Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #845 Phones, Phubbing & Relationship Satisfaction

Transcript

#845 Phones, Phubbing & Relationship Satisfaction · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:03
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
0:07
Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers now, regardless of
0:12
Speaker 1: the relationship, the length of the relationship, everything associated with it,
0:15
Speaker 1: excessive phone usage, bias, spouse leads to general frustrations, and
0:21
Speaker 1: it's also linked with serious marital issues.
0:26
Speaker 2: And now here's the stars of our show.
0:28
Speaker 1: My mum and Dad. Before we start today's podcast, Kylie
0:32
Speaker 1: has made me promise that this is not going to
0:33
Speaker 1: be about her. This is about us. In fact, this
0:36
Speaker 1: is just about people. It's about couples. It's not about
0:39
Speaker 1: We're not putting any fingers. Are we really really not
0:42
Speaker 1: pulling any fingers at all? Because this could very much
0:45
Speaker 1: be about me. This has been about me.
0:47
Speaker 2: This things about you.
0:49
Speaker 1: I can't believe. I can't believe that you just put
0:52
Speaker 1: me under the bus. You told me I'm not allowed
0:53
Speaker 1: to put you under the bus, and you literally threw
0:56
Speaker 1: me straight back.
0:56
Speaker 2: They're not putting me under the bus. You just put
0:58
Speaker 2: me under the bus.
0:59
Speaker 1: I can't believe that you're saying this. Gosh, let's talk
1:02
Speaker 1: about it. Have you noticed how long it's been since
1:03
Speaker 1: we've done a doctor's desk.
1:05
Speaker 2: It hasn't been long enough.
1:07
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've also noticed that what I
1:09
Speaker 1: keep on doing is I keep on finding these studies
1:11
Speaker 1: and sneakly just making them podcast episodes rather than doing
1:14
Speaker 1: a special doctor's desk episode.
1:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've noticed that.
1:17
Speaker 1: Then we're doing it again today. I'm really excited about it.
1:20
Speaker 1: Brand new study come out just recently from the Institute
1:23
Speaker 1: of Family Studies in the United States. They've combined with
1:25
Speaker 1: the Weekly Institute, done a whole lot of research with
1:28
Speaker 1: two thousand married couples. Today's conversation is about married couples
1:32
Speaker 1: being happy rather than parenting per se. And in the
1:37
Speaker 1: information that they gleaned from these two thousand study participants
1:41
Speaker 1: related to their marital satisfaction in relation to their use
1:47
Speaker 1: of telephones, No.
1:49
Speaker 2: Not telephones, smartphones, okay, fine, on social.
1:53
Speaker 1: Media in terms of their time on screens in front
1:56
Speaker 1: of phones, doing the whole thing. What's it called fubbing? Fubbing,
2:00
Speaker 1: pH ubb ing, fubbing. You're shaking your head. You don't
2:04
Speaker 1: like the idea of fubbing.
2:06
Speaker 2: It displows my mind, all these new words that get creative.
2:09
Speaker 1: So what I's been around for a while. Fubbing literally
2:11
Speaker 1: means prioritizing one's phone, hence the over people, so you're
2:16
Speaker 1: not snubbing them, you're fubbing them. Fubbing really interesting though.
2:21
Speaker 1: Some other research one hundred and forty five adults in
2:24
Speaker 1: this particular research showed that fubbing among romantic partners is
2:29
Speaker 1: associated with greater relationship dissatisfaction, which kind of makes sense, right,
2:33
Speaker 1: If the phone's more interesting than the person you're sitting
2:35
Speaker 1: across the table from, of course the relationship's going to
2:38
Speaker 1: be in the sync. There was a therapist also who
2:42
Speaker 1: I found a quote from. His name is Andrew Soften,
2:45
Speaker 1: who said smartphones have caused more upheval than anything I've
2:49
Speaker 1: seen in my career. This is a twenty five years
2:52
Speaker 1: of practice, therapist. Smartphones have caused more upheaval than anything
2:56
Speaker 1: I've seen in my career. We've normalized, I love this,
3:00
Speaker 1: normalized them being intrusive. We just accept the intrusive nature
3:04
Speaker 1: of it and we don't think twice about it. And
3:06
Speaker 1: he says, and we've normalized them taking precedents when people
3:10
Speaker 1: are lying in bed, playing word or scrolling through TikTok
3:14
Speaker 1: rather than talking to each other.
