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Princess Diana Look-alike Mom Shoots Her Three Little Children Point Blank · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Three children shot, Mommy shot
0:18
Speaker 1: as well. What evil doer would flag Mommy down then
0:24
Speaker 1: unload a hail of bullets into the car? Crime Stories
0:36
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. On a late night in May nineteen
0:44
Speaker 1: eighty three, Diane Downs arrives at McKenzie william At Hospital
0:47
Speaker 1: in a blood splattered vehicle. In the backseat, her three
0:50
Speaker 1: children have been shot. Seven year old Cheryl is dead,
0:53
Speaker 1: three year old Danny and eight year old Christie are
0:55
Speaker 1: barely alive, but doctors are able to save them. Danny
0:59
Speaker 1: is paralyzed from the waist down. Christy has a stroke
1:01
Speaker 1: resulting from her injuries, and she's unable for some time
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Speaker 1: to speak. Downs herself has been shot in the left forearm.
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Speaker 1: Your three children shot, one left paralyzed, one gets a
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Speaker 1: stroke and can't speak. A third child dies. Joining me
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Speaker 1: an all star panel, Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of
1:20
Speaker 1: Red Flags on Amazon and host of Today with Doctor
1:25
Speaker 1: Wendy KCBQ San Diego with Me, Doctor Jory Crass and
1:29
Speaker 1: police psychologist faculty Saint Leo University. Author of Operation s
1:34
Speaker 1: o S Practical Recommendations to Stop Officers Suicide. Dan Corsantino,
1:40
Speaker 1: joining US former police chief and sheriff, also formerly with
1:44
Speaker 1: US Homeland Security, now at Dan Korsantino dot com. Private investigations.
1:51
Speaker 1: Doctor Tim Gallagher the medical examiner for the entire state
1:56
Speaker 1: of Florida. You can find him at PATHCAREMD dot com.
1:59
Speaker 1: But joy me right now from crime online dot com.
2:03
Speaker 1: Levi Page, Levi Page, the mom shot, the three children's shot.
2:08
Speaker 1: She barely makes it to the emergency room. Who why, where? When? Why?
2:13
Speaker 1: Where did this happen? Let's start with that. This is
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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty three, Springfield, Organ, and we're talking about Diane Down.
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Speaker 1: She's twenty seven years old, a postal worker, a divorcee,
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Speaker 1: and she's driving down a road. She says that she's
2:30
Speaker 1: speeding to the er in Springfield, Organ. Inside her car
2:34
Speaker 1: it's blood soaked because she and her kids have been shot.
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Speaker 1: According you know, Wendy Patrick, I don't know if you
2:42
Speaker 1: noticed it. When Levi Page is giving us the initial
2:45
Speaker 1: facts of the shootings, mom and three children all shot
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Speaker 1: in the car, when he had to point out she's
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Speaker 1: a divorcee. Why why does that matter? Why is it
3:01
Speaker 1: when women are described they're so often described as basically,
3:07
Speaker 1: you know, a tramp a divorce that it just kind
3:11
Speaker 1: of like puts a slant on the whole thing. It
3:14
Speaker 1: really does Nancy right from the beginning, and that it's
3:16
Speaker 1: unfortunate that we describe people certain ways because we have
3:20
Speaker 1: this hesitancy that we're almost afraid that there's going to
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Speaker 1: be a stigma attached to one's status, whether it's single,
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Speaker 1: whether it's divorced, whether it's you know, unmarried or widowed.
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Speaker 1: And the problem is when you're describing a crime that
3:33
Speaker 1: some might think that has something to do with why
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Speaker 1: you've been victimized or why you might be a suspect.
3:38
Speaker 1: And on the other hand, and Levi Page's defense, very
3:42
Speaker 1: often when women and children are targeted, it's by the
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Speaker 1: male member of the family. I n ex husband, boyfriend, lover.
3:51
Speaker 1: But I do find that very interesting, Levi Page. You
3:54
Speaker 1: can put that in your pipe and smoke it for
3:58
Speaker 1: a few moments. In the mean time, take a listen
4:01
Speaker 1: to our friend Detective Doug Welsh. Diane was driving down
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Speaker 1: the road in this direction, she said, a stranger appeared
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Speaker 1: and flagged her down. She stopped her car, stepped out
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Speaker 1: with the door open, and said, what's the problem. He replied,
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Speaker 1: I want your car, she said, you've got to be kidding,
4:28
Speaker 1: at which time she claims that he pushed her aside,
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Speaker 1: leaned in the vehicle, and shocked the children. She claims
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Speaker 1: to have fake throwing her car keys off in the field.
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Speaker 1: He fired the weapon and struck her in the left forearm.
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Speaker 1: She then pushed him away and jumped in her car, and,
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Speaker 1: according to her version, roared off down the road to
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Speaker 1: the hospital. To Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor and author of
5:03
Speaker 1: Red Flags, you know when we see a carjack case,
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Speaker 1: I've prosecuted any of them. I'm sure you have too.
