Latest / Brief Recess: A Legal Podcast with Michael Foote & Mélissa Malebranche / Seriously, What is Going On with Mitch McConnell (w. Clay Aiken)

Transcript

Seriously, What is Going On with Mitch McConnell (w. Clay Aiken) · Brief Recess: A Legal Podcast with Michael Foote & Mélissa Malebranche

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Brief Recess. I'm Michael Foote.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: I'm Melissa Malbranch.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Today we're going to talk about all our unhinged microaggressions.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: We're going to talk about Mr. CJ, our producer, who
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: had a baby. A baby! We're going to talk about
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: how I'm a drunk DM celeb sometimes, and that's how
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: we got our guest today. Clay Aiken is in the studio.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Is Mitch McConnell a marionette yet? We're not sure. We're
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: going to find out. So stick around.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: Do you see the fire in the pines?
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Yes, I do.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: Are you devastated?
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: No, I've never been to the Fire Island.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: You've never been to the Fire Island?
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Just because I'm gay doesn't mean I'm devastated by a
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: fire on the Fire Island.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: I'm not gay and I've been to the Fire Island
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: many times. I mean, it's been quite a while, but
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, still, I felt bad. What?
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm not laughing about the fire. I'm just laughing.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: People are always like, so how was the pints this summer, Michael?
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: No, I have never said that to you. No, not you,
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: but people.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Will say that. They're like, so you're in Provincetown, right?
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: No, because I feel like... I would know if you
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: were going to P-Town.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: It's like if someone was like, so, did you like
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: In the Heights?
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: Why would I?
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: Okay, first of all, there are so many things I'll believe.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: No, but like exactly. That's the point is that it's incorrect.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: You're not. I'm not Dominican.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: You're not Dominican or Puerto Rican.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: I'm not from Washington Heights.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: But if you were to say something else to me
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: that is sort of like black-coated, I may or may
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: not understand. Like, oh, Melissa, have you ever been to
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: the Inkwell? No, I haven't. I haven't.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Let's get into a sidebar about microaggressions. What are some
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: of the microaggressions people say to you? Because people say
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: a lot to me.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: Oh, people have said, wow, Melissa, you speak very well. No!
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: Say it once. It's really bad. It's horrible. I mean, yeah,
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: that's a macroaggression.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's like, you know what it is? It's
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: one of those things that I think that people think
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: is a compliment.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: Like, I remember, oh, man. And this is like one
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: of those, it's like a microaggression against fat people, right?
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: So when I was overweight, somebody said to me, You
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: moved very lightly. Like I was live, considering. Like the
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: club-footed Contessa. I mean, it was.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: A two-tonic club-footed.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: And the thing is, it's like. Or one time I
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: had a guy say to me.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: Not a man. First of all, a man should never
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: say anything to me. First of all, not a man speaking.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: But I had a guy say to me. Oh, man.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: In a moment. Sure. Post moment. Uh-huh.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: That he had never been with a fat girl before.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: Oh, no.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: And I was.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Oh, no.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: How was it for you?
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: And you were like, your trophy's in the mail. And,
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: you know. What do you want from me?
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: And so that's the kind of thing that.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: In my head.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: I immediately want to say something really mean.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: Like, I've never seen that small of a penis before. Like,
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: do you know what I'm saying? Like, that's the kind
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: of thing that you want to say, but that's not
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: very nice.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a short guy before. Yeah. Right.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: You're the shortest man I've ever been with.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: How's that for you? I love when, like, drunk bachelorettes
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: ask me what their hair, like, what do I think
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: of their hair? And I just say, I don't know,
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: I'm bald. And I'm like. But I do. What's annoying
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: is that I do have a lot of opinions about
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: people's hair.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: Well, you do. You do have a lot of opinions
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: about people's.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: Hair, which is really funny.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: Which is really funny because I know that you do.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: And I'll be like, did you see her hair? Melissa
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: will be like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Look who got the Rachel.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: Or no, I know you've.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: Said to me, you've said to me, she missed a
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: spot with the flat iron.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: Let me tell you something. That one chunk of hair
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: in the back.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: It's hard to see.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: Celebrities, though. You know who I'm talking about. I'm going
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: to bleep this out. She misses. And I've hung out
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: with her a couple times. And there's always a fucking clump.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, that clump of hair is marching for
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: its rights. Right. It is unionizing.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: What it is, it's in protest of what's happening.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: Yes. It's Norma Rae. It's ringing the bell. Union. Union.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: Oh, so I have permission to say something.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: Okay. Are you ready? I'm scared.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: Don't be scared. Friends. Brief Recess has had its first baby.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: Our producer, CJ. And it's neither of ours. It's neither
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: of ours.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: Our producer, CJ.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: Oh, my God.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: And his wife have welcomed a beautiful, bouncing baby, healthy boy.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: Mama and baby and dad are doing really well.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: And dad said the cutest thing.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: Hold on.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: I'm going to read it because I love it so much.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: Well, we were texting the group chat. Yeah.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: And he was like, oh, mom and baby are doing great.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: And I said, what about dad? Hello?
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: Baby and mom are healthy and happy and amazing. And
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: Michael says, um, dad. And he said, thank you, Michael.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: I am great. So happy and filled with pure joy.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: Could you just... And Michael knows this more than anybody,
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: but I love babies so much. And when I tell you,
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: if I know you or don't know you and you
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: have a baby... I'm genuinely interested in seeing a picture
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: of your kid and hearing you talk about your kid.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: And Michael knows that I am dead serious. And sometimes
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: I feel like I say that to people and they
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: think that I'm just being nice. I know.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: They really do think that Melissa is just being nice.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: I'm not.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: And she actually gets mad at me when I hang
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: out with a new parent and I didn't get a vote.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: I get so upset. She actually gets really mad at me.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: What do they have? I don't know.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: You don't know?
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: She really does. She gets really serious about it. And
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: then I'm like, how much does the baby weigh? How
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: tall is it?
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: How long is it? And Michael's like, you know what?
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: Do you want me to introduce you to this person?
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: I'm like, can I just put you directly in touch
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: with them? Because I don't know. I get so pissed off.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: Especially because you're childless. I'm not childless. Oh, I'm sorry.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: I am child-free.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: Child-free.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: And there's a big difference. And there is a big difference.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: I think childless is somebody who is sort of sad
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: about not having a child and being child-free is being
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: okay with it.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: Is having both legs in the air in the Caribbean. Like,
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: on vacation, that's child-free.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: And I have been– I've said this to you many times.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: I've been lucky enough to have people in my life,
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: including my husband and his ex-wife, who have shared their.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: Child with me. And nieces.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: And I have tons of nieces. And, you know, I
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: am obsessed with my nephew.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: It's true. So, it doesn't feel like you're child-free.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: It doesn't feel like that.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: I've got, like, six neetos in my house. I'm not child-free. Like,
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: I don't have kids.
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: But I'm not child free. No, you're not. Like, you
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like, I got all these kids everywhere.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: I can't swing my arm without knocking over one of
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: my friend's fucking kids.
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: No.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: And you do like Michael.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: And I do.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: And I love it. It is. Some of them.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: Michael's holiday card last year was a picture of him
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: and his husband, Brad.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: Holding an Asian baby.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: Holding a baby. And I was like.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: Everyone thought we adopted.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: Who is this kid?
