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Jonathan Brentner: Persevering As Foundations Are Being Destroyed · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

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  Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
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  defending biblical Christianity.
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  No topic off limits.
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  And now, here's your host, David Firazzo.
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  Hey, God bless you friends, family and Christ, thank you so much for tuning in.
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  We've got Jonathan Brentner with us today.
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  We love this brother in the Lord, his website, Jonathan Brentner.com.
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  His articles are great, we're going to definitely keep up with that and talk with about a couple
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  of them today.
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  You can get him on his website, Jonathan Brentner.com.
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  And also, Harbinger's Daily, one of our sponsors, they pick up his articles as well and you
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  can find them there.
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  They may change the title.
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  Content is the same very good content.
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  So friends, Jonathan, thank you so much for your time today.
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  Love speaking with you.
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  I love your heart for encouragement, encouraging the body of Christ and just appreciate your
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  voice.
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  Welcome.
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  Yeah, thank you so much for having me on the show, I love talking to you and these times
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  we have together.
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  Yeah, I praise God.
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  First of all, I want to give people a heads up to where we're going.
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  The two articles that we're going to touch on among other things here.
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  If you're on Harbinger's Daily, one of them is called the political and moral supports
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  of society are falling into ruins and that's it right there.
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  The other article we're going to jump to after that, very important, the idea of people
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  being unaware of what's going on.
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  It's called pastors don't let your churches remain unaware of what lies ahead.
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  That's it right there.
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  So Jonathan, before we do that, you will be speaking in Green Bay.
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  Next month at the Men of Iron Conference and friends, you're familiar with that.
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  Last year I was there and we've had David Roth on the podcast, Carl Kirby.
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  The website for that, if you're in the Green Bay area, is men of ironconference.org, men
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  of ironconference.org.
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  And the theme is perseverance and yeah, I love that Romans three, I'm Romans five versus
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  three and four talking about suffering, produces endurance, endurance produces character and
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  character produces hope.
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  Jonathan, you'll be speaking there on perseverance and you can give us just a little bit of a teaser
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  on what you'll be speaking to the men in Green Bay about.
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  Again, I'm going to be talking from Salah Lovin regarding what can the righteous do,
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  which also Harbinger's Daily, they did change the title of that to what can we do in
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  the foundations of society or crumbling or whatever, something like that, but it really
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  captures the essence of what I wrote and what I want to talk about there at the conference.
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  Well, I want to talk about a little bit more before we jump into the article because
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  a lot of believers are getting discouraged and maybe overwhelmed, I don't want to say
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  that's the majority by any stretch, but with all that's going on, Jonathan, we've talked
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  about this a lot of times, it's pretty dark out there and a lot of people are discouraged.
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  In fact, I think that's one of the reasons you and Terry James got together and put out
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  the recent book this year, hereafter, it's far better than you can imagine, the hereafter.
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  And so you want encouraged believers to just keep focusing on the Lord, it's a great
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  book.
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  I love the subtitle, it's far better than you can imagine because we have the pages
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  of Scripture, but yeah, it's hard to imagine all the majesty, the glory that is to come.
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  So before we jump into some of the nonsense that's going on and the politics maybe and
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  then what's happening in the church, talk a little bit about maybe the idea of what
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  the hope that we have to look forward to.
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  Yes, I don't believe I could cope with what I see going on in today's world.
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  Yeah, hard from the hope that we have with the Lord's eminent return and is coming for us.
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  This seems as though the world is falling apart and there are days when I can't even bear
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  to look at all what's going on with all the deception, the gaslighting, the lawlessness
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  and just how close we are to the crumbling of our country.
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  And I couldn't bear it without knowing that there's a brighter day ahead that Lord Jesus
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  is going to come for us someday.
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  I believe it's very, very soon, but we do not know the day or the hour, which means
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  that we can't put a limit on it.
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  But all the signs tell us that he is coming for us very soon, I believe.