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Speaker 1: What they want is the car. The perp wants the car.
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Speaker 1: It's very rare that we see a perp unleasha hell
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Speaker 1: of bullets on children. That's exactly right, Nancy. When you
5:21
Speaker 1: look at the motive for committing a crime, it's usually
5:24
Speaker 1: one or the other. If you're going to steal a car,
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Speaker 1: you need wheels. You don't need to leave victims in
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Speaker 1: your wake, especially not with ballistics that are very easily traceable.
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Speaker 1: So when you look at what happened here, it doesn't
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Speaker 1: seem consistent with a carjacker to kill three children just
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Speaker 1: to steal a car. I could see him shooting mommy,
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Speaker 1: because every carjack case I've had and there was a
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Speaker 1: murder involved ended up being a felony murder. Although I
5:49
Speaker 1: think it's a malice murder. But I could see him
5:52
Speaker 1: shooting the mom the sheet, or and kicking the kids out,
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Speaker 1: or taking off with the children in the back seat,
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Speaker 1: sometimes but not gunning down that children, all of them,
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Speaker 1: many of them sustaining multiple gunshot wounds. Guys, take a
6:05
Speaker 1: listen to k e z I TV producer Shaun Choppy.
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Speaker 1: The side panels of the car were covered in blood.
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Speaker 1: There was a young girl in the front passenger seat,
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Speaker 1: another young girl and a small boy who they could
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Speaker 1: hear gasping for air in the back. All three were
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Speaker 1: soaked in blood. The girl in the back seat, Cheryl,
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Speaker 1: was dead. Would I see most of blood coming out
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Speaker 1: of Christie's mouth, because that's what I see. I can't
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Speaker 1: see Danny and I can't see sharing his lamb on
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Speaker 1: the floor. Medix quickly went to work on the other
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Speaker 1: two children, who were still alive, and then what doctors
6:43
Speaker 1: call nothing short of a miracle. Both children were saved,
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Speaker 1: despite Christy having been shot in the chest and Danny
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Speaker 1: in the back. You know, shooting in the bat is
6:55
Speaker 1: very difficult to take in. How did that happen with
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Speaker 1: the child in the back seat, We understand one child
7:00
Speaker 1: out curled up in the front seat. To doctor Tim Gallagher,
7:03
Speaker 1: how does a gunshot wound produce a stroke? Well, it's
7:07
Speaker 1: very easy for a gunshot wound to cause a stroke.
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Speaker 1: If the gun if the bullet goes through a bone,
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Speaker 1: it can release some of the bone marrow that is
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Speaker 1: within the interior portion of that bone into the bloodstream.
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Speaker 1: That bone marrow can travel to the brain and block
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Speaker 1: one of the arteries. And if the artery to the
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Speaker 1: brain is blocked, that part of the brain dies, and
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Speaker 1: that is what we would perceive as being a stroke.
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Speaker 1: That part of the brain that functions would be disabled,
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Speaker 1: and that the speech or the motion that that part
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Speaker 1: of the brain contents that that part of the brain
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Speaker 1: provides will no longer be functioning. And that's what we
7:52
Speaker 1: can perceive as a stroke. Because typically when you agree,
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Speaker 1: doctor Tim Gallagher that a stroke and a child is
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Speaker 1: very unusual, a very unusual and a healthy child. Absolutely,
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Speaker 1: this child did not have a record of any coagulation
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Speaker 1: of problems in their blood. They did not have a
8:10
Speaker 1: history of stroke in their path, so this would be
8:14
Speaker 1: a direct result of the gunshot injury. So I've got
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Speaker 1: one child dead, one paralyzed, and one suffers a stroke.
8:35
Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about
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Speaker 1: three children and Mommy gunned down on the side of
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Speaker 1: the road. Would be carjacker. Mommy tricks the carjacker and
8:47
Speaker 1: takes off to the ear bleeding herself. Take a listen
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Speaker 1: to k e z I TV Sean choppy Danny is
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Speaker 1: just crying real, real soft, so that sound stays in
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Speaker 1: my mind. And the fact that Christie's choking down told
9:00
Speaker 1: police a shaggy haired stranger had waved them down. He
9:03
Speaker 1: pulled a gun on them, asked for the keys, and
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Speaker 1: when Downs refused to hand them over, opened fire on
9:08
Speaker 1: all three children. The gun kept firing and firing and firing,
9:12
Speaker 1: and it made it was monotonous. It just kept going.
