Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Hiker-Mom Rachel Morin: MYSTERY PERP CAUGHT ON RING CAM 2000 MILES AWAY

Transcript

Hiker-Mom Rachel Morin: MYSTERY PERP CAUGHT ON RING CAM 2000 MILES AWAY · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: The community is stunned after they learn that hiker Mom
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: out on a very well known trail, the Maw and
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Paw Trail, ends up brutally murdered and I think sex
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: attacked as well. But in the last days, a major
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: break in the case in the search for the killer
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: of a mother of five, so called hiker Mom, Rachel Mourn.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: being with us here at Foxination and series XM one eleven.
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: We have a very.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: Good idea who is the purp? First of all, take
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: a listen to our friend, Colonel William Davis.
• 0:58
  Speaker 4: DNA evidence is part of newly every modern day investigation
• 1:02
  Speaker 4: and in Rachel's case, DNA evidence was collected by our
• 1:05
  Speaker 4: Forensic Services Union. That DNA was analyzed by the Maryland
• 1:09
  Speaker 4: State Police and it was ran through the National Code Assystem.
• 1:14
  Speaker 5: DNA evidence is I mean this DNA.
• 1:16
  Speaker 4: Evidence has come back as a match tied to a
• 1:19
  Speaker 4: home invasion and insult and an assault of a young
• 1:22
  Speaker 4: girl in Los Angeles this past March. Unfortunately, that suspect
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: has not been positive identified, but he did leave.
• 1:31
  Speaker 5: Behind his DNA Based on the DNA evidence.
• 1:35
  Speaker 4: We considered the individual in the video we obtained from
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: the Los Angeles Police Department and.
• 1:40
  Speaker 5: That we are about to show you on our TV.
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: Screens to be a person that murdered Rachel Mooren on
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: August fifth DNA.
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: Isn't it amazing?
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: We actually have someone's genetic identification deyak survivy Nclake acid.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: It's a genetic fingerprint, But we don't have the herb.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: We don't know his name. We know everything about him
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: because of his DNA, but we don't have him. And
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: why do we think he is Rachel's killer? What more
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: do we know?
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: Listen?
• 2:13
  Speaker 5: Based and our analysis of this video at Weakness.
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: Observations, we believe the suspect to be approximately five foot nine,
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: one hundred and sixty pounds and of Hispanic descent. If
• 2:24
  Speaker 4: you have any information about his suspect, we are asking
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: you to preese call our detectives at our tip line
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: and if my number is four to one zero eight
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: three six seven, seven eighty eight. And we've also established
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: a dedicated tip email address and that email address is
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: r M.
• 2:42
  Speaker 5: Tips at Harperdshriff dot org.
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: Again, that's RM as a Razor moren Tips at Harperdshriff
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: dot Org.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: It's killing me to know that we know so much
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: about the man believed to have murdered this beautiful young
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: mom of four, but he's connected to a home invasion
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: assault in LA over two thousand miles away. A joining
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: me an all star panel to make sense of what
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: we know right now. But first take a listen to
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: our cut seventy six from the Harvard Sheriff's Office.
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: We collected DNA from our crime scene. The Maryland State
• 3:26
  Speaker 4: Police analyzed that crime that DNA for US, ran it
• 3:29
  Speaker 4: through the National Code System and that came back as
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: a match through through the crime that occurred in Los
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: Angeles where they had recovered DNA from this person that
• 3:38
  Speaker 4: you saw in the video, the video.
• 3:40
  Speaker 5: That we watched.
• 3:40
  Speaker 6: Let it tell us about I mean what Los Angeles
• 3:43
  Speaker 6: police released the chievele.
• 3:44
  Speaker 5: What is it is that's home? Is it at a
• 3:46
  Speaker 5: scene of a crime? Is at a home?
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: And that is a suspect leaving the home the scene
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: of the crime there and that was a home invasion
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: and assault, he said, correct of.
• 3:54
  Speaker 5: A little girl? Is that just a young girl that's
• 3:56
  Speaker 5: only going to leave it? A had a younger. I
• 3:57
  Speaker 5: don't want to talk about the family there, but it
• 4:00
  Speaker 5: was a young girl in the house at kind of soul.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: We know so much. He's within our grasp, but we
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: don't have a name. And also interesting, we don't have
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: a face. Again, I'm Nancy Grace and this is his
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: crime stories. Thanks for being with us, joining us right now.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: Sheriff Jeffrey Gaelor, Sheriff of the Harford County Sheriff's Office,
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: and you can find him at Hartfordshriff dot org. Sheriff,
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: thank you so much for being with us. I'm going
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: to get to the who, what, where, wife? When? But
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: does it just drive you crazy? You know so much
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: about this guy. You know his origin, you know his height,
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: you know all about him is very d and a.
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: But you don't know who he is.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: You can't put out an APB on you know, Charles Madson,
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: you can't do it.
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: You don't have a name. Is that driving you crazy?
• 4:55
  Speaker 6: Sure?
• 4:55
  Speaker 7: Nancy, thanks for having me on, and you know it's
• 4:59
  Speaker 7: what our detectives working so hard on. Is what's driving
• 5:02
  Speaker 7: our community crazy. It is frustrating. But the reason we
• 5:08
  Speaker 7: appreciate the opportunity to be on any media is because
• 5:10
  Speaker 7: someone out there does know that person's name. Someone's gonna
• 5:13
  Speaker 7: look at that video. Someone's going to look at the
• 5:15
  Speaker 7: still shots from the video. And I'm as frustrated as
• 5:18
  Speaker 7: everybody else. I read the comments on social media. Where's
• 5:21
  Speaker 7: the other side of his face? If we had it,
• 5:23
  Speaker 7: we would put it out there. We just haven't obtained
• 5:26
  Speaker 7: it yet. Hopefully there's some medicinal video footage that will.
• 5:29
  Speaker 5: Come our way.
• 5:30
  Speaker 7: But off of what's there, off of his build, off
• 5:32
  Speaker 7: of his walk, off of his appearance, there's someone out
• 5:36
  Speaker 7: there in the world who knows exactly who that person is,
• 5:39
  Speaker 7: and we need that person to tell us so that
• 5:41
  Speaker 7: we can get a match on the DNA and put
• 5:43
  Speaker 7: this monster behind bars.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: This is reminiscent of a case now famous or should
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: I say infamous, The disappearance of Jennifer CHESSI a beautiful
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: young girl. When her parents got to her condo when
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: she didn't show up for work, they see that she's
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: just gotten out of the shower. It's still damp, the
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: towels are damp, her clothes for the day are laid out.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: She liked to lay her clothes out on the bed
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: before she went to work. But no Jennifer, an exhaustive
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: search has ensued since Jennifer went missing, and a video emerges. Yes,
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: a video of an unknown mail walking directly along in
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: front of her condo, but no face. Take a listen
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: to our cuar friends from CBS.
