Latest / WHAT I'VE LEARNT / What I've Learnt - Artist Gems (2022)

Transcript

What I've Learnt - Artist Gems (2022) · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, welcome to the Weather Flight Podcast.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Luke, one of the producers of the show.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: As a producer, I love my work, and helping Deborah and our team share so many wonderful stories.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: From food to fashion and art to music, we've got you covered.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: This week we thought we'd bring you something special.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: As the end of the year is fastly approaching, we thought we'd look back at some of the best moments we've had from artists that we've had on the show earlier in the year.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: So sit back and enjoy.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_03: Her unique background brings structured processes and original ideas to interior arts and design, which she's used to educate thousands of students around the world in her online school and in-person masterclasses.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_03: She's well known for creating and teaching timeless, iconic, and authentic interiors across personal styles, with an enormous number of her students having work appear in publications worldwide.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: It was tough.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: I decided to study design because I felt a little bit lost, and that was the only thing I felt interested in.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'd always been creative and really tried to integrate back into society, but it was so difficult.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: It was so difficult being around people who shopped and talked about what they did on Friday night and who was sleeping with who when all I wanted to do is be back on my boat alone, you know, cross-stitching and reading novels and listening to music.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think an experience like that separates you from most other people.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd found this pocket of happiness, but then I was thrown back into this pocket of extreme unhappiness because I couldn't get back to what it is I wanted.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: I got married, I tried to find happiness in other people and other things, like building a home and getting a dog and having a partner.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: And nothing really filled that gap for me.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: It was very hard.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_03: So lessons learnt through that experience.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I do think there's something universal about what you can learn, even scientific about what you're learning, because we are so saturated.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the mental health issues universally are clearly overwhelming and are getting bigger and worse.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, obviously the COVID thing has exacerbated that, but separate to that, I wonder if there's some lessons that you've learned through that process about what have we done to our humanity?
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_03: And have we lost touch with the poetry of life, which is what I think you could experience in a pure way in the in the ocean, or in for you, it was on that boat.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_03: But is there something that you, you know, can I suppose share in that sense?
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was really difficult, and you know, I had to rebuild my life.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, money is a is a hard thing.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: It gives you freedom, it gives you choice to what you want to do.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: I I couldn't afford to go and buy another boat.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't afford to move to a cabin in the woods full-time because I had to work.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I wonder if COVID and working from home could be a good culture shift for all of us to be able to be more independent, to work for ourselves, you know, find entrepreneurship so you can, you know, at least work at the time of day and the place where you want to be, you know, those sorts of things.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: It was tough, and I I really searched in those years for what I wanted, which led me to finding the cabin.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's this, that's how I ended up there.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: It was Tasmania wasn't at the time a place anyone wanted to go or move to or bought property in.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: It was still known as like a place that was a bit, you like if you were from there, you wouldn't say you were from there, that kind of vibe.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: But I'd always been so enamoured with Tasmania.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: As a little girl, I would talk about moving there.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: And my parents, who were sun lovers, would say, you know, you're crazy.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so the cabin I bought, which was incredibly cheap at the time because it wasn't hot property, was kind of my way to deal with things where I could go down there and rest and work with some good Wi-Fi, be outside of the world and then go back when I had to, and kind of suffer through the normal things that most people have to do in their day-to-day life.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_03: That's clever though, very clever that you actually found a way to still have your escape hatch, knowing that you had to deal with some elements of reality, which obviously meant you had to work to pay to live, which is obviously where we all get, you know, we get caught in that.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_03: But that work is also part of that healthy growth.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_03: And so you obviously realized you had to find that balance somehow.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_03: And that sounded like a great yeah.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's the best I could come up with.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: My wife at the time was not supportive because she was also a son lover and was not hot on the idea of Tasmania.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone in my life just said it was, you know, wasted money in terms of investment.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: The mut the pro the cabinet had been on the market for almost five years at that point.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: No one wanted to buy it, just kept dropping and dropping in value.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: And the amount of people I meet now who said I saw that and thought, oh, who'd want to live there or go there?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's pretty amazing.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it just was the best I could come up with that I could manage with the funds I'd scraped together, was just a small deposit on a very small, very remote, very cheap shack.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_03: And so Captain's Rest, did you name it Captain's Rest or was it named Yeah?
