Latest / Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood / 48 - The 1788 Doctor's Riots

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48 - The 1788 Doctor's Riots · Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood

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Speaker 6: Very everybody, and welcome to Hooded.
1:20
Speaker 1: What now the history podcast? That's not your history class
1:23
Speaker 1: with me, your host Kertie Charlwood, History Harlotte and reader
1:27
Speaker 1: of books.
1:28
Speaker 3: Overall our new home. It's Spreaker Prime. That's right. We
1:32
Speaker 3: moved over. We I moved over. It's just me.
1:37
Speaker 1: I keep talking as if I have some kind of team.
1:39
Speaker 1: It's like the Royal we you know what I mean.
1:42
Speaker 1: But I just I don't have a team. It's just me,
1:46
Speaker 1: all of my own sub It would be handy to
1:48
Speaker 1: have a team, because oh my goodness, I'm so busy.
1:50
Speaker 3: Like I'm so busy my brain is about to melt
1:53
Speaker 3: out of my ears and drip like olumpic custard. So
1:56
Speaker 3: that's not fun.
1:58
Speaker 1: So like, over the last month or so, I've had
2:00
Speaker 1: hosting services and partners and platforms and whatever like reach
2:05
Speaker 1: out to me and be like, come join us and get.
2:08
Speaker 3: This special, super awesome thing.
2:10
Speaker 1: And then I would ask, you know, well, what actually
2:14
Speaker 1: are you offering me? Like how does this differ to
2:17
Speaker 1: what I'm on? How is this going to benefit me?
2:18
Speaker 3: More. It just didn't make sense to me, Like why would.
2:21
Speaker 1: I move if you're not going to be any better
2:24
Speaker 1: than the place I'm already on. And then I got
2:27
Speaker 1: a message from Speaker Speaker Prime, and I keep trying
2:30
Speaker 1: to say.
2:31
Speaker 3: Streaker, and I know it's bad, but I'm doing my
2:34
Speaker 3: best to not say it. But if I do, love up. Sorry.
2:37
Speaker 1: But when these guys contacted me and we're having a chat,
2:40
Speaker 1: and it was like.
2:41
Speaker 3: Well, let's call, we'll talk through things.
2:43
Speaker 1: And they were probably the most transparent of like everybody,
2:49
Speaker 1: Like they explained exactly what they were doing, exactly what
2:52
Speaker 1: they were offering, exactly.
2:53
Speaker 3: What I was supposed to do.
2:56
Speaker 1: The entire switchover even so smooth. It was like the
3:00
Speaker 1: least hassle. The only time there was an issue was
3:04
Speaker 1: when I caused it, which you know, is fairly good.
3:08
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry to the people that had to deal
3:10
Speaker 1: with me. But yeah, it was good. It was good,
3:13
Speaker 1: and I'm really really happy where I am. It's actually
3:15
Speaker 1: working out better of for me in so many different ways.
3:18
Speaker 1: Like I cannot recommend this enough.
3:21
Speaker 3: And I know you're.
3:21
Speaker 1: Probably thinking, ah bah bah bah bah, she's talking nonsense
3:24
Speaker 1: because she's moved to them but seriously, everything is easier.
3:30
Speaker 1: Everything regarding the episodes is actually clearer. It's easier for
3:34
Speaker 1: me to do. I have to like go and like
3:36
Speaker 1: retrofit stuff, go back and fix things and do stuff there.
3:40
Speaker 1: But I had to listen to like my old stuff,
3:45
Speaker 1: so I had to go back to old episodes and
3:48
Speaker 1: listen to myself.
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Speaker 3: I'm so sorry.
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Speaker 1: This is why I tell everybody not to listen to
3:53
Speaker 1: the old stuff, because it's not I mean, the content
3:57
Speaker 1: is good, like the stuff that's coming out is good
3:59
Speaker 1: the fact, right, it's just the presentation which is lacking
4:06
Speaker 1: because there are so many weird like pauses and weird
4:10
Speaker 1: edits I've done, which is me going, oh well, I'll
4:14
Speaker 1: take out the silences. But I just want to sound
4:16
Speaker 1: natural and obviously like I haven't quite found my voice
4:19
Speaker 1: and how I'm going to tell stories, because I want
4:22
Speaker 1: it to still sound like me, but I want it
4:24
Speaker 1: to actually be coherent and for you to understand it.
4:28
Speaker 1: And I know that sometimes my accent can sort of
4:31
Speaker 1: weave in and out between sort of Irish and Scottish and.
4:34
Speaker 3: Some weird no man's land in between.
4:36
Speaker 1: The two, and that can be a little bit peculiar
4:40
Speaker 1: and difficult for some people.
4:43
Speaker 3: See what something that I'd like to re record, and I.
4:45
Speaker 1: Might even do it as a lie because I think
4:47
Speaker 1: that'll be quite fun if people haven't heard it. And
4:50
Speaker 1: that's the shark Arm Murder, because I listened to that.
4:55
Speaker 1: I remember even listening to it afterwards, like not long
4:58
Speaker 1: after I'd put it up, and I'm thinking, what the
5:01
Speaker 1: fuck is wrong with me? Because all I'm doing is
5:04
Speaker 1: talking incredibly fast, Like I actually had.
5:08
Speaker 3: Someone there with me that day and I was telling
5:11
Speaker 3: them it.
5:12
Speaker 1: I was trying to be like natural and be able
5:14
Speaker 1: to explain this toff person, and I was trying to
5:15
Speaker 1: work and see if that would work.
5:18
Speaker 3: And clearly that.
5:19
Speaker 1: Is not the case, because I sound like someone physically
5:23
Speaker 1: sped me up. Like it sounds fake because I'm talking
5:27
Speaker 1: a higher way to do it, I'm doing it really fast,
5:29
Speaker 1: so it's it's not great. And so like there was
5:33
Speaker 1: some stuff that I'd like to just redo, and then
5:36
Speaker 1: there were some stories like when I'm trying to put
5:38
Speaker 1: stuff together, I have a list of things to do,
5:41
Speaker 1: but there's some stuff that I really want to save
5:43
Speaker 1: and do is like alive when I start doing the
5:46
Speaker 1: live tour, which I think is going to be autumn
5:51
Speaker 1: this year. Actually, once I get stuff hashed out, just
5:55
Speaker 1: a wee small one, just UK Ireland, like that's kind
6:01
Speaker 1: of the delio right now, maybe a little bit of
6:03
Speaker 1: somewhere else in mainland Europe.