3:16
Speaker 2: It's interesting, though, when we have these conversations, though they
3:19
Speaker 2: usually centered around our teenagers.
3:21
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, yeah, that's right. Everyone's worry about their kids
3:23
Speaker 1: and their phone use. But there is a massive issue
3:25
Speaker 1: for couples, and that's what we're going to talk about today,
3:27
Speaker 1: the research and what we can do about it. I
3:30
Speaker 1: won't say who this was, but somebody close to us,
3:33
Speaker 1: maybe ten or twelve years ago. This was right on
3:36
Speaker 1: the very verge of when smartphones became ubiquitous, when they
3:39
Speaker 1: were absolutely everywhere. He bought a T shirt for himself
3:44
Speaker 1: and it basically said, I can't remember the exact words,
3:47
Speaker 1: but in big letters it said there's no one I'd
3:50
Speaker 1: rather lay in bed next to while she's on her
3:53
Speaker 1: phone than my wife. And it was just a total
3:56
Speaker 1: slam that they're not together anymore. I might add, because
3:59
Speaker 1: the fubbing was happening ten twelve years ago, I think
4:02
Speaker 1: it's worse. We don't have clear data on that. But
4:05
Speaker 1: should I go through a little bit about what the
4:06
Speaker 1: research has found.
4:08
Speaker 2: I was going to say, shoot, mean, but don't just
4:10
Speaker 2: tell me what to dess.
4:11
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, So, in a nutshell, thirty seven percent
4:15
Speaker 1: of people said that their spouse is off on the
4:18
Speaker 1: phone when they would prefer to do something or talk
4:21
Speaker 1: as a couple thirty seven percent. So we're talking just
4:26
Speaker 1: over thirty people. I guess I was going to say half,
4:28
Speaker 1: but it's not that many. But it's still a reasonably
4:30
Speaker 1: sized number of people on the phone. I want your attention,
4:33
Speaker 1: can't get it because you're there. Now, here's what's interesting
4:35
Speaker 1: when it gets broken down by demographic, forty four percent
4:38
Speaker 1: of lower income couples but only thirty one percent of
4:41
Speaker 1: higher income couples dealing with this issue. So there seems
4:44
Speaker 1: to be a relationship between education and income and the
4:48
Speaker 1: way phone use interferes with the relationship. Because those who
4:52
Speaker 1: had university degrees were significantly less likely much lower numbers
4:56
Speaker 1: of fubbing or phone interference in the relationship compared to
4:59
Speaker 1: those without a university degree.
5:01
Speaker 2: We see that across the board, there was so many
5:03
Speaker 2: different studies. Education makes such a difference in the way
5:06
Speaker 2: we respond to the world and kind of I guess,
5:10
Speaker 2: utilize what's available to us.
5:12
Speaker 1: I want to be really careful when we say this, though,
5:14
Speaker 1: because this is what we call cross sectional research. We're
5:16
Speaker 1: not saying that if you don't have a university degree,
5:19
Speaker 1: then therefore you're more likely to have a dissatisfying relationship,
5:22
Speaker 1: or you're more likely to use your phone in unhealthy ways.
5:27
Speaker 1: This is not about individuals. This is saying across the board.
5:29
Speaker 1: When you look at things at a population level, on average,
5:32
Speaker 1: that's what happens. There's plenty of very, very very well
5:34
Speaker 1: educated people who use their phones far too much. Well
5:37
Speaker 1: looking at me like that, like, I'm one of those.
5:40
Speaker 1: So sometimes I am one of those people.
5:42
Speaker 2: Right. I'm thinking about the fact that you don't have
5:44
Speaker 2: to have a university degree to be considered an educated person, though,
5:48
Speaker 2: and I think our relationship with learning and education in
5:53
Speaker 2: general changes the way we view the world and we
5:56
Speaker 2: view ourselves.
5:57
Speaker 1: Now's something else about this research as well. Younger couple
6:00
Speaker 1: were more likely to be distracted by their phone in
6:03
Speaker 1: their relationship than older couples, and that also tells.
6:05
Speaker 2: You they've grown up with it. Like when I went
6:08
Speaker 2: to high school, we didn't have laptops. Two years later,
6:12
Speaker 2: my sister ended high school and laptops were a thing.
6:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, so I didn't.
6:16
Speaker 2: I never learned to like the computers that we were
6:19
Speaker 2: working on. It was the black screen with the green robot.
