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SMNTY Classics: Wednesday Addams · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha. I come to stuff
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: I ever told you production by Heart Radio and Listeners.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Just a peak behind the scenes. When we do these classics,
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: we do them in batches, so sometimes I'll be like, oh, yeah,
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: I forgot we recorded that week's ago. But the three
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: that we're recording today are all we're moving into our
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: October kind of fall autumn creepy times. And I didn't
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: really mean to do this, but all of them are.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Irrelated to that. They love it.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, starting with we're bringing back the episode we did
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: on Wednesday Adams, because the new season on Wednesday came
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: out not a sponsor.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Wasn't a sponsor? Then not a sponsor?
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Now wish I did watch and enjoyed, and I always
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: you know, and I hear that theme song, I know
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: what's coming.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: I know Halloween is all the way. Yes, so please
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: enjoy this classic episode.
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: I'm not good to Steffan never told you a protection
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: And welcome to another sub sub sub whatever sub segment fictional.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: When around the world, I will say I'm in a
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: bit of a pickle. I'm in a bit of a pickle.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: Samantha because I really wanted to do and I continue
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: to want to do a few last of us characters
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: because the show is coming out in January and I'm
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: hyped for this and I want to talk about them.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: But now it's like a strange spoilery.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: Zone because the game has been out since twenty thirteen.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: But everybody I thought of, I'm like, that's a pretty
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: big spoiler if somebody has somehow managed to avoid getting
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: spoiled from listening to this show.
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: Right to be fair, outside of listening to the show, obviously,
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: but with the show coming on on HBO, had it
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: not been for you, I would not know anything about
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: the show.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: But if I talked about the people I was going
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: to talk about, it would have been a major spoiler.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: There was four people I thought of, four, and all
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: of them I was like, oh no, I can't.
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: Oh no, Well, I've definitely done spoiler days years before,
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: So I think as long as you do the spoiler
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: alert at the top, yeah, okay, I think we should.
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: I think you should think about it. You don't have
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: to be in that pickle anymore.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: You're trying to get me out of this pickle. I
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: was you should have seen me deliberate. I know it
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: wouldn't surprise you, but I was like, just couldn't.
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: No, it doesn't you deliberating on things.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: Does not.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: No well.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: And the interesting thing is I actually had another character
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: I was going to talk about today who I really
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: cannot wait to talk about.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: It is from a cartoon series. I'll give you a
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: little hint.
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: Oh, I have no idea.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: I know who wrote you could look at the calendar,
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: but don't. Don't let it be a surprise. No, no,
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: But I bumped it because the internet is on fire
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: with this fictional character, because today we are talking about
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: Wednesday Adams, the deadpan goth character who has ye just
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: taken over the internet. And that's saying something that I
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: know about it because I'm not on TikTok, but things
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: have come my way and.
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: I did watch the show, so I'm excited.
• 3:53
  Speaker 4: But because I am from the original era of Christina Lucci,
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: not Rich, I guess the secondary era of Riti playing
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: the character.
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: Had there been social media like that.
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: I think she would have really owned it because she
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: kind of owned our generation between this character Casper and
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: Now and then those movies.
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: She I think would have been could have been a
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: little more iconic.
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: I mean to the fact that she was in this
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: news edition because she was that iconic.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: Yes, well, I hope you'll talk about that when we
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: get to it, because I've actually never seen.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: It any of those things.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: So yes, I spoilers, but very light spoilers, I'll say.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: For the show, I haven't really had a lot of
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: experience with the Adams family. I vaguely remember watching some
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: of the very old show when I was a kid
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: because my dad liked it in the song the theme
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: song was on the Halloween playlist every year.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: But that's about that was the extent of my knowledge.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: I did watch Netflix's Wednesday, which broke the platforms record
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: for most hours streamed. I did always like the character though,
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: even though I hadn't like seen a lot of the
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: material she was in. I always liked her. I liked
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: the look of her. I liked the general vibe of her.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: I think I wanted to dresses her. I have a
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: Wednesday outfit up here. I never did it, but I
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: have the outfit that's ready to go.