6:05
Speaker 3: I fits if there's.
6:07
Speaker 1: You know, demand for it, if somebody wants to come
6:10
Speaker 1: see me in person, because you know you want me,
6:12
Speaker 1: I'll go there.
6:13
Speaker 3: That's just how it works. So there's stuff that I'm like, oh,
6:16
Speaker 3: that's so good.
6:17
Speaker 1: I love I want to tell people about it because
6:19
Speaker 1: I am so impatient, Like I don't have patience quite
6:22
Speaker 1: a lot of the time, because I just want to
6:24
Speaker 1: constantly do stuff and share stuff. But there's a lot
6:26
Speaker 1: of work that has to go into it before that
6:29
Speaker 1: is an option. And there are some stories that I
6:32
Speaker 1: just keep thinking, oh fuck, that'd be a really good
6:34
Speaker 1: live and.
6:36
Speaker 3: So it's pushed to the side away a bit.
6:38
Speaker 1: And then I've got stuff which is related to the
6:40
Speaker 1: book that I'm currently writing, and I'm like, well, I
6:42
Speaker 1: should probably wait till i'm promoting the book to actually
6:46
Speaker 1: do that, and it's a whole thing, and I'm and
6:50
Speaker 1: I'm consistently busy. I mean, who needs sleep's for the week?
6:53
Speaker 1: Right I'm kidding, sleep, This is not your mental health matters,
6:58
Speaker 1: and sleep deprivation is a torture method. I just want
7:02
Speaker 1: to make that clear, so you know, get your rest.
7:06
Speaker 1: But anyway, I know what you're thinking, you're thinking, what
7:08
Speaker 1: your jibber chabber in fact me, in fact you I will.
7:12
Speaker 1: But first we've got to get our source on. Our
7:17
Speaker 1: sources are American Resurrection and the seventeen eighty eight New
7:20
Speaker 1: York Doctors Riot by Caroline DaCosta and Francesca Miller, The
7:26
Speaker 1: Great Rights of New York by Joe Tyler, Snatching Bodies
7:31
Speaker 1: by Scott Nelson, The Going New York City Riot that
7:35
Speaker 1: shaped American Medicine by Best love Joy, And of course
7:39
Speaker 1: we have our old favorites, History dot com and Smithsonian
7:42
Speaker 1: dot com.
7:44
Speaker 7: Are you sitting comfortably good? Then let's begin. Can you
7:49
Speaker 7: imagine if I did the entire podcast with this voice?
7:53
Speaker 7: Is it soothing or is it creepy as fuck? I
7:57
Speaker 7: actually had someone complain the other day because I repeat
8:02
Speaker 7: phrases from one episode to another, and I'm like, yeah,
8:08
Speaker 7: it's kind of how it works. It's you know, how
8:11
Speaker 7: I open it and how I lead on to the
8:13
Speaker 7: next section. It's just a way for the listeners to
8:15
Speaker 7: know what's coming next, especially if you've been with me
8:19
Speaker 7: for a while, like some of you have been with
8:21
Speaker 7: me for the whole hog.
8:22
Speaker 1: Yes, some of you have been with me since like
8:24
Speaker 1: the eleventh episode or something, and you have been listening
8:28
Speaker 1: for younks. Then I don't really see why this person
8:33
Speaker 1: is an issue, like you only really notice it. I
8:36
Speaker 1: think if you binch, that's that's not a me problem.
8:41
Speaker 1: That is very much a you problem. Because if you know,
8:44
Speaker 1: if your issue is like hearing my voice say things,
8:48
Speaker 1: then maybe just don't listen to me.
8:51
Speaker 3: I feel like it's just a simple solution for everybody.
8:55
Speaker 3: That being said, if you don't want to rate in
8:56
Speaker 3: review five stars on.
8:57
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, it would be very helpful for me on
9:00
Speaker 1: the business end. I mean it's helped me get this far,
9:04
Speaker 1: and honestly, and.
9:06
Speaker 3: Can you see so many nice things.
9:09
Speaker 1: Everyone's like, well, it's not for stroke, but you go,
9:11
Speaker 1: yeah it is, Yeah it is. I mean it helped
9:12
Speaker 1: me business wise. But I do like to hear the
9:15
Speaker 1: nice things you say because it makes me feel good
9:17
Speaker 1: and we shouldn't be ashamed to accept praise.
9:22
Speaker 3: But that's not a story for another day. But anyway
9:25
Speaker 3: to the.
9:25
Speaker 1: Story, eighteenth century America seventeen eighty eight, we are what
9:31
Speaker 1: five years after the war Revolutionary War, War of Independence,
9:36
Speaker 1: I forget what it's called. And also I not work
9:38
Speaker 1: with dates most of the time. And you're probably thinking
9:42
Speaker 1: you were social scientists who specializes in history, but you're
9:45
Speaker 1: not super great on dates.
9:47
Speaker 3: I know, I know, it's it's a burden and a curse.
9:50
Speaker 3: But so America, as we know it is the equivalent
9:53
Speaker 3: of a newborn baby. And because old.
9:55
Speaker 1: Habits die hard, it had lots of customs and traditions
9:59
Speaker 1: and leaves which sort of trickled down.
10:02
Speaker 3: From its you know, previous ruler Britain.
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Speaker 1: And because of this, resurrectionists and then like physicians, biosmosis
10:11
Speaker 1: were not thought of too well back in the day.
10:15
Speaker 1: During this time, countries were you know, pretty fucking religious,
10:20
Speaker 1: to be honest with you. And you can see this
10:22
Speaker 1: running through like the everyday lives of you know, people
10:24
Speaker 1: in general. And one of the weird things that was
10:26
Speaker 1: passed on was the belief that dissecting the body, like
10:31
Speaker 1: doing anything to the body after death would basically make
10:34
Speaker 1: their bodies mangled on judgment day, like they were worried
10:38
Speaker 1: they would get to the pearly gates and their bodies
10:40
Speaker 1: would all be like flibbery flobbery, broken and.
10:43
Speaker 3: Cracked and just no good.
