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Shapiroworld by Strictly Business · Strictly Business

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You're listening to Strictly Business Podcast with Lindsay Williams.
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It's Monday, so it's time for Shapiro World with David Shapiro from Sassafin
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Securities.
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And my next guest, who of course is David Shapiro, on this day, 54 years ago,
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started his career as a stockbroker on the JSC Securities Exchange, or as it was
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known then, the Johannesburg
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Stock Exchange.
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And I was looking up the date of his arrival on that.
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particular exchange to see if there's anything that happened then nothing
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happened then i think the uk
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embassy in dublin was ransacked because of the troubles in in those days but other
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than that
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nothing happened on that day apart from the fact that david shapiro started his
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career congratulations david your
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longevity must be applauded it's a long time i remember the day well Lindsay,
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we were in the aftermath of the 1969 boom, which was a massive boom.
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And we never had the computer.
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We were early pioneers.
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In fact, the first firm in the country to use a computer, but it was used more for
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broker's notes.
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But it was still a manual system.
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And the mess that was created by the 1969 boom took us years and years to
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sort out.
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What do you mean the mess?
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Well, you know, I mean, in those days, you could just phone somebody on the floor and
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do a deal.
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And, you know, you didn't have to pay for it until the script came.
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Or the settlement issues were not designed to handle that kind of volume.
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And many people reneged on deals when the market crashed.
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We couldn't find them.
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So there was a lot of reconciling to do.
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Of course, net-net, people made money in that time.
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There was a lot of industrial businesses that came to the market.
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But I remember so much of my time was spent,
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even though I was on the floor, just kind of reconciling and phoning people and
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trying to relate things.
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And I must tell you, at those days,
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much of the script was put into the name of nominee companies.
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And I still think there are a huge number of...
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shares in companies' names, you know, the company of a god, that they can't trace
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who owns them.
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You know, no idea.
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So it could have been insider trading people actually buying ahead of an
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announcement from the company itself,
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and no one would know it would be actually the financial director doing so.
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Oh, yeah.
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Look, there was, I mean, the rules were nowhere close to.
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where they are today.
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Even in 1987, they had to tighten them up as they started.
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They learned a lot from the 1969 crash and then started to pick up things.
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You had to pay for script within seven days or 14 days.
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It was quite complicated.
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But it was at a time, I remember there was a journalist and funny enough,
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I know him very well and still speak to him often, John Spira.
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John used to write for the Sunday Times.
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And whatever was in his column in the Sunday Times, Business Times, on Monday,
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the shares were just raw.
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This was in 1969, you know, and obviously he kept it very quiet.
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I mean, he understood the power.
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He's a gentleman.
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And, you know, he,
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but I always remember John Spira's column on Sunday would move markets.
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And it was an incredible time.
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Also, it was a time that we saw the listing of the first.
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A unit trust company, Sage.
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What was the other one?
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Oh, I just, I forget the other one, which was the first one.
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But it was chaotic times.
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Property companies, Glen Anil, Tucker, various, various other businesses,
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property companies that came.
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So I was in the, I was cleaning up for years.
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How many people do you know that are still around today that were with you on the
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floor of the JSC 54 years ago,
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David?
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A couple.
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You know, most of them are retired.
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There are very few that are active.
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There is a reunion.
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You know, when we went electronic, a lot of chaps who were actually dealers, I
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think, found it difficult to adapt.
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Many of them are retired.
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But this year, 2026,
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will be 30 years since we went electronic, since the market moved off the floor.
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And I know there's a big reunion being planned.
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in June where I think all the ex-dealers and people who were on the floor, this is
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in 30 years ago.
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I mean, this is much longer than that.
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Actually, there are very few people that I can share stories with.
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from those days who are around, who I'm actively in contact with.
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Well, I mean, you're a rarity.
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I mean, people won't mind me.
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You won't mind me telling people that you're in your late 70s now, still very
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active, more active than most young people are.
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But 54 years to be in one profession is unusual.
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How many people today will be in the position that you're in?
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You did change your company.
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midstream.
