Latest / The Curve / RTC142: The art of making money from handbags, with Meg Randell.

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RTC142: The art of making money from handbags, with Meg Randell. · The Curve

0:00
Welcome to Raisin the Curve, a podcast designed to teach you everything that you need to know to be better with your money.
0:06
Come and learn alongside me, Sophie Hallwright, a total beginner from the finance expert Victoria Harris.
0:12
So I've asked all of the questions you wish you could so that finance, investing and growing you are actually makes sense.
0:18
Yes, it's expert education, but with promise will not be boring. And in the wise words of sheer...
0:23
My mom said to me, you know sweetheart, one day you should settle down and marry a rich man.
0:28
And I said, Mum, I am a rich man. Come and talk and learn and laugh with us because together we really can raise the curve.
0:35
Buying stocks and investing can be a little boring, even though we're trying to make it fun as of.
0:40
Well I just think a lot of people assume that they're not interested in business.
0:45
And actually it's just the fact that you... it hasn't been proscented in a way that is interesting to you.
0:50
But then in saying that, I think when it comes to investing and particularly investing in the stock market,
0:57
it is... you know we've spoken up a lot, it's like it's intangible. There's nothing that you can hold on to.
1:03
That's why so many people love buying property because they can see it, they can use it.
1:07
And there's a bit of ego in Mac, this is my house.
1:09
It's true. I want to make it look pretty. Yeah.
1:12
You have house pride and investment pride, whereas stock market you're going to run around like opening up your investing app.
1:18
Like folio on your t-shirt and saying, I own this.
1:21
And this is why this conversation with Meg Randall was so exciting because I think it will relate to a lot of people
1:29
and it's all about investing not just in stocks and not in property and bonds and all that quote unquote boring stuff.
1:36
But exciting things, particularly handbags, because with many luxury items usually buy in, it's gone.
1:42
Like if you invest in wine or champagne, you buy it and you drink and it's gone or a car,
1:50
it depreciates in value so quickly. Whereas with a handbag, you can actually make a lot of money out of it
1:57
and she goes through all the different ways that you can do that, things you should look out for.
2:01
I definitely came away being like, hmm, I need to diversify.
2:06
And there's one brand in particular that hikes prices every year, which means that when it comes to if you want to buy a handbag
2:14
that you can both use and enjoy that also you know is guaranteed to increase in value.
2:20
We talk about that. I think one of the most exciting bits for me was actually learning about how some of these handbags and brands came to be so like on it.
2:29
Thank you Grace Kelly and Samantha from Sex and the City. And how that is still reverberating today in terms of the way that this particular asset class,
2:37
if you buy properly, you buy the right brands, you know how to look after them, you can actually make really great returns.
2:43
I think that's the hardest thing for you. What, looking after them?
2:46
Oh, 100%. I was listening to this episode again like after our team had edited it and I was like, I am so embarrassing.
2:54
I started bringing up the idea of like, well, what if you have chewing gum in your bag or what if you accidentally did and I was like, she's like, oh gosh.
3:01
She's like, wow, who am I speaking to?
3:03
But we also talked about buying new versus secondhand, how to spot if it's fake, how you can make sure that your investments really don't depreciate in value, aka chewing gum and all of those things.
3:13
So here is Meg Randall.
3:15
Welcome, welcome to the studio. I guess I want to start. We had an event.
3:24
It would have been the end of last year with an auction house in New Zealand about investing beyond stocks and property and bonds.
3:32
And it was so well received and we were like, you know what?
3:35
We want to have a follow up discussion in terms of getting people interested in investing in things that they might not think that they can invest in.
3:43
And so we wanted to get Meg Randall on the podcast to talk about specifically investing in handbags. So welcome.
3:51
Hi.
3:52
So can you just kind of give a bit of background in terms of what got you interested in investing in luxury handbags?
4:00
Did anyone like spark your interest in particular? Will your parents interested in that? Like, how did you first get interested because it's like, why do niche?
4:09
Yeah, handbags are very neat. Just getting less niche the longer I do it interestingly.
4:14
So I started specializing in handbags about 12, 13 years ago at auction.
4:19
So I've always worked for auction houses. Strangely my first job was as a ceramic specialist. So completely not.
4:26
Wow.
4:27
Handbags.
4:28
So Remix is in bold place.
4:29
Yeah.
4:30
It was a lot of Victorian sculptors of funny licking men and pretty women.
4:35
Oh my gosh.
4:36
You and me are so different.
4:37
I like history and all of that kind of like sculptures and everything at school.
4:41
I was like, I was like, I was like, I just don't get it.
4:45
It's not two plus two equals four.
4:47
Yeah.
4:48
Whereas I was very knocked in the mass.
4:49
So yeah.
4:50
My camera would be exactly.
4:53
But yeah, so that was my very first job as an auction house.
4:56
And whilst I was there, some people bought some fashion items into set.
5:00
And I thought, well, that's a lot more fun.
5:03
So I started sort of veering away from ceramics and towards fashion.
5:06
Yeah.
5:07
And then I moved to London.
5:09
And I was working at a small auction house as a smalls value earth.
5:14
And whilst I was doing that, someone bought in a load of Chanel handbags.
5:18
And I was like, oh, I'll take this.
5:21
Thank you.
5:22
And they were so beautiful.
5:23
But I freaked out because I thought, oh my god, you know, I don't know anything about handbags.
