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Cubs mailbag: How do they overhaul their pitching program to catch up with the Brewers? · North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Welcome into north side territory foul territory networks cubs podcast
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: i'm sahadev sharma with my partner patrick mooney we are
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: your cubs beat writers over at the athletic patrick the
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: brewers are one win away from a world series victory
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: uh they remain one win away with a with a
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: fun game on whatever night that was tuesday night last
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: night it's hard to keep track of days even though
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: the season is over for us I still don't know
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: what day.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Of the week it is.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: It's been actually three of those four games have been
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: really good.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: This is, this has been, I know.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Sometimes when it looks like it's a dominating series, it
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: doesn't feel like it's a, it's a good series, but
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: I feel like it's, it's been a really entertaining series
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: outside of that one inning really where things fell apart
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: for Tampa Bay. We are going to talk Cubs and,
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: And do a mailbag episode. And unsurprisingly, one of the
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: first questions has to do with the Brewers. Let's get
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: right to it. Nathan Moore asked us, What's the current
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: working theory in and around the Cubs organization for how
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: the Brewers have achieved such a massive edge in player
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: scouting and development?
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: What do you got, Patrick?
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: I think Nathan... nailed it with this question.
• 1:29
  Speaker 4: I think that has been sort of an ongoing conversation
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: within the Cubs organization. I think it's not any one thing.
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: It's certainly not one person. We've seen David Stearns and
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: Craig Council leave. We've seen Willie Damas walk as a
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: free agent, trading Corbin Burns, Freddie Peralta, Josh Hader, Devin Williams.
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: They excel in every area. I think that's just like.
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: The simplest way to put it there's not like one
• 1:59
  Speaker 4: takeaway of oh if the Cubs just made this slight
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: tweak in this one area they get a lot better
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: like the Brewers I was just kind of going over
• 2:07
  Speaker 4: their their roster watching the World Series and it's like
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: you know doing those contract extensions before players make their
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: big league debut uh I mean Andy Ashby was not
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: a first round pick he came out of a junior
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: college he becomes this awesome lefty reliever They did an
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: early deal with him too. He's locked up for multiple seasons.
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: They hit on first round pick position players. That's something
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: the Cubs do well. The Brewers do that plus develop
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: awesome pitchers up and down their organization. You really see
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: it here. It feels like we're not watching it as closely.
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: We're not in the clubhouse covering it the way we
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: would as beat writers. It just feels like they could
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: win another seven-game series after this. Like, it does not
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: seem like they're running on fumes.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: That's so true.
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: Like, things seem pretty lined up and orderly. They haven't
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: been pushed to the brink of elimination.
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: Like, it's really, like, they've left no doubts this October,
• 3:15
  Speaker 4: barring what would be an epic collapse. I mean, that's
• 3:20
  Speaker 4: what we're talking here Wednesday morning. But I think it's, like,
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: Brewers are a great organization now, and I think they'll
• 3:28
  Speaker 4: be really, really good for years and years to come.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the one thing you didn't mention there
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: was International Free Agency.
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: They're standout there.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: They are the model organization, and when you say what
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: is the current working theory, I don't think anyone really
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: knows what makes them so good as far as Is
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: there a secret sauce? Remember when Carter Hawkins was hired
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: and it was like, what's the Cleveland Guardians secret sauce
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: to pitching development? I don't know if there's one thing,
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: but there is an organization across the board that is
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: working in harmony. And that's why losing David Stearns or
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: Craig Council isn't some killer.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: It's not.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: They have a really strong organization from top to bottom.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: There are a lot of people working together and believing
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: in core philosophies that are leading to success. They identify
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: players that they like. Ashby's a great example of it.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: These aren't guys that are obvious first-round picks. These aren't
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: guys that anyone... They just do a really good job
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: of identifying characteristics that they love, whether it be pitching
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: or position players, and and then getting the most out
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: of that talent. I remember I'm, I'm almost positive Ashby
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: made his debut against the Cubs, his major league debut
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: against the Cubs. And I'm pretty sure I was there
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: and he didn't have a great game. I'm going, I
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: haven't looked this up, but I've been watching him during
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: the playoffs and just thinking like, even when he didn't
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: have that good game, I remember thinking, I was like,
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: I still feel like that guy's going to be good.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: Like that's a lefty with really good stuff. Uh, Maybe
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: it was early in his career. Maybe it wasn't his debut.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: But I just remember like thinking like, this guy's like
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: upper 90s from the left side. Like this guy, like
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: he may not have been perfect today, but that guy's
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: going to be a pain in the Cubs ass. And
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: so it's not surprising to see him like dominate like that.