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: It was my nephew.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: It was your nephew.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: It was my nephew. Who's half Vietnamese and he's so cute.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: He's really, really cute. The other one is really cute, too.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: Well, we did a full casting for the Christmas card.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: And he did come out. We only had room for
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: one kid in the photo. And so the other one,
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: we did let him down easy. We said, don't call us.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: We'll call you. And so Lincoln made the photo. But,
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: Sophie's choice is not a problem for you. You would
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: have been able to choose real easy. Yeah.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: Opening sequence. What's the choice? This one. Roll the credits.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: Don't care.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: No.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: Just throw a dart and hit a kid. Right between
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: the eyes.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: And so, we did only have one kid on the
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: Christmas card this year. And everyone thought we adopted. And
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: I didn't, you know, I didn't really. And you didn't
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: correct anyone. I didn't correct anybody. I didn't explain on
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: the Christmas card who that was.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: I said, let's sow a little chaos. People are a
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: little too bored out here on these streets. Some boring
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: news cycle. Yeah. Oh, my God. Let's get into algorithm
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: of showing about Mitch McConnell. This man.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: At this point.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: At this point.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: Let's have him headline the Super Bowl. Well, let's have him.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: You horrible, evil little man.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: We might as well.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: I am not somebody who likes this man at all, right?
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: But this is the kind of thing that makes me wonder,
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: why doesn't anybody love you?
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: Right? Right.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: Who is taking care of you? What is happening in
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: the home?
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: Baby, I'm 38. Brad's already like, it's time to retire.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: You're getting a little long in the tooth. Yeah, it's... Yeah,
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: no one is like, let's... Can we keep him at home?
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: Keep him at home.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's almost... It's giving elder abuse.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: It is. It feels almost... cruel right and i and
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: i don't understand.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: I have no sympathy for him but i but i
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: what is that bell i cut you off keep going
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: did i cut you off we're ringing the bell every
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: time i didn't even see that bell there that i
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: haven't slept at all um yeah no but he he
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: um no i'm just so distracted by the value bitch
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: You bitch, what is the fucking bell? Every time I
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: interrupt you. Keep going. I don't remember. I can't keep going.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: What do you mean you don't remember? Roll the credits.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: Roll the commercial. Cut to commercial.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: Brief recess.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: Elder abuse. What's going on in the home?
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: It does feel, I mean, I don't know. I remember
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: when Dianne Feinstein was also sort of on this downward spiral.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: I don't understand. I used to work for somebody. I
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: used to work for two people. And one of my
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: bosses was older and not doing well at all. Sometimes
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: I would see him and he looked really confused. And
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: my other boss said to me, she's like, you know what, Melissa?
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: Some people don't know when it's time to exit stage left.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: Girl, get the hook.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: And I don't know why people feel like they need
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: to stay. He's 84 years old. Isn't he tired?
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: It's unbelievable. And it's also, did you see the video
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: of him voting yes?
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: He's voted so they're taking a vote. He says the
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: wrong vote.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: And then the other guy is just like, say yes.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: And the handler is like behind him, like tapping him
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: on the shoulder.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: That's not right.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: They're like, yo, yo, yo. No, no, no, no, no.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: You're supposed to– you're voted the wrong way. We're at
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: the point where like he's got like a string on
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: one arm with like yes or no and like the
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: little sign. And we've got like the Walton family pulling–
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: we've got– and then the other arm is the Koch brothers.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: Like we've got– that's how they're deciding.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: But no, I– you know, how many times– and I'm
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: going to say this, but I'm kind of serious– Mitch
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: McConnell has been reset many times. Just control-alt-delete and putting
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: him back together again.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: The factory reset.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: And if you are somebody who is in that position
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: and you are worried, say, about legacy, now when we
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: think about you and your career, that's all we're going
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: to remember is you sitting in that, whatever, the accessoride
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: and looking like you are a marionette. It's not, I
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: am not even kidding.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: It's not funny, but the image was so insane.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, and he's just like, look, I felt, I
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: almost felt bad. Almost felt bad. Almost because he's a
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: terrible person.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: Do you think it's actually him? Paid actor. I'm serious.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: Like it's about, there's the internet theory is like my
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: algorithm is all like, it takes three months to recover
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: from facial reconstructive surgery.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: Is that how long it's been since we've seen him?
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: People who are like, they got some guy and they
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: fucking yanked his face back and made him look like
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: Mitch McConnell.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: Do you remember in Game of Thrones when Arya became...
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: And she had all those faces. Arya of many faces.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's Arya.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: What did I text you this week about Game of Thrones?
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: I said, every time I feel like I'm failing, I
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: just remember that finale of Game of Thrones.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: Oh, you said about how somebody worked really hard on that.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: And I responded, no, they didn't.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: That finale was chopped. It was chopped unk, as the
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: kids say.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: It was just really disappointing.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: It was so bad.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: It was so bad.
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: Coming in with a hot take 10 years later, Melissa
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: and Michael, we didn't like the finale of Game of Thrones.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: We didn't like the finale.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: That was really crazy. Especially because we had, what was it,
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: seven years of slow burn?
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I think what it is is also
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: like it's. Especially for somebody like me, I am not
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: that loyal of a television watcher. Like sometimes I'll just
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: get tired of a show somewhere right before the end
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: of it.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: I stuck it out. And I was very patient. There
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: was attrition. A lot of people.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: And I was patient and I was hopeful.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: And Melissa would come into work every day on Monday.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: So mad.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: She was. And she would have these theories. She'd be
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: connecting the dots. You know what?
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: We got married on a Sunday. That was the first
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: day of whatever season that was of Game of Thrones.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: And I apologized to our friends and family. I'm like,
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: thank you so much for being here. And I know
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: you must really love us to have missed Game of Thrones.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: And people were like, yeah. Yeah.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: Anyway.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: Like a bridge over troubled water, I would like to
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: get to our next segment with our special guest. Yes.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: Clay Aiken's in the studio.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: He is in the studio.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: So get ready for... I honestly have no idea what
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: we're getting ready for.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: We're just ready. Just get ready. I'm excited.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: I'm excited too. Yeah. I haven't met him yet.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: Nor have I.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: I just DM people sometimes.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: You know, Michael, I always say this.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: Sometimes my alcohol... Intake? Ring the bell. I interrupted her again.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: Sometimes my alcohol intake leads to some great guests. Because
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: I will be in the back of an Uber at
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: 3 in the morning just DMing celebrities come on the show.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: And sometimes they answer. Okay, what were you going to say?
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: I don't remember, Michael.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: But I will say this.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: I need a bell.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: I have one for you.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: Oh, okay.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: I bought two.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: Oh, okay. You bought two. Well, to be fair.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: They came two in a box. I would have only
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: bought one for myself, but since there were two.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Submit the receipt. To who? Exactly right. Is it a secret?
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: Did Georgia and Karen not know that we're submitting receipts?
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: We'll be right back. Welcome back to Brief Recess. Our
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: guest today is the multi-talented singer-songwriter, actor, author, and father,
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: Clay Aiken. He's written the best-selling memoir, He's performed on Broadway,
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: ran for Congress, has been a UNICEF ambassador, and became
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: a father. After nearly 20 years, Clay is making his
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: return to music. His new album, Rewind, drops Friday, September 25th.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: You can follow him on Instagram at Clay Aiken. Welcome
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: to Brief Recess, Clay!
