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#034_ Secrets For Longevity · INSPIRE STORY

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: So would you hit record this time? I did. Here's
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: the thing.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: We got to preface this whole thing by saying that
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: we took a stab at this a while back before
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: the holidays, and we had a technical snafhoo, which happens
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: from time to time. Although I would I think it's
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: only happened maybe two or three times in the seven
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: years that I've been doing it, and it's just when
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: that happens, the pit in my stomach. It's the worst.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: It's the worst feeling. So, first of all, my apologies
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: for our technical snapho, and thank you so much for
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: coming back.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: No problem. All gives me another chance to hang out
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: with the King.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: I realized where we went wrong though, and why we
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: had a technical problem. I don't know if you'll remember this,
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: but I did not wear the uniform last time. You
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: were wearing a black T shirt and I almost invariably
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: wear a black T shirt for the podcast, and for
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: some reason I was wearing something else. And I think
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: that that just through everything, through the through the through
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: the planet, off its ballast a little bit.
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: So anyway, here we are.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: First of all, congratulations on the success of the Blue
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: Zones Kitchen cookbook. I mean it's you know, once again,
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: there you.
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: Are at the top of the top of the bestseller list.
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: It's it's a it's pretty cool to see.
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: Well. I spent years writing deeply researched books that were
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: I like to think, artfully crafted when it came to
• 1:35
  Speaker 4: the pros, and only to discover what America really wants
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: is beautiful pictures and bean recipes.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: That's it, right.
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: But this is not an ordinary cookbook.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: I mean this, this unfolds much like one of your expeditions.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: You know, this is this is a deep dive into
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: these cultures as much as it is about like, here's
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: the thing that you can make.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: In your kitchen.
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I cringe at the title cookbook because actually
• 1:59
  Speaker 4: we tried to make it more like a two hundred
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: and fifty page national geographic article.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: So I wrote the.
• 2:07
  Speaker 4: Introductions are all science driven, the science of why these
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: foods are helping these people make it to one hundred.
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: I think we have the best national geographic photographer in
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: this genre. David McClain shot all the photos. There's no
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: studio shots there. It's all editorial photography. And the recipes
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: none of them are recopied. Down I sat on a
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: stool and watched these old ladies cook and captured the
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: recipes and then sent them here to Los Angeles actually,
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: where they were corrected in test kitchens.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: They don't have tablespoons and measuring cups.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: Up the sense to actual people or just no, just
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: my observation.
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: But the thing is, this is a five hundred year
• 2:53
  Speaker 4: old food tradition that is disappearing because in all these
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: blue zones, the American food culture is coming and replacing
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: this way of eating that has produced the statistically longest
• 3:07
  Speaker 4: lived people. You know, twenty year olds aren't eating like this.
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: So I was sitting with seventy, eighty, ninety, even one
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: hundred year olds watching them cook the foods of their youth.
• 3:15
  Speaker 4: So this is almost a project of anthropology as much
• 3:20
  Speaker 4: as you know, a.
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: Food creating an historical document.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: I like to think it is.
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: In the fifteen You've been doing this for fifteen years.
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: It's sort of blue zone specific type work.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: What are the changes that you've seen specifically within the
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: blue zones over the last decade and a half, and
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: which ones have been the most impacted by kind of
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: Western development.
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: I'll start with the negative, and then we'll move to
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: the positive. So the place that's been hit the worst
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: is Okinawa. When I first started that, I actually first
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: went there nineteen ninety nine, which was twenty one years ago,
• 3:53
  Speaker 4: and our kind of test expedition, it was at the
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: time producing the longest lived people in the hill of
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: the world, about sixty times more I'm sorry, thirty times
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  Speaker 4: more female centenarians in people over sixty than you'd have
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: in the United States. And now it is the least
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  Speaker 4: healthy prefecture in all of Japan. It's got the highest
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: rates of obesity, the highest rates of diabetes, and it
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: has undergone the worst degeneration of any of the blue zones.
• 4:26
  Speaker 4: But you also see it hit pretty hard in Nikoya Peninsula,
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: Costa Rica, where Nikoya itself, this place where they have
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: this beautiful, simple, elegant, three ingredient recipe that is driving
• 4:39
  Speaker 4: much of their longevity. You come into town now and
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: the first thing you see is a KFC and it
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: just makes your heart sink. And at the same time,
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: longevity is plunging, and the chronic diseases like diabetes and
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: heart disease that are killing Americans are rising there. And
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  Speaker 4: within half a generation or so, these blue zones will
• 5:01
  Speaker 4: just be part of the much.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, it feels like in the same way that
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: certain neighborhoods within cities kind of protect their historical.
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: Heritage and won't let you build. And you know, you
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: have to build to a certain way or you can't build,
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: or you can't renovate these buildings to protect and preserve,
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: you know, the kind of historic nature of them. Is
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: it not possible to go to the governments of these
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: blue zones and you know, give them some kind of
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: certification that protects the heritage there? Is that even possible
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  Speaker 3: or is that just a weird idea.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: No, it's a great idea.
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  Speaker 4: And in fact, I've met with the presidents of Costa
• 5:42
  Speaker 4: Rica and you know, now onto the good news is
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  Speaker 4: the government there has proclaimed Nicoya Peninsula the Blue Zone
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: as a as sort of a national heritage site, which
• 5:53
  Speaker 4: has afforded it protections for older people and more funding
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: to help preserve older.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: People in the cultures of older people.
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: You see that more organically in Ikaia, Greece, which is
• 6:04
  Speaker 4: another blue zone that a real kind of tourist industry
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  Speaker 4: has has sprouted up around people interested in longevity. So
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: what you see there is older people where in many cultures.
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: They're kind of marginalized. They're the heroes, they're the the
• 6:22
  Speaker 4: repositories of wisdom and kind of the local celebrities, especially
• 6:25
  Speaker 4: the centenarians. And in the Blue Zone of Sardinia, and
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: this is where the world's longest of men come from.
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: There are six villages there in the Neural province, and
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  Speaker 4: they're in one.
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  Speaker 1: Of them, place called Seyulo.
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  Speaker 4: There's a Blue Zone center and there's one street it's
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  Speaker 4: probably one hundred meters long, and there's like twelve centenarian
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  Speaker 4: houses on that one hundred meters and out in front
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  Speaker 4: of the house there's huge posters photographs of the centenarians.
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  Speaker 4: So they're really celebrating this as a national as a treasure.
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  Speaker 4: And in these places there's a kind of an act
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: of will to you know, keep at bay these these
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: modern influences.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: So is that the positive side of this coin when
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: when when I asked you that question, you said, well,
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: all start with the negative.
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: Yes, the positive is in some blue zones they're seeing
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: what a resource there. They're older people specifically, and and
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: they're this lifestyle, uh, and they're trying to preserve them both.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, are you optimistic that they're going to be able
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: to kind of preserve and protect the heritage and and
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: you know the sort of culture of these places.
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: No, I don't think so, because oh no, there might
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: be in sort of a museum.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: Sort of way, an effort to do it.
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: But it's I think the forces of of of the
• 7:51
  Speaker 4: world we live and are too strong. The urge to motorize, mechanize,
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  Speaker 4: engineer out physical activity out of our lives with ease
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: and air conditions and power tools and kitchen gadgets and
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: electronics and package food and ultra processed foods.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: And it's that that.
• 8:09
  Speaker 4: That tsunami is just too powerful, I think, too too
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  Speaker 4: for you know, point old traditions to hold up.
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: Do you have a favorite blue zone?
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: I have two favorites.
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: Uh, Korea is where my seems like the one you
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: keep going back.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's I go back almost every year.
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  Speaker 4: My son got married there, and there's a place called
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: Thea's Guesthouse, and NAS, which I like to think is
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: the center of the blue zone, is very you know,
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: you go there and during the day it looks.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: You don't see any furniture.
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  Speaker 4: There's kind of this empty terrace and and and there's
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: nobody around.
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  Speaker 1: But at night.
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  Speaker 4: The that the terrace has a trellis which is lit
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: up and you're overlooking the G and C. And people
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: from the village come in and you'll get Iss and
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: Europeans and Americans, and it tends to be people who
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: are making a life transition and they all meet on
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  Speaker 4: this on this terrace and they eat blue zones foods
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  Speaker 4: and they drink wine. And during the day they go
• 9:14
  Speaker 4: out in the fields and they hike and they go
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  Speaker 4: by the sea, and it's nice to see this, this
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  Speaker 4: place in the.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: World where you can go find your own blue zone.
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  Speaker 3: So to speak.
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  Speaker 2: Is are these places because of the work that you've
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: done now becoming tourist destinations? Are there people that seek
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: them out and want to visit them because they've read
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: about them in your books or heard about them.
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  Speaker 4: They're all tourist destinations and for that I think they appreciate.
• 9:44
  Speaker 4: But you know, when tourist comes, it creates it, you know,
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: problems of its own. But yes, they're all tourist destinations.
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  Speaker 4: I think Nikoya Peninsula, Costa Rica is most made most
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: embraced blue zones, So there's lots of hotels are claiming
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: blue zones, and you know, you land in the airport
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: and Liberia and the first thing you see is a
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: blue zone store wo.
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  Speaker 2: But it's on the other side of the peninsula from
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: like where all the fancy hotels, aren't it.
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: No, it's on the same peninsula. It's just Nikoia Peninsula.
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: It's it's tom Rendo. And people also know of Nosara,
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: which is kind of.
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: A Tomarindo is the surf village place, right.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: That's Montezuma.
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  Speaker 4: Monta Zuma is on the southern tip of the Nikoia
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  Speaker 4: Peninsula and more tours in north is tom Arendo, and
• 10:36
  Speaker 4: that there's what the four Seasons is and kind of
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: halfway between or is Samara, which is a hipsy dipsy
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: beach town, and then Nosara, which is kind of a
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: vortex for surfers and for the yoga it's actually a
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: cool place. Both of them are cool places. That's actually
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: not the blue zone. The blue zones actually inland up
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: in the highlands, in the villages, and they're the type
• 10:59
  Speaker 4: of which is where you know tourists drive through and
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: leaving a cloud of dust and don't really realize what
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: they see. To find the blue zone, you need to
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: go into people's homes, and you need to stop long
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: enough to see detail and to get a feel for
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: what it's like to live in these places, to see
• 11:21
  Speaker 4: how they cook, to see how they down shift, to
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: see how they live out their purpose, to see how
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: they connect socially. There's all these sort of non food
• 11:30
  Speaker 4: characteristics that account for as much of their longevity as
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: eating beans or tofu.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, to do that work, you would have
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: to have a lot of emotional intelligence and a lot
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: of patients. You know you, I mean you're a very charismatic,
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: personable guy. You've got to engender the trust of these
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: people to even get into the position where they're going
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: to allow you to come into their home and participate
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: in their traditions.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: You do.
