: miles you cant I put it on the miles. Well, geez,
16:32
Speaker 5: we get going. And I'm like, oh, with all this
16:34
Speaker 5: extra weight in the car because of the I have
16:36
Speaker 5: not judges correctly. And Gasolina anxiety is one thing. You
16:41
Speaker 5: can go get a you can put your thumb out
16:43
Speaker 5: and get a tank of gas anywhere. But you run
16:45
Speaker 5: your Tesla out I mean you go and plug in
16:47
Speaker 5: a regular one ten or one, you know, regular outlet.
16:51
Speaker 5: It only charges like four or five miles per hour,
16:55
Speaker 5: so you're not gonna getting very far. So you have
16:57
Speaker 5: to call a tow truck. And just so when you
17:00
Speaker 5: said anxiety, I just thought about that because I was thinking, oh,
17:02
Speaker 5: we've got I mean, I was really like, we were
17:03
Speaker 5: down to ten miles left or something. We made it.
17:06
Speaker 5: But just that extra weight of maybe two more people
17:09
Speaker 5: than I normally have in my vehicle, you know, created
17:13
Speaker 5: a problem with with my mathematical godcail.
17:16
Speaker 4: Yeah, and imagine imagine if you had, like, you know,
17:18
Speaker 4: you'd have to tell you, like you're heavier friends, that
17:20
Speaker 4: I can't give your ride or we don't have the distance.
17:22
Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, that's yeah, there's the distance. Anxiety is
17:26
Speaker 4: a real thing.
17:26
Speaker 5: Yeah. And the reason I'm going to Shepherdstown. I guess
17:28
Speaker 5: where I was going with that a bit is you know,
17:29
Speaker 5: I'm on the State Bar Board of Governors. So we
17:31
Speaker 5: have our quarterly meeting tomorrow, so we're going to drive
17:35
Speaker 5: up and attend that and see what's going on with
17:38
Speaker 5: the State Bar. We do things like approved the budget
17:40
Speaker 5: of various legal agencies and and things like that. And
17:45
Speaker 5: it's the licensing board for the for the No, we
17:47
Speaker 5: don't do disciplinary matters, but it's you know, when you
17:50
Speaker 5: become a lawyer to license to practice law, then you
17:54
Speaker 5: have to be licensed by the state Bar entity. And
17:57
Speaker 5: so we meet. I'm elected Base one regional, so I'm
18:01
Speaker 5: District four, which is Puttnam, Mace and Clay, Roan and
18:07
Speaker 5: Jack's all up and represent those folks at the state
18:10
Speaker 5: bar meeting tomorrow. But drive up tonight since the meetings
18:14
Speaker 5: early afternoon. It's a six hour drive or so. But yeah,
18:18
Speaker 5: back to the UH and thinking of the Eastern Panhandle.
18:21
Speaker 5: I think this delegate was from there, if I recall correctly.
18:25
Speaker 5: But anyway, they were swearing in the new the legislature yesterday.
18:29
Speaker 5: And one of interesting things. Actually, last time I was here,
18:32
Speaker 5: I think was when it was breaking news there was
18:35
Speaker 5: a person who was elected to the it was the
18:38
Speaker 5: Senate or the House, I can't remember, but it was
18:40
Speaker 5: this DeSoto thinks how you say his last name? And
18:42
Speaker 5: he had unfortunately, he had been in Charleston for some
18:45
Speaker 5: meetings or something, and he had had a breakdown and
18:48
Speaker 5: was allegedly, you know, threatening other members of the legislature,
18:52
Speaker 5: like to the point where those legislators had to call
18:55
Speaker 5: their families and move them out of the homes and
18:57
Speaker 5: things like that. And then he I mean threatened to
19:00
Speaker 5: do bodily harm to him, as I understand. So then
19:02
Speaker 5: he was charged with a crime. So he's still elected, though,
19:05
Speaker 5: I mean, he just hasn't He wasn't an incumbent, so
19:08
Speaker 5: he was going to be a new member of the legislature.