5:27
And really at the time, people weren't selling them.
5:30
People were beginning to talk about, you know, the value of designer handbags.
5:34
But it was still sort of seen as that thing that people wasted money on that didn't really have any intrinsic value.
5:41
But anyway, I did all the research on the Chanel.
5:43
I taught myself how to authenticate.
5:45
I think it took about three months of me having these bags before I actually put them to auction.
5:49
Anyway, they obviously did hugely well.
5:52
Everything sold or went for triple the estimate.
5:54
It was amazing.
5:55
And we were like, yeah.
5:56
Well, this feels more like something I want to do.
5:59
Yeah.
6:00
And I just think I was really lucky because it really was the start of this big boom of people selling designer handbags
6:08
and the secondary market really taking off.
6:10
And when was this?
6:11
Again?
6:12
It was about 14 years ago.
6:13
It's okay.
6:15
But I just happened to be there right at the start of this boom, which has been, you know, really informed me.
6:21
So very lucky.
6:22
And more recently, Bonham's auction house asked me to set up a department about five years ago in London.
6:28
So Bonham's weren't doing handbags before that point.
6:32
I'm just fascinated by the subject because they think I've heard for so long about investing in stocks and investing in property and investing crypto.
6:41
And one of those things that as women were like classically made fun of is shopping.
6:45
And so the idea that we can make money from this type of investing is very exciting.
6:51
Yeah.
6:52
And actually, that's a huge difference that I've noticed over the years that when I first started doing it, quite often you might get a couple coming in.
6:59
And, you know, he's got classic antiques or something that's known to be something you can sell at auction.
7:07
And then they might say something throw away like, oh, you know, she's got a Chanel handbag, you know, what a waste of money.
7:13
And I'd be able to say, well, actually, you know what is selling really well is her handbags and maybe the traditional types of things that you thought you were investing in aren't currently that popular.
7:25
And so I found it very, you know, reassurance, but actually, you know, listen to her because she hasn't wasted her money on these beautiful things that she's been enjoying for the last 10 years.
7:34
We can actually sell those. You can release some equity. Whereas nowadays nobody comes in and says, oh, it's just a bag.
7:42
And it's not worth anything.
7:43
And what I've noticed is I'm getting more and more male clients.
7:47
They know that there's an investment potential.
7:49
So when we have auction previews before a sale, I'm getting more and more men turning up and being like, well, I know that's a birkin.
7:55
You know, that's a good investment and almost trying to talk, you know, their wife or their female friend into buying it.
8:01
It's almost like a win for both, right?
8:03
Because the husband or the partner if assuming that there's a man.
8:07
Thanks. Okay.
8:09
My wife's going to be stoked with this investment that they can enjoy that's not a waste of money.
8:16
Because it's true that there are things you can buy that massively devalue, the fact that men invest in verticals and cars.
8:24
Which like the most iconic depreciating asset ever.
8:29
And yet we yet so much for designer brands is just bad for them.
8:33
I think it's really interesting because investing in handbags, you know, we're not saying it's the most safe, you know, easy, you know, if you buy a bag, you will make money.
8:41
It's a fluctuating market and there are ways you can do it better than others.
8:45
I think fundamentally if you're buying something that you really love, you do get to enjoy it.
8:50
So for a lot of luxury things, you buy it, you enjoy it and then it's gone like a car or I don't know a bottle of wine or something.
8:57
Whereas this you buy it, you love it.
8:59
Hopefully the market stays in your favor and you can either sell it for a similar price that you bought it for and that kind of makes it like a free enjoyment.
9:07
Or in some cases, it goes up in money.
9:09
I mean, that is so satisfying that you've had this amazing bag for three years.
9:13
And then at the end of it, you end up sort of five grand, I mean, that's amazing.
9:18
The saddest thing that much, what are we doing?
9:24
We shouldn't be buying anything except Chanel handbags.
9:27
You should be looking at percentage stuff.
9:30
What do you mean?
9:31
Like percentage return.
9:32
Yeah, but how much would a Chanel, let's just use that as an example.
9:35
Let's say someone did go up five grand in three years just using it as a, I know it's hypothetical.
9:41
What would something that like that have cost to purchase?
9:45
Chanel tends to appreciate in value if you're buying the classic design.
9:49
So the classic flap bag is the one with the like the chain and the like the quilted looking.
9:56
Exactly.
9:57
And it's got a nice like CC turn locks.
9:59
That's the iconic bag.
10:01
It's called the 2.55 because it was designed in February 1955.
10:06
Like Gabrielle Chanel.
10:07
And one of the reasons why they tend to go up in value is that Chanel do these very aggressive price hikes.
10:14
Year on year in their stores.
10:16
Sometimes they increase the price at the same bag as many times as three times a year.
10:21
So one bag can literally be 25% more expensive than it was 12 months ago.
10:26
Is that kind of concerning though you're at the whim of Chanel?
10:29
Like it's not supply and demand, taking a stock for example.
10:33
It's like the more people that demand it, the more the price goes up.
10:36
And whereas it's not the company going, we're going to put our share price up.
10:39
Or we'll limit the amount of bags we produce.
10:42
Or do this.
10:43
Because maybe because that's maybe a different way of looking at it.
10:45
That's like the ermie's model isn't it?
10:47
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
10:49
So Chanel every time they put their price increase up, there's all these blogs saying they've gone too far.
10:55
No one's going to buy it.
10:56
And then people keep buying it.
