Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Si Hart & Frazer Gregory about their choice of Planet of the Spiders (4/6)

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Talks to Si Hart & Frazer Gregory about their choice of Planet of the Spiders (4/6) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:22
  None hamster with a blump pen knife
• 0:35
  for doing. Quicker, quicker, quicker.
• 0:41
  Welcome back to a hamster with a Oh my God, I've forgotten what
• 0:43
  it's called. I've done this 700 times.
• 0:46
  How can I forget this? I'll start again.
• 0:48
  That line. Give me 3 seconds.
• 0:52
  Fine, This is a new low. This is it's.
• 0:55
  Been that long since we recorded the first part.
• 0:57
  He can't remember what his own podcast is called, though.
• 1:00
  I have recorded since then, No. Yes.
• 1:04
  In fact, I recorded Monday, for God sakes.
• 1:06
  OK, right. Count me in.
• 1:09
  Hey. 321. Oh, welcome back to our Hamster
• 1:13
  the Blood Pen Knife, the Doctor Who commentary podcast.
• 1:17
  I got it right. Easy for you to see it's.
• 1:21
  Not, apparently, all this. Time the Holy Trinity are back
• 1:27
  together again. Now, you won't know this,
• 1:29
  because I'll be bringing out six episodes of Planet of the
• 1:32
  Spiders in succession once every two days, but there has in fact
• 1:38
  been a recording break of. About eight months between the
• 1:43
  first half and the second-half of Planet of the Spiders So.
• 1:46
  Should. Psy, hello.
• 1:48
  Psy. Hello, Fraser.
• 1:50
  Hello, Fraser. Hello.
• 1:53
  Repeat myself. Repeat ourselves.
• 1:56
  We humbly apologize. Well, that's fine.
• 2:00
  I mean, it's a Pertwee 6 parter, so there's.
• 2:02
  Obviously going to be. Some long reprises in the middle
• 2:06
  where where they're not quite meeting the running time and
• 2:09
  every and we're just go back over what what's happened
• 2:11
  already, It's fine. My my biggest worry is that I'm
• 2:15
  going to say something in the last three episodes that
• 2:17
  completely contradicts something I said in the first three
• 2:19
  episodes. Right.
• 2:20
  So I'll. I'll do that in the mid.
• 2:22
  I'll do that about three times in every recording anyway, so
• 2:25
  don't worry about. It one thing that I do remember
• 2:28
  from the last episode, which everyone heard yesterday, is
• 2:33
  that I might have accidentally called Robert Holmes a big
• 2:36
  massive racist. I.
• 2:39
  Believe you did, yes. Yes.
• 2:41
  Well, yes, because I just want to make, you know, abundantly
• 2:44
  clear that I don't actually think anyone involved in the
• 2:48
  making of Doctor Who is a big, massive racist.
• 2:51
  I think some episodes have got some problematic themes and
• 2:54
  images and such like, but I do not any point believe that was
• 3:00
  intentional. I think all these issues are
• 3:04
  products of the time that they were made and things available
• 3:07
  to people. So you know, they say yeah, such
• 3:10
  and such was a big old racist because they went and did this
• 3:13
  thing is I think not true. They just did what they did.
• 3:17
  It was the time that we're in and we can now look at it, you
• 3:21
  know, 50 years later with better eyes.
• 3:26
  However, I mean, you're talking about Justin Planet and the
• 3:28
  Spiders or Doctor Who as a as in general.
• 3:32
  Be honest, I'd had a beer the last time and I can't remember
• 3:34
  exactly how racist I called him. No wonder you were such a
• 3:37
  sarcastic git last time then. But I do remember it coming up
• 3:41
  and that's overriding memory of of that one is a must.
• 3:46
  You know, when we do Episode 4, at the very start, I must
• 3:49
  apologise for calling people racist when they actually, when
• 3:51
  I actually don't think they are racist.
• 3:53
  And yeah, eight months later I have remembered that at least.
• 3:56
  Well, that's good, because I'm not going to apologize for
• 3:58
  saying that this story is full of padding.
• 4:02
  Well, you shouldn't. It absolutely is full of
• 4:04
  padding. Well, it's Terrence Dick's
• 4:07
  padding. Which means it's fantastic.
• 4:09
  Padding. Yes.
• 4:10
  Well, I will say to the pair of you though, so I you're just
• 4:15
  just so you don't contradict yourself, you know going
• 4:17
  forward. Your general approach to Planet
• 4:20
  the Spiders was that you had great affection for it.
• 4:23
  And that you enjoyed it immensely.
• 4:26
  Well, that sounds in character. I mean, that's just you.
• 4:29
  To a fault, I mean, that's the yeah.
• 4:31
  Fraser, your general. Consensus about planet and
• 4:34
  spiders is that it is the Pertwee as Pertwee I believe you
• 4:38
  said, and for all of its flaws, it should be celebrated as the
• 4:44
  most Pertwee as Pertwee. That sounds like the sort of
• 4:47
  thing I'd say after a beer. I think you're you're pretty
• 4:51
  well spot on, so we might as well just not cover the rest.