6:22
Speaker 1: Yeah the stuff.
6:24
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, I'm I can manage myself around a laptop,
6:29
Speaker 2: but it's.
6:30
Speaker 1: Not No, it's not natural to you, not natural native
6:33
Speaker 1: to this stuff at all.
6:35
Speaker 2: But our children they have grown up with this. So
6:39
Speaker 2: it's no wonder that younger couples are struggling with this
6:42
Speaker 2: because it's just it's been, it's been their life.
6:45
Speaker 1: And it's also worth just remembering what statistics really mean. Right,
6:47
Speaker 1: So less education and less income, you are usually also
6:51
Speaker 1: likely to be younger, right, because as you get older,
6:53
Speaker 1: you tend to have a bit more education and you
6:55
Speaker 1: certainly have a bit more income. So all of these
6:57
Speaker 1: things are correlated. And that's why this research it's interesting
7:00
Speaker 1: and it's informative, but the demographic research is only that.
7:04
Speaker 1: The real meat of this particular research is not in
7:07
Speaker 1: the demographic stuff. It's in what comes next, and that
7:09
Speaker 1: is the relationship between smartphones and marital quality. And what
7:14
Speaker 1: the research is essentially found is that regardless regardless of
7:21
Speaker 1: the relationship, the length of the relationship, everything associated with it,
7:24
Speaker 1: excessive phone usage bias spouse leads to general frustrations and
7:30
Speaker 1: it's also linked with serious marital issues. In fact, couples
7:35
Speaker 1: who deal with excessive phone use. The report says are
7:38
Speaker 1: less happy about their marriage than others. Only about six
7:42
Speaker 1: in ten married adults whose spouse is often on the
7:46
Speaker 1: phone say they're very happy in their marriage. It's over
7:49
Speaker 1: eighty percent more than eight in ten of those who
7:53
Speaker 1: don't struggle with the issue, they're the ones that are saying, yeah,
7:55
Speaker 1: I'm happy. So there's quite a discrepancy there in terms
7:58
Speaker 1: of relationship satisfaction. It's down when you're on your phone more.
8:03
Speaker 1: It's associated with low marital happiness, and it's also linked
8:06
Speaker 1: with greater worries about divorce, which I thought was quite
8:09
Speaker 1: an interesting finding. The researchers also showed that the more
8:12
Speaker 1: you use your phone, the less likely it is that
8:14
Speaker 1: you're going to go on date nights and have time
8:16
Speaker 1: as a couple. And the more you use your phone
8:18
Speaker 1: or screen, the less intimacy you'll have in your relationship.
8:21
Speaker 1: In some ways, this is all kind of obvious and
8:23
Speaker 1: to be expected. Many people who are listening to this
8:25
Speaker 1: are experiencing it. Just recently, I was an event and
8:29
Speaker 1: we were talking about smartphones and screens in adult relationships,
8:33
Speaker 1: and one of the women in the audience said, I
8:35
Speaker 1: wish my husband was here. We are dealing with this
8:38
Speaker 1: on an every single day basis. I just can't get
8:41
Speaker 1: him off his phone. And it's not just the men.
8:43
Speaker 1: There's plenty of women who are doing the same thing.
8:46
Speaker 1: TikTok and wordle and gaming. They affect people across the board.
8:52
Speaker 2: So it's interesting because as we've had this discussion.
8:54
Speaker 1: Over the years, as you've gotten crank amp me for
8:57
Speaker 1: using my phone too much over.
8:58
Speaker 2: The years, our perception of the other person is often
9:02
Speaker 2: very different from our own perception. Yes, so we we've
9:06
Speaker 2: sat down with the kids numerous times and actually looked
9:09
Speaker 2: at our screen times and had discussions about where we're
9:12
Speaker 2: using our time because.
9:13
Speaker 1: It feels like every time I walk into the room,
9:14
Speaker 1: they're on their damn phone or I'm on my phone.
9:16
Speaker 1: Well you're on your phone, and I'm always saying would
9:19
Speaker 1: you just get off your phone?
9:20
Speaker 2: And then when I pull out my screen time and
9:22
Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, so Facebook, I've only been on Facebook
9:24
Speaker 2: for twenty seven minutes in an entire day, Like it's
9:28
Speaker 2: not And you say to me, so does that mean.