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  Speaker 4: I was weless, rich with curiosity and a genuine affection
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: for traditional peoples everywhere. I mean, they fascinate me. So
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: I'm not going in trying to get the story and
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: get out. When I did this original work, I was
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: spending months at these places and not in you know,
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: there's one there was a three day stretch where I
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: moved in with one hundred and two year old woman
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: in Okinawa. Neither of us had a common language and
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: I just sat and watched her and what counted. She
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: got up and down off the floor forty times in
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: one day. It's like doing forty squads. Watched how she
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: made her breakfast, how she stood up on a stool
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: and was washing her dishes. At a certain point she
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: pulled out her jet denture and scrubbed them with the
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: same brash and put her dent's back in. But just
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: saw this sort of constant movement and the flow of
• 12:51
  Speaker 4: people who came and visited her, and that she'd sort
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: of toddle out to her garden and that range of motion,
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: And you don't really get You can't really just go
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: in and ask them about their lives and leave, because
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: people don't really remember their lives.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: To do this project right, you have to live with
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: them and pay attention to the detail and the nuance.
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: And then you can sort of go into the academic
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: literature and say to find out, well, they're doing this
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: one thing, is there any sort of academic underpinnings or
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: evidence for why this would be yielding longemany So.
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: In the example of that particular woman, what does she
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: think is going on?
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: What could I possibly be doing that would be so
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: interesting ideals.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: I was introduced to her, and I remember it was
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: a rainy like Tuesday morning, and I took off my
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: shoes and you sort of step up to she is
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: one of these stilted houses. And I sat cross the
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: lay across from her on to Tommy Matt and we
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: looked each other and smiled, and I knew like one
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: adigato a you know, one Japanese word adigato, And then
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: we looked at each other, stared and smiled, sat there
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: for about ten minutes, and finally she got bored and
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: got up and went and bought her.
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: Day, and I just followed her, like, he's still there. Yeah,
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: I don't know what he's doing.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: I'm obviously not going to get rid of him. Uh
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: huh no, but no. I Later on.
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: Her granddaughter came and we had a translated conversation was
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: very nice.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Well, just by way of background and context for those
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: people listening or watching who are new to kind of
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: your work, I think it would be helpful to just
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: kind of provide a quick synopsis of what this whole
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: Blue Zoo zones thing you know is about.
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: It started out as a national geographic project to in
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: a sense reverse engineer longevity. Something called the Danish Twins
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: study established that only about twenty percent of how long
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: the average person lives is dictated by jeans, the other
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: eighty percent of something else. So the project began by
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: hiringmographers to find places where people are living statistically longest,
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: and that alone took two years. It costs about a
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: quarter million bucks before I could even start. But you know,
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: you don't want to go to a place that's just
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: hearsay and try to distill out lessons. So with the demographers,
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: we found these these longevity hotspots, which I've dubbed blue zones,
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: and then brought in another team of experts to find
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: the correlations, and we use the methodology of anthropology epidemiology
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: to kind of tease out the common denominators. So we
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: found longevity hotspots in Okinawo, Japan, Sardinia, Italy, at Korea, Greece, Nicoya,
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: Peninsul of Costa Rica, and not far from here that Lomolina, California,
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: and the Seventh Day Adventists. And over the past fifteen years,
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: I've been studying these cultures in an effort to preserve
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: this interconnected set of factors that are common to all
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: these pas that are yielding longevity. And the first big
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: breakthrough was a cover story for National Geographic Secrets of
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: Long Life, And then came a book Blue Zones, Nine
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: Lessons for the on Living Longer from the people who
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: live the longest, Blue Zone Solution, Blue Zones of Happiness.
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: And now, at a certain point, what really explains longevity complex,
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: and it's multifactorial. But at a certain point I realized
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: that when it comes to changing your health behaviors, for
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: most Americans, the change comes through their mouths. So this
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: idea to do a Blue Zone's kitchen and capture these
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: recipes and these images was really an.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: Idea to, I guess, appeal to.
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: A wider spectrum of Americans and kind of lure them
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: into this deeper and more complex prescription for longevity. And
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: it seemingly it's worked.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: Right, So amongst these populations, none of them are are
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: striving for longevity. They're not thinking about it. They're not
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: going to the gym, they're not dieting. Their lifestyles are
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: set up in a certain way that is conducive to
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: them becoming centenarian. Right, the foods they eat, the manner
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: in which they interact with their community and interact, you know,
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: throughout their daily lives in a physical sense. All of
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: these things kind of contribute to this set of parameters
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: that you have kind of distilled down and canonized.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: So I would say the big epiphany. It took me
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: ten years to make this realization. You know, in America,
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: we tend to pursue health. We find a diet, or
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: we find an exercise program, or we get a coach,
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: or we get on a supplement program, and we think, well,
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: we got to find this program. We need the discipline,
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: the focus of mind, and we're going to go after it,
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: you know, and the vast majority, ninety plus percent of
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: people fail at what they start at within a year.
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: In blue zones, these people are eating mostly plant based foods.
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: They're moving every twenty minutes or so, they're hugely socially connected.
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: They're suffused with purpose, not because they have tried, it's
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: because they're a product of their environment. They live in
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: places where the cheapest and most accessible foods is peasant food.
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: It's whole grains, it's nuts, it's greens, it's tubers, so
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: it's cheapest and most accessible. And they have these time
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: on or recipes to make them taste good, and their
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: kitchens are set up so they can make them easily.
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: So of course they're going to eat that. See a
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: lot easier to eat that, and you know, travel to
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: a big city and buy processed foods. They don't have
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: these mech and ize conveniences in their houses, so they're
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: not turning to some you know, power tool to do
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: their work. They're needing bread by hand or grinding corn
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: by hand, they're doing garden work by hand. The option
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: to implode into their homes, onto their electronics isn't there,
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: because within a day, if you not showing up to
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: the village center or the party or church, somebody's knocking
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: on your door to show up. Yeah, the accountable, Yeah,
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: there's a certain expectation and nobody wakes up wondering what
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: their position is in their community. There's always a very
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: clear sense of purpose and sense of responsibility. You know
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: that the Oak and Awends use this word ekey guy.
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: People are starting to use that word a lot. Sense
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: of purpose and it really does make a big difference
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: when it comes to longevity, probably eight extra years of
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: life expectan see, but the purpose experience in Blue zones.
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: Isn't the sort of follow your passion purpose that we
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: think of in America. You know, we think, well, we're
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: going to retire or you know, we get you.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: I got some free time on my hand.
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: I'm going to travel or I'm going to play golf
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: or or pursue knitting.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: Whatever it is. Purpose in Blue.
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: Zones is is spliced with responsibility.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: So when when people think of purpose, it's.
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: Always connected to putting the focus back on somebody else.
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: It's making sure the younger generation.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: Thrives.
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: It's it's making sure that the community is taking care
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: of making sure certain practices are preserved. There's always an
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: ultrualistic element to purpose in the Blue Zones.
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and a corresponding aspect of responsibility.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: Right, that's right.
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, So it's it's almost a hybrid between purpose and reponsibility.
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: Infuse those two and that's the Blue Zone purpose.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: And telescoping up from this, what's really interesting is this
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: perhaps somewhat counterintuitive notion that infuses the work that you
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: now do with cities by virtue of the Blue Zones project,
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: which is kind of a rejection of human self will
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: in a manner of speaking to say, look, you know,
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: getting people to exercise, making them feel bad if they don't,
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: even if you incentivize them to do so. Whether it's dieting,
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: weight loss, whatever, all of these kind of health parameters
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: that underpin how we think about health and fitness and
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: well being in the developed.
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: World just don't work. Yeah, it don't work.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: And the solution can be extracted from these traditional communities
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: by observing the way that they live their lives and
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: trying to create environments that are conducive to making the
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: right choice.
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: Yes, so, you know, it burns me up here in
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: these finger wagging politicians saying that it's individual responsible, it's
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: your responsible ability to be healthy, but then you unleash
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: people in the toxic food environment. You know, we'd blue
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: zone the whole state of Iowa, and there was a
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: lot of sort of local politicians who were saying, well,
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: endwords blue zones. But we think it's mostly individual responsibility.
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: How are you going to ask a single mother who's
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: barely making ends meet with her ten hour day job
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: to go out into the food environment where ninety seven
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: out of one hundred choices are bad and say go
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: find good choices for your kids. I actually believe that
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: if you're unhealthy and overweight in this country, which is
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: seventy one percent of American populations, it's not their fault.
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: You go back to nineteen seventy, we had about the
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: third the rate of obesity we have today. And is
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: that because there were better exercise programs, or people were
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: more responsibility right responsible in the post hippie age nineteen seventy,
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: or because we had better diets, or we're better educated. No,
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: you know, our environment has changed. And the very queer
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: lesson that we get from blue zones is, here's environments
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: that we know are producing the statistically longest lived and
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: healthiest populations. And when I say longest live, I don't
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: mean they have better genes that are going to make
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: them to live to one hundred and twenty.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: What I am.
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: Saying is they're avoiding heart disease, cancer, diabetes, and dementia,
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: the diseases that foreshorten your life. So they're getting the
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: full ninety five years or so, which is the capacity
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: of the human machine. If you're listening to this right now,
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: your body is right to the extent we science under
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: stands the human body, your body's capacities ninety five If
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: you do all the right things. These populations are achieving
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: that ninety five year mark better than any other population
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: in the world. And they're doing it because they live
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: in the right environment.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: Right, they don't have to go out of their way
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: to do it. It's just right in front of them, mindless.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: That is the choice to be made. So when you
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: look at the United States of America, I mean, where
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: do we fall on longevity.
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: Right now, like ninth or we do like Bangladesh or something.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: No, we're not that bad. And it dropped the last
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: years too.
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, there's been a little bump upward because we're seemingly
• 24:42
  Speaker 4: getting this opioid crisis a little bit under control. But
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: the previous three years we've seen life expectancy drop for
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: the first time in living history, first time in a century,
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: since the big flu epidemic in nineteen seventeen. So, no,
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: we're going the wrong direction here. And the percentage of our
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: GDP we spend on avoidable diseases, about three point seven
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: trillion dollars, keeps going up every year. It's a statistical certainty.
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: It'll bankrupt our country if it continues on the trend.
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: And it's all because of diseases. That result because the
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: environment we live in.
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: And when you look at the environment, the culprits that
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: I see are subsidized, cheap processed food, suburban sprawl.