19:11
Speaker 5: So yesterday, of course, I don't think I think most
19:15
Speaker 5: of the legislators, at least the ones that were in
19:18
Speaker 5: the media, you know, don't think he's competent to operate
19:21
Speaker 5: as a member of the legislature at this point based
19:23
Speaker 5: on what happened. At least I guess there's some objective
19:26
Speaker 5: evidence that he did what he's accused of doing, but
19:30
Speaker 5: how do you resolve that he's an elected official impeachment
19:33
Speaker 5: or what so, Uh, yesterday was the time to be
19:37
Speaker 5: sworn in, although so he does not appear at the
19:41
Speaker 5: legislature yesterday. Others didn't appear as well, and so they
19:45
Speaker 5: weren't sworn in. But there's a constitutional provision that says
19:49
Speaker 5: if if a delegate, remember the Senate, refuses to be
19:54
Speaker 5: sworn in, then they're I think disqualified or they're removed
20:00
Speaker 5: essence from office. So they used that tool yesterday in
20:03
Speaker 5: the legislature to claim that because he had refused because
20:07
Speaker 5: he wasn't there right, he had refused to be sworn in,
20:11
Speaker 5: and I think that's a that's a real stretch. And
20:14
Speaker 5: what I read was that he's on bond. He was
20:16
Speaker 5: able to, I think, get out on bond, which is
20:19
Speaker 5: just you know, some amount of money he's posted or
20:23
Speaker 5: other conditions to secure the fact he will attend future
20:25
Speaker 5: hearings in his criminal case. Ordinarily, bond conditions almost universally,
20:30
Speaker 5: they don't prevent you from leaving the county in which
20:32
Speaker 5: you're charged. You by default a lot of times it
20:35
Speaker 5: will say don't leave the state because if you leave
20:37
Speaker 5: the state then and run off and they got to
20:39
Speaker 5: do an extradition proceeding and that kind of thing. So however,
20:44
Speaker 5: as I understood it, one of his conditions of bond
20:47
Speaker 5: was that he'd be on home confinement, which used to
20:49
Speaker 5: be an anklet and you had to have a landline
20:51
Speaker 5: in your house because it would do a radius so
20:53
Speaker 5: far out, like into your yard. Now, I think they
20:55
Speaker 5: have GPS equipment that they can really track exactly where
20:59
Speaker 5: you are all the time. But when you're on home confinement,
21:02
Speaker 5: almost universally there as well, you meet with the home
21:04
Speaker 5: confinement officer in there. It doesn't mean you have to
21:06
Speaker 5: stay in your home all the time. You can lead
21:08
Speaker 5: their exemptions medical care, usually church work, if you have
21:12
Speaker 5: a real job, and so I would think that. I mean,
21:17
Speaker 5: I don't know why he wasn't there yesterday to get
21:20
Speaker 5: sworn in, but I don't know that terming at a
21:24
Speaker 5: refusal is proper, And so there's a lot of debate
21:26
Speaker 5: about that. Now there's underlying I think everybody agrees that
21:31
Speaker 5: if what he was accused of doing happened, he shouldn't
21:33
Speaker 5: be a member of the legislature. But here's what I
21:37
Speaker 5: understand also happened. He got elected as a Republican, and
21:40
Speaker 5: sometime between the election and yesterday he switched parties to
21:44
Speaker 5: the Democratic Party.
21:45
Speaker 4: I think was literally the day after the charges were firing.
21:47
Speaker 5: Okay, So, and this came up a few years ago,
21:50
Speaker 5: and I can't remember the law on it for sure,
21:51
Speaker 5: and it may have been modified by the legislature. But
21:55
Speaker 5: I think because he is now a member of the
21:58
Speaker 5: Democratic Party, if he is removed or resigns from office,
22:02
Speaker 5: I think then the the person who pointed to replace
22:07
Speaker 5: him has to be from the same party he's currently
22:10
Speaker 5: registered with. I think that's the law. But I think
22:12
Speaker 5: that's why there were issues yesterday, because if he doesn't
22:16
Speaker 5: get even sworn in, then I think the Republicans get
22:21
Speaker 5: to pick his replacement. Now, if he's actually sworn in
22:24
Speaker 5: as a member of the legislature and he's now a Democrat,
22:27
Speaker 5: and I think the idea is that then the Democrats
22:30
Speaker 5: will get to pick the replacement.
