Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / 8 Promotions in 7 years at Foster Denovo, a Financial planning career development deep dive with Josie Freeman

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8 Promotions in 7 years at Foster Denovo, a Financial planning career development deep dive with Josie Freeman · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: And today's guest on the Financial Planner Live podcast is Josie Freeman from Foster De Novo.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: This is a fantastic episode and I'll tell you why because Josie's had seven promotions in eight years at Foster De Novo and she breaks down her career journey for you today to fully understand what she did in each and every role.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: We talk about the power of mentorship, why that was so important in her career, the training, the development that she has received and the ability to progress her career through a clear career development framework and why that is super important.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: You are going to love this episode if you're an entry-level person in financial planning.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Josie, thank you so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Live podcast on this Foster De Novo special how are you?
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: I'm good, thank you.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: How are you?
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: I'm very good, you're very pregnant.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: I am yes.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they've snuck this in just before my mat leave was due to start.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: I was good of them to do that.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: Very good, very good, well, fantastic, well, I'm really pleased you're here today no-transcript during uni and sort of just finished and didn't know what I wanted to do, so I just sort of stayed there and ended up going full-time.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: Um, and then actually I got into it by a complete fluke.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: It was actually such a strange circumstance.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: Someone hid my car and I was in this e-jag thing.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: It was massive, it was brand new and I was 21 driving this jag and my friend was like, oh, my mum's got this job, why don't you go and talk to her?
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: So I pull up outside her house in this jag and I'm like this is just the most bizarre thing that's ever happened.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: And she starts talking to me about this job that she's got, that's in pensions, and I'm like I don't know what that is.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: She starts talking to me about letters of authority, all that sort of side, and I was like, okay, sounds good.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's probably better than what I'm doing now.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: So I sort of just went for it and ended up going in an entry level administrator role with no previous experience.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: Oh so fantastic.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: Administrator role, um with no previous experience, oh so fantastic.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: So your first yeah from waitrose into foster day novo.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, my degree is in history as well, so it's completely not related.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: I had no idea what I wanted to do.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: I just enjoyed history, thought it's quite.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: You know, you can apply it across a lot of subjects and it's quite detailed case study oriented.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: So that's why I picked that.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: But isn't it funny?
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: We often fall into companies, we fall into jobs, and you go to university with probably all the best intentions of doing a degree that you think is then going to lead you into the job that you're meant to have, and the degree is part of it, but actually it's a chance encounter.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: You know, it's a, it's a some, it's a, it's somebody, offering you an interview that you've never heard of massive, yes, that sliding doors moment, isn it?
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: I did actually have a place to do my GED and go into law and go that side and I was sort of looking to that, thinking well, where do I go, and sort of ended up here.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Never heard of financial services.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: You know, financial planning is not something that we should talk about, is it?
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: No, not at all.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: I don't remember anything about it, and that was the first time I'd heard.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: Like many of us, conversations about money do do make us feel uncomfortable, and that's such a huge subject that financial education.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: I'm loving all the financial coaches you're seeing on instagram and tiktok now, because they are really targeting those types of money beliefs, aren't they?
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: yeah, it's massive because it just doesn't exist in schools.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: You know, you come out of school, you, you do, your a levels.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: You're 18, you can get a credit card.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: What's an apr?
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: No one knows.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: But now tiktok instagram's really changing that.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: I think it's so important to highlight that they can do that are you seeing it a lot when you go online.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I am an avid tiktok user.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: Um, I think it's so useful, but my, but my TikTok looks very different from a 12 year old's TikTok.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: Mine's like really boring, you know cooking, all that sort of side, but yeah it is.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of mortgage rates, things like that, that you can learn snippets and videos.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: It's so useful.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, fantastic.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: So just tell us a little bit about that entry level point then.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: So you've come in no experience.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: You've joined Foster De Novo, you've moved into administration.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: Just tell us about that first year then, because you're talking about eight promotions here in seven years.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: Let's take the listeners on a journey and what it's been like to progress through the company, because those listening are probably craving a company where they can push forward with their career.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: It sounds like this is a great place to do it.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: So you started off administration.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: Tell us about what you're doing yeah, so I started off as our entry level, which is called a client experience administrator, sorry, and that's our entry level.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: So it's sort of doing what we call the front end of the business, gathering the information for clients, you know, onboarding them into our systems, that sort of back office role, liaising with providers, that sort of side.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: I ended up doing that, I think, for six months before I was promoted into our client experience executive, which is a lot more client facing, a lot more application sides, a bit more technical knowledge.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: So as you sort of go through, you build up your technical knowledge as you go, which when I arrived I didn't have at all.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: Let me stop you there then.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: So, going from that entry-level administrative position, did you feel, based on your level of skills, experience, knowledge, did you think it was a great grounding for you?
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: It gave me all the basics, so that really helped to sort of get me in my set.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: I took the time to learn.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: You know there was people around me that I could look at and take that sort of level of experience from, so that was really invaluable.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: And then you moved on up into the what was the next role?
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: it's client experience executive, so it's sort of the one up for that.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: So we have sort of like a clear track to run on in terms of our promotion and where that goes okay, cool.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: So just tell us a little bit about that position.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: Then.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: What's, what's the difference then?
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Why was that almost?
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: Why was that a promotion or a natural?
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: so you have a lot more client contact, which obviously when you're new into the business it's quite intimidating, especially as a millennial who doesn't answer the phone.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: Um, so that was a learning curve.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: So you know, getting to talk to clients and doing that side of it, you have a bit more technical knowledge, you're expected to know a bit more, challenge the providers a bit more push through and things like that.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: So it's sort of that next level on so that administrative role that you looked at for you pretty much looking at the documents going through it, yeah, processing really you know, processing it.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: Now it's like a depth of knowledge that you're understanding and then doing something with it.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: You're applying, applying it.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: Talk to me about those challenges in that next role.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: Then the experience type position.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: What was the challenges you came up against?
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: You mentioned you millennial don't like picking up the phone yeah, not my favorite.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: Um.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: So yeah, talking to clients, but actually it was really lovely.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: Like you sort of think, oh my God, these people are paying for a service and there's an expectation there to deliver.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: But actually, you know, you form relationships with them and I had people come to me, you know, the next year ago.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: I spoke to that bloke last year.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: Can you get me back in touch?