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: The advent of the automobile.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: Like there are certain kind of like seismic forces, cultural
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: forces that have kind of led us to this place.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: Like people are more separated geographically, we're reliant on our
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: own personal cars versus public transportation. We're not living in consolidated,
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: well thought out urban environments. Are access to healthy food
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: creates socio economic problems, and you know, we were dealing
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: with with that with that kind of like suburban you
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: know growth, we see the degeneration of inner cities and
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: thus the kind of food deserts that spring up that
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: further exacerbate that socioeconomic and health divide.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: It's a lot like remember that old experiment.
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: If you threw a frog and boiling water would leap out,
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: but if you threw it in lukewarm water and turned
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: up the water one degree at a time, tho it
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: would cook the frog.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: That's kind of what's happening to us.
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: I mean, in the nineteen forties, fifties, even sixties, the
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: American food and built environment was actually pretty healthy. Most
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: people walked, you know, you cooked at home. There was
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: a better balance between animal foods and plant based foods.
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: Having a you know, going out for a hamburger and
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: French fries was an occasional treat, not a daily event.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: And what's happened is.
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: First of all, every city engineer since the Eisenhower administration
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: has been taught to build a street that gets as
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: many cars as possible down it. So there's this sort
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: of pervasive mindset in among city planners that you know,
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: we want to build for cars and traffic, so that
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: starts modifying marginalizing the human It's unsafe, there's no decent sidewalks,
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: it's the streets are ugly, they're stressful because cars are
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: whizzing by there. There are there are cities that are
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: trying to reverse that trend, but it's going to take
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: some years. Our food environment, ever since Earl Butts Nixon's
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: Secretary of Agriculture, he made uh tran transplants. Before his time,
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: we're used only as an industrial lubricant. He made them
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: a food that's been a problem. But also this system
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: we have that favors corn, soybean, sugar beets, and wheat.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: You know, none of.
• 28:04
  Speaker 4: Those products are bad by themselves, but they're mostly grown
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: in the service of feeding other feeding animals, and there's
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: too much of it. It's a very cheap input. So
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: American ingenuity takes these these cheap core products and they
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: process them and they add value. They market the heck
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: out of them. They strip them of most of their nutrients,
• 28:29
  Speaker 4: and now the ten billion dollars a year is spent
• 28:34
  Speaker 4: marketing as things like sugar cereals and chips and sodas
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: and crackers and these things that actually have their roots
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: in pretty good food. But by the time they get
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: to us, they're stripped of the nutrients and they're metabolically
• 28:48
  Speaker 4: horrible for us, and you can't get.
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: Away from them.
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: What about the car, Well, we all need cars, but
• 28:56
  Speaker 4: there's this idea of induced demand. What happens in most
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: cities is there's a popular part of town, cars start
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: to traffic chokes it, and the politician, under pressure, does
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: the intuitive thing wide in the lane, or put it
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: two more lanes in, or rise the speed limit from
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: thirty to fifty. So cars, and what happens invariably is
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: when you make it easier for cars, it induces the
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: demand for more cars. So you put two more lanes in,
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: and within three to five years those lanes are full
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: because people say, no, it's easier to drive places. But
• 29:33
  Speaker 4: when you do the counterintuitive thing and you narrow lanes
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: and you slow down traffic, we call it a road diet,
• 29:40
  Speaker 4: and you widen the sidewalks and you make a bike lane,
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: which actually causes cars to slow down even more. At
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: a certain point, people do one of two things. They realize, wow,
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: it's actually easier for me to walk or take the
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: bus or bike to these places. Or the driving pressure
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: is such that they move closer to work, or they
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: move into a neighborhood.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: And this happens gradually.
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: We want things to happen overnight, but we could probably
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: eliminate twenty to twenty five percent of the obesity problem
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: in this country if we designed our cities for human
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: beings and not just cars.
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: And that's a big part of the approach.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: When you go to these cities and work with them
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: to try to create a Blue Zone certified urban environment. Yes, like,
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: how can we create systems to promote you know, human
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: movement over personal automobiles.
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: So let me just give you some content context on
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: these blue zones projects. So most of the time when
• 30:39
  Speaker 4: people think of community health, they're trying to promote diet
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: or exercise programs, et cetera. We don't do any of that.
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: We assume that people are genetically hardwired to create sugar, fat,
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: salt and take rest whenever they can. And instead of
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: trying to fight that by as you point out and
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: sent them or guilt them or shame them, shame them,
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: we say no, we're just gonna at these individuals up
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: for success to make the healthy choice, not only the
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: easy chailt choice, but.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: In some cases the only choice. So how do you
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: do that?
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: So in each city I have three teams. The first
• 31:14
  Speaker 4: team is a policy team, and we have experts on
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: building streets for humans, on changing the food environments to
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: favor fruits and vegetables over junk food, and to favor
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: the non smoke over the smoker. And we don't come
• 31:28
  Speaker 4: in and try to nanny steak the city government. We
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: come in and say, here's a menu of thirty evidence
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: based policies that have worked elsewhere to make a city healthier.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: You've hired us to come in. Actually, the insurance company
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: hires us to come in.
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: We help them choose from each of these policy areas
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: eight to ten policies that would be feasible in that
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: city and effective in that city, and then our experts
• 31:56
  Speaker 4: help make sure they can implement it. So an example,
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: if you live in a neighborhood where there are more
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: than six fast food restaurants and a five hundred five
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: hundred feet from the average house, the obesit rate in
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: that neighborhood is about thirty five percent higher than the
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: same neighborhood with fewer than three fast food restaurants. So
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: one of our proposals is that you limit the number
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: of licenses for fast food restaurants.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: If you live in a.
• 32:25
  Speaker 4: Neighborhood where there are billboard advertising for junk food, the
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: obesit rate and that neighborhood is about ten percent higher
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: than the same neighborhood without billboards ads. So one of
• 32:34
  Speaker 4: the things in our menu is a ban on billboard advertising.
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: And nobody misses the billboard advertising, and lo and behold,
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: the OBC rates goes down in those neighborhoods. So we're
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: going to try to get eight or ten policies passed.
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: Then we have a second team that administers a Blue
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: Zone certification program for schools, restaurants, grocery stores, workplaces, and
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: churches and those. It's sort of like lead certification for health.
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: And then we have a third team that gets fifteen
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: percent of individuals. It's kind of a tipping point at
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: fifteen percent to take a Blue Zone pledge, and we
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: get them to take checklists into their home to optimize
• 33:14
  Speaker 4: their home environment for better eating and more movement, optimize
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: their social network. We create these moiyes and then we
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: give them a free purpose workshop and get them volunteering.
• 33:25
  Speaker 4: And if you can orchestrate the perfect storm people places
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: and policies and keep enough energy behind it for five years,
• 33:34
  Speaker 4: in every case, obesity drops, diabetes drops, life expectancy goes up,
• 33:40
  Speaker 4: and people's life satisfaction as reported to Gal goes out.
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: And it's not because we change individuals or shamed individuals.
• 33:48
  Speaker 4: It's because we optimize their environment right.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: And the insurance companies love it. They got to Then
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: the phone rings again, Dan, You're doing a great job.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: Got a new city for you. We're saving so much money.
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: Before worth our biggest the Gallup estimates that our project
• 34:03
  Speaker 4: occasion about a quarter of a billion dollars a year
• 34:06
  Speaker 4: and avoided healthcare costs, and that will continue to accrue
• 34:10
  Speaker 4: because we change. And now we're starting with Orlando, Florida.
• 34:16
  Speaker 4: Tom set them all over there and the Blue Cross
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: Boushield Plan. We got a blueprint in place for Orlando,
• 34:23
  Speaker 4: which is now three million people, is actually at.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: All of Orange County.
• 34:27
  Speaker 4: So the the the challenge gets bigger every time, but
• 34:30
  Speaker 4: it's it's a worthy challenge.
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and.
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: You know, look, we can talk about plant based diets
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: and Korean stew and you know, planning a garden in
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: your backyard.
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: But first we got to get the soda machines out
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: of the schools.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: We got to get people you know, walking and riding
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: their bikes a little bit and maybe not sitting so much,
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: you know, at their job, like very basic, simple things,
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: some of which I would imagine are are.
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: Kind of easy to implement when you go to these cities,
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: and others you know perhaps require you know, zoning and
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: other kind of regulatory changes in order to implement.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: See, if you get focused on the silver bullet, you're
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: going to fail.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: We have what we call silver buckshot.
• 35:15
  Speaker 4: So between our people policy and places strategy, we probably
• 35:21
  Speaker 4: unleash eighty to ninety long term nudges and defaults that
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: are going to favor the.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: Healthy choice over the unhealthy choice.
• 35:30
  Speaker 4: We're going to fail with twenty or thirty of them,
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: but the other fifty or sixty have enough influence, enough
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: of that sort of Adam Smith's silent hand nudge that
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: you see behaviors change. And that's the big secret, you know,
• 35:46
  Speaker 4: until we have the courage to take on our environment
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: and stop with this fairy tale that we're magically going
• 35:52
  Speaker 4: to get three hundred and thirty million Americans to a
• 35:55
  Speaker 4: find the right diet, b muster the discipline to stay
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: on the diet, and three have focus of mind to
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: keep on it for the decades necessary to avoid a
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: chronic disease. We're not Nothing's nothing that we're not going
• 36:09
  Speaker 4: to you know, as they say, bend the curve. We're
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: not going to do much with this obesie problem. It's
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: till we sort of take on the places we eat,
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: our foods, where we go to work, our city, our
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: city policies, and our food and built environment, where America
• 36:26
  Speaker 4: is going to continue to spend needless money and suffer
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: needlessly from chronic disease.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I just know it in my own life.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: We live, you know, my life is an embarrassment of riches.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: We live in this beautiful, you know, part of the world.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: I have an incredible view and I'm surrounded by mountains
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: and sunshine and you.
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: Know, it's phenomenal.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: But i live very far from an urban environment, so
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: I'm not doing a lot of walking, and I'm also
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: geographically distant from bost most of my friends.
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: And I feel that in my life. I go to
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: New York City, I'm walking from Soho to Midtown. I'm
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: seeing tons of friends in a single day. You know,
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: it's a completely different experience that is dictated not because
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: I'm making choices, but because the environment lends itself to
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: me making different types of choices that then completely change
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: how I live my life and experience that day.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're not even conscious choices right now.
• 37:24
  Speaker 4: Where you know, if you want a bottle of soy milk,
• 37:27
  Speaker 4: you got to get in your car here and drive.
• 37:30
  Speaker 4: But if you live in New York or you know,
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: downtown Minneapolis like me, or Santa Barbara up the street,
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: you can walk to that, and it's just easier to
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: you know, walk to the corner store than it is to.