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: It was I named it because it was never going to be a rental.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: It was always supposed to be somewhere I was for as long as I needed to be, you know, so I could felt like I could breathe and be happy.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so it always was called Captain's Rest because it was the first time I felt like since I'd been thrown back into society and and had to work to live and had to put on a brave face and pretend I wasn't sad and depressed, or that I felt like I didn't belong.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was the first time I got to just stop and stop saying where I wanted to be and create the world that I wanted around me and had some of my power back.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it's certainly a beautiful place and all, I mean, the the photos and I would love to come and visit you.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_03: It looks amazing and stunning.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_03: But the but you have to, in a sense, I can see from what you've created there, it is a real sanctuary.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_03: So there's an it's got a sense that you can relinquish a little bit there.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_03: That's what I'm seeing for even just from what I'm reading and talking to you.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't like that when I bought it.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: It was a it was literally a shed with a um aluminium sliding window, and it was horrible.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: But it was mine, and I had a very small budget to make it basically the perfect world that I wanted, that I needed.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, those giant windows I found on Gumtree, like the whole cabin was designed to be.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: I basically was building a world for myself that I wanted to be in, which was probably half my boat and half my shack in Mexico put together.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a hybrid hot water and refrigeration and and heating and all the things I wished I had, but that's exactly what I did.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I wanted to do is create my own world where I could just be happy.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_03: And it looks like you certainly have done that, and it's quite beautifully decorated.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_03: I and and it's very looks very calming, the environment there.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, you would have utilized some of your design skills that you you'd learnt in the course that you embarked on.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_03: Talk to me about where design's taken you too, because that's obviously a big part of your story.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, you know, I went back to RMIT in Melbourne and studied design and loved it and ended up working in the design world and eventually opening my own design studio.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: So working big businesses all over Australia.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I loved it, but then I found myself being back where I started in an office dealing with clients, you know, it just wasn't any different.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, I started on the side becoming interested in property and renovating and and decorating.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'd always sort of had a bit of an itch to be in in that regard.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I was putting Captain's Rest together, and something I've always done is it's I used my science skills, you know, this the type of scientist I was is a spatial scientist.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I was a space of scientist of space and location.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: So understanding how the world works over distances, and that could be big distances, small distances.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I started, I always have looked at the world around me and tried to understand the formula for it.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I was a spatial scientist, which means I was the scientist of space and location, and I'd use those skills to go into other areas and understand what they did and help them create new formulas essentially, where they knew something existed but couldn't quite describe it in scientific or mathematical terms.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: So as a designer, I married my science skills with that and started creating rules for aesthetics, like the science of aesthetics, the science of what makes things beautiful, the science of how things make us feel in terms of materials and heights of things and light and heat, and really disseminating every single aspect of how we feel in a space visually and emotionally with science.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd always done it for myself because that's just the way my brain has always worked.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: But then with Captain's Rest, because of its very quick and immediate success as a rantor, which it had to become, you know, my life had changed from my original plan.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: I was able to teach, I guess, all those people who are reaching out, wanting to know how I did what I did in a way that worked for them too.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think when a lot of interior designers or stylists teach, they teach how they make a shelf look like this or how they style a couch.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: But what I could teach was the rules of what works and what makes things feel beautiful for people to input themselves into.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: So the students I was teaching also became enormously successful.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then people would take note of, like, wow, what did you do?
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: And they said, Well, you know, I went to study with Sarah, and then they would come, and then they would become enormously successful.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then it just that got so big so quick.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: I remember a couple of years ago, I was traveling around France and the UK, and I would play a game where I'd go into a news agency and see if I could find a design magazine.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't have a student in, and there was one year I couldn't find like every single magazine had an some kind of article or reference to somebody I'd taught in the previous couple of years.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I think connecting the dots back, perhaps I was always supposed to become a teacher because of the skills that I'd had.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: But everything, like without the boat crash and without captain's rest, and without those feelings of such low depression where I couldn't really do anything else and sail out to sea or move to Tasmania when it was not a cool thing to do.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, none of this would have happened, I guess.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_03: Melissa La Bosetta, an Italian-Australian artist based in Melbourne, is now a global ambassador for the Nonviolence Project Foundation, supporting unique educational programs to prevent and reduce violence around the world, and she's in very good company.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_03: Joining other fellow non-violence ambassadors for peace, Yoko Ono, Sir Paul McCartney, Sir Ringo Starr, Lionel Messi, Patricia Gucci, Una Chaplin, and many other artists, Melissa is a passionate advocate, creator, and mother of three whose art is sold around the world.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_03: So your painting was your solace, it was your way of finding comfort when you felt like you were an outsider of sorts.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_03: Always.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_05: Never, never, never and to this day, Australia is not home to me, but I love it.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_05: But when I go over to Italy and France, there's home.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_05: I feel normal.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_05: It's quite it's not the Aussies' fault, it's just how I and I've got this Aussie accent.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_05: You know, you I can't deny.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_03: There's a very strong Italian community that grew up here, and you're part of that.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_03: Tell me a little bit, also, just coming back to your reference to the conservatism of your family.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_03: Was that a Catholic religious base?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_03: And and what sort of give me some idea of how that tone was in the family with other siblings and what was the nature of that conservatism?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_05: You know, this is it's quite interesting.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_05: So my nonna, my grandmother, she was church every Sunday, right?
