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'More Than Happy': Insights from Amish Parenting · Other Peoples Parenting

0:00
Hello, everybody.
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Welcome back to another episode of Other People's Parenting, where we read parenting books and review them for you.
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I'm Skylar Hurwitz, amateur parent, and this is my mom, Karen Quinn, New York Times best selling author and founder of Habit coach and Testing mom.
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Hello, mom.
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Hi, Skylar.
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We match.
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I know.
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I just realized that.
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And we.
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We didn't even plan it.
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We didn't even plan it because our minds.
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We have this mind meld going.
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We do.
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We are so simpatico.
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We really are.
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Two bodies, one mind.
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I.
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No.
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We match so beautifully.
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In fact, I should lend you this top.
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Such complimentary colors.
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I could wear it with those pants.
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Let me guess, you got that in Japan.
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I did.
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How did you know?
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I just know.
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I know what your Japanese staples are.
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Yeah, I got it in Japan last year.
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Uh huh.
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Uh huh.
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Yeah.
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I feel like I'm wearing a bib.
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But anyway, that's what it is.
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A very, very chic bib.
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It's beautiful embroidered.
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I know some might say.
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Thank you.
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Thank you.
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Yeah.
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Today is gonna be fun.
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We're.
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We have covered tradwives in many forms throughout this season, but these ladies are the real deal.
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We are going to cover More Than Happy, an Amish guide to parenting.
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Is that.
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Is that what this is?
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It's called More Than Happy.
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The Wisdom of Amish Parenting.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So the girls on Instagram have nothing on these broads?
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Oh, no, these are real.
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These are real people who live like it's the 1800s.
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Yeah.
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So when we think about yesteryear, and it was like the big crazy thing was the woman, the main character, lives in the 1850s.
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Like it's the 1850s.
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No, they do this every day.
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Every day.
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This is how they live.
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Yes, yes, yes.
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I really liked this book.
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Me too.
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It has a Christian bent because the author, I believe, is a churchgoing lady.
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Okay.
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Right.
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Didn't you get that sense?
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Well, I guess.
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I mean, she.
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She really liked this method of parenting, or.
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Not that it's a method.
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It's not a method.
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Yeah.
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It's a lifestyle.
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It's.
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Yeah.
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A lot of their culture does really, like, revolve around faith.
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Oh.
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Yeah.
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So that's like a big, highly emphasized theme of this kind of parenting.
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And, you know, it's funny, typically in situations like that, I am wary, but it actually seemed very sweet what was happening in this book.
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Oh, yeah, yeah, it does.
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It's so funny because the author and I took this line right out of the book.
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Serena Miller, in her bio, has written several quote, unquote Clean Amish romance novels.
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And I'm thinking, is there such a thing as a dirty Amish?
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I'm sure there are.
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Romance novel.
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A dirty one.
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Oh, of course there.
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I mean, there's filthy novels about anything.
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Smutty books about Amish romance.
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No, just Amish romance in general is clean by definition.
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It's so pure.
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It is very pure.
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Yes, okay, but.
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So when she was researching these clean novels, she began to notice how happy and well mannered Amish children were.
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And even though they had no modern toys or conveniences, the kids were joyful and calm and respectable and respectful.
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And they were able to.
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Respectful kids.
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They were respectful.
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They had jobs.
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They were important families.
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Later, they're respectable when they grow up.
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But they start out when they grow.
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Up to be 11.
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Yes, well, that is true because they, they do end school very early.
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But anyway, they.
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They could whip up meals, they cared for their siblings, they could drive buggies before most of us would even allow our kids to walk to school.
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Wow.
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And one of her friends who worked in the with the Amish regularly said she was convinced that the Amish have the happiest children in the world.
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That's what she'd heard.
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And she began asking Amish parents, well, what were they doing to raise kids to be like this?
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And she wondered if non Amish like us could use some of those techniques.
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She called us English, but spelled weird.
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Did she spell it weird?
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I think there was an S, C H at the end.
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Oh yeah.
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And I was like englisk English.
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Well, they do call us the English.
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Yeah, like the non Amish are the English and we're the English.
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I don't know.
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I guess because we speak English or I don't.
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Yeah.
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So they actually speak two languages initially three.
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You're right.
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You're right.
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What English?
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Pennsylvania Dutch and German.
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And German later.
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Yes, yes, exactly.
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So the book explores the day to day practices and cultural influences that make Amish children so mature and well adjusted.
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And then they show you how to apply Amish principles to raising your own kids.
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If you want to use some of these ideas, you don't have to put your kids in bonnets if you don't want.
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Oh, though cute.
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They are cute.
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But yeah, the babies would be cute with bonnets.
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Eleni has a bonnet.
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I know.
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She looks so cute when she wears it.
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I love it.
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And Paul Stutzman is her co author and he was born in an Amish into an Amish family and he lives in Amish country still.
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But he's a Mennonite, which is very much like being Amish, only it's less strict.
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It's sort of like in Judaism, there are Hasidic people and then there are Orthodox people and there are Reformed people, and then there are reformed people.
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So a Mennonite is basically an Orthodox.
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Guy, not a reformed.
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Not.
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No, not a reformed and not a Hasidic.
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Right, so they're less strict and they can use technology.
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But stricter than the Reformed.
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Yes, yes.
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But they could go to college, they can wear brighter clothing, and you can grow up Amish and then choose to.
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Become a Mennonite, apparently, and not be shunned.
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Right, Big distinction.
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Exactly.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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All right, so I'll start.
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But you can, you can pick it.
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Up at any macro meeting.
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Okay, so, well, what the, what the author did at the beginning is she got together with a bunch of Amish moms and she wanted to find out, well, how do you raise your kids?
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This is when she's just looking for, like, you know, what kind of advice they have.
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Well, some of it sounded like what you do.
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I mean, mine were all fed on demand.
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Well, you don't do that.
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You schedule.
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Well, when she was little.
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I did.
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Yeah.
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I was not trying to put that girl on a schedule.
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But eventually.
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Yeah.
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Now she thought she's on a schedule.
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She's basically an adult.
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Right.
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She's an adult baby.
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Okay.
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Most mothers mash food and they make their own baby food.
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They keep their baby's beds in the parents bedroom to make it easier to nurse at night.
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I did that too.
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None of them would sleep train their child.
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They would all let the child cry it out, which of course you did.
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They would not let the child cry it out.
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But they did.
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I say would not.
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Yeah.
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The reasoning for that is they're like, listen, like so many people are around, there's just no reason to.
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Because people don't parent alone.
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That's true.
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You really have a village.
