Latest / Gospel Talks Podcast / #95 - Does your life make the gospel more believable—or less? Daring to be different. (Part 2)

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#95 - Does your life make the gospel more believable—or less? Daring to be different. (Part 2) · Gospel Talks Podcast

• 0:00
  There's a question that has been stuck in my mind since last week.
• 0:05
  And here's the question Will I love this world enough to be quite unlike this world
• 0:10
  that I might point the people of this world towards a better one?
• 0:15
  If you didn't listen to last week's episode,
• 0:17
  this is a continuation of that discussion based on an article that Alistair Begg,
• 0:22
  Pastor Alistair Begg, wrote. And we're talking about
• 0:25
  The relationship of holiness to evangelism.
• 0:28
  And it is one of the most needed topics out there.
• 0:34
  Welcome everybody to Gospel Talks Podcast,
• 0:36
  where we help Christians all around the world become more effective
• 0:39
  in relational evangelism and discipleship.
• 0:41
  My name is George Binocca, and with me today is Jeff Musgrave,
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  the author founder of The Exchange.
• 0:48
  I'm so glad to have him. Jeff,
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  how are you doing?
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  I'm doing good today. It's it's ~ about as hot here as it is there.
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  I'm in Denver and you're in Phoenix and it's hot.
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  What's what's the temperature over there?
• 0:59
  Well, we're only got about ninety one today.
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  ~ we're we're on our way up still.
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  Okay. All right. Well, ~ I'm sorry.
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  I know you're like in a hundred and ten.
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  It's
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  hard for me to feel bad for anybody when they talk about heat.
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  So it's just it is what it is.
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  I need to pray about that. ~ well,
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  Yeah.
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  hey, we're continuing our series here.
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  I guess it's gonna be two parts on this question that Alistair Begg asks,
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  and we're kind of picking up where we left off last week.
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  We're talking about that passage where Peter mentions our conduct among believers.
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  ~
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  And and I guess here's the question coming out of that discussion where
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  we left off last week is does our daily lifestyle as believers actually affect
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  our credibility of our witness ~ in a good way,
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  in a bad way? In what way does it affect the credibility of our witness?
• 1:45
  Yeah. And you know, when I hear Alistair Beggs question,
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  the phrase that goes through my brain,
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  because it's a little easier for me to remember,
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  is I need to dare to be different so that I can make a difference.
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  And yes, I I genuinely believe that the way I behave,
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  the way I live in this world is going to impact people around me.
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  I mean, if I'm around someone who is super
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  rude and trying to crowd in front of me in a line and you know talking loud
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  and making a nuisance of themselves.
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  I I it it irritates me. I want to get away from that person.
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  that's the negative. the positive is when I'm around someone who's kind
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  and is is generous toward me in terms of how what they say,
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  what they do, they're kind and they're thoughtful.
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  they they're loving other people around them.
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  It makes me want to be with them.
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  It makes me want to be close to them.
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  And and I think that's just a practical answer.
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  Jesus said it this way: By this shall all people know that
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  you are my disciples if you have love one for another.
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  And obviously that's talking about love between believers,
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  but Jesus makes it very clear.
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  That love is the distinguishing mark of genuine Christianity.
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  ~ when I love God with all of my heart,
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  soul, and mind, when I love my neighbor as myself,
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  I was walking through my neighborhood today and waved at one of my neighbors that
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  I don't know, but I know that they live right around the corner from me.
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  And I I thought to myself, God's called me to love that man,
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  to love that
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  Mm.
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  man as much as I love myself. And
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  Hm.
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  You know, when we do that, it's going to impact people,
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  it's going to to ~ help them. ~ Jesus said it a different way in
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  his high priestly prayer. ~ he he asked that God would make believers
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  unified. And he said, just like you and I are unified,
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  God. So he's talking about this perfect unity that is supernatural,
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  that is beyond human capacity.
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  And he says, that.
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  They also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you sent me.
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  So literally, the way I live in connection with other believers
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  is going to literally be a proof positive for the reality.
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  In verse 21, that's in chapter 17 of that high priestly prayer,
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  he said it this way: so that the world may know that you sent me and love them even
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  as
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  as you loved me. And so the way we live literally shows the world that that
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  Jesus has changed us. And that's so yeah,
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  I there's no way it can't make a difference one way or the other,
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  either positively
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  Mm-hmm.
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  or negatively.
