Latest / Let Them Fly - Heather Harries Ed Hub / Instilling leadership and resilience with Marcus Hedley and Jack Reed from Frontfoot

Transcript

Instilling leadership and resilience with Marcus Hedley and Jack Reed from Frontfoot · Let Them Fly - Heather Harries Ed Hub

• 0:18
  SPEAKER_03: Hello and welcome to Let Them Fly with me, Heather Harris.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_03: If you've ever wondered whether your child is on the right path, this podcast is for you.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_03: Each week we share conversations that encourage parents to trust the journey, embrace different definitions of success, and believe more deeply in their child's potential.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_03: Today I'm joined by Jack Reed and Marcus Hedley, the team behind Frontfoot, a Dubai-based organisation delivering leadership and life skill programs for young people across the UAE, built on British Army principals and their own experience as former Sandhurst trained officers.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_03: We're talking about what real leadership looks like and how to help young people build confidence, resilience, and the ability to step up when it matters most.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_03: Jack and Marcus, welcome to Let Them Fly.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Good afternoon.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having us.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_03: So let me start by asking you a question about what do you wish every parent understood about leadership in children?
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: I would say that you've got to start, you know, at the very beginning.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: The more foundation skills you can put down in an introduction from a very young age, alarmingly young age, to be able to give them decision-making skills where there's no real outcome.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: But then as they then develop through that skill set, for them to understand the outcome and then also the accountability.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: So then there's so many avenues with which you can teach that, you know, in the uh classroom, at home, out in the shops, making a plan.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many different ways that parents can get involved with really increasing the confidence.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because we talk about leadership, really looking at the confidence of an individual to be able to communicate effectively with potentially a team.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: And also we talk about leadership, but followership is also a vital skill.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's very much so.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I have to say, years and years ago, and um my children were very little, and one of the kids had fallen into a swimming pool, and um one of the gentlemen, the guys at the party was ex-army uh officer, and he basically said, jump, and I dived into the pool straight away, didn't even think twice about it.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm clearly very much a follower, and he'd stood on the side, bone dry, while I fished this child out of the pool.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I said to myself, that's clearly what the military does for you.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_03: And he was like chuckling away.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_03: He thought it was very funny.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so how did you?
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_03: I'm going to just sort of start with, how did you know that you had leadership potential and you decided to go to, I mean, Sandhurst is no mean feat for anyone, and I know we've had discussions about the different levels of Sandhurst, but how did you know that you had leadership potential and that was what you wanted to do?
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's a really good question.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh growing up, I was fortunate I played a lot of sport and and fortunately played quite a good level.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think even at a young age, you sort of find yourself stepping forward into leadership positions, even when you don't know that they're actually leadership, it's perhaps doing the right thing when a few of the guys in the team aren't.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: It was then sort of looking towards standhurst, it was family exposure.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: So my brother-in-law actually served with with um Marcus.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um he's a pilot if he he hasn't mentioned yet.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so I had a lot of exposure of going to past out parades, and I was very fortunate to get the exposure at quite a young age.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_03: So I sort of decided, well, I was like, tell me a bit about Sandhurst for you.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Oh I think it's really, really easy to look back and add rose-tinted spectacles.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's a really, really hard year, and certainly for someone that had had no military experience, a little bit of exposure, but no experience.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: The first five weeks, I think, probably still in a few, it's shock of capture.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, you did much better at standard.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: But uh it's a shock of capture and it's great fun.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's diff it is really difficult.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: You learn an awful lot about yourself.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: Things you don't necessarily know beforehand as well, because you haven't been exposed to not sleeping for three or four nights.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: You haven't been exposed to sometimes things just going not the way you plan them to.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_03: And were your parents, none of your parents were military?