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It wasn't that long ago compared to your 54-year-old career.
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But essentially, you've been with the same company all that time.
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Yeah, it was 21 years ago, but that was, it was a technicality, a difficult time.
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You know, we were bought out by Socgen, Societe Generale, and they split the firm
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into the retail side,
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which is today where I am, and the institutional side.
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And then with the fall, you know, the internet bubble bursting in 2000 and 2001.
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After 9-11, the French pulled out, Sockton pulled out, and it caused a little bit of
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a disruption here.
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And I tried to go back to what was then Sasson. And, you know,
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they weren't ready for me.
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There wasn't a position for me.
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So I wandered around for about a year and a half, almost two,
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and then went back after that in 2005.
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So I've been at Sasson now for 21 years.
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But it wasn't my intention to leave it just that the chaos that was caused even
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then in
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2000, you know, after the internet bubble and after
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9-11, I think markets were under a lot of pressure.
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People, firms are under a lot of pressure.
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They weren't making money.
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And yeah, so that's when I started.
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I came, I said, I'm not doing institutional business no more.
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And I said, all I want is an offers.
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And I started to build up a client base again.
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I just wanted clients at the time.
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One client, two clients, three clients.
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And you've thrived on it.
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And your clients have as well, I'm sure.
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David, you've seen some crashes in those times as well.
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What really stands out?
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I mean, I don't want to go too much into 54-year-olds. But I was thinking this
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morning,
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I saw what happened on Friday to precious metals and other risk-off assets, if you
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like.
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And it was all to do with the dollar debasement trade.
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people thought The dollar was going to go to nothing.
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And I still think it is going to be on a bear market.
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So people have been betting on dollar debasement trades like gold.
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But it fell dramatically Thursday and Friday of last week when we spoke when you
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and I were speaking to the governor.
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It went to as high as five thousand six hundred and twenty five dollars an hour.
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And in the early hours of this morning,
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it went more than $1,000 less than that peak.
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three real trading days before.
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And it was unheard of to me.
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I mean, I've seen some big crashes.
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87 was the one that still sticks in my mind.
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Yes.
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But what about you?
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What really sticks out?
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And after that, we'll ask what lessons we should learn.
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But what was the day that you said, goodness me, this is good fun or this is
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horrible?
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I was, the worst period I spent was in 1976 where we had the Soweto riots here.
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There were days on which we did no business.
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We didn't do a deal on the floor.
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We didn't do anything.
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I think the other shock was in 1985, the Rubicon speech by
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P.W. Berto when he shook his finger at the rest of the world.
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And then, funny enough, we followed with a boom in 87, but the crash was hard.
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That was, I remember, I was, I remember that day so clearly.
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And sitting.
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Sitting with my dad and a good friend, Jack Shapiro, who's no longer with us.
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Oh, Jack, we were at a restaurant.
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This was October 1987.
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We were at a restaurant in Bromfontein.
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They had some wonderful Italian restaurants there.
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Tell me the name.
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What was the name of it?
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I can't remember the name.
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There were a couple there.
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But there was Deals, of course.
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Well, Deals was on the Stock Exchange.
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This was just across the highway in Bromfontein.
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We were there, and I was sitting with my dad.
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and we were I remember there was Bobby McFerrin came out with the song, you know,
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be happy, don't worry, be happy.
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We were singing that, but that was hard.
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That was a big crack, you know, and somehow you felt it because you were on
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the floor, you know,
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it was happening around you.
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Whereas when you sit and watch it on a screen as I'm doing now, it doesn't feel
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anywhere near as severe as it did there.
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Because, you know, the one thing about the floor, and you know, you've been in
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markets.
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And the best fun, you know, what I loved about it was the noise that you could pick
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up the pulse of the market.
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You knew when it was getting strong.
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And the shouts and screams and, you know, the people tearing each other up.
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I love that part of it, you know, sitting here on the floor.
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I'm just watching it now in front of me.
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It's a bit cold, isn't it, compared to what you were used to?
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Oh, totally.
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Oh, yeah.
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It's efficient.