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Speaker 1: It was like a slow motion picture. An emergency APB
9:21
Speaker 1: was issued and the man hunt was on. APB issued
9:26
Speaker 1: man hunt on, guys, how did these three children and
9:31
Speaker 1: mommy and up riddled with bullets simply driving along in
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Speaker 1: a rural area. Back to you, Leavipage Crime online dot
9:41
Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter, tell me about the area where this happened. Yes, So,
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Speaker 1: Diane had taken her children to a friend's house and
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Speaker 1: they were riding horses and seeing her friend's horse, and
9:54
Speaker 1: she said that she was coming back home and she
9:57
Speaker 1: was driving down a dark, herded country road and that's
10:02
Speaker 1: when this bushy haired stranger came out in front of
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Speaker 1: a vehicle. She stopped, got out to see what he wanted,
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Speaker 1: and that's when he said, I want your car, and
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Speaker 1: he shot her and her kids, leaving one dead, two
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Speaker 1: of them clinging delights from the hospital with me. A
10:20
Speaker 1: psychologist at Faculty Saint Leo University, doctor Joey craws In
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Speaker 1: Dodger Crawsen, I mean you got to want that car
10:29
Speaker 1: a lot to gun down three kids and the mother.
10:33
Speaker 1: I guess in the heat of the moment, people lose
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Speaker 1: control and panic and start shooting all for a car
10:39
Speaker 1: and it's not even a new car. Yeah, that really
10:42
Speaker 1: made no sense whatsoever, you know, to like a logical
10:46
Speaker 1: thinking person like you say you want the car, You're
10:49
Speaker 1: just not going to shoot the children. Your most lineous
10:53
Speaker 1: threat would be the driver, the mother, the adult. That's
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Speaker 1: the one that you would shoot to kill the children
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Speaker 1: you could put out alongside the road and drive off
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Speaker 1: with the car. Oh. Absolutely, And this happened in a
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Speaker 1: very rural area in Springfield, Oregon. And when I say rural,
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Speaker 1: no stop signs, no red lights, no street lights, it's
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Speaker 1: a city in Lane County, Oregon, near in the southern
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Speaker 1: Williamette Valley. It's off Interstate five. Now, when you look
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Speaker 1: at a crime like this to Wendy Patrick, when I
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Speaker 1: say it's off an interstate, even though it itself is
11:33
Speaker 1: a rural area, the interstate will play a role in this.
11:38
Speaker 1: Let me point out Shasta and Dylan Gronee, who lived
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Speaker 1: in a very rural area with their mom and her
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Speaker 1: boyfriend in Cord Delane, Idaho. If you fly over their
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Speaker 1: home in a helicopter, you see nothing but green, but
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Speaker 1: an interstate was nearby, and a killer drove by happened
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Speaker 1: to glance over and in the distance though the trees
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Speaker 1: saw Shasta at an above ground pool, pulls in kills
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Speaker 1: the whole family to kidnap and molest Shasta and Dylan,
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Speaker 1: ultimately killing Dal and Shasta survived. So rural doesn't mean
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Speaker 1: safety like it used to me. Wendy Patrick. Oh, that's
12:22
Speaker 1: absolutely true. You know, rural sometimes, especially as you mentioned,
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Speaker 1: if it's close to an interstate, that's an escape route.
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Speaker 1: That is a place that a criminal can go and
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Speaker 1: find a remote area without a lot of witnesses, which
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Speaker 1: is also one of the things that could make a
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Speaker 1: rural area dangerous. Commit a crime and then get right
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Speaker 1: back on the industry and escape into oblivion. You know,
12:42
Speaker 1: that is one of the reasons. Sadly, as you and
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Speaker 1: I know that some criminals choose rural areas close to interstates,
12:49
Speaker 1: is this an easy way to commit a crime not
12:51
Speaker 1: get caught because of the lack of witnesses. According to
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Speaker 1: the last census, there were only fifty nine thousand people
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Speaker 1: living there. Now it's interesting too. Dan Corsentino, former police
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Speaker 1: chief and sheriff, also formerly with Homeland Security, now PI
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Speaker 1: at Dan Coorsentino dot com. Dan, when you think of
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Speaker 1: a rural area, you think of low crime rate, and
13:13
Speaker 1: typically that is true. Typically that is true, and you're
13:18
Speaker 1: also thinking open space, you're thinking isolation, and you're thinking
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Speaker 1: that you would be away from any populated area. So
13:28
Speaker 1: that gives the individual who is the suspect in this case,
13:33
Speaker 1: an opportunity to commit the crime. Take a listen to
13:36
Speaker 1: our friend tie or hunt at crime online dot com.
13:40
Speaker 1: Diane Downs claims she was carjacked on a rural road
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Speaker 1: in Springfield, Oregon. She tells police she and her children
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Speaker 1: were out sight seeing, just driving around. Down says as
13:49
Speaker 1: the children became sleepy, she turned on an unfamiliar country road. There,
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Speaker 1: she was flagged down by a strange man standing in
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Speaker 1: the middle of the road. Down says she was pulled
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Speaker 1: over and got out. That's when the shaggy haired man
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Speaker 1: and demanded her car at gunpoint. Down said she refused,
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Speaker 1: and the man pointed the gun into the car and
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Speaker 1: shot her children. Downs tells police that she fakes throwing
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Speaker 1: her car keys into a field and gets into a
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Speaker 1: brief struggle with the shaggy haired man. She manages to
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Speaker 1: get away and drive to the emergency room. Okay, I
14:16
Speaker 1: know it may sound crazy. Um, let me go to
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Speaker 1: doctor Jerry Cross And doctor Jorry do you have children? Yes?
