Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Woman visits gyno, gets slapped with $1 million lawsuit; Newborn twins bludgeoned dead, mom asks 'There were 2?'

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Woman visits gyno, gets slapped with $1 million lawsuit; Newborn twins bludgeoned dead, mom asks 'There were 2?' · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Triumph Channel one thirty two. Can you imagine going to
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Speaker 1: your doctor, Ladies, you're gynecologist, man, I really don't know
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Speaker 1: what to equate that too. I guess a urologist for
0:54
Speaker 1: a prostate exam. I don't know, and frankly, I don't
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Speaker 1: want to think about that right now. Okay, I haven't
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Speaker 1: had a second cup of yet, But imagine going to
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Speaker 1: your doctor and then suddenly you find out your doctor
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Speaker 1: has sued you for a million dollars. Goodbye savings account,
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Speaker 1: Goodbye I r A, Goodbye children's tuition savings plan, goodbye house,
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Speaker 1: goodbye car I Meancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank
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Speaker 1: you for being with us. That seemingly is just what
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Speaker 1: happened to a woman joining us right now. But first,
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Speaker 1: to Jennifer Tzikowski, Crime online dot Com investigative reporter, let
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Speaker 1: me understand this. So she goes to the gynecologist and
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Speaker 1: then she gets sued for a million dollars what happened
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Speaker 1: in the examination room. So there are so many layers
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Speaker 1: to the story that that have just boggled me, left
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Speaker 1: me shocked. Michelle Levine was merely looking to get her
1:57
Speaker 1: annual exam. This happened in July of truth in seventeen.
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Speaker 1: As you said, you know, millions of women do this
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Speaker 1: every year, and annual exams were typically covered through her
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Speaker 1: insurance with no auto pocket costs. She made an appointment
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Speaker 1: with Dr June's Song of New York Robotic Gynecology and
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Speaker 1: Women's Health. She found him from end line used website
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Speaker 1: and so being a trusted source, Michelle said she never
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Speaker 1: thought twice about making the appointment with him on the Okay,
2:27
Speaker 1: wait a minute, wait a minute, who wo wo wo woa,
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Speaker 1: Jennifer Sakowski, you know how much I love you, right,
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Speaker 1: But for us mere mortals, we have to take it
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Speaker 1: one sentence at a time. We can't. We can't take
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Speaker 1: it like a bullet. Okay, so let me understand this.
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Speaker 1: She has to go get her annual exam, which all women,
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Speaker 1: all people need to do preventative. She goes for her
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Speaker 1: annual exam, she finds this doctor you said through n
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Speaker 1: y U, one of my old alma maters, New York University. Okay,
3:02
Speaker 1: what happened then? So in the other part of that
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Speaker 1: ny U when she went to them about all this said,
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Speaker 1: he's voluntarily affiliated. Um, just doesn't work directly for them,
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Speaker 1: but he is advertised on their website that she found
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Speaker 1: them on. So she goes to this appointment on that day.
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Speaker 1: Michelle said, Doctor Song never gave her a pelvic exam
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Speaker 1: as is usually done at your regular annual exams, but
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Speaker 1: instead asked her, wait, wait, wait, did you say she's
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Speaker 1: going for a gynecological exam? Right? Yes, yes, you don't
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Speaker 1: want to pop up with cervical cancer for Pete site White.
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Speaker 1: How can you go for your annual pelvic exam and
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Speaker 1: then nobody looks at your pelvic area? How does that happen? Exactly?
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Speaker 1: That's it's it's mind bottling. Instead, doctor Song asked her
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Speaker 1: she was experiencing menstrual cramps, and he subsequently performed an ultrasound,
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Speaker 1: but keeping mine, Michelle said she told doctor Song that
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Speaker 1: she wasn't experiencing any cramps at the time of the exam,
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Speaker 1: but that she has experienced menstrual cramping as millions of
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Speaker 1: women do. She really thought it was protocol, it is practice,
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Speaker 1: and she noted the name of the practice being New
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Speaker 1: York Robotic Dynecology, and she thought, oh, maybe I'm getting
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Speaker 1: a fancy, you know, annual and this is different than
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Speaker 1: than a regular doctor than I'm used to. So she
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Speaker 1: goes through all that. Then she hits the bill. It
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Speaker 1: was four hundred and twenty seven dollars, which she would
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Speaker 1: have to stay out of pocket, and found out her
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Speaker 1: insurance was built overt hundred dollars by Songs Practice all
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Speaker 1: for this annual exam she thought would be fully covered
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Speaker 1: covered and it had always been the case through her
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Speaker 1: insurance in the past. So she did what many people
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Speaker 1: would do. She called the doctor's office to inquire about
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Speaker 1: the charges. She said the office wouldn't budge on the
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Speaker 1: price scene, so from there she did also what many
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Speaker 1: people would do after an unpleasant experience, and she took
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Speaker 1: that matter to Yelpac health Grades to review the doctor
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Speaker 1: she felt hat ripped her off so other women could
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Speaker 1: be warned. So those reviews led to Song finling a
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Speaker 1: one million dollar defamation lawsuit against her, and she has
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Speaker 1: already spent approximately twenty dollars in court costs for the case.
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Speaker 1: There was just a long pause, Jennifer Sakowski, because I'm
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Speaker 1: actually speechless. I'm feeling is that I must be missing
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Speaker 1: a piece of this puzzle. I mean, well, a dollar
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Speaker 1: bill for an annual pelvic where you'd get a PAP
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Speaker 1: snare and you don't get a pelvic exam, which is
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Speaker 1: why you're there. That along with a breast exam? A
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Speaker 1: million dollar lawsuit? What did she say in her yelp
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Speaker 1: review that could possibly justify a million dollars? Whoa a
6:14
Speaker 1: million dollar lawsuit? Okay? What? What? What was said in
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Speaker 1: the yelp review? She basically laid down exactly what happened,
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Speaker 1: just to warn other women um and she said it
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Speaker 1: by doing a Yelp review she had heard from other women.
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Speaker 1: Not only that, but the staff itself had replied to
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Speaker 1: her Yelp review saying that um in ultrasound was protocol
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Speaker 1: for all of the annuals at Dr Song's practice. So
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Speaker 1: it wasn't just Michelle from what she was seeing being
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Speaker 1: ripped off, but all of these women who were thinking,
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Speaker 1: you know, that that this was standard, that they had
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Speaker 1: to get this done, and that was not the case.