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_05: So I grew up going to church with her every single Sunday.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_05: Not that I wanted to, Jesus, she had to drag me, but I'd go with her.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_05: But my father, now look at my father and his parents, they were really religious.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_05: But my dad, back in the island of Strombury, this is where my father's from, it's an island of Sicily.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know, it's the volcano, the coolest place on the world, in the world.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_05: But he was with the altar boys back then.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_05: He was nine years old, and to this day, he saw the priest having sex with the nun.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_05: So my dad, right?
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_05: You've got to love this story, Deb.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_05: So my dad would say to us in the house in Italian, I won't say the words because I know we're going, we're gonna do this podcast, really badly.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_05: He'd go, the priesthood, the Catholics, it's a crock of whatever.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_05: You kids, when you get older, you just make your own decisions.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_05: This is what I saw.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_05: So he was really anti-it, but not the belief that people enjoyed believing in something.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_05: He just didn't, because he was a young boy and he saw the priest that that wasn't supposed to happen.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and we certainly know that historically that came what we would call an epidemic of sorts throughout the church.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_03: So it wasn't like he was, you know, some sort of aberration in what he saw from what we understand now.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_03: But then as a young boy, he obviously carried that confusion and that and and so really are you saying he would still abide by the the principles of his religion, but still be torn?
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_03: And yes, did he give you then license to be freer in your thinking?
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_05: You know, yes, he did, but this is where the strictness came in.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_05: So he gave me, so my dad would be the type of guy that if I came out in a really skimpy little mini skirt, he'd go, he'd be proud, he'd say, in Italian, he'd say, Listen, you got it, go faunt it, right?
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_05: But in the next breath, I'm not allowed out until a certain time, and I've got to be home in a certain time, and I was friendly until I was 21.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_05: So in one way, he gave me plenty of freedom, but in the other, he was my dad was a nightmare.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_05: He really was, he was tawning my side forever, but he gave me who I am as well.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_05: Does that make sense?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_05: Like, I'm not sure.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it does.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_03: So he gave you your strength and your resilience, but also clearly, he himself was clearly torn by the principles of what he how he was raised, and therefore you got this mixed message yourself.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_03: And so, what was your response to that?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like, how did you, as a young girl, were you did you have siblings?
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I had an older brother.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_05: I was a twin, but it didn't survive.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_05: So that was quite interesting.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_05: Mummy, you know, back as in mum's day, they didn't do scans, so mum passed it after me in the hospital.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_05: So that's quite a tricky, freaky thing because I feel like my twin's always with me in the spiritual world, which is quite amazing.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but my brother was six years older than I.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_05: So there was he and my go back to my dad being colourful and and he made my well, not made, my brother wanted to be a chef, so he was working at Leo Spaghetti Barn St.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_05: Kilda from the age.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, my favourite.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_03: We grew up going there.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_03: It's like actually my favorite, my entire family.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_03: Every Sunday night off to Leo's for a bit of amazing, Deb.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_05: Well, he was there from 13 years of age to 21 years of age.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_05: So that was my brother's life.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm either rebel, because I had the Aussie, he didn't get the same issues with me with the Aussie kids because he started working so soon after primary school that it sort of he didn't really mingle with kids much.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_05: He was sort of in the kitchen and then he went to do William Angus that studied and was with Italians.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_05: He didn't know, he had to learn Italian very quickly because the chef didn't speak English back then.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_05: So his upbringing was a little bit different to mine.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_03: Was it yeah, but and also as a woman, you would be subject like it just fairly or unfairly.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, you probably cocked it in a different way.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_06: Yes.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_03: And so your response was to, as you say, you refer to yourself as a rebel or somebody who okay.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_03: So how did that play out?