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: And you probably know the guy in the store.
• 37:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and you run into your neighbors on the way by,
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: and it, you know, it fends off this other huge
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: toxic epidemic we're suffering America a round loneliness, which is
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: also I.
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: Mean, friendship and connection is a huge.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: Part of of your work and focus. So maybe let's
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: spend a little time on that.
• 38:04
  Speaker 4: Well, first of all, I think your social connectivity is
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: much is a function of your environment as well.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: If you live in a cul.
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: De sac and some soul suburb where there's no sidewalks
• 38:18
  Speaker 4: to the neighborhood, you have to walk out on the
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: street to get the neighbor If you want to go
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: to a church or a cafe to have a couple
• 38:24
  Speaker 4: of coffee, you have to get your car.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: The number of.
• 38:27
  Speaker 4: Spontaneous social interactions which may lead to a connection or
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: a friendship, just the numbers go down by a factor
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: of ten as opposed to living in a more population dense,
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: walkable community where people are bumping into potential friends all
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: the time. But in our blue zones project cities to
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: our earlier discussion, people are imploding into their handheld devices
• 38:56
  Speaker 4: and their iPads, And we have this very intentional program
• 39:05
  Speaker 4: called Maai's where we bring auditoriums of people in and
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: we actually manually connect them with four or five other friends,
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: helping them connect on based on shared values, shared interest,
• 39:21
  Speaker 4: and shared schedule. And then we just get them walking
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: together for ten weeks or eating plant based potlucks together
• 39:27
  Speaker 4: for ten weeks, and about sixty or seventy percent of
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: the time they stay together for so far, we've been
• 39:35
  Speaker 4: able to track them as much as seven years, and
• 39:37
  Speaker 4: so they're staying together seven years.
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: And we know you are hugely.
• 39:42
  Speaker 4: Influenced by your friends. So if you're hanging out with
• 39:45
  Speaker 4: people who are drinking or smoking, your sixty or seventy
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: percent more likely to drink and smoke yourself. Whereas if
• 39:52
  Speaker 4: you're hanging out with people who are walking every day
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: or are gathering around great plant based food, those behaviors
• 40:00
  Speaker 4: are going to become the contagious. You know, it's the
• 40:02
  Speaker 4: same sort of nudge philosophy that pervades all of our work.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: Maori is that an Okinawan word moi imai.
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: It comes from and actually has its roots in agricultural
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: past where there weren't banks. So five farmers would come
• 40:22
  Speaker 4: together and they'd meet every week, and they'd throw in
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: money every time they met, and then when one of
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: them had a need to buy seed for the next
• 40:29
  Speaker 4: there was a fund of money that they could draw from.
• 40:33
  Speaker 4: That tradition exists to this day, but it's mostly social,
• 40:37
  Speaker 4: and it's essentially a committed circle of friends who travel
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: through life together and support each other when the chips
• 40:45
  Speaker 4: are down and share when the chips are bountiful.
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: That's beautiful.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: I love that it's not just about cooking the food
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: together or participating in a healthy activity.
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: It's the connectivity. It's the congealing of the group and
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: the relationships that are yes.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: And it's a constant thing.
• 41:04
  Speaker 4: I sat with five women from the same moai who
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: get together every night drinksak argue about who the hot
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: guy they liked best back in nineteen forty one.
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: Is this another one of you? You found your way
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: into the house and you're sitting against the wall.
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: I'm sure they had no idea what the hell I
• 41:24
  Speaker 4: was doing there, but they their average age is one
• 41:27
  Speaker 4: hundred and two. They've been meeting almost every day for
• 41:30
  Speaker 4: ninety seven years, and you could.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: See that I sat that with them two nights.
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: Second night, one of the ladies didn't show up, and
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: the other four put their kimonos on and shuffled over
• 41:40
  Speaker 4: to their neighbor's house to check on them. So instead
• 41:42
  Speaker 4: of a nurse or some sort of electronic gadget checking
• 41:46
  Speaker 4: on it's this beautiful social construct that worked without government
• 41:50
  Speaker 4: intervention or without you know, business getting involved.
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: It was you just create it, give it.
• 41:59
  Speaker 4: Some moment them and inertia can keep it going for decades.
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: If you were given the task of creating a brand
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: new city out of whole cloth, like there's just a
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: like a basically a blanket piece of land, and you're
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: charged with constructing an urban environment, you're the new you know,
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: Pierre l'enfond or whatever, looking at how to design Washington,
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: DC or whatever it is, like, what are how do
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: you begin that process? Like what is the city of
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: the future, the ultimate blue zone city of the future
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: look like? And you know, how is it kind of
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: oriented around these principles?
• 42:36
  Speaker 4: Well, I can tell you when developments are are developed
• 42:40
  Speaker 4: at eye level, you know, you have this model and
• 42:43
  Speaker 4: there's somebody looking up above down that always fails. The
• 42:46
  Speaker 4: design happens to it it has to begin I think
• 42:48
  Speaker 4: at eye level, but it starts.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: With a core of you know, you almost.
• 42:57
  Speaker 4: Look at these sort of Mexican cities where they have
• 43:00
  Speaker 4: a zokolo. You want a social square in the middle
• 43:04
  Speaker 4: of it. You know, the way cities evolved in Europe
• 43:08
  Speaker 4: fairly consistently, no matter if you're in Spain or Italy
• 43:14
  Speaker 4: or France or Greece or it's it's not a coincidence.
• 43:19
  Speaker 4: There's a certain amount of human ingenuity and observed wisdom
• 43:27
  Speaker 4: that's baked into these city designs in Europe. So if
• 43:32
  Speaker 4: I had to design a city right here in the
• 43:35
  Speaker 4: hills outside of Los Angeles, I'd start with a.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: Social square around that. I would have.
• 43:45
  Speaker 4: Restaurants and cafes, outdoor restaurants and cafes. I wouldn't let
• 43:49
  Speaker 4: any cars in that central area. You want mixed use,
• 43:53
  Speaker 4: so people can live upstairs and they can do their
• 43:57
  Speaker 4: shopping or the socializing on the first floor.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: You would have.
• 44:02
  Speaker 4: The streets would be designed first for humans. I would
• 44:06
  Speaker 4: probably argue in the very downtown maybe six square blocks,
• 44:10
  Speaker 4: there'd be no cars at all. It would all be pedestrian,
• 44:13
  Speaker 4: but at night cars could come in and delivery trucks
• 44:16
  Speaker 4: could come in and deliver food.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: But people don't miss their cars.
• 44:20
  Speaker 4: If if they if they live close enough to the
• 44:24
  Speaker 4: places that they socialize or shop or go to work,
• 44:29
  Speaker 4: I would I would loosen up on the density as
• 44:33
  Speaker 4: you get towards the periphery. But what you see in
• 44:35
  Speaker 4: all of the happiest and longest lived cities in America, Boulder, Colorado, Portland, Oregon,
• 44:41
  Speaker 4: San Luis Obisimo is a green belt. There's a certain
• 44:47
  Speaker 4: there'd serve of designed like a donut and the donut
• 44:49
  Speaker 4: holes where the people live and the and the donut
• 44:52
  Speaker 4: itself is places to recreate green spaces, places to go hike,
• 44:57
  Speaker 4: places to bike. So you want to keep the development
• 45:01
  Speaker 4: pressure focused inward and not let it sprawl outward, which
• 45:05
  Speaker 4: is what the mistake the vast majority of cities make
• 45:08
  Speaker 4: in this country. And you know, if you have the
• 45:10
  Speaker 4: economic influence pointing inward, that's when the ingenuity comes in.
• 45:18
  Speaker 4: There's pressure to make a high quality of life. You
• 45:20
  Speaker 4: can't just create huge spaces and to make better use
• 45:25
  Speaker 4: of the roadways and the walkways and the retail space.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: So of all the cities in the world right now,
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: which city do you think best captures that ethos, like
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: who's doing it right.
• 45:39
  Speaker 4: OHO's Denmark is doing a great job, which is the
• 45:42
  Speaker 4: second biggest city in Denmark. Or Copenhagen too. I mean
• 45:46
  Speaker 4: they nineteen seventy they had they were choked with traffic,
• 45:49
  Speaker 4: like a lot of American cities are now over fifty
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: percent of all trips are taken on bicycle. And this
• 45:55
  Speaker 4: is a cold area. And they did that. That didn't
• 45:58
  Speaker 4: come about by coincidence, but it was a slow sort
• 46:01
  Speaker 4: of pressure, gently applied over decades to favor the cyclist
• 46:06
  Speaker 4: over the motorists. Santa Barbara right in your hair. They're
• 46:11
  Speaker 4: doing everything right. They're favoring a healthy food environment, they're
• 46:16
  Speaker 4: favoring they've hired a bicycle coordinator to come in and
• 46:21
  Speaker 4: make sure that the agenda. There's somebody always saying, well,
• 46:24
  Speaker 4: if you're gonna design this new street, there needs to
• 46:28
  Speaker 4: be a pedestrian place. In other great cities, Naples, Florida,
• 46:33
  Speaker 4: believe it or not, has done a very good job.
• 46:35
  Speaker 4: In the United States, Bolt to Colorado one of the best.
• 46:43
  Speaker 4: But they're always intentional. They're always stem from an enlightened
• 46:47
  Speaker 4: group of leaders who shift their focus away from just
• 46:51
  Speaker 4: economic development, which tends to be the thrust to quality
• 46:54
  Speaker 4: of life policies, and they just sequentially bring on quality
• 47:00
  Speaker 4: of life policies and get them implemented and lo and behold.
• 47:05
  Speaker 4: After about a decade or so, you see obesity plummeting dependably,
• 47:10
  Speaker 4: and you see people's report it well being or life
• 47:14
  Speaker 4: satisfaction go up.
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: I was in Copenhagen.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: Last summer.
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: I was there right at midsummer, so everybody's out, it's
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: light out, you know, until eleven o'clock at night, and
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: I was delighted and very struck with just how different
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: their lifestyle is compared.
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: To the mine.
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: I mean, I was like, we just have it all wrong.
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: You know, they're everyone is together, the cafes are packed,
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: bicycles everywhere, people sunning themselves and jumping them into the
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: waterways and in boats, and it just.
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: It made a huge impact on me. And you said
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: that that it was once traffic choked. So what did
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: they do, Like what happened that they were able to
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: like make that switch.