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But one thing that you have learned, I mean, we'll get to what you've learned
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from a humanitarian point of view or humanity
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point of view, rather.
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One thing you've learned from these crashes is that market bounces back.
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I mean, you can get a V-shaped recovery like we had on Liberation Day earlier in
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the year last year,
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2025, beginning of April.
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the stupid man in And the White House came up with this stupid name, Liberation Day,
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when he put on tariffs on countries that didn't even exist.
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And the market fell precipitously and then bounced straight back.
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A V-shaped recovery.
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And it's called that because you get your finger and you draw it down.
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And then when it recovers, you draw it up slightly to the right and it creates a V.
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And that's it.
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But, David, that's not the normal way, is it?
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It does recover, but sometimes it takes a while.
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And I can tell you.
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You'll get a recovery now.
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You get the ABC formation after this crash we've had in precious metals.
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But gold's not going back to 5,600 any time soon.
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It's going to take a while to recover.
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People are going to be nervous about this.
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And the people that didn't get out when it rallies are going to get out with a loss,
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probably, some of them.
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But it won't be as dramatic.
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It'll take, maybe it'll take a couple of years before it gets back there.
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A year, I don't know.
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But that was a real shock last week.
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I'm with you.
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There are a lot of people, there are a lot of gold bulls who believe it's going to go
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and that
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America is still under pressure.
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And, you know, the same stories.
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I'm saying, no, you know, this is not, no, this is going to take a long, long time.
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And yes, we'll have bounces.
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We'll have some confidence coming back into that market.
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We'll drive it up.
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But I think, you know where I see it?
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I see it in the Bitcoin market.
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Yes.
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This was supposed to be the same.
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And please, I haven't been involved in their market at all.
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I don't even know how to buy a Bitcoin.
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But I watch it and I watch the price formation.
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I watch the stories.
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Bloomberg have got a special program dedicated to crypto, you know.
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And it's gone.
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You know, I just say.
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Where is it now?
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77 or something?
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It's 77, 78, it was down to 74 and a half, but it was 126,000 two, three months ago.
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To me, that's finished.
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That's a bear market.
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Yes, everybody thought this would be the saviour.
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You know, that at times of stress, there'd be something to turn to.
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And I thought if anything, this would be the one that went to 150,200, not gold.
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and yet it just failed to live up to...
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its expectations or where people thought it would be.
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And that shocked me a little.
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And then, yeah, it's also the other thing is that we were talking about it, Lindsay,
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you know,
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and markets don't perform like that.
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When it's formed like that, that is sheer.
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This is what, you know, this was the GameStop of last year.
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It was those same kind of people, perhaps on a different continent.
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There was nothing real about the gold price this time, the silver price, the
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platinum price.
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It was just sheer madness.
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And the problem is you didn't know how high they were going to lift it, and nor
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did you want to make a guess.
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But you've seen what's happened, how it's come down.
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And you see the speed at which this has been unraveled.
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And, you know, you're dead right.
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You've read it, right?
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It will hover around here, but slowly it will just start to unwind.
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It's got to regain its confidence.
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It really has.
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Because the people that got in in the last three months, they've been burnt badly.
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And there's going to be stories.
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And one of the reasons is, I think, David, is not to do with irrational exuberance.
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It's to do with algorithms and it's to do with the way that, for example, an ETF
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does its business.
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An ETF's got a load of money and has to get a certain amount out because of the
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mandate of the ETF.
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So it just phones up the broker and says, I need to sell 500,000 ounces.
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And he doesn't say, yeah, finesse it.
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It's currently at 5,482.
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Yeah, my limit's 5,475.
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He just says sell it.
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So the guy says, thank you very much, and he sells it.
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And maybe he does some front running.
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Maybe he doesn't.
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I don't know.
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Or she.
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But it's not the same, David.
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It's not the same as David Shapiro getting an order and massaging it and finessing
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it.
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They just say, algorithm, press a button, goodbye.
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500,000 ounces gone.
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I learned that lesson when we were working for Societe Generale.
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And we started, although I wasn't involved in it, we were involved in the options
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market.