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  Mm-hmm. So I guess then the question is can I be faithful in sharing
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  the gospel and live no differently than the unbelievers next door?
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  ~ is that is that formulation possible?
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  Yeah. And and I I actually feel like this is a bit of a hard
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  one because the question itself tends to emphasize the externals.
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  You know, I'm supposed to dress a certain way,
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  go certain places and don't go other places.
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  ~ the f the fact is, now I'm not saying none of that is important.
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  But Jesus seems to be focusing on the internal transformation that
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  changes everything, including the external.
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  So maybe we could say it this way:
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  could you imagine having a neighbor that is just filled with love?
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  They're joyful. They are always at peace.
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  they they are patient with you,
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  ~ they are.
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  ~ gentle in the way they behave,
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  they're they're always on good behavior,
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  they're treating people kindly,
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  they're they're living ~ with this thoughtfulness of other people they're under
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  self-control. Wouldn't wouldn't that neighbor be someone that you would want
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  to be around and and I I'm thinking rather than looking at the negative could
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  I live just like them because there is
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  There is a mindset that says I have to be like them in order to be able
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  to connect with them. I I think that Jesus is letting us know.
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  No, there is a fruit. By the way,
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  that was just going through the fruit of the Holy Spirit from
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  ~ Galatians chapter five. That's what that's what that ~ loving
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  and joyful and peaceful and gentle and good and kind,
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  all of that is just the fruit that the Holy Spirit produces in genuine,
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  spirit-filled believers.
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  And I think if we focus on those kinds of differences,
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  it will show up in our externals,
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  but
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  Mm.
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  but it's those internals that genuinely make a person an attractive person that
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  is gonna help us to be able to connect with unbelievers and teach them about
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  the Jesus that's making the difference in my own life.
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  Hmm. You know, I guess playing right off of that,
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  ~ one of the things Peter says in that passage is people may speak against
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  you as evildoers. there there seems to be opposition against Christians,
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  especially because sometimes of our lifestyle or because of our witness.
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  Why should Christians expect opposition instead of acceptance,
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  even when they do it the Bible way?
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  Yeah. ~ I heard someone talking about this yesterday in a secular realm,
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  and they were just talking about the fact that when people are bitter
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  and angry and wanting i i and you know,
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  who knows what all they want, but bitter and angry and
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  Just just having those cravings of other better.
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  when they see people who are not that way,
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  who seem to have genuine peace,
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  that seem to have a a lifestyle that brings joy,
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  ~ that seems to be in loving relationships with people,
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  because everybody wants that. then it ~ the jealousy drives them to hatred.
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  Jesus said it this way.
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  That the world hated him because his teachings,
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  his sinless life exposed their empty,
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  evil life, if if that makes sense.
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  Mm. Yeah.
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  So Jesus
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  told us to expect that. And ~ frankly,
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  our commitment to live like Jesus puts us in the crosshairs of people
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  who are filled with hate and people who are filled with anger and people
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  who are filled with jealousy and people who are filled with.
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  wanting, craving, desiring. And there's nothing we can do to change that.
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  They they hated Jesus so much they had to kill him.
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  And we've watched that with believers.
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  I I can't help but it in some part believe that that Charlie Kirk lived
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  the the life that other people saw as genuine and real and the only
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  way to silence him was to kill him.
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  Yeah. I think if you're gonna be a lover of the truth,
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  the world will hate you. it will hate you.
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  kind of spinning off a little bit,
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  changing ~ a little bit direction.
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  You had mentioned this just two questions ago.
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  You were talking about internal change versus externalities.
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  You know, there's a tension between being judgmental,
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  and Christians often get accused of being judgmental.
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  There's a tension between that.
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  and being genuinely biblically holy.
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  What's the balance of all that?
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah. Well remember,
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  We are truth givers. That's part of loving people.
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  We're gonna we love them enough to tell them the truth.
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  we we're not gonna lie to them.
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  I I watched parents lie to their children about things because they want
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  to manipulate them. And I'm I just think there there's got to be
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  a better way because w children need to be able to grow up believing their parents
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  tell them the truth. so
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  When we tell people the truth about the sin that's destroying them,
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  Hm.
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  sin is dangerous. It's it's destructive.
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  And it's not just a matter of God doesn't want us to do it.
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  It's that the wages of sin, the consequent of sin,
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  is death. Sin earns, brings death.