• 6:29
  Speaker 8: The person could not be identified because the surveillance video
• 6:32
  Speaker 8: captured a photo every three seconds, and each time the
• 6:37
  Speaker 8: figure's face was obstructed by a fence post. In twenty seventeen,
• 6:42
  Speaker 8: the Kessies recruited private investigator Michael Terretta to help them
• 6:46
  Speaker 8: conduct their own investigation. Tretta learned from speaking with people
• 6:51
  Speaker 8: who lived in Jennifer's complex that construction workers were living
• 6:55
  Speaker 8: in an empty apartment just across from Jennifer.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: All this that's even a video, but just at the
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: right moment the camera panned and didn't get the face.
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: Joining me.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: In addition to special guest Sheriff Jeffrey Gailor, Vincent Hill,
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: investigative reporter of Fox forty five of Baltimore, Interesting, former
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: police officer MPI, author of Playbook to a Murder, tell
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: me all about everything you know about getting the DNA
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: and about this video that has emerged out of.
• 7:29
  Speaker 6: LA Well, Nancy, first, I can say when we were
• 7:32
  Speaker 6: watching the pressure in the newsroom. It was a WTS moment,
• 7:37
  Speaker 6: if you will. A guy from La or wherever he's from.
• 7:42
  Speaker 6: His DNA sign found at Rachel's crime scene. Total shock,
• 7:46
  Speaker 6: and of course our viewers want to know, well, why
• 7:49
  Speaker 6: do we not know this guy's name because we have
• 7:51
  Speaker 6: this DNA. But a lot of people don't understand. If
• 7:54
  Speaker 6: he's never been arrested before, you're not going to have
• 7:57
  Speaker 6: his name even though it's DNA. Maybe in Cotis he
• 8:00
  Speaker 6: may be walking out doing other crimes and no one
• 8:03
  Speaker 6: knows who he is.
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: Vincent, hold on, hold on, I got to follow up
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: on what you're saying. Don't lose your thought.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: Sheriff Gailor please jump in whenever you have a thought
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: with me. Jessica Garth, chief of the Special Victims Family
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: Violence Unit, Prince George County, veteran trial lawyer. Jessica, you
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: hear people, and I'm afraid that includes jurrrs. They'd say, well,
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: you got a fingerprint, can't you match it up. You
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: can get a perfectly beautiful, perfect pristine latent print, in
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: other words, the one found at the scene to Layton print.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: But unless you have something to compare it too, you
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: can't get a name. Here's a good example, like DNA
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: and coburger. There's three unknown male DNA profiles found in
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: and around the home where the four students were slain.
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: But they've tried and tried. You got to have something
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: to match it too in order to present that to
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: a jury.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: If the purp has never been arrested, it's not in
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: the system, has had to give a fingerprint for any reason,
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: there's nothing to compare it to. So, yes, we've got
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: this guy's DNA that we think murdered Rachel Mourn, leaving
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: our five children without a mother. They've been split up
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: and gone to different homes, but we can't get the
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: guy explained.
• 9:19
  Speaker 9: Yeah, that's exactly right. So you know, we kind of
• 9:21
  Speaker 9: refer to it as the CSI effect when we're trying
• 9:24
  Speaker 9: cases that jurors expect that we're going to have, you know,
• 9:26
  Speaker 9: all kinds of DNA evidence, fingerprint evidence, and that there
• 9:29
  Speaker 9: will be an immediate match. It's going to pop up
• 9:31
  Speaker 9: on the screen and it's going to tell us, you know,
• 9:33
  Speaker 9: who committed the crime. But you're exactly right, you know,
• 9:36
  Speaker 9: you have to have a suspect to compare it to.
• 9:39
  Speaker 9: So what our DNA analysts do is they develop what's
• 9:42
  Speaker 9: called a profile. And I'll leave it to the doctors
• 9:44
  Speaker 9: to explain that a little bit more. But they we
• 9:46
  Speaker 9: take that profile and we compare it to the known
• 9:49
  Speaker 9: profile of a suspect, and when those two profiles match,
• 9:53
  Speaker 9: you know, our experts give us a statistic, a degree
• 9:56
  Speaker 9: of certainty that it is the same person who left
• 9:58
  Speaker 9: the DNA, and lawyers, it's hard job to explain to
• 10:01
  Speaker 9: the jury that, you know, the statistic means that this
• 10:04
  Speaker 9: is the person who left the DNA on the scene.
• 10:06
  Speaker 9: But if you don't have that person to compare it to,
• 10:08
  Speaker 9: then you just you know, your investigators are just trying
• 10:11
  Speaker 9: to track down who they can draw that profile from.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: Back to you, Vincent Hill, forty five, Baltimore, Go ahead, Yeah.
• 10:30
  Speaker 6: I mean a lot of viewers are trying to track
• 10:32
  Speaker 6: down why do we not know this guy's name. I mean,
• 10:35
  Speaker 6: I've seen the comments all over Facebook or social media.
• 10:39
  Speaker 6: And again, if he hasn't been arrested, It's like I
• 10:42
  Speaker 6: told my newsroom, if he hasn't been arrested, this guy
• 10:46
  Speaker 6: is free to walk around until he does something even
• 10:48
  Speaker 6: more drastic, more horristic and he's actually caught. But to
• 10:53
  Speaker 6: go back to something else, we only have a side
• 10:57
  Speaker 6: profile in the back of his head. I tell you
• 11:00
  Speaker 6: for a fact that my mother, even at fifty years old,
• 11:03
  Speaker 6: could spot my head from a crowd. So someone knows
• 11:07
  Speaker 6: who this guy is just by that big picture of
• 11:10
  Speaker 6: him walking out of this house in Los Angeles and.
• 11:13
  Speaker 7: Nancy Jeff I agree with Vincent one hundred percent. That's
• 11:16
  Speaker 7: what I said. And I think it's going to be,
• 11:19
  Speaker 7: you know, opportunities like this to reach a large audience,
• 11:22
  Speaker 7: to have people go to our social media page and
• 11:25
  Speaker 7: look at this. I said in a few hours after
• 11:27
  Speaker 7: we didn't have somebody in custody very quick, that this
• 11:31
  Speaker 7: is going to be solved through science and technology. And
• 11:35
  Speaker 7: the science part has narrowed us down to this individual.
