Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Eddie & Jon Arnold about their choice of Midnight

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Talks to Eddie & Jon Arnold about their choice of Midnight · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  Hamster with a blump pen knife for doing quicker.
• 0:36
  Welcome back to a Hamster with a Blump pen Knife, the Doctor Who
• 0:40
  Commentary Podcast. Now we're breaking the formula
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  today. The old people are out and the
• 0:47
  young people are in at well, kind of we're going
• 0:52
  intergenerational because I have got a Doctor Who fan and son on
• 0:58
  the call today. So the only opinions that will
• 1:01
  count will be the son on the call today, Mr. John Arnold.
• 1:05
  Hello. Hello.
• 1:07
  How are you? Oh.
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  Nice restful day today. Thank you very much.
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  And how are you doing? I'm doing very, very well,
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  although I may not be doing so well in about an hour even.
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  Who's on the call with us? Well, good segue and more
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  excitingly sorry John, More importantly, we have got Eddie
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  with us here today. Hello, Eddie.
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  Hello. How are you doing today?
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  I'm doing brilliantly, thank you.
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  Eddie, I've got a big question to ask you before we even talk
• 1:37
  about the story we're going to discuss, and that is how did I
• 1:41
  don't know how young people find Doctor Who these days?
• 1:43
  How did you find Doctor Who and how much Doctor Who have you
• 1:46
  watched? I was forced into it from birth
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  because my father could not help watching it and my mother as
• 1:52
  well because I was just around the time series 4 star to
• 1:56
  broadcast and like just months before that I was born.
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  So saying they had me in the right from the get go.
• 2:04
  If you're with him, chances are you are not going to escape
• 2:07
  Doctor Who. So basically it was a foregone
• 2:10
  conclusion that you was going to be a fan?
• 2:12
  Yeah. Yeah, unfortunately.
• 2:14
  And I know the answer to this, but the people listening don't.
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  How much of Doctor Who have you watched?
• 2:20
  Everything. Everything the classic series
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  and the new series. Yes, everything, including
• 2:25
  missing. What including the
• 2:28
  reconstructions? Not reconstruction, but I've
• 2:30
  done the audios of them. The animations.
• 2:34
  Yeah, animations too. Can I say you've done more
• 2:37
  homework for this podcast then than practically any other
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  person that comes on because a lot of them have got gaps in
• 2:43
  their knowledge. So thank God I've got finally
• 2:45
  got a professional on the call. What's in doing the marathon
• 2:52
  through? What were your favorite periods
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  of Doctor Who there? You've seen people know what my
• 2:56
  marathon was. Oh yeah, go on, tell us.
• 3:00
  Basically last year in 2024, I did a watch of the whole show
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  during my GCSE year, which was obviously a very sensible
• 3:07
  decision to do. I did pause down a little to
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  only two stories a week in that period.
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  But after that and before that, I was sort of doing it whatever
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  pace that. Yeah.
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  So favorite periods. It's like 2nd doctor.
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  I'm absolutely a sucker for everything that well, most of it
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  there could say that it's obviously like a few duds here.
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  But what I will say is I've been told that in the season 5
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  podcast, you dumped the abominable snowman.
• 3:35
  I was not happy with that decision.
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  I'm. So sorry.
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  You want to hear what you said about Dylan Reece.
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  It's great. I mean, to be fair though,
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  Eddie, you are right about Dylan Reece.
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  That's it. Yeah, because I absolutely love
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  the Fe and I love the environment of Ebola, Wilson Men
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  and weirdly more than the Web of Fear as well, but yeah.
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  Do you those those black and white stories then?
• 4:00
  I'm so intrigued about this because obviously you are a
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  young watcher and a lot of young people are brought up on faster
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  television. Does the pace of that bother
• 4:09
  you? Because they are obviously a lot
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  slower than TV now. Yeah, I mean say it.
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  It usually depends like say I can handle it because they
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  obviously I've been I've been in the room before when he's been
• 4:20
  watching it. So say as as I have been grown
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  up, I have been getting a little bits of that in here and there.
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  Say this first time I've actually properly sat down and
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  paid attention to all of them. But yeah, so it was very
• 4:34
  enjoyable most of the time to say to be fair, I had to put up
• 4:38
  for again watching all the seven parts of Ambassador to Death the
• 4:43
  other day. So and I did not fall asleep
• 4:46
  through that. Well what when I was watching it
• 4:48
  on a plane. However, I may have fallen
• 4:50
  asleep during after 4, but we don't talk about that.
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  See, Toby Hadook is wrong there. It was very soothing on a plane
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  though, You know, sort of rocks you a little bit, doesn't it?
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  You know that's. Pretty sense to fall asleep.
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  Yeah, it rocks me when the brigade is shooting everyone in
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  that one it. Does Jesus.
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  Yeah, it's a bit savage that what?
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  What were your tricky periods then when you did your marathon?
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  What were the bits where you're like?
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  I'm not sure this is my era. I'll say I hadn't even finished
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  all the house but say tricky periods.
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  It's like say very, very, very like hot take here.
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  Someone will agree with this season 12.
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  Oh. Tricky.
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  Yeah, see season season 12. I just don't get along with most
• 5:32
  of the stuff they're like like Robot.
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  I do get along with Arc in Space.
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  I wanted to enjoy but didn't. Some time experiments too short
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  for me to actually get in much enjoyment.
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  Genesis. Happy 50th anniversary to it
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  today by the way. But I don't overrate it as much
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  as everyone else does. And Revenge of the Site, man I
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  used to like but has grown off me in recent years.
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  And then say also a bit more than you could fear.
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  But it's like say, Deadly Assassin is not big on me
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  either. Very boring, isn't it Very
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  boring? Yeah, exactly The Jungle
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  episode. Whether that was down to a
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  McDonald's order not arriving late and having to order
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  separately if I don't know, but. Yeah, that would make me cross
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  as well. John, you're sitting there
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  looking somewhat incandescent at all these opinions.
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  No, no, no. Oh no, no.
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  I thought worst period of when he was getting into Doctor Who,
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  he was obsessed with Series 2. So you know that first half.
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  Are you going, are you going to tell them that story from 2011?
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  I certainly am. Yeah.
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  So so sat there and he's obsessed with the second disc,
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  you know, which is School Reunion has Girl in the
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  Fireplace. And so I'm brilliant, obviously.
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  And he was re watching that over and over.
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  Unfortunately, the day it happened, a certain cast member
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  known as Elizabeth Laden happened to die.
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  So the news that broke and he was watching it, School reunion
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  repeatedly. I was in tears.
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  I had to ask him to stop watching it as well.
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  Did I? I think he moved on to Girl in
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  the Fireplace and yeah, and those early DVDs are absolutely
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  wrecked, scratched to hell, used.
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  They have had the hell watched out of them.
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  He absolutely minded for everything he could get.
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  Just to say, I would not approve of my actions nowadays.
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  I'm very careful about how all the other classic DVDs that
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  aren't tracked and placed. We've got no way of watching
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  Cara the Zygon now with it being off iPlayer and our disk being
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  scratched. Oh boy, I'll send you a copy.
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  I mean please don't scratch the Blu rays, they're so expensive
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  to replace those. Yeah, so I have no intention on
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  scratching the collection box set.
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  Something that you may have an intention of scratching though.
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  Tonight is the episode that we're going to talk about, which
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  is series Fours Midnight. An interesting choice because
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  can I confess I straight away this is one of my favorite
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  episodes of Doctor Who of all time.
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  But go on, John, you want to say something?
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  Then Oh no, no, I, I'm with, I'm with you.
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  I, I think it's fantastic. It's brilliant.
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  It's horror. It's probably the ultimate
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  Horror Story in Doctor Who's Done.
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  So, Eddie, can you please tell us what where we're going wrong?
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  Well, see, since I've been watching it as I was a child,
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  you know, most people probably be freaked out by the way that
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  Sky's looking around everywhere and whatnot.
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  But say when I was watching it and thinking people arguing, I
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  was just like, this just feels like an average crowd in London
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  or something. And it just genuinely felt like
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  so normal to hear like out and about, like just people talking.
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  It's like I was probably also always more into the action sort
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  of stuff. So it's like, when's the action
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  going to kick in? What when they're just going to
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  stop repeating stuff? It's like say just stop talking,
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  kill someone or something. And so in the other direction
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  and well, something in Series 4 that you would point out and
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  say, yeah, that's. Kind of viewed.
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  Oh, I mean action. You've got plenty there, haven't
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  you? He's got a.
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  Massive Ood fan favorite monster.
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  He's told Stephen Moffat that as well, and Moffat told him he was
• 9:28
  wrong. Yeah, you told him that.
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  The last, not last Gallifrey, but whatever the Gallifrey he
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  was at before. 2018. 2018 there you go.
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  May I say that that in recent years or in recent years the
• 9:44
  Yeti may have topped but yeah, because I grew quite a faction
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  from some of the season 5 months is.
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  Is there space in the new series for the Getty?
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  Yes, absolutely. I hope so.
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  It makes me gutted seeing that they brought back the Great
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  Intelligence three whole bloody times and not one of them
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  involved any sort of thing with the Yeti.
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  The only thing we get to reference it London Underground.
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  Would it be the big cuddly Yeti from the Bombing Snowmen, or the
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  sort of scarier ones with the glowing eyes from The Web
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  Affair? What, you mean the ones with
• 10:22
  little plastic dots on their face?
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  That's the one. I prefer the cuddly ones to say
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  that, Like say, the fact that you can't see any emotion in
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  eyes or whatever sort of makes them more daunting and it's just
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  fact that it's such such a large environment and there's almost
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  nobody there with them that makes it.
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  Awesome for for my part, the reason I really like Midnight is
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  because it's a very unusual Doctor Who episode, just
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  cramming all those characters in a small space.
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  And for me, it's sort of the same conclusion that 28 Days
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  Later comes to is that the monsters, the zombies, whatever
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  are attacking, that's not the scary thing in that space.
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  It's. The zombies on scaring 28 Days
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  Later. I cannot go near that film
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  because of the zombies. But but towards the end, it's
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  the soldiers that are more scary right as the people.
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  And I have a a living fear of being in a crowd of people where
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  it gets ugly, you know, and brutal and they all turn on each
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  other. So for me, being inside this
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  shuttle would be my living nightmare.
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  John. What?
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  Oh, sorry, go on early. One thing I do like about
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  Midnight though, I do like the sats.
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  The sats are phenomenal and like all the CGI.
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  But then I will say I can't leave Christopher, accident him
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  from being a soldier into a soldier hater.
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  Yeah, John, Midnight. Midnight I am unashamedly,
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  totally pro Midnight. I say it's the ultimate horror
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  because the horror is in humanity.
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  It's it's the the monster, you know, the invisible thing we
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  don't see is basically a Macguffin to get to that kind of
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  exercise between a writer and actor that they absolutely love.
• 12:17
  You know, I know they produce this as a theatrical piece and I
• 12:20
  can absolutely see that how that would work.
• 12:23
  The real invisible enemy. Yeah.
• 12:27
  And Eddie with the separate areas of the new series.
• 12:32
  So, RTD Moffett Chipnall, you too, Were you quite favorable to
• 12:38
  the RTD era? So it really depends.
• 12:41
  It's like say chip know as you would see typically not my
• 12:47
  biggest here, but I am quite a big fan of like flux and quite a
• 12:51
  few after the series and the specials.
• 12:53
  And then it's like I go back and forth between like Moffat RTD
• 12:58
  likes it. I do wear like several the
• 13:00
  episodes in both of those areas. But series 5 is my favorite new
• 13:04
  2 series. Although when I ended up doing
• 13:07
  like a proper ranking of all the seasons and series, there was
• 13:11
  the only one in my top 10 from modern.
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  OK. What was your number one of all
• 13:16
  time then? Well, I'll say because I've just
• 13:21
  seen it so much and I love it because I've had influences from
• 13:25
  a certain from a certain Arnold named Jonathan season 25.
• 13:29
  But say like say other ones that are up there.
• 13:33
  I love season 16. Like say, every story there was
• 13:38
  just amazing. Oh.
• 13:40
  Fun. So 25 is number one, yeah.
• 13:43
  Yeah, 2025 is #1 but say I'm I'm not like someone else's opinion
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  of it. It's like no contest.
• 13:51
  Best that I can, I can debate reasons why season 16 may have
• 13:55
  best stories or say even season 13 that has my favorite story
• 13:59
  pyramids and Mars in it and then.