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: The only time I've ever been in trouble trouble, I
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: was 16 and I had just gotten a job at
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: the YMCA.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: I was so happy.
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: And I was in the parking lot and I backed
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: the car out. And as I backed the car out,
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: somebody hit me. I backed out and they hit me. But,
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: you know, I was still at fault because I was rushed.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: But I didn't know.
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: I was 16 and I didn't want to get in
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: trouble and lose my job. So it took me all
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: the way to the seventh digit of my phone number
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: to lie to the man. He was like, well, just
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: give me your phone number and we'll work it out.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: And I said, 8-4-A-1-C-6.
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: And instead of five, I said nine. And because I thought, well,
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: maybe I can just blame it on him.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: He wasn't listening.
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean? That night I get home. Well,
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: I'm home that night.
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: We have dinner.
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: We're sitting at the dinner table and all of a
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: sudden blue lights outside.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: Is that true? Well, either way, cops show up in
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: the driveway. I don't remember.
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: Yes, they did have the lights going. Blue lights in
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: the driveway. The cops show up with the man. I mean,
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: he had had.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, I was 16. He was an idiot.
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: He was smart enough. Well, it's a big enough town
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: for me. It was Raleigh. I mean, it's... They were
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: real cops. And the guy had been smart enough to
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: get the license plate number, right? So that I would not...
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: Because he.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: I guess he assumed I would lie to him. Sure.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: Because I was a teenager. What else do we do? Anyway, he... Well,
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: I'm not done. So we get....
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: They go through this whole thing. And I love the
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: fact that at the time the cops were like, I
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: can see by the angle of the scratches that it
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: was your fault. And I'm like, no, you can't. But
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: I was, I was, I was shitting my pants.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: Of course you are.
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: So I was scared to death. And I, you know, whatever.
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: They put me in the back of the cop car.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: No.
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: They tell me that it's a hit and run because
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: I guess it legally is a hit and run. If
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: you don't give your information, you leave. They said it's
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: a hit and run. They put me in the back
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: of the cop car and did that whole good cop,
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: bad cop thing. My parents went inside, turned the lights off,
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: and went to bed. And I found out later- That
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: is quality parenting right there.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: It is. Well, even better. That cops had already called.
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: They had called the house earlier that evening, told my
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: mom what had gone on, what had happened.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: We said, we think it's- And she said, come scare
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: the shit out of me. She said, mess him up
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: real good.
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: And they sat me in the back of that car
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: and scared the living piss out of me.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: You know what?
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: Clay Aiken's mom.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: That is- That's why I'm such an outstanding citizen now, right?
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: I actually- I kind of love that, right? I do, too.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: It's like she wanted.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: To teach you a lesson. Oh, she taught it.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: And you have never forgot it.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: And I've never broken any laws again.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: I believe that.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: Until today.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: I believe that.
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: But, you know, I raised my kid the same way.
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: He does not appreciate it in the way that I do.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I didn't appreciate it then either. I
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: was a little more afraid of him than he is
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: of me.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: But I was tough. Are you.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: Are you a stern parent or.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: Are you a lean? You are. I'm a hard ass.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: Really?
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: I can give you a look right now that would
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: make your hair look like his.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: Yes. That's what happened to mine, actually. I stopped parenting, yeah. Really?
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: We got away with nothing when we were kids. I mean,
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: we did all sorts of stuff, but there were lots
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: of strict rules when we were growing up.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: I'll say this, and I've said this to my parents,
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: is that... Because my parents were so strict and didn't
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: want me to do anything.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: Now you sound like a teenager. Wait, wait, wait. Didn't
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: want me to do anything.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: They didn't. No, I mean, they did not. It turned
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: me into a liar. And I lied. Oh, my God.
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: So when I was in high school, I absolutely did.
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: When I was a kid, I did too.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: Yes. But that's, I mean, I was petrified of my step.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: I was literally a.
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: Redheaded stepchild and I was petrified of my stepfather. So
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: I did lie about stuff too.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: But. But I mean, I haven't in years. I really
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: don't think I have.
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: But yes, I understand that sometimes stern parenting can lead
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: kids to be afraid. I don't think mine is. I
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: think he's probably, I probably should be afraid of him.
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: He could kick my ass. But I don't think he's
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: afraid of me in that way. He's a good, he
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: really is a very good kid.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: And he messed up his car. It wasn't his fault.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: We could all hit a nail. Sure.
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: But he wants it fixed this weekend because he wants
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: to drive to Charlotte.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: And I am busy. Yes, you are. And why are
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: you busy, Clay Aiken? What's going on? Oh, look at
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: this transition. We're really smooth here. I know, very good.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: We're really smooth with the transition.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: So tell us all about your new Rewind.
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: What shall we talk about? It's like first album in
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: 18 years.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: I've been wondering about that.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: And so, again, I think....
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: Time is so weird, right? It never– so, like, your
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: child is 18 years old. I thought he was 10.
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: Well, COVID took at least three out for us, right?
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: Yes, 100%.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: I definitely think that since COVID, what we know of
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: time is skewed somehow. But– So it hasn't been 18 years.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: Why now? What's going on? Because he wants me out
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: of the house. Sure. So I'm like, okay, fine. I
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: will see you when you graduate college. I'm going to
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: go on tour.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: Is he in college or is he in high school?
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: He's in high school.
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: He's in the same high school I went to.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: He had my science teacher. No. Oh, my God. I
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: love that. I know, but he doesn't appreciate it.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: He will later.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: I think so, too.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: He will later. I say that to my husband about
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: our daughter all the time is that she doesn't want
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: to hang out with us now. which is completely normal.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: She's 25 years old. She doesn't want to do that.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: When I was 25, I didn't want to hang out
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: with my parents. And now I just kind of like
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: go over there and like sit around.
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: I just say, I say to him, I hope I'm
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: not dead by the time you appreciate me.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: There's no telling. Hey, I could kill us all within
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: 10 years.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: Apparently, it's about to.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we got 10 years left. So make it, enjoy
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: the time. So tell us about. Appreciate me fast. Yes.
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: No, that is though why I said, you know, I
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: stepped away largely because I haven't recorded an original album
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: in 18 years and I haven't toured in 15. So
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: I stopped touring a little bit after he was born.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: I did a little bit.
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: But when he was fit, when he got to around
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: elementary school, I really didn't want to I recognized that
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: I was very, very lucky to find someone who would
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: have a kid with me, a gay man.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: She was a single woman herself.
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: And I didn't want to miss out. I was like,
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: I knew this is only going to happen once.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: So I didn't want to be away. I didn't want
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: to be on the road.
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: I spent so many years on the road after Idol
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: that if I was touring, I was home like three
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: months out of the year.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: And I didn't want to be that way.
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: I was a teacher also. And I knew that I
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: was going to be the strict one who was going
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: to make you do your homework and like you're just
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: going to be involved in all that stuff. So I
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: stopped for that reason. And now it is honestly a
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: large part of it. Well, a large part of it
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: is I did. I'd moved into other things. We'll call
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: it public service.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: Really, it's just. Really, it was just insanity and nonsense.
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: But when I decided I was never going to help
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: America again, never again.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: After EIDL. After all that you had done. After all
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: that you had done for reality television.
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: So, I mean, I ran for Congress twice. And I
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: know you guys were like, they told us not to
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: talk about that. I mean, because I hate it. I
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: know you don't hate it, but I do. I just
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: think that we're in a really.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: sad time in general.