9:30
Speaker 1: Every time single time you've got a Facebook I've walked
9:33
Speaker 1: into the room, You're like, yeah, that's it. Yeah kind
9:36
Speaker 1: of So we need to discuss what we can do
9:41
Speaker 1: about it.
9:42
Speaker 2: Well, we've got four ideas that we can talk about.
9:44
Speaker 1: What's number one, establish rules like actually have a conversation
9:47
Speaker 1: about it and say I want to have a chat
9:50
Speaker 1: with you about our tech use. Is now a good time?
9:53
Speaker 1: No defensiveness, no blaming, just an acknowledgment that we all
9:57
Speaker 1: get stuff wrong from time to time, and I know
9:59
Speaker 1: that I'm having some challenges and I reckon we can
10:01
Speaker 1: probably improve our tech use. Would you be open to
10:03
Speaker 1: having a chat? And if the answer is no, you say,
10:06
Speaker 1: well one would be a good time. But hopefully the
10:09
Speaker 1: answer will be yeah, sure, and then you get to
10:11
Speaker 1: have that chat. You get to say all right, So
10:13
Speaker 1: I just thought we could talk about it because I
10:16
Speaker 1: don't mind you being on your phone, and I'm not
10:18
Speaker 1: your parent, but every and now and again, I really
10:21
Speaker 1: want your attention and I feel like the phone's in
10:23
Speaker 1: the way.
10:23
Speaker 2: So I know in the early days, you'd come home
10:25
Speaker 2: and you'd be in the middle of a conversation because
10:27
Speaker 2: on the drive home you're having your talking to someone.
10:30
Speaker 2: It's workdays continued.
10:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there's that spillover is and there for when
10:34
Speaker 1: you would.
10:35
Speaker 2: Come home, I would be expecting your full attention. Yeah,
10:38
Speaker 2: I've been with the kids all day. I just need
10:40
Speaker 2: somebody to kind of just have my back, be involved
10:43
Speaker 2: and actually help out. And yet you were still completely
10:46
Speaker 2: in your work brain headspace.
10:48
Speaker 1: It's not just that, but the calls are really important, right,
10:50
Speaker 1: And so if I've got kids making noise or I've
10:52
Speaker 1: got you trying to get my attention, and I'd be
10:53
Speaker 1: holding up my finger saying just one minute, just one minute,
10:56
Speaker 1: and try to assign language to you while I'm saying
10:58
Speaker 1: uh huh aha to this person who's having this important
11:01
Speaker 1: conversation with me. So we established a rule after you
11:04
Speaker 1: explained to me how it felt for you, and the
11:06
Speaker 1: rule was, I'm not allowed to enter the house if
11:08
Speaker 1: I'm still on the phone, full stop, end of story.
11:11
Speaker 1: And so what I started doing was parking in the
11:13
Speaker 1: driveway to finish my phone call. And then you explained
11:15
Speaker 1: that when I get home and I spend twenty minutes
11:17
Speaker 1: sitting in the driveway finishing, it just doesn't feel nice.
11:21
Speaker 1: It's horrible. Everyone's spearing up the window, like does he
11:24
Speaker 1: love people other than us more than he loves us?
11:27
Speaker 1: And so then we decided that I wasn't allowed to
11:30
Speaker 1: pull up in front of the house. If I was,
11:31
Speaker 1: I don't say you were allowed.
11:33
Speaker 2: Oh.
11:33
Speaker 1: We agreed that that was a We recognized.
11:35
Speaker 2: That for both of us. It was trying to trying
11:38
Speaker 2: to find the way that.
11:39
Speaker 1: Works for both of us so that you can feel
11:41
Speaker 1: seen hurt in value, so that you can feel connected
11:43
Speaker 1: to me and you don't feel like you're a secondary priority,
11:47
Speaker 1: which meant that a few times I would drive around
11:49
Speaker 1: the block, like eight or ten times, and so I
11:51
Speaker 1: finally would say to the person I was on the photo,
11:52
Speaker 1: I'm like, I've driven around the block ten times because
11:54
Speaker 1: I've got a rule with my wife that I do
11:56
Speaker 1: not sit in the driveway or walk into the house
11:58
Speaker 1: on the phone, And can we finish this tomorrow because
12:01
Speaker 1: I'm wearing out my tires, like I'm using up fuel.
12:04
Speaker 1: I'm going to have to get the car service. I've
12:05
Speaker 1: done so many kilometers around this block, and just that
12:09
Speaker 1: one rule made a huge difference. Huge.