10:46
Speaker 1: And another way theory that some of them had was
10:48
Speaker 1: that by cutting the body and sort of dissecting it
10:51
Speaker 1: and doing stuff like that, that you were actually letting
10:55
Speaker 1: the soul escape. It wasn't being preserved, so it wouldn't
10:58
Speaker 1: be able to like pass over properly. Also, in addition, furthermore,
11:04
Speaker 1: there is that sort of again comes from.
11:06
Speaker 3: The whole religious aspect of it, the whole cloud of shame.
11:11
Speaker 1: The idea of your naked body deceased or not being
11:15
Speaker 1: like moved around and looked at, touched and brooded, poked, pinched,
11:24
Speaker 1: and who knows what other kind of stuff they might
11:26
Speaker 1: do to it, Like the idea is just very Oh,
11:30
Speaker 1: I don't want anybody to see me naked.
11:32
Speaker 3: It's not gonna matter if you're dead, mate. Because here's
11:35
Speaker 3: the thing.
11:35
Speaker 1: Most people don't actually want to look at dead bodies,
11:39
Speaker 1: especially naked ones. And the people that really do want
11:42
Speaker 1: to look at that, they need therapy in some kind
11:45
Speaker 1: of hobby that keeps them away from the general public,
11:48
Speaker 1: like an interest in ornithology.
11:50
Speaker 3: Go out and look at some birds, all right, that's fun.
11:54
Speaker 1: So back in the day, we didn't really know too
11:56
Speaker 1: much about the human body, especially the inside parts. To
12:00
Speaker 1: this day, we still don't seem to know too much
12:02
Speaker 1: about women's parts. But that's neither here in her there.
12:05
Speaker 1: But back in the day especially, they didn't have a
12:07
Speaker 1: fucking clue. So they had to learn. And how do
12:10
Speaker 1: you learn by studying bodies? So physicians, doctors, surgeons, the
12:17
Speaker 1: whole shabang, they would have to study bodies, and in
12:21
Speaker 1: order to do so, they would actually need bodies to study.
12:25
Speaker 1: So you've got a country that doesn't want anybody touching
12:29
Speaker 1: their dead bodies, and you've got an entire profession that
12:33
Speaker 1: absolutely require touching dead bodies.
12:38
Speaker 3: Clearly, this is a less than.
12:40
Speaker 1: Ideal situation to be in. And you've got these guys.
12:44
Speaker 1: They really need fucking bodies, they need to get their
12:47
Speaker 1: hands on them. And generally, as I mentioned, I think
12:52
Speaker 1: in the body Statures supposed body Snatchels barking Hair episode,
12:58
Speaker 1: there were absolutely zero bodies available for dissection, not morally,
13:07
Speaker 1: not ethically, I mean, the whole concept of ethics hadn't
13:11
Speaker 1: really been thought at that point. But morally, ethically, and
13:15
Speaker 1: most importantly legally, there was no avenue. There was no option, nothing, none,
13:24
Speaker 1: Unlike Britain, which did have one faintly legal supply route,
13:30
Speaker 1: and that supply came straight from the hangman's noess, the
13:34
Speaker 1: only bodies that could actually be dissected were those of criminals,
13:38
Speaker 1: but you know, you do need to have a decent
13:40
Speaker 1: amount of criminals. America just didn't have that option. However,
13:47
Speaker 1: they did have an alternative group of people that they
13:50
Speaker 1: could that it was perfectly acceptable to cut up and
13:55
Speaker 1: dissect and do with as they will enslaved people, that's right,
14:00
Speaker 1: slaves and of course any other non white minorities. So
14:05
Speaker 1: that was a thing you could do. It was absolutely
14:08
Speaker 1: dandy if you wanted to dissect.
14:10
Speaker 3: Slaves, maybe a Native American or two.
14:14
Speaker 8: And then general society would just turn a blind eye
14:19
Speaker 8: to this happening to the bodies of you know, Irish
14:23
Speaker 8: and German immigrants of the time too.
14:26
Speaker 1: So they've got this very small, quite unreliable.
14:30
Speaker 3: Pull from which to choose from.
14:32
Speaker 1: So they've already got a lack of options. Considering the
14:36
Speaker 1: complete lack of cadavers, many doctors felt they had absolutely
14:40
Speaker 1: no other option.
14:41
Speaker 3: But to turn to the resurrectionists, or.
14:44
Speaker 1: More accurately in this case, to become resurrectionists themselves. Okay,
14:51
Speaker 1: resurrectionist is just a really polite way of saying grave
14:55
Speaker 1: robber and body snatcher.
14:58
Speaker 3: And they were such a massive.
14:59
Speaker 1: Problem in the eighteenth and nineteenth century that people started
15:03
Speaker 1: guarding graves because obviously the fresher the body, the better,
15:09
Speaker 1: Like it was such an issue that families would either
15:12
Speaker 1: guard the graves themselves or pay someone to do it
15:16
Speaker 1: for you know, just long enough for they felt that
15:17
Speaker 1: the body wouldn't be worth nicking, which is fine during
15:22
Speaker 1: like spring and summer, but once the colder weather hits
15:26
Speaker 1: in its winter, like, the bodies are going to be
15:28
Speaker 1: preserved longer, and it's going to be easier to steal them,
15:33
Speaker 1: Like if you can get through the ground, you're getting
15:35
Speaker 1: the body.
15:37
Speaker 3: And so, because of the relationship with.
15:38
Speaker 1: The resurrectionists and the fact they were actually physically cutting
15:42
Speaker 1: up corpses, being a doctor or a physician in this
15:47
Speaker 1: time period was seen as kind.
15:49
Speaker 9: Of offensive and sacrilegious and just kind of shitty, like
15:54
Speaker 9: it wasn't respectable, like it was basically barbaric, unlike today
16:00
Speaker 9: where being a doctor or a surgeon really puts you
16:04
Speaker 9: in like high esteem, at least upper middle class, you
16:08
Speaker 9: know what I mean. And in seventeen eighty eight, because
16:12
Speaker 9: the general public had this distrust and disdain for the
16:17
Speaker 9: entire medical profession, the students at Columbia College weren't exactly
16:23
Speaker 9: held in a high regard. And at this time you
16:27
Speaker 9: didn't actually have to graduate from a professional medical school
16:31
Speaker 9: in order to become a practicing doctor, like you didn't
16:35
Speaker 9: actually need that. In Columbia College was the only medical
16:40
Speaker 9: school in New York City, but it wasn't the only
16:43
Speaker 9: place that you could study medicine. Naturally, those who could
16:46
Speaker 9: afford to would attend private, not for credit classes at
16:51
Speaker 9: the New York Hospital, taught by none other than Connecticut
16:55
Speaker 9: born Dr Richard Bailey.