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: So his debut was June 30th, 2021 at American Family Field.
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: The Brewers won.
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: 15-7, and I believe that was the series that sort
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: of put the nail in the coffin for the Cubs.
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: That was when Jed Hoyer decided to sell at that deadline,
• 6:04
  Speaker 4: and Ashby was an opener who allowed seven runs for earned.
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: And obviously the Brewers came back to win that one
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: rather handily.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: That was the Arrieta start that basically... led to the,
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: if I'm remembering correctly, led to the sell-off.
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Arrieta did start the game.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they blew a 7-0 lead. Okay, so I do
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: remember Ashby struggling. That's why that sticks out in my memory. Okay,
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: so not a great memory for Cubs fans. Sorry, but
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's just one example. And obviously, you named
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: all the pitchers that they traded away. Just imagine the
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: Cubs trading Cade Horton.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: Ben Brown, Justin Steele.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: I know they didn't have them, but I'm just saying like,
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: those are probably like the three best pitchers in their
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: organization over the past couple of years. If they traded
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: them all, like people would be like, what, how do
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: you backfill that?
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: What are you doing? Like, how do you get pitchers?
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: And, and the, the reality is like, it's not like
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: the brewers have nailed those trades. They, those trades have
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: been okay to like kind of bad at times, like
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: as far as the return, like just, Nothing like blowing
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: you away with those returns. They've been fine, but it's
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: remarkable how they just keep reloading and they still have
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: a top farm system. They're not going anywhere. Really well
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: run organization. I don't know if you can say what's
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: the current working theory. Yes, the Cubs are trying to
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: figure out how do you gain edge, but I don't
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: think you can just steal what other teams are doing.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: You have to be really good at what you do.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Try and figure out how to develop pitching. We're going
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: to talk about that. We got plenty of topics here.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: regarding pitching and pitching development. Um, here's Tyler Dershow, regular, uh,
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: emailer or not emailer, but you know, messenger, uh, checking
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: in with how devoid of pitching this franchise is, uh,
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: at currently in all aspects of system and development and
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: the core being as old as it is, are they
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: forced to go all in this season or is that
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: an exaggeration? I, it feels like a little bit of
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: an exaggeration.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: Um, I'll say this. Okay.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: So yes, you got like a position player core kind
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: of locked up.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: Uh, and I'd say old or maybe.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: Like at least that you can confidently say like, this
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: is like the second half.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: Of their career.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: It's like Dansby and Bregman. Um, you know, it, Pete
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: is entering his, his peak. He's not even really there
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: in theory, age wise. Uh, and then Nico's right there
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: in the middle of it. Bush is entering it. Um,
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: do you consider Miguel Amaya part of the score? I
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: don't know, but he's probably entering it. Uh, those are
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: the position players that I'd point to. Uh, and then
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: you have to build around them with with pitching and
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: there's a, there is some pitching, but they're all hurt
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: right now. And like a lot of question marks. So
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: we don't really know what the pitching situation is. And
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: they're obviously going to focus on that. And we're going
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: to talk more about that. I don't think you need
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: to go all in. I think you have to have
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: a very good off season. I don't think it's about
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: like just spending, spending, spending. I think you have to
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: be smart about the moves you make. I do think
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: you need to be aggressive with at least one financial move,
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: like spend, like, Get a no-doubt starter in free agency,
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: but also be aggressive with trades.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: Shake things up. Try and figure out different ways.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: I don't want to just say the Brewers and Rays,
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: you have to copy what they're doing because they're in
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: the World Series. But you look at them, they they
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: make a lot of trades. They make a lot of
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: shrewd moves. It's not, we just spent so much talking
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: time talking about the brewers. They make those trades and
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: they work out a lot of times. They, they, uh,
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: and they may not be like trade, like they trade, um, uh,
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: why am I blanking on who they just straight Freddie Peralta?