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: I want to do this, this, this.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: It's like that bloke you met three times.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: You actually only spoke to me on the phone, okay, for six months, sort of once a week, but you still build that relationship with the client, so it allows you to do that, which is actually really nice yeah, it's a nice grounding, isn't it?
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: it kind of makes the role more real and the job that you're doing, instead of it just being processing documents over and over again which, come on, it can be quite boring, right yeah it gives you that ability, then, to put a name, a face to a document yeah, or to a life.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: You know the pension transfer form that you might be processing is actually impacting somebody's life, so it kind of brings it to life then, doesn't it?
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: What about the product providers?
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: Was that a difficult transition?
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: Did you put those types of people up on the pedestal?
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: Do you a bit sort of anxious about dealing with them?
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: yeah, definitely.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: I think when you come in and you don't have the knowledge, you know I was using words that I didn't really know.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: They're on top of the piece of paper that was given in front of me you know, if they I asked them a question they push back.
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: I was like, do I know how to answer that?
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: But you, you start to really learn that they're almost the same as you you know, that it's sort of an entry-level position a lot of the time their side and you know you can actually learn from each other at the same time.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: When I worked for Aviva I can't remember how old I was, now my 20s, so I was on the customer service side but we used to have financial advisors call us up and I used to find them really intimidating because they were like where's my letter of authorities and everything.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: They just wanted information, information.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: Oh my God, I used to be.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: Where's my you know letter of authorities and everything.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: They just want information, information.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, I be freaked out by, by, by the financial advisors.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: You kind of put them on a pedestal, don't you?
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you do, you do and I move.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: I moved them in when I moved then into recruitment and I started off doing like um customer advisors in banks or administrators and things like that.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: I would never too, I didn't want to deal with a financial advisor because I always felt that they you know again were on a bit of a pedestal.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: It's quite interesting though, isn't it?
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: And obviously now you work in an environment where you're surrounded by financial planners.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: They're not what you think, right.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: No, no, they're definitely not, but we never really had that because our financial advisors are so willing to give you their time and share their experience.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: You know, at the end of the day day we're all putting the client at the heart of what we do, so we're all trying to get to the same result.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: So if you're better equipped to deal with that, then it's going to help them and their client at the end of the day that transition, then, from an admin then to the experience role.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: What do you think is essential to make sure you do make that transition?
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: If someone's sat in an admin role right now and they're wanting to kind of make sure that they're, you know, progressing their career.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: What's the what's?
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: the most important thing that they look at in respect to their own skill set to start making that move along into the next role it's definitely you know a range of them time management's massive one, you know everywhere you go but it's taking the opportunity to learn what's going on around you, observing which, post-covid, can be quite difficult if you've got a hybrid model or something like that, but it really is learning from those around you.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: Hearing those conversations, those difficult conversations, that you think, well, would I be able to deal with that, how would I have dealt with that?
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: and just sort of using that to better develop yourself did you find that you were exposed to learning and development very quickly?
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: yeah, I think so.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: Um, I'm quite an ambitious person anyway.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: Um, like I said, when I was at Waitrose, I actually got offered if I wanted to do the management course there, because I love to learn, I think one of the things I, when I left uni, I thought, oh my God, I'm not going to learn anything anymore, and that frightened the hell out of me.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: I didn't realise there is so much more that you can get from the industry that you're in.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: When did you start thinking about qualifications within financial planning?
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: So when I went down the power planning route was more when I moved towards those.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: So I had no idea what a power planner was.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think that's one of the titles that you're like.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: What's that?
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: I mean you can't even select it.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: If you've taken out car insurance, it's not available half the time.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: I remember watching a video and someone went out with I think it was an Australian video, and someone went out and said I should do it in the UK, asking people what they thought a power planner was, and some of the responses are so funny.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: No one had a clue what a power planner was no one does.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: So let's just take the listeners on a bit of a journey, because that client experience role we started dealing with product providers started to the clients.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: What was next after that role?
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: So that was where I went down the power planning route, and that's the thing is that there was more I could have done in admin.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: You know we have more roles that we go, we go seniors, we go to client relationship managers and it develops on further there.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: But at that point I decided that I was going to look down the power planning route.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: That's really what I was interested in my next step to be, because I enjoyed the technical knowledge side, but also the client side, because I think that's a lot about para planners is that everyone thinks it's just research and report writing, when actually there is still a client there and you know you're understanding their situations and doing what's right for them.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: So I found that really interesting.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: I do like the fact that there's a vertical there for administration.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: So if it's an area that you really enjoy, there are still progressive steps that you can move on up into.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah definitely.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: We have people that just want to do admin.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: You know, that is what they want to do.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: But there is so many levels to go there and other ways you can go and we have a lot of you know you can go into other departments.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be you know one track into other departments.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be you know, one track.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: You go here, you do this.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: That's not how we work.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: You know we have people that go across and do a side step and they go compliance or they go to marketing or you know.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: So there's a lot of opportunity to move across the business and cross train okay, so that client experience.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: Then you then saw power planning as the option.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: So the company supported you in your move then to move into power planning Now from the outside looking into power planning?
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: How did you understand what the role was before you made that move and made sure it was the right move for you?
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: So in my administration role in the client experience executive, we were quite involved with the power planners.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: We'd gather the information for them to be able to write the report.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: So we have quite close connection with them because they are in-house.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: So you'd be dealing with them, you know, on a daily basis, really discussing cases, making sure you've got the right information for them.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: And that's when I sort of sparked and was like oh, how do you know?
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: How do you know you need this information, because I don't know that yet, and sort of took it from there.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, we had a team of power planners up in London.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: I thought it looks quite good, I'll give that a go.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Were you invited over into the power planning team to sort of observe it and get stuck in and understand different things of what they're doing yeah, it's definitely not separate.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: It's obviously a separate team, but we would come together quite a lot because it helps, it moves the cases on a lot quicker when you have those open conversations, not just a you know an email flying around and things like you know, we would go there and we would sit with them.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: I've got this case.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: You know this client, what do you need, what can I do, how can I help you?