22:33
Speaker 4: I get this is just me talking. I get the
22:35
Speaker 4: conflict there, but it's such a I mean, how many
22:37
Speaker 4: legislators do you have that are even Democrats in this state.
22:40
Speaker 4: It's such a tainted seat at this point. I don't
22:41
Speaker 4: know that I would even fight for it. I mean,
22:43
Speaker 4: what's one vote going to give you? I mean, honestly,
22:45
Speaker 4: I mean, that's one vote going to get you. One
22:46
Speaker 4: of the things I find interesting about this because you
22:48
Speaker 4: bring this up and always find it fascinating when you
22:50
Speaker 4: talk about like vegue languages and law and stuff like that.
22:53
Speaker 4: This isn't even a case necessarily where refuses to take
22:57
Speaker 4: his oath. This isn't even a case where that's really
22:59
Speaker 4: all that vague. They're just sort of recasting what that means.
23:03
Speaker 4: I personally find that a little problematic, because what couldn't
23:06
Speaker 4: refuse mean, well.
23:07
Speaker 5: There was, and then there's in the metronews articles. You know,
23:10
Speaker 5: there's some quotes about it, and and you know it's
23:15
Speaker 5: I think Sean flu Hardy was asking, which I think
23:17
Speaker 5: he's a Democrat. I believe we did. Was he given
23:21
Speaker 5: the opportunity to be sworn in? Was he asked if
23:23
Speaker 5: he wants to be sworn in? And kind of an
23:26
Speaker 5: off hand response by the Senate President I think was
23:32
Speaker 5: what called the prisoner and ask or something like that,
23:34
Speaker 5: which I thought was inappropriate response. But so they didn't.
23:39
Speaker 5: They wouldn't. He didn't answer the question when that was asked,
23:42
Speaker 5: because others did not appear there yesterday either, and they're not.
23:46
Speaker 5: It's not presumed they refused to take the oath. I
23:49
Speaker 5: assume you can come to Charleston take another time. And
23:52
Speaker 5: it seemed to be portrayed by the leadership that he
23:58
Speaker 5: couldn't come to the legislature and therefore he refused, which
24:03
Speaker 5: I mean, if you're in, if you're incarcerated, you're kind
24:05
Speaker 5: of incompetent to handle certain things, and so legally incompetent
24:09
Speaker 5: doesn't mean you have mental health issues, and maybe that would,
24:12
Speaker 5: but I don't know that you could say that he
24:14
Speaker 5: refused certainly wouldn't have been voluntarily and then I so
24:19
Speaker 5: we'll see how that falls out. I don't I don't
24:21
Speaker 5: know whether DeSoto wants to a seat or not. We
24:24
Speaker 5: don't really know the answer to that. I do think
24:26
Speaker 5: that based on what I read, he's not in prison
24:31
Speaker 5: right now as I understand it. He's posted. He wouldn't
24:33
Speaker 5: be in prison anyway, being a jail. You know, prisons
24:35
Speaker 5: are where you get sentenced for felonies in West Virginia,
24:38
Speaker 5: unless you're in the federal system, that's different. And as
24:40
Speaker 5: you're awaiting, uh your trial, if you're held and can't
24:45
Speaker 5: post bond, you're in at one of the regional jails,
24:47
Speaker 5: and it's completely Those are short term housing and things
24:51
Speaker 5: like that. But my O just thing is he posted bond,
24:53
Speaker 5: he's on home confinement, and that in almost all circumstances
24:58
Speaker 5: really wouldn't prevent him from travel if he got permission
25:03
Speaker 5: to the legislature in Charleston just to be sworn in.