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You have the village.
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I mean, listen, if you've got 12 kids, call one of the older kids.
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Oh, that's true.
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But only mom can nurse the baby.
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Yeah.
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I guess they're probably not pumping.
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Yeah.
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But anyway.
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But the.
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Yeah, but they would not sleep train so that, that doesn't happen.
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They don't ever put their child in a separate room even for their naps.
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Their babies are just used to being around lots of people all the time.
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Yeah.
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And young mothers are seldom left on their own.
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They always have help.
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Babies are always being held by somebody and they're constantly in the middle of everything.
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So they just pass the baby around, and the children pick up the baby.
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It's, yeah, me at the nail salon.
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Yeah, exactly.
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And the author says that Amish parenting is not a method.
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It's just a culmination of beliefs held by the community.
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The children are born into a community that is structured to make family central.
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Yes.
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Okay, so do you want to start about talk about marriage?
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Sure.
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The author talks a lot about the husband of an Amish woman that she knows.
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And his big dreams and ambitions have mostly to do with having family security.
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So finding a way to make a living but not leave their property.
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Because some Amish men do carpentry, and some of them go, I guess, off campus.
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And some Amish women, before they have children, do as well.
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But the ultimate goal is, how can I create a more comfortable life, make more money, but still have as much time with my family and around my family as possible?
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So the goal is meaningful work that puts him in close daily contact with his wife and kids.
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And the author then continues to go on and describe that at an Amish wedding, the bridal couple are up before dawn, which is correct or, you know, accurate for non Amish people, but they're helping to set up, and
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then they stay late to clean up.
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Right.
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Not like your wedding.
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No, not like my wedding.
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I was in hair and makeup at 4:00 in the morning.
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I was not undoing folding chairs.
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Right.
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But it's interesting.
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I mean, it really is.
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The emphasis is on the community.
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You know, the wedding happens in the morning in a barn.
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Three ministers take turns preaching for about three hours in German.
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All the kids are there scampering around.
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The bride and the groom are in the front row.
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And the bride actually wears a dark dress with a white apron.
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There is no bouquet.
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There is no exchange of rings.
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There's a silent prayer.
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And the wedding ceremony itself takes about three minutes.
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There are no pictures to pose for.
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And the gifts that the couples receive are very practical.
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So much food is put together for this wedding, and that's a big part of the preparation, too.
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I mean, hundreds of people attend Amish weddings, and a big question before the wedding is, how many chickens am I gonna have to butcher before this wedding?
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Which.
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How wholesome.
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Commenter.
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Instead of talking about what a beautiful bride she is, what a handsome husband she is, comments are often centered around like, oh, she's gonna make such a good.
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She's gonna keep such a beautiful, comfortable home, you know, and what a hard worker he is.
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So they emphasize very different things than we do in our culture?
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Well, the values are very different.
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I mean, the Amish, you know, they.
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They don't ever emphasize outward beauty.
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Fashion is not important.
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They sew their own clothes.
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It's all about being clean and modest and obedient to God.
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It's similar.
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Yeah, it's similar.
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Nobody's trying to be better than anybody else.
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It's collective, not the individual.
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Exactly, exactly.
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And during the wedding, the preacher will say that divorce is not an option.
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And the author said at this particular wedding she went to, he said it three times.
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And they are actually less than 1% of Amish ever get divorced.
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Wow.
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That's amazing.
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It's very low.
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If a husband acts badly towards his wife, the church leaders will take him to task.
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If he does not improve, they'll use shunning to encourage change.
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Amish women face disapproval in the community if they're deficient in caring for their husband or their children.
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And the Amish churches go to great lengths to keep troubled marriages together, you know, because it is for life.
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So.
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Yeah.
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And they mean it.
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Yeah.
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They're like, this is a covenant with God, not just the state in which you reside.
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Exactly.
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And the Amish couples, they work really hard at trying to forgive each other.
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They know they're committed for life and honoring commitments is a big part of the culture.
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And the kids feel very secure because they know their parents are going to keep their promises and they're committed to providing a very stable life for them.
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And I'll talk about this because it relates to what I am, which is a grandparent.
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The role of extended families.
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So grandparents loom very large in the life of an Amish raised child.
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Most Amish homes have what the English would call a mother in law apartment attached to their house.
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Grandparents are never sent to nursing homes.
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The extended family always takes care of them.
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They don't retire, though.
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They just keep working for as long as they can.
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They'll help the family with farming.
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Grandmothers help with cooking and childcare.
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Amish children are taught to respect their grandparents.
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They have very close bonds.
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And the author talks about how important it is to live close to your extended family.
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Possible.
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And if you can, you know, try to find a kind, decent neighbor to step in as your surrogate grandparent, you know, which is so sweet.
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It's really good for little kids to be around older people, I think, just in general.
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And it's good for older people to be around little kids because for me it is anyway.
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I love little kids.
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Yeah.
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When I think about Karen Quinn and testing Mom.
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The first thing that stands out is their effectiveness in truly enhancing a child's education.
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You see, Karen is a national expert on gifted and talented testing, and she's the ultimate authority on helping kids get into top schools.
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I know this firsthand because she helped two out of my three kids get into the best schools in New York City.
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And my youngest child is eight months.
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I'm sure she will help her as well.
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What really makes Testing Moms special is that they're not just about academics.
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They're focused on the social and emotional development of children.
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It's about nurturing the whole child and giving them a strong foundation in academics and confidence and life skills.
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Her insights and resources have made a lasting impact on my family and countless others.
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I am forever indebted to Karen Quinn and Testing mom.
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And you should have no hesitation about trying out their services.
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Eating together is another big thing.
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They emphasize eating together as a family.
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The author notes that she never saw Amish children complain about not liking the food served to them because they admit that they do have food preferences, but it wouldn't keep them from eating what was placed in front of
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them.
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So, like, respect to whoever was able to teach them that the Amish raise a lot of their own food and kids help with that.
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So they're involved in the food preparation.
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They're also more likely to eat the food that's offered.
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They might pick their fruit and at a fruit orchard or go shopping at a farmer's market for food that they'll later be served.
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So I think that's cool.
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Including your children in the selection of what you eat.
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Yeah, I think they are more likely to eat it without issue if they feel like, oh, totally.
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Yeah.
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As soon.
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As soon as my daughter is old enough to, like, really understand grocery shop.
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I love a grocery store.
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Right.
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I love a grocery store as much as I love sacks.
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Oh, okay.
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And a farmer's market.
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Thrilling.
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Yeah, I love farmer's markets.
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I think those are great, too.
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Yeah.