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Speaker 1: Have you ever just taken them out driving me too?
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Speaker 1: Some nights, you know, after dinner and uh, we've watched
14:32
Speaker 1: every single episode of every show that they like, and
14:36
Speaker 1: they've done their homework and it's still just you know,
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Speaker 1: seven five, especially friends. As at Christmas, we'll go driving
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Speaker 1: around for an hour and a half looking at Christmas lights,
14:47
Speaker 1: or we'll drive around and end up at the frozen
14:51
Speaker 1: custard or the frozen yogurt place, just to change it up.
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Speaker 1: So and we've always done that ever since they were little,
14:59
Speaker 1: you know, let the windows down and drive around, and
15:04
Speaker 1: they love it. We play music. They love that. So
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Speaker 1: that does not seem out of the unusual to me,
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Speaker 1: doctor Jory, that she's out driving around quote sightseeing, No,
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Speaker 1: not at all. And you know, for that rural area,
15:18
Speaker 1: like she said, she got lost and then encountered this. Man,
15:21
Speaker 1: I mean it all fits up to that point, you know.
15:24
Speaker 1: I mean, that's very feasible that that scenario could have
15:28
Speaker 1: happened and transpired. So while the driving around sight seeing
15:34
Speaker 1: makes sense, somehow fragments of facts start adding up to
15:42
Speaker 1: where it doesn't exactly make sense anymore. Take a listen
15:46
Speaker 1: again to our friend at k e z IV, this
15:49
Speaker 1: is sean choppy and we would have a motive to
15:52
Speaker 1: do this, or if it is just some total stranger.
15:55
Speaker 1: As the night wore on, though investigators and hospital staff
15:59
Speaker 1: were stunned, by down demeanor. She was not hysterical, not crying.
16:03
Speaker 1: She even left the hospital to show investigators the location
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Speaker 1: of the shooting. He did not take time to point
16:09
Speaker 1: the gun and shoot me, obviously, because he would have
16:12
Speaker 1: shot me the same way he did the kids. When
16:14
Speaker 1: he was swinging in the direction of the keys, firing
16:17
Speaker 1: the gun, he hit my arm. Everybody says, you sure
16:22
Speaker 1: we're lucky. Well, I don't feel very lucky. I couldn't
16:24
Speaker 1: tie my damn shoes for about two months. Okay, just
16:30
Speaker 1: let that sink in for a moment. It's like a
16:32
Speaker 1: fine wine. You just want to breathe it in, swish
16:37
Speaker 1: it around for a moment. I couldn't tie my damn
16:41
Speaker 1: shoes for two months. Did I hear that? I did hear?
16:44
Speaker 1: Jackie confirms what we did. Hear that her child is dead,
16:51
Speaker 1: one's paralyzed, once had a stroke, and she can't tie
16:55
Speaker 1: her shoes. I mean, as far as I'm concerned, I
16:59
Speaker 1: can just go ahead get the arrest warrant right now.
17:01
Speaker 1: But there's a pescue little thing called evidence. I don't
17:06
Speaker 1: feel lucky. I couldn't tie my shoes for nearly two months.
17:11
Speaker 1: I tried to say it again, I just keep saying
17:14
Speaker 1: it and saying it and listening. It's almost like when
17:17
Speaker 1: Jody Airy is saying, oh Holy night. You just can't
17:20
Speaker 1: get past that moment. I can't really even describe what
17:22
Speaker 1: it is. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We are talking
17:41
Speaker 1: about the cold hearted shootings of three little children, ages eight, seven,
17:51
Speaker 1: and three. The seven year old Cheryl Lynn died and
18:00
Speaker 1: mommy is complaining she couldn't tie her shoes for too much. Okay,
18:06
Speaker 1: right there, Well, we got to investigate mommy. You know
18:10
Speaker 1: it's so interesting, isn't it interesting to you, Dan Corsentino,
18:16
Speaker 1: that one utterance, one sentence can turn an investigation totally around. Absolutely,
18:25
Speaker 1: that was a tipping point in this case as to
18:28
Speaker 1: what her articulation was, if you will. At that point
18:32
Speaker 1: in time, also, I was deeply troubled by the fact
18:36
Speaker 1: that she didn't even cradle her children. There was no
18:40
Speaker 1: attempt to show affection. There was a coolness that existed,
18:45
Speaker 1: and there would have been at that time with the
18:49
Speaker 1: shooting that took place by the stranger in the road,
18:53
Speaker 1: not only an effort for my professional opinion, to go
18:57
Speaker 1: to her children to hold them to cradle, which in
19:00
Speaker 1: term would have had a blood transfer to her garments
19:04
Speaker 1: and her clothing. She didn't do any of those things,
19:08
Speaker 1: you know. Wendy Patrick, prosecutor, author Red Flags, host of
19:13
Speaker 1: Today with Doctor Wendy KCBQ, San Diego. Doctor Wendy, I
19:18
Speaker 1: often rail against the fact that women are held to
19:22
Speaker 1: a higher standard than men. I mean, I didn't hear
19:25
Speaker 1: Leavi Page on any case we've ever covered, say he's
19:29
Speaker 1: a divorce I've never heard that, but he said it
19:31
Speaker 1: today about this woman. So I gave him a little
19:34
Speaker 1: h E double L. But on the other hand, if
19:38
Speaker 1: a mother doesn't even try to hold her child or
19:42
Speaker 1: comfort her child, it's just been shot. I mean, I
19:47
Speaker 1: don't think this is stereotype. There's something wrong with that, Wendy.
