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What makes a great project manager? · Project Podcast

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  Hello, and welcome to the APM Podcast.
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  APM is the chartered body for the project profession.
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  My name's Emma Devita, I'm editor of the Project Journal
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  and your host. In this episode, we ask what
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  makes a great project manager. As we often hear in this
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  podcast, being an effective project professional is about
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  more than just managing timelines and budgets.
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  It's also about creating a space where teams can thrive and
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  achieve goals together. But isn't that easier said than
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  done? And how can project managers
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  strike the right balance between technical skills and the
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  emotional intelligence needed to manage teams?
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  Throughout this episode, you'll hear from a range of project
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  professionals who shared with us their personal reflections on
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  the question, What makes a great project manager?
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  We hear from both apprentices and experienced hands, but
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  whether they've been managing projects for two years or 25,
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  all of their responses have some commonalities, with people
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  management being a central theme.
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  But what also emerges is that there's no single formula for
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  great project management. Fostering strong team dynamics,
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  building trust, staying calm under pressure and inspiring
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  optimism all are important, but truly great project managers
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  exhibit a blend of technical expertise, people's skills,
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  adaptability and yes, even a sense of humour.
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  After all, as one of our guests points out, given we spend so
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  much of our time at work, why not make it enjoyable?
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  So whether you're an inspiring project manager or seasoned
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  professional, listen on to hear more about what it takes to be
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  the best. First, let's hear from Jimmy
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  Wiyan, an associate director at Turner and Townsend.
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  In 2023, Jimmy was named Project Professional of the Year at the
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  APM Project Management Awards. He believes great project
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  managers need to blend several different skill sets together.
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  If you're really organised right and you pair that with people
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  skills, I think you're probably 7580% on the way of being a
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  really big project professional. I'd like to emphasise on these
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  two because I think a lot of people, wherever they are, can,
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  can, can pick this up and, and read it from today.
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  They could focus on that, that element of being organised.
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  And through that you're talking about collaborating, being able
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  to communicate and then becoming a sort of a, a master problem
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  solver, being analytical and knowing when to ask for support
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  and help as well. So that you get that bigger
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  picture of you because on projects you are focused on the
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  day-to-day. It's always good to have that
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  reach back to the sponsors or the programme managers who have
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  that kind of overarching oversight and that kind of helps
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  you keep you on on track. Being able to see things
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  through. I, I think that's a, that's an
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  incredible skill to have in, in the project environment, being
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  able to see things through and, and take an ownership of it.
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  So if you were trying to solve or issues in design and, and
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  trying to hit certain key milestones of completing design,
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  you know, spending a lot of time with designers and trying to
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  plan that out and seeing it into, you know, towards towards
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  the end. And there's so many elements
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  within a project coming from so many different parts.
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  If you focused on a few and just try to see all the way through
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  and taking that ownership, you'll be seen as quite
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  pragmatic as a result. So if you pair that all those
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  elements together, there's some skill sets.
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  I say we need to successful projects.
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  Next up is Linda Rawsthorne, who's head of the government
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  property profession. Sitting within the Cabinet
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  Office. Linda is responsible for the
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  strategy for the whole government estate, which covers
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  everything from hospitals to courts and offices.
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  Here she is reflecting on what makes a great project manager.
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  I suppose one of the things that I really see is it's about focus
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  and understanding. So it's the the looking down,
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  the knowing how much detail you need to know and how much you
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  don't, but also looking up and representing in the ecosystem.
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  We have a a phrase that we use which is Whitehall Ninja in
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  government, which is someone who knows their way into other
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  departments in order to find the right person to be supporting
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  the project so that different ministers get reports on the
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  projects so that there's much more understanding of what's
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  going on and where help is needed and where we can make a
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  difference. And I think being really honest
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  is a really key part of being a great project leader and
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  nurturing and talking about bringing on for the future and
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  the next sort of generation. But I suppose the thing that I
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  think is, is the best is effective delegation.
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  If you can empower the people nearest the decisions to make
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  the decisions, they understand all the aspects of it.
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  And yes, you might query and you might bring your experience to
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  challenge, but ultimately, if you can delegate decisions down
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  to the right level, that's where everybody comes in.
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  Because if everyone in your team's got ownership of the
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  project, you're on a winner. If people are just sitting there
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  along for the ride then it's going to be a very difficult
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  fight. Sticking with a government
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  theme, our next clip comes from Al Jason, Head of Project
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  Delivery, Centre of Excellence and Profession at UK Parliament,
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  who works on projects and programmes across the House of
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  Commons and the House of Lords. He thinks great project
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  management is partly about being an ambassador and having a
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  willingness to grow. I think it's a combination of
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  technical leadership and personal attributes as well.
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  So knowledge, skills and behaviours and it's about the
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  ability to inspire people to, to make a difference.
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  And I think a great project manager is someone who is
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  multifaceted, you know, who continuously want to develop
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  themselves. They're not afraid to try new
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  things, but it's also they're receptive to, you know, learning
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  lessons and using insights to make things better for their
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  projects or their initiatives. It's a combination of different
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  skills. You've got communication,
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  leadership, problem solving, decision making, and they need
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  to be an ambassador as well. They must have the ability to
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  foster strong team dynamics, build relationships, which is
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  very important because you could have the best projects, you
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  could have the best project, you know, manager in the world, but
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  you know, if you're unable to build relationships, then that
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  would make things a lot harder in delivering projects.
