Latest / Real State / From Policy to Results: Governing Tennessee Effectively, with Sen. Bo Watson

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From Policy to Results: Governing Tennessee Effectively, with Sen. Bo Watson · Real State

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The federal government doesn't have as much influence on the day-to-day lives as people might think,
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but the local government does, and so that's why there really needs to be good alignment between
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what's happening at the state level and what's happening in our in our local governments.
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This is Real State, a podcast from CSG South. Join us as we talk with policymakers and public leaders
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shaping state-level decisions across the South and explore how ideas move from policy to real impact.
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Hello and welcome to Real State. I'm your host, Lindsey Gray. Across the South,
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state leaders are constantly evaluating how to deliver better outcomes for citizens while remaining
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responsible stewards of taxpayer resources. While much attention is often given to the policies
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states adopt, an equally important question is whether those policies ultimately achieve their
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intended goals. In Tennessee, those conversations have included government transparency, education funding,
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higher education governance, government accountability, and the long-term challenges of
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turning legislative action into measurable results. Our guest today is Senator Bo Watson of Tennessee.
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Senator Watson has served in the Tennessee Senate since 2006 and currently serves as chairman of the
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Senate Finance, Ways and Means Committee, and the Senate Rules Committee. Over nearly two decades
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in public service, he has helped shape many of Tennessee's most significant policy and budget
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decisions while providing leadership on issues that affect communities across the volunteer state.
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Senator Watson, thank you for joining us today. Well, Lindsey, thanks for having me. It's great
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to be here. I appreciate the opportunity to talk about state government. Well, you certainly are a
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pro, so I will jump in, Senator. You've had a front row seat to Tennessee's evolution over nearly
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two decades in public office. So looking back, when you first entered the Tennessee Senate in 2006,
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what are some of the biggest challenges you've seen and how state government operates and
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delivers services? Well, initially, you know, when I first got elected, states, one of the biggest
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challenges states had was just the financial side of things, you know, it wasn't, but a couple of
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years after my election that we ran into the 2008, the recession and the financial challenges in
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2010 when Governor Haslam became governor, we had to do a lot of financial reductions all across the
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board. But since then, states, particularly states in the south have been really good about their
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budgeting and their financing and things have been much, much better. It's allowed us to address
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some of the long term challenges that the southern states, particularly Tennessee's had like K-12
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education and perhaps no other state in the country has done more around K-12 education than Tennessee
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has. Absolutely. I know you've been deep in that work over the years and we will certainly jump
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into some policy that you've chaved in and been a part of in recent years, but I'm sure you have
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plenty of stories and lessons learned is so with nearly 20 years in public service, what lessons
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have most influenced the way you've approached public policymaking today? Well, you know,
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every two years we have an election of a general assembly, particularly the House and half the Senate,
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at least that's the way it works here in Tennessee and every four years we have a new governor.
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And one of the biggest lessons that I've learned about the legislative life is the challenge
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of long term planning. Since, you know, the essentially the legislature at least one half the
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legislature, the House turns over every two years, keeping a consistent plan and strategy in place
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can be really, really challenging and difficult. The other thing that I've learned in my 20 years is
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that the people who serve in elected office in Tennessee State government really have the
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the best interests of Tennessee at heart. We all have different ways of getting there, different
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viewpoints. Ultimately, we have to figure out how to work together whether it's rural versus urban
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or Republican versus Democrat, but in state government because we have balanced budgets because we have
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limited time frames of which we're allowed to be in session and make laws, we really, unlike maybe
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our federal friends, we really have to figure out ways to work together in order to get things done.
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And we've been really successful at that in Tennessee over the past 10 or 15 years.
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It's so interesting to watch and to see the differences between the federal and
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federal government, how it works and then how our states work. And there's so many misnomer's out there.
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I tell everybody, the media wants to believe that they don't get along and they're always at each
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other's throats and that's just not the case. They may be fiercely debating on the floor, but
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they do know each other outside of this, each other often and have to get that work done for your state.
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So a lot of people have relationships beyond what you might see beyond the policy.
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So I'd say that, you know, when you're thinking about things that have that have influenced
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governing, influence the way the legislature operates, certainly the rise of social media and
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its impact in the political space where oftentimes members are trying to either avoid saying something
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or get somebody to say something so they can get that extra click or that extra attention
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on social media. I think that has created a little bit more performance politics than maybe
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existed when I first got elected, where individuals are sometimes more interested in the
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gotcha moment than they are in the governing moment. And we're learning to adjust to that.