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, far from it.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, my father was Royal Air Force.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: So not really military, but Royal Air Force.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_03: But you were bought, you were brought up in that very slightly more disciplined, structured environment, probably.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think as growing up on the patch as a sort of patch brat, um it was more the community rather than the discipline, I think.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um I was because my father was uh Royal Air Force, we were I was fortunate enough with my two brothers to go to boarding school.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I think a lot of my leadership understanding really it's grown from that experience from the age of eight, going to boarding school through to the same school at 18.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: And those opportunities that were given to me from, you know, I still, you know, sadly stay in touch with a lot of the members of staff that I spent 10 years of my life with, who were responsible for you know developing me as an individual, but also as part of the team and that real cohesion and you know uh comradeship that you get from when you are immersed in a situation with you know, with different people from all over the world.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but it sounds very cliche, but you do build bonds that just can't be replicated.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: So even now, as complete civilians, my bonds with ex-military guys that I serve with are incredibly strong.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: You can go three or four years without speaking and then suddenly you meet yourself, but it's no time's past.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_03: But I think when you have an experience with somebody that's that's you that's out of your comfort zone, you always bond with those people in a very well, very good way.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_03: So taking your military experience, what made you think that it was a really good um project, I guess, to give to children?
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think whether or not it's just the military experience, I think it is the experience that we've had.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: So we've I've been in the UAE now uh nine years, and I have three children.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so looking at from a father's perspective and a family perspective, the UAE we are incredibly blessed to be able to live here and work here, and the children you know couldn't be happier where they are, but that does come at a slight cost in an opportunity perspective, and that's really where Jack and I threw our heads together, and that the soft skills and the hardship and the comfort level that we are very lucky to have here in UAE, we thought didn't necessarily present the children with the opportunities or the experience that they would have to move forward, because it's not always going to be quite as simple, and you're not always gonna have everything there given to you on a plate.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's you know, being comfortable, being uncomfortable, you know, if it's a very cliched statement.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: But it is, I think, a real key, and I think that's something that's missing here within the UAE.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, hence why we came up with Frontfoot and those soft skills and the understanding, you know, our blended solution where we also incorporate the parents as well, is a key to be able to try to offer to parents, look, we can offer these skills, you know, in our weekly ECA, but at the same time with our blended learning solution, we're also giving you a way to be able to continue the training throughout the week.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because Sandhurst, for instance, back to the leadership, it's a 44-week, fairly arduous course.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you certainly look back with rose-tinted spectacles.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's those, it's that that um immersion for that full year, but we can't do that you know in a in an ECA per week.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why we've really developed the solution to be able to really enable the parents to continue that training for the full week of that particular topic.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: But it builds a culture as well, doesn't it?
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: An hour a week, you can't really affect change.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're then taking it home and going through it for hours, you can.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting point you made and to answer your question uh in a slightly different way.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: We were both very fortunate through uh our time in the military to train adults and to get the best out of adults.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: I then came across the UAE, worked with the National Services Head of Leadership Development.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: All adults.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: And you see, a lot of adults have never had the chance to practice and to learn that the the foundations.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: So the realization was hang on, why are we waiting until after university, after your first grad job, whatever it is, let's teach it early and then develop it as you're growing.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: So schools of the natural.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's the foundation.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: And again, if you can set those that ethos right from the beginning, then you've you've you know it's like experience, isn't it?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: You can ex start your experience much, much younger, which is one of the benefits.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_03: And front you've came up with front foot, but give why why the name?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_03: Tell me the name first of all.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's a tough one, isn't it?
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I don't know, so it is very tough, yeah.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think everything we do is to try and put younger people, and actually corporate and military to an extent as well, on the front foot.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: So it is a bit cliche, of course, but giving you the skills so that when you're in a situation that you haven't experienced before, you've got the skill set, you've got the toolkit to think, actually, I may not have had this exact experience, but I don't need to be on the back foot for this.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_03: It's a great name.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_03: I just wondered there was a a greater story than that.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_03: Sadly, sadly not.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think we will develop one.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_03: We measure children on grades all the time.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but do you think we're failing when we use grades as a measure?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_03: Go on, tell me why you think that.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: I say yes very uh flippantly there.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think the way that society is developed is that in order to open a door, you know, by the time you finish university, if you go to university, you have a piece of paper that says Marcus did a three-year degree and he achieved this particular grade with this particular um subject.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: I then move into a career field which is not not associated at all with that particular skill set that I've, you know, displayed my academic prowess.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think bringing that back to grades from school is again, let's ask the question of why the grades are so important.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: To schools, what do they get graded on?