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  So someone who's able to balance the needs of, you know, the
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  teams, the organisations, but also your own personal needs as
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  a project delivery professional. So it's the combination of
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  different things that requires adaptability, flexibility and
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  the willingness to, you know, to learn and grow on a regular
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  basis. We turn now to the experiences
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  of two women who recently completed project management
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  apprenticeships with the National Trust.
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  We'll hear first from Rebecca Corcoran and then from Flora
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  Smith, both of whom I interviewed at the National
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  Trust property Deer and Park in southwest England last year.
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  Despite being early in their careers, both Rebecca and Flora
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  have already developed a keen sense of what makes a great
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  project manager. I would say to be adaptable to
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  be able to, you know, react well to change and because I think
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  projects are all about change and I don't, I don't think I've
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  yet to see a project because, you know, delivered to time,
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  cost and scope. So I think it's really important
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  to be able to be adaptable, like build that flexibility in to to
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  your programme, to your dealings with other people as well.
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  I think knowing when to be decisive and when to really take
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  that stand, but also knowing when to take a step back,
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  reflect, accept people and monitor yourself with other
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  people's emotions. I think being controlled in your
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  reactions to certain stressful events, say if a stakeholder is
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  really upset, make sure that they feel listened to even
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  though they're going against maybe what you believe in.
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  But it's just making sure that you're also, you're trying to
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  speak their language. And I think that's a huge lesson
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  is sort of understanding other people because I have seen it in
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  examples where it's come to loggerheads and there's some
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  immovability in it. And it's, it taught me like you
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  need to just accept people for how they're going to be.
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  But also you can guide them in a way and try and understand their
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  perspective and try and work with them.
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  But it's also OK at a point if it doesn't work like that.
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  But I think biggest skill is people.
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  And I definitely say I've seen a lot of goods with that sort of
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  people management, but I've also seen the flip side where it
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  doesn't work. But it's interesting to see how
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  you navigate the actual sort of problem that you have and how to
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  communicate with people in a way that they can understand.
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  And I think that is what I'd like to be as a project manager
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  is just to be understanding, but also know when to sort of stand
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  up for myself at the same time. I think that's such a delicate
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  balance as well. And it's a hard lesson, but
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  that's a big take away from it. And what I would like to be and
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  what people would say is like, wow, you've got great people
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  management skills. That's what I would like to sort
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  of come away with. Now let's hear from another
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  project professional who is a relatively early in her career,
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  Carolina Zettorska, who was recently promoted to senior
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  project manager at space rocket propulsion company Namo UK.
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  She shares why being a great project manager is partly about
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  keeping sight of the bigger picture of a project without
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  getting lost in their detail. So I.
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  Think organised, you need to be organised or you need to have
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  ways of becoming organised. So if you know, you're not, you
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  know, an organised person, there are ways of doing it for a job
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  and that's fine people skills because you do end up meeting
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  all sorts of different people and you need to be able to work
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  with them. Project management is definitely
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  a social, social job. I think just openness and like
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  eagerness to learn and maybe not be so detailed driven.
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  Because the one thing I struggled with as well when I
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  came over from engineering to PM ING is I wanted to be involved
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  in every single, you know, technical discussion and
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  technical solution and know how things work.
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  But actually at the PM, you don't need that very detail
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  orientated knowledge. You just need to know the top
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  level. But again, that's, that's the
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  sort of thing that you would learn when you take the, you
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  know, associate PM position or the if you do a placement to it,
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  you sort of draw a boundary of what, what you need to know
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  versus what would be a nice to have.
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  But again, having a mentor also helps because I, I don't think I
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  would be here without the support of of my manager,
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  especially in the early days when, yeah, just having someone
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  to say, look, this is the situation.
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  What should I do or how far do I go?
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  And for them to to just guide you through it is definitely
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  invaluable. Our final response comes from
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  Emma Carol Walsh, who's Director of Commercial and Project
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  Services at Aqua Consultants, Deputy leader of APMS Built
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  Environment Interest Network and a former APM board trustee.
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  She shares why a sense of fun is an underrated quality in a
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  project manager. To me, the best project managers
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  that I've had the privilege of working with, they've really
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  been very diligent, collaborative definitely, and
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  they've really sort of known that, sort of knew the trade.
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  So they're very skilled in things like managing risk, in
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  planning, stakeholder management.
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  So some of the real key competencies that we want our
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  project managers to have. But overall, I think for me it's
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  they've been really good fun, which you might think is a
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  really odd thing to say, but actually, you know, you spend a
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  lot of time at work, so you've got to be able to have fun even
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  when things are stressful. And that that really helps, I
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  think, to keep people and teams motivated.
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  So for me, yeah, a great project manager is, is lots of fun to
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  work with and actually have your back, really have your back and
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  able to support. You need to come with that level
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  of optimism and being able to motivate others because things
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  will be will come stressful on various times in projects.
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  And at the end of the day, we're all human beings and everyone
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  comes to work really to do a good job.
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  So it's about like, how do you make it fun?
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  How do you make it motivational and and how do you make it so
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  that you can actually support your team, because a project
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  manager is only ever as good as the team.
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  They've got the ring. The one.
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  That's it for this episode of the APM Podcast.
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  Thanks to all our guests for sharing their views on what
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  makes a great project manager. A couple of themes that really
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  stood out were the importance of people skills alongside great
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  organisation skills and technical competencies, and the
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  ability to really listen. We'd like to hear your thoughts
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  too. What do you think makes a great
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  project manager? Leave us a comment if you're a
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  Spotify user or e-mail us at APM Podcast at
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  thinkpublishing.co.uk. This podcast has been brought to
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  you by APM, the chartered body for the project profession.
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  For more information on APM, visit apm.org.uk.