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819. Leading Through Uncertainty: How to Build Confidence and Take the Next Best Step · Daily Influence

• 0:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to Daily Influence, your daily dose of positive influence.
• 0:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Brian Smith founder of IA Business Advisors and co-author of the Iain team series.
• 0:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Each day we share stories and insights to help you find be and build your influence in a positive and responsible way.
• 0:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm Greg Clino, partner at IA Business Advisors, and co-host of Daily Influence.
• 0:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Be sure to follow, subscribe, and share Daily Influence with someone who could use a little extra positivity today.
• 0:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: And make us part of your Daily routine, whether it's during your commute, on a walk, or an quiet momentous for you, because you're influenced matters.
• 0:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to Daily Influence.
• 0:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm Greculino.
• 0:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Today's guest is Erin Ramirez, founder of Real Change Studio and an executive coach, leadership strategist and facilitator who helps leaders and teams navigate change, growth and complexity and pressure.
• 1:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Before launching Real Change Studio, Erin led enterprise-wide change and leadership initiatives that affected tens of thousands of
• 1:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Her perspective has also been shaped by her experience as a noble piece scholar and her work with non-profit, educational, faith-based, and community organizations.
• 1:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: At the center of Erin's work is a powerful idea.
• 1:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Confidence does not come from knowing exactly what will happen next.
• 1:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: It comes from trusting that whatever happens, you're capable of figuring out your next step.
• 1:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: In this conversation, we'll explore adaptability, responsible influence, the leadership shadow, we each cast, and how leaders can create environments which people feel safe enough to speak honestly, take thoughtful risks, and move forward without waiting for a perfect answer.
• 2:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Erin, welcome to Daily Influence.
• 2:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much.
• 2:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: Great to be with you.
• 2:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's great to be with you as well.
• 2:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: And before founding real change studio, you led significant organizational change initiatives and also studied leadership, peace building and service as a noble peace scholar.
• 2:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: What experiences most shaped your belief that people are capable of figuring out what comes next, even when the path is uncertain.
• 2:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this has been one of the leaf that I've been working to build over time.
• 2:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: I spent a lot of my career in environments where there really was just no perfect answer.
• 2:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: Whether it was large scale organizational change, whether it was small scale, smaller team wide change.
• 2:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: People were often wondering, like, what's next?
• 2:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: What does this mean from me?
• 2:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: What comes next in these types of environments?
• 2:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: And the truthful answer that I've settled on is like, we just don't always know
• 3:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so the way that I've settled on this is that over time, we've just got to build the belief that I trust myself to respond to whatever's next.
• 3:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: We might not know what it is, but I have enough trust in myself.
• 3:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I've learned from a business from an organizational perspective that organizations really benefit when their leaders and when people throughout the organization have this belief that I can figure things out instead of waiting for someone else to tell them what to do and a great certainty for them.
• 3:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so overall I've settled on confidence isn't having certainty in the future.
• 3:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's trusting that there's a that I'm going to be able to figure it out in the future.
• 3:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like I've got my own back.
• 3:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Aaron was there a particular experience that changed the way you personally respond to uncertainty?
• 3:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, boy.
• 3:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I had a moment in my career about 10 to 12 years ago.
• 3:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: where I was very overwhelmed.
• 3:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: We had a lot of workplace change that was happening.
• 3:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: Didn't know how to handle that.
• 3:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: I was very anxious.
• 4:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I remember being at the water cooler, doing what maybe other people do and just gossiping and complaining.
• 4:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I said, gosh, you know, leaders should really leave through change better around here.
• 4:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: This isn't right.
• 4:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're all spending more time talking about the change and living in anxiety than doing our work.
• 4:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that person turned to me and said, well, Erin, you're a leader.
• 4:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: Why don't you go do something about this?
• 4:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I remember that really lit a fire and made me realize, well, I have agency.
• 4:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: I have ownership over how I respond and how I help other people respond.
• 4:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that set me down a path of really trying to understand, well, how do I better adapt uncertainty?
• 4:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then how do I help support organizations and leaders through uncertainty, too?
• 4:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: and your work suggests that leadership is not only about directing change, it is also about how people experience us while changing is happening.
• 4:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you use the phrase, leadership shadow to describe how leaders, mindsets, emotions, and behaviors affect the people around them.