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: And that was sort of how we went from there.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: Do you think you could have started the qualification so?
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: Is that the point where you started doing qualifications?
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: Yes, so I started qualifications going straight into the level four.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: But there is a level three which you can do.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: There's sort of lots of different routes, there's different bodies and things like that.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: So we looked at the cii.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: That's how I went across that.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: So we have people that actually do the level three first because it gives you more of a foundation level before you move on to the level four.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: But, um, I found that just with the knowledge I sort of gathered on the job that I was comfortable to go into the level four and knew I was ready to go there that's really interesting.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: So you know, like a qualification often doesn't teach us actually what the job does.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: I mean that what that massively happens in financial planning.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: You know like people become level four qualified.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: It doesn't teach you how to be a financial planner sitting in front of people having the skill set yeah, it definitely can feel like a bit of a box tick.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: I mean you know it's a multiple choice question not saying it's not hard because it is um, it definitely is um but it's multiple choice questions but it's the real world applications that you don't get from that and that's when we probably talk about a bit later.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: When I moved into management and I was hiring people, I was looking for people who had something about them, who had done the job for a while, had gone through the different roles and had that experience.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: I think that's really invaluable okay, let's go back to this power planner role then.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: So, because I'm the firm believer that we label power planning or power planners um chuck everybody under one name and that's it um?
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: Are there layers?
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: Are there levels?
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: we love a layer.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: We've got all the cake layers going on here.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: So our first layer, our entry level.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: There is a trainee parapanner, so that's someone who's probably just starting off on their exam journey, doesn't have any you know, starts to do a lot of the research side, maybe some basic reports, sort of bed and ices, that entry level sort of reporting so they learn that, and it's mainly assisting the other power planners in their research and that side and gaining experience there for those who don't know then at that level of trainee.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: So I love that you know you're getting involved in, like some of the isis, some of the work you're supporting the power planners, so they're kind of coaching you as you're doing some of those tasks that they aren't able to do or don't have perhaps the time to do.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: So they pass smaller tasks to you, more manageable tasks based on your level of experience, and kind of drip feed you stuff yeah, definitely, but also to to train you at the same time.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: It's like sometimes, if you know they were doing something on a case and they were like, actually you know this, this is great, come on, have a look at this, you know.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: And then suddenly you're taking over that section for everyone else because they've just taken the time to show you how to do it, and there's quite a lot of that happens each time you got the promotion, that's three right.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: Each time you got one, did you feel good?
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: yeah yeah, you felt like you were progressing yeah, I love a title change nothing better than when you come in and you change your signature and your job title and you get to change it.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: I love that there's an element of prestige there.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: Isn't there that humans look for you?
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: Know it's that maybe it is that feeling of like tribal where are we in the tribe and how are we seen by others?
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think a title can be very important to people and I think, again, bringing these different titles into career frameworks does motivate people that are driven by the element of prestige, the title, and I think it's nothing wrong with that.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: I think it's great because it also indicates and shows somebody.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: It's almost like a, a badge, isn't it?
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: it's like it's progression, isn't it?
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: It's progression.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: The great gatsby he always says I've got to go like this, I've got to keep going up yeah that's what it is.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: You know we have that.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: A lot of us have that drive.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: That means we want to go up yeah, it doesn't necessarily mean I want to be here tomorrow and earning 50 grand more.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: It's I've got to keep moving forward.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: It's a journey isn't it?
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: you know you've got to break that journey down into bite-sized, manageable chunks, and I think breaking down roles in a career framework is an important way of doing.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: That.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: Keeps you motivated.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: You get those rewards um your career framework.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: Then was it clearly defining competencies that you needed to hit things you needed to do to be able to evidence that you're ready for the next stage yeah.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: So we have what we call personal development plans, love a little acronym, so it's a pdp, um, and what you do is you have sort of set that out.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: So in three months time, where do I see myself in six months, in a year, in five years?
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: And you break it down and then you also look at the job description for the next role and go, okay, so what do I not have?
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: You know on our job descriptions, whether a essential side and a desired side, you know would be nice if you had these, you know, but the essential side.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: You're looking down and going, okay, where am I missing on the side?
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: Well, actually, I might, I might have that already, you know, and how can I get there?
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: so it is really a clear track to run on that you can pick those elements out did you ever feel like you were held back, or were you able to evidence those competencies, to be able to say look, I am achieving these things, I am hitting these things.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: Um, can I be considered for?
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: Um?
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: a promotion yeah, I never felt held back.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: I always felt like there was always someone there to fight my corner as well as I could.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: Um, but it's also about, you know, fighting your own corner.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: No one's going to back you more than you.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: So you know, I had a little folder for things.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: When someone sent me feedback boom, that's in there, I'll be using.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: So you know, I had a little folder for things when someone sent me feedback boom, it's in there, I'll be using that you know, and it's using all those things you know.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: I'd evidence it, I'd have a spreadsheet with things that I'd completed and checked off.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: So if you go in with the evidence, it can't be disputed did that motivate you as well?
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: Personally, yeah, definitely yeah definitely and again, it's part of that journey that's again compartmentalizing it.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: Seeing that next step, you know ticking something off.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: It's gone green on a spreadsheet.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: Satisfying might be the power planner in me, but no, I love it, it's great.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: So you started off in power plan trainee, power planner, and then you moved on into so a junior power planner is our next one up so that's when you've got a few more exams under your belt, you start writing a few more reports, start to move into the transfer, maybe sort of investment transfer rather than pension transfer.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: So it's just that another level of experience was there a longer gap between those two roles?
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: no, those ones are pretty quick.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty quick, was it?
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: because you've obviously got to achieve your qualifications.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: Did having to achieve qualifications a certain amount of how many qualifications did you have to achieve?
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: so it's six.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: Um, I managed to do three in six months, which was to get to the junior, which was um a lot, doing one every other month, um, but no, I was motivated to do it.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: I was also given the time to do it, you know to, to study.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: You know if, maybe, if there wasn't something in, I could take that time to study, if we just had a bit of a lull, or someone would go oh, go, sit with so-and-so, they've just had a look at you know, something they hear that could really help you and you can apply it to your exam.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: So that really helped, as well, you did three in six months, did you?
