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Crowdfunding Your Podcast Launch (Without Burning Out) with Nicole Havelka · Let's Talk Podcasts from Feminist Podcasters Collective

• Becky Mollenkamp (00:00) Hi, welcome back to I guess we now have a name, Let's Talk Podcasts, which is very creative, for where we highlight people who are in podcasting, specifically members of the Fem Feminist Podcasters Collective and other people doing work in podcasting. And today I'm joined by member Nicole Havelka, whose podcast is Just Rest. and you've been podcasting, I know, for just about a year. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (00:22) I launched in January January first. So the first of the year. Becky Mollenkamp (00:22) You yes, but you've been you've been developing your podcast for a year. Yeah. Yeah. So Nicole Havelka (she/her) (00:28) way longer longer than that. That's probably been like two years if you count development. Becky Mollenkamp (00:32) we'll talk a little bit about actually we'll talk mostly about I think that journey because you did something different than a lot of other people and certainly than anyone else we've had a conversation with, which was doing some crowdfunding to get your podcast off the ground. And I think that could be really interesting to explore. Before we do, I wonder if you could just tell us a little bit about what your show is about. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (00:51) Yeah, so Just Rest, Burnout Tips for Everyday Radicals is a podcaster podcast for change makers who are tired but not giving up. That's how I cat and so it's full of both conversations about the reasons for burnout, about people's burnout journeys, but then also I try to include some practical tips at the end tips for both rest, getting more rest and resisting burnout culture. Becky Mollenkamp (01:20) Excellent. And I wonder if you could well, we'll start with you answering my question that I've asked everyone, which is what's the reason you podcast? Nicole Havelka (she/her) (01:28) The reason I podcast is to create a rest revolution. Becky Mollenkamp (01:32) That sounds very big. And I love that. I love people with big ambitions. So why podcasting? Obviously, anyone can blog, you can use social media. There's like a million ways we can Nicole Havelka (she/her) (01:42) Yeah. Becky Mollenkamp (01:42) market our businesses. And podcasting is certainly one of those, but it's doesn't have to be one. So what was it about? Because you were a drawn to podcasting long before you launched. What was it about the medium Nicole Havelka (she/her) (01:52) Right. Becky Mollenkamp (01:53) that you were interested in and that excited you? Nicole Havelka (she/her) (01:55) I mean, I'm a bananas podcast listener. That was true before I did a podcast. I for me, I think part of the appeal I I I don't think I knew this about myself until like later in life, but I think I'm just an auditory learner, and that's true for a lot of people. Because some people believe you can't learn and remember. I mean, because they just learn differently, they're like, well, you couldn't possibly read a book on audiobook and remember it. I'm like, I remember it better than when I read it, like honestly, visually. So it's just a matter of how it sticks in our brains. And for me, it's podcast listening to podcasts and audiobooks are like, I think a throwback. To being young and people reading to you. And I loved being read to as a kid. For that matter, I mean, I I'm not I'm I'm single and I live alone, so there's no opportunity for regular humans to read to me anymore very often. But like I'd be all about it if there was someone in the room who wanted to do it. So like if that was your jam. I've heard of people doing that. I've never done it like live like that. Becky Mollenkamp (02:54) Well, you can hire people to cuddle you now, so I'm sure you could hire someone to do anything, but Nicole Havelka (she/her) (02:59) You c if you're willing to pay enough, people will do a lot of things, right? Almost anything. Becky Mollenkamp (03:02) Really, I think almost anything. So the it's that but I think what many people have touched on with podcasting is the intimacy that it could create between you and that listener, Nicole Havelka (she/her) (03:11) Yeah, yeah. Becky Mollenkamp (03:12) and that that is something that you enjoy as the listener, and so you thought you'd like Nicole Havelka (she/her) (03:15) Yeah. Becky Mollenkamp (03:16) it as the speaker. You're now you've been you've done a full season of your show. Is it Nicole Havelka (she/her) (03:21) Mm-hmm. Becky Mollenkamp (03:21) what you thought it would be? Like what are how are you feeling about podcasting now that you've done it? Nicole Havelka (she/her) (03:26) Yes and no. So yes, in a way, it's is it's it's more than I expected. Like it's way more and better in a lot of ways. It it does help facilitate relationship and building relationship. That's still I mean, I'm still a baby podcast, so like I haven't gotten a lot of that feedback, but I have heard at least in one case, someone who I hadn't met who was referred to me as a co coaching client who said, yeah, I listen to the podcast and then I schedule a meeting with you. So I know that that power of that being relationship building is helping and that people can hear me talking with guests in the case of my podcast or occasionally I do solo episodes. People can get to know me in a different way and they hear a real voice, which I think is a piece of what you're saying, the intimacy of podcasting and the ability to build relationships. Because I know that there's podcasters I've listened to for years in some cases who feel