• 14:02
  I forget what we're doing for Tom Baker.
• 14:03
  We chose one for every doctor. Was it a Season 16 story?
• 14:07
  I don't remember. John.
• 14:13
  I'll have a look. Now it's like I said, he gave he
• 14:17
  gave me a list that I remember. I remember the Romans was on and
• 14:22
  then the Ice Warriors was one saying I don't remember there
• 14:26
  being one for pit we or anything like that.
• 14:31
  Oh. Deadly Assassin was on there for
• 14:33
  top. There isn't a pervy on there.
• 14:36
  Oh, we'll have to decide, one of those saying yeah.
• 14:39
  So are we going to try and do one for like every doctor?
• 14:42
  Of course, what if you're up for it?
• 14:43
  That's. Like the 8th Doctor because he's
• 14:45
  only got like one story. Two, he's got 2.
• 14:48
  About 5 minutes and one story. I feel like we should do the
• 14:51
  movie. You know, I'm sure we can all
• 14:53
  give a very interesting interpretation on that.
• 14:56
  Well, OK, before we press play then I'm going to ask you one
• 14:59
  last question, sort of pair of you, and that is David Tennant
• 15:04
  as Doctor Who. Now this is obviously a massive
• 15:06
  showcase for David Tennant. He gets a lot of acting to do in
• 15:10
  inverted commas. What do you think?
• 15:13
  Is he is he one of your favourites?
• 15:16
  I am not of the opinion that he is the best doctor.
• 15:19
  Patrick Troughton is the best doctor.
• 15:21
  Just putting it out there. Whilst tennis still good, he is
• 15:27
  not up there with my favourites. Obviously the one that mainly
• 15:33
  inspired from 2:11 is my second favorite.
• 15:37
  You've got to inspire from Patrick Troughton to do a good
• 15:39
  job, is what I say. I do, you know what I can you
• 15:43
  know, it's no such great secret anywhere that I'm not 11 is my
• 15:46
  least favorite, but I do completely understand anybody
• 15:50
  that loves him like he is pure the doctor.
• 15:55
  I don't understand what there is dislike about him.
• 15:58
  Oh, how long have you got? Wait till we do the 11th Doctor
• 16:01
  episode, and I shall. I'll come with a list, all
• 16:03
  right. Have we chosen an 11th Doctor?
• 16:05
  Yes. What are we doing now?
• 16:07
  Hungry earth and cold blood. Oh jeez.
• 16:09
  Yeah, I that's what I'll take. John David Tennant.
• 16:15
  I come and go on him. He can be brilliant.
• 16:17
  I mean I just watched last week, his Hamlet as well and he is so
• 16:22
  good on that. He has such a range on it, but I
• 16:29
  think a lot of the time with Doctor Who, he does fall back on
• 16:33
  a lot of familiar takes on the, I think, oh, the big cockney
• 16:39
  stuff and the big, big cockney, big hair, big gestures and isn't
• 16:44
  it marvellous and all that. And I just cut some of his
• 16:48
  lesser episodes where he's trying to kind of cover the
• 16:52
  deficiencies in script. That's where I I'm not that keen
• 16:56
  on him. But if he's sticking him
• 16:58
  something like human nature, something like this, Oh yes,
• 17:01
  please. It's great.
• 17:02
  And even in something like Partners in Crime with the
• 17:05
  comedy, he can play that if he's, you know, if he's not
• 17:08
  forcing it, hang. On what did you say?
• 17:11
  Big hair, big personality, over the top.
• 17:14
  No wonder I love him so much. Absolutely.
• 17:19
  What? So basically what you're saying
• 17:22
  is when he's vulnerable, he's good?
• 17:25
  I did prefer him second time range as well I have to say.
• 17:29
  I think there's something to that, what you just said there,
• 17:32
  Eddie. I think when he's vulnerable,
• 17:34
  when he is and like an egomaniac and shouting his head off, the
• 17:39
  subtlety is kind of lost a bit. But when, like in this, where
• 17:42
  he's out of control, he's in a situation that he tries to
• 17:45
  control and then realizes he's crossed the line with people
• 17:49
  because he does this all the time.
• 17:50
  What he does in this episode, he does all the time, right?
• 17:53
  Takes control of the room, tells people what to do, makes
• 17:56
  himself, you know, the heart of the room.
• 17:59
  None of them were impressed by that Here are they?
• 18:02
  I thought you just said you take control of the womb.
• 18:06
  Well, he would try. He would try.
• 18:09
  It worked on at least one guest star, didn't it?
• 18:11
  Well, yes, yes, indeed. I've watched that recently.
• 18:15
  You know, I wasn't as down on it as I thought I would be.
• 18:18
  Well, should we watch this thing and see and see what on earth we
• 18:21
  can drag out from this chamber? Piece Well, I'll also say one
• 18:25
  more thing with the human nature point are you?
• 18:29
  I did take a while to grow on that because I do quite like it,
• 18:32
  but I'm not sure how much of it is down to David Tennant's
• 18:35
  performance. Can say obviously, I think as
• 18:37
  some of the doctors would complain as I've heard them
• 18:39
  complain, like say Doctor Who's meant to be a hero to them and
• 18:43
  idolizing them because it's a hero without guns so I can play
• 18:47
  it. But when he's vulnerable, that
• 18:49
  makes him less like heroic so he's not as good.
• 18:53
  So say that's like we're I'm on the opinion he's just, yeah,
• 18:58
  he's bad. We can toss him away.
• 19:02
  Savage, but I love it. No, I'm not a savage, actually.
• 19:09
  Let's find out. Then well then why am I not on
• 19:12
  the savages planet? Oh well done.
• 19:15
  Do I click play now? Well, I'll tell you what, I will
• 19:18
  count us in in three seconds. 3/2 one and off we go.
• 19:26
  So you like this stuff, Eddie? You like the CGI at the start?
• 19:30
  Love love the CGI at the start. Like that's peaceful.
• 19:34
  It's like this pool as well with Donna getting served.
• 19:40
  I get the impression that's what the pool was supposed to look
• 19:42
  like in Paradise Towers, but yeah.
• 19:46
  It wouldn't be as cold as it when in Paradise Towers I
• 19:49
  suspect. And it's not as robot Sharky.
• 19:52
  And well, yes, that is a problem.
• 19:55
  I mean, even now CJ is not bad at the shuttle there, is it?
• 19:57
  I know it's dated a bit. But RIP the mill of course.
• 20:03
  Lesson. Oh yeah, they just got kicked
• 20:05
  off recently. Didn't.
• 20:06
  Know, yeah. Have they really?
• 20:09
  Environment. Yeah, me too.
• 20:12
  It looks like an outer Space Centre.
• 20:13
  Parks. I would go, yeah.
• 20:17
  And the paper is so old fashioned as well.
• 20:21
  Get that? It looks like she's got a Bloody
• 20:23
  Mary as well. Well, it's Donna, of course.
• 20:26
  She's got a Bloody Mary. Extra vodka.
• 20:28
  And then epic green screen fails.
• 20:31
  Go on. The epic green screen fail
• 20:34
  before the title sequence. Yeah, and why on earth would you
• 20:38
  ever say what could possibly go wrong?
• 20:41
  The green screen could go wrong. Yeah, exactly.
• 20:44
  It'd be the best Christmas wolfhood's ever had.
• 20:47
  It's basically that, isn't it? Do you like do you like the idea
• 20:53
  of this contained setting though?
• 20:54
  It's what is it bus under siege really, isn't it?
• 20:57
  Rather than base, it's. Room I'm a sucker for most base
• 21:01
  on the siege to like say obviously Pyramid to Mars is a
• 21:03
  base on the siege. I'm a sucker for Pyramid to
• 21:05
  Mars. And Trenton as well.
• 21:08
  You're a big Trenton fan. Season 5 is basically the base
• 21:12
  under siege season. I mean, I've heard some people
• 21:15
  say the design of this looks miserable.
• 21:18
  This makes Southern Rail look like this is luxury compared to
• 21:22
  a some rail train, I'm telling you.
• 21:25
  Honestly, I really love the interior design of the bus as
• 21:28
  well. It's like, say, one thing this
• 21:30
  episode did do well is the design.
• 21:33
  Yeah, I don't think it's meant to be expensive.
• 21:35
  It's meant to be that kind of tacky old.
• 21:37
  It runs around all the time. It's just a standard journey for
• 21:41
  them. This feels like what Muffler was
• 21:45
  saying it galley like a couple weeks ago.
• 21:47
  How it's like, because this in on paper feels like it wouldn't
• 21:53
  be an expensive episode of Doctor Who, but with all the CGI
• 21:56
  and all the set billing or not, it is an expensive episode of
• 21:59
  Doctor Who anyway. As he said, there's no such
• 22:01
  thing as an unexpensive episode. I mean, the the director still
• 22:06
  got to find exciting ways to shoot this cramped space.
• 22:08
  And it's a female director. It's Alice Trouten that does
• 22:11
  this one. Unbelievably, she did the
• 22:13
  Doctor's daughter earlier in the season.
• 22:16
  So like, talk about chalk and cheese.
• 22:19
  She doesn't keep in track of the directors she.
• 22:22
  Does she does get a lot out of that sequence with Georgia and
• 22:25
  the flip flopping though, doesn't she?
• 22:26
  So, you know, she does well with what she's got.
• 22:29
  I think of that are. You implying George is wearing
• 22:31
  flip flops in The Doctor's Daughter?
• 22:34
  Well, she's not wearing heels, is she?
• 22:39
  Right. OK.
• 22:39
  So this is a fairly prestige cast here, isn't it?
• 22:44
  Like this is like a who's who of who's on TV at the time.
• 22:49
  Isn't that always what Doctor Who is?
• 22:50
  Yes. It should be, yeah.
• 22:53
  They go Merlin, Then you go. Oh, Leslie.
• 22:55
  Leslie Sharp came to Leslie Sharp, obviously.
• 22:57
  But I remember one day I was looking through like some old
• 23:02
  films, like old British films or whatnot on Lessbox, and I was
• 23:05
  like, I'll, I'll take a look and click on some costumes and I
• 23:08
  love me. Stop until I get someone who's
• 23:09
  on Doctor Who and I can stop quite quickly there.
• 23:13
  Who did you find, Do you remember?
• 23:15
  No, I don't remember what all, but I think it was one that he'd
• 23:17
  reviewed. Tell.
• 23:20
  Drivers, you've been here in 10 seconds flat.
• 23:23
  That's an experienced Doctor Who fan.
• 23:25
  Now, Eddie, I expect you to know the answer to this question.
• 23:28
  All right, So tell me the other stories that David Trouten has
• 23:32
  appeared in. The the only other stories that
• 23:35
  I know of a Trouten's appeared in this last Christmas.
• 23:39
  Oh, like a Trouten's appeared in.
• 23:41
  Oh, that's Michael Trouten isn't.
• 23:43
  It I don't I don't know specifics like.
• 23:47
  There's one incredible. Every time the cast members are.
• 23:50
  He's 1 uncredited with his dad and there's one I don't like the
• 23:57
  sequel to it. What?
• 24:01
  Oh yeah, He's in the peloton stuff, isn't he?
• 24:03
  Yes, yeah. He's changed a bit since then,
• 24:06
  hasn't he? Just.
• 24:10
  I remember, I remember hearing this, but say, was it?
• 24:13
  I some stuff has bounced out of my head because like, say, with
• 24:17
  everything that doctor has to offer, it's not like I'm going
• 24:19
  to remember every single little detail, unlike my father.
• 24:23
  Nor should you, Eddie. All right.
• 24:25
  It's very important to remember to have a life as well, unlike
• 24:28
  me and your father. If I was on a bus ride and there
• 24:33
  was these cartoons and music and all this playing, I would be
• 24:37
  getting off straight away. I'd be moaning.
• 24:40
  Yeah, I'd have the if the eye patch is straight down, I'd have
• 24:44
  the earphones. I was like no, bugger off.
• 24:46
  You'd have an eye patch on you, turn around in a Swiffer chair
• 24:48
  and. It's, you know, I don't know how
• 24:50
  old they are at this point that this is in the future.
• 24:54
  And it's just like you're watching old Betty Boo cartoons
• 24:56
  and old. Is it Eurovision?