• 4:55
  It's taken us eight months to get here.
• 4:57
  All right, we. Do.
• 4:58
  No, we're actually better, hadn't we?
• 5:00
  Plus Fraser's technical difficulties tonight.
• 5:02
  Come on now. I I would do have something to
• 5:06
  say about episode four, though, which I did watch this evening.
• 5:10
  I do think this is the weakest episode of the entire serial.
• 5:14
  I think it's a big problem that Jon Pertwee is unconscious for
• 5:17
  2/3 of this episode because the second he wakes up it lifts
• 5:21
  straight away and essentially we spend most of our time either
• 5:25
  around those books at the meditation centre, just
• 5:29
  panicking. A lot or we spend on some that.
• 5:36
  There is some. Ripe dialogue amongst the
• 5:39
  Metabelians. Metabelians.
• 5:42
  Yeah, those ones. Yeah.
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  How did he say it? Matt Smith.
• 5:46
  Metabolis the right way. Oh.
• 5:47
  Metabolis. Yeah, yeah, I saw.
• 5:50
  I I do think this is a tricky episode of all of them.
• 5:53
  I think this is the the toughest watch.
• 5:57
  Oh yes, it is, isn't it? Just do the the accents and then
• 6:01
  it will be fine. So let's.
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  Oh, my father, my my father's been down.
• 6:08
  No, the spiders. And no, they're going to eat us
• 6:11
  all if. We get through.
• 6:13
  This I'm going to give you all some mutton broth.
• 6:15
  OK, Mum Broth. You have Shapiro metabolis.
• 6:21
  Oh, great. Yeah, there's some very
• 6:24
  interesting dialogue here. Well, look, let's skip into
• 6:27
  episode 4 and get it over and done with.
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  Because then in five and six, I think there's actually a bit of
• 6:31
  gold. Got to my my favorite scene, the
• 6:36
  perk we ever does. Oh, it's not.
• 6:38
  Even do you remember that? Is it when he's in that cocoon?
• 6:41
  I'm not saying anything. If it is, that's hilarious.
• 6:45
  He looks like he's trusted up in the Sainsbury's.
• 6:47
  Carrier bag, it's very. Funny.
• 6:49
  Well, someone count as in them. Go on then, let's press play in
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  54321. Go hurray.
• 7:01
  For the iPlayer this makes such a big difference, I'm.
• 7:03
  On the iPlayer as well. I know nothing.
• 7:06
  I wasn't on the iPlayer the last time.
• 7:08
  Oh. God no.
• 7:08
  No. So much has changed.
• 7:12
  Well, because we flying through the time vortex.
• 7:15
  Something really massive has changed, doesn't it?
• 7:17
  We have lost cup news. We have.
• 7:21
  Oh, of course. Of course.
• 7:22
  Yeah, on Christmas Day. Yeah.
• 7:24
  So that's that tinges things a little bit do.
• 7:29
  You know, the only sort of updates I ever got about Richard
• 7:32
  Franklin was the tweets that Katie Manning would post
• 7:34
  whenever she'd go and visit him, you know, And it was quite nice.
• 7:37
  It was quite reassuring, like once a month you get a
• 7:40
  photograph of the two of them together, it shows up what's
• 7:45
  occurring it, oh. Oh.
• 7:47
  It's a very long reprise. It's about 3 minutes, isn't it?
• 7:51
  Yeah. Does that mean we're under
• 7:53
  running? I think so, yeah.
• 7:56
  Yes, look at Purpley's fabulous hair.
• 7:59
  I You can always tell where you are in the Purpley.
• 8:02
  Oh yeah. Yeah, shut up, you.
• 8:07
  I don't remember us talking too much about the spiders, actually
• 8:10
  in the first half. I'm not sure.
• 8:13
  I don't think, well, we haven't seen much of them so far, have
• 8:16
  we? Oh, I actually was quite
• 8:18
  impressed watching this today. You know, the sort of twitchy,
• 8:21
  twitchy legs and abdomen, Yeah. Well, they're good.
• 8:25
  They're. Very nicely done.
• 8:29
  You know, this was it. I watched the the making of this
• 8:33
  afternoon and Irvine was on talking about how we'd you know
• 8:38
  had spiders that the the main spiders that needed move on
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  wires that had the dummy spiders the extra spiders just at the
• 8:46
  back. You know good.
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  Move up, move up move up with nylon wire I.
• 8:53
  Love those ones. I meant it wasn't there, Boris
• 8:55
  as well. There was, but we don't see
• 8:57
  Boris on screen because he was too horrific.
• 9:02
  Ah, OK, what? They were worse than this.
• 9:06
  Yeah, Oh yes. Yeah.
• 9:08
  There was one that they vetoed, I think, which was going to play
• 9:10
  the great one that was just too nasty to be seen on screen.
• 9:16
  Can I say right, I did notice something, You know you've got
• 9:18
  Jon Pertwee there reaching for the TARDIS, just like Patrick
• 9:22
  Trouton did in the War Games episode 9.