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And each day,
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the fund manager or the risk manager in Paris would look around and he would send
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an order through,
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sell 5,000 bid vests.
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And you say, we can't.
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First of all, Joffrey is my good friend.
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And it's 4 o'clock in the afternoon or whatever it is.
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The market's about to close.
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And he would just give instructions, sell.
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$5,000 or whatever it is.
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And you couldn't finesse him because he was balancing the books around the world.
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And we just had to do it.
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And the next day, because the markets were transparent, you know, you could too.
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Jeez, did we get wiped out by people?
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You had to do it.
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And that was risk management.
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And that's how they are.
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When they manage the risk, they don't care about you.
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And, I mean, we were dealing for them.
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So you get those situations during the cracks.
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of COVID, so many people had been, so many people were borrowed, you know,
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had leveraged deals.
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That market crashed, what, 20, 30 percent.
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All of a sudden, margins were called in, and the banks had to manage their risk and
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forced to sell out.
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And within a few days in March, what was 2020, the market recovered quite
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dramatically.
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But you were gone, you know.
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At that point, they had to get out.
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And later on, you know, you start accusing or people were being accused of, why did
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you do it?
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You could have waited.
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No.
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Risk managers do not give you that option.
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You know, when they're running huge banks with multi-dimension kind of investments,
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you know,
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or these massive investments around the world.
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So, you know, you want to do those kind of deals?
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Understand.
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And that's the same with stop loss.
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You know, stop loss doesn't know.
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If it hits a level, boom, it's automatic.
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It's done.
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And the market can bounce up and you finish.
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In fact, it can finish at the same price.
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It's very difficult for someone on the floor in the old days.
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I mean, I would give orders, for example, sell 200 gold at, let's call it,
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9.95 on stop.
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And on stop means that's the stop loss.
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And what on stop means is that if it touches 9.95, then…
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you have to go to market.
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I mean, the next trade could be 987 in extreme conditions,
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and you have to just sell at market once it hits 995.
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And you're on the floor and you're managing this.
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Then you have another one called sell me 100 gold at 995 MIT.
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That means market if touched.
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So the market could hit 995.
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And then if it's touched there, then you have to sell as well.
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It could go back up to 998.
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Or 999 and finish at 1017.
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But you have to sell anyway because he gave you the strict instruction, MIT.
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And the guy will phone you up and say, but it's 1017.
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Why did you sell?
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I said, look at your order.
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It says 995 MIT.
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So all these funny little orders.
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But the guys on the floor, I have to say, I had a great admiration for them,
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how they managed all those different orders coming in.
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buying and selling and stop losses and on-stop orders on the upside.
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Goodness, it was extraordinary.
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David, the other thing I wanted to ask you, in 54 years, did you learn a lot
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about human beings?
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You're learning a lot now because people will phone you more today than they
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probably have done for a while because of the potential,
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because of the big sell-off in precious metals and also the little bit of a
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potential sell-off in tech stocks,
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which hasn't really materialized.
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But have you learned something about how to deal with people?
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Oh, yeah, and how you have.
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And, I mean, this market is all in motion.
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I've learned many things.
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First of all, just going back to your dealers, the cleverer you were, the
19:14
higher, more degrees you had, the worse trader you were.
19:16
You know, most of these chaps, I don't know in the UK.
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They're barrow boys, fruit and veg salesmen.
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Yes, but brilliant.
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And you couldn't read them.
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They were absolutely brilliant traders.
19:27
on that.
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I don't, you know, they've had to adapt to a system today, which is an electronic
19:34
system.
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It's changed everything.
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But I think also you learn to deal with people.
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And I've said it to you a few times there, you know, finding good companies in which
19:43
to deal is easy.
19:45
Dealing with the emotions of your clients, that's a difficult thing.
19:48
Because I think, and especially because people are influenced by what happens on a
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minute-to-minute,
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day-to-day basis.
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Back in the old days, you know, you couldn't, you never knew the share prices.
20:02
I always say someone would be on a paper route and they'd throw the star onto the
20:08
front
20:09
lawn and you'd rush in to see where prices were, which were probably at the morning
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prices.