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Again, states are different from the federal government in that we have limited time frames in
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which to work and we don't have the option of not passing a budget. Now some states can struggle
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like on North Carolina spent probably an extra year trying to get their budget done. But at the end
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of the day, they have to do a budget. They have to operate within certain restraints that don't
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necessarily bond our federal government the same way. That's right. Well, legislators are often
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judged by the bills they pass, but governing doesn't stop when legislation becomes a law as
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chairman of finance, ways and means. You're often evaluating not just policy ideas, but whether
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those ideas actually produce results. So in your experience, what separates legislation that
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creates lasting results from legislation that may look good on paper, but struggles in implementation?
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Well, sometimes you don't know until you start trying to execute some of the ideas or the laws
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that you've passed. I would like to think that everything that we pass in the Tennessee legislature
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has functional purpose to it, but certainly there are some political messaging that we do.
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Ultimately, we try to the best of our ability to measure our legislative activity based on outcomes
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rather than on inputs. What I mean by that is that you can pass legislation that perhaps looks good
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back home and signs people up for something, but the outcome is never really realized. One example
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that might be somewhere in the childcare space where maybe you you pass a piece of legislation that
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looks really good and has a lot of people sign up, but then when you look at the outcomes of it,
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you're not getting the either the educational results that you thought you were going to get or
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even the participation from the community that you were that you thought you were going to get.
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It is a challenge for state governments. We're smaller obviously than our federal partners,
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and we have a little bit harder time on follow up. One of my, I guess, frustrations and desires is that
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we would do a better job about following up on the legislation that we've passed to be sure that
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two or three years later, we are measuring whether something has actually had its intended effect
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or not, but as you know, when it comes to government starting programs or developing ideas,
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once created, they are very difficult to eliminate, even if they're not being successful.
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One way is that legislatures try to deal with that is by putting particular types of
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sunsets onto legislation. For example, you might pass a piece of legislation, say it's going to exist
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for the next five years, and if the legislature doesn't take a farming action, then that piece of
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legislation just goes away. Those kinds of legislation require future legislatures to look at and
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evaluate the program. You know, we started out talking about one of the challenges that we have in
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the legislature is long-term planning and long-term strategy because once important to one legislature,
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two or three years later, might not be important to a future legislature or a future governor.
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And keeping some of these things that take years to affect, for example, when you do K-12
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education reform, you may not know the outcomes of that reform for 12 years until a whole group
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of students have gone through the process. Well, if you are constantly having different reform ideas
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come before the legislature because you've got new people elected, new governors elected,
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if you don't stick to those strategy that was originally started, you never really know whether what
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you did worked or not. We've been fortunate here in Tennessee that we've had some consistency
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amongst legislative objectives and governors objectives over the past 10 to 12 years. We have
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seen some pretty dramatic improvements in our K-12 education program, not to mention the
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introduction of universal school choice, which has been a really big, big thing here in our state.
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And I want to move to some of the policy that you have put forward and has recently passed,
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but before I do that, how should policymakers think about implementation and accountability
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when evaluating whether that policy has truly succeed? Do you have any tips or tricks or things
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that you typically look at when evaluating? You have to try and be objective. Obviously, we live in a
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political world and political worlds do not always consider the facts and data. They often are more
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interested in the story that it tells or the impact that it has on people subjectively. And we talk a
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lot about objective data, but it's difficult sometimes to make decisions about objective. Because once
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you start a program, for example, and the objective data tells you that it's not having the effect or the
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impact that you thought it was going to have, it's incredibly difficult to stop doing that. I mean,
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you've got people whose jobs now may depend on that program. You've got people who are involved in
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the program that, you know, think it's working for them, even though maybe overall it's not working.
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That's really difficult. And then, you know, one legislature that passes something, a future
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legislature has to make the decision as to whether they're going to continue with it or not.
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And that may not fully understand why a previous legislature had put it in place.
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There's no magic answer to your question. I think it does require a certain amount of discipline
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amongst legislative leaders that if we are going to do a program where we're expecting results
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from that program, that we have the courage to either change or eliminate the program when it's
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no longer achieving its objectives. But that's, you know, very, very difficult to do.
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And you've put forward kind of transparency as one of those measurement tools that you've used.