• 9:25
  And just like Peter Davidson does at the end of Case of
• 9:28
  Andrazzani as well, So do we save this for regeneration
• 9:32
  stories? The Doctor struggling to get to
• 9:35
  the TARDIS. Well, it's your place of safety,
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  isn't it? That's where you want to be.
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  That is true. Oh, there's Nesca.
• 9:42
  Look, Jenny Laird herself. Oh, she is terrible, isn't?
• 9:48
  She Why was there an? Award done in her honour.
• 9:52
  Maybe she's paid a lot of money. I think it was actually her
• 9:56
  husband. Who created the?
• 9:58
  Awards. Yeah, Captain Yates got a
• 10:03
  fabulous haircut as well. Yeah, and a fabulous jacket.
• 10:06
  I like his jacket. It is weird that as we head into
• 10:09
  Tom Baker's time, I swear the hair gets shorter.
• 10:12
  It's only during poetry's time, yeah, we've got these terrible
• 10:15
  mullets going on. It's It's certainly not
• 10:18
  military. Is it the haircut?
• 10:20
  No. In no way.
• 10:21
  Whatsoever. Who didn't?
• 10:23
  Barry. Let's say to Richard Franklin on
• 10:25
  his first day going up another haircut, like your hair is not
• 10:29
  short enough. So what happened?
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  Did he just relax a bit? I guess so.
• 10:34
  Make it you can understand because he's not in the army
• 10:37
  anymore. He's, you know, he's a hippy
• 10:40
  nose isn't he so, And the Brigadier though.
• 10:42
  But the Brigadier has got like he's second biggest bouffant in
• 10:48
  the store. He belongs to the Brigadier.
• 10:50
  I mean, Fraser, your hair's looking truly fabulous today and
• 10:54
  it's exquisite. Season 70.
• 10:56
  It's way, way shorter than the Brigadiers.
• 11:01
  There's Terrace Lodge, otherwise known as Fraser Gregory.
• 11:05
  From the 1970s. Did you post a?
• 11:07
  Picture of that the other day. I did, Yes.
• 11:11
  I went one better. I posted the clip of them going
• 11:14
  stop it. Stop it from the next episode.
• 11:18
  Can I ask you a question about these characters?
• 11:20
  Do we care about these people? Well, no.
• 11:24
  Well, no. Thank you.
• 11:27
  At least you're honest. I mean, there's Tommy.
• 11:30
  We care about Tommy, but the others are just.
• 11:34
  They're just lots and fodder to be honest.
• 11:38
  But we do cut back to them a lot in the last three episodes.
• 11:41
  Yeah, well, more than I remember.
• 11:43
  I mean, this is the problem, isn't it?
• 11:45
  Because obviously we've got the actions on metabolis, but we're
• 11:50
  cutting back because we're padding.
• 11:53
  So we have to cut back to Earth, but Lupton's on metabolis.
• 11:57
  We need someone back on Earth to be the heel.
• 12:03
  So because I haven't got locked and we'll have to have Huey
• 12:07
  Durian or whatever you call them.
• 12:09
  Huey Durian, Louis. Well then that leads me to
• 12:11
  another question then, gentlemen, and that is because
• 12:14
  you said at the beginning of this call Fraser, it's Terence
• 12:17
  Dick's padding. So what is the difference
• 12:19
  between good padding and bad padding?
• 12:24
  I think good padding. You don't always notice it.
• 12:29
  I think, you know Episode 2 is is 20 minutes of pardon, because
• 12:35
  that's how long the drive around the countryside and lanes,
• 12:40
  trains and automobiles. And you don't care because it's
• 12:43
  fun and it's exciting and you're swept up and going on, as you
• 12:48
  know, when it's like a good argument.
• 12:52
  You know, like the Dominators when they pad when Terrence pads
• 12:54
  the Dominators. Yes.
• 12:56
  You know he has Raghu and Toba. When he has that.
• 12:58
  Core go up to him, doesn't he? Yeah, and threaten to execute
• 13:01
  him. Then you know that's good
• 13:03
  padding because you actually enjoy watching it.
• 13:06
  You know, things like the Thai monster where Jon Pertwee is
• 13:11
  pissing on with a wine bottle and a bag a cup of tea.
• 13:15
  I love that bit. Yeah, but you're kind of sitting
• 13:18
  there. The Brigadier stud with the
• 13:19
  backroom should would not go and you know, stop them.
• 13:22
  I still know well. I mean, that's even worse than
• 13:25
  it to point out that this is. Exactly.
• 13:27
  Exactly. That's where you're.
• 13:28
  Kind of thinking the fact that they build this stupid machine
• 13:33
  and then the first thing it does is fall apart.
• 13:35
  I know, you know, it's just like, why did we even bother?
• 13:39
  It takes 10. Minutes to make, Masters TARDIS
• 13:42
  for two seconds and. Like I always feel like the most
• 13:45
  egregious padded scene is that one in time lash that they added
• 13:50
  where they're just bitching in the TARDIS for about 7 minutes
• 13:55
  and he physically picks her up and throws her out.