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  And that's something that we have to be reminded of constantly with all that's going on
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  with all the things that are vying for our attention, the media, social media and the
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  liberal media and what's going on in our culture and government and politics and the
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  election coming up.
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  But let's talk.
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  Yeah.
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  Let's talk about a very important verse that you mentioned, Psalm 11 verse three.
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  If the foundations are destroyed, what can the righteous do?
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  Very important question, because we sense that the foundations, at least morally, culturally,
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  politically, the supports of society are falling into ruins as part of the title over at
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  Harbingers.
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  So Jonathan, talk to us a little bit about just the darkness in what people are supporting
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  at least politically.
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  And this is one of the foundations in America, at least, that we've seen crumble the morality
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  and the spirituality and who people are supporting at least on one side of the ticket.
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  Some might argue, no, Trump is evil too.
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  But let's just go through this step at a time.
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  Yeah.
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  I think the catalyst for that article was the selection of Camille Harris to be the presidential
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  nominee for the Dematres.
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  And then her selection of Tim Waltz is running me and I was just, that was horrified.
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  Yeah.
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  I knew that he was not a great governor or a great character, but to see the, just the
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  total, the total, I don't think corruption of his administration and how dark it was.
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  And just how he advocates abortion and infanticide and the transgenderism for all ages and
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  just made Minnesota a sanctuary state for that for those for transgender teens while teens
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  seeking transgender changes, it was just horrifying to me.
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  And I just couldn't believe it.
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  And I look at what Camille Harris stands for and it's just, it's also horrifying to need
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  to think that that this represents people who are running for the highest office of our
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  nation.
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  And will I admit that there are many things I would like to change about that old Trump.
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  It's so, you know, it's hard not to vote for him when you see just the anti-biblical and
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  world view of the other side.
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  Yeah.
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  Oh, you said it perfectly, the anti-biblical, anti-Christian, anti-Christ world view.
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  And I want to emphasize something, friends, ABC and the Democrat moderators protected Camille
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  Harris in that debate with President Donald Trump and, and she lied and got away with
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  it.
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  I want to mention, there used to be what's called the Born Alive Infant Protection Act.
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  And that what that would do would protect babies that survive botched abortions.
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  The abortion doesn't work in certain types of abortions where the baby is actually born.
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  Some like Tim Waltz, you say he supports a legalized form of infanticide, Camille Harris
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  Barack Obama famously said, no, the baby's got to be left to die on the table because that
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  was the will of the mother abortion.
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  So listen, friends, the baby is in these cases is born outside the birth canal.
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  It is a living human being.
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  And according to some of these Democrats, you cannot give aid, nurses or anybody in the
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  hospital, you just got to leave it to die.
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  This is what some of them support.
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  So Camille Harris was lying.
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  The ABC moderators did not pick up on that.
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  And one more thing, and I'll let you respond to Jonathan.
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  The governor, Waltz also made Minnesota a safe haven for transgender surgeries to be performed
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  on minors.
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  Yes.
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  So these are things that you need to know, friends, leading up to November, the election,
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  you need to know how to respond to people that say Trump was lying or that aren't from
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  there ignorant about this.
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  Go ahead, Jonathan.
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  Yes.
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  Exactly right.
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  The moderators protected Harris, even in Mr. Lies, and then it's so sad to think of the
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  guess like this goes on because she also wants to defund the police.
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  She also provided money.
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  She led the charge and raising money for the people who rioted and destroyed the city
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  of Minneapolis.
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  Felt arrested.
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  Yeah.
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  She, she allowed for their release from prison by raising money for their veils.
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  And so this is not a people we want in charge of our nation and I've long, I've long since
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  believed that those who cannot respect the lives of the unborn, do not belong in charge
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  of people because their view of life is not going to vote well for the rest of us, who
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  especially those of us who are older, it's not going to vote well for the living.
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  If for those who are born, I should say, if you can't protect the lives of those who
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  are not yet born.
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  So let's bring the spiritual perspective into this now.
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  The Bible talks a lot, even in Psalms and Proverbs, particularly about the wicked prospering
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  and how we are counseled to not be discouraged by that because their day is coming.