16:58
Speaker 3: Bailey himself had studied.
16:59
Speaker 1: In London under the incredibly famous.
17:02
Speaker 3: Scottish surgeon John Hunter. Of course he was Scottish.
17:06
Speaker 1: All the best ones are Scottish, which is why he
17:09
Speaker 1: was one of the popular people to study under. And
17:12
Speaker 1: part of his classes, which was a necessity, was anatomical dissection,
17:17
Speaker 1: so cutting up cadavers, but again hard to come by.
17:25
Speaker 1: They just didn't have enough bodies to go around This
17:28
Speaker 1: led to some students grabbing a shovel and taking matters
17:31
Speaker 1: into their own hands. Will others didn't actually want to
17:35
Speaker 1: get their hands dirty outsourced the work to professional grave robbers.
17:42
Speaker 3: Luckily enough for the medical students.
17:44
Speaker 1: There were two graveyards relatively close to Columbia College, one
17:49
Speaker 1: of which was the Pauper Cemetery, where like just the
17:51
Speaker 1: poor people get dumped, and across the street was the
17:54
Speaker 1: cemetery for enslaved people. And like, at this time one
17:58
Speaker 1: fifth of New York, one fifth of the population was
18:01
Speaker 1: black and the majority of which were This is going
18:06
Speaker 1: to shock you all, we're enslaved people.
18:10
Speaker 3: What do you know. I know, I'm surprised to so.
18:14
Speaker 1: Because of their low social standing and absolutely ballocks rules
18:18
Speaker 1: at the time, slaves were only allowed to be buried
18:22
Speaker 1: outside the city limits.
18:24
Speaker 3: They weren't allowed inside.
18:26
Speaker 1: So effectively they're really really poor, the destitute and enslaved people.
18:32
Speaker 1: They were all buried out there. I mean, at least
18:35
Speaker 1: the paupers for the most part, got one person to
18:39
Speaker 1: a grave, whereas in the other graveyard they were piling
18:43
Speaker 1: in a couple of bodies to a grave at time. So,
18:45
Speaker 1: because of its proximity to the college and the fact
18:49
Speaker 1: that it was full, and because it was filled with
18:52
Speaker 1: the people that society deemed less than if they deemed.
18:56
Speaker 3: Them as people at all.
18:58
Speaker 1: That doctors and medical stud and other resurrectionists were like,
19:02
Speaker 1: it's fine, this is a completely acceptable thing to do.
19:06
Speaker 1: Absolu fuckingately fuck off. Anyway, when it came to body snatching,
19:13
Speaker 1: the idea was the fresher the better, because at that
19:17
Speaker 1: point they didn't have any kind of way to preserve
19:20
Speaker 1: an entire body, like there just wasn't an option for them,
19:24
Speaker 1: so again, they really needed them fresh before decomposition sets in. Luckily,
19:30
Speaker 1: for the medical students, by the time winter rolls around,
19:34
Speaker 1: nicking the corpses is pretty easy because as long as
19:38
Speaker 1: you're good at digging through cold, icy ground, because as
19:41
Speaker 1: we know, colder temperatures keeps things preserved longer, which means
19:45
Speaker 1: a slower way of decomposition. That being said, the winter
19:51
Speaker 1: of seventeen eighty seven leading into seventeen eighty eight, the
19:56
Speaker 1: medical students start really kicking the arse out of it
19:58
Speaker 1: and they start plundering a fuck ton more like they're
20:03
Speaker 1: stealing so many bodies from the Black Graveyard that they're
20:07
Speaker 1: being noticed at one point, a group of freedmen catch
20:12
Speaker 1: them stealing bodies from the Black Cemetery and they're like,
20:17
Speaker 1: fuck this for a game of soldiers. This isn't on who.
20:21
Speaker 1: On the third of September seventeen eighty eight, petition the
20:24
Speaker 1: Common Council to basically do something about it. So they
20:28
Speaker 1: complain that young gentlemen in this city who call themselves
20:32
Speaker 1: students of the physic under cover of night, in the
20:36
Speaker 1: most wanton sallies of excess di cup bodies of our
20:39
Speaker 1: deceased friends and relatives of your petitioners carrying them away
20:43
Speaker 1: without respect for age or sex. What's interesting is they're
20:48
Speaker 1: not actually asking the Council to stop the body snatching
20:52
Speaker 1: and the grave robin. All they're doing is asking that
20:55
Speaker 1: it's done with like some level of respect and dignity.
21:00
Speaker 1: What ethical and righteous action does the council do? Do
21:05
Speaker 1: they station people at the graveyards to stop the robbing
21:08
Speaker 1: from happening.
21:10
Speaker 3: Do they organize the way.
21:11
Speaker 1: In which the bodies can be exhumed with dignity? Do
21:15
Speaker 1: they give the physicians and the doctors are we slap
21:17
Speaker 1: on the wrist? No, they do, sweet fuck all, not
21:21
Speaker 1: a drop nothing. They just ignore it, because what does
21:25
Speaker 1: it matter if they're dissecting the bodies of the poor
21:29
Speaker 1: and the disenfranchised.
21:31
Speaker 3: That's m mm hmm mm hmm.
21:37
Speaker 1: It's not until eighteen days later, when it's reported that
21:40
Speaker 1: a body of a white woman is stolen from the
21:42
Speaker 1: Trinity churchyard that any sort of grumblings in the general
21:47
Speaker 1: populace begin. There are a few variations on how the
21:53
Speaker 1: riots actually started, most of which revolve around a group
21:58
Speaker 1: of boys playing at the New New York City Hospital.
22:02
Speaker 1: In one version, one of the boys is dared to
22:05
Speaker 1: climb up a ladder and look in the window, and
22:08
Speaker 1: lis being boys and having to prove that he is
22:11
Speaker 1: not afraid, He climbs the ladder, pokes his head in
22:16
Speaker 1: the open window of the dissection room, and a surgeon
22:19
Speaker 1: just waves a severed arm adam. In another version, the
22:24
Speaker 1: boys are playing outside and they literally see a severed
22:28
Speaker 1: arm just hanging out the window. In the most popular version,
22:33
Speaker 1: the group of young boys they're playing outside the New
22:35
Speaker 1: York Hospital. The surgeon's inside, the windows are open and
22:41
Speaker 1: he can hear them playing, and he's just getting pissed off,
22:44
Speaker 1: and he goes, fuck this for a game of soldiers.