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They don't eat junk food.
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They don't snack because they're always working.
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They're always working.
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They're doing their chores.
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That's right.
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Anyway.
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And the Amish don't have smartphones or social media, which really reduces the emotional pressures of growing up.
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Probably saves you a lot of grief.
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I'm sure.
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You know, the women and the teens don't compare themselves to social media influencers or models or anything like that.
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And the Amish women get their advice from either other women face to face or by reading.
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There's a Magazine.
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That's the Amish magazine called Family Life.
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Yeah, sure.
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It's a paper magazine and they all read it.
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They have very active social lives.
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They do all day worship and lunch every other Sunday.
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There are teas or quiltings or fundraising dinners to attend.
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When they go shopping, they don't go alone since they can't drive.
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Yeah.
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They have to hire the English to drive them.
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Yeah.
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So it's a lot of gals in a van.
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Exactly.
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And they bring food and share it with each other.
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It's a whole thing.
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Yeah.
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When they do that.
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And many women will help their husbands with farming and the animals, and the men will help cook if they know how.
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Amish husbands and wives do whatever they need to to care for the family.
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Yes.
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They make all the big financial decisions together.
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And while men are seen as the spiritual head of the family, women are seen as, you know, they're highly respected because they're the mother of the children.
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Yeah.
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So they each have their place.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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Okay.
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Working moms.
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A man's value in Amish culture is based on whether or not he's a hard and honest worker who does the best job he can to provide for his family, which is a biblical thing.
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Yeah.
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The strong work ethic of men combined with the frugality of the Amish life means women can choose to stay home and raise their children.
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Many still do create home businesses to help earn income to support the family.
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Because when you've got that many kids, you got it.
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Somebody's gotta make money.
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Also, they don't accept welfare.
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No, they don't.
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They don't.
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So that's an interesting thing about their communities.
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They don't rely on the government for anything, which we'll get into more later, like with education and things like that.
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In general, women typically don't work outside of the home after they have children, because mothering is such a highly respected job in the Amish community.
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Not like it is here, unfortunately.
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Like, if you're a stay at home mom in the Amish world, they're like, oh, you've got a good girl, good job.
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That's.
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That's the goal.
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That's what everybody wants.
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Yeah.
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No one's judging you.
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No one's like, but what are you?
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It's like, I don't know, a lizard.
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Leave me alone.
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Are you satisfied?
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Are you fulfilled?
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Yeah.
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It's like, yes, girl, I'm chilling.
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One reason that the Amish live off of the electrical grid and don't have cars is because it saves money, which.
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Listen, every.
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Every Month.
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I see my Con Ed bill.
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I'm like, I.
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I'm.
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I'm gonna be Amish now.
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Well, you know, it would be cheaper to die.
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Yeah.
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Electricity is important.
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And.
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And, you know, and it would be hard to live off the electrical grid.
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I mean, my God, air conditioning, you know, gas or no gas is different than electric.
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But.
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But maybe an electric stove or a microwave.
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Microwave.
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I mean, you.
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You know, we need that electric curling iron.
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Everything we use.
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I mean, of course, you know, all of our screens, which they don't have.
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Yeah.
18:56
So they don't.
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They don't have to pay for all that stuff, and they don't pay for cars, and they just keep their life very inexpensive.
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Yeah.
19:04
And that they can stay home.
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That's how you get to stay home.
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It's just.
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And if everyone around you is doing it, and that's the lifestyle.
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It's easy.
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There's no keeping up with anybody because everybody is taking their time.
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Right.
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Except the Mennonites.
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Who.
19:20
Except the Mennonites.
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Right.
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But we'll get to that.
19:23
Okay.
19:23
We'll get to that.
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Amish homes are very peaceful because, again, no one's in a hurry and.
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Oh, something about a harried schedule.
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I can't.
19:35
I don't know sure what that sentence is.
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Oh, it says.
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Well, that it's peaceful.
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Oh.
19:43
Oh, she.
19:43
She said it's.
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They're very peaceful compared to the way the author says her own life.
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When she was a working mother, she had a harried schedule when she was bringing her kids up.
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That's what.
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That's what she said.
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She talks about being invited into the Amish people's homes.
20:00
More and more people show up.
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Everyone brings food, chairs, butter, dessert.
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So it's sort of like an open door policy in this community.
20:09
For the most part.
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There's a very strong feeling of connectedness and close fellowship with friends and family, because the whole culture and community is designed around spending time together and helping each other.
20:22
It's a very intentional kind of connectedness that they participate in.
20:27
Yes.
20:27
Yes.
20:27
They're surrounded by their friends and neighbors all the time.
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They work in each other's homes.
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They're as familiar with their friends kitchens than they are as they are with their own, which is what a beautiful thing.
20:37
You leave your door open and your friends come over and they start cooking.
20:40
Sounds amazing.
20:41
Or they help themselves to whatever you made last night.
20:44
Yeah.
20:44
Love that.
20:45
Well, it's very communal.
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Yeah.
20:48
They say that children feel very secure because they live in families with mothers and fathers and extended family.
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Nearby.
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So they just grow up surrounded by people close to them who care about their wellbeing and welfare, which is really nice.
21:03
And again, another thing, they're not paying for childcare.
21:07
Right, Right.
21:08
There's.
21:08
Everybody lives there and helps take care of each other's kids.
21:11
Yeah.
21:13
It says here that they stay in touch with each other through letters.
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Letter writing is a form of recreation.
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And school age girls love getting stationary as a gift.
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There's no tv, so they get stationary and they write letters.
21:27
And it reminded me when I was a little girl how much I used to love to go shopping at the stationery store and I could get stationery and I would write letters.
21:37
Yeah, I did.
21:38
You know, that was a big thing.
21:40
I know.
21:40
I loved my Paul Frank stationery.
21:43
Oh, yeah.
21:43
And my Lisa Frank stationery.
21:45
You know, like the rainbow dolphins.
21:47
But did you write letters on it?
21:48
Yeah, I did.
21:49
I wrote you letters.
21:50
Okay.
21:50
When you went to camp.
21:52
Yeah.
21:52
To come pick me up from camp.
21:53
I remember those letters.
21:55
Okay.
21:56
I'm too hot.
21:58
Okay.
21:58
Okay.
21:59
The concept of UF geva.
22:02
Yes.
22:03
And she says, the author says that's behind all the deep contentment in the Amish community.
22:09
So tell us what ufgeba is.
22:12
Ufgeba means that you are less important than others.
22:17
Right.
22:17
Well, Amish children are taught from an early age that their needs and wants are important, but not more important.