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Speaker 1: So Dr Song was floored. And you know, he has
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Speaker 1: he has the money, it's the power to do it,
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Speaker 1: to take her down with this one million dollar lawsuit.
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Speaker 1: And as Michelle and I have talked about, what seems
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Speaker 1: to be the saddest, craziest part of this all is
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Speaker 1: that anyone with that kind of money or should I
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Speaker 1: say power, can get offended by something as small as
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Speaker 1: a Yelp review, and they can turn it around because
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Speaker 1: they have the money to do so. And someone like
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Speaker 1: Michelle is forced to spend her life savings on a
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Speaker 1: frivolous long join me right now. The woman now facing
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Speaker 1: a one million dollar lawsuit because of her Yelp review
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Speaker 1: of a gynecologist, Michelle Lavaine. Michelle, I've read all about
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Speaker 1: your story and I it's hard for me to even
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Speaker 1: absorb what's happening. Do you mind telling me your story
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Speaker 1: from the beginning. UM. I found Doctor Song through n
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Speaker 1: y U land Gown website. He has his own page.
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Speaker 1: It's very professional looking and they're his practices listed everything.
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Speaker 1: And I trusted that institution, so I chose a doctor
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Speaker 1: from their site, UM and I went to him for
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Speaker 1: an annual exam. I had just recently switched insurances, so
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Speaker 1: he was only the second gynecologist I've ever went to
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Speaker 1: for an annual exam. Um And, as Jennifer said, UM,
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Speaker 1: I went in expecting to get annual That's what I booked.
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Speaker 1: When I went in, I asked me while I was there,
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Speaker 1: I said I was there for an annual, and they
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Speaker 1: all agreed with me. Doctor Song took me into his
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Speaker 1: office and started asking me questions about my history, which
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Speaker 1: was pretty normal. Um And towards the end of that interview,
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Speaker 1: he was again just asking me if I ever got
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Speaker 1: menstrual cramps, and like most women, I responded yes. He
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Speaker 1: asked me exactly two questions pertaining to that, how much
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Speaker 1: they hurt on the scale of one to ten when
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Speaker 1: I had them on their worst days, and where and
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Speaker 1: if it ever the pain ever radiated anywhere like it
9:19
Speaker 1: does for most women. I told him to my legs,
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Speaker 1: and I thought I was just answering questions because he
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Speaker 1: asked me other questions about my health. Um, nothing else
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Speaker 1: was indicated that he was concerned about it. He didn't
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Speaker 1: ask me if I had had them checked by other
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Speaker 1: doctors or it was a concern of mine. He just said, okay,
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Speaker 1: now we're going to give you an ultras sound. And
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Speaker 1: that seems a little weird to me, and maybe I
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Speaker 1: should have asked more about it, but I don't know.
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Speaker 1: I just always trusted doctors, so I was like, okay,
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Speaker 1: I mean I'm here for an annuel, so I guess
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Speaker 1: I'm getting an ultress sound. UM. I don't recall their
10:00
Speaker 1: being any other equipment in the office. Really. Um, I
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Speaker 1: wasn't weighed, none of that stuff that usually happens when
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Speaker 1: I go to a doctor. He did give me a
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Speaker 1: pass from here, but he did not give me any
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Speaker 1: of the other examinations like the pelvic or the breath
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Speaker 1: that's part of an annual. So I went with the ultrasound.
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Speaker 1: It didn't feel right what it was done, and I left.
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Speaker 1: Next thing, I know, I'm getting a bill. I don't
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Speaker 1: think he successfully charged my insurance because I had a deductible.
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Speaker 1: The whole cost went to me. He tried to charge
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Speaker 1: my insurance for over three dollars, but they said, no,
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Speaker 1: you can only charge her for this amount. So the
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Speaker 1: total was four and twenty four plus the fifty dollar
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Speaker 1: copay that I wasn't supposed to have to pay. I
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Speaker 1: called the office about this bill when I get it,
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Speaker 1: thinking it's a mistake and I couldn't believe it. Um
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Speaker 1: instantly on the other side, they got very aggressive and
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Speaker 1: they told me that I was there for pain with
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Speaker 1: teen radiating down my legs, and I instantly remembered that
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Speaker 1: question about the cramp. I was like, oh my god,
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Speaker 1: he just took that question and totally flipped it around
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Speaker 1: and turned it into the reason I was there. And UM,
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Speaker 1: they were very aggressive with me. They told me that
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Speaker 1: I was there for pain, and they were pretty much
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Speaker 1: essentially telling me that I had no choice over my visit.
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Speaker 1: Um Dr Songs. His opinion was that I had tell
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Speaker 1: Victaine and I should have all of this and if
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Speaker 1: I don't agree with him, I'm lying. And I've been
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Speaker 1: called a liar ever since the day I called about
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Speaker 1: the bill, and UM, I think since then, UM some
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Speaker 1: of his staff have come. I have a go fund
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Speaker 1: me page and I've had his staff, calm and and
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Speaker 1: and harassed me and promote his business on my own
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Speaker 1: fundraising page. And they're just still all over the internet
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Speaker 1: where they can just saying yeah, but you're only hearing
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Speaker 1: one aside, she's a liar. And I don't think that
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Speaker 1: people understand that. It isn't even them calling me a liar.
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Speaker 1: It's the whole action of even just suing your patient
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Speaker 1: and um. And in that first month of the lawsuit,
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Speaker 1: his lawyers posted all my medical records on the public
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Speaker 1: court system so anyone could see it. And they don't
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Speaker 1: ever seem to even care about that. But like, no, no, no,
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Speaker 1: you don't understand she's lying. Hold on, Michelle, Michelle White
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Speaker 1: a minute, White a minute meant all of your medical
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Speaker 1: records We're posted on a public webside by the doctor's
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Speaker 1: office by his lawyers. Yes, oh, my stars, all my
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Speaker 1: bills and everything, my bills, my insurance information, said how
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Speaker 1: much the ductive boy had, how much dama date, even
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Speaker 1: my photo just in case you weren't sure they were mine,
13:02
Speaker 1: with my name, I addressed my birthday. My driver's license,
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Speaker 1: the I D number was blocked out, but the rest
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Speaker 1: of my driver's license was plainest day. And um, when
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Speaker 1: when you say your medical records, do you mean not
13:17
Speaker 1: just your billing and address and so forth, but your
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Speaker 1: actual medical records regarding your health. Yes, the entire medical record,
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Speaker 1: the details of the sonogram, whatever mental health Mossy took
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Speaker 1: on me that day, although I did really he did
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Speaker 1: write down that he gave me an exam, and that
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Speaker 1: was another time when I noticed. I'm like, oh my god,
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Speaker 1: he wrote down did I had a breast and pelvic exam?