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: And I don't like, and I got really sick of
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: it after I did it the last time and said,
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: I don't have it. I don't hate enough to be
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: good at this.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: Well, I'll just say that like you are young and
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: literally alive. So why would you want to be in Congress?
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: I'm not young, but I appreciate it. I'm young compared
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: to them, right?
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: Young in comparison to what we saw this week.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So we won't get into that. We won't.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: But since you brought it up, I was just thinking
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: about this and I was wondering and you can sort of.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: It's okay. I can spin like nobody's business. No, no, no.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: I just wonder. So... I have often thought about what
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: kind of person wants to run for any office, right?
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: Like I would not run for a PTA board president
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: only because, or even like my condo board president, right?
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: Like I would never do that only because it feels
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: so often that you can't really please anybody, right? It
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: feels very much like a thankless job. And even for
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: our public servants, it feels like a thankless job sometimes.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: And I wonder what the experience of running was like.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: Were you surprised at anything? Were you anything? Did anything
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: make you feel good? Like, how was that for you?
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: Well, I ran knowing I was not going to win
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: in 2014. I mean, I ran.
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: There was this thing that no one had ever heard
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: of back in 2014 called gerrymandering, which I was very
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: big on. It's sort of hot button now. And the
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: district that I lived in had been very gerrymandered. And
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: the person who was in the seat was not bad.
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: I mean, not debate, not even acknowledging opponents didn't have to.
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: And I was like, OK, see if.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: You can ignore me, bitch. And so it's so messy.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: That's exactly what I love.
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: She wasn't she wasn't debating opponents at all. And I
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: just I kind of made a passing comment to a friend.
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: You know, well, she she wins by less than X.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: Yes. This next time, then maybe I'll run against her
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: and see if she can avoid debating.
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: And that's what I did, and that's what I wanted
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: to do, mostly to say, look, you can't just.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: And you know what? She had to debate me.
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: She said, this Obama-Aitken economy is killing us all. She
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: literally said that, and I was like, you're welcome. But
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: she got made fun of, and she ended up losing
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: her primary. She drew two primary opponents by December of
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: the year that she won, and she lost her primary.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: So you're welcome.
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: I knew I wasn't going to run, but I think
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: the answer to your question is.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: People who want to win. That's really what it is.
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: I think nowadays, and I say that for both sides,
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: I'm not affiliated with either party now. I'm completely registered
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: and unaffiliated in North Carolina because I grew up like
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: loving West Wing, you know, or there were governors and
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: senators when I was growing up who really did make
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: education better and they changed lives for, you know, people,
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: poor people, and they did great things. And I thought,
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: this is a wonderful way to do things.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: I was so stupid. I mean, really?
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: And it's not that way. I will say it was
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: easier to run in a general election against someone who
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: I had disagreements with on policy than it was to
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: run in a primary where it's just about, let's see
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: if we can be as nasty as we can possibly
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: be to someone who really we agree with on things.
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: And so I became very disheartened after that and said,
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: you know what? No one that I can see in
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: my world is really doing anything to help.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: They just want to win. Right.
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: And I just got disgusted with it. And I said,
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: you know what? I'm done with this. I think I
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: have sacrificed enough of my ass to this shit for
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: 10 years. And I only have one other marketable skill.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: So I guess I got to sing. So I went
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: out on the road with Ruben.
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: He was doing a 20th anniversary tour from our idol.
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: He's like, well, you want to.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: Come do it too?
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: And he's been so supportive when I was running both times.
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: He did fundraisers for me and everything. And so he said,
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: you want to come out and do it?
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: I was like, you know what?
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: He'd been telling me I should go back to singing,
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: but he was supporting me anyway. I said, okay, I'll
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: do it. And I had so much fun with it.
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: And I realized, and this is going to sound really, really,
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: really cheesy, but I looked out and thought, wow, these
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: people are happy. And I thought doing the political thing
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: could improve lives. And then I realized, well, I'll be damned.
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: I may not be able to lower their taxes or
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: help their bottom line, but if this makes people happy
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: for two hours, then I'm probably doing better that way.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: And I will say, I think that anybody who throws
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: their hat in that kind of ring, there is a
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: certain level of bravery associated with that.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: There's bravery. Bravery, yes.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: And maybe psychosis.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: I think that there's a level, local levels, condo board
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: if you want to. There are people who do things
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: because they really have an issue that's very important to them.
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: I really do believe that once you get to the
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: congressional level and above, you're doing it because you want
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: to win.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: There's not– because honestly, there's not much that they can do.
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: Even when they have power, they can't do shit on
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: either side. So I think that there is a level
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: of just wanting to be in power and in control.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: And it just– it leads people. And it's so much
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: about money. It's all about money.
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: I spend all day asking people for money.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, this is ridiculous. Oh, it's stupid. It's stupid.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: It's just– it's not even– it's ridiculous.
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: And I think it's a– I think it's– I don't
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: want to be like– I never would let my staff
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: say broken system because I think it's a cliche. But
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: we were allowed to say dumpster fire if we wanted
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: to because that's what it is.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: That's true.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: While you were doing that, did you miss the entertainment part,
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: like singing for people and doing what you do best?
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: Am I supposed to say yes to that?
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: You can say whatever you want.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: I didn't. Okay. She's about to go on tour. But
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: you know what? No, but will I say I didn't
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: while I was away? No, I'm not going to spit it.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you the truth.
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: I told you when I went out on the road
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: with Ruben for that 20th anniversary tour. I found that
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: I loved it.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And I did miss it.
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: I didn't miss it when I was away, out of sight,
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: out of mind. But then I got an audience. Listen,
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: I thought that there were going to be people who...
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: And there were, they see a letter behind your name
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: and they write you off. And I told myself, once
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: I do this, I'm not going to be able to
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: go back to singing. And I found out, and maybe
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: it's because everybody's sick of that shit. Everybody's sick of politics.
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: So they were just happy to see anybody who was
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: not gonna talk about it. And so I thought, Didn't
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: miss it before.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: But when I got out there, I was like, holy crap,
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: I really do. And that's when I said, okay, I
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: miss it.
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: This has been so much more enjoyable for me than
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: any of that other crap ever could be. I'm doing
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: something to make people happy in ways that I couldn't
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: do before.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: And my kid wants me out of the house, so
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: now's the time. It's the perfect confluence of events. I
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: will say there is something really interesting about how, especially
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: right now, in the entertainment industry or public figures... Just
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: do whatever the fuck you want. Like the silos of
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: reality TV, actor, musician, politician, they are all blended together
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: in a great way and also an awful way many times, right?
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: We want experts to be in positions where their expertise
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: is being put to good use. But I'd love to
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: hear and see that you are choosing your own adventure
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: when it comes to your career. Like you're like picking
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: what works for you. This is what brings me joy.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: This is what I want to focus on at any
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: given moment in your career. But I was going to say,
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: when I was telling people that you were coming on
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: the show, the number one thing everyone was like, you
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: have to ask him about that freaking Christmas album. He
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: eats it up every time that Christmas album, it plays
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: in everyone's freaking house in America at Christmas. And I
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: have to tell you, if you have a Christmas album
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: that slaps, there's not like, There's only so many Christmas songs.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: I know. And I've done them all. But if you
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: get in the rotation, it's so great. Everyone was so
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: excited about that Christmas. Well, I don't know. You may
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: not even have any on your notes. I don't.