10:58
And they do it again.
10:59
And they do it again.
11:00
So this is an amazing thing where they're like surely that's too much.
11:02
So when I first started doing at these classic flat bags,
11:05
we're retailing it like 4,000 pounds, which is a lot of money.
11:09
But that same bag is more like nine and a half grand now.
11:12
Which, you know, it's about a brand new Chanel classic flat.
11:16
It's a similar price to brand new ermie's Birkin,
11:19
whereas used to be sort of half the price.
11:21
So that's kind of where the money is.
11:23
With a Chanel bag, you are unlikely to buy it from the store
11:26
and sell it the next day for more money.
11:28
It will have gone down.
11:29
But if you hold onto it, the retail price will have increased so much.
11:33
But actually you can sell it.
11:36
So bags that you might have bought.
11:37
Absolutely.
11:38
The genius.
11:39
You bring them to auction.
11:40
They make five grand.
11:41
They can't be retailing for nine.
11:43
But you know, you've made two grand with a bag that you've.
11:46
So that's kind of how that works in investment.
11:49
You should now have absolutely nailed it.
11:51
Like that's genius.
11:53
But surely, surely this is a sold off I go to buy Chanel.
11:57
A lot of you woke up one day and Chanel was that look.
12:00
We're really struggling.
12:01
We're going to have to have 50% off sale for every item.
12:05
I mean, I mean, they haven't never been on sale.
12:07
They never have.
12:08
And that's the whole point.
12:10
But I guess we'll come to diversification by multiple.
12:13
It's a multiple different brands.
12:15
Yeah.
12:16
But what Chanel has now done is they've released this quota.
12:19
So it used to be you could go into a Chanel store
12:21
and buy as many of these bags as you wanted.
12:23
Well, now you're only allowed to buy one or two classic flaps a year.
12:27
You know, one of them.
12:28
Only one or two a year.
12:29
It is more than one of the same bag.
12:32
You had to be surprised.
12:33
Yeah.
12:34
Yeah.
12:35
Because if I had the money to invest in things like that.
12:38
And when I say invest, I mean, I would be buying it thinking,
12:41
I'm so clever.
12:42
I look so hot, but I'm so clever.
12:43
Yeah.
12:44
I would diversify.
12:45
I invite lots of different styles and brands and colors and shapes.
12:48
Yeah.
12:49
I wouldn't be going and getting too excited.
12:51
But I think that's the whole decision is this.
12:55
Is this something that I just want to buy and use?
12:57
And I don't care if it just appreciates any value.
12:59
Or is this something I want to buy and use?
13:01
But actually have it as an investment of the long term.
13:03
And I think that's the different mindset.
13:05
If you're in camp two, then you're kind of not looking at the hottest trend.
13:10
You're looking at the longest lasting trend.
13:12
Exactly the same as investing in stocks.
13:14
Going back to what you said before around like how, you know, wives or the woman used to come in
13:20
and be like, oh, it's the waste of money.
13:22
And now it's actually like, no, it's an investment.
13:24
And there's actually value in it and that can appreciate and value.
13:26
What do you think was that change in tone or change in tide of realizing that handbags
13:32
are not only just frivolous items, but they're actually investments?
13:35
Yeah.
13:36
Well, I feel it's got a lot to do with the rise of sort of secondary e-commerce online.
13:41
They just became more popular.
13:43
You know, they used to be a bit more of a stigma.
13:45
Oh, it's a second hand bag.
13:46
Whereas now, you know, people are impressed.
13:48
Oh, you got that auction or you got that second hand.
13:50
You know, you got that bag that was so big in 2012 and then they haven't released it again.
13:55
So, you know, it's all part of buying in a more sustainable way.
13:59
You know, it all sort of feeds into all these narratives.
14:02
Is it also the companies themselves limiting the supply and doing like limited releases
14:07
and realizing like if we do, you know, 200 of these bags and never do them again,
14:12
then that's going to lead to an increase.
14:14
Sort of, but when people talk about investment, it's M is number one,
14:17
and the Chanel number two, and then the others have much sort of further down the line.
14:21
The really it's M is and they've always had very limited appeal.
14:25
Not appeal, sorry.
14:26
If they have not had limited.
14:28
Limited stock, limited supply.
14:30
Yeah, limited.
14:31
It's a really hard to find someone that likes their bag.
14:33
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
14:34
They're going down down in Belior.
14:36
Yeah, yeah.
14:37
But yeah, they've always had limited stock, you know,
14:39
their hand made things.
14:40
They take a Kelly takes about 24 hours to make a book and takes about 32 hours to make,
14:45
you know, they're completely made by hand.
14:47
They've always been limited.
14:49
The Air Maze market is kind of what views the whole thing.
14:53
The model of buying Air Maze is just fascinating.
14:56
How did the Birken become the Birken?
14:58
Can we talk about it?
14:59
Yeah, can we talk about it?
15:00
Because I know it's going to be the actress.
15:02
I don't even know that.
15:03
Okay, yeah.
15:04
Can we start from the beginning?
15:05
I'd love to know.
15:06
I'd love to know.
15:07
Oh, I thought this was my sweet story.
15:09
Yeah.
15:10
Okay, give us the story because there will be a lot of people that know the name Booker.
15:14
Yeah.
15:15
But not a lot of people.
15:17
I knew what I'd do it again.
15:19
I was about to say I did this in a live podcast record that we did in New Zealand.