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An example of that philosophy can be found in legislation that you sponsored this year focused
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on education spending transparency. And in 2026, you sponsored the Better Spending Better Schools Act,
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SB 2072. And this legislation was designed to improve transparency and consistency and how
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education spending information is reported and understood across Tennessee. So what problem
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were you trying to solve with the Better Spending Better Schools Act? And why did this issue rise to
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the level of legislative attention for you? Education and health are the two biggest expenditures
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that state government has. And in Tennessee, it's usually education, particularly K-12 education.
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And so taxpayers are paying for all of that. And we need to look for ways to explain how money is
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being used that people who don't swim in the education space every day can understand.
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The bill is intended to say that we're not being transparent. All of the information that
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the bill seeks to provide to the public, it's available, it's publicly available. The problem is,
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you have to have several postgraduate degrees in order to figure out where the data is housed.
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And so what we're hoping to do is create a format where taxpayers of any standing can go and look and see
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how their local government, how their local education agency is spending the tax dollars that
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is provided to them. For example, are the expenditures because of federal dollars? Are they because
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of state dollars? Are they coming from some other source? Simple things like that in a format that the
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the general population can understand as well as creating a public facing platform on the website
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that researchers can easily find information on. You know, we rely on a lot of third party people
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looking at data, generating ideas, coming up with innovations, coming up with new ways of doing
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things and making in the legislative world information as power and providing that information to people
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in a format that they can easily understand and not have to be some advanced academic. I think is good
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for the system. It gives, when the public can easily see the information, it builds trust.
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It also helps the general population look at K-12 education and go
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okay, this is worth the investment or we need to do something different because this isn't paying
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off the way we thought it was going to pay or challenge the local school system as to why they're
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spending money in a certain place. And then finally, we want to build a system that is consistent
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across platforms. So you don't want a local education association in West Tennessee reporting
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data differently than the people in East Tennessee because then researchers and the general public
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have a hard time making comparisons as to what's happening between these two school systems. So
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it's intended to try and bring standardization to the reporting process and then also just
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simplify the reporting process. Now, we will not get this right the first time we do this.
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It will take us probably, you know, you asked me earlier some of the things I've learned. And one of
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the things that I learned is that you rarely get things right the first time you do it. You might get
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at 80% of the way, but what we're going to do is put something out and then we're going to get feedback
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from the public. Some of it will be positive, some of it will be negative and we'll try to figure out
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and learn from that and try and craft my goal is to craft an information delivery system that people
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can actually manipulate, look at, work with, understand, and it's easy and it's much easier to read. And
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it's organized in a way that makes sense to people like you and me who aren't necessarily
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academic statisticians or anything like that. No, I'm not. You nailed that.
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Well, you know, and people, people always, you know, they always, because we spend so much money on
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education, it would make sense that we should try and figure out ways to explain it the best way we
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can to the people who are paying for it. And, you know, one of the things that we get criticized for
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here locally in Tennessee as an example is, you know, we are ranked in, you know, 51st in education
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per people spending. And when you first say that, you're like, oh, that kind of, that kind of stings a
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little bit, right? But then you look and you compare our national assessment of education progress
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against other states and you realize that in my time in the legislature, we have gone from being
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ranked roughly 45th in reading and math performance on the nape to in the top 20 in reading and math
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performance in the United States. So the taxpayer can look and go, well, yeah, but we're actually
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getting a really good deal for the money that we're investing in our education system. And those are
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the types of analysis that I that the bill is trying to make easier for people to understand and
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people to see to say, well, you know what, in Tennessee, they don't spend as much as they do in other
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states, but for what we spend, we actually get a really good result. And that means the reforms that
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we've put in place, the policies that we put in place are having their intended effect.
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Yeah, and that transparency is so important in that just building trust with the general public
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and your constituents, but then also helping to infallarm decisions you all make as those folks,
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those researchers come together and they dive into this and then they start providing that data
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to our legislators. As you mentioned, do you have a lot of third parties that kind of come in and
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provide information for y'all that, you know, where it came from that data is good. You trust that
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data as well. And so the long term effects of that transparency, I imagine, will will pay off.
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So if this legislation is successful, what decisions will policymakers be able to make differently
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because they have this better information? Well, I hope that we will be able to make
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decision of where is the best place to spend our money. And then comparing, you know, financial
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information to results like, you know, like national assessment on education progress or other types
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of standardized testing is the money that we're spending getting the results that we are anticipating.