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: I haven't even looked at them. I always loved doing Christmas.
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: And I did a Christmas tour for years and years.
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: I think I did it every year for seven years
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: before it stopped. And when I decided I was going
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: to I don't want to do this again. I found
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: a manager who I was thrilled to work with. And
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: I said, I really just want to do Christmas at
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: some point. And he said, well, what about we do
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: Christmas in July somewhere? So we did a show in
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: Vegas for Christmas in July, this past July. And we
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: just got called by them a week and a half ago.
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: And I'm going to do a week in Vegas for
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: Christmas this year.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: Yes. I was going to say the biggest residency. First
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: time I've ever done that.
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: Christmas is my jam.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: So that sounded like an invitation. Yeah, come on. Sorry,
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: that was, yeah. You're going to spend the holidays. I
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: love it. Yeah. It's such a beautiful Christmas town, right?
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: A nice, clean, wholesome town.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: It is now, y'all. A nice, clean, wholesome town.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: Christmas in Vegas.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: No, it is now. It's going to be great. Yes.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: So I'm excited about that. That's really exciting. But I
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: do love Christmas.
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: So tell all your friends, deck the halls, and then
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: come out to Christmas.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: You know, sensitive.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because like you said, there aren't a whole lot.
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: There's not.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, I feel like Mariah Carey wrote the one
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: new Christmas song. You know what I mean? And it's
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: not new anymore now.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: We still love it. That's not the point.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: But like everybody who does a Christmas album has to
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: put their own little spin on it. And sometimes it
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: works and sometimes it doesn't.
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: I don't like to do that.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: That's what I do. tried not to do. To just
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: make it traditional. I mean, we use maybe a different
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: instrument here. Yeah.
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: But I wanted to make, and I've done now two
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: Christmas albums, well, two and a half, I did an
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: EP too. And I said, let's not reinvent the wheel here.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: You're right.
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: Everybody wants to do another All I Want for Christmas You.
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: Kelly did, I think Kelly has had maybe the next,
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: the only person in 20 years who's had a song
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: That's almost, it's kind of.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: Gotten to the level that we're on. An original.
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: Original Christmas song. It's very, very rare. Everybody's trying to
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: do it. And they all do it in that same doo-wop.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: But once you get, if you are that one every
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: 20 years who manages to pull it off, baby, you
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: can ride that wave. You're minted. Yes.
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: They make a million dollars a year. Both she and
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: Walter Avanessi make a million dollars a year just off
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: of that song. Just off All I Want For Christmas
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: Is You. Between the royalties and the radio, because the songwriters,
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: they make the radio for writing the song.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: Million dollars a year. Every Macy's, every Kohl's, they're playing
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: it every 60 seconds. And everybody wants to sing it
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: live and people are covering it. Everybody loves to cover it,
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: which is really a mistake because you're not going to
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: do it like her. So let her do it. Let
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: her cook.
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: You ain't never heard me record that. I ain't messing
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: with it.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: Do you perform it?
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: So true. We did.
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: Ruben and I did a show on Broadway, a Christmas
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: show on Broadway in 2018. And everything, every part of
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: that show was designed and devised by Ruben and I,
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: except for the last number. The producer said, you have
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: to do All I Want for Christmas is You.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: And we were like, You were like, why are we
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: going to do it?
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: But it's because it doesn't matter.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: I don't care who sings it. That girl who sang
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: the Friday song, she could sing it and the audience
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: would stand up and sing along.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: She's doing something.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: Rebecca Black. She's always doing something. Everybody loves that song.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: You do that thing where you go. You just sing
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: part of the lyrics and then you go like this
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: to the audience. Tell me. You sing. No, because he
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: can't say we'll have to buy the rates for this show.
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: I'm not singing nothing. I'm not singing nothing.
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: But it's a crowd pleaser and everybody wants to.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's that and Sweet Caroline. Yes.
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: You do those and the crowd loves you. You can
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: literally crap.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: On stage for a full hour and a half.
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: But if you sing All I Want for Christmas is You,
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: they will leave with a smile on their face.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: So we had to do that.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: Totally random fact about Sweet Caroline is, so you know
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: the part where everybody goes, so good, so good, so good.
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: My husband did not know that people did that. And
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: we were on like a party bus and people were
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: doing that. And he was like, what's happening? And I
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: felt like he was a stranger in that moment.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: I was like, where?
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: Very disappointed in him. I was like, who are you
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: that you don't know?
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: He was like, I've never. Who did I marry? How
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: did you not?
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: Who did I marry?
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: How did you not know so good to good? And
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: he was just like, I've never heard this before.
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: You should have given it to the DJ at the wedding.
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: If you had done it, you could have solved that
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: problem before it started.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: I know. Who doesn't know that? I'm so in love
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: with Clay. I'm sorry. I'm just going to say. It's
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: been a very long day. I'm delirious. I'm really just
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: so in love.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: That walk took it out of you.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: I'm so in love with you because I feel like
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: we get so many people who are media trained, and
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you've gone through so much media training. You
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: don't give a fuck, girl. I don't. That's exactly what
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: it was. I did some of the other night.
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: So I had to do this listening party. My management
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: is up there nodding because I had to do this
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: listening party last night for.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: That new album. We let people hear it for the
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: first time.
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: And the songs on the album are, and I'm going
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: to be real cheesy, It is very personal because every
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: other album I had, they.
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: Handed me the songs. They said, here's what you're going
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: to sing.
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: And I, this is the first time I actually said, okay, here's.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: What I want to say. I'm kind of older and
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: mature now. I know a few things.
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: I'm going to, here's what I want to talk about.
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: And so I got to really create them. But for
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: the listening part of the idea was they're going to
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: tell the stories of the songs. And then let people
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: hear the album for the first time.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know the lyrics to some of this shit.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: Because I recorded it. I recorded them. And then after
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: we recorded them, we put them in the can. I mean,
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: they're great.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: And I will.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll probably know them by the time we do tour. Yeah.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: But I don't know them now. So we recorded them.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: We did them.
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: And then last night, they gave me the list of songs.
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: And we're going to talk to this room full of
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: some people.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: Oh, my God.
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: And I had to tell stories.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: And I was like, Make it up. I was pulling
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: it out of my ass. Damp.
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: I mean, I knew the songs, but I would, we'd start,
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: I'd tell the little story and then we'd play it.
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: And then I'd go sit down and listen while I,
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: and I was, I was like, oh damn, if I
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: had remembered this was a lyric, I could have said
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: such and such because I didn't remember anything. And somebody
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: said to me afterwards, like, God, you really know how
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: to work a room. And I was like, cause I
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: don't give a shit.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: You don't give a shit. And it's so refreshing. I'm
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: just gonna do it. Before we were going to talk
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: to you, I was just looking at videos. I went
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: on TikTok, went on Instagram. I was like, let me
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: just search Clay Aiken and see what comes up. There
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: are so many clips of you just in interviews saying
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: things that I'm like, I know he got a publicist.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: That's why I have to have chaperones. I know. I
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: was like, I know we got a call from a
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: publicist after this clip. But, I mean.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: There comes a point in one's life, right?