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: That iconic dress, which has always been a part of
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: the character since the beginning. That's still a big fashion
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: trend and it was even before this release. Has been
• 5:31
  Speaker 4: like I remember looking for something for like nice black dresses,
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: and that dress would pop up and I'm like, why
• 5:37
  Speaker 4: would I, as an adult thing, want to go to
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: a wedding wearing that?
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: But no, it would be awesome people. You get people
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: talking true. So here's the quote about the numbers.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: Tim Burton's Adams Family reboot series has become only the
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: third Netflix show to rack up a billion hours of
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: views in a month, and I believe it's gone up
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: since then. The dance, the Wednesday Dance, which has a
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: lot of issues and back and forth round.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: It, but it is everywhere.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: Tim Burton, who directed a bunch of the episodes, is problematic,
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: but we are not talking about that today. That's a
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: different thing. And yeah, we're not really going to go
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: in depth on plot stuff. We're more just talking about
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: the character. So yeah, minor spoilers, but not nothing major. Also,
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: I was born on a Wednesday and the poem Wednesday's
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: Child is full of flow. I loved that poem when
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: I was a kid because I really wanted to be emo.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: Even young. I was like, ah, yes, yeah, the tragedy
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: of being born on a Wednesday.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: And there's a series called The Keys to the Kingdom
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: series which I loved when I was a kid, and
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: it had all these kind of like.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: Every character Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: It represented like one of the seven Sins, and Wednesday
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: was one of my favorites. Okay, so let's talk about
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: this character. So Wednesday Friday Adams is one of the
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: main characters of the Adams Family franchise is depicted in
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: the comics that first debuted in nineteen thirty eight in
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: The New Yorker, and TV shows, films, and a musical.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: If you don't know, at the core, the Adams family
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: is sort of a wacky, creepy, outcast family of gothy
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: kind of monster adjacent folks. They're sort of like the
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: Halloween version of something like the Brady's. So Wednesday's parents
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: are more Titia and Gomez Adams, and she is the
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: older sister to Pugsley and Pubert Adams, though the ages
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: and order has changed a lot. And yeah, she was
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: named after the nursery rhymeline. Wednesday's child is full of woe.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: Over the years, she has been played by several people,
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: from Lisa Louring, Christina Valenzuela, Nicole Fuguiere, Khylie Grace Moretz,
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: Christina Ricci, and now Jena Ortega. She's usually depicted as
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: having pale skin, dark hair and braided pigtails, black clothes,
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: and just a general gothy look, although that's not always
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: true but kind of generally right yeah, And this has
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: also sparked conversation about Latina representation because generally, but not always,
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: Gomez has been played by Latino actor, but it was
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: never really a big piece of his identity. And while
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: people were excited for Tega on the new show, the
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: same is true for her character and her very sympathetic
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: ancestor Goodie in the show is a white settler with
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: blonde hair, and many argue should have been a meso
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: American or indigenous person instead. And on top of that,
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: a lot of the bullies, who admittedly were redeemed but
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: still were the few black characters in the show right, so.
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: Including owning a pilgrim world, which is like yes.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: On the creators and actors.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: The character has changed in its depiction, but a few
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: things generally remain the same. For instance, when she was
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: first introduced in the nineteen sixties show as a six
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: year old girl. People argue about her age all the time.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: She was fascinated with the macabre, and that's been a
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: constant theme of her character. However, some iterations of her
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: have been sweeter than what most of us probably would expect.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: Definitely in the context of the rest of her family.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: She was the quote nice one in these early versions
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: in the nineties movie series, though she was meaner and
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: you'll have to talk about.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: This, Savantha.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: She also typically has a strong protected streak with her family,
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: though she might try to hide or deny it. However,
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: there are plenty of instances where she really really punishes
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: people who disrespect her family. In the twenty nineteen movie,
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: she's nice to those who don't bother her, but not
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: so much to those who do, and she usually has.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: Some kind of scientist or smooth angle going.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: On, right.
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: She's always either doing in an experiment or she's always
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: on a case of something. And the ones that I
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: do remember is she does love punishing her brother Slash,
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: playing quote unquote with her brother, but it's typically like
• 10:11
  Speaker 4: trying to dismember him, or trying to electrocute him, or
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: trying to explode him.
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: And he loves it publicly just loves it.
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: However, Yeah, but if he tried to mess with her
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: or try to tease her, She's gonna come at you.