15:23
I called it a Birken.
15:24
I called it a Birken.
15:25
A Birken.
15:26
And it was a live podcast.
15:28
And I was looking at her life.
15:29
And that goes away from life.
15:30
We just said that.
15:31
And I was like, what?
15:32
What?
15:33
And she was like, do you want me to repeat it?
15:34
And I was like, oh, my God.
15:35
The audience was a bit like, you know, you know, look at that.
15:39
Birken, Birken, Birken.
15:40
Can you give us a rundown of actually how it became famous and why there's so
15:46
much value tied up in this particular bag?
15:49
Yeah.
15:50
So there are two M.A.'s bags that really are the Kremlin or Kremlin at the top of the game.
15:55
So it's the M.A.'s Birken and the M.A.'s Kelly.
15:58
So the M.A.'s Kelly was designed in sort of the early 1900.
16:01
And it was very popular with sort of pervazine women.
16:05
But in a very limited way, you know, the completely handmade.
16:08
They were just sort of available in the Paris boutique.
16:10
And then in the 50s, Princess Grace Kelly was filming to catch a thief.
16:16
With Alfred Hitchcock.
16:17
And Edith Herb, the costume designer, gave her an M.A.'s Kelly as part of a wardrobe.
16:23
It doesn't make it into the film.
16:24
But Grace Kelly loved the bag.
16:26
There's this very famous photo of her.
16:28
And she's pregnant, but she hasn't yet announced it to the world.
16:32
And she uses her Kelly's.
16:34
Is it this one?
16:35
Yeah.
16:36
Exactly. It's that photo.
16:37
Oh, my God.
16:38
It's such a great photo.
16:40
And so the handbag covers the bump.
16:41
So the handbag covers the bump.
16:43
And that was the photo that all the newspapers used to sort of break the story of the fact that she was pregnant.
16:49
Oh, my God.
16:50
With this princess son, you know.
16:51
Well, yes, great product placement.
16:53
Yeah, exactly.
16:54
And so after that, everybody wanted this bag.
16:57
M.A.'s officially renamed it after her in the 70s.
17:00
But that was really the first bag that got M.A.'s from an immediately successful French brand.
17:06
This sort of global sensation.
17:08
It was really American women that sort of pushed it up.
17:11
And then it was in the early 80s that the Birkin came about.
17:15
And the story behind the Birkin, whether it's true or not,
17:18
is that the English and actress Jane Birkin was on a flight between Paris and London.
17:23
And she happened to be sitting next to the director of M.A.'s at the time.
17:27
And the idea is that she'd put her bag in the overhead luggage and all of her stuff had fallen out.
17:31
And she said, God, I wish someone would design a leather bag big enough to hold all of my stuff.
17:37
And he said, well, let's design one now.
17:40
And they designed the Birkin on the plane.
17:42
Yeah, on the back of a sick bag is the story.
17:45
The idea of them designing this bag is really interesting,
17:47
because the bag already existed in a bigger size.
17:49
It's just the smaller version.
17:51
So then that came out in 1984 a few years later.
17:54
And it was always called the Birkin.
17:55
So it was always named for her.
17:57
And again, it was really popular.
17:59
People really liked it.
18:00
But it wasn't global the way it is now.
18:02
And then in the 96 in the city did a whole thing about it.
18:06
It's a month that's trying to get a Birkin.
18:08
And it's horrifying.
18:10
Yeah.
18:11
It's horrifying to find out that there's just like six month waiting list.
18:15
Anyway, so that's kind of what really puts on people's radars.
18:18
It's also like a status symbol now.
18:20
And so it's, yeah.
18:21
I really, this is so controversial.
18:23
I don't like the design.
18:25
If I bought my own Birkin, I think I would retire.
18:29
That would be a success for me.
18:30
Do you mean if I could afford a Birkin?
18:33
If you retire, you have nailed life.
18:36
Not what I knew.
18:38
I mean, it might sound very materialistic.
18:41
Yes.
18:42
Thank you in terms of light.
18:43
But there is this weird status.
18:45
Yeah.
18:46
And it's an investment.
18:47
So it's still going to grow in value.
18:48
Can I just say I don't like it?
18:51
But what's that?
18:52
That's like 40,000.
18:53
Would you say?
18:54
No.
18:55
So I mean, a new leather Birkin, they retail around 9,000 now in leather.
19:00
They're cheaper for the smaller ones.
19:03
Or the smaller ones, the self one, the secondary market.
19:05
This one's online for 198,000 pounds.
19:10
And it's a...
19:11
You wouldn't like that.
19:12
No, I'm not going to lie.
19:13
I actually think that's the nicest one I've seen.
19:15
It doesn't align with my values, but I must say.
19:18
But I think also, if I had 9,000 pounds, I would prefer to invest in a handbag that I can use,
19:26
but it's still going to grow in value, then put them in the stock market.
19:29
Yeah.
19:30
A fully disappeared.
19:31
But the thing with Emmys at the moment, they are really hard to get hold of in the primary market.
19:36
So it used to be, you'd put your name down on a list,
19:39
and then any time between six months and 18 months later, you'd get a call in your Birkin would be red.
19:44
So it was a real, you know, you have been waiting for it.
19:47
Here it is.
19:48
But they've done away with that.
19:49
So now it's actually much more difficult, and it's a lot less efficient.
19:53
So there's no official rules of how to buy a Birkin.