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, were they tough.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: They are tough, yeah, yeah, they are tough, and you do have to dedicate yourself to them.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: There's lots of resources, though.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: Just in terms of the governing bodies, they offer a lot of resources, but, yeah, it is tough, you do have to apply yourself to it, but I do think doing it on the job helps.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: I don't think I could have sat those as an administrator, because I just wouldn't have had that level of technical knowledge it's really interesting, isn't?
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: it's lots of people um look at the role of financial planner and put it on quite a pedestal and they work towards their level four qualifications, uh before even entering into the financial planning profession um I mean, you know, look at the end of the day their qualifications.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: Great to get them under your belt, be lovely to see them in more universities, for example yeah you know, or at least you know, more of the degree qualification towards their points when it comes to yeah level four qualified um, it's definitely worth getting them under your belt, because if your end goal is to be a financial planner or a power planner.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: It's good to get these qualifications, but in your experience, doing it on the job against the thought of doing it in your bedroom without any experience what what's your thoughts on that?
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: I think it's possible, I think it's harder.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: I definitely think that when you're doing it and seeing it, you know you're putting it into practice.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: That allows it to go in.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: You know, when you're sitting there just scrolling through multiple choice questions, like something for your theory test, isn't it?
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: You know, you do your theory test alongside doing your practical test, and that's what I think works best with the exams, personally for me.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: I know everyone's not like that, but that's what I definitely found so how many years are you in now as in at this role?
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: On your journey that we're talking about, so you'd have been how many years into your career at foster de novo.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: I think I would be at junior power planner probably two years in.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: So two years, two and a half years, yeah, so from waitress to junior power planner in two years.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: Qualifications under your belt.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: Yep Levels of experience.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: Junior power planner.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: Tell me a little bit about that Around, sort of the difference between junior power planner and trainee.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: So it's just a bit more complex reporting side.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: So you'd get a bit more involved in writing your own reports now probably not doing as much research for other people because you're starting to write them.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: Not complex, you know.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: Your pension transfers that are a bit more complex, require a bit more research, a bit more compliance base, but still writing a lot more of those.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: Fantastic.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: How many people were you supporting in that situation?
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: Were you supporting power planners?
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: Were you supporting financial planners?
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: Was it both?
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: It's both, so I worked in a team.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: We call them that sort of a pod, so it's a pod of advisors who have their own client banks, and I was supporting three advisors at that time, which was quite nice.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: It's interesting, isn't it?
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: Because in that role, not only are you looking after the clients, you're also looking after the partners, so for you, you've got two stakeholders, almost.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah that's what it is At Foster de Novo.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: You know you've got two sets of clients.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: You've got the client who is paying for a service, and also the partner or advisors who are also paying for a service.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: So it's a balancing act.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: You're trying to balance it all, which is also a great skill to have as well, is also a great skill to have as well.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: At that point, were you starting to build relationships with those financial planners?
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: Were you starting to get sort of understand what they do, how they do it, the nuances of advice, the winning the client, how important the relationship was?
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, massively.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: You know just putting that.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: You know it's not a piece of paper anymore, this is a real life client at the heart of it.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: And I did have one advisor who would take me along some of his meetings just so I could sort of get a clearer picture when I was writing a report.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: And it it really does bring it to life when you've got a client who's sitting in front of you explaining their situation and they've worked 40 years and now they're ready to get out, how do they do that?
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: you know, it really puts that into perspective yeah, it's interesting, that isn't it?
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: because you look at the outsourced power planners and you can imagine that we're working with multiple different clients and they're not a multi-different clients.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: Are there to be multi different financial planning firms, I guess, like I wonder if in an outsourced power planning role, that's not to poo-poo it, because it's a fantastic service and there's some great companies out there, I've had them on the podcast.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: Brilliant stuff but, it does kind of perhaps remove you maybe from the process, unless it's like video based and you're jumping on calls on video based side of it to be client facing.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: Do you feel that by sitting in front of the client at that stage that you started to develop the understanding of the client but also the personality of the advisor to be able to match?
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: You know you have some advisors who are very particular and want things done in a certain way and you almost can't understand why that is the case.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: But then when you're sat in front of a client, it gives you so much respect for what they do.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, I sat in one meeting that I was sweating throughout.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: It was one of those uncomfortable ones, but the financial planner was amazing, you know, and just took it all in a stride.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: You know, could answer then and there, and I was sat there the whole time like oh my god, thank god that's not me, um, and that's always been my sort of input, but it was amazing to see and it gives you a level of respect for what they do.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: You know, you can some people think it's just the sales rather out there and they're selling.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: Well, not really.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: You know that client relationship is so important.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: So great.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: So it gave you a kind of level of respect for what they actually do.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: Do you sometimes feel pressure from financial planners?
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: How do you manage the expectation of financial planners?
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: Do you feel you have to do that?
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: Well, we have sort of you know, in a more junior level.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: You're not expected to do that because we have our team leaders, we have our managers who do a bit more of that, but I still think it's a really important skill to learn.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: So the quicker you start doing it, you know, the easier it is.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: But it starts as well.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: You know, if you manage the financial planners expectations, that's not enough.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: Like we said, we've got two clients.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: You need the financial planner to manage the client's expectation and that's where it is is that it needs to make sure it translates through the process.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: I think the junior exposure to being in meetings is valuable.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: It's huge, you know, and I think the earlier you can get a power planner into a client meeting or an administrator, the better because they're going to get a feel for the full journey, aren't they?