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: They get graded outstanding or they get graded as, you know, um, you know, I can't even remember the other ones, but so many outstanding schools.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: So the effort at school goes into the academic achievements.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas when you put someone into an interview situation, that academic prowess, other than the knowledge base they may all have, they need to be able to communicate that to the individual they're speaking to.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: So it's those soft skills and that character that even with, I mean, I say this to principals the whole time, you've got a student who is straight lines, and you think about putting them in front of an interview panel, and you're going to be doing the tooth sucking thinking, not quite so sure.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas you've got a far lower graded student, and then you think, right, let's put that C V in front of them.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, they'll be fine.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: Now, what's that based on?
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: It has nothing to do with academics.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: That has to do with the building a rapport with individual, being able to communicate effectively, and having a scaffolding technique to be able to take a tricky question, think about a situation as Jack was saying, you may well not have faced exactly, but I can manipulate that into answer your question, and then put my best foot forward to say this is the result for this particular question.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's heightened at the moment as well.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: We all have ChatGPT, clawed whatever, in our pocket.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: A decade ago, if you were applying for university, you'd have to write your own personal statement, whatever that looked like.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: And by merits of what you'd produce for the university, you'd find yourself in the seat.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: We can all now produce unbelievable work within 30 minutes.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: So you're now getting a cohort of students who are incredibly gifted with AI to get them in the seat, but then as soon as they're actually talking to the Oxbridge, the whoever representative the other side, the interviewer, interviewer, can fall apart pretty quickly if you don't have the ability to articulate the incredible work you put in front of them.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_03: Leaders born or made good question.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: Good question.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: Personally, I think it's both.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think everyone has the ability to lead.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: What is leadership?
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's you don't just become a leader.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's having mental awareness, it's having a moral compass, it's having integrity, it's so many things that have to be tested in all situations.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone has the ability, in my opinion, to some extent to lead.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: Not everyone wants to, and quite a few people quite rightly, not everyone can be a leader.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think everyone has the ability to step forward.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: I would I would second that.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think that I would put it far more down to the nurture and the environment that's created.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you from a very young age are given the opportunity and you feel that you have a safe place in which I failed, well, okay, let's assess that, let's analyse what happened, what would we do differently?
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then that's you know, again, it's the repetition of the human brain, when it works with iteration, recency and frequency.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: If you've done something frequently and recently, you're going to be able to do it to a higher standard than something you haven't done recently and you've only done it a few times.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: So again, I think I would put that down to the nurture, really.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: So again, I would stand by that statement of that anybody could become, you know, whatever leader they potentially want to be able to, but they have to be given the conditions, I would say, from an young age, that they can fulfil that potential.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: But also to build confidence.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's very easy.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: So we are so fortunate to live in this amazing nation, but we are told yes more than anyone else on the planet.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: So confidence, in my opinion, should be earned.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: You're not going to get real confidence by telling, yes, Mark, you're the best pilot in the whole planet.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's true.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_03: You're not telling that every day.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I have to, otherwise he gets upset.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: But you it's constantly the reinforcement of you're the best, you're the best.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well, actually, at some point, life's going to deliver the bad news that you might not be the best at that.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: But you might have other I love when we have students.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: We did a uh leadership task or a set of tasks a day in uh in Dubai.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Weekend just gone.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: The young girl turned up who clearly wasn't very confident, didn't think she was in sort of able to keep up with the other other students.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: Come the end of the day, Marcus did a uh a debrief, which very military style.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: So one point I said, sort of go a little bit easy, these questions are quite tough.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: And the girl who was looking down who didn't want to talk in the beginning, was the only one to step forward and actually put you in your box quite nicely, which I really enjoyed.