22:24
More being the operative word than those of family, church, or community.
22:27
So it means emphasizing the importance of the group over the person, which is a theme in Amish life.
22:34
Right, Right.
22:35
Amish suicide rate is less than half the national average.
22:39
They have a healthier and more satisfied view of their bodies than English teens.
22:45
Anorexia and bulimia are non existent, which goes to show it is a total nurture situation.
22:54
It is circumstantial.
22:56
They don't worry about self image because their focus is outward and much more about being thoughtful and helpful for everybody around them than what their own personal dissatisfactions are.
23:07
There's a concept called galescent height or Jellesenheit.
23:13
I don't know if it's gulescent.
23:15
I don't either.
23:16
I'm sure we're.
23:17
I'm sure we're terrible.
23:18
We're butchering.
23:19
This idea is at the center of Amish life.
23:22
So it means to give up your will to God.
23:25
Let it be.
23:26
When bad things happen, it just helps you accept that life comes at you fast.
23:32
Right.
23:32
And leave it to God.
23:34
You know, just let it be.
23:35
God will take care of.
23:36
Yes, yes.
23:38
And there's another concept called Hakmut, the idea of haughtiness, arrogance and pride, which is you don't want to be labeled as Hockmut in the Amish community.
23:49
That's like as bad as it gets, right?
23:52
And these principles are drilled into kids and it seems to make them happier because they're, you know, they don't have to worry about them.
24:02
They don't put themselves first and they don't, you know, have a big swelled head about themselves or any of that.
24:07
Big swelled head.
24:09
What?
24:09
Don't, don't you call.
24:11
Don't you use that expression anymore?
24:12
We call everybody a narcissist now.
24:14
Oh, we don't use the big swelled head, huh?
24:19
No, just narcissist.
24:20
Narcissist.
24:21
That two year old absolute narcissist.
24:24
Okay.
24:25
The Amish speak Pennsylvania Dutch, which some people mistake for German, but it's not the German that people speak in Germany.
24:32
It's what Amish children speak until they're about six.
24:35
Then they learn English and their third language is formal German, which kind of reminds me of like in Borough Park.
24:41
In some parts of Borough park, there are some kids that just grow up speaking Yiddish.
24:45
And then eventually, you know, if they go to a secular school, which most of the kids in Borough park don't really, but they might learn English then.
24:53
Right?
24:53
And that's how they do here.
24:55
That's right.
24:57
And also their heritage, they are always surrounded by their own community.
25:03
And I think people do think, oh, the Amish, they stay together.
25:07
You know, they're very insular and they are.
25:10
But what they.
25:11
She talks about the idea that they really all know where they came from, they know who they belong to, and they know their roots going back several generations.
25:23
Present day Amish all come from about 200 original immigrants who came to the United States.
25:29
They know who these people are, and they don't move as individual families, but always in big groups.
25:36
That way they can sustain a church wherever they go.
25:39
So they try not to let their church.
25:42
They're Catholic at 200.
25:43
200.
25:43
Yeah.
25:44
Which actually is.
25:45
I think I might have read this in a Malcolm Gladwell book or somewhere else, but I've.
25:49
I've read that groups of about 200 people is really the sweet spot when it comes to maintaining a healthy community.
25:57
Any larger than that, the likelihood of dissent grows exponentially.
26:02
Oh, I didn't know that.
26:03
Yeah.
26:04
And that's enough people to sustain and keep a community going.
26:07
But any more than that, and there's like a tipping point.
26:09
Oh, okay.
26:10
Where it stops being Constructive, right?
26:13
Well, they say that since their population doubles every 20 years or so, that's when they create a new settlement.
26:21
And so they'll leave and start a new settlement somewhere nearby, somewhere not too far away.
26:28
But yeah.
26:29
So that's what they do.
26:30
Yeah.
26:30
Okay.
26:32
And they take care of each other in times of need.
26:35
They have a mutual aid fund and a crippled children's fund and the Amish Helping Fund because, as you mentioned earlier, they don't take any government support in any way.
26:48
So they have bake sales and auctions to raise money to help each other.
26:52
They have barn raisings.
26:53
When a farmer's sick, the neighbors pitch in and plow the fields.
26:58
If a family falls on hard times, the church steps in to help.
27:02
The Amish helping fund has $100 million in it.
27:06
It can be used by couples to buy a house at a reduced mortgage rate.
27:10
And I'm sure their houses are not expensive.
27:12
I dare to could get an Amish mortgage rate.
27:16
Wouldn't that be nice?
27:17
In this day, you cannot.
27:21
You're not Amish.
27:22
But if you were, you could.
27:24
And also, they.
27:25
They.
27:25
This fund is used to help defray medical costs, and it all comes from donations.
27:31
And an Amish child will never go to foster care.
27:34
There's always someone to take them, and they're always ready to lend a helping hand to neighbors and friends who are.
27:41
Even those who are not Amish, but who live near them.
27:44
Yeah.
27:44
Yeah.
27:45
They're very giving people.
27:46
Yeah.
27:47
Yeah.
27:48
Which is nice.
27:50
My feeling about Testing mom is that there is no investment too great to make into your child's well being, their sense of security, their sense of knowledge, their sense of achievement and feeling secure about what they know, especially
28:09
when it comes to doing well in school.
28:13
I would say that Testing mom is not only the most worthwhile investment I've made into my daughter's education thus far, it's really so affordable, it provided me with literally what seemed like an infinite amount of options.
28:33
So if you signed on for all these apps individually, you would pay much, much more.
28:41
So let's talk about their education.
28:44
Yes.
28:44
So Amish formal education ends in eighth grade.
28:49
Even some teachers in Amish schools only have an 8th grade education.
28:55
Mennonites, though, can go to high school and to college if they want to.
28:59
But when they leave school, they have a grasp of reading, writing, math, and geography.
29:06
But the Amish say that they never stop learning, and so they consider everything they do to be learned learning.
29:12
So after leaving school, they're going to train for a specialty like animal care, carpentry masonry, plumbing, blacksmithing.
29:20
It's like a vocational school, which, honestly, when our AI overlords take over.
29:26
Yeah, listen, AI can't plumb your house.
29:29
I wouldn't think so.
29:30
AI can't carpentry your life or.
29:33
Or put, you know, or.
29:35
Or, like, do the blacksmithing for your.
29:38
You need a blacksmith.
29:39
You know, you gotta, like, have, like,.
29:41
An anvil and the.
29:42
You gotta, like, you know.
29:43
Yeah.
29:44
Be a welder.
29:45
And you know what AI can't do yet?