13:45
Speaker 1: But I didn't. And um, of course the vitals were
13:48
Speaker 1: left blank because I don't even remember him having a
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Speaker 1: scale in his office. So yeah, the whole thing was there.
13:55
Speaker 1: Let me understand this. You're saying he did perform a
13:59
Speaker 1: perhaps me. Yeah, isn't that what a pell that exam includes? No, Um,
14:06
Speaker 1: I know a lot of women know this. There's more.
14:09
Speaker 1: The pap smear is just you know, the screening for
14:11
Speaker 1: cervical cancer. Usually they feel around and make sure everything's
14:16
Speaker 1: in its bright order down there, I mean with the speculum,
14:20
Speaker 1: and they go in and visually examine your reproductive organs
14:24
Speaker 1: and do U. Yeah, okay, so are you sure that
14:28
Speaker 1: did not occur when he was taking the PEP smere um. Well, no,
14:32
Speaker 1: because on the records there's more details on it, Like
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Speaker 1: he thoroughly examined me. A pap smear is just a
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Speaker 1: quick test. It takes a little piece. Um, it's only
14:44
Speaker 1: a part of the that's true. That's true. That's where
14:48
Speaker 1: they use like the speculum where the pelvic exam they
14:52
Speaker 1: actually like usually go in like with their fingers and
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Speaker 1: feel um skilled reproductive organs. From my experience, well, yeah,
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Speaker 1: because you're pelvic organs such as uterus and ovaries cannot
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Speaker 1: be seen from outside your body. The doctor must pal
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Speaker 1: pay the abdomen and pelvis as part of the exam,
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Speaker 1: and during that time he she or he presses down
15:18
Speaker 1: on the outside of the lower abdomen and physically fills
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Speaker 1: your reproductive organs to make sure that they can't find
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Speaker 1: a growth, a lump, a sister, or anything they find
15:31
Speaker 1: out of the ordinary. They check the size and shape
15:34
Speaker 1: of your uterus and ovaries. They determine if there are
15:37
Speaker 1: any tender areas, unusual, gross and um. They do a
15:42
Speaker 1: rectal exam as well. That's something you'll definitely remember, Michelle
15:47
Speaker 1: Levine when you say they came on to your go
15:53
Speaker 1: fund me or your website and harass you. What do
15:56
Speaker 1: you mean by that? Him his filling manager. She wrote
16:00
Speaker 1: about a string of five maybe six comments, um promoting
16:06
Speaker 1: the business again. I don't understand why, because um, why
16:10
Speaker 1: she's doing this? She um technically was saying how great
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Speaker 1: it is that they give everyone an ultrasound, and how
16:18
Speaker 1: everyone is thankful for it, and and you know how
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Speaker 1: great they are and how they do accept criticism. But
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Speaker 1: I'm just lying and they don't know why I'm I'm
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Speaker 1: doing this to them again, behaving like victims, even though
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Speaker 1: I'm not the only bad review they have. And there's
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Speaker 1: other people who said the same exact things with me
16:41
Speaker 1: in their reviews. If they didn't get exams, and you
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Speaker 1: know they were charged for ultrasounds, that they're um. One
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Speaker 1: woman said her exam was misclassified as pell victim. UM.
16:53
Speaker 1: I have a friend who's a radiologist and she told
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Speaker 1: me that, I mean, again, I need this confirmed, but
16:59
Speaker 1: she said it. You can only give an ultrasound if
17:03
Speaker 1: the patient's complaining of pel victaine. So I wonder how
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Speaker 1: many people that went to this office he wrote down
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Speaker 1: pel victaine four. I could understand if you was some
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Speaker 1: doctor that didn't take insurance, and you wanted to have
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Speaker 1: an ultrasound just for the sake of having and he
17:20
Speaker 1: wanted to charge you. That's fine and dandy, but he's
17:24
Speaker 1: taking insurance and trying to and and and changing the
17:28
Speaker 1: reason for people's visits so that he can put the
17:30
Speaker 1: claim in. Well, this is what we know. Michelle posts
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Speaker 1: an internet complaint on Yelp. Millions of people do do
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Speaker 1: it every day. She gave a one star reviewed my understanding,
17:44
Speaker 1: and suddenly she is slapped with a one million dollar lawsuit.
17:52
Speaker 1: She's already paid over twenty thousand dollars to defend herself
17:56
Speaker 1: in this defamation lawsuit. Now, according to doctor Songs lawyers,
18:03
Speaker 1: they call Michelle's reviews quote outright lies. That quote can
18:09
Speaker 1: inflict serious damage to a medical practice or small business.
18:14
Speaker 1: Quote just because you're allowed to and are able to,
18:19
Speaker 1: doesn't mean you should do so without reservations about what
18:23
Speaker 1: you say. And that is Ariva Martin, one of Songs lawyers, quote,
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Speaker 1: your First Amendment right does not give you the right
18:33
Speaker 1: to defame someone. Now, the review was only up for
18:38
Speaker 1: sixteen days. It was a one star review. Michelle, what
18:44
Speaker 1: are you going to do? How are a million dollars
18:49
Speaker 1: plus legal fees. What will that do to you? Well,
18:53
Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, he's never gonna get a
18:55
Speaker 1: million dollars from me because I don't have a million dollars. Um.
19:00
Speaker 1: So that's sir stuff. But I don't know what to do.
19:02
Speaker 1: It's been really awful. I think that a lot of
19:05
Speaker 1: victims of these frivolous lawsuits don't come out because just
19:09
Speaker 1: by coming out, he put in a new motion that's
19:13
Speaker 1: going to cost me another twenty five thousand dollars to defend. Um.