• 11:39
  Speaker 7: And I wish the technology had given us a better picture.
• 11:42
  Speaker 7: We're still out there scouring and hopefully we can come
• 11:44
  Speaker 7: up with one, but this is what we have for now.
• 11:46
  Speaker 7: But I agree with Vincent one hundred percent. Somebody knows.
• 11:49
  Speaker 7: Somebody looks at that picture and they know exactly who
• 11:51
  Speaker 7: this person is.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: Hey, guys, you know doctor Bethony Marshall. Of course I
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: agree with Sheriff Gailler. That pretty much goes, you know, unsane,
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: and we know I'm going to.
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: Agree with him. Visit Hill. I agree with you partially.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: Yes, your mother may be able to pick your head
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: out of a crowd. I could pick out my children,
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: I could pick out my husband. But what mom is
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: going to turn in their child? And what mom who
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: is gonna id some guy's head? Well, you know what,
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: let me throw this to a shrink, all right. Doctor
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: Bethany Marshall is joining us so I Psychoanalyst out of
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: Beverly Hills at Dodtor Bethany Marshall dot com. Doctor Bethany
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: bottom line, if you can identify somebody's head, you're not
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: turning them in. You know why, because you're close to them.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: It's got to be a mother or a sister. Not
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: gonna turn them in unless they've got some very unless
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: they're like a conehead. That was a very odd shaped
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: head that coworkers can identify.
• 12:48
  Speaker 10: It's so true, Nantha, you know this family. Well, First
• 12:51
  Speaker 10: of all, this perp probably went straight to mommy's house
• 12:54
  Speaker 10: after the commission of the crime, because that's what they
• 12:56
  Speaker 10: always do.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: I don't know about that, because this is in. Typically, yes,
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: they go run to mommy's isn't that true? Sheriff Jeffrey
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: Gaelor when a guy bs bond, forfeits or does show
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: up to court, I always say, go to mommy's house
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: and look under the bed and look in her closet.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: She took him in, that's where he is. They always
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: go to the auntie, the grandma, the mommy. That's typically true.
• 13:23
  Speaker 7: No, I would just agree with you, you know, being
• 13:25
  Speaker 7: a mom or be a family. You know, people when
• 13:28
  Speaker 7: they're they're in trouble, Yeah, that's that's where they turn
• 13:30
  Speaker 7: to and that's who they trust will hide. But this person,
• 13:34
  Speaker 7: this person should not be hidden. This person is a
• 13:36
  Speaker 7: threat to every single person on the planet until we
• 13:39
  Speaker 7: figure out where they are. I'll say on the planet,
• 13:41
  Speaker 7: because wherever he is, whether he's still here in our
• 13:44
  Speaker 7: community or he's moved to you know, next surrounding statu
• 13:47
  Speaker 7: he's came back to LA, he poses a threat anybody
• 13:51
  Speaker 7: that would commit these kind of crimes in both the
• 13:53
  Speaker 7: LA and our homicide here. He poses a threat to
• 13:57
  Speaker 7: anyone who's around, family member or not, and he needs
• 13:59
  Speaker 7: to be taken off the street.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: You know what you left out a big swath of
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: area between LA and bel Air, Maryland, not bel Air, California,
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: all in between. How the hey does he get That's
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: what we counted up, Jackie. What was it? Twenty six
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: one hundred miles twenty six sixty nine miles from Maryland
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: to LA.
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: How the hey did he get that far?
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: And I'm looking at his picture, Guys, I assume everybody
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: has looked at the stills or the video. Let's talk
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: about what we see in this picture.
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: Number one? Do you see the hairstyle?
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: I guarantee you he's either got still that hairstyle or
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: something similar where part of his head is shaved from
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: like the neck up and then he's got like a
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: fake mullet.
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: Going down the back.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: There's going to be some type of a unique hairstyle,
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: mark my words. Okay, he looks to me between I'm
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: gonna go with nineteen to twenty nine.
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: Do you agree with that or disagree?
• 15:02
  Speaker 7: Hereff Gaylor, Yeah, we put it at twenty to thirty,
• 15:04
  Speaker 7: so right in that same ballpark. But you're the haircuts
• 15:08
  Speaker 7: very distinctive. It's been it's been the number one source
• 15:11
  Speaker 7: of the tips that we've received. And I would ask
• 15:14
  Speaker 7: you know anybody hearing this and if they have a tip.
• 15:16
  Speaker 7: You said the numbers earlier, but we have a special
• 15:19
  Speaker 7: email box RM Tips Rachel Morin Tips RM tips at
• 15:23
  Speaker 7: Harpershriff dot org. Did let us know, But that hairstyle
• 15:27
  Speaker 7: is certainly distinct. And I think if you look at
• 15:30
  Speaker 7: his walk, you know how he carries himself. You know,
• 15:34
  Speaker 7: he's a muscular young man and five nine hundred and
• 15:38
  Speaker 7: sixty pounds. Again, somebody has seen him, somebody has maybe
• 15:41
  Speaker 7: been at the gym with him or or working a
• 15:44
  Speaker 7: job with him. Somebody knows who he is on that picture.
• 15:47
  Speaker 10: And Nancy, not only that, but he's a menacing figure.
• 15:51
  Speaker 10: And even though the family may circle the wagons, just
• 15:54
  Speaker 10: like remember Brian Landry's family, they knew possibly that he
• 15:58
  Speaker 10: had murdered Gabby Patito, But did they turn him in?
• 16:01
  Speaker 10: Did they assist Gaby Potito's family? No, they circled the
• 16:04
  Speaker 10: right wagons and they protected their own son. But with
• 16:08
  Speaker 10: this purp because he's menacing, because he's a creeper, I'm
• 16:14
  Speaker 10: sure that there's women, he stated, people he went to
• 16:17
  Speaker 10: high school with, people he works with. Who knows that
• 16:20
  Speaker 10: there's something off or wrong about these guys. Right, even
• 16:24
  Speaker 10: like with Brian Coberger, all these people are coming forward
• 16:27
  Speaker 10: now saying that he was dominating other women, that he
• 16:32
  Speaker 10: was a scary figure, that he was a bully. So
• 16:35
  Speaker 10: there are plenty of people. I don't think we have
• 16:37
  Speaker 10: to rely on the family to come forward because there
• 16:39
  Speaker 10: are people in his circle who knows something's wrong with him.