• 24:59
  I think by the look of it. Well, let's just say it's like
• 25:04
  in the future, like a few years. I said, yeah, it's like in like
• 25:09
  20-30 or something. That fine.
• 25:12
  We go to planets like this in 20-30 and I can't wait.
• 25:16
  I I do like these scenes of them all getting on because you sort
• 25:20
  of have to establish that it's like a nice jolly atmosphere
• 25:24
  before things go very badly wrong and.
• 25:28
  I love Merlin in the background just going, Oh my God, I can't,
• 25:31
  that's that's. It that that scene is probably
• 25:34
  just thought it was like off for filming as well.
• 25:36
  They're probably all just having a laugh because they every time
• 25:40
  I've seen him behind the scenes with Doctor, it's always
• 25:42
  laughing. The commentaries are great as
• 25:45
  well, especially for this period.
• 25:46
  You get Catherine Tate, David Tennant, they're just laughing
• 25:49
  their heads off throughout the commentaries.
• 25:52
  Him went to Catherine. Would you ask Catherine Tate a
• 25:56
  question? Big stand up comedian.
• 25:59
  He went up and asked a question out there.
• 26:01
  What was it? How was it hosting the Doctor
• 26:05
  Who Proms? Can you imagine standing in
• 26:09
  front of all those people? Terrify me.
• 26:12
  No, me not. Yeah, there's a few other people
• 26:19
  I recognize here, you know. Oh, God.
• 26:21
  What's the young girl's name? Who's with the professor?
• 26:26
  Mysterious girl. Thank you.
• 26:29
  She is. I recognise her from the Bernie
• 26:31
  Summerfield audio. She did a whole run of them as a
• 26:34
  character called Ruth. But she's a good actress.
• 26:38
  Oh, that meal looks miserable, doesn't it?
• 26:40
  It's it's a microwave rubbish isn't?
• 26:43
  It every plain meal miserable. You've recently been on a plane.
• 26:47
  Do you speak from experience? Yes.
• 26:49
  OK. Oh God, a science lecture on the
• 26:52
  plane as. Well, imagine this on a on.
• 26:55
  A plane I I would just do what they do right at the end and
• 26:58
  just I've just launched myself right out that door annually
• 27:01
  like bye. I'm not waiting till the end of
• 27:03
  the episode. Chemistry lecture No.
• 27:07
  You'd probably be doing yourself a favour because things are
• 27:10
  about to get a bit scary. What if I just went to the
• 27:14
  bathroom for the whole and? Then come out and go.
• 27:17
  What happened? Did I miss something?
• 27:20
  Oh no, a few people got checked out.
• 27:22
  Oh, what a shame. Anyway, can we go back now?
• 27:24
  That's. Quite survival strategy, yeah.
• 27:27
  I found those people quite annoying.
• 27:28
  Anyway, never mind. Well they probably have like the
• 27:31
  seat belt safety sound and say please return to your seats
• 27:34
  whilst we are under this problem.
• 27:37
  Like what? What is super interesting is the
• 27:41
  characterization of all these guest characters and how that
• 27:44
  you sort of see all their strengths in the start.
• 27:46
  You know, how they're funny and how they're smart and then
• 27:50
  watching them all sort of crumble and they're different
• 27:53
  weaknesses. How the mother is a total
• 27:57
  control freak in the wrong situation, How Jethro tries to
• 28:00
  stir things up, how the professor tries to assert
• 28:04
  himself over the the girl he's with.
• 28:07
  It's really quite ugly, isn't it?
• 28:09
  Oh yeah, and and it's Sky being lonely and miserable and
• 28:14
  inflicting on everyone else essentially as well.
• 28:19
  I suppose the idea is, is there should be somebody to represent
• 28:23
  everybody watching here because we're supposed to think about
• 28:27
  what would we do in this situation?
• 28:30
  I would get. I would not board the plane
• 28:31
  because frankly, I was just staying in that pool the whole
• 28:35
  time. And to be honest, if I saw the
• 28:37
  doctor on there, I'd be like, no, I'm off here, something's
• 28:39
  going to happen. Not happening.
• 28:41
  Not happening. If you saw the doctor anywhere
• 28:43
  other than a convention, you would be like that.
• 28:47
  What, Eddie, what do you think about this bit in a minute then
• 28:49
  of where you know when the shutter comes up and you see the
• 28:52
  planet and then you just see a tiny glimpse of what's coming
• 28:57
  just very quickly, and then that's it.
• 29:00
  That's all you see for the episode.
• 29:01
  You don't actually get to sing the monster.
• 29:03
  Oh, yeah, Oh, yeah, I, I've seen, I've seen that little clip
• 29:07
  down. Isn't it just like a little like
• 29:08
  shadow thingy on the ground like that?
• 29:11
  It's really hard to notice because like, say, I had to wait
• 29:14
  until I saw some video on you saying like 10 doc 2 Easter
• 29:18
  eggs. You didn't notice.
• 29:19
  And it was just having like that on the thumbnail or whatever.
• 29:22
  So clicked on, found out about that and I was like, oh, so that
• 29:25
  happened. I didn't even notice for a
• 29:27
  while. I was just too sucked up
• 29:30
  watching this visuals. What's what's scarier than
• 29:35
  seeing the threat or not seeing the threat at all?
• 29:40
  It really depends on the episode, which is like say, if
• 29:42
  it's superbly written in my opinion, not like this episode,
• 29:47
  then it can be pulled off very well.
• 29:51
  Because like say in in my video the other day, I just written
• 29:54
  like for the Silerians for the whole first episode.
• 29:57
  We don't see them yet. It's like we can feel their
• 30:00
  threat, they're threatening presence coming through when
• 30:02
  it's like everything starts going wrongly at the mall.
• 30:05
  So that's when it's done well when it and then it's like say
• 30:10
  in Pyramids of Mars, we barely get anything to sue tech until
• 30:12
  like the end of or something. So he just appears in like 3
• 30:18
  places here and there, which does make that quite effective
• 30:21
  in it. And it's just some random old
• 30:23
  man walking around the house with some very clingy brother
• 30:26
  who can't get over the idea he's possessed.
• 30:28
  Get a hold of yourself you moron.
• 30:31
  He's very clingy, isn't he? I suppose because the execution
• 30:36
  in Doctor Who can be, let's say, hit or miss.
• 30:39
  Sometimes seeing it is a good thing, sometimes seeing it is a
• 30:43
  bad thing. What do you reckon, John?
• 30:47
  I, I think it's scary not to see what's coming.
• 30:49
  And again, I think the scariest thing is that you only see this
• 30:54
  when it's essentially possessing Leslie Sharp.
• 30:57
  So it's all in the so it is technically probably the
• 31:00
  cheapest Doctor Who monster of all time because you get you're
• 31:03
  getting Les Sharp and you get in the villain for 1/1.
• 31:06
  Fee, the cheapest monster of all time, was actually the edge of
• 31:10
  destruction because it was just the actors.
• 31:12
  Broken switch, yeah. Cheapest monster?
• 31:17
  And a set they already had, right?
• 31:19
  I mean, I guess that was the cheapest episode of Doctor Who
• 31:21
  we were talking about earlier. Oh.
• 31:23
  God yeah, Don 2 lbs in a dream. And a dream.
• 31:27
  Yeah, and a bunch of pictures on a screen.
• 31:29
  That's all you need. I've got to say though, the the
• 31:32
  sound effects now when you just hear the Bang, Bang, bang.
• 31:35
  Unfortunately we can't hear the sound effects though.
• 31:38
  Well, no, don't. Spoil the magic.
• 31:40
  I know. But yeah.
• 31:43
  Too bad, Too bad you're all living in a bubble.
• 31:45
  Burst the bubble. We can't hear anything.
• 31:50
  Pete, behind the scenes, much of people love that sort of thing.
• 31:53
  There you go. There he's trying to assert
• 31:55
  himself. Quiet he goes.
• 31:57
  I'm hamster unleashed and. There you go.
• 31:59
  The Doctor's a control freak. That's his weakness.
• 32:04
  Just imagine a hamster unleashed just behind the scenes of all
• 32:08
  the podcasts. It's just like all the little
• 32:09
  things that chat about like before after the cutting.
• 32:13
  I'll be too scared we'd be cancelled though.
• 32:15
  Eddie is the trouble. Show doesn't cut that much, I
• 32:18
  tell you. No, no, not really.
• 32:24
  Now look, they're all sort of looking at each other, aren't
• 32:26
  they? And what I do like about these
• 32:28
  early scenes is suddenly the camera sort of goes white out,
• 32:31
  then you see them all inside the space.
• 32:33
  It feels claustrophobic. I.
• 32:37
  Was like claustrophobic is a very loose definition because to
• 32:41
  me that does not feel claustrophobic.
• 32:43
  I just be burning up and down the aisle constantly.
• 32:45
  It's like for me, claustrophobic is like a very small space, like
• 32:50
  even falls in my little death glare out here.
• 32:53
  So actually like where it's like like pressuring down onto my
• 32:57
  body kind of thing to make me feel proper claustrophobic.
• 33:00
  But say it was like just a little vehicle or whatever, it
• 33:04
  doesn't make me feel that claustrophobic.
• 33:07
  Like say, unless there's a bajillion people, which in this
• 33:09
  case is something like 5 people or so.
• 33:11
  So is that a reason that it doesn't work for you Ed?
• 33:14
  Yeah, it's like, say, I don't feel any claustrophobia here.
• 33:18
  Yeah, I think the aisles on this are quite wide as well, which
• 33:21
  I've assumed is a technical matter, but yeah.
• 33:25
  And say the fact that like saying you've got to consider it
• 33:29
  with with this thing, it's like there could be aliens coming to
• 33:32
  midnight getting on as well. So say we don't know what shape
• 33:36
  or size they might be. So they may need more space to
• 33:39
  walk down the aisle as well. It could just be a late, a late
• 33:41
  person knocking on the door going hello, I've got my ticket,
• 33:44
  you know? Yeah, you, you're 40 kilometers
• 33:47
  out of the way where you should be.
• 33:49
  Come on. This is the Planet bus stop.
• 33:52
  Have slot the midnight entities your intention it was all along.
• 33:55
  It's just saying hey you're a bit out of range, get back on
• 33:57
  the right tracks and morons. I've heard that you allow you
• 34:01
  know great gods like Suitek to hitch a ride on your time
• 34:04
  spacecraft. Can I just get on board please?
• 34:07
  So. Actually, technically the TARDIS
• 34:12
  then how to achieve his top two months on top of it all the time
• 34:15
  saying he basically makes an appearance in every episode but
• 34:19
  it's just excuses. He's invisible, but he's there.
• 34:21
  He's. Not three times.
• 34:23
  Yeah, this knocking 3 times. All again.
• 34:26
  Although Eddie, I'll try and pretend that that whole Suite X
• 34:28
  thing on the side of this never happened, cough.
• 34:30
  Cough. How did The Big Bang not wake
• 34:33
  him up? A coffee wakes him up, but not
• 34:36
  the destruction of the entire universe?
• 34:39
  Doctor Who logic its finest. You can sleep through the
• 34:42
  destruction of the whole universe, so don't knock it.
• 34:45
  Did you say Doctor Who logic? I didn't think there wasn't it.
• 34:51
  Obvious. Obviously there isn't, because
• 34:53
  it contradicts itself all the time.
• 34:55
  Also, the moon is an egg, you know.
• 35:00
  And that's that's not. Actually, the moon on this
• 35:02
  podcast, because I'll just go off on your opinions about it
• 35:05
  again. Oh, OK.
• 35:06
  Why do you like that one? What was it?
• 35:08
  It's decent. I like it.
• 35:12
  I prefer like basically every other episode in that half of
• 35:14
  the Series A little more. It's official.
• 35:17
  That is the best episode of that half season decided.
• 35:20
  There's nothing official. I mean, for me, I think the
• 35:26
  claustrophobia here comes from the fact that they can't get
• 35:28
  away, right? Like like they are trapped.
• 35:31
  However large the spaces, they're trapped and clearly
• 35:34
  something malevolent has bad intentions towards them.
• 35:39
  Unless that's a very destructive way of saying hello it.
• 35:44
  Was just like hello can I join the ride as well?
• 35:46
  Sorry, I crashed the vehicle down.
• 35:48
  Can I? Just shake in the vehicle.
• 35:49
  Let me in, you know. Sorry, could I, could I just
• 35:55
  take over one of your passengers please?