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it was so, so heartwarming to see.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, you've that moment where she realized I can do this, and actually I can probably do it better than a lot of people stood next to me.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: That was that was oh, that's really lovely.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_03: What does a front foot exercise weekend look like?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: Good question.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, again, I would I did my first four and a half years in Alain, so the deserts for me is an incredibly important place, Alain in the middle of the desert, um, or in the mountains.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: So a a weekend experience at the end of term one or the end of term two, um, several year groups will get the opportunity to go on a uh leadership weekend, call it.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: So we set up all the um Arabic tents, we have great big campfire, um, but the students will tend to arrive, they will then establish themselves, they will make the choices about which tents they can have, they come up with their own rules.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: So again, it gives them the accountability.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: And if a member of staff of Front Foot staff doesn't abide by their by their rules, then we would anticipate, and we will test that, we will anticipate that they will say, excuse me, but and they will do it in a polite way.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: So again, it's that challenging conversation or that awkward conversation.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: Say, yeah, but I need to tell Marcus that you take to take his shoes off in the tent.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, we we test how we do that.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: So we go through then a series of um clearly the safety brief, and then we will introduce to some tasks of the day, and that's where we put um fairly military-based tasks, but they are not physically enduring.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's important to us that everybody of all physical ability is able to partake.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because, as Jack mentioned, some physics leadership experiences come from sports teams.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: Some pupils don't like sport.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if they don't want to do the Duke of Edinburgh Award scheme, then because they haven't got the time or they haven't got they've they're fearful of their own physical endurance, they'd still be welcome on our course because they've still got to learn those soft skills and we offer that um capability.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll do a series of uh physical tasks where um you know analysis, um, limited information, sensory deprivation, so whether they be blindfolded or not be allowed to speak with each other, or maybe one person is allowed to speak, or a certain words per minute, they will then look to achieve that task.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: Some of the tasks are not achievable, and some of those are deliberately put in place because we want to see the reaction, and actually that's where we're rewarding the effort and the okay, that's not worked out.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, let's come back.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: Has anybody else got any other ideas?
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: And again, that me leadership and followership is where the key comes in because if you're not selected as the leader, how can you assist that leader?
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and also we do leaders uh leader-less tasks, and those are fascinating to watch.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: Then we will and then we will do an evening meal with them, and then we do a campfire to uh around the campfire discussion about the day's activities.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um we do some starlight navigation if there's no clouds, which we're normally fairly lucky with.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then in the morning, you know, we've got some who don't necessarily point in that direction, but you know, um watch the sunrise, a little bit of grounding, breath work, and a lot of people are like, I'm not gonna go and do that.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, because that looks rubbish.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: But there's not a single face that's not got a massive smile on after they go and do that.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm the worst for that.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: I do know beforehand, I didn't buy into any of it because I'm 100 miles an hour the whole time, as you will testify to.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: But actually, just taking five minutes, the sitting up there with the students, and and one of our amazing instructors is qualified in.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what she qualified in, but qualifies to do it.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it's the breath work, it's the just taking a moment.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, I think my heart rate dropped by 30 minutes a minute just by taking a minute.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: The world is going to continue.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_03: One of the guests we had earlier in the series, um, Dr.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_03: Sandy, she's she left medical practice to do exactly that mindfulness breath work, and she was just trying to explain how important it was.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, it really is, yeah.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it really is.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: Certainly, and again, we're so lucky to live here, but it's a million miles an hour all the time.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: Just taking that five minutes.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm I lived down in Abu Dhabi, so I don't feel it quite as bad uh as badly as I did when I lived in Dubai, as I was reminded as soon as I crossed into the border driving.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: But just having that five minutes, such a lovely reset.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um and then the people that turn up on these camps, um, are they do they know each other beforehand?
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_03: Do they come as a group?
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_03: Do they come as individuals?