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: Hey, guys, I want to find out Vincent Heel.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: Can you tell me what is he accused of doing
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: in LA specifically?
• 16:52
  Speaker 6: Well, Nancy and I may I get to share to
• 16:54
  Speaker 6: correct me on this, but I believe there was some
• 16:56
  Speaker 6: type of home invasion and assault of a young female
• 16:59
  Speaker 6: in side that home in Los Angeles back in March
• 17:03
  Speaker 6: of this year. But I refer to the shriff on that.
• 17:06
  Speaker 6: But I believe that's the information we received from the
• 17:09
  Speaker 6: Los Angeles Police Department.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: Let's take a look at the video. He's opening up
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: the door of the home of the victim. I think
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: that he raped.
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: He's leaving. He doesn't even have his shirt on.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: Man, could you at least get dressed before you leave.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: It's in a residential neighborhood, it's in the evening, don't
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: know what time. It's a female victim them is different
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: because here he's gone into the home and he has
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: I believe raped a female victim.
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: We're hearing assault, but we.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: Know that there's DNA and that makes me think that
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: it's sperm.
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: So was it a rape? Sheriff killer?
• 17:49
  Speaker 7: I'm not gonna because you know, there's still part of
• 17:53
  Speaker 7: the active investigation other than what we've released with your
• 17:55
  Speaker 7: spot on a home invasion with an assault we're not covering. Yeah, well,
• 18:01
  Speaker 7: I'm not at liberty to go into any other details,
• 18:04
  Speaker 7: but it certainly you know, his actions there are similar
• 18:10
  Speaker 7: to some of the mo that we have here. I'll
• 18:13
  Speaker 7: just leave it.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: At that exactly, okay, And I of course do not
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: want to in any way and pay the investigation or
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: harm the integrity of the investigation. So when you finally,
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: god willing, get to trial, you can be accused spouting
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: out information that's privy to the case.
• 18:30
  Speaker 7: We want to give our investigators every opportunity to, you know,
• 18:33
  Speaker 7: to keep it to what it needs to be kept
• 18:35
  Speaker 7: out of the public for right now, but while we
• 18:37
  Speaker 7: still share what we can to help us bring this
• 18:40
  Speaker 7: person in the custody. And again you touched on the
• 18:43
  Speaker 7: thing about traveling, we don't know whether he lives there
• 18:46
  Speaker 7: and was visiting out here, or whether he visits you know,
• 18:49
  Speaker 7: was visiting out there when he committed this crime, that
• 18:51
  Speaker 7: crime in March and lives out here, or any combination thereof.
• 18:54
  Speaker 7: He could live in Ohio and just have visited both
• 18:57
  Speaker 7: places to commit these acts. So until we know who
• 18:59
  Speaker 7: he is, we don't know what part of the country
• 19:03
  Speaker 7: he is hanging his hat.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: No, Sheriff, I don't think he visited one of the
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: two places just to commit the act. I think he's
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: a predator. He happened to be in LA for whatever reason.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: I don't think he went there just to assault. I'll
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: say assault because we don't know if it was a
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: rape or asadomy. We don't know if it was touched
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: DNA somewhere in the home. But we know there was
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: a home invasion and there was an assault on a
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: female victim in LA, and that there's DNA.
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: We know that in Bela or Maryland.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: It's a completely different scenario, different modus opread my method
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: of operation. He's out on a hiking trail, he sees
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: a lone female and I'm assuming the female in LA
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: was alone. Don't know her age, but he sees a
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: female alone and he pounces and he I believe raped
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: Rachel Morin and murdered her. I know you're I'm not
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: going to tell me whether she was raped or not.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: But we're getting DNA from somewhere. Plus we know that
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: she was naked and lying on her back, or so
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: we've been told.
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: So.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: Straight to doctor Monte Miller, Director Forensic DNA Experts LLC,
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: specialists in sex assaults and murder. Now this is where
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: he gets a lot of his training, former forensic scientists
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: for the Texas Department of Public Safety Crime Lab. Can
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: I tell you how many thousands of DNA comparisons you
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: do if you're.
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: At the crime lab.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: You can find them at FORENSICDNA Experts dot com. Doctor
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: Monty Miller, thank you for being with us. You're hearing
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: the facts as I am. Tell me what you think
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: happened in LA and what you think happened in Maryland.
• 20:43
  Speaker 11: Well, I think that First of all, I'd like to
• 20:46
  Speaker 11: commend the police departments, both of them, for doing the
• 20:48
  Speaker 11: DNA and getting it out quickly.
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: Amen, brother, you're so right about that. Go ahead.
• 20:53
  Speaker 11: Yeah, we have so many cases that sit there for
• 20:56
  Speaker 11: a while. And they're not able to identify the person
• 20:58
  Speaker 11: quickly when the second crime had happens because the first
• 21:01
  Speaker 11: lab hasn't finished. So yeah, I mean the crime.
• 21:04
  Speaker 10: Labs did a good job.
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: He just gave me a horrible feeling.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: You remember Eliza Fletcher, the Memphis mom that was out
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: jogging four am. I think she had two children at
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: home doing it all, and this PERV grabs her, I
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: believe rapes her, murders her, and he had actually committed
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: another rate. But the DNA could have been sitting on
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: a shelf for like a year, and if he had
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: been apprehended in that rate, Eliza Fletcher would be alive today.
• 21:30
  Speaker 11: Well yeah, and that's exactly what they did great in
• 21:33
  Speaker 11: this case. You know, they they did the DNA and
• 21:35
  Speaker 11: so somebody didn't go at least unnoticed for a second
• 21:41
  Speaker 11: crime across the country. So, but he has left his
• 21:44
  Speaker 11: DNA so that you know, there's a good indication that
• 21:47
  Speaker 11: there was some DNA that they knew came from him
• 21:49
  Speaker 11: inside that house, and that you know oftentimes comes from
• 21:52
  Speaker 11: a sexual assault because you know, they have DNA that
• 21:55
  Speaker 11: from sperm and they that way they know that it's
• 21:58
  Speaker 11: the perpetrator and not somebody else who visited that house.
• 22:03
  Speaker 11: So whatever it is, they're confident that they got his
• 22:07
  Speaker 11: DNA from that house. It doesn't look like he's leaving
• 22:11
  Speaker 11: in a hurry, or that he's bloody, or that he's injured,
• 22:13
  Speaker 11: so it could have been touched DNA, but you know,
• 22:16
  Speaker 11: there's a good chance that was a sexual assault. And
• 22:20
  Speaker 11: the same thing with you know, the murder victim Rachel Marin.