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You know, that's how we trade it on pieces of paper.
20:17
But today you can manage your wealth literally on a minute-to-minute basis.
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You know what your entire worth is now.
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And five minutes later, it's up 5%, down 5%, so on.
20:29
So it creates huge swings,
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and very few people have got the temperament to actually trade, not trade a
20:38
market,
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but just to ride through all these ups and downs.
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They all claim to be long-term investors until the market takes a bit of a knock.
20:47
Then the true emotions come out.
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But money is very important to people.
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They're very sensitive about it.
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And you've got to learn to handle that.
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I'd say the old saying when I first came,
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the old traders would say to me, you can fool around with a man's wife.
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But don't touch his money.
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And hopefully at least one of the two you adhere to.
21:22
David, what about today?
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What about the trade that happened that started on Thursday when we were speaking
21:31
to Viv on
21:33
the precious metals?
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I spoke to somebody over the weekend and he said it's all to do with the debasement
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trade.
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The fact is that people are talking about the dollar being debased And that's why.
21:41
gold and silver and other commodities and other dollar-based commodities went up.
21:48
And as soon as they heard that Walsh was the nomination of Trump for the Fed chair,
21:53
they said, no,
21:55
then maybe the dollar is going to be stabilised by a stable pair of hands at
21:59
the helm of the Fed.
22:01
I didn't buy it either.
22:03
I think that people were just buying because the central banks bought and it
22:06
got overheated and it fell.
22:08
I still think the dollar is going to be debased while Trump is in the White House.
22:11
I still think that Bitcoin is a scam.
22:14
And the only reason I say this is because I'm ignorant and I don't understand what
22:18
it does.
22:18
But I don't think that at 77,986 it's worth that.
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And I don't think at 126,000 it was worth that.
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And at 10,000 it's just a curiosity when it started to take off.
22:30
So I don't understand it, but I do not believe it's just the dollar debasement.
22:35
although I do believe That will affect the bond market.
22:38
I do think there's something else going on.
22:40
The stock market is going along nicely because the economy is starting to go
22:46
along nicely in the United States of America because of AI.
22:48
The rest of it, there's individual stories with each one.
22:50
And precious metals.
22:52
I don't buy it.
22:53
I'm with you.
22:54
This is not the basement of the dollar.
22:57
I just think that's a made-up story that's creating a lot of trader markets.
23:03
I think there are out-and-out punters out there.
23:06
Risking huge amounts, gearing up.
23:09
And so if you ask me under these circumstances, I'd rather have the dollar
23:15
than anything else.
23:17
I'd rather have the dollar than the euro or the yen or the renminbi or anything
23:20
else.
23:21
You know, just judging by the underlying economy.
23:23
There's nothing in Europe that attracts me.
23:26
There's some nice, very attractive companies there.
23:29
But in the UK, would I buy the pound?
23:31
No.
23:33
Maybe if you're buying in bonds, you know, you're a bond trader and there's a slight
23:38
differential in the yields you're getting.
23:40
But overall, I'm not going to invest my money in UK companies or something crazy
23:45
or European companies.
23:47
So I'm happy with where we are, you know, to stay in
23:51
US-centric companies and some really good businesses.
23:55
I'll play this out.
23:57
And, you know, to buy a piece of gold now or to buy metals in there.
24:03
I'm watching the Waiting for the US, funny enough I thought there'd be more of a
24:08
reaction
24:10
Reaction to what?
24:11
Finish your sentence please Reaction to what?
24:14
You said I thought there'd be more of a reaction To the fall in commodity prices
24:22
Yes there are Some big moves, you know, Sibania is down close to
24:28
10%. Impala's are down 8%.
24:32
Northern, 8%.
24:33
Well, in the opening, we had some gold shares down 12%, 13%, 14%.
24:37
But it recovered.
24:39
Unfortunately, the JSC opened just when the gold price was at 4,450 or something.
24:46
But whatever.
24:47
They have gone down sharply, but people are buying again.
24:49
I think they should be because it's not over.