like friends to me. Now they're totally not because I don't know them in real life in most cases. I mean, I know my friends in the feminist podcast collective. I know them outside of the podcast. But it still enhances our relationship because I listen to your podcast sometimes, Becky, and I come back to you or I post on socials or something like that and say, this part of the podcast really grabbed me or I did something differently because I got an idea from that podcast. and people do that with other things, other other media too, but I just think that there is something so powerful about human voices. And was this just in our newsletter that like the number of AI-generated podcasts is like obscene? Like a third of them or something now? And I'm like, my gosh. Well, I got ugh. Becky Mollenkamp (05:06) third of new podcasts that are being created right now are in entirely AI, not just like edited by AI. That's a different story, but AI Nicole Havelka (she/her) (05:13) River right, right. Becky Mollenkamp (05:14) voices in the whole thing, yeah. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (05:15) Which is I can't even like I'm not even gonna go there. Becky Mollenkamp (05:17) I know, I know. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (05:19) Cause there's and there's things I full disclosure, there are things like transcription and things like that that I use AI for with the podcast, but these are real live humans, myself included, who are on the podcast. And I think in a world where we're really Skeptic, you know, like because we're not sure are people real or we don't have that kind level of contact, like voices, connecting via our voices is really important. Becky Mollenkamp (05:43) Yeah, yeah. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (05:44) and I've also done recent this year. This is something I've also done this year, is kind of done a deeper dive into my own human design. And apparently I'm designed for podcasting. It's totally not for everybody, right? Becky Mollenkamp (05:54) Yeah. And it's not for everyone, obviously, either as the person it's not for everyone as a listener or the way we receive information or the way we give information, but it's great when you have a feeling that's I think if you enjoy listening to podcasts, you're probably gonna be more Nicole Havelka (she/her) (06:07) Yeah. Becky Mollenkamp (06:08) likely to enjoy creating and delivering a podcast. One would assume, right? It's still not for everybody, but it's a great thing to explore and can be Nicole Havelka (she/her) (06:11) Totally. Right. Yeah. Becky Mollenkamp (06:16) one really great part of our marketing. Ecosystem, or for some people, maybe the entirety, Nicole Havelka (she/her) (06:20) Totally. Becky Mollenkamp (06:21) but I think for most people it's just a part of an ecosystem. Okay. So yeah. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (06:22) Yeah. Yeah. I mean and I well and I'll d can I just add something? I'm and I'm thinking about the relationship building on two levels. One is with my guests, and one Becky Mollenkamp (06:31) Mm-hmm. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (06:32) of the things I plan to do, you know, since there's probably other podcasters listening. And I got this idea from from a guest on FPC is to have a gathering maybe quarterly of all my guests. First of all, because they're really awesome and they should know each other if they don't already. But like and creating networking opportunities for them. And then that's good for me too in the long run. But it's a long term relationship strategy, not you know, not a it's not that quick a quick funnel to a product. That's not what it's doing. Becky Mollenkamp (07:02) Right. Yeah. And I think there may be some people for whom that is the thing, but I think for most people it's not. And shout out to Great Blosserman of RSS.com who had an amazing session for our members Nicole Havelka (she/her) (07:06) Sure. Yeah. Thank you. I couldn't remember who was. Yeah. Becky Mollenkamp (07:14) inside of the Feminist Podcast Collective. And it I I go back to those ideas frequently. His whole thing was about how do we Nicole Havelka (she/her) (07:19) Totally. Becky Mollenkamp (07:20) maximize those relationships that we're building with guests, because too often we sort of see them as just these people who come in and out of our ecosystem briefly to be on our show. But really it A podcast can be a really relationship driven tool and deepening tool, not just Nicole Havelka (she/her) (07:34) Mm-hmm. Becky Mollenkamp (07:35) with your listeners, as you said, but with your guests as well. So it's great that you took that from that. And yeah. Yeah, it's wonderful. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (07:38) Yeah. And I've been holding that idea since before I launched the podcast. Yeah. Becky Mollenkamp (07:43) okay, well, let's talk about the launch because that's where I really want to spend the bulk of our time. Because I think Nicole Havelka (she/her) (07:48) Okay. Becky Mollenkamp (07:49) I've talked to, you know, quite a few members at this point for the series. I think you're the ninth or tenth of them, which is amazing. And the thing that I think you did differently than pretty much everyone else I've talked to. Is that you chose the path of ground of crowdfunding your show to get it off the ground? Because podcasting can be virtually free, not free. You have to pay somewhere to host it at minimum. You're gonna have to have a computer and a way of editing or at least a way of recording. you could theoretically do all of those pieces on your desktop with the tools that come with most laptops, but the hosting you'd have to pay. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (08:27) Right. Becky Mollenkamp (08:27) So, a minimum Nicole Havelka (she/her) (08:28) Right. Becky Mollenkamp (08:28) you gotta pay hosting. But you could theoretically Nicole Havelka (she/her) (08:30) Yeah. Becky Mollenkamp (08:31) do a podcast virtually free or almost, right? However, most people don't want their show to be that show, right? They wanna have Nicole Havelka (she/her) (08:38) Right. Becky Mollenkamp (08:39) maybe a decent microphone, maybe a tool, a platform like a like I'm using Riverside or Transistor or whatever, but Nicole Havelka (she/her) (08:45) Yeah. Becky Mollenkamp (08:45) tools to help them in the process. And for many people, they recognize that quality editing, quality recording, quality, Quality, transcription, show notes, all of those things take time. It takes human time, even with the assistance of AI, to get Nicole Havelka (she/her) (08:59) Right. Becky Mollenkamp (09:00) all of that in a format creating graphics so that our users, our listeners, can have everything that they need presented to them in a way that they want. And that takes a lot of time and/or help, which then takes money, right? Nicole Havelka (she/her) (09:12) Yeah. Right. Becky Mollenkamp (09:14) So podcasting can run a big spectrum from almost nothing to thousands and thousands of dollars an episode, depending on where you're Nicole Havelka (she/her) (09:20) Correct. Becky Mollenkamp (09:21) at in that spectrum of do you use video and how many people are helping you with all of that. You were you knew about yourself that you wanted help in this process. That for Nicole Havelka (she/her) (09:29) Mm-hmm. Becky Mollenkamp (09:30) you to get it done, and I love because you are your work is around burnout. So you know Nicole Havelka (she/her) (09:34) Mm-hmm. Becky Mollenkamp (09:35) that you didn't want this to be a thing that leads you to burnout. And we see that so many people, so Nicole Havelka (she/her) (09:40) Right. Becky Mollenkamp (09:40) many times. People take on a podcast, don't recognize how much work it's gonna be to create the show that they really want to create, and then they burn out on it and they Don't even make it through a season. They don't do five episodes. That's why so many shows end after just a couple of episodes. And you didn't want that to happen. Wisely knew that that could be a thing. And so you knew there's a certain amount of money I want to spend. So before we go into how you raise the money, I want you to talk a little bit about what was it that you identified as the need to do crowdfunding for? What kind of expenses were you looking at? And what was it about paying for those things that you knew was important to you versus again, trying to just sort of bootstrap it yourself? Nicole Havelka (she/her) (10:14) Right. So the main thing that I cre really it ended up being the only thing I ended up raising the money for was a launch partner. So I raised the money to hire Alicia Galati of Galati Media, who's a member of the Feminist Podcasters Collective, who I met there and got to know. So I wanted to to work with her on my launch. I originally tried to raise $12,000, which would have covered the cost of Alicia launching, plus some like at least a few months of editing and being able to pay to buffer some of you know some of my costs, like you were mentioning for the technology and stuff, which I don't do a whole lot of, but there are three or four platforms I use that I have to pay monthly fees for. and so I originally tried to raise, I think it was twelve thousand for that. I did Hit it originally and I was on Kickstarter, which fun fact is an all-or-nothing platform. So if you don't hit your goal, you don't get any of it, which creates a lot of confusion for the people who gave you money. Because I did raise almost five thousand dollars that first time, which is a ch a big chunk of it. It wasn't like I raised four dollars. I raised like a lot almost half of what I needed. and most people are like, you just don't get that? I'm like, no, your card wasn't charged. So what I ended up doing, and I already knew this was my plan B, because I knew it was a risk doing that on Kickstarter, that then what I did is that I I did do my best to keep emails. And the other thing that's really tricky in Kickstarter, they don't give you the emails unless you finish. Fortunately, I knew most of the people, or at least if I didn't have an email, I knew how to contact them. So I went back to all of those people. I created my own link in Square, which is one of the processing systems I use. There's an easy way to do a donation link in Square. I made a simple donation link and said, Hey, I'm really sorry I'm coming back to you again. But can you give me your original donation? So in that was really it was bumpy and it was good because in some ways. So what happened is that some people who gave the first time didn't give. There weren't very many of those. But in some cases, some people, like I heard this maybe from one or two people, their financial situation changed, so they couldn't get it, give it again. For other people, or but but I picked up new people because I was still talking about it for longer than the month I originally gave it. So I was crowdfunding up until the minute I paid Alicia in December. So I started Becky Mollenkamp (12:37) Yeah. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (12:37) in August and I didn't finish really crowdfunding until December. That's both the good thing and the not good thing about having done the crowdfunding. It sucked a ton of time. Purely launching. That's all I wrote. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Becky Mollenkamp (12:44) Yeah. And the money you raised was for launching then. So what like what helping just get the thing out marketing mostly then, is that okay. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (12:55) Marketing well well what she does is actually produces the show Soup to Nuts for the first three episodes. So that's what Becky Mollenkamp (12:59) Okay. First three episodes. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (13:02) so it actually made the initial production of the podcast go hyper speed because and because I was crowdfunding, like I just mentioned for months, I didn't have any content in the can. Like I just between having like a business to run and trying to crowdfund, which is a high maintenance, high energy thing, like I just didn't get that hardly any content done. So I recorded the first three episodes within a week of each other in December. Becky Mollenkamp (13:30) Yeah. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (13:31) And then gave them to her, like because I but if I but I if I had done it, the so the main reason I crowdfunded not only to prevent burnout was because I knew if I bootstrapped it myself, it would take me a year to do all of that on my own. I mean, just because I'd have to do it piecemeal. Becky Mollenkamp (13:47) Yeah. And I want to talk a little bit about the taking over and all of that in a second, but first, Nicole Havelka (she/her) (13:51) Yeah. Becky Mollenkamp (13:51) how much did you end up crowdsourcing in that first Nicole Havelka (she/her) (13:54) about five thousand and that was what Becky Mollenkamp (13:55) So you were able to re Nicole Havelka (she/her) (13:57) covered basically covered that launch expense. Becky Mollenkamp (13:59) Got it. And you were able to recoup then all the stuff that you had lost through the Kickstarter, basically. Get right back to that. Okay. Yeah. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (14:04) Yeah, I did. Between like again I lost a few but gained a few, so it came up about a wash. Becky Mollenkamp (14:09) All right. So about five thousand dollars that covered the launch, got you those first three episodes out, kind of gave you that jump start at getting this epis Nicole Havelka (she/her) (14:13) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Becky Mollenkamp (14:15) the season going. The season was longer than three episodes. So you at some point had to kind of take over the reins and continue. How did that process go for you? And what did that show you about like the the demands on podcasters and Nicole Havelka (she/her) (14:26) Right. Right. Becky Mollenkamp (14:29) more ability? Nicole Havelka (she/her) (14:28) right away in December or right away in January after we 'cause we dropped them on January first. So literally on the first of January on which went really well. The I took over after that. I know Becky knows, but people listening may not know that like my computer died in January. Later on January third, the computer I was using, I then got delayed by like a month. So I actually didn't release I had one scheduled and was able to record an app like a a Recording for the fourth episode. but I couldn't, I was using like a another person's computer and going to the library and all kinds of crazy stuff for a few weeks. So I couldn't do the editing and work that I wanted to do because of all of that. So that was another big wrinkle that had nothing to do with the crowdfunding, it was just life lifing. I got a new computer by the end of January-ish, and then that's probably when I really started in earnest, and it was so I had a real leg up because. one of the things that Alicia gives you are like tons of templates. So well she had made all the graphic templates, like that was all done, which made things like on the graphic side easy. Like I had all these templates of emails to send guests and you know not necessarily an onboarding process. I eventually built that myself but like But at least here's here are the templates of what you would write people and something to start from, which again is so good to have that in front of you. but it doesn't change the fact that, like in the beginning, you're like, I I mean, I was so overwhelmed by just onboarding guests for a while because I didn't have an aut I hadn't automated all of that. And how do I do that with an online scheduler and things like that? Which now is pretty well set, but that was another couple of months at least of just rewriting templates. It's figuring out that system, onboarding guests, and then figuring out the I had to start editing myself. and doing like, and she did all the content too. So, like the blog version of the blog, the version of the Substack. I had to edit all of that with her, but I didn't like write anything. Like it was I Becky Mollenkamp (16:30) Yeah. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (16:31) I had vr I had drafts of everything to work from, where now I I do use AI to help me draft what from a transcript. but then I rewrite everything. It's fun. far more time, like I'm sure most other guests have may if they talk about the technicality of podcasting, I spend far more time on the other content than I do on the podcast itself. Becky Mollenkamp (16:51) Yeah, I mean it's a lot. It it's not no work, right? Even when you get your systems in place. Yeah. I mean Nicole Havelka (she/her) (16:54) It's not no work, it is a lot of work. And I would say in the beginning I bet I spend at least eight to ten hours per episode. Becky Mollenkamp (17:01) Yeah. And I hear that from people. I mean, I've been doing this now for about a decade almost, and I'm down to Nicole Havelka (she/her) (17:06) Yeah. Becky Mollenkamp (17:07) generally around two hours an episode or Nicole Havelka (she/her) (17:10) Hmm. Becky Mollenkamp (17:10) an hour after recording. So usually about an hour for the recording and then another hour of Nicole Havelka (she/her) (17:14) Sure. Becky Mollenkamp (17:15) work. But that's after so much time and also a real commitment to good enough, which took a long time. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (17:20) Sure. Becky Mollenkamp (17:21) When I was not as committed to good enough, I spent a lot more time. So I think that's normal. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (17:24) Right. Well, I've learned a little bit more commitment to good enough and just not doing all of the I've had to cut some of the the content loose. Like I just couldn't keep it all up. Becky Mollenkamp (17:34) Yeah. Your mic just you got a little quiet just so you know now. No, it's okay. I think something Nicole Havelka (she/her) (17:36) Ooh, sorry. Okay. Becky Mollenkamp (17:38) must move. so you also decided to have seasons and have them be a smaller sort of number of episodes, which I'm guessing is also part of that, like, let me approach this in a way that I know I can sustain. What what does that look like? Like, what do you expect your cadence to be? And is any of that shifting now that you've done one season? Nicole Havelka (she/her) (17:54) I don't think the cadence is gonna change. I mean, one of the big good enough learnings, and this had to happen this happened right away because because of the computer snafu in the beginning, like I I had to give I my plan was to do every other week as my cadence. I had to I had to give that up at times during the first season. And quite frankly, I don't know that it mattered. I know people say you have to be super consistent and have it all together. Like, and they were like, if I had to do over again, I would have 10 episodes in the can before I started if I could. You know, like it's not like I didn't know that. It just wasn't possible to do, right? Like, it wasn't an education issue. I'd spend a year with all of you. Like, I knew how to do that. And I've organized some things before. I knew that it wasn't a good idea to to do your first season that way. But and then I just had to give up. There were some some seasons of busy where I'm like, well, it's three weeks between an episode. Rather than two. I did that sometimes and that's what ended up happening. Now I'm on a pretty routine every other every other Wednesday I'm dropping an episode. And this season, yeah. Yeah. Right. Becky Mollenkamp (18:55) Well, right now you're dropping some summer like hold like your appearances on other podcasts. When is your what is the next season look like? Are you thinking it'll be similar to the first then? Are you thinking about two seasons a year? One Nicole Havelka (she/her) (19:06) Yeah, I think I'm probably thinking about two seasons a year with a break of I mean it'll probably end up being sort of fall and then fall and spring-ish, you know, kind of thing. I also might go to like one I'll see how it goes, but I might go to like one season. Honestly, kind of during what would be the normal school year, maybe with a few breaks at the holidays. And then either what I'm so something like what I'm doing in the summer, like dropping encore episodes of one thing or another, here and there. the only thing that might speed up a little bit Is that I might add some solo episodes that are sh like solo episodes are much easier and quicker to do. Like you can definitely pound one of those out in an hour. Like that's not a hard thing, you know, hour or two and you're done. so now what I think I I do or what I'm so I might do that, especially we don't have to go a lot into this, but I'm starting like literally in two weeks. I'm starting to live nomadically starting September 1st. So I'm planning on sharing that with my audience, so I probably will drop a few solos in there as well. Becky Mollenkamp (20:13) Yeah. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (20:14) And those might come in between the longer episodes. Becky Mollenkamp (20:17) And that will also probably reinforce the good enough approach, I have a feeling. Cause when you're nomadic it's exactly. That's all right. Well, let's okay, going Nicole Havelka (she/her) (20:21) totally will reinforce the good enough 'cause it's like, well, that's all it's gonna happen with that. Right. Becky Mollenkamp (20:27) back to crowdfunding then I just wanted to get a feel for what kind of you've learned through that first process. You're not crowdfunding, Nicole Havelka (she/her) (20:31) Yeah. Becky Mollenkamp (20:33) I don't think, another season, right? Okay. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (20:35) No, I don't have the energy for that. Give like Becky Mollenkamp (20:39) Yeah. So well which is perfect because I want to talk a little bit about the pros and cons of what that experience was like for you. So Nicole Havelka (she/her) (20:44) Yeah. Becky Mollenkamp (20:44) let's start on the pros. The cons is obviously gonna be some of s that stuff around energy drain and all of that. But like what are the pros? Nicole Havelka (she/her) (20:48) Yeah, right. Becky Mollenkamp (20:50) What what are you what was that what did that experience give you that you are like, yeah, that was I'm glad I did it for that reason. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (20:57) a couple of things. Well, one was a purely personal development thing. I had to get okay with asking for money. Becky Mollenkamp (21:03) Which is huge. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (21:04) Which is huge. And I don't am I good? Am I good at asking for money still. I'm still uncomfortable with it, but I'm far closer to being neutral at least about asking for money for something I want to do. I would say that was like a huge personal growth moment. And what I realized from that, like related to that, is that asking for the money was relationship building. That is really counterintuitive. But I had so many phone calls and Zoom calls with friends and colleagues of people I know from like I've had a lot of different kinds of jobs. So from people I've known my whole adult life, or even longer in some cases, about like just to get to know and you know, honestly, those conversations were 90% not about the podcast. They were just catching up with people you love, and that was all it was. And and since Then like there's one example I use a lot is that one of a colleague of mine who I adore, who I worked with, when I was in Iowa, actually, Becky, we share that as a place we both lived. one of my friends and colleagues from there, we now zoom once a month. And it came out of that conversation. Like I originally up, you know, like we chatted or exchanged texts every once in a while, but like we didn't do that. And now it's just a standing thing on our calendars. Like we do a phone conversation like once, once a month-ish. and then I've been in more regular touch with even some of the other people who gave and it was such a beautiful experience and it didn't it was not all those, you know, you get all that bunchy feeling, or at least me, you get that gross bunchy feeling inside, like, asking for money is like the worst thing. And it's like, it really isn't, and it actually just enhanced my relationships with people. It was actually really great. so Becky Mollenkamp (22:42) It's awesome. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (22:43) I that was really great. Personal development. The other thing for the podcast, I would say, is is that people knew I was doing a podcast. Becky Mollenkamp (22:49) Mm-hmm. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (22:50) And I think it's hard to prove this because I don't have a you know, I don't have a a t another case that I can compare it to personally. But like, I mean I I think I had higher numbers because of that. Like, so even if people didn't give to the crowdfunding, I had literally been talking about launching a podcast from like July until I launched in January. Becky Mollenkamp (23:11) And friend, let's be honest. Even earlier than that, because you were in the podcast collector for a year, so you had people there that had known for yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (23:15) Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. People in the podcast collective knew it way before that. So like I had been talking about this podcast for at least a year and then publicly for like, you know, seven months. So once it hit in January, people knew I was doing it. And, you know, I did have really good help, you know, when I launched. to really have it blast out and be in places. So I think that how I mean again, I don't have a test case for saying how the numbers are better, Becky Mollenkamp (23:40) Well, there's no way it hurt. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (23:41) but I'm I'm almost up to tot I have 17 episodes now with the summer ones. And I'm I'm at almost 900 downloads total, which for a baby podcast is is quite a bit. Yeah. Becky Mollenkamp (23:53) That's great. Yeah, so the money, obviously, getting some getting five thousand dollars of much needed money to help get the thing off the ground. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (23:56) Right. right. I would not have been able to hire someone without that. Period. Becky Mollenkamp (24:01) Absolutely. So and the help. The the flexing the asking muscle, which we all, especially those Nicole Havelka (she/her) (24:06) Right Becky Mollenkamp (24:07) of us conditioned as women, probably need to do learn to do more of. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (24:09) Correct. Becky Mollenkamp (24:10) The deepening of those relationships that you had. And then the the awareness around the show. Those are all really great pluses. So beautiful. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (24:13) Yeah. Right. Right. Becky Mollenkamp (24:18) Now let's talk about the other thing because I think a lot of people think, I'll just I'll just crowdsource something. I'll just crowdfund Nicole Havelka (she/her) (24:23) Right. Becky Mollenkamp (24:23) it. That sounds fun. That sounds easy. It sounds like free money, that kind of a thing, right? It's not easy and it was a lot of efforting. So talk to me about the. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (24:26) Right. No. Ton of effort. Becky Mollenkamp (24:30) Yeah, what are the words of caution for people who might think, Ooh, I should just I'll just crowdfund my next podcast season or the getting a new show off the ground? Nicole Havelka (she/her) (24:38) prepare, prepare, prepare. Don't just slap it up on Kickstarter or make a link in Square or wherever. You have to really like before you ever Maybe not before you announce, but you know, before like you do the thing, you have to do a lot of like in fundraising they call it the quiet phase, like if you're doing a big fundraiser. So one of the things I did that was both scary and worked really well was that I thought about people on my in my sphere, you know, in my life, who I thought both would who who are people who cheer me on, who are supporters, and who I thought might have a little you might have a little bigger amounts to give. I sent an email, I don't know, it was at least two or