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: And they don't get like dominant. They didn't get like
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: dominant starters back. Like Brandon Sprout didn't work out for them. Um,
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: but they get innings from these guys. They, and they
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: get guys that can help out and maybe they help
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: out down the road. Uh, Brandon Woodruff, the return was
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: DL hall and Joey Ortiz. I believe you get innings from.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: DL hall and Joey Ortiz. Yeah.
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: What is it? What did I say? Brandon Woodruff? Sorry.
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 10:37
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: Corbin Burns. Not. Yeah.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: Uh, So, like, you need to be willing to do
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: that and get a lot of, you know, get guys
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: in return. And maybe that's how you stock up a
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: bullpen and a rotation. There's different ways to build this
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: pitching staff up. And it's not going to be just
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: not in 2027 isn't going to be the system in
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: all likelihood. So you got to make some trades, try
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: and help the team out and make some signings. Jed
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: Hoyer doesn't believe in all-in, so he doesn't like that.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: Your thoughts, Patrick?
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: I had the exact same thought. From ownership on down,
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: this organization hates the term all-in. I get what Tyler
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: is saying. When you have a barren pitching program and
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: you do have a couple– expensive players getting older, you're
• 11:36
  Speaker 4: wondering how many more, you know, four or five win
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: or seasons you have in Swanson and Bregman. But I
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: still think this team will probably be in that like
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: 85 win band of like, if things go bad, you know,
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: they're winning 83. If things go good, maybe they get
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: close to 90. I mean, they have a ton of
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: work to do this off season. I know we've talked
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: about guys who could become free agents and the Nico
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: extension sort of took some of that, pushed some of
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: that a little bit back and Pete's development.
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: But otherwise, you know, is this a.
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: Great opportunity to just dramatically reshape the team?
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: Is it going to be extremely difficult to when you
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: could have, you know, a dozen established major league players.
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: Walking out the door?
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: Of course.
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: And so I think that's why it's going to be
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: a really interesting offseason and why I think they're not
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: going to sit on the sidelines in November before the lockout.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: We're going to talk more about pitching. Let's take a
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: quick break and get to that.
• 12:54
  Speaker 6: Okay, Kratzy, here we are again, man. How many times
• 12:57
  Speaker 6: do we have to tell people to get the best
• 12:59
  Speaker 6: tickets in the house? Where do we got to go?
• 13:01
  Speaker 6: We got to go to SeatGeek. It's been worth it
• 13:04
  Speaker 6: so many times, so many years. The green light will
• 13:06
  Speaker 6: let you know when it is time to go and
• 13:09
  Speaker 6: the best seats available. The red will let you know
• 13:11
  Speaker 6: if it's not the best. Kratzy, tell them how easy
• 13:13
  Speaker 6: it is.
• 13:14
  Speaker 5: Todd, I know it's easy, but I'm looking for the
• 13:17
  Speaker 5: deals because that's what I do. Even so much, like
• 13:21
  Speaker 5: we're getting such a good deal. I want you to
• 13:22
  Speaker 5: come across the river. and we'll go to a Sixers
• 13:25
  Speaker 5: game together. I don't know where to sit in the stadium,
• 13:28
  Speaker 5: but it'll let me know that it's a perfect view
• 13:30
  Speaker 5: because I'm not a big NBA fan, but I gotta
• 13:33
  Speaker 5: go see the Sixers play with LeBron and the boys.
• 13:36
  Speaker 6: And of course I have a code for you all.
• 13:37
  Speaker 6: You can use code TERRITORY10 for 10% off your next
• 13:41
  Speaker 6: set of tickets at SeatGeek. That's 10% of all tickets
• 13:45
  Speaker 6: with promo code TERRITORY10. Make sure you click the link
• 13:48
  Speaker 6: in the description to download the app and have the
• 13:50
  Speaker 6: code automatically added to your account so you can use
• 13:53
  Speaker 6: it later.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: All right, Patrick.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: Uh, next question here from blue line theology. Some of
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: the 27 pitching can be improved through transactions.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: What can the.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: Cubs do this off season to build a system that
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: annually promotes pitching prospects to the big league, especially the bullpen? Uh,
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: before we answer that, I just want to check the
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: other question because I think it's similar. Um, This is
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: Joe Maddon's glasses. I know the Cubs aren't going to
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: get better at devoted at devoting pitching overnight. I should
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: have read that again. I I'm assuming that's developing pitching overnight,
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: but what are some concrete steps they can take this
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: off season to improve in that area?