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: When you stop caring.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: But you have to. It's like almost a matter of survival.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean? And I say this
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: all the time to people. Like, I feel like I
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: stop every year. Taraji P. Henson, who we love, she
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: was being interviewed and she said that her feeling is
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: that we are all born with a certain amount of
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: fucks to give. And as you get older, you lose them.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: I'm out.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: Right. And so by the time... you're like in your forties,
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: I don't give a shit. Like I am going to
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: tell you what I think. And if you can either
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: accept it or not, either way, I am going to
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: stand in my truth. Like, because really, I.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: Don't know what that part meant, but standing my truth.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: But standing your truth. Like, I'm going to tell you
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: what I think. And I don't care if you like
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: it or not.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: That's what I mean.
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: Well, I think, I think if I'm being, let's, is
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: there an account for me to lie on here?
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: So I spent several years, a few years. I didn't know.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: I was, I mean, Let's all take a breath. He's
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: going to say it. I'm going to say it. You're gay.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: I didn't know I was gay until I was on it. Right.
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: I know you all knew before me, but I tell
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: people I came out, America knew before I did, but
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: I didn't, I did not quite like, I didn't know
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: what it meant growing up in North Carolina. I'd heard
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: the word. I didn't quite know what it meant. And
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: I was like, I know I'm not, I mean, I
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: know I'm nobody's lumberjack or anything, you know what I mean?
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: And so it wasn't until I got to LA and
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: I met pokes. And then I, so I kind of
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: had to figure it out in the world.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: And, and, never wanted to lie and say I wasn't
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: because by the time I was being interviewed, I knew
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: I was, but I hadn't told my mother.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, I hadn't figured it all out. So I
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: was trying.
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: So I spent many years doing press. always knowing the
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: question was going to come and always being ready for it.
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: And I am a master of, you can ask me
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: any way you want to, and I know how to
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: answer you without telling you a lie.
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: And also not telling you the truth. Well, you're a lawyer,
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: you know. So I did that for a while.
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: And then not too many years after I came out,
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: I was somehow all of a sudden running for office
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: and needing to know how to be prepared in an
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: interview to answer a question. And when I finished it,
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: the first campaign I did, I won't say mistakenly, I
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: just let them do it.
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: I didn't care. Some people followed and did a documentary
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: about my first campaign. And I've only.
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: Watched 75% of it because I got so uncomfortable.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: They did a really good job. It was very raw.
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: And I ran during the period when same-sex marriage had
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: been banned in every state, but the Fourth Circuit had
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: overturned it right away. while I was running in a
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: very redder than this district.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: And I just knew, I.
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: Was like, son of a bitch, of course these people
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: are going to screw this up and make this campaign
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: about something it's not about. And I did a debate
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: with the opponent because that bitch couldn't hide from me.
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: But I did a debate with her.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: And of course the question was, you know, the fourth
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: circuit has overturned it. How do you feel?
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: And I I'm embarrassed to even say it now, but
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: it's on camera, so I have to. I answered some
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: sort of milky ass, well, you know, the Supreme Court
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: has not weighed in yet. And of course, we need
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: to wait and see what the Supreme Court says. And
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: then we'll discuss it then. I mean, I did some
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: sort of crap. And watching it back, I just felt
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: sick to my stomach. And I thought to myself, wait
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: a second, who was I saying? The people who don't
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: like the gays, what are they going to be like? Oh, well,
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: I'll vote for him.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: They weren't going to do that.
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: And the people who needed me to say, they couldn't
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: have been happy, right?
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: Like, who was I? And I watched that and it
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: was honest to God then. I mean, I had finished running.
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: It was all over. Yeah.
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: I'd come in second, which I'm very good at. And
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: I knew that it was, I was not going to,
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: I didn't think I was going to do it. And
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: I watched and I thought, God, I didn't. I don't
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: ever want to be like that. And now when I
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: watch other people answer questions, I get real pissed at
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: them for not just being that way. And I told
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: myself then, I'll probably get in more trouble for telling
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: the truth, but I just don't ever want to be scripted.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: I always say that. The only person that you have
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: to impress is the only thing you have to do that,
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: like when I wake up in the morning and I
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: decide what I'm going to do or focus my attention
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: or put my energy towards, is I want to be
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: able to look at myself in the mirror that night
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: and be happy with the choices I made or where
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: I put my energy.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: Now, now.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: But I want to be able to feel like, okay,
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: I did right by me and I made myself proud
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: and that's who I'm here for. I don't want to
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: look in the mirror and be like, you fucking sold out, kid.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: Or look at myself and be like, You didn't take
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: a stand on that thing or, you know, you didn't
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: or whatever. You threw your friend under the bus or
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: whatever it was that day that came up. I'm just like,
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: be good with yourself when you get home tonight.
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: Listen, I don't think that I, when I watch back
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: and I feel like I didn't, I understand what my
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: goal was.
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: It was a larger goal. It was a bigger. And
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: hindsight's 20-20. But you also, I mean, I guess my
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: point is I spent.
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: I certainly didn't grow up in the public eye because
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: I was 24 when I did Idol. I was not
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: young by any stretch.
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: What? I mean, listen. You weren't like a child. I
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: wasn't a kid.
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: Listen, you look at the pop stars who like the
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: Backstreet Boys and Britney Spears.
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: I mean, they were teenagers. Right, I know. But 24.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: Ruben and I are probably the, I think Taylor Hicks
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: is older than Ruben. But I think other than that,
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: he's the oldest winner. Wow.
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: And we're the same age. And yeah, so whenever we're
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: around other idle people, we feel ancient. You can hear
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: our knees as we're walking. And I, so I didn't
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: grow up in it, but I grew into myself in it.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: And it's weird to think we are now, I.
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: Need to do the math, but I hate it. So
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: it's a, we're right around the next few months. Ruben
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: and I talked the other day, he just had a
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: birthday that we are, Almost to the point where we've
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: lived more of our life after Idle than we did before.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: And so we are, you know, like, I don't have
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: a choice. I don't get to stop being me.
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: So I just need to stop. It becomes somewhat exhausting
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: to try to be very careful with your words.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: It's going to get me in trouble. I promise you.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: But also, you were baptized by fire at 24 in
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: early 2000s reality TV. Yeah. What a world that was.
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, just looking back on general reality TV pre,
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: I would say 2010 was like an ethical nightmare. Are
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: we about to get in an argument? What do you mean?
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, the way the media treated reality TV back
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: then versus now, the things we were having reality stars
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: do back, not back then, but like at the time.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: We're having people eat bugs and animals and shit. Don't
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: you know they signed up for it? I mean, I know.
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: Listen, I agree with you. Listen, I've just recently gone
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: back and watched a few of the episodes of Idol
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: because you can't find it anywhere.
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: But I got some. Holy shit. The things Simon said
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: to me were just fucking mean.
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: I was talking to somebody about that. He was, you know,
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: I so I was not a huge Idol watcher. But
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: mostly because– I'm sorry. Let me just tell you why.
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: Mostly because– I watched. Mostly because the beginning of it
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: was hard when they had the people who really couldn't sing.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: And then they would go there sort of.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: And I felt like– Who's that for?
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: Well, right. They were putting people out there in order
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: to humiliate them for the laughs, right? And then Simon
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: was really mean to people. And it made me very uncomfortable.