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And then are we doing some things that's coming to us through federal dollars that just don't fit
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within Tennessee's education system? And then you can communicate with the general public and say,
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look here, we've got the reason we're having to do this is because it's tied to this federal program
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which provides these federal dollars. Now if you want us to quit doing that, we may be happy to do that.
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But understand, we don't we're not going to get these federal dollars for doing it. Or same left,
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same way, a local education agency might go, you know, this is why we're, this is why we're doing this.
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It's tied to these state dollars. If we don't have to do it, but if we're not going to do it,
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we're not going to get these state dollars. So I think it really is going to help with trying to figure
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out, you know, what works, what doesn't work, what kind of things have we done that that have served
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their purpose. You know, one of the things that's really hard for people in government to do is to
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realize that certain ideas, some policies do have life expectancies. They run for a while,
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but the world changes. And you have to be able to adjust and adapt your policy to that. And what
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government is really not good at as we've talked about earlier when it comes to programs, government's
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really not good at recognizing and acknowledging that the world has changed and we need to change with
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it. And so by making some of these stuff more available, making in all areas, not just in education,
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in all, I mean, probably the biggest changing area that we're going to see over the next decade
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is in healthcare. I mean, the way we deliver healthcare today, the, the roles that states play
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in the way we deliver healthcare is going to be dramatically different as artificial intelligence
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and other things. Other technologies start to work their way into the healthcare system.
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We have to make our policies and the things that we're doing adjust to those kind of technological
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changes because the private sector is going to innovate and it's going to change. And government
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has to catch up and kind of stay with it if we're going to have programs that work effectively.
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And you mentioned healthcare a couple episodes ago. We interviewed representative Dan Howell and I
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know he talked about the healthcare transparency law that you both worked on. I believe that you were
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the Senate sponsor of that bill and we did a deep dive on it. So I definitely want to stick with
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education for this conversation and move to the Tennessee Higher Education Commission.
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But that was another effort from you both regarding transparency and to your point about healthcare.
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I know you're going to probably take another bite at that apple next year. But I encourage everybody
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to listen to that episode. They can hear all about that bill. Yeah, Dan's and Dan, I'm sure Dan
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did a great job. He's very well-media trained. He spent years on television. So he's a great interview.
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But as I said earlier, the two biggest expenditures that we have are education and health. And so it
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makes sense that folks like Dan, folks like me, we'd be talking about those two particular things
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because that's where taxpayer spend a lot of their dollars. Absolutely. And you know, you can't talk
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about transparency without talking about accountability. So accountability extends beyond funding
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and into governance itself. This session, you also sponsored legislation SB 2079 involving the
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Tennessee Higher Education Commission and broader questions around governance and oversight in
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higher education. So why is governance structure important when states think about long-term
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outcomes and institutional accountability? One of the things that we do here in Tennessee,
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and I'm sure a lot of other states do, but we do it really, really well is we have a, and I was chairman
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of this committee for a number of years, government operations committee, which has the responsibility
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for reviewing every board commission agency that the state of Tennessee has. And we tend to put
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sunsets as we talked about pieces of legislation. We put specific sunsets on all these different
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sort of oversight organizations in order to force legislatures to re-examine them before they
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just simply renew them. Under the Tennessee Higher Education Commission, we thought that it was,
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it was time to take a fresh look at what they do, take a fresh look at how they're appointed,
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take a fresh look at who appoints them, and take a fresh look at perhaps we need new new faces.
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Again, to address a changing door, the world of higher education today is a lot different than it was
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25 years ago, a lot different than it was even 10 years ago. And we need to constantly challenge
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oversight to not only monitor how well we're doing in the new framework, but also to be sure that
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our governing system is capable of having oversight in the world as it is changed before us, and
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nowhere is that more true than in higher education. And how do you strike the right balance between
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accountability and oversight on one hand while still allowing institutions enough flexibility to
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innovate and meet local needs? I think the accountability is the big piece of that is that once you
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put in place legislative policy, which becomes a law, then you have to allow the local entity,
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or whoever the entity is that's responsible for executing the law, allow them the opportunity to
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execute the laws that's been written, and then hold them accountable to those results.
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Again, that's easy to talk about, everybody talks about it, everybody talks about it.