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: So this is going to be, this is a big, uh,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: this is a big topic this off season. Um, they're
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: going to need to look, we, we understand we've talked
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: a lot about acquiring pitching and, uh, you know, however,
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: like that was the last question and it's going to
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: be the focus of the off season. That's not the
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: only thing that Cubs are doing. The Cubs are continuing
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: to revamp their pitching development process. This is a process, um,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: you know, that, that they felt like they were on
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: the right track with when they hired Breslow and he
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: started revamping things and, and they had some things go
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: going right. Whether it was, uh, Edward Alzelie taking like
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: a huge step and finally becoming a legitimate weapon at
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: the major league level, Justin Steele, taking some steps, uh,
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: brief glimpses of brilliance from, uh, Keegan Thompson, uh, Javier
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: Assad going from like this unknown prospect to really quality pitcher.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: They had some success stories. There were some, uh, you know.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: They finally, after years of not seeing anyone come up
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: from the minors and help them, they had some guys
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: help them at the major league level. Um, And they
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: also had things going right in the minors where it
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: felt like, oh, hey, we have some guys popping. We
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: have some guys developing velocity. That stagnated for a couple years.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: You know, I don't like just like doing a one-to-one
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: thing saying like Craig Breslow left and then it fell apart.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: I don't know if that's fair to do. I will
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: say this.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: They felt like they kind of went adrift with their
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: philosophy and their that was reestablished over the past year.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: And it's a lot of like.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: They need coaches to be on the same page as
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: like directors and, and someone have putting a plan in
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: place and trusting that that is going to be executed
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: by the coaches and executed properly.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: And, and there.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: Are, you know, pitching coordinators and everybody needs to be
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: on the same page and think a big thing that
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: they wanted to do over this past year was reestablish
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: that velocity.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: Gains are really important.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: We like the I think one person put it to
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: me is like we have a North Star of like
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: this needs to be our North Star. And this is
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: just constant improvement. How do we maximize these talents? It
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: is not about getting to the major leagues. It's about
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: getting to the major leagues and being great there. And
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: they I think they felt like there were steps taken there.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: Last year.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: Uh, the highest levels, I think what we saw at
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: the major league level and then a triple a, uh,
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: wasn't good enough. Uh, I think they're making changes. I
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: think they're continuing to evolve. It's hard to give them
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: credit when we haven't seen it yet. Uh, I think
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: there was a, what was, uh, this was, uh, what
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: are some concrete steps they can take in the off season? Look, I,
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: I think they're excited about, uh, the, uh, this past class,
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: this past draft class, I talked to some people. Do
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: you think this can look a lot better by next
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: year at this time? And they are confident that yes,
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: with the draft class that they have and with the
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: steps they took, they believe, and look, I need.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: Like, this is what I've heard.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: From multiple people up to double a double a and
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: below they did.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: They did make steps. The velocity jumps were there.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: Like there were some numbers that were encouraging and, they
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: felt like there were positive steps made. They weren't there
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: ready for them at AAA and the major league was
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: just like constant, like churning. And there was a lot
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: going on. I think it's a difficult thing to change overnight,
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: but I do think we can see results quickly because
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: we did under Breslau, like for those players that I mentioned,
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: they weren't really on our radars fully until it's like, well,
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: we've made these changes with this guy. We did this
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: with this guy. Oh, like this guy's healthy. And, and
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: doing this now. So it's possible that we see some stuff. Uh,
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: I do think they're excited about this draft class and there,
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: there's a lot more stuff in this draft class, uh,
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: that could, uh, pop this year. And, and if things
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: go right, like if this is working, if this is right,
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: if they make the right choices, if the developments that they're,
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: if the, you know, theories or whatever you want to
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: call them, uh, that they're, that they're going to be following, um,
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: are those the right moves, then we should see some
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: results this year.