12:13
Speaker 2: But we also have a rule that we don't have
12:15
Speaker 2: phones at the table. Yep, so doesn't matter teenage is adults.
12:18
Speaker 2: There's no phones at the table. Every now and again
12:21
Speaker 2: we'll get a phone call, and sometimes it's just it's
12:24
Speaker 2: a blanket rule. Nope, we're not answering.
12:26
Speaker 1: I remember went back in the olden days before mobile phones, okay,
12:29
Speaker 1: and there was just the rotary phone on the wall,
12:31
Speaker 1: and the phone would ring during dinner and my dad
12:33
Speaker 1: would say, don't answer it. Like it was just you
12:37
Speaker 1: don't pick up the phone when there's a meal. And
12:40
Speaker 1: that doesn't seem to have carried over so much. There's
12:41
Speaker 1: phones at the table too much, So I think that
12:44
Speaker 1: it's good to not have phones at the table. We
12:46
Speaker 1: struggle with this one, but I'm going to put it
12:48
Speaker 1: out there. No phones in the bedroom. I don't think
12:51
Speaker 1: that phones in the bedroom serve the relationship. When you're
12:54
Speaker 1: in the bedroom, it's best if you're in there because
12:57
Speaker 1: you want to be together or because you're going to sleep.
13:00
Speaker 2: So the challenge, I mean, the challenge we have is
13:03
Speaker 2: the fact that for most people, your phone is everything right,
13:07
Speaker 2: it's your alarm clock, It's got all the information in it.
13:12
Speaker 2: Now I don't ever have my phone on at night time,
13:16
Speaker 2: but we've got a baby coming in the next few
13:18
Speaker 2: weeks and I've got to have it on. I want
13:21
Speaker 2: to know when things are happening.
13:22
Speaker 1: But you can still have the phone out of the bedroom. Right,
13:25
Speaker 1: you can have the phone out of the bedroom. Go
13:27
Speaker 1: and buy an alarm clock, don't link it to the phone.
13:30
Speaker 1: And if the phone rings outside in the kitchen and
13:33
Speaker 1: you know there's a baby coming tomorrow night, you're going
13:36
Speaker 1: to wake up when the phone rings, right, you can
13:37
Speaker 1: go and do it.
13:38
Speaker 2: When did you wake up last?
13:39
Speaker 1: Let's move on to our second thing. So other other
13:42
Speaker 1: than rules, no phones at the table, no phones during
13:45
Speaker 1: family time, no phones during a couple of time. No
13:47
Speaker 1: phones in the bedroom, no phone when you're entering the house.
13:49
Speaker 2: You know, that's a really big one. You've just kind
13:52
Speaker 2: of blanketed over it, but it's a huge one. When
13:54
Speaker 2: we're go on a date, you and I have stopped
13:56
Speaker 2: taking our phones. And again it's a little bit tricky.
13:59
Speaker 2: You've got young kids at home and you want to
14:01
Speaker 2: kind of check in. But do you know what if
14:04
Speaker 2: you can't have just an hour, the kids are going
14:07
Speaker 2: to be okay. Grandma's got them, Auntie's got them, whoever's
14:10
Speaker 2: got them, it's going to be okay. It's really important
14:14
Speaker 2: that you put your relationship first.
14:15
Speaker 1: Okay. The second thing is we've got to communicate intentions.
14:17
Speaker 1: This is a really big one for me. So when
14:20
Speaker 1: you pick up your phone and I'm expecting your attention,
14:24
Speaker 1: sometimes I don't respond quite as well as you might
14:26
Speaker 1: like me to. And we've worked out that the best
14:28
Speaker 1: thing to do is, actually, you don't need my permission,
14:31
Speaker 1: and I don't need your permission to use the phone.
14:34
Speaker 1: But if I pick up my phone and I say
14:36
Speaker 1: to you, honey, I know that we're not doing phones
14:39
Speaker 1: just now, but I just remembered this very important thing,
14:42
Speaker 1: I explain what it is to you, and then I'll say,
14:44
Speaker 1: do you mind if I just take care of this?