19:50
Speaker 1: There is something way wrong with that. It is exactly
19:54
Speaker 1: the opposite of what you would expect an maternal instinct
19:57
Speaker 1: to look for. It is the opposite of what we
19:59
Speaker 1: expect every mother to feel is deep love for her
20:03
Speaker 1: three children. So to behave in the exact opposite fashion
20:07
Speaker 1: is in and of itself highly suspicious. Now, as we know,
20:11
Speaker 1: you need more than that, you need evidence. But that
20:13
Speaker 1: red flag that's waved is so strong that it vary
20:17
Speaker 1: at the very least should draw suspicion onto her. You know,
20:21
Speaker 1: Levi rightly points out that if someone's divorced, you think, well,
20:24
Speaker 1: maybe there's a motive for the X to come after
20:26
Speaker 1: the victim. But if a mother doesn't behave like a mother,
20:30
Speaker 1: then you obviously are going to say she may be
20:33
Speaker 1: more of a descendant, a suspect than a victim. Man,
20:37
Speaker 1: you're not kidding. Let's circle back to our friend tile
20:41
Speaker 1: our hunt at crime online, when Mommy complained she couldn't
20:45
Speaker 1: tire her she is. Cops get wise and they start
20:49
Speaker 1: investigating mommy. Listen. As police began investigating Diane Downs, they
20:53
Speaker 1: uncovered her journals filled with details of her affair with
20:56
Speaker 1: a married man, Robert Knickerbocker. That man, she wrote, did
21:00
Speaker 1: not want children. Prosecutors say that made Downs view her
21:04
Speaker 1: children as a burden. Wow, is this Susan Smith all
21:08
Speaker 1: over again? I mean, think about it. Susan Smith at
21:12
Speaker 1: a rural intersection claims the guy comes up to her
21:16
Speaker 1: car carjackcit with her children strapped in the backseat or
21:20
Speaker 1: two little boys, then ends up driving it into a
21:23
Speaker 1: lake and she makes a very convincing public plea. Now
21:29
Speaker 1: you've got this woman, Diane Downs, just twenty seven years old.
21:36
Speaker 1: The similarities are incredible. Take a listen to our cut
21:42
Speaker 1: seven Inside Edition. Detective Doug Welsh was the original investigator
21:48
Speaker 1: on the case. He has concluded that Diane, although consistently pregnant,
21:52
Speaker 1: was a disinterested mother. Here was a woman who was
21:56
Speaker 1: completely ampathetic about the welfare her kids. She was just
22:01
Speaker 1: emotionally flat hand preoccupied with something else where. Once she
22:07
Speaker 1: had the kids, you know, there was another story. You know, Well,
22:11
Speaker 1: she pleads them like crap, you know, and she didn't
22:13
Speaker 1: treat them. She really didn't treat them very good. So
22:17
Speaker 1: now we're finding out that this affect towards her children
22:21
Speaker 1: existed before she starts the affair with nicker Bocker. What
22:26
Speaker 1: is that? Let me go to psychologist doctor Jerry Crawls
22:30
Speaker 1: in I heard several issues hot spots that jumped down
22:34
Speaker 1: at me during that from Tyler Hunt at Crime Online
22:40
Speaker 1: from Inside Edition, that she was perpetually pregnant and that
22:45
Speaker 1: she developed a flat affect and uncaring attitude towards her children.
22:49
Speaker 1: There's got to be some sort of a mental defect,
22:58
Speaker 1: arcassistic and it's all about her. I mean, you know,
23:03
Speaker 1: even when she was waiting on trial. Remember, she went
23:06
Speaker 1: and got pregnant by somebody on her mail route that
23:09
Speaker 1: she didn't even know, so she was pregnant during the trial.
23:14
Speaker 1: So it all becomes about her, even to the point
23:18
Speaker 1: where she's got a problem. The children are the problem.