25:06
Speaker 5: So we'll see whether there's any commentary on that. I mean,
25:10
Speaker 5: he can he can voluntarily resign his position too, of course,
25:13
Speaker 5: and maybe he may try and manipulate that process to
25:17
Speaker 5: determine whether it's a Republican or a Democrat that replaces him.
25:19
Speaker 5: I don't know. We'll see how that plays out, saying
25:22
Speaker 5: he refused. If somebody wants to challenge that, I think
25:25
Speaker 5: that's open. That's uh, that's a they'd have a prima
25:28
Speaker 5: faith share at least a good faith argument that that's
25:30
Speaker 5: not really the proper way to handle this situation.
25:34
Speaker 4: Routing the definition of words over time, especially from a
25:36
Speaker 4: legal standpoint, just seems dangerous to me.
25:38
Speaker 5: And I don't know that's that's a stretch. That's a
25:40
Speaker 5: stretch for sure by the legislature, but it's you know,
25:43
Speaker 5: nobody takes any action on it. Then I guess it
25:45
Speaker 5: wouldn't necessarily have to be him. Somebody else might have
25:48
Speaker 5: enough of an interest to have standing to challenge it,
25:50
Speaker 5: maybe the Democratic Party or something. If if they, if
25:53
Speaker 5: he gets sworn in and then is removed, they could
25:55
Speaker 5: replace the question.
25:57
Speaker 4: We'll take a break after this and I'll kind of
25:58
Speaker 4: wrap this up because I don't mean to get too
26:00
Speaker 4: far down this rabbit hole. But the problem I have
26:01
Speaker 4: with it is if this is accepted this time, then
26:04
Speaker 4: the next time something comes along where there's some vague
26:07
Speaker 4: area does that create a precedent where it's like, well,
26:09
Speaker 4: remember the time that we did it on this and
26:11
Speaker 4: that was considered that he refused to show up. So
26:13
Speaker 4: this is just like that case, although it may be
26:15
Speaker 4: a completely different circumstances. Refuse could be recast yet again
26:18
Speaker 4: and then ten years later again and again, and then
26:20
Speaker 4: suddenly you just don't see people you don't want.
26:23
Speaker 5: That's right. If they don't make it to the they're
26:25
Speaker 5: in person the first day, then did they refuse it?
26:28
Speaker 5: And that's what Yeah, well what about the other people
26:30
Speaker 5: that didn't make it yesterday for whatever reason, and they're
26:34
Speaker 5: not saying they refused. So it's only a difference the
26:37
Speaker 5: fact that this fellow is in charge with the crime
26:39
Speaker 5: and is on home confinement. I think there is a
26:42
Speaker 5: different process to remove someone in that situation, as opposed
26:47
Speaker 5: to just saying because they didn't show up on the first
26:49
Speaker 5: day of the swearing in that they refuse to show up.
26:52
Speaker 5: I think they're on questionable legal ground there.
26:54
Speaker 4: I guess you would say, very interesting. If you have
26:57
Speaker 4: questions this morning, you can talk about this if you
26:58
Speaker 4: want to. But if you have a question where you
27:00
Speaker 4: want to put the law on your side, Tom Payton
27:01
Speaker 4: from the Payton Law Firm is here to help you out.
27:03
Speaker 4: Guess call this one in three zero four, three four
27:04
Speaker 4: two eight one three one three four two eight one
27:06
Speaker 4: three one has to talk to Tom Payton. When ask the expert,
27:09
Speaker 4: we'll get you right back here. You can also find
27:10
Speaker 4: out more information online. It's Paytent Lawfirm dot com, Payton
27:13
Speaker 4: Lawfirm dot com. That's Pey two and Payton Lawfirm dot com.
27:16
Speaker 4: Eletro West Virginia will give you more information one week.
27:18
Speaker 4: Come back. We'll take a break and be back right
27:20
Speaker 4: after this. Three zero four three four two eight one
27:21
Speaker 4: three one where you can text three zero four non
27:24
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27:26
Speaker 4: You're listening to ask the lawyer with the Payton Law Firm.