19:18
Speaker 1: You know, he thinks that I should be like imprisoned
19:21
Speaker 1: now and in retract all my comments, even though none
19:24
Speaker 1: of them have been proved. They have yet to prove
19:27
Speaker 1: in any way that anything I've said is a lie,
19:29
Speaker 1: because they can't because I'm not lying. But I'm also
19:32
Speaker 1: concerned about publishing your medical history on the internet, including
19:36
Speaker 1: information about mental health, personal information like a home address,
19:41
Speaker 1: driver's license number. That's disturbing. Well, he thinks it's his
19:47
Speaker 1: right to do so because I've been talking about it.
19:51
Speaker 1: Not I did not tell anyone anything he posted. Honestly,
19:55
Speaker 1: I've I've just stayed with the review. Um. But he
20:00
Speaker 1: thinks that because I'm okay with talking about it, that
20:03
Speaker 1: it's now his right that he can post it because
20:07
Speaker 1: I don't care, and that's their mean argument, or that
20:10
Speaker 1: it was in a place not that many people would
20:13
Speaker 1: see it, but that's saying, well, you can take anyone's
20:16
Speaker 1: patient history and post it anywhere, as long as you
20:19
Speaker 1: don't think a lot of people are going to see
20:21
Speaker 1: it there. And this is generally um um advice. Truth
20:28
Speaker 1: is an absolute defense. If you state the truth about
20:33
Speaker 1: your experience, that is an absolute defense. If you make
20:37
Speaker 1: broader conclusions that there is a scam factory going on,
20:42
Speaker 1: or that a lot of other women have had the
20:44
Speaker 1: same experience, you're going to have to prove that. Remember,
20:49
Speaker 1: truth is a complete defense. Now, what does this mean
20:53
Speaker 1: to Jennifer Zigowski, Crime online investigative reporter. This doctor doctor
20:59
Speaker 1: Song has every two d views on zot doc, most
21:03
Speaker 1: of them are positive. He gets a one and a
21:05
Speaker 1: half stars on Yelp. What does that mean for people
21:09
Speaker 1: not familiar with yelp? Basically, if you're not familiar with yelp,
21:15
Speaker 1: and let's say today that I want to make an
21:18
Speaker 1: appointment with H O, B, g U, Y N or
21:21
Speaker 1: dentists and I want to see what other people's experiences
21:25
Speaker 1: were So I'm going to google the name plus reviews,
21:29
Speaker 1: and normally Yelp is one of the first websites that
21:33
Speaker 1: comes up that will show you know, people's experiences within UM,
21:40
Speaker 1: within that practice, and that goes the same for Dr
21:45
Speaker 1: June's songs practice. Now, it's kind of interesting when you
21:49
Speaker 1: go on to Yelp under Dr June's song's name, there's
21:54
Speaker 1: an alert that comes up. It says active clean up alert.
21:58
Speaker 1: This business quote this business recently made waves in the news,
22:02
Speaker 1: which often means that people come to this page to
22:05
Speaker 1: post their views on the news. Well, we don't take
22:08
Speaker 1: a stand one way or the other when it comes
22:09
Speaker 1: to these news events. We do work to remove both
22:13
Speaker 1: positive and negative posts that appear to be motivated more
22:16
Speaker 1: by the news coverage itself than the reviewers personal consumer
22:20
Speaker 1: experience with the business. Goes on to say, uh, some
22:23
Speaker 1: other things about that UM. But you know, Michelle brought
22:29
Speaker 1: up something interesting me last night as well. When you're
22:33
Speaker 1: going through the Yelp reviews, you see most of them,
22:38
Speaker 1: to the naked eye look positive. Michelle has hers been
22:42
Speaker 1: there with more star um and laying out everything, but
22:46
Speaker 1: most look positive. You have to actually look a little
22:49
Speaker 1: bit closer where it says ten other reviews that are
22:54
Speaker 1: not currently recommended, so you can see those, but you
22:58
Speaker 1: have to click on them in order to see them.
23:00
Speaker 1: So your average person who might not know much about Yelp,
23:04
Speaker 1: you won't know to to also check out those reviews
23:07
Speaker 1: that that are you know, way at the bottom of
23:11
Speaker 1: yelps that they are not advertising like they are those
23:14
Speaker 1: five stars. And then Michelle's want star. Ashley Willcott, juvenile judge,
23:21
Speaker 1: lawyer and founder child crime watch dot com. Ashley all
23:27
Speaker 1: this a million dollar lawsuit over a Yelp review, Right, Nancy,
23:31
Speaker 1: Let's talk about consumer freedom of speech. So we know
23:34
Speaker 1: that the First Amendment gives consumers the right to express
23:38
Speaker 1: their opinions so long as, like you pointed out, they're honest,
23:43
Speaker 1: they can still be critical. And Yelp is an organization
23:46
Speaker 1: that does a lot of work to protect consumer freedom
23:49
Speaker 1: of speech. In fact, they were actually involved in legislation
23:54
Speaker 1: that President Obama assigned in called the Consumer Review Fairness Act,
23:59
Speaker 1: which empowers and protects consumer speech online. So Yelp as
24:04
Speaker 1: a company that's going to protect consumers as much as
24:06
Speaker 1: they can, and in this case, I don't wonder but
24:10
Speaker 1: if they learn of or know of this entire lawsuit,
24:14
Speaker 1: what recourse they may seek to prevent this in the future,
24:17
Speaker 1: So long as her review was honest. You know that's
24:21
Speaker 1: been passing so many states, New York is not one
24:25
Speaker 1: of them. Now see I find that disturbing because YELP
24:30
Speaker 1: is worldwide, right, so for it to be piecemeal, like
24:35
Speaker 1: you're protected in some states but not New York, I
24:40
Speaker 1: find that to be very h an unequal distribution of
24:44
Speaker 1: justice for saying, Georgia, you're protected, New York you're not.