22:48
Speaker 1: I'm gonna annoy them because they've annoyed me, And so
22:52
Speaker 1: he picks up a severed arm. He waves the arm
22:54
Speaker 1: hand and all at the boys and yells at them,
22:59
Speaker 1: saying that it belongs to one of their mothers. And
23:02
Speaker 1: like in another area, in another time, this could have
23:06
Speaker 1: just been like a your mamma kind a joke, and
23:09
Speaker 1: where the surgeon thought this was just like a funny
23:12
Speaker 1: thing to do or whatever. One of the boys had
23:15
Speaker 1: actually lost his mother recently, and so he is incredibly
23:21
Speaker 1: upset because he is convinced. This young boy believes that
23:25
Speaker 1: this surgeon has just waved the mutilated corpse of his
23:29
Speaker 1: mother at him. So this kid, he is sobbing and bawling.
23:33
Speaker 1: He's really fucking upset, and he legs it home. He
23:37
Speaker 1: runs all the way back to his dad. The boy
23:39
Speaker 1: gets home and he is clearly distraught, and through sobs,
23:44
Speaker 1: the young boy tells his father that the doctor waved
23:47
Speaker 1: his dead mother's arm at him. So the dad grabs
23:51
Speaker 1: a shovel and fucking legs it down to his late
23:54
Speaker 1: wife's grave and starts digging the exume the coffin and
23:59
Speaker 1: in say they find sweet fuck all his wife's body.
24:04
Speaker 1: As he suspected his late wife's body is missing. It's
24:10
Speaker 1: fucking missing. So he is past stately fucking livid. But
24:17
Speaker 1: he wasn't the only one who was mad. Most New
24:19
Speaker 1: Yorkers were not super into having you know, the graves
24:23
Speaker 1: and bodies of their loved ones desecrated, decimated, and dissected.
24:29
Speaker 1: This dude is so mad. This widower was out for blood.
24:33
Speaker 1: He wanted revenge, and he proposed that they stormed the
24:38
Speaker 1: actual hospital. Luckily for him, there were more than enough
24:42
Speaker 1: volunteers who were just sick and tired of having you know,
24:45
Speaker 1: bodies of their loved ones stolen, and soon enough, hundreds
24:50
Speaker 1: of people were marching towards the hospital. When they get
24:54
Speaker 1: to the hospital, a lot of the doctors and physicians
24:57
Speaker 1: and anatomists, they fucking panic. Quite a lot of the
25:02
Speaker 1: physicians freak out and try to flee, generally on foot.
25:07
Speaker 1: One guy is so scared that he literally climbs inside
25:12
Speaker 1: a chimney, which is, I don't need to tell you,
25:15
Speaker 1: is not a good idea. Don't climb inside chimneys. No,
25:20
Speaker 1: the mob breaks into and occupies the hospital. So the
25:25
Speaker 1: mob occupying the hospital, and they just start breaking shit.
25:30
Speaker 1: They are ransacking rooms, they're smashing specimen jars. And this
25:36
Speaker 1: is even before they get the proper anatomy room. Because
25:41
Speaker 1: when they reach the anatomy room, that is when the
25:44
Speaker 1: mob mentality really starts to bubble over, because this is
25:49
Speaker 1: where the shit hits the fan, because when they enter,
25:53
Speaker 1: because when they get into that room and they see
25:56
Speaker 1: what's in there, they're so angry and repulsed and revulsed
26:02
Speaker 1: and just.
26:03
Speaker 3: All of it, all of the ick.
26:06
Speaker 1: Because in this room, in this room, there were three bodies,
26:10
Speaker 1: two that were sort of mid dissection and one that
26:13
Speaker 1: was boiling in a kettle. Because there was both a
26:17
Speaker 1: female and a male body being dissected. Everything was on show.
26:23
Speaker 1: And this especially coming face to face with corpses pinned
26:28
Speaker 1: and pool the genitalia, really really did not sit well
26:33
Speaker 1: for these guys. Most of the doctors and medical students
26:37
Speaker 1: they had already fled. They had fucked it off. However,
26:41
Speaker 1: some had stayed, the purpose of which was to protect
26:44
Speaker 1: like the pathological and anatomical specimens, like it was a
26:49
Speaker 1: really really valuable collection at the time. They tried to
26:52
Speaker 1: protect them. They did not succeed because with everything else
26:57
Speaker 1: that they had seen and everything else that was going
26:59
Speaker 1: on this. This mob were fucking rabid. They were dragging
27:06
Speaker 1: specimens out into the street and setting them on fire.
27:10
Speaker 1: Dr Richard Bailey and his assistant protochet student right.
27:17
Speaker 3: Post, that is his name.
27:20
Speaker 1: His name is right Post w rght. That kind of write,
27:25
Speaker 1: not as in write a letter or doing the right thing.
27:30
Speaker 1: So they had stayed to protect.
27:31
Speaker 3: All the stuff.
27:32
Speaker 1: And the mob was obviously very mad at the people
27:35
Speaker 1: who were in charge of this whole thing, which would
27:38
Speaker 1: be Bailey and who they would have seen as his
27:40
Speaker 1: second in command, which is Post. So the mob were
27:43
Speaker 1: almost baying for blood at this point, very very close
27:47
Speaker 1: to attacking, and they were in quite a bit of danger.
27:52
Speaker 1: So Bailey in Post, they were in what you might call,
27:56
Speaker 1: you know, mortal peril. And if it was for the
28:00
Speaker 1: arrival of the New York Mayor and sheriff, both the surgeon,
28:05
Speaker 1: both the surgeon, both the surgeon and his protege could
28:09
Speaker 1: have been toasted.
28:11
Speaker 3: So to make sure that they were not added to
28:14
Speaker 3: the literal pore, Mayor James Dwayne ordered the old doctors, physicians, surgeons,
28:20
Speaker 3: medical students.
28:22
Speaker 1: All be escorted to the jail for their own protection,
28:26
Speaker 1: like they had to get locked up because it was
28:29
Speaker 1: the only safe space for them. So like he probably thought, yeah,
28:33
Speaker 1: let's put them in the prison for their own protection,
28:36
Speaker 1: you know, keep them there overnight. It's really secure, and
28:39
Speaker 1: by morning the mob won't be paying for blood anymore.