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: They understand it in more detail and you found respect, as you put it, to what they have to do and how they do it and how you approach the work that you do, very, very important.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: There's this kind of what I call the mushroom feed them shit and keep them in the dark mentality which often happens in things like administration You're over here and we're over here.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: You're the power planner, you're the administrator and we're the financial planner, and we'll keep it that way.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: it's just like we don't like to stay in a lane no we like to blur them over.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: You know everyone can help everyone.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: You know the paraplanner has skill sets that the the financial planner doesn't have.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: You know, like you said, some of them have gone through the roles and they have that level of experience, but some of them haven't.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: You know they've taken their exams, they've a financial planner.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: You know, they don't know the back office system or they don't have that extra level of technical knowledge of a defined benefit arrangement that they might not come across very often, and that's the thing, it's exposure, and it's what you see.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: So that's really important, so that's why I feel like it works hand in hand.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: So you're in that you start getting exposed to the client meeting, seeing the financial planners doing what they're doing, you must be pumped.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: Next step financial planner client facing absolutely not, no, definitely not right.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: That wasn't for me.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: Um, I was very much in the power planning role.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: I really saw the value in that and felt like that was my part to play and that that's where I wanted to stay.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: I also enjoyed the compliance side, which you get a bit more on the power planning element.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: So I really enjoyed that.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: So, no, it was definitely power planning all the way for me.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: So more interested in the technical side, more interested in what the problem solving side than the what was it about the client facing side that put you off the most, then?
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: I think again.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: I think it goes back to my millennial needs of not wanting to.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: You know, it's the I knew.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: You knew, with power planning, what you were getting as the unexpected when you're sat in front of a client and what they could throw out.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: I found that quite worrying right um, but I think as well, like I felt like I was getting that client relationship side from assisting the financial planner, that I almost didn't have that need to fill it by sitting in front of my own client and problem solving.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: I like the idea as well.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: It's like a control thing, isn't it?
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: You don't know what questions they're going to ask you and how they're going to ask you, and if you answer it the right way or the wrong way.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: You answer it the right way or the wrong way, I suppose, when you're sitting there and you've got a rule book and you kind of heard it over and over again.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: you're kind of picking out all these different things and going yeah, that's right, that's right, that's right, or that's wrong, that's wrong, or I think about it that way or I'll explain it this way.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: So you are reflecting more, aren't you?
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: So it's observation, observation, it's reflecting and then trying to articulate it in a way that that person then, when they receive, it is the best fact find, or you know, the best report back.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: So that person goes yeah, great, yeah, person really really got me yeah, that's valuable, right, because not a?
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: lot of planners, not a lot of financial advisors, enjoy administration, like some of them might find it really really hard, like the thought, the thought for me of having to write an email, sometimes like, oh my, I'd rather pick up the phone and have a conversation with somebody yeah, that's just who I am.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but for somebody like yourself.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: It's like no, I, I, I would prefer to be the person who gets it technically right, understand all the technicalities of it, and have that as my skill set and my value.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: I like that.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: So you kind of very quickly established that clash.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: You, though, have you ruled it out completely?
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: yeah, I have.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: I have now, you have yeah.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely have.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: Now I don't.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: It's definitely not for me, but I think you know, is you almost think, when you come into the business, that okay, I'll do admin, yes, I'll do the power planning side and okay, I'll need to be a financial planner.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: But I don't feel like that because there's so many other places to go, fantastic all right, so junior power planner role.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: How long were you in that position for?
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: oh, I think six months I was in that one um and I was promoted to a power planner, um, and I wasn't in that one very long because, uh, yeah, I sort of moved to doing my own stuff I was supporting.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: I was actually the sole power planner for those three people that I'd supported originally, right.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: And then COVID hit.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: And we needed someone to step up and manage the team.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: So I fell into a team leader role after that point because you know, we were amazing at getting into working from home.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: Our it team are ridiculous.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: You know, it was all sorted.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: We packed up one day and we're like, okay, you know, take a few files, get things scanned in.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: We stayed a bit later it was like, yeah, that'll be fine, see, we'll be back in like a couple of weeks, and that that wasn't the case.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: You know we had to learn to adapt to working fully from the office now to working fully remote.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: So that was quite a lot.
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: So I took on managing the team to keep us all together and make sure we were all communicating to keep everything flowing, the business going through.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: So power planner manager.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: So it was a team leader role, but I was actually managing power planners and administrators at the time role, but I was actually managing power planners and administrators at the time.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: Again, you know the opportunities to progress based on skill set.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: You were offered a role at waitrose as a manager right, and did you always have it in the back of your mind that management was the route for you as well?
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: no, no, no, okay, you know, I've never really thought about where I wanted to go, or had that mapped out.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, so how was it identified that you would make a good manager?
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: I think, just because I had done both those roles as well, I think that really helps is that I had the on-job experience of understanding that I'm really keen to develop people.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: So as I move through being developed by others, I was keen to develop those below me and make sure that they moved on as well, which is is very important in a manager, I think.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I think that's what was sort of identified when you're in that manager role.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: What?
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: What was the toughest part of being a manager?
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: because I've I've.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: I've been a manager and I didn't really enjoy it.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: I struggle with managing people, you know.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: I struggle to manage myself, uh, but managing others I found really difficult.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: Did you find it difficult or did you find it really interesting?
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: You know, what was your take on being a manager?
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: Was it a baptism of fire?
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: It was because it was COVID and you know it was like not only just learning how to be a manager, you're learning how to do that with the rest of us who have managed for 30 years online and how you would do that.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: So that was definitely a challenge but I loved it.
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: You know I'd gone from saying I wasn't really a people person.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: I didn't really want to do that side the client side and all of that to actually I really like this side and you know everyone can work together and recognize people's strengths, to come together to get the job done in the best way so from admin to manager.
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: How many years was that?
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: I think that was four years, three, three years, Three years Again, you know a really quick career progression into manager, going through your qualifications, power planning experience, into managing a team.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: I mean that's pretty, pretty impressive.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: Any mentorship along the way?
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely had them at sort of every step.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: So, like I said, I had a few advisors who really helped me, you know, took me to client meetings as a junior, things like that.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: Um, I also had one lady who was absolutely amazing when I first started out, who taught me everything I knew you know, she was at the other end of her career.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: She sort of had her career and was taking this job to sort of go towards, you know, partial retirement, slowing down that sort of side of things.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: And she was, you know, my strength and stay, as your majesty would say, but she just was.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: You know, she was calm, collected every time you had that difficult conversation.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: You know that's what I was listening to, that's the person I was listening to in the office.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: You know what, how's she gonna deal with this?
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: What's she gonna say?