• 35:58
  Well. I mean, so I just take over one
• 36:00
  of the passengers and and then repeat everything you're saying.
• 36:05
  Did I just see Rose Tyler on the screen there?
• 36:07
  Yeah, just when the doctors turned his back.
• 36:09
  What a bastard. What did you think about that,
• 36:13
  Eddie, about the sort of the drip feeding of Rose throughout
• 36:16
  the season? So it's like, say, obviously I,
• 36:21
  I have, I do like series arcs when they're done right.
• 36:25
  I've read through certain things about people who think series
• 36:28
  arcs can be done right or wrong, cough cough.
• 36:32
  Oh, you're savage. I love it.
• 36:34
  It's. Like saying that, that bit just
• 36:38
  felt like so far it's like we knew she was coming.
• 36:41
  I think by by the next episode I know that she's going to be
• 36:45
  there. Oh, what a shame.
• 36:47
  The doors opened. Everyone's getting blinded by
• 36:49
  lights. Yes, right.
• 36:53
  And there you go, drivers are all gone out the window.
• 36:55
  Off screen I do like a good off screen death, you know.
• 36:59
  Yeah. I feel like my imagination could
• 37:00
  do more than what they could show me.
• 37:02
  And I think that's why that works.
• 37:04
  I mean, how is that? How is the entity blown that
• 37:06
  out? Well, well, they've just got,
• 37:10
  they've just gotten their evil big hand and just sucked it
• 37:14
  apart like it's a leg. That's how they've done it.
• 37:16
  The Midnight debunked. Would it be more effective to
• 37:20
  see it? I don't know if it was.
• 37:23
  No, they, they get fried you and you've seen how many times
• 37:26
  you've seen people in Doctor Who get fried essentially just big
• 37:28
  light. No, you don't need it because
• 37:32
  it's instant, isn't it? That's the point of it.
• 37:34
  They're they're exposed to the atmosphere and that kind of
• 37:37
  reinforces the threat. So they shouldn't be
• 37:40
  claustrophobic, right? Well frankly they should just
• 37:42
  all be done by 1 glimpse of light because like say just look
• 37:45
  through all the classic heroes specifically like the earlier
• 37:47
  stuff they're all dying to flashy lights like say the ice
• 37:52
  world just killed them with like flashy lights and weird camera
• 37:55
  effects. Wibbly wobbly camera effects.
• 37:58
  I love it. I do like the lighting here,
• 38:00
  like the bit in the minute where she turns round and her hands
• 38:03
  are at her head. It's just the old fashioned
• 38:05
  Doctor Who techniques. Light the 60s with the lighting
• 38:09
  and the simple direction and the performance I.
• 38:13
  Mean she just looked like she's just her hangover.
• 38:16
  Do you speak from experience, Eddie?
• 38:18
  No, I should hope not. John does.
• 38:24
  Just a little. Yeah, unfortunately he does like
• 38:28
  staying up until until all the shops open outside.
• 38:33
  Until the sun comes up, Ed is a way to look at it.
• 38:36
  More. More.
• 38:37
  To put it, he has one civic person that keeps him up at
• 38:41
  conventions. It's not.
• 38:43
  Several. I have several one.
• 38:45
  Specific person this case though.
• 38:47
  Oh, I love that show. I will not name them.
• 38:51
  Just. For the sake of suspend, OK, but
• 38:55
  literally at the convention, it was like on Sunday night, yeah,
• 38:59
  I'll probably only do like a little one, go to bed like 1:00
• 39:02
  maybe. And then it's like I go, I get
• 39:05
  sleep at 11:00, wake up about 7:00.
• 39:08
  He's still not in the room. That's it.
• 39:12
  In his event he had text not to come in until a decent time that
• 39:16
  someone awake. But say I still don't pass that
• 39:20
  as an excuse. Just get to sleep, you will need
• 39:23
  it. Are you listening to this, John?
• 39:26
  All right, I'd be more responsible.
• 39:29
  I know he is responsible one, but anyway, we're missing a
• 39:32
  great bit of acting you from there's a sharp it's stillness
• 39:36
  of this. You should you should see on
• 39:37
  Sundays when when we go for when we go to his parents, I bash him
• 39:40
  all the time. They're at dinner table.
• 39:42
  Please, if you can bring more of these stories to our following
• 39:46
  commentaries, I'll be very grateful, All right.
• 39:49
  Oh, I will. I mean, I wasn't, I don't intend
• 39:51
  to just embarrass your father, but you know, it's.
• 39:54
  So it's his birthday coming up. I'll cancel any birthday
• 39:56
  present. Oh gosh.
• 39:57
  Your birthday coming up too. I'll cancel any birthday
• 39:59
  present. Domestic feels appropriate in
• 40:05
  this episode. Things get very domestic.
• 40:07
  I mean this bit now where they have to say the same dialogue
• 40:11
  together. Pad must have taken a bit of
• 40:13
  rehearsal, right? Oh, God, yeah.
• 40:14
  Particularly when they get to the complicated lines and when
• 40:17
  when they switch the different pacing of the repeats.
• 40:21
  That that one, the squirt of pies like Jesus.
• 40:25
  At the same pace as each other. Yeah, yeah.
• 40:30
  I just never got that. I just thought, well, she, she
• 40:37
  just repeating him. Oh, that's so scary.
• 40:40
  Not. But think how?
• 40:42
  Think how annoying it is when someone repeats back to you just
• 40:45
  everything you say and just keeps repeating.
• 40:46
  Are you speaking on experience of?
• 40:48
  Course I am. But that is interesting because
• 40:51
  RTD said, Oh yeah, that's something the children would
• 40:54
  understand. You know, that sort of sort of
• 40:56
  that annoying repeated thing. But you're saying that doesn't
• 40:58
  work for you, Eddie. So RTD's instincts possibly were
• 41:01
  wrong in this case. Say he can't.
• 41:05
  He couldn't comment on that as well because he was the child
• 41:07
  writing it was he? Well, that's very true.
• 41:10
  There wasn't a child for a long time.
• 41:12
  Actually, you know, he's a quite old man now.
• 41:14
  But well, yeah, so he's literally as old as Doctor Who,
• 41:18
  a few months older, but still basically saying like if you
• 41:22
  want to know what Doctor Whose age is, you'll know what RTDS
• 41:25
  age is as well. 1000 and something.
• 41:32
  Not logistically the doctor's age, but you know what I mean.
• 41:35
  I know what you mean, don't worry.
• 41:38
  Clearly my father never knows what I mean because he always
• 41:40
  tries to take it too literal, say.
• 41:45
  I love the way she's shot in this as well, just that low
• 41:48
  angle. She just looks very tired and
• 41:51
  grumpy to be honest. I mean, I mean, I do agree with
• 41:56
  John Bike as I'm seeing this from new eyes now, Eddie, you
• 41:59
  know? He's ruining.
• 42:02
  You're ruining it now. I'll always, I'll always love
• 42:05
  it. But I do love hearing the other
• 42:07
  side though, you know, I'm. Exposing the truth.
• 42:10
  Now, the truth is very subjective, you know.
• 42:14
  Well, yeah, truth is obviously subjective in Doctor Who, but
• 42:18
  say so. Some say kids can't seem to
• 42:21
  handle that with the fact that we've got a 13th, 14th and 15th
• 42:24
  doctor and that one of them is a woman and that one of them is
• 42:26
  black. Some of them cannot seem to
• 42:28
  handle that, maybe because they're a bit too fragile to
• 42:30
  handle that and they're a. Bit about I don't understand at
• 42:34
  all. Me neither.
• 42:35
  The diversity is glorious. Because they want a reason to
• 42:40
  take on Doctor Who. Because they can't think of any
• 42:41
  best, any best thing to take on, and because they've got nothing
• 42:44
  better going on in their life. Because they're miserable souls.
• 42:48
  I mean, I think you've just summed out rather well there.
• 42:50
  Thank you. And if any of you are listening,
• 42:53
  turn off now. We don't want you all right?
• 42:59
  Like I hear the story of that sort of exact situation where
• 43:03
  it's like say someone meant to go meet tenant or something, I
• 43:07
  don't remember which doctor it was.
• 43:08
  Is he tenant went to meet one of them and that person didn't like
• 43:14
  the doctors after then I think yeah, it was 10 and after who
• 43:17
  said if you don't like one of us, you don't like all of her.
• 43:20
  Oh. That's a good answer.
• 43:23
  That is a good answer. They all play the same character
• 43:26
  so. I heard of Peter Capaldi being
• 43:31
  asked who is your favorite Doctor?
• 43:33
  And he very pointedly said Jodie Whittaker to make that point
• 43:38
  that, you know, I, I, I was the Doctor.
• 43:41
  And I know you guys like me and I love her.
• 43:44
  Colin did the same as well. Yeah, he's frequently done that.
• 43:48
  I find the mother so scary in this because she's the most
• 43:54
  feral of all of them. She she goes nuts almost as soon
• 43:58
  as the repeating starts, doesn't she?
• 43:59
  And when she goes at one point it'll be you, next you know
• 44:03
  she's literally picking off 1 by 1 in her head.
• 44:07
  Yeah. And and obviously this is this
• 44:09
  is kind of AI think there's a media analogy in here as well.
• 44:13
  Obviously, the the way we get our media is, you know,
• 44:18
  essentially the papers and it feeds the BBC, it feeds the
• 44:20
  broadcasters. They talk that CAS talk point
• 44:22
  and that rolls and rolls. Even in a.
• 44:24
  That's how you can't. Say media studies.
• 44:26
  Can I? No, you can't, because he's
• 44:29
  doing that at a level. So.
• 44:32
  So we can't get some. Excessive talking points.
• 44:34
  This is why it's one of these horrors because it does kind of
• 44:37
  predate Brexit because, you know, before 2016 or so, it
• 44:42
  wasn't a particular talking point.
• 44:44
  And then you get the talking point of immigration.
• 44:46
  There's a huge spike in in the early twenty 10s in in the polls
• 44:51
  about how immigration becomes as an issue because it starts
• 44:54
  getting pushed. And this is what this episode's
• 44:57
  about. It's about it pushes buttons,
• 45:00
  you know, and the the little things that you blame, the
• 45:05
  irritate, minor irritations of life, you blame them and it uses
• 45:08
  that to widen cracks to in the community here.
• 45:12
  And it's, you know, it's only a little kind of artificial
• 45:14
  community in this episode, but that's how this works.
• 45:17
  It just it's, it's like it gets in the cracks, shoves a knife
• 45:20
  and and widens them to fissures. But it's the.
• 45:24
  And I get where you're coming from, but I don't get where
• 45:26
  you're coming from. The mum is like apparently the
• 45:29
  most fragile character start with, but by the end she's sort
• 45:32
  of controlling everybody. She's picking at her husband's
• 45:36
  insecurity, saying what sort of a man are you?
• 45:39
  She's threatening her own son. You know, I just think she's
• 45:43
  really under the performance is good.
• 45:45
  She's she's kind of, she gets very aggressive.
• 45:50
  Why didn't they just let the whole cast go out and do a
• 45:53
  shuttle anyway? Like just all of them.
• 45:55
  I get rid of you, your only side characters.
• 45:57
  We don't need you anyway. Well, I'll be very short episode
• 46:02
  though. Yeah, but so right at the end
• 46:04
  when the Hostess is getting rid of Sky, why don't you just take
• 46:08
  the whole whole side cast with like just get like a just get
• 46:14
  like a third, 4th, 5th, 6th hand and whatnot and just grab them
• 46:18
  all, take them out with you. And what are you saying?
• 46:20
  Because they're all so terrible by the end of it?
• 46:23
  Well, I suppose that is true. Are you endorsing a very small
• 46:26
  massacre then, Eddie? Well, maybe.
• 46:32
  I mean, you said you like a bit of action, you know?
• 46:34
  Yeah, so it would be more interesting than whatever is
• 46:37
  going on right now for me is like all I says, he just sat on
• 46:40
  shouting at group random people about a random lady who's just
• 46:43
  being weird and repeating stuff and say that that just comes off
• 46:47
  as like, oh, that just feels like he's going insane.
• 46:51
  I know that's the point I feel, but it just feels like he's
• 46:53
  going insane and he needs to go and get some therapy.
• 46:57
  I mean yes, the 10th doctor definitely needs some therapy.
• 47:02
  We do well. He gets therapy later, but not
• 47:05
  in this form, but when he's just David Tennant but older.