• 22:24
  Speaker 11: You know, they might have gotten DNA off of the
• 22:27
  Speaker 11: rock that was found that he used to hit her,
• 22:31
  Speaker 11: but that might have bled and other things on it.
• 22:33
  Speaker 11: So a sexual assault is oftentimes the best case to
• 22:37
  Speaker 11: get a really good DNA profile because you know it
• 22:41
  Speaker 11: came from the person who had sexual intercourse with the
• 22:43
  Speaker 11: other person. So you know, I think there's a good
• 22:47
  Speaker 11: chance they're both sexual assaults if one of them is.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: You're hearing the voice of dutch A Monte Miller, director
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: at Forensic DNA Experts dot com.
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: Who is that jumping in.
• 22:57
  Speaker 7: Me, Sheriff. I was just going to say, you know,
• 22:58
  Speaker 7: I hear you know a lot of speculation. Again, I
• 23:03
  Speaker 7: just wish I was in more of a position to
• 23:04
  Speaker 7: be able to speak freely, but I just you know,
• 23:07
  Speaker 7: I've heard how the scene looks and this and that.
• 23:09
  Speaker 7: I just want to be clear that we haven't released
• 23:11
  Speaker 7: any of those investigative details, and we know, we know
• 23:14
  Speaker 7: some of the information out there as accurate. We know
• 23:17
  Speaker 7: some of it is not accurate, and I wish I
• 23:19
  Speaker 7: could clarify which is which. But you're one hundred percent right,
• 23:23
  Speaker 7: I mean, but DNA can be left in many different ways,
• 23:28
  Speaker 7: and I am thankful that it was, you know, and right. Again,
• 23:32
  Speaker 7: I'd rather have this guy's name and face straight on,
• 23:35
  Speaker 7: But I'm thankful that LA detectives out there took that
• 23:38
  Speaker 7: case seriously. They did a good investigation, which you know,
• 23:42
  Speaker 7: included the collection of DNA at the scene and has
• 23:46
  Speaker 7: put Carting back a tie. You know, so much of
• 23:49
  Speaker 7: policing used to be cops, just cops and robbers. But
• 23:52
  Speaker 7: now without our civilian forensic experts and the people the
• 23:55
  Speaker 7: science part of this thing, we'd be nowhere in this investigation.
• 23:59
  Speaker 5: And that is it's important to note.
• 24:01
  Speaker 7: But again, I hate to be the guest who kind
• 24:04
  Speaker 7: of has the fashion in his head, but it's not
• 24:06
  Speaker 7: free to share him. But that's unfortunately where I find myself.
• 24:09
  Speaker 7: As I listened to the other callers, you know what's interesting.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: I'm taking from what you said. I'm interpreting that we
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: got one of those facts wrong. Maybe it's the rock.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: Maybe she wasn't naked, maybe she wasn't on her back,
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: maybe there wasn't a rape.
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: We got something wrong, but we got something right.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: But it's the share of Jeffrey Gailler refuses to play
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: twenty one questions with me. I'm going to go forward
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: with what I do know, and you know what this
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: is reminding me of Jackie.
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: Let's take a listen to our cut seventy seven.
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: I think now it kind of leads us down the
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: path that we believe this was a person that racial
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: probably didn't know, maybe you could say, potentially a random
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: act of violence. And we're hoping that the community now
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: can watch that video and we also got steel pictures
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: that we're going to be putting out and that somebody
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: can identify who.
• 24:56
  Speaker 5: We don't have any clue where he could be.
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: We don't even know if he's still in Harper County
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: in the state of Maryland, because obviously in March he was.
• 25:02
  Speaker 5: In California, and then here in August he was here
• 25:06
  Speaker 5: in Maryland. So we don't know if he's still here
• 25:07
  Speaker 5: or not.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: This is eerily reminiscent for various reasons of the Delphi murders.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: A little Libby and Abby and I'll tell you why.
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: I take a listen our cut nine aar friends at
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: People magazine.
• 25:22
  Speaker 12: Police have announced that a widely circulated photo of the
• 25:24
  Speaker 12: main suspect and a double homicide of two Indiana teenagers
• 25:28
  Speaker 12: was taken by one of the victims before she was killed.
• 25:32
  Speaker 12: On February fourteenth. The bodies of Liberty German and Abigail
• 25:35
  Speaker 12: Williams were found one day after they were reported missing.
• 25:38
  Speaker 12: At a press conference on Wednesday, police announced that Liberty
• 25:41
  Speaker 12: not only took the photo of the male suspect, but
• 25:43
  Speaker 12: she also recorded a video moments before her death that
• 25:46
  Speaker 12: includes audio of a man talking, although officials are unsure
• 25:49
  Speaker 12: whether the voice belongs to the suspect.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: You will recall with Abby and Libby, the two little
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: girls murdered off the trestle bridge in Delphi, that there
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: was wild speculation that there was a transient, someone that
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: had come from out of town. We argued against that
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: at the get go, because highly unlikely a transient would
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: have known about that trustle bridge kind of tucked away
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: out in the middle of nowhere.
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: It didn't make sense.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: Now we're trying to figure out does this guy caught
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: on Servilli's video on a ring camera, a doorbell cam
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: in La does he live in bel Air, Maryland?
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: Now? Is he a transient?
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: If he is a transient, how did he know about
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: this hiking trail?
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: Now?
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: Isn't it true, Sheriff Giller, that the hiking trail butts
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: up against apartments.
• 26:48
  Speaker 7: Yes, the Monpi Hiking Trail actually working on a new
• 26:52
  Speaker 7: section of it that's going to connect it and make
• 26:54
  Speaker 7: it around eight I think it's about eight miles long
• 26:56
  Speaker 7: total when it's finished. So there's a north section in
• 26:58
  Speaker 7: the south section. This happened in the south section, which
• 27:02
  Speaker 7: is closer to the town of bel Air, the county seat.
• 27:05
  Speaker 7: Very very very safe. In fact, I can't even remember
• 27:08
  Speaker 7: when the last homicide in the town of bel Air
• 27:11
  Speaker 7: was the uh but it runs right behind the mall area,
• 27:16
  Speaker 7: the big shopping area for the town. It runs from
• 27:20
  Speaker 7: where she had parked her car. Where Rachel had parked
• 27:22
  Speaker 7: her car is right behind one of the local breweries.