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  And so when we tell people the truth about their life,
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  that's going to be considered.
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  judgmental. It's it I I really am not judging them.
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  I'm just simply telling the truth from the word of God.
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  Mm.
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  And
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  and yet there is a element in which it is understood as being judgmental.
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  I I will say I think probably the attitude God wants us to carry
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  is even when someone throws judgmentalism into our face and
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  And is furious and angry at us,
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  that
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  Hm.
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  just like when Stephen was having literal stones hurled at him,
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  he fell to his knees and he prayed,
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  Lord, don't hold this sin against them.
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  And there there needs to be a genuine mercy,
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  a genuine spirit of forgiveness.
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  That rides in a believer's heart and recognizes that's not their biggest problem.
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  Their biggest problem is they need Jesus.
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  And I can't get angry at them because they've yelled at me,
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  because they've been rude to me,
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  ~ because they've called me names.
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  I I have to look beyond that and see their bigger need.
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  And I think that's what Stephen was doing.
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  He he recognized these people were killing him because of what he told them.
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  But he still wanted the best for them.
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  You know, a as you're saying all that,
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  it's kinda one of the things that's hitting me is,
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  you know, it was said about Jesus,
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  he wouldn't bruise a reed. You know,
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  he he wouldn't he hi hi when he when people just I think some of
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  the responses we see Jesus giving to the Pharisees,
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  we think he's yelling or, you know,
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  whatever. And yes, his words are strong,
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  but I don't think they were communicated in a way
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  That was hateful. I don't I don't think you could ever accuse Jesus of hate speech.
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  But people hated his speeches because they were full of truth.
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  And I think one of the reasons that people think we are judgmental
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  as Christians is because we are speaking God's truth.
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  And in fact, it is judgment against them.
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  But it's God's judgment coming out of my lips.
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  It's not my opinion. I'm just communicating the truth.
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  And so the but because you are a bearer of that message.
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  The world will hate you. I mean,
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  Jesus said this. He said this to disciples.
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  If you're gonna go out and give the same message I'm giving right now,
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  the way they're treating me, they're gonna treat you.
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  And most of those apostles were crucified or died and martyred the way Jesus was.
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  And so it's it's the one of those things that comes with the territory
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  of being a truth teller, but I love your formula.
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  I I'm convinced somebody needs to write a book about it.
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  Truth plus time plus love. And I think that time piece
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  One of the things you've talked about before is so,
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  so important because it's love and truth over time that makes a difference.
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  We don't know how much time somebody needs,
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  but when you're willing to keep giving time,
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  I mean, there is there there there can be an incredible result in the hands
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  of God with his grace. ~ now w now what is Yeah,
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  Can I interrupt you just a second?
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  yeah.
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  I
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  I I just as you're saying that,
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  a story came to my mind about someone who had a experience with a unkind unbeliever.
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  I mean, this was a person who ~ was ~ an an atheist and shouted so ~ who
• 12:47
  Yeah.
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  eventually got saved because there was some internal pain
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  and internal questioning that allowed them
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  to do an exchange Bible study with someone.
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  And I I I think
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  Mm.
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  it's just a good you were talking about the the time and truth.
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  And I really feel like the whole formula ~ is undergirded by that tool,
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  the exchange bible study, because it allows for both the time and the truth.
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  Yep. Yep. It's why I love our resour it's why I love the relational approach.
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  It's like we've said before, and I know we've said it a million times,
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  but we'll say it a million times more.
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  The
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  Yeah.
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  relationship is the platform that buys you the time.
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  And so ~ it's why it's so important.
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  Now the next question w ~ I would ask is what does it mean to identify with people
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  in their need without identifying with them in their
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  Sin. You know, my friend is depressed and he drinks.
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  So should I drink so I can help him with depression?
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  You know, that kind of thing.
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  Yeah, no, I and I I I I actually feel like sometimes people who think that
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  way are are being generous in their spirit.
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  D you know, there
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  Mm-hmm.
• 13:54
  there may be some who are on purpose trying to find a way to to live that lifestyle,
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  but I think at most people are are are trying to be generous.
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  I want to identify as much as I can.
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  But I think Jude gives us a beautiful picture.
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  Of of what that looks like. He's ~ summing up the short little book of Jude,
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  in which he is talking about contending for the faith.
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  I mean, it's this is basically being a truth teller in the face of opposition.
• 14:23
  And in Jude 23, he's he's encouraging them to reach out to others.