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: And she was unbelievable and I really respected her for that that's beautiful.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: So those observations that you, where you've been mentored really well, you've learned from that mentor yeah, do you?
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: Do you find that you now mentor others in the same way?
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: I try to to.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: Definitely, because it was I think it's the biggest part of my journey.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: Without these people who gave up their time to show me how to do it, I wouldn't be where I am at all.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: You know the technical side, the technical knowledge.
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: The advisors that took me to a meeting and explained who I was as I sat there with clients know giving up their personal information.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: You know you have to ask permission for that.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of people that really helped me to do that.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: I think what's really important is when somebody gives you time and mentors you, and this is you have to give that back.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: It's very difficult to not give it back to somebody else when someone's giving you so much time, and I think that is the circle of development, because you get mentored, you learn, you mentor someone else, you learn again because how you?
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: Deliver.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: Uh, training how you deliver coaching is so different to taking it yeah definitely, and if you want to move on, I need someone to do what I'm doing.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah you know, and that's, that's a lot how we work as well.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: It's like I'll show you, because then you can come in and do what I need you to do, so I can go on.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: You know, it's also that side, so it's really rewarding for that, the other person, and it means that you get to progress as well.
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: So it's really valuable to do it that way so, covid hit, manage a.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: So COVID hit, manage your role.
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: Then what happened?
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: So then we grew as a team.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: Covid didn't slow us down.
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: We expanded, we ended up with a lot more clients.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: We were really busy hitting targets, which was amazing, didn't have time to think about what was going on, which was really nice.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: So we had that sense of a team, so we really grew.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: So I, you know, we had that sense of a team, so we really grew.
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: So I was hiring people to take on because at the start I was still doing the power planning as well as a team leader role which was quite difficult to do.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: A hybrid role.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: That can be quite difficult to make sure you're spreading your time in the correct way, especially when there's other people who are relying on you for that leadership.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, we grew the team and moved on and we sort of established a mini practice is what we called between the advisors and supporting them with their clients.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: I hope you were financially rewarded each of these steps.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, right good.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: Yes, but my question always first was what's my new title?
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: What's my new title?
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, you were motivated by the title more.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: Okay, that's really interesting.
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so title two is massively important.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: So I am I going to see you as a ceo or cfo or coo hopefully one day.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that motivates you.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely oh, I absolutely love that fantastic.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: Well, that's really good to hear.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: So let's just talk about building a team.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: Right, you're a manager.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: You've now built a mini department, as you put it right, servicing team what are you looking?
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: For when it comes to hiring people into your team.
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: What type of things are you looking for?
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: If you're looking at a power planner administrator?
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: Uh, or maybe regardless of the job title yeah, what are the things you're looking for from that person regardless.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: I'm looking for someone with something about them right, a bit of desire, a bit of you know.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: They might not have the qualifications or they might not have 20 years of experience, but they're hungry and they want to learn and they want to take that time.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: That is what I'm looking for when I hire people.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: So you're looking for attitude mindset.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, massively because the process side, the technical knowledge, that that can be taught.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: You know, we've, we can see that.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: You know in the exams that that's taught.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: But the right attitude cannot be you know, the attention to detail.
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: That's something that's in someone and that's what you're looking to identify I worry that there might be a lot of pressure on people to progress like you is that the case here at Foster and she stayed there.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: And we've got other people who just said you know what that paraplegic terrifies me.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: I don't want to deal with compliance, I don't want to know any of that, I just want to be really good administrator, and there's those levels to do that as well.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: But there's also.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: You don't have to stay there, you can still take elements from different parts that you're good at.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: We're really good at identifying what is someone's strength and how do we use that.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: Do you then those types of people?
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: I love the rock star superstar analogy, like you know there are superstars that you're a bit of a superstar.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: Someone keeps wanting to move forward.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: And you're a superstar.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: You're rock stars.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: You're solid rocks that are there and they're there.
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: And that's cool as well.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: You know, maybe they don't want to progress, they just want to be recognized and rewarded for the work that they do in that role.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: You know they're not seeking promotion or anything along those lines.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: And there's space.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: You need superstars and you need rock stars.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a balance.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: You need that.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: Otherwise, if you've got superstars, there's no one there carrying the core and training those people up, like we've said, and you need them in your team, don't you?
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: You need those people in your team.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: Definitely people in your team.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: Definitely they're really valuable.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: So you know you need balance.
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: It is a balancing act to identify what about things like qualifications, though?
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: do you find it hard to get the team to actually take time out to spend time on their qualifications?
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: Um, you know, is it getting them to be qualified?
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: Is that, is it taking longer?
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: Now?
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: Are people, uh, more busy in their personal lives, or?
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: yeah, I think obviously during covid people could take a bit more opportunity to do that.
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: There was less to do, so that that definitely helped.
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: But I think you know, with the right mentorship from the right place, you know people are keen and eager to do it and it's compartmentalizing it.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: It's the next exam.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: Just look at that one.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: Don't look at being qualified.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: Look at the next one.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: Don't look at how many you've got left to do.
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: Just put that down and and work towards it.
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: How do we get you there?
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: What can we do to help?
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: okay, so your journey doesn't stop there, then right you've got into the position, yeah, so when we established the practice.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: I became a junior practice manager because I had no experience in the practice manager side, which is a bit more sort of MI focused.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: You know you have a lot of client data, you're looking at the turnover, you're looking at the more business side of that, which was really interesting, something I definitely hadn't done before.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: Again had to lean on a lot of people to understand what that meant my managers, but also other people managing practice.
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: You know we'd come together and sort of discuss that and get that across.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: So I started off in in the junior role with not much experience that level and then moved to a practice manager once I'd got that experience level, got that under my belt and was there very interesting because people listening to this be like hang on practice, like it's foster de novo.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: That is the practice.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: So underneath foster de novo are like little mini practices, almost yeah, yeah yeah.
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: So we have sort of advisors that can sort of come together and set up a practice so they have shared administration support, whether that's from the administrators themselves or para planners you know, and they put those little practices together.
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: We call them pods, but practice sounds a little bit nicer, pods a little bit um.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: So that's what we established and it just helps to.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: You know, keep it tight, keep it together.