• 27:26
  Speaker 7: Always a lot of people there, a bunch of condos
• 27:29
  Speaker 7: and it goes down behind the mall and stuff and
• 27:31
  Speaker 7: then finishes that the big fields where we actually have
• 27:35
  Speaker 7: our County Fair every year. It's a very very popular,
• 27:38
  Speaker 7: well used, improved trail from an old railroad system, the
• 27:43
  Speaker 7: mom Pow railroad that just gets gets a lot of
• 27:47
  Speaker 7: a lot of activity. And to have something out there
• 27:49
  Speaker 7: happen is just, you know, to have any crime out
• 27:52
  Speaker 7: there happen, it's just so far outside the norm, much
• 27:55
  Speaker 7: less something so horrific as Rachel's homicide.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: Sure you gather ring video surveillance from the brewery and
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: anyone else in those apartments and homes that look onto
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: the trail or onto the trail head.
• 28:09
  Speaker 5: Yeah, we have collected.
• 28:10
  Speaker 7: Investigators have collected all the video. Unfortunately, there's not video
• 28:13
  Speaker 7: on the trail. It's actually the part of the trailer.
• 28:15
  Speaker 7: The trail is part of the Harper County Parks and
• 28:18
  Speaker 7: WRECTS system. They have announced the Parks and Wrecks have
• 28:21
  Speaker 7: announced that they're going to put cameras along the trail now,
• 28:24
  Speaker 7: which would be great, but unfortunately we didn't have them before.
• 28:28
  Speaker 7: But we've also done solicitations out in the public, social
• 28:32
  Speaker 7: media and through our robocall system asking people you know
• 28:36
  Speaker 7: for video footage around the time that Rachel went missing
• 28:39
  Speaker 7: and to where she was discovered. Because yeah, we're hopeful
• 28:43
  Speaker 7: as we pour through all this investigators pour through all
• 28:46
  Speaker 7: this video footage and stuff that we have been able
• 28:48
  Speaker 7: to gather, that we'll get a better picture of this individual,
• 28:52
  Speaker 7: of the suspect, and perhaps a vehicle or something like that.
• 28:56
  Speaker 7: But you know, we do not have that at this moment.
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: And of another case.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: So that I worked with the victims' families, the family
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: of Jennifer, you and beautiful mom, who would ride about
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: a fifty mile bike trail multiple times a week. She
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: was about thirty ish miles in on the Silver Comet
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: trail when she was attacked and murdered by Michael Ludford.
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: Michael Ludford.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: Surrounding the trail, there were a number of vantage points
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: where you could see onto this trail, including apartments, and
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: this guy Lesford had been scaring women and exposing himself
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: and staring at them, survealing them many times before Jennifer
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: was murdered. So let me go to you, doctor Bethy Marshall.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: I'm going to talk about why this trail. Was he
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: living in those apartments, was he living on the trail
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: as a transient in the woods, because.
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: I know for a fact that a group of.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: Law enforcement LA were out in the woods, you know,
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: many feet off the trail, huddled together looking at something.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: Did they find evidence someone had been living out there tinting?
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: You know Eric Rudolph who was the Olympic bomber in Atlanta.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: Then he bombed to abortion clinics and by the way
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: the shrapnel hit my investigator, it was time. So one
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: would go off and then the next one would go
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: off as soon as people came to investigate the first one.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: I don't know who this guy is. I don't know
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: why he's in bel Air, Maryland. Does he live there,
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: is he visiting? It's hard to believe he's he a
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: transient all the way from LA. But let's think about
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: them and another thing. Dr Bethany Marshall. I had a
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: gut feeling at the get go. I didn't go after
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: the boyfriend. There was just something about the fact that
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: he had her children. They were out looking for her,
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: he called nine one one. It just didn't feel right,
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: even though statistically it's the love object, but not in
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: this case.
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: So I'm glad we didn't put the nail in his coffin, right.
• 31:11
  Speaker 10: That's right, Nancy. There's something about the brutality of the
• 31:15
  Speaker 10: crime that tells me that sexual excitement and inflicting harm
• 31:21
  Speaker 10: were a part of them. And in terms of why
• 31:23
  Speaker 10: this trail whin you're an apartment building, why you're a
• 31:26
  Speaker 10: brewery and everything you're just describing. I have a theory
• 31:30
  Speaker 10: that he is a serial killer in the making, or
• 31:33
  Speaker 10: maybe he's already a serial killer, and there are multiple victims,
• 31:36
  Speaker 10: you know, in the pathway between the two crimes. But
• 31:39
  Speaker 10: if he's a serial killer in the making, his choice
• 31:43
  Speaker 10: of the mom pod trail is going to be influenced
• 31:48
  Speaker 10: by the victim profile, like who he's fishing for, who
• 31:52
  Speaker 10: is he on the hunt for? He's on the hunt
• 31:55
  Speaker 10: for young women. If the first victim was a very
• 31:58
  Speaker 10: young girl, you know, he could be a pedophile, that
• 32:02
  Speaker 10: that would be a part of his multiple perversions. And
• 32:06
  Speaker 10: also that the women who are vulnerable, women who are
• 32:10
  Speaker 10: on there are separated from family members or loved ones.
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: I think you said on their phone, did you say
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: on their phone.
• 32:18
  Speaker 10: On their own on their own own?
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: And I was saying that Rachel may have had earbudds
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: in I don't know that yet, but we believe that
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: may have happened.
• 32:28
  Speaker 10: Go ahead, Well, I'm suspecting victims, right, And also, this
• 32:32
  Speaker 10: guy is pretty brave. I mean, the fact that he
• 32:34
  Speaker 10: accosted a girl as a part of a home invasion
• 32:38
  Speaker 10: tells me that he's desperate. He's desperate to kill, He's
• 32:42
  Speaker 10: desperate to inflict cruelty while sexually accosting a victim. And
• 32:48
  Speaker 10: this desperation may have driven him to the mom Pod
• 32:52
  Speaker 10: trail where it's very secluded. There are places where he
• 32:56
  Speaker 10: could hide, and there are easy weapons. You know, he
• 33:00
  Speaker 10: bashed her face in with a rock, so he didn't
• 33:02
  Speaker 10: have to go and buy and done. He didn't have
• 33:05
  Speaker 10: to go get a knife, he didn't have to do
• 33:07
  Speaker 10: anything like that. He didn't have to put a big
• 33:09
  Speaker 10: effort into it. All he had to do was hide
• 33:12
  Speaker 10: along the trail and wait, wait for Rachel Moore and
• 33:14
  Speaker 10: to come by. So so that to me speaks of
• 33:17
  Speaker 10: a certain type of desperation.