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  And he says, he says, save others ~ by snatching them out of the fire.
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  To others show mercy with fear,
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  hating the garments stained by the flesh.
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  And so it's it's it's like I am diving in with both feet,
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  but I'm doing so out of love to rescue,
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  not of any kind of I'm enamored by the sinfulness.
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  And in other words,
• 14:54
  Mm.
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  the he it says we we need to love the sinner,
• 14:58
  hate the sin.
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  Hm.
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  Because sin is destroying the sinner.
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  it
• 15:01
  do you know what I mean? It's it's not just that it will destroy me if
• 15:05
  I get into it, but it's destroying this sinner.
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  And I I live with the genuine hate of what's happening to them.
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  Therefore I have to hate the sin that's causing it.
• 15:15
  Hmm. You know, one of the things though that can happen is somebody just listens
• 15:18
  to your answer right there. They could they can pendulum swing and they can go,
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  Well, then it's all about my morality.
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  It's all about my holiness. It's all about the differences between me and them.
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  And some people just ignore where we should have some commonality.
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  So, and I think that comes down to this question.
• 15:35
  why is it important that our good works
• 15:38
  don't point to our own morality,
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  but ultimately point people to God's glory.
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  And and how do we make that happen?
• 15:44
  Yeah, yeah. I think the that the simple answer is it's all about him.
• 15:48
  It's all about him. But the the key I'm another kind of axiom that we live by,
• 15:55
  our my definition of relational evangelism is knowing Jesus intimately gives
• 16:01
  me the ability to show him effectively so that I can tell his gospel boldly
• 16:07
  to people.
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  So there's the three steps in my mind.
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  And the first step is to know him.
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  And anytime I see any kind of standards morality coming from me,
• 16:20
  I've missed it. I
• 16:20
  Hmm. Hmm.
• 16:22
  I was telling you about this quote that I read recently.
• 16:26
  It was ~ a man who was being praised for being good.
• 16:31
  being different from everybody else.
• 16:32
  And he says, no, no, no, no. I'm I'm simple.
• 16:35
  I'm selfish. But God's saving hand is on me.
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  That's all. I mean any anything that's different about me that is good came from
• 16:44
  God. And so we could never point to you need to be moral like I'm moral
• 16:49
  so that you can be happy like I'm happy because I can't even be moral.
• 16:54
  The only way I can be moral is if I have a rescuer.
• 16:57
  I have to have the hand of the rescuer on me and and that's it.
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  I I can't do anything without him.
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  Therefore I can't cause anyone else to want anything besides him.
• 17:09
  So let's say there's somebody listening right now who realizes,
• 17:12
  you know, I've slowly become more like the world than like Christ.
• 17:16
  Where does that person begin?
• 17:18
  Gazing into the face of Jesus.
• 17:20
  We love him because he first loved us.
• 17:23
  The only way I can ever be holy if it's his holiness living through me.
• 17:28
  The only way I can ever be kind,
• 17:31
  the only way I can ever be gentle.
• 17:33
  I mean, all of the things that God wants us to be,
• 17:37
  he provides for us in himself.
• 17:39
  Mm.
• 17:40
  And so the only way I can ever be like that him is to gaze upon him.
• 17:45
  Now, there's lots of ways that we can gaze on Jesus.
• 17:48
  And maybe one of these days we'll have to have a podcast about this concept.
• 17:52
  some is just seeing Jesus and everything.
• 17:54
  When I look at the world and I think,
• 17:57
  why are they doing this to me?
• 17:58
  I'm looking at the wrong place.
• 17:59
  Mm.
• 18:00
  If I look
• 18:01
  at Jesus and recognize He is allowing this to happen for my good,
• 18:06
  it's it
• 18:06
  Mm.
• 18:06
  it changes my whole perspective.
• 18:08
  And so I'm not just seeing the ugliness of the world,
• 18:11
  I'm seeing Jesus using even this to help me.
• 18:14
  I I think probably going to church,
• 18:17
  keeping ourselves in the assembly,
• 18:20
  listening to the preaching of the word of God,
• 18:22
  those things are critical. And over and over I hear people saying,
• 18:26
  I'm really struggling with my Christian life,
• 18:28
  and you recognize they're they're in church once a month.
• 18:31
  And and
• 18:31
  Mm.