24:47
Speaker 1: How can that be? Ashley? And and that's part of
24:50
Speaker 1: the reason YELP has gone to federal legislation, right, because
24:54
Speaker 1: once you have a president signed federal legislation, as you
24:57
Speaker 1: well know, states can come up with different laws, but
25:00
Speaker 1: it can't violate any of the federal laws. So it's
25:03
Speaker 1: a work in progress and ongoing. But as these lawsuits
25:07
Speaker 1: come up that put consumers at such financial risk and
25:11
Speaker 1: emotional risk, I think, you know it's going to continue
25:14
Speaker 1: to advocate for federal legislation that makes it protected speech
25:19
Speaker 1: in every state. To Dr Brian Russell joining us not
25:23
Speaker 1: only a lawyer, but a psychologist and host of investigation
25:27
Speaker 1: Discoveries Hit series Fatal Valves. Dr Brian Um. You know,
25:34
Speaker 1: when I think about this woman, when I think about
25:37
Speaker 1: Michelle's predicament, she goes online, she posts a bad review
25:41
Speaker 1: and get sought with a million dollar lawsuit. Yeah, there
25:44
Speaker 1: are a couple of things that I think I can
25:47
Speaker 1: add here as uh the only healthcare professional clinician I
25:54
Speaker 1: think that's on with us today. If I'm wrong, correct me.
25:58
Speaker 1: But I uh do know. And this is not anything
26:02
Speaker 1: to do with this woman's review of this doctor. This
26:05
Speaker 1: is just an observation that I will share with you,
26:07
Speaker 1: just for some context. There are a lot of defamatory
26:11
Speaker 1: reviews of healthcare professionals out there. For example, there are
26:16
Speaker 1: a lot of opioid speakers who will go to a
26:20
Speaker 1: doctor with some kind of a vague or flimsy sounding
26:24
Speaker 1: requests for pain medication, not get it, and then go
26:27
Speaker 1: write a review that says, you know, this doctor doesn't
26:30
Speaker 1: care about patients, he left me in pain, he didn't
26:32
Speaker 1: mind that I was in pain, things like that. Now
26:35
Speaker 1: that said, in this case, I agree with you totally.
26:39
Speaker 1: If the if the plaintiff is not able, if the
26:43
Speaker 1: doctor is not able to prove that there's at least
26:45
Speaker 1: one lie and that review. Then I see this woman
26:50
Speaker 1: not only winning but also getting her attorney's fees paid.
26:54
Speaker 1: And I think that the trouble for the doctor may
26:56
Speaker 1: not end there because it does sound as the based
27:01
Speaker 1: on what she told us this morning, the lawyers have
27:04
Speaker 1: made filings that include protected health information that you can't
27:10
Speaker 1: just you know, if you're a doctor and your lawyers
27:14
Speaker 1: do something on your behalf, that's the same as you
27:17
Speaker 1: doing it. And you cannot publicize people's private health records
27:22
Speaker 1: even in legal findings. A sorry, even in legal filings
27:26
Speaker 1: if they did not put their health at issue in
27:30
Speaker 1: the case in this case, she didn't put her health
27:32
Speaker 1: at issue. The doctor put it an issue. And so
27:36
Speaker 1: you know, I think there may be some serious consequences
27:39
Speaker 1: here for this doctor in terms of violation of this
27:42
Speaker 1: woman's privacy, even though it was the lawyers who did. Yeah,
27:46
Speaker 1: when your lawyers do it, that's the same as you
27:48
Speaker 1: doing it. And I'm just very concerned about putting her
27:52
Speaker 1: medical records online, uh silent, and the lawyers had to
27:56
Speaker 1: know that would become public record. Just the whole scenario
28:01
Speaker 1: now here is um to Ashley and Dr Brian. Maybe
28:06
Speaker 1: I'm splitting hairs. But for Michelle to say I got
28:10
Speaker 1: a bad I had a bad experience. He didn't do
28:12
Speaker 1: a pelvic exam and he overcharged me, it's not correct.
28:16
Speaker 1: That's different from saying something something like he's running a
28:21
Speaker 1: scam factory. He does this all the time. He's making
28:26
Speaker 1: fake insurance money for things he didn't do. If you
28:29
Speaker 1: say something like that, Dr Brian Russell, that's a different
28:32
Speaker 1: can of worms. That's absolutely right. And and just for
28:35
Speaker 1: our listeners, uh education from that, you know. I always
28:40
Speaker 1: like listeners to be able to take away a lesson
28:43
Speaker 1: that can can maybe help them avoid some trouble in
28:46
Speaker 1: their own lives. When you go to a doctor for
28:49
Speaker 1: a preventative preventative exam, many people today with their Affordable
28:55
Speaker 1: Care Actor Obamacare insurance policies, have certain preventative services that
29:01
Speaker 1: are covered that do not come off your deduct don't.
29:04
Speaker 1: You don't have to pay a deductible or anything. They
29:07
Speaker 1: are just included. You pay for them, of course, and
29:09
Speaker 1: your premium staff the year. But if you go, for example,
29:13
Speaker 1: I have something called a well man exam in my
29:16
Speaker 1: coverage where I can go and have a basic check
29:18
Speaker 1: up once a year without having to pay anything. It
29:22
Speaker 1: doesn't that I don't have to meet my deductible first,
29:24
Speaker 1: nothing like that. But if I go to that exam
29:27
Speaker 1: and at that exam the doctor says, you know, you
29:30
Speaker 1: have a mole that doesn't look right to me, I
29:34
Speaker 1: would like to buiopsy that, or I'm going to buiopsy that,
29:38
Speaker 1: And I say, okay, go ahead, and they buiopsy. It's okay.
29:42
Speaker 1: Now that's not a preventative service at that point. That
29:46
Speaker 1: is that is a different thing. That might be something
29:52
Speaker 1: where I am going to have a charge now if
29:54
Speaker 1: I haven't not my deductible for the year. So always
29:56
Speaker 1: ask if they tell you they're going to do something else,
29:59
Speaker 1: which would they the basic equivalent to her ultrasound, which is,
30:05
Speaker 1: I guess more than preventative. Now, this is exactly, and
30:08
Speaker 1: I'm gonna quote her review quote very poor and crooked
30:13
Speaker 1: business practice. I suspect that this doctor gives a necessary
30:18
Speaker 1: procedure to a lot of people and then charges the
30:23
Speaker 1: insurance sky high prices and no one knows the difference.
30:29
Speaker 1: Everything about my one and only visit here has caused
30:34
Speaker 1: me emotional distress and panic, and now they want me
30:37
Speaker 1: to cough up an extra five hundred dollars for services.