23:21
Speaker 1: The easiest way to solve it with her personality is
23:25
Speaker 1: to kill them. The shoot them, eliminate them. You know,
23:28
Speaker 1: it's amazing to me that that was her idea of
23:31
Speaker 1: an alternative. But I also hear straight out to you,
23:36
Speaker 1: Dean Corsentina Foreimer, police Chief. I hear the theory that
23:40
Speaker 1: was also consistent with the Susan Smith murders, that she
23:44
Speaker 1: had a new lover and the lover did not want
23:47
Speaker 1: to be saddled down with additional children, and therefore she
23:51
Speaker 1: had to get rid of them. In this case, this
23:54
Speaker 1: new lover, mister Knickerbocker, was the individual who made a
23:59
Speaker 1: very clear to that he wanted to have no children
24:04
Speaker 1: and have no anchor to any children. So she had
24:08
Speaker 1: a choice to make and it was either her lover
24:11
Speaker 1: or the kids. And with that she started her plan.
24:16
Speaker 1: She started to make a decision on how she was
24:19
Speaker 1: going to solve this issue, and the only option that
24:24
Speaker 1: she came up with was to eliminate her children. Poor Christie,
24:28
Speaker 1: Cheryl and Danny became the victims of the mother's greediness.
24:33
Speaker 1: Very tragic situation. Earlier you were hearing from our friends
24:38
Speaker 1: at Female Killers and now take a listen to our
24:41
Speaker 1: cut number ten. This is Madison Glassman k e Zi
24:46
Speaker 1: May nineteen eighty three. Diane Down speeds into an emergency
24:50
Speaker 1: room at Mackenzie will lamb At Hospital with the bizarre
24:53
Speaker 1: story to tell. She took a dtour off of Marcola
24:56
Speaker 1: Road to do some sight seeing when a bushy haired
24:59
Speaker 1: stranger fla turned down and shot her and her children.
25:02
Speaker 1: A story that was nothing but lies. Diane is being
25:07
Speaker 1: a mother and doing what she did. She has a
25:13
Speaker 1: special place in bizarre murder cases in Lane County. Doug
25:19
Speaker 1: Welch's career was never the same after he was assigned
25:22
Speaker 1: to be the lead investigator of the case that same night.
25:25
Speaker 1: At the time, he had only been a detective for
25:28
Speaker 1: less than three months and had never seen anything like
25:31
Speaker 1: this and hasn't since. Nothing of this magnitude where you've
25:35
Speaker 1: got her mother shooting her kids. You know, it always
25:40
Speaker 1: sticks in everyone's mind. Wendy Patrick when a mother kills
25:44
Speaker 1: her children, and we all have the names, for instance,
25:49
Speaker 1: Andrea Yates at the tip of our tongues. Why is
25:53
Speaker 1: it that we never forget murder moms. Oh, we never
25:58
Speaker 1: forget Nancy because it goes contrary to everything that we
26:03
Speaker 1: expect from parents in society. It's I mean, a mother's
26:06
Speaker 1: bond with her child, as you know, just something that
26:10
Speaker 1: is second to none. So to think that a mother
26:13
Speaker 1: can actually commit the most unspeakable act against her own
26:17
Speaker 1: flesh and blood is something that chilled us to the
26:19
Speaker 1: phone and remains with us for a long time, to
26:22
Speaker 1: the point, as you mentioned, we even remember the names
26:24
Speaker 1: of women that didn't. Yeah, Susan Smith, Andreas Dane Lacy
26:30
Speaker 1: goes on and on the names that stick in our minds,
26:34
Speaker 1: and the stories, crime stories. With Nancy Grace, we are
26:51
Speaker 1: talking about three children riddled with bullets in the back seat.
26:55
Speaker 1: Is mommy drives by a quote shaggy haired stranger that
27:00
Speaker 1: flags Mommy down in the night on a detour off
27:04
Speaker 1: a country road. The facts, seemingly abnormal start to stack
27:09
Speaker 1: up until shocked by Mommy's lack of affect towards her children,
27:15
Speaker 1: they begin investigating Mommy like Susan Smith. Mommy is arrested.
27:22
Speaker 1: Listen to what happens. Doctors took the stand and told
27:26
Speaker 1: stories of a woman who showed up to the hospital
27:28
Speaker 1: with a dead daughter and two other kids clinging to life,
27:32
Speaker 1: yet who shed nary a tear. Jurors were taken to
27:35
Speaker 1: the scene of the crime. A model of the car
27:38
Speaker 1: was brought in. The blood splatters on the outside of
27:40
Speaker 1: the car showing Down shot Shuttle. Outside of the car,
27:43
Speaker 1: we saw pictures of this so called spatter. It's drops
27:49
Speaker 1: when they took the kids. They took Chris and Share
27:51
Speaker 1: out of the driver's side of the car and it's
27:54
Speaker 1: blood droplets. The children's bloody clothes were shown. But the
27:58
Speaker 1: most dramatic and probably most damning evidence came when Christie Downs,
28:02
Speaker 1: now eight years old, took the stand. Down's own daughter
28:06
Speaker 1: testified against her. Christie Downs was asked by prosecutor Fred Huge,
28:10
Speaker 1: do you know who shot Cheryl? Christie said quietly yes.