• 18:31
  I mean I'm
• 18:32
  Once a month is better than that at all,
• 18:34
  but I'm I I believe
• 18:35
  Right.
• 18:36
  if you will put yourself under the preaching of the God's word
• 18:39
  and under the fellowship of God's people,
• 18:42
  it will change you. I mean, that's why God
• 18:42
  Yes. Yes.
• 18:45
  calls us to be together with the believers.
• 18:47
  And and
• 18:47
  Mm-hmm.
• 18:48
  first and foremost.
• 18:50
  I can't start any day without centering my life on him in his word.
• 18:56
  I I have to have him. I don't read my Bible because it's what I'm supposed to do.
• 19:02
  It literally is a lifeline for me.
• 19:05
  It's I just I I have to have that.
• 19:07
  This morning I had to get up early.
• 19:09
  My wife was in the hospital overnight and I had to get
• 19:11
  Mm.
• 19:12
  I had to get there and and pick her up early.
• 19:14
  And so I got up way earlier than I usually do,
• 19:17
  made coffee, grabbed her a cup of coffee and and took it to her.
• 19:21
  After I got home, the first thing I did was sit down and spend my time with
• 19:26
  the Lord. I can't I can't do life without that.
• 19:28
  And frankly, neither can anyone else.
• 19:29
  Hmm.
• 19:30
  We we
• 19:32
  if we're not centering our focus on him,
• 19:34
  then we're gonna be finding ourselves
• 19:37
  not just drifting into the world,
• 19:39
  but drifting into ourself. Our selfishness is what draws us into sin.
• 19:43
  And we have to protect ourselves from ourselves through our savior.
• 19:47
  Hmm. I I I love that. I love that.
• 19:50
  you know, and and the the statement you made even earlier that that goes hand
• 19:53
  in hand with that, that really still ~ is resonating with me is that holiness
• 19:58
  is not about following a list of rules,
• 20:00
  it's about becoming like him. It's like,
• 20:02
  you know, like you said, a husband and a wife,
• 20:05
  like a wife pleasing her husband.
• 20:06
  And
• 20:07
  Mm.
• 20:07
  so ~ there are things you do out of love.
• 20:10
  to be like somebody because you admire them,
• 20:12
  because they are good. they're not done out of obligation.
• 20:15
  But that being said, what are some practical ways believers can cultivate
• 20:19
  a heart that delights in that holiness,
• 20:22
  instead of merely tolerating the concept,
• 20:25
  if you know what I mean?
• 20:26
  Yes, yes. Well, I think you said it.
• 20:27
  It's not delighting in holiness.
• 20:29
  It's delighting in him. ~
• 20:31
  Mm.
• 20:31
  i i when I delight in him and I desire him to delight in me,
• 20:37
  I do z I not just I mean, he loves me.
• 20:39
  Nothing I can ever do can cause him not to love me.
• 20:42
  But I can bless him with my life.
• 20:44
  I can cause I c but the way I behave,
• 20:48
  I can cause him to smile upon me.
• 20:50
  I have
• 20:50
  Yeah.
• 20:51
  multiple grandchildren and ~ my little ones specifically.
• 20:55
  Hm.
• 20:56
  when when my grandson watches his sister ~ hurt by something
• 21:02
  and he runs over and puts his arm around her and hugs her.
• 21:06
  I I
• 21:07
  Mm.
• 21:08
  loved him way, way before that happened.
• 21:10
  But when he does that, it brings a smile to my face
• 21:14
  That is, I just am enjoying that moment.
• 21:17
  And and frankly, I that's the kind of life I want to have with Jesus.
• 21:22
  I I want him to look at me, loving others,
• 21:25
  and and just he can't help but break into a smile because I see what he's doing,
• 21:30
  and that's making me so happy.
• 21:32
  And that's that's the difference that God wants me to be.
• 21:38
  And and that literally when I'm delighting myself in him,
• 21:42
  I don't I I want to be different so that he can be pleased and smile upon me.
• 21:49
  Wow, I love that. That that is so convicting.
• 21:52
  Yeah. we may we do. We we you know,
• 21:55
  people think holiness is about how you look.
• 21:57
  It's not. It's about how you are.
• 21:59
  And that really comes out in your love towards God and your love towards people.