• 47:10
  I think like this particular moment, though is in the right
• 47:14
  situation. And I know your answer said
• 47:16
  because you literally just said it is would you throw someone
• 47:20
  out of that shuttle? Would you murder somebody if you
• 47:22
  were in this situation? And that's that's pretty.
• 47:26
  Heavy If I if realistically I was there and say I probably
• 47:32
  wouldn't do anything because I probably wouldn't have the heart
• 47:35
  to throw anyone out there. But say like, say, for the
• 47:39
  purpose of the fact that I'm not there and I'm watching this it
• 47:42
  from the comfort of my own home, yes, I'll throw all from out
• 47:45
  there. What's great is the the
• 47:47
  stewardess who saw the one there to help everyone out, she's the
• 47:52
  first one to say I'll do it. And she.
• 47:58
  Yeah, And the way she ends up doing, she throws herself out
• 48:02
  essentially to do it. It's like, wow, she she does her
• 48:05
  job essentially in the in the most extreme possible way.
• 48:10
  If we if we put in because like I do, because if we refer to Sky
• 48:16
  with the midnight monster tied to it as the trash, then she is
• 48:19
  taking out the trash. Nice.
• 48:22
  I don't want to get on the wrong side of you, you know.
• 48:27
  I do. I do love this because the
• 48:28
  Doctor, he's essentially there to try and save everybody.
• 48:31
  So it's like Steven Moffat puts it, he's the guy who keeps
• 48:35
  everyone safe, and this is challenging his ability to do
• 48:39
  that. That's the whole point of this
• 48:41
  this sequence. She just said the line you said
• 48:43
  there, John. She goes what, as in an
• 48:45
  immigrant about the doctor. But I suppose so.
• 48:51
  So there is a line here. Yeah.
• 48:52
  Between John, who is above me on the call, and Eddie, who is
• 48:56
  below me on the call where, you know, this is a kind of an adult
• 49:01
  piece where it's, it's dealing with an extreme situation and
• 49:05
  characters behaving in it. Clearly 1/2 of the call here
• 49:10
  finds that riveting. Another half of the call finds
• 49:14
  that very boring. I'm the opposite, wearing
• 49:17
  because I'm on the top for. Oh, OK.
• 49:22
  See with Eddie as well we could talk about he doesn't tend to
• 49:26
  prefer the the ones that are more adult for obvious reasons.
• 49:29
  So you know he is not a big fan of Heaven Sent He's.
• 49:33
  Not as big of Eddie Bravo. Heaven, yeah, heaven sent it
• 49:38
  says. You just like say, because say
• 49:41
  I'm getting I'm getting bashed out in film saying you can't
• 49:46
  just have one character talking to himself for so long.
• 49:49
  And I only had him talking to himself for like a few seconds.
• 49:52
  Well, so I just shove it in your face.
• 49:54
  But Stephen Moffett had a character talking to himself
• 49:56
  basically a whole 45 minutes. Hour.
• 50:01
  Yeah, it was an old man walking around a castle with it.
• 50:03
  How boring. It's like, it's like, say, I can
• 50:08
  appreciate that other people like it, but it's like, say,
• 50:11
  there's not much going on. It's like, say if so it's like I
• 50:16
  do like, I do like the Empire with like the music where he's
• 50:19
  bashing the walls, like say that that music just makes it feel
• 50:24
  more actionist. So say I'm happy with that.
• 50:26
  But it's like say when he's just like sitting around like oh I'm
• 50:30
  so depressed that my companion just died yet again after losing
• 50:34
  1 literally a few seasons ago because I've got a right who
• 50:38
  likes killing off the companions for no apparent reason.
• 50:40
  Even though he said at Cali he does not like killing off
• 50:43
  people. He.
• 50:44
  Gives half to life, that's what. He does.
• 50:48
  You talk a lot more sense than your dad.
• 50:50
  You know about the scene of Moffit era.
• 50:54
  It's like he he said he doesn't like actually killing him off,
• 50:58
  but they he basically kills all the companions off, but with A
• 51:01
  twist. It's like, I did not, I did not
• 51:04
  approve of Joy's death and joy to the world.
• 51:06
  I was like, I've already felt bad for her because like she
• 51:11
  was, she was suffering with her mum dying over a Zoom call.
• 51:15
  But like, think you do that and then you're like, yeah, she's so
• 51:19
  depressed that she's having stuff hard.
• 51:21
  How about you make it even hard of her by killing?
• 51:24
  It's called having your cake and eating it, isn't it?
• 51:28
  I don't like doing that sort of thing, but I'm going to do it
• 51:30
  anyway and then I'm going to rewrite it.
• 51:33
  Like, say the only actual like companion death or whatever that
• 51:37
  actually affected me though is like the Amy and Rory one.
• 51:40
  Because like I say, I think that part was just like so
• 51:42
  brilliantly written, even though ironically they wanted it to be
• 51:46
  the most like way they could never return ever.
• 51:51
  But it's like, there's so many ways you could get round it.
• 51:53
  It's like, Oh no, the TARDIS can't come back here yet.
• 51:56
  What if you just get a cab from another state?
• 52:01
  Hang on. I need you on all these Muffet
• 52:03
  episodes. You know, you speak some very
• 52:05
  good sense. Oh this this now about sky
• 52:11
  talking behind the doctor in terms of pace and then matching
• 52:15
  up with him and then talking before him so essentially like
• 52:19
  stealing his identity. I think that's very scary, I.
• 52:24
  Almost forgot what you're talking about midnight for a
• 52:26
  second. It's it's the doctor's voice.
• 52:30
  That's the this doctor's kind of power.
• 52:32
  It's words. He's all about the words.
• 52:34
  He's all about gambling. He can always talk his way
• 52:36
  through a situation. So it's the idea here to take
• 52:38
  his power away from him, then to take his his biggest strength.
• 52:42
  Yeah, take it and turn to turn that strength against him.
• 52:45
  How does he cope on that and he doesn't?
• 52:48
  Like you may well, I mean you see throughout the whole show
• 52:51
  before it that he just gets through everything by somehow
• 52:54
  talking because like he can just somehow defeat a villain that
• 52:58
  guns can't by just saying oh please change for good or naff
• 53:02
  off and go kill yourself. And then they do either become
• 53:06
  good or naff off and go kill themselves.
• 53:09
  I won't say the line in the extreme seriousness, but I think
• 53:11
  the exact line is Make yourself the man who never would.
• 53:16
  Isn't that what he says in The Doctor's Daughter, even though
• 53:20
  he's frequently the man who does?
• 53:24
  Well, I don't know, because I particularly I don't remember
• 53:29
  specific bits of dialogue. Usually it's like say I can
• 53:32
  remember an episode overall but it's like saying if you ask me
• 53:35
  like 1 bit of dialogue from say like savages.
• 53:38
  The only thing I could probably name is like, goodbye Steven.
• 53:45
  The important thing about that story?
• 53:48
  That will probably change in a couple weeks when the animation
• 53:50
  comes out. I don't tend to remember about
• 53:54
  the the animations and whatnot that or the audio ones that
• 53:59
  much. I mean I remember the animation
• 54:02
  like audio ones. I just tend to forget unless
• 54:04
  they really stand out to me. Like Ducks, Masked Fan and Marco
• 54:07
  Polo absolutely stood out to me. But it's like, say, if you ask
• 54:10
  me something about the Highlanders, I cannot name you
• 54:13
  anything other than Ben nearly drowns.
• 54:16
  Or I couldn't even name you that if I'm honest.
• 54:18
  But my cousin can name me. The doctor slams the guy's head
• 54:21
  into a table. I can name you that.
• 54:25
  One I don't. Remember, the way they pin this
• 54:28
  or this is so, it's so real because I see this all the time
• 54:33
  in my life. Yeah.
• 54:34
  People making a scapegoat of somebody and sort of picking on
• 54:38
  one person and making it their fault.
• 54:42
  Yeah, a group of people will do this.
• 54:45
  Yeah. I find it a bit uncomfortable.
• 54:48
  I see it at work sometimes. I see it in my social life, you
• 54:51
  know, making a scapegoat of somebody.
• 54:53
  And obviously they choose the doctor on this occasion.
• 54:58
  As well see, you think like because obviously I've been at
• 55:01
  school so I've had like the experience of a school bully.
• 55:05
  You think I'd relate to this more, but no, I'm completely the
• 55:08
  opposite. Yeah, I mean, this is, I mean,
• 55:11
  you could make an argument that this is a like a treatise on
• 55:15
  bullying, couldn't you? I love that there's this
• 55:19
  dissent, there are dissenting voices here as well that just so
• 55:22
  it's not that whole group turns at once.
• 55:25
  It's really nice that it's slow. It adds a bit of tension to it.
• 55:30
  You don't think it's going? He's frozen in the ABS, he can't
• 55:33
  move, can he? So it then comes to a point
• 55:36
  where they literally drag him. This to this point or at this
• 55:42
  point, Sky just feels like the school bully to me.
• 55:44
  And when I hear school bully, I think of one word twat so well
• 55:48
  done. He just feels like that
• 55:51
  essentially. But and then you just got the
• 55:54
  doctor knitting down, crying, staring at a wall.
• 55:57
  It's like, why are you crying at a wall and you're just speaking
• 56:00
  after someone's feet. Like alternatively,
• 56:03
  alternatively, I have a way to come back.
• 56:05
  The midnight monster. Just don't talk.
• 56:08
  Well, yes, that that would be a solution.
• 56:11
  But she's doing what a school bully would do, right?
• 56:13
  She is throwing suspicion on somebody.
• 56:16
  She is making a scapegoat somebody.
• 56:18
  She's just saying little things about how he's behaving.
• 56:21
  She's playing the victim. It's absolutely how a school
• 56:24
  bully behaves. The interesting thing here is
• 56:28
  that the people who are dissenting from the group are
• 56:31
  the different ethnicities. Yes.
• 56:35
  And what for a bit and then they're and then they're finally
• 56:39
  all on board. So it's saying, it's saying a
• 56:43
  lot about just society getting on and how certain people will
• 56:47
  understand that kind of exclusionary attitude.
• 56:51
  I will say frankly, if I was there, I wouldn't be like
• 56:54
  everyone else. Just and not bothering with any
• 56:57
  sort of like just talking, arguing each other.
• 57:01
  I would just be trying to drag Sky to the ground and kicking
• 57:04
  her in the face. I love the way she looks so
• 57:07
  triumphant here as well. It's that kind of lighting on
• 57:10
  it. That does remind me of a school
• 57:12
  bully very heavily. It's like.
• 57:14
  Yeah, please take this life advice with you, Eddie, OK?
• 57:16
  You should not kick a woman in the face, all right?
• 57:19
  Well, unless, unless they are not a woman and they're actually
• 57:22
  the Midnight entity. Oh fair game then.
• 57:24
  Off you go size 12 boots. Like, I mean, look at Tennant's
• 57:30
  face. He is terrified.
• 57:33
  You're just staring at a wall mate.
• 57:34
  It's not that bad. It's.
• 57:36
  The bigger it's the big eyes. He's going to die though.
• 57:39
  He's going to be killed. Normally it's big sad puppy dog
• 57:42
  eyes, isn't it? No, it's the terrified eyes.
• 57:44
  You don't see that intense Dr. He's really terrified.
• 57:48
  He's always in that kind of control.
• 57:50
  Or, or maybe the doctor just had a little bit to drink before he
• 57:53
  came on here. Yeah, nicked a bit as dull as
• 57:56
  Bloody Mary. If this was the company, I'm
• 57:59
  sure he did. Do you think, Eddie, do you
• 58:01
  think that, like, I mean, unthinkable as it is, that you,
• 58:06
  you know, will reach your dad's age, But do you think when you
• 58:08
  reach your dad's age, you might have a different opinion on
• 58:11
  this? Or do you think you will always
• 58:13
  find this a bit dull? It's very possible.
• 58:15
  I make it's like not two stories for me can change an opinion
• 58:18
  very drastic. Like it was like it just depends
• 58:21
  on like the state I'm in at the time.
• 58:24
  Because like say when I was when, when I was sick during
• 58:28
  like literally while I was at the very end of like second
• 58:31
  doctor beginning 1/3 doctor when I when I watched the ad from the
• 58:34
  states originally during my marathon, I was not a fan of it
• 58:38
  because it went too fast for my for my sick self.