28:42
Speaker 1: They'll have calmed down, they've had their way bits, they'll
28:45
Speaker 1: be chilling out. Needless to say, that did not quite
28:49
Speaker 1: go to plan, because instead of the rage, you know,
28:53
Speaker 1: dwindling down, dyeing out, the crowds dispersing. Instead of that,
29:00
Speaker 1: instead of blowing over, the mob's fury was burning brighter
29:03
Speaker 1: than ever.
29:04
Speaker 3: By the next morning, this mob.
29:07
Speaker 1: Starts running around New York City looking for doctors, physicians,
29:12
Speaker 1: medical students, anyone that they deem to be guilty, either
29:17
Speaker 1: by their own actions or by association of the mutilation
29:21
Speaker 1: of the corpses of the people of New York City.
29:26
Speaker 1: Literally hundreds of people descend on Columbia College, and as
29:34
Speaker 1: they surround the building their numbers grow, their mass gets massive.
29:40
Speaker 1: There are thousands of people, thousands of really fucking angry people.
29:47
Speaker 1: Their blood is boiling and they are out for blood.
29:52
Speaker 1: The longer the crowd waits, the angrier they become. And
29:58
Speaker 1: who shows up none other than former student of Columbia College,
30:04
Speaker 1: Alexander Hamilton.
30:07
Speaker 10: Alexander Hamilton, his name was Alexander Hamilton. There's a million
30:14
Speaker 10: things he hasn't done, like stop this mob. Stop this mob.
30:20
Speaker 1: So he's there on the steps outside this college and
30:26
Speaker 1: he is begging the crowd to just disperse, to just
30:30
Speaker 1: go home, to not destroy the building. He's like, this
30:34
Speaker 1: is a place for learning, Please don't tear it to
30:36
Speaker 1: the fucking ground, because that's just not cool. And paraphrasing obviously,
30:41
Speaker 1: but you know, you get the gist. And even Broadway's
30:44
Speaker 1: favorite rapper could.
30:45
Speaker 3: Not get this crowd to chill the fuck out. They
30:49
Speaker 3: end up pushing past him, shoving him out the way,
30:53
Speaker 3: and making their way in anyway.
30:56
Speaker 1: So they burst through the doors and they start fucking
30:59
Speaker 1: Scooby doing the place out. They are running around and
31:02
Speaker 1: they are searching for bodies. They are convinced that they
31:06
Speaker 1: are going to be like a fuck ton of bodies
31:09
Speaker 1: in various states of decay and dismemberment, just sort of
31:13
Speaker 1: lying around the place. And they're like bursting into rooms
31:17
Speaker 1: they're searching, like the Atomical Theater, the Chapel Museum, the library,
31:25
Speaker 1: and they even go into the student's bedroom, because they are.
31:28
Speaker 3: Desperate to find something, some sign.
31:32
Speaker 1: Of the crime that they believe to be committed, well
31:35
Speaker 1: more like the crime they actually know was committed. But
31:37
Speaker 1: unluckily for them and luckily for all those fucking students
31:40
Speaker 1: who who were clever enough to actually remove any and
31:45
Speaker 1: all of the bodies from the building the previous night.
31:49
Speaker 1: Upon finding absolutely zero human remains in the facility, they
31:54
Speaker 1: decide they're going to search all the doctors' homes. So
31:57
Speaker 1: they go back out on the street and they're effectively
32:00
Speaker 1: rioting again. They are going into they're ransacking all of
32:05
Speaker 1: these physicians' houses like they are digging through shit.
32:09
Speaker 3: They are looking for.
32:09
Speaker 1: Specimens, bodies, anything that closely resembles what could be a
32:14
Speaker 1: human corpse or appendage. After finding absolutely zilch Diddley squat,
32:22
Speaker 1: they turn around and they head straight for the jail.
32:27
Speaker 1: This angry mob marches right down. So this angry mob
32:32
Speaker 1: is marching right down to the jail. So this angry
32:36
Speaker 1: mob marches right down Broadway and to the jail itself,
32:41
Speaker 1: where a bunch of quite important politicians, including Mayor Dwain
32:46
Speaker 1: and the Governor of New York George Clinton, try to
32:51
Speaker 1: convince the crowd to just go to leave them alone.
32:55
Speaker 3: And not do shit.
32:57
Speaker 1: Are desperately trying to make the crowd calm the fuck
33:02
Speaker 1: down and bugger offs. Now, I'm sure you can tell
33:13
Speaker 1: that with the previous interactions that we've had with this
33:16
Speaker 1: particular group of people, that.
33:18
Speaker 3: That that is probably not going to be on the cards.
33:21
Speaker 3: The mob straight up refuses to go, and kids bigger
33:26
Speaker 3: to There's.
33:26
Speaker 1: Roughly five thousand of them, and this crowd starts picking
33:31
Speaker 1: up random shit.
33:33
Speaker 11: They've got rocks, they've got bricks. They literally tear apart
33:38
Speaker 11: the gallows. The gallows, the actual structure from which you
33:43
Speaker 11: hang someone. They tore that apart.
33:46
Speaker 1: They rip a fucked on a wood off of that,
33:49
Speaker 1: bits of bricks, bits of stone, stuff that stuck together,
33:52
Speaker 1: anything they can get their hands on, and they just.
33:55
Speaker 3: Start lugging it at them. They start attacking the jail.
34:00
Speaker 1: They're throwing rocks, fucking whacking people with big fucking hunks
34:05
Speaker 1: of wood, and they're like making demands and shouting shit
34:09
Speaker 1: like bring out your doctors, we want the doctors ag
34:14
Speaker 1: and boom.
34:14
Speaker 3: And other shit. This is a full scale riot.
34:19
Speaker 12: Windows are being smashed, Projectiles are coming in from all angles.
34:24
Speaker 12: Inside the jail medical students are acting like this is
34:27
Speaker 12: a game of deadly dodgeball.
34:30
Speaker 3: They've got bricks and rocks coming at them and they're
34:32
Speaker 3: picking them up and.
34:32
Speaker 1: Fucking lugging them back, like defending themselves. They are climbing
34:38
Speaker 1: over broken glass from the windows. They're trying to escape,
34:41
Speaker 1: they're trying to fight back. It's it's not looking good
34:44
Speaker 1: for them. One of the rioters actually makes it inside,
34:49
Speaker 1: but once he gets.