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_03: And at what sort of age did that start?
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_05: Well, I guess right.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_05: Well, we'll go to the first time a kid tried to call me a black sample, I punched them in the face, and that was in great prep.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_05: So I would knock, I was such a tough.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_05: I used to get called Wonder Woman in prep in prep because everyone would come to me to help them with fights and battles, and every my whole years in primary school from prep to six, every primary school I went to, I was Wonder Woman, and I would always help everyone.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_05: So it's quite an you know, Nicole Livingston, God bless us, the Olympic swimmer.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_05: I went to primary school with her, one of the schools at Parkdone.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_05: To this day, we saw each other about seven years ago.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_05: And as soon as she saw my face, because I punched her in the face because she was having a fight with another girl at the school.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_05: And then, of course, years later, she goes on to be this Olympic champion.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my god.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_03: So it was quite funny.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_03: It was funny.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my God.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_03: And also just coming back to your Wonder Woman reference, just for our listeners, um, as I, you know, in my intro, I talk about the Wonder Woman painting that brought me into your store, one of which I've obviously commissioned and want you to do for me.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but it is it is interesting because it is a very pivotal um and emblematic painting for you because it has that symbol symbolism where you have felt your whole life like you've had to be Wonder Woman.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_03: That's a lot of pressure.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_05: Very much so.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_05: And then you grow up, oh Deb, I'll just go out and say this.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_05: Then I'm 18 years old and I'm in St Kilda Road Police Station.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_05: Mind you, let me just tell you in a skimpy nighty, because my dad at seven o'clock in the morning, there's squat cars and uh undercover cops swarming my house, and my dad's been taken in for let's not even go, I don't even know what it was for because there was that many things.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_05: But I'm in so this is another under these lights, sweating in my nighty, my little skimpy nighty, because they wouldn't let me get dressed.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_05: So you've gone from I grew up having to be this tough girl because my dad, boy, it was full on.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_03: It was so just just elaborating on that without obviously things you don't want to reveal, but are you implying that he was hauled in because he had basically there was obviously some sort of there was things going down in the market.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_05: See, my dad was a fruiter, so there was things going down, and of course, look, this one he thankfully it wasn't him, but of course, he was involved with so many different things, Deb.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_05: We're gonna skip it a little bit until you know, but um bless him.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_05: You know, I was only just talking about this with someone last night, and and over the oh this whole year.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_05: I now talk about my dad proudly.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not ashamed anymore because I love him and he's my dad, and it takes a long time, you know that you grow up going, oh yeah, and then you suddenly see what they've been trying to do and how, but I do also think from what you're you're describing, it sets a really interesting tone for the path that you've taken.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, because you, you know, to do what you do and the way you do it, it's with courage and bravery and honesty.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_05: I'm free now, Deb.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_05: I'm free, I'm not I'm not scared anymore.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_05: I think that's where the six bless.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_05: I I use the word success because it's it's a blessing.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_05: I'm doing really well.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_05: And I think it's because I'm finally free and I'm not afraid to express who I am and what I want to put on a canvas.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_05: Does that make sense?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it does very much so.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_03: And what freed you?
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_03: What do you think has freed you?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_05: I'm not as I'm not scared of being my dad's daughter anymore.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_05: I'm not scared of a man controlling me.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_05: I'm not scared of what people think anymore.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_05: I'm not scared, because even to this day, my I love my aunties.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_05: My dad's got seven brothers and sisters, one passed away, but even growing up, not the ones I was close with, but there were about three that I'm not so close with, I love them, but they look at me like, oh, Sam's daughter, she's gonna be exactly like her father.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_05: Because I'm crazy and fun and all this sort of stuff, because there's a crazy, fun loving side to my dad.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_05: But I just took that goodness, I didn't take the bad stuff, you know, and my brother never took the bad stuff.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_05: So you've got that label, even to this day.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_05: There's I won't mention who they are, but there's people that still label me.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: I don't care anymore.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_03: What is very clear is you have found your calling and you have carved yourself quite a beautiful career.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, your life drawings are colourful and celebratory.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_03: They celebrate the female form and like your other works, have a vibrant sense of abstraction about them.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_03: Tell me what's inspired you to, I suppose you do a lot of beautiful nude work, and a lot of your paintings are just there, there's a passion.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_03: Every one of them has this sort of aura about them.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_03: Talk to me about how you moved from, as you said, wanting to be a cartoon artist to these extraordinary, and we can see one in the background here, these extraordinary portraits.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_05: It's a beautiful transition, and I know exactly what it's all about.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_05: And it's similar to what we're talking about.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_05: It's sort of growing into my body and loving myself so much that the oh I'm getting used to lumps that I want to put it all onto a canvas and create that woman.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_05: And that woman because I everyone always says, Is that you?