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It's hard to do because you do have to be willing to say an idea that you had didn't work,
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or the people who are assigned with executing it are not capable of doing it or haven't done it in a
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way that that the legislature or the governor intended, and hold those people accountable. And that's
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really difficult to do in a political system. Again, by having a sunset requirement,
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it sort of forces the oversight, in this case, in the Senate, the government operations committee,
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it forces them to ask those hard questions. Are you doing what the law or what we intended to you to do?
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Are you the right people to be doing what we had intended to do? Are there suggestions and
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recommendations that you would have to help us execute this more clearly? Or is this something that
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simply because it's now being sunset, it needs to go away? Yeah. And Tennessee's had quite the
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reform journey. So you all have implemented a number of significant policy reforms over the past decade.
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So we might have to go back into the rolodex a little bit, particularly in education and
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government accountability. As we've talked about today, you've had a focus. But when Tennessee
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undertakes major reforms, what does success look like beyond simply passing the legislation? What's
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been your experience? Well, it's a little bit subject. I mean, I can do, you can do objective stuff,
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you know, you can say under the education world, you can say, well, we're going to see, you know,
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improvement in reading scores or we're going to see improvement in math scores. We're going to see
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better less retention, third grade retention because third graders are reading better and they're
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moving on to the fourth grade. Or we're going to see fewer students drop out of school in the ninth
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and tenth grade because we've improved our literacy to where, you know, students don't
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already get frustrated and just kind of give up or we've seen where students are taking advantage
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of career readiness rather than everything being focused at students going to college. We create
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an environment where yeah, there's the option for students to go to traditional college, but we've
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also created pathways where students who want to learn some other way in the trades or whatever
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they have, we see students being successful there. We see all those kind of things, but at the end
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of the day, it's a more subjective question of, are we making it better? Are we making it? Are we
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creating more opportunities for teniseons to be successful in whatever way they define success?
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Are we in the education space? I would say, are we creating pathways by which students and their
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families can find the path that is best, best for them? That's why, you know, we've done so much
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reform around charter schools, traditional public schools, magnet schools, academies,
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home schooling, virtual schooling, school choice. I mean, we have all those options because we're
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trying to create paths for parents and students to find the way that works best for them.
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So I would say in the subjective way, are we hearing back from our constituents that they
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value the many options that are created for them in the education space? And are they turning those
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options into career choices, life choices that are making things better for them in Tennessee? And in
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doing so, making things better all across Tennessee. That's a long answer. But it really is a sense of
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you know, it's Tennessee creating great opportunities for teniseons. And I think we are.
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And you just wrote through several large-scale policy reforms that Tennessee has tackled. And
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that's just in the education space. So you all have tackled a lot of reforms and a lot of other
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spaces as well. And some of the things that you mentioned from school choice, to improving literacy
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and math rates among kids we've seen several Southern states take that on recently, particularly
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literacy in the last several years. So looking back, what has Tennessee learned about implementing
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large-scale policy changes that might benefit other states considering similar reforms?
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It's hard. Yeah, buckle up. It really is, it really is hard. I mean, none of us
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like change. We just don't. I mean, you know, it's like we don't like to change the shoes that we're wearing.
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We like the shoes that we're wearing, right? Yeah, we've broken them in. Change is really hard. The other
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thing is, and we talked about this earlier in the podcast, is that change is really hard at the
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legislative level because the legislature changes. And you know, we get elected by a constituency that
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has certain hopes, dreams and visions for the community that we represent. And what do you do when
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you've got these really big reforms that are occurring? And then you start getting people who
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elected who are against all those reforms. And you know, they're having great results,
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but you now see the public kind of pushing back on that. How do you, how do you stay focused on that?
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And that's, you know, when you asked me earlier about one of the challenges, that's the challenge.
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You can, you can ride on a piece of paper. We're going to do X, Y and Z and, and we're going to go
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from this point to this point. The problem is keeping a legislative agenda consistent to get you to
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those two points is really challenging. Again, I said earlier, we've been really lucky in Tennessee
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that we've had a cohesive group of legislators in both the House and the Senate. And we've had
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legislative leadership in the House and the Senate that has aligned itself very well with each
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other and has aligned itself with the two most recent governors. And we've been able to make
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these reforms and we've made them been able to make them stick because we've been consistent in it.
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Other states, you know, if parties are constantly changing, governors are constantly changing,
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it's much more difficult to achieve some of those kind of results.