28:14
Speaker 1: The prosecutor struggled to keep his own composure. Who the
28:17
Speaker 1: young girl sobbed? My mom? Well, that is why perhaps
28:23
Speaker 1: very often kill witnesses, because they can point the finger
28:28
Speaker 1: very accurately in front of a jury straight out to
28:31
Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of red Flags, what do
28:36
Speaker 1: you make of what you just heard? That's from our
28:38
Speaker 1: friends at k e z I. I can only imagine
28:41
Speaker 1: the juror's reaction to seeing that dynamic in the quote room.
28:45
Speaker 1: You know there were no cameras allowed in there, but
28:47
Speaker 1: you can only picture this young girl, this precious young girl,
28:50
Speaker 1: taking the stand and being asked that question. The whole
28:54
Speaker 1: trial probably hinged on that testimony and her answering it. Truthfully,
28:59
Speaker 1: that had to be one of the most tear jerking
29:02
Speaker 1: points of that trial for every single man and woman
29:04
Speaker 1: in that jerry box to see her take the stand
29:07
Speaker 1: in bravely have to say that Leavi page the case,
29:10
Speaker 1: it goes to trial, what happens at trial? Who takes
29:13
Speaker 1: the stand other than the children? So Nancy police officers
29:17
Speaker 1: testify it. One of the biggest aspects of the prosecution's
29:22
Speaker 1: case was that Diane Downs changed her story multiple times.
29:26
Speaker 1: She said that one shaggy haired man came out into
29:29
Speaker 1: the road, then she said that there were multiple men
29:32
Speaker 1: that came out into the road, and at one time
29:34
Speaker 1: she was even blaming corrupt police officers for these killings
29:41
Speaker 1: for the killing of her daughter, so she changed her
29:43
Speaker 1: story multiple times. We also heard about the murder weapon,
29:47
Speaker 1: a point twenty two caliber handgun. She said she did
29:51
Speaker 1: not own one. However, there was evidence that contradicted that
29:56
Speaker 1: they were unable to find the actual murder weapon. They
30:00
Speaker 1: found unfired casings in her homes with ex tractor markings
30:06
Speaker 1: from a point twenty two caliber handgun, and her ex husband,
30:10
Speaker 1: Steve Downs to police she did own a point twenty
30:14
Speaker 1: two caliber handgun, as well as Robert Knickerbucker, the man
30:18
Speaker 1: that she had an affair with. You know do, doctor
30:21
Speaker 1: Tim Gallagher, a medical examiner for the State of Florida.
30:25
Speaker 1: Doctor Gallagher, you have handled so many gunshot wound autopsies.
30:30
Speaker 1: A twenty two caliber is very often described as a
30:33
Speaker 1: woman's gun because it's small. It's a very small easily
30:38
Speaker 1: held in a small hand, and consequently the bullets are
30:42
Speaker 1: small as well. But they can kill well. They sure
30:47
Speaker 1: can Nancy, and the twenty two caliber gun is considered
30:50
Speaker 1: to be a woman's gun because their recoil or the
30:53
Speaker 1: kickback on it, it's almost negligible, so it's very easy
30:56
Speaker 1: to fire, is very easy to aim. The problem is
31:00
Speaker 1: that the bullets don't have a lot of impact, so
31:03
Speaker 1: it is very easy to survive a gunshot wound of
31:08
Speaker 1: the twenty two caliber variety. Then it would be say
31:11
Speaker 1: a nine millimeter or a thirty eight a special or
31:15
Speaker 1: forty caliber gun. So it's not surprising that the children
31:20
Speaker 1: did survive their gunshot wound. You know another thing that
31:24
Speaker 1: we heard earlier, le Vi, I think you may have
31:26
Speaker 1: reported it is that the blood spatter on the outside
31:30
Speaker 1: of the car showed that mommy was outside of the
31:34
Speaker 1: car when she shot in. Is that correct? You're correct, Nancy.
31:39
Speaker 1: You know it's amazing to me to Dean Corsentina, former
31:42
Speaker 1: police chaf what you can tell from ballistics whether the
31:48
Speaker 1: shooter was firing, for instance, from the front seat back.
31:51
Speaker 1: So this would have to mean that mommy got out
31:53
Speaker 1: of the car and had the windows down and started
31:57
Speaker 1: her shooting her children from outside the car. Can you
32:00
Speaker 1: imagine what those children were imagining at the time mommy
32:03
Speaker 1: unloads bullets into the backseat. No, I think the kids
32:07
Speaker 1: were just in total shock. I mean, at that age,
32:11
Speaker 1: there had to be surprised. There had to be a
32:15
Speaker 1: complete emotion that their mother would be harming them in
32:19
Speaker 1: this way. The thought process that she is in at
32:24
Speaker 1: this point certainly was probably from my experience, she was
32:30
Speaker 1: in the state of she had tunnel vision in a sense,
32:35
Speaker 1: and she was focusing on trying to solve her problem
32:41
Speaker 1: so that she could be with her lover. This was
32:43
Speaker 1: her answer, and she found this lonely road to do
32:47
Speaker 1: it on, and these poor children once again were victimized.