• 13:58
  That scene there, that's that's what I think is like the the
• 14:01
  worst padding scene that I can think of.
• 14:07
  Yeah, I think that's pretty good.
• 14:09
  Oh, I was waiting for someone to disagree with me.
• 14:10
  Then what do you think of the The Spider Supermarket, as
• 14:15
  Terrance Dicks calls it, You know, all on their lovely
• 14:17
  shelves? It.
• 14:22
  Notice looked in this as well. Well, he is, yeah.
• 14:26
  He's very much on the shelf. This is part of his problem.
• 14:30
  He's took a seat with the He's took a seat with with the
• 14:33
  spiders. Yeah, well, he he sat on the
• 14:37
  Queen's throne. Yeah, exactly.
• 14:41
  It's. It's a yeah.
• 14:43
  It's a strange old set and I do think we might have covered this
• 14:47
  because it's not Cobwebby enough, no?
• 14:50
  Well, apparently they they were putting cobwebs in, but it's
• 14:55
  just lit wrong so you can't see the cobwebs.
• 14:58
  Reminder do chop suey. Oh, did anyone hear that?
• 15:03
  I. Heard that reminder do.
• 15:06
  Chop suey. Do chop suey somebody, all
• 15:09
  right. OK, that's my Alexa going off.
• 15:13
  I have muted the mate. Immortalized in this.
• 15:15
  Episode now. So the mute doesn't work on my
• 15:19
  microphone. We've established that one.
• 15:21
  So here goes. Tommy and I had that that Lady
• 15:27
  Bird book that he's reading, which is that we go to school.
• 15:31
  That was one that I had as a kid, so I knew that one very
• 15:34
  well. I think there's a tale of you
• 15:37
  for you. Thank you.
• 15:38
  Only editing is very good there when you cut between him and the
• 15:41
  crystal. Really really fast.
• 15:45
  And it's doing what Michael Lee Bryant did in the Green Death.
• 15:48
  So you've got that little bit of continuity with how the how the
• 15:53
  crystal works. So why are we smoothing out
• 15:56
  Tommy's mind though? Is there a plot function for
• 16:00
  that or is it just development for that character?
• 16:02
  I think it's it's it's a little bit of both and it's reminding
• 16:07
  the audience of the power of the crystal that this is what
• 16:12
  happened in The Green Death, that it swept the manure parts
• 16:15
  of your mind clean, didn't it so.
• 16:17
  What parts of your mind? The neural mind.
• 16:19
  Oh, sign. Please.
• 16:21
  Yeah, I remember this. I remember that script very
• 16:23
  well. So, you know, it's just
• 16:26
  reminding you of that. This is a very powerful thing,
• 16:30
  and it's that reminder for the audience.
• 16:32
  Because it hasn't. We haven't been shown what The
• 16:35
  Crystal can do, really, in this story, other than knocks and tea
• 16:39
  trays around in part One. Is it not an incredible
• 16:43
  coincidence that the One crystal, the vital crystal of
• 16:48
  this lattice that will allow the queen, spider or whatever and
• 16:53
  the Great One to take over all of existence, just happens to be
• 16:57
  the one the Doctor naps well? There wouldn't be much of A
• 17:00
  story if then if it wouldn't there.
• 17:02
  In fairness, there could be like, you know, like hundreds of
• 17:05
  them and she's used 99 already and she just needs the last one.
• 17:11
  So it could have been any of the 100.
• 17:12
  What we needed was Fraser, Fraser to cover it with a line.
• 17:16
  I think that is actually covered in in the last episode where the
• 17:21
  Great One says I need the one last perfect crystal, not the
• 17:25
  not the the one perfect crystal. So I think it's sort of been
• 17:29
  misinterpreted slightly so that there are a whole series of
• 17:33
  perfect crystals and this is just the last one that she needs
• 17:36
  to get ultimate power. What you're in fact suggesting
• 17:38
  is that there are no problems with the script.
• 17:40
  I just wasn't paying attention. Yes, fair enough.
• 17:47
  Oh. Yeah, yeah.
• 17:48
  Pertwee's slightly unconscious acting.
• 17:51
  Having a nice lie down. What are the nose shots?
• 17:55
  I mean it. It is the Greatest Hits of
• 17:56
  Pertwee. So you know, there he is.
• 17:58
  The Doctor's unconscious. Yes, again, leg in the air.
• 18:02
  Why? Does he have his leg in the air
• 18:03
  though? I don't think his leg actually
• 18:05
  SAT. I think it was from an injury
• 18:08
  that he'd got so he didn't actually go flat.
• 18:10
  Because it's the same. During the regeneration.
• 18:12
  Scene, isn't it? It's exactly the same.
• 18:14
  Exactly. And I think if you watch him,
• 18:16
  whenever he's he's lying down. It's always the same.
• 18:20
  I'm being a bit mean about this episode, so I'm going to say
• 18:22
  something nice now. I do think these sets are
• 18:24
  beautifully lit here to suggest night time.
• 18:27
  I thought there was a there. Was a.