29:46
Weld.
29:47
Weld.
29:48
Well, maybe eventually it will be able to.
29:50
The robots might be able to.
29:51
But anyway.
29:52
But they do all that.
29:54
You're safe for now.
29:55
That's right.
29:56
But the Amish, their kids learn how to do all of those things because they're needed in the community.
30:01
They have horses.
30:02
Yeah.
30:02
They need a blacksmith.
30:03
They need a blacksmith.
30:04
That's right.
30:05
Right.
30:05
So their horses need shoes.
30:06
That's right.
30:07
That's right.
30:08
So anyway, the parents are very deeply involved in their children's learning.
30:12
The schools are built by the fathers in the community, the teachers hired from money donated by the community.
30:19
And it's usually an unmarried female teacher who still lives at home with her family.
30:24
Teaches, kind of like on Little House on the Prairie.
30:28
Or possibly a married woman who hasn't.
30:30
Had a child yet.
30:31
Crazy that Kyle Richards was on that show.
30:33
What?
30:33
Little House on the.
30:34
Yeah.
30:34
Wasn't she?
30:35
Oh, yeah, she was.
30:36
She was the baby in the basket in the drawer.
30:38
Was she?
30:39
I don't know.
30:39
I know she was on the show.
30:41
She was on Little House in the Prairie.
30:42
Yeah.
30:43
That was like her first job.
30:44
Oh, is that right?
30:45
Bringing it back to the Housewives.
30:47
Every time I mention the Housewives, that's so funny.
30:50
They're just.
30:50
Their reach is so.
30:51
So far.
30:52
It really is.
30:53
That's true.
30:54
That was Kai, if you don't know, Kyle Richards is on Beverly Hills.
30:58
Beverly Hills Housewives, an excellent franchise.
31:00
Yes.
31:01
Okay.
31:02
Schools don't accept government money, so they don't have to follow state standards in terms of what they teach.
31:08
They don't assign homework because that would interfere with family time.
31:13
The role of the school is to prepare the child for the roles they're going to be fulfilling in the Amish community.
31:21
Not to go off to college.
31:23
Not the secular world.
31:24
Exactly.
31:25
So there are cases of Amish children leaving the Amish church to get more education and learning.
31:32
But often you would become a Mennonite in order to do that.
31:36
And if they do become a Mennonite, that's fine.
31:39
They're not going to be rejected by Their people, the English parents, view education as something that happens in the classroom, whereas the Amish parents view education as nearly everything that happens in a child's life.
31:52
So teaching a child to help a neighbor, that's part of their education.
31:56
Children are included in every aspect of Amish life.
32:00
They're taken everywhere with their parents.
32:02
So they learn.
32:03
Yeah.
32:04
So I like that.
32:05
Yeah.
32:05
When they go to.
32:06
When there's a funeral, they go.
32:09
When someone needs to be cared for, the sick and dying or sitting up with the bereaved, the children are there like a Shiva.
32:19
Yeah.
32:19
They bring the.
32:20
They bring the children so they learn about death.
32:23
When an Amish man runs his.
32:25
A.
32:26
A farm stand, he brings his kids with them, and they.
32:28
They help at the farm stand.
32:32
They're encouraged to do apprenticeships by.
32:34
At the age of 14 so they can learn a business and develop a marketable skill.
32:39
And they have a strong work ethic and good common sense that helps them in business.
32:44
The Amish look for validation and fulfilling, a passion in the work they choose to do.
32:50
So just like everybody else, they're.
32:52
They're.
32:52
They're kind of going for the thing that they're most interested in, but at the same time, the job is seen as a way to pay the bills.
33:00
Family, community, and faith is the most important.
33:02
Yes.
33:03
Yes.
33:03
Faith being the central pillar.
33:06
Right.
33:07
Okay.
33:07
You Amish believe that a child raised with no rules is like a car careening down a road with no guardrails.
33:13
And kids really need boundaries.
33:16
So the Amish give their kids strict rules and structure, assign chores, meals, prayer.
33:23
That's sort of the structure of their day.
33:26
They're taught unwritten rules about being kind and thoughtful to others and respectful of other children, their sibling, parents, people.
33:35
Since they are taught that their needs are not more important than the collective, they're willing to compromise.
33:41
You know, they learn that early, and they practice it all the time.
33:45
One Amish father says his dream for his children is to grow up to be people of value and to be that the child must learn that there are consequences to action.
33:53
So he disciplines his children because he loves them and wants this for them.
33:57
And again, I think that discipline is so valuable when you can sort of help your child understand what it's for.
34:03
You know, just sort of blanket discipline.
34:05
Because you're frustrated that your child's behavior is not at what they practice.
34:09
Right.
34:10
You know?
34:10
Right.
34:10
And they do a lot of modeling in the Amish community.
34:13
They really show their children what they expect of them by the way they live their lives every day.
34:19
Yeah, exactly.
34:21
And they teach kids to wait for things.
34:23
That's actually built into the Amish culture.
34:27
So an Amish parent will give the child a treat because they've already been quiet and content not to be quiet and content.
34:37
So they don't use it as a bribe.
34:39
They're saying, oh, you just were so quiet and patient while I was doing this.
34:44
Well, I was churning the butter for Jebediah.
34:48
That's right.
34:49
So here's a nice little treat for you for being so good.
34:52
And so they reward their kids for self discipline.
34:55
And kids know there's not going to be a treat if they whine or complain.
35:00
There's just not going to be any reward for that.
35:02
Being Amish takes a lot of self discipline, especially in giving things up for the greater good.
35:08
So Amish children are well loved, but they also know early on that they're not going to be the center of the.
35:14
Of the universe.
35:16
Healthy for any child to learn.
35:18
Absolutely.
35:19
Oh, my God.
35:20
A child who thinks they're the center of the universe, that is.
35:23
That is a.
35:23
That's a future criminal that.
35:24
Well, that's hard.
35:27
Okay.
35:27
I mean, it's hard to teach them that, but you have to teach them that.
35:30
Yeah.
35:30
So, okay.
35:32
Teaching respect, respect for others, it's just built into Amish life.
35:38
When you go to a potluck, the grandparents are given precedence in the food line.
35:43
Amish women hold back and allow men to go first in the food line.
35:47
Huh.
35:48
That's interesting.
35:49
Huh?
35:49
Huh.
35:50
Okay.
35:52
That author calls this an example of quiet thoughtfulness and that this is the.
35:58
Women who are expected to be quiet and thoughtful.
36:00
Neither here nor there.
36:01
Okay.