• 48:01
  Speaker 4: There's an architect by the name of Jan gel j
• 48:04
  Speaker 4: n g e Hl who first one of the first
• 48:09
  Speaker 4: in the world to realize the importance of walkability and
• 48:13
  Speaker 4: bike ability, and he went to this city council and
• 48:18
  Speaker 4: he sort of pitched these ideas for redesigning their streets
• 48:23
  Speaker 4: so that it favored bikes. It's just literally, you start
• 48:28
  Speaker 4: with the bike lane, you slow down traffic. If traffic
• 48:31
  Speaker 4: moves too fast, people get killed. You know that if
• 48:35
  Speaker 4: you get hit by a car going twenty miles an hour,
• 48:39
  Speaker 4: your chances of living or ninety percent. If you get
• 48:43
  Speaker 4: hit by a car going thirty miles an hour, your
• 48:45
  Speaker 4: chances of living dropped to forty percent. And if you
• 48:47
  Speaker 4: get hit by a car going forty miles an hour,
• 48:51
  Speaker 4: your chance of living drops a chance ten percent. So
• 48:55
  Speaker 4: there's this whole sort of playbook where you look at
• 48:58
  Speaker 4: the streets through the lens of a cyclist, calming traffic,
• 49:03
  Speaker 4: narrowing car lanes, creating a protective bike lane. Trees make
• 49:08
  Speaker 4: a huge difference. People like to walk on streets where
• 49:11
  Speaker 4: there are trees. So it's minimizing the noise, minimizing the stress,
• 49:17
  Speaker 4: minimizing the danger, and maximizing the aesthetics. And people come
• 49:22
  Speaker 4: and Copenhagen just did that systematically over the course of
• 49:25
  Speaker 4: forty years, and so quite frankly as Boulder Colorado and
• 49:28
  Speaker 4: Sant Luis Obispoll.
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, aren't there all these crazy studies on sidewalks, like
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: just how wide they need to be or how tall
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: the lip on the curb needs to be in order
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: to kind of make it as conducive as possible to
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: people making use of them.
• 49:42
  Speaker 4: Yes, yes, so well as a rule, you want a
• 49:47
  Speaker 4: sidewalk as wide enough to get a outdoor cafe on
• 49:51
  Speaker 4: there if you're in a city. Yes, if if there
• 49:56
  Speaker 4: is a dangerous one dangerous curb or one dangerous intersection,
• 50:01
  Speaker 4: even though you might have a perfect sidewalk but one
• 50:04
  Speaker 4: dangerous intersection, and you have some old lady who would
• 50:07
  Speaker 4: normally walk to church that way, but there's that one
• 50:09
  Speaker 4: dangerous place they won't walk.
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: So you really do need to have.
• 50:16
  Speaker 4: An expert who knows how to assess the whole built
• 50:19
  Speaker 4: environment and think of it as a whole continuum. We
• 50:27
  Speaker 4: have a guy on our team named Dan Burdon who
• 50:30
  Speaker 4: is a direct descendant of that Jan Gillen in Copenhagen,
• 50:35
  Speaker 4: so he he knows all these techniques and has developed him.
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: Over forty years.
• 50:40
  Speaker 4: It's kind of a new science, and it's counterintuitive because
• 50:44
  Speaker 4: most engineers want more traffic. But when you sit down
• 50:48
  Speaker 4: and listen to him and you see the results of
• 50:50
  Speaker 4: a walkable city over a city that's overwhelmed with automobiles
• 50:57
  Speaker 4: like Los Angeles, the quality of life is just vastly different.
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, what about you know, making space for
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: community gardens, like all these these things where people can
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: come together and participate in a joint activity, grow their
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: own food together, right in an urban environment. What would
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: happen if if Manhattan outlawed all cars except for perhaps
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: delivery vehicles or you know, a certain limited number of taxis,
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: and really amped up the public transport.
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: What would happen to that city? How would it transform?
• 51:30
  Speaker 4: There would be there would be two or three years
• 51:33
  Speaker 4: of getting used to it, and then they would be
• 51:36
  Speaker 4: chaos at first. Would yeah, yeah, I mean you have
• 51:38
  Speaker 4: sort of you know, people who can't walk eight blocks,
• 51:42
  Speaker 4: not being.
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: Able to hale a cab to get to work.
• 51:44
  Speaker 4: But then I think they would they would be replaced
• 51:47
  Speaker 4: by these are rickshaw cyclists which you see going up
• 51:51
  Speaker 4: and down the Avenue of the Americas all the time.
• 51:53
  Speaker 4: We would adapt, I don't, I don't. I think more
• 51:56
  Speaker 4: people would take the subway. You know, if you just
• 52:02
  Speaker 4: Singapore does this Singapore. Singapore is far more densely populated
• 52:08
  Speaker 4: than New York City. Singapore is number two in the
• 52:10
  Speaker 4: world with the highest population density, no traffic problem at all.
• 52:14
  Speaker 4: Why because they only allow a fixed number of permits
• 52:19
  Speaker 4: to drive, and those permits are available via auction, So
• 52:24
  Speaker 4: they get really expensive gas is two and a half
• 52:27
  Speaker 4: times more expensive there than it is here. And then
• 52:31
  Speaker 4: they take the money that these programs generate and they
• 52:36
  Speaker 4: invest in this world class subway system that's clean and
• 52:40
  Speaker 4: it's on time, and it's safe, and it's pleasant and
• 52:42
  Speaker 4: it's comfortable, and people don't you don't miss their cars
• 52:46
  Speaker 4: because it's a lot easier, faster, safer, and find to
• 52:49
  Speaker 4: get in the subway or just walk.
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: A countervailing innovation, though, that I would imagine is undermining
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: this is the growth of all of these semi human
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: powered electric vehicles like electric skateboards and electric boosted bicycles.
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: Like now it seems like you can get an electric
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: motor in almost every.
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: Form of transportation that used to be human power.
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: Right, So people aren't really riding bikes, They're they're riding
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: things that look like bikes but actually are are.
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: Oh wait, I tell you something that we may not for.
• 53:23
  Speaker 4: People who own an e bike actually get more exercise
• 53:26
  Speaker 4: than people own a bike.
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: Do they because at least they get out, they're getting out.
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they get on them more.
• 53:32
  Speaker 4: And uh, e bikes you know I own seven of them,
• 53:35
  Speaker 4: so they can be a workup bikes.
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 53:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, you know the you know the formula
• 53:40
  Speaker 4: for the ideal number of bicycles.
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: Rich what, however many houses you have?
• 53:44
  Speaker 4: No, no, no, it's it's en plus one and being
• 53:47
  Speaker 4: the number of bikes you currently own.
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: I said, oh yeah, that's that's definitely a cyclist joke.
• 53:53
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it should be everybody's joke, right. But but e bikes, know,
• 54:00
  Speaker 5: you get physical activity, just it's just not necessarily it.
• 54:04
  Speaker 5: You know, in Santa Barbara, I live five switchbacks up
• 54:08
  Speaker 5: from downtown, and you know, you never go out to
• 54:11
  Speaker 5: eat and then you know, do this mountain gold bike
• 54:14
  Speaker 5: ride back home. But I can flick on my e
• 54:17
  Speaker 5: assist and I'll actually use my bike now to go
• 54:20
  Speaker 5: out to dinner because I can.
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: I can.
• 54:23
  Speaker 4: You know, it flattens it out for the way back
• 54:25
  Speaker 4: you still have to pedal. But it's just I'm a
• 54:27
  Speaker 4: huge fan.
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: Of e bikes.
• 54:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I've never ridden mine.
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: A treat away.
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: Well, I don't know you have seven, so maybe Yeah,
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: when you look at these Blue Zones pillars, you know, movement, uh,
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: plant based plant slant, diet, faith, friendship, connectivity, all of
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: these things is are they are they relatively evenly balanced,
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: They're certainly independent, They're they're interdependent with each other.
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: But is there one that stands out?
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: You know, did you write this Blue Zones Kitchen book
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: because the diet component of it is so important?
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: Or how do you think about how the interplay of
• 55:08
  Speaker 3: all of those Yes.
• 55:09
  Speaker 4: To your point, it is a mutually supporting web of factors.
• 55:14
  Speaker 4: So people eat wisely, they move naturally every twenty minutes
• 55:19
  Speaker 4: because their life is underpinned with purpose. They have a
• 55:24
  Speaker 4: social network that makes us easy. Their friends are doing
• 55:27
  Speaker 4: these things, and they live in environments where the healthy
• 55:30
  Speaker 4: choice is the easy choice. So they are definitely connected.
• 55:34
  Speaker 4: But the most important variable there is eating. Americans probably
• 55:39
  Speaker 4: lose six years of life expectancy eating the standard American diet.
• 55:43
  Speaker 4: This is at middle age, by the way, over eating
• 55:46
  Speaker 4: say a Blue zone's diet, which is largely beans, whole grains, greens, nuts,
• 55:51
  Speaker 4: and tubers, you know, and fruits and vegetables as well.
• 55:56
  Speaker 4: So the problem is, except for a few people like
• 56:01
  Speaker 4: you with heroic discipline and a great community supporting you,
• 56:06
  Speaker 4: it's very hard for Americans to go plant based and
• 56:10
  Speaker 4: whole food plant based, by the way, it's not you know,
• 56:12
  Speaker 4: twinkies and chips you need to it's whole whole foods.
• 56:17
  Speaker 4: Plant based diet is the most important factor.
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: But the only way to do.
• 56:23
  Speaker 4: That for the decades necessary to avoid a chronic disease
• 56:27
  Speaker 4: is have the right social network, live in the right place,
• 56:31
  Speaker 4: having that sense of purpose where it's important enough for
• 56:33
  Speaker 4: you to be around that you're going to make the
• 56:35
  Speaker 4: sacrifices every occasionally to you know, not order the hamburger.
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Also in this is stuff about you know, portion size,
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: time of day, when to eat. Like one of the
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: things you.
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: Noticed is like, well, the size of the plates that
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: these people are using, you know, is is different than
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: in America.
• 56:53
  Speaker 3: And how does that dictate long term? How we you know?
• 56:57
  Speaker 4: So I'll spin out a couple of the insights after
• 57:00
  Speaker 4: for Blue Zone's kitchen on how they eat. First of all,
• 57:03
  Speaker 4: they're cooking no matter where you go. They're only using
• 57:06
  Speaker 4: about twenty recipes or twenty ingredients rather over and over
• 57:09
  Speaker 4: and over, because they know how to combine these ingredients
• 57:11
  Speaker 4: to create a symphotic deliciousness, but not a ton of
• 57:17
  Speaker 4: different crazy foods or superfoods. No superfoods except for beans.
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: Beans is probably the superfood. Number Two.
• 57:24
  Speaker 4: They tend to consume all their food in about an
• 57:26
  Speaker 4: eight hour window. Breakfast like a king, lunch like a prince,
• 57:30
  Speaker 4: dinner like a pauper.