• 18:29
  Good atmosphere here. Well, yeah, sorry, in a minute
• 18:32
  there. Was the set designer on this
• 18:34
  because she's in the making of? Rochelle, Selwyn.
• 18:38
  There we go. Look at that.
• 18:39
  That just came out of nowhere. That's.
• 18:41
  Not a name I recognize. No, I mean she.
• 18:43
  Only did the one. She's probably a reason for
• 18:46
  that. She talks at length about the
• 18:49
  sets in the making of and you know, going back to what years
• 18:53
  were saying when when I thought my microphone was on mute, the
• 18:56
  cobwebs there's there is cobwebs all over that the the seller,
• 19:03
  but they just aren't visible. Oh, that's what I was thinking
• 19:06
  of. So the the seller is is
• 19:09
  cobwebbed as you know to like the fierce standards but it just
• 19:13
  isn't showing because of the lighting, because of the the
• 19:17
  camera, whatever. In terms of the spider
• 19:20
  supermarket, the didn't cobweb that up because you know people
• 19:25
  are coming in and out and having to move the spiders around on
• 19:28
  wires, so any cobwebs that they put in would be OK would
• 19:33
  interfere. Shame though.
• 19:34
  Or they should have just brought the lights down maybe or
• 19:36
  something. Well, you know that she says
• 19:39
  that. She says.
• 19:39
  You know, I went up to the the lighting gallery, you know, I
• 19:43
  saw the way they were lighting it and saw how I was going to
• 19:44
  look. So I went up the lighting
• 19:45
  gallery and made my feelings perfectly clear and was ignored.
• 19:50
  Oh. Now is that because she's the
• 19:52
  set designer or is that because she's a wood?
• 19:55
  It's probably a bit of both, yeah.
• 19:57
  It would be. You know, it's, you know, she's
• 20:00
  she she goes as fast to say, you know, every time I look at this,
• 20:03
  I'm embarrassed and you know that.
• 20:06
  Sort of begs the question of if Barry Letts can get the lighting
• 20:10
  down for these scenes, why couldn't he get them down for
• 20:14
  the throne room scenes? And it would have helped with
• 20:16
  the spider effects you know as well.
• 20:19
  Well, I mean, I think the light is really good in the lamasterie
• 20:23
  as well and down in the. Cellar.
• 20:25
  Cellar is. Very.
• 20:26
  Yeah, everything sort of picked out in shadows and silhouette in
• 20:28
  the in the cellar. So we've obviously got someone
• 20:32
  with a bit of talent is just, yeah, just that one that lets it
• 20:37
  down. Is so she was.
• 20:39
  She talks about, you know, what she's put on the floor and how
• 20:41
  there's like six or seven different materials that she's
• 20:43
  used on. I always remember.
• 20:46
  That, yes. And that's really refreshing
• 20:47
  because it does feel like like an outside floor.
• 20:51
  Yeah. But then you go into the.
• 20:52
  Corridors and. It's completely flat in the
• 20:54
  corridors like it's like some some things is working and
• 21:00
  others it's not. I think it's where we was
• 21:04
  looking with Doctor Who was. You know, people put an effort
• 21:06
  in. People don't just come in and
• 21:07
  go, that'll do. You know you have people that
• 21:09
  are going to come in and say yeah well I'll put cork and wood
• 21:13
  and broken glass and you know get jump out when you fall over
• 21:16
  and broken glass to make make it look as as good as I can so much
• 21:22
  just says I'm really proud of you know what I've done.
• 21:25
  I'm just really sad that the let it the way they did.
• 21:31
  What did the Doctor just do then?
• 21:33
  He seemed to give himself an enormous electric shock to wake
• 21:35
  himself up. Yeah, it's something from his
• 21:39
  restorative machine. It's it's a little.
• 21:41
  Something. And I gave him a glass of what
• 21:43
  looked like regeneration. New series regeneration energy.
• 21:47
  Where the fuck does that leisure lever satchel come from?
• 21:51
  The TARDIS obviously. Bench my lever satchel from the
• 21:54
  TARDIS. Sarah Jane, You know the one.
• 21:58
  The one I've never used before. And never will use again.
• 22:03
  Well, it's it's just got these metabolis Hoover in it.
• 22:07
  You know to suck out the spider rays and ZAP them out the other
• 22:10
  end. I think that that gas lamp he
• 22:12
  used in Death of the Darlings is in there as well.
• 22:14
  You know it's. Probably.
• 22:15
  Yeah, it's like Mary Poppins's bags.
• 22:17
  It's full of useful. Although he did say it was
• 22:22
  really odd. He did say, oh, there's some
• 22:23
  cobwebs there, look. There is, yeah.
• 22:25
  Look at that. That's great.
• 22:27
  That's a good shock, actually, right in front of the camera.
• 22:29
  Is that cobwebs or is that just his hair?
• 22:33
  It's the 70s. Who knows?
• 22:36
  The Doctor did say that without that machine, because it's the
• 22:40
  only thing that would save me. So the the suggestion there is
• 22:44
  that whatever they did to him, he's near death.