30:42
Speaker 1: I didn't even need that to my understanding was the review.
30:48
Speaker 1: Two weeks later, she got gets an email telling her
30:52
Speaker 1: she's being sued. Now that's pretty that's pretty serious, some
31:00
Speaker 1: million dollar in lawsuit. But we here a very short review. However,
31:06
Speaker 1: it does say everything about my one and only experience
31:10
Speaker 1: has caused me distress and panic. That is not actionable.
31:15
Speaker 1: Now Here here's a concern, very poor and crooked business practice.
31:20
Speaker 1: I suspect this doctor gives unnecessary procedures to a lot
31:23
Speaker 1: of people and charges the insurance sky high prices and
31:27
Speaker 1: no one knows the difference is that Dr Brian going
31:31
Speaker 1: beyond reviewing her experience. So the only thing that you
31:36
Speaker 1: just quoted to me that I think could potentially be
31:40
Speaker 1: defamation is the word crooked, because before she predicates the
31:45
Speaker 1: rest of it with I suspect. People can say that
31:48
Speaker 1: they suspect things, they think things, and that is an opinion,
31:53
Speaker 1: that's not the samatory. But saying that somebody is crooked
31:57
Speaker 1: is implying that they are dishonest criminal. Now, one piece
32:02
Speaker 1: of good news for her is even if she were
32:05
Speaker 1: deemed to have defamed this doctor by saying he's crooked,
32:09
Speaker 1: And the real truth is, you know that they just
32:12
Speaker 1: had a disagreement or she didn't understand or whatever about
32:15
Speaker 1: the services. He would still have to prove that she
32:18
Speaker 1: damaged him to the tune of a million dollars to
32:21
Speaker 1: get a million dollars, and that's never going to happen.
32:24
Speaker 1: He is never going to prove that she did a
32:26
Speaker 1: million dollars of damage to his reputation. So at least
32:30
Speaker 1: that she can breathe a little bit easy on that.
32:32
Speaker 1: Have you ever heard the phrase to Dr Brian Russell
32:36
Speaker 1: or Ashley Wilcott, don't stir the pot? Have you ever
32:39
Speaker 1: heard that? Because if I would be willing to bet
32:45
Speaker 1: that her y'all preview one out of hundreds, ye'all previews
32:49
Speaker 1: good and bad, wouldn't amount into a hill of beings.
32:52
Speaker 1: But now that he sued her for a million dollars
32:55
Speaker 1: and put her medical records basically on the internet by
33:00
Speaker 1: by entering them into evidence on a public court record,
33:05
Speaker 1: now he has gotten all that press and now people
33:09
Speaker 1: do know about the bad review and the allegations. If
33:12
Speaker 1: they didn't know about it before, they sure as heck
33:15
Speaker 1: know about them now. Now some people would argue that's
33:19
Speaker 1: cutting off your nose despite your face. Ashley Willcott, absolutely,
33:24
Speaker 1: I think he's trying to create his own damages and
33:26
Speaker 1: then blame her and say, if you hadn't written this review,
33:29
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have all these negative attention from media and people.
33:33
Speaker 1: And my frustration in this case is that there are
33:36
Speaker 1: lawyers that are gonna start by saying you owe us
33:39
Speaker 1: a million dollars. We're filing a lawsuit because this was defamation.
33:43
Speaker 1: Yelped specifically provides, as do most websites, recourse by writing
33:48
Speaker 1: a response, having messaging, so you know, this doctor could
33:52
Speaker 1: have taken the high road and said I disagree with her.
33:55
Speaker 1: I think it's defamation. She called me crooked. I'm gonna
33:59
Speaker 1: take steps to make certain that my patients that I
34:02
Speaker 1: care about know that I am not crooked, that I
34:05
Speaker 1: am not doing anything bad, that I am treating my
34:07
Speaker 1: patients well, and written a response and done messaging and
34:11
Speaker 1: done a campaign on social media to correct the misconception
34:15
Speaker 1: that he believes she portrayed. Instead, they slap a big
34:18
Speaker 1: lawsuit and create a whole lot out of almost nothing,
34:21
Speaker 1: joining me out of l A is my partner in crime,
34:25
Speaker 1: Alan Duke, along with Jackie Howard here in the studio
34:28
Speaker 1: with me Alan. Has she started a go fund me account? Yes,
34:34
Speaker 1: she has, Nancy, And first of all, you can read
34:37
Speaker 1: about it and see it, and it's linked to in
34:39
Speaker 1: Jennifer's story on crime online dot Com. That might be
34:43
Speaker 1: the best way to find it. Yep, you're right, guys.
34:47
Speaker 1: This has gone haywire where a woman goes and gets
34:52
Speaker 1: her annual or think she is pelvic exam and ends
34:56
Speaker 1: up bringing home a one million dollar at lawsuit. You
34:59
Speaker 1: can find it at right to Yelp with Michelle Levine.
35:06
Speaker 1: For more on this story, go to crime online dot
35:09
Speaker 1: com for all the details, including the god fund Me site.
35:14
Speaker 1: Michelle Levine facing a one million dollar lawsuit for a
35:20
Speaker 1: single Yelp review of a gynecologist she visited one time.
35:26
Speaker 1: Even if she wins the lawsuit, will she be out
35:31
Speaker 1: tens of thousands of dollars to defend the lawsuit? If
35:36
Speaker 1: she were to win the lawsuit, the judge or jury
35:40
Speaker 1: could award her lawyer's fees. We wait to see as
35:47
Speaker 1: justice unfolds, Michelle Levine. Women all over the country are
35:53
Speaker 1: watching your case. There's a brand new website causing a
35:58
Speaker 1: lot of trouble for people with something to hide? Have
36:00
Speaker 1: you ever had a bad feeling about somebody, suspect that
36:03
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36:07
Speaker 1: you answer yes to any of those questions, you may
36:10
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36:30
Speaker 1: finder dot com slash Nancy and enter any name to
36:34
Speaker 1: get started. A Florida woman gives birth to a stillborn
36:38
Speaker 1: baby boy, and now she has charged with murder of
36:43
Speaker 1: an infant girl. How does that work? I Nancy Grace,
36:48
Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
36:50
Speaker 1: We're going live now to West Millbourne, Florida with John
36:54
Speaker 1: Limley Crime stories dot Com investigative reporter John Limley. The
36:59
Speaker 1: woman give birth to a baby boy who is still born,
37:03
Speaker 1: and she's charged with the murder of an infant girl.