36:02
So the women are quiet and thoughtful and let their men go first, but they also let the guests go first, which is nice.
36:08
Respect is modeled in visible and structured ways.
36:12
You know, like you were talking about.
36:13
When women talk to their husbands, it's always with respect.
36:17
They don't criticize their husband in front of their children because they want their children to respect their fathers.
36:22
They don't compare their kids to each other.
36:25
They don't talk to their kids in sarcastic or impatient tones.
36:30
They don't interrupt each other.
36:31
They try to model good behavior, essentially, is what they do.
36:36
And, you know, they.
36:38
They ponder what people say.
36:41
They take their time to respond, and they.
36:43
They weigh their words.
36:47
But the author says she's rarely seen a raised voice in an Amish home.
36:52
They.
36:52
They don't threaten kids with punishment.
36:54
They.
36:55
Whereas we, the English offer lots of warnings, but we often don't follow through.
37:02
That's Right.
37:03
Most Amish people will tell you that they do spank their kids if it's necessary, but they don't spank in anger.
37:09
The author talked about having a paddle in her house, and the possibility of spanking was always there, but it was rarely employed.
37:16
They reserve spanking specifically for lying and deliberate disobedience.
37:22
So it's not for a mistake if you make a bad choice and you lie and you consciously do that or you deliberately disobey.
37:31
There is that distinction, I think is important, because it goes to show, like, you're not gonna punish your kids in a.
37:38
In a harsh way if they're just making a simple, innocent mistake.
37:42
But it's about breaking a pattern of behavior.
37:45
It's about learning, listen, if I deliberately lie or do this terrible thing, the punishment will be swift and severe.
37:52
Yes, I still am against spanking in any circumstance, but, you know, again, if you gotta do it, I suppose this is the only.
37:59
The best way.
38:00
Yeah.
38:01
If you have to.
38:02
Shunning.
38:03
This is interesting.
38:04
I feel like this is interesting to people who are not Amish and don't really get this.
38:07
This.
38:08
When a person is baptized into the Amish church and they commit a sin or they do something against the church rules, they need to show remorse or ask for forgiveness, which is pretty much always given.
38:19
But if they keep disobeying, they are warned that their behavior isn't acceptable.
38:23
And if they continue and don't stop and the church elders have to talk to them again, the church will formally shun them.
38:32
Wow.
38:32
Yeah.
38:33
If you've been shunned, you probably feel like it's punitive, but the intention behind it isn't meant to be punitive.
38:39
It's sort of meant to, like, protect the herd in a way, because people are people.
38:44
And if one person is sowing dissent and chaos, it is often contagious.
38:49
And I think from their perspective, it's like, you know what?
38:52
We love you.
38:53
We want you to get well soon.
38:55
Right.
38:56
Right.
38:57
But they say that sometimes entire families will leave the church to avoid having to shun one of their own.
39:04
Yeah.
39:05
You know, like I get.
39:06
But the shunned person will be forgiven and taken back if they confess and repent.
39:11
Yes.
39:12
However, remember, this is a biblically centered community.
39:19
Right.
39:20
So the laws and the standards that they are held to are biblical.
39:26
Right.
39:26
So you can probably imagine the kinds of things that might get people shunned that in our more modern communities, we are accepting of.
39:35
Right.
39:35
That's probably true.
39:37
Yeah.
39:37
And in those circumstances, I can absolutely understand saying, you Know what?
39:40
I love my son.
39:41
He doesn't line up with the expectations here.
39:44
We're out of here.
39:45
Like, I get that.
39:46
Yeah.
39:46
We don't belong.
39:47
It's time for us to leave.
39:48
Do something else.
39:49
Okay.
39:51
And Amish children, you know, the.
39:53
The possibility of being shunned is something that, you know, scares them.
39:58
So they're gonna behave.
40:00
Yeah.
40:00
Because they don't wanna be shunned.
40:01
You know, they understand that's pretty bad.
40:03
If I were a wanted to get my kid to do anything, I'd be like, you don't want to get shunned, do you?
40:08
Ooh, that would be like the worst threat.
40:12
I can't even imagine.
40:13
You better act right.
40:14
That's right.
40:14
Lest ye be shunned.
40:16
Okay.
40:17
Okay.
40:19
So she talks about, like, you know, tips you can take for if you're non Amish.
40:24
But from the Amish, she says, you know, kids do need guidelines and structure in their lives, and you need to consistently apply consequences.
40:36
And they say instead of trying to make your child happy, focus on making them a person of value with integrity.
40:43
Yes.
40:43
Which is interesting because Dr.
40:45
Becky, another one, another author that we really like, she says, instead of trying to make your child happy, try to make them resilient.
40:53
Yes, but all of those things are.
40:56
In other words, don't just try to give your child things so they're happy.
40:59
Happiness comes and goes.
41:00
Yes.
41:01
You know, but being able to be resilient and a person of integrity, those are qualities that will support you.
41:07
That's right.
41:09
You can reward kids for good behavior, but make them earn it and not lobby for it.
41:15
Teach your kids patience to wait for things.
41:19
Speak to your children and those around you with respect, and your children will do the same.
41:24
Nurture forgiveness towards yourself and your family.
41:27
Model it.
41:27
Yes.
41:28
Discipline your kids.
41:29
You don't have to spank them, but, you know, make sure that you're consistent in your discipline.
41:34
Yeah.
41:35
All right, so the work ethic, you wanna talk about that?
41:39
Yeah.
41:39
I feel like this is pretty self explanatory.
41:41
Obviously, the Amish people work super, super hard because they have to, because they don't have electricity and they don't have so many of the modern luxuries that we have.
41:51
But they start by teaching kids to help with small chores at the age of two, not because they can do everything, but just to give them the feeling of being needed and the contributing family member.
42:03
And so many books we've read say that we in the west overestimate children's emotional capacity and underestimate their physical capacity.
42:13
And I think this is just another way of reiterating that, where it's like, your kid can physically do more than you give them the responsibility to do.
42:20
Exactly.
42:21
They don't get allowances, but they can earn money, which is a system I think I'm gonna be employing.
42:27
I'm gonna create an economy.
42:29
These are the chores that need to get done.
42:30
And each chore is worth a different amount of money.
42:33
You and your siblings can decide, okay, should we unionize and do these as a collective?
42:38
And, like, the people who are best at this can do this, or you can be separate contractors.
42:44
And if I feel like I'm gonna do a job faster, I'm just gonna do it.
42:48
So if you see the chore on the chart, you better get to it.
42:51
Oh, interesting.
42:52
All right, well, I'll see how that works out for you.