• 58:42
  So it's like something like a slow paced story, like The
• 58:44
  Walking towards Silurians would have worked better for me
• 58:47
  because like, say, I could keep up with that, but it's like, say
• 58:50
  I just did not work for me at the time because I was not ready
• 58:54
  for it to work. But yeah, so after watching it
• 58:58
  like in January and now I, I like it a lot more and it's
• 59:02
  creeping up to be one of my favorites.
• 59:05
  I mean, I love, I love this episode so much.
• 59:07
  I'm secretly hoping, you know, the older you get, the more you
• 59:11
  fall in love with it. I mean, you had a bit of action
• 59:13
  there. She just got look, she just went
• 59:15
  out the door. He took out the trash and.
• 59:18
  She took out the trash. And now, and now, the doctors in
• 59:23
  the state of hangover. Yeah, sorry.
• 59:28
  Very pointed that line. What was the woman's name?
• 59:31
  Oh, I don't know. No one knew.
• 59:34
  What, you're all just such careless to actually forgot to
• 59:37
  ask. Yeah, she's just, she's just the
• 59:41
  hired help, so to speak. Always be nice to your retail
• 59:43
  workers and your hostesses and that, that's what I say.
• 59:46
  What I will say is the the bit where it's all coming to a
• 59:50
  climax there. There's a hysteria in the
• 59:54
  performances that you don't often see in Doctor Who.
• 59:57
  It's so ugly, isn't it genuinely the worst way?
• 1:00:01
  Father, may I just say I've never heard you say anything
• 1:00:04
  about being kind to retail workers or a Hostess.
• 1:00:07
  I just. Didn't I am a retail worker?
• 1:00:10
  Is this true? I've never heard him say
• 1:00:13
  anything of the sort. Wow.
• 1:00:15
  I just all coming out now. Like he says, that's what I say,
• 1:00:19
  you know, he's implying he says it all the time.
• 1:00:21
  I've never heard him. Say it all.
• 1:00:23
  I do not say it all the time. I just do it all the time
• 1:00:25
  because frankly, if you're nasty to the mall of the time, Ed,
• 1:00:31
  don't. You worry I've got a line.
• 1:00:32
  I say to people now, I'll say, unfortunately here in this
• 1:00:34
  company, we have a politeness threshold and you've stepped
• 1:00:37
  over the line. I'm just going to get my manager
• 1:00:39
  for you. And they're too busy trying to
• 1:00:41
  work out what you're saying. And by the time they have the
• 1:00:43
  managers there and you just walk away.
• 1:00:46
  What does managers have? Supersonic.
• 1:00:48
  Feet or something? Not my place, no.
• 1:00:54
  Oh God, stop talking about work on this thing.
• 1:00:58
  Oh dear, that's going to get edited out.
• 1:01:01
  I don't usually, if I'm honest. Yeah, we're in the.
• 1:01:03
  Episode now so it usually say what tell you what that does
• 1:01:06
  look like a nice thing to do all those center park glass bubbles
• 1:01:10
  all over it and now why is Donna traumatised is it is.
• 1:01:14
  It like, was the Bloody Mary too much for her?
• 1:01:16
  I think it's the doctor walking up and the. 1000 yard stare on
• 1:01:20
  his face. It's now I think it's just a
• 1:01:21
  bloody Mary. A bit much for her.
• 1:01:23
  It's. It's the comfort.
• 1:01:25
  Isn't it? I mean.
• 1:01:26
  I think this is for me, this is the ultimate friendship In the
• 1:01:29
  new series, the the 10th Doctor and Donna.
• 1:01:32
  They're I prefer 14 Donna. Oh yeah, I love that as well.
• 1:01:36
  Like. I I like how there's more.
• 1:01:39
  Of a relationship in there because like they already know
• 1:01:42
  each other aside the star beast where it's like what the hell
• 1:01:46
  when the meat comes out was like that.
• 1:01:47
  When it's like in wildly Yonder that really challenges the
• 1:01:50
  relationship, though, and it's like say I quite like because
• 1:01:53
  like say, well, it does have adult themes.
• 1:01:55
  It still has action, so it does fill out you right.
• 1:01:58
  You're mixed it perfectly. And it's like that end part.
• 1:02:01
  With Donna on like, oh, she could actually die here I was.
• 1:02:06
  It's like, say I shouldn't have expected it to actually happen,
• 1:02:09
  but it did. Oh Oh well, I've spent so much
• 1:02:12
  time not talking about midnight at the episode already on the
• 1:02:14
  next time trade. Well, you want an episode with.
• 1:02:17
  Action, I mean, London's wiped out in turn left, you know,
• 1:02:21
  soldiers on the streets with guns.
• 1:02:24
  That has more action to it yet. And it's like, and we finally
• 1:02:27
  get Rose at like for more than 5 seconds with the most alarming
• 1:02:32
  dental work. Anyone's ever had.
• 1:02:34
  Would you agree The true horror turn left Billy Pipers?
• 1:02:37
  Teeth. I know.
• 1:02:38
  I mean, if things weren't dark enough there.
• 1:02:40
  That massive bubble coming out of London, nuclear blast, good
• 1:02:44
  grief. Very dark into this year.
• 1:02:50
  It's very odd, you know, It is very odd though, because Russell
• 1:02:53
  is usually very savvy, I think, to provide entertainment, and he
• 1:02:59
  will often throw in action. So you look at every other story
• 1:03:03
  this year, there's lots of running around, partners in
• 1:03:05
  crime, fires a Pompeii, there's a ton of action.
• 1:03:08
  Planet of the Ute the Sontaran 2 pastor, yeah, Catherine Tate
• 1:03:12
  said at the. Panel that Planet of the Ute had
• 1:03:15
  the most running of any story. Oh no, it's the best running
• 1:03:19
  ever, you know. Especially when that claws come
• 1:03:21
  in after him. Yeah, like obviously I imagine.
• 1:03:25
  That must have been a lot of running but but my point is this
• 1:03:28
  is such a. Departure that, That this is
• 1:03:30
  such a talkie piece that relies on performances rather than
• 1:03:35
  action, that this is all set in one location.
• 1:03:39
  It's unusual. It's unusual for Russell.
• 1:03:42
  It was a late piece as well, wasn't it?
• 1:03:43
  If I remember I. Think yeah, I think it was like
• 1:03:45
  an 11th hour. Yeah, they were going to have.
• 1:03:48
  Was it? Was it?
• 1:03:49
  Mark Gatiss doing a Second World War Museum story off the top of
• 1:03:53
  my head. But yeah, And Russell said I'll
• 1:03:56
  hold this in reserve. Let me see if I can make this
• 1:03:58
  work. So it's him.
• 1:04:00
  It's Russell challenging himself.
• 1:04:01
  I think as much as it is challenging, I do file the
• 1:04:04
  Second World War Museum. Well, do you know what I.
• 1:04:08
  So I'm recently going to do the series 4B strictly come hamster
• 1:04:13
  Eddie right? So I put out me the link to try
• 1:04:15
  and send my opinions in. Like please do.
• 1:04:18
  Unfortunately that may take a bit of time since I I
• 1:04:22
  uninstalled Twitter on my phone the other the day to make space.
• 1:04:27
  Other stuff because like. There's some complicated stuff
• 1:04:29
  going on in America. I need to like redownload stuff
• 1:04:32
  and whatnot. There's like say, yeah, so I
• 1:04:34
  haven't involved to reinstall it because it's like, say, why
• 1:04:36
  would I reinstall such a toxic sift or whatever?
• 1:04:38
  It was like saying that's all right, type them out and I'll
• 1:04:41
  send them both to. Joe, it's fine.
• 1:04:42
  Yeah. It's like it's like I.
• 1:04:45
  Do still have it on my iPad which is like as soon as I log
• 1:04:47
  into my account there I can drop all the opinions in.
• 1:04:50
  Please do it whilst whilst the. The opinions that have come in
• 1:04:54
  from Midnight so far have been the majority have been positive
• 1:04:57
  because it is a very popular episode.
• 1:04:59
  There have been a couple of notable dissenting voices that
• 1:05:04
  say they just don't understand it.
• 1:05:07
  So you're not alone. There are other people that
• 1:05:10
  don't get it. Oh thank God, I thought I was
• 1:05:12
  alone. No James Lark.
• 1:05:15
  And Paul? Quinn and John will tell you
• 1:05:17
  they are two people with very strong opinions are absolutely
• 1:05:22
  in your on your in your corner. But contrarians?
• 1:05:27
  Is a way of putting it, isn't it?
• 1:05:28
  Well, yes. Well, no, Eddie, you're not
• 1:05:30
  saying you don't. Like this just because people
• 1:05:32
  think it's a classic. Are you you?
• 1:05:36
  It depends. There's like, say, it depends on
• 1:05:38
  like, say, obviously I know a lot of people can find it a
• 1:05:42
  trend to hit on popular stuff, but it's like, say, there are
• 1:05:44
  certain stories I like that, like say Cave Sandagiani is 1.
• 1:05:49
  I quite like. That's a popular one.
• 1:05:51
  Like Pyramid and Mars, you said? Yeah.
• 1:05:54
  Pyramid and Mars. It's like I, I.
• 1:05:56
  Also see enough sort of dislike towards that as well to balance
• 1:06:01
  it out with the fact that yeah, I like story that's like
• 1:06:04
  averagely raised in the fandom. It's like, say, another one that
• 1:06:08
  is very critically acclaimed that I'm not a big fan of.
• 1:06:11
  Blink. Oh sigh.
• 1:06:13
  Heart would love you you. Know yeah, like sick.
• 1:06:16
  I think the angels get better. As they go on, actually mostly
• 1:06:19
  it's like sick. Mainly it's like time frame in
• 1:06:22
  flesh and stone. Angels take Manhattan.
• 1:06:24
  I think of their absolute peak. The only reason I say for me the
• 1:06:29
  the stories get. Better as they go.
• 1:06:31
  On because like there's like I would have had time of angels
• 1:06:34
  above the angels take Manhattan if it were not for the scene at
• 1:06:40
  the end of flesh and stones. Well, Oh my God, do you know I?
• 1:06:44
  Feel like we're we're the same person, you and me.
• 1:06:46
  All the things you said about the Moffett era tonight, we're
• 1:06:48
  in total agreement. Isn't it appalling, that scene?
• 1:06:52
  Yeah, Look, even Moffat regrets. It he should, he should.
• 1:06:59
  Oh, it's so nice, you know, to have the younger generation
• 1:07:02
  agreeing with me. You know, I thought I was just
• 1:07:03
  an old man and, you know, a bit embarrassed by that sort of
• 1:07:07
  thing that happens in flesh and stone.
• 1:07:08
  Well, frankly, with Doctor It. It's either it's either young
• 1:07:13
  children and like 20 year old Twitter users who are who are
• 1:07:16
  probably gay that love the show and just make every character
• 1:07:20
  have a gay head cannon or something.
• 1:07:22
  Well done. Just named about 80% of.
• 1:07:25
  Doctor Who found him there? Congratulations.
• 1:07:27
  Or it's or it's the old men. Who have very conserving
• 1:07:31
  opinions of the old show. That's me and John,
• 1:07:34
  unfortunately. Oh, I.
• 1:07:35
  Don't know. So the only opinion that really
• 1:07:37
  counts is yours. Like that I've heard my.
• 1:07:41
  Father's opinions enough, it's like you are you are the.
• 1:07:45
  The person they're trying to capture, though, right?
• 1:07:47
  Yeah. It's like, say, the younger
• 1:07:49
  generation is. Obviously the ones they're
• 1:07:50
  trying to capture is like say exactly with RCD saying this
• 1:07:54
  series new season was directed to under 30s and whatnot.
• 1:07:58
  So it's like it was more directed towards.
• 1:08:01
  It's like some thick heads could not get themselves past that and
• 1:08:04
  they think, oh, show's gone woke.
• 1:08:07
  It's no longer for the old fans who've been around for ages, and
• 1:08:10
  we can't let anyone new come into the fan because it'll make
• 1:08:12
  it woke. Which is outrageous, right?
• 1:08:15
  Like surely? The the the more and the more
• 1:08:18
  diverse the better. Yeah, like they just can't
• 1:08:21
  handle. Having more people talk Doctor
• 1:08:22
  Who about the one thing that Doctor Who fans hate is Doctor
• 1:08:25
  Who. That's right.
• 1:08:26
  And the thing they hate even more?