19:56
And, you know, there'll be some stories of people going into a store saying I'd like to buy a Birkin,
20:00
and then them saying, yeah, here you go, 9,000 pounds please.
20:03
Usually you'll be told, we don't have any Birkins, we don't have any in stock.
20:06
The way in which to get a Birkin now or a Kelly is to have enough of a buy and portfolio with Emmys,
20:12
and it's only once you've spent enough, will you be allowed to buy the bag that you want?
20:18
Are we like, who are you?
20:19
Yeah, Mrs. Unglissus?
20:21
Yeah.
20:22
Mrs. Unglissus?
20:23
A little bit.
20:24
I wasn't here buying.
20:25
I was going to be.
20:26
I was going to be.
20:27
I was going to be.
20:29
It's something like 40 or 50,000 pounds that you have to have spent before you're allowed to buy a Birkin or a Kelly.
20:35
And you can only buy the less popular sizes or the less popular colours.
20:39
The more you spend, the more control you have on what you can buy.
20:42
And, you know, if you want to buy it, it's not a picture to have had to spend even more.
20:47
It's not official.
20:48
It's not my hair or the rules.
20:50
And it's really interesting because obviously some people hear that and they think,
20:53
I don't want to play that game.
20:55
But the majority of people that I deal with, you know, they love the game.
20:58
You know, it's part of it, you know, the brand brand new bags.
21:01
That's where you get this huge uptick.
21:03
So like this bag that bought it from Harris for five and a half thousand pounds,
21:07
bought it directly to us in Night's Bridge.
21:09
We put it into sale because it was brand new.
21:11
It sold for 36,000 pounds.
21:13
So sometimes you can flip numbers.
21:15
You put it for five thousand and then gave it to you and then you sold it for 36,000.
21:19
What happened in between?
21:21
Well, because of the sort of bag that it was, nobody could just go into Emma's and buy it.
21:26
They didn't have this huge portfolio.
21:28
So they only bought it for five and a half thousand pounds.
21:30
But they'd already spent hundreds of thousands of pounds in that store.
21:34
Got you.
21:35
We could have broken bait.
21:36
So buying other things.
21:37
They're buying bait.
21:38
They love it.
21:39
I know.
21:40
I reckon we should do a little trial.
21:43
What do you mean?
21:44
Go into Emma's.
21:45
See who can look most expensive.
21:46
And just see if any of us just go to a few stores and just see the process.
21:53
That's a very good idea.
21:55
Because we have big sunglasses, big hats, just heaps of jewels and just look like that.
21:58
I think you can do a good like bitch face when you want to.
22:02
I think that you would look way more expensive.
22:05
One thing I wanted to ask was just around hearing you speaking like the price of the bags and everything.
22:12
That's a very niche market.
22:13
The great thing about investing in stocks is like, if you have $10, you know, you can start
22:17
growing your portfolio and all that.
22:19
Is there any way that you could invest in handbags and get that appreciation and value without
22:25
having to fork out the full amount?
22:28
Yeah.
22:29
Buying second handbags is a really great opportunity.
22:31
Because you can obviously have more control about what you can buy.
22:34
You don't have to buy it from the store.
22:35
You get a great variety.
22:37
What I'm trying to say is like, if you want to buy art and you can't afford a big piece
22:40
of art, there's syndicates you can band together.
22:42
Does that exist with handbags or is it just the second hand market that's slightly more expensive?
22:46
Yeah.
22:47
I mean, there aren't syndicate buying yet.
22:49
But for those who don't have, you know, amaze amounts of money, which is most of us.
22:54
Yeah.
22:55
There are lots of brands that you can buy on the secondary market that are fairly affordable.
22:59
I mean, the prices of stuff that I sell at my auctions, we start at a hundred pounds.
23:04
Some of it, you know, it isn't wildly expensive.
23:07
You can't buy a brand new, you leave it on back and then sell it and get the same amount of money or more.
23:12
But a lot of them just are eternally popular.
23:15
There's a lot of designs that have been around for decades and decades and decades.
23:19
And so they might currently retail at a thousand pounds in store.
23:22
But you'll probably be able to sell them for four, five, six hundred pounds, even if you've really used it.
23:27
So that's, you know, that's having a bag, using it for its purpose, really enjoying it.
23:32
And then being able to sell it for some money at the end.
23:36
So, you know, still releasing some equity once you no longer want it.
23:40
At what point would you need to say this is no longer valuable?
23:43
I can no longer sell this on.
23:45
Depending on the brand, but amaze and schnell definitely, even in the worst condition, even still self for money.
23:51
Louis Vuitton actually, people will still take it in really poor condition.
23:56
You know, if it really needs restoration, you know, if it doesn't function as a bag anymore,
24:00
there are lots of companies that restore bags for you.
24:04
So amaze and schnell have their own really great, they call them handbags bars.
24:09
Oh my god, I love that.
24:11
The Birken boat and the hair mix bars.
24:13
They can make them almost back to a brand new bag because most of these bags that we're talking about,
24:18
they are handmade, they're kind of designed to last.
24:22
So you should always be able to repair them.
24:24
So, you know, some of our buyers really like the ones in terrible condition
24:28
that they will then go and get them restored.
24:30
And then that sort of adds value.
24:32
I was going to say it's almost like renovating a house.
24:34
Yeah, that's what I was saying.
24:36
Exactly what I was saying.