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And you make a great point because I obviously, I cover 15 states. So I get to see the landscape
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happening. And the uniqueness happening in each state, that is something about Tennessee,
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that stands out is the House, the Senate and the governor seem to be pretty aligned.
31:38
And that is proven to be very helpful for you all. And not all states are we seeing that alignment.
31:46
We might see it from the House and Senate, but maybe not the executive branch or, or even between
31:51
House and Senate sometimes, there's not agreement. So that has really makes a huge difference in a state.
31:58
Well, I don't care if you're in government or you're in the nonprofit sector or if you're in the
32:04
private sector, getting alignment between the different levels is really, really critical. So
32:09
having alignment, of course, between legislative branches and the federal and the executive branch
32:17
in state, that's really important. But also having alignment with our federal partners. And then having
32:22
alignment with our local partners, because ultimately, the workhorses of our system of government
32:31
in the United States, the workhorses are state governments. They are the workhorses.
32:35
And we have to really have close alignment to our partners at the local level, because it is our
32:43
local government who carries out most of the policies that the state puts in place. The federal
32:49
government in reality has very little domestic influence. The Constitution doesn't allow them to
32:56
really do a lot of the things that they do. They only do those things because the states allow
32:59
them to do it, particularly like the education space. You know, a few years ago, I guess about two
33:04
years ago, we embarked on just a conversation in Tennessee about, well, you know, one of
33:09
the decided not to take any federal dollars. What would that look like? Right? What would that mean?
33:14
Now, of course, there was outrage and concern expressed all across the state. But it was somewhat
33:19
of an intellectual exercise to kind of say, you know, because we're doing these things, not because
33:24
we have to, we're doing them because we're choosing to, because the federal government is choosing to
33:28
fund them. What would it look like if we didn't do that? Yeah. And there are a number of areas,
33:33
and there are a number of areas all across state government where the state government does it because
33:38
we're choosing to do it. But the federal government doesn't have as much influence on the day-to-day
33:43
lives as people might think, but the local government does. And so that's why there really needs to be good
33:49
alignment between what's happening at the state level and what's happening in our, in our local
33:53
governments. Absolutely. And to get these major reforms passed, you, that alignment is critical
33:59
in what you're doing. As you mentioned, you know, it could take a decade to get some of that really
34:04
going for you to see the results and to really know if it is working or not. So thank you for your
34:10
work on that because you said it's hard. You got to buckle up and really dig in and, and do the work. So
34:16
that is, is imperative. Senator, you've spent much of our conversation discussing policy, accountability,
34:25
how states measure success. And before we close, I'd like to switch gears and ask for a few quick
34:30
far questions. What's one thing people often misunderstand about state government? Well, we're often
34:35
the forgotten level of government and yet we are the most important piece of government in our system.
34:40
State governments have to do things. We have to execute policies. We have to try and govern.
34:48
It's not optional. And so I think one of the things that people don't realize is how much and how
34:53
critical state government is to their, their daily lives. Yes. You'll have to be effective, right? There's
34:58
no question about it. So, well, I don't know whether we're effective, but you have to be active.
35:04
You don't get to do, you don't get to do continuing resolutions and things like that. You have to make
35:09
decisions. You at Tennessee and in most states, you have to pass a budget. I mean, our constitution
35:15
requires that one bill be passed every year and that's the budget bill. That's the only bill we
35:20
ever really have to do. It is the most important thing that we do, but we don't get the option of not
35:25
doing it. We have to do it. And again, states carry out much of the work that gets done all across
35:33
the United States. It's the state governments that's doing the heavy lifting.
35:36
What's one policy area you think deserves more attention than it's currently receiving?
35:42
That's a good question. I mean, it goes, you know, state, uh, state by state. Infrastructure gets a
35:50
lot of attention and it needs to get a lot of attention. I think probably, uh, for us in Tennessee,
35:56
we need to pay more attention in the childcare space. And I think we're going to be doing that
36:02
over the next couple of years. The federal government has done a lot in that space, but state governments
36:09
haven't done as much. I think because of the financial pressure that the federal government is now
36:14
experiencing and they're now pushing a lot of things back down to the state level where it
36:20
probably should have been in the first place. I think states are going to have to think creatively
36:24
about childcare and how we can, uh, and for a state like Tennessee, how we can conservatively
36:31
be partners with our families, uh, and help, um, because it's getting, uh, incredibly expensive for
36:39
family, particularly our middle-class families, you know, the wealthy can provide, uh, for themselves,
36:46
the poor have any number of programs that the government provides for them, but they're stuck in the
36:50
middle as the hard-working middle-class folks that often are left out. And we're trying to look at some
36:57
ways with the childcare that we can help those families because they're critical to our systems. I'd
37:01
say childcare probably needs more attention. Well, let's meet next year and talk about childcare.