• 33:20
  Speaker 5: Nancy, if I can, I did.
• 33:23
  Speaker 7: I did want to say that. You know, we again,
• 33:25
  Speaker 7: we haven't released anything other than saying it was a
• 33:28
  Speaker 7: violent attack. As far as the specifics of how Rachel's
• 33:32
  Speaker 7: life was taken, but you talked to. The trail is
• 33:35
  Speaker 7: very popular, goes by a lot of different condos, buildings,
• 33:39
  Speaker 7: a couple of houses, housing areas. I don't know. I've
• 33:41
  Speaker 7: said on some of the interviews I've done my backyard
• 33:44
  Speaker 7: actually hits a portion of the mom Pot Trail, so
• 33:46
  Speaker 7: we've always considered a very safe place. But again it
• 33:50
  Speaker 7: has very secluded areas along it, so you know it's
• 33:55
  Speaker 7: a place that they could hide. But this this individual,
• 33:58
  Speaker 7: I can tell you, although I want in the specifics
• 34:01
  Speaker 7: about how her life was taken, other than the general
• 34:04
  Speaker 7: saying it was very violent, this guy has an absolute
• 34:07
  Speaker 7: disregard for human life and I think he demonstrated that
• 34:10
  Speaker 7: in what I know of LA and obviously in the
• 34:13
  Speaker 7: homicide here. So yeah, talk about is he a serial
• 34:19
  Speaker 7: killer or is he becoming one? He certainly has no
• 34:22
  Speaker 7: care in the world for the value of a human life.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: Guys.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: Joining me right now is a very well known medical
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: examiner joining us out of the state of Florida, doctor
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: Tim Gallagher. I wanted him to hear the analysis before
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: he weighs in. Lecturer University of Florida Medical School, Forensic
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: medicine and the founder of the the International Forensic Medicine
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: Death Investigation Conference. He founded that a true expert in
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: his field, Doctor Gallagher, thank you for being with us,
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: Doctor Gallagher. The sheriff is neither confirming nor denying that
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: Rachel Morin was bludgeoned. We have also heard.
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: Reports, not from him, that she was naked.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: A naked lady lying out on a trail tells me
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: she was sex assaulted. I'm curious how often you see
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: bludgeoning cases. Now, I'm not saying that's her cod cause
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: of death, which I want to also ask you, even
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: if she was bludgeoned, would you still be able to
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: determine if she was, for instance, asphyxiated, just because she's
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: been hit in the head with the rock. If she was,
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: and that's based on alleged eyewitness accounts, But the bludgeoning,
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: the bludgeoning, I find that peculiar. And I wonder if
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: the female victim in La was beaten about the face.
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: We don't know that. They seem very much opportunistic.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: But what do you make of the bludgeoning and can
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: you get a different cause of death?
• 36:20
  Speaker 13: Doctor Gallagher, good points Nancy, typically the bludgeoning would be
• 36:25
  Speaker 13: if the offender needs the victim to become unresponsible very quickly.
• 36:32
  Speaker 13: You know, if a strangulation can take about three or
• 36:37
  Speaker 13: four minutes to complete, and to be on this popular
• 36:41
  Speaker 13: trail for three or four minutes strangling somebody, you know,
• 36:44
  Speaker 13: you would definitely get a lot of attention. But the bludgeoning,
• 36:49
  Speaker 13: and I'm going to assume here possible skull fractures or
• 36:54
  Speaker 13: an injury that would incapacitate the person instantaneously would be
• 36:59
  Speaker 13: more ad thanages you know, to his mo to sexually
• 37:03
  Speaker 13: offending on the victim, you know, and then leaving very
• 37:06
  Speaker 13: quickly before other people can come by and identify the scene.
• 37:10
  Speaker 13: So when we do the autopsy, these are things that
• 37:13
  Speaker 13: we look for. We look for the skull fractures, the
• 37:17
  Speaker 13: brain injuries, the internal bleeding that is representative of the
• 37:22
  Speaker 13: blunt force trauma. We also have to look at the
• 37:26
  Speaker 13: neck area, which is the most common area for strangulation,
• 37:29
  Speaker 13: and look at the muscles, look at the windpipe, look
• 37:32
  Speaker 13: at the blood vessels that are in there and see
• 37:34
  Speaker 13: if they have linear patterns of hemorrhage or linear patterns
• 37:39
  Speaker 13: of damage on them, which would be representative of a strangulation.
• 37:44
  Speaker 13: But we need to keep in mind that strangulation does
• 37:47
  Speaker 13: take three possibly four minutes to complete, and it certainly
• 37:50
  Speaker 13: would expose him for a long time on the trail.
• 37:53
  Speaker 13: So bludgeoning would render the person unconscious instantaneously and and
• 38:00
  Speaker 13: then the offender would be able to enact his mo Wow, well, Nancy,
• 38:05
  Speaker 13: that was a.
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: Lot of information. Is this Sheriff Gaylor?
• 38:09
  Speaker 5: No, this is Vnce, So go ahead.
• 38:11
  Speaker 6: As it Saturday, I had the opportunity to walk that trail.
• 38:13
  Speaker 6: They had a five k in honor of Rachel. I
• 38:15
  Speaker 6: actually walked with her sister, Rebecca. It was part of
• 38:19
  Speaker 6: my story for today. But as the ex cop and
• 38:22
  Speaker 6: private investigator, there were parts of the trail well where
• 38:25
  Speaker 6: I was literally thinking, wow, he could have lied and
• 38:29
  Speaker 6: wait right here, it's very secluded, could have done what
• 38:32
  Speaker 6: he had to do. He actually could have taken three
• 38:34
  Speaker 6: or four minutes to do whatever he had to do
• 38:36
  Speaker 6: with Rachel. Because there were parts of that trail, Nancy,
• 38:39
  Speaker 6: during that five k where I was just thinking, man,
• 38:42
  Speaker 6: he could have come from here. It backs up to
• 38:44
  Speaker 6: a road. At certain parts he could have parked the car.
• 38:47
  Speaker 6: It goes by a farmer's market. He could have parked
• 38:49
  Speaker 6: across the street. I mean, it's very secluded over in
• 38:52
  Speaker 6: that area, so there are plenty of opportunities for him
• 38:56
  Speaker 6: to have done something there. But I want to go
• 38:58
  Speaker 6: back to something you said earlier, Nancy, about Delphi and
• 39:02
  Speaker 6: the guy likely not knowing the trail. I'll be honest.