24:52
it's just washed out the weak hands, David.
24:56
Yeah.
24:56
But you were going on about the US.
24:58
I'm looking at Subanya.
24:59
I'm looking at the platinum counters and that.
25:03
And, you know, if we look at Subanya, Subanya, after the huge run,
25:08
is not an all-time high.
25:10
No.
25:11
It was higher in 2022.
25:12
It was higher in 2021.
25:15
I think you can say the same thing for Valterra, which was formerly Anglo-Platts.
25:20
It's way off the highs that it reached.
25:23
in 2022.
25:24
That's a rand thing, I think, isn't it?
25:26
Impala, the same kind of thing.
25:28
Impala is not at an all-time high, or it was a couple of days ago.
25:35
But it gives you an idea why I bring that up.
25:38
It's just the volatility in this market.
25:41
While we think this has been a massive boom, it has,
25:44
but we forget the crack that started in 2021 and went all the way through to
25:51
late...
25:53
2024.
25:55
From then on, it started to recover.
25:57
But this is not a chart that goes from bottom left to top right.
26:00
This is choppy stuff.
26:01
We've seen good performance out of the gold shares, I think, because of gold's
26:06
performance.
26:08
But overall, you want to get involved in these shares, boy, you're in for a very
26:14
difficult ride.
26:16
And against that, you've got the miners deciding, what do we do?
26:20
How do we play this?
26:22
Where's this price going?
26:24
Do we expand?
26:25
Do we not?
26:25
What do we do with the cash that we're generating at the moment?
26:28
Just dig it out of the ground, sell it, and then decide on that in six months'
26:32
time.
26:33
That's what I say to them instead of going off and buying some obscure mine in
26:39
Colorado or something, or Canada,
26:41
wherever it is.
26:43
David, football over the weekend.
26:45
Arsenal have won the league, I think.
26:47
Six points clear, good goal difference.
26:49
So they've got to lose two games.
26:51
If City win all their games and Arsenal lose two games, then they're level on
26:54
points.
26:55
Arsenal, I think, have a better goal difference.
26:56
So they'll win it.
26:57
So it's an unlikely scenario with 14 games to go that that will happen.
27:02
Arsenal are the champions.
27:03
Congratulations.
27:05
No, no.
27:06
You know, there's still a lot to get through.
27:09
You can't.
27:10
I looked at City and I thought at halftime, I'm not watching this.
27:15
Spurs was so bad.
27:16
Oof.
27:17
They were just awful.
27:20
And then I get this notification on my phone, 2-1.
27:24
I said, okay, that's interesting.
27:25
2-2.
27:26
I said, okay.
27:27
And then they just hung on.
27:29
That's first.
27:30
But, I mean, how Siddy never put that away, I don't know.
27:35
I don't.
27:36
I blame Pep, actually.
27:37
I don't know.
27:39
He was too complacent.
27:40
And he let a mediocre team.
27:43
get on top the the crowd wasn't even behind him i was watching it with somebody
27:49
and i said to him look can you hear can you hear the
27:51
crowd he said what are you talking about i said exactly no there's no noise
27:56
whatsoever and they scored a goal and they got their tails up
27:58
and then solanke did that silly little scorpion kick to
28:01
score i was so furious because i mean firstly i don't really
28:08
like spurs I don't like Thomas Frank and his chewing at the...
28:11
His chewing, yeah.
28:12
Oh, his chewing annoys me.
28:15
It makes Ferguson look like a lord.
28:20
But anyway, I do believe that they are the champions now, and I will congratulate you
28:26
now on February 2nd.
28:28
I hope...
28:29
They've got a few games, and they're prone to doing silly things.
28:33
They've done their silly thing.
28:35
The silly thing was in January, and now they've come through it quite nicely.
28:38
The city didn't take advantage of it, nor did Aston Villa.
28:42
So that's the end of that.
28:43
David, thank you very much for your time.
28:44
David Shapiro is from Sessom Securities.
28:46
His anniversary, if you want to wish him well.
28:49
What's your social media presence these days, David?