37:05
Well, I got a really good bill this year about, uh, that, that will be that, that, that was passed and
37:11
became law, which, you know, creates a program where, uh, the employer, uh, the state and the employee
37:17
will share in the cost of childcare, which I think is going to be really effective.
37:21
What's the most valuable lesson you've learned during your time in public service?
37:26
Yes.
37:27
Uh, this is hard work. Uh, I mean, and, and I guess the most, um, the most valuable lesson is that,
37:36
that once you pass a law, uh, even a really good idea, it becomes a law. It takes times for it to
37:46
actually get communicated to everyone, uh, and for everyone to start executing what the law
37:53
requires. And so patients is a really important virtue here, uh, making the right decision,
38:00
and then sticking to that decision and having the patients to allow the decision to go into
38:05
effect and get worked out. Mass communication is very challenging. Uh, and so when you, I'm up with
38:12
really good reform ideas, it's going to take a few years for it to have its effect.
38:16
That's a good one. What challenge do you think states across the South will be grappling with
38:21
over the next decade, regardless of geography or political differences?
38:25
It's going to be financial. Look, we've been talking about for decades now, the financial challenges
38:32
that our federal government faces. And, uh, at some point, and I believe we're kind of approaching
38:39
that inflection point, what, that they simply have to make hard decisions. And, you know, regardless
38:45
of what you, one, feels politically, uh, or from a partisan perspective about the current
38:50
administration, they are recognizing the fact that some of the things that the federal government is
38:55
doing is not the job of the federal government is the job of the states. And they're pushing those
39:01
responsibilities down to the states. They're sending some funding with it, but not to the same degree
39:08
that the states might have been used to. And states are going to have to make the hard decisions of,
39:13
are we going to continue to do this or are we not a perfect example for Tennessee? And I, I,
39:18
guess, virtually every state is, you know, we got a lot of COVID money a few years ago that allowed us
39:24
to do a lot of things, but that money has run out. And states are having to decide, do we want to
39:29
continue to pay for this or do we not want to continue to pay for this? Since the public doesn't
39:34
really make a distinction between state or federal government, states are going to have to spend a lot
39:40
of time explaining to people why we have chosen not to do something that they may have, uh, become a
39:45
accustomed to. But I think the biggest challenge for the states in the next decade is going to be
39:51
financially managing some of the things that the federal government simply cannot afford to do
39:56
anymore. And then when you think about the future of Tennessee, what gives you the most optimism?
40:03
Well, it's a great place to live. Yeah. You know, I've never lived anywhere else,
40:09
outside the boundaries of the state of Tennessee. Heck, I've never lived outside of East Tennessee.
40:14
I guess some people might consider that a flaw. You know, look, I think, I think we, the Southern states
40:23
in general are coming into their own. The trick for us and the challenge for them, really optimistic
40:31
about Tennessee. We've just got, you know, we've got a lot of things going for us.
40:34
We've created an environment like we talked about earlier where I think we're creating opportunities
40:41
where people can be successful to the degree that they want to define success. But the challenge is to,
40:47
for us is to absorb all that success without changing who we are as a, as a community. And that's
40:57
difficult. But I think we're trying to manage our way through that as we're experiencing growth
41:03
in, in a lot of different areas. We're trying to manage it in what some would say is the Tennessee way.
41:10
But I'm really, you know, the progress that we have made in education really demonstrates that
41:17
we've got a lot of good days ahead of us. The other thing that I'm really proud about is that
41:26
the Southern states, and I'll say particularly Tennessee, we're really beginning to grow in our own
41:33
confidence in ourselves that we are capable of doing many, many things for so long, you know, the,
41:41
the Midwest was considered to be, you know, the manufacturing area, the rust belt, and nobody else
41:46
could do it. And now we realize, heck, you know, you can go to the South and advance manufacturing and
41:51
automobiles can be done really efficiently and effectively in a, in a state like Tennessee. And
41:56
oh, by the way, they have a really well-educated workforce that's capable of doing on that.