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: The two difference with Ricchie and Ortega, the or take
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: a character is a lot more. I feel like she
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: would be actually on the spectrum character of like being
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: so hyper focused and so like over the top, like
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: unable to excude emotions as where Richie's character just didn't
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: want to. It was kind of like one of those
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: one felt like a choice, one felt like a diagnosis.
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: If you can, if you can go there.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Right right, that's a quote, that's the quote of the episode.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: Well do you remember, like when did you see the
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: nineties movie?
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: Oh, I was definitely younger. It's definitely during the times
• 10:59
  Speaker 4: of was after I want to say Casper, which we
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: all loved everything because Devin Sawa. We loved Devin Sawa
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: and then like fell in love with the ghost.
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: Apparently. I was pretty young.
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: I was eleven, and Christina Ricci would have been eleven
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: as well. I think we were the same age. And
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: by the way, I do love the resurgence of Christina
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: Ricci coming back full swing into the acting world because.
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: She's always been great to me.
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: So the three films that I know her best are
• 11:27
  Speaker 4: The Adam's Family, Casper, and Now and Then. So for me,
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: I think Now and Then was the big one because
• 11:36
  Speaker 4: that was specifically made for I think young girls. But
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: then like, yeah, she was Adam's Family first and then
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: the other two. But what I do remember is like,
• 11:45
  Speaker 4: even though you had big names like in Jelkie Houston,
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: Christopher Lloyd, as in fact, one of the movies were
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: based on Christopher Lloyd coming back to the family, Christina
• 11:53
  Speaker 4: Ricci always always pulled focus, whether it was she was
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: the one I think investigating Christoph Lloyd actually his character
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: who plays Uncle Fester, who loses his memory and comes
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: back to the family. So it's like she was the
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: focus for all the movies even though other big name
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: characters were on it as well, and she was fairly
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: new for that.
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: So that's what I do remember.
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: And her characters were always like pointed, like it was
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: dark and mysterious, but it was her character, those big eyes.
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: It worked for her.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and I would agree, like again, I haven't
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: seen it, but what I felt like when I think
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: of those movies, all the images I remember, all the
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: like random quotes I've heard people say are from Wednesday. Yeah,
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: And I had to resist just reading a bunch of
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: quotes because that character, it just bangs them out, like yes.
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: Yes, shown a witty one liner, likes things and walks away.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: Yes, it's amazing, Yes it is.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: And that's kind of the thing why people love this
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: character so much, because she has been the source of
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: a lot of feminist articles and so many people over
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: the years have cosplayed her. The second I saw this
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: new show, I was like, oh, yeah, next year at
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: dragon Con, this is it.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: This is gonna be.
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: Huge, all of them. Yes, yeah, and I mean.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: There's like iconic looks. I get it.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: And I do think one of the reasons she really
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: resonated with a lot of people, and a lot of
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: women and girls is that she is the opposite of
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: how young girls are typically portrayed in our media, which
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: we've talked about a lot in the show, Like there
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: are so many juxtapositions with her because pigtails, for instance,
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: are usually associated with innocent young girls. But she does
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: not behave that way. She doesn't beave how you expect.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: She leans into the strange. She is quote not emotional,
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: which we'll return to in a minute. But she's just
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: kind of like the opposite of what we're used to
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: seeing and much of our media when it comes to
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: that type of character. From Black Girl Nerds, specifically about
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: the nineties version of this character quote, she's not nice,
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: she's not sweet, and she's not sorry. Wednesday Adams is blunt, cynical, sarcastic,
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: and has the most enviable, resting bitch face, none of
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: which she has any intention of apologizing for. That's right,
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: when unsuspecting people dole out the usual garbage of you
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: should smile more, Wednesday asserts herself firmly and defiantly refuses
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: to smile on command, a brilliant example for every young
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: girl told to make herself look friendly and approachable, because
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: God forbid, women appear the least bit intimidating. Although she
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: is white, cis presumably straight female. She doesn't use her
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: privilege as an excuse, but rather as a tool to
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: amplify the voices of those who find it much harder
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: to be heard. And then this is from bitch Flicks,
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: What does it mean to be a little girl? There's