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's a mix, it depends on the camp.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: So oftentimes it depends, of course, it depends on numbers as well.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: But we try and integrate various different groups who have never met because it's very easy to turn up if you're comfortable with the 20 guys you've or guys and girls you've been to school with.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: As soon as there's another dynamic in there, you're like, okay.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: So that is then going out your comfort zone to introduce.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: It was lovely actually, when the students turned up uh this weekend's gone, their first task was right, go and find five people you don't know.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: It gives you three facts about them.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: And you can see it's initially it was so uncomfortable for them, but then actually quite proudly saying, Well, I know that he's got three dogs, lives in whatever.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_03: We were talking recently about um the problem, one of the problems is that when you're a child and you grow up you know in school, you have a role that's sort of given to you by your peers, and that's the role you have all through school, and it's very hard to step out of that role.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I assume when you put them in these camps, they're sort of predefined expectations of everyone from them, they can actually surprise their friends and turn into something quite different.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that's a fascinating one, is that when you know, because you know we had uh two brothers, and in fact, we had three sisters and we had two brothers, and we will immediately split them up because there's that slight and some people say, well, that's a little bit unkind, but it but it's not.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's giving them the opportunity and the exposure to think, right, I've now got to think on my own two feet, I can't just stand here and have a chat with Jack because I know him.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: I've got to put myself out there.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so again, some people, I hate small talk, but I'm told I'm okay at it.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, but there's an art and there's a there's a way in which you can appear to be very natural at small talk, but actually do very little talking.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: And again, it's those skills and that exposure we try to introduce um during the course so that they have that skill and they don't have that fear.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, my year 13's down in Abu Dhabi, I said, right, you know, I there wasn't one.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: I said, right, there's going to be 20 school governors that are about to arrive.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: They arrive in about 12 minutes.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um so all I need you to do is go down and mingle with them and just speak.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't need you to get any information, don't you need you to give them any information.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: I just want you to entertain them and speak with them for 15 minutes because the first event doesn't stop and their faces mortified.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: But obviously, I didn't make them do that because I didn't arrange for 20 school governors to arrive.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: But again, seeing that reaction, then also we check in on them how they are physically feeling, right?
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: How is everybody feeling right now?
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to do it.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to okay.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then we talk about why, and then we try to give them the strategies of right, well, let's actually play that through and see how we could make ourselves feel more comfortable in this situation.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um so how do you so in terms of touching on what you were saying and but going put taking a bit deeper, how do you build confidence in a child that has a real impact?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: I I say this more as a father, which I think is really bled into our syllabus, is in enabling a child to be safe in failing in a way that they are going to grow from it.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um I would I call it leadership?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm not sure.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's more character-based in that I think it's really important from a parent's perspective that because you know I'm one of three brothers and we parent very differently.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I've seen, you know, in all sorts of walks of life where a child um does something the parent doesn't necessarily want it to do, and it's immediately right, give me the iPad, and it's gone.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: There's be in that situation from a leadership or in a character development, there's been no decision-making process made by that child.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas if you can try to you know increase the calm within the parent to say, you've got three minutes or a period of time, but I then need this to happen.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: So you you let them make a decision.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: If they get to the point, okay, if you don't do that after three minutes, then here's the consequence.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's that consequence which is quite frequently missing.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'll give you one very short example, which is one of my favorites actually.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: So Toby, my 12-year-old, had a friend over to stay, and it was the third time I was going into the bedroom to say, right, boys, it's now time to go to sleep.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: And the friend said to me, he said, or what?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, ooh, like it.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I like that.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I then thought for a few seconds, and I think taking that condor moment, that's probably something the leadership from the military takes you, is that when you have the chaos of war, or when you have a chaotic situation, you want to just try and fix it straight away.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: The best thing we were taught is right, step back, take that condor moment, and think about how you are going to fix this problem.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: So he challenged me.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: He said, Right, or what?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so I said to him, I said, and I was going to follow through, and that's the important thing for me is the follow through is that I said, if you choose not to go to sleep or quiet and down anything, then you will not go to sleep until I let you go to sleep.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, I've got heaps of I didn't, I've got heaps of work to do.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll probably Going to bed about two o'clock, but I won't let you go to sleep until that happens.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: And what was the funniest thing was that he was like, I could see him pondering, thinking, is he just is he gonna follow through notes?