34:49
Speaker 3: Through the broken window, a card just fucking kills them.
34:53
Speaker 1: He's like, nope, naturally, this did not improve the mood
34:58
Speaker 1: of the rest of the rioters. It kind of, you know,
35:01
Speaker 1: made them worse, because of course it does, because this
35:05
Speaker 1: situation is just getting worse and fucking worse. The governor
35:08
Speaker 1: calls in the militiamen, right, so, yeah, the militia had
35:12
Speaker 1: been called in, but.
35:13
Speaker 3: They were ordered not to fire.
35:15
Speaker 1: They were told just to kind of be an ominous presence,
35:18
Speaker 1: more like a warning, because you know, prevention is always
35:21
Speaker 1: better than cure. See, that was fine up until John Jay,
35:25
Speaker 1: the Secretary of Foreign Affairs, fucked in the head with
35:28
Speaker 1: a rock. And then the Revolutionary War hero General Baron
35:33
Speaker 1: Vaughan Steuben got woloved with a brick, and because you know,
35:38
Speaker 1: politicians and heroes are getting fucking smacked and whacked, the
35:42
Speaker 1: militia were absolutely like, fuck this for a game of
35:45
Speaker 1: soldiers and just started firing upon the crowd. The militia
35:48
Speaker 1: men's muskets were ready to go, so they opened fire
35:53
Speaker 1: and then just more chaos enceres shooting, fighting, bludgeoning, chucking,
35:59
Speaker 1: probably lots of physical brutality, resulting in at least three
36:04
Speaker 1: rioters and three militia men losing their lives, but the
36:08
Speaker 1: death toll was supposed to have reached twenty people because
36:12
Speaker 1: a few of their mob were mortally wounded during the
36:14
Speaker 1: riots and they didn't die till a couple days later,
36:18
Speaker 1: and over the next few days, you know, it just
36:20
Speaker 1: kind of calms down. This was due to a couple
36:25
Speaker 1: of factors, one of which being that the armed militia
36:29
Speaker 1: were actively patrolling the streets, the second being that people
36:33
Speaker 1: of the city. The other being that people of the
36:36
Speaker 1: city were going around and inspecting and protecting the graves
36:41
Speaker 1: of their loved ones. You had some families taking it
36:45
Speaker 1: in turns to go and inspect the graves of their
36:48
Speaker 1: nearest and dearest, and some fellas decided to come together
36:53
Speaker 1: and become dead guard men. So they were like this
36:57
Speaker 1: armed group who took it.
36:58
Speaker 3: Upon themselves to protect the cemeteries.
37:02
Speaker 1: And while this was going on, the New York newspapers
37:05
Speaker 1: completely stopped running ads for doctors, medical classes, anything sort
37:10
Speaker 1: of medical related.
37:11
Speaker 3: They were just like, we're just not going to put
37:13
Speaker 3: that in. No advertisements for them. They just the best
37:18
Speaker 3: not to. And with all this going on, a lot
37:20
Speaker 3: of the.
37:21
Speaker 1: Big wig physicians of the city had to publish these
37:24
Speaker 1: notices saying that they had never robbed any graveyard in
37:28
Speaker 1: the city and of course never asked anyone else to
37:32
Speaker 1: perform such a heinous act.
37:35
Speaker 3: And that's the thing, isn't it.
37:36
Speaker 1: It's correct on a technicality because because both Potter's Field,
37:41
Speaker 1: which was the Paupers Graveyard, and what was known as
37:44
Speaker 1: the Negroes Burial.
37:45
Speaker 3: Ground, they were outside, they were outside the city limits.
37:49
Speaker 1: They were established officially outside the cities. So yeah, they
37:55
Speaker 1: were correct and truthful on a fucking technicality. Or were
38:00
Speaker 1: attempted against the medical students, but nothing ever stuck. And
38:05
Speaker 1: then a grand jury investigates the riot, but there is literally.
38:09
Speaker 3: No record of anyone being.
38:11
Speaker 1: Convicted as a result of this, because there's a because
38:18
Speaker 1: there's a grand jury that investigates the riot, but nobody
38:22
Speaker 1: gets convicted, not a one. And even though none of
38:27
Speaker 1: the students who are the physicians are charged. Like the
38:31
Speaker 1: complete disdain and disrespect for doctors in New York.
38:36
Speaker 13: Well, it lingered for a good way while you know,
38:40
Speaker 13: years in fact, from the very next year, these anatomy
38:45
Speaker 13: acts start being passed.
38:47
Speaker 1: Now they're also known as bone bills, which I think
38:50
Speaker 1: is a much cooler name, and I think that's how
38:52
Speaker 1: we should refer to them. These bone bills are passed
38:54
Speaker 1: to ensure that there was a legal supply of corpses
38:58
Speaker 1: to the medical profession.
39:00
Speaker 3: No more digging up dead bodies for doctors. I mean,
39:04
Speaker 3: that's what they hoped for anyway.
39:07
Speaker 14: In seventeen eighty nine, the New York legislature passed an
39:11
Speaker 14: had to prevent the odious practice of digging up and
39:14
Speaker 14: removing for the purpose of dissection, dead bodies interred in
39:18
Speaker 14: cemeteries or burial places.
39:21
Speaker 3: Basically, it bands.
39:23
Speaker 1: Grave robbing as if it wasn't already like not a thing,
39:26
Speaker 1: and legally.
39:27
Speaker 3: Provides a supply of cadavers. Now, so this act not
39:32
Speaker 3: only banned.
39:33
Speaker 1: Grave robbing, but it also stated that they would be
39:36
Speaker 1: allowed to dissect criminals who had been executed for murder,
39:40
Speaker 1: arson or burglary because they could be sentenced to dissection
39:45
Speaker 1: after death.
39:46
Speaker 3: That was an option when sentencing.
39:48
Speaker 1: It's like, it's like, listen to your motherfucker, I'm sentencing
39:53
Speaker 1: you to dissection after death, meaning that if somehow scum
39:59
Speaker 1: like you manages to make their way to the pearly
40:02
Speaker 1: gates on judgment day, you're not going to get through
40:05
Speaker 1: you because you're body going to be in bits, which
40:08
Speaker 1: is I don't know, feels a wee bit petty, but
40:11
Speaker 1: that's neither.