27:28
Speaker 4: Thom is here. I'm Del Cooper on five ADWCHS, the
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29:24
Speaker 5: Then and give us a call here or the other
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Speaker 5: thing you can do if you have a question, don't
29:28
Speaker 5: have time or want to call in on the radio.
29:30
Speaker 5: Of course you can call the office, but really if
29:31
Speaker 5: you just have a general inquiry, every one to touch base,
29:35
Speaker 5: going through our website, send an email is a great
29:37
Speaker 5: way to do it. And we've been talking little politics
29:40
Speaker 5: and of course electric vehicles this morning. But what we
29:42
Speaker 5: really do at Peyton Law Firm kind of our bread
29:44
Speaker 5: and butters civil litigation, mostly for consumers and regular people.
29:49
Speaker 5: Small business work too, but people have been harmed in
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Speaker 5: some way there physically or financially. A lot of automobile
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Speaker 5: accident cases where people are hurt, insurance denials do some
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Speaker 5: disability claims. We also we don't advertise for a lot.
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Speaker 5: We do some criminal defense and general practice boundary line disputes,
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Speaker 5: a lot actually a lot of state litigation folks that
30:10
Speaker 5: it just seems like we've seen a lot more of
30:12
Speaker 5: that lately and almost and we do some basic estate planning,
30:16
Speaker 5: and I would urge you to if you're thinking about
30:20
Speaker 5: doing some estate planning, meaning getting some basic wills done
30:23
Speaker 5: or maybe some power of attorneys, that you see an
30:25
Speaker 5: attorney and do it and don't use forms. Same thing
30:28
Speaker 5: in relation to real estate transactions, which I'm getting ready
30:30
Speaker 5: to handle one this morning. That's a little bit complicated,
30:35
Speaker 5: but some folks did some of it themselves, and it
30:38
Speaker 5: can just can create a real mess because when you
30:41
Speaker 5: might do it something that is a deed, but if
30:44
Speaker 5: you don't word it right and it gets recorded, then
30:49
Speaker 5: it can just create a real legal mess later because
30:51
Speaker 5: it probably did something with the title of the property
30:53
Speaker 5: just might not have done what you wanted. And that
30:55
Speaker 5: same deal, that same concept applies to like form wills
30:59
Speaker 5: and things like that, just don't without competent consultation with
31:04
Speaker 5: an attorney. So you know how assets pass, For example,
31:08
Speaker 5: when you pass away is it going to even go
31:10
Speaker 5: by your will, or have you set it up with
31:12
Speaker 5: some kind of ownership or beneficiary designation that your will
31:14
Speaker 5: won't control it, and then that money's not going to
31:16
Speaker 5: be there to fund things that you put in your will.
31:18
Speaker 5: Things like that you get from consulting with us, and
31:21
Speaker 5: we charge a reasonable fee for basic a state planning
31:25
Speaker 5: and real estate work. So if you're you know, if
31:27
Speaker 5: you have any assets at all, or you're buying property
31:29
Speaker 5: for any amount of money at all, you really ought
31:31
Speaker 5: to see a lawyer and get that done, because ninety
31:35
Speaker 5: percent of the litigation I get involved in with a
31:37
Speaker 5: state or real estate is where folks have not seen
31:41
Speaker 5: they've tried to do things on their own, and they've
31:43
Speaker 5: done it well enough that it is a deed and
31:45
Speaker 5: can be recorded, or they've done it well enough that
31:47
Speaker 5: it is a will under the statute, but when you
31:52
Speaker 5: read the language, it creates a mess because they didn't
31:55
Speaker 5: understand how to word it so that it can be
31:59
Speaker 5: put into effect early. And so I would encourage you
32:03
Speaker 5: to contact conduct us, but conduct an attorney if you
32:07
Speaker 5: need any estate planning or real estate work done, rather
32:09
Speaker 5: than trying to do self help stuff and doing it
32:12
Speaker 5: on your own.