24:38
You're always like just like getting a bathroom.
24:40
Exactly.
24:41
Why have Louis Vuitton Gucci Prada?
24:44
Why have they not got classic handbags that are doing as well?
24:48
They have a much bigger output of designs
24:52
and they haven't really limited the supply in the way that certainly amaze and now a bit more schnell has.
24:57
But then things like the Christians, you're a saddlebag.
25:00
So that was a really big bag.
25:02
It came out in 1999.
25:04
Designed by John Galliano.
25:06
And then they've just sort of been kicking around 10 years ago.
25:09
I'd get offered a lot of options because they were no longer in fashion.
25:12
Six years ago, they re-released it.
25:14
And when they re-released it, they gave loads of influencers a free bag.
25:18
And then on the same day, Instagram was just full of all these glamorous people being like,
25:22
I love my saddlebag.
25:24
And they went wild.
25:25
And they've actually stayed pretty popular ever since.
25:28
Gosh, we're such a sheep, aren't we?
25:30
Yeah.
25:31
I like to think sometimes I have a bit of individuality, but I don't.
25:35
I don't at all.
25:36
It's like they're always Prada.
25:38
I really love that.
25:39
Bet belt.
25:40
You think this belt is just like that?
25:42
Yeah.
25:43
Yeah.
25:44
People like it.
25:46
Yeah.
25:47
Do you have any fun stories about bags that have had a really incredible return
25:53
where you're just like, while that was kind of an anomaly
25:56
or quite an amazing story that might motivate some people to what?
26:00
I'm thinking like Antique's roadshow, you know, and people come on and they're like,
26:03
I found this in the bottom of the basement.
26:05
They're like, oh, well, if you hadn't drilled a hole through it,
26:07
it would have been worth 300,000 hours.
26:09
Yeah.
26:10
Back to the saddlebag.
26:12
So before it was re-released, I had, you know, I'd been selling them at auction for a couple
26:19
hundred pounds.
26:20
And I remember I had this very beautiful ostrich skin, a purple one with like a
26:23
bejewel chain.
26:24
It was so gorgeous.
26:25
Well.
26:26
We put it in at 4,600 and it didn't sell and like the vendor would have taken 200.
26:30
Like he really didn't care.
26:31
It was just an old bag.
26:32
And so I gave it back to him and then they re-released it.
26:35
And I said, you know, can I, can I try that bag again at auction?
26:38
He was like, I mean, I guess you can.
26:41
You know, if you really want to try it again, we put it in auction, it's off 2,000 pounds.
26:45
And you know, eight months ago, anyone could have bought that for 200 pounds.
26:49
But, you know, it was just before they'd re-released it.
26:52
So fashion can have this huge uptick.
26:54
If you can trend forecast, you can just make so much money on, you know, buying things
26:58
before they get re-release or understanding, you know, this is what is going to be really
27:03
fashionable in a few years.
27:04
We should get people on the World's biggest investing club, get fashion forward people
27:09
who know the trends in handbags so that we can all buy the things that are currently selling
27:14
for almost nothing.
27:15
We'll just get them to talk to us.
27:16
What about the cost of living crisis?
27:18
People not spending as much money on the stuff.
27:20
Like have you seen a bit of an influx in people selling?
27:23
We do find that actually our clients, even when, you know, there's cost of living crisis
27:28
or there's, you know, big political events happening.
27:30
You think, oh my goodness, will that really change things?
27:33
But I think buying things like bagging it, that's like, that's a nice thing to spend money on.
27:38
You'd rather have that thing, but they can actually see and that they know that they like
27:43
and it makes them feel better, rather than, you know, other things, you know, investments
27:48
that maybe you can't see or you're worried about what's going to happen.
27:52
Often we find more people buying bags because I think they almost want that reassuring thing
27:56
or, you know, it's just something nice to put your money in.
27:59
They might just be buying it because it's shopping.
28:02
Because yeah, yeah.
28:04
But it's a warm joke.
28:06
It's a warm joke.
28:08
I'm sorry.
28:10
No, just on that, the thing with investing in stocks and property as well is that there's a lot of
28:15
you can't give up on investing.
28:17
So I'm trying to compare it like you can wake up every day and see the value of your investment
28:22
and the thing with investing in handbags kind of like property.
28:26
You don't wake up and get a letter in the post saying this is the value of your house.
28:29
So what would be the biggest reason people sell?
28:32
Is it that because it's going up?
28:34
So that's really interesting.
28:36
So what I find is that people, you know, they just know when they're ready to part with their bags.
28:40
People just know in a lot of the time they're selling because they're going to buy another one, you know.
28:45
I do actually find that whilst people are buying with investment in mind,
28:48
not that many people are selling specifically because they have noticed that that is this reason.
28:57
That value is not the primary driver.
28:59
It's almost like there's an emotional attachment and then the bonuses of it,
29:03
the value changes or yeah.
29:05
What's the most absurd amount of handbags that someone's owned?
29:08
I mean, that's my favourite part of the job.
29:11
And because Bonham's is international, I've got to travel around Europe going to people's wardrobes.
29:16
Oh my god.
29:17
And you lose people's wardrobes if you say that's so exciting.
29:21
It is amazing.
29:23
I was in this wardrobe in Italy and it was essentially an entire floor of this like five story house
29:30
was just for handbags and clothes.
29:33
Surely you wouldn't miss if I just took one.
29:36
Come on, you're never know.