42:54
Wish me luck.
42:56
That was actually Sam's idea.
42:57
Oh, I like the idea.
42:58
It's interesting.
42:59
Okay.
42:59
Sam's like, they could give you bids.
43:01
That's right.
43:02
To do the job.
43:02
Because they all want money.
43:04
Yeah.
43:04
You make it a competition.
43:05
Kids always make it an economy.
43:07
That's right.
43:09
I like that.
43:10
Teach kids about the value of a dollar.
43:12
Yes, absolutely.
43:14
Yeah.
43:15
They might be given extra money by their parents if they behave particularly well or are working harder than usual.
43:22
For example, one Amish mom gave her daughter or son $2 every morning that they were ready.
43:29
That they were ready for school.
43:31
I forgot the why in red.
43:33
And on time without having to be reminded to teach them self discipline.
43:37
Like, these are the things that matter that you're going to have to do eventually on your own.
43:41
The job market.
43:45
Well, wait.
43:45
One.
43:45
One more thing I want to say about the jobs.
43:48
When kids are older, like 14, I mean, pretty young, but when they're 14, they do get jobs.
43:53
But they often give their whole paycheck to their family, so they don't keep it for themselves.
44:00
And then the parents might give them a piece of it, but they are paying their parents back for supporting them.
44:06
And they understand, again, that the family is more important than just me.
44:10
Yes.
44:11
So I just want to bring that up.
44:12
That was pretty amazing.
44:15
And they do go to work.
44:18
By eighth grade, they're prepared to go to work.
44:21
And the Amish are allowed to, when they're working, use the tool that they're not allowed to use at home so they can get a job, like in a store.
44:29
Yeah.
44:30
And use a computer.
44:32
They just can't own a computer.
44:33
Yeah.
44:35
And people rave about Amish employees because, you know, they have great worth at Work ethic.
44:42
They show up on time, they work really hard, they have common sense, and they don't steal.
44:47
Well, at least generally.
44:49
You can't speak for every single person, I suppose.
44:51
Yeah.
44:52
You know, but the value system is, you know, to value you hard work.
44:56
So those are the people you want to be employing.
44:59
And the parents are open with their older children about finances, and they know what their parents make.
45:03
They know how much they have in savings and what things cost.
45:08
They talk to them about the wisdom of making various purchases and about handling money responsibly, which we could use.
45:16
I've said this a number of times.
45:17
Teach financial literacy to people.
45:21
We are not open with our kids about how much we make or any of that.
45:26
Money is like a big mystery.
45:27
Yeah, I think.
45:28
Yeah, I think that's the thing in the west, just in general, not just with kids, but with everybody.
45:33
There's so much mystery around how much anybody makes.
45:37
Right, right.
45:38
That's true.
45:39
Yes.
45:39
And it's like, better not talk about it.
45:41
Yeah.
45:42
We don't share that with.
45:43
You know, it's a very private thing.
45:45
It's seen as a very private thing.
45:47
Okay, that's true.
45:48
And.
45:49
And the Amish work hard, but fun is important to them.
45:53
And the things that they look at as fun are things like art projects, sewing, quilting, you know, making ice cream, homemade ice cream, learning to sew from your mother.
46:04
All of these things are considered fun.
46:06
Writing to your pen pal, hunting, birding, volleyball, trampoline, pony carts, puzzles, reading books.
46:15
There's a lot you can do if you don't have screens.
46:17
Yeah.
46:17
Sledding, traveling.
46:19
All of that is considered play.
46:21
Well, I mean, how far are they traveling?
46:22
Well, they go on little trips.
46:24
That's what they do.
46:25
They talked about the fact that they.
46:27
They save their money for trips, and I don't know where they go.
46:31
Maybe not that far because they've got the buggies.
46:33
I don't think.
46:34
I know if they fly.
46:35
I'm.
46:35
I'm guessing I've seen Mennonites on.
46:37
Have you?
46:37
Yeah.
46:38
Okay, so maybe.
46:39
Or maybe they get a Mennonite to drive them somewhere or something.
46:43
But.
46:44
Or in English.
46:44
Or in English.
46:46
Right.
46:46
That's true.
46:47
But anyway.
46:48
But they do travel.
46:49
That's.
46:49
They use their money for some travel is what they said.
46:54
So eventually, when Amish kids become teenagers, they go on what's called a rumspringa, which is running.
47:03
They're, like, running around time.
47:05
Like, they can go experience the modern world, and then they can decide, okay, do I want to live the Way I've lived my whole life and rejoin my family?
47:15
Or do I want to be on my own in the world and live like a normal person?
47:21
Like a Gentile?
47:23
What is a Gentile like, in other words?
47:25
In other words, by a person who's not Amish.
47:27
Yes, like a person who's not Amish in English or like in English.
47:30
But not a men.
47:31
Well, maybe they might decide to be a men.
47:32
Yeah, maybe eventually.
47:34
Which gives them, like, a little more.
47:35
Freedom and flexibility, but they get to experience all the stuff they've never got to experience.
47:40
Like.
47:41
Like screens.
47:42
Yeah.
47:42
Cars.
47:43
This is a pretty exclusive thing as far as, as, you know, hyper religious communities go.
47:49
This is an unusual thing to offer people to say, listen, you know, ultimately we want you to choose this.
47:57
Right.
47:57
We don't want you to feel forced that this is the life that you're gonna have.
48:02
Right.
48:03
You know, there is something else out there.
48:05
If you decide that's for you, you can't continue to participate in our community.
48:09
But we are not going to begrudge you of that and we're not going to hold you hostage.
48:13
Right, exactly.
48:14
So they can decide what they want to do and ex.
48:17
Exactly.
48:19
So, okay.
48:21
And.
48:21
And the.
48:21
I would say that they have fewer.
48:23
The kids have fewer wants at Christmas.
48:27
They don't get very many gifts.
48:28
They may get one gift.
48:29
It's very limited.
48:31
They don't watch tv, so there's nothing they really want.
48:34
Their friends don't have all these extra.
48:35
They don't know.
48:36
They just don't know what's there.
48:37
Not what they're used to.
48:39
Right.
48:41
And.
48:43
Yeah.
48:43
So.
48:46
Anyway.
48:46
So.
48:46
Okay, let's get to.
48:51
Faith.
48:53
Okay.
48:54
So when Amish are baptized, they.
48:56
They kneel and they denounce the world, the devil and the self.
49:00
Yes.
49:01
And the denunciation of self is a promise to rid themselves of pride and disobedience.
49:06
And there's something.
49:07
Well, it's the.
49:08
Called.