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_05: Is that you?
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_05: Is that portrait you?
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_05: None of them are me, but there's a piece of me in every single one of them.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_05: Because you did the next girl that's come, we've we all come from one, that's the freaky thing, all of us, yeah.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_05: So the empowerment, the beauty, the emotion that goes into these pieces of work is about a woman that has grown up and has fallen in love with herself.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_05: And because I am, I feel I I'm quite a sexual, confident woman as well.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_05: Even I must admit, even you know, fear I'm just a confident girl.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_05: Whether that comes from all the brokenness and the upbringing and learning to be strong, I'm not sure, but at the same time, fearful of many things.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_05: There's so much contradictory stuff that goes on with all of that.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_05: But then I grow up and I throw it all onto a canvas, and it's just it's the power within of us of us as a woman.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_03: Well, Australian arts leader, cultural producer, and curator with more than two decades of experience in international and Australian contemporary art and visual culture, Natalie King has a unique cultural footprint and networks in contemporary art, realizing landmark programs across Australia, Asia Pacific, and Europe.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_03: Working across multiple domains, her highly skilled leadership spans the life cycle of artistic production and management from new commissions, exhibitions, artistic partnerships, stakeholder relations, fundraising, and programming.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_03: You can go there.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's important for listeners, especially a lot of my young listeners, to know that there is a there, it's not one way to do things.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: If anything, sometimes the detours are the most interesting parts.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I might be heading towards one big project, and then, for example, I've just been invited to speak at a cultural leadership conference in Abu Dhabi run by Google and the Guggenheim.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, and I just said, Yep, okay, sure, I'm coming.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_02: You can just start to thread things together and sometimes unexpected details.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I'm quite interested in the Sharjah biennial.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I'll go and visit Sharjah.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm trying, but you've got to be attuned to opportunities as they arise and really harness them, not just stay, it's important to have goals and stay on path, but also be open to details.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: I guess when I mentor people, I say both is important, and also what matters to you.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I find that after I've worked very intensively on a big outward-facing exhibition like a Biennale, I often like to have a quieter year where I'm maybe researching and writing and I'm more on my own or with my family, and then I might be traveling.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I try and make sure that my calendar is amenable for me so that I'm also nurturing myself and refueling myself because you know it's pretty relentless what we do and the expectations on us.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I know, like you, like me, you're a mother with kids, and you know, it's that, and trying to make sure that you have that life balance is is challenging.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_03: If you're traveling a lot and you're like, I know I'm the same as you, if I'm writing something, I'm immersed, or if I'm doing the podcast, it's a different pressure.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_03: But at the end of the day, I think, do you think it's made you as a parent and as a partner having this beautiful richness of your own journey?
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_03: Tell me about how you think that has enhanced your life because I think it's certainly enhanced mine.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's it means that you can still hold on to yourself in the midst of commitment to others, commitments and obligations and hopefully inspire our children.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you've got daughters, I do too.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: So I want them to know that you can be a loving and caring mother, but you can also be very fulfilled intellectually and creatively.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: It is possible, it's not always easy.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I like them to see that, you know, this morning I did an interview with CNN, but tonight I'll be making bolognese.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's all kind of a messy chaos of being a mom and a woman and a wife and a daughter, and yeah, someone that's active and it's thrilling and it's chaotic sometimes, but it always I try and just stay secure in myself, really, and and trust trust my own judgment.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I think over time you learn those.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_02: No one can teach you how to do that, but you learn those skills to value yourself.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_03: I agree, and your judgment and also your intuition.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I know that I've had my daughters come to me and say, Oh mum, that's great.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_03: You're doing that, it's really exciting.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I don't need accolade from my daughters, it's more that they I want them to know it very similarly.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I think what you say is very important because often there is still judgment around mothers, even though it shouldn't be, there is a pressure.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_03: Make sure that you're there, be there, be there.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, we're all there, but we also are better there if we've actually got a sense of our own path.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_03: And you've certainly got that.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I think I because I've often seen you and I both running past each other to go to school or to pick up food, or you know, we're not, we're in a similar world.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_03: And and I know that you, you know, you've got the biennale coming up, and you'd know that I've got a book coming out.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I think there's a lovely um, there's just that nod winks, respect for what we do, and hopefully it inspires others.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I hope that our girls learn from that.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_03: So are you also now you're also a professor, which we need to also say, go you.