three weeks before the launch of the crowdfunding, and with a good long email that you actually read for me, Becky, could to give me some like feedback on and said, hey, this is what I'm doing. Would you consider giving right away or on the day of the you know, the first day of the the crowdfunding, which worked really well. Now, did all those people give right away? No, but they all did give. Like, or everybody who said they would. There were a couple who didn't who who had to decline for various reasons. But like, and here's the other thing, those people did not ghost me. They actually responded. So that's a another thing. like you get ghosted a lot in the business, you know, in your lives in business. That did not happen with them. And so that was probably one of the that again was a really good thing that I did. I had to get over that, but prepare. That's but that's not something you like, you're not doing it willy-nilly. The other thing that you really have to prepare is that you have to get like laser focused, really, really, really clear on what the you have to know your name, you need to know the purpose of your podcast. you have to be able to say that quickly and succinctly and over and be ready to do it 8,000 times because Somebody's just hearing about it for the first time, even if you've already said it a thousand times, right? Like somebody else is hearing it again. And you have to just be in people's faces for a month. And and when the initial month is going on, you do get a big response in the beginning. Everybody tells you this. I actually talked to people who had done a lot of crowdfunding. So like I knew what to expect. There's a dip in the middle, but most of it is the messy middle where you're getting almost no money. And then you get a push at the end. And so you have to keep your energy going and celebrate even the twenty dollars you got that week on, you know what I mean? On so I was doing thing and I haven't done this kind of stuff in years. Like I was making reels, like it I don't know that those were worth it, but you know, I was making videos every week. I was sending an email with an update every week. I was sending that to to people who might give to me. And that is a boatload of work. By the way, for me, and Becky Mollenkamp (27:30) Yeah. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (27:30) I do have some, like I have some very, very limited hours, but I have some just in general, I have some people who do some assisting of me making graphics and some other stuff for social media and whatnot. But yeah. Was just me and my team, which is tiny, but a team that was doing all of that for a month. That's pretty much all I did for a month. Becky Mollenkamp (27:42) Well, be prepared to talk about it and then Right. Yeah. Well, it's that being starting early, being prepared to talk about it and then talking about it more and then talking about it more and then talking about more. Talking about the flight Mm-hmm. And so I think Nicole Havelka (she/her) (27:55) Right. And talking about it more and talking about it more and talking about it more. Don't stop talking about it. Becky Mollenkamp (28:01) Right, because I think there is like some misconception that, you know, you put out a crowdfunding thing and it's just gonna seed itself Nicole Havelka (she/her) (28:07) Yeah. Becky Mollenkamp (28:08) and it's almost like sitting back and doing nothing work, which we know is true of almost nothing in this world, including that. Right. It's work, it's it's constant Nicole Havelka (she/her) (28:11) No. That is true of nothing. Like, right? Becky Mollenkamp (28:16) efforting, it's talking about it, things that can make people very uncomfortable if you're not used to that. Like you said, having to Nicole Havelka (she/her) (28:20) Yeah. Becky Mollenkamp (28:20) learn to flex that. That asking muscle, the flexing, the talking about yourself muscle. And so knowing Nicole Havelka (she/her) (28:23) Right. Right. Becky Mollenkamp (28:26) that before you go in, that you're going to be challenged in that way. And if that's not something you're ready for, then crowdfunding may not be the thing for you. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (28:31) Right. Yeah. Becky Mollenkamp (28:33) and just that it's it's all like it's a long haul too. So it can get draining. So you got to be prepared for that. And also the Nicole Havelka (she/her) (28:39) So draining. Yeah. Becky Mollenkamp (28:41) piece of you may not reach your goal. And so, because that happened Nicole Havelka (she/her) (28:44) Right. Becky Mollenkamp (28:44) with your initial goal wasn't where you got to. How did you deal with? Nicole Havelka (she/her) (28:47) Yeah. You know, I I think I dealt with that pretty well only because I knew that was a possibility from the beginning. Like, Becky Mollenkamp (28:53) Yeah. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (28:53) I'm kind of an experimenter by nature, so that part wasn't too hard. But if you're someone who really needs to concretely map it out, like I had it sort of in my head. Like I didn't have like anything written, but I had look I had at least looked within my Square system to know, okay, I can make a quick donation link if I want to pivot. You know, I knew that I could do those things and do it pretty quickly. Like those were the pivot was simple. The building of the original pitch was much harder. And what I'll say is that here's here's my little like sneaky advice. Go to Kickstarter and maybe even sign up for an account there so that you get their their preparation materials because they are top notch. Like I watched most of their prep videos and like explaining how to make a good pitch, how to write it, how to how to do videos, like things like that in Kickstarter. And but you don't have to use Kickstarter if you don't want to. Now you can. I think there's advantages using their platform. Right? They take a cut too. That's the other thing. yeah. Becky Mollenkamp (29:45) Of course not. Yeah. But especially if you're not gonna reach if if there's a chance you don't reach your goal. I think some of that is to ensure that Yeah. And I mean I I understand their model because it's like we don't want you to raise money and then not make not be able to deliver on something and leave people hanging. So I get why. But yeah. Yeah. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (30:02) Totally. I totally get why they do it and and it makes it really hard for things like a podcast that can get by with less money. Honestly, you know? Becky Mollenkamp (30:10) Yeah, right. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (30:11) Like, but they a lot of people make products on there. If they only got a third of their money, they're not gonna be able to make the product they're promising people. Like that wouldn't work. So I get it. Becky Mollenkamp (30:17) Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I think one other thing is just that piece that you mentioned about tapping into other people's audiences, not just people with bigger Nicole Havelka (she/her) (30:25) Hmm. Becky Mollenkamp (30:26) money to give, but also people have bigger audiences than yours that you're able to that you Nicole Havelka (she/her) (30:28) Right. Right. Becky Mollenkamp (30:30) can kind of tap into through them. Because if you have fifty people on your email list, it's not to say that you can't raise five thousand dollars, but it's gonna be a bigger uphill battle than if you're walking into a Kickstarter or a gun you know, crowdsourcing or crowdfunding kind of campaign with a giant social media following, a giant email list, Nicole Havelka (she/her) (30:47) Right. Becky Mollenkamp (30:47) whatever. So just know that it's important, I think, also to right size your expectations to your existing in sphere of influence. And then also think how can I tap into other people's sphere of influence to widen mine if I don't have a large one. So yeah. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (31:00) For sure. Yeah. And that's where like the the podcast like FPC came in really handy because a number of people had me do like Substack Lives or other kinds of live conversations about the crowdfunding with them. a lot of people And then even with those some of those people who with at least one that I can think of, someone who said, No, I'm not gonna be able to give right now. I said, Well, you have a network, like would you share it in your net like these are other and I was constantly giving people options of what they could do to share. And people Becky Mollenkamp (31:30) Yeah. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (31:31) did that a lot for me. I I don't know at the end of the day that very many people gave because of that though that was really interesting like unless they were mutual connections you know what I mean they had to be mutual connections to me but it still helped totally right Becky Mollenkamp (31:39) But it is interesting to True, true. But going back to the when your show when your show launches, the awareness is out there. So that may not be the goal of the crowdfunding effort, but it can be one of those byproducts of it too, is that increased visibility. So that's all. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (31:56) Yeah. I mean I might make it a primary goal if I were to crowdfund again. Because Becky Mollenkamp (32:01) Yeah. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (32:01) I mean the money the money would be number two as the goal almost. Becky Mollenkamp (32:04) That can be really interesting though, Nicole, is to instead of the crowdfunding effort being people raising money that they commit to a certain number sharing the podcast a certain number of times or something and then seeing does that right Nicole Havelka (she/her) (32:12) Hmm that's an interesting idea, yeah. Becky Mollenkamp (32:16) and then does that effort relate to a spike in downloads or whatever? Nicole Havelka (she/her) (32:18) Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Becky Mollenkamp (32:21) We're just brainstorming here. Somebody try it and tell us. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (32:23) I Becky Mollenkamp (32:23) thank you for doing this, Nicole. Your podcast Nicole Havelka (she/her) (32:24) Sure. Becky Mollenkamp (32:25) is just rest. The first season's out. Right now you're on like Nicole Havelka (she/her) (32:27) It is. Becky Mollenkamp (32:28) a hiatus but still content being shared because you're repurposing, which is a great example Nicole Havelka (she/her) (32:31) Yeah, for sure. Becky Mollenkamp (32:32) for people to see how that can look, To do that while you're still giving yourself some increased downtime. Yeah. Yeah. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (32:34) Yeah. It's been a blast to share those actually. And I'm listening to episode I just I just dropped one today, as a matter of fact, that was recorded over a year ago, and I was like, I would answer that question really differently now. Becky Mollenkamp (32:50) I'll link to it and I'll link to your website as well if you're interested in more about Nicole and your work, coaching work around burnout. So thank you so much for doing this. Thanks for being a member of FC and I really appreciate you. Nicole Havelka (she/her) (32:54) Yeah. Right. Right. I of course. No, thank you. I appreciate it, Becky.