29:39
And that apartment was amazing because one of the rooms was a kitchen,
29:43
but they were just using it as a wardrobe.
29:46
How are you not losing it and being embarrassing?
29:50
I do lose everything.
29:52
It's like seeing a famous celebrity.
29:55
It's nice because typically the people who have these collections,
29:59
they want them to be like appreciating it.
30:01
It's great that someone comes in and goes, I love your back.
30:04
What a great collection.
30:06
I would love to know what are the top buying tips for people.
30:10
So let's just say someone's wanting to invest in a beautiful handbag.
30:15
What are some of the key things that we should be asking ourselves looking out for?
30:20
I mean, we've made it clear on the two best brands in terms of price,
30:24
but whether it be condition or colour or who owned it.
30:29
So when you're buying for investment,
30:32
a stictor Amazon Chanel,
30:34
stictor the very classic models,
30:36
the ones that have been around for decades,
30:38
because they are less likely to go out of fashion,
30:40
but also, you know, stictor, pretty neutral colours.
30:43
They can also do things like buying a Louis Vuitton artist co-labs.
30:47
They commemorate with Miracame and Yayou Kazama.
30:50
And those can really go up and value those can be really collectible,
30:53
but they have also done artist collaborations that aren't so popular.
30:57
So those can be great investments,
30:59
but they're not always great investments.
31:01
I think really think about who the artist is and how popular they're likely to be.
31:06
I think the biggest, the most key thing is obviously authenticity,
31:09
because that's a huge part of what we do.
31:12
We have three specialists at Bonnams in London,
31:14
and you know, sometimes we even get a fourth opinion as well,
31:17
because you cannot be too careful when it comes to authenticity.
31:21
There are some amazing facts on the market that, you know,
31:24
most people can't spot and you need a lot of training.
31:26
So if you're buying from the secondary market,
31:28
you know, buying from an option like Bonnams,
31:30
where you know that they've gone through an authentication process
31:32
and you're protected, is a really good idea.
31:35
But if you're buying from other places,
31:37
I think just feel empowered to ask as many questions as you can.
31:41
You know, keep asking questions.
31:43
You know, I've been to amazing collections,
31:45
where 95% of the bags are real.
31:48
And you think, well, of course, all this woman's bags are real.
31:50
She has a multimillionaire.
31:52
And there'll still be some fakes in the collection,
31:54
whether she knows it or not.
31:56
No, imagine.
31:57
You have to be so careful,
32:00
because it's really hard, and you know,
32:02
if you buy a fake online, it's probably quite hard to get your money back.
32:05
And then things like condition,
32:07
just you really have to be careful of condition.
32:10
You know, how has it been stored?
32:12
How does it be stored?
32:13
How does it need to be stored?
32:14
Is it, is this specific, like, out of the sunlight?
32:16
You know, I mean, probably not a line bike.
32:18
But why?
32:19
Yeah.
32:21
Definitely in places like Dubai and in Hong Kong,
32:23
they do have temperature-controlled wardrobes
32:25
because of humidity and heat.
32:27
So they need to be stored out direct sunlight.
32:29
They'll come in like a dust bag,
32:31
a canvas bag that is best to store them in,
32:33
so that you don't get anything nasty on them.
32:35
What about insurance?
32:36
Yeah.
32:37
Is it vital to get insurance?
32:39
So more and more often people are itemising
32:42
their Emma's bags on insurance.
32:45
I'm just thinking about, like, me with staff,
32:48
I'm so bad.
32:49
I cannot keep hold of anything to save my life.
32:53
It's just such a problem.
32:54
I'm thinking of an image of my car insurance.
32:56
Just because I spilt something on it.
32:58
I'm like, oh, the house will often fly.
33:00
It's like, what's in my bag?
33:02
No, insurance can't be be like, hi, Sophie, you again.
33:05
Oh.
33:06
I mean, you'd have to be careful even not putting things
33:08
like chewing gum, anything like that that could potentially...
33:10
Yeah, all the amount of bags.
33:12
What do you then put in it, dude?
33:14
We get bags and they'll be chewing them in them
33:16
or there's always pen marks,
33:19
pen marks, you know, water bottles that have opened
33:22
and say, if you're using your bags,
33:25
which obviously you should use your bags,
33:27
but you've just got to be really calm
33:29
that nothing goes into it with the lid off,
33:31
you know, a liner in the bag.
33:33
That's going to say, maybe it's having a bag within the bag
33:35
to put everything in.
33:36
My last question is around sick and hand versus new.
33:39
Like, is it better to buy sick and hand
33:41
because you know the value.
33:42
We're as in a shop by brand new.
33:44
There's maybe a tendency that it might depreciate
33:46
and value over time.
33:47
Like, what's better?
33:49
And obviously, you're bit by us.
33:50
Yeah, so it's so yeah, exactly.
33:52
By some bottoms or whatever.
33:54
Or a different sick and hand.
33:55
Yeah, sick and hand.
33:57
It really depends on the bag.
33:59
There's a feeling that quality is good.
34:04
It is going down slightly with a lot of the brands.
34:07
So a Chanel bag made in 2007 is probably a higher quality
34:13
to Chanel bag that's made this year.
34:16
So sometimes buying vintage is a really,
34:19
you know, it's definitely a safe way.
34:21
You're probably buying it for less than its return for in the store
34:25
unless it's one of these really high PMAs bags.