• 5:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: What does that shadow look like in practice?
• 5:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: And how can leaders assess whether the environment they are creating matches the influence they intend to have?
• 5:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm always so surprised that how little we realize every single action, every single thing we say influences those around us.
• 5:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: When I'm working with leaders, I start by sharing with them something that almost looks like a dark board, where we're at the center as the leader, as an individual, and then there's a ring out of those we influence, and then a ring out of those that are influenced by our ripple effect, and I remind leaders we don't get to control anyone but ourselves.
• 5:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know for those of you out there who are parents, but as a parent, that can be really frustrating, like I cannot control my child, I can influence them.
• 5:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's the same thing with their employees with their colleagues.
• 5:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so we always start with self, how are we showing up?
• 5:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: How are we behaving?
• 5:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: How are we acting?
• 5:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I believe everything we do cast a shadow.
• 5:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so if we're in a meeting and we're answering an email on a phone,
• 6:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: We might think, while I'm answering a really important phone conversation, I really got to get back to this person.
• 6:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: That shadow that's cast, though, might be, well, this conversation isn't important enough for you.
• 6:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: What I'm talking about isn't valued.
• 6:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: When someone comes in in the morning and they run right to their desk, instead of greeting someone, the shadow that's cast is, well, maybe that person doesn't want to say good morning to me.
• 6:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not worth it.
• 6:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so everything we do influences those around us and our shadow is much greater.
• 6:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: And the line for better and for worse is that leaders have long shadows.
• 6:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so whether we like it or not, and when we're in a leadership role, everything we do cast a shadow.
• 6:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: He has certainly doesn't that distinction between intended influence and experienced influence is really important because leaders often judge themselves by their intentions while others experience their behaviors.
• 6:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 6:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Share a specific moment when changing the way a leader communicated listen or approached a difficult situation, produced a meaningful shift for an individual or a team.
• 7:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I remember a time when a leader was really making an emphasis to communicate more.
• 7:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: They had heard in a previous change that they weren't communicating enough.
• 7:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so they went out and they were sending out emails and sharing in team meetings.
• 7:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: The what was happening and the why behind why it was happening to connect with people.
• 7:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it still wasn't resonating.
• 7:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so they weren't understanding, well, I'm doing something different.
• 7:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: Why isn't it working?
• 7:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so we talked about how their communications that was still very one-sided.
• 7:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: They were communicating what they wanted to share from their perspective, and why it was important to them.
• 7:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: But hadn't put themselves in the shoes of the listeners, hadn't talked to the listeners and engaged in two-way conversation to get feedback, and that really what was needed in the moment was not more one-way communication, but it was more stopping, listening, and trying to understand.
• 7:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so asking questions, what are your concerns?
• 8:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: What are you worried about?
• 8:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: What's feeling like a hiccup for you?
• 8:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: Or causing you to pause, and then listening to that, and then responding to what was coming up so they could respond appropriately.
• 8:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so so often we try to make our shadow the right shadow, but we have to experiment.
• 8:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: I say everything's a hypothesis.
• 8:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so we might try something.
• 8:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't work.
• 8:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's okay.
• 8:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's all scientific.
• 8:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: That one didn't get the results I want.
• 8:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's okay, but I'm going to try something different to work to get the results that I want.
• 8:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, I want people on board, so I'm going to communicate differently.
• 8:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and success stories are useful, but leaders often learn more from the moments when their initial approach doesn't work.
• 8:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you often say, no matter what happens, I can figure it out.
• 8:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: What does that mean?
• 8:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: And why do you believe that mindset is so important?
• 8:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: Most of them ties in a lot with what we talked about at the beginning of the podcast, but it's really about knowing that in a world where change is speeding up, certainty is decreasing.
• 9:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of research that shows that we have less and less certainty.
• 9:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's more and more spontaneous or unexpected things happening.
• 9:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: that what we have to do is build certainty within ourselves.
• 9:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: We have to be the certainty.
• 9:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: We can't look to others.
• 9:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: We can't look to the world around us.
• 9:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so the belief that I am someone who figures it out comes with being the belief that I have the capacity to take the next step, to respond, and I trust myself to do that.
• 9:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: And you know what, sometimes it's the wrong step, right?
• 9:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: Or sometimes we still have to change directions.