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: I'm staring at this graphic here and focusing on the
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: phrasing of what can the Cubs do this offseason and
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: thinking that it is a bad offseason to be trying
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: to overhaul your.
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: Entire pitching program.
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: There's a world in which the Cubs do not see
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: or communicate with Justin Steele, Cade Horton, or Ben Brown
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: for like three months. They will not have access to
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: the Cubs Mesa facility.
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: I think there's going to be a lot, and it's
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: not just a Cubs issue.
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: It's going to be organizations across the game, you know,
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: showing up reporting to Arizona and Florida for spring training,
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: like having no idea who's picked up a baseball, who's
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: been working out, who's in good shape, who, whatever sort
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: of cubby occurrence might happen, shoveling snow or windsurfing. Who
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: knows during the offseason? There's going to be a lot
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: of unknowns. It does not bode well. I guess some
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: of the more recent draft picks, they will be more
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: of an ability to go face-to-face, to communicate, to work with.
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: players who are not on the 40 man roster. And
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: I'd imagine that would be, that would place an even
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: bigger emphasis, uh, on.
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: That pool of players.
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: But, uh, you know, Edward Cabrera, like when you want
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: a full off season to try and get him into
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: a good place, like that's not going to happen. It's
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: going to be a lot of kind of sending out
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: the information, uh, giving sort of your closing messages, uh,
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: before the CBA expires December 1st, and then.
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: Just waiting to see what happens after the lockout.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you touched on it there.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: The one thing is that they will be able to
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: work with those minor leaguers. So those guys can take steps.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: You hope that the big leaguers... I think over the next...
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: They have probably already started this process, and over the
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: next month, they will... they will be putting plans in place.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: This is what we're doing. Um, this is what we
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: need you to do. Here's your day to day plan.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: And month by month, here's how we'd like to see
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: a progression with a plan for like, you know, it's
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: hard to do because you don't, you also don't know
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: when they're going to start. They have gone through this recently,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: similar staff as far as the major league staff, as
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: far as pitching goes with Tommy, how to be leading
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: the way. Um, They had to– like they were rebuilding
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: the pitching infrastructure 19 into 20 and heading into a pandemic.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: And then not long after that, another– a lockout.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: So they did make steps during that time. It's not–
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying that because I've done it once. And
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: it's not like they created this pitching development machine.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: I don't want to give them all the credit in
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: the world.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: It was better than it is now. and it happened
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: quicker than I expected it to, or at least we
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: started to see results quicker than I realized. And you
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: can point to Boston now with Breslau and I'm sure
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: they're like, I don't pay attention to every organization, but
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: I pay attention to them because Breslau went over there.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: So I was curious that happened quickly too, but what
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: kind of talent did he have to work with? I,
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: you know, all these factors that I'm not fully aware
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: of because I don't cover that team on a day-to-day basis.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: Uh, we'll see. It's going to be hard.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: Like they, they are making changes and they're trying to
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: make this and we'll, we'll be writing about this and
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: we'll have a, have a deeper story about what is
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: going on and how, like the plans that, uh, they have.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: But it's, um, it's not a simple thing and it's
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: not something they're ignoring. I guess that's, that's the best
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: thing you can say about this. It's not like they're
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: ignoring it and saying like all is well, uh, you
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: just don't understand how well things are going. Um, There
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: are some things that they believe are good and headed
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: in the right direction, but it's not good enough. And
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: the results are, we saw it this past year, they
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: were struggling to call upon people from the minors with
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: all those injuries. It wasn't an easy situation, but also
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: you would have liked to have had a couple more
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: names to call upon in the minor leagues. Okay, this one,
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: we've talked so much about pitching, let's do a quick
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: offense analysis. question from cub neck uh with all the
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: focus on adding pitching do the cubs run the risk
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: of the offense becoming a weakness but patrick i wanted
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: to like just quickly uh do like not be not
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: to be like obsessed with numbers here uh the cubs
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: we're just going to look at numbers real quickly right
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: the cubs by war position player group 37.7 war the