32:12
Speaker 4: Have you ran into any problems with people trying to
32:14
Speaker 4: use AI yet for stuff like this? I have not.
32:19
Speaker 5: We're going to see. I've heard of there's issues with
32:22
Speaker 5: lawyers using it. There's been a couple of cases where
32:25
Speaker 5: lawyers have used AI to write legal briefs and which
32:30
Speaker 5: is fine, and then submit it. And there's one particular
32:33
Speaker 5: case that's I know of. It was probably a year
32:35
Speaker 5: ago or maybe a little more even, and the lawyer
32:38
Speaker 5: used AI to do a brief. Well, when you do
32:39
Speaker 5: a brief, you cite cases precedent, you know, like, well
32:42
Speaker 5: this this court ruled this way, so you should rule
32:44
Speaker 5: this way. And got to the hearing and I guess
32:48
Speaker 5: the oposing counsels like, well, I can't find these two
32:50
Speaker 5: cases anywhere, and the judge said, well, my law clerk
32:53
Speaker 5: can't find these two cases that you cite it anywhere. Well,
32:56
Speaker 5: the lawyer used AI, didn't bought it to go back,
32:59
Speaker 5: because sometimes just seeing it, you'll see string citations of cases,
33:03
Speaker 5: like maybe there's just five cases on a row and
33:05
Speaker 5: just cite them all and if you if you know
33:11
Speaker 5: what they say, or you read a real case that
33:13
Speaker 5: references them, you can reliably cite them. But this lawyer
33:17
Speaker 5: hadn't gone back and checked that each of the cases
33:20
Speaker 5: that were cited, you know, they cited to books with
33:22
Speaker 5: page book and page number, and hadn't gone back to
33:26
Speaker 5: verify those cases actually exist. And AI had created or
33:31
Speaker 5: you know, you never know about I don't know how
33:33
Speaker 5: it happened. Obviously, AI learns, I mean, we don't completely
33:36
Speaker 5: understand artificial intelligence as.
33:38
Speaker 4: It applies delusions of some kind.
33:40
Speaker 5: Well, yeah, it learns from different things. So it may
33:42
Speaker 5: have seen a let's say a law school had a
33:46
Speaker 5: mock trial or a fake scenario for an appellet advocacy
33:51
Speaker 5: class or something. It could have found cases that were
33:54
Speaker 5: dummy cases created for that purpose online somewhere and it's
33:58
Speaker 5: mega database. However, it gets data for AI, and then
34:01
Speaker 5: you cited those cases in this brief. But the lawyer
34:03
Speaker 5: got sanctioned. I mean it was. But there's a there's
34:06
Speaker 5: there's it's coming around, There's there's some ethical opinions coming
34:09
Speaker 5: out on it. It's gonna have to be addressed. It
34:12
Speaker 5: shouldn't affect what we do a whole lot.
34:16
Speaker 4: There's like modules like chat GPT for example, has a
34:18
Speaker 4: module that will help you write your will and it
34:21
Speaker 4: will help you do your state planning and different things
34:23
Speaker 4: like that. And I'm wondering what kind of problems that's
34:24
Speaker 4: going to lead to where it doesn't get things state
34:27
Speaker 4: to state right and different things like that.
34:28
Speaker 5: I'm really sure and it's not gonna well, I've AI
34:32
Speaker 5: is being forced upon us. So you know, I have
34:35
Speaker 5: a search engine I used to look up cases and
34:37
Speaker 5: other legal authorities, and it's now got an AI assistant
34:40
Speaker 5: that you cannot delete. So there's always a little block
34:43
Speaker 5: at the top, like analysis, and it takes about ten
34:45
Speaker 5: seconds worth to pop up, and it tells your stuff,
34:47
Speaker 5: and it's it's not right. It's not well, I mean
34:49
Speaker 5: a lot of times it's right. Generally. That's it's kind
34:52
Speaker 5: of like googling something and trying to play lawyer, like
34:56
Speaker 5: it gives you enough to be dangerous, but doesn't. Each
35:01
Speaker 5: factional scenario is a little bit different and so it
35:04
Speaker 5: doesn't pick up those nuances. And so you're right, it
35:07
Speaker 5: might not pick up the right or you can even
35:08
Speaker 5: say draft me a will in West Virginia and see
35:11
Speaker 5: what it pops up. But it's not. It's almost like
35:15
Speaker 5: getting a form is all it really is going to
35:17
Speaker 5: be and it just saves you the time of printing
35:20
Speaker 5: off a form.