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_03: Well done.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um, tell me a bit about the educational side of things in terms of your role and how important that is to you, and what you'd like to see for the next gen coming through the system.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm based where you studied at the Victoria's Arts, which is the South Bank campus of the University of Melbourne.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_02: And previously I've always worked in museums, and museums are very regulated, hierarchical environments, and I find an art school is nirvana for me because I love that.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: That's a great description.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's a place, it's youthful, it's a place of making, it's quite an informal environment, as you would know, and it's where I'm headquartered.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_02: So I I have limited teaching obligations, which I'm very grateful for.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_02: But I do mentoring, I'm I'm on various committees, I have an office on campus, and I have wonderful colleagues.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I feel very much embraced in that environment, and also most importantly, I'm near artists.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm a curator and I'm near studios and artists because we have that beautiful stables complex.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's great.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_02: You know, which is all the all those artist studios.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I feel like I'm exactly where I need to be as a curator.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas if I was in a museum, you feel more remote.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: Where you know, everything has to close at five, and there's so many committees, and I like to work very autonomously.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I work maybe like you as well with books, I work project-based.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, we I scale up as I go into the delivery phase.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: So for the Venice Biennale, it's not just me and that um artist.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: We have an assistant curator who's Pacifica, we have an exhibition designer, an exhibition manager, we have a locally engaged manager in Venice.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's a whole, it's a whole team and a whole structure, but I love that part of it.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's a collegiate, yeah.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_02: You've got also the collegiate aspect, yeah.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, and assembling, I guess, my own team and people who I like to work with.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: So the graphics behind me are designed by Ashley O'Neill from Salt Camp Studios, and she designs many of the Thames and Hudson books.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: And what the artist and I said to her is that we want a really Polynesian sensibility, so we want very warm tropical colours, but also she took a lead from the font and typography that she used.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: So there is a quite well-known Samoan typographer who was based in New Zealand called Joseph Churchwood.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: So she took inspiration from his typography to do our graphics, and also all the interwoven patterns relate to uh Siapo, which is the Samoan bark cloth, which is a traditional form of making.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: So we've tried to incorporate all these different Polynesian elements into our branding, our presentation, and you know, you need really skilled people because I don't know how to do this, I don't know how to do podcasts.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I know what I can do, and you're right, you do need quite a broad skill set.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I might be doing interviews, I'm editing press releases at the moment, working on schedules, but also captioning and you know, some of it can be quite straightforward.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_02: Administrative tasks.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: Also looking after the artists is one of my main.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_03: I was gonna say that, yeah, because they actually that that is actually quite a big thing for an artist to be going to the Biennale, it must be just so overwhelmingly exciting.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's like going to the Grammys or you know, for a musician.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's called, you know, the Olympics of the art world.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: From my experience, artists get quite feverish right before because there's a lot of pressure on them and they're really in the international spotlight.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: So part of my role is to make sure that they're they're looked after, they're briefed properly.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: There's also a lot of white noise around the Venice Biennale.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone wants access to the artist.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: So, for example, with Tracy Moffat, she took a long time to make her photographs.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: They go into, I didn't quite realise, a very long phase of post-production.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: So she could work on one photograph for three months and she is redoing it.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: And the best thing I could give her was time in the studio.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_02: I can't work on those photographs, only she can.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I needed to keep all the journalists and I need to give everyone away so she could have that precious time in her studio.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so I work very much in tandem, depending on what the needs of the artist is and how I can best support them to realise their projects.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes that's fundraising, sometimes that's hustling.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I was about to say, well, that's the other thing, and that is an important point you raise, because the arts obviously has had a complete battering across the board.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's already challenging to get arts into the main palladium, if you like, of life, like saying to people, because they see it as a well, you know, I don't need that, I don't I don't have to buy art this year or whatever.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_03: So then you have the COVID overlay.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_03: So, and I know this is also with music and albums and books, etc., but they're also the very thing that a lot of people turn to for great comfort, and also because people were home, they were like, Well, I might as well get that beautiful piece of art.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_03: So, what are the realities of the art world in terms of funding, financing, and actually these people earning a living and being able to survive?