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: so much cultural baggage associated with female childhood. On the
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: one hand, little girls are pure and innocent and needing
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: of protection. They're the emotional backdrop of a thousand action movies.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: The father must get home and save his darling little girl.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: On the other hand, little girls are threatening, They're creepy,
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: They're the demons of a thousand horror movies. The family
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: union must save itself from the imprecations of a terrifying
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: little girl who wants to destroy them. And then there's
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: Wednesday Adams. She's another thing entirely, and Wednesday is still
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: really really threatening.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: That's right threatening.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: Part of why I loved these movies so much as
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: a kid was because Wednesday, far from being a delicate
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: flower or even playing second fiddle to her brother, is
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: arguably the most dangerous character in the whole story. She
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: has a sense of apathy and morbid misery mixed in
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: with a violent streak and superhuman strength. She's very threatening,
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: especially to everyone she views as well.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: That's threat.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: I would say that if she fears anything, it's becoming normal,
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: and that's a powerful message, the idea that the biggest
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: thing we had to fear is not abnormality, but the
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: loss of what makes us distinct. It's especially poignant coming
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: from Wednesday, because what makes her distinct is so well distinctive. Yes, yes,
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: And as we said, she's very, very antisocial, and she
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: has so many great dark, dark at one liners, and
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: it's kind of comical and entertaining to see a young
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: girl reject so much of societal norms to talk about
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: these huge literary figures, to quote them like's.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: It was funny to see the juxtaposition.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: Of her and her roommate, who a lot of people ship,
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: by the way, in the new show.
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, apparently Ortega doesn't two. I don't know if
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: she's just like feeding into the frenzy.
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: But uh it made yeah, yeah, you know.
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: One of the things I think is interesting because in
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: what I remember about the nineteen ninety one movies, and
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: someone can correct me, but there is a really problematic
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: scene nineteen ninety one in which they are playing Native
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: Americans and cowboys essentially, but Wednesday makes this comment about
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: how the pilgrims slaughtered essentially all of the Native Americans
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: and it is their fault that they brought in disease
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: and like they tricked the man.
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: Like she says this, and everybody's like, oh.
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: My god, you know, like making a comitic scene, as
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: well as the fact that in the New Wednesday they
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: talk about the problematic issues with chocolate and how they
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: use enslaved peoples and the Germans used in slave peoples
• 17:05
  Speaker 4: to gather all this chocolate and massacred a whole community
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: for chocolate. And I found that funny because like, these
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: are the things that we know Wenesday does. She's going
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: to take what white people, and essentially it is white
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: people would want as a celebration to be decimated with
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: the truth, like the level of the problematic issues with
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: that subject that people, the white people.
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: Were trying to celebrate. So I did appreciate those things.
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: That was a couple of the things that like poked
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: out of my mind when it comes to the fact that.
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: She was making sure you knew the truth whether you
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: liked it or not. Yeah.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's kind of one of the things that
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: I think is really interesting about this character. Why I
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: think so many people like her is she doesn't so
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: many of us for reasons We've talked about, for reasons
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: I totally understand, and I've done, like you do that
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: thing for safety, Like you're like, oh, I don't want
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: to speak up because it's not safe for me to do.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: So it's fun to watch a character be like no,
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: and she's danger like they said, like you don't mess
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: with her. So it's really like rewarding to kind of
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: get to live that moment of oh, I wish I
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: could do that, like, oh, yeah.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: Really live it.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: And then I do love so many things aimed at
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: teenage girls, and I think this is changing, and it
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: has been changing for a while, but for so long
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: was just like so focused on the romance part and
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: so focused on like the thing she'd be writing in
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: her diary is, oh, why won't this guy notice me?
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: That's like the last thing on her mind.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: It's not that she's like if something comes her way,
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: she's not kind of interested, but that's just not her thing,
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: Like that's the bet on the back burner she's got
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: all these other things.