• 22:02
  And what we do as Christians, we say all the right things and we wear
• 22:06
  all the right clothes and you know,
• 22:08
  we have all the right Bibles and
• 22:10
  All that kind of stuff. But then we treat our brothers in Christ with disdain
• 22:14
  and we hurt them and we give up on them and you know,
• 22:17
  we do all these things and it's so important to love and delight Jesus
• 22:22
  by loving the way he loved. He loved Judas to the very end.
• 22:26
  And ~ I'm still amazed by that verse in John.
• 22:28
  so if you could leave our listeners with one challenge this week from first Peter
• 22:33
  two, eleven to twelve.
• 22:34
  What would it be? That's a hard one,
• 22:35
  but what would it be? Just one.
• 22:37
  Well I I'm
• 22:40
  I'm actually gonna quote something in the book of John to be able
• 22:44
  to answer the question. So it's you know,
• 22:47
  it it in this discussion in which Jesus calls us to be different.
• 22:51
  I I have to acknowledge I can't
• 22:54
  Mm.
• 22:54
  do that. I am not good enough.
• 22:56
  I
• 22:56
  Hm.
• 22:57
  I I I will fail. Jesus said
• 22:59
  I am the vine, you are the branches.
• 23:02
  Whoever abides in me and I in him,
• 23:04
  he it is that bears much fruit.
• 23:07
  For without me, you can do nothing.
• 23:10
  And if if I am going to live a holy life,
• 23:13
  if I am going to live a life that causes Jesus to smile,
• 23:17
  I'm only going to be able to do it with him.
• 23:19
  And so I
• 23:21
  That phrase, I am the vine, you are the branches.
• 23:24
  I s I do it this way in my mind because I'm talking to him.
• 23:28
  Lord, I'm the branch, you're the vine.
• 23:30
  ~ you know, you you ~ need to draw me close,
• 23:34
  teach me to abide, because apart from you,
• 23:37
  I can do nothing. And so that
• 23:39
  Mm-hmm.
• 23:40
  that's the key. This is not about you and me being better than.
• 23:44
  anybody else. I'm I'm living different only because my focal point is
• 23:48
  him and he's calling me to a different life.
• 23:52
  And and and it just so happens that it impacts the people around me.
• 23:56
  Hmm. I love that. ~ I love that so much.
• 23:58
  you know, this is a this this was a very convicting is such a helpful
• 24:02
  way to talk about holiness and and takes it past the externalities
• 24:06
  to the harder stuff. And you see that in in the Sermon on the Mount,
• 24:09
  Jesus saying it's not about this,
• 24:12
  it's about this, you know, and so ~ I I just love the way
• 24:16
  The letter of
• 24:16
  the law is actually pretty easy.
• 24:18
  I mean, just
• 24:19
  Yes.
• 24:19
  tell me, tell me what to do. Let me check my list.
• 24:22
  It's it's the spirit of the law that's hard.
• 24:25
  Well and and the letter of the law i is an oasis i if you're looking
• 24:29
  for performance and you're gonna brag about it.
• 24:32
  I mean it i it it is a great target rich environment.
• 24:35
  But when you're talking about the internalities,
• 24:37
  nobody sees that and there's nothing to brag about.
• 24:40
  And you're pointing to God and it's a work of grace and has you know,
• 24:43
  you have to cooperate with God,
• 24:45
  but really you can't do it by yourself and you know,
• 24:47
  Paul talks about that how he doesn't do what he wants to do and but he
• 24:51
  What he wants to do, he doesn't do.
• 24:52
  And and so w what you're talking about is is that whole heart of what Jesus
• 24:56
  was getting at. And ~ it's it it's resonating with me.
• 24:59
  It's can there are things that it's convicting me about.
• 25:02
  So I appreciate that. ~ well to those of you listening,
• 25:04
  thank you so much for sticking with us.
• 25:06
  And ~ I I just pray that this would sink deep in your hearts,
• 25:11
  that it would make a difference in your evangelism and in your life as a believer.
• 25:15
  And as we've always said, pray with us.
• 25:17
  This is something we beg you to do.
• 25:18
  Pray with us as we pray to the Lord of the harvest that he would send forth
• 25:22
  laborers. Because the harvest is plenteous.
• 25:25
  There are so many people that are in need.
• 25:27
  But the laborers are few. And ~ don't sit on the sidelines with
• 25:32
  the most wonderful message and news in the whole world and keep it to yourself.
• 25:37
  Get out there and take risks for the sake of the gospel.
• 25:40
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• 25:42
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• 25:46
  We love you guys. We'll see you next week.