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: Number three, they tend.
• 57:32
  Speaker 4: To say something before the meal that marks the punctuation
• 57:37
  Speaker 4: between their busy life and now we're slowing down to eat,
• 57:42
  Speaker 4: like a prayer the Adventists or the Sardinians or Hotahatchi boo,
• 57:47
  Speaker 4: which is a confusion adage that the Okinawans say before
• 57:51
  Speaker 4: every meal to remind themselves to stop eating when their
• 57:54
  Speaker 4: stomachs are eighty percent full. They tend to eat with
• 57:57
  Speaker 4: their family. They tend to not have electronic in their kitchen,
• 58:00
  Speaker 4: so they're not eating to their favorite song or eating
• 58:03
  Speaker 4: to their favorite TV show. They they tend to cook
• 58:07
  Speaker 4: at home as opposed to going out. These are all
• 58:11
  Speaker 4: things that I would argue add to the ecosystem of
• 58:18
  Speaker 4: eating that produces long lived people and the core of
• 58:22
  Speaker 4: which being this, this knowing how to make plant based
• 58:25
  Speaker 4: food taste delicious.
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: To me, the most interesting blue zone is Loma Linda
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: because when you look at the other ones.
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: They are they've just sort of matured over.
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: Time as a product of this environment, you know, the
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: surrounding environment contributed to that, whereas Loma Linda is in
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: contradiction to the surrounding environment, you know, So.
• 58:49
  Speaker 3: It's almost more it's it's so much more.
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: Impressive to me that they've been able to do this,
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: you know, in the context of you know, where you
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: find this city.
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: And that presents the great hope, doesn't it, Because.
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: That's exactly right, because if they can do it, well, yeah.
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: They live.
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 59:06
  Speaker 4: If you get there from here, you drive down Highway ten,
• 59:09
  Speaker 4: which is six lanes, often under a call to smog.
• 59:13
  Speaker 4: You exit at Lo Molinda and the first thing you
• 59:16
  Speaker 4: see is a Wiener Hut and a Dell Taco and
• 59:18
  Speaker 4: it's like, what this is a blue zone. But you
• 59:21
  Speaker 4: go Inland a little bit and you see this community
• 59:24
  Speaker 4: of Seventh Day Adventists and their Conservative Methodists who evangelize
• 59:30
  Speaker 4: with health and they celebrate their Sabbath on Saturday not Sunday,
• 59:36
  Speaker 4: which makes them. You know, the other Blue zones are
• 59:39
  Speaker 4: kind of geographically remote. These guys are a little bit
• 59:41
  Speaker 4: culturally remote because you know, they kids aren't playing football
• 59:45
  Speaker 4: on Friday night or going to dances and Saturday. They're
• 59:48
  Speaker 4: you know, focusing on their religion and doing nature walks.
• 59:52
  Speaker 4: But it shows a few things. Number one, that your
• 59:56
  Speaker 4: social network, the people you hang out with, has the
• 59:59
  Speaker 4: bigg influence on your health, behaviors and anything else. They're
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 4: hanging out with people who other vegetarians. They know they
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 4: get their diet directly from the Bible, Genesis Chapter one.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 4: Every plant that bears seed, every tree that bears fruit,
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 4: so they're eating mostly a plant based diet. They're deeply spiritual.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 4: They hardwired right in their religion as a nature walk
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 4: on Saturday afternoon. So because of this environment that's created
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 4: around their religion, they are living seven to ten years
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 4: longer than the rest of us. And we know that demographically.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 4: But it just goes to show you don't have to
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 4: be an adventist to get this benefit. You proactively curate
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 4: a group of four or five friends. You know, you
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 4: want one rich role out there who gets you running,
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 4: and you want a friend or two is a vegan
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 4: or vegetarian, because when you're hanging out with them, you're
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 4: going to be learning how to eat plant based food.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 4: And you want two or three friends who when you
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 4: have a crappy day, like we all do, you can
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 4: call them and they'll care about you, and of course
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 4: vice versa. And uh, it's it's this building an advent,
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 4: just like I think social network is a takeaway.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: You got to make your MOI that's right, right, yeah,
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: So I'm just imagining somebody who's listening to this who
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: lives somewhere where they're like, I don't.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 3: I've never met anyone who.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: You know, eats that way or aspires to live any
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: differently than than how we live. Like, how does somebody
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: who finds themselves perhaps you know, geographically, you know, just
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: going from these ideas you know, and and and and
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: can't find that in their own community?
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: Like, how does that person proceed? I guess they can.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 3: They can at least start making the food out of
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: your cookbook.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: Yes, right, Juzon's kitchens at started place.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 4: Well, Uh, first I would think about getting very queer
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 4: on what my passions are, what I like to do,
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 4: and what I'm good at. And once you're queer on
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 4: those those three things. I would volunteer when you show
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 4: up to volunteer. First of all, we know that volunteers
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 4: are happier than non volunteers. But also you tend to
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 4: meet other people who are passion driven, and that's a
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 4: good pool from which to make new friends, service minded,
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 4: service minded people. And you know, if you're a dog person,
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 4: you volunteer for the Humane Society and you walk dogs
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 4: with other dog lovers. You know, and people who love
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 4: animals are more likely to be plant based, you know,
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 4: more likely to not eat animals than than you know,
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 4: people who shoot animals, for example. But I would find
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 4: the vegetarian restaurants and try those, or the vegan restaurants
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 4: and try those in a community, and then I would
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 4: you know, I actually have a tool on the Blue
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 4: Zones website that allows you to go through your social network.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 4: You know, if we really take kind of inventory on
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 4: the friends we have in our lives, and this inventory
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 4: actually asks the questions about how active they are, what
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 4: kind of food they eat, what their temperament is. We
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 4: often don't do that. We often just you know, phone
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 4: rings and you know, our buddy Jim, come on down
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 4: to the bar, you know we're meeting, and you just
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 4: sort of follow inertia as opposed to sort of proactively
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 4: looking back in your own group of friends to find
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 4: the ones who are going to help propel healthier habits
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 4: than the unhealthy.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: I just see like doing this inventory of one's relationships
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: and going.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 4: Holy shit, yeah again, I could just see the red
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 4: pans almost.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: Like sneaking of being a product of your environment, like,
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: holy cow, look these are the people I'm hanging out with.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: Like, well, Rich, let me ask you.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 4: I mean, you you have this terrific history, and you
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 4: know your New York days where you were a big
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 4: partier and different. I mean, I have to guess you
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 4: left the a lot of the pals you were hanging
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 4: around then behind.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: Well yeah, I mean in in uh in twelve step,
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: they call them lower companions. But I will say this,
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: like I had plenty of lower companions. But I also,
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: like I have like when I was in New York,
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: like a lot of that was fun, like and a
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: lot of the people I was running around with are
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: like really cool people. They just didn't have the problem
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: that I did. And I'm still friends with those people.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: But certainly, you know, when that, when that like addiction
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: thing turns and it starts getting dark, you find yourself
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: spending time with, you know, not the best, not.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 3: The greatest crowd of people.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: So yeah, when I got sober, I had to like
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: completely change my environment, and I invested in the twelve
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: step community here in LA and I knew, I was like,
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: I need new friends, you know, I need a whole
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: new set of friends, because left to my own devices,
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: that phone is going to ring and somebody's going to say, hey,
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: we're doing this, and that's what I'm going to go
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: do exactly. So I had to, in my own unconscious
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: you know, semi blue zone way I suppose, had to
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: like reconfigure my environment without moving geographically, but socially.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: Well, and that's the other thing.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 4: I mean, making new friends is a It's probably the
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 4: most powerful thing you can do to improve your happiness
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 4: and your longevity, and there's actually very good research around
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 4: the impact of the people you hang out with. But
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 4: the other thing is you say, well, without moving your geography,
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 4: probably the most powerful thing to do if you're unhappy
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 4: is moved to a happier place. And we know that
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 4: by following immigrants from unhappy places like Moldavia or unhappy
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 4: places in Africa in Southeast Asia. When they move to
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 4: Denmark very happy place or Canada a very happy place
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 4: within one year, their age doesn't change much, their education
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 4: level doesn't change, their sex doesn't change, their marital status
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 4: usually doesn't change, their sexual preference doesn't change. Nothing about
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 4: them changes. But within one year they start reporting the
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 4: happiness level of their adopted happy homes, and that often
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 4: represents a doubling of happiness. So, you know, if you're
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 4: not happy where you're living, when you think about it,
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 4: what's more important than the health and happiness of you
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 4: and your family? You got to really think about moving.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 4: And you know, I was on this Mel Robbins show
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 4: this week.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: I taped it. She's kind of cool.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 3: She's a kick in the pants.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah she has.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 3: She had a lot of energy. She does do her
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 3: TV show.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh cool. Yeah, I think it's gonna be out soon.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 4: But at the end of the I was on there
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 4: the whole show, and they brought out three divorced women.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 4: You know, we're having a really tough time, and one
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 4: of the women is, you know.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: Fifty seven.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 4: Her husband of thirty years did kind of a crappy thing,
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 4: and you know, ran off with another woman.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: Left her in this house and it's a house on
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: the beach. You know.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 4: She kept saying, it's a beautiful house on the beach,
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 4: but it's really isolated and she can't find new friends
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 4: and she's really lonely. And I said to her, probably
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 4: the best thing is move away from this house where
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 4: you have these thirty years of memories with this guy
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 4: who did this, you know, crappy thing to you, and
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 4: move it to a community where there's other people like you. Homafuly,
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 4: we like people like us where you can walk places,
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 4: you know, instead of trying to find a pill or
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 4: you know, even like joining a club or something like that. Move.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 4: You know, it's the biggest, most powerful thing you can do.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 4: It's so counterintuitive. The average American moves ten times in
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 4: his or her adult life. So it's not like something
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 4: we don't do, but we I think we under celebrate
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 4: the power of it.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's great advice. I would I would
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: add one caveat to that, which is is another thing
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: I've learned in sobriety, Like, uh, alcoholics and addicts love
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: to move.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 3: They loved I didn't know that Yeah, well, first of all.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: You know, because they've burned a bunch of bridges, so
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: they got to get out of dodge. But there is
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: this sort of perverted idea that that moving your geographic
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: location is going to save your problems. Like if you're
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: if you have some kind of emotional you know, disorder
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: or situation or addiction, moving your geographic location is not
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: going to solve that because you the thing, the thing
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: that you don't realize is you bring yourself with you,
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: So you got to kind of work on that as well.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 3: But I other than that, I agree with everything that
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 3: you said.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it's not going to change the person you
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 4: are on the inside. And if you're addicted or you know,
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 4: emotionally troubled, moving not necessarily going to address that.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: But it's gonna if.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 4: You're just a normal person struggling with normal things. I
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 4: would argue even a mild depression and anxiety can be
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 4: ameliorated by moving. And it's one of these things that
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 4: it's it just that's the deck in favor of a
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 4: better life. It doesn't promise a better life. It's not
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 4: going to release all of your demons. It just puts
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 4: you in an environment where you're more likely to bump
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 4: into people, you're more likely to get physical activity, you're
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 4: more likely going to socialize. And you know everybody else
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 4: is going to come on and say I got this
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 4: product that's gonna help you, and I'm gonna say forget
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 4: all the damn products. I'm the sort of disruptor and
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 4: saying no, it's it's it's not.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: Your behavior, it's your environment.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: What did what did mel say when you offered up
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: that advice on the show?