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: next best were the dodgers at 26.9 So let's assume
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: that the Cubs lose Seiya Suzuki in half and get
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: nothing in return, get zero in return. That's about like
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: 7.5 war. They still would have led all of baseball
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: position player war. This isn't a one-to-one thing. You can't
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: really do the add-subtract war.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: It doesn't work.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: It's not as simple as that, but I'm just going to,
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: just for the sake of being quick here, they still
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: lead all of baseball by like five war. Like if
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: they lose, say, in half their war. So my point
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: would be like, A, they're not going to do that.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: That's not their plan. They're hoping that– I don't know
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: if Matt Shaw will be a part of this. I
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: don't know if Pedro Ramirez will be a part of this.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: Like we talked about, there could be trades. And I
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: wouldn't be shocked if they're moving someone like that. to
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: get different types of players or pitching in particular. But
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: one of them for sure I feel like will be
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: a part of this, the answer there. And I think
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: they're going to add smaller pieces that may not be like,
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: you know, like maybe Michael Conforto-like and a few of
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: those guys to kind of build out like platoons in
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: the corners or one guy starting regularly or giving a
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: shot to start regularly.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: I think we could see stuff like that.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: And you hope you can like be a pretty high
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: level of war, uh, position player side. But the whole
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: point is like, you need to improve the pitching and,
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: and like we've heard, uh, you know, them talk about this.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: There are different ways to add up the wins. The
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: Cubs had six war from their pitching. So if you lose,
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: let's say eight war from position players, uh, you need
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: to like, you better gain eight or from pitching six
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: war is unacceptable for a playoff team.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: So like just strictly going off that, uh, I like, and.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: And answering the question, I don't think the offense, unless
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: Alex Bregman and Pete grow Armstrong, aren't good. Like it's
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: not going to be a, a weakness. It may not
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: be the best offense in baseball. Maybe there's a chance
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: you worry that it's not a top 10 offense anymore,
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: but like an outright weakness, like a bottom 10 offense, uh,
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: I struggle to see that when you have two guys
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: like that and then you hope for improvement from Nico
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: Horner bouncing back. You hope Michael Bush finds his power stroke.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: You hope that there's others that can help you. But
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: you have an MVP and a guy that played like
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: an MVP in the second half and actually is going
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: to get down ballot votes in Alex Bregman. As long
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: as they don't fall off too far, being a weakness
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: I think is going to be hard for me to say.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: Being elite....
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: I don't know if they can do that again. It
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: is going to be interesting to see how they come
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: up with it. Ultimately, I think you need a little
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: bit more balance between offense and position players and pitching,
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: and you can have a similarly good, maybe a better
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: and more well-rounded team. But I understand the concern about offense.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: You're losing a lot if you don't bring back Seah
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: and Happ, which they're not going to bring both of
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: them back, for sure.
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I've been thinking about Seah and, like, we'll...
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: continue to gather more information and, you know, after the
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: world series ends and as officials show up for the
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: GM meetings, we can kind of get a better sense
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: of what his market might look like. But all of
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: our preliminary indications like are not all that encouraging. If
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: you're hoping to see say, uh, come back next year, just,
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: you know, that's just.
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: Kind of the way it is right now. And that,
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: that doesn't mean it's impossible that.
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: He, that there's like zero chance he could come back,
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: but just sort of like setting expectations, end of the season,
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: heading into the off season.
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: That's just where they are.
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: I think, I think there is a risk just in
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: the sense of like, it's almost inevitably going.
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: To go down.
• 28:17
  Speaker 4: If you were the number one offense, we saw just
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: that awful lull of the 10 game losing streak. We
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: saw the offense did not show up in San Diego.
• 28:29
  Speaker 4: And like, if they're, they're not able to piece together
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: the pitching again. And the offense takes a step back.
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: Like that's what, that's when, you know, the season goes sideways. And,
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: and I do think, I think it was your question.
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: Jed said like the ratio won't be a hundred to
• 28:48
  Speaker 4: zero in terms of where they put their resources vis-a-vis
• 28:51
  Speaker 4: pitching and hitting. And I do wonder if like, there
• 28:56
  Speaker 4: is this pivot somewhere in there of like, they, see
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: their options on.