14:46
Speaker 1: Like you've never said no to me, and like I
14:48
Speaker 1: would never say no to you, But it's just it's
14:51
Speaker 1: a courtesy. It's saying I acknowledge that you're here, I
14:53
Speaker 1: acknowledge what time it is that we're supposed to be
14:55
Speaker 1: spending together. If it weren't for this urgent matter that
14:59
Speaker 1: I've just remembered, I would leave the phone alone. But
15:02
Speaker 1: I'm only going to be four minutes and then I'll
15:04
Speaker 1: be back with you. Just communicating your intentions makes a
15:07
Speaker 1: huge difference.
15:08
Speaker 2: But on the other hand, there's been a few times
15:09
Speaker 2: where we've actually either one of us has said, you know,
15:11
Speaker 2: what could you do? That a little bit later. Right now,
15:14
Speaker 2: what we're doing is important.
15:16
Speaker 1: And you mean you've said that to me. I don't
15:20
Speaker 1: think that I say that to you very often. Maybe
15:21
Speaker 1: you have, maybe I do.
15:22
Speaker 2: Nothing one or two one or two times. But I think,
15:25
Speaker 2: like you said, it's about being courteous and respectful.
15:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's not about not actually about getting permission,
15:31
Speaker 1: although sometimes you need it, but it's really it's really
15:34
Speaker 1: just that courtesy and recognizing another person. The third thing
15:38
Speaker 1: date nights. I mean, you've just mentioned it, so we've
15:40
Speaker 1: kind of we can cross that one off really quickly.
15:42
Speaker 1: But we just don't take our phones on date nights
15:44
Speaker 1: because we want to be present for one another. It
15:46
Speaker 1: makes a big difference. And the last thing, which is
15:50
Speaker 1: really what I want you to talk about, is we've
15:53
Speaker 1: agreed that even though we've got all these agreements in
15:55
Speaker 1: place about the way we use our phones, we don't
15:58
Speaker 1: keep tabs on each other, don't act like we're the police.
16:02
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think this is really important because you're you're
16:05
Speaker 2: not my mum, you're not my dad, you're my husband,
16:09
Speaker 2: and we're an equal partnership. And as a result, as
16:14
Speaker 2: soon as you start saying, hey, we made this commitment
16:17
Speaker 2: and you're breaking it. There's an unequal distribution of power
16:21
Speaker 2: in the relationship. I now feel like I'm a little
16:24
Speaker 2: kid and I'm being kind of pulled to task over.
16:28
Speaker 2: So the best thing that you can do in a situation,
16:31
Speaker 2: if you feel like you've had these discussions and things
16:34
Speaker 2: are kind of just not working out Sunday meetings, this
16:38
Speaker 2: is the perfect time to say, hey, let's have let's
16:41
Speaker 2: check in. How are we going with our technology discussion
16:44
Speaker 2: and decisions that we made around that. How do you
16:46
Speaker 2: feel like this week's gone. It's not even about putting
16:48
Speaker 2: it on them. It's about having an open discussion because
16:51
Speaker 2: his perception and your perception, or your perception and her
16:54
Speaker 2: perception are going to be completely different. They always are,
16:58
Speaker 2: and so it's about how do we find them so
17:01
Speaker 2: that we can actually feel like, where do I know? Okay?
17:03
Speaker 1: In this area, time on smartphones can interfere with marital
17:07
Speaker 1: and relationship satisfaction. The evidence is there, even though it's
17:10
Speaker 1: fairly scant and skinny at the moment.
17:12
Speaker 2: That's got to be more exciting things to do.
17:21
Speaker 1: I think that there are definitely more exciting things to do.
17:25
Speaker 1: That's all I'm going to say. We really hope though,
17:27
Speaker 1: that there's some ideas that we shared with you that
17:29
Speaker 1: will create some useful conversations. Thank you so much for
17:33
Speaker 1: listening to the Happy Families Podcast. We know that there's
17:34
Speaker 1: a bunch of other things that you could be doing,
17:36
Speaker 1: and we so appreciate that you give us some time
17:38
Speaker 1: and focus on your smartphone while you're trying to make
17:42
Speaker 1: your family happier. The Happy Family Podcast is produced by
17:45
Speaker 1: Justin Roland from Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer.
17:48
Speaker 1: For more information about how to make your family happier,
17:50
Speaker 1: please visit us at happy families dot com dot AU
17:54
Speaker 1: and one more quick thing this Thursday. This Thursday, it's
17:58
Speaker 1: that smells like teens some If you don't have your
18:01
Speaker 1: tickets yet, only a couple of days to go grab
18:03
Speaker 1: them at happy families dot com dot A