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: You know we really learn about our clients.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: You know we knew the 300 400 clients we're servicing at that time, because you get to know them, because you're dealing with them all the time.
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: Rather than a central model, that's what we really move towards you've constantly been evolving.
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: Do you ever kind of feel like you've evolved too quickly and you miss doing a specific aspect of the job all the time?
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: no, no, no, I don't.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: I don't because it's always the next element that I'm always really interested in and I've been able to not dictate that.
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: But if there's a business need and I set where I want to go, you know I can go, I want that bit and I can.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: I can say well, you know what?
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: Actually I think I need a bit more experience here.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: I need to stay here, do this a bit more and then I can move on.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: So you know, it's been quite flexible in that sense is that I could drive the pace of it and I've been able to do that give us a bit more insight into the practice manager responsibility.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: So if someone's like sitting in a power planner role now and they're thinking like I actually wouldn't mind being operational, I wouldn't mind understanding how the business runs and become a practice manager like you know, that's a great progressive step.
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: If someone's in a power planner role they want to do something different, then maybe they could do that.
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: I think those types of roles are going to open up more and more as well yeah, um just just just like the stark differences really and the things that you kind of all of a sudden you thought weren't that maybe didn't think took that much time and actually turned out that they were massively important and big learning curves for you yeah, I mean it's like that role we said about um, with the managing expectations on the client manager side.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: You know, practice manager side, you're doing that quite a lot.
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: You're managing the expectations.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: You know you're picking up the phone to that disgruntled client and having those conversations I was terrified of having it a few years ago.
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: You know I'm having those conversations with partners and being that sounding board for the team making sure we're all working together.
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: You know tasking in sort of looking at cases, making sure we've got enough detail that we are in the right place and moving forward, and you know what our figures look like.
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: Have we hit everything we need to have compliance, got any outstanding requirements?
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: Have we moved everything forward that we needed to there?
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: moved everything forward that we needed to there, so you're starting to build deeper relationships with key stakeholders within the business as a whole, your understanding of the different areas of the business and how it, then how it all goes into the practice itself.
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: Things like performance reviews, having to manage people, having uncomfortable conversations with these things that now you were having to do in there were your responsibility as well yes, yes, they were.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: So somebody who perhaps doesn't like being face to face with people as much in say a, I don't know, like there's a client meeting and then there's performance reviews.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely I think from the performance review side is that I'd been on the other foot and I knew how they feel when they're not so great, yeah.
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: But also I knew what they did for me, yeah, and I knew that they got me to where I needed to be, and sometimes it is having those difficult conversations with people so they better themselves.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: You know that's the outcome you want, right?
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: Is that someone turns around and goes oh, you know what actually?
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: yeah, I do need to work on that, and I think I'd found that when I was a bit younger, quite difficult to identify those in myself you know, what do I need to do?
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: I don't need to do that.
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: You know, it could be quite hard to hear feedback you know I had one advisor who gave me feedback constantly and sometimes I didn't want to hear it, but it made me who I am by, you know, actually sitting back and taking it on board and going oh you know what.
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: But I think as well, I learned that with age maturity, accountability.
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: You've got to know yourself a little bit before you can start helping other people.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: I think as well yeah, definitely, and that's part of the management training we give.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: You know you do like a self-reflective assessment.
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: You know you look at how you learn and then so you need to identify well, how do I learn to learn it it so that I can pass it on to other people?
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: How do they learn?
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: Am I communicating correctly with them?
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: Because that might be how I want to be communicated with.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: It doesn't mean that someone else is going to respond to it, and it's learning that people side.
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: Brilliant.
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: It's good to hear that those types of training that type of training, sorry is put into place, because it's very quick to put people into management positions just on the basis of perhaps they're doing a good job, you know, and to run a recruitment company, you'd have top recruiter billing away doing really great things with clients, et cetera, and you think, well, they're great, so they obviously could be a great manager and they could bring those more people on.
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: It kills them because they don't know how to manage and all of a sudden they're having to deal with management whilst having to deal with trying to write business as well and do their day jobs.
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: And God, I've learned the hard way on that one Lost a few really good people and that's just naivety on my part.
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: You know, and you look back on that now.
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: I didn't ever do that again.
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: There has to be a clear career framework and what goes alongside it is the development plan also that can evidence that they can do the job and that there's the right person there to mentor them to that they can do the job and that there's the right person there to mentor them, to train them and to show them the ropes in manageable, bite-sized chunks.
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: So it's good to hear that that is the case.
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: Where are you now?
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: So after that, I actually had a role made for me on my skill set.
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: So I am now a private wealth process manager, so really heavily involved in documenting the processes because that's the side I really loved, whether that's through our client division or our investment section.
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: So I document those processes, I improve them, I look to work with people to improve them and just making sure that we are moving forward and we're again evolving and also involved in our acquisition side.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: So we, we are growing.
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: We're on an amazing growth journey right now and it's a really exciting time to be at foster de novo.
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: So you know, in that side, in sort of how do we apply what we do, bring people in who've been doing something completely different, how do we align, how do we move forward?
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: um, yeah, and sort of from a project manager point of view which I've never done before, managing those projects, getting that experience yeah, and again training and support and development and guidance around all these type of new skill set that you've got, because this role sounds like it's been created for you, is it?
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: yeah, it has and it's sort of been identified the parts that I have done well through my career.
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: I now have been sort of picked out to do this role because I did this well when I did admin and also paraplying.
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: I did that bit.
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: So you know it's put all those elements together, um, but there's been amazing support from leadership.
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: You know lots of people have different skills sets.
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: You know we all have bits that we do really well and bits that you know we get by and we do, and it's taking those people you know going taking them out for a coffee you know, learning from them.
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: How can I, how can I do this part, you know, and how do you do this?
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: That that's what's been really important on that.
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: But yeah, there's definitely at every section there's been someone there to mentor me, to develop me, whether I've gone out looking for it or it's set there.
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: We definitely have more of a clear framework now and it is really important to have that clear track to run on, but it's not a set track.
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: You know you don't have to go this way.
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: You can go off and go that way and you can come back.