• 9:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I'm not going to stay stuck in the world that's changing so quickly if we stay stuck, we're actually going backwards.
• 9:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so I'm going to be the person that keeps moving forward that takes one next step.
• 9:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: And one reason people struggle during changes that uncertainty can create pressure to find the perfect solution before taking action and you encourage people to stop waiting for the perfect answer and instead take the next step or the next best step when the leader or business owner feels stuff what practical process can they use to identify that step evaluate the risk and then move forward responsibly.
• 10:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this is a great one because I think whether you are a business owner or a leader or you're not, right, you're just a person.
• 10:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: We often do struggle with what the next step is or feeling stuck or overwhelmed and so I have a really simple three step process.
• 10:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's actually one of my keynotes right now that's pretty popular that just helps you to figure out what the next step is and the first thing is just to name what I call the solid ground.
• 10:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: get the facts out there.
• 10:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: And we think we have the facts, but when we take the time to say them at loud or to write them down, it really changes our experience.
• 10:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: And we can start to separate what are the facts and what's my interpretation, my perception of the facts.
• 10:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so that's where our story comes in.
• 10:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: I know as a business owner, right if I have a month that doesn't meet my expectations for income or revenue, sometimes they add a story to that of like, what does that mean about me or my business?
• 11:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: But when I take the time to write that down on paper or actually share what the facts are, that pulls that story out and I can really just look at the facts for what they are.
• 11:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: And from there I encourage people to start ideating to come up with solutions.
• 11:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: Our brains like to follow tunnel vision.
• 11:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: We like to come up with the easiest solution.
• 11:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that's that's very normal of us.
• 11:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: Our brains want to conserve energy.
• 11:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so how they're developed over the time from when we're children to teenagers into adulthood, we build tunnels, we build channels in our brain.
• 11:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so it's easy to come up with one or two or three solutions, but to not see so many other ones that are available to us.
• 11:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so I work with my clients on something called mental flexibility.
• 11:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: How do we find even more solutions that are available to us so that we're getting out of those tunnels and we're seeing all the other things that could be out there?
• 11:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then the third one is just to identify the next best step.
• 11:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: What are two or three solutions that seem feasible and what's the one that feels like the right move?
• 12:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes we need to evaluate more depending on how serious the next step is, right?
• 12:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: But sometimes we just literally need to take a step and stop wallowing in it and move forward.
• 12:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so if we need to evaluate, I can work with clients to do that, but often I just encourage people like what feels like a good next step and take, you know, make a move.
• 12:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then evaluate, it's just the hypothesis, right?
• 12:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: If it didn't work out, then take another step.
• 12:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's okay.
• 12:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we're moving forward also requires leaders to hold competing priorities without forcing every situation into an either or decision.
• 12:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: And what is both and thinking,
• 12:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: And how can leaders use it when they are balancing competing needs such as accountability and empathy, urgency and reflection or confidence and humility?
• 12:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so both and thinking is a way to use mental flexibility, our brains like I said like to give us two or three options and often they're either or I have to do this or I have to do that and we don't realize it it just but if we put it on paper if we really look at it it's I have to do this or I have to do that.
• 13:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: And both in thinking is, how can I, maybe have both of them?
• 13:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: How can I hold the tension between both and find a solution that works for both?
• 13:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: And this is often a popular one.
• 13:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm working with a group of HR leaders in a couple of days.
• 13:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: And they're working with, how do we use both in thinking to still uphold policy?
• 13:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: and be able to maybe treat our employees well, right?
• 13:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: So sometimes there's pieces of accountability and empathy that feel like they're at odds with one another.
• 13:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: So a policy says one thing, but an employee has kind of extended, extending circumstances, what do we do?
• 13:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: How do we apply both and thinking to find all the solutions that might meet both that we don't see at the beginning?
• 13:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I found both and thinking, it's all the time.
• 13:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: I find if I stop, I'm like, I'm using either or thinking,
• 13:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: And for years, I had done this with the gym even.
• 14:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: I thought I had to work out in my basement because my husband lives in the morning.
• 14:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's in manufacturing.
• 14:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's out the door by 420 and I'm the parent at home.
• 14:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so I couldn't physically go to a gym because I worked out in the morning and I can't leave the house.
• 14:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so I really felt restricted by this.