42:01
On the, in the academic world, you know, for a long time, everybody looked at the Northeast,
42:05
and that's where all the, that's where all the brains are. And if you got a problem,
42:08
you need to call somebody from Boston to come in and, and fix your problem for you.
42:13
Well, now a lot of those states are looking at states like Tennessee saying, you know, those guys
42:17
that figured out, you know, heck, they're looking at Mississippi and saying those guys that figured out
42:22
how to advance literacy in one of the more challenging states for literacy. So I think our
42:27
confidence, we're starting to build confidence, which is really important to be successful long
42:32
term is to be confident about what you're doing and the decisions that you're making. And I'm,
42:35
I'm really proud of Tennessee that as a community, we're gaining gaining and confidence. And
42:41
that means that, that we will gain in success. Yeah. We've got a grit like no other in the South,
42:46
don't we? Wait, yeah. Wait. Well, sometimes it serves us well, and sometimes maybe not.
42:52
I tell people, I tell people all the time, you know, that, that are from other parts, either
42:56
out of the other parts of the country or either parts of the world that, you know, if you come,
43:00
particularly East Tennessee, where most of us are Appalachian of some sort, don't tell us that we
43:05
have to do something, you know, he might suggest something to us and we'll do it. But if you tell us
43:09
that we have to do it, then good luck. That's right. When you live in a beautiful part of Tennessee,
43:14
I believe you're in the Chattanooga area. So yeah, it's gorgeous. Well, as we close, I'll end with a
43:20
question. We ask all of our guests. So what is the best piece of professional advice you have
43:26
ever received? And how does it shape the way you approach leadership today? Yeah, it's a great question.
43:31
And I want to say my dad gave it to me. And I would encourage other legislators to listen to my dad.
43:37
And it's probably, you know, my dad was a business man. So it's probably some old business adage
43:42
that he picked up along the way, but it's keep the main thing, the main thing.
43:46
You know, in the, in the legislative world, we will deal with hundreds of bills. And it's easy
43:55
to get distracted on the little things. And sometimes, you know, as Lamar Alexander, as famously said,
44:03
don't be surprised when the little thing doesn't become the big thing. But when you, you know,
44:07
we've spent a lot of time talking about strategy and governance and those kind of things.
44:12
If you're truly committed to improving K-12 education, then you have to stay focused because it is
44:18
hard work. You have to stay focused on that. And in the legislative world, that kind of focus,
44:24
as we've discussed, is really difficult. But in K-12 education, if you think about the main thing,
44:30
what's the main thing? The main thing is not the teachers. The main thing is not the buildings or
44:36
the infrastructure. The main thing is the children that you're trying, or the children that you're
44:42
trying to educate. When you keep your thought on the main thing, then you start to make policy
44:48
decisions that have the proper impact that you wanted to have. And I feel like in many ways,
44:52
we've done that. And then I'm going to give you a bonus that's another one of my dad's great
44:57
things. And that is, when all is said and done, Moore's been said, then done. And I think that's very
45:04
true for legislators to realize is that because there are abundance of things that we will deal with,
45:10
there will be a lot of talk about a lot of things. But again, only a few things will get actually
45:16
done. You want those things that get done to be the things that you're really trying to focus
45:21
on that will lead to your overall success in whatever way you're trying to be successful.
45:25
I love that. I will take those with me. You may hear me say, keep the main thing, the main thing
45:31
of for now on. So I will take your father's advice as well. That's great advice. So thank you
45:37
for sharing that, but stilling that on us today. Senator Watson, thank you for joining us and for
45:41
sharing your perspective on leadership accountability and the important work of turning policy into
45:46
meaningful results for Tennesseeans. We also appreciate your many years of public service and your
45:51
continued commitment to thoughtful governance and responsible stewardship of public resources. I
45:57
also know you serve on the CSG National Executive Committee. So thank you so much for the work that
46:02
you're doing on that committee and for our organization as well. You're welcome. Thank you for having
46:08
me. It's been great. Of course, it's been wonderful. We will meet again on a new policy. And to our
46:14
listeners, thank you for tuning in to Real State for more conversations like this and more about the
46:19
work of CSG South, visit csgsouth.org. I'm Lindsey Gray. Let's keep it real.
46:25
Thank you for joining us today on Real State where we keep it real about what really matters.