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_02: Look, to be honest, it's very tough.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_02: And with our new budget, there was a 20% cut in our which is very disheartening.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_02: And it would be fair to say that the arts, the whole sector is in a state of distress.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: However, we do always somehow find a way through.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_02: Somehow, I think you know, the remuneration for artists and creatives is often, you know, you meant to do it because you you love it, but really, you know, it's a it's cultural labor, it needs to be remunerated.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's yeah, it's absolutely vital, and we have to stand up for our creatives.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: And there's, you know, there's no wonder that during COVID, people were forming online choirs, people were doing poetry recitals, people were turning to the arts because the arts is the soul of any community.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_02: And we saw that even if you were baking.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, how many of us started baking?
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_02: I learned to make hullas.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: I never thought I'd do that.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_03: I'm very impressed that you did that.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_03: I used to do it at I did it a little bit, but I I do the the online choirs and the musicians, and and you know, you speak to someone like you know, or even John Stevens and all of those artists that were used to traveling and being out live were like, we are literally not there now.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_03: Like, where are we?
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_03: We're just stuck.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_03: So they were all going online, trying to actually find a way to stay connected and communicate.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_03: Art, it's also quite material and tactile, and it's a very visual thing that can work online, but a lot of it is you need to stand in front of it and have it.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: True, it's experiential like going to a concert.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: However, I think we've also learned from this period how important it is to have virtual access.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_03: 100%.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_03: There's no choice now.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: Look, going to the Venice Biennale is very a very privileged opportunity.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_02: So we uh we will have a very active online presence, we will have QR codes in the exhibition where you can then there'll be cutaways to the artists talking about the work.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I think most or many of the pavilions are thinking like this, and you know, I know myself I was at home for two years, and I could look at these, it's not the same, but I could still go on virtual tours of you know MoMA if I wanted to.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_03: Filmmaker Ling Aang has been documenting her dreams through written records across the span of three years.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_03: Combining journals with her photographs from the conscious world, she brings to life these personal subconscious narratives.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_03: Familiar landmarks turn into the locations of a sci-fi fantasy, recurring themes revolving around her childhood, hedonism, and the afterlife.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_03: A visual artist with over 10 years of experience across a diverse array of international productions, her work is rooted in a documentary language exploring contemporary issues with a strong narrative format.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_04: Definitely, I think in the same way where some of our favorite directors maybe will only release three feature films in a decade or so, you know, where I guess on one hand, concentrating on the one medium can quote unquote lead us to master it.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_04: But sometimes we do hit, you know, a mental block where I struggle with trying to express myself through that one medium.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_04: And it was so freeing when I realized that, you know, I could try and experiment with other mediums if I wanted to further express myself in that way, to tell or if not to share other people's stories through other mediums.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_04: And I mean, yeah, with my project surrounding lucid dreaming, there's still no camera that can go inside my heads yet to record some of the scenes that we could remember.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_04: And that's what led me into writing.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_04: Writing was never my strong point, but I started developing it as I started writing them every day.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_04: And now I'm up to I think 1,200 written accounts since 2018.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_04: Um and it's definitely developed.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_04: And then from there, you know, wanting to, you know, see that visually on the wall by hand so other people can walk through it, you know, in the same way, I guess, you know, if we wish that people could walk through films, you know, that is also the exploration that we can do through augmented or virtual reality.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_03: It is like I was I was looking at uh you know some of the um material that you have created, the notion of journaling your dreams, the bravery of recalling and honoring that memory is actually, I mean, as a writer, I understand how much effort that must take to actually take the time to, and I'm assuming that in order to recall your dreams and journal them, um, you do that pretty much when you wake up, or or how do you make sure that what is reality and what is memory?
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like often you'll go, Did I dream that?
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_03: You know, is that did that actually happen?
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_03: Or did I dream it?
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_04: Or like how do you It's as soon as I wake up, you know, and um it I won't answer phone calls, I can't have any conversations, I have to write them then and there.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_04: Uh sometimes I would, you know, write all the dot points if it was in the middle of the night that I would remember, so I could try to go back to sleep.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_04: And then um the next day, if I wanted to kind of flesh it out a little bit more, um, because I would recall some of the details.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, I mean, you know, I guess going back onto, you know, um, what is memory and then what is reality, I mean, it is still any any recount is still my perspective.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_03: Uh yeah, it's a lens, isn't it?
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, anyway.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um, that's true.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_03: That's that is actually true.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I suppose what you're saying is it really almost is immaterial, whether it's a reflection of memory or your lens on that experience.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_03: And your souvenirs of sleep is so just for our listeners, can you just expand a little bit on what that is and how that came to be?