• 22:46
  Yeah. Well, isn't he always?
• 22:49
  It's Pearl. He's always dying.
• 22:50
  He's such a drama, Coin, isn't he?
• 22:52
  Yeah. You know, he he only did that
• 22:54
  last story so that Sarah Jake could sob over him.
• 22:57
  When he's attacked by the gay. Ray, isn't he?
• 22:59
  Yes. Don't you remember, Fraser?
• 23:03
  That rainbow ray the alarm. System.
• 23:07
  Oh, it's wonderful. And that's.
• 23:09
  That's a story after he's been attacked by the by the gay ray
• 23:12
  of Exelon. Yeah, no one.
• 23:16
  He's been punished a lot. His body can't take it anymore.
• 23:19
  No wonder he dies at the end. Fin, isn't he?
• 23:23
  Can I ask you guys what you think of Gareth Hunt?
• 23:25
  Soon to be you know everybody's heartthrob hero in the new
• 23:29
  adventures. Got a nice mustache?
• 23:35
  Yeah, he's all right. You know, actually, yeah, it's.
• 23:44
  Not I feel as if you want to say something uncomplimentary, you
• 23:47
  can do it. It's all right.
• 23:49
  It's OK. I don't think he's very good in
• 23:51
  this. And it's a shame because he's
• 23:53
  very good in other things around this time.
• 23:56
  So he's he's quite a big TV star at this point because he's just
• 23:59
  done a couple of years of Upstairs, Downstairs and he's
• 24:03
  just about to go into the New Avengers with Patrick Mcnee and
• 24:07
  Joanne alumni. And he's.
• 24:09
  So naturalistic in that as well, isn't he?
• 24:11
  Yeah, but here he's saddled with with the ridiculous.
• 24:14
  Accent and the the ridiculous dialogue, yeah.
• 24:18
  And it doesn't quite come off. He's got a very pretty brother
• 24:22
  though. Oh.
• 24:23
  Ralph Alice is gorgeous, isn't he?
• 24:25
  I'll fight you for him. That is definitely like a 70's
• 24:30
  porn star. The star style, innit?
• 24:31
  I mean, look at him. It's very much so.
• 24:34
  It's like the one Colin Baker had about this time, if you've
• 24:37
  seen the photos. Oh, exactly.
• 24:39
  The one where he's naked, sort of crossing his arms.
• 24:41
  Yeah, yeah, very. Terrifying.
• 24:43
  OK. That ever existed, All right.
• 24:47
  Is Season 7 the year of Pearl wheat eating breakfasts and
• 24:51
  lunches? Do you mean season 11?
• 24:53
  Quite. A lot, yes.
• 24:55
  He's at 11 because he does this in The Time Warrior.
• 24:58
  He does this in Death to the Daleks, and he does this here.
• 25:02
  Oh, I'd rather. There's a lot of.
• 25:03
  People sitting down for a meal in this season.
• 25:07
  I'd rather eat this mutton broth than that horrible mash and peas
• 25:10
  he has in Death to the Daleks. Doesn't look.
• 25:12
  Very vile, doesn't it? Yeah, and he was almost dinner
• 25:17
  in Monster of Peloton by Agador. Oh, yes.
• 25:23
  Oh, come on, what are these cocoons all about?
• 25:25
  They look terrible. It's just spider web.
• 25:32
  It's clearly not though, is it? Well, it's clearly not they
• 25:35
  haven't got like, you know, a billion spiders to make a load
• 25:41
  of weapon just. Yeah.
• 25:43
  Just so they can wrap the Slade and open it.
• 25:46
  Well, how nice that they gave them all a cushion as well.
• 25:48
  Well, it's. Lovely, isn't it?
• 25:50
  So they can have a good snooze, You know, we've got one of those
• 25:54
  scenes where they're sort of cutting between two different
• 25:58
  sets of characters having the same conversation, which is
• 26:00
  always quite a nice way of doing it.
• 26:03
  Yeah. But I do feel like we've seen
• 26:08
  this quite a lot in the Pearl we era.
• 26:11
  This is a very Pearl we. The best.
• 26:13
  Of the best ever. Do you remember the one in the
• 26:15
  green death where he's saying more coil, lot more oil, more
• 26:19
  pollution and it comes back between?
• 26:22
  No waste, no pollution. That's it.
• 26:24
  That's the one, Yeah. It's really Joe and Cliff and
• 26:27
  the Brig and. Jerome Willis, whoever is,
• 26:30
  whatever his name is Stevens. Stevens, Steven.
• 26:33
  No, you're. Not and those same authors doing
• 26:36
  the same thing, Yeah. But it is more dynamic than just
• 26:39
  hearing, forgive me. Frames, yeah.
• 26:41
  Exposition, but just in one scene.
• 26:44
  Well, exactly. It makes it keeps it fresh,
• 26:46
  doesn't it? Yeah.
• 26:50
  All those, that is. Captain Yates now Well, let's.
• 26:53
  Not think about this fucking red trousers.