• 1:08:28
  Is Doctor Who when it's popular with the public, it's a bit of
• 1:08:32
  an issue, you know. Being a Doctor Who fan.
• 1:08:34
  And they just. And when that happens, they
• 1:08:36
  just. Say Oh no, Doctor Who's well,
• 1:08:39
  it's not got any high viewership and they're saying Oh no, The
• 1:08:42
  view ships at an all time low this season.
• 1:08:44
  And it's like, yeah, but did you know that The War Game part 10
• 1:08:48
  also had quite low viewership and came back really strong the
• 1:08:51
  very next episode with like 11,000,000?
• 1:08:54
  So it's like say yeah, you're acting like low ratings mean the
• 1:08:58
  show's doomed. It's like, you know, Underworld
• 1:09:01
  Part 3. Had 11.7 million viewers.
• 1:09:05
  I don't think anyone's going to say that's a classic piece of
• 1:09:07
  television, but their their case is going.
• 1:09:10
  To be It's back when Doctor Who was proper and had Tom Baker on
• 1:09:14
  it. You know that sort of fan.
• 1:09:17
  Do you? Yeah, I'm looking at him right
• 1:09:19
  now. Yeah.
• 1:09:21
  Well, look, I'm going to try and sort of tie this together then.
• 1:09:23
  Now, I said we're going to give our reasons at the end of the
• 1:09:25
  episode. Obviously, that's the one we're
• 1:09:29
  here to talk about. Yes, I'm going to be positive,
• 1:09:32
  John. I'm assuming you're going to be
• 1:09:33
  positive. Certainly I'm Eddie.
• 1:09:35
  I'm assume you're going to give this a.
• 1:09:36
  Kick in. Yeah, there's like, I've
• 1:09:38
  obviously got something. Like, but a lot of it I
• 1:09:41
  definitely. All right.
• 1:09:42
  Well, I'll tell you what I'm going to do.
• 1:09:43
  We'll go round. 123 John, you go first, I'll go second.
• 1:09:48
  Eddie, you go last and then we'll go round and around and
• 1:09:52
  around. All right.
• 1:09:52
  So John, what's your first reason?
• 1:09:54
  I will take Leslie Sharp as the really obvious.
• 1:09:57
  One, because it is such a technically accomplished
• 1:10:01
  performance. It's such an emotional formance.
• 1:10:04
  She is probably my favorite. Doctor Who, villain of.
• 1:10:08
  Them all purely because the way she manipulates it, it's quiet
• 1:10:14
  and it slowly turns around, conveys this sense that there is
• 1:10:19
  something alien in her head and it's just tearing everyone
• 1:10:24
  apart. So yeah, good forms from Leslie
• 1:10:27
  Sharp. The chief clown is crying in the
• 1:10:30
  background. As we speak, he's terrifying My.
• 1:10:35
  First one then will be that RTD breaks the formula, goes less
• 1:10:43
  for the entertainment jugular, and tries to deliver what's
• 1:10:46
  effectively like a stage play on the screen.
• 1:10:49
  I think one of the scenes in the middle of the episode is like
• 1:10:51
  nearly 20 minutes long, and that's just unheard of in
• 1:10:55
  television to have an extended sequence like that.
• 1:10:58
  And I think we have learned today that doing something this
• 1:11:03
  original means it goes one of two ways.
• 1:11:06
  People will love it or people will hate it.
• 1:11:09
  But I do love that he tried like you can do anything with Doctor.
• 1:11:13
  Basically aside, as my father's point out from you for unless
• 1:11:16
  it's a very realistic death, can say obviously Spy Fall had a
• 1:11:19
  part cut because it was actually going to show the execution of
• 1:11:22
  one of the guest cast, but couldn't go there because that's
• 1:11:25
  too realistic. It's like it's like within like
• 1:11:28
  anything else aside realistic death or whatever.
• 1:11:32
  You can go basically anywhere you want with the show.
• 1:11:34
  So if you wanted a unicorns on a on a pink cloud in the sky, you
• 1:11:38
  could do that. If you if you wanted to go
• 1:11:40
  underwater with a bunch of with a bunch of talking like sea
• 1:11:45
  slugs or whatever, you can do that as well.
• 1:11:47
  I almost said crowds there, but I just remember Doctor Who has
• 1:11:50
  had crowds before. I mean, those artists sound
• 1:11:52
  wonderful. I think you should be.
• 1:11:53
  Right in Doctor Who. Oh, I have plenty of ideas for
• 1:11:56
  dogs. OK, well, I'll tell you what
• 1:11:58
  right next. Time, next time we meet for
• 1:12:01
  we'll talk. We'll talk about that in a
• 1:12:02
  second. Please come with me with a
• 1:12:04
  couple of pictures for your Doctor Who stories.
• 1:12:06
  All right, will do. Well, what's your first reason?
• 1:12:11
  Against midnight then. Oh yeah, I forgot we were
• 1:12:13
  talking about midnight again, right?
• 1:12:15
  Oh yeah, so like like that. I'll, I'll start off first with
• 1:12:20
  the positive because like saying I won't go into negative because
• 1:12:24
  like we've had the positive, so I'll lift one more positive.
• 1:12:27
  That's not really benefited. The design of the episode is
• 1:12:29
  gorgeous. I will give it that.
• 1:12:32
  That is a very nice reason. But for the fact that.
• 1:12:36
  It was mainly children watching this story.
• 1:12:40
  It's just like, it does not make as much sense because, well,
• 1:12:45
  from my perspective, it was just.
• 1:12:46
  A bunch. Of drunk adults shouting at each
• 1:12:48
  other. And why would a kid want to
• 1:12:51
  watch that? Yeah, exactly.
• 1:12:53
  It's just. To compare it, I it's like,
• 1:12:57
  what? Why watch Midnight when I can
• 1:12:59
  just watch my father talk to all his friends that lobby Connick
• 1:13:01
  Gallifrey won. Oh, burn John.
• 1:13:06
  OK, well back to you then. I will say that the lighting.
• 1:13:11
  On this episode is gorgeous, particularly in the latter half
• 1:13:15
  where they the way they like Leslie Sharp in the spotlight on
• 1:13:19
  that which comes into focus on that.
• 1:13:22
  Again, it's it's telling you a lot about the character, about
• 1:13:26
  the balance of power within the group, the way that everything
• 1:13:31
  is lit. So and it's again, this is such
• 1:13:35
  a a closed set. It has to actually come in.
• 1:13:39
  So, you know, I I wasn't going to go over and take direction
• 1:13:42
  because I think it is very well directed, but the lighting of
• 1:13:45
  the characters and the way it shot is glorious.
• 1:13:48
  So yeah, big props to the lighting department on this.
• 1:13:52
  I'm going to go for an element of.
• 1:13:53
  Production as well for my second one, and that is the music.
• 1:13:56
  I think Murray's on form this week.
• 1:13:59
  He's a bit overblown. In Series 4 he's getting sort of
• 1:14:02
  big for his boots, and in five he gets a lot more playful and
• 1:14:06
  fun. He gets to sort of mutate his
• 1:14:08
  music into something more entertaining.
• 1:14:11
  But this is a minimalist score and it's sort of a horror movie
• 1:14:15
  score, and it's just that sort of, you know, when the knocking
• 1:14:21
  is coming and the rising at the end when everyone's hysterical.
• 1:14:24
  It is a very accomplished piece of music.
• 1:14:29
  Eddie, back to you. Obviously the music is.
• 1:14:33
  Obviously good. It's like obviously, obviously
• 1:14:36
  it will be much better if it had something like space venture
• 1:14:39
  thing that was like as. They're repeating stuff like
• 1:14:44
  that. And the sexy they'd probably
• 1:14:45
  have done that if the afterwards makes sense like that anyway.
• 1:14:48
  I forgot. I must be making natural reason
• 1:14:50
  against you. I mean, I love.
• 1:14:51
  That somebody of your age? Just said it would be better
• 1:14:53
  with space adventure in it. My God how wonderful.
• 1:14:57
  You can make most of two actors better with that.
• 1:15:00
  You give me hope for the future, Eddie.
• 1:15:02
  The only one I would not argue that for us be ahead from space.
• 1:15:04
  Because that's perfectly scored as it is.
• 1:15:07
  Anyway, back to talking about midnight, because I feel like
• 1:15:09
  I've barely talked about midnight this entire time.
• 1:15:11
  And that's all right. You could talk about wherever
• 1:15:14
  you want. It's like, it's like say, yeah,
• 1:15:16
  it's. Like say, I'll, I'll probably
• 1:15:19
  I'll see if I can bring myself to give another positive like
• 1:15:23
  like it's like as much as I dislike that.
• 1:15:26
  So I I do want to try and find the best parts here.
• 1:15:29
  So because unfortunately my father says is that there's
• 1:15:32
  something flood about every Doctor Who story and I have to
• 1:15:34
  agree with him there. But yes, anyway, actually back
• 1:15:39
  to the thingy. Yeah.
• 1:15:42
  So what I another thing I do quite like about this is just
• 1:15:46
  like I do quite like the like entertainment process that was
• 1:15:50
  like they're all settling down because it's like say, I do
• 1:15:53
  enjoy the settling down part on a plane myself.
• 1:15:55
  So it's like it's the excitement of taking off and going out and
• 1:15:59
  going on a new adventure. I quite like that.
• 1:16:02
  It's like saying after that I just don't.
• 1:16:05
  I've just got to say it's like, yeah, like my like thing.
• 1:16:11
  Now I'm trying to think what my negative was.
• 1:16:13
  Kids like say what am I going to try and go out?
• 1:16:15
  Am I going out on midnight with positives and no negatives?
• 1:16:18
  Yes, you. Are.
• 1:16:21
  Back, back, back to the negative because obviously that's what
• 1:16:24
  I'm here for. And if I were not here, I would
• 1:16:26
  be fired from this quote UN quote job anyway.
• 1:16:30
  Yeah. So another negative here is like
• 1:16:33
  say, yeah, I just feel like everyone finds like the body
• 1:16:40
  actions sort of creepy. It's just like staring at you.
• 1:16:43
  It's like say, yeah, I'm sure that would be creepy if I was
• 1:16:46
  actually and whatnot. But it's like say she she's just
• 1:16:49
  looking at you. She's not actually doing
• 1:16:51
  anything to you. She's just looking.
• 1:16:53
  Why are you? Why you all freaking out?
• 1:16:56
  She's literally just sitting there.
• 1:16:58
  You could just cut a hole underneath her with a chainsaw
• 1:17:00
  or whatever and she just fall out the fall out the trolley or
• 1:17:03
  whatever it is. And then when the doctors
• 1:17:06
  terrified, he just looks like he's staring at a wall.
• 1:17:09
  Like, say, what did the wall ever do to you?
• 1:17:12
  Oh, right. Yeah, the wall just terrifies
• 1:17:14
  you now. Yeah, Great.
• 1:17:16
  Good. Whatever.
• 1:17:18
  I mean, I've seen some pretty hideous designs.
• 1:17:20
  Of wallpaper, but I've never been that scared of a wall.
• 1:17:24
  I should. I do get it though.
• 1:17:25
  I do get why. Just, you know, the body
• 1:17:29
  language of an actor would be quite boring to watch.
• 1:17:32
  If that's not your bag, I absolutely get it.
• 1:17:37
  I don't know, I sometimes think I've seen a bit too much of life
• 1:17:39
  that this actually all strikes me as a bit realistic.
• 1:17:42
  But I don't want you to ever see any life like that.
• 1:17:45
  So please, I'm not sure if that's positive or a negative
• 1:17:48
  comment. Well, John, coming in back to
• 1:17:53
  you for our last round of reasons, I am going to take that
• 1:17:56
  last scene. With Catherine Tate and Dave
• 1:17:59
  Tennant, because Midnight is ultimately it's a really
• 1:18:02
  nihilistic episode about human nature and Russell T Davis is
• 1:18:06
  underneath it all, really kind of negative about humanity and
• 1:18:12
  the way we relate to each other. And then it's that scene of
• 1:18:16
  empathy. And because this season, the big
• 1:18:19
  strength of this season is Tenant and Tate, because they
• 1:18:22
  can pretty much rescue anything. Almost any script that they give
• 1:18:25
  you, they can find. They can mine it back any kind
• 1:18:29
  of anything that's there, no matter how thin it is.
• 1:18:31
  What? Even if it was a twin dilemma.