34:28
So that, you know, if you're buying them second hand,
34:32
you know, keeping their value or increasing is slightly higher.
34:36
But if you're playing the real like the MAs game,
34:39
then you know, by brand new and flip them immediately.
34:42
And that's that's the way of doing.
34:44
But if you're looking at long term,
34:46
I've definitely saved buying second hand
34:48
because you're more like to get it at a slightly more affordable rate.
34:51
The chances are the prices will stay strong.
34:54
And buying auctions just great because we get such a variety of pieces.
34:58
You're wrecking the botega clutch bag is going for this.
35:01
Yes, it's most expensive bagable.
35:03
And I worry twice.
35:04
Yeah.
35:05
It was so untrained and I'm so gutted.
35:07
Which one?
35:08
Hey, the brown one.
35:09
Yeah.
35:10
It looks kind of better than that in person.
35:12
That's it.
35:13
I'm really gutted with myself
35:14
because it's not even a bag I use every day.
35:16
You know, like it's like a special occasion bag,
35:18
but then I just don't use it.
35:19
Yeah.
35:20
Botega Vanessa retails very high on the second new market
35:22
tends to be a lot more affordable.
35:24
Good question.
35:25
At what point do you just like cut your losses?
35:27
Like a stock?
35:28
You know, that's gone down and down and down.
35:30
Out of fashion, out of fashion.
35:31
Out of fashion.
35:32
The cigarette example.
35:33
At what point do I sell the clutch?
35:34
I think you do it when you want to cut your loss.
35:36
You know, when you're no longer getting joy.
35:38
Every time.
35:39
It starts to be more of a burden.
35:41
It's taken up too much space.
35:43
Every time I said my word to her, I'm like,
35:44
oh, how much do you spend?
35:45
Do you mind me asking vaguely?
35:46
It's about £4,000.
35:48
Oh, yeah.
35:49
That was not a cheap bag.
35:50
What would we say vaguely?
35:52
That's when I had serious lifestyle creep.
35:54
Yeah.
35:55
And now I've got reverse lifestyle creep.
35:57
And I'm like, who wants to buy me?
35:59
Yeah.
36:00
Sorry, yeah.
36:01
What do you have any idea what's something about that?
36:03
It's helpful.
36:04
It would probably sell for between sort of $800 and maybe $1,400.
36:08
That's a pretty good bag.
36:10
It's better than having to keep it.
36:12
I reckon I have faith.
36:13
Yeah.
36:14
Yeah.
36:15
Yeah.
36:16
Yeah.
36:17
Yeah.
36:18
Promise me if you get an email from Vic at 11pm one night,
36:21
being like, it's me.
36:22
It's time.
36:23
Yeah, it's time.
36:24
Yeah, it's time.
36:25
She's sexy.
36:26
I'm too mad right, Steve.
36:27
And I'm depressed about my botega.
36:29
Needs a money.
36:30
Well, this has been so amazing.
36:31
Yeah.
36:32
And you've shown that.
36:33
So much.
36:34
And it's like a very interesting conversation.
36:36
Yeah.
36:37
There's a lot to it, isn't it?
36:38
Yeah.
36:39
I also must say your very approachable,
36:42
compared to what I would imagine someone that works.
36:45
It's incredible.
36:46
Like, I know that sounds, but I'd be really intimidated to go
36:49
to an auction or something.
36:51
That's another thing.
36:52
So at Bonham's, you know, you can talk to us.
36:54
We're friendly.
36:55
We want to talk to you about your collection.
36:57
We're interested in our buyers as well.
36:59
We want you to have a nice time because, you know, it's,
37:01
it's fashion.
37:02
It needs to be fun.
37:03
It needs to be, you feel good about yourself.
37:05
So we don't want people to think, oh, you know, I couldn't,
37:07
I couldn't go to auction, you know, auctions are scary.
37:09
We're definitely, we're not scary.
37:11
No, I would definitely, I'm actually, I'd love to go.
37:13
Yeah.
37:14
It looks like everyone looks awesome.
37:16
I'm so impressed.
37:17
Honestly, the website's beautiful.
37:18
I'm all about it.
37:19
But I love the approachability because it's like,
37:21
with anything that then be sting, it's,
37:23
it's always this like exclusive club.
37:25
Yeah.
37:26
And so it's nice to have someone like yourself that's like,
37:29
expanding the basics, trying to demystify it,
37:31
making it more open for everyone and being, you know,
37:34
very accessible.
37:35
Thank you.
37:36
Oh, could I have one last question?
37:37
Yeah.
37:38
If we were, say there's someone out there that doesn't want to buy
37:42
an image or a Chanel.
37:44
But they also do want to get an investment piece.
37:48
Are there any ways of spotting up and coming investment brands?
37:52
Or is it one of those things that they just have to say
37:54
in the test of time?
37:55
Yeah.
37:56
They have to sound the test of time.
37:57
It's like buying Microsoft.
37:59
You know, the slow and steady wins the race.
38:02
Rather than buying the hot, we're trying to figure out
38:05
what's the next hot stock.
38:06
You know, just the one that bought the brown potato.
38:10
I know.
38:11
Through what I say, not as I do.
38:13
Yeah.
38:14
Thank you so much for coming in.
38:15
Oh, I can't think of it.
38:16
Thank you.
38:17
Yeah.
38:18
Thank you so much for listening to Raising the Curve.
38:20
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38:22
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38:43
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38:49
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