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: She liked it. Actually, she let me go on and on.
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: You know, she has got this count to five uh
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: strategy second rule, the five second rule.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 4: Which is not just for dropping your toast on the floor,
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 4: but apparently whenever you're stressed out or or you count
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 4: to five. And and what I love about her show
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 4: is is she, uh, so many Americans are struggling or
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 4: half Americans don't have four hundred dollars saved, and she
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 4: brings them on her show. And she's trying to you know,
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 4: not the dazzling celebrities she's trying to bring on.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: I think she's trying to.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 4: Address a growing number of people in this country are
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 4: suffering and you know, doing the best she can in
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 4: an education I mean entertainment format. But nevertheless, you know,
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 4: there's a true carrying on her part in a marshaling
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 4: of the available expertise.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent. I mean she has an incredible
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: talent and facility for being able to communicate inspirational, practical
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: ideas to that certain type of person who is suffering
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: in that way. And I think it's profound, Like she's
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: very talented what she does, she's great. So I'm interested
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: in you know, we were talking about happiness, like if
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: you're not a happy, move.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 3: So much of the work that you've done.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: You know, we've talked about the blue zones of longevity,
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: but you've also spent a lot of time working on
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: these blue zones of happiness. And in the Ven diagram
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: of longevity and happiness, very much overlaps, but it doesn't
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: overlap completely.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 3: Notion in of itself is interesting.
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah, if you can, if you can situate your life
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 4: so you're among the twenty percent of the happiest people
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 4: in America, it's worth about six years of life expectancy
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 4: over being in the least happy twenty percent.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: So they're highly correlated.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 4: It's very hard to be happy if you're not healthy
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 4: and vice the person and the Blue zones of longevity,
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 4: by the way, are in the top ten percent of
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 4: the happiest places in the world, but the places I
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 4: profiled for blue zones of happiness are different places. And
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 4: my once again my approach on happiness is, if you
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 4: want to be happier, don't try to change your behavior.
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 4: You'll fail and you probably you become a erotic because
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 4: none of these interventions, most of them don't work, and
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 4: the ones that work don't work for long enough to
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 4: make a real life change difference. Once again I argue
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 4: changing your environment. Happiness itself is a meaningless term because
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 4: you can't measure it. But social scientists can measure life satisfaction,
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 4: which is how you look at your life in the
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 4: rear view mirror and scale one to ten. How satisfied
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 4: are you with your life? And you can think of
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 4: your whole life and yeah, you know, I got a
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 4: good job.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: Give it a number.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 4: Then there's how you experience your life, which is how
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 4: often you smile and felt joined the last twenty four hours.
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: And then the third one is purpose. How often do
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: you get.
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 4: To use your strengths to do what you do best,
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 4: and those three strands come together and they weave together
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 4: to make what I think is of a rope of
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 4: sustainable happiness. So I found the statistically happiest place in
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 4: each of those three areas, and then I went and
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 4: told their story in an effort to marshal in the
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 4: science and blue zones of happiness is really because we
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 4: have so much data now. It was really trying to
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 4: tell a character driven story of places that represent the data. So,
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 4: in other words, the things you can do that's deck
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 4: the deck in favor of happiness.
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: And how do those Where do those diverge from the
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: pillars of the blue zones on longevity?
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 4: I don't think they necessarily diverge. I mean there's so
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 4: much over that. For example, we know that people are
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 4: eating six servings of vegetables every day. They're not only
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 4: living longer, but they're also reporting twenty percent more happiness.
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 4: People who have a strong social network, arguably the biggest
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 4: thing you can do for happiness, also favors your longevity.
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 4: Having a sense of purpose. Purpose is the pillars we
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 4: measure when it comes to happiness. So the best crossover
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 4: in the world is Costa Rica. So Costa Rica's home
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 4: to not only a Cooya, which is a longevity blue zone,
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 4: but Cartago, which is up in the highlands near San Jose,
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 4: which is a happiness blue zone. And Costa Rica interestingly
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 4: produces more. You know, there's a correlation between GDP, so
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 4: generally the rich of the country, the happier it is
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 4: to a point, but it's not the whole picture, right,
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 4: But Costa Rica produces more human happiness per GDP dollar
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 4: than any place in the world, and it produces more
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 4: health per healthcare dollar than any place in the world.
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 4: So it demonstrates that when it comes to happiness and longevity,
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 4: money is not that important. It's not nearly as important
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 4: as we think here in the United States.
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 3: You need secure it's sort of security over prosperity.
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 4: Well it's a they focus on the things that really
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 4: lead to.
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: Happiness.
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 4: So if happiness were a cake recipe, the important ingredients.
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 4: So you need food, you need shelter, you need some
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 4: health care. Those all cost some money. You need some
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 4: education flattens off after about a two years of college,
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 4: so you don't not everybody needs a college degree. Trusting
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 4: environment is really important, having the right partner in life,
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 4: having a job with meaningful work, the feeling of giving back.
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 4: These are all measurable ingredients. And the happiness and move
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 4: you know, if you're where you live is the one
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 4: with the biggest variants. So Cartago the happiest places. For example,
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 4: people are socially interacting between six and seven hours a day,
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 4: and not on Facebook, not on social media. They are
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 4: sitting across the table from their friend or so. The
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 4: place I profiled and cut toggle was the central market.
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 4: These these produce salesmen and it has the air of
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 4: a of a bunch of fifty year old frat boys
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 4: in a way and frat girls. It's it's a they
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 4: kind of tease each other. They they help out each other.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 4: They joke around when when somebody gets sick, they all
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 4: pitch into help for that person. The cheapest and healthiest
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 4: foods or the plant based foods they that they sell,
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 4: They live in walkable distance from home, they have easy
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 4: access to nature.
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: These are all things that are going to favor happiness.
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: They're not going to guarantee happiness.
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: They're so at odds with with everything that we've kind of,
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 2: you know, premised our American dream upon, you know, the
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 2: idea of like you get a house in the suburbs,
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: and you got two cars in the garage, and you
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: got the job downtown, and you're you know, you're just everything.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: You know, like you're climbing the corporate ladder, and it's
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: about getting ahead and that promotion and the two weeks
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 2: off and putting the money aside for the retirement. There
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: is nothing about that that speaks to what we actually have,
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 2: what you have actually discovered and know about what makes
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: people live long and live happily.
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 4: That's exactly right when it comes to happiness. Most people
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 4: in this country are misguided or just plain wrong. And
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 4: it's not because they're stupid, but because we're relentlessly marketed
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 4: this idea that if we have more, if we look better,
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 4: if we're younger, if we could.
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: Just get this one thing financial.
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 4: Freedom, better look in partner, a bigger house, that that's
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 4: going to deliver the happiness, And that's always misguided. Happiness
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 4: is always a cluster of factors that need to come together.
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 4: It's never just one thing, and we mis calculate the
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 4: amount of happiness any one goal is going to give
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 4: by about fifty percent. So, in other words, this thing
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 4: we think we want we're wrong half the time.
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 2: Well, the thing is, then you we're constantly being presented
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: with evidence that we're wrong.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 3: Right, Like when you get that job.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 2: Or that promotion or that car or that vacation, you
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: have that kind of momentary, you know, excitement around it
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: or sense of feeling good, but it so quickly fades,
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: and rather than challenging the whole setup or dynamic, we say, well, yeah,
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 2: that wore off, but like I just need to get
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: that next want to get the next thing, then it'll work.
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not.
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 4: Bad to have goals, but it's bad to think that
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 4: that to rely wholly on that goal and sacrifice too much.
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 4: Let's just take the context of a day and I'll
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 4: tell you exactly what statistically the things that you can
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 4: do that plan that stack the deck in your favor
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 4: for happiness.
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: First of all, wake up without alarm.
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 4: The happiest people are sleeping between eight and nine and
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 4: a half hours a day. If you're sleeping six hours,
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 4: you're about thirty percent less happy. Number two, eat a
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 4: plant based breakfast. If you eat a big, fatty breakfast
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 4: or sugar cereal breakfast, you're gonna be hungry mid day.
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 4: You're gonna have less energy throughout the day. Number three,
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 4: make sure you have coffee with a friend, you have
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 4: lunch with a friend. You want to make sure to
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 4: engineer in four or five hours or six if you can,
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 4: of social interaction with people you like. Volunteer. Find a
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 4: little time to give back every day. Worldwide, statistically speaking,
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 4: volunteers are happier than non volunteers. Take a nap, work
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 4: part time instead of part full time. We know from
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 4: every place in the world people are working less than
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 4: about thirty five hours a week. They report the highest
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 4: level of happiness. Of course, you need to make enough
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 4: money to cover your basic needs. Belonging to a faith.
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 4: It doesn't matter what the faith is, but belonging to
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 4: a faith stacks the deck in favor of happiness. Watching
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 4: TV and social media, it seems that about thirty minutes
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 4: a day of each is opt Actually that provides a
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 4: little bit more happiness than no social media and no
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 4: TV at all. But after about an hour and a
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 4: half of either one of those, your happiness starts to
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 4: drop off. The drop off a cliffs, So you don't
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 4: you want to spend about an hour a day exercising
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 4: at least, and that can be somebody as simple as
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 4: walking and gardening, or it could be you know, like
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 4: you do, you know, running a mini marathon every day,
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 4: But do we those things are going to stack the
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 4: deck in favor of happiness way more than shooting for
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 4: this financial freedom or you know, I want a house
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 4: in Beverly Hills, or I'm going to get that promotion,
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 4: damn it, no matter what it takes.
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: Wrong minded, Yeah, where does risk come into this? Like,
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 2: you're somebody who who very early on, you know, developed
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: a certain kind of relationship with adventure and exploration and
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 2: risk that that is somewhat unusual in our culture and
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 2: has kind of birthed this career that you're on. Most
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: people I would characterize as you know, more fear based
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 2: and risk averse in terms of trying to find that
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: purpose in your life and the sort of willingness required
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: to place yourself in uncomfortable, unpredictable situations. Like how do
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: you think about that in the context of happiness.