49:09
I don't know if I can say this.
49:10
Gellison height.
49:13
Is that the word we used before fully surrendering to God's will, even if it means suffering?
49:18
I think that's.
49:19
That is.
49:20
We talked about that before.
49:21
God is in control.
49:22
God has a plan.
49:23
Yeah.
49:24
So they all have that belief.
49:26
Yeah.
49:27
Which is nice.
49:29
And then, let's see.
49:34
They teach them the patience.
49:36
Starts with having to go to church every day or every Sunday and sitting in church for three to four hours.
49:42
They learn how to be patient.
49:44
So that helps.
49:45
Yeah, it's a virtue.
49:47
It is.
49:47
That's true.
49:49
They forgive each other.
49:50
That's A big part of the, you know, the faith is forgiveness and generosity is also a big part of the faith.
49:57
They, you know, they teach them to help their neighbors, and that's just such a big part of their world.
50:02
Yeah.
50:02
And to really participate in their community.
50:04
Right.
50:05
And.
50:05
And choosing the faith, which is what we're talking about before, which is Rum Springa, where they get to decide.
50:11
They're about 16 years old, and that's when they decide whether or not to accept the faith.
50:15
And they get a few years to experience iPhones, driver's licenses, TV, movies.
50:23
And I think what keeps a lot of the people who do decide to not go back to their community is some of them find the people that they wanna marry who are not Amish or Mennonite.
50:33
And I wonder, can you convert?
50:35
I don't think you can convert to Amish.
50:37
I don't know, though.
50:38
Maybe you can convert to Mennonite.
50:39
You can convert to.
50:41
I, maybe, but I don't know.
50:45
They didn't talk about that.
50:46
Yeah.
50:46
They didn't say during rumspring.
50:49
If you do choose to become English, you leave the community, but you can still have a connection to your Amish family.
50:56
But that.
50:57
I would think that would be a big thing.
50:58
If you love your family, you don't want to leave your family.
51:01
Yeah, totally.
51:02
I would hate to leave my family.
51:03
I can't imagine.
51:04
But a lot of people want to leave their family.
51:06
Maybe they don't like their family.
51:07
Yeah.
51:08
Like, maybe they want to go.
51:09
No contact.
51:10
Yeah, exactly.
51:12
I don't know.
51:13
I liked this book.
51:15
I liked this book.
51:16
It was not like the other books we've read, which I liked, because what you start to realize about a lot of these books is that they.
51:23
They spout very similar ideas.
51:25
Right.
51:26
You know, and this was a very, like, a roadmap of how this is how these Amish people do it.
51:32
And this is why they get the results that they get.
51:35
Right?
51:35
I.
51:36
Yes.
51:36
And I.
51:37
It was stuff I.
51:38
I did not know about a lot of this.
51:40
I didn't know about it.
51:41
And also, you know, I.
51:43
I always thought of kind of Amish as almost being like, you know, a very extreme religion, like extremism.
51:53
Like, I'm thinking about, you know, some of the.
51:57
I don't know, like, the.
51:58
The trad wife situation where the, you know, far right Christian sort of thing or possibly like, I don't know, like Hasidic Jews.
52:10
But it's not like that.
52:12
It doesn't seem.
52:12
I mean, maybe she just didn't really emphasize that she Talked a lot about the faith, but she doesn't get super specific.
52:19
And you have to assume that if they are following the Bible, I.
52:22
I don't know which testament they are following.
52:24
Right.
52:24
I would guess possibly the Old Testament.
52:26
Okay.
52:27
Which is pretty hard.
52:28
But I don't know.
52:28
I don't know any Amish people.
52:31
Right.
52:31
I don't either.
52:32
So, again, any community that is centered around faith and religion, okay.
52:38
There are gonna be more strict laws, rules and expectations for everybody.
52:43
Right.
52:44
Particularly the women.
52:45
But that's what I wonder.
52:47
It didn't seem so bad for the women.
52:49
So that's what I mean.
52:50
I think because there's so much work to get done that this sort of idea of like, stay in your lane doesn't really exist because, you know, if you can drive in a lane, at some point you're going to
53:01
be expected to drive in that la.
53:03
You know, so women help out in the harvest and men sometimes help in the kitchen.
53:07
And like, you know, there's a bit more blurring of the responsibility lines than I expected, you know?
53:14
Yeah.
53:15
According to her.
53:16
Yes.
53:16
That's what.
53:17
That's.
53:17
At least in this particular community that she was observing.
53:20
I'm sure every community is probably a little bit different.
53:22
Some are stricter than others.
53:24
You know, every community at the end of the day is made up of.
53:27
People, but the fact that they do give the kids a chance to leave is like, hey, this may not be for you.
53:32
You can leave.
53:33
Yeah.
53:34
Although I do.
53:35
Like I said, I think it would be hard for many people to leave their family, but still.
53:40
Yeah.
53:40
No, I guess you're given the choice.
53:42
Yeah.
53:43
I just thought there were a lot of good ideas in here.
53:46
So.
53:47
About bringing up your kid and community and the importance of other people.
53:55
There were just a lot of good ideas.
53:56
Selflessness.
53:58
What did you say?
53:59
Selflessness.
53:59
Oh, selflessness, yes, absolutely.
54:02
Showing that to your child, like, helping other people, letting them see that.
54:07
Yeah.
54:07
No, I thought it was really good.
54:09
And, you know, so.
54:11
So take ideas from.
54:12
Take ideas.
54:13
It's a long book.
54:14
It's not scientific at all.
54:16
I wouldn't call it the easiest read, but it moves.
54:19
It moves pretty.
54:20
It's okay.
54:21
Yeah, yeah, it's.
54:21
I've read harder.
54:24
I've read easier.
54:25
Right, right.
54:25
You know, exactly.
54:26
Yeah.
54:27
But overall, solid selection.
54:29
Well, and then if you like it, you can read the author's soft romances about Amish people who fall in love with each other.
54:39
That I, you know, sounds kind of interesting.
54:41
She's a little Amish obsessed, I guess, but.
54:44
Okay, everybody's everybody's got their thing.
54:46
Well, that's her.
54:47
That's who she, I guess, specialized in was Amish romances.
54:52
And that's, you know, she cornered the market there.
54:54
And then she got really interested in the Amish community after that.
54:58
You want to learn about the romance of Rosemary and Gibbedine, feel free.
55:03
Exactly.
55:04
Look up the rest of her stuff.
55:06
Exactly.
55:06
Well, thank you guys so much for joining us for this episode of Other People's Parenting.
55:10
And we will see you next week.