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  And I want to go to three of the points, the action steps to the points that you have
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  in your article.
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  Number one is resist the temptation to hide from reality.
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  Number two, run to the Lord and number three, trust the Lord to deal with the wicked.
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  Jonathan, that's where we're looking at these people.
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  I hate sin, I hate evil, I hate the darkness, what the devil is doing throughout our culture
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  throughout the world.
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  But the people can actually be saved.
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  Those who are doing evil.
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  There's still time, believe it or not, friends, even for someone like Kamala Harris, someone
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  might take offense to that.
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  So wait, she's a Christian.
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  You will know them by their fruit.
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  But anyway, they can be saved, but we are to hate the evil deeds that they do.
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  Do not participate, do not support the deeds of darkness, but expose them.
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  Jonathan, whatever, if you want to talk about maybe the third one, trust the Lord to
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  deal with the wicked, whatever you want to pick up, go ahead.
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  Thank you. Well, that last boy comes from from Psalm 37 as well as Psalm 11.
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  There's is David talks about the real time.
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  Justice that God does exert upon the the wicked, such as he did inside of the Gomorrah.
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  And Psalm 37 versus one to 20 of long been a refuge for me.
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  When I feel anger rising inside of me, what I see, I've often gone to Psalm 37 and
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  said, okay, Jonathan, you need to settle down.
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  You need to focus.
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  You need to remember that God is sovereign, then you need to go to him.
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  And I also like the idea where David tells us not to run while his counsel to himself
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  probably is not to flee.
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  You know, I don't, I forget where I read this, but I realize that many in our day,
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  especially those who can afford it are building cabins up in the mountains where they
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  can sort of go away, get off the grid and escape from life.
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  And you know, that sounds very appealing to me at times.
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  If I could afford it, I might be tempted, maybe even a couple weeks away in a mountain
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  cabing would be greater in Wisconsin, but, but such is that life.
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  And so I understand the reality to flee and, but I realize that also I have to trust God's
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  sovereignty.
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  You run to him and you trust that the Lord is going to deal in time.
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  And yes, he will deal with the wicked.
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  And if long as they don't, we can't in turn to him.
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  And I often think of Chuck Colson in his regard.
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  And I say that because Chuck Colson was someone who was involved in many of the evil and
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  wickedness of the Nick, it's Nick's in administration and he went to jail because of that.
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  And because he went to jail, he found the Lord as a savior and eventually came out of
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  prison to to form a great ministry to the to the prisons to those who remained in prison.
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  And many, many prisoners came to know Jesus as a result.
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  But my point is, I think that people seeing the result of their sins in real time can
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  be a catalyst for them to turn to the Lord.
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  And it's no favor to them that the love is protecting them from the consequences of their
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  crimes.
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  And thank you for bringing up Chuck Colson.
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  We've got to take a brief pause here, but he did found prison fellowship.
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  And also the Colson Center for the Biblical worldview, break point.
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  There's a lot of great work.
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  They're still doing breakpoint.org, man, 50 years ago, Colson got saved.
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  But anyway, Jonathan Brennan, our guest today will be right back on World View Matters.
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  Jonathan Brennan, our co-author of the book hereafter, is our guest today.
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  And in this second half of the podcast or the remaining time, we're going to talk about
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  an article about being unaware.
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  Pastors don't let your churches remain unaware of what lies ahead.
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  And I want to quote Jonathan and let him continue to explain.
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  He said, if I were to select one word that sums up most people today, it would be unaware.
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  Then he goes on, most believers pursue their aspirations with little or no understanding
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  of the times in which they live.
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  Talk to us about that, Jonathan.
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  We think of the Bible, the Manavisticar, who understood the times.
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  And what to do about it about what was going on.
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  Go ahead.
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  Yes, I think that one of the tragedies of our days, that Christians and non-Christian
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  is alike, don't understand the day in which we live.
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  They're unaware of the dangers.