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 4: Well, I go on expeditions, not adventures, and I never
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 4: had much respect for the sort of the adventure risk
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 4: taking you go.
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 3: If you google you it's like National Geographic Explorer.
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm like I want to be like that.
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 3: That's like the coolest job title ever.
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: It is pretty cool.
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 2: And like, listen, you know you've been on the show
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 2: a number of times. The first time you came on,
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 2: you went into detail on this previous chapter of your
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 2: life where you set Guinness World Records for endurance cycling,
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 2: and you've ridden your bike, and you've done.
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 3: A lot of other stuff prior to this. So I
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 3: would characterize you as an.
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: Explorer, thank you. I'm an explorer, but not an adventurer.
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 4: You know, even though I biked across Africa, I biked
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 4: the last Argentina, I biked around the world through the
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 4: Soviet Union collapsed right after I left, I'd like to.
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 3: And they spent three days with one hundred and two
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 3: year old woman.
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: Yes, like that.
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 3: I think that's an adventure.
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: It is, but you know they weren't risks.
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 4: They were all very carefully planned out and calculated to
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 4: mitigate risk at everything.
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 3: But every explorer and an adventure says that.
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: Alex Honold sat across from me and said, like, he
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: doesn't think of what he does as being risky because
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 2: the people you've done so much work ahead of time
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 2: to prepare for that kind of thing.
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 4: I think what's more risky is sitting in front of
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 4: your TV and eating hot dogs and chips, because that
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 4: will mount to a certain death and probably a certain
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 4: you know, kind of misery through life or eat check.
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 3: I hear you.
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 4: But I think rather than risk, I've been blessed with
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 4: this irrational optimism that you know, you can do these
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 4: things that most people don't think about doing, or in fact,
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 4: you know, people have tried to dissuade me from doing them,
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 4: but very few of them require any risk.
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: But in terms of.
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 3: How you think about finding.
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: Your purpose right like you have to you have to
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 2: be willing to try new things and perhaps even cut
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 2: against the grain if you're in search of what that
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 2: might be that will lead you to your you know
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 2: ekey guy, Yes.
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: Well, I think.
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 4: It's a fairly simple exercise to take a piece of paper,
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 4: and people haven't reflected on this. Most Americans have never
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 4: reflected on this. You put four columns all the things
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 4: that you love to do. Then right next to it
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 4: same your passions, what you're good at, and then you
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 4: look at the commonalities on where your gifts are. Where
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 4: can you put these passions and skills to work? And
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 4: once you're clear on that, if you then design your
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 4: career around those the intersection of those things, you're setting
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 4: yourself up for success in life, not because you're going
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 4: to enjoy the journey. And as you know, if we're
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 4: doing what we loved, we're more likely to be successful.
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: It's like your podcast.
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 4: I remember, you know, first time we met, you came
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 4: over to my house with a little tape recorder.
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: And I got this podcast.
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 4: I didn't know what it was it, you know, it
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 4: sounded like you know, something you keep makeup in or something.
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 4: But anyway, the the UH and you've you've grown it
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 4: into this empire. And I know enough about you that
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 4: you're living your passion UH every day by not only
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 4: talking about your ulter endurance but also using the life
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 4: lessons you've learned in the life lessons of the people
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 4: you bring on to better people's lives, and Low and
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 4: Behold grows. So it's it's getting clear on your purpose
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 4: and then going from there.
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 2: I think it also is about, you know, finding that
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 2: thing that you click with, that you connect with, that
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 2: you not only have some kind of natural affinity for,
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: but also has been a transformative influence in your life.
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 2: And then figuring out a way to translate that in
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 2: service to others to perhaps have a positive impact. That's
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 2: at large, That's what I've heard you speak about that
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 2: in so many words before.
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 4: That service to others is really important too, because if
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 4: it was just a selfish pursuit, it rings hollow.
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 2: After a well, that's I mean, I think that's the
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 2: secret sauce of happiness. And it's so counterintuitive because we're
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: in a selfish culture where we're taught that happiness is
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 2: a direct result of pursuing what's ours or accumulating. But
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 2: in truth, when you can transcend your ego, get outside
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 2: yourself and invest yourself in somebody else's problem or issue,
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: all your bullshit tends to evaporate, and you find yourself
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 2: more present, grounded, grateful. All of the things that we're
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: seeking in wrongheaded ways come.
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 3: By virtue of doing that.
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: I've heard it.
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 3: I'm saying that to remind myself. Yeah, well you're reminding
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 3: me to my natural inclination.
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 4: I've heard it summed up really elegantly. This, So the
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 4: four key ingredients to happiness are someone to love, something
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 4: to do, something to look forward to, and something to
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 4: give back.
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: You know, if you can get those sort of four.
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 4: Things into your daily life, you're you're you're pretty well
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 4: set up.
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 3: That's pretty good. I think that's a good place, though.
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 2: I'll take pretty good. I'll take pretty good ritual. What's
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: your favorite recipe in the Blue Zones Kitchen.
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 4: Book, it's the lease MINISTRONI so I met the longest
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 4: lived family in the history of the world, nine siblings
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 4: collective age.
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: Eight hundred and sixty one years.
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 4: Every day of their life they had the same lunch,
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 4: a sour dough bread, a small two or three ounces
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 4: of red can.
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: And a wine.
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 4: In this minnestrone, which is made from black eyed peas,
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 4: lentil beans, garbanzo beans, cruciferous vegetables, onions, garlic, tomato, a
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 4: little bit of olive oil, some pasta, and together it
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 4: creates this absolute longevity stew that's an absolute feast for
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 4: our microbiome. And it's also delit freeze as well. It's delicious.
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 4: I fed that to an entire city, Elbertly, Minnesota. I
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 4: made twenty five hundred dishes, and this was a meat
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 4: packing plant city, and their definition of vegetables before this
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 4: minnestrone was like the orange flex on Hamburger helper and
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 4: I had two I had two boiling cauldrons of in
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 4: this city, eight every last drop of it.
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 3: So that's cool. That's amazing.
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 2: So you're working now, you've worked now with like over
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 2: forty cities, right, fifty fifty?
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we just had fifty cities today.
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 4: Orlando, Florida is a big city coming on in Jacksonville, Austin,
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 4: Texas with their buddies at Whole Foods.
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 3: Nice. That's exciting. Man. How many people are working for
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 3: Blue Zones now?
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: About two hundred?
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 3: Wow?
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's grown.
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 2: So is that like looking forward over twenty twenty? Is
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 2: that occupying most of your time? I mean, I know
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 2: you do a lot of public speaking and the like,
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 2: like what's on tap for you?
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 4: And we started out with an idea and now it's grown,
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 4: and the challenge now is scaling this and bringing enough
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 4: top notch talent. So it's it's almost like an adventure
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 4: of sorts to to build this this team so that
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 4: it can handle the size of the cities that are
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 4: inviting us in.
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 3: And you're working on another book, not.
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 4: Yet, I'm taking a break from I have to do
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 4: uh one more edition of blue zones and uh uh,
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 4: we think there might be one more blue zone. And
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 4: I'm I'm, I'm, I'm trying to confirm that if I do,
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 4: all come out with another story and geographic and super.
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: Secret, super secret.
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 3: Wow, that's exciting.
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, if it is, I can guarantee it's the last
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 4: one on Earth.
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 3: But you got you've milked this thing for a lot
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 3: of books, my friends. I don't blame you though. It's
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 3: amazing work. How's Kathy?
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: Is she good?
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 4: Kathy Freston, my chrysiferous girlfriend, who says, Hi, she's the
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 4: vegan vixen. You know, she's been a great influence on
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 4: you know, really an early pioneer and making uh point
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 4: based eating cool.
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, huge huge influence on mainstreaming what we
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 2: now kind of almost take for granted, like, oh, vegan
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 2: options pretty much everywhere you go, but like Kathy played
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 2: a huge part of it.
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you got Oprah to go vegan for a while, and.
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 4: Ellen DeGeneres and Cross World Kitchens, which I argue is
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 4: one of the best restaurants, and Los Angeles is all
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 4: plant based and that would have been seen as a
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 4: heresy yeah fifteen years ago.
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 2: Well kind of also a big influence on you personally.
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 2: Like I think even in the time that I've known you,
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 2: you've had an evolution in terms of your plant based diet,
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 2: you know, relationship.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know I've come.
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 4: I've come to a plant based diet by observing the
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 4: diets of the world's longest people. In ninety five percent
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 4: of what they put in their mouth as whole plant
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 4: based food. But she comes at it instead of the
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 4: animal cruelty. And I never even thought of, you know
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 4: that the occasional piece of meat I ate occasioned, you know,
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 4: just just horrible pain and stuff frame from another sentient.
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 4: Bean my my favorite statistics. She she told me that
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 4: an adult pig has the intelligence of a three year
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 4: old human, spends its entire life in a cage you
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 4: can't turn around, and lives in its own feces, connects
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 4: with its it's young the same way we connect with
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 4: our young, wants to socialize, feels pain in the same way,
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 4: yet lives a miserable life and has a horrible death
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 4: at the end, all in the.
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: Service of you know, bacon or pork chop. And it's
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: you know, when.
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 4: You add that to the fact that you know, eating
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 4: a plant based diet is probably worth six to eight
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 4: years over eating a standard American diet.
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: It's just so overwhelmingly right.
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 3: To that, not to environmental consideration.
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 1: And yeah it's the third problem.
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, Well we got to round this out here.
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 2: I just want to say, for the record and publicly
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 2: that you have been a huge inspiration to me and
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 2: a bit of a mentor. I appreciate you as an individual,
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 2: as a human being, as a.
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 3: Friend, and I have so much respect for the work.
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 2: That you are doing and will continue to do. You
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 2: are truly changing millions of lives and the ripple effect
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 2: of that will be seen for generations to come because
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 2: of what you're doing in these cities.
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 3: And it's really no small thing.
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, you've you've basically created a term that has
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 2: entered the modern lexicon. Like everybody knows what the blue
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 2: zones are right now, and it starts with you.
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 3: And so thank you for that. You're a gift to humanity. Well,
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 3: very glad to have you in my life.
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 4: Brother from another mother. I consider you the core of
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 4: my Malie rich.
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna have to get out to Santa Barbara then
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 2: and solidify that.
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 3: So thanks Matt, Thank you for the kind word. Welcome
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 3: back anytime, and I think.
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: That we recorded.
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 3: Time I get recorded, I think we're good. All right,
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 3: then peace