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: Are right, that's definitely nineteen ninety one. Wednesday didn't care
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: about boys boys.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: Right, And I appreciate that.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: I appreciate I liked seeing the comparison of her like
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: her in the room mate, where the roommate's like, I
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: have my blog and I'm writing about.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: This and this and this, and Wednesday's just like let
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: this thing. Yeah, exactly exactly.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: Here is a quote from the Guardian, especially for a
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: teenager with a kid friendly rating. Wednesday speaks with the
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: critical self awareness and acumen of your textbook byronic hero,
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: a literary architect commonly associated with Heathcliff of Emily Bronte's
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: Wuthering Heights, or more recently, Gossip Girls, Chuck Bass and
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: even Sylvie. They're your clever, morose, condescending types, dangerously blessed
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: with irresistible good looks and saddled the baggage of past trauma.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: Wednesday's trauma is the death of her pet Scorpion, who
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: was murdered when she was six. She's sence bowed to
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: never cry again.
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: That was hard, That was mean.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: It was mean.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: I did I want to come back and talk about
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: this because a lot of articles have come out about
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: because of the popularity of the show about why we
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: love women who hate us?
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: So I do want to come.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: Back and talk about Oh lord, no, I think it'll
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: be interesting.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: I think be funny. I would argue in the new show.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: She is somewhat of what a mainstream media person would
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: call Mary Sue. I have a whole lot of thoughts
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: about this, and you can listen to our past episode
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: about that. But like good at everything other than human interaction,
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: and everyone loves her. But again I don't think there's
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: anything wrong with that necessarily, And dudes get away with
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: that Scott free without a sexist moniker being attached to them,
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: So just to put that out there. She also has
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: like psychic powers, which I think has gone off and
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: on throughout her her run. She can play the cello,
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: can speak multiple languages, convince she's pretty awesome.
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: And an archer in all of the movies.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: It's the archer. Yeah, you're right.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: One thing that they didn't really resolve in this season
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: of the show. I haven't seen any of the other things,
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: and I saw some people kind of complain about this,
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: But there was a tense mother daughter relationship in the
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: show where Wednesday did not want to be like her mother,
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: kind of felt pressure to be like her, very much like.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: A teenage pushing away, don't want to do it.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: I've heard that that was kind of a departure.
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's never a thing.
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: The mother never really cares and the daughter never really
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: cares for her mother's approval. Actually, everything she did she
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: got her mother's approval essentially, And it's true the Wednesday one,
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: she everything she did. Mother was proud because it was
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: all that dark and morose type of conversation and they're
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: very proud of that. The only thing that the mother,
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: Catherine Sada Jones, which was I did not realize she
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: was going to play this until I watched it, is
• 21:20
  Speaker 4: that she wants her daughter's affections. Yeah, that's not a
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: thing right in the other movies, I kind of separates
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: the two of them mistigially.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So we could come back.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: And maybe talk about that.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: Later.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: I do also think this is an interesting uh in
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: that activist around the world where you unfortunately could not
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: be there where I read listener mail Samantha I did.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: I mentioned a quote about I seen from a famous
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: author who is saying like, essentially, once you start to
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: break apart characters for that are intended for children audiences,
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: as an adult.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: Everything falls apart.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: And I do think this was a really interesting example
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: of where Wednesday's like, well, I've been somebody's trying to
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: kill me, and.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: I've been like all this stuff of this stuff, and
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: they're like, oh great, it's going well, Like.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: It was a fun flip on that that whole idea and.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: Then going back to something you said earlier.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: There has been discussion about how Wednesday's anti social behaviors
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: could be coded as autism or something on the spectrum.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: Here's another quote from The Guardian.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: Only when a conventionally beautiful, non weird person performs weirdness
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: is this palatable to quote normal people? According to one commentary,
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: the parent of an autistic child actually quote weird people
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: get bullied, sidelined or placed outside of the zone of
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: real friendships, and I agree. I think this is one
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: of the reasons the character hits with so many people
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: who feel like outcasts in one way or another. But
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: realistically it wouldn't play out like this again right.
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: As an adult to be fair into this series, specifically
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: the very beginning scene which she's expelled from a regular school.
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: They are the outcast there.
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: She gets expelled, which that's why her brother gets bullied constantly.
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: She comes to a school for wayward people like people
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: with powers, so that behavior is not so off putting
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: in a school like that. I think someone with a
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: spectrum that has that typic if she was on the spectrum,
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: as I was saying, I'm like, if I was watching
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: this clinically, I would think that she was on the
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: spectrum with high functioning all of these things and more
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: OCD than anything else, because her hyper focus is very obvious,
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: to the point that she does not care who she
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: runs over, which was part of the conversation in that
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: she's in an environment where she success. She's successful because
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: she can do all of these things really really well
• 23:57
  Speaker 4: in a school that is an outsider.