28:52
Are you still on X or not?
28:54
I did.
28:55
They stole my account.
28:56
I heard that.
28:58
At the end of 23.
29:00
And I also got a bit annoyed and said, this is to try to build it up.
29:06
I couldn't get it back.
29:07
There was no one you could talk to.
29:09
The account was stolen or frozen.
29:12
You know, buy a bottle or whatever it was.
29:15
And that was that.
29:16
So that's my presence.
29:18
I'm running the Crystal Challenge.
29:20
I see you there.
29:21
Oh, what do you think of my picks without giving them away?
29:25
Did you look at them?
29:26
No, I did look at them.
29:28
That's interesting.
29:29
I've got to go back and look at them.
29:31
I've just been preparing this spreadsheet, which is a mammoth spreadsheet.
29:36
And you need to a lot of people chose foreign stocks.
29:38
A lot of people chose stocks they're not allowed to.
29:41
So you've got to edit it.
29:42
You've got to standardize it.
29:44
I've got to put the equations in, link it to a fact set formula and so on.
29:50
Don't you have an assistant to do that?
29:53
No, no, they couldn't do it.
29:54
You know, you need to have a careful eye.
29:58
And, you know, most people are not familiar, certainly, assistants and that.
30:02
You've got to have experience on the market to be able to understand a lot of
30:09
the things that people put in.
30:11
So, yeah, it takes me a anyway, I do it.
30:14
Well done.
30:15
I'll have it by the end of the week.
30:16
It's very exciting.
30:17
So what happens now?
30:17
You give a monthly update or what?
30:20
Yeah.
30:21
Do you say, you know, Lindsay Williams is winning at the end of the first month?
30:25
Is it a monthly?
30:27
I know we do it weekly.
30:28
Oh weekly, oh good.
30:29
I know we we I've got no the spreadsheet I've got is is live.
30:34
And who's sponsoring it David you can tell me now.
30:37
No no one's sponsoring anything we do it ourselves.
30:39
You said you had you had a sponsor for it.
30:41
No that sponsor wanted us to pay him.
30:49
Okay you know what I must say Cristal himself's the
30:55
the uh champagne company give us half price but um my broadband rudolph miller
31:02
is a star every year he comes through with uh with ipads and tablets and everything
31:09
he's been a wonderful wonderful help for us yeah so
31:13
but i mean yeah you know we do it ourselves we don't uh i'm not paying
31:20
anybody to write an article for me
31:22
right david um Talking about writing articles,
31:24
did you see that a company called Apex has bought Mining Max and
31:29
Currency? Currency has only just started.
31:31
They've been sold already.
31:33
That's good for financial journalism, I think.
31:36
No, I know.
31:38
That's Julieta and Rob Rose and Sarah and all of them.
31:41
Good luck to them.
31:42
Well done.
31:43
I think, you know what I like about it is that, Lindsay, things were falling apart.
31:47
You know, you could feel it just wasn't.
31:53
You know, the whole financial area was just, there wasn't, you needed this
31:58
consolidation.
32:00
You needed them to come together and say, okay, we've got a bit of muscle now.
32:01
Let's get the best writers, put them together instead of being all over the
32:05
place.
32:05
Yeah.
32:06
So I'm hoping something, you know, we need,
32:09
this is not like the chat we're having now or Alex, you know,
32:15
Biz News or Money Web, which are lined for online, you know, and they've got a very
32:21
special.
32:23
You know, it's very, what's the word, specialized clientele or readership.
32:26
But you need a newspaper.
32:28
I miss the newspaper being thrown to me over the fence and reading the headlines.
32:35
I think we need something like that.
32:37
Yes, we do.
32:37
We need more people throwing newspapers over fences in the morning, dodging the
32:42
potholes.
32:43
David, thank you very much for your time.
32:45
David Shapiro is from SAS and Securities.
32:47
And that was Shapiro World.
32:49
The views and opinions expressed in these podcasts are those of Lindsay Williams and
32:56
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32:58
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33:14
And since we are critically thinking human beings, these views are always subject to
33:19
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33:21
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33:23
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