• 1:18:34
  Oh. With Catherine tight in it,
• 1:18:38
  she's not. She's not going to take that
• 1:18:39
  shit. That's kind of you, sunshine.
• 1:18:42
  Exactly. She'd be straight back in it.
• 1:18:46
  Imagine that strike. Telling the doctor, Oh my God, I
• 1:18:50
  want to see that version of the talk.
• 1:18:52
  And then we've just got to remember that Hugo lands there.
• 1:18:55
  As. Well, don't we?
• 1:18:56
  He's not there at that point. Yeah, Donna would be.
• 1:18:59
  Having a relationship. With him in no time but it's but
• 1:19:03
  I I'd love that what it says. Back the Doctor and Donna
• 1:19:06
  relationship that just that friendship that she just sees
• 1:19:10
  him and she knows, you know, it's not the time to be big.
• 1:19:14
  It's not the time to give out the big.
• 1:19:16
  It's the way she's changed over this season as well.
• 1:19:20
  It's just that whole that one little scene where they where
• 1:19:23
  they are together again is so well played and Tennant feels
• 1:19:28
  damaged after it. He's had such a knock on his
• 1:19:30
  confidence. I don't know if that kind of
• 1:19:33
  feeds into that those last kind of two years where he's kind of
• 1:19:38
  covering up that kind of self doubt with with the big
• 1:19:43
  performance, you know, with the oh, it's me again, here I am
• 1:19:47
  look, I'm the doctor. I'm wonderful me.
• 1:19:50
  And then you see the peeps of. His insecurities, you know, yes,
• 1:19:53
  in the quiet tomorrow and you know Take 10 is good about it,
• 1:19:56
  he will. Feed that into the performance.
• 1:19:59
  Well, my thank you because you've just given.
• 1:20:01
  Me my last reason, which is David Tennant himself, I really
• 1:20:04
  like how this episode deconstructs his Doctor because
• 1:20:09
  he is the I'm too big for my boots Doctor.
• 1:20:12
  He is the fingers on lips in a room Doctor.
• 1:20:16
  And I mean, he does very literally do the fingers on lips
• 1:20:18
  thing at 1:00. Point.
• 1:20:19
  Yeah. Fear her?
• 1:20:21
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:20:23
  And that episode, yeah. But in this instance, he's in a
• 1:20:29
  room full of frightened, irrational people, and that
• 1:20:33
  ain't going to cut it. He tries to take control.
• 1:20:36
  And then then he becomes the scapegoat in the room and the
• 1:20:41
  victim and the one that everybody wants to remove.
• 1:20:44
  And there's nothing you can do about it.
• 1:20:45
  And that's really interesting to see Tennant play, not the big
• 1:20:50
  presence in the room, but the person that can't control it.
• 1:20:53
  And I just think he's great. I mean, I think he's great in
• 1:20:55
  the second-half of this season all the way through.
• 1:20:58
  But they are given about that when you do the season series
• 1:21:01
  4B. Podcast definitely, definitely,
• 1:21:05
  but yeah, so. David Tennant's my last reason
• 1:21:08
  and what is yours, Eddie? I can I can take a positive fan
• 1:21:12
  and. Negative out of that exact same
• 1:21:13
  reason because like positive, I do like his excitement at the
• 1:21:17
  start for just like a sort of the equivalent of a plain writer
• 1:21:20
  is like saying I I have excitement in those kind of
• 1:21:23
  boring things. It's like sick.
• 1:21:24
  I get excited whenever I get a new e-mail at college.
• 1:21:27
  That's how sad I am. You should have seen me on
• 1:21:31
  Friday, it was such. A dry day for emails.
• 1:21:34
  I was so bored. Right, give me your e-mail
• 1:21:38
  address. I'll send you one every now and
• 1:21:39
  again, you know, just to keep you going.
• 1:21:42
  I can't promise that'd be exciting, though.
• 1:21:47
  What's your last reason then? The actual negative about it
• 1:21:50
  though. Is also David Town because like
• 1:21:52
  say he it's like obviously the doctor is meant to be that hero
• 1:21:58
  that kids can look up to the him being wrong.
• 1:22:01
  But yes, well it may be powerful.
• 1:22:03
  It's all defeat the point of of kids want to look up at him and
• 1:22:07
  like, oh, I want to be in that exact same position.
• 1:22:10
  I want to be crying on live TV. No, you don't that just so do do
• 1:22:16
  do you have the same problem? With, you know, when Matt
• 1:22:19
  Smith's vulnerable, when Peter Capaldi is vulnerable.
• 1:22:22
  Jodie Whittaker, you haven't mentioned Shooty GAT well yet.
• 1:22:25
  Shooty GAT. I mean, you talked about tears.
• 1:22:28
  You see a lot of them. It's like it's more, it's more
• 1:22:31
  say. This is a point where the doctor
• 1:22:33
  isn't more emotionally vulnerable yet, obviously.
• 1:22:36
  It's like say most of the time. I think you can correct me if
• 1:22:40
  I'm wrong but. I think this is the.
• 1:22:42
  First, no, I don't know. It's not the first, but it's
• 1:22:44
  one, one of the only times we see David Tennant cry as the
• 1:22:48
  Doctor. So it's like, yeah, so but The
• 1:22:53
  thing is with with other times he's cried, like when Rose was
• 1:22:55
  departing or whatever that was for a justified reason because
• 1:22:58
  obviously Rose was leaving. So of course we'd be sad about
• 1:23:02
  that. But it's like saying with this,
• 1:23:03
  it's just, oh, no, a drunk woman with a repeating voice is just
• 1:23:08
  talking back at you. I'm so crying, I'm so sad.
• 1:23:11
  Wow, wow, wow. I'm just going to see her as
• 1:23:14
  drunk now every time. I watch this drunk Leslie Sharp.
• 1:23:19
  It's not a monster. It's just vodka.
• 1:23:21
  It's all it is the the real the real enemy of this story was a
• 1:23:24
  bloody. Mary Yeah.
• 1:23:26
  Well, yeah, I mean, it can be. You know, well, look, guys,
• 1:23:30
  thank you very much for coming together, Eddie.
• 1:23:33
  It's so refreshing, you know, to hear a very different opinion
• 1:23:37
  from other. I don't want to keep stressing
• 1:23:39
  your age, but I don't often have, you know, young people on
• 1:23:42
  this to talk about the episodes. So it's really nice to have have
• 1:23:46
  a completely different point of view here.
• 1:23:49
  Can I ask you please, where are we going next on our Grand
• 1:23:53
  Doctor Who adventure? We've already spoiled it, but
• 1:23:55
  Attack of the Cyberman. Yes, now I'm deeply.
• 1:23:59
  Intrigued after your response to Midnight, which is popular and
• 1:24:03
  you didn't like it. Now Attack of the Sidemen is not
• 1:24:07
  so popular. Just name like any sex op story
• 1:24:12
  and you'll probably. Get that outcome.
• 1:24:13
  That's very true. Yeah, that's, that's so true.
• 1:24:19
  Are you going to keep your powder dry or are you going to
• 1:24:22
  give me a small taster as to where you fall with attacking
• 1:24:24
  the Cybermen? I will say, I'll just say this.
• 1:24:28
  It's like the only side men's story I'm not too keen on is
• 1:24:31
  basically Revenge of the Side Men.
• 1:24:33
  It's like, say, every other side men's story I've got positives
• 1:24:36
  about. It's like say even like my
• 1:24:40
  father said wheel in space the other day, he was talking about
• 1:24:43
  it. He was saying that side men
• 1:24:44
  being there makes no sense destroying a Galaxy, just
• 1:24:47
  control it or whatever. But it's like saying, I quite
• 1:24:49
  like how it's just like 2-2 side men or so our time coming in and
• 1:24:53
  just like attacking the whole base because it shows like just
• 1:24:57
  two side men at once is enough to terrorize a whole base.
• 1:25:01
  It's like basically it works out like not exactly on the same
• 1:25:06
  quality of me, but it works out with sort of similar premise to
• 1:25:09
  Dalek, for example. Like like think so like Villa de
• 1:25:14
  Darcy's falls in the same sort of area and that as well.
• 1:25:16
  But it's like, say, just like smaller amounts of Cybermen, it
• 1:25:20
  just shows you how powerful they can be when they're on their
• 1:25:23
  own. Like they have positives there,
• 1:25:25
  but it's like, say attackers side men.
• 1:25:28
  Obviously we can get more into that whenever we do that and
• 1:25:30
  like whenever's time or whatever.
• 1:25:32
  I'd know the exact schedule, but yeah, we'll see you whenever we
• 1:25:36
  do it. You know, This is why you're
• 1:25:37
  here, you know, to make links. Between the Wheeling space and
• 1:25:41
  Dalek, I mean. I never saw that before, but now
• 1:25:43
  I do see it. It is right, John.
• 1:25:45
  There are only a couple of sidemen on that.
• 1:25:47
  And they do. They're succeeding for quite a
• 1:25:51
  while. Oh yeah?
• 1:25:53
  Well, until the. The obligatory oh right, we're
• 1:25:56
  at the end of the effort. We have to actually light off
• 1:25:58
  the fill and and those cardboard cut outs sort of go flying.
• 1:26:02
  Off into space, but, you know, and actually, you said you like
• 1:26:05
  a bit of action. Well, you won't be disappointed
• 1:26:07
  in attacking sidemen. Yeah, it's like say, there is.
• 1:26:10
  Quite there's a lot going on in say the stories that like say,
• 1:26:15
  it's like say to quote to quote the reaction.
• 1:26:17
  I was watching not attack for him, but like say for the twin
• 1:26:20
  dilemma. It's like say at the cliffhanger
• 1:26:22
  where it's just Doctor and Perry were arguing and and Hugo Lang
• 1:26:26
  just woke up from Asle forever and start and aimed to gun at
• 1:26:29
  them. The reactor was just like
• 1:26:31
  everybody calm the fuck down. That's what I would be like that
• 1:26:35
  most of sex doctors here, just like everybody calm the fuck
• 1:26:39
  down. Do you imagine that Midnight
• 1:26:41
  needed Hugo? Lang to just say would everyone
• 1:26:44
  please just calm the fuck down? Yeah, Midnight needy Hugo Lang
• 1:26:48
  so we could. Just shoot the fuck out of
• 1:26:49
  everyone. Well, I didn't realize that was
• 1:26:54
  the conclusion we was going to reach here, but I'm very pleased
• 1:26:57
  we have. Now can I?
• 1:26:59
  We're going to end the episode in a second, but I am going to
• 1:27:01
  ask one last thing now. John, please.
• 1:27:03
  Everyone knows where you are online.
• 1:27:04
  Let's be honest now. Is there any kind of record
• 1:27:09
  online of your marathon so people can find your thoughts?
• 1:27:15
  I do have a Facebook account, but that is private right now.
• 1:27:18
  Fair enough. Yeah, well, there's a lot of
• 1:27:20
  weirdos. Out there.
• 1:27:21
  Keep it that way. It's like, say, obviously
• 1:27:24
  Facebook. Is like basically the main room
• 1:27:26
  where it's like that's one with all the family.
• 1:27:28
  So yeah, you'd want to be private.
• 1:27:30
  There's like say, maybe you should start a little blog
• 1:27:32
  though sometime. And put all your thoughts
• 1:27:34
  online. I have been recommended that
• 1:27:36
  actually. Yeah, that would be a good.
• 1:27:37
  Idea It was nice to have a good. Record of.
• 1:27:41
  Currently I'm using. Letterbox to leave in all all my
• 1:27:44
  thoughts stuff as I'm watching them.
• 1:27:45
  It's like, say unfortunately you have modern series, I can't go
• 1:27:49
  in and leave my thoughts on Midnight after this.
• 1:27:51
  But say when we do attack the cyber and I can immediately go
• 1:27:54
  in and just write, yeah, here's what I like, here's what I
• 1:27:57
  disliked and what not. I can't imagine anyone else I
• 1:28:00
  could have dragged. On would have given me something
• 1:28:02
  as unique as Hugo Lang Should have been there to shoot the
• 1:28:05
  fuck out of everybody. I mean.
• 1:28:09
  Well, look fellas, thank you so much for your insights tonight.
• 1:28:12
  It has been. I love this format, father and
• 1:28:14
  son. It's so great.
• 1:28:17
  I will just say to you both until next time we head to tell
• 1:28:22
  us.