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: The pitching side.
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: Um, they sort of redistribute the resources and maybe there's
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: a way in which they add off.
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: What is it? A Carter saying a win is a
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: win is a win.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That's what I was thinking when I was talking.
• 29:17
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: They're not, not very dogmatic in that regard.
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: So I do think there's a possibility that, you know,
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: we're setting the expectations here and then maybe, you know,
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: they go out into the market and find that, okay,
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: it might make sense to, allocate differently. But look, unless
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: your offense just crushes it in the postseason, you're going
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: to feel like your offense is a weakness. I mean,
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: you know how it goes. Hitting is hard. It comes
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: in waves. And unless your hitters do it at the
• 29:50
  Speaker 4: exact opportune times as a fan, you're going to walk
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: away being like, Like, man, the offense needs a ton.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: Of work, you know? Yeah, yeah.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: And I think ultimately what I take away from that
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: in the playoffs is you need a lot of pitching.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: You just need pitching after pitching after pitching.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: I watch the Brewers and, you know, they are able
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: to send those guys out, Uribe, Ashby, to McGill, and
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: they're able to do it in a way like, okay,
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: just lean on them. You know, get like four, five,
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: six innings if you can, and then lean on them. Uh, and,
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: and it's, it's a formula that works. You don't need
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: like eight guys in the bullpen to dominate in the
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: post season. Um, you need a deeper bullpen to get
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: through the season, but it's a different game come the
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: post season. If you have like three or four dominant
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: arms in the bullpen that you really trust or that
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: are locked in and healthy for the post season, like that,
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: that matters so much. Uh, pitching I think is, is
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: like the way, like you want a good offense. You
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: want a deep offense. You want a talented offense. The
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: Cubs have that and have the potential to continue to
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: have that next season. But you need to build up
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: the pitching. You need a little bit more depth there.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: And it's just, I mean, we knew this, we talked
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: about it going into the post season, like the Cubs
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: could make a run, but can they get through this
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: many series?
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: Like with that pitching, like we just.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: Didn't like, yeah, we felt like they were super talented
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: and that they had a chance to go make some noise.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: I just like, we, it was just like, a lot
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: of stuff has to go right for them to like
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: make a rail run to like make it to the
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: Royal series. Like how can they do that with this pitching?
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: So that's why I just think you have to improve
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: the pitching. And I think, and just to wrap up
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: on your point about like, maybe they pivot, there are
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: ways like it, you don't have to like you. And
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying like a say or a Rosarena level bat,
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: but there are going to be bats will come for
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: a one or two year deal. And like, and it's
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: like 10 ish, 12 ish annually. Like that's not crazy
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: for the Cubs to spend right now. It one move
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: like that, along with some trades and then spending big
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: on one pitcher.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: Like that's, I could see that. And that's an impact.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: That's a bat that could help if you get the
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: right guy. It's about, I, Chad says this all front office.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: People say this, it's about being right, making, making the
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: right choices, finding the right guys. They found the right
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: guys on the bench this year, over the course of
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: the season, they found a good bench. They didn't nail the,
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: the bullpen picks. Like, so it's like, so some picks
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: look great. Some don't, they did not have an ideal
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: off season in the sense, like the first, especially, well,
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: I guess the way that Bregman ended it, it washes
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: away a lot of that. But in the first half
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: we were talking about like, wow, what a bad off season,
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: like all their moves, Maton, Bregman and Cabrera really, really struggled.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: So you just need to, they just need to, they
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: need bounce backs from some of these pitchers like Cabrera
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: and they need, and they need to be right with
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: their moves. There's going to be a lot of moves
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: because they have holes to fill. So we'll see how
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: that goes exactly. We'll be back with more. There may
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: be enough to do another to answer more of your questions.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: We'll see.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: I'll go back and look and see if we have
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: enough there. But there'll definitely be another episode this week.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening. Thanks so much for watching.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: This is Northside Territory. Make sure to rate, review, subscribe.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: Subscribe to the YouTube channel and subscribe to The Athletic
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: where Patrick and I are on top of all things Cubs.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening and watching, everyone.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: Take care.