35:21
Speaker 4: I see, it's okay sometimes, but this now, this was
35:23
Speaker 4: a couple of years ago. But I've I've stumbled across
35:25
Speaker 4: these delusions very early because I was running some tests.
35:27
Speaker 4: I was going to do some a bit for hotline basically,
35:29
Speaker 4: and so I had to to do a history of
35:31
Speaker 4: West Virginia basketball WU basketball, and so I was going
35:33
Speaker 4: to kind of create a bit out of it. It
35:35
Speaker 4: did a fantastic history of w basketball, created an essay.
35:38
Speaker 4: It was amazing, especially talking about the All American stud
35:43
Speaker 4: that played at West Virginia, Randy Moss for their basketball team. Right,
35:46
Speaker 4: and it created it fabricated an entire basketball career for
35:49
Speaker 4: Randy Moss at WVU.
35:51
Speaker 5: Right It I mean things like that, for example, it
35:57
Speaker 5: can save time and I guess from a legal standpoint
36:00
Speaker 5: from lawyers using it, I mean, I don't know that
36:02
Speaker 5: it's a problem to get a framework for what you're
36:05
Speaker 5: working on, but it needs you need to needs to
36:08
Speaker 5: be all your in work beyond that and or else
36:10
Speaker 5: you're going to get in trouble. And that's what we've
36:12
Speaker 5: seen happening. And and I see it as far as
36:14
Speaker 5: lay non lawyers trying to use it. It's no different
36:16
Speaker 5: than going to get formed somewhere. So I would I
36:19
Speaker 5: would counsel against it, but we'll see how it plays
36:21
Speaker 5: out in the legal field. I mean, it won't affect
36:24
Speaker 5: our work because of what we do. It's just too
36:26
Speaker 5: personal and uh, it's one on one and we pay
36:30
Speaker 5: more particular attention to We don't do big court. But
36:31
Speaker 5: if you have a you know, just Microsoft, any multi
36:36
Speaker 5: billion dollar company, I mean they're legal bills for just
36:39
Speaker 5: doing contracts and things like that. It's probably millions and
36:43
Speaker 5: millions of dollars. Well, here comes a big law firm
36:46
Speaker 5: and says, well, listen, we can do this for one
36:48
Speaker 5: million dollars because they're going to start using AI to
36:52
Speaker 5: do the base work that drafts me a contract. Here
36:56
Speaker 5: are the details. And instead of a lawyer or a
36:59
Speaker 5: pair of legal spending ten to twelve hours doing that
37:02
Speaker 5: at three hundred hours, three hundred dollars an hour, and
37:05
Speaker 5: you got AATICT and spit something out in a minute, right,
37:08
Speaker 5: and and then they shouldn't use that. But they've already
37:11
Speaker 5: got that legwork done. So it's gonna be enticing for
37:15
Speaker 5: large corporations with big legal bills just for their everyday
37:19
Speaker 5: operations to end law firms, maybe because they're you know,
37:24
Speaker 5: uh to start using it. So we'll see how that
37:26
Speaker 5: plays out.
37:26
Speaker 3: In the future.
37:27
Speaker 4: Payton Lawfirm dot com. Paytonlawfirm dot com Every Thursday at
37:29
Speaker 4: eight twenty right here on five ADW CHS seven five
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Speaker 4: five fifty five six. Tom thinks a bunch of man
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