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: So I would never– I would only get into it
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: when it was like the top 10 people who really
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: could sing and had a chance. And so by then,
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: I was not as invested as other people who had
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: been watching it from the beginning were. Do you know
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: what I mean? That's what it was. And I just,
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: I hated that. I don't like to see people be
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: dragged and be humiliated that way. That's why I didn't
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: like it.
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: There was a period, I think, in the first seasons, one, two, three,
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: where I didn't mind it. Because a lot of people
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: showed up with a little more confidence than they needed.
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: And there were later seasons when people were, I think
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: they probably, and they've stopped doing it, obviously. they ran
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: out of people who had too much confidence and they
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: started ending up with a lot of people who really
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: probably had either a disability or were vulnerable. And that's
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: when it became very uncomfortable for me and I did
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: not like that.
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: But in the beginning, I stood in line with a
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: few people who needed some truth.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: And those folks, I was fine with seeing cut down
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: a bit because they.
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: Walked in thinking their shit did not stink.
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: Right, right, right.
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: But I understand what you're saying because there was a time,
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: I mean, I went back and I went back and
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: guest judged for some things and they wanted, because I don't,
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: I'll say what I think and I thought I'll be
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: honest and there are a lot of people who came in,
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: the people with too much confidence realized they should stay
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: their ass at home because they're going to get made
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: fun of and the people who were showing up tended
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: to be folks who had neurodivergent people. And I was like, well,
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: I'm definitely not going to criticize them. And for that reason,
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: Idol has gotten a lot softer. But I will say,
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: I went back, I saw some of the things he
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: said to me, and I was like, damn, I must
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: be repressing some stuff. I don't remember some of these really,
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: really mean things. But I didn't go in blind.
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: I knew what he was like. I knew that it
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: was going to be rough. And, and we also knew
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: that he was not a mean person and he was
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: doing stuff for TV. Right.
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: And we all held our breath right before he spoke,
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: but we knew his, his, he carried weight.
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: And I, I know that there's, I mean, there has
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: been a reckoning right in the last, especially the last
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: few years of, of early 2000 stuff. And I do think, yeah,
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: a lot of people, we, we want, I wanted to
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: be on TV. Yeah.
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: And, I don't think Idol was as harsh as maybe
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: some other things were, but it was the avenue that
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: we had to. We didn't have Instagram. There's a lot
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: of other ways to go now. And that's probably why
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: a lot of these shows had to soften. Because if
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: I can become famous on Instagram, I'm not going to
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: go and let somebody be nasty to me. So they
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: have to soften up. But back then, that was the path.
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: And if you.
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: If you wanted to marry a millionaire, then you had
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: to go on Joe Millionaire and find out that he, well,
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: you got, right? And if you wanted to be a model,
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: you were going to go this direction on top model.
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: And I don't think anybody, listen, TV was harsh back then.
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: But most folks, in my opinion, traded the, vulnerability of
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: being in front of Simon Cowell for the possibility of
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: being Kelly Clarkson.
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: Right? Yeah.
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: And so I would not have too much sympathy for
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: anyone who I heard from Idol, at least.
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: Well, not in The Apprentice, and I have sympathy for you.
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: But I....
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: If someone from Idol came and got upset today about
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: how mean Simon Cowell was to them, it would fall
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: on deaf ears for me because I would say, you
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: knew what it was and you wanted this bad enough
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: that you were willing to. No one surprised you. But also,
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: as I mentioned earlier, I'm a hard ass.
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: I love this so much. So please plug. What would
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: you like to plug? Just plug your album. This is
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: all I came for.
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: Hold on.
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That's your camera.
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: That's your camera. That's right.
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: Listen, I've come back to do something that, like I said,
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: only marketable talent. And I think I do okay on it.
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: But it is also the album that I am probably
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: most proud of because I really was involved in it.
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: And And we talked about the Christmas. I mean, it's
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: been a pretty big week. My feet are very sore
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: right now.
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: From walking all over New York City and promoting stuff
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: and doing it in this entirely new world. No Instagram
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: last time I did an album. No Spotify. No iHeartRadio app.
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: None of that existed. And so I'm.
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: Having to learn a whole new world.
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: And I mean, I suck at it. I mean, no,
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: you're doing great. I don't think I've ever mentioned the
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app. I think you just made I heart very happy. Oh,
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: well listen, I know how to do this. Text the
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: number on the screen if you wanna vote for Clay.
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: I am a professional. I disagree.
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: I may sound like I'm not scripted, but I hit
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: my talking points, dammit.
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna disagree with you and say that I think
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: you do this very well because I have been following
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: you on social media.
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: But I don't do it.
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: What do you mean?
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: I have youngins.
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: I have young kids who are half my age who
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: are just phenomenal. And they've done such a wonderful job
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: of saying, stand here, do this or this or whatever
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: with your hands, say this, lip sync this.
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: And I go.
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: Okay, fine.
• 51:35
  Speaker 3: And I say it, and they post it and edit it,
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: and it's brilliant.
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: But it's you, though. It's you are doing it. Maybe
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: somebody else is producing it for you.
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: Only because I have not figured out how to get
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: AI to do it.
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: You're the talent baby. You're the talent baby.
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: The minute I can figure out how to chat GPT
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: all this, I'm out.
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: We've got to get you on Traders. We've got to
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: get you in that castle.
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: God, you know what? I think I've done enough competing.
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: Agreed.
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: And losing. I'm not a competitive person, which is crazy.
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: I really am not.
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: I did Idol because someone nagged me into doing it.
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: I did do Apprentice because, I mean, I got asked
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: to do Dancing with the Stars.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: I've been asked to do all these things.
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: And I did Apprentice, one, because you were talking about
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: doing random stuff, like choosing your own adventure. And I
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: like to do things that let people see me in
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: a way that they didn't expect. And I was like, oh,
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: I'm smarter than all these people, so I'm going to
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: do Apprentice. And so I did it because I thought
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: I'd do well at it. I don't know if I'd
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: want to do traders because I feel like I would
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: probably be too good at it.
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: And then people wouldn't think I was nice anymore. Fuck, Clay.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: That's the craziest reason to not do it. Because you
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: would just tear people up. Just eat them up. I
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: think people would find out how much of a little
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: shit I am. Yeah.
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: I think I love you more.
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: Than ever now. Yeah, I think that would be the
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: reason why everyone would love and watch. No, but I
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: don't want people to know the truth.
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: But you're saying it right now. Do you know what
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: I mean?
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: I know, but everybody's listening thinking... He's probably joking a little.
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: He's secretly really nice.
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: And then they see you tear someone apart and shred.
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: I got asked to do Celebrity Big Brother also. And
• 53:23
  Speaker 3: I will say that's one of the few that I watch.
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: I really am not a competitive person.
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: I'm not.
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: I mean, I'm best friends with the guy who beat me.
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: I am.
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: Very good friends with Arsenio Hall, who beat me. And
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: I'm starting a podcast with that bitch that beat me
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: for Congress.
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: So, I mean, I'm kidding.
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: I'm not. Oh, I was like, wow!
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: That would be incredible! I was saying, like, where is
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: the podcast? Do you think you're better than the podcasters
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: of the world? Like, where's the podcast? We need a
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: podcast from you. No, you don't. No, you don't.
• 53:54
  Speaker 3: No, if I had my own podcast, I wouldn't come
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: share my joy with everybody else.
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: Oh, thanks. I wouldn't be able to. I'd have to
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: save it all for mine. I wouldn't be able to
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: go on your show. I couldn't share it.