• 39:05
  Speaker 6: I've been living in the Baltimore area for almost a year.
• 39:08
  Speaker 6: I had never heard of the MA and Pa trail
• 39:11
  Speaker 6: until two weeks ago when Rachel went missing and her
• 39:13
  Speaker 6: body was found. So the investigator in me tells me
• 39:17
  Speaker 6: this guy knew about this trail. Because when I think
• 39:20
  Speaker 6: of Los Angeles and don't get offended by.
• 39:24
  Speaker 5: This sheriff dealer.
• 39:25
  Speaker 6: When I think of Los Angeles and I think of Maryland,
• 39:27
  Speaker 6: I don't think Hartford County. Most people think Baltimore, Annapolis, Aberdeen.
• 39:34
  Speaker 6: So that tells me this guy may have known the
• 39:36
  Speaker 6: area and known where that trail was.
• 39:39
  Speaker 7: I agree with one hundred percent of Vince. This is
• 39:40
  Speaker 7: not you know, we're a quiet new community about thirty
• 39:46
  Speaker 7: minutes north of Baltimore, and you know, not known for
• 39:51
  Speaker 7: known for low crime and the safe community. So it's
• 39:55
  Speaker 7: not generally where we have stuff like this, But not
• 39:57
  Speaker 7: generally if you're going around the country, you kind of
• 39:59
  Speaker 7: ha have to explain where it is in relation to
• 40:02
  Speaker 7: Baltimore because people just don't know where we're located.
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: You know, it's interesting, Sheriff and everybody jump in, Jessica Garth,
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: it's just right up your alley. In the LA case
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: where we get we believe the killer's DNA. I'm looking
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: in the video over and over and over. Somebody follows
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: him to the door and they shut the door behind him.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure who that is, but it looks like
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: a female hand shutting the door behind him. That victim lived,
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: This victim did not. I'm curious about the differences in
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: the attacks, the method of operation, Sheriff gillor what do
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: you make of it?
• 40:46
  Speaker 7: Again, that's something that a lot of people have brought
• 40:48
  Speaker 7: to our attention that we know is there. We know
• 40:51
  Speaker 7: that there's an arm there, that somebody closes the door
• 40:54
  Speaker 7: behind the suspect leaving, and again, it's not what you
• 40:59
  Speaker 7: would expect a seasoned police officer would expect someone leaving
• 41:03
  Speaker 7: the scene of a crime, you know, the home invasion
• 41:06
  Speaker 7: and an assault to be casually walking out with his
• 41:10
  Speaker 7: clothes tucked under his arm. You know, and the door
• 41:14
  Speaker 7: being shut behind him. But you know, our investigators continue
• 41:18
  Speaker 7: to work the case hard to try to make sense
• 41:21
  Speaker 7: of what doesn't make sense by appearances, and hopefully, you know,
• 41:25
  Speaker 7: the investigation will explain all of those things out in time.
• 41:31
  Speaker 7: But the main thing that's needed at this point is
• 41:33
  Speaker 7: figuring out who this guy is.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: Is that victim a minor? Was she a minor at
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: the time of the attack? Sheriff in La Yes, So
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: you know, think about that attacking a minor. I can
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: easily see a miner not really knowing what to do
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: after a rape or a sex assault or an ag
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: assault and walking it, walking to the door and shutting
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: it in complete. Astoun and can Usian what about it,
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: Jessica Garth. There's a big difference and a grown lady
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: like Rachel Moron who's thirty seven, and a girl, a
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: minor girl that's attacked.
• 42:08
  Speaker 9: One hundred percent degree. I mean, when I saw that
• 42:10
  Speaker 9: video and I saw that he had been essentially walked
• 42:13
  Speaker 9: out of the house of a few things occurred to me.
• 42:15
  Speaker 9: And of course it's it's speculation, but number one, if
• 42:18
  Speaker 9: this is a minor victim, which I am assuming since
• 42:20
  Speaker 9: her name hasn't been released then, and it was in
• 42:23
  Speaker 9: her own home. I mean, where's she going to run
• 42:25
  Speaker 9: to for safety. She's in the safest place that she knows.
• 42:28
  Speaker 9: So I think at some point it's just a matter
• 42:30
  Speaker 9: of staying alive in that situation. If this is a
• 42:33
  Speaker 9: grown man in her home, she's not going to fight back,
• 42:36
  Speaker 9: she's not going to create a fuss. She's going to
• 42:38
  Speaker 9: get out of the situation as safely as she can. So,
• 42:40
  Speaker 9: you know, if he is making moves to leave the home,
• 42:43
  Speaker 9: or if she said something like, oh, my parents are
• 42:45
  Speaker 9: going to come home, you have to get out of here,
• 42:47
  Speaker 9: and he's leaving, she's just going to let him leave,
• 42:49
  Speaker 9: and she's going to close that door, and I'm sure
• 42:50
  Speaker 9: a locket immediately behind him. And the second thing I
• 42:54
  Speaker 9: thought was that even if it were a grown woman,
• 42:57
  Speaker 9: you know, playing along or going along with somebody who's
• 43:00
  Speaker 9: assaulting you is one method to survive a violent attack
• 43:03
  Speaker 9: like this.
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: You're right, Rachel Moran may have fought back and this
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: young girl didn't or couldn't. Doctor Monte Miller joining us
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: for forensic DNA experts, what's your analysis of what we
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: know right now?
• 43:15
  Speaker 11: Well, I think that you know, we have the guys DNA,
• 43:19
  Speaker 11: and so we're going to be able to identify the
• 43:21
  Speaker 11: guy at some point, like like you know, other people
• 43:25
  Speaker 11: have mentioned, he's probably going to turn out to be
• 43:27
  Speaker 11: a serial killer or something similar or certainly has no
• 43:30
  Speaker 11: problem killing people and raping people and having, you know,
• 43:34
  Speaker 11: any kind of issues. So the guy's going to continue
• 43:37
  Speaker 11: to do these things. We're going to continue to find
• 43:39
  Speaker 11: his DNA until we find out who he is, until
• 43:44
  Speaker 11: we identify him and put him in jail.
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: I'm curious to find out if his DNA pops up
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: anywhere else in the country or just along this stretch.
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: Guys.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: A tip line is toll free eight eight eight five
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: four zero eight four seven seven repeat one eight eight
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: eight five four zero eight four seven seven. We want
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: justice not only for Mamma five Rachel Morin, but for
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: her children that have now been split up. Their family
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: has been broken apart forever.
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: Goodbye friend,