40:11
Speaker 3: Here nor there now any theory.
40:15
Speaker 1: This is a good idea, but again, too many doctors,
40:20
Speaker 1: not enough bodies, And like do they expect doctors to
40:25
Speaker 1: literally be lining up beside the gallows with a scalpel
40:28
Speaker 1: in hand?
40:29
Speaker 3: Like I'm ready?
40:31
Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like that's like a wee bit
40:33
Speaker 1: traumatizing for the people about to meet their maker. Imagine
40:36
Speaker 1: being sentenced to death and you're on the gallows, they're
40:40
Speaker 1: about to put like the noose around you, and what
40:43
Speaker 1: do you see but a bunch of fucking doctors lining
40:46
Speaker 1: up with a.
40:46
Speaker 4: Scalpel in hand, ready to fight each other so they
40:49
Speaker 4: can cut up your body when they're done, like ready
40:53
Speaker 4: to fight each other, so that ready to fight each other,
40:56
Speaker 4: so that they are nerdy to fight each other for.
40:59
Speaker 1: The opportunity to to cut up your corps after a
41:02
Speaker 1: short drop and a sudden stop like that feels unnecessarily
41:07
Speaker 1: traumatizing because I'm feeling if you stole a wee bit
41:09
Speaker 1: of gold or you burnt down a barn or something,
41:13
Speaker 1: I feel like a bit harsh, but anyway, needless.
41:18
Speaker 3: So yeah, well this was great in theory.
41:21
Speaker 1: Back in the land of reality, there's still not enough
41:24
Speaker 1: bodies to go round.
41:26
Speaker 3: It's all supply and demand, and.
41:29
Speaker 1: At this point most places just turned to resurrectionists, like
41:32
Speaker 1: they would not go down to the graves themselves to do.
41:34
Speaker 3: It anymore, Like it wasn't worth the risk. So they
41:37
Speaker 3: needed the bodies, but they had.
41:39
Speaker 1: To be careful about it. Basically everybody starts paying resurrectionists.
41:44
Speaker 1: They were at least trying to be discreet, you know.
41:47
Speaker 1: But here's the thing. Scandals related to dissecting bodies and
41:52
Speaker 1: grave robbing. They continued up until like the twentieth century
41:57
Speaker 1: before they sort of disappeared into the ether because like
42:00
Speaker 1: at one point, because it got to the point where
42:02
Speaker 1: people just started donating their bodies to medical science, and
42:05
Speaker 1: there was so much people already knew because of the
42:08
Speaker 1: previous dissections and stuff, so they weren't really needed as much.
42:12
Speaker 3: The supply the demand was much lower, you know.
42:16
Speaker 1: So the billbones weren't the only things to come out
42:18
Speaker 1: of the doctor's riots in the States, because they also
42:22
Speaker 1: led to the earliest medical licensing system in the colonies,
42:27
Speaker 1: meaning that if you wanted to be a doctor, then
42:30
Speaker 1: you had to get an apprenticeship with a respected physician
42:33
Speaker 1: or attend two years of medical school. On top of this,
42:37
Speaker 1: you had to pass this rigorous government exam, meaning that
42:42
Speaker 1: you couldn't just go to a school for a couple
42:44
Speaker 1: of years and be like, I'm a doctor now.
42:46
Speaker 3: You had to actually pass an exam.
42:48
Speaker 1: Because you didn't have to do that before. There was
42:51
Speaker 1: no real criteria other than learn some shit and then
42:55
Speaker 1: put up your zign. And as a general rule, I
42:57
Speaker 1: feel like if anyone's going to be practicing mid in,
43:00
Speaker 1: being able to pass an exam about practicing medicine is
43:05
Speaker 1: generally a good idea that my friends was the seventeen
43:09
Speaker 1: eighty eight Doctor's Riot. What have we learned today? We
43:15
Speaker 1: learned that being a doctor in the eighteenth century was.
43:18
Speaker 3: Pretty fucking easy if you had enough money to do so.
43:22
Speaker 1: We also learned that pranks are not cool, and that
43:26
Speaker 1: waving severed appendages to small children.
43:29
Speaker 3: Generally not a good idea. I feel like these are
43:33
Speaker 3: standard things we should know.
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Speaker 1: But we also learned that even though modern medicine isn't
43:38
Speaker 1: exactly perfect, it's definitely a lot better than it was
43:43
Speaker 1: in the eighteenth century.
43:46
Speaker 3: You know what?
43:46
Speaker 1: After that, I definitely think it's recommendation time. So for reading,
43:51
Speaker 1: I'm gonna recommend Forgotten Bastards of the Eastern Front, an
43:56
Speaker 1: untold story of World War Two by Sergei Plotchi. I
44:00
Speaker 1: feel like I've pronounced that name wrong, but I'm sure
44:02
Speaker 1: someone will be able to correct me at some point,
44:04
Speaker 1: So read that. For watching, I am going to recommend
44:08
Speaker 1: what About Watch recently for watching, Flight Attendant season two
44:12
Speaker 1: is out. I love Crailey Coco. She's so awesome, and
44:18
Speaker 1: I love her weird seventies hair. I just a vibe
44:21
Speaker 1: with it, you know. I also like an interesting plot
44:25
Speaker 1: tist with it. I also like TV shows that have
44:28
Speaker 1: flaweds also quite a fan of TV shows that have
44:31
Speaker 1: flawed central characters. And for listening, I've been listening to
44:36
Speaker 1: the podcast Art of History by Amanda Matta. The latest episode,
44:41
Speaker 1: The Man in His Muse. Absolutely loved it, so if
44:44
Speaker 1: you're into that sort of thing, go check it out.
44:47
Speaker 1: And before I go, if you enjoyed this episode of
44:50
Speaker 1: the podcast, feel free to rate and review five stars
44:53
Speaker 1: on Apple podcast Spotify, all that Jazz, And if you
44:58
Speaker 1: want to have we chat or talk or send me
44:59
Speaker 1: a message or anything you want to recommend stuff, you
45:02
Speaker 1: can catch me on all the socials Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, everything.
45:08
Speaker 3: Links are on the description down below. And with that,
45:11
Speaker 3: I shall bid you adieu adieu, and with that I
45:18
Speaker 3: shall take my leave of you.
45:20
Speaker 1: Ideos or re wir of wo is them my friends
45:24
Speaker 1: a bye bye