• 26:57
  Do you know they gave that poor man the line and he's got a sort
• 27:00
  of a COD West Country action and he goes they got cleverer and
• 27:04
  cleverer and larger and larger it's.
• 27:09
  Just really because. It's so cold, doesn't it?
• 27:12
  I I feel sorry for these acts, so I was listening to Toby
• 27:15
  Haydock's Happy Times and Places on the last three episodes and
• 27:19
  he says on paper this is a a exceptional cast for the
• 27:23
  metabellious people, absolutely. Really great actors and they're
• 27:26
  being forced that. This.
• 27:28
  Terrible dialogue, but they've got to say.
• 27:33
  Yeah, it doesn't quite come off, does it?
• 27:36
  It's. It's nothing wrong with it
• 27:40
  today. You know what's what?
• 27:42
  Why? Why would you say such a thing?
• 27:46
  OK, well, let's keep an eye out for the dialogue and see how
• 27:48
  strong it is. How do I just well?
• 27:51
  She goes. YouTube rolling like men out in
• 27:56
  the field while your mother is lying in there, quaking in fear.
• 28:02
  That. But that's how people talk on
• 28:04
  metabolis. Oh, fair enough.
• 28:07
  I didn't know that. I've never been.
• 28:10
  We are going to my child. I think this is what people that
• 28:17
  don't watch Doctor Who fear that Doctor.
• 28:20
  Who sounds like all the time. And it doesn't really.
• 28:24
  Yeah, well, yeah. There's corridors there's less
• 28:28
  than successful acting. There's less than successful
• 28:31
  special effects. This probably is exactly what
• 28:33
  people think. This is what this is what I've
• 28:38
  always feared, said Helen. Blanche.
• 28:44
  You know, there's a really dangerous line here in a minute.
• 28:46
  It's a sort of line you should never put in a script.
• 28:48
  Do you know what it is? Which one?
• 28:51
  This is getting monotonous. Never put that in a script.
• 28:58
  It's like when they go, there is no plot.
• 29:01
  And things like we must act. We must act.
• 29:05
  Yeah, that's another good one. Oh dear.
• 29:10
  So what happens with? I always forget what happens
• 29:12
  with Lupton. He had such.
• 29:14
  A dominant role in the first half?
• 29:16
  He kind of gets stuck in the corner for for the rest of the
• 29:21
  rest of the story, doesn't he? He's he's had his little seat on
• 29:25
  the on the throne, but now he just gets to kind of stand,
• 29:28
  stand in the corner next to the wall and think about what he's
• 29:31
  done. Is he killed?
• 29:32
  I honestly can't remember. Yeah, he does get killed, but
• 29:34
  by? The spiders.
• 29:36
  Spoilers, Spoilers for. Sorry, everybody.
• 29:40
  Oh, come on, come on. And there is no one who is
• 29:44
  listening to this who has never seen Planet of the.
• 29:46
  No, but he couldn't remember. You've just spoiled it for him.
• 29:49
  That's what he's called. Sorry, you should have just said
• 29:52
  I'm not telling you, Yeah. What do you think about this?
• 29:55
  Cliffhanger there where he walks in and.
• 29:57
  She goes, Oh, Doctor, I've been saying, Oh no.
• 30:00
  Doctor Well, all the cliffhangers are wrong in this
• 30:04
  because of the because of the pardon because of the pardon
• 30:06
  issues they have. There's like well we're under
• 30:08
  one and so we need to kind of move were cliffhanger a little
• 30:15
  bit further down the line or there, but then we need to had
• 30:18
  it a little bit more. We need to bring it back.
• 30:20
  So all the cliffhangers are all pretty much out of place, but.
• 30:24
  What happened to to make that like?
• 30:26
  I know 5 into 6 is especially bad, isn't?
• 30:29
  It yeah, that's yeah. Oh yeah, that.
• 30:33
  That's an absolute mess. Because it's very strange to
• 30:37
  have the the very last cliffhanger of the era, and it
• 30:41
  doesn't feature the Doctor. No.
• 30:43
  Well, exactly. That's a very strange choice to
• 30:45
  have made. I'm trying to think which way
• 30:47
  around it was. I don't know if three was under
• 30:49
  running, so they had the borrowed material from 4:00.
• 30:52
  But because the borrowed material from 4:00, that meant
• 30:54
  four was under running, so they had to borrow material from.
• 30:56
  Five. So it's like a domino.
• 30:57
  Effect yeah it's like a real knock on effect.
• 30:59
  So you think the the so the cliffhanger for three is the the
• 31:08
  Doctor. It should be something like the
• 31:11
  Doctor arriving on Metabolis and stepping out the TARDIS and
• 31:16
  trained and the the Queen that I think that was supposed to be
• 31:18
  the cliffhanger, but then they've had the had the whole
• 31:21
  fight on and. Then did that domino effect
• 31:24
  last. I think they finally caught up
• 31:26
  around the Rebus operation. Now it.
• 31:28
  Was just this story. It was just this story.
• 31:31
  I feel as if I was quite mean. About that episode.