37:06
Speaker 1: Now explain to me how that happened, well, Nancy. Officers
37:10
Speaker 1: received a nine one one call shortly after three o'clock
37:14
Speaker 1: on a Sunday afternoon a woman says she's given birth
37:18
Speaker 1: unexpectedly to a child that isn't breathing. When police arrived,
37:23
Speaker 1: they indeed find the child. It's a baby boy, unresponsive.
37:28
Speaker 1: While one cop is questioning the mom, other officers start
37:33
Speaker 1: looking over the scene and they come across a pile
37:36
Speaker 1: of bloody towels next to a garbage can, and that's
37:40
Speaker 1: when they realize that there's much more to the story
37:43
Speaker 1: that then the mom is letting on. They're inside the
37:47
Speaker 1: trash ben is the corpse of a newborn girl wrapped
37:51
Speaker 1: in a plastic grocery bag. In addition to those bloody
37:54
Speaker 1: towels that first tipped them off, they also find medical
37:59
Speaker 1: wrap and toilet paper stacked around. Someone has obviously tried
38:03
Speaker 1: to hide the evidence of another child. Okay, I'm trying
38:08
Speaker 1: to take all of that in. Take a listen to
38:13
Speaker 1: the body cam from the cops who show up on
38:16
Speaker 1: the scene. Let's hear it as it happens. The baby
38:18
Speaker 1: crying when when you first when you first gave birth, Oh,
38:22
Speaker 1: you don't remember if the baby was crying or anything
38:24
Speaker 1: like that. There was only one. I think I only
38:28
Speaker 1: felt one. Why only saw one? So let me understand
38:35
Speaker 1: this To John Linley. She said she didn't know there
38:37
Speaker 1: were two babies, that she only gave birth to one
38:40
Speaker 1: correct while on the scene. She's heard several times in
38:44
Speaker 1: the cops body Kim saying that she had no idea
38:48
Speaker 1: she was even pregnant before giving birth and there while
38:51
Speaker 1: still at the house. While being treated at the hospital,
38:55
Speaker 1: Rachel claims she knew of only one child. She says
38:58
Speaker 1: she never saw the boy baby open his eyes, cry
39:02
Speaker 1: or breathe, and that he was blue and cold to
39:06
Speaker 1: the touch, according to the police officers. She tells officers
39:11
Speaker 1: she had been at work around nine a m. On
39:13
Speaker 1: Sunday and began to feel unwell, came home, had no
39:17
Speaker 1: idea she was pregnant with twins, and gave birth trying
39:21
Speaker 1: to use the bathroom all right, straight out to Ashley Willcott,
39:28
Speaker 1: Atlanta juvenal judge. Lawyer founded a child crime watch dot
39:34
Speaker 1: com and mother most importantly in this scenario, Ashley, it's
39:39
Speaker 1: kind of hard to believe you're pregnant with twins and
39:41
Speaker 1: you didn't know you were pregnant. You know, it's hard
39:43
Speaker 1: to believe. Unfortunately, as a judge in juvenile court, I
39:47
Speaker 1: see this that parents, mothers come in and say I
39:49
Speaker 1: didn't even know I was pregnant. Generally, most often it's
39:53
Speaker 1: because they're on drugs. Um there's obviously an issue with them,
39:57
Speaker 1: and they are out of it and don't even realize.
40:00
Speaker 1: It's unbelievable, it's unacceptable. But I see it happen, and
40:04
Speaker 1: I can promise you that hospital is gonna have a
40:06
Speaker 1: toxology toxicology report pending. So far, we don't know anything
40:11
Speaker 1: about this woman being on drugs. But what we do
40:14
Speaker 1: know is she claimed she had no idea she was
40:16
Speaker 1: pregnant with twins. She had no idea she gave birth
40:20
Speaker 1: to twins. That she owing you about one baby boy
40:23
Speaker 1: that was found that was born still born. So Dr
40:27
Speaker 1: Brian Russell, lawyer, psychologist and host of the hit series
40:31
Speaker 1: on investigation Discovery Fatal Vows, how is it that police
40:35
Speaker 1: find a second baby, an infant girl, dead in a
40:40
Speaker 1: plastic bag beneath a bag of cat litter. The baby
40:47
Speaker 1: is wrapped in a plastic bag hidden under used cat litter.
40:54
Speaker 1: Help me out, Dr Brian, Well, so here is I
40:58
Speaker 1: think what Ashley said is true. I've I've seen similar cases. However,
41:03
Speaker 1: any time, and you and I talked about this all
41:06
Speaker 1: the time in many types of cases. Any time you
41:09
Speaker 1: see somebody who is professing to be out of it
41:13
Speaker 1: and you think, well, maybe there's substance abuse, maybe there's
41:17
Speaker 1: mental illness, whatever, and then you start to see active concealment,
41:23
Speaker 1: you start to I mean, it's a form of lying, right, Okay,
41:26
Speaker 1: So right there, you've got somebody who is conscious of
41:30
Speaker 1: having done something wrong, and you know, we get the
41:33
Speaker 1: excuse going all the way back to Casey Anthony of well,
41:36
Speaker 1: I was scared, I panicked. Okay, that doesn't cut it.
41:39
Speaker 1: People who get scared and panicked call for help and
41:42
Speaker 1: they get it. But people who are scared and panic
41:46
Speaker 1: because they know that if the help comes they're going
41:49
Speaker 1: to be in trouble, start concealing and then when they
41:52
Speaker 1: get caught concealing, making up live Now, according to her
41:57
Speaker 1: Rachel Thomas, she had no idea she was pregnant, and
42:01
Speaker 1: in fact continued having a minstrel cycle up until the
42:04
Speaker 1: time of the birth. To Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert,
42:08
Speaker 1: isn't that biologically impossible? Yes, yes, it is. Nancy. I
42:14
Speaker 1: think that she she's essentially, uh trying to get these
42:21
Speaker 1: people to think that she's delusional when you see what's done,
42:24
Speaker 1: what has been done to these little angels that are
42:28
Speaker 1: no longer with us. Uh, yeah, I don't. I don't
42:32
Speaker 1: think that that's accurate. Well, you know, Ashley Wilcott, you
42:35
Speaker 1: sound what you're kind of taking her side, that maybe
42:38
Speaker 1: she had a drug problem, maybe has she had a
42:40
Speaker 1: some What about the baby, the two dead babies, they're
42:44
Speaker 1: the ones with the problem. Yeah, I'm absolutely not taking
42:48
Speaker 1: her side. I think you are, Ashley. How you see
42:52
Speaker 1: it all the time and they don't know better and
42:54
Speaker 1: they have a drug problem. When when no, I don't
42:58
Speaker 1: believe that they that they get away with the excuse
43:01
Speaker 1: of I have a drug problem. That's a person's choice.