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  And even if you discount all of the many signs that tell us the Lord is coming for us,
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  that the rep is going to happen very soon, there are so many signs of danger in our world.
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  So many signs that our economy is on the verge of collapse.
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  I cannot imagine us being $34, $35 trillion in debt in still having some semblance of an economy lot.
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  And then there's a constant poking at Russia.
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  Russia says, if you cross this line, we're going to attack you.
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  But NATO and America and the Biden administration keep going beyond that line.
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  And so there's a real danger of a nuclear attack against America, against NATO.
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  And how many more warnings will Russia give us before they act against us,
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  before they put their words into action and just the idea of sending missiles into Russia.
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  Well, Ukraine sending missiles into Russia with the help.
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  With our help, we'll surely bring a huge response from Russia that could bring the war to our shores.
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  But yet so many people remain unaware, so many pastors convey the message that everything is okay.
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  There's no danger ahead, the church is going to change the course of our world.
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  You know, normal times are going to come back.
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  No need to fear.
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  And that is the message in so many churches.
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  And it just, you know, it's just exasperating for me to think about that.
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  Yeah, what you just said, I want to jump ahead.
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  That's where I was going to go in your article toward the end.
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  You said the Lord's design for his church was to live with an anticipation of his imminent return.
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  So we kind of lose the idea of imminency, but also that does not mean we ignore what's going on.
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  And we are, we stop being active and engaging with culture and being salt and light.
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  Because that was what Jesus said.
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  You're a preservative.
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  You're the light of the world.
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  But Jonathan, go back to something early on in the article when you talk about Matthew 24 and the days of Noah.
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  A lot of people hear the days of Noah and they just think, oh, they were all sinful.
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  And God had to judge the earth and flood, send the worldwide flood.
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  But there's more to it than that.
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  Because this is where the parallel of modern day America comes in.
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  Where we're just going about our business.
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  Everyone's making plans.
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  Everyone's following their dreams, you know, getting married and all that.
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  That was the point, I believe, and was Jesus was making about people were just carrying on.
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  As if, you know, there was nothing to be concerned about.
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  It's not necessarily that there was the worst sinners and, you know, on earth at that time.
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  And things were really bad.
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  What are your thoughts about that?
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  Oh, yeah, you know, that there's an indication from the tax for the God says, you know,
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  since a time that of 120 years.
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  And I think a lot of people believe that Noah did a lot of preaching that time as well as building.
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  And the arc itself would have been a huge spectacle for the day.
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  But you're absolutely right that the parallel that Jesus draws is that the people were unaware.
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  They did not know what was coming despite the preaching of Noah.
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  Despite so many people, so many Bible prophecy experts in our day, you know,
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  talking about prophecy and how it relates to the day in which we live.
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  So many people today remain unaware.
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  They do not know what's coming because they're not listening to what God is telling them through scripture
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  and through these other men of God.
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  Just as if people of that day did that pay attention to Noah.
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  And so they lived as though nothing was going to interfere with their future plans.
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  They were giving, they were marrying, giving it marriage, living life is though.
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  If so, nothing was going to change in the unforeseen future.
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  And then you use the words suddenly, just like in Noah's day, when, you know, God's judgment comes when Christ returns.
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  It will be sudden, even though now we're, we seem like it's getting closer.
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  It's getting becoming imminent.
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  It's going to happen.
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  But when it does happen for those that are unaware or unsuspecting, it's going to feel to them like suddenly, right?
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  They're going to be shocked when they were carrying on and just, you know, maybe being a little apathetic about, you know, maybe the condition of their own hearts or their own lives.
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  What do you think?
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  Yes, I think that the sudden of, sadness of it, of the rapture will bring a lot of people to Christ eventually during the release stages of the day of the Lord of the Tribulation.
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  And there's so many today that are just kind of ignoring the warnings.
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  A lot of them think that they are Christians.
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  A lot of them think that, that they believe, but really they're trusting in something else besides the blood of Jesus, besides his death and the cross for their, for their hope of eternal life, for the forgiveness of sins.