32:50
Speaker 1: I bet I know one thing, Minny Patrick. I bet
32:53
Speaker 1: they lover her nothing seen of him but elbows and tailhole.
32:58
Speaker 1: Because if he owned a twenty two and these children
33:01
Speaker 1: were shot with a twenty two, I bet he was
33:04
Speaker 1: ready to point the finger in about thirty seconds flat.
33:08
Speaker 1: Oh can you imagine? Yeah, that's the worst nightmare is
33:11
Speaker 1: somebody accidentally gets fingered in a crime because somebody steals
33:15
Speaker 1: the weapon from you, or take something that belongs to you,
33:17
Speaker 1: or facts matchup when there's actually no connection in reality. Yeah,
33:22
Speaker 1: you can only imagine what ran through his mind at
33:24
Speaker 1: the time, that's for sure. And you're not kidding. So
33:26
Speaker 1: leave my page. After all of this evidence and testimony,
33:30
Speaker 1: what was the jury's decision? So they convicted her, Nancy
33:34
Speaker 1: of murderer and attempted murder, and she was sentenced to
33:38
Speaker 1: a wife in prison plus fifty years. So it wasn't
33:42
Speaker 1: the shaggy here man after all. Take a listen to
33:46
Speaker 1: our friends at Inside Edition that locate murder mom Diane
33:51
Speaker 1: Downs behind bars. We interviewed the real Diane Downs in
33:55
Speaker 1: the New Jersey prison she now calls home. She contends
33:58
Speaker 1: her conviction is wrong. I wouldn't walk in there and
34:01
Speaker 1: say this weird person came about an nowhere and thought
34:04
Speaker 1: us for no reason and just left. I mean, that's
34:07
Speaker 1: not a believable story. I could if I had done it,
34:10
Speaker 1: I could have come up with a believable story. It
34:12
Speaker 1: really happened. The horrid tale is that Diane had divorced
34:16
Speaker 1: her husband and taken on another lover, Robert Knickerbocker, who
34:19
Speaker 1: promised to divorce his wife and Mary Diane. The hurdle,
34:22
Speaker 1: as Diane saw it, was that Robert didn't like or
34:25
Speaker 1: wan children. The believer of the courts is that Diane
34:29
Speaker 1: took her kids out on a lonely road one night
34:31
Speaker 1: and shot them and then herself. She says a man
34:35
Speaker 1: who stopped her car on the road shot her kids.
34:37
Speaker 1: The gun and the man were never found. And you
34:40
Speaker 1: can't discount the fact that the little daughter takes a
34:45
Speaker 1: stand and tells it. You read Mommy shot me, Diane
34:51
Speaker 1: Downs and murder mom in such infamy her story even
34:55
Speaker 1: becomes a movie. Take a listen to this. Millions of
34:59
Speaker 1: a mar Americans watch Farah Fawcett portray the sociopathic mother
35:03
Speaker 1: Diane Downs in the TV mini series Small Sacrifices. It
35:07
Speaker 1: is the story of a mother who heard her own children.
35:10
Speaker 1: It is a story that has riveted the nation for
35:12
Speaker 1: more than six years. In the movie version of the case,
35:16
Speaker 1: as in real life, Diane downs ten year old daughter
35:19
Speaker 1: was the key witness against her mother. Some cases you
35:24
Speaker 1: never forget. Listen to mass and Glassman k z I.
35:30
Speaker 1: It was here on this quiet country road near Springfield
35:33
Speaker 1: where Diane Downs pulled over shot her three children, killing one.
35:38
Speaker 1: Thirty six years later, Well says this case will always
35:41
Speaker 1: be a part of his life. The first murder case
35:44
Speaker 1: you worked. There's there are things that are just burned
35:47
Speaker 1: into your brain that you don't tend to forget. Welts
35:51
Speaker 1: worked on this case for fifteen months, so a lot
35:54
Speaker 1: of us were attached in one way or the other.
36:00
Speaker 1: I certainly was probably closer to an obsession in that time,
36:04
Speaker 1: Welch's wife, tamrous Is the story pulled her into consuming
36:09
Speaker 1: their lives. In the midst of the investigation, Diane really
36:15
Speaker 1: became the fifth member of our household. Douglas, as he said,
36:21
Speaker 1: very involved, even to the point of being obsessed. That
36:25
Speaker 1: obsession fueled by a murderer who was motivated by love,
36:29
Speaker 1: and nothing could stand in her way, not even her
36:32
Speaker 1: own children. We see that justice has unfall diean down
36:38
Speaker 1: still behind bars. Nancy Grace Crime Story, signing off good
36:44
Speaker 1: Bye Friend.