• 14:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I realized after probably five years of thinking like this that I was using either or thinking that I was deciding I can't go to a physical gym because I'm the parent at home in the morning, right?
• 14:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like there are these two things.
• 14:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: And when I realized that I started using both and thinking to find a solution to go to a physical gym and be the parent at home in the morning.
• 14:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: And all of a sudden, their solutions that were open to me that I had never seen before, and now I can religiously go to the gym five, six days a week.
• 14:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so we don't catch these things, but so often we pin two options against one another, and both in thinking opens up a world of possibility.
• 14:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: So what were the solutions that each chose?
• 15:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I realized if I got up in the morning and worked first thing in the morning for 90 minutes and then kind of the school bus morning routine and then went to the gym for an hour and came back I could get back to work.
• 15:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: But it so silly it never had crossed my mind.
• 15:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm always the person that worked out first thing in the morning and so that solution was not obvious to me.
• 15:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's obvious now but it wasn't obvious to me for years.
• 15:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: a simple pivot or change in your schedule can make the world a difference to be able to fit things and it's really unbelievable.
• 15:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I was stuck in such a like a corporate 85 mindset that I hadn't seen what opportunities were out there.
• 15:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you spent much of your career helping others build confidence and adaptability.
• 15:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: I would like to bring that perspective back to your own journey.
• 15:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you could speak to your younger self at a moment when the future felt uncertain, what would you tell her about confidence, influence, and their responsibility we each have for the environment we create?
• 16:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think for myself, I would give myself the advice that, you know, I'm not going to be able to
• 16:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I just have to be willing to do something and lack the confidence or even do it while I'm afraid, because every time I gain a little confidence in one place, there's another bigger thing out there to achieve.
• 16:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's something else to do that still scares me.
• 16:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so that would be the first piece of advice for myself.
• 16:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then the other one is recognizing the value that I bring to the workplace, took me a long time to realize that I have unique skills and a unique lens that I offer.
• 16:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: I thought everyone had that.
• 16:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: And now as I get older, I realize we all bring so many amazing gifts.
• 16:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I do have a unique perspective.
• 16:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: I do have a special lens that adds a lot of value.
• 16:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I appreciate so much more of the lenses that others bring.
• 16:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: And how much value they bring.
• 16:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's really a good advice, Aaron, and for the person listening today who wants to make a positive difference, but doesn't have, you know, the title of platform or a perfect plan, what is one intentional action you would challenge them to take next.
• 17:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: If you're dealing with something where you feel uncertain, you're not sure what a next step is.
• 17:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: I would follow those three steps, put the facts down on paper, really try to push yourself to find more solutions, add me on LinkedIn if you want some tools, like in Send a Few Ideas your way, but one of the practices is called Yes and.
• 17:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: and all you do is you keep allowing your brain to be open to brain dumping more ideas.
• 17:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: Don't stop yourself.
• 17:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: Stay yes and build the next idea.
• 17:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: Never say but never judge it, never evaluate in the moment and then take an step.
• 17:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: So stop being afraid, stop waiting for certainty, but just go and take a next step in a place where you're feeling uncertain.
• 17:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's such a great advice, Erin.
• 17:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for sharing that.
• 17:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: If our listeners want to get in touch with you, what is the best way to do so?
• 17:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: You can email me at Erin at realchangestudio.com or find me on LinkedIn under Erin Ramirez.
• 18:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Great.
• 18:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Erin, we'll put that information in the show notes.
• 18:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for sharing your stories in your advice with us today.
• 18:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so grateful for you.
• 18:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
• 18:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's great to be here.
• 18:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: And to our listeners, thank you for joining us for another episode of Daily Influence.
• 18:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Help us spread the positivity by subscribing and sharing daily influence.
• 18:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Each of us casts a leadership shadow through our words, reactions, questions, and choices.
• 18:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: We influence whether other people feel hesitant or capable, dismissed, or supported, stuck or ready to move forward.
• 18:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: As you leave today's episode, identify one place where you have been waiting for certainty.
• 18:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: You need the courage and accountability to take the next best step.
• 18:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Remember small actions create big impact.
• 18:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Keep showing up, leading, and growing one day to time.
• 18:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Until next time, stay inspired and keep having a positive, responsible influence.
• 18:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Bye.