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  And maybe the sadness of the rapture will be a good thing for many people because it will awake them to their need to generally turn to the Savior and turn to Jesus.
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  And so it will be a sudden thing.
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  And for the people of Noah's Day, of course, they watched as the animals gathered at the ark.
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  I believe that the Lord brought the animals to the ark.
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  Not even though the text doesn't tell us that directly and that eventually got shut the door to the ark and you wonder what they thought during those seven days when the door was shut before it started to rain.
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  But once it started to rain, then they suddenly knew it was too late for them to respond.
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  Oh, I have that feeling. I'm glad we will never know what that feels like.
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  The hopelessness, the oh my goodness Noah was right.
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  Before we run out of time, I just want to jump to the very end and talk about our responsibility as Christians because things are so dark and things are potentially overwhelming.
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  There's a spirit of irrational thinking and depravity and just it's very demonic what's happening, the darkness.
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  And I think some people are more open to maybe the gospel.
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  There may be more open to is there hope beyond this because to them, it's a fearful thing. This life is all they have.
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  So I want to read the last couple sentences and let you respond. You say life between now and the rapture may become increasingly scary and perilous because so many around us are aware of what's coming.
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  It is essential that we remain focused on the prize ahead of us. Continue to study scripture and be ready to give an answer to those who ask about our hope.
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  And of course, Jonathan, that's first Peter 315 always being ready to give an answer. Go ahead and share more about that because we've because I think we will be seeing more opportunities if we're open to them and led by the spirit.
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  Yeah, I believe we will. I think for those of us who know what's coming, who know that the Lord Jesus is our hope and that what we see in the world is exactly what scripture said the world would look like in the last days as we hold on to that.
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  There will be a sense in which we'll be able to to exude, exude hope when others around us are falling apart.
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  And there are men that I've come in contact with who believe like we do that things are not right in this world, but in their unsafe and so far they've not responded to the gospel.
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  It's sure that all religions are the same unfortunately. And in the other just did not respond to our share the gospel with him, but he nonetheless he was unsafe, but he was aware of the dangers in our world.
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  Unlike any pastors around aware, so just the bogus by mine, but yet I think, you know, there may be, you know, pockets of spiritual awakening between now and the rapture we just don't know.
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  There will be opportunities for us to share about our hope and to talk about the reasons why we believe in Jesus and appearing and that's another reason why in all of my books I try to have at least one are two presentations of the gospel.
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  Okay, for people who read those books now or might read them after the Lord appears to take us away so that they may come to know the Lord is their savior.
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  And so it's so important that we be ready to share our faith because we just don't know what a day may bring for.
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  And it, you know, it also does it mean we cancel all our plans or forget all our aspirations, but that we live with the awareness that things may change in a hurry and that the Lord may intervene in our lives very quickly.
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  That's right. So we will not be caught off guard. God forbid Believer is who know the word of God be caught off guard. That's encouragement to stay in the word friends.
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  So Jonathan, I wish we had a little more time, but we only have a minute left.
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  Your final encouragement to those who are just trying to get a handle on living in our context here in North America, in America specifically with an election coming up with all the lies you mentioned gas lighting.
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  Gaslighting is off the charts because people are being deceived just your final in 30 seconds some encouragement for people to just be discerning and just stick to the truth.
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  Just staying as word, you know, reposages that deal with our hopes such as first Corinthians 15, Priscilla and four even first John three the first few verses there.
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  Just immerse yourself in the words of scripture and in pray and just in just practice.
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  Understanding the times versus what you're reading's culture. Amen and I'll just add Romans 1221 do not be overcome by evil but overcome evil with good.
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  We must continue to still do good as lights in this world. Jonathan Brentner. It's always a pleasure speaking with your brother. Good to see you. We'll do this again soon.
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  Okay, thanks so much for having me on the show when you're most welcome Jonathan Brentner.com Harbinger's daily.com thanks friends share the podcast God bless you be encouraged and as always keep speaking the truth about things that matter.