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: And Toby, my son, just said, honestly, don't.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: He will make you.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's sometimes that's you know, give a suitable consequence that is achievable in that moment, depending on the age.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then that that really benefits from their decision-making process, their analysis of a situation.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: And again, starting from those younger years and developing that as they build through.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I would put it down to.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: But I I wouldn't put under the leadership bit, but it's building those characters that you associate with someone who is a natural leader.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, but building confidence as well, though.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's a controlled environment, but allowing failure.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: Hundred percent.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: Allowing things to not quite go right.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: As I said earlier, we're so fortunate to live in this country where often things go pretty well.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you don't often get told no, which is brilliant, but it's not brilliant in developing characters.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: So actually controlling the environment in a safe way, in a constructive way, but okay, the thing you thought was gonna go really well hasn't gone well at all.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: How are you gonna get back from that?
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's real confidence, I think, seeing actually I can fail, but I can also work out how to overcome it.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of you're amazing, you are gonna win the X Massa, go on it tomorrow.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_03: I think I think education needs to be rethought.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_03: I think education has become a bit soft on children because that whole not letting them know they're failing or you know, in any shape or form is is not always a good thing when you get to real life.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_03: But um, I just if you if any child or when children leave your program, what is the one thing you really hope they've got out of it?
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think I would put it down.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: Can I only choose one?
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: I would go self-belief, I think.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: Self-belief in the confidence to be able to know that they have strategies and practice and iterations of facing a difficult situation and being confident enough and their own self-belief that they can overcome or at least give their best effort if it doesn't work, replan and re-attack after that.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: Would be mine.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: Jack.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: Mine would be probably it's quite similar, just steal your so I quite you to get first.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: Trust the process.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: We are not gonna be 100%, we're not the finished products.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: We had a uh year eight map out the next 30 years for their life done in Abbey Abbey who was gonna be a dermatologist.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Dermatologist, yeah.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: I thought, I'm already the wrong side of 13, I don't know what I'm doing.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: I've got two companies, I don't know what I'm doing tomorrow.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: So trust the process.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: I I hate public speaking.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: I had to work really hard in the military to get good at it, and I still don't like it.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: But you don't have to be amazing at something to get to a good standard.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: So trust the process and believe in yourself.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_03: That's my fame for saying I everything I do, I always say trust the process.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you for that.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and just thank you so much for joining us.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_03: Uh obviously, Frontfoot is it's filling a massive gap in the market, and I know you're doing you're setting the world alight really by filling those skills that children aren't getting.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I do have one curveball question that we don't give you any um any advanced warning on, and it's to both of you.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_03: So, if knowing everything you know now, you could go back and tell your eight-year-old self just one thing, what would it be?
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: I know mine.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: I would like to give it more context, but just be kind.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think young boys get to an age where they're 13, 14, where being cool is more important than being kind.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying I was a raging bully or anything, but I look back at some things as the cool rugby kid and think, actually, that's not cool at all.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: That was really unkind.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: That probably really upset that person at that time.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: Completely unrelated to this, but just be kind.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: If you go to bed and you've made the world a 1% better place, but you've done nothing else, you haven't you haven't gone far wrong for the game.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_03: I like that.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: Believe in yourself, you know.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: Again, it comes down to sort of trust the process, but you know, you you're going to make mistakes.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: Believe that, you know, each mistake can make you stronger.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but but don't lose faith and belief in yourself because you know you need to be your biggest champion, especially in today's world.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: Don't feel you have to follow the ground.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're not going to be the oddball.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: Believe that you know what you are looking at, and you know, and it will change.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: But own it.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, true.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: You're super weird.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: But you own it, and you're a great weirdo.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_03: We do a lot on team dynamics, do we?
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much for joining us today.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's been an absolute pleasure on having you on Let Them Fly.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, any information to reach is in the information beneath, and we look forward to speaking to you again in the future.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much for having me.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: What you're doing is amazing.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's amazing.