• 31:33
  So do you guys want to say something positive about it
• 31:35
  before we out into 50 it? Was all right.
• 31:38
  Yes, it's it's, it's, it's we've got the metabolists, we've got,
• 31:45
  you know, we've changed the scenery, so we went from an
• 31:50
  Earthbound story. So we now want the alien planet.
• 31:52
  So it's it's kind of kicking up. Again, a little respect, but you
• 31:56
  know, there is still plates spinning, but there's plates
• 31:58
  spinning throughout, but there's all stories.
• 32:01
  Is it a? Superior location to where we
• 32:04
  were. Are we heading in the right
• 32:07
  direction? We're heading in the right
• 32:09
  direction because we couldn't just stay in that monastery
• 32:12
  lamastery. No, I think we do need, yeah, it
• 32:16
  did need to be broken up, but it's yeah, I think the bad CSO
• 32:24
  of metabolis free kind of down. Yeah, I mean, would we be saying
• 32:34
  that we'll be saying, you know, it shouldn't have went to
• 32:36
  Metabolis if that maybe he's done some outdoor location for
• 32:40
  shooting. Yeah, maybe.
• 32:42
  Yeah, but they did. They wasted all that in episode
• 32:44
  2. They did all of that in episode
• 32:46
  2, didn't. They so, yeah, for the phone
• 32:48
  like some sort of like like little farm hood or something
• 32:51
  that could have went and filmed all those scenes and which they
• 32:54
  couldn't because they've got spiders in and everything.
• 32:56
  But, you know, if there was, if it wasn't so obviously Studio
• 33:00
  bowed for the exteriors, would then be saying, Oh, well,
• 33:02
  actually, yeah, this is a much better story because.
• 33:07
  We'd still have the problem of the the creaking dialogue and
• 33:10
  the creaking accent, so you know.
• 33:14
  What I think is it though, if the plot doesn't change, you
• 33:16
  know does does change in that location have that much of an
• 33:19
  effect? I don't know.
• 33:22
  And I don't know how the kids would have responded to these
• 33:26
  visuals at the time, whether they'd just be impressed by it
• 33:28
  or whether, as Stephen Moffitts has said on many occasions,
• 33:32
  yeah, we knew it looked shit, but we we just loved it.
• 33:36
  I'm OK. This is on that making of and
• 33:37
  he. He loved it, didn't he?
• 33:39
  Yeah he was he, I think he was a kid when he when it was out and
• 33:43
  he watched it and didn't have an issue, obviously it was his dad
• 33:46
  that was sitting there going oh because a bit rubbish, doesn't
• 33:48
  it, That doesn't really look realistic.
• 33:50
  So I don't think the kids had an issue it was obviously the but
• 33:53
  even you know back then you know in the days of much smaller
• 33:58
  cathode rays and. Yeah, the picture was smaller,
• 34:01
  so it would have looked a bit and the reception probably would
• 34:05
  would have helped a bit because the pitch would generally have
• 34:07
  been fuzzy anyway. Are you suggesting that in order
• 34:11
  to make the production value of the planet the spiders work, you
• 34:14
  have to have a snowstorm and a screen the size of a postage
• 34:17
  stamp? No, no, no, no, no.
• 34:19
  But you know, Steven Moffat's quote is a very Steven Moffat
• 34:25
  quote, because he always wants to come off as.
• 34:27
  Quiet, hating people. Yeah and quite.
• 34:30
  Oh yeah. I always knew this was this was
• 34:32
  a bit shonky and but it's not like he could ever pretend that
• 34:36
  he he absolutely loved this. He was always that slight
• 34:39
  remove. So of course that's what he's
• 34:42
  going to say and I think Mark Gates is probably actually more
• 34:45
  on the ball because if you're if you're engrossed in the story,
• 34:48
  you don't notice the things that haven't quite worked.
• 34:53
  Well, Gates says, doesn't he? That he was absolutely engrossed
• 34:56
  with the Tommy storyline. You know, Yates coming back into
• 34:59
  it and the fact that the Doctor appeared to have died there.
• 35:04
  This is it. And he saw people like those
• 35:06
  people in the Llama St. he said. They were the people who went to
• 35:11
  his local library and things like that.
• 35:12
  They were the everyday people that you saw who were a bit sort
• 35:16
  of down on their luck. You recognize the terrible
• 35:19
  haircuts of the 1970s? Yeah.
• 35:23
  But you know, I do think, I do think something happens in five
• 35:26
  and it's all the scenes around the Doctor meeting his old
• 35:32
  mentor from Gallifrey and suddenly I said this side when
• 35:37
  we did strictly come hamster in doomsday.
• 35:40
  Suddenly, there's a feeling that something isn't quite right.
• 35:44
  Yes, feels like something is. Something's bigger.
• 35:47
  Something uneasy about it and it feels like it's heading towards
• 35:51
  something big. Which it is, yes.
• 35:56
  Could we head towards something big then?
• 35:58
  Razor. I thought you'd never ask.
• 36:01
  Stop it. I'll cut it there.