43:04
Speaker 1: And she has abused, neglected, murdered two children as a result.
43:07
Speaker 1: So I absolutely think it's horrible for these children. But
43:10
Speaker 1: you know, quite frankly, I'm pretty black and white stopped
43:13
Speaker 1: doing drugs. Well here again, I don't have any information
43:16
Speaker 1: that she was doing drugs, but I do know this.
43:20
Speaker 1: I know what the autopsy says. The autopsy says that
43:24
Speaker 1: the babies died a blunt force trauma to the head.
43:31
Speaker 1: That's what I know, is that correct? John Limley and
43:34
Speaker 1: the autopsies revealed that the two twins were thirty eight
43:39
Speaker 1: weeks old. You mean thirty eight weeks in gest station.
43:42
Speaker 1: They're not eight weeks old, correct, which means that they
43:46
Speaker 1: were almost full term. Actually, well kind of if they
43:51
Speaker 1: were thirty eight weeks I mean my children, the twins
43:55
Speaker 1: were in nikki for so long because they were just
43:58
Speaker 1: at thirty weeks when they were born. And we all know,
44:02
Speaker 1: and as a mother, your body changes, so you know,
44:04
Speaker 1: when you're pregnant their sides right, Your stomach gets bigger,
44:07
Speaker 1: and you don't have a period. There are lots of
44:09
Speaker 1: physical results of being pregnant. The blunt force trauma to
44:13
Speaker 1: me changes the entire picture of what's happened. She I
44:17
Speaker 1: would argue, knew she was pregnant, had two kids, and
44:19
Speaker 1: murdered them. According to an affidavit filed by West Melbourne
44:22
Speaker 1: Police and obtained now, Thomas changed her story several times,
44:29
Speaker 1: denying she gave birth to more than one baby, claiming
44:33
Speaker 1: that she gave birth to the baby boy, wrapped him
44:37
Speaker 1: up in the shirt, never saw him open his eyes
44:40
Speaker 1: or cry or breathe, and began quote cleaning up the mess.
44:44
Speaker 1: But there's more than that. John Limley. It was in
44:47
Speaker 1: the e R that she repeats that statement about being
44:51
Speaker 1: aware of just one child. Then, and get this, just
44:55
Speaker 1: one minute later, her story changes. She now says she
44:59
Speaker 1: gave birth to twins. No, no, don't mean any noise
45:02
Speaker 1: there anything else? Okay? How many was there? And they
45:07
Speaker 1: were both? Then I got scared? There we hear her
45:11
Speaker 1: and one of her story changes, admitting that there were
45:16
Speaker 1: two babies to Alan Duke, Alan, what can you tell
45:20
Speaker 1: me about computer searches? As you know, when you do
45:23
Speaker 1: a thorough investigation, you go and you look at what
45:26
Speaker 1: people have been doing on Google and elsewhere on their computers,
45:29
Speaker 1: and guess what they found that this lady allegedly did.
45:34
Speaker 1: They found she had been searching just a couple of
45:35
Speaker 1: weeks earlier how to induce labor. What would that tell you?
45:40
Speaker 1: She was thinking, what would that tell you? Dr Brian Russell,
45:44
Speaker 1: you're the shrink. Sounds to me like she knew she
45:46
Speaker 1: was pregnant. Guys, we are waiting for justice to unfold
45:50
Speaker 1: and what potentially is a double murder case. Will the
45:53
Speaker 1: case be pled down because they were infants that lost
45:56
Speaker 1: their lives? We see that happened so often. This is
46:00
Speaker 1: what we know two infants dead of blunt forced trauma
46:05
Speaker 1: to the head, lying to police apparently trying to induce
46:11
Speaker 1: labor one infant girl interesting. She picked the girl to
46:17
Speaker 1: wrap up in a plastic bag and hide under used
46:20
Speaker 1: kitty litter John Linley. Are there other children in the home?
46:24
Speaker 1: Rachel has two other children, and deputies say they're now
46:28
Speaker 1: staying with a relative. Online court records showed that Rachel
46:33
Speaker 1: has submitted a plea of not guilty and she's currently
46:36
Speaker 1: locked up without the option of of of posting bond.
46:40
Speaker 1: I can only hope that this case isn't swept under
46:44
Speaker 1: the rug with a light plea and this woman goes
46:48
Speaker 1: on to do the same thing again. Believe me, it happens,
46:52
Speaker 1: and it's a consequence of you know, this is what
46:55
Speaker 1: happens when you have a country where you know, and
46:58
Speaker 1: I don't want to I don't want to uh set
47:01
Speaker 1: anybody on the handle, but when you have a country
47:04
Speaker 1: where you know, it's legal to have abortion just for convenience.
47:09
Speaker 1: Read I'm not talking about rape and incest and all that.
47:12
Speaker 1: I'm just talking about just for birth control. After the fact,
47:15
Speaker 1: birth control reasons, people get desensitized to the value of
47:19
Speaker 1: the life of an infant, and they see something like
47:22
Speaker 1: this and they're like, well, yeah, it's bad, but it's
47:24
Speaker 1: not as bad as if she would have killed one
47:28
Speaker 1: month old or one year old or a ten year old.
47:30
Speaker 1: And you know, I'm sitting there going, yeah, it is me.
47:36
Speaker 1: The thought of that is overwhelming. The only thing we
47:42
Speaker 1: can do now is hope for justice. Nancy Grace Crime
47:48
Speaker 1: Stories signing off, goodbye friend. Did you know about a
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