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_03: And it's it's referencing obviously you honoring your dreams.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_04: I coined the term souvenirs of sleep after um my first physical installation of the work.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, that was in 2019, uh, that was built at my sister and her husband's uh art space, L'Espace.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_04: And yeah, I took over one of the studios and they asked me what I am going to do in there, and I said, I'll do whatever I want to do in there.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_04: And I wanted to see what at that point I had 400 uh written accounts, and I wanted to see what did 400 dreams look like across all the walls, and I wanted to invite viewers to come in to read the dreams, and I mean to also feel like they could feel comfortable with their vulnerabilities.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_04: You know, there's some I mean, recounts that are quite confronting, very private scenes, and I mean, especially kind of as a as a woman, these are not, I guess, usual interpretations into dreaming.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_04: When I first started examining the world of dreaming a little bit more and going into readings, all the references that were given to me um were from wonderful male writers, but you know, I thought be more curious to see, you know, what could a recount from you know, in the modern day pretense, you know, as a woman uh could be.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_04: And that then that led me into um my larger installation for NGV Design Week, which was a nod towards the film industry as well.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_04: Um, with you know, the early practicing of virtual production.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_04: I was fortunate enough to um go to Alex Theatre and experiment um with their virtual production studio that they had taken the chance to turn into during lockdown.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_04: It was a ballet studio before that.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_04: And then they and then they um built all these LED screens for us to experiment with 3D environments.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it's really quite exciting to see the sort of the things that are coming up in terms of creativity.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think something that you have tapped is this endless willingness to push out and to explore new mediums.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_03: For example, what you just outlined in the Alex Theatre just sounds really exciting and interesting to explore.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, do you think we all dream and do you think creativity is linked to our access to the unconscious?
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I grew up, my father's a psychiatrist, okay?
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_03: So we grew up like at 12 with him going, and what did you dream last night?
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we'd all sit there and talk about our dreams.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_03: It was very unusual upbringing in the sense that there was a very great honouring of dreams as a means of understanding oneself.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_03: So it was just, you know, not your average breakfast off before school.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_03: We'd often, you know, and I remember just being very excited to talk to him about those, those things because often, you know, and obviously it come, you know, he'd come from an understanding with Jungian views of dreams, and there's a whole lot of, as you know, complex psychiatric and and philosophical elements to interpreting dreams.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_03: How many of those constructs do you apply to yourself and what revelations did you encounter on this journey?
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_04: It it's, I mean, I over the last month there's been a lot of heavy rain in my dreams.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, and you know, I think after the years of understanding and breaking down, um, it's definitely helped me center myself a lot more, treat the people around me way better, uh, because I understood from after waking up and recalling those dreams that those were my feelings surrounding that situation.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_04: And then hopefully that then as the next situation would come forward, that I could, you know, detach myself a little bit from applying too much, you know, kind of say negative emotion um before approaching the situation.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_03: So you're saying you can learn from we can learn from our dreams.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_03: Is that is that what you're saying?
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_03: And that that helped you, it helped inform your response to things in reality?
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, because I think if we were writing a recount of our day-to-day, the same way as we're normally trained, um, to write journals of today I woke up, I went to someone's birthday, I ate this piece of cake, I went to sleep at seven.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_04: You don't really know how you can how you felt.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_04: You would assume that you had a lot of fun at that birthday party.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_04: But if you dreamt that, you know, there was tidal waves and sharks, I mean you that's way more interpretive that something is not right.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_03: And actually, the heavy rain in your dreams of the last month, what is what did you determine that was a reflection of?
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_04: Um, mixed between um a lot on my mind, um, especially in and out between the floodings um that's been happening in this country, a combination between, I guess, a lot of the work that I've been trying to concentrate on, um, whilst a lot of the issues, I guess, our country and our world are tackling right now.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_04: And I mean, you know, as an artist, kind of have feeling that kind of pressure of you know, trying to make more work that you know is activizing towards um those issues.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I've been having a lot of that discussion lately where I feel that you know, a lot of our work can be so metaphorical and very beautiful in that sense, but you know, we have a lot of issues that need urgent attention.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so maybe the work needs to be a bit more urgent.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for listening.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: The What I've Learned podcast comes out every Tuesday for more fantastic stories from amazing guests.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: Check out the What I've Learned Instagram for more updates.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: And as Deb would say, stay tuned, kind, and curious.