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: I just, I feel like, I feel like competitions for me,
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: I've done enough of them.
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: Agreed. But, but I'm going to try to watch. Okay.
• 54:12
  Speaker 3: I'm going to try to watch and I'm going to
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: wish you very, I mean, obviously know how the sausage
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: is made. You obviously know what's happening and he's an attorney,
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: so he knows he can't say a thing. So I
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: wish you, I wish you incredible luck. Hopefully you were
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: there the whole time.
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: People are asking, people ask me for photos. I said,
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: do you want like a devious face or a smile?
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: When we stop for selfies. Because Traitors is all about,
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: you know, the secret villainous. Oh, right.
• 54:34
  Speaker 3: I did well on Apprentice because I was able to
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: fly under the radar. And I knew how to play
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: the game that you have to be a little.
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: I knew how to screw people over. Did people underestimate you?
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: Oh, hell yes. Thy entire life has been based on
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: underestimation and being able to overcome it. I can see that.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: That's a superpower. Superpower.
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: I walk into court and people are like, here's the
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: little gay boy coming in to argue the case. And
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: then I eat him for fucking lunch. Hello.
• 55:02
  Speaker 3: Right. But see, that's the other reason I don't know
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: if I would want to do it. Because if I
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: did very well on it, then it'd all be over
• 55:09
  Speaker 3: for me. Everything would be over for me.
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: Do you think the illusion would be gone?
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: Of underestimating.
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that people, when they think of you,
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: the voice, and sort of you.
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: Seem very- Right. Which is what I did for Simon Cowell.
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Right.
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: And you seem very approachable, right? So I wonder if you- Clay. But, no.
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: My manager is over here biting on a beta blocker.
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: You know, then the illusion would be gone, right? Like, oh,
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: Clay actually isn't that approachable.
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: He's actually- I hope I am. I think I am.
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: I think I'm too approachable sometimes. Oh, my God.
• 55:49
  Speaker 3: But I think people think I'm stupid. You may not
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: because you're smart.
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: We know you. And you've been here. You've known me
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: for five minutes and you're like, this motherfucker.
• 55:58
  Speaker 3: But I do think people think I'm a little bit
• 56:00
  Speaker 3: more naive. I'm stuck at 24 with a lot of people.
• 56:04
  Speaker 3: 40 million people watch that show. You know, you can't
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: see my season of Idol anywhere. It doesn't exist. From
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: the time the show was over, you can't find it.
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: Why is that? Do we think?
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: Well, because the internet didn't exist back then. One, YouTube
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: wasn't a thing when I was on Idol. And two,
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: it's licensing.
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: You can't find it.
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: So the music, they don't do repeats. They did a
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: weird little repeats thing in syndication for a little bit
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: one time, but it's not on YouTube. You can find
• 56:32
  Speaker 3: individual performances here, but you can't find the show anywhere.
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: You also can't find The Apprentice anywhere.
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: For many reasons. Yes, for many reasons.
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: But it's crazy that no one, like, It's crazy to
• 56:43
  Speaker 3: me that people still even know my name 23 years later.
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: It's not like Friends or 30 Rock. You can go
• 56:50
  Speaker 3: back and watch repeats of it. And it's always existing somewhere.
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: The show was so big, so enormous that season. I
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: think our finale was still the highest rated episode of
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: it ever. And it was so big that there's never
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: going to be a TV audience that big again. And
• 57:08
  Speaker 3: for that reason, I am frozen at 24 for a
• 57:11
  Speaker 3: lot of people.
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: That image is frozen in people's minds. And so that's
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: very difficult to overcome. I'm not complaining about it because
• 57:20
  Speaker 3: if I hadn't been on the show when I was
• 57:22
  Speaker 3: on it, then I wouldn't be here today, all that.
• 57:25
  Speaker 3: But a lot of, I had a, so I had
• 57:28
  Speaker 3: to get my wisdom teeth taken out a few years
• 57:30
  Speaker 3: ago and.
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: The dentist left one in. There's a reason.
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: I mean, he had something else he was worried about
• 57:37
  Speaker 3: and he finally got past that and he was like, phew,
• 57:40
  Speaker 3: and he forgot to take the other one out.
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: No.
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he forgot to take the other one out and
• 57:43
  Speaker 3: I went home completely drugged up and blah, blah, blah.
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: When I was coming to.
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: My tongue, I was like, oh, damn it. My tooth
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: is still there.
• 57:53
  Speaker 3: And I called the dentist or I had my assistant
• 57:56
  Speaker 3: call and they argued with her and said, no, he
• 57:57
  Speaker 3: didn't do that. And I called back, got on the phone.
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: I said, I need to talk to the dentist. And First,
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: he said, well, that's not true.
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: I did take it out.
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: And then he changed his story on the phone with
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: me and said, well, I told Cheryl that I didn't
• 58:11
  Speaker 3: take it out and we'd have to come back and
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: finish it. And I said, well, hold this on. And
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: I got upset with him. And he said, excuse me,
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: how would your mother feel if she heard you talking
• 58:20
  Speaker 3: to me like that?
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: I said, motherfucker, I'm 45 years old. What do you mean?
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: Why don't we talk about my mother? I don't give
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: a shit. Yes. I am 45. I am 45. Ask me, yeah.
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: What will my mother say? Did she drive me to
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: the appointment? Exactly.
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: But it reminded me that to so many people, I'm 24.
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: And they see me as that little kid. And how
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: would your mother feel?
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, the audacity.
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: Well, she'd probably slap your ass herself.
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: Anything final you want to plug about dates or anywhere
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: to get tickets? Where can people get tickets? Oh, right.
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: The album comes out tomorrow. My first album. Wow.
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: And then I've got the residency in Vegas, my first
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: residency in Vegas for Christmas.
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: Hallelujah. Get in the warm weather. And then I am
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: doing a tour for my first album. solo tour in
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: 12 years. Yeah, it's been a minute. I don't know.
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: I've done a few tours with Ruben, but I am
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: going to hit the road and have all the responsibility
• 59:18
  Speaker 3: on myself.
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: That's really exciting, Clay.
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: Are you excited?
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: Yes, it is.
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: It is exciting. I am excited. I'm excited to be back.
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: I'm a little apprehensive, right?
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: Because, you know, I don't know if they want this
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: old man anymore, but they do. They do. They do.
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: Get your tickets now. And so, yeah, you can get
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: them at clayakin.com. All right.
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us. Thank you for coming. This
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: has been an Exactly Right production recorded at iHeart Studios,
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: hosted by me, Michael Foote.
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: And me, Melissa Malbranch. Our producer is CJ Ferroni.
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: This episode is edited by Mark Schroeder.
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain, and our guest booker
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: is Patrick Kottner.
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: Our theme song was composed by Tom Breifogel with artwork
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: from Charlotte Delarue and Vanessa Lilac, with photography by Brad Obono.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: Brief Recess is executive produced by Karen Kilgariff, Georgia Hardstark,
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: and Danielle Kramer.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: You can find me on Instagram at Department of Redundancy
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: Department or on TikTok at Michael Foote.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: And I'm on both Instagram and TikTok as Melissa Malbranch.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: Got legal questions? Reach out at briefrecess at exactlyrightmedia.com. Listen
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: to Brief Recess on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. And of course, we're a
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: podcast with video. Search for Brief Recess on YouTube.