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: You know we really have that flexibility yeah, I love that flexibility absolutely.
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: So you don't.
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: Even if you put we went forward a little bit too quick, perhaps you might want to step back again to where you came from.
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: I heard recently someone left the business and came back yeah, so that's a really good indication that you know they always say don't eat meat.
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: But it's like actually in this case yeah, come on back.
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: What a great thing to do if it's the right environment, because you know, you don't know until you know right, and sometimes you've got to go away and have a look, and when you come back, happy days.
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: Females within financial planning there's a distinct lack of them, I think it's a distinct lack of females in financial services in general, and it's something that's changing.
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: I think the numbers are going up.
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: What's your take?
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: On it and the culture at Foster De Nevo and the leadership team Plenty of females.
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: Yes, we are quite, you know.
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: I think it is just.
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: You know it's a theme at the minute, isn't it?
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: Women in finance, and you know what is out there.
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: You go out into the city, you know, you get the train to bank or you go to Leadenhall Market and you look around and there's a load of men in suits.
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: And you come back in and we do have quite a few financial advisors who are male.
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: We do have females as well, but you look at our leadership team and it is predominantly women.
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: Does that motivate you Massively?
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it really does, because you see people in those roles that you can aspire to.
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: But it's not even about gender.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: It's identifying yourself in someone else, isn't it?
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: It's seeing that it's a lot easier when they're, you know, a woman, identifying another woman, but it's identifying those qualities and going right.
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: That's where I want to go, but, yeah, we're massive on that sort of empowerment, I think as well your prime example.
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: You created your career progression, um how you've been supported on the way you know.
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: Definitely a company that is fully inclusive and wants to promote women, men, everybody you know, at the end of the day, who wants to work within financial services and financial planning should have access to it and I think it creates diversity, and it creates diversity amongst the client bank as well and the types of people that you want to do business with and it's really, really important um.
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: What I love also is financial planners might well be listening to this and to hear your journey, the amount of energy and the effort that goes in to understanding every aspect of the job that you do would give me a great deal of confidence if you were my practice manager, you know, because I know that you can do yeah, I know that you can do the job on every angle, on every front.
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: I just want to know what's next for you, where you know this is your current role.
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: Right You're doing?
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: at the moment.
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, on the acquisition side.
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: Is it acquisitions Because it's a really exciting time for Foster De Nova.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: They've a huge investment.
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: They're going out I think three acquisitions in the last three months.
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: You know Roger's all over the news, yeah.
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: You guys are getting out there.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: To me over the last couple of years.
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: It's developing into a completely different business, you know, and it's exciting to see so for you.
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: What's next?
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: It's a really good question, because I think, if you ask me at every point that we've just gone over, if you ask me what's next?
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: Would I have been able to identify it?
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: Probably not.
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: And did I expect where it went?
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: Again, probably not.
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: So for me, it's going along with the journey and seeing where it takes me.
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I just find it really exciting that you know I get to be a part of the journey.
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: Well in um, yeah, I just find it really exciting that you know I get to be a part of the journey well, in a couple of months time, you'll have a baby.
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so that will slow the process down.
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: I'll have to stop for that.
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: Well, hey, it slows the process down.
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: It's part of life, isn't it?
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: definitely, but I feel like I'm at a good place.
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, um, I feel really supported as well, you know, and that I'll be coming back into my role.
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: Um, I feel assured that I'll be doing that and, yeah, I'll be back on my track and looking for the next place to run as a guy, we don't think about when we have children whether or not it's going to affect our life.
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: We kind of get a bit annoyed really that we don't you know same.
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: Paternity leave is only really just sort of come in it was like you have two weeks and see you later.
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: Um, was there a point where you were worried, like having a child and a career?
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: It doesn't worry you because a lot of women you you can get worried about, like, if I have a child, it's going to affect my career what is the?
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: you know you're younger than I am.
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: What's it?
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: like now, what do people worry as much?
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: Or is it just it's, it's, it's, it's absolutely fine, like it's totally acceptable and no one?
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: yeah, I think again, it's those leaders that you see around you.
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: You know there's a lot of mothers in our management team that have gone on.
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: You know they've done amazing things.
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: They've had children.
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: They come back and they've done even more amazing things.
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: So you, you see it happening around you.
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: So, no, it doesn't worry me.
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: I'm always excited for the fresh perspective that's going to bring.
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if I sounded a bit of an old fuddy-duddy then by saying that it's just, I'm interested.
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, I'm just genuinely interested Things like mental health as well well-being within the workplace.
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: I think historically no one really talked about work stress or depression or anxiety and if you talked about in the workplace, you were worried you'd lose your job, whereas now companies are spending time and investing in well-being for their employees definitely um, I think it's massively important because I think businesses have a duty of care to to deliver that and as employees we have accountability to ourselves to ensure that we are doing the right things around our mental fitness and taking those things that are put in front of us to hopefully better improve.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: But any kind of culture which becomes open and progressive is is is right in my eyes and that's a part of again the lack of fear in wanting to say something or express something, because once it's out, you can move forward, can't you?
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: and I think that works in the work in the workplace.
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: That's massive yeah, that's definitely the culture we have is is openness you know, and it is, at the end of the day, about the people.
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: You know you do a job and you have a job title, but you are a person yeah, and that's massively.
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: You know we have a lot of, but you are a person and that's massively.
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: You know we have a lot of wellbeing schemes and things like that to support people through that process.
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: Well, josie, listen.
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for breaking down your career journey.
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: I think it's going to be so interesting for those that are thinking about joining the financial planning profession and trying to understand and navigate all the different pathways that can go down, because all you ever see is an advert for an admin power planner or a financial planner.
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: But you've absolutely opened up a world of opportunities for others, and especially within Foster De Novo Now.
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: Helena told me that they are very much interested in junior people joining the business because of exactly this reason that you can progress really quickly through the business, get the right support, the right training.
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: You don't have to have experience to get into financial planning right.
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: Completely that's it.
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: That's what we're looking for.
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: We're looking for people who want to get in and get stuck in, and the opportunity is there.
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: Josie, thank you so much for your time today.
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: Appreciate it.
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much.