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: So right would she have been so outsided? I don't know.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: Right, that's a good point. That's a good point.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: And another thing is like she's she's a really fun character,
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: but she is pretty toxic. Like, Okay, we're putting in
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: our real world things, right, it doesn't necessarily need to be.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: But she's definitely a friend I would drop. I would
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: drop her. Very fun to watch. Christina Ricci said of
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: her Wednesday, was allowed to be just who she was.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: She's never asked to change or compromise or hide who
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: she is.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: And actually there's there was.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: A whole piece CNN just released yesterday about why in
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: the world did this dance take off so much? And
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: that was one of their big points, was like, it's
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: because she essentially was she was doing the dance like
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: nobody's watching but did not care at all.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: She was being herself.
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: Absolutely and also retro is coming back in. That was
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: like a retro interpreted dance.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: It was, it was. It was very unpredictable. That's what
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: I would say.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: From Slat. Here's a quote. Sure, there are problems with this.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: For one, it assumes that stoicism, a more stereotypically masculine trade,
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: is preferred. The feminine position on the emotional gender binary
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: leans toward expressiveness and melodrama, and the cliche that women
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: can't control their emotions and is often weaponized against them.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: How many times have women been deemed too emotional to
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: do something like Romona Country mass swooning over deadpan women
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: implies that expressive, vivacious women are somehow not in control.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: Quite the opposite.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: There's bravery and merit and being as passionate or allowed
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: as you want to be, knowing it could be spit
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: back at you in some silly gender debate.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: It means someone has the guts to let you know them.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: And then one final quote from the Guardian, the enduring
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: appeal of characters like this an admittedly toxic outcast with
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: inherently good intentions is the desire for every weirdo to
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: feel seen on TV. Wednesday's formula may be flawed, but
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: fantasy is the point in an idealized world where your
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: well timed barbes and lack of interest in others' approval
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: made you impervious to bullies and the caretaker of your
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: fellow misfits. Who wouldn't want to be Wednesday Adams. Yes, yeah, yep,
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: that's what we're.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: Kind of talking about.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: Like, yeah, in this fantasy world, it'd be great if
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: you just say what you want, protect the misfits fantastic.
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: And can shoot in po and era, yes, and.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: Can shoot a bow and arrow confence.
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: Slipping and she lost. Though I did like it.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: I liked that too.
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: That was unpredicted, that was not what I expected.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I liked that too, But also yeah, I like
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: I like I said, I want to come back and
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: revisit this deadpan woman thing because I don't think it's wrong.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: I think it's really fun to see a character like
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: this who is stoic and all those things. But there
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: is we can't ignore that. Yeah, that's typically more of
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: a masculine thing, and right, all of this seems like.
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: It's mel gaze and I speaking of that, I definitely
• 26:43
  Speaker 4: saw a TikTok. And when men write women being strong,
• 26:46
  Speaker 4: yes literally like stoic, deadpan and being angry but like
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: seating but fighting the type of and if you're feminine,
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: that's not a heroin right.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we'll have to come back and talk about that.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: I do think that these characters are wonderful and I
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: think that should be a a fine thing to.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: Do, but we can't. Yeah, there's so much other stuff,
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: so much other stuff in the background. But yeah, this
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: is a really fun one to research, and.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: I honestly this is a longer one of these episodes,
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: and I narrowed it down, like.
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: A lot of things.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: About this, So maybe we'll come back in one day
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: revisit it. There's so much out there if you want
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: to read more about her. But she's Yeah, she was
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: a fun character to research.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: I liked it.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: In the meantime. I do got a lot of character
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: just coming up. But if you've got one that's burning
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: in the back of your brain, listeners, please let us know.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: You can email us Stephania mom stuff at iHeartMedia dot com.
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: You can find us on Twitter at most step Podcasts,
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: or on Instagram at stuff When Never Told You.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: Thanks as always to our super producer christ Do you.
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: Know another incredible woman?
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: Yes, indeed, and thanks to you for listening Stuff When
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: I Ever Told you the production of iHeartRadio. For more
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: podcast from My Heart Radio, you can check out the
• 27:53
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• 27:55
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